CNN's Alisyn Camerota and the Ramones 'Rocket to Russia' (1977)

We have a wide-ranging conversation with CNN anchor Alisyn Camerota about the Ramones, her intimate history with punk rock, her career in news, Prince (!) and especially her must-read memoir, Combat Love.
 
The Ramones are undoubtedly one of the most important punk bands of all-time and their career remains a crucial chapter in the history of American music. The band's third studio album, 1977's Rocket to Russia, was not the Ramones' biggest commercial success, but it did include several iconic Ramones tracks like "Rockaway Beach," "Cretin Hop" and "Sheena Is a Punk Rocker." Moreover, it was a crucial album in the life of a young Alisyn Camerota! 
 
After living with Rocket to Russia and Alisyn’s memoir, are Andrew and Diamond hoppin’ down to Rockaway Beach … or will they have to break news to their guest that they are still square as ever?

Listen to find out! Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode!
 
Get Combat Love wherever you get books!

Connect with At First Listen via Instagram at @AtFirstListenPodcast.

(Episode 7.)

Episode Transcript

(00:15):
Hey guys, I'm Diamond and I'mAndrew, and this is another episode of
the at First Listen podcast. Itfeels like it's been forever since we did
want to be I know, theweather is getting nicer. I see people
with shorts on, and I'm like, also, you can tell the time
of the day that people leave theirmonth because there are people with shorts on,

(00:36):
and then there are people with hoodieson, and I'm like, I'm
definitely a hoodie person. No matterwhat the degrees are outside, like the
temperature, I do not care likeI need a hoodie, I need a
long sleeve. I don't know why. I get cold easily. So when
you get on like subways and givein some buildings it's really cold, I
can't do. My issue is alwayswhat is the temperature going to be outside?

(00:57):
And then what is it going tobe like in this building? Yes,
in this building, it's usually theworst temperature it could possibly be,
whether it's the winter and it's toohot in here, yes, or the
summertime and it's freezing cold. It'sbeen cold all year round in here.
Yeah. We're close to the parkthough, that's the only good part.

(01:18):
But not right now because allergy season, you know, so it's like,
give me a give me about amonth. So I just got back from
Italy. Oh, I can't waitto hear about it. Something there I
am very allergic to. Really,Yeah, day like three, I was
like, oh, no, it'shappening. And then like the last like

(01:40):
ten days of the trip, noblowing my nose. I'm sneezing all the
time. Something in the air.I won't go back in April if I
can help. Oh, but thepictures looked cool, a beautiful country.
Also super warm, unseasonably warm.Really the locals said, I need to
I need I can't wait to hearmore about this. But I'm very excited

(02:02):
for today, tomorrow, whenever thiscomes out because one of my favorites from
my favorite channel besides Brava, yourfavorite show, The News, I Love
a little CNN, Alison Camarado iscoming in. Are you excited? I
am excited. I think this isgoing to be one of the more fun

(02:23):
episodes because this is an episode whereboth you and I are going to be
challenged in terms of our taste.I mean kind of the point of the
show is that we enjoy music thatwe haven't heard before. Yeah, but
also I'm a little curious to see, like if it gets messy. Oh

(02:45):
no, I'm nervous. So Allisonis promoting her new book, her memoir
Combat Love and Alison. Music hasbeen a huge part of her life.
Apparently she's a huge punk right ohno, and was kind of part of
the punk rock scene in New Jerseywhere she grew up in New York City

(03:08):
back in like the late seventies earlyeighties. This was a big part of
her younger years and so that's somethingthat this book kind of revolves around.
And therefore, for her appearance onAt First Listen, she selected the Ramones
nineteen seventy seven album Rocket to Russiafor us to listen to. Yeah,

(03:30):
so let's start with you, Diamond, What do you know about the Ramones?
What do you know about punk rock? This is going to be a
very short situation for me because Iknow nothing about the Ramones. I know
that I remember I think a moviethat I watched growing up. I think
it was Freaky Friday. Lindsay Lohanwear Ramone shirt one of those shows,

(03:52):
and you know she's cool. Yes, So I'm hoping that I'll like the
song the album so much that Icould get a Ramone shirt just like whoever
that was in that show and Iwatched a long time ago and feel cool
because that's literally all sh the Ramones. I will give them this. They

(04:12):
have one of the more iconic logos, looks great on a T shirt.
And this album that Alison picked,Rocket to Russia, has one of the
more iconic punk rock album covers.Okay, it's just the band's like standing
next to a brick wall, whichis like cliche at this point, but
it is one of the more iconicimages of this type of music. So

(04:33):
do you know any Ramone songs orare you a fan? Give me a
the low down, Andrew, Somy I know plenty of Ramone's songs because
like I know the ones that havemade it to the radio. Basic Okay,
And I'm not really a punk rockfan. And it's gonna be interesting

(04:56):
to talk to Alison about her experiencein New Jersey. I also grew up
in New Jersey, and I foundthat punk rock was like kind of ubiquitous
in New Jersey in the suburbs.You know, when I was in high
school, like all my friends werein punk bands or starting punk bands.
Would go to punk shows, andI was like into sort of classic rock

(05:18):
and that kind of led me tolike right to heavy metal, which there
is an era in heavy metal prelike the punk explosion of like the late
seventies of kind of probably after thisRamon's album that we're going to listen to,

(05:38):
where punk and heavy metal were sortof at odds, where the heavy
metal people like really prided themselves onmusicianship. And the thing that I have
grown to appreciate I would say aboutpunk rock is there's this idea of the
democratization of music, is that musicis for everyone, regardless of your skill

(06:03):
level. You should be able tomake what you make what you want to
make, and you should be ableto express yourself. And I think punk
really took hold in actually cities inthe mid seventies, in communities that were
poorer, where people didn't really haveaccess to musical instruments, musical education.

(06:29):
I don't really know what the backstoryis with the Ramone specifically. Most of
my knowledge of punk is actually forhow it affected the scene in London,
and there were people that will arguethat punk rock began in London in I
think the year is like nineteen seventyeight. So after this album and it

(06:51):
ended in San Francisco in nineteen seventynine. Oh so people don't make punk
rock music anymore. That is,it's a little a bit of a dramatic
way to say, like punk startedand ended with a band called the sex
Pistols. Okay, I've heard ofthe sex Pistol. So there was a
mini series on Hulu last year aboutthe sex Pistols. Okay, maybe I

(07:15):
should go watch. It's like asix episode. It's actually really fun.
It's not historically accurate almost at all, but it's fun and it does celebrate
the music and kind of it isa good window until like the ethos of
the working class punk rockers in theUK. So the punk that I kind

(07:39):
of appreciate is generally punk rock fromoverseas because it's more political in nature,
and I don't think of the Ramonesas a very political band. This album
title Rocket to Russia, you know, nineteen seventy seven, middle of the
Cold War. I don't know ifthis is going to be a political record.

(08:03):
Again, this is like kind ofa blind spot for me. I
know that in the UK they werelike really challenging, like the pop music
of the day, the prog rockand heavy metal that was just like getting
bigger and grander and more frilly andjust more and more and more. And

(08:24):
the idea for the punk rockers waslike, we don't need all that shit.
We need just like a three chordsong and just the truth, and
that's what it's going to be about. And whether we're good at our instruments
or not does not matter. Ohno, I'm nervous. So when we're
doing the White Stripes episode, isanother tie in, like the idea of

(08:46):
like Meg White not being that goodat the drums or maybe depending on what
do you think of Jack White asa singer, like him not being a
good like that doesn't matter, it'sjust what is the message of the song?
And are people listening? You know? Okay, very nervous because if

(09:09):
I don't like this, how doI tell our guests that I fucking hate
this? Well? You know what, Alison is a journalist. Yes,
she's a professional. I'm sure she'sbeen in these situations before, not these
situations, but I'm sure she's I'msure she can navigate. It would be
great if we both hated it.Yeah, and oh, oh, Andrew

(09:31):
Okay, I'm nervous. I don'teven know what else to I think I'm
gonna listen to this as soon aswe turn the MIC's off, so that
I can make my mind up soonerrather than later. Thing. The nice
thing is the album is like thirtyone minutes long, so we can spin
it. We can spend it justlike five times today and still have you
know, and all these work.They won't thirty minutes altogether. Yeah.

(09:58):
How many tracks are there? Fourteen? Yeah, punk songs famously not very
long. Oh, okay, teachme something new, Andrew, you're getting
it pop in the Ramone songs thatI know are the ones that made it
to radio and are, in myexperience kind of sillier like poppy ones.
Okay, any from this album thatyou see at first look at the track

(10:20):
list. A couple of weeks ago, when we were setting up the interview,
I was like, I don't recognizeone song, but no, Actually,
Rockaway Beach is for sure like ahit that you will hear on the
radio occasionally. There's a couple othersthat she knows a punk rocker. I'm
sure I've heard that. We're ahappy family. I think i've heard that

(10:41):
as well. I want to bewell, there's a bunch that I'm not
so sure. I do think thatafter a listen I will I will recognize
a few of them. I don'tknow if I'm gonna like it. I
know I actually want you to notto like it and you to like it,

(11:01):
yeah, so that you can doso. I was looking back in
our email thread with Allison's publicist SeanSo, he wrote that this album is
one of the most important of Allison'syouth, and he also wrote that it
has a great mix of classic hits, deep cuts, and darker stuff,

(11:24):
and then he wrote quote and songsyou think could be the Beach Boys.
So I'm Sean. And he alsowrote in another message that he wanted to
pick something that would make Diamond goquote, oh yeah, I know this
one. Oh God. And Ithink he's maybe overestimating you, because Sean,

(11:46):
I don't know. I don't know, but maybe this will turn me
into a punk rocker. What doyou think? What do I think?
That's a good question. Hmmm.Knowing very little about the album, uh,
because Rockaway Beach is on there,and I actually do know what that
song is. I think that youwill kind of like it. Okay,

(12:09):
will I get a beat? Alittle one two step going a beat?
No, Andrew, No, no, no. The fact that you have
to think about this, We needto rethink this whole situation. Technically,
there will be a beat. Ohgod, people do dance to punk?
There is that? Is there arhythm involved? Andrew again, on a
technical level, yes, there's rhythminvolved. I don't it is technically music.

(12:33):
Oh god. Okay, any lastwords, because I don't know this.
This could be a huge train wreck. You might have the first walk
out, the first time we hearda guest's feelings. Yeah, well,
hopefully we don't have to do that. Allison seems like she's gonna be fun.

(12:54):
Yes, and talking about this albumand where it falls into the into
her life is gonna be We'll lether talk, all right, and well,
when we come back, we willbe familiar with Rocket to Russia.
We will know all about their moons, we will know all about Allison's book

(13:16):
Combat Love, and my day willbe made because I'll be with one of
my favorite people from one of myfavorite channels, and we'll be back with
Alison Camerata on at First Listen podcast. Welcome back to a first listen with

(13:41):
Andrew and Diamond. I'm Andrew andI'm Diamond, and you're here with our
guests, who I'm super excited about. I can't even thank you, and
I think we should just let youintroduce yourself, you know. Yeah,
I'm used to that. Yeah.In three, I'm Alison Camarata from CNN.

(14:05):
I love it. I love it. I don't know. I was
in the newsroom just now. Yeah, in the situation room. Gosh.
I don't know if you guys know, but I'm obsessed because CNN is on
my TV all day long. Doyour listeners know that you're a huge news
sound No? Actually, have Iever said? I don't. I don't
think it was a surprise to mewhen I would walk into your studio and

(14:28):
see the news on constantly, literally, and it's a back and forth between
CNN and Bravo. And I knowit's like for some people that's like,
how do you mix the two ofthem together? I don't know. It
just works for me, not,I understand. I totally understand formed.
Yes, and that really covers thegamut of anything you would ever need to
know. I agree with you.I have to tell you. The book

(14:48):
amazing thank you. I think Andrewand I both agree on it. We
both were talking about it earlier,like I don't know what it is.
I just feel like I know youand I already feel like it was like,
Yeah, there was something that youtalked about early on in the book
that I completely identified with. Yousaid that, like, growing up,
you would feel as if like cameraswere on you, and you would plan

(15:09):
to it. Yes, I didthe same thing. That's interesting, Diamond,
because now that I've done this booktour, I say that on some
of the events that I go toand people look at me completely blankly,
and so they've never heard this before. And I thought everybody had a camera
following them around. You know what, It's just it's just you and me.
We get it. Honestly. Somebodywill say something and I'm like,

(15:30):
it'll just be the two of ushere, and I'm like, did anybody
catch that? That's right? Areyou getting this? Yes, that's exactly
right? Are you rolling? Yeah? That's interesting. That tells me something
about you, because not that's noteverybody has that, which I didn't know
until I started on this book toura month ago. Only people like you
and I have Gemini oh, mutifulmutable views on gem specific what are my

(16:00):
mom is listening? So I won'tgo into the is she a Gemini mom?
Is a Gemini? Are you aJune? I'm on the cusp?
So I'm June twenty first, soI literally am on the cusp. A
lot of people think I'm a cancer. But I was born in Gemini.
So the whatever the planetary alignment was, the sun didn't rise until a certain
hour on June twenty first, SoI was born in Gemini. But very
cuspy. Wow, we'll have alot more to talk about about this,

(16:23):
So let's let's just I don't knowif we mentioned in the intro Allison's book.
So we're doing like a triple sortof interview conversation here. We're talking
to you about just being an interestingperson. But you also have your book,
which I want to pronounce is CombatLove. Yeah, maybe it's combat
love. No, no, it'scombat love. But I take your point

(16:48):
that it has different meanings and thatyou can see it as combating the love.
Okay, So a big, amajor thread in the book is your
relationship to music. And you're herewearing a Room one T shirt, which
Diamond mentioned in our intro. It'sa very cool design. Yeah, only
a few days ago, I literally, I know we talked about how great

(17:10):
it looks on a shirt and howiconic it is, and I said that
after listening to this album, hopefullyI'll be able to buy a shirt and
like, people won't talk crap aboutme. If you're just wearing a shirt
and not knowing the band, you'llbe legit for sure. Okay. Yeah's
trying to make sure you're not aposer. Listen Rocket to Russia. Yeah,
tell people, oh yeah, what'syour favorite song. I'm still gonna

(17:30):
say Rocket to Russia. The're gonnalookt me crazy because that is the album,
not the song, but you knowwhat will know and people who don't
they'll be like, okay, butinside, okay, got it. Yeah,
totally for the cameras following, youcan I be honest about the album
you made me listen to? Uh? I made you listen to Rocket to

(17:51):
Russia. Her mom's yes, goahead. I feel like we can be
like we're here, we are mutables. All that I wasn't into it meant
first? Is that right? She'sbeen pretty positive about everything. Yes,
okay, go ahead. I thinkthat this may be the genre that just
I don't get, but it's it'sweird because, like I was telling Andrew

(18:11):
earlier, one of the songs,Rockaway Beach, I knew it. I
can't figure out where I knew itfrom. Have you ever been to Rockaway
Beach? I imagine that if youare at Rockaway Beach in the summertime,
somewhere this is playing. I hopeso. I hope it's just the sounds

(18:32):
where they're driving buying a car andthey're stories or stores playing. I heard
so yeah, But okay, didyou like the song? I feel like
it was a nostalgia like we talkedabout earlier, Like I knew it,
so it was like a level,a level of comfort, you know,
lock it love, liked it,liked that one, and there was We're
family. I can't remember I toldAndrew this. I couldn't remember if I

(18:56):
liked it or if I didn't likeit at all, But the fact that
I'm remembering it may no. Ithink you didn't that Daddy likes. We're
sitting here in Queens eating refried means, reading all the magazines, gulping down
thorizines. I think you're gonna notlike that. One. It was my
guest, but my fave surfing bird, right because that's and yeah, yeah,

(19:19):
but but here, let me saythis to you about your apology for
not liking it and you're incredible feelingsof shame which you are experiencing. It's
not like you have to like allmusic. But this is an important part
of your music education, I wouldsay. So I prescribed this for you
because I feel like this is kindof like having an Encyclopedia Britannica in your

(19:42):
house, Like this is an importantalbum and the Ramones are certainly important as
a building block of music. Soyou just need to know about them.
You don't need to love them,but you need to know about them because
this was I would say, aseminal bit of music that so many other
bands drew from then. And thefact that the Ramones have had staying power

(20:04):
for forty years tells you something.So you know, I, for instance,
I don't love jazz. I'm like, where the lyrics? Give me
the lyrics? People, I know, I'm not going to listen to an
instrumental What am I doing here?Yeah? Right, I've got a life
to live and so but I acceptthat jazz is an important part of the
American you know, pantheon of music, and the Romones too, So you

(20:27):
just need to be educated in them. I don't need you to love them.
Okay, fine, I love thatexplanation of it. I my relationship
with punk is weird because I amI'm actually far more on the metal side
of the spectrum. So there's there's, I guess, an era where punk
and metal were at odds, wherepunk was sort of rebelling against this like

(20:49):
idea that you had to be avirtuoso. And on the other hand,
I love that sentiment that music isfor everybody. But then there was like
the political nature of some punk bandslike the Sex Pistols that I found very
timeless. The Ramones I never quiteunderstood where they fit in to all of

(21:12):
that, because they're not a politicalband as far as I could tell.
And then listening to this album Rocketsto Rushi, Okay, we're in the
middle of the Cold War. Maybethere's going to be something on here that's
going to be a reference even likeback in the USSR was for the for
the Beatles, where it was likesort of like what are they really talking

(21:33):
about? But four times through thealbum, I couldn't really detect anything,
so I am a little confused.Almost Okay, thank goodness, I'm here
you go. Yeahah, all right, well a couple things. I think
the Ramones got more political as theymatured, so I don't think that this
is their political song. But Joeywrote some songs or the Ramones performed some

(21:56):
songs I assumed Joy wrote them thatwere like Bonzo Goes a bit about Reagan
and the KKK Took My Baby Away, which was actually about a love triangle
that he was in, but youtake the political point, and so about
like conservative. It was basically againstconservative. Yeah, one of his bandmates
Johnny. So I don't think thatthis album was anything having to do with

(22:19):
politics. I don't know why theycall it Rocket to Russia, to tell
you the truth, we can lookthat up. But the reason that I
think it's an important album is notbecause of its political commentary, but because
of its social commentary. There isa lot of social commentary in this album.
So it also covers the I mean, if I can use the term
ouvra with the remote and they're rollingover in their graves right now, But

(22:41):
like it does cover everything from thesurf punk and the upbeat you know,
Rockaway Beach two, We're a happyfamily, and some of the other ones,
like I don't care. There's onewhy is it always this way?
Last time I saw her alive,she was waving bye bye, she was
contemplating suicide. Now she's lying ina puddle of formaldehyde. Like there's a

(23:03):
lot of kind of the despair andthe poverty of their neighborhood and them growing
up is captured in these songs.So this album in particular shows the kind
of upbeat maybe things are going toget better if we go to Rockaway Beach
for a beach day, and thedrugs and poverty that their neighborhood or their

(23:23):
lives have been steeped at a hugefamily dysfunction, We're a happy family,
And so I think that it's both. So I think that it's I do
think you should see the social commentaryrather than political comedy. Yeah, so
I hear the point about a socialcommentary, and that's really interesting. I
think another point of dissonance for mewith Thermones was the sort of tough guy

(23:48):
aesthetic and then a song like CretanHop or Blitzkrieg Bop or She is a
punk rocker which are just like funlike basically pop songs. They're the Beach
Boys. Yeah, the Ramones canveer into the Beach Boys really easily.
But they liked the Beach Boys.I mean, in other words, when
you say they're tough guy aesthetic,they're just wearing ripped jeans and leather jackets

(24:14):
because that again was there from theirneighborhood. I don't, I didn't.
I didn't get the impression that theywere wearing costumes like they didn't seem to
be posers. They were just wearingtheir jeans really were ripped, you know
what I mean. And so Ithink that they were influenced by the Beach
Boys. And it's funny when youlisten to Shina is a punk rocker and
creating hot because it is so upbeatand danceable. It's poppin' fresh, you

(24:36):
know, like that Beach Boys sound, but with a dark underbelly. Yeah.
So I've known so many punk kids, especially punk kids from New Jersey
in my life, and I wasalways suspicious of their that like all punk
kids like the Beach Boys, andI never really understood the connection. Maybe
it's a Ramones sort of like athrough line, Well, I would definitely

(25:00):
put the Ramones on that continuum.So if you start with the Beach Boys,
the Ramones are definitely on that continuumsomewhere. But maybe we all just
like the Beach Boys because the BeachBoys are great. I mean, maybe
there's just no, you don't haveto overthink it. Was there something about
the Beach Boys being Americans not supposedto like all punks being into the Beatles.
Uh No, I mean I didn'tthink there were any rules necessarily of

(25:22):
punk rock. One of the thingsthat I've always found is that a lot
of bands loved Kiss, and Iloved Kiss. Kiss was another to me,
like foundational, probably something that theRamones were fucking sick of. Probably
yeah, like they I'm sure thatthey wore all the pyrotechnics and all of
that stuff. However that those songI mean when you listen to Kiss,
also, they're melodic, kind ofdanceable songs at the end of the day.

(25:48):
So I think the Beach Boys andKiss are foundational for all future bands
to me. But when you sayyou love metal, like who, like
who were your favorites? Well,Metallica was definitely a formative band. Black
Sabbath which is a decade previous,Deep Purple Slayer for sure, Pantera,

(26:11):
which I just saw. Do youlike this? No? Not Black Sabbath?
No, she liked led Zeppelin too. I did. And it was
a toss up that episode whether wewould listen to led Zeppelin or Paranoid by
Black Sabbath. And what's the problem? Just not melodica enough. It's a

(26:32):
lot, you know, it's alot going on. It's a lot going
on. I'm a simple girl,you know what I mean. Give me
Beyonce all day, any day andI'll be happy, like you know,
just I can't. I can't.I complained about the music, the music
today, but then Andrew's like,listen to this, and I'm like a
hard no, you know, allright? So you didn't bond with it?

(26:53):
And again I don't need you tobond with Rocket Russia. I just
need you to appreciate its place inthe annals of you know, history.
I do, okay, And soyou you're what's your issue with with it?
Oh? It confused you? Iwas. I think I was looking
for some greater political statement that wouldhave explained maybe why the Ramones were such

(27:17):
a such an important band with yourgeneration. Yeah, I think that,
And specifically, I think there's likea specific age group that really even if
it wasn't that age that you werewhen you first heard them, it's like
even people in that age group todaywhen they hear the Ramones and are just
like yes, yeah, And that'show I feel. I mean when I

(27:38):
hear I mean, particularly the upbeatsongs, you know, the Rockaway Beach,
like I am instantly transported to.It's a hot July, human July
day. I'm in the backseat ofa car. There's vinyl seats, my
legs are stuck to them because I'mjust in a bathing suit. We're heading
to the beach, and it's justcrank it up, you know, there's

(27:59):
no air conditioning, windows are down, and we're headed to the beach.
And so I have such a positive, visceral connotation with that music. But
when I first heard them when Iwas in eighth grade, and like all
of like the older kids liked them. So we eighth graders liked them because
we knew that they were cool.They just sort of personified cool. And
I think it's just what we're talkingabout that there was kind of they were
kind of the the Gateway. Wasthere more danceable, melodic popin' songs.

(28:29):
So it wasn't like the first timeI heard We're a Happy Family, I
was like, oh, this isa band for me, you know,
but I think you get on drugs. It's all on drugs. There's you
know, somebody selling sex somebody,and that the whole works, you know.
But I think that it was thatthat they kind of combine a teeny
bopper quality. There's a bit ofinnocence to the dark, the really dark.

(28:52):
They were like doop kids. Yes, that were from the wrong generation.
Absolutely, I agree with that.There's a whole duop theme. I
mean motif through that. They musthave liked that that like do you want
to dance? You know, there'retheir song do you want to Dance?
It's It might as well be thedrifters like it's And so I think that
they're kind of the greasers like init, from a different generation, if

(29:15):
you if you didn't call them punks. Yeah, And I guess the reason
they're so important to my generation isthat they were the first. They are,
you know, a pro the prototypicalband, like they were the first.
They were before the sex pistols.They were before all of these other
bands that you would Richard Hell,yeah, I mean Richard Hell was probably
a contemporary, but they were.They beat him to it. I mean,

(29:37):
and Green Day wouldn't exist, youknow, without the Romones, maybe
pop punk wouldn't exist, right,So I think that that's part of why
they get so much play and somuch affection from you. Alluded to something
that is also a good point asfar as the Ramones place in music history,
which is that they changed as theygot older. A lot of punk

(29:59):
bands didn't get older, like theSex Pistols had one album that was it
Shrapnel, who we can talk aboutin a little bit. I didn't quite
get to their conclusion of their storyin the book, but it doesn't seem
like they were around for that long. They were around longer than you'd think,
and they did mature and they definitelyhad different iterations. But I think

(30:21):
that it's fair to say that theyall had their true musical success after trapmol
So. I mean, they wereteenagers in Tramma, you know, they

(30:41):
were like eighteen, nineteen and twenty, and for what they did with no
like when I hear now bands thatare boy bands or whatever you want to
call it. They're heavily produced,they have all of this money behind them,
they have a studio, they havethese you know, well known marketers,
and like Shrapnel is just coming outof the garage and jumping in a
van and go and play at Seabe's. The first time you use the first

(31:03):
time you used the term garage bandin the book, I read it as
garbage bands, and I was like, did she just call them a garbage
I'm not familiar with it. Andthen I went back and I just read
it wrong. Yeah, I mean, but that was also a phenomenon of
the seventies, a garage band,you know. And now I don't know,

(31:23):
are there still garage bands? Iguess so, I mean, I
don't people have garages and yeah,there must still be garage bands. You're
right? Yeah? Yeah? DidI say this at while the mics were
rolling? Yeah, we will.I wanted your mother to be here with
us right now. I should haveinvited her. She would love this.
My mother is so enjoying being withme on the book tour. She really,

(31:47):
really really didn't want the book tocome out. Okay, she was
very opposed to the book coming outbecause it does well. Anyone who doesn't
make it all the way through thebook is going to have an opinion about
for sure, Yes, for sure. So my mother there is, i
would say, more than redeemed bythe end, and certainly has been redeemed
in my life for any of herfailings, and all of our parents have
failings, God knows, but forany of my mother's perceived failings, and

(32:09):
she perceives that she had many,she's more than made up for it.
And she's an incredibly huge champion ofmine and dedicated grandmother and a wonderful companion
of mine. And so she reallyreally did not want the book to come
out. She didn't want our dirtylaundry aired. She didn't want people to
know her failings of parenting. Andnow that the book is out, she's

(32:31):
like, when's our next event?You know, where are we going this
weekend? To what book talk is? It's got to be a little bit
cathartic to have gone through all ofthis with just one other person and now
she finally gets to talk about,which maybe would have been if maybe she
felt like you were peers, likeyou were another like a friend of hers

(32:53):
and closer in age, she wouldhave felt more comfortable talking to just one
other person about it, but nowshe can talk to everybody about Yes,
but she is from the so calledsilent generation, so she was born in
nineteen forty. She doesn't like talkingabout this. I like talking about it
because I'm you know, of thisera where we're all much more open and
we peel back the curtain and we'remuch more confessional and all of that stuff.

(33:15):
But that's not she's never kind offully adapted to this new world,
as you can imagine. I'm sureyour own parents and grandparents don't love that
stuff. Is like, no,right, exactly, it's it's it's purely
generational. So she would rather Inot tell family secrets, and there are
family secrets in the book, andshe would rather I not talk about some

(33:36):
of our hardest times. But shedidn't really have a choice. You know,
I wanted to do this and Ithought it would be healing, and
I was right. It has beenfor us, and it has been nice
to see each other as adult women. Now does your relationship with her and
everything that you've been through. Wetalked about this a little bit earlier as
well. We got it popping beforewe do love just to see if I

(33:59):
am tea. Yes, well,we covered a lot of ground, but
how has that affected your parenting?So everybody, I think expects me to
say, oh, I would neverlet my kids be alone on a burned
out Queen street in the middle oftwo am, with no money and no
ay home. O contraer. Iwish that my kids had more freedom.

(34:22):
I really do. I'm not afan of this helicopter parenting era. I
wish that they had not as muchfreedom as I had because with freedom came
a lot of brushes with danger andI could have used more supervision and you
know, guardrails for sure. ButI wish my kids just had a little

(34:43):
bit more of the free range naturethat I had, because it is character
building to have to find your ownway and figure out how you're going to
pay for it, and figure outwhen you're in a pickle, how you're
going to get out of it andhow you're going to get home. And
then just all the live music.I mean, if we can work it
back to all of our music love, the amount of live music that I

(35:06):
saw as a teenager and the showsthat I could go to, it's so
much more than they have, andI wish that they had more of a
taste of that. So I tryto give them as much freedom as I
can in this crazy bubble wrapped world. Oh my god, do you have
their locations? Of course? Ohno, I know. I'm not proud
of it. I'm not proud ofit. But it's like if the epic,

(35:29):
I mean, it's a huge fightbetween my mom and I. She's
like, I think I need yourlocation. I'm like, I'm thirty girl,
you know, but I get it. But I'm also like, just,
I mean, the problem is thetechnology exists, and so it's like
to not do it. You know, they're just yeah, but am I
tracking them constantly? No? Andif they don't call me for four days,

(35:49):
I'm not like, hey, guys, what's up? Why haven't you
called? I let them live theirlife. I'm trying to just be hands
off and let them live their life. But it is hard. I did
like one of the in the bookyou mentioned that you literally wore your house
key around your neck. I'm allkid, I am a Lashki kid definition
for sure. Yeah. I trulywas a Latchi kid. And then people

(36:09):
were at school would be like,what's that and point at my chest.
I was like, my key aren'tyou guys wearing what? And I was
the only kid who wore it aroundmy neck like a necklace, but other
people must have because there is theterm latch key kid, all right for
sure. Yeah, my grandmother instilledthe fear of God in me early on
with that key situation. If youlose the key, we have to get

(36:30):
all new locks in this house.So you better not dat lose that key.
So I to this day don't likecarrying keys because I'm like, if
I lose it, then I haveto go through a whole bunch of other
things. So I mean, justto let all the listeners know, do
you just leave your house on Longe? No? No, no, your
your grandmother should have said, ifyou lose the key, we have to
move. We're gonna have to moveout of this house. She should have.

(36:50):
Well, I guess it worked howshe'd said, you lose the key
moving to Queens. Oh God,speaking of Queens, how did you not
know that you were like all theway in Queens? Okay, I listened
to Brooklyn. Listen to Brooklyn.Let me explain something. I was fifteen,
number one, number two. Sothere was an episode in the book
for anybody who hasn't read it yet. Where I'm stranded on a street corner

(37:13):
outside of a club at two inthe morning after seeing shrapnel, and I
was a passenger on the ride oflife. Basically, I mean, part
of what I realized in rewriting thisbook is that I didn't have a lot
of I had a lot of ambition, but I didn't have a lot of
agency back then because I didn't haveany money, i'dn't have a license.

(37:34):
I didn't really know where I wasgoing, so I was always along for
the ride. So I was apassenger, and all I knew was that
Shratnell was playing in New York,so I thought we were probably going to
see GB's or someplace like that,which is in Manhattan or was in the
Lower East Side, and then wewere in a whole new place. But
that wouldn't have helped anyway, becausemy ride passed out and I couldn't get
a bright house stranded. It's likethinking to myself, how were you said?

(37:58):
Fifteen was fifteen fifteen? If Iwould have crossed state lines, I
probably would have put myself on punishmentbecause I was so scared of everything.
You would have grounded yourself, Yes, like my parents would wouldn't have had
to know anything. I just wouldhave locked myself in the room for like
a like, no, I don'tneed to come out. I've seen everything
I need to see in the world. Crossing state lines, I'm like,

(38:20):
what's going on? I needed tohave been raised in the seventies and eighties,
because you guys were living a completelydifferent life. We were as teenagers.
We were living a totally different life. I mean we were free range
to the hilt, and you know, we had to cross state lines because
Shratnell was playing in New York,so I had to go. What was
I going to do? I mean, oh my god. Do you think
that that has forced you to livealmost a fearless life. No, it's

(38:44):
not that I have a fearless life, but I do think that it planted
the seeds for my journalism career.I do think that some of that early
risk taking and early self sufficiency didallow me to take risks at which you
do have to do as a journalist. I have gone into dangerous situation as
a journalist. For five years.I was a crime reporter at America's Most
Wanted and so going into prisons,going into really dicey, like you know,

(39:08):
trailer park homes. Like trailer parks, I should say where the cops
had told us not to go becausethere were non you know, armed criminals
hiding out there. I just dofeel like it did give me a thicker
skin. One of the jokes thatI've made since writing the book is nobody
knows how to do a steak outbetter than me, because as a journalist

(39:31):
sometimes you have to stake out unwillinginterview subjects like politicians who don't want to
talk to you, or a criminalwho's hiding. And I can hide in
the footwell of a car all daylong, all day long, I can
hide for that steak out. Ican eat a bag of chips all day
long, and then I pop outwhen the criminal comes out. And so
I do think that some of thatwas because of those, you know,

(39:53):
rides to across state lines. Youwrite about how you had, or more
your mom had a li serious lackof like practical everyday knowledge. There's the
episode about maybe should learn to puteye drops in your own eyes correct,
So you didn't have a lot ofthat knowledge from your parents, but you

(40:15):
did have the experience of figuring itout when you get there. Yeah,
I mean I can see how thatwould be a huge attribute. Yeah,
I think it made me more resourceful. I did have to be resourceful,
But like, would it have helpedto know how to catch a ball?
Sure? Yeah, in life itwould have been really helpful to know how
to kick catch or like hit aball with the bat, which they forgot

(40:38):
to teach me. Yeah, youknow, there were definitely some lapses in
my childhood education. Yes, butI do think that having to find your
own way in your own way home, I mean metaphorically speaking and literally,
there is value in that. Doyou think you displayed your vocabulary more when

(40:59):
you were like eight or nine yearsyears old or yes? No, oh
well I had the same vocabulary whenI was eight, which is strange.
And there's a lot of funny momentsearly in the book where the sentences coming
out of a nine year old child'smouth just don't make any sense, and
you you kind of explain how adultswould like look at you sideways and children

(41:21):
and children the adults, but thekids. The children were like, why
do you use big words? Whydon't you just talk normal? I was
like, well, that's not propergrammar, right there? You know,
And so I think it's because Iwas an only child up to highly educated,
intellectual parents who talked to me asan adult my whole life, and

(41:42):
I appreciated that there was no babytalk in my house. They conferred with
me, they spoke to me asan adult, and so I was this
kind of mini adult from the timeI was really young, and I heard
that a psychic about talking normal.My mom was a college professor, so
I had some of that, butI don't think I ever used the word
mollified. I did, yes,and as you're you're pointing out a particularly

(42:09):
memorable scene where I did drop mollifyinto the sentence yes. How aware were
your own children of some of theseepisodes from your life before the book?
So they don't know the details.They know in broad brushstrokes that my life
as a teenager, that I wasunparented or semi parented. They know that

(42:30):
a lot of mine. They evenlike conceptualize that that grandma was like not
on top of I don't think so, yeah, they only know this personification
of my mom, which is asyou know, what she looks like now
and her gentleness now you know,and it's even I mean, my mother

(42:51):
was very, very beautiful. She'sstill beautiful, but she was very stunning.
And they even when they see pictures, they're they're kind of excited that
that's no any but they don't that'snot a woman that they recognize, you
know. So, yeah, mykids don't know the details of these some
of these stories. They know broadlythat I had friends, a lot of

(43:15):
friends who struggled with drugs and alcohol, and they know that I witnessed some
of that. They know broadly thatI had important love romantic relationships as a
teenager in my twenties, and that'sabout it. And I have I tried
to for a while like brace them, and they, you know, weren't

(43:38):
down to have these conversations at thetime. And now that the book has
come out, they're teenagers themselves,and it's like of such little relevance to
them now, you know. Nowthey're my daughters, are freshmen in college,
and they're having their own adventures.So they're not that consumed with mom's
adventures anymore. Do they share freelyof their adventures at least? Is yes

(44:01):
perceived as I think. So.I do think that one of the things
from my childhood and that I've triedto capture with my kids. I do
think we all have open communication andthat I could tell my mother anything.
I stopped at some point telling herstuff because our lives were sort of going
in different directions and I was toobusy surviving to share some of this stuff

(44:27):
with her that I thought would scareher. But I knew I could tell
her I would never be ground,that I wouldn't be in trouble, she
wouldn't be judgmental. And I've triedto carry that on with my kids and
they have shared definitely some of theirfears, some of their anxiety, some
of their experiences about, you know, some dicey subjects, and I'm really
grateful for that open communication. Soheavy metal, punk, ron hardcore,

(45:00):
these are sort of fringe, undergroundand the type styles of music that live
in a lot of the same rooms, like almost literally. Did you ever
feel that you needed to kind ofkeep that part of your life experience a
secret, maybe because of your careeror you need to keep it close.

(45:22):
No, it was the opposite.I never felt like I needed to keep
it secret. I felt that peoplewere so shocked when I would no punk
rock songs or when I would be. There was a punk rock exhibit that
was opening at a museum, andI was at CNN, like, guys,
who wants to go out of thepunk exhibit with me? You know?
And like people find it funny becauseI look like this, you know,

(45:43):
And I've always looked like this,Like in high school, I had
this exact same hair, and Iwas this same height, and I was
wearing this same outfit that you guyssee me in right now. So I've
always I never had a mohawk,I never had a pierced cheek or you
know whatever. So it it.I get that it's incongruous what I look

(46:06):
like but liking punk, but I'mnot. I don't know. I was
never masquerading as a punk rocker.And people just think it's funny. They
are amused that I have this punkpast. But I was never trying to
hide it. I'm not ashamed ofit. It's a badge of honor.
Yeah yeah, okay, So Imaybe jump in the gun here, but
I listened to the audio version rightbecause I'm I mean, uh, obsessed

(46:30):
with you. Why wouldn't want to? But it gives me a movie or
a show, and I have toknow if something like that is coming,
because now I feel like I knowthese people who you grew up with,
and I almost want to ask you, like, please show me a picture
of Jake or like, Okay,so there's a picture, because in the
book there are pictures oh seek,oh my gosh. Yeah, in the

(46:52):
book there are pictures and of someof the pivotal character. What's going on?
Okay, So, but as youknow, with Viv, she can't
be captured on film. I wrotethis in the book that everything, every
picture that I have of her,she's a flash of light, like she
breaks the camera. I was talkingto her yesterday. Okay, so she's
still one of my closest friends.I was talking to her and she said,

(47:14):
is there a picture of me inthe book? I said no,
because you can't be captured on film. She goes, stop it. I
said, I'm not kidding. Allof the pictures I have of you are
either a flash of light. Butthere's one picture where we're like we're we
have our arms around each other.I'm perfectly in something. She's a dark
just a dark splotch. It's inexplicablethat she's the aperture. She breaks the
aperture. Of a camera. Okay, there's no technology that can capture her

(47:38):
on film. She yes, Sidney'sin the book. Sydney's in the book.
So so yes, thank you forasking. And there have been various
inquiries already from different producers and youknow, screenwriters and everything wanting to do
something with it. And I lovethat idea. I do like the split

(48:00):
screen just what you were talking aboutAndrew the you know well quaffed anchor and
then put her at CBGB's and likethat that split screen his suit and then
combat yes, yes, I meanlike I have my jacket. The guy
downstairs gave me a beautiful fresh Heloves me, he loves you. He

(48:22):
literally only women that he like likesand it's very I don't even want to
say, is this guy really Idon't want to. I don't like because
everybody that he gives it to arejust so different. I'm like, is
he feeling an energy from me?It has to be an energy. He
told me. He let me inon the secret people. Okay, he

(48:45):
loves me good. If you needanything from him, I'm your girl to
go through. Because he just feelsthat the world not enough people are smiling
in the world. And so ifyou share a smile with him, I
got this beautiful fresh Is this aniris? I don't know anyway, So
here's my point. I have abeautiful jacket, my sort of anchor jacket

(49:07):
here with my beautiful iris over theRamones two shirts. This, this duality
is what I hope a TV showor movie can capture. Yes, my
god, I could see it.He's my best friend. Oh yeah,
no, he's so sweet. Ifeel like I could talk to you forever.
Me too, because we can talkabout music, we can talk about
news everything I can. I aska question about news? Yeah, please,

(49:30):
I know, I mean as thenews junkie here, Yeah, but
okay, as someone who has coveredso many stories, right, is there
one in particular that you I don'treally want to get like sad? And
also in the book you talked aboutthe fact that you didn't like gory things,
So we won't go there. It'snot that I don't like gory things.

(49:51):
I don't have a problem with goreythings. It's that whatever question you're
gonna ask me is going to involvea gory thing, like because of news.
You know, news is by definitionoften really hard or painful or really
tough topics. It's like people askme what my favorite story is. I
know, and it's hard to Imean, there are definitely stories from my

(50:12):
time as a crime reporter, storiesfrom my time in politics and everything that
have stuck with me, but someof them are not pleasant. Now,
if you want to get into music, I mean, some of my greatest
moments, happiest moments, have beenwhen the people who were on my wall
as a child, my music iconsand here again I'm thinking of Kiss and
or David Cassidy before your Time,also known as Keith Partridge, were up

(50:37):
on my wall and then they cameinto the studio and I got to interview
them, and I was like,pinch me now, Like if my eleven
year old self could have known thatthat guy on the wall that I looked
up to that I was going tobe interviewing, it would have been such
a dream come true. And ithas been a dream come true. And
so that is so satisfying for mewhen those moments happen. It I like

(50:59):
the scene where you take the Kissposter off the wall and fling it to
the ground fall yeah, and putup the Shrapnel poster. I want to
get into shrapnel specifically. But beforewe do that, was you talk about
as a journalist, you don't wantto be the story. That's that's something

(51:21):
that we all hear in journalism schoolabout removing yourself, removing your your emotions
as much as you can. Sowas there a career milestone for you that
made you think now's the time forthe memoir? Yeah. I started to
feel a little bit like we weren't. I don't know how to explain this.

(51:43):
I didn't want to be in themiddle of any of the stories that
I was covering, but I startedto feel like not sharing anything about myself
and just being a complete, makeup, mask, polished television person without being
able to say to the to whoeverI was interviewing, who was being really

(52:04):
raw and really vulnerable, I've beenthere, like, I know what you
mean. I feel it like withoutbeing able to hug them. I mean
I can't reach out, I can'thold their hand, I can't hug them.
Sometimes we're via satellite. I startedto feel that all of this was
like a barrier actually, and Ijust thought, you know, I really
don't want to inject myself into thestory, So why don't I just write

(52:25):
this and try to explain that we'reall more similar than you'd think. You
know, we all have a backstoryof pain. We all have a backstory
of survival of some kind behind thismakeup mask. You know, I understand
survival and struggle. And I justthought, in this particular moment where we're
so divided, that that could behelpful. And I do feel as though

(52:49):
my instinct was right about that,because when I'm out on the book tour,
people do come up with me andwant to connect and say this spoke
to me or I relate to this. Yeah, I think disclosure is an
important thing when we're talking about fairnessand accuracy and the place that bias has
the maybe percentage of bias and newscoverage you can try to remove it,

(53:13):
but the way you put a sentencetogether has implicit bias, whether you want
it to or not. Yeah,And all you can do. We're human.
I mean, we all come withour own human stories and our own
pasts to the story. We're notautomatons. You can get that from AI
and some day you will, butat the meantime, we're human, and
so we bring our human experience andso all we were taught in journalism school

(53:36):
is be conscious of it, beconscious that you have a bias. Try
to be as fair as you can. And I do that every day.
But by being so sort of visuallykind of no hair out of place,
hairsprayed, makeup, I started tothink I'm not letting people in to know
that, Oh I feel your pain, I know what your eriencing loss or

(54:00):
abandonment or depression. And I cancomfort you right now. I wish I
could. I wish I could comfortyou right now here. Here's at least
a way for people if they havea question about where you're coming from,
whether or not you're a human beingor an AI projection. Yes, there

(54:21):
is at least a way in Yes, yeah, I mean I do feel
that way. And as I meannot to get too not to get too
futuristic, but as a as webecome more automated and as AI takes over
and all that stuff, I justthink that human stories are really important in
any way, through music, throughliterature, through our daily interactions with one

(54:43):
another. It's just going to bemore and more important. So to bring
it back to Rocket to Russia,some of the albums from the seventies that
we've talked about We've really kind ofbeen blown away at the pace at which
a lot of these artists work.And and so this was The Moon's third
record and it came out less thana year after their first one. Wow,

(55:07):
I didn't know that. So thefirst one was the first. Yeah,
the first record. The debut isseventy six. And then Leave Home
and Rocket to Russia both came outin seventy seven. And apparently Rocket to
Russia was recorded between August and Septemberand it came out in November of it.
And fun fact, do you knowwho produced it? Yes, Tony

(55:30):
von Jovi, Yes, who isJohn's cousin? Yes, I didn't know
that. Yeah, I just sawthat in the credits and I texted Diamond.
I was like, oh, listen, literally, yeah, that's how
you spell their name, their actualI looked at him like, he texted
me, yeah, that's I know. You're like, he has do that

(55:50):
sometimes, right, No, that'sthe real Italian spelling the bon Jovie,
you know. And so yeah,so bon Jovi's are everywhere, I guess
is the there are point. Hereare our first guest that actually made it
to the podcast feed. It wasn'tkind of the order but we had Nile
Rogers. Yeah, I love it. I love Nile Rogers. And he
mentioned bon Jovi in that episode becausebon Jovi used to clean up his studio.

(56:14):
What then he john John Bonjo JohnBonjovi meaning like John Bunjovi is like
an intern. He was, yeah, like an intern. He was just
trying to be around the music industryreally and and somebody was like, hey,
you're the most beautiful man I everspeaking of his microphone, can you
sing into this microphone right way?Yeah? Can you sing like an angel?
Well, hey, miss come onhere. Oh I'm sorry, you're

(56:37):
a dude. Okay, you're singright now. So there's all these there's
all these synchronous cities because the firstepisode we listened to Purple Rain and then
we talked to nine. I know, I listened to Your Purple Rain one
and I listened to Purple Rain one. I'd also listen to part of your
your Nile one. Nile is sosuch a cool guy. Your Purple Rain
one was really fascinating because like Isee I see that album him as such,

(57:00):
like it's just sacrosanct, like it'suntouched to me, not just the
album. Anything Prince does like,it's so untouchable we can't question it.
And you guys are like, yah, you give we feel this way.
No, no, no, II only I I didn't re listen to
it after hearing your take on it. I haven't re listened to it,
but I thought it was interesting thatyou were bold enough to have that take

(57:22):
on it. And so now Ineed to revisit it this first episode so
no one will hear it, buthere you listen to listen to it.
So, and I mean, haveyou been like, have princess people come
to like arrescue or have you changedyour identities or anything. We're friends with
Roger probably, I hope. Socould you imagine if a journalist came and

(57:47):
was like, hey, god,yeah but he was I heard when he
was good friends that he was friendswith Prince of course, right yeah,
And he said, you guys straight, oh I know, yeah, which
we listen we need? Yeah,you know, yeah, you're open.
Yeah, I know. We're listeningto all this music like out of context

(58:14):
for the most part, and wewe a lot of times don't know what
we're talking about, but we're trying. And then we're looking up information and
we did a lot of research forthe Purple Rain episode, and there's like
so much out there, but there'salso like no answers to the questions after
We're just like, Nile, youwere around, like what can you tell

(58:35):
us about this guy? And didhe say? What? Did he say?
That was eliminating. They never madea record together, but they were
friends for a long time. Nilesaid that they were always just two guys.
There was no the point he madelike the legends that you hear about
Prince, like don't look me inthe eye, like big bodyguards, like

(58:57):
nudging people out of the way.Nile said that was never his experience,
but I think he also acknowledged that, like I'm also kind of a legend,
so he's going to treat me thatway, Like, yeah, he's
not gonna treat me like that.We were always cool, but you know.
But he tells a story about howPrince was going to play Let's Dance

(59:20):
the Bowie song, the Bowie songthat now produced on like a New Year's
Eve gig like a I think itwas I guess a private gig because he
said it was in front of afew hundred people, And Nile introduces Prince
and Prince leaves like like left theentire not just the stage, Like he
didn't come out, left the building, left the building, And why did

(59:43):
he do that? Never asked him? That's what That's the best explanation we're
going to get. Yeah. Yeah, So I think a sub thread of
the podcast for however long we doit is anyone who knows Prince, can
you give us explain explained? Cancan you explain? Well, let me
just say this as somebody who doesn'tknow Prince to me, and I hope

(01:00:07):
you guys will listen to the bestsong Princess. I mean, my favorite
song is I Could Never Take thePlace of Your Man. That song I
Could Never Take the Place of YourMan is like a perfect like one of
my Desert Island songs. It's oneof the most perfect songs to me ever.
Yeah, so I invite you tolisten to it and let me know

(01:00:28):
what you think. Oh, I'mgonna listen. Well, a Desert Islands,
a Desert Island song. Yeah,somebody says that. Yeah. Helen
Little, who works at Light ofThem, is on the air. She
just got off the air. She'sa big Prince fan, and she confided
in me that Purple Rain was nother favorite album. Interesting, So she'll
be a guest eventually and we'll probablydo a Prince record. I do really

(01:00:52):
like the song Purple Rain, though, did you guys not like that diamond
that It made me feel like Iwas at a funeral because people play like
it was so everywhere after his day. It's just like it it gives me.
It's right, but that's situational,like because you now have that connotation.
You know, it was really kindof hammered. And this is something

(01:01:15):
that in the radio world we areactively doing to a lot of music,
is beating the shit out of it, making people hate it. Yes,
except that then there's like you know, Beyonce's album or this new Tailor Swift
one that apparently like people can't getenough, Like it's that I don't know
what that line is of, youknow, when people are satiated. It's

(01:01:35):
impossible to know because people seem tolike a lot of Yeah, but it's
also an album versus one song.Yes, Yes, good point. Like
I talked about in classic rock,there's songs that I just never want to
hear again. Sure, because Igot it reach Oult of Mine, We're
done. It's a good song,but I don't. I don't ever want
to hear for sure. Yeah,Stairway to Heaven. I don't want to

(01:01:58):
hear Stairway to Heaven again song wouldyou be over? Like if you?
Because now I need to ask everyone. Yeah, I mean there's I don't
need to hear. I don't needto hear as much Boston as I hear
on the radio. Like, andI'm not saying anything bad about Boston.
I just I think we're done here, give it a break. Yeah,
we're done. Yeah. We Wehad Maria Milido on our led Zeppelin episode

(01:02:22):
and I suggested a Boston's debut albumwas one that I suggested maybe for that
episode, and she went because she'sdone. Yeah, Like you know,
at some point we've heard it.After the five hundredth time, you can
be done to my thread about Rocketto Russia as we circle back for the
third time, are you allowed?You're not allowed to play a song?

(01:02:44):
Right? We can't. We've beenwarned to not. It doesn't. That
suck sucks, Like, come on, it sucks. So Joey Ramon at
one point blamed the sex Pistols forRocket to Russia not selling as well.
Well, what did he well?How did he make that argument. I
think his point was that the sexPistols did their behavior was so outrageous,

(01:03:05):
right, and the discourse around themwas was so negative that it turned people
off of punk. Was kind ofthe gist of what he said. Well,
I'm no officinado on all of thepunk history. However, the sex
Pistols, I mean that was theywere an invention. It seems like a
like not even the same thing asthe Rooms. I agree there Ra Moons

(01:03:29):
were really doing it okay, Andthe sex Pistols, as far as I
know, at least as the legendgoes on the folklore is that they were
Malcolm McLaren's invention. You know,they were the original boy band. Seriously,
like he was like, you withthe mohawk, come over here,
you with the drug problem, getover here, you with the leather jacket.
Here, could you guys know howto play guitar? No? Okay,
fake it? And so he likecreated this band. Yeah, they

(01:03:52):
were sort of. They were puttogether basically at a like a fashion boutique
that McLaren and his wife. Theywere all these these like weird misfit kids
that would hang out in this placein London and he just had this idea
to start a band, right,And so I don't think their heart was
in it as much as the Ramones, who were really duking it out every

(01:04:15):
day and you know, fighting thegood fight. That said, I'm always
amazed that I've heard so many storiesabout how the Ramones were surprised and really
disappointed that they didn't have more commercialsuccess. And it's like, okay,
but if you're going to write beaton the Brat and we're a happy family,
and you know, I can't giveyou anything like this is I was.

(01:04:42):
I was revisiting this album and like, well, first of all,
okay, here's here's I want tobe well. Here are the lyrics.
Yeah, I want to be well, I want my LSD Gollie g DDT
okay and Insecticide DDT, Daddy's broke, holy smoke, futures bleak. Now
yeah, does that spell commercial successto you? Not like a year before

(01:05:05):
disco, not in any era,not in any era. It is d
DT lyrics about d DYT did ajob on me. Now I am a
real sicky guess. I've got tobreak the news that I've got no mind
to lose. No, that's notthose are now these are clever, and
these are really for us like atribe. You know, this was tribal

(01:05:27):
music for us when I was ineighth grade and freshman and everything, and
it defined us. But that's notit doesn't lead to commercial success. What
are they thinking? You know?I mean, I don't. That seems
like a misalignment my speaking of commercialsuccess, I think I tried to confirm
this last night by listening to abunch of random remote songs. I think

(01:05:49):
my favorite Romote song is actually petCemetery. Cemetery is great. You like
it? Yeah? I like it. I like it. It's almost not
even a remote song. With allthe production it is. They embraced some
of the some of the eighties onthat. I'm going to look up Pet
Cemetery because I feel like, pleasestand by the guitarist from Shrapnel produced to

(01:06:11):
that incredible Daniel Ray. Daniel Rayproduced that song, So there is a
Shrapnel quality to pet Cemetery. Thereis when when I first heard it,
there are songs of the Ramones thatDaniel Ray, who was the lead guitarist
of Shrapnel, And when I hearthe Ramones, I go oh hi,
Daniel Yeah, and I hear itand that's it's it's they're better songs there.

(01:06:32):
They're really good songs. Now.Now, Diamond and I both listened
to what little Shrapnel music we cannow, I hope you didn't listen like
you didn't listen to on Spotify becausethey're not on Spotify. Not on Spotify
now, that was the first placeI went, and I was like,
this does sounds like an American It'snot, and it was not. So
you had to go on like YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, and so that's

(01:06:53):
a little bit harder because they're likelive music. But I really want Shrapnel
to put to let me put CombatLove. It would be a good time
for them to. Okay, I'mtexting them right now and this is getting
ridiculous. I'm gonna I'm going andit's not like they're out of the business
like they have to. Yeah,I mean they're tratnels out of the business,

(01:07:14):
but the musicians aren't, right.So I'm gonna do that because I
really Combat Love is such a greatsong and I can't kind of enjoyed it,
thank you. I listen to itagain this morning after the Ramones album
and I was like, I thinkI like this better than I like the
remote. Yeah, I like betterthan the Remontes. I'm in there,
I said it. Yeah, Okay, I mean I'm sure they'll be like

(01:07:36):
A And I found a very roughrecording of Sleepover, Yeah, and I
mean that's it. It's too rough, like I need them to remix it
in the studio because it was sogood. So so you know, you

(01:08:01):
know all the Shrapmone guys. Obviouslythey're a big part of your life.
Where are they now? We knowwhere Dave is and so it's Phil Cavano.
So Phil Commano is also in MonsterMagnets. He plays Phil Cavano has
his own He just put out asolo record called Cavano and he also is
a guitarist in Monster Magnet. Andthen Daniel Ray was a longtime producer and

(01:08:21):
songwriter for the Ramones and as wellas other bands, and so he has
had tremendous success producing. And thedrummer I think lives in Shrewsbury, Danny
Clayton. I haven't seen him foryears, but I don't think he's in
music. And then you know,not to spoil it, but the one

(01:08:44):
in the band that I was closestto, Dave Vote passed away and you've
stayed in touch with the surviving members, basically, no reconnect with I reconnected
with them for the book, sobut I always knew where they were because
again, Shrewsbury is such a smalltown. It's like two square miles and
there were so few of us thatI always and we were so proud of
their success and vice versa. Imean, they kind of knew where I

(01:09:04):
was, and so when we wouldyou know, I could go ten years
without seeing them, but if Isaw them at a bar, or I
saw them at a music a livemusic show or whatever, we would be
happy to see each other, youknow. So it's just like that in
my town of Shrewsbury, You don'twe just pick up where we left off.

(01:09:24):
And mean, I guess maybe allsmall towns are like that. So
I always knew what they were doingand was cheering them on, but I
wasn't in as close contact as Iam now with them, and that makes
me really happy to be in contactwith them. Yeah, did you ask
permission to name the book after?There's no, But I asked permission to
use their lyrics, because, aswe've established, you need permission to use
their lyrics, and of course Theywere totally generous and happy to do that,

(01:09:45):
and now I just have to callthem and be like, I'm sorry,
I need to put this on Spotifyif you don't mind. Oh my
gosh, you're kidding me. Oh, thank you Allison so much for doing
my pleasure. Guys, thank yousuper fun. I really appreciate it.
But I'm happy you had fun.Listen, I could to you all day.
Well that makes one of us.No, No, I could talk
to you all day, and soI'm happy that you weren't like, all

(01:10:08):
right, you fan, get outof here. No, happy that you
enjoyed yourself. I love it,And say hi to your dad for me.
Oh my gosh. And that's apodcast. Well, we'll see you
guys next week, where I thinkwe're finally going to do Steve one finally.
It's been like two months since wepromised this episod, so it's coming.
Okay, bye,