June 27, 2024 • 61 mins
AppleMusic recently named The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill the greatest album OF ALL TIME, and while we're dubious, Miseducation received glowing reviews from critics at the time of its release and it is still viewed as a touchstone recording in hip-hip and R&B.
Diamond grew up listening to The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, while Andrew knows very little about Ms. Hill's work beyond the Fugees.
We're also joined by guitarist and educator Alex Goldenthal, who gave Ms. Hill private guitar lessons at her New Jersey home for over a year. Alex shares his insight into the kind of musician, student and peerless talent he saw in Ms. Hill during their work together.
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listen!
Connect with the show via Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast.
(Episode 10.)
Diamond grew up listening to The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, while Andrew knows very little about Ms. Hill's work beyond the Fugees.
We're also joined by guitarist and educator Alex Goldenthal, who gave Ms. Hill private guitar lessons at her New Jersey home for over a year. Alex shares his insight into the kind of musician, student and peerless talent he saw in Ms. Hill during their work together.
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listen!
Connect with the show via Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast.
(Episode 10.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Hi, guys, welcome to anew episode of At First Listen. I'm
Andrew and I'm Diamond, and todaywe are breaking down, exploring, diving
into the miseducation of Lauren Hill fromnineteen ninety eight. Oh, I'm so
excited about this album. Lauren Hill'sonly solo album. Isn't that insane?
(00:37):
Especially She's not an artist that Ifeel like is top of mind, at
least not before this this Apple travesty. Oh no, okay, So do
you want to get into that thereason why we picked this album? Yeah,
okay, So this is my firsttime hearing this album. There is
one Fuji's album that I've heard atleast one one and a half times,
(01:02):
which is I think the last one, The Score, I think it is.
I think yes, the Score,I'm pretty sure was their biggest one.
So I've heard that one, andthat's really my my impression of Lauren
Hill and y clef Yle. Yes, yeah, who is canceled? Is
he really be canceled? Oh no, okay, I'm gonna look that up.
(01:23):
Maybe we'll add it that. Sowe decided to pick this album because
Apple, if you guys didn't know, did have full like one hundred best
Albums of all time, Greatest albumsof all time. I can't remember what
they titled it, but everybody wastalking about the fact that the list was
so off, like it didn't makesense. I don't agree with probably anything
(01:49):
on that list, like numbers wiseand where things fall. But I think
it's subjective. It is what itis. So when I googled y cleft
shon canceled, it was just aboutthe tour being canceled. Okay, so
we don't need to that. Thatol explained it great. Yeah, not
canceled. That was a close onebecause the reason I had ever heard the
fujis was because back in like theearly two thousands, I thought White Left
(02:12):
Jean was pretty cool, so Ichecked out He's really cool. But I
don't know if Lauren agrees that he'sso cool. Well, oh, they're
going on tour again to that lateron. But Apple ranked this album one
of the greatest albums of all times. Okay, so the one hundred greatest
albums of all time subjective subjective becauseI don't agree, but and I don't
(02:32):
think you agree either. No,right, but they named The mis Education
of Lauren Hill as the number onealbum of basically all time, and it's
it's inclusive of all genres, whichI think is my fundamental problem with that
list because I don't think you canaccount for genre. I don't think it's
(02:53):
it's right to do that. Ilike it makes it makes like a competition
out of music a weird way,and I just it's it's gross to me.
It reads to me like they wantedher to show up to something that
they were doing, and she did, and so they made her number one.
Oh but you know what's weird isthat she showed up. There's video
(03:14):
footage of and I think it wasactually on Apple's platform, you know how
they have like Apple Music and anyvideos and stuff. They didn't tell her
that she was number one until likethey had a dinner with her. Yeah,
so maybe they told her like topten or you're on the list,
Yeah, you're pretty high, likewhatever, and then they like brought out
(03:35):
a plaque and clearly she's she's gettingready to tour. She's she's got to
do some sort of publicity. Yeah, oh, Lauren, we'll get into
a lot. So Lauren Hill isdefinitely a fascinating person, a fascinating artist
in while I don't know this album. I do know someone who worked closely
(03:59):
with Lauren about ten or so yearsago, my friend Alex Goldenthal, who
is a longtime bandmate of mine inmy band one hundred thousand and Alex taught
guitar lessons to Lauren Hill's children andthen to Lauren Hill for I think about
a year. But in the nextsegment or the one after, we're going
(04:21):
to have Alex on and he's goingto talk a little bit about what he
did with Lauren Hill, what thatdynamic was like, and his impressions of
her as a musician and an artistand what's because it's an interesting thing.
You know, she's in her likemid to late thirties. I think when
(04:41):
they were working together, she's onlylike forty something forty nine right now.
She was super young when she madethis album. Yes, so to take
lessons on an instrument in your thirties, it's kind of a kind of a
major stea been like the commitment toyour music or to a hobby if you're
(05:03):
if you're not like a world famousmusician. Yeah, so, I'm I've
never really asked Alex any questions aboutthat. He's mentioned things about it.
It was around the time the bandwas starting, and it was a very
cool thing that he was involved in. So, uh, this will be
kind of our first chance to talkto him about what that was like.
(05:23):
I'm very excited. What do youas someone who has not listened to Lauren
on her own, what are youexcited about? Okay, So I don't
really know what to expect here.I assume it's going to be in the
R and B rap realm in termsof genre. I revisited The Fuji's The
(05:47):
Score a while back, and youknow, it's wy Clef and pros Michelle
are kind of the rappers, right, and then Lauren is like the pretty
girl singer. So I'm assuming it'sgoing to be more R and B.
But I don't know if she's gonnawrap. She wraps a little bit in
the Fuji's, but I don't knowhow. I don't know what what the
the approach is gonna be. Okay, Okay, So I think I have
(06:13):
a general idea of what it's gonnafeel like. I know The Score was
kind of a political record. Itreminded me a bit of some other early
nineties albums, like the first RageAgainst the Machine album. Some of the
themes about like black empowerment that youhear on that record, So it'll be
interesting for me to hear how Laurenaddresses topics like that if she does.
(06:38):
Okay, are you excited? I'mexcited. Yeah, I'm pretty excited.
I think that I'll like it,Okay, I hope, So, I
hope I'll like it because the lastepisode was a horrible what's the worst?
So before we jump to the nexthalf of the episode, what is your
(07:00):
experience with this album? You've indicatedthat you've heard it before, it's been
recently. No, I haven't listenedto this album since maybe the early two
thousands, and I think that I'mgiven that a little bit of a little
bit of time because came out inwhat ninety seven, ninety eight? My
(07:24):
mom used to play the album alot, so, like, I know
that I know these songs, butthis will be the first time listening to
the entire album probably since then,probably since early was there was there a
big hit, like a big singlefrom this record, because it's a huge
selling record. Yes, but Idon't think any of the tracks jogged my
memory really, Okay, So forsure, Douop was a big deal.
(07:48):
We played on Z one hundreds sometimessometimes to this day, I think I'm
not sure. I don't think XFactor was as big a hit for everyone
else as it was for me,but I think that. I know it
played on like, let's say,urban stations, and I'm trying to think
(08:13):
everything is Everything was a big songas well. I don't know how big
though, Like it's very it's relative. So it's like killing Me Softly was
on the score by the Fujis,and that's probably the song with Lauren Hill's
voice on it that literally everything everybodyelse. Yeah, and I don't think
this record has that, but Ithink this record was more successful somehow.
(08:35):
Well yeah, well Douop was probablythat record for a lot of people.
And then she covered Can't Take MyEyes off of You, which I'm sure
a lot of people have heard becauseit was like in a movie, if
I'm not mistaken. So and well, okay, that was a hidden track.
(08:56):
I remember it. Those Oh wow, what a time? What we
need to bring those back? Whatdo you think? I never liked them
because I've mentioned before I like longsongs, yeah, and I'm like ready
to settle into a long song.So if i'd see a track on a
CD that was like, oh,this is twenty five minutes. I wonder
(09:16):
what this. I did not knowthat this was going to be on here.
And then it's basically like like likea little song usually at the beginning
whatever the track that precedes it,and like twenty one minutes of silence and
then a song. So I'm justsitting there waiting like is it broken?
Do I need to return this disc? Oh? So I don't. I
(09:43):
don't think hidden tracks need to comeback. Oh okay. Can you imagine
hidden tracks with social media? Whenpeople do their first listen like the night,
then an album drops and everyone's onTwitter or x now whatever and everybody's
like yeah. It's almost like thatwould be the way to to get like
a hit if you're a major artistlike a Taylor Swift or a Beyonce,
(10:07):
and you like, maybe you wouldmake the hitden track the single because people
are gonna listen to the album andthen they're gonna be like whoa and then
social media starts buzzing. I don'tknow how you would achieve that in a
streaming situation, but the theory seemslike a good idea. I think it's
(10:30):
a good idea. Well, ifsomeone brings it back. They're gonna have
to figure out how to do it. No, they heard us talk about
it here. Yeah, okay,all right, Dibbs, Hey, okay,
So we'll be back in a fewminutes or a few seconds, depending
on the magic for podcasting. I'mexcited. Okay, so we'll be back.
Let's do it. We're back atfirst listen. We have listened to
(11:09):
The Miseducation Lauren Hill, and wehave thoughts, so many thoughts. First
of all, I can't say I'mexcited again, but I just did.
I am. I want to know, Andrew, what did you think of
this album? So this is avery good album. I do want to
rage against Apple Music a little bitmore for you. You rank an album
(11:37):
number one on a list that encompassesmusic from all genres. I'm going into
it kind of like with my armscrossed, like prove it. Let's let's
see miss Hill, and it's not. That's not the way I want to
go into listening to a record.And Apple Music did this to me.
(11:58):
But their stupid lip it's horriblest,by the way, horriblest. It didn't
make any sense. Any list thatincludes Travis Scott in any capacity is erroneous
and honestly, we don't care ifyou're a Travis Scott fan. First of
all, Andrew, I totally agree. If you're a Travis Scott fan and
you're upset with us, then youcould go suck it, because I agree,
listen to an to a real song, it's just a lot of noise.
(12:22):
That music is a mess. CanI say it's just parts? It's
not. It's this is what Ithought rock music would sound like like when
I when I listened to like aTravis Scott album, it's just to me,
it's a lot going on, likeyou just get it just doesn't work.
And that's what I originally thought rockmusic would sound like until you,
(12:46):
like, you know, you've openedmy eyes to a lot of music,
right, Okay, you know so, I'm kudos to you, Andrew,
But back to Lauren, kudos toyou Diamond for suggesting this album, and
also to I guess Apple Music andfor a weird way even though I'm cursing
them, but I don't want tohave to go into a record like,
(13:09):
Okay, this better be good oror this better be the greatest album I've
ever heard, like it's you canjust be like here's a hundred of the
greatest albums of all time and notnumber though, yes, that would have
made sense and not put dumb shitlike Travis Scott on there, which by
the way, was ranked above theEagles Hotel California. I don't think Hotel
(13:33):
California is the greatest album of alltime. I think there's like a couple
amazing songs and the rest is reallyboring. But it is better than Astra
World, oh for sure. Ialso would like to say that I didn't
think Billie Eilish's album that was onthere should have been on there. I'm
sorry, sorry, how can you? How can you even put an album
(13:54):
from like the past couple of yearson there? It's just weird. It
doesn't make any sense, right,So the Miseducation of Lauren Hill. Let's
kept back to it eventually. Okay, So what I'll start by saying is
I think the reason why this albumwas ranked so high is because she never
released anything else exactly. She didthat unplugged album with the MTV but whatever,
(14:18):
But like this album, she kindof made us miss her to the
point where like this is like theholy Grail of probably early R and B,
not early R and B but likeearly two thousands, like yeah,
yes, because I mean it wasdone so well that she honestly didn't have
(14:43):
to do anything else. It's it'sdone really well and because that's all there
is. If you're like an upand coming rapper R and B artist,
people have mentioned this album, you'veheard about it, and there's only the
one. You don't go into arecord store or in these days streaming,
(15:03):
but you know, you don't goin there and be like, which Lauren
Hill album do I buy? There'sforty five of them? Yeah, and
it's like I recognize one song onone album, none on thirty and then
a couple songs on another, Likewhat do I get? This is gonna
cost a fortune to get all ofthese and I'm not gonna have time to
listen to it. Ye. Sothe beauty of having a small body of
(15:26):
work is that the people who loveit get super familiar with it. And
so that is one hundred percent whythis album is held in such high acclaim
so many years later. It isa great album really from the intro and
through the little like classroom Vignettest andin a few other ways as well that
(15:52):
we'll get into I got such StevieWonder songs in the Key of Life vibes
from this, Yes, from actuallythe song black Man where he sort of
sets the scene in the in theclassroom scene. They're discussing different things,
certainly, but there is like acelebration type feel to the record. It's
(16:17):
not as joyful as songs in theKey of Life, but it is a
very like honest, kind of unpretentious, like reflective sort of a record.
And it sounds so good. Itdoes. It's just done so well.
Like you think about and you thinkabout the fact that this was I keep
(16:37):
saying early two thousands, but thelate nineties, And for me, I'm
trying to think of like other albumsthat you could compare this to sonically,
and I'm really I think the Fujisis one of the one of the only
ways to go for an album thatis certainly from that time period, because
(17:02):
like this, the sound of thisrecord, the production of it, this
should be what hip hop and Rand B producers are aspiring to, yes,
because there is a this beautiful mixof analog and digital and real playing
(17:22):
and samples and acoustic drums and electronicdrums, and for an album made in
this time period. There's so manyways that that could have gone wrong.
This was like early on in digitalrecording, and a lot of those early
digital records sound so bad. They'relike unlistenable. Like it's like if you
(17:48):
listen to certain records from like thesixties and fifties when it was like either
one mic in the room or likethey were limited to four tracks total for
the entire song, so like youhad vocals on one track and then like
bass and drums on one track,and then like guitar and then any other
instrument, and it was just likethere's no separation. It just sounds muddy.
(18:12):
And then with the digital stuff fromthe advent of digital recording, there's
like this tiny, like dispassionate sortof quality that a lot of that stuff
has, and especially in hip hop, where electronics have always been part of
it, Like they could have justgone that way and not put anything on
(18:33):
two inch tape and used all electronicinstruments. But I think because she had
such a reggae and soul and classicR and B influence that even on the
rap songs, she still has liveplaying and it leads to this like beautiful,
warm sound for the record. Ithink this is our tenth episode.
(19:00):
Oh and looking back on the previousones, the thing that I like maybe
the most about them mis Education ofLauryn Hill, is I think this is
maybe the easiest listen from top tobottom. Like this is the record where
there's not a huge dynamic drop offat any point, and so you can
(19:23):
just put this on and have iton yep and just let it ride.
And it's not that every song soundsthe same. Maybe every song maybe there's
a bit too maybe like tempos andthings like that are a bit too close
together. So some of the youknow, uh naming one track from another
(19:45):
I think I'm going to struggle withon this episode. But still every track
sounds good and every melody is goodand really clever and unconventional in a way.
And like with Prince, we didn'treally like the way that records sounded
overall, even though the songs weregreat. With Elton John, there's like
(20:07):
a lull with the White Stripes,that album was all over the place.
With led Zeppelin, I kind offelt like that album was all over the
place, even though I'm the biggerfan, and you disagreed, And so
I think this is like the mostconsistent from track to track, which is
really helped me get multiple listens becauseit's over an hour long. Yeah,
oh, if you're gonna put outone record, sure make it an hour
(20:32):
and ten minutes or whatever, ifthat's all you're gonna do. I think
the thing about this album is thata lot of artists that came after her
have said that they've used this aslike a blueprint or her, And I
mean whenever someone references Lauren Hill alone, I mean, this is the only
(20:52):
thing that we can reference, especiallyjust her. But I don't think any
of them have ever hit like reallyhit this or the nail on the head
when it comes to using this asa blueprint, Like nothing comes close to
this at all when you're thinking ofthat sound. I don't think anyone has
topped it. What do you think? I'm trying to think of people who
(21:15):
have said that they've used her.Beyonce said that she used her as inspiration
or this album as an inspiration withthe album four, which was like people
didn't like it because they felt likesome people wanted more R and B from
Beyonce. Some people it was verypoppy. That's the one that not single
(21:36):
ladies, I'm trying to think thebest thing I ever had, and those
songs where she's like really singing forthe first time in a really long time.
But I still think even that missedthe mark. It just it's when
you go back and you listen tothis album, you realize how good music
was at one point, and it'slike, ugh, I was thinking today
as I was kind of jumping aroundthe album trying to like refresh my memory
(21:59):
on certain songs. If you hadplayed this for me and asked me,
like, what year or what decadedo you think this is from? I
don't know that I would have beenable to answer confidently really because it it
I mean, because of the hiphop elements. You know, it's it's
(22:21):
at least from the late seventies,so you know, there's that that that
narrows it down a bit. ButI wouldn't say that this was from the
eighties. Like, it doesn't soundlike a Beyonce record sounds I think Beyonce
records, though they sound good,they'd sound digital. They sound like there's
a lot of digital stuff on there, and it doesn't sound too contemporary,
(22:48):
but it doesn't sound you know,the music that I think of from the
nineties. This isn't really the soundthat I associate with, right, So
it's very you're making a point,there's a time. There's definitely a timelessness
in that. It doesn't really tome epitomize a certain period of time.
(23:11):
Well, see, you're lucky,right, because for me, it's just
like it's one of those things that'sin my home, Like I could smell
my mom's car as a kid,like whatever the song. I mean,
this album was on repeat like forprobably at least a year and a half
at least, Andrew so your mom, your mom just picks up like one
(23:34):
album a year and then and justyou know what she would do, like
she'd buys it was a I thinkwe had both because I remember the art
worker. Her mom is a multiformata. My girl was gett pop in
Okay. So I remember the albumcover, the artwork of the album cover.
But then I also know for afact that there's a tape because I
(24:00):
remember seeing Douop on it and rememberingthat I don't know that was how you
spelled do and wop whatever. Listen, Lauren taught me a lot with this
album. We'll get into that ina second. I'm trying to look for
the track list, I like gotsidetracked and was looking at all the awards
that it won. I think it'sgreat to mention that she was the only
(24:23):
female rapper to ever win a Grammyup until I think Cardi B won in
maybe twenty nineteen. So how longwas that over? Twenty years? Right?
Because this was probably that was probablythe nineteen ninety nine Grammys that she
won, which is insane. Andthere's this iconic photo of her. People
(24:44):
have this photo of her in theirhomes of her holding like five the five
Grammys. I think it was fouror five in her hand, and it's
just like so Cute'm like, Lauren, when you think back on it,
Like you mentioned earlier, I thinkit was before we listened, you talked
about how young she was. I'mlike, I was. I looked up
her age now. I was shockedthat she's still in her forties. Yeah.
(25:06):
So then I did the math andshe was like twenty two or twenty
three when she made this album,and that was after like three with the
Fujies. Oh my gosh, Sothat's a child. Have you ever seen
sister act too? No? Okay, so she was in that movie with
Wio You go way okay, andit was I mean I always thought,
because I watched sister act probably inmy childhood, I thought that she was
(25:26):
a huge singer before she did thismovie, when actually it was the opposite.
She was like a child actor fora little bit. She did the
movie, and I think that shewas working with the Fujis at the time.
They all went to high school together, so they were doing like work.
I don't know if their first albumhad come out yet, probably because
after the movie came out and shehad so much success from that, the
(25:51):
score came out maybe a few yearslater. Listen Lauren and her or a
younger day, she was getting itpop and okay. I mean that actually
made little sense given like if shewas on this like young actor track,
that makes a little bit more senseof it. As to the output,
you know, maybe yeah, thecreative output. Yeah, I want to
(26:14):
make a like. One of thethings that really strikes me about this record
is Lauren's voice. She sounds likeshe's just one of these people who has
a natural loud a naturally loud voicethat projects very easily. Like she doesn't
seem to me like a technical likea trained singer. She may be,
(26:37):
but it's just like this voice comesout of her so easily. And the
thing that makes that so good onthis record is because when she does rap,
it doesn't it's not like flipping aswitch because her voice is so resonant.
It it still sounds harmonic. It'sstill sounds like it could be singing.
(27:00):
There's not like this big difference likewhen Beyonce raps, it's a totally
different voice. It's like a majorswitch up. Yeah, And with with
Lauren Hill, whether she's singing orrapping, it's like you don't even really
notice. So you referring to heras as a rapper, I was like,
she's not a rapper, but sheis rap. Yeah, so yeah,
of course that quality. Of courseshe's qualified. You know, I
(27:23):
have always, for some reason,and it may have been Nicki Minaj's fault,
I've always looked at her as arapper, as Lauren Hill as a
rapper, because Nicki Minaj when shefirst came out, and I mean we
know this now, she tries tosing and rap on songs and she's not
(27:44):
a good singer at all. Butshe did a song once and in it
she said that she didn't get arecord label to sign her because she wasn't
Lauren Hill. Like they told her, you're not Lauren Hill, you can't
rap and sing, and so thathas resonated. Surely Lauren Hill is the
only person in the world. Well, I think for a long time she
(28:07):
was probably the only person in theworld who could do both and make it
sound so good, who anyone wouldput money behind. Yeah, I mean
yolo. So what did you thinkabout? Do you want to talk about
specific songs that you liked or anythat you disliked? H there were none
that I disliked, Andrew, Wow, That's what I'm talking about with like
just the consistency of the vibe acrossevery track. There's some that made more
(28:33):
of an impact. Like I thinkit's interesting that there's an electric guitar solo
on the song X Factor and thenthe following track to Zion. I guess
if there was a track I didn'tlike, it would actually be to Zion?
What this track? Now that you'reediting the episodes, you're a little
(28:57):
bit concerned about your level, No, So I just think it's funny that
there's this guitar solo on X Factorand then the next track features Carlos Santana
playing not an electric guitar, Soit's the I think it's the gospely thing
that I didn't really vibe with fortto Zion. But Superstar is a really
(29:22):
cool record. The track that iskind of like rattling around in my head
is Every Ghetto, Every City,which to me, that was what made
it click for me. Like theStevie Wonder references. She I think she
literally says, I wish it isone of the lyrics. I made a
(29:45):
note of it. I that soyeah, she says, I wish those
days would never stop. Oh wow, And the Stevie Wonder lyric, and
I wish is something like I wishthose days would come back or again or
something. Oh that's what made methink of Stevie. I don't know.
I tried to look up if shesampled him, and I didn't see anything.
(30:08):
But there is a lot of orI think it's on the Lost Ones
and then for sure on Every Ghetto, every City. There's that keyboard sound
that always evokes Stevie Wonder. Listenthat sort of quacky keyboard sound. I'm
very happy that you brought that upbecause I kind of thought. Once I
looked up and looked it up andsaw that, like, I couldn't find
(30:30):
anything as far as like her evenmentioning him. I'm like, oh,
maybe I'm just making this up inmy head. So I'm so happy that
you were on the same page.I so you said there were not songs
on here that you didn't like,and I'm trying to figure out if there
are any songs on here that Ididn't like. I think I could have
(30:52):
done without the skits to be completelyOh yeah. I do think that they
tied the album together, and Iappreciate that, but I think I could
have done without them. I reallydo like Lost Ones. I loved like
that beat. It just like hmm, it kind of makes you feel like
you're like popping into your shoulder alittle bit like it. Listen ten out
(31:15):
of ten Experience X Factor, whichapparently was written about her affair with y
Cleft John. Did you know that, Oh Andrew let me put you on?
So apparently they were you know,he was married. This isn't a
secret though, So he was married. I think he still is married.
But they had an affair and sheclaimed that they were madly in love,
(31:41):
and I think he at some point, it may have been in the two
thousands, he addressed it and therewas something there, but she was madly
in love with him, and hedecided to I think his wife found out
and decided to stay with his family, and she apparently was heartbroken until she
met Bob Marley's son, Yes,who I think should get a lot of
(32:06):
credit with this album because a lotof it gives a really deep reggae sound
to me, and a lot ofit was recorded at like at Bob Marley
Studio in Jamaica and stuff. Andshe says that a lot of their family
members were a lot of his familymembers were around during this like recording,
so I think that they deserve somecredit too. But we'll get to that
(32:30):
in a second. Because I can'tbelieve that you don't you didn't like to
Zion, Well, not saying thatyou didn't like it, but I didn't
like it. It's I think theconcept of the song I don't really understand.
I guess it's like a christ story, really you think so. I
think it's like a combination of thatand maybe her her pregnancy. Yeah,
(32:52):
her first time. People said,you know, it's gonna ruin your career
and all that stuff, she stilldecided to have the baby. It's the
only song that gets a little bitpreachy, whereas like every ghetto, every
city is such an autobiographical song.And I also appreciated on another level as
someone who lived in literally that areathat she's talking about. I went to
(33:15):
college at seton Hall. Ivy Hillis basically next door, and I knew
people that lived there, people whogot robbed there, people who had totally
fine experience there. She mentions abunch of spots in Newark that I know,
(33:35):
especially artists from New Jersey. There'sa lot of them, and they
don't really rep New Jersey like that, and they certainly don't rep Newark like
that for the you know, thethe kind of cool city that it is.
I it's funny that you said thatto Zion was a little preachy,
because I thought I've always felt likeDouop was kind of preachy, especially coming
(33:59):
from someone who, like, Imean, it's kind of public about her
situations and relationships, not public publicwhere we know a whole bunch of stuff,
but we do know that, likeyou were dealing with this person,
you were dealing with that person.Whatever I think it's so funny. Like
there's one line in Duop where she'slike fake hair like Europeans and nails done
(34:20):
by Koreans. Com again, I'mlike, girl, why are you coming
for me? If I want towear a little weave and get my nails
done, okay, if I wanta little acrylic, it's okay. I
felt like that part was a littlepreachy, like I get it, Lauren,
but like piped down for a secondBabes pipe. But then the line
about the line we were talking aboutbefore we started, about shaking your ass
or something, It's like that couldbe a song that comes out today.
(34:45):
It could be, but don't youthink it's funny? Like that could be
a song about Instagram. It couldbe, But don't you think it's funny
that? Like she says this inninety seven and then like Torking comes like
yes, yes, the biggest thingever, And I'm like, yeah,
yeah, Well, you guys havebeen looking for Lauren for the past twenty
years. She tried to warn usshe's not with the shits, and so
she's taken some time. Okay.She's like, I don't want anything to
(35:07):
do with you guys right now.I do want to know when I was
listening to I know we're skipping aroundto like, you know, different songs
and stuff like that, but everythingis everything. The instrument that's being played
is that a piano? Let mesee if I could try to play it
(35:27):
for you, Andrew, because I'vealways wanted to know what this specific instrument
was. Is that like, yeahiopiano, but like multiple? Did they
stack that? How do you getit to sound like that? Yeah?
That could be multiple, That's agood observation. It also might just be
(35:50):
that there's a you know, likesome sort of effect on it. I
think it sound a little distorted.It's like a distorted piano. Describe it.
Always wanted to know what instrument thatwas because for me, I've heard
people like play I don't know whatdo you like? Play that? And
actually it sort of sounds the qualityof that distortion makes me think that it's
(36:10):
a sample. Okay, okay,all right, so let's bring in Alex.
God knows what tracks he wants totalk about, So we're gonna bring
him in right after the break,and we're back on that first listening podcast.
(36:35):
I'm Andrew and I'm Diamond, andwe're here with my good friend,
Alex Goldenthal. Sorry, I gotexcited. Thanks for joining us, Alex.
So so yeah, Alex and Ihave been in the band together for
like thirteen years now. Alex isone of the best musicians I know,
and he's so good in fact,that he taught a multi time Grammy Award
(36:59):
winning musician, Miss Lauren Hill,some guitar lessons quite a few years ago.
But Alex, you and I havenever really talked about your experience working
with her, and since today Diamondand I are talking about the miseducation of
Lauren Hill. I'd like to askyou, like, when you did start
working with her, what was shelike as a musician, What was the
(37:22):
starting point there? Well, firstof all, thank you for the kind
words. I appreciate that. Yeah, no, it was it was really
cool when we started. She definitelyshe knew how to play guitar, you
know, she knew you know,her chords and stuff. I think she
had been doing a bunch of acousticlive stuff. So like what our focus
(37:45):
was on in the beginning was likeshe just wanted to like understand more of
what she was doing. So she'ssuch a naturally gifted musician. She picked
up things very quickly, and shelike kind of intuitively knew how to play
in a lot of ways, sheknew how to make music. You're saying,
(38:07):
yes, yeah, and but Imean she had someone had clearly or
she had taught herself, like youknow, certain bar chords and stuff.
So what we focused on, likeshe wanted to know what she was playing,
like she's like, I'm playing thischord, what is that? Or
you know a lot of stuff onscales. She was always like super interested
in scales and understanding a little bitmore theory. So you know, we
(38:30):
worked on you know, basic youknow, or you know, major and
minor scales, you know, sometheory modes, intervals and stuff to kind
of connect the dots with what sheintuitively heard in her brain and was able
to play, and then understanding whatthat was. So that that's like where
(38:51):
our initial focus was. Yeah,and you were playing acoustic guitarist primarily,
Yeah, yeah, all acoustic.Yeah, she played like a cloud guitar
a lot of the time. Yeah. Well excuse me, you guys,
are you're talking about something that Idon't really know about. So I'm just
gonna cut to Alex. What songsif you remember, like, were there
(39:13):
any songs do you that you rememberthat we're on this album. I know
Andrew told you to just look atthe track list. You didn't have to
sit through the entire album like wedid three times. But like, do
you remember any of the songs fromthis album that she that you helped her
play? Yeah? Yeah, Andthat's something we got a little bit more
into towards because I probably worked withher for about a year. This was
(39:36):
like twenty fourteen or so, andshe was getting ready to do like more
acoustic shows and she wanted to beable to play you know more, so
we have been working Ones that Idefinitely know that we worked on was a
Rebel War in the Mind, XFactor, doop Ister Intentional and uh,
(40:05):
you know, the Fuji's Ready orNot, which was very exciting to me
to do that one because that's that'swhere I first never heard Miss Hill was
on you know doing you know,I remember being a kid watching the Vidi
music video for that song and likethat was the coolest thing ever. So
yeah, when we got to playthat, I was like, that was
(40:25):
like, at least for me,like, yeah, like did you fan
out? Not super hard actually becauseI didn't because he was terrified. She
has a I mean, she hasa has a very strong like presence and
energy. You can like feel it. You know, she's she you know,
(40:46):
has an aura about her. Forfor sure, she's a very commanding
presence. But when I started workingwith her, like I knew who she
was, but I wasn't listening toas much like R and B and like
you know that that kind of mixof R and B and hip hop a
little bit, So I wasn't likeI knew who she was and some of
(41:06):
her music, but I was likeso in like the metal world at the
time that like it didn't quite likephase me as much. And honestly it
was she was so cool and likejust being there. It was like even
though she has this very commanding energy, like we got along great and there
was never like really like an intimidationlike factor or anything like that. But
(41:28):
yeah, she was she was apleasure to work with. I'm sure that
she loved the fact that you werelike calm and cool, because people fan
out over this woman like past hasno patience for that. When she finally
met Nicki Minaj, after I don'tknow how many years, Nikki like got
on the floor and started like doingall this extra shit, and it's like
she probably is like, listen,I just need peace. And if you
(41:51):
guys are calm, then cool,you're invited into this aura. But oh
god, I think I would havepassed out. Yeah, no, I
mean that's that's how it felt,actually, like she you know, you
know, I can't say for sure, but just kind of coming in and
just being like a real person andtreating her, you know, like a
human being and you know, respectingwhere she's at, you know, and
(42:13):
any of the wee, any ofthe Grammys are like the platinum or Diamond
albums on display in the house Iate to my recollection. I don't believe
so. But she also had somuch like we would always be in her
living room, which is like thisbig, wide, open living room,
and she had so much cool stufflike art, you know, all sorts
(42:36):
of books, racks of clothing withlike super cool outfits and stuff. I
don't remember. So I don't rememberseeing any Grammys on display. She seems
like the type of person who likehas them in a box somewhere. She's
just like, what, so,Alex, I know you've you've talked guitar
formally a long time You've had alot of adult students too. How did
(42:57):
she compare to other like adult guitarstudents that you've had, You know,
I mean everyone's a little bit different, but she was very like she's if
she's going to do something, she'sgoing to do it one hundred percent and
like be all in. So youknow, there were times where she wanted
to get like a certain scale downand understand it and we would have run
(43:19):
that for like almost a full hour. Like it was very like she was
you know, she didn't get boredor like if she was dedicating time to
it, she was going to bedoing one hundred percent of that and be
all in and not everyone has thatlike focus or that you know, that
level of commitment. But yeah,so she was, you know, in
(43:40):
that way, like a great student. Obviously, she also had a very
busy life, so practice time,like when she had that time, it
had to be very intentional. Yeah, she was. She was a she
was a good student. Timan,do you know where, Alex, do
you know where the mized thing camefrom? No, wh why that became
her thing? I don't know why. I that's how you know, when
(44:04):
when I first started working with them, like everyone always referred to her as
miss Hill. No one ever calledher Lauren. I was told to address
her as miss Hill, and youknow, I'm gonna respect that, and
you know, so that's but Idon't know where that came from though,
I have no clue either, butI know that in just out in the
media, people will put m lH and I'm like, what is mL
(44:28):
H? And it's Miss Lauren Hill. For the longest, I had no
clue. I don't know why.I don't know. Maybe it's I don't
know. I almost like compared herto somebody else and it wouldn't have made
sense. So we're gonna just know. But I don't know. Diamond,
in one of our early episodes,compared to Elton John to DMX in a
(44:50):
part that I cut out because itwas just I was so kind of stunned
by it. I didn't react.So I was just like, I can't
just leave this in there with withneither of us addressing that. That's a
bit of a strange comparion. Butokay, Andrew is telling the story,
like, let me clarify, Okay, Alex, I don't want I don't
want you to think that I'm alunatic or the people listening. I'm so
(45:15):
what happened? Elton John released twoalbums in one year, and I don't
know. I think we were talkingabout the fact that like people don't do
that, it's crazy whatever, andI remember saying, oh, well,
DMX did the same thing in Ithink two thousand or two thousand and two,
no, like nineteen ninety eight.So I'm like, DMX did the
(45:35):
same thing. But hey, likeand I should have said yeah too,
they're great, but I didn't,and so I was just cut it out.
So this is the first time anyone'shearing about it. Do you remember
like jamming with Miss Hill, Yeah, that was that was always the coolest.
Yeah, because towards I would say, like the last few months of
us working together, she was preparingfor a bunch of shows and getting ready
(46:00):
to tour, so a lot ofwhat we did was like rehearsing, so
you know, that would sometimes beus playing together and like her strumming away
and like almost kind of like justhaving me there so that she could run
through the songs and kind of belike a sounding board. And I would
say, like selfishly, like oneof the coolest like moments would be like,
(46:21):
sometimes we'd be jamming, she wouldbe playing the chords, and in
between a verse or something, Iwould start like noodling or playing like a
lead. And sometimes she'd be likeshe's an issue issue like and I was
like, oh man, that's socool. Yeah you're like, Missille,
I'm available, you know, right, I have I I have time in
(46:42):
my schedule to tour theaters and arenaswith you if if you need me,
I've seen my entire life you'd likeme to. But yeah, no,
jamming jamming with her was awesome.And like I said, I mean,
you know, she knew she likeher songs. I didn't really you know,
like I charted them out and stuff, but she already knew how to
(47:05):
like play like play them you knowfor the like, because I think she
had already been doing some acoustic livestuff, so she knew like how to
play her songs. A lot ofit was because she wanted the vocabulary,
yeah, going over the theory andlike the vocabulary behind them. I selfishly
am this is more of like apetty question. I'm just gonna put it
out there before I even start.How many classes or lessons did she cancel?
(47:29):
Because you know, this woman is. She is known for canceling shows
after people Weish Diamond and I havea theory that the the Apple Music the
Greatest Album of All Time thing wasjust to get her to show up to
something that they were putting on.You know, there were there were some
cancelations. Like a lot of mycommunication was through her personal assistant. You
(47:52):
know, it was usually like she'dlet me know, like at least like
the day before or something. Shehad a lot going on, though,
so sometimes there was you know,she'd be in a meeting somewhere and we'd
have a schedule time and she couldn'tmake it on time. And if I
could adjust, I would, Ifnot, I wouldn't, and they would
still you know, accommodate and andyou know, pay me for my time
(48:15):
even if we couldn't end up makingit. She really wanted to learn the
guitar, and like I think thatlike in a lot of ways she wished
she wanted to be able to domore lessons than we were able to at
the same time. But we probablydid lessons for like over a year,
and we had definitely had more lessonsthan not. Did you ever think,
like, oh, I think wemight be writing a song right now.
(48:37):
No, we never worked on anythingnew. But like sometimes when I was
like waiting for her, I wouldlike just be playing my own stuff.
And there was a couple of timesshe said that, you know, stuff
was cool, like she liked whatshe was hearing. But she never started
like singing or anything. No,Well, she would sing around the house
a lot. Okay, that's yeah. She would you know, kind of
walking you know, walking around orcoming down the stairs. She would you
(48:58):
know, sing and like almost belike half singing, half warming up her
voice. Did she One of theobservations I made about the album was that,
like Lauren miss Miss Hill's voice seemsto come out of her really naturally.
Like she doesn't sound like she hasa great singing voice through training.
(49:19):
It's it's kind of like something thatshe was born with, Like it's just
naturally like loud and resident. Yeah, and she I would say that her
musical gifts are like effortless in away. And that's you know, not
to say that she doesn't work onit, because she does, but like,
yeah, she's just one of thosepeople that it's clear that they were
(49:42):
born with tremendous gifts and able toto do this, Like you know,
there was no you know, nosinging and hitting a flat note or like
you know, being off or somethinglike that. She was just you know,
always like just on point, youknow. And yeah, she's probably
(50:07):
I mean, at least I wouldsay easily like the most talented musician like
I've worked with, just in termsof just at being so natural and just
coming from like totally from her,from within her. Wow. So the
last question I really have for youis do you have any idea why she
(50:29):
hasn't put out more music as someonewho is in her house, in her
life and engaging with her musically ona semi regular But I would yeah,
I mean, obviously there's no waythat I can truly answer that. But
what I would say is that,like what I know from her is that
she is she's very intentional. Shetruly marches to her own beat, and
(50:58):
like I get the feeling that whenshe's ready to do something or she feels
like it's like worth putting out,she will. But like there's no,
she's not the type of person that'sgoing to be kind of publicly persuaded to
like release something, like she's notgoing to feel that pressure. It doesn't
matter how many people comment on herInstagram or whatever, like you need to
(51:19):
put out a record, that's that'sgoing to bounce off because she's so true
to her own art that you know, if it doesn't make sense and it
doesn't feel real and like it's notperfect for her or not perfect. I
don't know if she's like a perfectionistin that way. But if it's not,
if it doesn't have that meaning andit doesn't feel right, she's not
going to do it. That's abeautiful thing. So that's what that's would
(51:43):
be my guess. When it feelsright, she will do You think maybe
there is an album like that maybeshe just didn't put out, or that
there are songs looking on songs,Yeah, you know, we didn't.
I was never like privy to anything. She never like tested out like a
new song that didn't exist, youknow. With me, she was never
like, hey, I'm working onthis thing. No. But there was
(52:06):
times that she was going to thestudio. Oh you know, but I
don't know if that was to workon her stuff. Maybe it was to
hang out with other people that wereworking on other things. It wasn't like,
hey, miss Hill's going to workon her new record Listen, I'm
just very happy that you were here. I feel like I could tell people
(52:28):
that I know someone who helped teachLauren Hill how to play guitar. I
mean, they don't have to knowall the facts, but I'm gonna like,
yeah, I know, I knowsomeone who taught her lessons. Yeah,
you know, she just announced thetour. Do you want to go?
We should go. I mean,we don't know how long we're going
(52:49):
to be waiting for her, butit's like her the Fujis. Since you
guys like the Fujis, Come on, Alex, are you down? I
should go? Yeah? I Workingworking with her was was a pleasure and
like one of the coolest experiences I'veever had as a musician. You know.
(53:10):
I always tried to keep things likevery professional with her, you know,
but you know, yeah, there'sthere's some like cool moments that like
I'll never forget, you know,us laughing about certain things, or you
know, sometimes she would like saysome really you know, deep stuff like
we would talk a little bit aboutlife or like philosophy or you know,
(53:32):
it was you know a lot ofways, in a lot of ways surreal,
but like she's also you know,a person just like us. I
can't you know, say how enough, like just how special you know that
was? But yeah, I'll alwaysI kind of you know, I wish
I remember some of Like I wishI had like a quote that she like
(53:52):
gave me or something like that,But it was more just like the energy
and like the experience of like youknow, just connecting with her and uh,
you know, being able to sharethat. I love that. I
love that. Well, thank you, Alex, we really appreciate it.
Yeah, no problem, Thank youfor having me on, and thanks for
bearing with us as we figured outhow to make this happen. Am I
(54:15):
the first Zoom person for you?The first successful Zoom guest? Yeah?
Yeah. The other Zoom guest waswas actually Nile Rogers, but we we
kind of fucked up an element ofthat, a pretty key element, so
we don't have video from it.But okay, well, I'm glad I
was able to be the first successfulone and give me a thank you thanks
(54:37):
for having me on. All right, see, I'll talk to you soon.
Sounds good. Nice to meet you. Nice by. Can I just
say, while we're still recording,did you record the video to that?
Nope? No, I didn't.I looked up as we were wrapping up.
I was like, ash ship,I just mentioned, like when you
(55:00):
said it. I looked over inthe corner and I realized it didn't say.
This meeting is being recorded, allright? When we come back,
we will talk about the next episodeof that First Listen and we're back.
(55:24):
What a good episode. That endingis probably the best thing on the planet
Andrew ten out of ten experience,if you ask me. And I just
literally I am laughing in my headright now. I'm trying to compose myself
because I feel like you'll be like, oh, time out. But that
(55:47):
was that was the laugh I neededfor today, the laugh I needed.
Thank you so much for that.It's been a week keep I keep waiting
for things to slow down, andthat's just not happening. Okay, Well
maybe no, I was gonna saysomething that won't work out anyway. What
(56:12):
do the people have in store forthem for next week's episode? I would
like to do a little retrospective sortof. We've listened to actually eleven albums,
ten official episodes. Eleven albums seemslike a good point to reflect on
the at First Listen podcast so far, so let's take a week or so
(56:37):
to think about the new music thatwe've learned about the past few months,
What is sticking around in our lives. What are we going back to just
as a reflex, not because wehave to do it for the show.
Yeah, and let's just talk aboutsome of our takeaways from these first ten
(56:58):
episodes. We covered a lot ofa lot of random, wild stuff records
from the seventies, eighties, nineties, early two thousands, and today New
York's Best Variety. Some might say, I'm very excited for this, but
now I have to go back andlike really dig through my recently played to
(57:22):
really figure out what I'm still listeningto. You know, Yeah, let's
take an analytical tact. So whatare we playing with that thinking about it
and then also thinking back to theseepisodes, what are we like, Hey,
why why am I not listening tothis song or this record? More?
I know there's a bunch that SteveWonder record was so long it was
(57:45):
that we probably both want to goback to some songs that like, you
totally shut down on a few songsthat were like you like this one,
I don't even remember it, yep, yep, And I was like,
this is the greatest song on theright. I'm I'm thinking it feels like
we talked about Purple Rain a yearago. Oh yeah, I may have
(58:05):
to force myself to revisit at leasta few songs on that album because I
did. I didn't. We'll pick, We'll go through the little buffet of
music and just get get a newfound appreciation. Okay, I am very
excited to go back to the WhiteStripes album. Interesting. Yeah, yeah,
(58:29):
yeah, That's what I'm thinking about. And the irony of that episode
remains that I am not going togo back to that one. Yeah,
I love that. Well, I'mexcited. So I'll see you here next
week. Who knows? Jinx Oh, okay, who knows. So next
(58:53):
episode we're going to look back atall the episodes, and maybe this is
the episode that people get into becausethey're like, I want ten albums of
recommendations. I want the broad strokesof the show. Where are the major
takeaways of five months? Oh really, I don't think it's that many.
(59:13):
Maybe four maybe four four of fourmonths, four full months of podcasts and
music, and then after that we'llget into like the second half of the
year of our first year as ashow. I'm so excited. Who knows,
who knows where that's going to takeus? Oh my gosh, I
hope it takes me to nineties Rand B at some point, some point,
(59:37):
because I don't think Lauren Hill countit as like nineties R and B.
Sure, it's like more two thousandsto me. I mean we didn't
mention the D'Angelo feature on the record, Oh my gosh. And I mean,
who's more nineties R and B thanD'Angel I know, Ah, I
can see the picture of him,D'Angelo and like Brian McKnight. Oh,
(01:00:00):
don't get me started on Brian McKnight. He's canceled. Now, he's canceled,
is he? I mean, like, has formed a whole new family
and doesn't care about his older children. It's sick. It's sick. But
yolo to him. I guess Iguess he's canceled. Yeah, I don't
know. Yeah. For me,he's just privately canceled. Started back at
(01:00:21):
one. That's exactly what he did. I don't like these kids. I'm
starting all over again. That's exactlywhat he did. Whatever. At least
he's consistent, all right. Ithink this has been a show. This
has been a show, Thanks forlistening. We'll be back next time with
that first listen. Connect with uson Instagram. You know we have we
have nothing after this, so suggestan album that we should check out.
(01:00:42):
So say just a guest we shouldhave on Hey, what all we can
do is try I first listened podcaston Instagram. Thank you, Bye bye w
Hi, guys, welcome to anew episode of At First Listen. I'm
Andrew and I'm Diamond, and todaywe are breaking down, exploring, diving
into the miseducation of Lauren Hill fromnineteen ninety eight. Oh, I'm so
excited about this album. Lauren Hill'sonly solo album. Isn't that insane?
(00:37):
Especially She's not an artist that Ifeel like is top of mind, at
least not before this this Apple travesty. Oh no, okay, So do
you want to get into that thereason why we picked this album? Yeah,
okay, So this is my firsttime hearing this album. There is
one Fuji's album that I've heard atleast one one and a half times,
(01:02):
which is I think the last one, The Score, I think it is.
I think yes, the Score,I'm pretty sure was their biggest one.
So I've heard that one, andthat's really my my impression of Lauren
Hill and y clef Yle. Yes, yeah, who is canceled? Is
he really be canceled? Oh no, okay, I'm gonna look that up.
(01:23):
Maybe we'll add it that. Sowe decided to pick this album because
Apple, if you guys didn't know, did have full like one hundred best
Albums of all time, Greatest albumsof all time. I can't remember what
they titled it, but everybody wastalking about the fact that the list was
so off, like it didn't makesense. I don't agree with probably anything
(01:49):
on that list, like numbers wiseand where things fall. But I think
it's subjective. It is what itis. So when I googled y cleft
shon canceled, it was just aboutthe tour being canceled. Okay, so
we don't need to that. Thatol explained it great. Yeah, not
canceled. That was a close onebecause the reason I had ever heard the
fujis was because back in like theearly two thousands, I thought White Left
(02:12):
Jean was pretty cool, so Ichecked out He's really cool. But I
don't know if Lauren agrees that he'sso cool. Well, oh, they're
going on tour again to that lateron. But Apple ranked this album one
of the greatest albums of all times. Okay, so the one hundred greatest
albums of all time subjective subjective becauseI don't agree, but and I don't
(02:32):
think you agree either. No,right, but they named The mis Education
of Lauren Hill as the number onealbum of basically all time, and it's
it's inclusive of all genres, whichI think is my fundamental problem with that
list because I don't think you canaccount for genre. I don't think it's
(02:53):
it's right to do that. Ilike it makes it makes like a competition
out of music a weird way,and I just it's it's gross to me.
It reads to me like they wantedher to show up to something that
they were doing, and she did, and so they made her number one.
Oh but you know what's weird isthat she showed up. There's video
(03:14):
footage of and I think it wasactually on Apple's platform, you know how
they have like Apple Music and anyvideos and stuff. They didn't tell her
that she was number one until likethey had a dinner with her. Yeah,
so maybe they told her like topten or you're on the list,
Yeah, you're pretty high, likewhatever, and then they like brought out
(03:35):
a plaque and clearly she's she's gettingready to tour. She's she's got to
do some sort of publicity. Yeah, oh, Lauren, we'll get into
a lot. So Lauren Hill isdefinitely a fascinating person, a fascinating artist
in while I don't know this album. I do know someone who worked closely
(03:59):
with Lauren about ten or so yearsago, my friend Alex Goldenthal, who
is a longtime bandmate of mine inmy band one hundred thousand and Alex taught
guitar lessons to Lauren Hill's children andthen to Lauren Hill for I think about
a year. But in the nextsegment or the one after, we're going
(04:21):
to have Alex on and he's goingto talk a little bit about what he
did with Lauren Hill, what thatdynamic was like, and his impressions of
her as a musician and an artistand what's because it's an interesting thing.
You know, she's in her likemid to late thirties. I think when
(04:41):
they were working together, she's onlylike forty something forty nine right now.
She was super young when she madethis album. Yes, so to take
lessons on an instrument in your thirties, it's kind of a kind of a
major stea been like the commitment toyour music or to a hobby if you're
(05:03):
if you're not like a world famousmusician. Yeah, so, I'm I've
never really asked Alex any questions aboutthat. He's mentioned things about it.
It was around the time the bandwas starting, and it was a very
cool thing that he was involved in. So, uh, this will be
kind of our first chance to talkto him about what that was like.
(05:23):
I'm very excited. What do youas someone who has not listened to Lauren
on her own, what are youexcited about? Okay, So I don't
really know what to expect here.I assume it's going to be in the
R and B rap realm in termsof genre. I revisited The Fuji's The
(05:47):
Score a while back, and youknow, it's wy Clef and pros Michelle
are kind of the rappers, right, and then Lauren is like the pretty
girl singer. So I'm assuming it'sgoing to be more R and B.
But I don't know if she's gonnawrap. She wraps a little bit in
the Fuji's, but I don't knowhow. I don't know what what the
the approach is gonna be. Okay, Okay, So I think I have
(06:13):
a general idea of what it's gonnafeel like. I know The Score was
kind of a political record. Itreminded me a bit of some other early
nineties albums, like the first RageAgainst the Machine album. Some of the
themes about like black empowerment that youhear on that record, So it'll be
interesting for me to hear how Laurenaddresses topics like that if she does.
(06:38):
Okay, are you excited? I'mexcited. Yeah, I'm pretty excited.
I think that I'll like it,Okay, I hope, So, I
hope I'll like it because the lastepisode was a horrible what's the worst?
So before we jump to the nexthalf of the episode, what is your
(07:00):
experience with this album? You've indicatedthat you've heard it before, it's been
recently. No, I haven't listenedto this album since maybe the early two
thousands, and I think that I'mgiven that a little bit of a little
bit of time because came out inwhat ninety seven, ninety eight? My
(07:24):
mom used to play the album alot, so, like, I know
that I know these songs, butthis will be the first time listening to
the entire album probably since then,probably since early was there was there a
big hit, like a big singlefrom this record, because it's a huge
selling record. Yes, but Idon't think any of the tracks jogged my
memory really, Okay, So forsure, Douop was a big deal.
(07:48):
We played on Z one hundreds sometimessometimes to this day, I think I'm
not sure. I don't think XFactor was as big a hit for everyone
else as it was for me,but I think that. I know it
played on like, let's say,urban stations, and I'm trying to think
(08:13):
everything is Everything was a big songas well. I don't know how big
though, Like it's very it's relative. So it's like killing Me Softly was
on the score by the Fujis,and that's probably the song with Lauren Hill's
voice on it that literally everything everybodyelse. Yeah, and I don't think
this record has that, but Ithink this record was more successful somehow.
(08:35):
Well yeah, well Douop was probablythat record for a lot of people.
And then she covered Can't Take MyEyes off of You, which I'm sure
a lot of people have heard becauseit was like in a movie, if
I'm not mistaken. So and well, okay, that was a hidden track.
(08:56):
I remember it. Those Oh wow, what a time? What we
need to bring those back? Whatdo you think? I never liked them
because I've mentioned before I like longsongs, yeah, and I'm like ready
to settle into a long song.So if i'd see a track on a
CD that was like, oh,this is twenty five minutes. I wonder
(09:16):
what this. I did not knowthat this was going to be on here.
And then it's basically like like likea little song usually at the beginning
whatever the track that precedes it,and like twenty one minutes of silence and
then a song. So I'm justsitting there waiting like is it broken?
Do I need to return this disc? Oh? So I don't. I
(09:43):
don't think hidden tracks need to comeback. Oh okay. Can you imagine
hidden tracks with social media? Whenpeople do their first listen like the night,
then an album drops and everyone's onTwitter or x now whatever and everybody's
like yeah. It's almost like thatwould be the way to to get like
a hit if you're a major artistlike a Taylor Swift or a Beyonce,
(10:07):
and you like, maybe you wouldmake the hitden track the single because people
are gonna listen to the album andthen they're gonna be like whoa and then
social media starts buzzing. I don'tknow how you would achieve that in a
streaming situation, but the theory seemslike a good idea. I think it's
(10:30):
a good idea. Well, ifsomeone brings it back. They're gonna have
to figure out how to do it. No, they heard us talk about
it here. Yeah, okay,all right, Dibbs, Hey, okay,
So we'll be back in a fewminutes or a few seconds, depending
on the magic for podcasting. I'mexcited. Okay, so we'll be back.
Let's do it. We're back atfirst listen. We have listened to
(11:09):
The Miseducation Lauren Hill, and wehave thoughts, so many thoughts. First
of all, I can't say I'mexcited again, but I just did.
I am. I want to know, Andrew, what did you think of
this album? So this is avery good album. I do want to
rage against Apple Music a little bitmore for you. You rank an album
(11:37):
number one on a list that encompassesmusic from all genres. I'm going into
it kind of like with my armscrossed, like prove it. Let's let's
see miss Hill, and it's not. That's not the way I want to
go into listening to a record.And Apple Music did this to me.
(11:58):
But their stupid lip it's horriblest,by the way, horriblest. It didn't
make any sense. Any list thatincludes Travis Scott in any capacity is erroneous
and honestly, we don't care ifyou're a Travis Scott fan. First of
all, Andrew, I totally agree. If you're a Travis Scott fan and
you're upset with us, then youcould go suck it, because I agree,
listen to an to a real song, it's just a lot of noise.
(12:22):
That music is a mess. CanI say it's just parts? It's
not. It's this is what Ithought rock music would sound like like when
I when I listened to like aTravis Scott album, it's just to me,
it's a lot going on, likeyou just get it just doesn't work.
And that's what I originally thought rockmusic would sound like until you,
(12:46):
like, you know, you've openedmy eyes to a lot of music,
right, Okay, you know so, I'm kudos to you, Andrew,
But back to Lauren, kudos toyou Diamond for suggesting this album, and
also to I guess Apple Music andfor a weird way even though I'm cursing
them, but I don't want tohave to go into a record like,
(13:09):
Okay, this better be good oror this better be the greatest album I've
ever heard, like it's you canjust be like here's a hundred of the
greatest albums of all time and notnumber though, yes, that would have
made sense and not put dumb shitlike Travis Scott on there, which by
the way, was ranked above theEagles Hotel California. I don't think Hotel
(13:33):
California is the greatest album of alltime. I think there's like a couple
amazing songs and the rest is reallyboring. But it is better than Astra
World, oh for sure. Ialso would like to say that I didn't
think Billie Eilish's album that was onthere should have been on there. I'm
sorry, sorry, how can you? How can you even put an album
(13:54):
from like the past couple of yearson there? It's just weird. It
doesn't make any sense, right,So the Miseducation of Lauren Hill. Let's
kept back to it eventually. Okay, So what I'll start by saying is
I think the reason why this albumwas ranked so high is because she never
released anything else exactly. She didthat unplugged album with the MTV but whatever,
(14:18):
But like this album, she kindof made us miss her to the
point where like this is like theholy Grail of probably early R and B,
not early R and B but likeearly two thousands, like yeah,
yes, because I mean it wasdone so well that she honestly didn't have
(14:43):
to do anything else. It's it'sdone really well and because that's all there
is. If you're like an upand coming rapper R and B artist,
people have mentioned this album, you'veheard about it, and there's only the
one. You don't go into arecord store or in these days streaming,
(15:03):
but you know, you don't goin there and be like, which Lauren
Hill album do I buy? There'sforty five of them? Yeah, and
it's like I recognize one song onone album, none on thirty and then
a couple songs on another, Likewhat do I get? This is gonna
cost a fortune to get all ofthese and I'm not gonna have time to
listen to it. Ye. Sothe beauty of having a small body of
(15:26):
work is that the people who loveit get super familiar with it. And
so that is one hundred percent whythis album is held in such high acclaim
so many years later. It isa great album really from the intro and
through the little like classroom Vignettest andin a few other ways as well that
(15:52):
we'll get into I got such StevieWonder songs in the Key of Life vibes
from this, Yes, from actuallythe song black Man where he sort of
sets the scene in the in theclassroom scene. They're discussing different things,
certainly, but there is like acelebration type feel to the record. It's
(16:17):
not as joyful as songs in theKey of Life, but it is a
very like honest, kind of unpretentious, like reflective sort of a record.
And it sounds so good. Itdoes. It's just done so well.
Like you think about and you thinkabout the fact that this was I keep
(16:37):
saying early two thousands, but thelate nineties, And for me, I'm
trying to think of like other albumsthat you could compare this to sonically,
and I'm really I think the Fujisis one of the one of the only
ways to go for an album thatis certainly from that time period, because
(17:02):
like this, the sound of thisrecord, the production of it, this
should be what hip hop and Rand B producers are aspiring to, yes,
because there is a this beautiful mixof analog and digital and real playing
(17:22):
and samples and acoustic drums and electronicdrums, and for an album made in
this time period. There's so manyways that that could have gone wrong.
This was like early on in digitalrecording, and a lot of those early
digital records sound so bad. They'relike unlistenable. Like it's like if you
(17:48):
listen to certain records from like thesixties and fifties when it was like either
one mic in the room or likethey were limited to four tracks total for
the entire song, so like youhad vocals on one track and then like
bass and drums on one track,and then like guitar and then any other
instrument, and it was just likethere's no separation. It just sounds muddy.
(18:12):
And then with the digital stuff fromthe advent of digital recording, there's
like this tiny, like dispassionate sortof quality that a lot of that stuff
has, and especially in hip hop, where electronics have always been part of
it, Like they could have justgone that way and not put anything on
(18:33):
two inch tape and used all electronicinstruments. But I think because she had
such a reggae and soul and classicR and B influence that even on the
rap songs, she still has liveplaying and it leads to this like beautiful,
warm sound for the record. Ithink this is our tenth episode.
(19:00):
Oh and looking back on the previousones, the thing that I like maybe
the most about them mis Education ofLauryn Hill, is I think this is
maybe the easiest listen from top tobottom. Like this is the record where
there's not a huge dynamic drop offat any point, and so you can
(19:23):
just put this on and have iton yep and just let it ride.
And it's not that every song soundsthe same. Maybe every song maybe there's
a bit too maybe like tempos andthings like that are a bit too close
together. So some of the youknow, uh naming one track from another
(19:45):
I think I'm going to struggle withon this episode. But still every track
sounds good and every melody is goodand really clever and unconventional in a way.
And like with Prince, we didn'treally like the way that records sounded
overall, even though the songs weregreat. With Elton John, there's like
(20:07):
a lull with the White Stripes,that album was all over the place.
With led Zeppelin, I kind offelt like that album was all over the
place, even though I'm the biggerfan, and you disagreed, And so
I think this is like the mostconsistent from track to track, which is
really helped me get multiple listens becauseit's over an hour long. Yeah,
oh, if you're gonna put outone record, sure make it an hour
(20:32):
and ten minutes or whatever, ifthat's all you're gonna do. I think
the thing about this album is thata lot of artists that came after her
have said that they've used this aslike a blueprint or her, And I
mean whenever someone references Lauren Hill alone, I mean, this is the only
(20:52):
thing that we can reference, especiallyjust her. But I don't think any
of them have ever hit like reallyhit this or the nail on the head
when it comes to using this asa blueprint, Like nothing comes close to
this at all when you're thinking ofthat sound. I don't think anyone has
topped it. What do you think? I'm trying to think of people who
(21:15):
have said that they've used her.Beyonce said that she used her as inspiration
or this album as an inspiration withthe album four, which was like people
didn't like it because they felt likesome people wanted more R and B from
Beyonce. Some people it was verypoppy. That's the one that not single
(21:36):
ladies, I'm trying to think thebest thing I ever had, and those
songs where she's like really singing forthe first time in a really long time.
But I still think even that missedthe mark. It just it's when
you go back and you listen tothis album, you realize how good music
was at one point, and it'slike, ugh, I was thinking today
as I was kind of jumping aroundthe album trying to like refresh my memory
(21:59):
on certain songs. If you hadplayed this for me and asked me,
like, what year or what decadedo you think this is from? I
don't know that I would have beenable to answer confidently really because it it
I mean, because of the hiphop elements. You know, it's it's
(22:21):
at least from the late seventies,so you know, there's that that that
narrows it down a bit. ButI wouldn't say that this was from the
eighties. Like, it doesn't soundlike a Beyonce record sounds I think Beyonce
records, though they sound good,they'd sound digital. They sound like there's
a lot of digital stuff on there, and it doesn't sound too contemporary,
(22:48):
but it doesn't sound you know,the music that I think of from the
nineties. This isn't really the soundthat I associate with, right, So
it's very you're making a point,there's a time. There's definitely a timelessness
in that. It doesn't really tome epitomize a certain period of time.
(23:11):
Well, see, you're lucky,right, because for me, it's just
like it's one of those things that'sin my home, Like I could smell
my mom's car as a kid,like whatever the song. I mean,
this album was on repeat like forprobably at least a year and a half
at least, Andrew so your mom, your mom just picks up like one
(23:34):
album a year and then and justyou know what she would do, like
she'd buys it was a I thinkwe had both because I remember the art
worker. Her mom is a multiformata. My girl was gett pop in
Okay. So I remember the albumcover, the artwork of the album cover.
But then I also know for afact that there's a tape because I
(24:00):
remember seeing Douop on it and rememberingthat I don't know that was how you
spelled do and wop whatever. Listen, Lauren taught me a lot with this
album. We'll get into that ina second. I'm trying to look for
the track list, I like gotsidetracked and was looking at all the awards
that it won. I think it'sgreat to mention that she was the only
(24:23):
female rapper to ever win a Grammyup until I think Cardi B won in
maybe twenty nineteen. So how longwas that over? Twenty years? Right?
Because this was probably that was probablythe nineteen ninety nine Grammys that she
won, which is insane. Andthere's this iconic photo of her. People
(24:44):
have this photo of her in theirhomes of her holding like five the five
Grammys. I think it was fouror five in her hand, and it's
just like so Cute'm like, Lauren, when you think back on it,
Like you mentioned earlier, I thinkit was before we listened, you talked
about how young she was. I'mlike, I was. I looked up
her age now. I was shockedthat she's still in her forties. Yeah.
(25:06):
So then I did the math andshe was like twenty two or twenty
three when she made this album,and that was after like three with the
Fujies. Oh my gosh, Sothat's a child. Have you ever seen
sister act too? No? Okay, so she was in that movie with
Wio You go way okay, andit was I mean I always thought,
because I watched sister act probably inmy childhood, I thought that she was
(25:26):
a huge singer before she did thismovie, when actually it was the opposite.
She was like a child actor fora little bit. She did the
movie, and I think that shewas working with the Fujis at the time.
They all went to high school together, so they were doing like work.
I don't know if their first albumhad come out yet, probably because
after the movie came out and shehad so much success from that, the
(25:51):
score came out maybe a few yearslater. Listen Lauren and her or a
younger day, she was getting itpop and okay. I mean that actually
made little sense given like if shewas on this like young actor track,
that makes a little bit more senseof it. As to the output,
you know, maybe yeah, thecreative output. Yeah, I want to
(26:14):
make a like. One of thethings that really strikes me about this record
is Lauren's voice. She sounds likeshe's just one of these people who has
a natural loud a naturally loud voicethat projects very easily. Like she doesn't
seem to me like a technical likea trained singer. She may be,
(26:37):
but it's just like this voice comesout of her so easily. And the
thing that makes that so good onthis record is because when she does rap,
it doesn't it's not like flipping aswitch because her voice is so resonant.
It it still sounds harmonic. It'sstill sounds like it could be singing.
(27:00):
There's not like this big difference likewhen Beyonce raps, it's a totally
different voice. It's like a majorswitch up. Yeah, And with with
Lauren Hill, whether she's singing orrapping, it's like you don't even really
notice. So you referring to heras as a rapper, I was like,
she's not a rapper, but sheis rap. Yeah, so yeah,
of course that quality. Of courseshe's qualified. You know, I
(27:23):
have always, for some reason,and it may have been Nicki Minaj's fault,
I've always looked at her as arapper, as Lauren Hill as a
rapper, because Nicki Minaj when shefirst came out, and I mean we
know this now, she tries tosing and rap on songs and she's not
(27:44):
a good singer at all. Butshe did a song once and in it
she said that she didn't get arecord label to sign her because she wasn't
Lauren Hill. Like they told her, you're not Lauren Hill, you can't
rap and sing, and so thathas resonated. Surely Lauren Hill is the
only person in the world. Well, I think for a long time she
(28:07):
was probably the only person in theworld who could do both and make it
sound so good, who anyone wouldput money behind. Yeah, I mean
yolo. So what did you thinkabout? Do you want to talk about
specific songs that you liked or anythat you disliked? H there were none
that I disliked, Andrew, Wow, That's what I'm talking about with like
just the consistency of the vibe acrossevery track. There's some that made more
(28:33):
of an impact. Like I thinkit's interesting that there's an electric guitar solo
on the song X Factor and thenthe following track to Zion. I guess
if there was a track I didn'tlike, it would actually be to Zion?
What this track? Now that you'reediting the episodes, you're a little
(28:57):
bit concerned about your level, No, So I just think it's funny that
there's this guitar solo on X Factorand then the next track features Carlos Santana
playing not an electric guitar, Soit's the I think it's the gospely thing
that I didn't really vibe with fortto Zion. But Superstar is a really
(29:22):
cool record. The track that iskind of like rattling around in my head
is Every Ghetto, Every City,which to me, that was what made
it click for me. Like theStevie Wonder references. She I think she
literally says, I wish it isone of the lyrics. I made a
(29:45):
note of it. I that soyeah, she says, I wish those
days would never stop. Oh wow, And the Stevie Wonder lyric, and
I wish is something like I wishthose days would come back or again or
something. Oh that's what made methink of Stevie. I don't know.
I tried to look up if shesampled him, and I didn't see anything.
(30:08):
But there is a lot of orI think it's on the Lost Ones
and then for sure on Every Ghetto, every City. There's that keyboard sound
that always evokes Stevie Wonder. Listenthat sort of quacky keyboard sound. I'm
very happy that you brought that upbecause I kind of thought. Once I
looked up and looked it up andsaw that, like, I couldn't find
(30:30):
anything as far as like her evenmentioning him. I'm like, oh,
maybe I'm just making this up inmy head. So I'm so happy that
you were on the same page.I so you said there were not songs
on here that you didn't like,and I'm trying to figure out if there
are any songs on here that Ididn't like. I think I could have
(30:52):
done without the skits to be completelyOh yeah. I do think that they
tied the album together, and Iappreciate that, but I think I could
have done without them. I reallydo like Lost Ones. I loved like
that beat. It just like hmm, it kind of makes you feel like
you're like popping into your shoulder alittle bit like it. Listen ten out
(31:15):
of ten Experience X Factor, whichapparently was written about her affair with y
Cleft John. Did you know that, Oh Andrew let me put you on?
So apparently they were you know,he was married. This isn't a
secret though, So he was married. I think he still is married.
But they had an affair and sheclaimed that they were madly in love,
(31:41):
and I think he at some point, it may have been in the two
thousands, he addressed it and therewas something there, but she was madly
in love with him, and hedecided to I think his wife found out
and decided to stay with his family, and she apparently was heartbroken until she
met Bob Marley's son, Yes,who I think should get a lot of
(32:06):
credit with this album because a lotof it gives a really deep reggae sound
to me, and a lot ofit was recorded at like at Bob Marley
Studio in Jamaica and stuff. Andshe says that a lot of their family
members were a lot of his familymembers were around during this like recording,
so I think that they deserve somecredit too. But we'll get to that
(32:30):
in a second. Because I can'tbelieve that you don't you didn't like to
Zion, Well, not saying thatyou didn't like it, but I didn't
like it. It's I think theconcept of the song I don't really understand.
I guess it's like a christ story, really you think so. I
think it's like a combination of thatand maybe her her pregnancy. Yeah,
(32:52):
her first time. People said,you know, it's gonna ruin your career
and all that stuff, she stilldecided to have the baby. It's the
only song that gets a little bitpreachy, whereas like every ghetto, every
city is such an autobiographical song.And I also appreciated on another level as
someone who lived in literally that areathat she's talking about. I went to
(33:15):
college at seton Hall. Ivy Hillis basically next door, and I knew
people that lived there, people whogot robbed there, people who had totally
fine experience there. She mentions abunch of spots in Newark that I know,
(33:35):
especially artists from New Jersey. There'sa lot of them, and they
don't really rep New Jersey like that, and they certainly don't rep Newark like
that for the you know, thethe kind of cool city that it is.
I it's funny that you said thatto Zion was a little preachy,
because I thought I've always felt likeDouop was kind of preachy, especially coming
(33:59):
from someone who, like, Imean, it's kind of public about her
situations and relationships, not public publicwhere we know a whole bunch of stuff,
but we do know that, likeyou were dealing with this person,
you were dealing with that person.Whatever I think it's so funny. Like
there's one line in Duop where she'slike fake hair like Europeans and nails done
(34:20):
by Koreans. Com again, I'mlike, girl, why are you coming
for me? If I want towear a little weave and get my nails
done, okay, if I wanta little acrylic, it's okay. I
felt like that part was a littlepreachy, like I get it, Lauren,
but like piped down for a secondBabes pipe. But then the line
about the line we were talking aboutbefore we started, about shaking your ass
or something, It's like that couldbe a song that comes out today.
(34:45):
It could be, but don't youthink it's funny? Like that could be
a song about Instagram. It couldbe, But don't you think it's funny
that? Like she says this inninety seven and then like Torking comes like
yes, yes, the biggest thingever, And I'm like, yeah,
yeah, Well, you guys havebeen looking for Lauren for the past twenty
years. She tried to warn usshe's not with the shits, and so
she's taken some time. Okay.She's like, I don't want anything to
(35:07):
do with you guys right now.I do want to know when I was
listening to I know we're skipping aroundto like, you know, different songs
and stuff like that, but everythingis everything. The instrument that's being played
is that a piano? Let mesee if I could try to play it
(35:27):
for you, Andrew, because I'vealways wanted to know what this specific instrument
was. Is that like, yeahiopiano, but like multiple? Did they
stack that? How do you getit to sound like that? Yeah?
That could be multiple, That's agood observation. It also might just be
(35:50):
that there's a you know, likesome sort of effect on it. I
think it sound a little distorted.It's like a distorted piano. Describe it.
Always wanted to know what instrument thatwas because for me, I've heard
people like play I don't know whatdo you like? Play that? And
actually it sort of sounds the qualityof that distortion makes me think that it's
(36:10):
a sample. Okay, okay,all right, so let's bring in Alex.
God knows what tracks he wants totalk about, So we're gonna bring
him in right after the break,and we're back on that first listening podcast.
(36:35):
I'm Andrew and I'm Diamond, andwe're here with my good friend,
Alex Goldenthal. Sorry, I gotexcited. Thanks for joining us, Alex.
So so yeah, Alex and Ihave been in the band together for
like thirteen years now. Alex isone of the best musicians I know,
and he's so good in fact,that he taught a multi time Grammy Award
(36:59):
winning musician, Miss Lauren Hill,some guitar lessons quite a few years ago.
But Alex, you and I havenever really talked about your experience working
with her, and since today Diamondand I are talking about the miseducation of
Lauren Hill. I'd like to askyou, like, when you did start
working with her, what was shelike as a musician, What was the
(37:22):
starting point there? Well, firstof all, thank you for the kind
words. I appreciate that. Yeah, no, it was it was really
cool when we started. She definitelyshe knew how to play guitar, you
know, she knew you know,her chords and stuff. I think she
had been doing a bunch of acousticlive stuff. So like what our focus
(37:45):
was on in the beginning was likeshe just wanted to like understand more of
what she was doing. So she'ssuch a naturally gifted musician. She picked
up things very quickly, and shelike kind of intuitively knew how to play
in a lot of ways, sheknew how to make music. You're saying,
(38:07):
yes, yeah, and but Imean she had someone had clearly or
she had taught herself, like youknow, certain bar chords and stuff.
So what we focused on, likeshe wanted to know what she was playing,
like she's like, I'm playing thischord, what is that? Or
you know a lot of stuff onscales. She was always like super interested
in scales and understanding a little bitmore theory. So you know, we
(38:30):
worked on you know, basic youknow, or you know, major and
minor scales, you know, sometheory modes, intervals and stuff to kind
of connect the dots with what sheintuitively heard in her brain and was able
to play, and then understanding whatthat was. So that that's like where
(38:51):
our initial focus was. Yeah,and you were playing acoustic guitarist primarily,
Yeah, yeah, all acoustic.Yeah, she played like a cloud guitar
a lot of the time. Yeah. Well excuse me, you guys,
are you're talking about something that Idon't really know about. So I'm just
gonna cut to Alex. What songsif you remember, like, were there
(39:13):
any songs do you that you rememberthat we're on this album. I know
Andrew told you to just look atthe track list. You didn't have to
sit through the entire album like wedid three times. But like, do
you remember any of the songs fromthis album that she that you helped her
play? Yeah? Yeah, Andthat's something we got a little bit more
into towards because I probably worked withher for about a year. This was
(39:36):
like twenty fourteen or so, andshe was getting ready to do like more
acoustic shows and she wanted to beable to play you know more, so
we have been working Ones that Idefinitely know that we worked on was a
Rebel War in the Mind, XFactor, doop Ister Intentional and uh,
(40:05):
you know, the Fuji's Ready orNot, which was very exciting to me
to do that one because that's that'swhere I first never heard Miss Hill was
on you know doing you know,I remember being a kid watching the Vidi
music video for that song and likethat was the coolest thing ever. So
yeah, when we got to playthat, I was like, that was
(40:25):
like, at least for me,like, yeah, like did you fan
out? Not super hard actually becauseI didn't because he was terrified. She
has a I mean, she hasa has a very strong like presence and
energy. You can like feel it. You know, she's she you know,
(40:46):
has an aura about her. Forfor sure, she's a very commanding
presence. But when I started workingwith her, like I knew who she
was, but I wasn't listening toas much like R and B and like
you know that that kind of mixof R and B and hip hop a
little bit, So I wasn't likeI knew who she was and some of
(41:06):
her music, but I was likeso in like the metal world at the
time that like it didn't quite likephase me as much. And honestly it
was she was so cool and likejust being there. It was like even
though she has this very commanding energy, like we got along great and there
was never like really like an intimidationlike factor or anything like that. But
(41:28):
yeah, she was she was apleasure to work with. I'm sure that
she loved the fact that you werelike calm and cool, because people fan
out over this woman like past hasno patience for that. When she finally
met Nicki Minaj, after I don'tknow how many years, Nikki like got
on the floor and started like doingall this extra shit, and it's like
she probably is like, listen,I just need peace. And if you
(41:51):
guys are calm, then cool,you're invited into this aura. But oh
god, I think I would havepassed out. Yeah, no, I
mean that's that's how it felt,actually, like she you know, you
know, I can't say for sure, but just kind of coming in and
just being like a real person andtreating her, you know, like a
human being and you know, respectingwhere she's at, you know, and
(42:13):
any of the wee, any ofthe Grammys are like the platinum or Diamond
albums on display in the house Iate to my recollection. I don't believe
so. But she also had somuch like we would always be in her
living room, which is like thisbig, wide, open living room,
and she had so much cool stufflike art, you know, all sorts
(42:36):
of books, racks of clothing withlike super cool outfits and stuff. I
don't remember. So I don't rememberseeing any Grammys on display. She seems
like the type of person who likehas them in a box somewhere. She's
just like, what, so,Alex, I know you've you've talked guitar
formally a long time You've had alot of adult students too. How did
(42:57):
she compare to other like adult guitarstudents that you've had, You know,
I mean everyone's a little bit different, but she was very like she's if
she's going to do something, she'sgoing to do it one hundred percent and
like be all in. So youknow, there were times where she wanted
to get like a certain scale downand understand it and we would have run
(43:19):
that for like almost a full hour. Like it was very like she was
you know, she didn't get boredor like if she was dedicating time to
it, she was going to bedoing one hundred percent of that and be
all in and not everyone has thatlike focus or that you know, that
level of commitment. But yeah,so she was, you know, in
(43:40):
that way, like a great student. Obviously, she also had a very
busy life, so practice time,like when she had that time, it
had to be very intentional. Yeah, she was. She was a she
was a good student. Timan,do you know where, Alex, do
you know where the mized thing camefrom? No, wh why that became
her thing? I don't know why. I that's how you know, when
(44:04):
when I first started working with them, like everyone always referred to her as
miss Hill. No one ever calledher Lauren. I was told to address
her as miss Hill, and youknow, I'm gonna respect that, and
you know, so that's but Idon't know where that came from though,
I have no clue either, butI know that in just out in the
media, people will put m lH and I'm like, what is mL
(44:28):
H? And it's Miss Lauren Hill. For the longest, I had no
clue. I don't know why.I don't know. Maybe it's I don't
know. I almost like compared herto somebody else and it wouldn't have made
sense. So we're gonna just know. But I don't know. Diamond,
in one of our early episodes,compared to Elton John to DMX in a
(44:50):
part that I cut out because itwas just I was so kind of stunned
by it. I didn't react.So I was just like, I can't
just leave this in there with withneither of us addressing that. That's a
bit of a strange comparion. Butokay, Andrew is telling the story,
like, let me clarify, Okay, Alex, I don't want I don't
want you to think that I'm alunatic or the people listening. I'm so
(45:15):
what happened? Elton John released twoalbums in one year, and I don't
know. I think we were talkingabout the fact that like people don't do
that, it's crazy whatever, andI remember saying, oh, well,
DMX did the same thing in Ithink two thousand or two thousand and two,
no, like nineteen ninety eight.So I'm like, DMX did the
(45:35):
same thing. But hey, likeand I should have said yeah too,
they're great, but I didn't,and so I was just cut it out.
So this is the first time anyone'shearing about it. Do you remember
like jamming with Miss Hill, Yeah, that was that was always the coolest.
Yeah, because towards I would say, like the last few months of
us working together, she was preparingfor a bunch of shows and getting ready
(46:00):
to tour, so a lot ofwhat we did was like rehearsing, so
you know, that would sometimes beus playing together and like her strumming away
and like almost kind of like justhaving me there so that she could run
through the songs and kind of belike a sounding board. And I would
say, like selfishly, like oneof the coolest like moments would be like,
(46:21):
sometimes we'd be jamming, she wouldbe playing the chords, and in
between a verse or something, Iwould start like noodling or playing like a
lead. And sometimes she'd be likeshe's an issue issue like and I was
like, oh man, that's socool. Yeah you're like, Missille,
I'm available, you know, right, I have I I have time in
(46:42):
my schedule to tour theaters and arenaswith you if if you need me,
I've seen my entire life you'd likeme to. But yeah, no,
jamming jamming with her was awesome.And like I said, I mean,
you know, she knew she likeher songs. I didn't really you know,
like I charted them out and stuff, but she already knew how to
(47:05):
like play like play them you knowfor the like, because I think she
had already been doing some acoustic livestuff, so she knew like how to
play her songs. A lot ofit was because she wanted the vocabulary,
yeah, going over the theory andlike the vocabulary behind them. I selfishly
am this is more of like apetty question. I'm just gonna put it
out there before I even start.How many classes or lessons did she cancel?
(47:29):
Because you know, this woman is. She is known for canceling shows
after people Weish Diamond and I havea theory that the the Apple Music the
Greatest Album of All Time thing wasjust to get her to show up to
something that they were putting on.You know, there were there were some
cancelations. Like a lot of mycommunication was through her personal assistant. You
(47:52):
know, it was usually like she'dlet me know, like at least like
the day before or something. Shehad a lot going on, though,
so sometimes there was you know,she'd be in a meeting somewhere and we'd
have a schedule time and she couldn'tmake it on time. And if I
could adjust, I would, Ifnot, I wouldn't, and they would
still you know, accommodate and andyou know, pay me for my time
(48:15):
even if we couldn't end up makingit. She really wanted to learn the
guitar, and like I think thatlike in a lot of ways she wished
she wanted to be able to domore lessons than we were able to at
the same time. But we probablydid lessons for like over a year,
and we had definitely had more lessonsthan not. Did you ever think,
like, oh, I think wemight be writing a song right now.
(48:37):
No, we never worked on anythingnew. But like sometimes when I was
like waiting for her, I wouldlike just be playing my own stuff.
And there was a couple of timesshe said that, you know, stuff
was cool, like she liked whatshe was hearing. But she never started
like singing or anything. No,Well, she would sing around the house
a lot. Okay, that's yeah. She would you know, kind of
walking you know, walking around orcoming down the stairs. She would you
(48:58):
know, sing and like almost belike half singing, half warming up her
voice. Did she One of theobservations I made about the album was that,
like Lauren miss Miss Hill's voice seemsto come out of her really naturally.
Like she doesn't sound like she hasa great singing voice through training.
(49:19):
It's it's kind of like something thatshe was born with, Like it's just
naturally like loud and resident. Yeah, and she I would say that her
musical gifts are like effortless in away. And that's you know, not
to say that she doesn't work onit, because she does, but like,
yeah, she's just one of thosepeople that it's clear that they were
(49:42):
born with tremendous gifts and able toto do this, Like you know,
there was no you know, nosinging and hitting a flat note or like
you know, being off or somethinglike that. She was just you know,
always like just on point, youknow. And yeah, she's probably
(50:07):
I mean, at least I wouldsay easily like the most talented musician like
I've worked with, just in termsof just at being so natural and just
coming from like totally from her,from within her. Wow. So the
last question I really have for youis do you have any idea why she
(50:29):
hasn't put out more music as someonewho is in her house, in her
life and engaging with her musically ona semi regular But I would yeah,
I mean, obviously there's no waythat I can truly answer that. But
what I would say is that,like what I know from her is that
she is she's very intentional. Shetruly marches to her own beat, and
(50:58):
like I get the feeling that whenshe's ready to do something or she feels
like it's like worth putting out,she will. But like there's no,
she's not the type of person that'sgoing to be kind of publicly persuaded to
like release something, like she's notgoing to feel that pressure. It doesn't
matter how many people comment on herInstagram or whatever, like you need to
(51:19):
put out a record, that's that'sgoing to bounce off because she's so true
to her own art that you know, if it doesn't make sense and it
doesn't feel real and like it's notperfect for her or not perfect. I
don't know if she's like a perfectionistin that way. But if it's not,
if it doesn't have that meaning andit doesn't feel right, she's not
going to do it. That's abeautiful thing. So that's what that's would
(51:43):
be my guess. When it feelsright, she will do You think maybe
there is an album like that maybeshe just didn't put out, or that
there are songs looking on songs,Yeah, you know, we didn't.
I was never like privy to anything. She never like tested out like a
new song that didn't exist, youknow. With me, she was never
like, hey, I'm working onthis thing. No. But there was
(52:06):
times that she was going to thestudio. Oh you know, but I
don't know if that was to workon her stuff. Maybe it was to
hang out with other people that wereworking on other things. It wasn't like,
hey, miss Hill's going to workon her new record Listen, I'm
just very happy that you were here. I feel like I could tell people
(52:28):
that I know someone who helped teachLauren Hill how to play guitar. I
mean, they don't have to knowall the facts, but I'm gonna like,
yeah, I know, I knowsomeone who taught her lessons. Yeah,
you know, she just announced thetour. Do you want to go?
We should go. I mean,we don't know how long we're going
(52:49):
to be waiting for her, butit's like her the Fujis. Since you
guys like the Fujis, Come on, Alex, are you down? I
should go? Yeah? I Workingworking with her was was a pleasure and
like one of the coolest experiences I'veever had as a musician. You know.
(53:10):
I always tried to keep things likevery professional with her, you know,
but you know, yeah, there'sthere's some like cool moments that like
I'll never forget, you know,us laughing about certain things, or you
know, sometimes she would like saysome really you know, deep stuff like
we would talk a little bit aboutlife or like philosophy or you know,
(53:32):
it was you know a lot ofways, in a lot of ways surreal,
but like she's also you know,a person just like us. I
can't you know, say how enough, like just how special you know that
was? But yeah, I'll alwaysI kind of you know, I wish
I remember some of Like I wishI had like a quote that she like
(53:52):
gave me or something like that,But it was more just like the energy
and like the experience of like youknow, just connecting with her and uh,
you know, being able to sharethat. I love that. I
love that. Well, thank you, Alex, we really appreciate it.
Yeah, no problem, Thank youfor having me on, and thanks for
bearing with us as we figured outhow to make this happen. Am I
(54:15):
the first Zoom person for you?The first successful Zoom guest? Yeah?
Yeah. The other Zoom guest waswas actually Nile Rogers, but we we
kind of fucked up an element ofthat, a pretty key element, so
we don't have video from it.But okay, well, I'm glad I
was able to be the first successfulone and give me a thank you thanks
(54:37):
for having me on. All right, see, I'll talk to you soon.
Sounds good. Nice to meet you. Nice by. Can I just
say, while we're still recording,did you record the video to that?
Nope? No, I didn't.I looked up as we were wrapping up.
I was like, ash ship,I just mentioned, like when you
(55:00):
said it. I looked over inthe corner and I realized it didn't say.
This meeting is being recorded, allright? When we come back,
we will talk about the next episodeof that First Listen and we're back.
(55:24):
What a good episode. That endingis probably the best thing on the planet
Andrew ten out of ten experience,if you ask me. And I just
literally I am laughing in my headright now. I'm trying to compose myself
because I feel like you'll be like, oh, time out. But that
(55:47):
was that was the laugh I neededfor today, the laugh I needed.
Thank you so much for that.It's been a week keep I keep waiting
for things to slow down, andthat's just not happening. Okay, Well
maybe no, I was gonna saysomething that won't work out anyway. What
(56:12):
do the people have in store forthem for next week's episode? I would
like to do a little retrospective sortof. We've listened to actually eleven albums,
ten official episodes. Eleven albums seemslike a good point to reflect on
the at First Listen podcast so far, so let's take a week or so
(56:37):
to think about the new music thatwe've learned about the past few months,
What is sticking around in our lives. What are we going back to just
as a reflex, not because wehave to do it for the show.
Yeah, and let's just talk aboutsome of our takeaways from these first ten
(56:58):
episodes. We covered a lot ofa lot of random, wild stuff records
from the seventies, eighties, nineties, early two thousands, and today New
York's Best Variety. Some might say, I'm very excited for this, but
now I have to go back andlike really dig through my recently played to
(57:22):
really figure out what I'm still listeningto. You know, Yeah, let's
take an analytical tact. So whatare we playing with that thinking about it
and then also thinking back to theseepisodes, what are we like, Hey,
why why am I not listening tothis song or this record? More?
I know there's a bunch that SteveWonder record was so long it was
(57:45):
that we probably both want to goback to some songs that like, you
totally shut down on a few songsthat were like you like this one,
I don't even remember it, yep, yep, And I was like,
this is the greatest song on theright. I'm I'm thinking it feels like
we talked about Purple Rain a yearago. Oh yeah, I may have
(58:05):
to force myself to revisit at leasta few songs on that album because I
did. I didn't. We'll pick, We'll go through the little buffet of
music and just get get a newfound appreciation. Okay, I am very
excited to go back to the WhiteStripes album. Interesting. Yeah, yeah,
(58:29):
yeah, That's what I'm thinking about. And the irony of that episode
remains that I am not going togo back to that one. Yeah,
I love that. Well, I'mexcited. So I'll see you here next
week. Who knows? Jinx Oh, okay, who knows. So next
(58:53):
episode we're going to look back atall the episodes, and maybe this is
the episode that people get into becausethey're like, I want ten albums of
recommendations. I want the broad strokesof the show. Where are the major
takeaways of five months? Oh really, I don't think it's that many.
(59:13):
Maybe four maybe four four of fourmonths, four full months of podcasts and
music, and then after that we'llget into like the second half of the
year of our first year as ashow. I'm so excited. Who knows,
who knows where that's going to takeus? Oh my gosh, I
hope it takes me to nineties Rand B at some point, some point,
(59:37):
because I don't think Lauren Hill countit as like nineties R and B.
Sure, it's like more two thousandsto me. I mean we didn't
mention the D'Angelo feature on the record, Oh my gosh. And I mean,
who's more nineties R and B thanD'Angel I know, Ah, I
can see the picture of him,D'Angelo and like Brian McKnight. Oh,
(01:00:00):
don't get me started on Brian McKnight. He's canceled. Now, he's canceled,
is he? I mean, like, has formed a whole new family
and doesn't care about his older children. It's sick. It's sick. But
yolo to him. I guess Iguess he's canceled. Yeah, I don't
know. Yeah. For me,he's just privately canceled. Started back at
(01:00:21):
one. That's exactly what he did. I don't like these kids. I'm
starting all over again. That's exactlywhat he did. Whatever. At least
he's consistent, all right. Ithink this has been a show. This
has been a show, Thanks forlistening. We'll be back next time with
that first listen. Connect with uson Instagram. You know we have we
have nothing after this, so suggestan album that we should check out.
(01:00:42):
So say just a guest we shouldhave on Hey, what all we can
do is try I first listened podcaston Instagram. Thank you, Bye bye w
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