April 4, 2024 • 55 mins
Rock and Roll Hall of Famer and Songwriters Hall of Famer Nile Rodgers is our inaugural guest on the At First Listen podcast!
On this episode, Andrew and Diamond dive into Chic's 1978 sophomore album, C'est Chic, with Nile himself as their guide. Nile offers recollections from creating legendary hits like "Le Freak," "I Want Your Love," "Chic Cheer" and others, as well as memories of his close relationship with fellow Chic co-founder and producer late-bassist Bernard Edwards, as well as music icons Jimi Hendrix and Prince.
Nile is arguably the most successful record producer in music history, and his fingerprints are all over generations of music from the 1970s to present day. He's been so successful that his favorite white Fender Stratocaster earned the name Hitmaker, and he still uses the guitar to this day.
Chic is one of the best-selling musical acts of the '70s, with grooves and melodies that have taken on new life in hip-hop and R&B, and as a producer Nile has created countless hits, including records by Sister Sledge, Diana Ross, David Bowie, Madonna, Duran Duran, Daft Punk, Daddy Yankee, LE SSERAFIM, Beyoncé and many others.
Listen and let us know who should be on the show next!
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listen!
(Episode 4.)
On this episode, Andrew and Diamond dive into Chic's 1978 sophomore album, C'est Chic, with Nile himself as their guide. Nile offers recollections from creating legendary hits like "Le Freak," "I Want Your Love," "Chic Cheer" and others, as well as memories of his close relationship with fellow Chic co-founder and producer late-bassist Bernard Edwards, as well as music icons Jimi Hendrix and Prince.
Nile is arguably the most successful record producer in music history, and his fingerprints are all over generations of music from the 1970s to present day. He's been so successful that his favorite white Fender Stratocaster earned the name Hitmaker, and he still uses the guitar to this day.
Chic is one of the best-selling musical acts of the '70s, with grooves and melodies that have taken on new life in hip-hop and R&B, and as a producer Nile has created countless hits, including records by Sister Sledge, Diana Ross, David Bowie, Madonna, Duran Duran, Daft Punk, Daddy Yankee, LE SSERAFIM, Beyoncé and many others.
Listen and let us know who should be on the show next!
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listen!
(Episode 4.)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Hi guys, Welcome back to anotherepisode I have okay, sorry, I'm
excited. This is an exciting one. This is our first guest in the
podcast speed kind of a big deal, not even kind of not even a
little bit of a big deal.Nile Rogers, co founder of the band
(00:37):
Chic and a author, co author, producer on basically all of the top
forty hits from the last forty fiveyears. Noil Rogers is on the at
First Listen podcast with You Diamond andAndrew Yes. First of all, have
you listened to the full album fromstart to finish before? So never before.
(01:03):
This was pretty funny because the firstvoice that you hear once we make
the jump to the Nile portion ofthe episode is going to be Nile kind
of ribbing us a little bit onthe fact that we chose one of the
best selling albums of all time fora show of music that we've never heard
(01:23):
before. So we got along greatwith him. Obviously, Nile is in
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, He's in the Songwriters Hall of Fame.
He's probably in so many halls offame that he would not be able
to recall them all. And ofcourse, his latest adventure was into Yonce
(01:45):
Land with Beyonce, So of courseI had to ask questions about that,
because I mean, ten out often experience across the board, I'm guessing,
but I'm just really excited for everyoneto hear this and for us to
be able to walk away from thisand say that we interview Nile Rogers twice,
me once. Okay, great,Yeah, So the focus of the
episode is going to be on Chik'ssecond studio album, Say Chic. This
(02:08):
is the album with Chic cheer onit, like Freak, I Want Your
Love. It's kind of there's liketoo many hits on this album, and
then all of those hits have beensampled and used on other hits in the
decades that came after, so it'spretty wild. We got sidetracked right away
(02:34):
into talking about Jimmy Hendrix. Ihad no idea that Nile Rogers knew Jimmy
Hendrix personally. Towards the end ofit, we talk a bit about Prince
and then Diamond asked a great questionabout where the idea for the song like
Freak comes from, and I wantedto mention that because we didn't set we
(02:57):
didn't set up that we were talkingabout that you just asked the question,
and it's not till we get apretty deep into that story that it's apparent
what song Nile is talking about.So towards the end of the interview,
that's that's what we're going on aboutthere, Diamond. You were just kind
of cheezing for the first few minutes. I mean, when you're in the
(03:17):
presence, I wish we had videofor this. You were just like it's
one of those things that like you'rejust sitting there and you're like, I
just remember thinking to myself, likeI've listened to you growing up so much
that like, I know, Idon't know you, but it's like,
wow, I'm just so happy,like we're friends in my head, you
know what I mean. And hewas nice, so it made me feel
like we are maybe friends. Youknow, Yeah, I feel that way
(03:39):
too. You can make like sucha long playlist of just songs that sample
and revolve around chic loops. Wegot into it a little bit with Nile
about how he felt about that earlthat like first wave of hip hop,
and his answers were really interesting.He did not get it at all initially,
(04:03):
so he talks about having a lotof issues with early hip hop and
then what made him come around,which was a conversation with the Shockley brothers
where they kind of explained that alot of it came down to just the
education that was available to them,like they didn't have the opportunity to learn
a musical instrument like Niall did,or like some of his collaborators through the
(04:26):
years did. And he sort ofcame full circle on momenty more problems by
Biggie when he heard the layers ofsampling and how they created completely new and
original musical ideas. And then hisprint story. Oh man, we got
to leave that for him to telland for you to I don't even need
(04:46):
you to go into it, becauseI want them to be shocked jaw to
the floor. If anyone listened toour first episode, some of the questions
that we asked about prints and thingsthat we would want to know about what
it was like to be around Prince. Nile was a personal friend of Prince
for something like thirty years, sohe answers in a way one or two
(05:12):
of those questions coming up after thebreak, Nile rogers and say chic and
a whole lot of stuff about hisguitar playing and his legacy in music.
I'm so excited. Okay, Anddon't forget guys, I mean dm us
comment like subscribe all that stuff,because we need to know how you feel
(05:34):
about this. I need to makesure that you're just as excited as I
am, because I mean buzzin'.So you need to tell me, honestly,
(05:56):
you have never heard say Sheik.So we've done this couple of times
already. I don't want to cutyou off time. So the first one
we the first album we did forthe show was Purple Rain, And of
course we've all heard songs from PurpleRain, but listening to the album in
sequence is a bit of a differentexperience. And when we're talking about older
(06:17):
records sometimes I think there's like athere's some context that's lost by just listening
to the singles and the hits.So this was say Chik front to back
several times. Okay, cool,now I get it. Okay, Yes,
I like that you asked the questionbecause I could see how that might
(06:39):
insult you a little bit. Andalso, honestly, it's like impossible that
someone couldn't have heard this this musicbefore. Oh you got it? Told
you you took it only wrong.It didn't insult me. I just was
thinking, like, so where doyou live? Yeah, exactly, like
under right? Yeah. Well no, I'm just saying that we at least
(07:01):
we have one song on that recordthat's the biggest selling single in the history
of Atlantic records. Like bigger thanBruno Mars, but bigger. But Diamond
and I are new to to PlanetEarth, so so we might have missed
it. Okay, So let's startwith this awesome Voodoo Child Slight Return video
(07:25):
you did with Fender, with MatteaSosado and Tyler Bryant and so many great
players. It's nice that you youled that sort of jam, and it's
a style of guitar playing that isnot really associated with you. I wonder
had you ever performed that song before? No I. And what's really interesting
(07:47):
is that not only had I neverplayed Voodoo Child, which is funny because
I was a super Hendricks fan,but I actually tuned down to E flat
like Stevie Ray Vaughan. And Iguess they say Jimmy did. I'm not
really sure. Even though I knewJimmy, I never questioned, you know,
(08:07):
what he tuned down or not?Just like when I played with Stevie.
He just came in and played.So it was only later that when
we became friends. I said,man, you have such a nice stone
and he says, well, yeah, you know, I tuned down a
half step. So I this isthe first time I've ever tuned down a
half step and play. And didyou did you play that on the original
(08:28):
hit Maker or is that one ofthe replicas? Okay, wow, the
hit Maker the real thing? Soyou were friend you knew Jimmy Hendrix personally?
Oh yeah, totally. I thoughtthat would have been a little before
your time. No, I'm dude, I'm seventy one and a half years
old. Okay. I The recordingstudio that Jimmy built that he called Electric
(08:54):
Ladyland used to be a nightclub calledGeneration in my band, the Gig at
Generation. So what was work fora living? I've always worked. I
didn't know we went back this farwith Jimmy Hendrix. That's incredible. Jimmy
used to come and hang out withus at a spot that we used to
(09:16):
eat at every day called Blimpy's inNew York. Are you guys New York?
Where are you from? Where areyou at I'm from New Jersey,
so you're New Yorkers, New Yorkbased. Ye. Yeah, we're on
West fifty fifth Street right now.Oh dude, come on that. You
got to really be embarrassed. Yeah. So I'm glad we're talking about Jimmy.
I'm glad you actually knew him personally. This is something I've wrestled with
(09:39):
in terms of the future of theshow. Is what Jimmy Hendrix album should
I have Diamond listen to? Whatwould you recommend for her? Do you
think it's really interesting? Because Isaid, I am so damn old dinosaurs
walk the earth when I was akid, So probably the easiest for one
(10:05):
to digest would be a little bitafter the unless unless she drops acid.
I mean not anytime soon, butmaybe Okay, I would say a band
of Gypsy's recorded at the filmore easy. That's exactly what I was thinking.
(10:26):
That's my favorite record of Jimmy's.It's it's a little bit more R and
B and song orient than the earlierrecords, even though I have to say
my personal favorite is the second album, Access Bold as Love. I just
think it's a genius, masterpiece,incredible that has a lot of the more
(10:50):
pop song sort of writing that hewas doing. Yeah, but also the
psychedelia and the great lyric writing,which I thought it was incredible. I
mean it actually used to make mesit down and contemplate my own life.
It was pretty deep for me.I think I was around sixteen or seventeen.
(11:11):
That's interesting. My favorite studio albumof his is actually Electric Ladyland,
which the studio is named for,But the band of Gypsy's is my favorite
Hendricks. Yeah, it's pretty greatrelease. Yeah. He the interplay with
that with that band is just incredibleto me. Yeah, they were phenomenal,
(11:35):
really phenomenal. Hendrix spoke to me, you know, as as as
an artist and a person for meto sort of really idolize one. He
was really anti establishment, which I'mmarching in that parade all day long.
(11:56):
It was the time of the blackpower movement, Women's rights movement, gay
power, you know, just everything, just all of these movements along with
the anti Vietnam movement that we allfelt like we were this gigantic group of
like minded people that wanted just abetter, more peaceful world. So an
(12:22):
artist like Hendrix really spoke to memore so than just you know, the
artists talking about you know, youknow blues and yeah, I'm gonna shoot
my mother's lover or whatever whatever theywere talking about. But you know,
all right, I asked a bunchof questions in a row, Diamond,
get in here. I'm ready,okay, Because if there's one thing that
(12:46):
this process of this podcast has taughtme in the short month or two that
we've been doing, it is thatI like to listen to music, but
I don't know much about what I'mlistening to. If that makes sense,
is a consumer who loves a goodbeat and never really thought more, never
really thought more about it besides justwhat I'm listening to in that moment.
(13:09):
I have favorites, which this processhas taught me is really based off of
nostalgic reasons and stuff like that,not necessarily because of the way things are
played and like what instruments. Instrumentsare being used. Andrew has taught me
that I'm like, oh my god, this is like going over my head.
But this album showed me that Iliterally no music and just don't realize
(13:35):
it. Does that make sense toyou guys? Like that makes like,
Okay, listen, I want yourlove. I hate to jump around we're
supposed to go in the track list, and I listen, we're starting side
to Okay, we can start fromthe top. I already said, I
clearly am a nostalgic listener because whenI got to this song, I stantley
(14:00):
was taken back to my aunt anduncle's kitchen and them dancing to it.
And I'm just a little kid likeBob in my head, like know this
song but didn't realize it. It'sinsane to me that, like I could
be almost thirty and consume all thismusic without it really like clicking in this
head of mine. It's almost likea chemical reaction. But the first song
(14:22):
on the album, she'd cheer assoon as I heard it. I'm pretty
sure you know where it took me, but Faith Evans, and I'm like,
it's actually pretty extraordinary to me.This last Christmas season, Ryan Teddor
did a new version of it forlike a target or something. Oh yeah,
(14:46):
no, I heard that. Iremember, I know what you're talking
about. I wrote him and Isaid, Ryan, I gotta tell you
it's really killing. He said,hey, man, you know I couldn't
let you down. You know,Fat and Scoop that same song. I
mean, I you know, honestly, when we wrote that, my partner
(15:09):
Bernard Edwards, and myself when wewrote that, we were only thinking about
she We were only thinking about makingan album. And our albums have a
certain formula, and I'll give youthis simple formula. Every single Chic album
is based on this, this fundamentalconcept that we're a brand new band.
(15:35):
Nobody knows who we are, andyou're hearing our music for the first time,
so we have to tell you whowe are. Do do Chic Chic?
Do she? Give me a csee, give me an age,
give me an eye, give mea see if you know what I mean.
That's why we wrote that song.And uh and and then we you
(15:56):
know, we have what we feelwill be a couple of hits based on
the current zeitgeist. And then wethen try and oh, we also have
an instrumental. We also have aballad, and we also have something that
we think might influence the future becausewe're starting to hear what's bubbling under.
(16:22):
So say Sheikh is a perfect exampleof that kind of album. We had
a song called happy Man on it, which was sort of semi reggae bass.
We had I Want Your Love,which we knew was a hit,
but I wrote I Want Your Love. I wrote that song because I am
a super fan of McCoy tyner JohnColtrane's pianos, most famous for playing with
(16:45):
John Coltrane, And when I wroteI Want Your Love, I wrote it
as if I were playing the piano, and I actually may have even written
it on piano, I don't quiteremember, but when I played it.
The other big influence were sequencers,and we didn't know that there was something
(17:07):
called the sequencer. We actually thoughtpeople could play like that. So I
just I just kept practicing, practice, practice, practice, practice, and
I was practicing like crazy. Andreally the person that I was trying to
(17:29):
copy was Giorgio Moroda, who wasdoing Donna Summer records. And I remember
when I finally met Giorgio, hadto be decades later. I said,
hey, Georgio, you know thatI could play the songs from your album,
which were all heavily sequenced, andI was playing like He's like on
no guitar player and play and Isaid, yeah, I can play it.
(17:51):
Because I was practicing, I gotit down. So I Want Your
Love was an homage to that styleof percussive music percussive chortal music, which
I actually thought a person was playingjokes on me. But thank god I
did that because I learned how todo something that is not part of normal
(18:15):
guitar playing. Really. You know, now you hear guys like Cory Wang
who burned down, but at thetime when I did that, you never
heard any guitar player play that.And that was because I was imitating something.
It's funny. It's just like Diamondsaid, I didn't know what that
was that was doing that, butI tried to do it on the thing
(18:37):
that I played. I think thatshows a little bit of like how hard
you were working also at the timethat you weren't aware of stuff that was
kind of maybe a little bit justa little bit outside of your purview at
the time because you were You're alreadyproducing other people's records by this point,
weren't you correct? Correct? Butthe thing is is that when you're an
(19:00):
old school musician, we take alot of pride in being able to keep
the groove. Like you know,you go to chic records, we don't
play the click tracks or anything likethat. We stay in the pocket right
from the jump. You go lookat any of our live videos. Anything,
we count it off and that's whatwe are. I go, what
(19:23):
do Yeah, that's that's something thatthat really also struck me about the record
as a whole is you know youdo on this album what what no band
would do today where it's live,playing the whole time, and you let
some parts really breathe, you letthe breakdown go and go and go,
(19:47):
and you know, at best anartist now would get a good take and
then loop it a few times andthen that's how they would finish the track.
But but you were really just youjust play till I guess you you
thought, Okay, that's good,that's it. So yeah, basically the
(20:07):
way that chic sessions work is everybody'sgot charts and we read through the basic
chart and then at the end wecan either go as long as we want
because we finished the song and nowwe just keep jamming. Happy Man is
a perfect example. Or as MarkRonson put it, which is one of
(20:30):
my favorite things of all time.He said, when I first heard of
the Freak, I was like soexcited. It was like, wow,
oh freak out. I love it, went to the store and bought it.
You know, he's English, sohe said, I was waiting for
the middle eight, and he says, that's what they call the bridge.
Gotcha. Yeah, So the middleeight and he went and then it turned
into a middle sixteen, and itturned into a middle thirty two. No
(20:53):
records do that. Well, wejust now freak doo doo doo doo doo
doo doo doo doo doo doo dodo and we just play and playing play.
I said, freak do no,no, no, no, freak
do do do do too proud,and we just jammed through it. And
and the reason why we did thatis because as live musicians, I used
(21:18):
to be in the house band atthe Apollo Theater. If artists had only
one or maybe two hit records,they would still get booked for a show.
And the way that you would makeyour show interesting is you would break
down, and you would do abreakdown and then you would talk to the
audience. So like one of myfirst gigs was with Betty Wright, and
(21:41):
she had a song called clean UpWoman, but she only wound up having
you know, like two hits orsomething, so we would be playing Danke
Dankedank Gang Damn Danked. After shesings the song you know, she looked
at the band we break down thedump, and she would say, nah,
(22:02):
I know there's some clean up womenout there, but you know,
there's a lot of clean up men. And then she'd be talking stuff and
she would keep the audience engaged overthat long breakdown, and then different instruments
would start to come in. Thatbecame the Chik formula. So I didn't
(22:22):
have a record deal when I wasplaying with Betty Wright. But when I
got a record deal, I said, damn, why don't we put on
records what we used to do live. So if you listen to I'm trying
to think of the first time Iplayed an album where the single wasn't seven
or eight minutes long. It hadto be like probably maybe my tenth or
(22:48):
eleventh album. I mean, everyrecord I did be it. You know,
Chicic's is a sledge chic cheek cheekcheek. David Bowie in excess,
uh, Duranda ran everything. Thesingle. I mean, go and listen
to the single Let's Dance. It'slong. I mean, I mean,
(23:11):
you know, see the album albumversion is edited down, just like the
Freak. The single is edited down, but on the album, like Mark
Ronson said, it's it's long.One of the things everybody it was like
that. Yeah, one of thethings we were wondering is if kind of
vamping in those middle sections, ifthat was maybe for the the DJs and
(23:32):
for the clubs that were just spendingthe record, or for some of like
the hip hop guys who are samplingit. Absolutely there were it was dual
purpose. Uh, maybe even tryphasing. So let me take you back in
history. There was a time peopleloved to listen to just music, have
to sing. You didn't have totalk about your Cadillac or your Lamborghini,
(23:56):
or your you know, or yourfly Prada. You didn't have to do
that. You could just play musicand people would vibe to the music and
the groove. So we knew thatpeople seemed to like our music and our
grooving. And the twelve inch recordwas a new platform, so we wanted
(24:18):
to appeal to that platform. Andwe didn't want to put a four inch
you know, like a four minutesong on a twelve inch record, So
we cut the songs long so thatover that you know, long experience,
you'd actually get a full arrangement,and each section was interesting, you know,
(24:38):
sometimes we just vamped and they felta little bit long after the fact.
But if you were in those days, if you went to a club
and the DJ happened to build anaudience around the song happy Man, it
didn't feel long. Now to me, he feels even long to me,
I'm like, on, dude,we should have stopped at it. Well,
(25:00):
we stop that vamp out a littleearlier. How do you feel about
the fact that songs are so shortthese days? Like we're listening to songs
that literally can't go past three minutes, Like how did he make that?
Too? Well? Like, howdo you feel about that? Going from
such long form songs and vibing outto now it's seeming like for me,
(25:22):
a lot of songs aren't long enough. Yeah, they're two minutes and change.
Yeah. I always respect wherever weare in history, because there's a
reason why songs are two minutes inchange or just barely over three minutes,
just like it used to be whenI first started. So, when I
first started, records were three minutesand change, and every now and then
(25:44):
you get a longer record, andevery now and then you get a longer
record. That was a hit becausetypically the radio stations you know was selling
advertising time, and if your songwas too long, even if it were
really good song, they would getturned off in the program director wouldn't even
add it. So sometimes you'd haveto be a star to just have a
(26:08):
record that approached four minutes. Soyou know, there are a lot of
things that control that, and Ithink that for myself as a musician,
I like to be able to staymalleable and just bend with the times.
(26:30):
Like I don't have any problem writinga two and a half minute song now,
I feel perfectly fine. I didmy first couple of K pop records
and I got a big, big, big, gigantic hit. I mean,
I'm like going wow, like reallywe sold ten million in Japan.
Holy, I'm like wow. Itwas my first shot at it, so
(26:55):
I you know, and I understoodwhat the parameters were, and you know,
thank god the other producer who wasthere to say to me, you
know, dude, no we can'tdo a twelve Speaking of like huge hits,
Andrew knows this. I am ahuge Beyonce fan. I just want
to know how it was working oncofet with her, and if she just
(27:21):
gave you free reign to do whatyou wanted to do because I don't see
her trying to boss not Rogers around. Yeah. It's funny, you know.
Now I believe I'm going to actlike I'm no Straudamus and I can
predict the future. Yeah. Soit was wonderful, and I have to
(27:44):
say it was the most relaxed thatI've ever been because the only instruction I
got was Ben Rogers. Wow.Wow. Really. So she allowed me
to h play whatever part I wasplaying, and then instinctively I felt that
(28:07):
when she gets to what I feltwas the chorus, because of my harmonic
knowledge and my approach to guitar playing, I was able to play the inversions
up an octave and make it feela little bit brighter when we get to
that part, and then come backdown when she goes to the A part
(28:29):
instead. I mean like, Iturned in my part and it was like,
okay, done. It was likeso I called him Dream and I
said, you know, I'm liketrying to get some critique. I'm like,
I called Dream and I said,Dream, you do realize that I
switched and went up an octavet Hewas like, yeah, man, that
was dope, Okay, cool.I love that. I love that do
(28:52):
you want to go because I canask more questions like I do want to
know? Happy Man was a trackon this album that I was not not
one hundred percent sure that I wasfamiliar with it. You know, sometimes
like Diamond is saying, we've heardthese records on other people's records as samples
(29:15):
for so long. But happy Man, you know, I'm mostly a bass
player now than a guitar player.I get about thirty seconds into that song
and I said, I got toget a bass in my hand, and
I got to figure out how Bernardis doing this and singing it. What
do you remember about putting that onetogether? And also can you talk a
(29:36):
little bit about your partner Bernard andwhat made him such a great compliment to
you. So Bernard was the greatestleveling tool that has ever entered my life.
Because of my jazz background, Iinstinctively overwrite when I i'm up with
(30:00):
a song, And the way thatBernard and I wrote together was whoever came
up with the idea first. Theother partner would then play their part identical
and would just copy their part.So that's our second album. But the
very first song I ever wrote forShe was called Everybody Dance. And when
(30:25):
I wrote Everybody Dance, I waschucking. I was playing this really cool
chucking part. And Bernard came intothe studio and because I was chucking,
he started chucking. So he startedgoing he was copying me exactly, and
I was like, going, waita minute, both of us doing this
ain't gonna work. But if Ilet you do it, and then I
(30:48):
just play, you know, don'tdon't don't. No, no, no,
no, no down, don't don't, and Bernard is just killing me.
So what most people don't know aboutBernard's history is that he started out
as a guitar player. And whathappened is he was in a band and
(31:11):
I'm not going to name any namesbecause the people actually are named, and
he was in a band that wasmanaged by gangsters, and they had two
guitar players and the leader of theband was a bass player. When the
bass player went to the gangster andasked for their money, the guy broke
(31:33):
his thumbs and so now Bernard hadto play bass while the guy, the
leader, continued to be the leadsinger. So Bernard, with his guitar
style, started playing the bass.But he knew that the bass didn't sound
right with him playing with a pig, so he started using this incredible technique
(31:57):
where he plays with his fingers andswitched back and forth to playing with his
forefinger and the middle finger or thethumb, which is I've never seen any
bass player in the world do that, and he was just instinctive with him.
That's his fingers playing boom, dodo do Do Do do, And
(32:21):
that's why those dynamics are so likeamazing when he's playing that bit. It
used to be one of our favoritelive moments, was vamping out to a
live audience and having Bernard go offunhappy man and everybody dance. As I
said, there used to be atime when people like to hear bands just
(32:42):
play music. I love that.Yeah, that's not gonna make it any
easier for me to figure out whathe's doing, but thank you. Yes,
here's my biggest question that I'm likenervous to ask because my heart might
get broken. Are there any artiststhat have requested to sample that you've denied
(33:08):
only a handful, because at firstI thought it was a little bit weird
because a lot of the samples theywere just taking my stuff and not clearing
it. And when the Shock Brothersexplained to me that, they said,
now do you think that we'd bedoing this if we had your educational background?
(33:29):
They said they stopped teaching music inschools in New York City. He
says, you know, when theystart cutting the budget, the first thing
that goes are the arts, Andyou know, like, I'm not going
really because I grew up in astandardized curriculum. So even though we lived
in the ghetto, I could,you know, be in the poorest neighborhood
(33:52):
in New York and the poorest neighborhoodin Los Angeles, and we were learning
exactly the same thing as the kidsin the richest neighborhoods. So when people
were sampling and I kept saying,wait a minute, guys. You know
like when rappers the light came out, I was like, oh, wait
a minute, whoaoaoa, whoa.Don't you understand it took me years to
learn how to write like that.It took all that money for me to
(34:12):
hire half of the New York Phillamounting Sure the play. It took me
hiring Bob clear Mountain and the powerstation and having Bernard Edwards and Tony Thompson
and you know, and Raymond andall these great people on this record.
And meanwhile, you can just comein and go I'm like whoa, hey,
whoa and put it on your record, like damn, I cast you
(34:34):
whatever the record called, and youprobably stole the record. You're gonna steal
my lick. You might almost stealthe record. So you know, we
we threatened the lawsuit with sugar HillGang and we set it out of court.
And then as I started dealing withmore hip hop producers and eventually wound
up on a panel with the Shockles, and then we had a rap and
(35:00):
I was like, oh man,I really get it now, So I
respect your art form. I understandthat, you know, your musical education
comes from being around music and appreciatingit and then now having the ability to
go take it and say I likethis, I think that beat goes with
that. And Public Enemy were thefirst people that I would hear do this
(35:23):
sort of compound sampling, like taketwo or three records at a time and
make it where I was like,damn, that's really clever. And then
then people started doing it with mysongs. You know, you you would
hear I don't know who would theywant from me, looks like the more
(35:43):
money. At the same time,Diana Ross is singing, uh comment out
there, the more money they see. Ah, I'm like going, damn,
that's incredible that you guys could thinkof that. So I wound up
getting a very open mind. That'sa long winded way of saying that I
(36:05):
do not tell any artists what theycould do. The only time that I've
ever turned down a sample was whensomeone took we Are Family and they wanted
to change the hook lyrics. Andthe reason why I did that it was
one of the girls from Sister Sledge, and I was like, whoaha,
(36:28):
whoa wa, whoa, whoa,Wait a minute, you don't know what
you're doing. This is what madeyou famous. If you change the lyrics.
I can change the lyrics to youknow, we are Family. But
if you change the lyrics to weare family, all of a sudden,
I guarantee you your audience is goingto look at you and go, whoa,
what's happening here? I mean,you got a piece of platinum right
(36:51):
there in your hands, and I'mjust stopping you from making a big mistake.
So that's the only person I've everturned down. So it's for their
own good. Well, it's justthat. Look. I was doing a
gig with Paul Simon once and fiveminutes before we going out on stage,
he says, you know, Inever really like the bridge to this song.
Let's change it. I said,Paul, hundred thousand people out there,
(37:15):
they're gonna be singing the bridge.You can't change the lyrics. Now.
Only Bob Dylan can do that,and people don't like it when he
does it the show. No,don't do that. But you gotta be
crazy, like people will say,oh, that black dude probably told him
to do it. Yeah, they'regonna blame it on me. They're not
gonna blame it on you. Wementioned Prince at the top, and we're
(37:50):
both super curious because we know thatyou were you were friendly with him.
Yeah, I found the story thatyou told on a podcast. Asked about
how Prince did you up at agig on New Year's Eve. He said
he was going to play Let's Danceand you introduced him and he in front
of the twenty thousand people, andhe just never showed up. We talked
(38:13):
a little bit about this on Okaythat episode. Wait a minute, okay,
Okay, he did not run fromtwenty thousand people. He ran away
from a few hundred people. Okay, and what I'm sure it feels the
same. But when you're when you'reout there, Prince, Well, what
was particularly embarrassing about that was thatpeople that I had known for years were
(38:38):
there. So John bon Jovi wasthere. John bon Jovi started working like
at the studio that I worked at. I mean, he used to clean
up my room. You know.It's like, so I've watched this guy
from the beginning of his career becomejovie. So he was there at the
show, and you know, andother famous people were there, and I
(39:00):
was like, wow, they getto see me play with Prince tonight.
So I said, lady, comeand Prince, and the Prince not only
does he sneak off, he runsoff. Did you see him turn his
back to you and scamper off?No, people told me, because I
was engaging in the audience. Peopletold me that he took off. And
(39:20):
then at the end of the nighthe came and he just sat down and
was hanging with me. Okay,I don't even I don't even think I
remembered asking him why didn't show up. I was just going well, I
would never make that mistake again.So fast forward to about another year later,
he asked us to guest star atthe Essence Festival. Now we're talking
(39:45):
seventy thousand, so that's where thebig number comes in. Right, We're
playing at the Superdome, and Ithink that the capacity is something like that.
It's fifty thousand. It's huge,huge. So now, Princess,
okay, I'm gonna come out andplay Let's Dance with you. And I'm
like, going, dude, you'renot gonna no, no, no,
(40:06):
no on me tonight. So weget out there and we're playing Let's Dance
and we go jump jump jump jump, and that's that's sort of like a
little thing we do in the middleof Let's Dance when when we're playing the
breakdown section and then all of asudden, the crowd lets out the blood
curdling scream and I'm like, going, damn, we're just jumping. It's
(40:29):
cool realizing that Prince is now gothis hand, he's got his fist raised
in the air and he's jumping.And you can see this on YouTube.
You just figure it out and you'llsee the crowd starts screaming, I have
no idea why they're screaming like that. I mean, I'm going, dude,
we do this every night. Wedon't get this kind of reaction.
(40:52):
And then I look over to myleft and there's Prince fist in the air
like black power and he's jumping.I'm like going, wow, and check
this out. I only found thisout last night because my tech is here.
Prince before he ran out on stage, he went to my tech and
said, film this get you know, like take pictures. I didn't know
(41:15):
this until so we have a newangle. Yeah, I had no idea
last night. So I'm here inmy apartment in Florida and I have all
my team from my charity here andhe's our tech and anyway, so we
were just looking at old pictures andhe says, yeah, dude, man.
(41:36):
When I was like this, Iwas shaking like a leaf. But
he said to me, hey,man, come on. He held his
hands up like and he made acamera. And so I looked over to
my left and Prince is jumping upand down. The crowd is going bananous.
And now my band looks at meand we have a set arrangement,
and they were looking at me like, man, are we going to stop,
(41:59):
and I said, no, justtake it around one more time.
Let him play. And I didn'tknow what Prince wanted to do. It's
not only did he solo a bit, but he wanted to play rhythm guitar
with me. He wanted to say, like, check out how much more
funky I can make this. SoI'm playing the song the way it goes.
I'm playing that, and he's playingand it's killing, and all of
(42:27):
a sudden, it takes the funkto a whole other level. So we
just kept going and it was justit felt amazing to us. But I'm
very respectful of other artists, andI wasn't gonna, you know, play
overtime and then have the people whocame behind us have a shorter amount of
time on stage. So even thoughI was there with Prince and we were
(42:49):
having a good time, it's like, dude, okay, song's over now,
so we cut it. But itwas amazing. It was such a
great feeling playing with him. AndI'm almost certain that I'm the only artist
in history that Princes ever interviewed.He interviewed me for Essence magazine, and
(43:10):
he asked me all sorts of questionsbecause he and I have been friends for
a long time, and when wehang out together, it's really like on
a one to one level. Imean, we're just like guys hanging out.
It's none of the crazy wacky stuff, the big bodyguards not standing over
me or media. We're just likesitting down talking so and thank god,
(43:37):
our relationship was always like that.It was one of respect and admiration and
I didn't have to feel uncomfortable withPrince or anything like that. It was
never like, oh, don't lookin Prince's eyes, none of that.
Good. Sorry. We never notonce. We would just sit down and
(44:00):
other people couldn't look him in theeyes. But yeah, right, I
had I rights. Yeah, No, he never pull that on me.
And that's why I loved him somuch, not only just because of his
musicality, but just because of humannesswhen we were together, the humanity of
Prince and his outlook on life verydifferent than what most people would expect.
(44:29):
I love this. Yeah, thisis great. Well, okay, one
last question, because I'm sure thatyou have to go. Yeah, I
did brought up you brought up thefact that this was that this happened on
New Year's Eve, you clearly havekind of bad luck instances with New Year's
Eve and not being able to getinto that club was the Studio fifty four.
(44:51):
I just want to know if GraceJones has ever said to you,
you're welcome for that being the inspirationbehind such a massive record. She doesn't
say it like that, but shealways makes fun and she says she definitely
on some she doesn't like take creditgreat Gray Jones is not like real petty
(45:17):
like that. She understands that certainthings happen and certain things just worked the
way they work. And I wasthe beneficiary of not really knowing how she
operated. Like I had no ideathat Grace Jones was so popular and she
(45:42):
marched to her own ba that ona night like New Year's even New York,
and at a club as popular asStudio fifty four, which was the
center of the disco universe in youknow, nineteen seventy seven going into seventy
eight, that she could book threeor four shows, Like I had no
(46:02):
idea. I thought she was goingto be a Studio fifty four at midnight,
or at least before midnight, sothat when the ball drops she does
whatever she's going to do since becauseshe and I now are like great friends,
found out that she probably didn't showup that night until around two or
three in the morning. Bernard andI thought we were being really professional because
(46:27):
this was early on in our careers. We wanted to be early, so
we got to the club maybe atlike ten o'clock or something so that we
could be professional and sit down withher and go, yeah, mss Jones,
so how do you see your record? How do you envision? You
know, we were because we hadno idea. We were young, and
(46:50):
at that point we had only hadEverybody Dance, which was killing in the
clubs. And of course we haddance dance danc yauziau ZIAUSA, but we
had we Are Family and oh wow, no, it hadn't even come out
yet. Yeah, so this wasall about Everybody Dance. Yeah. So
Spike Lee, if you ever sawa movie called Summer of Sam, Spike
(47:15):
Lee got it right that during thatsummer, the big jam was chic dance
dance dance, but the more coolunderground club was playing Everybody Dance. So
yeah, that was the joint.So she contacted us because of Everybody Dance.
Wow, I just love this yeah. So yeah, So basically the
(47:40):
nuts and bolt of that story was, so we get to the front door,
sorry, the back door of Studiofifty four, which is what she
told us to do. And wehad never spoken to Grace Jones except for
that one time, so we didn'tknow that her speaking voices actually liked that.
So we were thrown for a curveballor loop whatever. She gets on
(48:07):
the phone and to us, she'sgoing, so, Darling's, let me
tell you what I want. Atleast that's how it sounds to us.
You know, I hate to doyou know, accents and stuff. But
to us, she sounded like across between Marlena Dietrich, Bella Lagosi and
Bob liked weird to us, sowe we thought that that's what we had
(48:29):
to do. We had to puton that accent. So Darling, you
go today bacdoor and you're tell themyou are personal friends or miss Greg Jones,
and I thought you were coming tohave a meeting, and we're like,
what, okay? Cool? Some and Bernard were practicing hello personal
friends the door and we go fireand it took the dude like at least
(48:51):
a half hour to answer the door. We're kicking the door because the music
and studio before was so loud heprobably couldn't even hear us, or he
probably thought that anybody was just tryingto get in because it was New Year's
Eve and it was the most importantparty in the world. So finally the
dude opens the door and says,you know, what do you want?
(49:14):
And we go hello, we're pustingalframes on these brace jones and we're coming
to me. And the guy slamsthe door off things and goes, ah
f off, and we're like no, no, no, no, no,
no no. We kicked the doorsome more and finally open's door again.
Did not tell you the fuck off, and we went whoa, Okay,
(49:35):
we realized we weren't getting in thestudio that night, even though we
were dressed to the nines. Ihad a pair of shoes on that well
got ruined because salt being spread,you know, in the snow that was
falling that night. But on theway back to my apartment, which was
only one block away from the backdoor of Studio fifty four, I lived
(49:58):
on fifty four. Sorry, Ilived on fifty second Street between eighth Avenue
and ninth Avenue and the swing byafterwards. Yeah, in the back of
study of fifty four the third Streetbetween Eighth and Broadway, and we grabbed
two bottles of champagne, which weused to call rock and rope bafwash,
(50:19):
you know, like that. Wewrote a song that went all all and
studio and uh and that morphed intoa freak out biggest selling single in the
history of Atlantic Records, Can't Kickit Up. Thanks to Grace Jones and
(50:45):
that security guard, and to youNile for joining us. Thank you so
much. Thank you guys. Andrewhad you feel about that one? Yeah,
that was our interview with Nile Rodgers. What a good time. I
(51:07):
wish he could have been here withus in the studio. He would have
passed out. He has such aeasy going, like grandfatherly presence, you
know. It was so it wasso nice to talk to him, and
he had he seemed to really enjoylooking back at this album and of course
(51:30):
at his his late songwriting partner,Bernard Edwards, who we lost almost twenty
five years ago, I think,or maybe more than that. Yeah,
but rock and roll mouthwash, that'swhat they called champagne. That's I want
to repeat that as many times aspossible, so I don't forget it,
(51:50):
because that's what That's one of thebest slang terms I've ever heard. I've
already forgotten about it, and I'mgonna need you to remind me of that
almost every day. Okay. Ican only imagine how confused you were at
that text that I sent you.I was like, what the hell are
we talking about? What? BecauseI did earlier that same day send send
you a text that I meant tosend my wife a response to her question.
(52:15):
I thought that. I'm like,there's no way, but I didn't
want to ignore you, so Iwas like, huh, what's going on?
Huh. I think that this conversationkind of makes me excited for the
future because we started off so big, Like I mean, how can we
not have exactly no, we canstop us. I'm excited. What do
(52:40):
you have in store for next week? Okay? So we've done We've done
pop, We've done R and B, We've done disco, even though this
was like almost more of like afunk album, and I think disco,
I think like something way more layersof production chic, but it was disco.
Okay, So let's do some rockand I've picked a more contemporary rock
(53:06):
album. It's still twenty years old, but we're gonna do Elephant by the
White Stripes. Okay. I don'tknow how I'm going to feel about this
album revisiting it, but I knowthat this was a big deal for me
when I was in high school.The White Stripes were like the first band,
first rock band of my generation thatI was like, this is really
cool. This is a band thatI'm going to keep up with and we'll
(53:30):
see how it holds up for me. We'll see if it has any value
for you after this time. I'mnervous, but listen, it's called being
a team player. Yeah, that'sthe show, So get uncomfortable. Okay,
great, So you want to saybye, I want to say thank
you to everyone who listened. Ofcourse, hit us up, let us
(53:52):
know what you like about the showand what you don't like about the show.
We're still figuring this thing out.Also, remember that there's nothing that
we could do with our voice.So if you don't min card voices,
then it is what it is.But yeah, send your feedback, like
comment, subscribe, just like youwould a YouTube channel. I think that's
gonna be my new thing. ThatI want to help you. That's just
like solid advice. Oh. Peoplecan leave ratings and reviews too. Yeah,
(54:15):
but if it's under three, keepit to yourself. If you're not
leaving a five star review, don't, don't even bother. We'll take four.
If you want to leave a nastyreview, give it five stars and
then we'll read it on the show. If you give it five, oh
my god, yes, okay,great, that'll be fun. I mean
maybe maybe it won't be fun becauseit'll be too many of them, but
(54:37):
we'll take it. So until nexttime, see you guys. Se complet
Hi guys, Welcome back to anotherepisode I have okay, sorry, I'm
excited. This is an exciting one. This is our first guest in the
podcast speed kind of a big deal, not even kind of not even a
little bit of a big deal.Nile Rogers, co founder of the band
(00:37):
Chic and a author, co author, producer on basically all of the top
forty hits from the last forty fiveyears. Noil Rogers is on the at
First Listen podcast with You Diamond andAndrew Yes. First of all, have
you listened to the full album fromstart to finish before? So never before.
(01:03):
This was pretty funny because the firstvoice that you hear once we make
the jump to the Nile portion ofthe episode is going to be Nile kind
of ribbing us a little bit onthe fact that we chose one of the
best selling albums of all time fora show of music that we've never heard
(01:23):
before. So we got along greatwith him. Obviously, Nile is in
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, He's in the Songwriters Hall of Fame.
He's probably in so many halls offame that he would not be able
to recall them all. And ofcourse, his latest adventure was into Yonce
(01:45):
Land with Beyonce, So of courseI had to ask questions about that,
because I mean, ten out often experience across the board, I'm guessing,
but I'm just really excited for everyoneto hear this and for us to
be able to walk away from thisand say that we interview Nile Rogers twice,
me once. Okay, great,Yeah, So the focus of the
episode is going to be on Chik'ssecond studio album, Say Chic. This
(02:08):
is the album with Chic cheer onit, like Freak, I Want Your
Love. It's kind of there's liketoo many hits on this album, and
then all of those hits have beensampled and used on other hits in the
decades that came after, so it'spretty wild. We got sidetracked right away
(02:34):
into talking about Jimmy Hendrix. Ihad no idea that Nile Rogers knew Jimmy
Hendrix personally. Towards the end ofit, we talk a bit about Prince
and then Diamond asked a great questionabout where the idea for the song like
Freak comes from, and I wantedto mention that because we didn't set we
(02:57):
didn't set up that we were talkingabout that you just asked the question,
and it's not till we get apretty deep into that story that it's apparent
what song Nile is talking about.So towards the end of the interview,
that's that's what we're going on aboutthere, Diamond. You were just kind
of cheezing for the first few minutes. I mean, when you're in the
(03:17):
presence, I wish we had videofor this. You were just like it's
one of those things that like you'rejust sitting there and you're like, I
just remember thinking to myself, likeI've listened to you growing up so much
that like, I know, Idon't know you, but it's like,
wow, I'm just so happy,like we're friends in my head, you
know what I mean. And hewas nice, so it made me feel
like we are maybe friends. Youknow, Yeah, I feel that way
(03:39):
too. You can make like sucha long playlist of just songs that sample
and revolve around chic loops. Wegot into it a little bit with Nile
about how he felt about that earlthat like first wave of hip hop,
and his answers were really interesting.He did not get it at all initially,
(04:03):
so he talks about having a lotof issues with early hip hop and
then what made him come around,which was a conversation with the Shockley brothers
where they kind of explained that alot of it came down to just the
education that was available to them,like they didn't have the opportunity to learn
a musical instrument like Niall did,or like some of his collaborators through the
(04:26):
years did. And he sort ofcame full circle on momenty more problems by
Biggie when he heard the layers ofsampling and how they created completely new and
original musical ideas. And then hisprint story. Oh man, we got
to leave that for him to telland for you to I don't even need
(04:46):
you to go into it, becauseI want them to be shocked jaw to
the floor. If anyone listened toour first episode, some of the questions
that we asked about prints and thingsthat we would want to know about what
it was like to be around Prince. Nile was a personal friend of Prince
for something like thirty years, sohe answers in a way one or two
(05:12):
of those questions coming up after thebreak, Nile rogers and say chic and
a whole lot of stuff about hisguitar playing and his legacy in music.
I'm so excited. Okay, Anddon't forget guys, I mean dm us
comment like subscribe all that stuff,because we need to know how you feel
(05:34):
about this. I need to makesure that you're just as excited as I
am, because I mean buzzin'.So you need to tell me, honestly,
(05:56):
you have never heard say Sheik.So we've done this couple of times
already. I don't want to cutyou off time. So the first one
we the first album we did forthe show was Purple Rain, And of
course we've all heard songs from PurpleRain, but listening to the album in
sequence is a bit of a differentexperience. And when we're talking about older
(06:17):
records sometimes I think there's like athere's some context that's lost by just listening
to the singles and the hits.So this was say Chik front to back
several times. Okay, cool,now I get it. Okay, Yes,
I like that you asked the questionbecause I could see how that might
(06:39):
insult you a little bit. Andalso, honestly, it's like impossible that
someone couldn't have heard this this musicbefore. Oh you got it? Told
you you took it only wrong.It didn't insult me. I just was
thinking, like, so where doyou live? Yeah, exactly, like
under right? Yeah. Well no, I'm just saying that we at least
(07:01):
we have one song on that recordthat's the biggest selling single in the history
of Atlantic records. Like bigger thanBruno Mars, but bigger. But Diamond
and I are new to to PlanetEarth, so so we might have missed
it. Okay, So let's startwith this awesome Voodoo Child Slight Return video
(07:25):
you did with Fender, with MatteaSosado and Tyler Bryant and so many great
players. It's nice that you youled that sort of jam, and it's
a style of guitar playing that isnot really associated with you. I wonder
had you ever performed that song before? No I. And what's really interesting
(07:47):
is that not only had I neverplayed Voodoo Child, which is funny because
I was a super Hendricks fan,but I actually tuned down to E flat
like Stevie Ray Vaughan. And Iguess they say Jimmy did. I'm not
really sure. Even though I knewJimmy, I never questioned, you know,
(08:07):
what he tuned down or not?Just like when I played with Stevie.
He just came in and played.So it was only later that when
we became friends. I said,man, you have such a nice stone
and he says, well, yeah, you know, I tuned down a
half step. So I this isthe first time I've ever tuned down a
half step and play. And didyou did you play that on the original
(08:28):
hit Maker or is that one ofthe replicas? Okay, wow, the
hit Maker the real thing? Soyou were friend you knew Jimmy Hendrix personally?
Oh yeah, totally. I thoughtthat would have been a little before
your time. No, I'm dude, I'm seventy one and a half years
old. Okay. I The recordingstudio that Jimmy built that he called Electric
(08:54):
Ladyland used to be a nightclub calledGeneration in my band, the Gig at
Generation. So what was work fora living? I've always worked. I
didn't know we went back this farwith Jimmy Hendrix. That's incredible. Jimmy
used to come and hang out withus at a spot that we used to
(09:16):
eat at every day called Blimpy's inNew York. Are you guys New York?
Where are you from? Where areyou at I'm from New Jersey,
so you're New Yorkers, New Yorkbased. Ye. Yeah, we're on
West fifty fifth Street right now.Oh dude, come on that. You
got to really be embarrassed. Yeah. So I'm glad we're talking about Jimmy.
I'm glad you actually knew him personally. This is something I've wrestled with
(09:39):
in terms of the future of theshow. Is what Jimmy Hendrix album should
I have Diamond listen to? Whatwould you recommend for her? Do you
think it's really interesting? Because Isaid, I am so damn old dinosaurs
walk the earth when I was akid, So probably the easiest for one
(10:05):
to digest would be a little bitafter the unless unless she drops acid.
I mean not anytime soon, butmaybe Okay, I would say a band
of Gypsy's recorded at the filmore easy. That's exactly what I was thinking.
(10:26):
That's my favorite record of Jimmy's.It's it's a little bit more R and
B and song orient than the earlierrecords, even though I have to say
my personal favorite is the second album, Access Bold as Love. I just
think it's a genius, masterpiece,incredible that has a lot of the more
(10:50):
pop song sort of writing that hewas doing. Yeah, but also the
psychedelia and the great lyric writing,which I thought it was incredible. I
mean it actually used to make mesit down and contemplate my own life.
It was pretty deep for me.I think I was around sixteen or seventeen.
(11:11):
That's interesting. My favorite studio albumof his is actually Electric Ladyland,
which the studio is named for,But the band of Gypsy's is my favorite
Hendricks. Yeah, it's pretty greatrelease. Yeah. He the interplay with
that with that band is just incredibleto me. Yeah, they were phenomenal,
(11:35):
really phenomenal. Hendrix spoke to me, you know, as as as
an artist and a person for meto sort of really idolize one. He
was really anti establishment, which I'mmarching in that parade all day long.
(11:56):
It was the time of the blackpower movement, Women's rights movement, gay
power, you know, just everything, just all of these movements along with
the anti Vietnam movement that we allfelt like we were this gigantic group of
like minded people that wanted just abetter, more peaceful world. So an
(12:22):
artist like Hendrix really spoke to memore so than just you know, the
artists talking about you know, youknow blues and yeah, I'm gonna shoot
my mother's lover or whatever whatever theywere talking about. But you know,
all right, I asked a bunchof questions in a row, Diamond,
get in here. I'm ready,okay, Because if there's one thing that
(12:46):
this process of this podcast has taughtme in the short month or two that
we've been doing, it is thatI like to listen to music, but
I don't know much about what I'mlistening to. If that makes sense,
is a consumer who loves a goodbeat and never really thought more, never
really thought more about it besides justwhat I'm listening to in that moment.
(13:09):
I have favorites, which this processhas taught me is really based off of
nostalgic reasons and stuff like that,not necessarily because of the way things are
played and like what instruments. Instrumentsare being used. Andrew has taught me
that I'm like, oh my god, this is like going over my head.
But this album showed me that Iliterally no music and just don't realize
(13:35):
it. Does that make sense toyou guys? Like that makes like,
Okay, listen, I want yourlove. I hate to jump around we're
supposed to go in the track list, and I listen, we're starting side
to Okay, we can start fromthe top. I already said, I
clearly am a nostalgic listener because whenI got to this song, I stantley
(14:00):
was taken back to my aunt anduncle's kitchen and them dancing to it.
And I'm just a little kid likeBob in my head, like know this
song but didn't realize it. It'sinsane to me that, like I could
be almost thirty and consume all thismusic without it really like clicking in this
head of mine. It's almost likea chemical reaction. But the first song
(14:22):
on the album, she'd cheer assoon as I heard it. I'm pretty
sure you know where it took me, but Faith Evans, and I'm like,
it's actually pretty extraordinary to me.This last Christmas season, Ryan Teddor
did a new version of it forlike a target or something. Oh yeah,
(14:46):
no, I heard that. Iremember, I know what you're talking
about. I wrote him and Isaid, Ryan, I gotta tell you
it's really killing. He said,hey, man, you know I couldn't
let you down. You know,Fat and Scoop that same song. I
mean, I you know, honestly, when we wrote that, my partner
(15:09):
Bernard Edwards, and myself when wewrote that, we were only thinking about
she We were only thinking about makingan album. And our albums have a
certain formula, and I'll give youthis simple formula. Every single Chic album
is based on this, this fundamentalconcept that we're a brand new band.
(15:35):
Nobody knows who we are, andyou're hearing our music for the first time,
so we have to tell you whowe are. Do do Chic Chic?
Do she? Give me a csee, give me an age,
give me an eye, give mea see if you know what I mean.
That's why we wrote that song.And uh and and then we you
(15:56):
know, we have what we feelwill be a couple of hits based on
the current zeitgeist. And then wethen try and oh, we also have
an instrumental. We also have aballad, and we also have something that
we think might influence the future becausewe're starting to hear what's bubbling under.
(16:22):
So say Sheikh is a perfect exampleof that kind of album. We had
a song called happy Man on it, which was sort of semi reggae bass.
We had I Want Your Love,which we knew was a hit,
but I wrote I Want Your Love. I wrote that song because I am
a super fan of McCoy tyner JohnColtrane's pianos, most famous for playing with
(16:45):
John Coltrane, And when I wroteI Want Your Love, I wrote it
as if I were playing the piano, and I actually may have even written
it on piano, I don't quiteremember, but when I played it.
The other big influence were sequencers,and we didn't know that there was something
(17:07):
called the sequencer. We actually thoughtpeople could play like that. So I
just I just kept practicing, practice, practice, practice, practice, and
I was practicing like crazy. Andreally the person that I was trying to
(17:29):
copy was Giorgio Moroda, who wasdoing Donna Summer records. And I remember
when I finally met Giorgio, hadto be decades later. I said,
hey, Georgio, you know thatI could play the songs from your album,
which were all heavily sequenced, andI was playing like He's like on
no guitar player and play and Isaid, yeah, I can play it.
(17:51):
Because I was practicing, I gotit down. So I Want Your
Love was an homage to that styleof percussive music percussive chortal music, which
I actually thought a person was playingjokes on me. But thank god I
did that because I learned how todo something that is not part of normal
(18:15):
guitar playing. Really. You know, now you hear guys like Cory Wang
who burned down, but at thetime when I did that, you never
heard any guitar player play that.And that was because I was imitating something.
It's funny. It's just like Diamondsaid, I didn't know what that
was that was doing that, butI tried to do it on the thing
(18:37):
that I played. I think thatshows a little bit of like how hard
you were working also at the timethat you weren't aware of stuff that was
kind of maybe a little bit justa little bit outside of your purview at
the time because you were You're alreadyproducing other people's records by this point,
weren't you correct? Correct? Butthe thing is is that when you're an
(19:00):
old school musician, we take alot of pride in being able to keep
the groove. Like you know,you go to chic records, we don't
play the click tracks or anything likethat. We stay in the pocket right
from the jump. You go lookat any of our live videos. Anything,
we count it off and that's whatwe are. I go, what
(19:23):
do Yeah, that's that's something thatthat really also struck me about the record
as a whole is you know youdo on this album what what no band
would do today where it's live,playing the whole time, and you let
some parts really breathe, you letthe breakdown go and go and go,
(19:47):
and you know, at best anartist now would get a good take and
then loop it a few times andthen that's how they would finish the track.
But but you were really just youjust play till I guess you you
thought, Okay, that's good,that's it. So yeah, basically the
(20:07):
way that chic sessions work is everybody'sgot charts and we read through the basic
chart and then at the end wecan either go as long as we want
because we finished the song and nowwe just keep jamming. Happy Man is
a perfect example. Or as MarkRonson put it, which is one of
(20:30):
my favorite things of all time.He said, when I first heard of
the Freak, I was like soexcited. It was like, wow,
oh freak out. I love it, went to the store and bought it.
You know, he's English, sohe said, I was waiting for
the middle eight, and he says, that's what they call the bridge.
Gotcha. Yeah, So the middleeight and he went and then it turned
into a middle sixteen, and itturned into a middle thirty two. No
(20:53):
records do that. Well, wejust now freak doo doo doo doo doo
doo doo doo doo doo doo dodo and we just play and playing play.
I said, freak do no,no, no, no, freak
do do do do too proud,and we just jammed through it. And
and the reason why we did thatis because as live musicians, I used
(21:18):
to be in the house band atthe Apollo Theater. If artists had only
one or maybe two hit records,they would still get booked for a show.
And the way that you would makeyour show interesting is you would break
down, and you would do abreakdown and then you would talk to the
audience. So like one of myfirst gigs was with Betty Wright, and
(21:41):
she had a song called clean UpWoman, but she only wound up having
you know, like two hits orsomething, so we would be playing Danke
Dankedank Gang Damn Danked. After shesings the song you know, she looked
at the band we break down thedump, and she would say, nah,
(22:02):
I know there's some clean up womenout there, but you know,
there's a lot of clean up men. And then she'd be talking stuff and
she would keep the audience engaged overthat long breakdown, and then different instruments
would start to come in. Thatbecame the Chik formula. So I didn't
(22:22):
have a record deal when I wasplaying with Betty Wright. But when I
got a record deal, I said, damn, why don't we put on
records what we used to do live. So if you listen to I'm trying
to think of the first time Iplayed an album where the single wasn't seven
or eight minutes long. It hadto be like probably maybe my tenth or
(22:48):
eleventh album. I mean, everyrecord I did be it. You know,
Chicic's is a sledge chic cheek cheekcheek. David Bowie in excess,
uh, Duranda ran everything. Thesingle. I mean, go and listen
to the single Let's Dance. It'slong. I mean, I mean,
(23:11):
you know, see the album albumversion is edited down, just like the
Freak. The single is edited down, but on the album, like Mark
Ronson said, it's it's long.One of the things everybody it was like
that. Yeah, one of thethings we were wondering is if kind of
vamping in those middle sections, ifthat was maybe for the the DJs and
(23:32):
for the clubs that were just spendingthe record, or for some of like
the hip hop guys who are samplingit. Absolutely there were it was dual
purpose. Uh, maybe even tryphasing. So let me take you back in
history. There was a time peopleloved to listen to just music, have
to sing. You didn't have totalk about your Cadillac or your Lamborghini,
(23:56):
or your you know, or yourfly Prada. You didn't have to do
that. You could just play musicand people would vibe to the music and
the groove. So we knew thatpeople seemed to like our music and our
grooving. And the twelve inch recordwas a new platform, so we wanted
(24:18):
to appeal to that platform. Andwe didn't want to put a four inch
you know, like a four minutesong on a twelve inch record, So
we cut the songs long so thatover that you know, long experience,
you'd actually get a full arrangement,and each section was interesting, you know,
(24:38):
sometimes we just vamped and they felta little bit long after the fact.
But if you were in those days, if you went to a club
and the DJ happened to build anaudience around the song happy Man, it
didn't feel long. Now to me, he feels even long to me,
I'm like, on, dude,we should have stopped at it. Well,
(25:00):
we stop that vamp out a littleearlier. How do you feel about
the fact that songs are so shortthese days? Like we're listening to songs
that literally can't go past three minutes, Like how did he make that?
Too? Well? Like, howdo you feel about that? Going from
such long form songs and vibing outto now it's seeming like for me,
(25:22):
a lot of songs aren't long enough. Yeah, they're two minutes and change.
Yeah. I always respect wherever weare in history, because there's a
reason why songs are two minutes inchange or just barely over three minutes,
just like it used to be whenI first started. So, when I
first started, records were three minutesand change, and every now and then
(25:44):
you get a longer record, andevery now and then you get a longer
record. That was a hit becausetypically the radio stations you know was selling
advertising time, and if your songwas too long, even if it were
really good song, they would getturned off in the program director wouldn't even
add it. So sometimes you'd haveto be a star to just have a
(26:08):
record that approached four minutes. Soyou know, there are a lot of
things that control that, and Ithink that for myself as a musician,
I like to be able to staymalleable and just bend with the times.
(26:30):
Like I don't have any problem writinga two and a half minute song now,
I feel perfectly fine. I didmy first couple of K pop records
and I got a big, big, big, gigantic hit. I mean,
I'm like going wow, like reallywe sold ten million in Japan.
Holy, I'm like wow. Itwas my first shot at it, so
(26:55):
I you know, and I understoodwhat the parameters were, and you know,
thank god the other producer who wasthere to say to me, you
know, dude, no we can'tdo a twelve Speaking of like huge hits,
Andrew knows this. I am ahuge Beyonce fan. I just want
to know how it was working oncofet with her, and if she just
(27:21):
gave you free reign to do whatyou wanted to do because I don't see
her trying to boss not Rogers around. Yeah. It's funny, you know.
Now I believe I'm going to actlike I'm no Straudamus and I can
predict the future. Yeah. Soit was wonderful, and I have to
(27:44):
say it was the most relaxed thatI've ever been because the only instruction I
got was Ben Rogers. Wow.Wow. Really. So she allowed me
to h play whatever part I wasplaying, and then instinctively I felt that
(28:07):
when she gets to what I feltwas the chorus, because of my harmonic
knowledge and my approach to guitar playing, I was able to play the inversions
up an octave and make it feela little bit brighter when we get to
that part, and then come backdown when she goes to the A part
(28:29):
instead. I mean like, Iturned in my part and it was like,
okay, done. It was likeso I called him Dream and I
said, you know, I'm liketrying to get some critique. I'm like,
I called Dream and I said,Dream, you do realize that I
switched and went up an octavet Hewas like, yeah, man, that
was dope, Okay, cool.I love that. I love that do
(28:52):
you want to go because I canask more questions like I do want to
know? Happy Man was a trackon this album that I was not not
one hundred percent sure that I wasfamiliar with it. You know, sometimes
like Diamond is saying, we've heardthese records on other people's records as samples
(29:15):
for so long. But happy Man, you know, I'm mostly a bass
player now than a guitar player.I get about thirty seconds into that song
and I said, I got toget a bass in my hand, and
I got to figure out how Bernardis doing this and singing it. What
do you remember about putting that onetogether? And also can you talk a
(29:36):
little bit about your partner Bernard andwhat made him such a great compliment to
you. So Bernard was the greatestleveling tool that has ever entered my life.
Because of my jazz background, Iinstinctively overwrite when I i'm up with
(30:00):
a song, And the way thatBernard and I wrote together was whoever came
up with the idea first. Theother partner would then play their part identical
and would just copy their part.So that's our second album. But the
very first song I ever wrote forShe was called Everybody Dance. And when
(30:25):
I wrote Everybody Dance, I waschucking. I was playing this really cool
chucking part. And Bernard came intothe studio and because I was chucking,
he started chucking. So he startedgoing he was copying me exactly, and
I was like, going, waita minute, both of us doing this
ain't gonna work. But if Ilet you do it, and then I
(30:48):
just play, you know, don'tdon't don't. No, no, no,
no, no down, don't don't, and Bernard is just killing me.
So what most people don't know aboutBernard's history is that he started out
as a guitar player. And whathappened is he was in a band and
(31:11):
I'm not going to name any namesbecause the people actually are named, and
he was in a band that wasmanaged by gangsters, and they had two
guitar players and the leader of theband was a bass player. When the
bass player went to the gangster andasked for their money, the guy broke
(31:33):
his thumbs and so now Bernard hadto play bass while the guy, the
leader, continued to be the leadsinger. So Bernard, with his guitar
style, started playing the bass.But he knew that the bass didn't sound
right with him playing with a pig, so he started using this incredible technique
(31:57):
where he plays with his fingers andswitched back and forth to playing with his
forefinger and the middle finger or thethumb, which is I've never seen any
bass player in the world do that, and he was just instinctive with him.
That's his fingers playing boom, dodo do Do Do do, And
(32:21):
that's why those dynamics are so likeamazing when he's playing that bit. It
used to be one of our favoritelive moments, was vamping out to a
live audience and having Bernard go offunhappy man and everybody dance. As I
said, there used to be atime when people like to hear bands just
(32:42):
play music. I love that.Yeah, that's not gonna make it any
easier for me to figure out whathe's doing, but thank you. Yes,
here's my biggest question that I'm likenervous to ask because my heart might
get broken. Are there any artiststhat have requested to sample that you've denied
(33:08):
only a handful, because at firstI thought it was a little bit weird
because a lot of the samples theywere just taking my stuff and not clearing
it. And when the Shock Brothersexplained to me that, they said,
now do you think that we'd bedoing this if we had your educational background?
(33:29):
They said they stopped teaching music inschools in New York City. He
says, you know, when theystart cutting the budget, the first thing
that goes are the arts, Andyou know, like, I'm not going
really because I grew up in astandardized curriculum. So even though we lived
in the ghetto, I could,you know, be in the poorest neighborhood
(33:52):
in New York and the poorest neighborhoodin Los Angeles, and we were learning
exactly the same thing as the kidsin the richest neighborhoods. So when people
were sampling and I kept saying,wait a minute, guys. You know
like when rappers the light came out, I was like, oh, wait
a minute, whoaoaoa, whoa.Don't you understand it took me years to
learn how to write like that.It took all that money for me to
(34:12):
hire half of the New York Phillamounting Sure the play. It took me
hiring Bob clear Mountain and the powerstation and having Bernard Edwards and Tony Thompson
and you know, and Raymond andall these great people on this record.
And meanwhile, you can just comein and go I'm like whoa, hey,
whoa and put it on your record, like damn, I cast you
(34:34):
whatever the record called, and youprobably stole the record. You're gonna steal
my lick. You might almost stealthe record. So you know, we
we threatened the lawsuit with sugar HillGang and we set it out of court.
And then as I started dealing withmore hip hop producers and eventually wound
up on a panel with the Shockles, and then we had a rap and
(35:00):
I was like, oh man,I really get it now, So I
respect your art form. I understandthat, you know, your musical education
comes from being around music and appreciatingit and then now having the ability to
go take it and say I likethis, I think that beat goes with
that. And Public Enemy were thefirst people that I would hear do this
(35:23):
sort of compound sampling, like taketwo or three records at a time and
make it where I was like,damn, that's really clever. And then
then people started doing it with mysongs. You know, you you would
hear I don't know who would theywant from me, looks like the more
(35:43):
money. At the same time,Diana Ross is singing, uh comment out
there, the more money they see. Ah, I'm like going, damn,
that's incredible that you guys could thinkof that. So I wound up
getting a very open mind. That'sa long winded way of saying that I
(36:05):
do not tell any artists what theycould do. The only time that I've
ever turned down a sample was whensomeone took we Are Family and they wanted
to change the hook lyrics. Andthe reason why I did that it was
one of the girls from Sister Sledge, and I was like, whoaha,
(36:28):
whoa wa, whoa, whoa,Wait a minute, you don't know what
you're doing. This is what madeyou famous. If you change the lyrics.
I can change the lyrics to youknow, we are Family. But
if you change the lyrics to weare family, all of a sudden,
I guarantee you your audience is goingto look at you and go, whoa,
what's happening here? I mean,you got a piece of platinum right
(36:51):
there in your hands, and I'mjust stopping you from making a big mistake.
So that's the only person I've everturned down. So it's for their
own good. Well, it's justthat. Look. I was doing a
gig with Paul Simon once and fiveminutes before we going out on stage,
he says, you know, Inever really like the bridge to this song.
Let's change it. I said,Paul, hundred thousand people out there,
(37:15):
they're gonna be singing the bridge.You can't change the lyrics. Now.
Only Bob Dylan can do that,and people don't like it when he
does it the show. No,don't do that. But you gotta be
crazy, like people will say,oh, that black dude probably told him
to do it. Yeah, they'regonna blame it on me. They're not
gonna blame it on you. Wementioned Prince at the top, and we're
(37:50):
both super curious because we know thatyou were you were friendly with him.
Yeah, I found the story thatyou told on a podcast. Asked about
how Prince did you up at agig on New Year's Eve. He said
he was going to play Let's Danceand you introduced him and he in front
of the twenty thousand people, andhe just never showed up. We talked
(38:13):
a little bit about this on Okaythat episode. Wait a minute, okay,
Okay, he did not run fromtwenty thousand people. He ran away
from a few hundred people. Okay, and what I'm sure it feels the
same. But when you're when you'reout there, Prince, Well, what
was particularly embarrassing about that was thatpeople that I had known for years were
(38:38):
there. So John bon Jovi wasthere. John bon Jovi started working like
at the studio that I worked at. I mean, he used to clean
up my room. You know.It's like, so I've watched this guy
from the beginning of his career becomejovie. So he was there at the
show, and you know, andother famous people were there, and I
(39:00):
was like, wow, they getto see me play with Prince tonight.
So I said, lady, comeand Prince, and the Prince not only
does he sneak off, he runsoff. Did you see him turn his
back to you and scamper off?No, people told me, because I
was engaging in the audience. Peopletold me that he took off. And
(39:20):
then at the end of the nighthe came and he just sat down and
was hanging with me. Okay,I don't even I don't even think I
remembered asking him why didn't show up. I was just going well, I
would never make that mistake again.So fast forward to about another year later,
he asked us to guest star atthe Essence Festival. Now we're talking
(39:45):
seventy thousand, so that's where thebig number comes in. Right, We're
playing at the Superdome, and Ithink that the capacity is something like that.
It's fifty thousand. It's huge,huge. So now, Princess,
okay, I'm gonna come out andplay Let's Dance with you. And I'm
like, going, dude, you'renot gonna no, no, no,
(40:06):
no on me tonight. So weget out there and we're playing Let's Dance
and we go jump jump jump jump, and that's that's sort of like a
little thing we do in the middleof Let's Dance when when we're playing the
breakdown section and then all of asudden, the crowd lets out the blood
curdling scream and I'm like, going, damn, we're just jumping. It's
(40:29):
cool realizing that Prince is now gothis hand, he's got his fist raised
in the air and he's jumping.And you can see this on YouTube.
You just figure it out and you'llsee the crowd starts screaming, I have
no idea why they're screaming like that. I mean, I'm going, dude,
we do this every night. Wedon't get this kind of reaction.
(40:52):
And then I look over to myleft and there's Prince fist in the air
like black power and he's jumping.I'm like going, wow, and check
this out. I only found thisout last night because my tech is here.
Prince before he ran out on stage, he went to my tech and
said, film this get you know, like take pictures. I didn't know
(41:15):
this until so we have a newangle. Yeah, I had no idea
last night. So I'm here inmy apartment in Florida and I have all
my team from my charity here andhe's our tech and anyway, so we
were just looking at old pictures andhe says, yeah, dude, man.
(41:36):
When I was like this, Iwas shaking like a leaf. But
he said to me, hey,man, come on. He held his
hands up like and he made acamera. And so I looked over to
my left and Prince is jumping upand down. The crowd is going bananous.
And now my band looks at meand we have a set arrangement,
and they were looking at me like, man, are we going to stop,
(41:59):
and I said, no, justtake it around one more time.
Let him play. And I didn'tknow what Prince wanted to do. It's
not only did he solo a bit, but he wanted to play rhythm guitar
with me. He wanted to say, like, check out how much more
funky I can make this. SoI'm playing the song the way it goes.
I'm playing that, and he's playingand it's killing, and all of
(42:27):
a sudden, it takes the funkto a whole other level. So we
just kept going and it was justit felt amazing to us. But I'm
very respectful of other artists, andI wasn't gonna, you know, play
overtime and then have the people whocame behind us have a shorter amount of
time on stage. So even thoughI was there with Prince and we were
(42:49):
having a good time, it's like, dude, okay, song's over now,
so we cut it. But itwas amazing. It was such a
great feeling playing with him. AndI'm almost certain that I'm the only artist
in history that Princes ever interviewed.He interviewed me for Essence magazine, and
(43:10):
he asked me all sorts of questionsbecause he and I have been friends for
a long time, and when wehang out together, it's really like on
a one to one level. Imean, we're just like guys hanging out.
It's none of the crazy wacky stuff, the big bodyguards not standing over
me or media. We're just likesitting down talking so and thank god,
(43:37):
our relationship was always like that.It was one of respect and admiration and
I didn't have to feel uncomfortable withPrince or anything like that. It was
never like, oh, don't lookin Prince's eyes, none of that.
Good. Sorry. We never notonce. We would just sit down and
(44:00):
other people couldn't look him in theeyes. But yeah, right, I
had I rights. Yeah, No, he never pull that on me.
And that's why I loved him somuch, not only just because of his
musicality, but just because of humannesswhen we were together, the humanity of
Prince and his outlook on life verydifferent than what most people would expect.
(44:29):
I love this. Yeah, thisis great. Well, okay, one
last question, because I'm sure thatyou have to go. Yeah, I
did brought up you brought up thefact that this was that this happened on
New Year's Eve, you clearly havekind of bad luck instances with New Year's
Eve and not being able to getinto that club was the Studio fifty four.
(44:51):
I just want to know if GraceJones has ever said to you,
you're welcome for that being the inspirationbehind such a massive record. She doesn't
say it like that, but shealways makes fun and she says she definitely
on some she doesn't like take creditgreat Gray Jones is not like real petty
(45:17):
like that. She understands that certainthings happen and certain things just worked the
way they work. And I wasthe beneficiary of not really knowing how she
operated. Like I had no ideathat Grace Jones was so popular and she
(45:42):
marched to her own ba that ona night like New Year's even New York,
and at a club as popular asStudio fifty four, which was the
center of the disco universe in youknow, nineteen seventy seven going into seventy
eight, that she could book threeor four shows, Like I had no
(46:02):
idea. I thought she was goingto be a Studio fifty four at midnight,
or at least before midnight, sothat when the ball drops she does
whatever she's going to do since becauseshe and I now are like great friends,
found out that she probably didn't showup that night until around two or
three in the morning. Bernard andI thought we were being really professional because
(46:27):
this was early on in our careers. We wanted to be early, so
we got to the club maybe atlike ten o'clock or something so that we
could be professional and sit down withher and go, yeah, mss Jones,
so how do you see your record? How do you envision? You
know, we were because we hadno idea. We were young, and
(46:50):
at that point we had only hadEverybody Dance, which was killing in the
clubs. And of course we haddance dance danc yauziau ZIAUSA, but we
had we Are Family and oh wow, no, it hadn't even come out
yet. Yeah, so this wasall about Everybody Dance. Yeah. So
Spike Lee, if you ever sawa movie called Summer of Sam, Spike
(47:15):
Lee got it right that during thatsummer, the big jam was chic dance
dance dance, but the more coolunderground club was playing Everybody Dance. So
yeah, that was the joint.So she contacted us because of Everybody Dance.
Wow, I just love this yeah. So yeah, So basically the
(47:40):
nuts and bolt of that story was, so we get to the front door,
sorry, the back door of Studiofifty four, which is what she
told us to do. And wehad never spoken to Grace Jones except for
that one time, so we didn'tknow that her speaking voices actually liked that.
So we were thrown for a curveballor loop whatever. She gets on
(48:07):
the phone and to us, she'sgoing, so, Darling's, let me
tell you what I want. Atleast that's how it sounds to us.
You know, I hate to doyou know, accents and stuff. But
to us, she sounded like across between Marlena Dietrich, Bella Lagosi and
Bob liked weird to us, sowe we thought that that's what we had
(48:29):
to do. We had to puton that accent. So Darling, you
go today bacdoor and you're tell themyou are personal friends or miss Greg Jones,
and I thought you were coming tohave a meeting, and we're like,
what, okay? Cool? Some and Bernard were practicing hello personal
friends the door and we go fireand it took the dude like at least
(48:51):
a half hour to answer the door. We're kicking the door because the music
and studio before was so loud heprobably couldn't even hear us, or he
probably thought that anybody was just tryingto get in because it was New Year's
Eve and it was the most importantparty in the world. So finally the
dude opens the door and says,you know, what do you want?
(49:14):
And we go hello, we're pustingalframes on these brace jones and we're coming
to me. And the guy slamsthe door off things and goes, ah
f off, and we're like no, no, no, no, no,
no no. We kicked the doorsome more and finally open's door again.
Did not tell you the fuck off, and we went whoa, Okay,
(49:35):
we realized we weren't getting in thestudio that night, even though we
were dressed to the nines. Ihad a pair of shoes on that well
got ruined because salt being spread,you know, in the snow that was
falling that night. But on theway back to my apartment, which was
only one block away from the backdoor of Studio fifty four, I lived
(49:58):
on fifty four. Sorry, Ilived on fifty second Street between eighth Avenue
and ninth Avenue and the swing byafterwards. Yeah, in the back of
study of fifty four the third Streetbetween Eighth and Broadway, and we grabbed
two bottles of champagne, which weused to call rock and rope bafwash,
(50:19):
you know, like that. Wewrote a song that went all all and
studio and uh and that morphed intoa freak out biggest selling single in the
history of Atlantic Records, Can't Kickit Up. Thanks to Grace Jones and
(50:45):
that security guard, and to youNile for joining us. Thank you so
much. Thank you guys. Andrewhad you feel about that one? Yeah,
that was our interview with Nile Rodgers. What a good time. I
(51:07):
wish he could have been here withus in the studio. He would have
passed out. He has such aeasy going, like grandfatherly presence, you
know. It was so it wasso nice to talk to him, and
he had he seemed to really enjoylooking back at this album and of course
(51:30):
at his his late songwriting partner,Bernard Edwards, who we lost almost twenty
five years ago, I think,or maybe more than that. Yeah,
but rock and roll mouthwash, that'swhat they called champagne. That's I want
to repeat that as many times aspossible, so I don't forget it,
(51:50):
because that's what That's one of thebest slang terms I've ever heard. I've
already forgotten about it, and I'mgonna need you to remind me of that
almost every day. Okay. Ican only imagine how confused you were at
that text that I sent you.I was like, what the hell are
we talking about? What? BecauseI did earlier that same day send send
you a text that I meant tosend my wife a response to her question.
(52:15):
I thought that. I'm like,there's no way, but I didn't
want to ignore you, so Iwas like, huh, what's going on?
Huh. I think that this conversationkind of makes me excited for the
future because we started off so big, Like I mean, how can we
not have exactly no, we canstop us. I'm excited. What do
(52:40):
you have in store for next week? Okay? So we've done We've done
pop, We've done R and B, We've done disco, even though this
was like almost more of like afunk album, and I think disco,
I think like something way more layersof production chic, but it was disco.
Okay, So let's do some rockand I've picked a more contemporary rock
(53:06):
album. It's still twenty years old, but we're gonna do Elephant by the
White Stripes. Okay. I don'tknow how I'm going to feel about this
album revisiting it, but I knowthat this was a big deal for me
when I was in high school.The White Stripes were like the first band,
first rock band of my generation thatI was like, this is really
cool. This is a band thatI'm going to keep up with and we'll
(53:30):
see how it holds up for me. We'll see if it has any value
for you after this time. I'mnervous, but listen, it's called being
a team player. Yeah, that'sthe show, So get uncomfortable. Okay,
great, So you want to saybye, I want to say thank
you to everyone who listened. Ofcourse, hit us up, let us
(53:52):
know what you like about the showand what you don't like about the show.
We're still figuring this thing out.Also, remember that there's nothing that
we could do with our voice.So if you don't min card voices,
then it is what it is.But yeah, send your feedback, like
comment, subscribe, just like youwould a YouTube channel. I think that's
gonna be my new thing. ThatI want to help you. That's just
like solid advice. Oh. Peoplecan leave ratings and reviews too. Yeah,
(54:15):
but if it's under three, keepit to yourself. If you're not
leaving a five star review, don't, don't even bother. We'll take four.
If you want to leave a nastyreview, give it five stars and
then we'll read it on the show. If you give it five, oh
my god, yes, okay,great, that'll be fun. I mean
maybe maybe it won't be fun becauseit'll be too many of them, but
(54:37):
we'll take it. So until nexttime, see you guys. Se complet
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