The Black Perspective: April 6, 2025

This week on the Black Perspective, BIN’s Morgyn Wood speaks with Dr. Uche Ukuku, a licensed psychologist specializing in mental health and trauma, about the importance of healing in our communities.

2025 Gracie Award-winning anchor Esther Dillard talks to HIV activist Janet Kitchen about advocacy and awareness.

Alexandria Ikomoni sits down with legendary producer Zaytoven and his son, artist Zayski, to discuss their creative projects as a father-son duo in 2025. Mimi Brown shares another powerful preview of her podcast To Altadena with Love— Episode 3, spotlighting real stories from Black victims of the Altadena wildfires.

And Doug Davis returns with insight on the future of the Black vote beyond the 2024 election.

Listen now! 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Sunday, April sixth, the first Sunday of the month,
and on today's show the Black Information Networks, Morgan Wood
speaks with doctor uch Ukuku, who is a licensed psychologist
who specializes in mental health and trauma. Twenty twenty five,
Gracie Award winning anchor Ester Dillard talks to HIV activist
Janet Kitchen. Alexandria Ikimoni sits down with producer Zetoven and

(00:21):
his son, artist Zayski about what this father's son duo
is working on for twenty twenty five. Mimi Brown gives
us another preview of To Altadena with Love, her new podcast,
episode three, as she retells real stories from black victims
of the Altadena wildfires. And Doug Davis is back with
insight about the Black vote moving forward past the twenty
twenty four election. These stories and more are coming your

(00:44):
way on today's program, Welcome to the Black Perspective. I'm
your host, Mike Island.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to the Black Perspective, a weekly community affairs program
on the Black Information Network featuring interviews and discussions on
issues important to the Black community.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Good Sunday, Everyone in lowme to the Black perspective the
Black Information networks. Morgan Wood spoke to doctor uch Ukuku
of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She is a licensed psychologist who specializes
in mental health and trauma. She is a first generation
African American by way of her Nigerian parents, and she
is the co founder of the organization Talk Niga to

(01:18):
destigmatize mental health in the Nigerian community.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Joining me on the Black Information Network is doctor Ucha
Akuku of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She is a licensed psychologist who
specializes in mental health and trauma. She is a first
generation African American by the way of her Nigerian parents,
and she is the co founder of an organization, Talk
Nija to destigmatize mental health in the Nigerian community. Thanks

(01:42):
for speaking with me today.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Absolutely, let's jump right into this conversation. As a first
generation Nigerian American, how has culture shaped the way you
approach mental health and trauma?

Speaker 4 (01:57):
It helps me to have a better understanding and background.

Speaker 5 (02:00):
I think a lot of times when we talk about
even mental health, we're not really centering it on immigrants.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
We're not centering on black people.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
Are experiences of black people and how that really changes
like the things that we've experienced, but then also how
we heal, Right, And so when I think about it,
especially in terms of like trauma work, you know, a
lot of trauma work is dispelling shame, and a lot
of times there can be a lot of shame I
think use as a motivator to change behavior sometimes as
in our culture too, where it's like okay, like if

(02:27):
you feel a lot of shame, then you're going to
you know, make these changes. But really thinking about it
as like, no, how I heal is through community. How
I heal is to feel as though like there's restoration
that's available, there's redemptiveness that's available. And I think like
when we really think about like our cultures, like that
is like center to like how.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
We move as people absolutely talk.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Nija focuses on destigmatizing mental health in the Nigerian community.
What are some of the biggest barriers to mental health
awareness and treatment in this space?

Speaker 5 (02:58):
So a lot of times people see mental health disorders
or even getting treatment as like that's what white people do, right,
that's the white man's disease.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
These the white man's healing tools.

Speaker 5 (03:07):
And so first one, getting people to realize like mental
health affects everybody. It does not care about the color
of your skin where you are. But I think also too,
there's a huge religious component to it too, where instead
of using it as like okay, like these two things
can coexist, but sometimes people feel as though like okay,
like if I admit that I'm feeling depressed or anxious,
like there I must be admitting that like God is

(03:29):
failing me or I must have done something wrong to him,
And so helping people to get to this place where
it's like, no, those two things don't have to be separate.
They actually can coexist, and like sometimes you as you pray,
God gives you the resources to be able to seek
the help that you need and not feel as though
those two things have to be separate.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
But in like starting to destigmatize it, it's.

Speaker 5 (03:48):
Like one giving people even language, you know, like because
a lot of times we don't talk about it, or
you think about mental health or disorders and we go
to the very extremes and we don't think about like
day to day type of things, and so it's like
giving people language, giving people also this idea and framework
to think about it, but also to make it more
relatable to them.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
Absolutely, talk to me more about that. So, how do
you think immigrant families struggle with balancing cultural expectations, the
emotional well being, and as well as navigating mental health
while respecting their heritage and also navigating the current political climate.
I'm sure it's a lot.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
No, it's one thousand percent a lot.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
Like and I think about especially if you're thinking like
in an immigrant sense, right, Like everyone comes to America
and it's like, Okay, I'm going to have this dream
I have, right, keep going no matter if I really
don't have it in my tank. And so you have
so many people either like counting on you or you
feel as though sometimes.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
You're like I owe it to them, right, Yeah, so many.

Speaker 5 (04:45):
People suffice for me, So it's like me not being
well in the sense or me being sad, like I
should really get over it because all the people did
all this other stuff. And so I think that's so
it becomes so difficult for people in that space to
feel like, Oh, I can also say I'm struggling, and
it does discount like what I'm doing, and it doesn't
make me less than but it just makes me honest.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Absolutely, I'm speaking with doctor uch Ukuku of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
She is a licensed psychologist who specializes in mental health
and trauma. Talk to me about the black community, how
should the black community approach addressing distrust in the healthcare
system with mental health? And I'm sure it's going to
be like an umbrella thing, but you know what I'm

(05:26):
getting at is there are probably intricacies to it, but
let's talk to it at a high level.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
Yeah, And so one I always tell people, like I
acknowledge the mistrust, right, like there's an understanding, there's a
background to it that a lot of times that it
has been used as a way to pathologize black people
and to other us. Right, but when we think about like,
even while it was utilized in an incorrect way, it
doesn't mean that talking about mental health or accessing therapy

(05:52):
or mental health resources is.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
A bad thing.

Speaker 5 (05:54):
And so I think it's first like we have to
address like I understand why there's the mistrust there, but
also you want to think about if someone has information
or something or a tool for myself to better myself,
can I give it a try? Right, Like if I've
been doing the same thing over and over again, and
I'm not seeing any changes. It's like, I know what
the outcome is going to be if I continue on
that path. I don't know what it could be if

(06:14):
I choose something different and pivot. But then also that
someone can you know, maybe you find a provider that
understands your background and that also encourages you to live
within it.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
That it doesn't have.

Speaker 5 (06:23):
To look very cookie cutter, but you can bring in
your culture and say like, Okay, how do I make
sense of this? And like how can I even explain
this to like family members? And also that you know,
while family is well meaning and we love them, there
might be things that you're like, I don't want to
talk to my family about this, you know, maybe they're not.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Going to give you the best perspective.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Maybe somebody else can absolutely in fact that you're getting
to my next question. While we're on that topic of
families and community, how can we support each other and
having these open conversations around mental health, especially with as
culture plays a role, And where do you think we
should start in terms of what's overlooked? You know, we're

(07:01):
we like to have some hard conversations sometimes, so where
do we need to begin that we're all on the
same page when it comes to this topic.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yeah, I think I think we first when the two
big things that come to me, especially.

Speaker 5 (07:14):
For like Black people, anxiety and then post my extress disorder. Right,
I think as black people, we have there are high
levels of anxiety, but we present it very differently. Sometimes
for some people they present it as like anger. Other
people they present it as like being a super go getter.
And so you're doing all of the things because you're
trying to, you know, ignore certain stuff, and you're like,
I'm just gonna avoid that. That's not a big deal

(07:35):
right now, so let me just focus on this. And
so I like to talk to people starting with that
and then transition into trauma because sometimes trauma is like
a harder subject.

Speaker 6 (07:42):
For people to like start to get it right.

Speaker 5 (07:44):
But when we start with anxiety, everyone remembers the time
where they felt anxious or worried or they felt like,
you know, I maybe I'm not living up to expectations
that my parents set out for me, Like am I
doing enough?

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Am I being enough?

Speaker 5 (07:55):
And being able to say, like everyone there's a commonality
that there's been a time in our life where.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
We've all experience this.

Speaker 5 (08:01):
How can we start to address it, how can we
start to change it? But then from there it's usually
a little thread that I helped to get people to like, Okay,
are there certain experiences in your past that have potentially.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
Led to you feeling anxious in this moment? Right?

Speaker 5 (08:14):
Have there been you know, traumatic experiences or ways that
you were spoken to or like things that you've internalized
that then that's a part of the reason why you
feel so anxious.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Now, what advice do you have for people who may
be struggling in that space that wants to just push forward,
push through.

Speaker 7 (08:31):
I got it, I'll figure it out.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
As opposed to seeking professional help, I say slow down.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
I think that's always the first thing.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
It's like we spend so much of our time trying
to run from problems, and like avoidance works until it doesn't,
and usually when it stops working, it's.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Like in a major way.

Speaker 5 (08:48):
And so you want to almost think about it for yourself,
like do I want to be the thing that stops me?
Or do I want these other things to stop me?
Because after a while, if I keep running, I'm gonna
get tired. If I never you know, if you're always
driving your car back and forth from California to Georgia.
You never get a tune up like the car's gonna
fall apart. It doesn't mean the car wasn't well built,
It doesn't mean that it didn't have all the parts,
but it just meant like there was no maintenance to it.

(09:10):
And so when we think about your own mental health,
you want to say, like, how can I give myself
some healthy maintenance?

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Right?

Speaker 5 (09:17):
How can I maybe unpack certain things? And maybe it
feels like I'm pulling all the things like apart, but
it's so I.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Can be better.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Absolutely, And before I let you go, because I'm just
like you're just you're running it down, running it down,
running down. Is there anything that you want to share
that I may not have touched on? I mean I
always say you don't know what you don't know, and
I don't know what I don't know. You are the
mental health expert here, So is there anything that you
would like to touch on that I did not?

Speaker 5 (09:48):
I would say, like, there are so many times where
we normalize abnormal behaviors or abnormal situations. I think, especially
ones that potentially like have have happened in families, right,
And so I for people when you start normalize certain
like experiences and not being able to see like, oh
maybe this wasn't okay that this happened, or it wasn't
okay that this is how we've like kind of.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Like shape certain things. Then you're able to say, okay,
what do I want my life to look like now?

Speaker 8 (10:12):
Right?

Speaker 5 (10:13):
And so it's not so you feel like alone or
you feel like, oh my gosh, it's it's crazy, but
it's like, you know, sometimes some things that we've normalized
aren't really normal. And your reaction was a normal reaction
to an abnormal event. But now how do you want
to see it? How do you want to move forward
in your life?

Speaker 3 (10:28):
That's a very interesting take. Doctor uch Ukuku, she is
a licensed psychologist who specializes in mental health and trauma.
How can we continue to follow the work that you
do and you know, around mental health, around trauma and
of course with talk Nija.

Speaker 5 (10:45):
Yes, so you can follow me on Instagram at doctor Ukuku,
so d are uk Uku and then also talk Nija
org talk in Aija org for Instagram.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
That's where we put most of our latest updates.

Speaker 5 (10:58):
We do a lot of educational p both on my
page and also on the Toknija page to talk more
about mental health.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
We also have the Tokniga.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
Therapy Fine which has been amazing thing, a baby of ours,
where we fund people to go to therapy because we
also know that there can be a barrier due to
financial constraints that people don't seek help, and so there's
ways for you to invest in that and then also
to be able to be a recipient of that too.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Absolutely, you are doing good work. I appreciate you joining
us on the Black Information Network.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
I'm Morgan Wood on the Black Information Network.

Speaker 9 (11:29):
And that was doctor ut Okuku.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Thank you Morgan and doctor Ukukuo. For more information, go
to www dot doctor aucukou dot com. Mimi Brown is
back to take us inside the heart of a California
community forever changed.

Speaker 10 (11:41):
By the Eating Fire.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
In episode three of her five part docu series To
Altadena with Love, we hear from Stacy Mitchell, who shares
the chaotic moments of evacuating her family and the troubling
delays and evacuation orders for the west side of town.

Speaker 11 (11:56):
Well, what happened that night wasn't just a natural disaster.
Are also calling it a failure. A new study from
UCLA confirms what so many already knew. Black families in
Altadena were more likely to lose their home, more likely
to suffer catastrophic damage, and now face a much harder

(12:16):
road to recovery. Sixty one percent of black households in
Altadena were within the fire's perimeter, compared to fifty percent
of non black households. Nearly half of black homes were
leveled or severely damaged, compared to thirty seven percent of
non black homes. The numbers don't lie, and neither does

(12:38):
the history. The fire tore through Altadena's West Side, a
historically black neighborhood where families found home ownership only after
being locked out of wealthier white communities decades ago. Redlining
policies kept black families west of Lake Avenue, suppressing home
values but ultimately allowing them to buy. By nineteen seventy

(13:02):
seventy percent of black residents in Alta DINA owned their homes,
nearly double the rate of black home ownership across Los
Angeles County. Now, those same homes, those same legacies, are gone,
and while the flames did not discriminate, many are questioning
whether the response time did. Seventeen lives were lost, all

(13:26):
of them on Altadena's West side. On January seventh. Evacuation
orders for the east side of town were sent out
at seven twenty four PM, just about an hour after
the fire started, but on the west side, the first
orders didn't come until three point thirty am, about eight
hours later. By then, entire blocks had already burned. Families

(13:49):
were trapped, neighbors were calling for help that never came,
and perhaps the most damning part, according to the La Times,
fire crews were already receiving calls about homes on fire
prior to midnight. Seventeen people never made it out. Many
of them were older, some had mobility issues. Some never

(14:11):
even knew the fire was closing in. I Mimi Brown,
and in this series you'll hear stories told firsthand by
the people who lived them. These are their stories, their memories,
and their truth. This is to Alta Dina with love.
Meet Stacy Mitchell.

Speaker 12 (14:30):
I've lived all over Altadena throughout my life, born and raised,
and our home was.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
On the west side.

Speaker 12 (14:38):
That's where we bought our home in nineteen ninety nine.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
We've been there ever since.

Speaker 12 (14:41):
We raised all three of our children, and we started
with our granddaughter there who's now six, and my husband
and I, you know, we bought it and started making
it ours and you know, transitioning it and remodeling and
adding on and making more space and really making it ours.
We were at our sweets, you know, but such as life.

(15:04):
So let me tell you what was crazy. What was
crazy was we already had a power outer. So I
was at the gym. When I leave the gym, I
come home, we don't have no power. The wind was blowing.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
It was crazy. We already knew that these are.

Speaker 12 (15:15):
Conditions that we are that we are familiar with. We're
familiar with a lot of wind, We're familiar with a
lot of debris, trees falling down.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
That's not out of the ordinary for where we live.

Speaker 9 (15:26):
So I get home and.

Speaker 12 (15:27):
The powers out. So I was like, oh, I was
at the gym. I could have took a shower at
the gym. I was like, now I gotta take a call.
I was like, but I gotta take a shower. Because
my son had a game. It was his first league
game that night. He left early, and then my husband
and I we went to the game. And as we're
driving across the outstating to drive when we leave. By
the time it come like kind of like out of
our street and like up we see the sky is
like pink.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
I think the fire.

Speaker 12 (15:49):
Started like six fifteen, six thirty, So we didn't know
that we were right there as it was beginning, like
it was just about to pop off, and they hadn't stopped.
I mean, you know, police cars are kind of driving
by us. Their sirens are coming on. They're just the
riding to the scene. We see the guys who we
who I believed were you know, men who maybe you're

(16:11):
in fire camp, pulling up and they're just getting there,
like pulling on their pants, tightening their belts.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
They're just arriving, and.

Speaker 12 (16:18):
You know, and we crept by and I took video,
you know, and then I went on. We went on
to the game, and then we get to the game
and I'm kind of like, this game.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
Is still happening, like no, and it's.

Speaker 12 (16:31):
It was on the route, but it was close enough
to make me think, I wonder why they haven't evacuated
this game or stop.

Speaker 8 (16:38):
This game or like.

Speaker 12 (16:39):
But I didn't realize how fresh it was.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
So we got there, it was took us longer than usual.

Speaker 12 (16:44):
So by the time we get in, it's about halfway
through the first quarter, and we watch about five minutes
of the game and everybody is feeling some kind of way.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
I'm like, can you use you?

Speaker 11 (16:55):
Like?

Speaker 4 (16:55):
You know, we're all talking. I'm like, I don't understand.

Speaker 12 (16:57):
Like they canceled this day, day, shut up, shut And
at the end of that quarter they said, that's it, folks.
You know, everybody needs to evacuate immediately. Everybody go home.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
That was just a glimpse of to Alzadina with Love,
a powerful new podcast from Bi n anchor Mimi Brown,
Episode three is available tomorrow. We now hear from a
courageous woman who faced a lot of shame and stigma
when she was diagnosed with HIV. Medical professionals assumed the
reason for her diagnosis stemmed from a checkered past of
sexual partners, and when she told them the only man

(17:29):
she was with was her husband, she got a lot
of people who did not believe her. She spoke to
the Black Information Networks Ester Dillard and this week's The
Color Between the Lines.

Speaker 13 (17:40):
On this edition of The Color Between the Lines.

Speaker 14 (17:42):
Having to explain this to my son and two family members.

Speaker 13 (17:47):
We speak to HIV eighth activist Janet Kitchen about her
incredible journey. She was diagnosed with HIV in two thousand
and five, and since then she's been on a mission
to make sure women of color married or not know
their status and Avid kating for the rights of people
living with HIV. I'm esther Dinard chatting with writers, authors
and experts who offer and added perspective for listeners. This

(18:09):
is the color between the Lines. This week on the
Color between the Lines, I had the honor of speaking
with a woman who had been through a lot in
her life. She was a breast cancer survivor, wife and
mom who was shocked in two thousand and five by

(18:31):
an alarming medical crisis. My understanding is that you were
not one that you were kind of a mom's daughter
next door in Yeah, can you talk a little bit
about your life and how you receive this diagnosis.

Speaker 14 (18:48):
So I moved to Florida and just I finished battling
breast cancervice diagnosed in nineteen ninety eight, and everything was
going well. But I started to feel very weak and
mimic the symptoms, mimic what I had with breast cancers.
So I'm like, oh God, this is back. You know,
the weakness, not unable to eat, severe diarrhea, all the

(19:09):
textbook things that I learned later.

Speaker 8 (19:12):
So finally I had to go to the hospital.

Speaker 14 (19:16):
And when I was there in the hospital trying to
find out was wrong, I think with alarmy said they
did take an HRIV test because of you know, the
white blood cells were so bad, so they quote thew
on colleges in and only to find out they said, let's.

Speaker 8 (19:29):
Take an NTRIV test.

Speaker 14 (19:31):
They bore the infectious disease octor on board to find
out that my test was negative.

Speaker 8 (19:37):
So I was not getting any better.

Speaker 14 (19:38):
And when the doctor said, up, if you're a praying woman,
I need you to pray because I have no idea.

Speaker 8 (19:44):
What's wrong with you.

Speaker 14 (19:45):
So as soon as I am bad, as I got
all of a sudden, then I bounced back and I
got better, which was really good, but I was still
experiencing the symptoms. And then finally my regular doctor, he
was not there for my regular physical my prime married
doctor and his wife is also that works in saying practice.
She said, well, jannalistic and antribute tests because I said,

(20:06):
I've lost twenty pounds within a couple of weeks, like
six weeks. So I said okay, and she said because
she knows, She's like.

Speaker 8 (20:14):
No, I feel bad. I don't. I said, no, let's
do it.

Speaker 7 (20:16):
She said no.

Speaker 8 (20:17):
I said, look, let's sec to damn tests, you know,
let's find out. And when she took it and.

Speaker 14 (20:23):
Came back positive, and so our husband then was back
my doctor and said, you know, he sat me down,
but he did prepare some of my really good friends
to come to He didn't tell him what it was,
but he said, Jane's teach the test was positive.

Speaker 8 (20:37):
Just moving fast forward.

Speaker 14 (20:39):
And so I knew about HIV, know a little about
A but not knowing what categories were more vulnerable or
anything like that, because you know, we have that myth
that it has to be someone that is what they
say promission is that has a lot of I guess,
savory behavior patterns, you know, this whole thing about behavior.

Speaker 8 (21:02):
So when I found out, I my husband I.

Speaker 14 (21:04):
Had just separated, and I told him my test was positive,
and he said, well, I don't know about you, but
I feel okay, it's wrong with.

Speaker 8 (21:10):
Me, So I said to the doctor.

Speaker 14 (21:13):
So of course the health apartment came and the health
department told me his was negative, and I'm like negative.

Speaker 8 (21:18):
So that my doctor said, it's not true. We have
to get these test.

Speaker 14 (21:22):
And so after I finally went with him to the
health department and the test was positive.

Speaker 8 (21:29):
So it was really really I mean, which the shock.

Speaker 14 (21:32):
So what I did then is that, you know, of
course I had to read more, then had to find care.
I am a retired and retired from the government. I
was a postal worker. So I got my medication. I
went to the pharmacy to fill it, only to find
out my portion was like nine hundred a month.

Speaker 8 (21:50):
This is back into in two thousand and five. There's
a nine hundred a month.

Speaker 14 (21:54):
So I called the doctor if I said, you know,
because they were my friends, I'm like, I can't afford
nine hundred a month. And her outcome was really her
response was really not very compassionate. She said, well, you
may have to just work in McDonald's yet so you
can make the extra money at home.

Speaker 8 (22:09):
My hortifications are going up.

Speaker 14 (22:11):
So I said, I'm weak. So that started my advocacy.
That's the beginning. That's why I tell you that story.
So then I went to the health department to go
get some help.

Speaker 8 (22:26):
You know. That helped me with medication, because that's what
I was told that Dave job is to do to
find out. They don't help anyone that has insurance. So
he said, if you didn't have insurance, I'm glad to
help you. But since you have insurance, I get help.

Speaker 14 (22:40):
Because back then they had not established the ruling that
it was a supplement for private insurance for insurance. So
I had to figure out a way to get money.
So I found that there was a group that meets
you know, it's the Writing White carerackt as a whole
in there in all different areas.

Speaker 8 (22:57):
So after the meeting, I said, I up and it
was like any question. I said, I need help. I
need to get medicine, and nobody can help me. Am
I supposed said Doe. After the meeting, everyone came to me.
They did whatever they could to help me. Part to
of the journey that wasn't really recepted the.

Speaker 14 (23:17):
Questions that was asking me then that was forty seven
was okay, I need to have the neighbor boy your
sexual partners, which is a common thing for any communable disease,
any sexual transmitting functions. So I thought, okay, So I
gave them my husband's name and she said, Okay, who else?

Speaker 8 (23:36):
And I said, I'll know what you mean, and she said, oh, come.

Speaker 14 (23:39):
On, I really think so that was the beginning of
the insult to me not knowing this whole stigma. That
was the word that I'm going to learn then that
that's I was starting.

Speaker 13 (23:50):
You had to go through a lot to get to
getting the help what I guess led to finally where
people started to listen and give you the help that
you needed.

Speaker 14 (24:02):
So I kept going to the health department. I kept
going back and forth, and then there was a I
guess a legislation that had passed that said that they
will now help the monetary and they realized really that
it would be better to add a supplement to someone
with insurance as opposed to trying to pay for the
whole entire insurance. And then I ran into another wall

(24:24):
because I was able to work. I was told that
I made I think twelve dollars too much over the
amount and they couldn't pay for my medication. So the
general that was in front of me was a retired
better employment employee as well, I think he was in
the military.

Speaker 8 (24:45):
And I said to.

Speaker 14 (24:45):
Him, I'm not going to leave this room until you
figure out, okay, how you have to strapolate the numbers
until you figure out I'm going to get the mess
because I'm not going to die because I had the
nerve or go to work.

Speaker 13 (24:56):
You're not going to do well.

Speaker 14 (24:59):
And he did say, it you stopped working, we'll be
able to take care of and I said, I've worked
all my life.

Speaker 8 (25:04):
That's not going to happen. So when I said to.

Speaker 14 (25:06):
Him, probably one of the biggest start of my advocacy,
I said, I'm going to sit right here until.

Speaker 8 (25:10):
I said, you're a smart man. I'm going to sit here.

Speaker 14 (25:13):
Until you figure out how you can strapolate this twelve
dollars for me to get my medication.

Speaker 8 (25:19):
And he said he. I kept sitting there and he says, Jane,
and I'm going to call the security. I said, well,
that'd be nice, and I'll meet them too, but I'm
not moving until you figured out a way.

Speaker 14 (25:28):
If we're talking about twelve dollars in my life, I'm
going to city. And we had a stand on Thybe
about fifteen minutes and he kept typing and keep the
saying jan and I came Saint George and we went
back and forth, and finally he said I found the
one and I said, I got my medication.

Speaker 13 (25:46):
Just so I have it correct. You were diagnosed at
what age? Twenty seven forty seven and you had been
married for how long?

Speaker 8 (25:54):
Three years?

Speaker 4 (25:55):
Three years?

Speaker 13 (25:56):
So it's interesting you started, like a lot of people
get married really young, you married not so young, and
then you had this major crisis what along the way?
I know that, of course, the diagnosis is probably one
of the main things that inspired you to establish this organization.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
Called Positively You.

Speaker 13 (26:17):
But what else inspired you to do this? And what
is your mission now in terms of where you are today?

Speaker 8 (26:26):
Okay, so this is my second marriage, was it my first?
I got married young. I have a son who works
with me, and Positively You one of the biggest champions.

Speaker 14 (26:35):
But what inspired me really it was the constant walls
hitting walls, hitting walls, and then the I guess, I
guess the audacity to think that a person living with
HIV could not advocate for themselves at no point deserve
the utmost customer service just from the door, the complace

(27:01):
of it was not having very nice clean places things
like that.

Speaker 8 (27:05):
Was like, and I have a really good friend that
was with me in.

Speaker 14 (27:08):
The beginning, and I said, to him and he recited
it back about a month ago that I said, Goded,
there's ever a way that I can get an organization.
I'm going to show them how they can treat a
person living with HIV. And that really started because the
walls were just bumping into walls and just bumping into attitudes.

Speaker 8 (27:28):
And one of the main things that I wanted to
find a support group.

Speaker 14 (27:31):
I wanted to meet other women, in particularly other black
women living with HIV that it had similar situations, similar backgrounds,
And finally I found a support group.

Speaker 8 (27:42):
It took.

Speaker 14 (27:44):
I think it took about eight months for me to
find a support group because my only support system then
were gay white men who were very compassionate and very loving.
And I finally found a support group where women, when
I say lived, experience the same thing that contracted HIV
from their husband who thought they were in a monogorous
relationship and what was not.

Speaker 8 (28:05):
So it made me feel better like I wasn't crazy.

Speaker 13 (28:08):
Yeah, yeah, the common denominator. What would you say with
the women that you have met at positively you as
far as their situation, was it a husband that was
on the down low or was it someone that was
just more or less having multiple partners outside or what
was happening with most of the women that you've come

(28:28):
in contact with? And and how are you how do
you how do you support each other when you do meet?

Speaker 8 (28:34):
Okay, so being very fear on words because words are important.
The word down low is really a derogatory word. One
would believe that that it's good, and I know it's
a word that people put around. So men that have
sex with men and women are called bisexual now rather
they tell you it's the difference where that word that
alone came from. But it's just that they're bisexual. Uh

(28:55):
So for my bisexual brothers, I have to stand up
for them.

Speaker 14 (28:58):
Now many may say, don't say, just like men that
have multiple partners don't tell you they have multiple partners.
I really definitely cannot say if my husband is bisexual,
but it had to be multiple partners, you know, I
don't what I've learned that you can't actually really be
confident of anyone but yourself.

Speaker 8 (29:19):
You don't know where anyone is there.

Speaker 14 (29:21):
And I'm not saying that to anyone that may think
that their partner is not monogamous.

Speaker 13 (29:26):
You just don't know what are your aspirations. I guess
for positively You in the future and and goals.

Speaker 7 (29:34):
In the in the in the years ahead.

Speaker 14 (29:37):
So given the climate now, one of the things that
I know we have to do so we have to
have multiple streams of income and services. And so I'm
challenging this is one of my goals that I gave myself,
challenger and how I can bring other fundings in without
only depending on, you know, granting government fundings. I've said

(29:58):
this in the beginning of Tuesday was a shock for
everyone to really think of those gears. So one of
them is to try to find other ways to bring
in more funding so that we can stretch larger and wider.
I do want to open another office, but I do
want to open it in the most rural area where
they're not getting this kind of help that they really need.

Speaker 13 (30:20):
Are there any ways that people can get in who
want to get involved with positively You? How are they
how are you hoping that they would contribute? And how
do they get in touch with you?

Speaker 14 (30:30):
Okay, so I meant positively you dot org. We own
all of the positiviview, dot org, dot info, all of that.

Speaker 8 (30:39):
So just remember positively the.

Speaker 14 (30:41):
Letter view, not why are you one of the things
that we really need, I would say to you are
volunteers to come help. And we are now in the
climate again that we're in. We're in the need of
having food because repeat every morning on house.

Speaker 8 (30:58):
Individuals come to our office to get food. And we
do need gently use clothes because we have a clothing
closet that we let individuals come get closed. So at
ww dot positively you dot org would be.

Speaker 13 (31:10):
Great, wondered you know, for someone who's a woman who
may be faced with something similar to what you've gone
through and they're at the beginning of their journey, what
would you say to them.

Speaker 14 (31:24):
There's hope, there are a lot of avenues for them
to reach out more than before. There are organizations that
would advise them just to look up organizations like positively
You and there are a lot of organizations.

Speaker 8 (31:39):
That could help them, but before it was very, very limited.
And just make sure that you're getting the treatment and
the and feel welcome when you walk and from the
time you're there at the door, that's the beginning, that's
the face of the organization when you walk in the door.
And if not, you know, don't feel just may you know.

Speaker 13 (31:56):
Keep trying that's it for this edition of The Color
Between the Line. For more episodes, go to The Color
Between the Lines podcast on iHeartMedia or wherever you find
your podcast. I'm Ester Dillard.

Speaker 10 (32:08):
Thanks Esther producer.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Zetoven is the man behind some of your favorite rap hits,
including so Icy by Young Jeze and Gucci Mane and
celebrating twenty years of success. But now he's helping his
son shine in the entertainment industry as well. The Black
Information Networks Alexandria Ikimoni sat down with the father and
son duo as big things.

Speaker 7 (32:27):
LI ahead, what's up guys, He's a girl.

Speaker 15 (32:29):
Alexandria Ikamoni in the studio iHeartRadio with Zetoven and Zayski.

Speaker 7 (32:34):
How you doing today.

Speaker 9 (32:36):
We're doing good, good good.

Speaker 7 (32:38):
Happy to have you guys in studio.

Speaker 9 (32:39):
By the way, Yeah, we're glad to be here.

Speaker 7 (32:41):
Yes, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 15 (32:43):
Now we have a great thing to talk about, starting
off with celebrating the success of Zaytobin, your biggest one
of your biggest hits, so icye with Gucci and with
Jezi and also Zayski. You got an album coming out
very very soon. I cannot wait to get in to
all of it, But I do want to start off
with the twenty five year anniversary of that hit so Icy.

Speaker 9 (33:05):
So I would want to say it more like twenty years.

Speaker 7 (33:08):
Oh, okay, let me add year.

Speaker 9 (33:11):
We wait, we want that twenty five years to come too.

Speaker 12 (33:13):
Coming.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Oh.

Speaker 9 (33:14):
It's amazing to me because I never dreamed about being
zaytoven So to make a song that was big twenty
years ago. I remember hearing it on the radio for
the first time, hearing it in the club for the
first time, and I was just like, Wow, what's so
crazy is? I thought I got lucky. I thought like
that was going to be the only time that I

(33:35):
had a big song that did as good as it did.
But here it is twenty years later and we still
let it.

Speaker 15 (33:40):
Yeah, absolutely, and let's talk about that. I just want
to reminisce really quick twenty years ago. What was it
like that process of really just getting that out or
the single, I should say, to where it is today,
or was it like getting those two artists together, or
how did that exactly all go back in the day
for you?

Speaker 9 (33:57):
So, back in the day, me and Gucci was just
working every day. I had a studio in my parents' basement,
I was a new kid in town really, you know,
with my own studio. And then Gucci was a guy
from around the way. He loved my music, he loved
the beats I was making, and we just started yelling.
We just started working with each other every day, just

(34:18):
making music, song after song, you know, taking whatever song
we made, take it to the club, try to get
it played. And we was really doing it. I know,
for me, I was doing it for my own enjoyment.
I just love to get the CD, put it in
the car and ride to it and listen to it. Yeah.
So at the time, young Jeszu was like the newest, hottest,

(34:38):
biggest artist coming you know, out of Atlanta, and he and
Gucci was like, man, Jeszu want to do a song
with me? So we went. I went, I remember, couldn't
hear at the barber shop and Gucci Corp. And said, man,
Jeszu want to do a song with hers. I left
the barbershop, went home, met Gucci at my parents' house,
made the beat, and went down the patchwork studio. I
remember just sitting around waiting till Jesz at the time

(35:00):
for us to come in and do the song. We
did this song by the end of the night, everybody
in the studio listening to the music like, but it's
a hit. We got to hit, and you know how
you can somebody can say that. It's like, okay, that's
what's up. We got to hit. It wasn't to start
circulating on mixtapes and then it's on a countdown on

(35:21):
the radio. Then it's the number one song on the radio.
Then it's like, oh, we got to hit. You gotta
hit straight up.

Speaker 7 (35:28):
I love it.

Speaker 15 (35:28):
Everybody knew it from day one, and it, like you said,
it's a hit till this day, is still getting played.

Speaker 7 (35:33):
So we absolutely love it.

Speaker 15 (35:35):
And you've worked and produced for some of the greats
you mentioned two of them right there, but also Migo's future.
I mean, the list goes on here. Who would you
say was or is your favorite to work with?

Speaker 9 (35:47):
Now that's a hard you can't say. You can't ask
me that.

Speaker 7 (35:50):
Because you're just curious and else.

Speaker 9 (35:53):
So I have to say, out of all due respect,
I have to say it have to be Gucci. Now,
I don't work with a lot of big artists that
I love working with. I love everybody you name. I
really love being in the studio working with them, but
it was something about Gucci that we started together. We
came up together. Our first big song was together. You know,

(36:16):
our first couple of songs that got notified was you know,
we did that together. We made a sound together. So
it's always gonna have to be Gucci. Yeah.

Speaker 15 (36:25):
Makes a lot of sense though, and a lot of
respect to him as well. And now you get to
really just do a lot of work now with your
son Zaysky working producing together. So let's talk about it.
What is it like, you know, having one of the
business greats, if you will, working with you on really

(36:46):
everything that you have going on.

Speaker 6 (36:47):
Your end, it's a it's a gift in the curse,
you know. Yeah, it comes with its benefits. Like you know,
when it comes down the beats, I don't gotta ask
nobody he made the beat. Or if I want a
particularly beat, yeah, walk downstairs, they dad it boom be
like that. If I need to help with something that
involved music, he's right there. But then the curse part
is to be people trying to talk to me, yeah,

(37:08):
and then they just trying to get to him. I
got friends who want to be cool because you know,
I'm his son, or it is what it is, but no,
for the most part of blessing.

Speaker 15 (37:17):
Yeah, but you're also making your own lane, so we
gotta put some respect on that for the people who
are messing with it. But let's talk about having that guidance,
because I mean, it's a blessing, like you said, to
have somebody who is in your corner really guiding you.
How has he really helped you navigate this new business.

Speaker 6 (37:33):
I'll be honest. When I first started making music, he
ain't helped me, not one.

Speaker 7 (37:36):
Bit, really, And now why Dad, he didn't really?

Speaker 6 (37:38):
I mean I didn't really tell him I was doing it.
I mean he knew I was doing it. But like
I played basketball at the time, soly thing it's gonna
go nowhere serious Like we thought I was going to
go to the NBA.

Speaker 9 (37:47):
I was so.

Speaker 6 (37:48):
Serious about basketball, and until it got to a point
where I was like, okay, basketball, I know basketball ain't
gonna work out. I gotta seim have to focus on
music or I don't know, find something to do. Turn
up focusing on music. And then you know, I'm telling
him that now you're starting to get involved, like okay, okay,
well you need to do this or let me make
it be for you like this, Yeah, yeah, yeah, But
as far as like production wise, you know, I use

(38:10):
a whole nother daw than he does. He uses pro tools.
I use a doll called fl Studio, and he don't
really you know, heg.

Speaker 9 (38:18):
That's the young kid.

Speaker 15 (38:19):
Yeah right, that makes a lot of sense. So just
talk about that for a quick second. Why did you
think basketball was going to work for you? Because you
were really, like you said, focus on that for so long.
What happened there?

Speaker 6 (38:33):
Realizing realization reality, I'm not the biggest, I'm not the tallest,
I'm not the fastest, I'm not the strongest, I ain't
had the best grades. Like it was just I mean,
I probably could have done it, but I would have
to work extremely, extremely, extremely extremely hard, even though I
got to work hard with the music stuff. But like,
there's plenty of kids that's my height, stronger than me,

(38:53):
faster than me, or who wanted more than me. I
wanted it, but not as bad as the next person.
Did you know?

Speaker 11 (38:58):
It?

Speaker 6 (38:59):
B B like that? And I thought to myself, I
was like, do I really want to do this the
rest of my life? I don't want to east leave
basketball all day, wake up, school, basketball, it's basketball out
of town basketball, Like, well, yeah, I ain't really want
to do that.

Speaker 10 (39:09):
I get it.

Speaker 7 (39:10):
I get it.

Speaker 15 (39:10):
So, Dad, having him come into the music industry, what
were your thoughts at first, Like were you on board
with him doing this and pursuing this career or did
you want something else for him since you've been in
the business for so long.

Speaker 9 (39:22):
So early on, I was trying to make him do music,
you know, because this is what I do. Yeah, And
he was just a cool kid.

Speaker 13 (39:30):
He was.

Speaker 9 (39:31):
He was a child that I kept with me everywhere
I went. Even when I'm making music at home in
the basement, he's in a walker, he's right there. You know,
He's just with me all the time. So and naturally
I'm doing music. Yeah, I would want him to do music.
I started writing rap for him. We were doing videos.
He would do all the school talent show, so, you know,

(39:52):
we started doing it, you know, back when he was
real young. But like he said, when he started getting
in high school and you start you know, playing and
sports and all that, then you you kind of shift
to like, oh, this is what I really want to do.
This is what I'm involved in. I've been playing music
in church all my life, and I love music. But
when I got to high school and I started playing sports,
you know, when you make the basketball team and you

(40:14):
scoring some points and the girls screaming your name, It's like, no,
this is what I want. This is what I hear
about right here. So I totally understand where he coming
You know where he's coming from because I did the
same exact thing. It wasn't until I graduated high school
and realized, like, man, I can't play no basketball. I can't.
I'm not gonna be good enough to play with these

(40:36):
you know, play with these people. I ain't gonna go
no farther than this right here and it all and
then I reverted back to where music is what I
love to do. It's easy to me. It comes natural.
So with him, like he said, a lot of the
music he started doing was kind of on his own.
It ain't really Dad, I need some beats or this
and that. Its just he kind of just I guess

(40:58):
start learning f Ellen wanted to record. I didn't know
how serious he was taking it until, you know, was it. TikTok.
TikTok is what probably made him.

Speaker 6 (41:10):
Really that want to because then I, you know, I
started realizing I started seeing people actually like my music.

Speaker 9 (41:16):
Music inside my family, it was like how to do it?
You know, and so that platform probably encouraged him to
be like, no, I want to keep doing this. So
I had to hear about how big he was. I mean,
he'll tell me how big he was, but I'm not
on TikTok, so I don't really know. You know, you
know how your kids tell you, yeah, I'm missing that
I'm doing this, and they's like yeah, yeah, okay, so
keep doing it. Yeah yeah, get ready to go to school.

(41:40):
It wasn't n til it's like, you know, I started
getting calls from like labels and people asking me about him,
and they didn't even know he was my son. It's like,
we're trying to get in touch with this kid from
Atlanta and they send me to Instagram. I'm like, that's
my son. So you know, it kind of went like that.
So naturally hearing that, you know, we both kind of

(42:03):
just said, Okay, now it's time to lock in with
each other. We got something going. But I really love
the fact that he did get moving on his own
with not using me as a crutch, So now it
makes sense to oh, no, now I'm finn show y'all
that this my dad, and we finna even go even harder.

Speaker 7 (42:21):
I love that. I love that.

Speaker 15 (42:22):
So talking about you know, him really just navigating and
really shining in this business, in this industry, what are
some of the biggest lessons you feel like you have
taught safe Sky in this business or about this business.

Speaker 9 (42:35):
Well, the biggest thing I've been been teaching and telling
him about it is this is a consistent game. You know,
even though you did something on tiktoking to get hirt
and go viral or whatever, in about another week or two,
people forget about what you did yesterday, and it's like,
what can you do for me? Now? What you got? Now?

(42:56):
What's new? So it's just keeping him, you know, keeping
his mind, I said, on working and grinding and consistently
chasing you know that same high, Like that's a high
one your song blows up and you go viral in
this you know, and now I'm the talk of the town.
But what happens when that goes away? You know, you

(43:17):
can't just live off of that. So and that's how
I would like, so Icy, what was that for me?
You know, I didn't know. I was like, I don't
know if I can do that again. But I was
working hard enough to say, bro, I want that feeling again.
I want that feeling of my song is on the
radio or people talking about Zaytoven. So that's one of
the biggest things that I think ladists struggle with. And
you know, I'm definitely teaching him. Uh you know those things.

(43:40):
I love it. I love it.

Speaker 15 (43:41):
Do you agree or do you feel like there's another
bigger lesson they've been learning.

Speaker 7 (43:45):
Okay, I love itectives here, right, So let's.

Speaker 15 (43:48):
Talk about this new album you have coming out. What
can people expect Drop Day all the good stuff?

Speaker 6 (43:54):
Can't I ain't gonna lie. I can't even I can't
even give too much drop date.

Speaker 7 (43:58):
Still working on it.

Speaker 6 (44:00):
Yeah, but as far as like production, you're gonna hear
a little bit of everything, because you know, I might
be a little bit singing in there, it's gonna be
some rapping in there, gonna be and then it's gonna
be like a little mixture of both, like melodic music.

Speaker 7 (44:12):
I love it. Do you have any features that are
gonna be on it?

Speaker 9 (44:15):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (44:16):
Yeah, yeah, okay, but you know I can't.

Speaker 7 (44:17):
You can't give me one name. He's like, no, no, no,
we're gonna keep it on the get it. I get it. Okay,
So you're talking about the singing.

Speaker 15 (44:24):
We know you have some different influences there, so let's
know what songs or how many songs are a portion
are dedicated to ladies, because sometimes you do do things
for the ladies. So what is that like from from
this album perspective?

Speaker 6 (44:37):
I got so this this is how I got it
set up as of right now. Okay, I'm gonna do
probably like like twelve songs, but how I just named
you how I'm gonna do some rap, ye, some singing,
and some like melodic. I got it sessioned off to
where I'm gonna do four singing, four rap, and then
like four that's melodic. But I got were talking about singing,

(44:59):
but I got a million songs and singing like I
do that all the time. But TikTok. They one day
they liked my singing, the next day they like me rapping.
So it's like why not give them? Why not give
them both?

Speaker 9 (45:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (45:11):
I get it, I get it.

Speaker 15 (45:11):
So is aytoven for you? Of course you work with
some amazing people. Are there any artists or rappers or
singers that you would like to work with in the future,
or you're like, I'm good, I paid my dudes, you know,
or to.

Speaker 9 (45:24):
Be honest with you now, I like working with the new,
up and coming guys that's making noise. Like all the
people you name, all the artists that you name that
I work with, I worked with them when they were
the up and coming new artists. I never was like,

(45:44):
none of those artists. I never worked with them after
they was, you know, a big artist. It's always when
they was going to come up. So when people ask
me that, it's like, I don't work with you know,
some of everybody. One of my dream collapse just happened
not too long ago. I worked with a gospel singing
a boy the name of Tasha Cobbs for her new project.

(46:05):
But like dream collapses, you know, it's the new guy
like me working with Zay. Working with him is like
the best collapse for me because it just makes me
fresh all over again. It brings me new sounds, you know,

(46:25):
bring me It just widens who I am. And that's
the reason I feel like I've been around for so
long is because all the people you name is like
Zay was working with them on the come up. So
it makes me new all over again. So twenty years later,
I'm working with him. I'm more excited about him than
a big artist I've been working with, of.

Speaker 7 (46:45):
Course, which makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 15 (46:46):
So when you are, like you said, you're typically working
with these artists when they're on the come up, what
do you see in that artist specifically where it's like, yes,
I do want to work with him. I see this,
I see that, I see that. What are those I
guess all of these that you typically notice and artists
because you haven't been wrong yet. So how can you
tell a star before they're a star?

Speaker 9 (47:08):
It's just the it factor. It's something you can't really
put your finger on. It's like they might be a
great rapper, or they might not be a great rapper.
They might dress a certain way, they might carry themselves
a certain way, they might talk funny, look funny. Whatever
it is, it's something that I'm drawn to. Like, man,
that person right there is special to me and I
always feel like I want to use my talents and

(47:31):
gifts to work with them. And before you know what,
we're working and it's like, man, you know that's the
biggest one of the biggest stars in the world right now.

Speaker 15 (47:38):
So that's amazing and it's really a gift to be
able to really tell that. So excited about that. And
we know we have a great gift right here coming
up with your son. A lot of great work that
is in the works. So we know the album's coming
out for zay Ski. But a theytoven, what are you
working on? What's next? Or like I said, are we
just chilling right now?

Speaker 9 (47:56):
Well, like I say, I'm working real heavy with him,
and believe it or not working with him, it's making
me go back twenty years because now I probably got
to travel more. I gotta do. You know, It's just
a lot of things, but I'm excited to do it.
So you know, that's one that's a project that I'm
really really not even just a project, just a career

(48:18):
like you know that I can attach myself to, you know,
from here on out. Other things I'm working on. I'm
doing a lot of projects. I got a gospel a
gospel rep I mean a trap gospel choir. We're doing
auditions thursday, Okay, so I just started. You know, I've

(48:40):
been in church playing music all my life. I remember
going to playing for youth conventions and different choirs and everything.
So I've been working with my buddy one K Few
he's a gospel hip hop artist, and they're like, bro,
we should do the choir. And I'm like, man, you
took the words out of my mouth, you know. So
I think that's something very specially unique that I'm excited about.

(49:04):
And I have an orchestra symphony show that I'm working
on right now, so you know, and I think that's
gonna be something great to bring him out, but you know,
just legacy purposes, just like I've been doing this for
this loan, but now my son is coming in. Yeah,
and you know, he's taking the torch. So those are

(49:24):
the things I'm really excited about.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Thanks Alexandria, Zatoven and Zayski. Doug Davis is back with
a black political strategist and polster who shares important insights
regarding the black vote in twenty twenty four and where
we are headed.

Speaker 9 (49:37):
Doug.

Speaker 10 (49:37):
Thanks Mike.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
This is Doug Davis, and we are continuing our conversation
with Terrence with Berry, top political strategists and CEO of
Hit Strategies, regarding details from his Black Ops twenty twenty
five report highlighting black voter behavior and engagement. Brother Terrence,
thank you again for returning back to the BIM to
share this important information about your report concerning the twenty
twenty four presidential election and how we voted. Left off

(50:00):
with you saying that the reason why we saw a
lot of erosion in the black vote, particularly for black men,
is because of consumer sentiment, basically in that it was
less expensive to live under President Trump's first running office. Personally,
I believe life was better economically for the Black community
due to the work of President Barack Obama. But let's
move forward and talk about black women. Historically a critical

(50:20):
voting black for the Democratic Party. In the twenty twenty
four election, how effective did the Democratic Party's message resonate
with them?

Speaker 16 (50:28):
Thank you so much for having me, darn glad to
be here. Yeah, well, you know, black women continue to
do what black women always do. They showed up. They
showed out. Ninety three percent voted for Kamala Harris. That
was pretty consistent to how many voted for Joe Biden
the previous election, and they've been holding that line for.

Speaker 9 (50:41):
Quite a while now.

Speaker 16 (50:42):
The reason we talk about the gender and the generation
gap in the Black community is because the generation gap
amongst young black voters is not unique to young black men, right.
It is young black voters that are expressing an overwhelming
amount of frustration and cynicism.

Speaker 9 (50:58):
That obviously includes you on black women.

Speaker 16 (51:01):
But when you know, one thing that I advised and
warned the Democratic Party about going into the twenty twenty
four election was that we are asking voters who have
had mixed results with democracy, who've gotten mixed outcomes from democracy,
to defend the thing that hasn't always worked for them.
And so one thing we know we have encourage is
that before we offer policies or plans, we have to

(51:23):
acknowledge the pain. Right And you know, I went to
Moreholes College, and the example I often give of how Democrats,
even white Democrats, can talk to Black voters about their
pain for something that Joe Biden said at the twenty
twenty one commencement speech when he was talking to eight
hundred black men graduating from Moreholes College. He said, I
understand that it's hard to love a country that doesn't

(51:45):
always love you back. I understand it's hard to work
twice as hard and get half as far. And that
is an acknowledgment of the of the overwhelming sacrifice and
contributions that black folks are making and still not always
getting their fair piece.

Speaker 9 (51:58):
Of the pie.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
The report identify any key economic policy positions that you
know resonated strongly with black voters, and how did these
preferences differ across the various segments of our community.

Speaker 16 (52:09):
Yeah, overwhelmingly.

Speaker 9 (52:10):
You know this.

Speaker 16 (52:11):
Look, every election is about the economy. The number one
issue of every election is economy. The difference is that
economy means something different in each election. Right in two
thousand and eight, when we were coming out of the recession,
Barack Obon was running, economy meant foreclosures and jobs. Right
in twenty twenty when Joe Biden was running, economy meant
opening back up from the pandemic. Well, in this election,

(52:33):
economy meant cost, and Black voters are overwhelmingly prioritizing the
cost of housing, the cost of groceries, and the cost
of gas and energy, and so that any Democratic policies.
In fact, you know, I've often argued that our politics
are post policy. We are beyond policy, that even voters
that agree with us own policy aren't always voting for us.

(52:56):
And so along with the policy, we got to define
the problem. And that is one thing that Donald Trump
has spent a lot of time doing. Is you know,
when folks are telling us that their lives are not
what they expected them to be, when they're telling us
that they feel like their lives suck no matter how
hard they work. If we cannot name the problem, if
we can't tell them why their life sucks, then why
would they trust us to unseck their lives?

Speaker 6 (53:19):
Right?

Speaker 16 (53:19):
And so we've seen Donald Trump putting a lot of
his messaging is around the grievance and the retribution and
the pain that people are feeling. And the reason that
he's giving America for why they feel this pain is
because of DEI and black people and trans people and immigrants. Well,
the problem, Doug, is that zero some politics has seeped

(53:40):
into our voters. And I want to give you two examples.
Fifty nine percent of black voters believe that the gains
of the LGBTQ community have come at the expense of
the black community. That's where the TRANSAD comes from. That
trans AD wasn't wasn't to promote an anti LGBTQ sentiment.
The TRANSAD said, they're taking your tax dollars and paying

(54:02):
for trans surgeries, you have less because they're given those
people more. And in fact, sixty four percent of black
voters also believe that the gains of the Latino community
sometimes come at the expense of the black community. That's
where black jobs came from. Right, they're taking your black jobs.
He was speaking to this sentiment, not an anti immigrant sentiment,

(54:23):
not an anti LGBTQ sentiment, but a pro black sentiment
that has Black people looking around their communities saying, we
don't have what we need, and he's offering them a reason,
and we have to offer an alternative reason.

Speaker 9 (54:35):
That's right.

Speaker 10 (54:36):
Does your report lend what that might be?

Speaker 16 (54:39):
Absolutely? I think, you know, I think his strategies has
an answer. If he's telling America that all of our
problems is because of black people and DEI and trans
people and immigrants, what is the alternative that we're going
to offer. Well, another poll that was conducted last year
in August of twenty twenty four show the seventy three
percent of Americans believe greedy corporations in billionaires have rigged

(55:02):
the system to keep themselves rich Americans, not just black people, right,
And that was in August of last year, before Donald
Trump gave the keys of the kingdom to the richest
man in the world, right, And so I saw this
quote that said, you know, the problem with American politics
is that the man that makes one thousand dollars an
hour has convinced the man that makes one hundred dollars

(55:23):
an hour that his problem is coming from the people
that make one dollar a now, right, and so they,
the rich, have convinced us that all of our problems
are because of people that have less than us. Immigrants
and transry, those closest to the pain are not causing
our pain. It is greedy corporations and greedy billionaires that
are in fact pillaging the White House as we speak.

Speaker 10 (55:46):
So, but again, what's the solution? I mean, what's what?

Speaker 2 (55:50):
What what can Democrats do from a strategic standpoint right
now to turn the tides, per say, when it comes
to messaging.

Speaker 16 (55:58):
Yeah, look, we have been argin the Democratic leadership that
I that his strategies consults to stop acting like the
minority party and start acting like the opposition party. Right,
minority party has one job to wait until you win
the majority. Opposition is action and it is constant action.
Seventy eight percent of black voters want to see Democrats

(56:22):
fight at every chance they get. In fact, the exact
question was twenty two percent of Democrats, which of these
do you agree with?

Speaker 8 (56:28):
More?

Speaker 16 (56:28):
Twenty two percent of black voters say that Democrats should
allow Republicans to fail and demonstrate that they are incapable
of governing. Seventy eight percent of black folks believe the
Democrats should fight as often as visibly as possible.

Speaker 9 (56:40):
The visibly part is important.

Speaker 10 (56:42):
Let's go back to black women real quick.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
You know, there was always a narrative that black women
were somewhat to blame for Trump's victory. How does your
report directly respond to that claim. What kind of specific
data points from the report challenges the narrative, and what
does you know the deep.

Speaker 10 (56:57):
Data reveal about the actual voting patterns.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
I know we touched on this earlier, but I wondered
if you could expound a bit more on that and
then kind of a two part question per se, what
are some strategies to engage black women voters in the future.

Speaker 16 (57:12):
Yeah, I mean, look, ninety percent of black women have
supported the Democratic candidate since Bill Clinton. You know, this
is the most reliable voter in the Democratic coalition. The
most likely voter in America is a black woman over
the age of fifty, not the most likely black voter,
the most likely voter in America. They gon't vote, and
they're going to vote for a Democrat every time. But
there is an opportunity now to mobilize, right, because black

(57:35):
women are also the army that we need to mobilize
our community, and I do think that there is. They're
also the education some of you know, and often cases,
they are the educators that we need to inform our community.
They're the most trusted messengers oftentimes in our community, and
so we have to arm them with the information that
they need. Look, I was just telling one of my

(57:55):
colleagues who used to work on the Health and Education
Committee and send it. I was like, brother, but I
could not tell you how this mentioning the Department of
Education hurts my little cousin in Charlotte, North Carolina. And
I work in government, I work in politics, right, and
so we have to arm people with information. Just get
it out here. Because black women know whether they understand
the assignment, and once they have the information, they know

(58:17):
what to do with it. And so that's what we're doing.
It We got to recruit our folks to fight back.
I'm not talking about keeping the democracy, I'm talking about
taking it back.

Speaker 9 (58:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
What key recommendations does the Black Ops twenty twenty five report,
you know, offer to ensure Black voters feel genuinely represented
and empowered in the political process moving forward.

Speaker 6 (58:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (58:34):
Number one, we need to organize the resistance, you know,
the Black Ops as an attempt to organize all of
the black advocacy organizations Color Change, INAACP, National Action Network, Urbanly.
We have an infrastructure of organizations that have existed in
our communities for generations, that are that are resourced under
resource but they're resourced and they are deployed. But we

(58:57):
need to organize them into a coalition so that we
can together.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Terrence Woodbury, leading political strategists and CEO of HIT Strategy,
sharing that data and perspectives found in his Black Ops
twenty twenty five report.

Speaker 10 (59:09):
Thank you for your time, sir.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
This is Doug Davis for listening to the Black Perspective
on the Black Information Network.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Thanks Doug, great stuff. As always, that's our program for
this week. For more on these stories, listen to the
Black Information Network on the Free iHeartRadio app or log
onto binnews dot com for all of the latest news
impacting the black community. Also be sure to follow us
on social media at Black Information Network and on X
and Blue Sky at black Info Net. I'm Mike Island,

(59:35):
wishing everyone a great Sunday, and be sure to tune
in next week at this time for another edition of
the Black Perspective right here on the Black Information Network.