April 23, 2025 • 58 mins
In this one-hour BIN special, Andrea Coleman shines a light on the Black maternal health crisis — a growing emergency that’s costing Black women their lives at a rate three times higher than White women. Through in-depth reporting and powerful storytelling, this episode explores the systemic failures, personal stories, and urgent calls to action shaping the fight to protect Black mothers in America.
Listen now!
Listen now!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Coming up next on The Black Information Network, a special
edition of The Black Perspective in honor a Black Maternal
Health Month.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Tierra is big in for medicine at this point. The
nurse injected her through the ivy with morphine and Tierra
instantly was like, it's hot, it's hot, Mama, I can't breathe.
Help me, Mama, please help me. And I'm like, what
am I supposed to do?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Take a look at the heartbreaking reality hundreds of families
into her each year, mother's dying while pregnant, are after
giving birth.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
And I was freaking out.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I was trying to figure out, what is it We're
gonna do? How am I gonna make this happen? Who's
gonna wanna do with me? Like it was, it was
so much negativity surrounding me at the time that all
I could think about was negativity. And it was like
Viola's house was that instant light that hey, you don't
have to go through that. Coming here and just grab
(01:00):
my hands, follow me. We're going to do this together.
We're going to walk through this together. And that's what
I've been doing.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, shine a light on a program that's transforming the
lives of some young mothers to be.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Now.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
As part of the Black Information Networks commitment to improving
the lives of our community through knowledge, we begin the
summer long campaign Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis
with an hour long special assessing the crisis. Here's your host,
Andrea Coleman.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Thank you for joining us for this look at black
maternal health, which some healthcare professionals and advocates say has
reached a crisis level in the US. Every year, hundreds
of Black women die during pregnancy while giving birth are
shortly afterwards. In many instances, surviving family members and maternal
health advocates say the debts could have been prevented. So
(01:52):
what's happening, Why are we losing our mothers during one
of the most sacred and routine rituals in life, and
what's being done to slow and change the trend? Today
will provide an overview of the issue, and then the
summer will break it down even more and a special
public awareness campaign called Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis.
(02:17):
Statistics show and estimated one point seven million babies were
born to white women in twenty twenty four, while more
than four hundred and seventy four thousand babies were born
to black women. That's less than half the number of
white babies born that year. Yet black perinatal women are
dying at three times the rate of white women. In
some instances, these moms experienced symptoms of a health condition
(02:41):
that go undiagnosed and untreated by doctors, leading to further
complications and sometimes even death. Such was the case with
Nicole Berryman's daughter Tierra.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
The nurse told her if she left the hospital it
was gonna only delay the care, so they were going
to have to start all over.
Speaker 6 (02:59):
So she said, I just want to go home my kids.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Tierra died a few months ago, days after delivering a
healthy baby boy in a Dallas, Texas hospital. I sat
down with Nicole recently and listened as she shared details
of her daughter's failed attempt to get help during a
painful post delivery situation. Please note details of the incident
may be disturbing to hear.
Speaker 7 (03:25):
My daughter.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
She had a baby November eighteen. She stated to her
nurse that she was having chest pains on November nineteenth.
The nurse told her that that was normal after having
a baby.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
But Tierra's chest pains persistent, and three days later, on
November twentieth, she returned to the hospital, where she ended
up in intensive care. Their doctors struggled to find the
cause of her chest pains.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
They told me pneumonia, they told me stress, they told
me maybe spasmed. There was never a diagnosis. It was
amazing and we communicated and nothing happened. They took her,
they did the test for her heart. They came back
and told me that it was stressed. So I'm like,
(04:11):
you're not gonna do an echo creogram or chest X
ray to find out if that's what it is. And
why would you just say it's stress.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Why wouldn't you rule out with the worst it.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Could be and then come back and say later that
it was stressed because stratages wasn't sitting well with me.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Nicole's instincts proved to be accurate. Asked here, a situation
peaked the next morning after she received a dose of
morphine to ease the pain.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
The nurse injected her through the ivy morphine and Tierr
instantly was like, it's hot. It's hot, Mama, I can't breathe.
Help me, Mama, please help me. And I'm like, what
am I supposed to do. The nurse went out the
room and said, well, I have taling all three. If
(04:59):
this is not work, I said, you're gonna go get
some more medicine. So the charge nurse have walked out
to go and contact the doctors. The nurse went out
to get taller and all three. Tierra I was clean
off her table because it was just wet with water.
So I was cut off her table for breakfast. And
(05:22):
I had just hung up with a cafeteria and put
in her order and no. Soon as I hung up
the phone, she started yagging and I said, what you
gotta throw up?
Speaker 6 (05:35):
She had her eyes rolled to the back of her head.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Tierra was twenty six years old. Nicole is now raising
her three children, ages seven, three, and four months.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
I'm doing what the best I can. I know she's
with us.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I really haven't had time to break down or grit
because I have to stage stroke for the kids, for
her siblings who tried to commit suicide the day after.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It's a scenario that statistics indicate it is playing out
in black households across the country, and won medical professionals
like doctor Taba Eribo want to change.
Speaker 8 (06:20):
I have been an obi Jin since twenty nineteen, and
then I've been an HHM since twenty twenty three.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Right, and what is an HHM.
Speaker 8 (06:32):
HHM is Healing Hands Ministry. It is a federally qualified
health center right here in Dallas that takes care of
We have in addition to women's health, we have pediatrics
and family medicine, but specifically within the women's health, we
take care of everyone with insurance, without insurance, under insured,
(06:53):
refugee population.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
We take care of everyone.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I spoke with doctor Rebo via zoom through the recommendation
of Mana, a maternal health advocate and member of the
Black Information Networks Local Roundtable, who we will hear from
later in the program. Bonna encouraged us to speak with
doctor Ribo because of her passion for the issue, this
crisis that we're seeing where black women are dying at
three times the right of white women.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
What's happening there?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Why are we seeing such a disparity.
Speaker 8 (07:21):
There's not a singular thing or a singular clause that
we can point to and see the reason is this, right?
The reason is disparity like deep rooted, like racial disparities
against African Americans in general. The reason is the social
determinants of health, transportation, in security, food, insecurity, how the insecurity,
(07:44):
It is the unconscious biases that providers bring to the
care of these women. It is access to care. And
so when you start to think about what is the
cause of this disparity that we're seeing in these numbers,
it is what i'veorial. And so when a woman comes
to care for her pregnancy and you fail to neglect
(08:08):
all the things that affects their care and you just
only focused in the clinical you missed the whole picture.
She's having to ride the bus to clinic and she
misses her bus, or she doesn't know where her next
meal is coming from, or our house's in jerkidy, then
you can't properly care for her onto your dress, all
those extanuous circumstances surrounds her.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Who owns that? Where does responsibility lie for changing these
social determinants and helping that woman get into a state
of stability and health.
Speaker 8 (08:36):
I think it is all of us. I think the
policies right, like what is the legislature doing, Like what
kind of medical infrastructure do we have in the United States?
Does he account for those things?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Right?
Speaker 8 (08:48):
So, like policies and then clinics as well. Right, Clinics
also a role to play in this, and that you
can connect and partner with organizations that have those resources,
like make sure that you're not just an isolated clinic
that only focuses on just the clinical You have to
partner an organizations. So if you were in a space
(09:10):
like I am in a community health center where you
understand that you're funding is kind of limited and you
know that you can't address all these issues, the best
thing you can do for your patients is find partners
who will help you address the other non clinical aspects
that contribute to the statistics that we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So that's pre delivery.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
Take us to post delivery.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Where these women are in the hospital receiving medical care,
sometimes complaining of complications, as we heard through the story
of Nicole Berryman's daughter Tierra being dismissed and discharged, only
to come back days later and in her case, actually
dying once she arrived there. Take into intensive care. What's
going on that this is happening under the watch of
(09:57):
medical professionals.
Speaker 8 (09:58):
There is absolutely no excuse use for that. When a
patient is under your care, you must see you have
a responsibility to take every single complaint seriously and oftentime, Like,
the scenario you just described is not an isolated event.
It's not an isolated incident. This is like a repentitis
pattern that usually happens among the African Americans. It's like
(10:20):
when you have a complaint, it's like, well, maybe it's
just gas, maybe it's just sleep deprivation, maybe it's just this. Well,
we need to start changing the rhetoric here. We need
to start changing our mindset and our approach to care
that common illnesses do not present the same way across
ethnic backgrounds. Right, And when we go to medical school,
(10:42):
the things we're taught is in a context of not
an African American. It's in a context of like a
white person. And so when you then start treating a
black person, do you have the.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
Frame of reference?
Speaker 8 (10:55):
Do you know how it presents in this population?
Speaker 9 (10:58):
Right?
Speaker 8 (10:59):
Like, it's not a common for you to open a
textbook and you're shown your rash. Well, the rash is
on a white skin, but then when it's on my skin,
what does it look like? So when you see the
same rash and someone that looks like me, can you
identify it? So again, It's not just about the care
that is happening at that moment in the hospital. We
(11:20):
need to take it back to policies and how we're teaching,
and how we're training, and how we're kind of like
addressing those unconscious biases that we don't even.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Know we bring to care.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You know, you say that, I'm reminded of the era
in which we are in socially, where we are now
seeing this pushback against any kind of education that distinguishes
any kind of racial difference and so forth. Considering this
current political and social climate, how likely are these changes
to take place?
Speaker 8 (11:49):
I want to be optimistic to say that the disparity
that we see in the African American or the Black
maternal mortality rate, it's not coincidence. It's not a reflection
of politics. This is real life. These are real people,
(12:10):
and we know the black woman is an anchor. She
is more than just a woman in her society. She
is the mahra in chief of her community. And so
a decision to become pregnant should not be marred with
the possibility of mourning. This is real life, and a
black woman is missing from her household, you change the
(12:31):
entire trajectory of her family or her community. The fabric
is not the same. And so when you pull off
the statistics and you know that the average maternal mortality
rate in America is eighteen per one hundred thousand, but
the black woman is fifty per one hundred thousand, you
cannot argue with that. This is not talking about diversity,
(12:53):
equiting inclusion.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
This is real life.
Speaker 8 (12:55):
This is not trying to pick out race. This is
real life. And so I would hope that you know
in our current political climate that everyone's invested in reducing
the maternal mortality rate. And you cannot reduce the maternal
mortality it is not reducing the black maternal mortality rate,
(13:15):
because that is the huge piece that is skewing it
to be in a high number. I mean, when you
think about the amount of money that we as a
country spending healthcare and then you think about our outcomes,
I mean, everyone should be invested in that because the
amount of money doesn't equate the result we're getting. Among
(13:38):
industrialized countries and high income countries, the United States is
at the bottom and yet to spend most. So if
we're if we're in an error where we're talking about
efficiency and reducing you know, waste and abuse and trying
to be more efficient. What is a more efficient way
targeting the high priority areas.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
If you could talk to anyone and the network involved
with Black maternal health, who would you speak to most
and what message would you give to them?
Speaker 8 (14:06):
I would speak to the physicians more, the providers more,
because I think that often at times, and it's not
our fault. It's the way we're trained in school. You're
trained to be so clinically based and clinically focused that
we don't spend enough time talking about the person as
the HEP. It's like, Okay, you have hypertension and this
(14:29):
is the medicine done right. There's no room for like
understanding the circumstance around that. And often times that's what
pushes patients away, is that it come to you and
like sometimes you're never been looking at the patient. You
look at their vitals, You're like, your block PAS is
really high today, you need to go to the hospital.
This is the medicine and done. But you didn't start
to think about that.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
They have all the kids.
Speaker 8 (14:50):
You didn't start to think about what's going to happen
when they're in the hospital for two days. And when
the woman says, I can't go to the hospital because
of my other kids, what are you documents? Your chart?
Are you putting the world non compliant? If I wanted
to see somebody? And then he said, I need you
to give more grace. There needs to be ruled for
life in the middle of your care. How you document
(15:13):
matters because the next doctor who reads that note is
going to then forge that opinion about that patient before
they ever read that. And so when they call in
the room, they're like the full the patient's like, well,
I'm sorry, I kind of like okay, now where sign
out against medical advice? Right? And so then that just
gets perpetrated over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
If such a cycle was to play out in hospitals
and medical facilities across the country, many people, including pregnant
and postpartum moms, could suffer. Coming up, will take a
look at two organizations that are working to prevent that
from happening. But first, this message from Tony Cole's president
of the Black Information Network.
Speaker 10 (15:53):
Hi, I'm Tony Cole's president of the Black Information Network.
Every year, thousands of black women die during pregnancy or
or shortly after having a baby. The reasons surrounding the
issue vary from a lack of access to healthcare to
poor medical care. As a committed member of the Black community,
the Black Information Network wants to raise awareness about the
issues and challenges expectant and postpartum black mom's face and
(16:16):
talk about ways each of us can help them have
a healthy and successful maternal health journey. Join us for
Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis, a BION special
public awareness campaign. You'll hear from medical professionals, community leaders,
maternal health advocates, and surviving moms and fathers on how
we can help turn around this heartbreaking trend. Look for
(16:38):
updates and campaign messages on our social media platforms, and
share your maternal health journey with us using the talkback
live feature on the free iHeartRadio app. We welcome your
input and support as we look to shine a light
on this important issue in the hope of saving lives
of more Black moms.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
You're listening to a BION special to kick off the
summer long campaign Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis.
This is assessing the crisis with your host, Black Information
Network anchor Andrea Coleman.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
According to the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
More black women started using the services of midwives and
doulas in the nineteen seventies, Concerns of over medication by
medical professionals and a desire for greater emotional support led
them back to the tradition that was once the only
birthing option for black women in the US. Today, dulas
(17:32):
are still very much on the scene and are viewed
in some communities as part of the solution to concerns
regarding maternal health.
Speaker 11 (17:40):
So Delighted to do what stands in the gap. We
sit in the gap actually from delivery from the hospital
to home in the first six weeks, So we're the
organization that sits right there for that six week period.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Meet Princeilla Moore through her nonprofit Delighted to Doula. Princilla
and her team advocate and care for mothers after they
deliver their children. She's part of a small but powerful
network of nonprofits in south of Dallas working to safeguard
the maternal health the Black moms.
Speaker 11 (18:14):
When mothers get out of the hospital, they're usually not
saying for six weeks, so who's.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
Checking on that.
Speaker 11 (18:20):
Our organization exists to do that we are in their
homes immediately after birth. We're speaking to them about symptoms
that could be associated with a morbidity or mortality, and
like I said, headaches, hemorrhaging. We're talking to them about
their bleeding, asking them questions, finding out if they have
a headache, any of those things, their urination, have you
(18:43):
went to the bathroom, because that's the problem also mental health,
so we're looking at that as well. Right around the
fourth week, we send out a survey just it's called
a GAD seven or Edinburgh Postpartum Depression Scale and the
and then on those results that helps us determine if
we need to take extra steps to get them support.
(19:07):
Suicide is one of the leading causes of maternal deaths,
and so we're really paying attention to what's happening immediately
after birth because.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
No one needs. When you start talking about the postpartum
symptoms like hemorrhaging, headaches, and so forth, what conditions might
that be signaling with hemorrhaging.
Speaker 11 (19:27):
There could be parts of the body of the baby
from the placenta, things could be left you could you
know from just like let's say the necessarian section, right
anything from there could have been left in the body
that wasn't taken out, and they could be hemorrhaging, wasn't
sowed up properly at the hospital. Headaches could mean a
number of things. There could be a blood clot somewhere
(19:50):
and that has happened. You've been able to spot those
because swelling will happen as well. And so it's like, well,
are why they're swelling? You know, why are they not
going down? And we advocate for them, help them get
back to the ear and they have a blood clot
and so little things. It could be a number Really,
it's all about really just getting them to advocate, go
(20:11):
back to the hospital, get checked, because we just don't
know what that individual symptom is or what it could
actually mean in that person.
Speaker 7 (20:23):
Now you're talking or just mentioned going back to the hospital,
And we spoke earlier today to a mom whose daughter
did exactly that was having symptoms, went back and she
died several days later. What's happening in those hospitals that
the level of care these moms need to receive is missing.
Speaker 11 (20:42):
They're not listening, The doctors are not listening. They are
telling them their story that they're saying, this is what's
wrong with me, But they're not listening to the words
that are coming.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Out of her mouth.
Speaker 11 (20:53):
I had a really good friend of mine she passed
three days after birth, and so she did the exact
same thing. She called at the hospital every single day.
She had a very she had a headache. She kept
telling them that she had this horrible headache. Part of
the placenta was left in her body, which was causing
this headache. And so by the time her husband just
(21:16):
said forget it, I'm about to take you back in,
she died on the table. It was they just didn't
want to hear what she was saying. They dismiss our pain,
dismissed the words that we're actually saying that we are hurting,
we're suffering, we need support, we need help.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
This is a problem, this is an.
Speaker 11 (21:33):
Issue, and they are just throwing a pill at it.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
Or you know, it's normal, it's birth.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
You'll be good now. You said the word we Are
you using that specifically for a certain group or population?
And why black women? Because black women are three to
four times likely to die in childbirth. Here in the
state of Texas, the death rate is seventeen pointtion.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
I believe, yes, our deaths are one hundred thousand deaths.
Speaker 11 (22:06):
That's just in Texas, but the national rate is sixty
nine zero point nine. This is just Black women that
are dying at this rate three to four times higher
than that of white women. And so but then if
you look at just a morbidity, like something that just
could go wrong and they don't die or morbidity is
(22:28):
just as bad because maybe they're black. Pressure is high,
right and they're not checking it, and so that is
being dismissed or they almost died. That is what a
morbidity is. They almost die, right, And so that percentage
is one hundred and thirty nine percent of Black women
that almost die in childbirth. But the sad part about
(22:52):
that is that's a long lasting effect. So whatever happened
to them in childbirth, that is going to come up
years later. So they're going to have diabetes, or they're
going to have what pressure issues, or they're going to
have heart issues. That is going to come up later.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
On in life.
Speaker 11 (23:09):
And this is what's happening to our black women. You know,
in the community, we're not we're be ignored, We're not
going to listen to and our symptoms, you.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Know, they they they are being dismissed.
Speaker 7 (23:24):
Where does a duel come in, What role do you
play and what change do you hope to make.
Speaker 11 (23:28):
One of the biggest things we're doing is advocacy. We're
helping them avocate for themselves. We're making sure that they
get like our organization, we're making sure that these women
are getting to the hospital that the doctor is actually
listening to them, because what happens is.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
They you know, who is this, Well, this is my doula.
Speaker 11 (23:48):
Oh so this is a professional you know that I
brought along with me. So of course they're going to
be on their you know, p's and q's and try.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
To do what's bets for for that parent.
Speaker 11 (24:00):
And so we see it because that's how we were
able to catch these blood cloths, because they are going
to go and check them for real, you know, And
so that is that's one thing.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
But then we're listening.
Speaker 11 (24:14):
So when a mother tells us that she's not feeling good,
she means that we know she's not feeling well. Yes,
there are some things that's normal after birth, which is
why we talk to them and assess them and ask
all the open ended questions, you know.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
Not just so how are you okay? Yes, well that's
not enough.
Speaker 11 (24:33):
Did you take a bath to date? Yes, you know, no,
when was the last time? Tell me what that experience
was like. Like, we need to know exactly what's going
on in your household, what's going on in your life,
so that we can help assess and advocate for you
for your health.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
The goal more says, is as simple as it sounds,
to stabilize and maintain the help of the moms they serve.
Because they are part of the same community, they understand
the life challenges many of their moms.
Speaker 11 (25:00):
For the full year our organization, we check on our
mothers every single month, and then they can come into
this beautiful space and we can support them here and
we have two bedrooms. Mothers can reserve and relax and rest.
We take care of their baby while they're resting. We
feed them before they leave, and then we have a
one on one visit with them to make sure that
(25:21):
all things are okay. We do the exact same thing
inside their homes, and so when we're checking on them
five months down the line, it's because maybe they lost
their job or maybe they're now having food insecurities. Right,
so you want to continue to check and monitor your
families for that full year, because you never know if
(25:42):
you have to go back, if you have to help
them with rental assistance, if you need to refer them
to another community partner. We want to make sure that
they're not just surviving, that they're thriving.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
So for expecting moms, when should they contact a duel
if they're interested in bringing WAND on their team, and
if they select to do what does it mean that
they don't get medical care facility or can we do BOMs?
Speaker 6 (26:06):
You absolutely want to do both.
Speaker 11 (26:08):
You need to contact a doula pre pregnancy. We want
you to be educated prior to becoming pregnant. I think
that for black women we need that, we need to
be educated. My girlfriend that passed away three days after birth,
she actually did that. She educated herself prior to even
becoming pregnant. She ate all the right foods, she exercised,
(26:31):
she went to her appointments readilarly, just like she was
supposed to.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
Yet she still died. Yet she still died.
Speaker 11 (26:38):
That doesn't take away the fact that you should still
have that education. You need it. But now getting the
doula is now there to help you advocate now right,
If she would have had a doula, that dula would
have advocated for her help and got her back in there,
made that doctor and talk to her and figure out
what was going on with her. I think that's what's
(26:59):
unique about us and that's the value that we hold.
And so getting a duel right away. You want to
talk to your midwives or physicians.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
You want to plan ahead.
Speaker 11 (27:11):
If you don't do that as soon as you find
out you're pregnant, start on that team. Get that birth
team together so that they can help you throughout your
whole entire journey. And then you can advocate that you're
going to advocate for your health.
Speaker 7 (27:23):
And what goes into selecting our good and qualified doul
What are we looking for?
Speaker 11 (27:29):
Someone who's passionate, someone who hears you and listens to you,
someone that is qualified, right. You want to make sure
that person is certified or has been with families, has
a great reputation in the community, or you know, just
within the birth world itself. But you want to make
(27:51):
sure you match. That's the best thing about this work
is when you sit down with a family, you want
to make sure that you align with one another. And
if you don't know me being a trainer, a doula trainer.
I always say past the job only to someone else
I've trained. I interview with many families that I passed
on to other duelists because it just wasn't a good fit.
(28:13):
And I believe that you should in that space is
so sacred that you really want to be with a
family that you know, you want to serve.
Speaker 7 (28:21):
That family doesn't feel comfortable, they then should do the same.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
To do the same.
Speaker 11 (28:26):
Absolutely, absolutely get someone in your space that you feel
comfortable with.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Currently, there are an estimated nine thousand dulas in the US.
Ten percent of them are believed to be black. We'll
hear more from Princilla and the role of dulas are
playing and addressing the black maternal health crisis during bi
in's public health awareness campaign this summer.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Well.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Maternal health refers to the nine months of pregnancy leading
up to the birth of a child and the twelve
months after a baby is born. During those critical twenty
one months, health conditions can arise, threatening the health of
the mother. Health cancers that develop but do not lead
to death are categorized as maternal morbidity. Those that do
lead to death are known as maternal mortality. Both are
(29:09):
major concerns in the black community. In some instances, social
determinants factor into the equation, as research shows a lack
of transportation and access to healthcare, poverty, inadequate education, housing instability,
food and security, and exposure to violence and other stressors
can impact a woman's maternal health.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
So we're going around to our social service agency. We
educate over five hundred months a day to stay through
Friday through a social service agency, and the mothers take classes,
live with the teacher and they earn baby bucks to
shock and the Baby Benefit.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Ty Bona Hickman is founder and CEO of Violess House,
a multifaceted nonprofit headquartered in South Dallas that helps mothers
survive pregnancy and the vital months afterwards. The Baby Benefit
boutique she just mentioned is a retail component of that operation.
Parents earned dollars to shop at the store by taking
classes online. It's open to anyone needing help and willing
(30:12):
to take the courses.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Economic stability is one of the key factors of the
social determinants of health, because if the household is stable,
then the mother is stable enough to get to healthcare.
The mother is stable more stable with her mental health
where she's not worrying about, Okay, how am I going
to provide for this baby? How am I going to
get diapers for this baby? So the economic stability piece
(30:37):
is really really important through our social service agency because
it directly impacts the social determinants of health.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Housing insecurity was a first social determin at that Thauna
address when she found it Violess House over ten years ago.
She first provided shelter to homeless pregnant teens and a
two bedroom apartment. That shelter now takes place in a
two story home.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Tomorrow. I'm going to be three months and I'm actually excited.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Twenty one year old Stella Kirk is one of the
newer residents at Viola's house. Prior to her arrival, Stella
said she was living with her boyfriend's family in Austin,
and his mother asked her to leave when she became pregnant.
Before that, she lived with her grandmother after her father
died and her mother fell on hard times. During my
recent visit to Dallas, Stella talked about her current situation.
Speaker 7 (31:29):
So, what brought you to Violin's house?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I actually was homeless and was actually trying to find
resources knowing that I was from Dallas and it was
either coming back to my hometown or going to Chicago,
and I just felt like Chicago was too far away,
and I felt like being in Dallas I would be
(31:52):
able to get more help from more resources. My aunt
she couldn't take me in, but she did give me
the flyer too. All his house so far. I can't
speak for everyone, but I know for myself being here
has helped tremendously. I was actually being grateful that they
(32:12):
did accept me and that they did have a bed open.
They had helped fun for our groceries, even though everything
was last minute. They didn't. They were very welcoming. They
didn't make me feel like, oh, this is just another
charity case we're taking in, or oh this is just
another person, like they'll be here until they're just not
(32:34):
like they have helped and have continuously helped. My dad's
favorite thing was a closed mouth doesn't get fed as
long as you speak up or let them know, Hey,
this is what I need or this is what I'm
trying to do. They have no problem helping at all.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
Whop us understand what it's like to be pregnant and alone.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Honestly, it could be very scary to be pregnant, to
be bringing in another human, a child, a another blessing
into this world and not feeling like you have a
leg to stand on, or not feeling like you know
there's somebody in your corner. Viola's house is that person?
(33:16):
Viola's house is that that program that will put you
on your feet and allow you to know that it's okay.
And these things do happen, and it's unfortunate that it happens,
but there are ways to come around it and deal
with it.
Speaker 7 (33:30):
What was it like to be homelesss What emotions would
go through your mind? What would you think about when
you moved be on the street and you have no
place to go?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Honestly, I was scared. I was really terrified. I didn't
know what the next move was. I didn't know how
I was gonna take care of my baby, knowing that
I was its main nutrition spot or its main source
of power or help. I wasn't even able to provide
a meal for myself, so how I was gonna push
through or help then the human being growing inside of
(34:02):
me was just scary. I was upset, I was angry.
I felt like it was my fault because here I
am homeless, We're nowhere to go finding out I'm pregnant,
not knowing what to expect or what's to come next.
It was just scary.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Statistics show maternal women over the age of forty die
at nearly five times a rate of younger women. Still,
it is estimated that in twenty twenty three, forty percent
of homeless women between the ages of eighteen and twenty
four were pregnant at some point during that year. How
important are programs like Viola's House and helping young ladies
(34:37):
who find themselves in places of hopelessness.
Speaker 9 (34:41):
I can't tell you how very, very import it is
to have Viola's House. And it's very different from a shelter,
I'll say, because we have to pivot or showing love
even when the resident is not being loving, and there
(35:05):
are not many places you can go, even some homes
you can go where that happens.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Doctor Asteria Miller provides mental health services to the residents
of Viola's House. She says the outlook for any pregnant
woman without shelter is often bleak without intervention. What happens
when these residential homes like Viola's house and any others.
That's casting a net to catch our young ladies who
are in a state of distress. What happens if these homes,
(35:35):
these facilities go away? What happens to these young ladies
in particular?
Speaker 6 (35:40):
I just have to be blunt death.
Speaker 9 (35:42):
Did I believe these young women would go off somewhere
and either spiritually die or physically die mentally die?
Speaker 11 (35:57):
Did?
Speaker 9 (35:58):
Because if you are are unhealthy mentally, spiritually, physically all
three or just one of the three, there's no way
you can launch that baby to success.
Speaker 10 (36:12):
No way.
Speaker 9 (36:13):
These young women would not be able to manage life,
let alone. They're having a hard time managing their lives.
And let's just get over the fact that they're where
they are. They're there and there's a need. And until
we can do some things to help with that need
right now, we can't make any changes so that things
(36:37):
will get better for the lives in the future. When
we are looking and did for all of these young women.
I don't care what color they are, I don't care
what socioeconomic status they are. I don't care where they
come from. Did we're looking.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
At dead presidents stay at Biola's house for several months
after their children are born. While there, they take online parenting,
career and life skills development courses to prepare for their futures.
Stella is studying to become certified in the insurance industry.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
But I am a worried that people do not care
how much you know until they know that you care.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
As for Thana Hickman, safeguarding the health of black moms
is our top priority. For her. The mother of three daughters,
recently welcome to grandson into the world. You may hear
her daughter taking care of the baby Asthana and I
talked while sitting at her dining room table.
Speaker 12 (37:33):
The first thing that I say is Violus's house opens
a door and provides immediate access to housing, to food, transportation,
access to healthcare because we have a clinic right on site,
economic stability. All of these things are the social determinants
(37:55):
of health, especially for a mother during pregnancy. If a
mother doesn't have stable housing, she could care less about
getting to her maternal care appointments because she is in
survival mode for her life at the moment. She can't
even really think about the sur bible of that baby. Typically,
(38:17):
if a mother doesn't have access to housing or transportation.
We have seen where people overutilize uber eats, things like
that they're getting the wrong foods because they don't have
transportation to go to grocery stores. We have a little
mini grocery store right on site with our partner church, Cornerstone,
(38:38):
where they can get access to fresh food immediately. When
you look at the social determinants of health and all
of the things around that will, that is where Biola's
House thrives. We are one of the few organizations that
you will find that focuses on every single thing around
(39:00):
that will. We have licensed counselors there on site. We
give transportation. If you're in our maternity home, you are
not taking the bus to get to your doctor's appointments
or to get your kids to the pediatrician. We do
job training mental health. Did I say that because I
need to say that again? Right there on site. Our
(39:23):
COEO is one of the best therapists you'll ever meet.
She's been a licensed clinical social worker for over twenty years,
maybe twenty five years. So at Biola's House, while we
focus on the social determinants of health, we do it
by looking at everything that it takes to impact a
(39:43):
mother's health. In that child's health.
Speaker 6 (39:46):
That's so tremendous.
Speaker 13 (39:49):
You have a message for our listeners who all may
not be aware of how big build black material health
crisises of you, how it stan What do you most
want them to know.
Speaker 12 (40:02):
The first thing that I'm going to say to the
listeners who don't even know that there's a black maternal
health crisis is that it's real. Every single day, Black
mothers are dying from giving birth. I said to someone today,
it is to the point where black mother literally has
(40:24):
to choose do I want to live or do I
want to die based on the provider that I'm with
and the steps that I take during my maternal care process.
And that is literally how critical this issue is. I
read stories weekly of mothers that are dying in hospitals
(40:48):
right around me, and most of it is preventable having
the access to take care of yourself during your pregnancy.
It's right there, It's at the fingertips, and they don't know.
Making sure you choose the right provider, making sure you
choose the right labor and delivery unit based on the
(41:13):
hospital that you're at. I will tell people that this
is so real and it could happen in your family
at any moment. You could be celebrating at a baby
shower in one moment with the woman in your family
given birth and planning her funeral two months later. If
(41:38):
you don't educate yourself on the black maternal health crisis
that is happening right now in the US, it is real.
And the saddest part is most people don't know that
it's happening until it impacts them directly and they lose
(41:58):
a loved one, they lose a wife, they lose a child,
and then they question what is happening here? And we're
here telling you that it's happening every day and something
has got to be done about it.
Speaker 13 (42:15):
What's the answer?
Speaker 8 (42:18):
Boy?
Speaker 12 (42:20):
I wish I knew the answer for racism. I don't
have the answer to that. I know that the healthcare
training is implicitly biased. I know that the healthcare training
does not specifically meet the needs of Black women. You're
(42:41):
gonna hear time and time again as you interview Andrea
that we are not heard in the healthcare systems. You
can ask ten people that are providers in the maternal
care space why, and I think ten of us will
tell you we are not heard. And so We've got
(43:03):
to get with providers that hear us. We've got to
get with doulas and midwives that listen to us, that
understand our bodies during this process, because right now none
of us have the answer for racism, and so.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
We have to do our part.
Speaker 12 (43:23):
You can't go around racism. You can just make different
choices in your provider and who services you during your pregnancy.
We don't have the answer, Andrea, we may both leave
this earth without ever having the answer as to why
(43:45):
racism exists in the healthcare systems. It doesn't matter if
your nurse is black, it doesn't matter if your doctor
is black. And I want to make that very very clear.
It is the implicit bias healthcare training.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
That they receive.
Speaker 12 (44:05):
They don't understand that the training is underlined in racism.
And it doesn't matter that they're black. It doesn't matter
if they're brown, Chinese, that doesn't matter. It's the training.
Speaker 6 (44:18):
Explain that words. Break it down a little bit.
Speaker 12 (44:21):
Okay, I'll break it down to you. I'm not in
the medical field, but it's based on my lived experiences
from doing this work for so long. When you enter
into a healthcare system, immediately when you give your demographic.
There are immediate risks that apply to you, whether that
(44:46):
risk is real for you or not. I don't have
high blood pressure, I don't take any medications. But when
I go into a hospital and they learn my age
and my demographic, they are risks factors applied to me.
They have to treat me according to those risk factors,
(45:08):
whether they exist with me Fana as the person or not,
because it's based on their training, and sometimes that doesn't
work for all women. In twenty twenty three, we had
over sixty percent of the girls in the maternity home
come back from the hospital with a C section between
the age of eighteen to twenty one. Why because they
(45:33):
reach a certain point in their laboring and it doesn't
matter if the mother says I want to try. Their
training tells them stop trying at this point and cut
through seven layers of skin and complete one of the
most dangerous surgeries that anyone can have on their body.
(45:59):
To eighteen year old, that's what training tells them to do.
That's what training tells them to do. Best example of that,
I was seventeen years old when I gave birth and
I reached a point in labor and the doctors weren't comfortable.
My mother had given birth to seven babies, and she
(46:19):
looked at those doctors. She advocated for me. She said,
she is seventeen. You are not giving her a sea section.
She will have to have a sea section with every
other baby she has. Let her complete this labor.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
She can do it.
Speaker 12 (46:33):
And she looked at me and she said, I need
you to do it. I need you to push this
baby out. You can do it, she advocated for me.
So when you look at training and you look at
processes that are done, it's not often just based on
(46:56):
that individual person that's in front of them. It's based
on a process or procedure that they are trained to follow.
And the issue is about health care training. Yeah, and
so we're big on having people advocate in hospital rooms.
(47:18):
We have met wives that sit with our moms now
at the maternity home until one hour before it's time
for her to give birth. We look for five one
one five to one one is five minutes apart one
minute contractions for one hour, and then she goes because
then we know she's ready to give birth within about
(47:39):
forty five minutes, and we see less of a risks
of a C section happening because she's going into the
hospital ready to give birth. There's so many factors at
work here, right, But if mothers educate themselves during their pregnancy,
(48:04):
they know what tests to ask for during their pregnancy,
They know their provider. What is your provider providing to you?
What is a provider providing to you? And are they
meeting the need of everything you need so that you
(48:24):
can feel comfortable with knowing that you will labor well
and have a healthy birth.
Speaker 13 (48:32):
Your message to the young woman maybe feeling a measure
of shame, your hope for them in your message.
Speaker 6 (48:43):
To them as to why they shouldn't feel alone.
Speaker 13 (48:48):
And why they're worth real light.
Speaker 12 (48:53):
Every life matters, Every life is worth my fight because
we only get one. They don't get a redo. If
they lose their life due to given birth, they don't
get another opportunity, So we've got one chance to save them.
Every life matters. They need to find an organization like
(49:17):
Viola's House, where every life matters to us from the
wound to the tomb. We don't just care about the
baby when they are in the mother's stomach. We care
about that baby thriving. And if you don't feel like
you have that level of support in the community that
(49:38):
you're in. You need to find a community organization like
Viola's House and get to that support. Run to that support,
run to the education, run to the childbirth and classes,
get to someone that will advocate for you, get to
(50:00):
someone who will educate you. If you don't know where
that person is, call us whatever city you're in and
we will find that organization for you, because it is
just that important.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
At the time we spoke, Dona was preparing to head
to DC for Black Maternal Health Week, an important trip
for the future of her nonprofit as she recently lost
close to two million dollars in state and federal funding.
Will have an update on her situation when our public
awareness campaign, Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis kicks
off this summer. If you're just joining us, you are
(50:41):
listening to a special edition of The Black Perspective on
the Black Maternal Health Crisis. I'm Andrea Coleman. The CDC
cites the World Health Organization's definition of a maternal death
as a woman dying while pregnant or within forty two
days after delivering a baby or terminating a pregnancy. To
that definition, the CDC says there were six hundred sixty
(51:04):
nine maternal debts in twenty twenty three. That number includes
women of all races and ethnicities. The direct and indirect
economic cost of those debts are estimated to be close
to thirty two billion dollars. That includes items like loss productivity,
behavioral and development issues in surviving children, and increased demand
for social services. But by some accounts, the toll of
(51:27):
black maternal mortality is even higher. As we prepare to
wrap up our program, we turn our attention to the
impacts of maternal health on the black family and the
Black community. Casey Polite, the social worker and COO of
Biola's House hu Thana mentioned earlier, explains just how deep
those losses go.
Speaker 14 (51:46):
I think this is an important piece to consider with
black maternal health, with what happens now that this mom
is no longer there to be a mother right on
that aspect, the impact that it has on the children
and their understanding of what happened to mom and what
(52:11):
caused the death. What concerns me about that narrative is
the continued message that our black bodies don't matter, that
black life itself isn't important enough to intervene and support
and save a life. That what we're learning through Black
(52:33):
maternal health. Most of the time it's preventable. So how
that then impacts a child's understanding of their own life,
and how that then impacts their emotional well being. And
then we have to think about this child now entering
the school system, entering the workforce, right, making decisions about
(52:56):
their body. It's now all informed by the loss of
their mother in this way. So there's so many layers
to the impact. You now have grandparents other family members
that have to step in and raise children and that
(53:17):
was not part of their plan. So thinking about how
that then impacts the child raising process with someone who
never intended on raising this child or these children, I
automatically go to the emotional and the behavioral impact that
that has what's being projected onto that child. Right when
(53:41):
we think about the children that may look just like
mom that died, and the caregiver's ability to manage their
own grief and understanding of that process when they're looking
at a child that reminds them of someone that is
no longer here, right, we have to think about how
does that inform parenting? And we know that the matriarch
(54:05):
of families right historically within our culture plays a very
significant role in our communities. And the challenge too is
what happens when there isn't a father there. So if
the mom is gone and the father was absent, we
have a huge gap.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
But sometimes a father is present and takes up raising
the surviving child, our children on his own.
Speaker 6 (54:33):
The impact on.
Speaker 15 (54:35):
That father, that supporting spouse, what might that look like
for them, and what is a logical and reasonable expectation
for grieving and mourning the loss of that mom.
Speaker 4 (54:49):
Yes, so I.
Speaker 14 (54:49):
Think it's important when we talk about grief, it's recognizing
that not only is it phases that people go through,
but there is no no amount of time that someone
has officially grieved the loss of a loved one. So
it's important for family members, community members not to pressure
(55:13):
dad to kind of have his grief resolved in a
certain amount of time because it's very unfair for his
process right to go through that. And he's also now
has this added responsibility of raising a child by himself,
(55:34):
right without mom and really at a critical time as
an infant. And we know with black maternal health, we
lose moms within that first year so we have to
think about there are moms that we lose that it
wasn't during childbirth, it's six months later, right, and so
there has already been some bonding that's happened, There's already
(55:55):
been an established routine and maybe breastfeeding and things like that,
and so now we've interrupted all of that, and if
now asking dad to come in, And then if you
think about dads that might have been raised by single moms,
right or maybe just not in a two parent household,
and how their story now informs how they parent and grieve,
(56:21):
so that that village perspective is extremely important for these dads.
And again, often if they are the main provider of
the household, may still have a lot of absent time
from this child and have to rely on other caregivers
within their village to help support raising the child.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Casey says it's important to consider the mental and physical
health of the father, as he may be challenged in
those areas as well. In the case of Nicole Berryman's
daughter Tierra, what about you?
Speaker 11 (56:57):
I Alaiah?
Speaker 3 (57:01):
What a beautiful name? Old are you?
Speaker 7 (57:02):
Eliyah me?
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Nicole is now raising her children, which includes three year
old Elijah, who we just heard from while grieving the
passing of her daughter. Nicole says she and her grandchildren
embrace any signs that may signal Tierra It's still with
them in some way.
Speaker 7 (57:20):
The message to your grandchildren, what are you going to
tell me about their mother?
Speaker 11 (57:23):
She's an angel and.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
She's with the everywhere they go, everywhere they go.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
Her seven year old Saturday, send me a.
Speaker 6 (57:31):
Picture of group redbird on the roof old house and
she said, is this my mom? I said it is.
She's making sure you okay.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
That same we a bird came the day she passed
and just stared in our window for a long time.
Speaker 6 (57:47):
So it's gonna be it's gonna be a tough road.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Yeah, according to the statistics, that's a cinement many black
families are likely feeling. The Black Information Network offers our
heartfelt and sincere condolences to the Berryman family and all
families who have experienced such a loss. Our look at
black maternal health, its impacts and possible solutions will continue
this summer when bim's public awareness campaign Saving Black Moms
(58:13):
on Maternal Health Prices continues on June second, and tune
in for a special feature on Thana Hickman on leaving
while Black May fourth, at ten thirty am Eastern. We
thank you for joining us for this special edition of
The Black Perspective. I'm Andrea Coleman, and this is the
Black Information Network. We now return to regularly scheduled programming
Coming up next on The Black Information Network, a special
edition of The Black Perspective in honor a Black Maternal
Health Month.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Tierra is big in for medicine at this point. The
nurse injected her through the ivy with morphine and Tierra
instantly was like, it's hot, it's hot, Mama, I can't breathe.
Help me, Mama, please help me. And I'm like, what
am I supposed to do?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Take a look at the heartbreaking reality hundreds of families
into her each year, mother's dying while pregnant, are after
giving birth.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
And I was freaking out.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I was trying to figure out, what is it We're
gonna do? How am I gonna make this happen? Who's
gonna wanna do with me? Like it was, it was
so much negativity surrounding me at the time that all
I could think about was negativity. And it was like
Viola's house was that instant light that hey, you don't
have to go through that. Coming here and just grab
(01:00):
my hands, follow me. We're going to do this together.
We're going to walk through this together. And that's what
I've been doing.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, shine a light on a program that's transforming the
lives of some young mothers to be.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Now.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
As part of the Black Information Networks commitment to improving
the lives of our community through knowledge, we begin the
summer long campaign Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis
with an hour long special assessing the crisis. Here's your host,
Andrea Coleman.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Thank you for joining us for this look at black
maternal health, which some healthcare professionals and advocates say has
reached a crisis level in the US. Every year, hundreds
of Black women die during pregnancy while giving birth are
shortly afterwards. In many instances, surviving family members and maternal
health advocates say the debts could have been prevented. So
(01:52):
what's happening, Why are we losing our mothers during one
of the most sacred and routine rituals in life, and
what's being done to slow and change the trend? Today
will provide an overview of the issue, and then the
summer will break it down even more and a special
public awareness campaign called Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis.
(02:17):
Statistics show and estimated one point seven million babies were
born to white women in twenty twenty four, while more
than four hundred and seventy four thousand babies were born
to black women. That's less than half the number of
white babies born that year. Yet black perinatal women are
dying at three times the rate of white women. In
some instances, these moms experienced symptoms of a health condition
(02:41):
that go undiagnosed and untreated by doctors, leading to further
complications and sometimes even death. Such was the case with
Nicole Berryman's daughter Tierra.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
The nurse told her if she left the hospital it
was gonna only delay the care, so they were going
to have to start all over.
Speaker 6 (02:59):
So she said, I just want to go home my kids.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Tierra died a few months ago, days after delivering a
healthy baby boy in a Dallas, Texas hospital. I sat
down with Nicole recently and listened as she shared details
of her daughter's failed attempt to get help during a
painful post delivery situation. Please note details of the incident
may be disturbing to hear.
Speaker 7 (03:25):
My daughter.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
She had a baby November eighteen. She stated to her
nurse that she was having chest pains on November nineteenth.
The nurse told her that that was normal after having
a baby.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
But Tierra's chest pains persistent, and three days later, on
November twentieth, she returned to the hospital, where she ended
up in intensive care. Their doctors struggled to find the
cause of her chest pains.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
They told me pneumonia, they told me stress, they told
me maybe spasmed. There was never a diagnosis. It was
amazing and we communicated and nothing happened. They took her,
they did the test for her heart. They came back
and told me that it was stressed. So I'm like,
(04:11):
you're not gonna do an echo creogram or chest X
ray to find out if that's what it is. And
why would you just say it's stress.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
Why wouldn't you rule out with the worst it.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Could be and then come back and say later that
it was stressed because stratages wasn't sitting well with me.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Nicole's instincts proved to be accurate. Asked here, a situation
peaked the next morning after she received a dose of
morphine to ease the pain.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
The nurse injected her through the ivy morphine and Tierr
instantly was like, it's hot. It's hot, Mama, I can't breathe.
Help me, Mama, please help me. And I'm like, what
am I supposed to do. The nurse went out the
room and said, well, I have taling all three. If
(04:59):
this is not work, I said, you're gonna go get
some more medicine. So the charge nurse have walked out
to go and contact the doctors. The nurse went out
to get taller and all three. Tierra I was clean
off her table because it was just wet with water.
So I was cut off her table for breakfast. And
(05:22):
I had just hung up with a cafeteria and put
in her order and no. Soon as I hung up
the phone, she started yagging and I said, what you
gotta throw up?
Speaker 6 (05:35):
She had her eyes rolled to the back of her head.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Tierra was twenty six years old. Nicole is now raising
her three children, ages seven, three, and four months.
Speaker 6 (05:46):
I'm doing what the best I can. I know she's
with us.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I really haven't had time to break down or grit
because I have to stage stroke for the kids, for
her siblings who tried to commit suicide the day after.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
It's a scenario that statistics indicate it is playing out
in black households across the country, and won medical professionals
like doctor Taba Eribo want to change.
Speaker 8 (06:20):
I have been an obi Jin since twenty nineteen, and
then I've been an HHM since twenty twenty three.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Right, and what is an HHM.
Speaker 8 (06:32):
HHM is Healing Hands Ministry. It is a federally qualified
health center right here in Dallas that takes care of
We have in addition to women's health, we have pediatrics
and family medicine, but specifically within the women's health, we
take care of everyone with insurance, without insurance, under insured,
(06:53):
refugee population.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
We take care of everyone.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I spoke with doctor Rebo via zoom through the recommendation
of Mana, a maternal health advocate and member of the
Black Information Networks Local Roundtable, who we will hear from
later in the program. Bonna encouraged us to speak with
doctor Ribo because of her passion for the issue, this
crisis that we're seeing where black women are dying at
three times the right of white women.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
What's happening there?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Why are we seeing such a disparity.
Speaker 8 (07:21):
There's not a singular thing or a singular clause that
we can point to and see the reason is this, right?
The reason is disparity like deep rooted, like racial disparities
against African Americans in general. The reason is the social
determinants of health, transportation, in security, food, insecurity, how the insecurity,
(07:44):
It is the unconscious biases that providers bring to the
care of these women. It is access to care. And
so when you start to think about what is the
cause of this disparity that we're seeing in these numbers,
it is what i'veorial. And so when a woman comes
to care for her pregnancy and you fail to neglect
(08:08):
all the things that affects their care and you just
only focused in the clinical you missed the whole picture.
She's having to ride the bus to clinic and she
misses her bus, or she doesn't know where her next
meal is coming from, or our house's in jerkidy, then
you can't properly care for her onto your dress, all
those extanuous circumstances surrounds her.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Who owns that? Where does responsibility lie for changing these
social determinants and helping that woman get into a state
of stability and health.
Speaker 8 (08:36):
I think it is all of us. I think the
policies right, like what is the legislature doing, Like what
kind of medical infrastructure do we have in the United States?
Does he account for those things?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Right?
Speaker 8 (08:48):
So, like policies and then clinics as well. Right, Clinics
also a role to play in this, and that you
can connect and partner with organizations that have those resources,
like make sure that you're not just an isolated clinic
that only focuses on just the clinical You have to
partner an organizations. So if you were in a space
(09:10):
like I am in a community health center where you
understand that you're funding is kind of limited and you
know that you can't address all these issues, the best
thing you can do for your patients is find partners
who will help you address the other non clinical aspects
that contribute to the statistics that we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So that's pre delivery.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
Take us to post delivery.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Where these women are in the hospital receiving medical care,
sometimes complaining of complications, as we heard through the story
of Nicole Berryman's daughter Tierra being dismissed and discharged, only
to come back days later and in her case, actually
dying once she arrived there. Take into intensive care. What's
going on that this is happening under the watch of
(09:57):
medical professionals.
Speaker 8 (09:58):
There is absolutely no excuse use for that. When a
patient is under your care, you must see you have
a responsibility to take every single complaint seriously and oftentime, Like,
the scenario you just described is not an isolated event.
It's not an isolated incident. This is like a repentitis
pattern that usually happens among the African Americans. It's like
(10:20):
when you have a complaint, it's like, well, maybe it's
just gas, maybe it's just sleep deprivation, maybe it's just this. Well,
we need to start changing the rhetoric here. We need
to start changing our mindset and our approach to care
that common illnesses do not present the same way across
ethnic backgrounds. Right, And when we go to medical school,
(10:42):
the things we're taught is in a context of not
an African American. It's in a context of like a
white person. And so when you then start treating a
black person, do you have the.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
Frame of reference?
Speaker 8 (10:55):
Do you know how it presents in this population?
Speaker 9 (10:58):
Right?
Speaker 8 (10:59):
Like, it's not a common for you to open a
textbook and you're shown your rash. Well, the rash is
on a white skin, but then when it's on my skin,
what does it look like? So when you see the
same rash and someone that looks like me, can you
identify it? So again, It's not just about the care
that is happening at that moment in the hospital. We
(11:20):
need to take it back to policies and how we're teaching,
and how we're training, and how we're kind of like
addressing those unconscious biases that we don't even.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Know we bring to care.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
You know, you say that, I'm reminded of the era
in which we are in socially, where we are now
seeing this pushback against any kind of education that distinguishes
any kind of racial difference and so forth. Considering this
current political and social climate, how likely are these changes
to take place?
Speaker 8 (11:49):
I want to be optimistic to say that the disparity
that we see in the African American or the Black
maternal mortality rate, it's not coincidence. It's not a reflection
of politics. This is real life. These are real people,
(12:10):
and we know the black woman is an anchor. She
is more than just a woman in her society. She
is the mahra in chief of her community. And so
a decision to become pregnant should not be marred with
the possibility of mourning. This is real life, and a
black woman is missing from her household, you change the
(12:31):
entire trajectory of her family or her community. The fabric
is not the same. And so when you pull off
the statistics and you know that the average maternal mortality
rate in America is eighteen per one hundred thousand, but
the black woman is fifty per one hundred thousand, you
cannot argue with that. This is not talking about diversity,
(12:53):
equiting inclusion.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
This is real life.
Speaker 8 (12:55):
This is not trying to pick out race. This is
real life. And so I would hope that you know
in our current political climate that everyone's invested in reducing
the maternal mortality rate. And you cannot reduce the maternal
mortality it is not reducing the black maternal mortality rate,
(13:15):
because that is the huge piece that is skewing it
to be in a high number. I mean, when you
think about the amount of money that we as a
country spending healthcare and then you think about our outcomes,
I mean, everyone should be invested in that because the
amount of money doesn't equate the result we're getting. Among
(13:38):
industrialized countries and high income countries, the United States is
at the bottom and yet to spend most. So if
we're if we're in an error where we're talking about
efficiency and reducing you know, waste and abuse and trying
to be more efficient. What is a more efficient way
targeting the high priority areas.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
If you could talk to anyone and the network involved
with Black maternal health, who would you speak to most
and what message would you give to them?
Speaker 8 (14:06):
I would speak to the physicians more, the providers more,
because I think that often at times, and it's not
our fault. It's the way we're trained in school. You're
trained to be so clinically based and clinically focused that
we don't spend enough time talking about the person as
the HEP. It's like, Okay, you have hypertension and this
(14:29):
is the medicine done right. There's no room for like
understanding the circumstance around that. And often times that's what
pushes patients away, is that it come to you and
like sometimes you're never been looking at the patient. You
look at their vitals, You're like, your block PAS is
really high today, you need to go to the hospital.
This is the medicine and done. But you didn't start
to think about that.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
They have all the kids.
Speaker 8 (14:50):
You didn't start to think about what's going to happen
when they're in the hospital for two days. And when
the woman says, I can't go to the hospital because
of my other kids, what are you documents? Your chart?
Are you putting the world non compliant? If I wanted
to see somebody? And then he said, I need you
to give more grace. There needs to be ruled for
life in the middle of your care. How you document
(15:13):
matters because the next doctor who reads that note is
going to then forge that opinion about that patient before
they ever read that. And so when they call in
the room, they're like the full the patient's like, well,
I'm sorry, I kind of like okay, now where sign
out against medical advice? Right? And so then that just
gets perpetrated over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
If such a cycle was to play out in hospitals
and medical facilities across the country, many people, including pregnant
and postpartum moms, could suffer. Coming up, will take a
look at two organizations that are working to prevent that
from happening. But first, this message from Tony Cole's president
of the Black Information Network.
Speaker 10 (15:53):
Hi, I'm Tony Cole's president of the Black Information Network.
Every year, thousands of black women die during pregnancy or
or shortly after having a baby. The reasons surrounding the
issue vary from a lack of access to healthcare to
poor medical care. As a committed member of the Black community,
the Black Information Network wants to raise awareness about the
issues and challenges expectant and postpartum black mom's face and
(16:16):
talk about ways each of us can help them have
a healthy and successful maternal health journey. Join us for
Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis, a BION special
public awareness campaign. You'll hear from medical professionals, community leaders,
maternal health advocates, and surviving moms and fathers on how
we can help turn around this heartbreaking trend. Look for
(16:38):
updates and campaign messages on our social media platforms, and
share your maternal health journey with us using the talkback
live feature on the free iHeartRadio app. We welcome your
input and support as we look to shine a light
on this important issue in the hope of saving lives
of more Black moms.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
You're listening to a BION special to kick off the
summer long campaign Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis.
This is assessing the crisis with your host, Black Information
Network anchor Andrea Coleman.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
According to the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
More black women started using the services of midwives and
doulas in the nineteen seventies, Concerns of over medication by
medical professionals and a desire for greater emotional support led
them back to the tradition that was once the only
birthing option for black women in the US. Today, dulas
(17:32):
are still very much on the scene and are viewed
in some communities as part of the solution to concerns
regarding maternal health.
Speaker 11 (17:40):
So Delighted to do what stands in the gap. We
sit in the gap actually from delivery from the hospital
to home in the first six weeks, So we're the
organization that sits right there for that six week period.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Meet Princeilla Moore through her nonprofit Delighted to Doula. Princilla
and her team advocate and care for mothers after they
deliver their children. She's part of a small but powerful
network of nonprofits in south of Dallas working to safeguard
the maternal health the Black moms.
Speaker 11 (18:14):
When mothers get out of the hospital, they're usually not
saying for six weeks, so who's.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
Checking on that.
Speaker 11 (18:20):
Our organization exists to do that we are in their
homes immediately after birth. We're speaking to them about symptoms
that could be associated with a morbidity or mortality, and
like I said, headaches, hemorrhaging. We're talking to them about
their bleeding, asking them questions, finding out if they have
a headache, any of those things, their urination, have you
(18:43):
went to the bathroom, because that's the problem also mental health,
so we're looking at that as well. Right around the
fourth week, we send out a survey just it's called
a GAD seven or Edinburgh Postpartum Depression Scale and the
and then on those results that helps us determine if
we need to take extra steps to get them support.
(19:07):
Suicide is one of the leading causes of maternal deaths,
and so we're really paying attention to what's happening immediately
after birth because.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
No one needs. When you start talking about the postpartum
symptoms like hemorrhaging, headaches, and so forth, what conditions might
that be signaling with hemorrhaging.
Speaker 11 (19:27):
There could be parts of the body of the baby
from the placenta, things could be left you could you
know from just like let's say the necessarian section, right
anything from there could have been left in the body
that wasn't taken out, and they could be hemorrhaging, wasn't
sowed up properly at the hospital. Headaches could mean a
number of things. There could be a blood clot somewhere
(19:50):
and that has happened. You've been able to spot those
because swelling will happen as well. And so it's like, well,
are why they're swelling? You know, why are they not
going down? And we advocate for them, help them get
back to the ear and they have a blood clot
and so little things. It could be a number Really,
it's all about really just getting them to advocate, go
(20:11):
back to the hospital, get checked, because we just don't
know what that individual symptom is or what it could
actually mean in that person.
Speaker 7 (20:23):
Now you're talking or just mentioned going back to the hospital,
And we spoke earlier today to a mom whose daughter
did exactly that was having symptoms, went back and she
died several days later. What's happening in those hospitals that
the level of care these moms need to receive is missing.
Speaker 11 (20:42):
They're not listening, The doctors are not listening. They are
telling them their story that they're saying, this is what's
wrong with me, But they're not listening to the words
that are coming.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Out of her mouth.
Speaker 11 (20:53):
I had a really good friend of mine she passed
three days after birth, and so she did the exact
same thing. She called at the hospital every single day.
She had a very she had a headache. She kept
telling them that she had this horrible headache. Part of
the placenta was left in her body, which was causing
this headache. And so by the time her husband just
(21:16):
said forget it, I'm about to take you back in,
she died on the table. It was they just didn't
want to hear what she was saying. They dismiss our pain,
dismissed the words that we're actually saying that we are hurting,
we're suffering, we need support, we need help.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
This is a problem, this is an.
Speaker 11 (21:33):
Issue, and they are just throwing a pill at it.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
Or you know, it's normal, it's birth.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
You'll be good now. You said the word we Are
you using that specifically for a certain group or population?
And why black women? Because black women are three to
four times likely to die in childbirth. Here in the
state of Texas, the death rate is seventeen pointtion.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
I believe, yes, our deaths are one hundred thousand deaths.
Speaker 11 (22:06):
That's just in Texas, but the national rate is sixty
nine zero point nine. This is just Black women that
are dying at this rate three to four times higher
than that of white women. And so but then if
you look at just a morbidity, like something that just
could go wrong and they don't die or morbidity is
(22:28):
just as bad because maybe they're black. Pressure is high,
right and they're not checking it, and so that is
being dismissed or they almost died. That is what a
morbidity is. They almost die, right, And so that percentage
is one hundred and thirty nine percent of Black women
that almost die in childbirth. But the sad part about
(22:52):
that is that's a long lasting effect. So whatever happened
to them in childbirth, that is going to come up
years later. So they're going to have diabetes, or they're
going to have what pressure issues, or they're going to
have heart issues. That is going to come up later.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
On in life.
Speaker 11 (23:09):
And this is what's happening to our black women. You know,
in the community, we're not we're be ignored, We're not
going to listen to and our symptoms, you.
Speaker 6 (23:20):
Know, they they they are being dismissed.
Speaker 7 (23:24):
Where does a duel come in, What role do you
play and what change do you hope to make.
Speaker 11 (23:28):
One of the biggest things we're doing is advocacy. We're
helping them avocate for themselves. We're making sure that they
get like our organization, we're making sure that these women
are getting to the hospital that the doctor is actually
listening to them, because what happens is.
Speaker 6 (23:45):
They you know, who is this, Well, this is my doula.
Speaker 11 (23:48):
Oh so this is a professional you know that I
brought along with me. So of course they're going to
be on their you know, p's and q's and try.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
To do what's bets for for that parent.
Speaker 11 (24:00):
And so we see it because that's how we were
able to catch these blood cloths, because they are going
to go and check them for real, you know, And
so that is that's one thing.
Speaker 6 (24:12):
But then we're listening.
Speaker 11 (24:14):
So when a mother tells us that she's not feeling good,
she means that we know she's not feeling well. Yes,
there are some things that's normal after birth, which is
why we talk to them and assess them and ask
all the open ended questions, you know.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
Not just so how are you okay? Yes, well that's
not enough.
Speaker 11 (24:33):
Did you take a bath to date? Yes, you know, no,
when was the last time? Tell me what that experience
was like. Like, we need to know exactly what's going
on in your household, what's going on in your life,
so that we can help assess and advocate for you
for your health.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
The goal more says, is as simple as it sounds,
to stabilize and maintain the help of the moms they serve.
Because they are part of the same community, they understand
the life challenges many of their moms.
Speaker 11 (25:00):
For the full year our organization, we check on our
mothers every single month, and then they can come into
this beautiful space and we can support them here and
we have two bedrooms. Mothers can reserve and relax and rest.
We take care of their baby while they're resting. We
feed them before they leave, and then we have a
one on one visit with them to make sure that
(25:21):
all things are okay. We do the exact same thing
inside their homes, and so when we're checking on them
five months down the line, it's because maybe they lost
their job or maybe they're now having food insecurities. Right,
so you want to continue to check and monitor your
families for that full year, because you never know if
(25:42):
you have to go back, if you have to help
them with rental assistance, if you need to refer them
to another community partner. We want to make sure that
they're not just surviving, that they're thriving.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
So for expecting moms, when should they contact a duel
if they're interested in bringing WAND on their team, and
if they select to do what does it mean that
they don't get medical care facility or can we do BOMs?
Speaker 6 (26:06):
You absolutely want to do both.
Speaker 11 (26:08):
You need to contact a doula pre pregnancy. We want
you to be educated prior to becoming pregnant. I think
that for black women we need that, we need to
be educated. My girlfriend that passed away three days after birth,
she actually did that. She educated herself prior to even
becoming pregnant. She ate all the right foods, she exercised,
(26:31):
she went to her appointments readilarly, just like she was
supposed to.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
Yet she still died. Yet she still died.
Speaker 11 (26:38):
That doesn't take away the fact that you should still
have that education. You need it. But now getting the
doula is now there to help you advocate now right,
If she would have had a doula, that dula would
have advocated for her help and got her back in there,
made that doctor and talk to her and figure out
what was going on with her. I think that's what's
(26:59):
unique about us and that's the value that we hold.
And so getting a duel right away. You want to
talk to your midwives or physicians.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
You want to plan ahead.
Speaker 11 (27:11):
If you don't do that as soon as you find
out you're pregnant, start on that team. Get that birth
team together so that they can help you throughout your
whole entire journey. And then you can advocate that you're
going to advocate for your health.
Speaker 7 (27:23):
And what goes into selecting our good and qualified doul
What are we looking for?
Speaker 11 (27:29):
Someone who's passionate, someone who hears you and listens to you,
someone that is qualified, right. You want to make sure
that person is certified or has been with families, has
a great reputation in the community, or you know, just
within the birth world itself. But you want to make
(27:51):
sure you match. That's the best thing about this work
is when you sit down with a family, you want
to make sure that you align with one another. And
if you don't know me being a trainer, a doula trainer.
I always say past the job only to someone else
I've trained. I interview with many families that I passed
on to other duelists because it just wasn't a good fit.
(28:13):
And I believe that you should in that space is
so sacred that you really want to be with a
family that you know, you want to serve.
Speaker 7 (28:21):
That family doesn't feel comfortable, they then should do the same.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
To do the same.
Speaker 11 (28:26):
Absolutely, absolutely get someone in your space that you feel
comfortable with.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Currently, there are an estimated nine thousand dulas in the US.
Ten percent of them are believed to be black. We'll
hear more from Princilla and the role of dulas are
playing and addressing the black maternal health crisis during bi
in's public health awareness campaign this summer.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Well.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Maternal health refers to the nine months of pregnancy leading
up to the birth of a child and the twelve
months after a baby is born. During those critical twenty
one months, health conditions can arise, threatening the health of
the mother. Health cancers that develop but do not lead
to death are categorized as maternal morbidity. Those that do
lead to death are known as maternal mortality. Both are
(29:09):
major concerns in the black community. In some instances, social
determinants factor into the equation, as research shows a lack
of transportation and access to healthcare, poverty, inadequate education, housing instability,
food and security, and exposure to violence and other stressors
can impact a woman's maternal health.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
So we're going around to our social service agency. We
educate over five hundred months a day to stay through
Friday through a social service agency, and the mothers take classes,
live with the teacher and they earn baby bucks to
shock and the Baby Benefit.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Ty Bona Hickman is founder and CEO of Violess House,
a multifaceted nonprofit headquartered in South Dallas that helps mothers
survive pregnancy and the vital months afterwards. The Baby Benefit
boutique she just mentioned is a retail component of that operation.
Parents earned dollars to shop at the store by taking
classes online. It's open to anyone needing help and willing
(30:12):
to take the courses.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Economic stability is one of the key factors of the
social determinants of health, because if the household is stable,
then the mother is stable enough to get to healthcare.
The mother is stable more stable with her mental health
where she's not worrying about, Okay, how am I going
to provide for this baby? How am I going to
get diapers for this baby? So the economic stability piece
(30:37):
is really really important through our social service agency because
it directly impacts the social determinants of health.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Housing insecurity was a first social determin at that Thauna
address when she found it Violess House over ten years ago.
She first provided shelter to homeless pregnant teens and a
two bedroom apartment. That shelter now takes place in a
two story home.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Tomorrow. I'm going to be three months and I'm actually excited.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Twenty one year old Stella Kirk is one of the
newer residents at Viola's house. Prior to her arrival, Stella
said she was living with her boyfriend's family in Austin,
and his mother asked her to leave when she became pregnant.
Before that, she lived with her grandmother after her father
died and her mother fell on hard times. During my
recent visit to Dallas, Stella talked about her current situation.
Speaker 7 (31:29):
So, what brought you to Violin's house?
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I actually was homeless and was actually trying to find
resources knowing that I was from Dallas and it was
either coming back to my hometown or going to Chicago,
and I just felt like Chicago was too far away,
and I felt like being in Dallas I would be
(31:52):
able to get more help from more resources. My aunt
she couldn't take me in, but she did give me
the flyer too. All his house so far. I can't
speak for everyone, but I know for myself being here
has helped tremendously. I was actually being grateful that they
(32:12):
did accept me and that they did have a bed open.
They had helped fun for our groceries, even though everything
was last minute. They didn't. They were very welcoming. They
didn't make me feel like, oh, this is just another
charity case we're taking in, or oh this is just
another person, like they'll be here until they're just not
(32:34):
like they have helped and have continuously helped. My dad's
favorite thing was a closed mouth doesn't get fed as
long as you speak up or let them know, Hey,
this is what I need or this is what I'm
trying to do. They have no problem helping at all.
Speaker 7 (32:50):
Whop us understand what it's like to be pregnant and alone.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Honestly, it could be very scary to be pregnant, to
be bringing in another human, a child, a another blessing
into this world and not feeling like you have a
leg to stand on, or not feeling like you know
there's somebody in your corner. Viola's house is that person?
(33:16):
Viola's house is that that program that will put you
on your feet and allow you to know that it's okay.
And these things do happen, and it's unfortunate that it happens,
but there are ways to come around it and deal
with it.
Speaker 7 (33:30):
What was it like to be homelesss What emotions would
go through your mind? What would you think about when
you moved be on the street and you have no
place to go?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Honestly, I was scared. I was really terrified. I didn't
know what the next move was. I didn't know how
I was gonna take care of my baby, knowing that
I was its main nutrition spot or its main source
of power or help. I wasn't even able to provide
a meal for myself, so how I was gonna push
through or help then the human being growing inside of
(34:02):
me was just scary. I was upset, I was angry.
I felt like it was my fault because here I
am homeless, We're nowhere to go finding out I'm pregnant,
not knowing what to expect or what's to come next.
It was just scary.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Statistics show maternal women over the age of forty die
at nearly five times a rate of younger women. Still,
it is estimated that in twenty twenty three, forty percent
of homeless women between the ages of eighteen and twenty
four were pregnant at some point during that year. How
important are programs like Viola's House and helping young ladies
(34:37):
who find themselves in places of hopelessness.
Speaker 9 (34:41):
I can't tell you how very, very import it is
to have Viola's House. And it's very different from a shelter,
I'll say, because we have to pivot or showing love
even when the resident is not being loving, and there
(35:05):
are not many places you can go, even some homes
you can go where that happens.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Doctor Asteria Miller provides mental health services to the residents
of Viola's House. She says the outlook for any pregnant
woman without shelter is often bleak without intervention. What happens
when these residential homes like Viola's house and any others.
That's casting a net to catch our young ladies who
are in a state of distress. What happens if these homes,
(35:35):
these facilities go away? What happens to these young ladies
in particular?
Speaker 6 (35:40):
I just have to be blunt death.
Speaker 9 (35:42):
Did I believe these young women would go off somewhere
and either spiritually die or physically die mentally die?
Speaker 11 (35:57):
Did?
Speaker 9 (35:58):
Because if you are are unhealthy mentally, spiritually, physically all
three or just one of the three, there's no way
you can launch that baby to success.
Speaker 10 (36:12):
No way.
Speaker 9 (36:13):
These young women would not be able to manage life,
let alone. They're having a hard time managing their lives.
And let's just get over the fact that they're where
they are. They're there and there's a need. And until
we can do some things to help with that need
right now, we can't make any changes so that things
(36:37):
will get better for the lives in the future. When
we are looking and did for all of these young women.
I don't care what color they are, I don't care
what socioeconomic status they are. I don't care where they
come from. Did we're looking.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
At dead presidents stay at Biola's house for several months
after their children are born. While there, they take online parenting,
career and life skills development courses to prepare for their futures.
Stella is studying to become certified in the insurance industry.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
But I am a worried that people do not care
how much you know until they know that you care.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
As for Thana Hickman, safeguarding the health of black moms
is our top priority. For her. The mother of three daughters,
recently welcome to grandson into the world. You may hear
her daughter taking care of the baby Asthana and I
talked while sitting at her dining room table.
Speaker 12 (37:33):
The first thing that I say is Violus's house opens
a door and provides immediate access to housing, to food, transportation,
access to healthcare because we have a clinic right on site,
economic stability. All of these things are the social determinants
(37:55):
of health, especially for a mother during pregnancy. If a
mother doesn't have stable housing, she could care less about
getting to her maternal care appointments because she is in
survival mode for her life at the moment. She can't
even really think about the sur bible of that baby. Typically,
(38:17):
if a mother doesn't have access to housing or transportation.
We have seen where people overutilize uber eats, things like
that they're getting the wrong foods because they don't have
transportation to go to grocery stores. We have a little
mini grocery store right on site with our partner church, Cornerstone,
(38:38):
where they can get access to fresh food immediately. When
you look at the social determinants of health and all
of the things around that will, that is where Biola's
House thrives. We are one of the few organizations that
you will find that focuses on every single thing around
(39:00):
that will. We have licensed counselors there on site. We
give transportation. If you're in our maternity home, you are
not taking the bus to get to your doctor's appointments
or to get your kids to the pediatrician. We do
job training mental health. Did I say that because I
need to say that again? Right there on site. Our
(39:23):
COEO is one of the best therapists you'll ever meet.
She's been a licensed clinical social worker for over twenty years,
maybe twenty five years. So at Biola's House, while we
focus on the social determinants of health, we do it
by looking at everything that it takes to impact a
(39:43):
mother's health. In that child's health.
Speaker 6 (39:46):
That's so tremendous.
Speaker 13 (39:49):
You have a message for our listeners who all may
not be aware of how big build black material health
crisises of you, how it stan What do you most
want them to know.
Speaker 12 (40:02):
The first thing that I'm going to say to the
listeners who don't even know that there's a black maternal
health crisis is that it's real. Every single day, Black
mothers are dying from giving birth. I said to someone today,
it is to the point where black mother literally has
(40:24):
to choose do I want to live or do I
want to die based on the provider that I'm with
and the steps that I take during my maternal care process.
And that is literally how critical this issue is. I
read stories weekly of mothers that are dying in hospitals
(40:48):
right around me, and most of it is preventable having
the access to take care of yourself during your pregnancy.
It's right there, It's at the fingertips, and they don't know.
Making sure you choose the right provider, making sure you
choose the right labor and delivery unit based on the
(41:13):
hospital that you're at. I will tell people that this
is so real and it could happen in your family
at any moment. You could be celebrating at a baby
shower in one moment with the woman in your family
given birth and planning her funeral two months later. If
(41:38):
you don't educate yourself on the black maternal health crisis
that is happening right now in the US, it is real.
And the saddest part is most people don't know that
it's happening until it impacts them directly and they lose
(41:58):
a loved one, they lose a wife, they lose a child,
and then they question what is happening here? And we're
here telling you that it's happening every day and something
has got to be done about it.
Speaker 13 (42:15):
What's the answer?
Speaker 8 (42:18):
Boy?
Speaker 12 (42:20):
I wish I knew the answer for racism. I don't
have the answer to that. I know that the healthcare
training is implicitly biased. I know that the healthcare training
does not specifically meet the needs of Black women. You're
(42:41):
gonna hear time and time again as you interview Andrea
that we are not heard in the healthcare systems. You
can ask ten people that are providers in the maternal
care space why, and I think ten of us will
tell you we are not heard. And so We've got
(43:03):
to get with providers that hear us. We've got to
get with doulas and midwives that listen to us, that
understand our bodies during this process, because right now none
of us have the answer for racism, and so.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
We have to do our part.
Speaker 12 (43:23):
You can't go around racism. You can just make different
choices in your provider and who services you during your pregnancy.
We don't have the answer, Andrea, we may both leave
this earth without ever having the answer as to why
(43:45):
racism exists in the healthcare systems. It doesn't matter if
your nurse is black, it doesn't matter if your doctor
is black. And I want to make that very very clear.
It is the implicit bias healthcare training.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
That they receive.
Speaker 12 (44:05):
They don't understand that the training is underlined in racism.
And it doesn't matter that they're black. It doesn't matter
if they're brown, Chinese, that doesn't matter. It's the training.
Speaker 6 (44:18):
Explain that words. Break it down a little bit.
Speaker 12 (44:21):
Okay, I'll break it down to you. I'm not in
the medical field, but it's based on my lived experiences
from doing this work for so long. When you enter
into a healthcare system, immediately when you give your demographic.
There are immediate risks that apply to you, whether that
(44:46):
risk is real for you or not. I don't have
high blood pressure, I don't take any medications. But when
I go into a hospital and they learn my age
and my demographic, they are risks factors applied to me.
They have to treat me according to those risk factors,
(45:08):
whether they exist with me Fana as the person or not,
because it's based on their training, and sometimes that doesn't
work for all women. In twenty twenty three, we had
over sixty percent of the girls in the maternity home
come back from the hospital with a C section between
the age of eighteen to twenty one. Why because they
(45:33):
reach a certain point in their laboring and it doesn't
matter if the mother says I want to try. Their
training tells them stop trying at this point and cut
through seven layers of skin and complete one of the
most dangerous surgeries that anyone can have on their body.
(45:59):
To eighteen year old, that's what training tells them to do.
That's what training tells them to do. Best example of that,
I was seventeen years old when I gave birth and
I reached a point in labor and the doctors weren't comfortable.
My mother had given birth to seven babies, and she
(46:19):
looked at those doctors. She advocated for me. She said,
she is seventeen. You are not giving her a sea section.
She will have to have a sea section with every
other baby she has. Let her complete this labor.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
She can do it.
Speaker 12 (46:33):
And she looked at me and she said, I need
you to do it. I need you to push this
baby out. You can do it, she advocated for me.
So when you look at training and you look at
processes that are done, it's not often just based on
(46:56):
that individual person that's in front of them. It's based
on a process or procedure that they are trained to follow.
And the issue is about health care training. Yeah, and
so we're big on having people advocate in hospital rooms.
(47:18):
We have met wives that sit with our moms now
at the maternity home until one hour before it's time
for her to give birth. We look for five one
one five to one one is five minutes apart one
minute contractions for one hour, and then she goes because
then we know she's ready to give birth within about
(47:39):
forty five minutes, and we see less of a risks
of a C section happening because she's going into the
hospital ready to give birth. There's so many factors at
work here, right, But if mothers educate themselves during their pregnancy,
(48:04):
they know what tests to ask for during their pregnancy,
They know their provider. What is your provider providing to you?
What is a provider providing to you? And are they
meeting the need of everything you need so that you
(48:24):
can feel comfortable with knowing that you will labor well
and have a healthy birth.
Speaker 13 (48:32):
Your message to the young woman maybe feeling a measure
of shame, your hope for them in your message.
Speaker 6 (48:43):
To them as to why they shouldn't feel alone.
Speaker 13 (48:48):
And why they're worth real light.
Speaker 12 (48:53):
Every life matters, Every life is worth my fight because
we only get one. They don't get a redo. If
they lose their life due to given birth, they don't
get another opportunity, So we've got one chance to save them.
Every life matters. They need to find an organization like
(49:17):
Viola's House, where every life matters to us from the
wound to the tomb. We don't just care about the
baby when they are in the mother's stomach. We care
about that baby thriving. And if you don't feel like
you have that level of support in the community that
(49:38):
you're in. You need to find a community organization like
Viola's House and get to that support. Run to that support,
run to the education, run to the childbirth and classes,
get to someone that will advocate for you, get to
(50:00):
someone who will educate you. If you don't know where
that person is, call us whatever city you're in and
we will find that organization for you, because it is
just that important.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
At the time we spoke, Dona was preparing to head
to DC for Black Maternal Health Week, an important trip
for the future of her nonprofit as she recently lost
close to two million dollars in state and federal funding.
Will have an update on her situation when our public
awareness campaign, Saving Black Moms a Maternal Health Crisis kicks
off this summer. If you're just joining us, you are
(50:41):
listening to a special edition of The Black Perspective on
the Black Maternal Health Crisis. I'm Andrea Coleman. The CDC
cites the World Health Organization's definition of a maternal death
as a woman dying while pregnant or within forty two
days after delivering a baby or terminating a pregnancy. To
that definition, the CDC says there were six hundred sixty
(51:04):
nine maternal debts in twenty twenty three. That number includes
women of all races and ethnicities. The direct and indirect
economic cost of those debts are estimated to be close
to thirty two billion dollars. That includes items like loss productivity,
behavioral and development issues in surviving children, and increased demand
for social services. But by some accounts, the toll of
(51:27):
black maternal mortality is even higher. As we prepare to
wrap up our program, we turn our attention to the
impacts of maternal health on the black family and the
Black community. Casey Polite, the social worker and COO of
Biola's House hu Thana mentioned earlier, explains just how deep
those losses go.
Speaker 14 (51:46):
I think this is an important piece to consider with
black maternal health, with what happens now that this mom
is no longer there to be a mother right on
that aspect, the impact that it has on the children
and their understanding of what happened to mom and what
(52:11):
caused the death. What concerns me about that narrative is
the continued message that our black bodies don't matter, that
black life itself isn't important enough to intervene and support
and save a life. That what we're learning through Black
(52:33):
maternal health. Most of the time it's preventable. So how
that then impacts a child's understanding of their own life,
and how that then impacts their emotional well being. And
then we have to think about this child now entering
the school system, entering the workforce, right, making decisions about
(52:56):
their body. It's now all informed by the loss of
their mother in this way. So there's so many layers
to the impact. You now have grandparents other family members
that have to step in and raise children and that
(53:17):
was not part of their plan. So thinking about how
that then impacts the child raising process with someone who
never intended on raising this child or these children, I
automatically go to the emotional and the behavioral impact that
that has what's being projected onto that child. Right when
(53:41):
we think about the children that may look just like
mom that died, and the caregiver's ability to manage their
own grief and understanding of that process when they're looking
at a child that reminds them of someone that is
no longer here, right, we have to think about how
does that inform parenting? And we know that the matriarch
(54:05):
of families right historically within our culture plays a very
significant role in our communities. And the challenge too is
what happens when there isn't a father there. So if
the mom is gone and the father was absent, we
have a huge gap.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
But sometimes a father is present and takes up raising
the surviving child, our children on his own.
Speaker 6 (54:33):
The impact on.
Speaker 15 (54:35):
That father, that supporting spouse, what might that look like
for them, and what is a logical and reasonable expectation
for grieving and mourning the loss of that mom.
Speaker 4 (54:49):
Yes, so I.
Speaker 14 (54:49):
Think it's important when we talk about grief, it's recognizing
that not only is it phases that people go through,
but there is no no amount of time that someone
has officially grieved the loss of a loved one. So
it's important for family members, community members not to pressure
(55:13):
dad to kind of have his grief resolved in a
certain amount of time because it's very unfair for his
process right to go through that. And he's also now
has this added responsibility of raising a child by himself,
(55:34):
right without mom and really at a critical time as
an infant. And we know with black maternal health, we
lose moms within that first year so we have to
think about there are moms that we lose that it
wasn't during childbirth, it's six months later, right, and so
there has already been some bonding that's happened, There's already
(55:55):
been an established routine and maybe breastfeeding and things like that,
and so now we've interrupted all of that, and if
now asking dad to come in, And then if you
think about dads that might have been raised by single moms,
right or maybe just not in a two parent household,
and how their story now informs how they parent and grieve,
(56:21):
so that that village perspective is extremely important for these dads.
And again, often if they are the main provider of
the household, may still have a lot of absent time
from this child and have to rely on other caregivers
within their village to help support raising the child.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Casey says it's important to consider the mental and physical
health of the father, as he may be challenged in
those areas as well. In the case of Nicole Berryman's
daughter Tierra, what about you?
Speaker 11 (56:57):
I Alaiah?
Speaker 3 (57:01):
What a beautiful name? Old are you?
Speaker 7 (57:02):
Eliyah me?
Speaker 1 (57:04):
Nicole is now raising her children, which includes three year
old Elijah, who we just heard from while grieving the
passing of her daughter. Nicole says she and her grandchildren
embrace any signs that may signal Tierra It's still with
them in some way.
Speaker 7 (57:20):
The message to your grandchildren, what are you going to
tell me about their mother?
Speaker 11 (57:23):
She's an angel and.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
She's with the everywhere they go, everywhere they go.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
Her seven year old Saturday, send me a.
Speaker 6 (57:31):
Picture of group redbird on the roof old house and
she said, is this my mom? I said it is.
She's making sure you okay.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
That same we a bird came the day she passed
and just stared in our window for a long time.
Speaker 6 (57:47):
So it's gonna be it's gonna be a tough road.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Yeah, according to the statistics, that's a cinement many black
families are likely feeling. The Black Information Network offers our
heartfelt and sincere condolences to the Berryman family and all
families who have experienced such a loss. Our look at
black maternal health, its impacts and possible solutions will continue
this summer when bim's public awareness campaign Saving Black Moms
(58:13):
on Maternal Health Prices continues on June second, and tune
in for a special feature on Thana Hickman on leaving
while Black May fourth, at ten thirty am Eastern. We
thank you for joining us for this special edition of
The Black Perspective. I'm Andrea Coleman, and this is the
Black Information Network. We now return to regularly scheduled programming
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.