Campaign 2024 - Leon County Schools Superintendent of Education Candidate Joe Burgess

Preston's visit with Leon County Schools Superintendent of Education Candidate Joe Burgess.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Mister Joe Burgess has been the longtime principal at Chiles High School in northeast
Leon County. He has chosen torun for the office of Superintendent of Education
for the Leon County School District,and he and I sat down for what
proved to be a very lengthy chat. So gather yourself something to snack on,

(00:24):
and settle in for a while.All right, Joe, welcome,
How are Yeah? How good?Thank you sir for having me. Absolutely
Now, this is as relaxed aformat as can be. Yeah, we're
just going to talk. So forthose that might not know the snapshot,
you're running for superintendent of education,your principal at a local high school.

(00:46):
Yes, how's that working? Peopleprobably say I'm a little crazy, but
so my current job, I'm theprincipal of Chiles High School. And how
long have you been there? I'vebeen there at twelve years fourteen overall.
I was there two years as anassistant principal as well. And actually it's
my third school that I've run.So I've actually wanted a few who have
been a principal at an elementary school, a middle school, and a high

(01:08):
school. Okay, so the elementwhich is the easiest of the I know
that none of them is easy,right. I know being a principal is
not ever going to be easy.But of the three stages, what's the
easiest. Probably elementary, That's whatmy bet was gonna be. But I
will say so if I was sayingit like as a teacher, the hardest

(01:30):
one is middle school. And thatis because and anybody who out there who
has a kid who's in middle school, I pray for you every day because
you remember that the middle schoolers areup and down. They love you one
day, hate you the next.They've got actne one day there's somebody who
they looked at. They can't eventhink right. You're you're battling with them

(01:51):
about their hygiene. They're allergic todeodorant, trying to give them to brusht
their teeth. You know, highschool is very different just because the complexity
of the now. I will saythe most intense thing you could face on
a principal level is a missing kidoff a bus in elementary because that mother
there's a look that she's going togive through you, and if you don't

(02:12):
have an answer with transportation, shewill also hurt you. So I will
tell you just for those first coupleof days, that was probably the most
nerve racking time was that if thatkid didn't show up, we are hustling
going around trying to find where thatkid is and so we can get them
home. Because nothing like a madmama in elementary school. And it should
be. I mean, that's theirbabies and children. Yes, and so

(02:37):
even though you know, you canmake the statement why I'm not in charge
of transportation, right, so asa principal, translation has their own department,
but they're my partner. They werethe Elsie is tag and so if
they don't get that kid delivered home, I'm in the boat with them,
you know. And so it's like, hey, we got to come up
with an answer. So, youknow, but all three are wonderful.
I mean, you know what Itell others that have become elementary principles,

(03:00):
be ready to be like a localcelebrity. Like if you are in the
mall, in the family sees you, the entire family's going to stop and
take a picture with you. Right. It's that way when you're in middle
school. It's kind of like,man, it's almost like being on a
sitcom show, you know, Imean middle schoolers between six and through eighth
grade go through some serious changes.Right. You can have kids who look

(03:21):
in kindergarten, you can have kidswho look grown, all on the same
campus, you know, high school. Like I said, it's about the
complexities, right. You got ninthgraders who can't drive, and you got
seniors who may have been driving forthree years. And you know they grow
a better beard than I do.And there are there are funny issues,
but there are very serious issues allat the same time. And so you

(03:43):
have to know how to manage sucha large staff, such a large school.
Also, how can you be responsiveto such a large community. How
has social media changed the dynamics forschools? Oh my gosh, so on
different levels, right, So onone level, let's just start with the
kids. So it used to bewhen I was in school, the worst

(04:06):
you would have would be used tohave the paper that people would have.
You would fold it in and outand you might have something written on there,
something terrible about someone, or youhad a slam book, remember you
remember those. I don't know.So it's like a notebook and you could
put somebody's name in there, andyou could put different parts and it would
say like a noun a verb thatwas like in the eighties, right,

(04:27):
And so what's different now is socialmedia. They have so much at their
fingertips and it almost you know howour grandparents, I know, would talk
to a lot of kids about don'tbe so vain. Social media allows you
to really be vain because you canpost your picture a thousand times. You
can if you really want to destroysomeone, you really can't because your reach

(04:53):
is so fast. If you know, it used to be radio used to
be one of the only ways youcould reach a lot of people at one
time. But even and then youhad to be very careful the way you
did it. Social media there's likeno restrictions, right because you can be
anonymous, yes, yes, andso you can go get the fake accounts.
Now they've got AI, right,so you got all these things.
And so you know, one ofthe things that I worry about, not

(05:14):
only as a prince, as aparent somebody running for superintendent is like,
we've got to coach up our parentsto be more conscious about what their kids
are doing on social media, evenif they don't individually like it. You
know, what I would equate itto is back in the day, you
wouldn't let your kid, even ifthey could drive, You wouldn't let them
get in a car and drive allthe way to San Antonio, Texas.

(05:35):
Why because there could be bad peoplethere. I know no one there.
Social media puts you in the sameperspective. It will put you in San
Antonio without you physically having to bethere, and it will put you in
touch with people who have bad intentionsabout you. Right, everything from you
know, we've talked about the humantrafficking, right, I mean, thankfully

(05:56):
the state they are all well intuned about that. We have to be
watching our kids. Who are theyconnected with. You know, it used
to be a time that, ohthat was at home. We didn't intervene.
No, we need we need anintervene. We need to talk about
we need to make sure that we'restaying in tune with our kids. Joe,
Orange County, which from a politicalspectrum perspective would be looked at as

(06:17):
a very liberal school district. Theyhave gone very successfully. I might add
to a program where they do notallow cell phones out at all. If
a student has a cell phone withthem, that's fine. It's there for
emergencies, but if they need touse it, they have to go to

(06:38):
the office. Like the old dayswhen you had to go to the office
to make a call to mom ordad. They have to go to the
office and make the call. Otherthan that, it's not out at lunchtime.
It's not out at pe it's notout in between classes. It's not
out at all. It's a violation. It's working. They're talking about how
students are engaging with each other inthe lunch room. They're no more stage

(07:00):
fights. To put it on YouTubeor TikTok or whatever, would you favor
such a thing. So there areparts of that that I really like.
I think that is something that weprobably need to discuss with our parents.
Right there are I absolutely see thepluses of it. So as a former
classroom teacher, right you know,you can't have phones out and think that,

(07:23):
oh, kids are going to bedistracted. I mean, first of
all, that happens with adults.You put a bunch of adults in the
room, you got phones out,they are distracted. So I do believe
that yes, phones should be up. I would prefer not to have them
out and about not to be used, but I would like to have that
dialogue with the parents as far aswhat they were comfortable with. And the
reason that I say that is youwould need to work out some structures.

(07:47):
For example, if a kid isin a foster home, if they're in
certain kind of situations maybe where theyneed part of their plans to have release,
have somebody to call. Now,just like you gave the example,
I guess they worked that where theyhave a release to go to the office
or go to a counselor and talkto someone. And that's the kind of
thing that you would have to havein place, you know, just making
sure because there are those circumstances thatyou would need to have in place to

(08:09):
make sure we weren't in a senseby the rule that we've made harmed this
group of kids, you know whowould need that. But I think I
mean you and I went to schoolwithout them, yes, and we got
along just fine, right saying,and they can't. And I will say
this, and that was one ofthe things that the pandemic made difficults that
people weren't talking to each other.And it's worse on the kids. Right.

(08:31):
You see kids, if you goto the mall, you'll see kids
in a group looking down at theirphones and not connecting with one another.
You watch a team go on atrip on the bus, what's the first
thing they do? They sit down, They start looking at their phones literally
sending a message to the person who'stwo seats away. Right, we know,
just open your voice up and sayhey, how's it going, or

(08:52):
you know, you go through yourconversation. I think there are skills that
our kids are not picking up becausethey're not having that connection. They don't
know how to tackfully work their wayout of an issue. Right. You
know, when you go work foran employee, there may be something that
you need to say to get somekind of change as an employee, But

(09:13):
if you're not practicing it, howcan you execute it when you're just thrust
into it. So is that anissue where you would, for example,
talk to the superintendent at Orange CountySchools and say, tell me about what
you're doing and how it's working,or what do you do to form an
opinion on whether this is a goodidea or not? Well, thanks for
that question. You absolutely should.First of all, any district leaders more

(09:35):
than one should always be reaching outto others. It should be a two
way conversation because there could be thingsthat get from Leon County that they may
want to emulate in Orange County.You also want to have like your community
conversations where you're going out and you'retalking to the people. So something that
I do every week I do aFacebook live right now. I don't have
all the beautiful equipment that you havein here, but it's basically my phone

(09:58):
and me talking to the people whoare following my page. And I don't
duck the issues like we talk aboutit. It's important that people and they
also need to hear how you thinkout of process, but they also need
to know that they can send thingsto you. Because here's the thing I
serve the public and the current jobthey have and the job that I'm asking
for. I serve the public.So if they can't speak to me,

(10:20):
if I'm not approachable, if theydon't even know how to think, it's
almost like how can they feel thatthey have a part to play in it?
And to me, you definitely needto go out. You need to
talk to parents, You need tohave you know, of course you're hearing
from the board members. You alsoneed to talk to the other school principles
because you need to make sure you'vegot great rules laid down that they can
follow. Just like from being anold classroom teacher, I always say this

(10:41):
kind of mantra, don't make arule that you can't enforce, right.
I used to say that in myclassroom because they would say, oh,
you only got a couple of rulesup. Those are the ones I know
I can enforce. You know,you go in the room, they got
ten rules up. All you're gonnado is you gonna see referrals coming from
that room. Right, few rulesand it makes it easy on the kids.
You know, when we talking aboutmidle school and I say, continue

(11:01):
to pray for those teachers. Themore rules you have in place, it's
hard for them to keep up andthey feel like it's always a gotcha.
But you need to make sure thateverybody knows the process. If a kid
violists. You know, this isnot thing that we're trying to sing you
home. But it's like that weprotect the instructional environment. Right, It's
like church, like we don't messaround here. This is too important.

(11:24):
You've got other time that you canget on your phones and all that.
But I would welcome having a communityconversation about that and how how to get
the rules laid out. Let's backinto the decision, because I mean,
in the chain of command, you'rea principal and you're running to replace your

(11:45):
boss. Yes, that can't bean easy decision to make. I mean,
right, look, it just iswhat it is. But every candidate
that I talked to, and I'vetalked to a few over twenty three years
here by running, your implying Ican do the job differently and to a
certain extent better. What is itthat drew you to make this decision?

(12:11):
Because I don't care what the postis. Running for office is not for
the faint of heart, that iscorrect. So what pushed you? What
nudged you? What was the thingthat said, okay, I'm going to
get involved. So let me backup this. As far as running for

(12:31):
office for superintendent and it could havebeen appointed, it is something that I
wanted to do. So I havestudied since I was twenty two to be
an educational leader. Right, Sothe first way I was an educational leader
was as a coach and as ateacher. But this was part of the
journey that I wanted to have.Now, okay, but I also wanted
to make sure that I fully investedmyself in every position that I had.

(12:54):
And I tell folks that even whenI first became Prince Wellst. Springwood,
I didn't have for the job.Mister Pond's actually moved me to elementary.
I'm a secondary person by nature,you know. When he sent me there,
like I had to go home andI had to like I really had
to get myself together. And peoplewas like, you were afraid to go
to elementary school. I didn't knowanything about elementary school, to be honest

(13:16):
with you, and so I hadto humble myself. But it was the
best train I ever had, becausenow I saw a glimpse of the school
district that I didn't know before.You know, I overtime, you know,
like even with my family, Isaid, you know, one day
I would like to do it,but I know what I have to do.
I have to do my jobs thatI have in front of me well.
And if I do those, theopportunity may present itself down the road

(13:41):
and so and as far as gettingto the point of making the decision,
now, I'll be honest with you. And now, back in twenty nineteen,
our superintendent and I had a conversationabout this, and I'm here to
put it on the record. Heactually wanted me to come out and replace
dot Allan Cox because he wasn't surewhen he was going to retire. If

(14:01):
you know doctor Cox, I meanhe's got he's got other investments. He
I know, he worked for alittle bit outside the state of Florida,
but he wasn't sure when he wasgoing to retire, and so he felt
like I had the experience to comeout and do his position. And I
said no. I said, ifyou just asked my preference, my preference
would be I stay out of schooluntil I would like to run for office.

(14:22):
And he because he also asked that, he says, you know,
do you see yourself as a futuresuperintendent? I said, I would like
to think, but I'm going tocontinue doing this job. Like I'm never
going to take my eyes off mycurrent job while I'm still running, right,
because I owe it to that communitywho I've been serving, who have
entrusted me with their kids for thistime, so I owe them that.
And like, for example, Idon't post anything until after I'm off work

(14:45):
because I don't do anything like that. You can send me a million messas
I'm not responding until I get offwork, you know, because to me,
that's to me is that's my ownethics that you know, you don't
do that. But you know,he asked, he said, you know,
do you want to go out?That said I don't. I said,
I'd rather I'd rather stay inside ofschools, you know. And then

(15:05):
when I'm ready, I said,you know, I'll run for office.
I say, you know, andI see that, you know not because
he was asked me if part ofit. He was asking me when I
was I was going to run twentytwenty, like had people come to me?
And I said no, I saidmaybe twenty four, you know.
But and also I was a coupleof years married. You know, my
family had moved here to Tallahassee,and so that wasn't right. But I

(15:26):
will tell you I know where Iwas feeling, and I know where my
family and a number of my friendsand supporters were. You know, I
was ready to make that lead,but you know, you have to assessing
the district. I just feel likewe're not out of place where we should
be. So exactly so we are. You know, we have a unique

(15:48):
thing here in Tallahassee. We haveFlorida State, we got FAMU, we
got TCC. Okay, you're gonnabe hard pressed to find other places around
the state that have that kind ofof educational talent in one place. So
we were built, we have aninfrastructure here that we should be top ten.
I know when I came in asa teacher under yes, yes,

(16:11):
sir, when you say top tendefined top okay, yes, top ten
districts in the state of Florida.So there's sixty seven districts in the state
of Florida, and so routinely ifyou go back, you know, ten
years, and then you go forthe previous twenty years before that, we
were consistently pretty much a top tendistrict which means what which means which means

(16:33):
out of the sixty seven districts,we ranked somewhere between one through ten most
years each. What's the metrics,So the metric would be your student performance
data, okay, right, Sograduation rate, graduation rate, So when
you do a school grad is onschool ranking. There's a number of metrics
they look at, so everything fromhow you perform on English language, arts,
math, science, graduation rate,right, and so now they do

(16:57):
it with the fast Right, we'vehad FSA, they've had all kinds of
different actions of your wife's teacher.She's been through all that, right,
and so you know, so allthose metrics right, and we were I
mean really people came to us inLeon County right where you know, you
use those words we're a diverse community, right. We have transplants, people

(17:18):
who move in, right, peoplecome from college, they stay. And
so the fact that we were successfulplaces like Bay County, Gainesville, they
came to us and say, hey, what are you doing you know,
to be so successful, But wewere also going out to them, you
know, I will say over thelast eight years, one of the things
is, first of all, wehaven't been top ten. We've actually been

(17:40):
under twenty, below twenty. Ourconversations with other districts, we don't have
that anymore. I mean, Ican tell you what. I used to
be the secondary schools principal. Sothere's an association called Florida Association Secondary School
Principals. I was actually the presidentof that, and you actually have to
run for that, you have tobe elected, right, and that means

(18:00):
we go to associations. I lovegoing to associations and going to network because
I'm humble enough to know I don'thave all the ideas. You're looking for
best practice. You're looking for bestpractices. I can tell you I went
to a national conference. So wehave a program called the Ambassadors, right,
which are our upper classroom students.And they do two things. One
they go into the homeroom of ourfreshman and sophomores. One to welcome in

(18:22):
the campus. They've got an upperclassroom, they've got a relationship with.
They give them the numbers, youknow, all their accounts, you know,
so they can reach out to them. Because you need a peer because
sometimes even before coming to adult,you may go to another peer. And
these are peers we trust. Wevet them before they go into these classrooms.
The second thing they do is theygive campus tours. I could give
a campus tour as the principal.They're not gonna talk to me every day,

(18:42):
you know. And I'm the guythat can get in trouble with so
that that could be a little nerveracking. But a fellow student, a
fellow peer who may just be ayear or two older, who knows the
campus, knows the layout, howdo you approach teachers? So we do
that program. But I got thatprogram from going to a national conference.
And listening to a rural school fromMissouri and my mom's Missouri's. That's a
little plug out to my mom.She's passed. But this school in rural

(19:04):
Missouri had a program where they weredoing this, and I was. I
was in there and listen to collegerecruiting where you're showing the possible recruit or
how things work on camp. Thinksabout it like this. You know you're
a football guy. I mean,Nick Saban goes to camps. Even as
accomplished as he is, he's humbleenough to say there are times when there

(19:26):
are things catching up with him andhe was going to learn about those,
right. He installed different offenses,He adjusted his defenses as times changed.
You have to do that as aneducational leader. If you do the same
thing, time will pass you by, right, And so when you go
to the conference. So I actuallywas sitting in there with this group from
Missouria's you know, small school,and they said, well, where are

(19:47):
you from. One of their teammembers looked my school up, right,
they looked up Childs. She said, why are you even talking to us?
I said, man, Ideas comefrom everywhere, But I was so
interested what they came up with,not I adjusted it. I didn't do
the same thing. I to theidea to fit a two thousand person school.
You know, they had a schoolof four fifty. But I said,
this is a great concept. It'sscalable, yes, and I think

(20:08):
that's what you should do as aleader, Like when I was an elementary
principal. So I went into theschool Springwood, and the school didn't look
like it did twenty five years ago. Right, this is a you know
mindset. You know your families involvedwith sports, they know mindset is a
huge thing, right, you know. And when you tell people I think

(20:29):
this place can be an A,people look at you crazy, They go,
what are you talking about? Said, we can be an A.
We have to just do things different. We have to act different, we
have to approach our kids differently.And so like one of the things is
they many of the staff members said, well, the demographics have changed,
right, and that can be allkind of cold words there, but the

(20:49):
demographics have changed. It's just mekids were different on on an initial level.
Kids weren't as affluent. Okay,so they don't come in with as
many resources. Okay. I said, well, tell me, is there
anything constant from twenty five years agountill now, and he would sit there
and they said, well me,I said, right, if everything else

(21:11):
has changed around you and you arejust you as you were twenty five years
ago, hold that mirror up andtell me you see what the issue is.
That doesn't make you a bad person, means you need to adjust.
Right, I'll give you a littlestory. So we had a young man
his parents had had his lights cutoff, and this is why I was
at spring Wood and wash. Itwas terrible, you know, like the

(21:33):
kid was upset. He was like, I couldn't do my homework. And
so what I told this one teacher, I said, well, give him
a hug, right, hug them, give them a chance to do their
homework here at school. You know, I said, if it happens again,
though, you need to help them. They said, what do you
mean help them? Like you wantme to give them money? So No,
what I want you to do isI want you to help them.
And I said, one of thethings you got to realize is that that

(21:56):
young man is probably going to havesome tough circumstances as he becomes an adult.
So we got to help him becomesomeone who can think like solve problems.
Right, So if the lights getcut off again, does he have
a way to still do his homework, Because that's because that's going to come
back up. If the lights meancut off one time, there's a good

(22:17):
chance it's going to happen again.And eventually, like with the teacher,
I got her to understand, say, oh, you know what, I
can get him to go to theneighbor's house, right, or go to
the library. You know, likeyou have to come up with solutions sometimes
even outside your parents, Like youhave to come up with solutions. But
I said, the point is isthat we've invested in that kid, and
if that kid makes it as successfuladult, they're going to be one of

(22:37):
your most successful adults. Matter offact, they're the kid that when the
recession comes along, they don't fret, they handle it, they adjust,
right, because I've already seen tougheras a kid, right, you know.
So what I was doing was saying, like, the kids that we
have with us can be successful.They just have to be successful differently.
And we also have to understand thatthey got different circumstances. I had kids

(22:59):
that had never been to the beach, were forty five minutes to the nearest
beach. They had never been tothe beach, and so a lot of
times they had trouble with word association, you know, vocabulary, And so
we did trips to build up thevocabulary. You have to increase the experiences.
They weren't going to get that athome, right. You know,
if you're at a more affluent school, parents take trips during the summer where

(23:21):
their vocabulary is being built from thetime that they are two or three years
old, where these other kids arenot having those opportunities. So the school
in a sense, you have tofill in the gaps, right, and
you can't be afraid of that.And so once we got everybody's mindset change,
and you know, I do otherthings like I cook for my staff,
right. I actually, until afew years ago, I cooked for

(23:41):
the district staff because they didn't havea camaraderie, you know, like it
was just hard for them out there. Like fellowship brings people together. It
lets you not sulking. Oh mygod, I got the toughest circumstance,
right. It actually says I'm goingto keep working to make things better for
these is. I'm gonna do thislesson differently so the kids get it.

(24:02):
Right. I always talk about lessonsshould relate to the kids sitting in front
of you. If I got abunch of kids from the country, I
don't talk about the city. IfI got a bunch of kids from the
city, I'm not talking about thecountry. Not saying you don't eventually talk
about that, but you put thelesson in terms that they relate so they
can learn it. You know,that's my job as a teacher. Like,
it's not me sitting in the seat, it's the person sitting in the

(24:22):
seat, right. You know,tell me, Joe, did there was
some animals between you and the superintendentover an issue involving your leadership at Child's
High School? Did that factor inthis at all? Nope? No,
And I want you want to gogo through it. I want to.
I want to give you the opportunityto give the cliff notes version of what
that was about. Okay. Sobasically, we have employees that we're allowed

(24:51):
to do is to give them additionalassignments. Okay, you have to,
and this especially during our hybrid COVIDtimes where you give different assignments everything from
credit retrieval to maintenance of the campus. I mean, like it's you know
it's teaching any way to earn anextra buck. Well, no, I
mean you actually have to have somethingto do. I can't just have them

(25:11):
sitting there. I mean, like, you know, we've got jobs,
and we got things that we putyou know, we need done. And
so it is to help maintain thecampus. And that means first of all,
the education of the students. Right, So that's why I brought up
the credit retrieval. I mean,you got and so what they then said,
first of all, right, it'sthey is in the district along with

(25:32):
the superintendent, right, so I'mjust kind of looping them all together.
They said that I had misused APfunds. Now I will tell you if
you go read the court finance,I absolutely did not. So then they
had to change. They found theylooked for something else, right, and
it changed a couple timescause they saidI misupproted AP funds. But actually,
if you look at it, thedistrict misappropriated AP funds. In the state

(25:53):
statue, it says that the schoolsa supposed to get eighty percent of the
funds that they generate from AP testright, college board, I can tell
you in all my time, andit aim goes back when Mster Palm's was
in the office. I've never receivedeighty percent of the funds that we've generated.
I know what the number is.We've never received eighty percent, and
that's in state statue, okay.And that's why they end up they actually

(26:15):
dropped that part, and they hada couple other things and they dropped those
Eventually. What they landed on wasthat everybody didn't sign their timesheets for excuse
me, for hourly positions at youknow that they were assigned to. I
will just tell you I had evidencethat nobody at every school ever did that

(26:37):
ever, you know. And soI will tell you. We were in
the office that first day. Hewas, he and assistant Superintendent mccowster with
me, and he said I hadlegally used AP funds until I dropped a
note on him that that's not it. Now. After that they went and
got an attorney to come do aninvestigation with me. I was at home

(27:02):
for four days, I mean fourweeks in a day, you could even.
I still have emails where they upuntil they had decided what they were
going to do. What they endedup saying it was, you know,
I didn't keep track of the timesheets, you know, and listen,
I'm not gonna sit here and sayI'm perfect. You know, there's a

(27:22):
lot of logistics and paperwork, butthe one thing that they proved in court
is that the time that people gotpaid for, they more than did the
work. And matter of fact,even the judge said he didn't find me
to be somebody who told a lieor just made stuff up. Matter of
fact, most of the evidence thatyou found in there was stuff I printed
out when it first happened, becauseI said, you approved these things.

(27:44):
I sent them to you. Idon't have anything to hide, which is
why even every time when it cameup, I had a statement ready to
go, because like I just feltlike you were trying to slammer my name.
And the reason I say that isthat the first that first day when
we're having this conversation, it wasvery tense. One he said I was
wrong, like I'm illegally doing stuffand that I'm moving you to an elementary

(28:10):
school, and I said, youabsolutely are not. I'm not going,
and you're not going to discredit myname. Like I've worked too hard.
You know, I can tell youthis. I've been at three schools,
worked with a lot of employees.It's forty five hundred employees in Leon County.
You would be hard pressed to findsomebody to say, who I mistreated
them? I just make it.I don't. I really don't like that.

(28:33):
That's not the way I was raised. And I'm a rule follower,
you know, I follow rules.So even to this day, we don't
have a policy on any of that. Like they said they were going to
make a possible, they haven't madea policy. You know, there's not
you know, and actually what thejudge ruled on was not a policy.
It was actually a procedure. Wellthe procedure wasn't followed, right, So

(28:55):
so for some time sheets that yousaid, I, you know, I
should have kept up with all ofthem, you know, for hundreds employees,
thousands of kids and all the otherthings going on that I should get
two weeks compared to all the otherthings that I know that have occurred,
I should get two weeks. Andso, you know, it was just
really disappointing. I feel singled out. Oh gosh, yes, why because

(29:18):
not saying why did you feel thatway? But what's the basis of you
were singled out? Because it doesn'tmake sense compared to others. So like,
if you're a parent at school,right, if your kid got into
a fight and I gave your kidten days and another kid got in a
fight they only got three days,would you think something was different? Okay,

(29:40):
So that's the basic premise, rightwhen you look at the level of
things, and trust me, youknow, I'm one of those that they
knew I was a knucklebar to dealwith, which is why they had to
go out and get a private attorney, right, because I did. I
pulled up every administrator, five reprimandyou know, whatever trouble that was out

(30:00):
there, and it was some prettyserious stuff. No one and I mean
no one had more than three dayslike suspend it. And there was others
who did. They just got acoaching memot, you know, And so
it just didn't make sense. Iknow from that first day when we had
talked, he didn't talk to meas a principal. He talked to me
as somebody who is potentially an opponent. Right, because when you say to

(30:23):
me, this is going to bein the papers, this is going to
be in the papers. Do youthink this goes back to the conversation where
you announced that you were going toat some point run for superintendent. Then
sure, okay, he knew,and he can he can deny he didn't,
but I'll give you another true story, and you feel free to talk
to principals who are at the meeting. So in twenty nineteen, right,

(30:44):
so this is this is before COVID. This is like, you know,
he we had a principal's meeting,and usually it's our Christmas principal meeting and
we have our formal principals come back, and at this meeting, the superintendent
announced that he was running for reelection. Okay, He turns to me and
he says, you know, Ifeel like I've got some things left to

(31:06):
do. I'm gonna run for supertender. Now, I'll just tell you,
on the surface, that's totally inappropriate. You should never be mentioning politics
at a business meeting with the taxpayers. But all right, so let's set
that aside. He turns to meand he says, well, Joe,
you and Scotty and Scotty would beScotty Crow, who's the principal at gil

(31:26):
Chris former sistant superintendent Scott. Hesays, now, Joe, you and
Scotty, y'all wait to turn.If y'all let me get through this next
term, y'all can run next time. And this is in twenty nineteen.
Now, I will just tell youI kept a straight face because I know
how to do that, right.It was a very uncomfortable air in the

(31:49):
room because I just felt like thatwas totally inappropriate. That is something if
you want to discussed that with me, you could have discussed that with me
privately. Now, I still reallywouldn't wanted to have done that because I
just didn't think it really was thatappropriate. I mean, to me,
you have every right to make youknow, to run for reelection, that's
that's the right you have. Butto do it in such a public form
like that, you know, likewaiting to turn, like I'm not here

(32:13):
to go after you, you knowwhat I mean. Like, but I
can tell you this. I hada bunch of people who reached out to
him and said, are you okay? Do you feel like you know targeted
or And I said, I don'tknow. Like what I'm gonna do is
I'm gonna go back to work.I'm gonna do my job. I'm gonna
be dedicated to my kids, mystaff, my parents, the community,

(32:34):
That's that's what I'm gonna Scottie talkabout it. Oh yeah, I mean
did he walk away without putting wordsin his mouth, but generally did he
walk away with the same kind offeeling you did? Yeah? It was
uneasy. Okay, you know,I you know, I'll just say this.
Probably he probably processes differently, butI and I can just tell you

(32:54):
in Scotty's case, he wasn't interestedafter watching it up close, you know,
he he was out there with misterPonds. He really had no desires.
You know. The desires are reallyon my side of our friendship.
I mean, because he and ourfriends and I mean, and I don't
want to say I'm speaking for him, I can just least say on the
surface, it was just uneasy tohear that. I mean, it was

(33:16):
just totally inappropriate. Besides the followingmetrics, and just an aspirational desire that
you've always held to serve as assuperintendent. In other words, in your
mind at this stage of your career, it's the next logical step. What

(33:37):
are the other issues that you thinkare most important that are fueling your decision
to make this run for superintendent.So, I mean, if you look
at course I was talking about thethistion, but just the academic performance of
all of our schools. Sure,So one of the things that we You
know, when a new family movesto Tallahassee, you want them to be

(33:59):
able to say, say, no, matter where you buy a house,
you should be able to count onthe school that you have in your local
community. Right. But I willtell you this, when a family buys
a house, there's two things thatthey look at pretty quickly. If you
talk to most people who bought ahouse, look at the crime rate and
what's the local schools? Yep,you can best believe those two things on

(34:20):
there, right. I mean Ieven tell my staff the way we perform,
the local residents are counting on usbecause we're helping them out in a
sense. Right, we drive theirhome prices. Right, this becomes a
more attractive place to be, andso then they become invested how we perform,
making sure we're communicating with them.So you've got, you know,
the academic performers that I want everywhereI want. You know, you can

(34:45):
have little pockets, but you knowI want all sides of town. I
mean, if you just have conversationswith folks they'll say certain sides of town.
Hey, you know, people usuallylike those schools more than others.
But you should have that feeling allover town, you know. And that's
my thing. And as I saythat, that is not saying that I
like even the area of town whereI serve. I just want to neglect

(35:06):
that side. It's like, no, continue to perform, but let's get
the other areas to up their performanceas well. Right, we have the
ability to do it, and itis making sure that we also support our
leaders and support our teachers. Alsounderstand that our teachers and leaders are not
only is it different as far asexperiences that they had, the people that

(35:27):
they're serving are different than years before. So it used to be when teachers
got hired, most of them cameout of the College of Education right from
Florida State FAMU Flagler. Most ofour teachers now come outside the world of
education into education. So it usedto be when you did a mentorship program
or we work with you as anew teacher, you got mentor for a

(35:49):
year. Right, we still havethat in place. That's not really right
if you know they're not coming outof a college education program. We really
need to be mentoring them from threeto five years. Why because you got
to building that time they would havehad in college while they're growing up with
you in the school. And thatjust means you have to think differently.
Right if the people coming in,Like so even before we talk about kids,

(36:13):
if the people I'm working with aredifferently, I have to respond differently.
Right. That means just like youdid a great job, you made
me explain a term that other peoplelistening to us may not have known.
Right, you know, break itdown because you know in education we can
talk from educational needs and have peoplelost in baseball, yes, right,
And so that also happens with newemployees who come in. They don't have
all the tools in their tool beltthat others who came in from the college

(36:37):
of Education have. So you gotto build them up. You still believe
in them, just know you haveto work with them differently, right,
So you tell your mentor to youinstead of working them over the year,
you're going to need to work withthem three to five to get them to
the same point. But you knowit's for our students. I need that
teacher to build up. And thenwe also have to recognize the students are

(36:57):
different. Just like you and Italked about social media, right, we
also talk about like just the connectivityis different. There's the you know,
what am I going to do afterhigh school? Can I make it into
college? Can I get into oneof the trades. There's a lot of
pressures on these kids that even tosome degree years ago, we didn't face.
And so how do we help themnavigate that? Like? They have

(37:19):
to be good people, you know, right, I mean, because that's
the first thing you need to hire. You need to hire good people who
actually like kids. Right. Kidscan get on your nerves, but you've
got to still like them. LikeI tell, I tell all my students,
I said, I love y'all.Some of y'all may get on my
last nerves, but I love y'all, you know. And that's the real
thing. I mean, that's somethingI learn from my mom. She says,
I love you, but I don'tlike you. You know, you've

(37:39):
taken a page out of my book. I mean, that's how God views
us. Yes, that's all.Yes, loves us all the time,
but he does not like us allthe time. Absolutely. I love my
children all the time, but Idon't like them all the time. And
that's that's what you're describing, andit is. And so you have to
have that mindset in place, andyou have to understand that kids are going

(38:00):
to have moments less than what youhaven't expected for them. They're going to
fail if they were let them.We need to let them pay the consequences
of making poor choices, yes,with their use of time or whatever it
might be. Yes, But thatnow drags me to parents. I made

(38:22):
a pitch to the school board whenJackie Pons was superintendent. You might not
know this, but I ran aprivate school for several years, and and
in that I learned some things.You talk about a learning opening, My
learning curve totally different because you atleast were educated in it. I was
assigned and one of the things Ilearned is that in private schools at that

(38:47):
time, you didn't have to takeevery student. So we were desperate.
We kind of had to take everystudent. But I learned things. And
one of the things I learned isthat parents are essential to the success or
failure of a student. And Ilearned that if you don't make parents accountable,

(39:14):
and I see a couple of issuesconnected that are plaguing not just Leon
county schools, but every school absolutely, And it's a connectivity between what students
are doing or not doing. Assaultinga teacher, yes, belittling, bad
mouthing, using profanity. The namelist goes on and on, teacher turnover.

(39:35):
So we're right there talking to youover So I want you to address
that, But then I also wantyou to address the nexus that exists between
that and kind of the administrative turnstilethat exists where we're not making parents come
down and deal with their kid.We're sending the kid back to the teacher
that just sent them out because they'reon their last nerve and they're disrupting the

(39:55):
classroom, but we're not inconveniencing theparents. I hear the arguments, Joe,
and you can tell me if they'relegitimate or not. The arguments are,
well, not all of them haveparents at home. Okay, well
they got a guardian, I gotsomebody, yep. So first of all,

(40:15):
am I am I addressing something that'sreal? Yes, I think I
am. You are, And thatit doesn't mean we're talking bad about parents.
I mean, like, well,I think we are. I think
you said it before, and it'sthe part that needs to be highlighted.
Parents are essential, right, sothe garden is essential. So that means
you have to do one. There'stwo things that have to happen. Right.

(40:37):
You absolutely have to make them accountable. Right. If you talk to
the parents out of childs they tellyou, they probably will say, man,
he runs a pretty tight ship,right, but that is part of
your success. Well, I thinkso too, right, And that means
sometimes I'm going to make a decision. You probably don't like it, but
but it's also in the student's bestinterest that that decision was made. But
we can also ask you, yeah, that decision. Is it not well

(41:00):
received because it inconveniences mom or dad? Oh? Always, I mean at
least in my Yeah, that's areflection of where we are in the culture
right now. And I will tellyou this goes into the second part that
educational leaders have to do is youhave to build capacity. Mean, so
think about it like this. You'rea sports person, right, yep.

(41:21):
Is a coach's best year when theytook a team undefeated and they had the
best players and they blew everybody out? Or was it the team that they
got into the playoffs who should havebeen a team that was drafted first,
but they got them into the playoffs. Now, maybe they didn't win the
Super Bowl, but they got himinto the playoffs. I would argue that's
the coach's best coaching year. Right. So as a leader, besides making

(41:44):
parents accountable, you also have tobuild their capacity to be parents. So
think about it like this. Parentsdon't come with a training book. Now
as educator, I really do havebooks that I had to read. Now,
I've got a lot of educators whocome in they've not had a whole
lot of books. It's my responsibilityto give than the knowledge to help them
long. But I got to alsodo that with a lot of the parents.
So we end up having to coachup parents. Right to say,

(42:07):
if you're feeling like your kid isnever going to talk to you again because
you agree with this, let's saypunishment consequence that went to your kid,
they're going to be back that theirconditioned, that food and that money that
they need from you, they're goingto be back. Right. But it's
also saying if you don't get someaccountability from them, the correctional system is

(42:28):
waiting for them. They're like themore right they They're open twenty four hours
a day, seven days a week, and I got to tell you the
truth about what's out there. Likeif you look in high school, you're
going to get a job, You'regoing to drive a car. Meantimes you're
gonna be maybe left at the houseby yourself. There are responsibilities that you're
going to have that are pretty large, right, even healthcare decision. Right,

(42:50):
you go to this by yourself.I mean usually after seventeen or after
sixteen, when you turn seventeen.So you've got things responsibilities that are put
into your hands. If we don'ttell you the truth about a behavior that
needs to change, that needs tobe different, and understanding that your life,
that future life that you want bestfor your kid will not be better
if they don't change the road thatthey're on, it will not. And

(43:14):
sometimes you'll have parents like they actuallycome to us and they'll say, I
don't want my kid to be upsetat me. You know, I don't
know how to do it. Soa lot of times we're there and I'm
talking about ad child's we have tosometimes coach up parents. When I was
at Spring with that's a lot oftimes I had to do single parents,
right. I would sit down withsingle parents and this is you know,
for the listeners out there, Iwould sit down with single parents and I

(43:37):
will say, if you do mea favor, if you died today,
can you give me the top fivepeople you would leave your kids with?
And they would write it down andthen I would say, now I've got
your emergency contact lists. If thenames you just wrote down on the paper
don't match the ones on the emergencycontact list, we have a problem.
Because you only would leave your kidswith the people you believe in who will

(43:58):
take care of your children and yourass absence, so which means they need
to also be the people that wesee on the mergy contact I understand that
you are single and you may haveto work two three jobs in a day
to make ends meet, which meansyou're not individually gonna have time that you
give to your kid. But yougot a team, you got a network.
Even a two parent household has networks, right, You got friends,
you got grandparents who help out withthe picking the kids up, taking them

(44:22):
to appointments. So when you're asingle parent, you just have less of
it, right, You don't havethat next partner right there. But as
a leader, I should help buildyour capacity of what your team looks like
to take care of your kid,right, because you have to, You
absolutly have to hold them accountable.You and how we agree on that you
do something wrong, you gotta beheld accountable before it Well, the teachers

(44:43):
have to be ultimately in charge oftheir classroom, correct, and that hasn't
been the case generally for two decadesit So you know what it is is
that you know everybody words. Ifsomebody complains on me, I'm not going
to get in trouble. So youknow, I would say you what I
always tell parents when they send mea complaint. I said you, and
I'm telling you as the parent,you and I are the same on this,

(45:06):
which is we weren't there. Isaid, I've been in this long
enough to say that there's usually morethan two sides to a story. All
Right, we're gonna investigate because youknow, a lot of times when you
call in, they were like theywant you to believe everything that they're saying
immediately, and it's not like I'mjust respecting you. But everybody could be
telling the truth. And that stilldoesn't mean we have the whole story,
right. There may be parts thatwere missing, but it's also letting them

(45:28):
know that we got to look intoit. I do that first of all.
My teachers trust that right because itdidn't mean not threw them under the
bus. It also didn't tell theparent that they're a liar. Right,
you shouldn't do either. Give meeverything you got and then let me look
into it. And I'm gonna giveyou my honest answer when all this is
over. Now, you may notlike it, and you're welcome to question

(45:49):
any of it. But if youknow, just like in the case of
like you was talking about a kid, if your kid, if I got
seven kids in the same class whenthey said that your kid cussed the teacher
out and then did it again,Yeah, there's a consequence for that because
their authority can never be questioned.Matter of fact, I've been in parent
conferences before where the student has disrespectedthe parent. Now you know me,
I'm you're a big dude. I'ma big dude. I don't have to

(46:12):
stand up, but I certainly raisemy voice a little bit and I say,
you are absolutely respect your parents.While they hear I tell them said,
look, when y'all get home,that's one thing, But while you're
here at school, every adult's gonnabe respected. I don't care if they're
a custodian or they're the principal.They're gonna be respected. And the kids
will tell you. That's one ofthe things I talked to him about,
like do not disrespect adults not.I also say that doesn't mean I should
be going out disrespecting kids, likesometimes first not we have adults who may

(46:35):
trigger kid or they said something toinstigated with them. That's not right,
and I will tell you my staff, I get on their case, but
also make it clear to the kidsa child stays in the child's place.
Well, you can't lead where youdon't go correct. And if leaders aren't
leading, then there's going to bea constable And you have to have the
tough conversations. I mean, Ilisten, you know, I've heard everything.

(46:57):
You know. You know they comein even with an attorney, right,
you know, I go, hey, you know, you know what
school I'm at. I'm used toseeing an attorney like that. You know,
doesn't doesn't scare us off, youknow, And you know, and
I said, and of course wecan get into long eye tribes on email
and all that. You know,I always just remind them, I said,
Look, emails and even phone callsare kind of cold until we see

(47:20):
each other in person that you cansee like my inflections and everything that goes
along with what I'm saying. It'shard you get the total grasp of everything
I'm trying to communicate. But letme throw something at you based on what
we were just talking about. Yes, because the he said, teacher,
she said, teacher student argument isonly going to ramp up with where we're

(47:42):
going right now. And by thatI mean we now have questions of what's
being taught in classrooms. Is curriculumbeing adhered to COVID opened up a can
of worms. Sure, because yougot the chance to view and every every
school district on the planet it hasbeen has been victim by the oversea right
now. I have advocated, andI have done so on multiple occasions with

(48:07):
the Commissioner of Education for the Stateof Florida as well as lawmakers, and
I will argue this from my perspectiveuntil we both run out of breath.
One of the solutions to a lotof problems today in the classroom, whether
it's discipline, instruction, and eliminatingjust headaches, is putting cameras in the

(48:28):
classroom, not live streaming, notbecause that violates all kinds of privacy guide
lives, but settling the debate onwhat was said and what was taught,
and whether the student was out ofline or it's just that teacher that has
a grudge. I think that's wherewe need to go, much like what
we did with law enforcement. It'san arbiter. It may not give you

(48:52):
the perfect picture, but if therewas an issue, would you, as
a principal or ultimately as a supertendative education wouldn't it be refreshing to be
able to say, well, let'slook at what happened that day and to
have it on tape. So asfar as the review, always having a

(49:12):
tape is a better then, youknow, because you can have eyewitness accounts
and sometimes everybody's memory is their ownright and every Yeah, so the the
video doesn't have a bias. Itjust shows you what it shows you,
a right, I think that youknow. The part that I wrestled with
even when we were doing the hybridlearning, uh, is the ability to

(49:37):
see you know, people's faces,you know the name, image and likeness,
right, But this is in theclassroom, right, and you're talking
about people's kids, and you know, there's everything. Of course, you
deal with everything from custody battles topeople who sometimes a witness protection. I
mean, there's there's there are somebut it was legally protected and only used

(50:00):
by the administrator and appropriate staff.You know, well, of course,
you know you would have to havesome discussions with the teachers, right,
I think you know, the teachersunion wouldn't support it because they want a
more radicalized agenda in the classrooms.I mean, I think so the you
know, part of the issues areI mean like you're going to have some

(50:22):
parents who actually are a little concernedabout that. And that's what I was
saying, there's just privacy issues.And then you have your kids who aren't
protecting classes like you're students who arefive oh four or who are ec And
you know, if you've got thisvideo platform that you have, can it
be hacked? Can it be usednow? And and and let me just

(50:44):
say this, you already have itwith the phones in the pockets of the
kids, right, they could takeit at any moment and film things that
happen in class that already happens,and we have it in close circuit broadcasting,
and we have it with police aswe say right now, for that
body camera can't be hacked, right, is the only difference is is we're
talking about minors in the classroom,right because because in a certain sense that

(51:06):
teachers, by happenstance, they haveless. I mean, the students are
to protected folks in there. Soyou know, only the only hesitation I
have is on the legal front.You know, you know I would say,
yeah, well, to solve alot of issues, I would say
there are parts of us that wealready do that because if you look at
school buses, we already have camerason school buses. Correct. I think

(51:30):
you know what I will tell youis this right. I think it is
the way that something is brought forward. How it's how it's you know,
introduced. What are the measures inplace? Right? Because because even if
you're asking cops, if you thinkabout the cameras right at first, I
mean, many of them think it'sso gotcha, like this is you're you're

(51:52):
preventing me from doing my job atthe best that I can do it because
now I have to become robotic andI'm thinking about everything. But you know,
the leader has to come in andsay, if you just do what
you always have done, you shouldn'tget in trouble. Right, So there's
that discussion, but kind of meetingthat and that's kind of what the job

(52:15):
requires. Like let's just say,I mean because easily the legislator can make
that a law. I mean,they could just take the discussion out and
by by next fall they could saythis is so right. I will just
tell you, Like one of thethings that I do is I work with
my staff. I say, ifyou just follow these protocols, you're gonna
be just fine. Right. Whenwe had when we started, we changed

(52:37):
some of the evaluation methods. Thisis going back to twenty eleven, twenty
ten, twenty eleven. Here inthe state of Florida, teachers were really
concerned. Right, they had thesedifferent measures because we used to have these
old forms and it was like carboncopy and that was the way we kind
of evaluated the teachers. And thenwe went to a more of electronic form.
Right, I can go in therewith an iPad. I could just
hit all these things as I wasobserving them with the kids. Right,

(52:59):
And I tell you what I didwith my staff. One day, one
of my assistant principals. She wasa twirler growing up. She's just twirling
up a time. She doesn't realizeshe's being video right, and what happens
is soon she saw that she wasbeing videotaped, she lost her way.
And I said, that's really thesystem. I said, guys, if
you just do what you do,you're gonna be just fine. Like I

(53:21):
should be having it. There shouldbe a different kind of conversation with you
if you if you think at theend of the year we may release you,
right, We've already had conversations upuntil that, like I'm actually talking
to you saying, hey, thishas got to improve, or when it
comes to the first of May,I'm going to have to release you,
okay, because outside of that,you should be doing the teaching. We
should be working on the craft,right, This shouldn't be a gotcha thing,

(53:44):
And so that will have and partof this will also have to be,
you know, the way the parentscome in, and like there's a
lot of discussion that has to goalong with that. I mean, I
actually hear that where you say,hey, look, that can help resolve
some of the problems. I wouldthink it would eliminate a lot of headaches
for an administrator, but it couldcause you some more because if parents are

(54:06):
looking in, they may say,well, and I'll just give you one.
I mean, now, maybe somebodylooks at us a little bit frivolous,
but to somebody is very real.So let's say teachers moving around a
classroom, but they're on the rightside of the classroom seventy five percent of
the time, and it was onthe left side class from twenty five percent
of the time, and maybe thekid on that twenty five percent of the
time they're struggling. Hey, you'resupposed to be over there. Now here

(54:27):
comes the email. Well, hey, when I reviewed the tape, this
is what I saw. So that'swhy I said, a lot of the
logistics have to be worked out right. And I would answer that by saying,
in my idea, it's only reviewedwhen it's not available to parents.
It's only available if there's an issue. So then I would say that as
an administrator, then you say,hey, I've noticed your teaching and you're

(54:50):
working one side of the classroom.Make sure you work well. So you
would say, then, is thatthey have to put a question and it
probably has to meet a standard correct, right before we even knew it.
Right, can't just be for somethinggeneral not available to look at. It's
only there to solve an issue.So for you know, for you the
pitch that you're making, right,I'm actually advising you here. You would
say in matters of student incidents orstudent the teacher incidents, or just flat

(55:15):
teacher incident, it would only beused in those matters. And then you
may have a protocol before you know, say exactly in school, and then
it's reviewed and then as needed peopleare called in. And I would tell
you know, now, if youwere talking to the teacher, they was
like, well, do we havesomebody that's looking at it now? I
will tell you if you if we'rebeing transparent right and talking with them,

(55:37):
like you would say, well,there's going to be somebody from one of
their representatives will be one of thepeople who will help review it, you
know what I mean. So likebecause when you're when you're more transparent,
people, you know, people fearwhat they don't know. Right, if
I don't know you, well,like, well you could be somebody that
can harm me, or you couldbe somebody uh you know, uh who

(55:59):
will do So people fear what theyknow if they don't want you to know
what they know. You know whatI'm saying. I just wanted to throw
that by you. Yeah, yeah, great question. One of the things
I want to do in the timeremaining shoe is I want to kind of
hit a few topics. Sure,we've touched on it, just sort of

(56:20):
in ancillary ways here of late.And that is just teacher turnover. Is
that an issue that can be addressedbest by the state and funding and like
you know, the Governor's investing evenmore money now, I think it's another
two hundred million in teacher salaries movingforward. Or is it best addressed locally

(56:40):
by the district. So I'm goingto tell you it's always local. And
it is no disrespect to the Governor's, no dispect to the president any other
leaders out there. My relationship withthose teachers, or my relationship inside of
that district with a team, yourstaff, whoever, that's a daily one,

(57:04):
right. You set the tone.Like even in the if somebody grew
up poor, they could say Istill had a wonderful childhood, right because
of what they had inside that house. You can be rich and it is
a terrible house, right, Sothe money plays a part as far as
your ability to take care of yourfamily. All right, So you know,

(57:28):
we know that it makes teaching moreattracted. The more money you can
make in the industry, the moreattractive it becomes, right better, I
mean and and and and you knowyour numbers guy, your economics guy.
Listen. We had the recession goingon, man, teaching was hot.
I mean, we had teachers comingout, and you know, people wanted
to be teachers because I had aguarantee the salary and you had benefits,

(57:52):
right, and we knew what wouldhappen once the economy got somewhat better.
And you know, remember Florida wewent it was two thousand and seven,
our bubble bust before everybody else.Yep. But we also recover before everybody
else. And so we started tosee the ranks leave, right because that
same talent that we had, themarket wants them back. Market caught up

(58:13):
and passed, yes, very much. Right. So people will stay based
upon how they feel. Like youguys here, you've got a team,
they stay because how they feel.If you superintendent impact that with so many
schools, Here's what I will say, it's the relationship, it's your decisions.

(58:35):
And it's the way you make yourdecisions. So like people. Number
one, they have to feel likethe decisions that you make had their best
interest in mind and that you canexplain it and if they have a if
they want to confront it, thatyou will speak to them in a manner
that they can understand and that theycan trust. Okay, But secondly,

(58:55):
how do you treat the leaders whoare working with the teachers. If your
treatment of the leaders is not ata certain point, guess what if you're
doing things, Let's say like ifI scream at my aps, guess what
my AP's do to the teachers?They scream at them. Guess what the
teachers do. They scream at thekids. Guess what the kids do?

(59:16):
They go home scream their parents.Not to say it may be sound coming
the other way, but we gotto stop the cycle on our side.
And so if they don't feel value, and value is not always money.
It's not because sometimes people have leftand they did not make more money.
Right, they have to feel liketheir value, they can help make decisions,

(59:37):
they have input. This is aplace where they can ascend. Right.
One of the things sometimes teachers arelooking for is they looking for teacher
leadership positions. Your wife was ateacher, but she was a teacher leader,
right, she got a chance tohelp the other teachers on campus.
Veteran teachers want those opportunities, andso you have to be able to give
them opportunities. Everybody's not looking tobecome an administrator, right because that's a

(59:59):
whole different ass. But they dowant to become leaders. They do want
to have ways of their influence inthe campus. Like I know I can
make this place better. My voicegives it that way, my work gives
that, and so teacher turnover isa lot of those things. Now.
Of course, as I said,money and benefits are they have a role

(01:00:22):
in that, but the way peoplefeel, the way their value just a
small thing. So like right now, if you're a first year teacher,
people who've been working for ten yearsshould not make the same money, and
it shouldn't even be close. That'sa huge problem the state has to address
and they do be interested if thattwo hundred million is going to address it.

(01:00:43):
Well, but you also have tolook at your budget, right,
so think about it. Your budgetis your priority. I mean, listen,
we would love to pay for everything, take care of everybody, but
you can't. I mean, thegovernor does that you I mean, listen,
I tell folks all the time Isaid, he really, on a
given level, probably makes more Republicansmad than he does Democrats because you know

(01:01:07):
he got that lineup. He willtake that sucker right out. I mean,
and he has not shied away.Right. You can find a different
district in somebody who's been mad.But again, the budget is priorities right
so here locally, our superintendent,school board, they've made priorities about what
they think the pace should be.Now, to me, I think we

(01:01:27):
needed to do more because I wantto attract more talent. You know,
I will tell you this man we'retalking about. You know, I'm at
a national rank high school. Intwenty twelve when we had an English teacher
opening, I can tell you weeasily had almost two hundred applicants. Right
now, if we get three,I'm so happy. Now that also can

(01:01:52):
be just where the marketing things are. But it's tough to be a teacher,
yes, I mean, and Ithink and also we're we're not honest
with our young We're not we're noteven honest with our parents about how hard
it is to be that. Andthat's why I say you actually have to
coach up parents. I tell parentsall the time, I say, so,

(01:02:13):
how you say something on an email, Well, actually determine how you
get an answer back. Same thingwith a teacher when they responded to a
parent. I need to get somethingfrom a parent. Listen, if you
put it in bold, you putit in our talents, you put it
in red, it already looks likeyou're shouting. Right, put it in
plane terms, right, level headed. And I said, and when you
can't go to a phone call,right, you can't do a thousand means,

(01:02:36):
but man, you can do youcan do three four minute phone calls.
It just goes a lot further.So on a lot of that is
the way that we're communicating, theway we recruiting students, I'm sorry,
students who become teachers. How wecultivate them when they come into the to
the district, equipping them to besuccessful? Yes, And I will tell
you what is talk about essential.The people you choose to work with.

(01:02:59):
Those teachers have to be above reproach. They have to be like if they're
the people who are toxic, orthis place is never going to get well.
Those young teachers. They leave underfive years, they're gone. What
you got to do is you gotto find that people say, I have
joy in this, even if I'mnot being paid what I thought I should
get. There's such enjoyment that Iget right talking about people that viewed as

(01:03:22):
a calling. Yes, you know, like where the intrinsic really overwhelms the
extrinsic, right, I mean,like, and that's what it is,
is calling. It's a ministry,right, like you you know the difference
that you making kids, I mean, and you know it's when you go
to graduation. Rights, it's theculminating event, you know, a senior

(01:03:45):
year. And like this past yearI got the most hugs I ever got
on stage, and you know,and I just got a relative count,
you know, just from past years. But that's great, man, because
you know, I'll tell everybody Isaid, look, you got the you
got the magnum, a lot ofassuming cum laude cum lades. But man,
some of them HUDs are from them, thank you. Lawd is right.
These are kids that they didn't havethe best GPAs you know, they

(01:04:09):
may have gotten arrested while they weregoing through school. They had some trying
times. I mean their parents wereready to throw them out, but they
made it. And a lot oftimes I said, that's just part of
the story, right, Your wholefew is not defined now, this is
just a part of it. Butlike I just feel blessed and I'm almost
here for you on this journey.And hopefully we gave you a good time

(01:04:30):
here, We gave you a placefor you to help build yourself up.
You know, it's just it's justwonderful because it's it's a reminder that we,
in a small part, helped shapethese young people. And so that
I take seriously as far as,like, you know, the things that
we need to improvise, the thingsthat we need to do better, the
things we need to ask of ourselves. You know, when we do surveys,

(01:04:55):
we only do surveys about the principalsand the teachers. You know,
if you know, like the oldIBM standards, you do a survey on
everybody. How is the district servingyou? How's the support staff so serving
you? How's everything bus drivers?How we all serving you? Right?
And that doesn't mean like you're goingto get you know, understand that you

(01:05:15):
may hear loudest from the people whoare most upset, but you still should
hear them. It's just like whenthe school district recently turned off the comments
on their social media page. Youshould never turn off the comments, even
if now, unless somebody's threatening,they're doing harm, or they're gonna have
to get right, you block them. But people should have the right,
you know. It's just like Imean, I a fown. I don't

(01:05:36):
like that decision you're getting on mylast nerve. That's okay, but as
you know, I told you offair, your job. Really, when
you're in a calling with education,you got to serve those who even hate
you. Well. The reality is, and I encourage my listeners on the
radio program Joe that you know,at this moment, I have no children
in the school district. I havegrandchildren that will be in the school district.

(01:05:59):
But it does matter. I paymy taxes. Yes, I have
to say yes, and I willuse my three minutes and I will use
the opportunities that I have to sharemy views on education, on whatever the
issues are. I don't think there'sa more you know, I've watched so
advocate of teachers than me. I'vewatched you, I've watched you up at
the school board meeting. You know, cry my best. You know it's

(01:06:23):
not usually warmly received, and that'sokay, but but it it it kind
of dovetails to something else, andit is this your principal right now you're
serving as a principal. There's aview that perhaps principles are I think terminology
like this has been used from thecurrent superintendent sort of mayors of their own

(01:06:46):
communities. In your view, areprinciples given too much autonomy to little autonomy?
Or it's kind of where it needsto be. So the easiest answer
it depends. So it's just likeyour teachers. So if I've got a
new teacher, I got to beviewing them a lot. I gotta be.

(01:07:08):
You actually have to micro manage thema little bit more, right because
they're new, recent retire I'm justgonna say her name and for folks out
that they know her. I hada wonderful lady, Pat Faaling. Pat
Faaling retired at the age of seventyeight. I did not have the babysit.
Pat Faaling. Okay, she's gotclothing older than I am, but
she could teach. She knew it. If I spent the same time with

(01:07:31):
her that I did with a newteacher, that's actually wasting time. And
that's not to say you still don'tgo in there and you don't check and
you don't make sure, but I'mgoing to spend more time with those new
ones. So this goes back tothe development I was talking about. So
when you have a new principle,you got to make sure that their skills
are at a point that they canserve that community. If there are adjustments

(01:07:53):
that need to be made, likehow you talk with the staff, how
you do your staffing on you onyour campus, how do you work out
the relationships you know, what ifyou go for example, if you go
to uh, let's just say,there's a difference if you go to a
staff that has a lot of youngteachers versus the staff that has a lot

(01:08:15):
of veteran teachers. You have tohave a different mindset. They're gonna come
at you differently. New teachers don'tknow what they don't know yet, they
still got to figure out what theydon't know and they need help with So
you got to have a plan laidout. So if you are sending a
new principle into a situation where evenyoung teachers, we got to be there
to help and say, hey,you got to have some processes in place

(01:08:36):
and we need to help you withthat. Right, as they become a
veteran, you can give more autonomy. So it's the same thing you would
do with teachers, your leaders.It's no different if you if you're doing
everything. Let me let me justuse the example of the tornado as a
recent example. Okay, every dayweather situations, I'm responsible on the ground.

(01:09:00):
I'll tell you this. If therewas a tornado that popped up on
Charles High School, I'm not callingthe district. That's not out of disrespect.
I'm telling everybody on my campus tolock down. I don't have to
call you like I'm taking care ofthe business right there. Now, you
know, when you're first to principle, you may be a little bit more
nervous. So part of your trainingwould be like that summer going over those

(01:09:21):
scenarios. Right. So, becauseI always tell people it's like vicarious learning.
You learn through other people's experience sothat when it comes to you,
don't draw on your own conclusions,draw on the ones that they did and
then input them. Right. Butwhat happens is when you have a weather
situation, we just take care ofit. What happened in like what the

(01:09:42):
tornado was, the district jumped inand they said, hey, we're just
going to close schools down. NowI'm going to tell you my school is
a Level five shelter. We're ahurricane show. Every time there's a hurricane
that comes up, we get activated. And you're looking at the guy who
runs the team for Red Cross righthere right. My family not see me
when the storm. I'm up thereat the school right, And that's okay.

(01:10:03):
I accept that as being the principal. And that's a service, an
additional service that I give to thedistrict. But I gladly serve in that
capacity because we should do that.And I'm sitting here going you're making us
have our kids leave and go outinto terrible weather because we were making a
decision for everybody instead of locally atthe school. And whether it's something we
did with every day, so whetheryou are at whether you're talking about Bond

(01:10:28):
Elementary, whether you're talking about RawMiddle School, where you're talking about Child's
high school, we handle it ourselves. You know, we look at now
we may call them for a reference, you know, say hey, we
know the storm is like the tornadoesmaybe three miles out. You know,
should we stay in place? Youknow, we can ask for advisement,
but they're trusting us. They haveto. You have to trust it.

(01:10:50):
Like sometimes you know, you havethose snap tornadoes, it just jumps on
you. You immediately get on theall call you to everybody. Hey,
tornado right now, everybody, getdown right. I don't have time to
call that. But you know,but when we did, when we made
this like snap judgment, it washaphazard, right, And so just busses

(01:11:12):
have even been on the roads giventhe weather that we knew was coming.
So we didn't know a tornado necessarilywas coming, but we knew severe weather
was coming, severe enough that wehistorically have pulled buses from the roads.
So here's a couple of things,right, so just you know, this
is not to trash anybody. Thisis just as the statement is. Okay,
a couple of weeks before we didthe delayed start, okay, so

(01:11:34):
we had already done it, andI think everybody was okay. I mean,
listen, parents are gonna be upset. It's inconvenience, right, so
you're gonna have that. But butI will tell you this, and I
say this, even when we're talkingabout the superintendent. We're runing against each
other. Never apologize for safety ever, Exactly. I tell folks that talk
about me bad and I'll welcome it. Matter of fact, I'll put it
on like a badge. The daybefore, we had already talked about it,

(01:11:58):
and it was told to us thatthe storm was going to be showing
up between three to six. Okay, so just keep that in mind in
the morning, in the morning.Sorry, yeah, I gotta get that
part. The night before we hadour night of celebration. That's where the
teacher of the year, a nonstructionalperson and you're kind of educator on your
campus of the year are all gettingrecognized. I know there was a couple

(01:12:19):
of folks that I kind of broughtit up with. You know, what
are we going to do? Becauseat about nine o'clock, that same National
Weather Service that got blamed for nottelling us about it, said that the
storm was slowing. Now you've beenon radio, y'all part of the emergency
network team, all right, soyou got a responsibility. I know that
because I'm I'm part of it too. As a school, we're part of

(01:12:40):
it, absolutely, right, theycan come grab you any time and say,
hey, we need to get thismessage out. Okay, So understanding
that, the National Weather Service saidlater on in the evening some you know,
around nine o'clock somewhere at that time, that the storm was going too
slow. Now I'm not a meteorologist, but if they say three to six

(01:13:00):
and it's slowing, that means it'snow coming into the time that we'll ride
to school now, right, buswindows already at six right, if you're
now, let's just say it's ahalf an hour delayed. My first students
a getting dropped off at six thirty, We're already in it. So for
us, we were already sheltering inplace on campus already. Okay, I

(01:13:25):
can tell you this, Rob Nukletola, it's got a kid at my school.
Rob Neuctota at five o'clock in themorning said get off the road.
We still had the ability to goahead and cancel things, and I said
take the hit. I would Ipromise you pressing I would have still up
there and said he did the rightthing. You just cancel it or say

(01:13:46):
we'll delay it whatever. Don't beout on the roads, which was also
a dangerous thing for our bus drivers, right, So the drivers are in
danger, even the other cars thatare out there. Right, We usually
we have a rule thirty five milesan hour. You're not supposed to have
those busses on the road. That'stoo dangerous. The wind is too high.
Even as heavy as a bus isabove thirty five, the wind can

(01:14:06):
topple. Yes, yes, alot of yes, it's top heavy,
right, and and so you know, so that's why I said, I
just want to kind of give thefacts. It became even more frustrating,
right, So some of my parentsout there, they know this. So
we were actually doing AP testing,okay, And I made the argument,

(01:14:28):
hey, let our kids finish theirtest. And they're more than halfway done
because if we cancel, like alot of our kids, they had to
come back after graduation to finish upAP test that got canceled. They said,
no, everybody's got to go.And I said, but right,
you know, but right now theweather is like where we were, it
was bad on the south end first, but in the north end it became
worse afterwards, right, And I'mlike, why would I send them out

(01:14:50):
now? This is a level fiveshelter. That's not we do that even
with lunch sometimes like the weather's toobad, we said, hey, we're
going to hold you guys off,and we have kids like, well,
I got to get to work.Have you lawyer called me? Your kids
will tell you. I'll tell themthat had them call me because I cannot
send you out. I'm responsible foryou if I put you on that Like
risk management is going to come andsay, we're probably getting ready to move

(01:15:12):
you out of school because you letthese kids go doing the weather emergency.
Right, So we take that veryseriously. I mean, like, first
of all, we're already talking aboutyoung drivers, right, and you're adding
close to childs high school. Right. I tell folks, I said,
look at the beginning of the daywhen they go out at lunch, at
the end of the day, probablynot the place you want to be unless

(01:15:32):
your business to be at school,right, you know, find somewhere else
to go. But you know,I just think that when you're talking,
when you're going back to the autonomywith the principles, right, they have
to have some autonomy because with fortysix school sites, you can't micromanage them
all and you'll be unsuccessful trying todo that. What you should be doing

(01:15:56):
is building up the leadership capacity ofthose different printsp right. You should have
you know, mentor principles and principalshas been successful, right, Who then
they can talk to, because yougot to have somebody just like that mentor
teacher. You got to have somebodyyou ask the dumb question to, because
to you read that moment, you'relike, God, this is dumb,
and I don't want to say thisout loud, but you need to ask

(01:16:16):
it. You need an answer,and they need to be able to call
me and know that I'm not goingto put them on blast because they asked
me that question. I also gotto sit there and be as a as
a leader who's been a veteran,be empathetic to that said, man,
that's that same dumb question years agowhen I first took over, Right,
I mean, because you do youquestion everything when you finally you know,
I tell other you know, whenwe have teachers who are becoming leaders,

(01:16:41):
you know, I always say tothem, when you're a principal, when
you turn around, there's nobody elsethere, You're it, right, and
it's an awesome responsibility. You goread those state statutes, most of them
for principles. It can be suchan intimidating thing. But that's why you
work on the processes and you workon your mindset. Why do you make
decisions? And that's why even whenI'm coaching up my teachers want to become

(01:17:01):
administrators. I bring them in andI say, ask about the decisions.
Let's walk through it. Right,do you do things a certain way?
Like I said, my thing islike, you want your kids safe,
you want them to be able tolearn, you want to be approachable.
Like say, you know there arethings that in year one when I came
in, they have evolved greatly overtwelve years, Right, We've learned to

(01:17:25):
do things differently, Like don't justbe stuck. I mean I'll give an
example. I mean you know thisfrom being I mean you know you your
step kids, right, I meanlike they were great, but you probably
remember this the first couple of years, like between I think through I think
the first year with my first year, the summer twenty twelve, we didn't

(01:17:47):
give out schedules to the first dayof school. Now, that was something
doctor Cox had in place, right. I didn't like that just because the
kids and parents are kind of trapped. Right, if you already got the
schedule. There's only so many days, and you can only change that schedule
so much. You know, wechanged it, and by two years later
we were giving out the schedules weeksin advance. Right now, parents the

(01:18:11):
same mad, but it was madand now I've got a chance to change,
and now we got a chance toadjust it, right or I thought,
this is what we had, well, you know, and then you
can explain, well, we weonly could have you know, thirty get
into this class, and we hadto have a cut off somewhere. So
we went with your second and thirdoption. But you know I had to,
you know, like as a leader, you helped the school evolve over

(01:18:32):
time to do different things, youknow, to respond differently to the parents,
because you know, parents want theschedule so that they can ease their
concerns. You know, just likewhen we do we do student tours,
right and everybody says, well,why do you split up the kids and
the parents? And I said,well, you're gonna walk together at orientation
when you're doing a student visit tour. I need the student to get used

(01:18:55):
to seeing this campus on their own, because like you and now, when
we've gone with our kids somewhere we'repeppering in their ear. You're looking at
this, you're doing this. Theycan't concentrate. They actually need to be
with their peers. They need tosee what this campus looks like. Okay,
can I get from that building thatbuilding in five minutes? Now,
at first it looks like you can. Now, when you're been there two
years, you know I can easilyget that. I can get there in

(01:19:15):
two or three minutes. But it'shelping them get perspective. And everybody has
to get through their anxiety. Theparent has a certain level anxiety, which
is why we actually have to walkto campus. Oh my gosh, this
place is big. It's my babygoing to make it right. So we
have to know. You have tohonor that they have anxiety, and it's
part of our job to try tohelp them relax it. So if you're

(01:19:36):
seeing it. That's why we've keptlist serve. This has been a big
discussion going on. All the otherschools have lost their list. Sir,
we pay for ours now. Ithink it's us in Lincoln. We still
have ours because we pay for ourown service. But the district is going
through focus. I will tell youthis. If you're on our list,
serve. I don't know if youare. I don't know if any of
your staff members on the Child's lister, but I like y'all being on

(01:19:57):
the list serve. When we're doinga fundraiser, I want you to know
about it. If we're doing wedid, uh, we did. We
got supplies for God be we afterthey had the flooding there. Right,
We've done Title I sporting goods.I can't do that just with my parents,
grandparents, community members. They broughtup stuff too. When we decide

(01:20:21):
not to want to communicate with ourpublic, that's the worst thing we do.
And we were talking about like ifif you want people believing in the
schools that you have, you gotto communicate with them, and you got
to tell them the good, badand indifference. Gotta tell them everything.
Don't shy away from I mean,look, my parents get mad if I
don't tell them fast enough that ifwe had if we had ambulance up there

(01:20:41):
with somebody for the nosebleed. Weget on that. We tell them we
sent a lot of messages, butthat lets them know we communicate and we
don't. We don't shy away fromit, you know. And that's why
I said good, badter indifferent.You said the word dumb about something,
and I immediately and don't form anopinion about this, but it immediately triggered

(01:21:02):
one thing in my mind, thelogo. Oh boy, all right,
I don't know your position on it. We haven't talked about this. You're
making me giggle man, all right, there are there are so many layers
of questions that I could throw butin the interest of time, yes,

(01:21:23):
sir, you know you laughed.Oh why, it's absurd. So let's
just on a on a couple ofdifferent levels, real quick. So let's
just do let's do the political level, right, So I'm his opponent,
But here's a here's a quick bitof advice. Don't change anything doing an
election year. Okay, that'd bejust one. Like everybody's like, why

(01:21:45):
are we doing it right now?We got other things that we're distracted with.
Well, there are obvious questions whichI will ask if given the opportunity,
about the connection between the person thatwas hired to do the logo and
and oh yes, other responsibilities.But but so here you go. So,
so here's the next part. Evenif you know I've heard you know,

(01:22:08):
I've heard someone say I didn't evencare about the logo. Yeah,
but the logo belongs to us,the people. You got to ask the
people first of all, do youwant something different, right, that's the
first question to ask. And wedid a proposal correct what we're thinking.
Would you go out to the communey? Now, that was one of the
things he said. So we hadthis meeting called District Advisory Council and he
and our way in there. Iactually still serving him, he did superintendent.

(01:22:30):
So he was in there and hewas taught this is right after they
had already approved it, and hewas getting torn up and he was trying
to say, well, we didgo out to the community, and I
said, no, we didn't.I just had to confront him. I
don't even care because I have totell the truth. No, we didn't.
We did not go out to thepublic. Now they said they had
these little groups. No, Iwill tell you between your radio station,

(01:22:51):
every radio station town, between theTV, between newspapers, between websites,
just between Facebook. If we weretalking about it, it would have been
the talk because everybody will say,let's get the kids involved, helping them
come out. Design. That's ifwe wanted. Because the first thing is
you got to decide do you needit. I will say, doing a
budget crunch and trying to get kidsto come back into the school, getting

(01:23:14):
a new logo is not it.Now, what they were talking about was
rebranding. If you're rebranding, youchanged the logo and you changed the name
like went on. Like on mypage, I talked about Comcast going from
Comcast to Infinity because you said Comcastthat was almost like a curse word.
They went to Infinity and they changedtheir logo because that was called rebranding.
Well, we went from clear Channelto iHeart Yes, right, and it

(01:23:40):
was softer. I mean, justthink about it. It kind of you
know, we rolled out an appthat was called the iHeart, and then
we brought the company along because theapp was driving so much popularity. We
then aligned the name of the companywith the with the app. Right,
So you then had the evidence.You had your people telling you this was

(01:24:00):
the way to go. We hadnothing. And then the committee, which
is a district advisor council that shouldreview everything, brought before the school board.
It didn't go before them. Theyshowed it to the principals in January,
and I'm getting ready to tell you. The reaction of the principals,
you're ready. They just stared.They stared. It was silence. I
wouldn't present on me. Yeah,I'm not in the room, So you

(01:24:23):
tell me if I'm wrong. Myinitial thought would be there are schools that
are not as well resourced as childsoh. I was sitting there saying,
ah, one hundred thousand dollars wouldhave provided fill in the blank. Well
let's go further. The one hundredthousand dollars just for the research and the
design of the logo. That's theone hundred thousand dollars, right, you're

(01:24:46):
not even get it's going to benorth of a million dollars to outfit the
vehicles, the buildings, all thedifferent stuff. That right, that's the
part I was upset about. Youif if you're in a budget crunch.
So he stood there before the border, He got in front of the lectern
and he says, we're in abudget crunch. This is after the teachers

(01:25:06):
got their raise. He said,we're now in a budget crunch. We
got a budget crisis, and westill go with this logo that should have
been scrapped. You tell the company, I'm sorry, we got a budget
crunch, you don't go with alogo. And I will tell you this,
and this is no I say thisand all do kind. Parents have
the right to take their kids wherethey want for education. That is their

(01:25:28):
right. But I will say this, if if the logo is as effective
as you think it is or itis going to be, has it brought
kids back into the district. AndI would dare you to say, ask
ask our teachers and our leadership whohave kids that don't go to Leon County
schools Because we listen, we gotteachers, and we got we got leaders

(01:25:51):
going oh wow, exactly. Andand I'll just be honest with you,
I don't like the way it looks. Well, the fact is your work
the district is they're facing an exodus. We got ten percent or better of
the students that have left in recentyears. It's not going to get better
anytime soon. The prevailing currents arejust what they are. The state has

(01:26:14):
availed parents of the resources to movetheir kids to the school they want.
So this is the thing is that. So what you're discussing is how do
we meet Let's just say it's acrisis. How do you meet it?
I will tell you this. Firstof all, it's just like you remember
if you went back just five yearsago, so let's say it's twenty nineteen,

(01:26:35):
there was arguments between virtual educations andin person education. Guess what the
pandemic did? It said person isbetter. Okay, I just tell you
that part of marketing our schools iswe haven't marketed property and we haven't asked
the right people like you know whatwe could have done. Ask the parents

(01:26:56):
that it's two sets of parents.You can ask ask the parents who've always
been admitted to Leon County schools,why did you choose it? And then
from that we also need to determinewhat do we do to make it better
to emphasize those things that we dowell, and then the things that were
not, how do we make thosebetter to make it more attractive? Right,
Because listen, if you could savea whole lot of money, even
with of ours, if you cansave money, you can go to your

(01:27:17):
local school with all the resources thatwe have, a lot of people would
choose that. But the second onewould be there are parents who do choose
to leave private school and come intopublic school. But I will tell you
this. Back in twenty seventeen,twenty eighteen, I had a parent who
had left Holy comforter well actually itwas they weren't going to go to McLay

(01:27:39):
okay, and nothing against them,but they and I went to the superintendent
and I said, hey, Igot a parent who knows some other parents,
and they actually want to advocate forpublic schools of why it's a great
option for them to choose. Andyou know, of course a lot of
parents say, you know, y'allactually treat us like they do in private
school, which I said, weshould. There are things that from the
different kinds of schools. They're likebest practice. You should be borrowing right

(01:28:01):
first of all, returning calls right, first class, you know all those
things. And when parents feel likethey're not getting it, that's what they're
gonna do. They move with theirfeet, especially when you've been giving money.
They're not gonna move with their feet. You gotta respond differently. You
can't sit there and say we're gonnado the same thing. So we're gonna
put out a logo, but we'regonna do the same thing. That doesn't
make any sense. The actions haveto be different. It's not the logo.

(01:28:24):
The logo was fine. We haveto be differently. Even if I
feel like, well, I've beensuccessful at my school, but I still
need to do difference. That's whenwhen I was going back before talking about
Nick Saban. You can't rest onthe fact that you've won six titles.
I got to try to keep improving. If you're Kirby smart, you've won
titles, but you got to keepimproving, right, That's that's the challenge

(01:28:45):
when you're a leader, like youcan't rest on what you've done. You
know, I think I think thecounty has and I'm gonna say things that
that my audience will expect me tosay, but it is not recognized by
the majority of the school board andthis district incidents as it relates to the

(01:29:08):
LGBTQ issues gender issues that happened atschools in the northeast part of town.
Parents want no part of that.They just don't want any part of a
school district that's going to not reinin ideology infecting the classroom, the library,

(01:29:31):
the resource centers, whatever it mightbe. That's the biggest driver of
why people are leaving the school districtis they don't trust that their kids are
going to just simply be allowed togo to school and learn, there is
a feeling and oftentimes, Joe inmy seat, I see issues where national

(01:29:56):
issues they try to make them localand they're not. It's not problem in
our community. This one is.This one's been a problem in our school
district, and ignoring it and pretendingthat it's not causes parents to just be
distrustful. Well, give me alike a like an example, and then
well what happened to dear Lake MiddleSchool that led to a federal lawsuit.

(01:30:18):
Now you could argue it needs tobe a state lawsuit, and maybe it
will be. But where administrators andstaff are transitioning a child without the parents'
knowledge, that just can't happen.That just can't happen. And the district
didn't really address that appropriately, andI'm not sure still has addressed it appropriately.

(01:30:45):
Staff members at schools putting up inappropriateposters for ideology, whether it's gay
pride or whatever it might be.It doesn't belong in a classroom anymore than
me putting up a Ronald Reagan posterback in the day would have belonged.
Yeah, i'll give you, I'llgive you, And I were in school,
I would bet you didn't know thepolitical leanings of most of your teachers.

(01:31:06):
No, I knew none of mine. As matter of fact, I'll
give you an example that I've hadat each of the schools that I've been
at. So on the election yearsand usually even the year before, I
tell all my staff, I said, you can put whatever you want on
your car, right, your caris your own personal vehicle. But inside
your room and your clothing, there'sno political paraphernalia. Right. So I

(01:31:30):
remember I had a staff member theyhad a button you just gotta go,
right. You know, I don'tcare you can't wear it, I said,
because the moment you do that,well is no First Amendment right to
free speech is employee correct, Andthat's a misnomer that people and so and
that goes with your clothing, youknow all that, right, No posters,
nothing, And I don't care whatside of the alue on like like

(01:31:53):
like for exactly, I just don'tand so like, look, we got
to follow the last So that's oneof the things. You know, you're
a constitutional officer. You gotta followthe law right now, even whether you
agree or disagree, because you couldalso say I don't think the law goes
far enough. I think the lawswould be less. That's not that's not
your part of it doesn't matter.You follow the law right and you follow

(01:32:14):
your local policies all that. AndI think this also goes to why I
think we need to return to communityconversations. Right even the parents, Like
even if I think they're going tobe hostile, I gotta still meet with
them. They should be able tosee me in an open form. Now
I do the Facebook lives, butI mean, like we get in the
auditorium and you come there and it'sa hot mic, and ask me anything

(01:32:35):
and then let us talk through it, because you should get feedback and you
know, because sometimes you know.And I can't really speak on an individual
issue because I wasn't involved with it, but I can just tell you this.
We we follow the law. Youknow kids. You know, when
you have kids on campus, thereare listen, we're statue of liberty.

(01:32:57):
We serve all kinds you know ofkids. What's been known is that here
in the state of Florida, parentrights is it's listed. So it's listed
what you have to do and thethings you have to do, and so
like we have and I will tellyou just for most guidance counselors. It

(01:33:17):
was an adjustment in their kind ofcreed that they are that they were taught
as far as like, uh,in the past, it was conversations that
were immediate to the health and safetyof the student was something that you reported,
right, But uh, now youknow it says if a student says,

(01:33:41):
hey, I'm coming out to you, you've got to notify the parents,
right. And I will tell youthere was good questions because I had
questions from some of my status likewell does that go even with like with
religion, does it you know,like because there's other important topics that come
inside of a household and how akid is feeling as they're evolving as a
person. And you know, nowI tell every kid you got to listen

(01:34:02):
to what your parents say. Youlive in their house. And I tell
my saif that don't mean you haveto agree with Just like here at school,
we got rules. You don't haveto like every rule, you just
have to follow them. Follow andso like us as the employees, same
thing for us. We don't haveto like every law, but we have
to follow it. And like Isaid, as a constitution officer, I

(01:34:23):
have to do that. Now wecan still have discussions about rules or sometimes
I think the frustration sometimes that's beeninside the school level, and if I
was talking to the governor or evento the Commission of Education, would be
the vagueness sometimes of a rule,because we do need clarity because as administrators
we live in gray so when thesemoments come up, I actually have to

(01:34:44):
know where that line is so thatI never get my staff on the other
side of that line correct. Soout of respect, that's why we ask
the clarifying questions. Now, ifthe superintendent and the governor, or the
superintendent and the Commissioner of Education orhaving these back and forth, kids will
losing out because they don't want totalk to us, and then we don't
want to talk to them. Weshould have a line of communication that's opening.

(01:35:06):
If I have a disagreement, itshouldn't be out here in the space
for everybody to be talking about.We talk about it in the background,
you talk about it tactfully, andI bring real points, right. I'm
not doing a side show. I'mnot just trying to get media articles written
about me just so I can tryto get disappeal from everyone, because that's
what you end up doing, andit doesn't help any kid, you know,

(01:35:30):
but we need more discussions between theparents. I should be approachable to
them. And that's why I broughtout community County. Remember those, right,
that's where you go out and form. I mean a lot of our
elected leaders aren't doing that right now. You need to be standing in front
of the citizens. And that doesn'tmean it needs to be every night,
but hey, once a quarter somethinglike that. Other thutes, yes,

(01:35:51):
because it's not fair. So you'vegone up there, You've done the whole
three minute things. The three minutesis not long enough when you're talking about
really getting down and you got tosay, in my service to you,
I'll come out to your neighborhood andto me if we af we're saying,
hey, we got to help liftup some of these other communities. And
if we're also worried about very opinionatedcommunities. Because the community you live in,

(01:36:14):
I will say, people will voicetheir opinion. Right, you can't
be afraid of either one. Yougotta go see You gotta go see them.
You gotta go see the community wheremaybe they don't come out as often,
but say hey, I'm right here, I'm approachable, right, you
can see me you you can comeand touch me. If we can't do
that, how we know we're reallyserving people? Right? I need to
hear you need to hear dissent.And why are you dessented? Like you

(01:36:38):
know you say, just like Isaid, give me an example, right,
you know, so I can reallyunderstand what's what is your issue?
What it's like? You know,because just like you said, I know
people who have left because of this, right, and even from them,
I'll say, maam, I wouldwant to get some more concrete examples.
And so you got one or twodecisions. You either say I just accept
that they left, sure, orI say, okay, is this something

(01:37:01):
I can do to change the waywe operate so that they can feel better
about the system that we have.Well, one thing we can agree on
is that any business that loses tenpercent of the market share needs to be
looking at itself. Yes, theydo the mirror, and you start from
yourself, Like before I ask anybodyelse to do anything different, I gotta
start with me. Last question ifyou get the job is superintendent of education.

(01:37:30):
Let's set aside the first staff meeting. Okay, what's job one?
So job one? I mean,like if we just talking about the first
day. You know, oh,just what is the number one thing I
need? Is the most important thingthat's going to stay on the whiteboard,
stay on the memos, stay onthe board until it's solved. It's one

(01:37:56):
of those slash because their time toget resked if not solved. So it
is, so it's it's a slash. One is the improved school safety because
we didn't I mean, we gotinto it some, but across our campuses
there's just too many incidents and we'vegot to get that solved. I really
feel they should be more foot soldiersand I say it like that, but

(01:38:17):
you should have more hall monitors onthe campuses. If you can prevent kids
from getting in the fights, thatkeeps them in school. People think when
you have more hall monitors, thatmeans that's more ways I'm trying to get
kids in trouble. I'm actually tryingto diffuse more situations. Yeah, that
too, but slash the student academicachievement. You've been a principal. One

(01:38:38):
of the things that no, Iwasn't a principal. I just ran o,
so use a medicine. So youso you were okay? So you
are you always saw the principal.All right, So for that principle,
right, the teaching and learning forthose students that never comes off that board.
Actually, even when you think you'vesolved it, no you have not.

(01:39:00):
That's why I said the improving.You're continuing to improve and you have
to look at new issues. Sojust like as you've attacked one issue and
you say, hey, we've madethis better, there's something else you got
to go get, and then there'ssomething else you gotta go get. And
by the way, as you sawthose other things, you got to maintain
them, and then you got tocontinue moving up. Does that does the

(01:39:20):
improvement in students have to begin withK through three? Because what I sense
and what I hear and what Iread and emails from teachers not just locally
but across the country, that rightme when I when I talk about education,
is that we're spending so much timedoing remedial because kids have been passed

(01:39:42):
and they weren't ready. They weren'tready to be passed. They weren't they
hadn't mastered the basics of kindergarten.So let me just say this, and
I've said this on my Facebook live, so those who have listened to me.
They know I've said this. Sothe education of kids starts prior to
a kid even being conceived. Absolutely, So the first thing you have to

(01:40:03):
do is you have to have amore literate public, right. I mean,
the more people know that gives themmore opportunities they can make adjustments,
right, you know, stable housingsituations, right, because one of the
worst things is when kids have tomove around a lot. But you can't
fix that. You can't you can'tdo. But there are things you can't

(01:40:27):
address. And so for example,helping people learn how to read, believe
it or not, that actually goesin it because they're going to have kids.
So the more I remember I wastalking about building the parent capacity,
and I know a lot of timespeople saying, well, that's not talking
about the classroom. It absolutely is. So if I if I help build
the parent capacity. So when Iused to be an elementary principal, the

(01:40:48):
toughest time was when a kid camein and they only had maybe a max
of three hundred vocapulary words. Right. That meant in that birth to five
years, they really had only gainedthree hundred words when they should be like
three thousand. Sure, Okay,that means we as a school district,

(01:41:09):
we got to start touching people orto even bring their kids here. Like
I said, I think like acoach, if you're waiting for them to
show up, it's actually too late. So the time before, as they're
having their kids and they're talking withteammates or the capital, you know,
like we should be talking with them. When you have your kid, Hey,
here's the things you need to workon. Here's the things you need

(01:41:30):
to look at. But also putit in young adult being a parent terminology.
Put it in the thirty zero terminology. And then if they're the older
parent, maybe the first kid they'rehaving us in their forties. But you
still need to talk to them aboutwhat to do with their kid and have
a conversation and tell them and thenhave resources where they can come. And

(01:41:51):
then after you have the kid,you stay, you keep communicating with them.
All of that is about getting themready for that kindergarten time, right.
What your teachers to tell you istrue. When they're behind, it
is difficult for them to learn.And then when you can't learn, you
act out more. Well not justthat Joe. You then are set up

(01:42:12):
to have to do social promotions becausetheir size because their age, and you
don't you know, teachers don't wantto hold them back or parents don't want
them to be helped, but they'renot ready. Well that's why I said,
there's a lot of work on there. And then you also, you
know, and it's really the twosided thing, right, you know,
you have to say, yes,parents got to do things with their kids.
Kids have to be ready, butwe also have to make sure the

(01:42:34):
lessons that we're giving the kid relatesto the kid sure. And that's why
I said, you know, ifa kid is from the country, you
talk about the country, you usethose in examples to help teach the kid.
And I tell any teacher, ifyou don't have the experience, you
need to go get it. Youneed to go find out, like teach
the lesson to the kids sitting inyour seats. Don't add like as you

(01:42:54):
sitting in the seat, it's themsitting in the seats, Like what perspective
are they coming from? How willthey understand it? But we have to
we got to engage early, wegot to engage often, and we got
to continue. And you don't,you know, it's almost like you're pressing
the gas. You don't come offthe gas. Those things will help those
situations greatly, all right. Imean like part of our turn around was

(01:43:16):
having our conversations with our you know, our early learning centers, right like,
making sure we had a relationship withthem. You know, it was
not you know, our place totry to you know what we all I
could do is tell them what theyhad to be ready for in kindergarten.
As a high school principal, oneof the things that I talked to we
even talked to middle school parents.We had a you know, like a
high school night is we're talking tothe colleges. Every year there's this Universe

(01:43:44):
Registrars meeting that they have, soall the registrars from all the state universities
here in the state of Florida.My curriculum person, my counselors, they
go every year. They drive whatwe do. Also, we talk.
I been I've been with the chambersince I've been the principal. Child's we've
been part of the chamber. Iactually made us a part of the chamber

(01:44:05):
separately from Leon County School. Youknow why, if you look on our
listener, we always are setting outjob notices to our kids. You got
to tell So you got to tellthem about the higher learning world, and
you gotta tell them about the realwork world, the opportunities that are out
there. How are you going tohave gainful employment? Right? Like,
it's important like those things drive whatwe do inside the building where they're going,

(01:44:28):
because you always say you got toknow where you're going, so that
you know because sometimes they'll say,well, why are you guys talking to
you know, the kids about this, Because that's that's the next step after
this. We got to know wherewe're going. And so we also then
articulate we talk to the middle schoolsand we talk to our elementary schools.
You got to start weaving in thoseconcepts so this is not something new.
When they go off, they've beenbuilt. They've been prepared for that.

(01:44:49):
That feet of paths got to beas strong as it can be. In
closing, what's the web web address? Where can people learn more? So
it's elect Joe Burgess dot com.Elect Joe Burgens dot com and on there
you will see my Facebook a linkfrom my Facebook page or Instagram. I

(01:45:09):
think ex is on it too.You're not going to see your name until
the general election. That is correct, because you're running as an independent.
I'm an independent. I've always beenan independent, so I know sometimes people
ask that question, but I've alwaysbeen I've been an independen since I was
eighteen. And I think you andI we talked about this years ago,
but I've read the uh so.I was moved by the second inaugural address

(01:45:29):
of George Washington and his farewell addresshis second you know, from his from
his second term, and from that, I just believed in being an independent.
You know, I appreciate people whoare in particular parties. I think
you be where your heart is.Like for me, though I like to
research, I don't want anybody tellingme how to think, you know.

(01:45:51):
I think people have fought, youknow, too hard to give me opportunities
that maybe I wouldn't have had yearsbefore, for me to just give my
thoughts way. Which is why Ilove having the chance to come in and
dialogue with you. Because there arethings sitting here to them saying, you
know, you really made me thinkabout some things. That is what I
love like, that is what weshould be doing. We should never be

(01:46:12):
afraid of this. We have eventslike the longest table you sit down,
sit down with somebody else who maybe so different from you you'd be surprised.
You might learn something, or youmay find out you got a lot
in common, you know, orthey're dead wrong. Yeah. Yeah,
Sometimes you gotta put your foot down, say man, I'm sorry. I'm
not coming off of this too.Thanks for coming in, yes, thank

(01:46:36):
you for having me.