October 10, 2024 • 37 mins
PART1 - Welcome to Carly Zucker’s Podcast, where we dive into the deep, real, and raw conversations of life—relationships, mental health, trauma, and recovery—along with everything in between.
Each week, Carly explores these difficult topics, embracing vulnerability and the beauty in brokenness. Through candid conversations, she shares her own journey and provides resources to offer hope and raise awareness.
Each week, Carly explores these difficult topics, embracing vulnerability and the beauty in brokenness. Through candid conversations, she shares her own journey and provides resources to offer hope and raise awareness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wmama Down.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Carly Zucker.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
A huge heartfelt thank you for taking the time to
listen today as we launch this new journey called Here
We Go. My hope is to build community in a
space that can feel very lonely and very isolating. We
will talk about everything from mental health to relationships and wellness,
and together support each other when life knocks us down
(00:31):
get back up as many times as we need to.
I do want to mention a couple trigger warnings. We'll
be talking about topics like trauma, mental health, addiction, and
suicidal ideation. Again, I can't thank you enough for taking
the time to listen to my story here we Go.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh man, man, we're just talking. I know I'm talking.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I am just going to talk about this very naturally
and very comfort socially hopefully, But I am nervous. Yeah,
Like this is going to be a conversation that's very vulnerable.
Doesn't always paint me in the best light, which is
really hard to talk about sometimes. But I'm ready to
(01:18):
have a conversation with one of my best friends, Chris Hockey.
So I'm Carly Zucker. You may have heard me on
KFA and the Powered Morning Show. I've been a weekly
guest for a long time now, like thirteen years. I've
done a lot of TV in the area and co
founded Give sixteen, so been very involved in the Minnesota community.
(01:40):
It's home for me and it's a very important place
to me, and so this feels like the right thing
to do.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah. I think it's a brave thing and I'm glad
to be a part of it, and I'm honored. And
I apologize for crying already, Eve, though I'm not crying yet.
I'm just going to get that out of the way
right now, so we get a blanket statement about that.
I want to ask you the question, the first question.
But first, where are you from?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I was born.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
In New Hampshire, Okay, but we moved here when I
was five, and so I moved to say I moved
solo alone.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
My family left me. I just took the river here.
Huh No.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
When I was five, my family moved to Saint Cloud.
So I grew up in Saint Cloud. And what high
school Saint claud Tech.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Go Tigers.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, I know some Saint claud Tech people.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I love Saint Clauds.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
They're all a mess.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, we're a disaster calendar is a disaster, but we
do love it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I mean like we're very committed. Oh yeah, yeah, very loyal.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
You know, I can't believe the amount of talented people
coming out of Saint And I don't say that as
a joke. I'm in a band full of them.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
But there's some things, you know, there's some things about
well every area of the country, but specifically, there are
some things about that area of the country that I
see I I believe pertained to what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Absolutely, a lot of people struggling. Yeah, so tell me
Carly to get things started. What are we talking about today?
Why are we here?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So it's been a very long year and a half
for me of change, and I have been very public,
I feel like for most of my adult years on
social media, yeah, and on the radio, have been very open,
(03:29):
been very I feel like, but it's all been very positive.
You know. You paint that picture of things being really great,
and honestly, a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Of it was. You know, it wasn't ever faked.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It's just that there's so much more to people, not
just me, but people in general than what you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
On social media. And we all know that.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
But to talk about it and to share those stories
and to really get vulnerable about it and open about it.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I don't truly believe that we do enough of it.
And so I think because I've been.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So open and have shared so much, that everything that's
gone on in this last year and a half and
what led to it, is an important conversation to be had.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
You said it like five times.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Oh yeah, what is it I had?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I mean to get down to the bones of what
I've been dealing with. I've had mental health struggles my
entire life, since i was very young, and I want
to make sure that I'm not during these conversations.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm not glamorizing anything that is being.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Said, because it is difficult and it's not pretty. But
it's something many many people go through on varying levels.
And that's the other piece of this. There's so many
levels and everybody's so different. But mental health is a
(05:05):
crisis right now, it will.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Continue to be.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And I think that when we open conversation about it
and we can feel more vulnerable and we can, you know,
lean on people and.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Know how to ask for help, that I hope.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
That I can be a resource for that and that
I can kind of lead that path. So mental health
struggles are a big piece of this. Also, I've been
sober for a little over a year and a half now,
thank you. And so addiction is a piece of this
as well, and what led to you know, I want
(05:44):
to we'll talk about treatment. I went to treatment for
eighty days, which is a very long time but was needed.
And yeah, so between addiction, mental health, family, I mean,
I'm also divorce now, and so there are many pieces
(06:04):
of that kind of it that we'll be talking about
that again, I just think are really important to share.
And then also the good from it, like what happens
when you learn and grow and what happens.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Not You never really completely.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Get through any of it, right, like you're always living
with it, absolutely, but the process and the good that
can come from it. So I think that from the darkness,
I've also had a lot of light and I think
that sharing all of that has become extremely important to
me because I isolated. I've isolated myself for a year
(06:45):
and a half. I've barely seen friends. I have really
leaned on my family, but I have holed myself up,
basically embarrassed to go out, rate of questions, afraid of
what people think or what people know, and so I've
(07:06):
spent a year and a half being very afraid, and
doing this I am hopeful will allow me to tell
my own story and then empower me to kind of
get back out there and again hopefully be a resource,
because isolating yourself is a very scary, lonely thing.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
For sure. I see I see the same ten seven
fifteen second snippets that everybody sees on social media. Have
everybody at their best, everybody at their best moment and
the rest of the day is real. And I think
what you said is really really important. There's so many
young people, older people, that there's so many of us
(07:45):
out there who are struggling. And when all you see
and all you're confronted with is the best aspects of
other people's lives, you start saying, well, there's obviously something
wrong with my life. And I think one of the
things that perhaps hopefully we can accomplish here today and
as we move forward with this, is letting people know
that you don't have to feel happy every second of
the day and you're not going to, and that you're
(08:06):
allowed to have bad days, and that you're allowed to
not be perfect and you're allowed to not look perfect,
and you're not allowed to you're allowed to struggle, and
more than anything, you're allowed to share that and ask
for help when you need it. How long, No, that's
a bad way to ask it. What happened that made
you finally ask for help?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
It truly became a life or death situation for me.
I So I had a childhood trauma. And there are
some things I won't get into detail details about because
I think it's personal and there's certain you know, people involved.
I just don't think it's appropriate to talk about. But
(08:46):
I had significant childhood trauma and then some pretty significant
traumas in my young adult years, and those I I
never really dealt with, you know, but they're always there.
So I would just move forward. And if I was
(09:08):
achieving externally, then everything's fine, right, So I could distract
myself with the things that I was doing on the outside,
but everything was still inside, and so I really had
ignored everything that was going on.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
That I considered bad.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And I want to make sure to say too, like
traumas are when you go to treatment, they call them
big teas and little Tea's right, there's big, big traumas
and then there's the little T traumas.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
A big trauma.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
For example, you know, rape is a big T trauma.
But at the same time, no trauma is more important
or more devastating or worse than another. You don't compare
your traumas how you cope with them and how you
deal with them.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It doesn't that's what is affected, doesn't matter what it is.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Trauma is trauma, and again I think we all experience
it to some degree. It's just what are they and
how does your how do you cope with it?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Well, I think that's a really important point because what
might be a little tea to you might be a
giant tea to me because I don't have the skills.
I was never taught the skills how to deal with
that particular tea. So I think that's a great point
as well. Carly Is, you may be out there saying, I,
you know, I've had a pretty charmed life. I don't
(10:32):
really have any giant teas. I got a bunch of
little teas. You may never have been taught how to
handle these small te's that that you're dealing with, and
that can be that that can make them much much
bigger and make them just as hard to deal with.
It can be your thing, don't. I think people are
unwilling to admit that they have had traumas in their
(10:56):
life because they don't feel as if they are worthy
of comparing their trauma to other people.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Absolutely, And again I think just a huge important piece
that I can't stress enough is trauma isn't comparable. Yeah,
and it's your coping skills, Like you said, how are
you taught to cope? And then so much of it
is that we all have unmet needs. And when those
unmet needs aren't addressed in an appropriate way, or you're
(11:22):
not able to fulfill them truly kind of on your own,
and you don't have the coping skills, it can come
out in negative ways. And so yeah, So I mean
the trauma piece was a big one for me. And
then in twenty twenty two, March of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Two, after COVID, I really started to kind of collapse.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I think a lot of the external started disappearing for me. Right,
Like I wasn't as busy in social media, I wasn't
as busy at the foundation.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I wasn't as busy going to events.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
And going to the radio show and doing TV, so
all my external validation that I had put so much
of my worth in started disappearing. So I'm at home
and I'm you know, kind of hit by a train
with the trauma, and I don't have the coping skills,
(12:21):
and at the same time, I have no validation or
self worth, my negative self talk. I mean, it might
be surprising to hear when you see the social media
posts and things like that and the life I lead,
and I've no complaints over the life I've led. I
get that I have again, I think it's a situational
(12:42):
thing where all of our lives things could be worse, right,
Like absolutely, I get my situation could be worse, but
it doesn't take away from the mental health struggles that
I had. And so COVID really was a difficult thing
for me because it away that external validation and so
I had no self worth.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I was negative self talk from.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
The morning tonight. I couldn't do one thing right. There
was not one thing about me I liked, and that
put me in a really dark hole that I never
really came out of.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And so.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
March of twenty twenty two was pretty pivotal for me
because I called I remember Jason was in Pittsburgh and
I called him and I said, I don't think I'm
gonna make it. I'm in a spot where I you know,
I've had sue, and I want to be honest about this.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I've had suicidal ideation.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Since I was twelve, so at a very young age,
it was something that was in my head.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's obviously not every day.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
It's just when I felt like I couldn't cope and
things were really bad, it felt like the way out
for me. And I think I want to be really
clear on what it meant. What that means for me
is that it wasn't that I was looking for attention,
and I think it can be very misunderstood, and I
think it's also something that's very different for all people.
(14:11):
But in my experience, suicide wasn't something that I was
looking for attention.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It wasn't something that I felt like it was selfish.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I genuinely felt that I was so much of a
burden to the people around me that it would that
the world was better off without me, that everybody would
move forward, and if I wasn't there, it was taking
away the problem. And so that's what it meant to me,
(14:46):
and so and again I lacked the coping skills. So
March twenty twenty two, I called Jason and told him that,
and neither of us really knew what to do.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You know, he was in season. I had the kids.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
You don't know what the right answer is. I was
in a headspace still where it's like, there's no way
I could go to treatment.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
What am I?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You know, like, where do you even go to treatment
for something like that? And so that happened, and then
things just progressively got worse. I never I just kept
I was very reactionary. I was isolating. I was in
survival mode. I guess this is the best way to
(15:30):
put it, survival mode. I was taking care of the
kids and making sure they were where they needed to be,
get had what they needed, Are they at their activities school, Like,
If they were taking care of and everything was good,
that's all that needed to happen.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I was sleeping a lot. I was just not living and.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Not having conversations or communicating with Jason anymore very well,
you know, because I didn't know what to say to him.
I didn't want to talk to anybody. And so at
the end of that year, that's when the divorce started
so at the end of twenty twenty two, and that
(16:15):
was such a.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Blow to me that.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I I kind of lost sense of almost reality. I
just my survival mode just became the way I lived.
But it wasn't It became almost unlivable, is.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I guess the best way I could say it.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
So on February fifth of twenty twenty three, that's when
I decided to go to treatment.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And that was the big step for me.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Was there a single episode before that day that you're
willing to talk about?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Oh? Man, it's yeah. The thing is I mean this
and talking to you about it. I wanted to make
sure that I'm honest, even.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
With the bad stuff or the difficult stuff I had said.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
You know, my drinking was not healthy. I wouldn't even drink, honestly.
I wouldn't even drink socially anymore. I would just go
home and drink at night. And I was very quote
unquote lucky because my sister and my mom were very helpful,
so they'd come stay over a lot of times. So
it was like, Oh, somebody's here for the kids, so
I can drink. And I just didn't want to feel anything.
(17:34):
I was drinking to just feel nothing, and I wanted
to just completely escape, and so that was my way
of doing it. And so we were supposed to go
to the Bahamas for the bye week, and Jason decided
not to go, understandably, so the position we were in,
(17:56):
I went. And I had luckily had to actually babysitters
that were scheduled to come with us, so again I
felt like the kids are taken care of.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I drank.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Almost NonStop on that vacation, and that's a very scary
thing because my kids hadn't really seen me get to that.
You know, it was after they went to bed. I
wasn't a day drinker, so a lot of the times
it was I would drink at night while they were
sleeping and there was an adult in the house, so
(18:30):
it all just felt okay. You know, you make all
these excuses with addiction, You make all these excuses for yourself.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
That it's okay because of this and this.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
And I drank the entire time because I was just
completely had collapsed, and it was the first time, Oh,
Sophia had really seen me in a bad state with that. Yeah,
(19:00):
and that's devastating because you never want to make your
children feel unsafe or that they have to worry about
you because they're kids. So when we got home from that,
(19:20):
Jason ended up taking the kids to Pittsburgh with him
because I was just in such a bad spot and
it was the right decision. But at that point, again,
February fourth, I basically drank all day and I had
gotten the closest to the point where I said, this
(19:43):
is what I'm going to do, and this is I
can't beat you know, my kids are all taken care of,
they're better off without me.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And so that was the spot.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
In which was the worst, the probably my rock bottom,
where I was alone. Thankfully my sister and I had
a few friends who came over to support me, but
alone in the sense of I didn't have my family
any you know, it was Yeah, I was just.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
In a very defeated spot, and so.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I slept that night that February fourth, I didn't drink
that morning. My sister was with me and we kind
of talked all morning, and thankfully we made a decision
that day. Again, it's so difficult. I think something important
about what we're talking about, too, is what do you
(20:44):
even do in these positions?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Right? It's so you don't even know the right move.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
You don't know what you need sometimes and if you're
on the outside in your the support system, what do
you do? And if you're the person in it, you're
in such a tough spot that you don't even know
the right next you know, the next right move.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And so we.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Literally googled like a suicide hotline and they showed up
to the house shortly after and it was two people
and they came in and they were incredible, Like I
would I would say, and I hope nobody has to
deal with this, but if there's a spot like that,
(21:32):
don't hesitate to make those calls, because they're there for
a reason. And it was extremely helpful. They came and
they helped me formulate a plan to make my next move.
So they they told me to give myself a deadline,
like if you're going to go somewhere like five o'clock today,
(21:54):
I'm going to check myself into this place. And there's
a variety of places that you can choose from. I
ended up going to a place called Mpath at the Minnesota.
University of Minnesota owns it. It's Fairview South at Fairview
South Dale.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
It's called Mpath and.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I said five o'clock, I'm going to go check myself in.
And that was the short term plan because they only
take you for maybe two days, three days. It's a
place for mental health but also substance, and they have
medical staff on hand because emergency rooms really aren't equipped
(22:36):
for this, right so it's important to have those places
and so yeah, so I made that decision and packed
a very small bag and my sister dropped me off.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And it was the scariest thing I too.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
I can say without question, the scariest thing I've ever
done was to walk through those doors. But it's also
the best thing I e read it. So I went
into there. You don't have your phone, you don't have anything,
so you're really just I laid in a plastic chair
(23:21):
and they check your vital you know, it's very medical.
They make sure that, especially because there's varying degrees of
and alcohol is the only thing that you can die
from coming out of. Thankfully, I wasn't too bad at
that point, So I was like, health wise, I was
(23:42):
doing okay, but I feel like I'm talking a tount.
Is there anything I keep going yeah, okay. No. So
I was there for three days, and again just got
into a state of sobriety, got into a state of
(24:03):
what's the plan for next?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah moves, And so they offered.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
They offer they sit you down with counselors and they
talk about what your next steps can be. And I said,
I want to go door to door to a facility.
I want to go to a treatment center.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Wow, wow, wow, Carly. I want to right their state
and remember where you're at right now, because I have
to ask you this question I had. This is about
you and not about me, But I had a similar
situation where I literally made the decision Okay, I'm going
to live, you know, and I don't know why, you know,
(24:44):
I can't even I mean, I'd love to be able
to tell you, well, I did it, you know, for
my kids, or I did it for this reason that
I just I had. I decided I wasn't going to job.
What was it for you? What was it? What made
you walk through those doors? Because a lot of people
(25:07):
walk through those doors knowing they're going to go back
and drink again. Why did you walk through the doors?
What made you go through there? And furthermore, did you
think you could do it?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Those are such great questions it's hard to answer the why.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I I finally felt for some reason, I don't like
you said, I wish I could be like it was
my kids, my may or anything like that, because those
should be, like naturally, they should be the reasons why
we are better people. And I don't get me wrong,
(25:48):
there's nothing more than I want to be the best
mom in the world to those kids, and they deserve that,
and I recognize that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And I know.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
People can have a lot of judge around this, like
why can't you just stop drinking for your kids?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Why can't you just not do this?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
And to be honest, it's just so much deeper than that,
And that's what this conversation is is that it's not
for some people. It is not it's not that easy.
You know, it's not easy to do on your own,
and so I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I was ready.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, I don't even know what exactly it was, but
I was ready to not keep living like that. And
I think it was that I had again stopped living
and I was just tired. I was so tired mentally, physically, emotionally,
(26:42):
and I knew that if I didn't do this, I
couldn't keep going right, And so I was ready to
walk in those doors.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Interesting for me, It really was, as you know, we're
being real, right, this is always an option to try. Yeah, thankfully,
I did you know? I'm still sitting here. Thankfully you
did and you walked through those doors. When you say
(27:12):
after three days you were sober, i'm changing your words.
But right after those three days, I don't know how
long it had been since you'd felt that completely sober,
that clean. When you looked forward, did you think, oh,
I got this, I can do it by myself.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Okay, absolutely not not to jump in, but that's why
I am.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I knew. That's why I said to them, I need
to go door to door.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I believed if I went home, I would fall into
the same Nothing had been solved, right. I had stepped
through those doors to save myself in a way, but
nothing had been sort I hadn't dealt with anything, and
that was the biggest piece.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Did you know what you had to deal with?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
I knew what was there. I knew the traumas that
were there. I knew I wasn't coping well. But truly
I kind of felt like this is how people live, right,
Like the way I was talking to myself in my head,
the way there was chaos in my head, the way
I couldn't react appropriately to people. I was very emotionally unstable.
(28:25):
I could keep it together, but when it was coming,
when it came to reacting to things, Jason or the
smallest things, I was at at eight, nine or ten,
where you should be at like a two, three four,
if you're talking about like a scale of emotional reaction.
And I was always very emotional reactive because I couldn't
(28:47):
I couldn't get sad. I could not cry and express
that emotion, so instead I would get angry or I
would become very reactionary, and that is no way to
live life or deal with people. So I knew all
these things about myself, you know, but I didn't know
how to change. I thought, this is the way I am,
(29:08):
and this people's heads are just full of negative things
about themselves all twenty four to seven, you know. And
of course that stuff is there, But to the extent
of which mine was, there was so damaging, right, And
I can genuinely say I hated myself. I had no
love for myself, no compassion, no forgiveness. I just had
(29:34):
a lot of self hatred.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Carly You've said a couple of times sort of in passing.
You know, I know that I've had a wonderful life.
You know this, that and the other. Self worth right
comes from inside, deep inside. Doesn't matter how great your
life is, how good you look, how expense of your
(30:00):
house is, all those things, a lot of times you
earn because of your lack of self worth. Your drive
to find a way to love yourself leads you to
highly succeed because you think that's going to make you
love yourself right completely, And that hole in there, it
(30:23):
never goes away until you acknowledge it and find a
way to deal with it. So I think I would
love people out there listening to understand that never feel guilty,
never feel bad, Never feel unworthy of your sadness or
your trauma or your depression. Yours is yours, Yours is real.
(30:45):
You can't compare it to anybody else's, and you don't
know how to deal with it, and you're not in
a position where you have to do it alone. Man,
it speaks so much to me, Carly, because I thought,
I literally thought, and I think we share this, that
(31:05):
my life was on a different scale from everybody else,
and by that I mean, I felt like I had
to earn on a different scale because I was so
worthless that people could live a life where they didn't
work as hard as I did, do as much as
(31:26):
I did because they weren't as worthless as I was.
I had to work this much harder because I had
to find a way to please the universe, to please God,
to earn the right to live. Because I was such
a piece of crap. And so that was my driving force,
(31:48):
this feeling of worthless inside me. People would come up
to me and say, you're such a happy guy. You
look like you're happy all the time. I'm putting on
an act because I feel like that's my job in life.
In order for me to earn the right to breathe,
I have to work harder than you.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So I.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Really need people to understand. You see rock stars and celebrities.
You saw Chris Cornell do what he did Chester Bennington,
and people say, my god, what does he have to
be depressed about. He's a rock star. The thing that
sometimes makes you a superachiever is the thing that ends
(32:28):
up getting you in the end. And I hear that from.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
You, Yeah, and that's I'm so glad you brought that
up because I felt so undeserving of everything in my life.
So it was a fantastic life, and we have a
materialistic all of those things and great kids and healthy
I mean, yes, on paper, it was top to.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Your incredible life.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I felt so undeserving that I would beat myself up
all day about having it because I didn't deserve it.
I felt so undeserving of my husband, and I think
I was very self deprecating about that. You know, I
would make jokes about things like that a lot, because
(33:18):
but it was because it was in my heart and
in my head that I.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Didn't deserve it.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
I didn't even feel like I deserved life, let alone
a great life. And so it's so true, and I
think that's I think you put it so beautifully in
saying like you can have all the things and the
life can be the greatest, you can be a rock star.
But when you don't feel like you deserve life, and
(33:47):
you deserve even a good life on any scale, it
doesn't matter what you have.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
It doesn't at all.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Did you always feel like you were on the tipping
point of losing everything as well? Every second?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, I would have dreams about Jason divorcing me. I
would have nightmares of just life and being alone. And
I think loneliness is a huge thing we'll talk about
as well, because.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
You don't believe any that you deserve anybody, and they're
going to find out that's yes.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yes, yeah, I would almost. I almost manifested what happened
because I you did, because I believed so strongly that
was the thing I believed the most that he deserved
better and this life wasn't mine and I was just
(34:43):
temporarily existing in this place.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
And I am so fortunate to.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Be the mom of three incredible kids that are that
that will be there, you know that that I will
have and I want to be the example for them
of a life well lived, you know, and of having
a good life and that does not come with things,
and that does not come with materialistic items, but just
(35:13):
enjoying in the gratitude that comes from feeling worthy of life.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
A huge heartfelt thank you for listening.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
I promise I'm not going to take this much time
at the end of every episode, but I did want
to say a special thank you to my family and
friends who have picked me up. They've sat with me,
walked with me, kept me going. I am just forever
grateful for what you have invested in me, so thank you.
It would be too long to name all of you,
(35:46):
but you know who you are. A huge thank you
to Chris Hockey for being just an incredible friend and
confidante and guiding me through this interview today, Dave Plente
for filming, Zach Halverson and Brett More for producing. Thank
you all so much for putting this together.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
You know. Please look for more information on the.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Next episodes we'll be releasing every Thursday, and they'll.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Be on various topics.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
We're going to talk about support systems and what it
looks like to be on the other side and have
emotional conversations with my sister and my family about that,
and then have professionals talk about what that looks like.
Child psychologists will do and ask us anything situation, so
we are gonna have a lot to talk about. Please
(36:34):
visit my website Here we Go podcast dot com for
more information as we build this community together, and most importantly,
if you are in crisis, reach out for help at
NAMI dot org or call one eight hundred two seven
three eight two five five.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Thanks for listening Here we Go guys, ex
Wmama Down.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Carly Zucker.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
A huge heartfelt thank you for taking the time to
listen today as we launch this new journey called Here
We Go. My hope is to build community in a
space that can feel very lonely and very isolating. We
will talk about everything from mental health to relationships and wellness,
and together support each other when life knocks us down
(00:31):
get back up as many times as we need to.
I do want to mention a couple trigger warnings. We'll
be talking about topics like trauma, mental health, addiction, and
suicidal ideation. Again, I can't thank you enough for taking
the time to listen to my story here we Go.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh man, man, we're just talking. I know I'm talking.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I am just going to talk about this very naturally
and very comfort socially hopefully, But I am nervous. Yeah,
Like this is going to be a conversation that's very vulnerable.
Doesn't always paint me in the best light, which is
really hard to talk about sometimes. But I'm ready to
(01:18):
have a conversation with one of my best friends, Chris Hockey.
So I'm Carly Zucker. You may have heard me on
KFA and the Powered Morning Show. I've been a weekly
guest for a long time now, like thirteen years. I've
done a lot of TV in the area and co
founded Give sixteen, so been very involved in the Minnesota community.
(01:40):
It's home for me and it's a very important place
to me, and so this feels like the right thing
to do.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah. I think it's a brave thing and I'm glad
to be a part of it, and I'm honored. And
I apologize for crying already, Eve, though I'm not crying yet.
I'm just going to get that out of the way
right now, so we get a blanket statement about that.
I want to ask you the question, the first question.
But first, where are you from?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I was born.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
In New Hampshire, Okay, but we moved here when I
was five, and so I moved to say I moved
solo alone.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
My family left me. I just took the river here.
Huh No.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
When I was five, my family moved to Saint Cloud.
So I grew up in Saint Cloud. And what high
school Saint claud Tech.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Go Tigers.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, yeah, I know some Saint claud Tech people.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I love Saint Clauds.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
They're all a mess.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, we're a disaster calendar is a disaster, but we
do love it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I mean like we're very committed. Oh yeah, yeah, very loyal.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
You know, I can't believe the amount of talented people
coming out of Saint And I don't say that as
a joke. I'm in a band full of them.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
But there's some things, you know, there's some things about
well every area of the country, but specifically, there are
some things about that area of the country that I
see I I believe pertained to what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Absolutely, a lot of people struggling. Yeah, so tell me
Carly to get things started. What are we talking about today?
Why are we here?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So it's been a very long year and a half
for me of change, and I have been very public,
I feel like for most of my adult years on
social media, yeah, and on the radio, have been very open,
(03:29):
been very I feel like, but it's all been very positive.
You know. You paint that picture of things being really great,
and honestly, a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Of it was. You know, it wasn't ever faked.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It's just that there's so much more to people, not
just me, but people in general than what you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
On social media. And we all know that.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
But to talk about it and to share those stories
and to really get vulnerable about it and open about it.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I don't truly believe that we do enough of it.
And so I think because I've been.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So open and have shared so much, that everything that's
gone on in this last year and a half and
what led to it, is an important conversation to be had.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
You said it like five times.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Oh yeah, what is it I had?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I mean to get down to the bones of what
I've been dealing with. I've had mental health struggles my
entire life, since i was very young, and I want
to make sure that I'm not during these conversations.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm not glamorizing anything that is being.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Said, because it is difficult and it's not pretty. But
it's something many many people go through on varying levels.
And that's the other piece of this. There's so many
levels and everybody's so different. But mental health is a
(05:05):
crisis right now, it will.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Continue to be.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And I think that when we open conversation about it
and we can feel more vulnerable and we can, you know,
lean on people and.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Know how to ask for help, that I hope.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
That I can be a resource for that and that
I can kind of lead that path. So mental health
struggles are a big piece of this. Also, I've been
sober for a little over a year and a half now,
thank you. And so addiction is a piece of this
as well, and what led to you know, I want
(05:44):
to we'll talk about treatment. I went to treatment for
eighty days, which is a very long time but was needed.
And yeah, so between addiction, mental health, family, I mean,
I'm also divorce now, and so there are many pieces
(06:04):
of that kind of it that we'll be talking about
that again, I just think are really important to share.
And then also the good from it, like what happens
when you learn and grow and what happens.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Not You never really completely.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Get through any of it, right, like you're always living
with it, absolutely, but the process and the good that
can come from it. So I think that from the darkness,
I've also had a lot of light and I think
that sharing all of that has become extremely important to
me because I isolated. I've isolated myself for a year
(06:45):
and a half. I've barely seen friends. I have really
leaned on my family, but I have holed myself up,
basically embarrassed to go out, rate of questions, afraid of
what people think or what people know, and so I've
(07:06):
spent a year and a half being very afraid, and
doing this I am hopeful will allow me to tell
my own story and then empower me to kind of
get back out there and again hopefully be a resource,
because isolating yourself is a very scary, lonely thing.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
For sure. I see I see the same ten seven
fifteen second snippets that everybody sees on social media. Have
everybody at their best, everybody at their best moment and
the rest of the day is real. And I think
what you said is really really important. There's so many
young people, older people, that there's so many of us
(07:45):
out there who are struggling. And when all you see
and all you're confronted with is the best aspects of
other people's lives, you start saying, well, there's obviously something
wrong with my life. And I think one of the
things that perhaps hopefully we can accomplish here today and
as we move forward with this, is letting people know
that you don't have to feel happy every second of
the day and you're not going to, and that you're
(08:06):
allowed to have bad days, and that you're allowed to
not be perfect and you're allowed to not look perfect,
and you're not allowed to you're allowed to struggle, and
more than anything, you're allowed to share that and ask
for help when you need it. How long, No, that's
a bad way to ask it. What happened that made
you finally ask for help?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
It truly became a life or death situation for me.
I So I had a childhood trauma. And there are
some things I won't get into detail details about because
I think it's personal and there's certain you know, people involved.
I just don't think it's appropriate to talk about. But
(08:46):
I had significant childhood trauma and then some pretty significant
traumas in my young adult years, and those I I
never really dealt with, you know, but they're always there.
So I would just move forward. And if I was
(09:08):
achieving externally, then everything's fine, right, So I could distract
myself with the things that I was doing on the outside,
but everything was still inside, and so I really had
ignored everything that was going on.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
That I considered bad.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And I want to make sure to say too, like
traumas are when you go to treatment, they call them
big teas and little Tea's right, there's big, big traumas
and then there's the little T traumas.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
A big trauma.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
For example, you know, rape is a big T trauma.
But at the same time, no trauma is more important
or more devastating or worse than another. You don't compare
your traumas how you cope with them and how you
deal with them.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
It doesn't that's what is affected, doesn't matter what it is.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Trauma is trauma, and again I think we all experience
it to some degree. It's just what are they and
how does your how do you cope with it?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Well, I think that's a really important point because what
might be a little tea to you might be a
giant tea to me because I don't have the skills.
I was never taught the skills how to deal with
that particular tea. So I think that's a great point
as well. Carly Is, you may be out there saying, I,
you know, I've had a pretty charmed life. I don't
(10:32):
really have any giant teas. I got a bunch of
little teas. You may never have been taught how to
handle these small te's that that you're dealing with, and
that can be that that can make them much much
bigger and make them just as hard to deal with.
It can be your thing, don't. I think people are
unwilling to admit that they have had traumas in their
(10:56):
life because they don't feel as if they are worthy
of comparing their trauma to other people.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Absolutely, And again I think just a huge important piece
that I can't stress enough is trauma isn't comparable. Yeah,
and it's your coping skills, Like you said, how are
you taught to cope? And then so much of it
is that we all have unmet needs. And when those
unmet needs aren't addressed in an appropriate way, or you're
(11:22):
not able to fulfill them truly kind of on your own,
and you don't have the coping skills, it can come
out in negative ways. And so yeah, So I mean
the trauma piece was a big one for me. And
then in twenty twenty two, March of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Two, after COVID, I really started to kind of collapse.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I think a lot of the external started disappearing for me. Right,
Like I wasn't as busy in social media, I wasn't
as busy at the foundation.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I wasn't as busy going to events.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
And going to the radio show and doing TV, so
all my external validation that I had put so much
of my worth in started disappearing. So I'm at home
and I'm you know, kind of hit by a train
with the trauma, and I don't have the coping skills,
(12:21):
and at the same time, I have no validation or
self worth, my negative self talk. I mean, it might
be surprising to hear when you see the social media
posts and things like that and the life I lead,
and I've no complaints over the life I've led. I
get that I have again, I think it's a situational
(12:42):
thing where all of our lives things could be worse, right,
Like absolutely, I get my situation could be worse, but
it doesn't take away from the mental health struggles that
I had. And so COVID really was a difficult thing
for me because it away that external validation and so
I had no self worth.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I was negative self talk from.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
The morning tonight. I couldn't do one thing right. There
was not one thing about me I liked, and that
put me in a really dark hole that I never
really came out of.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And so.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
March of twenty twenty two was pretty pivotal for me
because I called I remember Jason was in Pittsburgh and
I called him and I said, I don't think I'm
gonna make it. I'm in a spot where I you know,
I've had sue, and I want to be honest about this.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I've had suicidal ideation.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Since I was twelve, so at a very young age,
it was something that was in my head.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's obviously not every day.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
It's just when I felt like I couldn't cope and
things were really bad, it felt like the way out
for me. And I think I want to be really
clear on what it meant. What that means for me
is that it wasn't that I was looking for attention,
and I think it can be very misunderstood, and I
think it's also something that's very different for all people.
(14:11):
But in my experience, suicide wasn't something that I was
looking for attention.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It wasn't something that I felt like it was selfish.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I genuinely felt that I was so much of a
burden to the people around me that it would that
the world was better off without me, that everybody would
move forward, and if I wasn't there, it was taking
away the problem. And so that's what it meant to me,
(14:46):
and so and again I lacked the coping skills. So
March twenty twenty two, I called Jason and told him that,
and neither of us really knew what to do.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
You know, he was in season. I had the kids.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
You don't know what the right answer is. I was
in a headspace still where it's like, there's no way
I could go to treatment.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
What am I?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You know, like, where do you even go to treatment
for something like that? And so that happened, and then
things just progressively got worse. I never I just kept
I was very reactionary. I was isolating. I was in
survival mode. I guess this is the best way to
(15:30):
put it, survival mode. I was taking care of the
kids and making sure they were where they needed to be,
get had what they needed, Are they at their activities school, Like,
If they were taking care of and everything was good,
that's all that needed to happen.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I was sleeping a lot. I was just not living and.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Not having conversations or communicating with Jason anymore very well,
you know, because I didn't know what to say to him.
I didn't want to talk to anybody. And so at
the end of that year, that's when the divorce started
so at the end of twenty twenty two, and that
(16:15):
was such a.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Blow to me that.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I I kind of lost sense of almost reality. I
just my survival mode just became the way I lived.
But it wasn't It became almost unlivable, is.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I guess the best way I could say it.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
So on February fifth of twenty twenty three, that's when
I decided to go to treatment.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And that was the big step for me.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Was there a single episode before that day that you're
willing to talk about?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Oh? Man, it's yeah. The thing is I mean this
and talking to you about it. I wanted to make
sure that I'm honest, even.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
With the bad stuff or the difficult stuff I had said.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
You know, my drinking was not healthy. I wouldn't even drink, honestly.
I wouldn't even drink socially anymore. I would just go
home and drink at night. And I was very quote
unquote lucky because my sister and my mom were very helpful,
so they'd come stay over a lot of times. So
it was like, Oh, somebody's here for the kids, so
I can drink. And I just didn't want to feel anything.
(17:34):
I was drinking to just feel nothing, and I wanted
to just completely escape, and so that was my way
of doing it. And so we were supposed to go
to the Bahamas for the bye week, and Jason decided
not to go, understandably, so the position we were in,
(17:56):
I went. And I had luckily had to actually babysitters
that were scheduled to come with us, so again I
felt like the kids are taken care of.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I drank.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Almost NonStop on that vacation, and that's a very scary
thing because my kids hadn't really seen me get to that.
You know, it was after they went to bed. I
wasn't a day drinker, so a lot of the times
it was I would drink at night while they were
sleeping and there was an adult in the house, so
(18:30):
it all just felt okay. You know, you make all
these excuses with addiction, You make all these excuses for yourself.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
That it's okay because of this and this.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
And I drank the entire time because I was just
completely had collapsed, and it was the first time, Oh,
Sophia had really seen me in a bad state with that. Yeah,
(19:00):
and that's devastating because you never want to make your
children feel unsafe or that they have to worry about
you because they're kids. So when we got home from that,
(19:20):
Jason ended up taking the kids to Pittsburgh with him
because I was just in such a bad spot and
it was the right decision. But at that point, again,
February fourth, I basically drank all day and I had
gotten the closest to the point where I said, this
(19:43):
is what I'm going to do, and this is I
can't beat you know, my kids are all taken care of,
they're better off without me.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And so that was the spot.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
In which was the worst, the probably my rock bottom,
where I was alone. Thankfully my sister and I had
a few friends who came over to support me, but
alone in the sense of I didn't have my family
any you know, it was Yeah, I was just.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
In a very defeated spot, and so.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I slept that night that February fourth, I didn't drink
that morning. My sister was with me and we kind
of talked all morning, and thankfully we made a decision
that day. Again, it's so difficult. I think something important
about what we're talking about, too, is what do you
(20:44):
even do in these positions?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Right? It's so you don't even know the right move.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
You don't know what you need sometimes and if you're
on the outside in your the support system, what do
you do? And if you're the person in it, you're
in such a tough spot that you don't even know
the right next you know, the next right move.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
And so we.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Literally googled like a suicide hotline and they showed up
to the house shortly after and it was two people
and they came in and they were incredible, Like I
would I would say, and I hope nobody has to
deal with this, but if there's a spot like that,
(21:32):
don't hesitate to make those calls, because they're there for
a reason. And it was extremely helpful. They came and
they helped me formulate a plan to make my next move.
So they they told me to give myself a deadline,
like if you're going to go somewhere like five o'clock today,
(21:54):
I'm going to check myself into this place. And there's
a variety of places that you can choose from. I
ended up going to a place called Mpath at the Minnesota.
University of Minnesota owns it. It's Fairview South at Fairview
South Dale.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
It's called Mpath and.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
I said five o'clock, I'm going to go check myself in.
And that was the short term plan because they only
take you for maybe two days, three days. It's a
place for mental health but also substance, and they have
medical staff on hand because emergency rooms really aren't equipped
(22:36):
for this, right so it's important to have those places
and so yeah, so I made that decision and packed
a very small bag and my sister dropped me off.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
And it was the scariest thing I too.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
I can say without question, the scariest thing I've ever
done was to walk through those doors. But it's also
the best thing I e read it. So I went
into there. You don't have your phone, you don't have anything,
so you're really just I laid in a plastic chair
(23:21):
and they check your vital you know, it's very medical.
They make sure that, especially because there's varying degrees of
and alcohol is the only thing that you can die
from coming out of. Thankfully, I wasn't too bad at
that point, So I was like, health wise, I was
(23:42):
doing okay, but I feel like I'm talking a tount.
Is there anything I keep going yeah, okay. No. So
I was there for three days, and again just got
into a state of sobriety, got into a state of
(24:03):
what's the plan for next?
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah moves, And so they offered.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
They offer they sit you down with counselors and they
talk about what your next steps can be. And I said,
I want to go door to door to a facility.
I want to go to a treatment center.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Wow, wow, wow, Carly. I want to right their state
and remember where you're at right now, because I have
to ask you this question I had. This is about
you and not about me, But I had a similar
situation where I literally made the decision Okay, I'm going
to live, you know, and I don't know why, you know,
(24:44):
I can't even I mean, I'd love to be able
to tell you, well, I did it, you know, for
my kids, or I did it for this reason that
I just I had. I decided I wasn't going to job.
What was it for you? What was it? What made
you walk through those doors? Because a lot of people
(25:07):
walk through those doors knowing they're going to go back
and drink again. Why did you walk through the doors?
What made you go through there? And furthermore, did you
think you could do it?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Those are such great questions it's hard to answer the why.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I I finally felt for some reason, I don't like
you said, I wish I could be like it was
my kids, my may or anything like that, because those
should be, like naturally, they should be the reasons why
we are better people. And I don't get me wrong,
(25:48):
there's nothing more than I want to be the best
mom in the world to those kids, and they deserve that,
and I recognize that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And I know.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
People can have a lot of judge around this, like
why can't you just stop drinking for your kids?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Why can't you just not do this?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
And to be honest, it's just so much deeper than that,
And that's what this conversation is is that it's not
for some people. It is not it's not that easy.
You know, it's not easy to do on your own,
and so I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I was ready.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, I don't even know what exactly it was, but
I was ready to not keep living like that. And
I think it was that I had again stopped living
and I was just tired. I was so tired mentally, physically, emotionally,
(26:42):
and I knew that if I didn't do this, I
couldn't keep going right, And so I was ready to
walk in those doors.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Interesting for me, It really was, as you know, we're
being real, right, this is always an option to try. Yeah, thankfully,
I did you know? I'm still sitting here. Thankfully you
did and you walked through those doors. When you say
(27:12):
after three days you were sober, i'm changing your words.
But right after those three days, I don't know how
long it had been since you'd felt that completely sober,
that clean. When you looked forward, did you think, oh,
I got this, I can do it by myself.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Okay, absolutely not not to jump in, but that's why
I am.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I knew. That's why I said to them, I need
to go door to door.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I believed if I went home, I would fall into
the same Nothing had been solved, right. I had stepped
through those doors to save myself in a way, but
nothing had been sort I hadn't dealt with anything, and
that was the biggest piece.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Did you know what you had to deal with?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
I knew what was there. I knew the traumas that
were there. I knew I wasn't coping well. But truly
I kind of felt like this is how people live, right,
Like the way I was talking to myself in my head,
the way there was chaos in my head, the way
I couldn't react appropriately to people. I was very emotionally unstable.
(28:25):
I could keep it together, but when it was coming,
when it came to reacting to things, Jason or the
smallest things, I was at at eight, nine or ten,
where you should be at like a two, three four,
if you're talking about like a scale of emotional reaction.
And I was always very emotional reactive because I couldn't
(28:47):
I couldn't get sad. I could not cry and express
that emotion, so instead I would get angry or I
would become very reactionary, and that is no way to
live life or deal with people. So I knew all
these things about myself, you know, but I didn't know
how to change. I thought, this is the way I am,
(29:08):
and this people's heads are just full of negative things
about themselves all twenty four to seven, you know. And
of course that stuff is there, But to the extent
of which mine was, there was so damaging, right, And
I can genuinely say I hated myself. I had no
love for myself, no compassion, no forgiveness. I just had
(29:34):
a lot of self hatred.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Carly You've said a couple of times sort of in passing.
You know, I know that I've had a wonderful life.
You know this, that and the other. Self worth right
comes from inside, deep inside. Doesn't matter how great your
life is, how good you look, how expense of your
(30:00):
house is, all those things, a lot of times you
earn because of your lack of self worth. Your drive
to find a way to love yourself leads you to
highly succeed because you think that's going to make you
love yourself right completely, And that hole in there, it
(30:23):
never goes away until you acknowledge it and find a
way to deal with it. So I think I would
love people out there listening to understand that never feel guilty,
never feel bad, Never feel unworthy of your sadness or
your trauma or your depression. Yours is yours, Yours is real.
(30:45):
You can't compare it to anybody else's, and you don't
know how to deal with it, and you're not in
a position where you have to do it alone. Man,
it speaks so much to me, Carly, because I thought,
I literally thought, and I think we share this, that
(31:05):
my life was on a different scale from everybody else,
and by that I mean, I felt like I had
to earn on a different scale because I was so
worthless that people could live a life where they didn't
work as hard as I did, do as much as
(31:26):
I did because they weren't as worthless as I was.
I had to work this much harder because I had
to find a way to please the universe, to please God,
to earn the right to live. Because I was such
a piece of crap. And so that was my driving force,
(31:48):
this feeling of worthless inside me. People would come up
to me and say, you're such a happy guy. You
look like you're happy all the time. I'm putting on
an act because I feel like that's my job in life.
In order for me to earn the right to breathe,
I have to work harder than you.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So I.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Really need people to understand. You see rock stars and celebrities.
You saw Chris Cornell do what he did Chester Bennington,
and people say, my god, what does he have to
be depressed about. He's a rock star. The thing that
sometimes makes you a superachiever is the thing that ends
(32:28):
up getting you in the end. And I hear that from.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
You, Yeah, and that's I'm so glad you brought that
up because I felt so undeserving of everything in my life.
So it was a fantastic life, and we have a
materialistic all of those things and great kids and healthy
I mean, yes, on paper, it was top to.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Your incredible life.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I felt so undeserving that I would beat myself up
all day about having it because I didn't deserve it.
I felt so undeserving of my husband, and I think
I was very self deprecating about that. You know, I
would make jokes about things like that a lot, because
(33:18):
but it was because it was in my heart and
in my head that I.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Didn't deserve it.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
I didn't even feel like I deserved life, let alone
a great life. And so it's so true, and I
think that's I think you put it so beautifully in
saying like you can have all the things and the
life can be the greatest, you can be a rock star.
But when you don't feel like you deserve life, and
(33:47):
you deserve even a good life on any scale, it
doesn't matter what you have.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
It doesn't at all.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Did you always feel like you were on the tipping
point of losing everything as well? Every second?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, I would have dreams about Jason divorcing me. I
would have nightmares of just life and being alone. And
I think loneliness is a huge thing we'll talk about
as well, because.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
You don't believe any that you deserve anybody, and they're
going to find out that's yes.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yes, yeah, I would almost. I almost manifested what happened
because I you did, because I believed so strongly that
was the thing I believed the most that he deserved
better and this life wasn't mine and I was just
(34:43):
temporarily existing in this place.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
And I am so fortunate to.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Be the mom of three incredible kids that are that
that will be there, you know that that I will
have and I want to be the example for them
of a life well lived, you know, and of having
a good life and that does not come with things,
and that does not come with materialistic items, but just
(35:13):
enjoying in the gratitude that comes from feeling worthy of life.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
A huge heartfelt thank you for listening.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
I promise I'm not going to take this much time
at the end of every episode, but I did want
to say a special thank you to my family and
friends who have picked me up. They've sat with me,
walked with me, kept me going. I am just forever
grateful for what you have invested in me, so thank you.
It would be too long to name all of you,
(35:46):
but you know who you are. A huge thank you
to Chris Hockey for being just an incredible friend and
confidante and guiding me through this interview today, Dave Plente
for filming, Zach Halverson and Brett More for producing. Thank
you all so much for putting this together.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
You know. Please look for more information on the.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Next episodes we'll be releasing every Thursday, and they'll.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Be on various topics.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
We're going to talk about support systems and what it
looks like to be on the other side and have
emotional conversations with my sister and my family about that,
and then have professionals talk about what that looks like.
Child psychologists will do and ask us anything situation, so
we are gonna have a lot to talk about. Please
(36:34):
visit my website Here we Go podcast dot com for
more information as we build this community together, and most importantly,
if you are in crisis, reach out for help at
NAMI dot org or call one eight hundred two seven
three eight two five five.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Thanks for listening Here we Go guys, ex
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