October 10, 2024 • 30 mins
PART 2 - Welcome to Carly Zucker’s Podcast, where we dive into the deep, real, and raw conversations of life—relationships, mental health, trauma, and recovery—along with everything in between.
Each week, Carly explores these difficult topics, embracing vulnerability and the beauty in brokenness. Through candid conversations, she shares her own journey and provides resources to offer hope and raise awareness.
Each week, Carly explores these difficult topics, embracing vulnerability and the beauty in brokenness. Through candid conversations, she shares her own journey and provides resources to offer hope and raise awareness.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Down. Welcome to part two of my conversation with Chris Hockey.
Make sure to check out part one and swing back
for parts three and four as well. Here we go, So.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Just resetting the scene. That's Carly's oker. My name is
Chris Hockey, and we're having a deep conversation here, very deep,
some real deep conversation stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Stuff you never think you'll talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's a I think it's going
to help some people, I hope, so help some people,
you know. So here we are. You've gone, You've gone
to treatment.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Path in three days, which is the first.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Three days, and now you've decided you're going to go
door to door a man, that's a tough question to
ask you. This is a tough one. It's a tough one.
Do you know what that at that moment? How long
you're going to be gone?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Do you have the idea? I know that in theory
a lot of treatment centers are thirty days, So that
was the general idea.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Gotcha, which is ended up being more than that by
a lot. But that's still a long time and you're
leaving your kids.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, oh my gosh, that was.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh the guilt, oh my, oh.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Oh because again, a lot of questions you get, how
could you leave your kids for that long? Again, my
only answer to that was it was it was genuinely
life or death for me. And I wanted to be
the mom that they deserved because I would throw great
(01:49):
parties and I would make sure they have everything they need.
And but mom was tired a lot, you know, and
so I wasn't as or as present with them as
they deserved and I wanted to be. And so, oh,
leaving them was absolutely the most difficult decision, the most
(02:18):
the toughest piece of this because you can't imagine, like
it's hard to go a weekend without your kids or
a few days and knowing not only was I not
going to be able to physically see them, but I
would have no phone and so my communication with them
would be a landline if I had to talk to them,
(02:40):
and that was terrifying.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
The terrifying isn't just that they can't get a hold
of you. It's that they can't get a hold of you,
and they might get used to it.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Oh, that they might feel relief over it, or that
they might be yeah that like again better off, we're
all fears And then you know, of course with Sophia,
I mean the littles, it was very difficult, but with
(03:13):
Sophia being so aware. You know, at the time, she
was twelve years old, so she's going through so much
on her own. And to feel like I wasn't going
to be there if she needed me. You know that
your mom needs you, or you need your mom in
(03:35):
certain instances, whether it's just a hug or making your
lunches or you know, all the things that a twelve
year old needs. And to know that I wouldn't be
there for her was devastating. But I am so fortunate.
(04:05):
She has an incredible dad, an incredible father, and his
wife is unbelievable and they have two little kids. And
so he stepped up completely when I called and we
said that this is you know, it kind of happened quickly,
of course, and he just stepped up and he said,
(04:27):
she she'll move down here.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, And so she moved to their home and was
with them for the rest of the school year. And
I have I will have guilt around that forever, in
the sense that she had to uproot her life so quickly.
She's an incredible kid, and you know, she's lived a
(04:52):
life that has changed a lot with Jason's job and
with everything. So she is very adaptable, but it's still
very unfair.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
To her Carly. I just for clarification, and this is
not Jason we're talking about for people who don't know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
J yeah, yeah, right, yep. She was from a different relationship.
And again, her dad is just an incredible person, understanding
and allowed it, just gave me the grace to go
do this and was not hard on me, did not
(05:30):
make me feel guilty, just stepped up wonderful And so
I'm very fortunate for that because I knew she was
in the best spot right like her dad's just as
great as mom, you know, So I was very relieved
that she had that place to go.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I don't want to give away the end of the
movie before we get to the story, but I do
want to do this right now because I think it's
important because somebody out there listening right now might be
on the verge of taking the step that need to
take that you took. As we sit here, how long
has it been since since you got back from treatment?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So I got back beginning of April twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Three, right, so it's been more than a year. Yeah,
as we sit here right now, as bad as that
moment was to leave the kids and be gone, how
grateful are you right now that you did it? How
much better is your life? How much better is their
life right now because you made that decision that day.
You're looking back now at a terribly tough moment. But
let's talk about the result of it as far as
(06:33):
you know it right now. How glad are you that
you did that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I would do that ten times over. I would choose
that every single time because I am much more of
the mom. You know, I'm not a perfect mom, nobody is.
I am much more of the mother I want to
be to them. I am living life, not just going
(06:55):
through it. My patience and my understanding of emotions with
them and my you know, I was never a yeller
with them, but you know, if they would get upset,
I'd have a hard time engaging with them about it.
Now I just let them be upset with me and
like feel it with them and what I feel like
I'm teaching them through all I learned your treatment and
(07:19):
the work I've done after, I think I can gift
them into dealing with the difficult things. They'll go through
in life.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
What you taught them is that you shouldn't suffer.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, and they yeah, and mom was suffering. And I
think that their lives will be very different and are
very different. And even though there were some negative results
of some of this, I think that they have a
(07:54):
much stronger present mom who's available to them. And you know,
I know with addiction that nothing is guaranteed, but I
am resilient and I am steadfast in the work that
I do to maintain my sobriety.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
That your life is worth five yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and that doing the work for it is worth
it and valuable. So it is. I would do it
even though it was unbelievably hard. I would absolutely do
it again over and over.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Do you want to set an example that life is
suffering and you just have to suffer, or do you
want to set an example that if you're suffering, try
to try to get better.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
If your leg was broken, you go to the doctor.
If you're having issues mentally, you should go to the doctor.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And I guarantee you the kids in the future, someday
when they're older, it could reflect and truly understand would
believe that that time away is worth it.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I've thought this, and I've seen it in practice. With marriages,
people sometimes quote unquote stay together for the kids. And
I'm a proponent, I understand, man, you know, of of
strong family units. But I also am a proponent of
setting an example that says, you only get one life
(09:25):
if you're if you're being mistreated, especially if you're being mistreated,
don't set the example that that's okay. So I would
say this is another great example of that. If you
are suffering, it's you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
You don't have to. In fact, it's your job, in
your one little life, to find a way to be better.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And there are resources, you know, And I think that's
where I had missed the boat for so long? Was
you know? I think as an adult, you feel like
you just have to figure it out on your own.
You just have to figure it out. You're a grown up.
And I wasn't figuring it out even though I needed to. Yeah,
(10:07):
and that there are resources out there for people to
help you through these things.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yes, there are, Carly, let's let's go back to going
door to door. Yeah, tell me, as somebody who's not
been to treatment, is there any way to describe what
that's like.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Oh, surreal. I mean it felt I kept thinking, can
I do this? I have to do this. I you know,
it was I was second guessing myself. But I also
had this immense feeling of relief that I had made
(10:48):
that decision. Really, yeah, it was probably the most relief
I've I had felt in years.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Explain that to me if you would, Yeah, like you'd
finally given up.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Like No, it was just that I was I had
finally chosen help. Yeah, I had finally chosen an opportunity
to get help. And that relief was immense. And so
there was this huge piece of me that was like
(11:21):
a deep breath that felt, Okay, you're gonna go get
the help you need. Yeah. And so I chose a
place called Boutaire and it is in Minnesota, southern Minnesota.
And what I loved about it, Opposed to what I
(11:41):
think people should look into when they're if they ever
need treatment, they specialized mental health. They tied mental health
to addiction and substance use. And for me, and I
believe for a lot of people, there's underlying mental health
conditions that can lead to substance abuse and addiction. And
(12:04):
that was a huge piece for me. So I knew
if I just tried to tackle not drinking, that was
never going to last or never going to solve the
problem for me. I needed to address what made me drink,
what I was numbing, what I didn't want to feel,
developed the coping skills I didn't have, and so that's
(12:27):
what I needed. So Bautaire was a place, small place,
forty about forty four other patients clients at the facility,
and it was just it saved my life. That place
saved my life.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Tell me about the physical aspect of not drinking. Did
you suffer with that at all?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Those first three days when I was at MPATH, I
had some elevated blood prentant some things, But I because
I wasn't drinking twenty four to seven for for a
long time, I didn't suffer as many physical consequences because
mine a lot of the times was like binge drinking
at night alone, you know, So I didn't suffer as
(13:15):
many physical symptoms coming out of it as some people do.
But when I got there sober, you know, you can
show up there sober or not to the treatment center,
and I was there sober, and you become vulnerable adults,
and you turn over your phone and you're electronics and
(13:38):
you commit to being there. And I was ready to
put in the work. I wanted to do the work there.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Were you able to let go of the public, Carly.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I was there, absolutely, But going there one of my
biggest fears, hundred percent. I kept saying to my sister,
she was my mom. Dad and sister drove me there,
and I was so fearful of what would come out.
I was so fearful would people find out I went
to treatment? What do people know about me and Jason?
(14:15):
What is being said on the internet. I mean, granted,
we are not national celebrities. I fully understand that, but
in Minnesota people knew us to some extent in some pockets,
and so I was really worried about the public image
of what was happening, and how can I do this
(14:38):
without people finding out? That's obviously changed, I'm happy to
tell people now. But when I got there, I was
the most myself I've ever been in my life. Through treatment. Wow,
I felt I had never felt like I belonged and
it wasn't anybody else's fault, it was just how I
(15:00):
I felt about me. I never felt I belonged in
the wives room at the hockey Games. I never felt
like I belonged at the fancy events. I never ever
felt like I belonged at certain dinners or experience or
a lot of different things. I never felt like I belonged.
When I went to treatment, I was completely myself, authentically vulnerable,
(15:22):
everything that you could think of at your core, just
raw was who I was there and I found out
I liked that person.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, And that was really special cause like and I
found and like other people liked me, which is like
you made. I made genuine connections with other people who
I could have conversations with that understood deeply what I felt.
(15:53):
And that's what's difficult too, is like we all have
great friends, and we have great family or and people
to talk to, but the conversations you have with the
people in treatment, they deeply understand what you're going through
without judgment. There's no judgment in those walls. We all understand.
(16:15):
And there are people that are seventy in there, and
there are people that are eighteen. It is every diverse
group of people you could imagine in a treatment center,
and you realize, at the core, you're all just wanting
your needs meteah and to cope.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
We're not saying that after the fourth day you were cured. No,
because you were supposed to be there for thirty and
you were there for how long?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I did eighty days of treatment?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Tell me why?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So I ended up doing thirty four days at Bautaire.
I needed. I mean, I I don't move into I
was committed. I was like, I mean, you know, the
external validation jumped in a bed. I was ready to commit.
I was like, I'm going to be the best at
truthment if I convene.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No, So I wanted to do it. So when I
was there, I committed to it and I did the work.
But at the end of those days, what I had
realized was I had not dealt with any of the
trauma specifically. I had addressed a lot of issues, the
current things that were going on. Who I was, you know,
(17:36):
generational trauma, you know you learned. So I was learning
so much there, But what I had not done specifically
there they don't necessarily specialize in it is addressed trauma
and I and so I hadn't done any of that.
So I felt like I had done all this great work.
But if I don't deal with those things specifically, I
(18:00):
am going to either fall back or continue patterns negative patterns,
or I won't have done all the work. I won't
have done everything I can to be the best version
of myself. And so I told one of the counselors that,
(18:20):
and we found a trauma center in Colorado called All
Points North and they specialize in trauma, and so I
decided to go there next. And you know, you know,
our marriage is what it is at this point. But
Jason gave me, just like Jeremy Sophia's dad, gave me
(18:45):
the grace to take as much time as I needed
without guilt. He when I told him about this, because
I was afraid to. He's in season. They are. Everybody's
picked up this slack for me. You know, my family's
his face family. All our families are jumping in to
take care of our kids while he's on the road.
And baby said, you know, it's not easy to juggle
(19:08):
any of that. So to ask then for more time
to go to another facility, I it was more guilt.
It was more should I do this more? You know,
I'm not worthy of this, oh a thousand percent, Like
I don't really need, you know, like I don't really
deserve to go do all of this, and you know
I already did this piece. So but again I had
(19:31):
this deep feeling and after having that sobriety and having
that work that I did at Motaire, I knew this
was a like in my gut, I knew that this
was my next step, and it absolutely was. Again it's
one of those things that I felt like a reflecting
(19:55):
on was absolutely something I would do again. So I
went there for forty six days. And there's no at
all points north that this trauma center, there's no real timeline.
You could go for two weeks, you could go for
ninety days. I mean you could go for a year.
(20:16):
People just their needs are different, right, And so for
me it was forty six days. And I found out
when I went there, because they have they have the
medical equipment, the education, the resources to deal with trauma.
I found out that not only did I feel like
(20:38):
I was living in survival mode, but when you scan
my brain, my prefrontal cortex was barely functioning anymore. I
was living in my brain stem a fight or flight flight.
I was in constant fight or flight mode. So that's
where those reactions were coming from and learning that was
(20:59):
some what of a relief, thinking I'm not crazy. I mean,
I don't have to be this way. This isn't truly
who I am. But I was living in fight or flight,
and I could see it.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You weren't born malfunctioned.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
We are born and you and I know this of
the light with the light inness we're all of love,
and I deeply believe that. But I was not. I
was living in fight or flight and I could see
that then physically see that, and so I think that
was we're a little bit of a relief almost to learn.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
If you go in and you're sick and the doctor
says you're fine, you go home and you come back
and you say I'm sick and the doctor says you're fine,
and you go home and you come back and the
Dutch says you've got pneumonia. You still have pneumonia. You're
finally like, thank God, we know what's wrong with me now.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yes, it's like yeah, it's when you don't know the
answer to why you feel sack.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
People are telling you there's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Oh, and you're just you just know and we all
know right like you have that that voice in your
head telling you something's not right, and I knew I
knew something wasn't right.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
For clarification, when you left the treatment center bo Botaire, Yeah,
and you went to Colorado, would you say you were
no longer an alcoholic? I'm sorry, it's wrong. Yeah, were you.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Were?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
You passed that part of your problem?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
No, I mean I don't. I will never be pasted
it probably. No, that's not at all. No, I mean
I'm glad that's a that's a great question, because I
think that's a question people would ask. I wasn't feeling
like I wanted to drink, That's what I was saying. Yeah,
So I was not having the desire to drink at
that point. Changed, Yeah, Okay, I was. Again, I was
(22:52):
addressing where mine was coming from, and that for me,
as someone with addiction, was where what I needed, you know,
and again is all over the map, right, so it
all looks different for me. It was needing to address
this mental health and cope with it. At that time.
I think maybe because I knew I was going to
(23:13):
another facility, I didn't feel like I wanted to drink. Yeah,
and so I had no urge to like before I
got on the plane to go there, before I wanted to,
and so I yeah, So I got there and it
was I mean, it was a beautiful experience, and it
(23:34):
was difficult. There's this thing called trauma sweats where it's
they tell you about it where I mean, I was
sweating through the night every night when I was there,
because you're finally facing these things and your body. What
I didn't know what would happen so much through this
(23:55):
experience was how physical it would be for you. And
my body was reacting so much, so I was having
such a physical experience to dealing with these issues. Also,
I had been drinking since I was fourteen, so I
had never really and I mean obviously it wasn't every
(24:17):
day for me, but I had not faced things sober
for a long time. I had not been completely sober
where difficult day, you know, good day, you know, those
trauma conversations. I had to face it without anything, without
a phone to scroll on, without anything to distract me.
(24:38):
I had to just sit in it. Yeah, and to
sit in that is what heals you. But it is
a very very difficult thing.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
The level of discomfort is on par with nothing. I
can't believe. Well, you know, let me look at it
a different way, if you don't mind, Carly, because the
fascinating thing for me is how good your body and
your brain is at protecting you.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Oh, you will build an army for you.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I mean I physically with my trauma. It sounds cliche.
It sounds like I'm writing a story, like I'm living
in a movie. I put that Son of a Bitch
in a box, and I know I did not look
at it. I put it away and I felt ways.
I found ways as a young kid to cope with it,
to live for forty five years. It's amazing. I mean,
(25:41):
it was terrible, ocd was It broke me and then
that led to this, and then that led to that.
I found different addictions, I found different ways to cope.
What I learned was that those that was my brain
and my body keeping me from acknowledging the terrible thing
(26:03):
I went through, which is beautiful. I didn't know how
to cope with that. My body, my little tiny brain.
And I say that because I was a kid, you know,
found a way for me to exist within that. So
it's it's terrible and it broke me in the end,
but it got me through forty years of my life.
You know, isn't it amazing?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah? And I mean clearly neither of us are doctors,
but I can say through what both of us have
learned through. I know the education both of us have
done is that you develop those at such a young age.
I mean you're talking two three one two three. You
start building your army to protect yourself, and the way
(26:47):
you do that will then affect you in your future. Yeah,
good and bad.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And so I had done the same thing. I had
built these protections to make sure that I I wasn't
feeling what I had felt when I was in pain,
But it was there. It's sitting there, just waiting to
come out.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, right right. I can't imagine that there was because
I don't know specifically your trauma, but I can't imagine
that there was a moment for you where it all
came rushing back. So are we talking about a series
of days living in that darkness, remembering and reliving.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, I mean I think it was periodic that those
would happen. And again, I think COVID was where I
started to have it more daily. I was sitting in
it daily.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I'm speaking, I'm sorry, specifically with dealing with it when
you got to this the.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Oh yeah, yeah. The nice thing is that there's levity
in the people you're with and the the activities you
do and being outside. You know. So they do a
wonderful job of creating a safe space and I don't
(28:10):
want to say like a fun space, but you know,
you play cards with people at night, you engage in
great conversations, so you can leave a room after having
a session that is the heaviest thing you could talk about,
and you know, lots of crying and all of that,
and you step outside into a very therapeutic situation. And
(28:34):
that's what they do a very beautiful job of. There
a huge heartfelt thank you for listening. I promise I'm
not going to take this much time at the end
of every episode, but I did want to say a
special thank you to my family and friends who have
picked me up. They've sat with me, walked with me,
(28:56):
kept me going. I am just forever grateful for what
you have invested in me, So thank you. It would
be too long to name all of you, but you
know who you are. A huge thank you to Chris
Hockey for being just an incredible friend. And confidante and
guiding me through this interview today. Dave Plente for filming,
(29:18):
Zach Halverson and Brett Blake Moore for producing. Thank you
all so much for putting this together. You know, please
look for more information on the next episodes we'll be
releasing every Thursday, and they'll be on various topics. We're
going to talk about support systems and what it looks
like to be on the other side and have emotional
(29:38):
conversations with my sister and my family about that, and
then have professionals talk about what that looks like. Child
psychologists will do and ask us anything situation, So we
are going to have a lot to talk about. Please
visit my website Here we Go podcast dot com for
more information as we build this community together, and most importantly,
(30:02):
if you are in crisis, reach out for help at
NAMI dot org or call one eight hundred two seven
three eight two five five. Thanks for listening Here we
Go guys.
Down. Welcome to part two of my conversation with Chris Hockey.
Make sure to check out part one and swing back
for parts three and four as well. Here we go, So.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Just resetting the scene. That's Carly's oker. My name is
Chris Hockey, and we're having a deep conversation here, very deep,
some real deep conversation stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Stuff you never think you'll talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's a I think it's going
to help some people, I hope, so help some people,
you know. So here we are. You've gone, You've gone
to treatment.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Path in three days, which is the first.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Three days, and now you've decided you're going to go
door to door a man, that's a tough question to
ask you. This is a tough one. It's a tough one.
Do you know what that at that moment? How long
you're going to be gone?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Do you have the idea? I know that in theory
a lot of treatment centers are thirty days, So that
was the general idea.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Gotcha, which is ended up being more than that by
a lot. But that's still a long time and you're
leaving your kids.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, oh my gosh, that was.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh the guilt, oh my, oh.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Oh because again, a lot of questions you get, how
could you leave your kids for that long? Again, my
only answer to that was it was it was genuinely
life or death for me. And I wanted to be
the mom that they deserved because I would throw great
(01:49):
parties and I would make sure they have everything they need.
And but mom was tired a lot, you know, and
so I wasn't as or as present with them as
they deserved and I wanted to be. And so, oh,
leaving them was absolutely the most difficult decision, the most
(02:18):
the toughest piece of this because you can't imagine, like
it's hard to go a weekend without your kids or
a few days and knowing not only was I not
going to be able to physically see them, but I
would have no phone and so my communication with them
would be a landline if I had to talk to them,
(02:40):
and that was terrifying.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
The terrifying isn't just that they can't get a hold
of you. It's that they can't get a hold of you,
and they might get used to it.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Oh, that they might feel relief over it, or that
they might be yeah that like again better off, we're
all fears And then you know, of course with Sophia,
I mean the littles, it was very difficult, but with
(03:13):
Sophia being so aware. You know, at the time, she
was twelve years old, so she's going through so much
on her own. And to feel like I wasn't going
to be there if she needed me. You know that
your mom needs you, or you need your mom in
(03:35):
certain instances, whether it's just a hug or making your
lunches or you know, all the things that a twelve
year old needs. And to know that I wouldn't be
there for her was devastating. But I am so fortunate.
(04:05):
She has an incredible dad, an incredible father, and his
wife is unbelievable and they have two little kids. And
so he stepped up completely when I called and we
said that this is you know, it kind of happened quickly,
of course, and he just stepped up and he said,
(04:27):
she she'll move down here.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Wonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, And so she moved to their home and was
with them for the rest of the school year. And
I have I will have guilt around that forever, in
the sense that she had to uproot her life so quickly.
She's an incredible kid, and you know, she's lived a
(04:52):
life that has changed a lot with Jason's job and
with everything. So she is very adaptable, but it's still
very unfair.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
To her Carly. I just for clarification, and this is
not Jason we're talking about for people who don't know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
J yeah, yeah, right, yep. She was from a different relationship.
And again, her dad is just an incredible person, understanding
and allowed it, just gave me the grace to go
do this and was not hard on me, did not
(05:30):
make me feel guilty, just stepped up wonderful And so
I'm very fortunate for that because I knew she was
in the best spot right like her dad's just as
great as mom, you know, So I was very relieved
that she had that place to go.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I don't want to give away the end of the
movie before we get to the story, but I do
want to do this right now because I think it's
important because somebody out there listening right now might be
on the verge of taking the step that need to
take that you took. As we sit here, how long
has it been since since you got back from treatment?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So I got back beginning of April twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Three, right, so it's been more than a year. Yeah,
as we sit here right now, as bad as that
moment was to leave the kids and be gone, how
grateful are you right now that you did it? How
much better is your life? How much better is their
life right now because you made that decision that day.
You're looking back now at a terribly tough moment. But
let's talk about the result of it as far as
(06:33):
you know it right now. How glad are you that
you did that.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I would do that ten times over. I would choose
that every single time because I am much more of
the mom. You know, I'm not a perfect mom, nobody is.
I am much more of the mother I want to
be to them. I am living life, not just going
(06:55):
through it. My patience and my understanding of emotions with
them and my you know, I was never a yeller
with them, but you know, if they would get upset,
I'd have a hard time engaging with them about it.
Now I just let them be upset with me and
like feel it with them and what I feel like
I'm teaching them through all I learned your treatment and
(07:19):
the work I've done after, I think I can gift
them into dealing with the difficult things. They'll go through
in life.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
What you taught them is that you shouldn't suffer.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, and they yeah, and mom was suffering. And I
think that their lives will be very different and are
very different. And even though there were some negative results
of some of this, I think that they have a
(07:54):
much stronger present mom who's available to them. And you know,
I know with addiction that nothing is guaranteed, but I
am resilient and I am steadfast in the work that
I do to maintain my sobriety.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
That your life is worth five yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and that doing the work for it is worth
it and valuable. So it is. I would do it
even though it was unbelievably hard. I would absolutely do
it again over and over.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Do you want to set an example that life is
suffering and you just have to suffer, or do you
want to set an example that if you're suffering, try
to try to get better.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
If your leg was broken, you go to the doctor.
If you're having issues mentally, you should go to the doctor.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And I guarantee you the kids in the future, someday
when they're older, it could reflect and truly understand would
believe that that time away is worth it.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I've thought this, and I've seen it in practice. With marriages,
people sometimes quote unquote stay together for the kids. And
I'm a proponent, I understand, man, you know, of of
strong family units. But I also am a proponent of
setting an example that says, you only get one life
(09:25):
if you're if you're being mistreated, especially if you're being mistreated,
don't set the example that that's okay. So I would
say this is another great example of that. If you
are suffering, it's you don't have to.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
You don't have to. In fact, it's your job, in
your one little life, to find a way to be better.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And there are resources, you know, And I think that's
where I had missed the boat for so long? Was
you know? I think as an adult, you feel like
you just have to figure it out on your own.
You just have to figure it out. You're a grown up.
And I wasn't figuring it out even though I needed to. Yeah,
(10:07):
and that there are resources out there for people to
help you through these things.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yes, there are, Carly, let's let's go back to going
door to door. Yeah, tell me, as somebody who's not
been to treatment, is there any way to describe what
that's like.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Oh, surreal. I mean it felt I kept thinking, can
I do this? I have to do this. I you know,
it was I was second guessing myself. But I also
had this immense feeling of relief that I had made
(10:48):
that decision. Really, yeah, it was probably the most relief
I've I had felt in years.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Explain that to me if you would, Yeah, like you'd
finally given up.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Like No, it was just that I was I had
finally chosen help. Yeah, I had finally chosen an opportunity
to get help. And that relief was immense. And so
there was this huge piece of me that was like
(11:21):
a deep breath that felt, Okay, you're gonna go get
the help you need. Yeah. And so I chose a
place called Boutaire and it is in Minnesota, southern Minnesota.
And what I loved about it, Opposed to what I
(11:41):
think people should look into when they're if they ever
need treatment, they specialized mental health. They tied mental health
to addiction and substance use. And for me, and I
believe for a lot of people, there's underlying mental health
conditions that can lead to substance abuse and addiction. And
(12:04):
that was a huge piece for me. So I knew
if I just tried to tackle not drinking, that was
never going to last or never going to solve the
problem for me. I needed to address what made me drink,
what I was numbing, what I didn't want to feel,
developed the coping skills I didn't have, and so that's
(12:27):
what I needed. So Bautaire was a place, small place,
forty about forty four other patients clients at the facility,
and it was just it saved my life. That place
saved my life.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Tell me about the physical aspect of not drinking. Did
you suffer with that at all?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Those first three days when I was at MPATH, I
had some elevated blood prentant some things, But I because
I wasn't drinking twenty four to seven for for a
long time, I didn't suffer as many physical consequences because
mine a lot of the times was like binge drinking
at night alone, you know, So I didn't suffer as
(13:15):
many physical symptoms coming out of it as some people do.
But when I got there sober, you know, you can
show up there sober or not to the treatment center,
and I was there sober, and you become vulnerable adults,
and you turn over your phone and you're electronics and
(13:38):
you commit to being there. And I was ready to
put in the work. I wanted to do the work there.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Were you able to let go of the public, Carly.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
I was there, absolutely, But going there one of my
biggest fears, hundred percent. I kept saying to my sister,
she was my mom. Dad and sister drove me there,
and I was so fearful of what would come out.
I was so fearful would people find out I went
to treatment? What do people know about me and Jason?
(14:15):
What is being said on the internet. I mean, granted,
we are not national celebrities. I fully understand that, but
in Minnesota people knew us to some extent in some pockets,
and so I was really worried about the public image
of what was happening, and how can I do this
(14:38):
without people finding out? That's obviously changed, I'm happy to
tell people now. But when I got there, I was
the most myself I've ever been in my life. Through treatment. Wow,
I felt I had never felt like I belonged and
it wasn't anybody else's fault, it was just how I
(15:00):
I felt about me. I never felt I belonged in
the wives room at the hockey Games. I never felt
like I belonged at the fancy events. I never ever
felt like I belonged at certain dinners or experience or
a lot of different things. I never felt like I belonged.
When I went to treatment, I was completely myself, authentically vulnerable,
(15:22):
everything that you could think of at your core, just
raw was who I was there and I found out
I liked that person.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, And that was really special cause like and I
found and like other people liked me, which is like
you made. I made genuine connections with other people who
I could have conversations with that understood deeply what I felt.
(15:53):
And that's what's difficult too, is like we all have
great friends, and we have great family or and people
to talk to, but the conversations you have with the
people in treatment, they deeply understand what you're going through
without judgment. There's no judgment in those walls. We all understand.
(16:15):
And there are people that are seventy in there, and
there are people that are eighteen. It is every diverse
group of people you could imagine in a treatment center,
and you realize, at the core, you're all just wanting
your needs meteah and to cope.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
We're not saying that after the fourth day you were cured. No,
because you were supposed to be there for thirty and
you were there for how long?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I did eighty days of treatment?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Tell me why?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So I ended up doing thirty four days at Bautaire.
I needed. I mean, I I don't move into I
was committed. I was like, I mean, you know, the
external validation jumped in a bed. I was ready to commit.
I was like, I'm going to be the best at
truthment if I convene.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No, So I wanted to do it. So when I
was there, I committed to it and I did the work.
But at the end of those days, what I had
realized was I had not dealt with any of the
trauma specifically. I had addressed a lot of issues, the
current things that were going on. Who I was, you know,
(17:36):
generational trauma, you know you learned. So I was learning
so much there, But what I had not done specifically
there they don't necessarily specialize in it is addressed trauma
and I and so I hadn't done any of that.
So I felt like I had done all this great work.
But if I don't deal with those things specifically, I
(18:00):
am going to either fall back or continue patterns negative patterns,
or I won't have done all the work. I won't
have done everything I can to be the best version
of myself. And so I told one of the counselors that,
(18:20):
and we found a trauma center in Colorado called All
Points North and they specialize in trauma, and so I
decided to go there next. And you know, you know,
our marriage is what it is at this point. But
Jason gave me, just like Jeremy Sophia's dad, gave me
(18:45):
the grace to take as much time as I needed
without guilt. He when I told him about this, because
I was afraid to. He's in season. They are. Everybody's
picked up this slack for me. You know, my family's
his face family. All our families are jumping in to
take care of our kids while he's on the road.
And baby said, you know, it's not easy to juggle
(19:08):
any of that. So to ask then for more time
to go to another facility, I it was more guilt.
It was more should I do this more? You know,
I'm not worthy of this, oh a thousand percent, Like
I don't really need, you know, like I don't really
deserve to go do all of this, and you know
I already did this piece. So but again I had
(19:31):
this deep feeling and after having that sobriety and having
that work that I did at Motaire, I knew this
was a like in my gut, I knew that this
was my next step, and it absolutely was. Again it's
one of those things that I felt like a reflecting
(19:55):
on was absolutely something I would do again. So I
went there for forty six days. And there's no at
all points north that this trauma center, there's no real timeline.
You could go for two weeks, you could go for
ninety days. I mean you could go for a year.
(20:16):
People just their needs are different, right, And so for
me it was forty six days. And I found out
when I went there, because they have they have the
medical equipment, the education, the resources to deal with trauma.
I found out that not only did I feel like
(20:38):
I was living in survival mode, but when you scan
my brain, my prefrontal cortex was barely functioning anymore. I
was living in my brain stem a fight or flight flight.
I was in constant fight or flight mode. So that's
where those reactions were coming from and learning that was
(20:59):
some what of a relief, thinking I'm not crazy. I mean,
I don't have to be this way. This isn't truly
who I am. But I was living in fight or flight,
and I could see it.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
You weren't born malfunctioned.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
We are born and you and I know this of
the light with the light inness we're all of love,
and I deeply believe that. But I was not. I
was living in fight or flight and I could see
that then physically see that, and so I think that
was we're a little bit of a relief almost to learn.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
If you go in and you're sick and the doctor
says you're fine, you go home and you come back
and you say I'm sick and the doctor says you're fine,
and you go home and you come back and the
Dutch says you've got pneumonia. You still have pneumonia. You're
finally like, thank God, we know what's wrong with me now.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yes, it's like yeah, it's when you don't know the
answer to why you feel sack.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
People are telling you there's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Oh, and you're just you just know and we all
know right like you have that that voice in your
head telling you something's not right, and I knew I
knew something wasn't right.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
For clarification, when you left the treatment center bo Botaire, Yeah,
and you went to Colorado, would you say you were
no longer an alcoholic? I'm sorry, it's wrong. Yeah, were you.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Were?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
You passed that part of your problem?
Speaker 1 (22:29):
No, I mean I don't. I will never be pasted
it probably. No, that's not at all. No, I mean
I'm glad that's a that's a great question, because I
think that's a question people would ask. I wasn't feeling
like I wanted to drink, That's what I was saying. Yeah,
So I was not having the desire to drink at
that point. Changed, Yeah, Okay, I was. Again, I was
(22:52):
addressing where mine was coming from, and that for me,
as someone with addiction, was where what I needed, you know,
and again is all over the map, right, so it
all looks different for me. It was needing to address
this mental health and cope with it. At that time.
I think maybe because I knew I was going to
(23:13):
another facility, I didn't feel like I wanted to drink. Yeah,
and so I had no urge to like before I
got on the plane to go there, before I wanted to,
and so I yeah, So I got there and it
was I mean, it was a beautiful experience, and it
(23:34):
was difficult. There's this thing called trauma sweats where it's
they tell you about it where I mean, I was
sweating through the night every night when I was there,
because you're finally facing these things and your body. What
I didn't know what would happen so much through this
(23:55):
experience was how physical it would be for you. And
my body was reacting so much, so I was having
such a physical experience to dealing with these issues. Also,
I had been drinking since I was fourteen, so I
had never really and I mean obviously it wasn't every
(24:17):
day for me, but I had not faced things sober
for a long time. I had not been completely sober
where difficult day, you know, good day, you know, those
trauma conversations. I had to face it without anything, without
a phone to scroll on, without anything to distract me.
(24:38):
I had to just sit in it. Yeah, and to
sit in that is what heals you. But it is
a very very difficult thing.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
The level of discomfort is on par with nothing. I
can't believe. Well, you know, let me look at it
a different way, if you don't mind, Carly, because the
fascinating thing for me is how good your body and
your brain is at protecting you.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Oh, you will build an army for you.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I mean I physically with my trauma. It sounds cliche.
It sounds like I'm writing a story, like I'm living
in a movie. I put that Son of a Bitch
in a box, and I know I did not look
at it. I put it away and I felt ways.
I found ways as a young kid to cope with it,
to live for forty five years. It's amazing. I mean,
(25:41):
it was terrible, ocd was It broke me and then
that led to this, and then that led to that.
I found different addictions, I found different ways to cope.
What I learned was that those that was my brain
and my body keeping me from acknowledging the terrible thing
(26:03):
I went through, which is beautiful. I didn't know how
to cope with that. My body, my little tiny brain.
And I say that because I was a kid, you know,
found a way for me to exist within that. So
it's it's terrible and it broke me in the end,
but it got me through forty years of my life.
You know, isn't it amazing?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah? And I mean clearly neither of us are doctors,
but I can say through what both of us have
learned through. I know the education both of us have
done is that you develop those at such a young age.
I mean you're talking two three one two three. You
start building your army to protect yourself, and the way
(26:47):
you do that will then affect you in your future. Yeah,
good and bad.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And so I had done the same thing. I had
built these protections to make sure that I I wasn't
feeling what I had felt when I was in pain,
But it was there. It's sitting there, just waiting to
come out.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, right right. I can't imagine that there was because
I don't know specifically your trauma, but I can't imagine
that there was a moment for you where it all
came rushing back. So are we talking about a series
of days living in that darkness, remembering and reliving.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, I mean I think it was periodic that those
would happen. And again, I think COVID was where I
started to have it more daily. I was sitting in
it daily.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I'm speaking, I'm sorry, specifically with dealing with it when
you got to this the.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Oh yeah, yeah. The nice thing is that there's levity
in the people you're with and the the activities you
do and being outside. You know. So they do a
wonderful job of creating a safe space and I don't
(28:10):
want to say like a fun space, but you know,
you play cards with people at night, you engage in
great conversations, so you can leave a room after having
a session that is the heaviest thing you could talk about,
and you know, lots of crying and all of that,
and you step outside into a very therapeutic situation. And
(28:34):
that's what they do a very beautiful job of. There
a huge heartfelt thank you for listening. I promise I'm
not going to take this much time at the end
of every episode, but I did want to say a
special thank you to my family and friends who have
picked me up. They've sat with me, walked with me,
(28:56):
kept me going. I am just forever grateful for what
you have invested in me, So thank you. It would
be too long to name all of you, but you
know who you are. A huge thank you to Chris
Hockey for being just an incredible friend. And confidante and
guiding me through this interview today. Dave Plente for filming,
(29:18):
Zach Halverson and Brett Blake Moore for producing. Thank you
all so much for putting this together. You know, please
look for more information on the next episodes we'll be
releasing every Thursday, and they'll be on various topics. We're
going to talk about support systems and what it looks
like to be on the other side and have emotional
(29:38):
conversations with my sister and my family about that, and
then have professionals talk about what that looks like. Child
psychologists will do and ask us anything situation, So we
are going to have a lot to talk about. Please
visit my website Here we Go podcast dot com for
more information as we build this community together, and most importantly,
(30:02):
if you are in crisis, reach out for help at
NAMI dot org or call one eight hundred two seven
three eight two five five. Thanks for listening Here we
Go guys.
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