Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Political advisor Mark McKinnon also a writer colorad and he
is joining us now on the KOA Common Spirit Health hotline.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Mark, good morning, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Good morning Colorado, Chile. Morning this morning for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
And so Mark, it's been about one hundred days since
the second Trump administration started.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How would you evaluate that timeframe so far?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, just what I mean, Donald Trump promised to, you know,
move fast and break things, and he's breaking a lot
of stuff one hundred days. You know, the difference between
this term and the last term is I remember during
the campaign in sixteen, if you were a Republican operative
(00:45):
working in politics and you wanted to work and work
on a presidential campaign and hopefully a successful one, the
eighteenth interview you did was Donald Trump, I mean went
to you went to Jeff Bush or Marco Rubio or
Chris Christy. That was the last interview you did because
you thought there's no way this guy's going to be president,
and he didn't even think he was going to win.
So he brought in what you described as a lot
(01:07):
of broken toys. This time around, he knew what he
you know, he knew what was coming, and he has
a lot of you know, people around him now who
are committed mostly to him and are loyal to him,
and so they had a plan coming in and this time,
you know, they are executing at lightning speed and creating
(01:28):
a lot of chaos, which is as you know, that's
kind of Donald trump'sdenna. It's it's been interesting for me,
particularly because I just got back from the twenty fifth
reunion of the George W. Bush campaign, which I worked
on in the year in two thousand and it was
very bittersweet because we celebrated and popped the champagne and
(01:49):
we never got to do because we had a runoff
and a recount and everybody spread across the country, so
we never got that you know, high five, hug each
other moment until just a couple of weeks ago. But
also it was a bittersweet because thinking about all the
things that we've lost that we built, that George Bush
worked for, and so you know, that's what we call
(02:11):
compassionate conservatism, and there's there's not a lot of compassion
in the current version, which I miss.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
So I want to go there for a minute mark
because I would say, has conservatism changed or is what
the Trump administration doing really conservatism? What has shifted in
the twenty five years since you were working for George W. Bush.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Well, it's completely different. I mean, it's not what we
would have called conservatism twenty five years ago at all.
I mean, one of the reasons that I joined the
Republican Party was because I was a really radical free
trader and I didn't like what the Democrats were doing
on the trade side, which is exactly what Donald Trump
was doing now on steroids. The conservativeism meant you stood
(02:53):
up to authoritarian governments around the world. So those sorts
of things that we you know, I don't recognize the
Republican Party today, and I wouldn't describe it as conservatism.
It's you know, it's a kind of radical populism, I guess,
or you know, others might describe it differently, but it's
he has reshaped the Republican Party. And a lot of
(03:16):
people would say that's a good thing. You know, as
I said, I missed the compassionate component of it. But
others say, there was a lot about, you know, the
world under former Republicans that needed to be changed, and
you know, to to his credit, you could say that
Donald Trump has has kind of taken away from the
Democratic Party of the old working class that was, you know,
(03:37):
that was so much a part of the Democratic Party.
I mean, a big part of the coalition under Donald
Trump right now is a working class. And so for
Democrats to win back the White House and you know,
in the Senate and the Congress, they need to to,
I think, reclaim the working class in America.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And how would speaking of the Democratic Party, Mark, how
would you grade what they're doing as far as the
opposition to the policies of President Trump.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Well, you know, people are hyper critical of the Democrats,
and a lot of that is deserved. I mean, a
lot of mistakes were made and that then there was
a lot of sort of elitism that you know, look
down on voters and and that's why they lost a
lot of the working class. But I think that listen, people,
I think a big part of the pendulum swings hard
(04:24):
in politics, and it always does, and I think it
will if Trump continues on this path, particularly on the
economic front with the tariffs, which I think are going
to ruin the economy, and I think to some extent,
the message will be just not what they did. That
that may be enough. But I also think that you know,
I always learned the most in politics from losing campaigns
(04:45):
and not from winning campaigns, because when you lose, you
never want to do that again. That's a terrible feeling.
And so I say that in politics, you spend enough
time in the desert, you learn to find water, and
Democrats are learning to find water. But the other thing
it also takes is Moses to lead you out of
the desert. And I don't know who Mosses will be
this time around for the Democrats, but that's part of
(05:06):
the process. And you know, over the next couple of years,
I think we'll see some people emerge that well, you know,
I think given the weightings are going right now as
it terms arend, particularly on the economy, it'll be a
competitive race in the midterms in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Mark, do you get a little bothered when people say
you're a rhino now because of where you stand politically
in a sense of if you are an old guard,
as you say, conservative, but the party has shifted or
the electorate has shifted. But do you feel like, why
am I getting my bona fides challenged when I am
what people classically call conservative, the old thing? I guess
(05:40):
as Reagan said about the Democrats. I didn't leave the
Democratic Party, they left me. Do you feel the same
way about your party?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah? I really do. And like I say, I mean,
I'm just amazed when, for example, I'll meet someone and
I'm just and somehow it comes up what I did
in my past, and I worked for not only Bush,
but I work for McCain, and I'll mention their names,
and they just sneer at me as if, you know,
as if they tho you know, was I worked for
(06:07):
people who you know, were the devil and these these
are these are Republicans today. And and you know, John
McCain and George W. Bush were two of the finest
people I've ever met in my wife, and I was
honored to serve them. So to think that, you know,
not only has there are their policies passed, but just
(06:27):
you know, just that they were honorable patriots that cared
about character and decency, integrity, And you know the theme
of our campaign in two thousand was to return honor
and integrity at the White House. And it's just like
those things don't really matter anymore. And so listen, but
I you know, I recognize that that that the party
has changed and it's it's left me and so, you know,
(06:51):
kind of put leaves me in a lot of folks
on an island. I'm not sure what to do anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And to have just a few seconds left. Mark a
quick question on Collerratto politics. What do you make of
Senator Michael Bennett's decision to run for Colorado governor.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I love Michael Bennett, I mean, and that's you know,
I loving home in Colorado. I left for most of
my adult life and lived in Austin, Texas and DC
and New York and practice politics and media for years.
But this is and I'm glad I'm not Texas anymore
because Texas has changed radically too. I worked for Anne
Richards when she was governor, went back when I was
(07:28):
a Democrat, so it's completely changing and it's not a
particularly welcoming place for people of my strike these days there,
but it is here. Colorado is a super purple state.
I love the kind of centrist. I'm a radical centrist,
and I like Hick and Looper. I like, you know,
I like the current governor, and I think I think
Michael Bennett make a terrific governor. I mean, I think
(07:48):
he just again Bennett is just the kind of guy
who's very I think, very centrist, very calm, very reasonable,
and just the sort of person who would be a
great governor for Colorado.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Since you mentioned that we had Michael Bennan on with us.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
But but Mark, because of how blue Colorado is, does
it give you concern that there hasn't been at least
so far that we've seen, there's been ten people on
the Republican side. They are nominated, but somebody could that
could make things, make Colorado more purple again and not
being so locked down in one party rule.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, I think that's what Michael Bennett represents. I mean,
I do think that he is, you know, very in this,
you know, like Paula says, if you know, very business friendly,
like Hick and Looper. I think those guys, you know,
they're they're seen as as you know, by the progressive
wing of the party is you know that they would
call them super conservative, and you know, I just think
(08:40):
that's that's kind of very much where Colorado is these days,
and I like it.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Mark McKinnon, you can he mentioned that twenty fifth reunion
of the George W. Bush staffers. He wrote an article
about it at vanity fair dot com. Make sure to
check that out. Mark as always, thanks so much for
joining us.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Hey, thanks kick it hard gerry On regardless
Political advisor Mark McKinnon also a writer colorad and he
is joining us now on the KOA Common Spirit Health hotline.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Mark, good morning, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Good morning Colorado, Chile. Morning this morning for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
And so Mark, it's been about one hundred days since
the second Trump administration started.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How would you evaluate that timeframe so far?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, just what I mean, Donald Trump promised to, you know,
move fast and break things, and he's breaking a lot
of stuff one hundred days. You know, the difference between
this term and the last term is I remember during
the campaign in sixteen, if you were a Republican operative
(00:45):
working in politics and you wanted to work and work
on a presidential campaign and hopefully a successful one, the
eighteenth interview you did was Donald Trump, I mean went
to you went to Jeff Bush or Marco Rubio or
Chris Christy. That was the last interview you did because
you thought there's no way this guy's going to be president,
and he didn't even think he was going to win.
So he brought in what you described as a lot
(01:07):
of broken toys. This time around, he knew what he
you know, he knew what was coming, and he has
a lot of you know, people around him now who
are committed mostly to him and are loyal to him,
and so they had a plan coming in and this time,
you know, they are executing at lightning speed and creating
(01:28):
a lot of chaos, which is as you know, that's
kind of Donald trump'sdenna. It's it's been interesting for me,
particularly because I just got back from the twenty fifth
reunion of the George W. Bush campaign, which I worked
on in the year in two thousand and it was
very bittersweet because we celebrated and popped the champagne and
(01:49):
we never got to do because we had a runoff
and a recount and everybody spread across the country, so
we never got that you know, high five, hug each
other moment until just a couple of weeks ago. But
also it was a bittersweet because thinking about all the
things that we've lost that we built, that George Bush
worked for, and so you know, that's what we call
(02:11):
compassionate conservatism, and there's there's not a lot of compassion
in the current version, which I miss.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
So I want to go there for a minute mark
because I would say, has conservatism changed or is what
the Trump administration doing really conservatism? What has shifted in
the twenty five years since you were working for George W. Bush.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Well, it's completely different. I mean, it's not what we
would have called conservatism twenty five years ago at all.
I mean, one of the reasons that I joined the
Republican Party was because I was a really radical free
trader and I didn't like what the Democrats were doing
on the trade side, which is exactly what Donald Trump
was doing now on steroids. The conservativeism meant you stood
(02:53):
up to authoritarian governments around the world. So those sorts
of things that we you know, I don't recognize the
Republican Party today, and I wouldn't describe it as conservatism.
It's you know, it's a kind of radical populism, I guess,
or you know, others might describe it differently, but it's
he has reshaped the Republican Party. And a lot of
(03:16):
people would say that's a good thing. You know, as
I said, I missed the compassionate component of it. But
others say, there was a lot about, you know, the
world under former Republicans that needed to be changed, and
you know, to to his credit, you could say that
Donald Trump has has kind of taken away from the
Democratic Party of the old working class that was, you know,
(03:37):
that was so much a part of the Democratic Party.
I mean, a big part of the coalition under Donald
Trump right now is a working class. And so for
Democrats to win back the White House and you know,
in the Senate and the Congress, they need to to,
I think, reclaim the working class in America.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And how would speaking of the Democratic Party, Mark, how
would you grade what they're doing as far as the
opposition to the policies of President Trump.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Well, you know, people are hyper critical of the Democrats,
and a lot of that is deserved. I mean, a
lot of mistakes were made and that then there was
a lot of sort of elitism that you know, look
down on voters and and that's why they lost a
lot of the working class. But I think that listen, people,
I think a big part of the pendulum swings hard
(04:24):
in politics, and it always does, and I think it
will if Trump continues on this path, particularly on the
economic front with the tariffs, which I think are going
to ruin the economy, and I think to some extent,
the message will be just not what they did. That
that may be enough. But I also think that you know,
I always learned the most in politics from losing campaigns
(04:45):
and not from winning campaigns, because when you lose, you
never want to do that again. That's a terrible feeling.
And so I say that in politics, you spend enough
time in the desert, you learn to find water, and
Democrats are learning to find water. But the other thing
it also takes is Moses to lead you out of
the desert. And I don't know who Mosses will be
this time around for the Democrats, but that's part of
(05:06):
the process. And you know, over the next couple of years,
I think we'll see some people emerge that well, you know,
I think given the weightings are going right now as
it terms arend, particularly on the economy, it'll be a
competitive race in the midterms in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Mark, do you get a little bothered when people say
you're a rhino now because of where you stand politically
in a sense of if you are an old guard,
as you say, conservative, but the party has shifted or
the electorate has shifted. But do you feel like, why
am I getting my bona fides challenged when I am
what people classically call conservative, the old thing? I guess
(05:40):
as Reagan said about the Democrats. I didn't leave the
Democratic Party, they left me. Do you feel the same
way about your party?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Yeah? I really do. And like I say, I mean,
I'm just amazed when, for example, I'll meet someone and
I'm just and somehow it comes up what I did
in my past, and I worked for not only Bush,
but I work for McCain, and I'll mention their names,
and they just sneer at me as if, you know,
as if they tho you know, was I worked for
(06:07):
people who you know, were the devil and these these
are these are Republicans today. And and you know, John
McCain and George W. Bush were two of the finest
people I've ever met in my wife, and I was
honored to serve them. So to think that, you know,
not only has there are their policies passed, but just
(06:27):
you know, just that they were honorable patriots that cared
about character and decency, integrity, And you know the theme
of our campaign in two thousand was to return honor
and integrity at the White House. And it's just like
those things don't really matter anymore. And so listen, but
I you know, I recognize that that that the party
has changed and it's it's left me and so, you know,
(06:51):
kind of put leaves me in a lot of folks
on an island. I'm not sure what to do anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And to have just a few seconds left. Mark a
quick question on Collerratto politics. What do you make of
Senator Michael Bennett's decision to run for Colorado governor.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I love Michael Bennett, I mean, and that's you know,
I loving home in Colorado. I left for most of
my adult life and lived in Austin, Texas and DC
and New York and practice politics and media for years.
But this is and I'm glad I'm not Texas anymore
because Texas has changed radically too. I worked for Anne
Richards when she was governor, went back when I was
(07:28):
a Democrat, so it's completely changing and it's not a
particularly welcoming place for people of my strike these days there,
but it is here. Colorado is a super purple state.
I love the kind of centrist. I'm a radical centrist,
and I like Hick and Looper. I like, you know,
I like the current governor, and I think I think
Michael Bennett make a terrific governor. I mean, I think
(07:48):
he just again Bennett is just the kind of guy
who's very I think, very centrist, very calm, very reasonable,
and just the sort of person who would be a
great governor for Colorado.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Since you mentioned that we had Michael Bennan on with us.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
But but Mark, because of how blue Colorado is, does
it give you concern that there hasn't been at least
so far that we've seen, there's been ten people on
the Republican side. They are nominated, but somebody could that
could make things, make Colorado more purple again and not
being so locked down in one party rule.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, I think that's what Michael Bennett represents. I mean,
I do think that he is, you know, very in this,
you know, like Paula says, if you know, very business friendly,
like Hick and Looper. I think those guys, you know,
they're they're seen as as you know, by the progressive
wing of the party is you know that they would
call them super conservative, and you know, I just think
(08:40):
that's that's kind of very much where Colorado is these days,
and I like it.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Mark McKinnon, you can he mentioned that twenty fifth reunion
of the George W. Bush staffers. He wrote an article
about it at vanity fair dot com. Make sure to
check that out. Mark as always, thanks so much for
joining us.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Hey, thanks kick it hard gerry On regardless
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