October 21, 2021 • 39 mins
You may know Ben Barnes from Westworld, Shadow and Bone, Chronicles of Narnia, Dorian Gray and more! But you will soon know him as a singer song writer! You won’t want to miss this amazing conversation between Sammy Jaye and Ben Barnes - they talk about his love of acting, sharing his true self through his music, the journey of his career, dealing with rejection and much more!
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi guys, and welcome back to this week's episode of
the Lesbi Real Podcast. I'm Sammy J. Today I got
to chat with Ben Barnes. He's an incredible actor. You
may have seen him in The West World, Shadow and Bone,
Chronicles of Narnia, and much more. Ben. Actually, you just
came out with an EP called Songs for You, and
(00:21):
I genuinely love this EP. It brings me happiness when
I listened to it. It is so soulful. Ben. If
you're listening, thank you so much for coming on my podcast.
I really enjoyed this conversation, and I know all of
you will too. I hope you guys enjoy Ben. Welcome
to my podcast. I'm so excited we take it this out.
(00:42):
Thank you for having me, Sammy. I have to say
your EP, Songs for You, I'm obsessed. And I'm not
just saying that because here's the thing. When a lot
of people go into music, they generally do the basic
pop standard, nothing really original with it. But I got
(01:04):
some Michael Boublet vibes, I got a little bit of
Queen in there, and it's just it feeds my soul.
That is the best review I will ever get it
feeds my soul. That's what I was going for. Well,
you nailed it. That's what music does for me. Though.
I think growing up particularly like Queen is like the
sound of me being ten and twelve and fifteen and forty.
(01:30):
But also like all those like those like Ray, Charles
and James all that, all that kind of mood music
is like everything that I aspire to be and feel.
And I love all that wrap pack stuff as well,
Christmas music, all that, all of that stuff that's like
(01:50):
nourishes your soul, like you say, And so I was
just trying to I didn't quite know what my music
would exactly sound like. I didn't have an exact thing
in my head, but I knew I wanted to like
sprinkle a little bit of all of their gold dust
into my cauldron and see what was spat out the
other side. Yeah, well let's get into that. You almost
(02:12):
put up music like twenty years ago, and now you're
coming back around to it. Why didn't you then? And
what makes you go back to it now? Um? So,
I think it's a few things. When I was nineteen,
I signed to a music manager and I was singing
some jazz stuff and it didn't kind of pan out
the way that I hoped it would. It was the
very first year that any of those like Pop Idol
(02:32):
American Idol shows came out, and that just took over,
and that was the only music thing anyone was interested in,
and my dreams kind of slipped through my fingers like
sand and and I kind of got a bit disillusion
with it and thought, maybe this isn't what I'm supposed
to be doing. But I wasn't really writing my own stuff.
I was doing impressions of Sinatra that can Coal or
(02:56):
or Stevie Wonder or I would do tribute concerts and
soul nights and all those things when I was in
high school and stuff. But it was never like me, me, me, me,
And I didn't know like what I wanted to sound
like or what I really wanted to say. And and
I think after being kind of disillusioned like that, the
thought of writing my own songs and putting them out
(03:17):
just I got a little bit um. I think I
was just a little bit fearful of what the judgment
of that would be, not having complete confidence myself what
that would sound like. And if I did know what
it sounds like, sounded like what what would I want
to say? And I think it just takes some of
us sometimes a little bit longer to make good on
(03:38):
our deals with ourselves that think the promises we make
ourselves that will prioritize this or do this in our lives.
And I think during the pandemic, I spent a lot
of time talking in my head to like the eight
year old version of myself saying I didn't who didn't
like totally we all had these crises of identity. But
(04:00):
I was speaking to grand Pappy Barnes saying, like what
do I what do I? You know you're you're going
to regret not doing this in your life. There's no thing,
there's nothing to be afraid of, Like, there's nothing like
anyone who would judge it negatively. I'm not particularly interested
in those people in life. And it might put a
(04:22):
smile on someone's face. And honestly, two days after I
put out my first song, there was this There was
this video this I think it was a TikTok of
this girl dancing in her kitchen, smiling, spinning around listening
to my song, and I was like, this video alone
is worth making the album for. This is like I'm
so happy to watching this right now, and then people
were doing like pole dancing and like ice skating routines
(04:46):
to it, and like it's like talk about feed your soul, Like, yeah,
that did it for me. It's like you miss all
the shots you don't take. And I think putting yourself
out there can be really scary and vulnerable, especially as
an actor when people see you your different characters, you
haven't put yourself out there, and putting out your music
is putting yourself out there without any mask. What has
(05:08):
that been like stepping into yourself in this new time
of your life. Yeah, it's it's it's that's very astute.
And that's exactly you know. I feel like I've been
nudging myself towards this for the twenty years of my career,
where I look at a character and I try and
syringe pieces of myself into it, and I try and
(05:28):
make make those characters, even if they're like psycho killers
or like, you know, as far from me as you
could possibly get. I tried to find a little piece
of myself that I can just butter that toast with,
just to just to make it feel honest and grounded
and truthful. Um, but but I think it just it
(05:49):
just became time for me to offer something into the
world that was more innately and purely and authentically just
from me, um and about me, and and that's what
this and that's what this songs for you EP became.
And that's what's so beautiful. I feel like everyone came
to their own realization during the pandemic, whether that was
(06:12):
finding a new passion or coming across the passion that
they forgot they had. Was there a specific moment you're like, Okay,
I have to do music, or was it like a
continuing thing where you just kind of happened. I think
it's always been a continuing thing. Like I've always had
like notebooks that I've written, like little phrases people say,
or little things that rhyme in my head or something
I've read somewhere, and I'll often like type that on
(06:33):
my phone and then put it in a notebook. And um,
you know, I spent hours sitting at my little at
my piano there and kind of not that I really
know anything about music, but I'll just move my fingers
around until it sounds scrunchy to me, and it sounds
like a feeling that I've had, so it was a
little bit painstaking from that perspective, but um, yeah, it was.
(06:56):
As I say, it's it's always been something that I
wanted to do, but the pandemic really really sped up
and rushed through that feeling of if if not now,
when like, you don't want to regret not don't want
to regret not doing this, and so it just became
very clear to me and that was very freeing that
that really like released me. Like when you put out music,
it's called a release, and it feels like I've dropped something,
(07:18):
I've let go of this like expectation of myself to
do this, and you know, and the really beautiful thing
is no one can ever take it away from me,
like I am forever now a songwriter and a singer
and a musician. You have that title now. And I
think one of the great things about just like I
know that feeling, like for me, that's releasing the podcast.
(07:38):
When we're planning a season and it's releasing it, I'm like,
oh my god, Okay, it's out in the world. People
can interpret it in any way that you want, but
you did your job and that's all you can do.
And if you're happy with it. That's what matters. You
made this and no one can unmake it. Exactly exactly
where did your passion for music start? My passion enthusic
(07:59):
I think my dad probably he was playing. He would
play like all these seventies rock bands like the Stones
and the Beatles and the Who and the Eagles and
Queen and just all these brilliant bands. Would you know,
when he was at home, he would be he would
be blasting those um. And so I think that's probably
where it started. And then I would like root around
in the back of his vinyls and find the and
(08:19):
find the raychels, and I'd find that, you know, the
rat pack stuff and like all of that stuff that
he had but didn't play as often. Um. And then
when I was just when I was in school, I
would play the drums in like big bands. My first
ever job, when I was fifteen, I played the drums
in a West End London production of Bugsy Malone. That's awesome. Um.
(08:43):
And I've never honestly, I've done a lot of things
in my life that other people might think we're exciting,
but I've never felt cooler than when I would, like
in the middle of a class on like a Wednesday,
because we'd have a matinee at like eleven o'clock in
the morning. I stand up and be like, sorry, yeah,
I've got to go. I've got a job being a
(09:04):
drummer in the in the West end of you to
go be a musician right now, in the middle of
a class, to stand up and grab your drumsticks and
be like, peace out. I have never felt cooler than that. Yeah, yeah,
because I wasn't cool and I didn't feel seen and
I didn't feel like like I felt totally invisible, I
think when I was at school and so so I
(09:26):
think like, just to have that moment of saying this
is something that I do that you don't know about,
I felt really good. I totally agree high school was
not it for me. I am very glad to be
out of it. If you're in high school and you're listening, no,
it is temporary. It gets better. It gets so much better.
And I heard people say that to me, but I
didn't believe it, but I wish I did, because I
(09:48):
still don't understand those people who say, oh, yeah, school
was the best best days of my life. And I
can understand maybe if you were like the high school
quarterback and like you were the king of everything. I
can understand in high school though, like who wants to
peak and eyes? Well I don't, but I can understand
those people saying that was there there, you know they
remember it's really fondly or whatever. But but no, you're right, No,
(10:11):
I'm playing a long game here. I will say that
high school musical did me dirty because I thought going
into high school I would be like all these cute
boys and then no, it's like all these pre pubous
and eighth graders like all joining what you think. But
that's because when when you watch films when you're fifteen,
that those those actors are twenty five. Okay, why don't
(10:34):
people cast like the actual eight I don't know, but
I looked so young when I was seventeen, I looked
about fourteen, and so I could never have played the age.
And then when I was twenty five, I got cast
in this pilot on the c W called Split Decision,
which never made it to air. But it was kind
of like that movie Sliding Doors, like it's saw um
(10:57):
it saw like a girl's first day of high school
too different ways, and like depending on whether she sat
with the cool kids or like the nerds like it
would see how her life went. And I was I
was the jock, the quarterback. My name was Chris Kinkaid,
and I had like a like a letter's jacket. But
I was like twenty two or something out twenty three,
(11:20):
something like that. I can't quite remember, but I was
definitely thinking, Ah, now I'm cool enough to be seventeen. Yeah,
it's you know, you've said it so perfectly. That's the
thing about movies and TV shows. It just gives you
a false sense of what life is like in some ways.
But you know, I will say something that I think
is super interesting is you've played a lot of villains. Um,
(11:42):
you don't seem like a very Yeah, you don't seem
like a very villainous person. You seem very nice. You
do look scary in her. But the thing is, I
think what's so interesting is in your more recent projects,
it's often in a very dystopian world. You know, it's
in a different universe and it's an escape. And music
does the same thing. So I'm curious what draws you
(12:04):
to kind of that escape bism to put your worries away,
whether that's in acting, or in music. So so I
think there's two things. One one is that I do
love that escapeist stuff and I'm just a big fan
of like fantasy stuff and it's just storytelling. I love
to escape into series and stuff. I am an unabashed
(12:24):
like binger of TV and movies. What's your best binge?
I mean everything, test me, I will. I mean, like
I just finished a good game, I haven't seen it yet. Well,
then I win because in the first, the first one
we've mentioned. Can I tell you why I think I
win this one? Because I watched Breaking Bad in nine days.
(12:47):
Oh oh, I see what you mean by your best binge? Um,
six seasons over forty five minutes. It was my big
It was like the beginning of the pandemic. I was like,
I'm gonna do it. That is that is that is
actually that is actually credible. Um. Yeah, I'm impressed. I'm
trying to think what my best bringers are. I'm sure
I did some seasons of Um, what have I done
(13:12):
really quickly? I'm sure back in the day, I did
some seasons of twenty four or something like that very fast.
I'm sure. I'm sure I probably tried to do it
in twenty four hours and failed epically. But yeah, I've
definitely had a few of those. But I think so
I love all the escapism, but the main draw I
think of those things and the reason that I've sort
of been um I think anyway, I kind of found
(13:34):
myself this little niche of like villains but not really
villains like humans. Yeah you've answered my God, damn you,
damn samny j you you've answered my my answer before
I've done it. But yeah, I like my my quest
in life, whether it's songwriting or just like the way
I have friendships and the way I connect with people
(13:58):
is always about like trying to eat all the sides
of it and you know, just empathy and human and
and so when I see these characters, I'm like, Okay,
so on West World, my character, this guy's a douche bag.
But why And then you find out in the second
season that actually he's had this very strange relationship with
his dad and doesn't feel like he's loved and is
(14:19):
acting out like a baby, you know, and we all
have this like Russian doll of ourselves, Like I think,
like the teenager, the strappy teenager that we were, and
the love that Russian dollar of yourselves. It's so right
like that, I see what you're saying though this you know,
the hangry baby and the strappy teenager, and then the
like adventurous twenty year old and the like you know,
(14:41):
trying to be more majorre than you are thirty year old,
and then this slightly more together for your like, we
we gather these things together and they never go away.
And then when we're tired or or stressed or whatever,
like these these things like like they they kind of
come out on us. And I just think all people
have the power to be every thing and the capacity
(15:01):
to feel everything. And so when I get these villainous
kind of characters, I'm interested in telling those stories about hope.
And if I'm the obstacle, that's that's that's how I
fit into the story. But I want to find those
little ways that I can humanize. And you know, if
if the character is scary, where is where is he vulnerable?
(15:22):
And if the character is cold, what what can make
him feel warm? Um? You know, if the character is
is tense, where do we see those little moments of
him relax? You know, I think I think I'm always
trying to look at things from two sides, and I
think that's what I'm trying to do with my music
as well. It's very interesting. I'm in film school, by
(15:42):
the way, are you amazing? Yes, So I'm learning about
just directing camera and goes and all the stuff, and
I find it so fascinating the ways you can tell
a story and how you can do that without even words.
You can just do that through cinematography totally. What would
you say your most impactful moment you've had on set?
(16:03):
I think there's there are so many. Um. I think
it's always actually useful to think about the moments in
which you feel like you failed a bit, because then
you can look back and see how much you've grown.
And I think I think I remember being quite overwhelmed
on the first Narnia movie and looking at these incredible
sets and costumes and you know, stunt departments and you know,
hundreds of extras on horses, and it's just this overwhelmingly
(16:27):
wonderful life event for me. But I remember there was
a scene where I was supposed to be kind of
melancholy and the director sort of said, oh, what's your
sort of process to get into this? And I don't
know if I even really had one at that point,
like I didn't know enough about what I was doing,
(16:47):
and I felt a little bit ashamed that I couldn't
sort of I wasn't giving them him what he wanted.
And I think now, you know, fifteen years, twenty years
later or whatever, like I I've sort of pride myself
on being able to put myself into any situation and
feel any human emotion and convey that. Um, but it's
(17:09):
something that I've worked on really, really hard over a
long period of time. So I think, um, you know,
just being being challenged, I think is probably the key
moments where and and actually the kind of direction that
I love from a director is once they've sort of
once you've sort of gone a trust, if they'd just
come up to you and sort of say I don't
(17:31):
believe you. You know, it's just a very simple piece
of challenging direction because then you're like, Okay, in this take,
I must tell the truth, or in this take, I
must really listen to what they're saying, or something very
specific like that. I think if you take one thing
into the way that you're doing something, often like everything
else then just slots into place. Okay, we have to
take a quick break, but when we come back, I
(17:52):
want to talk more about acting, specifically the auditioning process,
your new EP, and much more will be right back. Yeah,
something that is very interesting they want to bring up
with you is I have a lot of friends that
are actors, and something that I've realized is the job
(18:15):
is auditioning, Like that is the full time job. And
then when you get cast, that's great, But the full
time job is auditioning and oftentimes rejection um and that
can be really hard, especially when it's constant, and if
you're in an industry when they're like thousands of you. Essentially,
how have you dealt with that throughout your career and
what advice do you have for people who are listening
that want to get into acting or are but they're
(18:38):
coming back with just rejections after audition and audition. I mean,
I think there's no way around that. You have to
develop a bit of a thick skin with it. And
it doesn't stop at auditions, you know. I there are
films that I did earlier in my Creator which the
response was so critical and negative and poisonous, and you
have to develop a bit of a thick skin and
remember why you love it, and remember why you keep pushing,
(19:01):
and remember why you you kind of hang in there. Um.
I think with auditions it's about reframing it to an
opportunity for you to show them what you would do
with this material. You look at these words, and remember
that only you'll only really ever get cast in anything
because you're you, not because of some magic tricks circus
(19:25):
trick that you'll pull off. Yes, maybe if you can
do a certain skill or do a certain accent, that
will help. But actually they've got something in mind when
you walk in. But everyone who watches you walk into
the room wants it to be you. They want to
find the person. So if you come in with all
of your you, all of your essence, all of like
what you took from these words and you it's a
(19:46):
it's an opportunity for you to present what you make
of of what you've read, basically, and and if you
leave that in there, then then you can never have
any regret about what you offered them. And if they
did choose it, it's you know, it's it's simply because
they had a different idea of what it was, not
because of anything you did or didn't do. Um. Trying
(20:09):
to please other people is never going to be the
way forward. It's going to be the thing that it's
going to be. Do it the way that you want
to do it. And if you keep doing that, eventually
someone that you know, someone will respond to that. It's
about you know, so it's about sort of authenticity. I
think something people people respond to something that feels honest.
But you know, there's no way around it. It's it's
(20:30):
an industry that you have to do, develop a little
bit of a thick skin and sort of somebody once
told me, you walk walk into the room, no, you know,
believing that that job is yours, and walk out of
the room knowing that it's not. And then it will
always be this like incredible surprise if you do get
the job, but you won't ever be like gutted to
(20:52):
your core. But having said that, there are always those
few jobs that you've auditioned for which you're just like,
how did I not get that job? Is there a
movie that you wish you were in? And if so,
what character what do you have played? It could be
a classic, it could be a more recent one. Oh
my god, there are some, I mean, I'm sure there
(21:12):
are I'm sure there are so many. Um, I will
tell you the one that I will tell you the
one that stung for me many many, many years ago.
I did about ten auditions for a film called Across
the Universe, which was a Beatles movie, and Evan rachel
Wood started it with Jim Sturgis and Evan rachel Wood
then was in West World, and I remember telling her,
(21:34):
you know, many many years later, like I wanted I
wanted to be in that film with you so badly
because it was singing Beetles and the Beatles too. It
was singing Beatles songs in a movie. It was just unbelievable.
And when I've done sort of ten auditions for it,
it was just crushing to not get that one. Um
but um, you know, so there are always going to
(21:55):
be a few which kind of which kind of sting.
But then you look at all the things you did
do and the collectively made you who you are. It's,
you know, do you think you're going to be prioritizing
music over acting going forward? Are you going to find
a balance between the two. So interesting you said prioritizing
because that's actually one of the reasons I did it
was because it was pointed out to me that your
(22:15):
priorities are the things that you actually prioritize, not the
things that you tell people are your priorities, because those
are just like the ways you want to be seen, like,
you know, because I remember some I said, oh, my
priorities are you know, playing more music, My priorities are
you know, having a family doing this at the end,
and I think, and I think it might have been
(22:37):
my mom who said, um, well, no, your priorities are
your work and your friends and your family and those things,
because those are the things that you actually spend all
of your time on off and the other things are
just like ways that you want to see yourself and
the things that you aspire to spend more time on,
but they're not your priorities. And that was a real
like spin around moment for me of I need to
(23:00):
start prioritizing the things that I think that I want
to make my priorities. Otherwise they won't I'll let they
you know, I'll look back and they won't have been
my priorities. So I think that's an important word. You know,
what you prioritize, But I think no, I mean I
prioritize my my acting and my job and the thing
that makes me feel like me. But but I love
(23:23):
music so much and I always have and it's always
been such a huge part of my life, just not
in a sort of more public sharing kind of way,
but I love that feeling of sharing it so far
at least, and so I definitely want to do more
of it and try and find a balance and try
and find a way to keep keep doing it like this,
because um, it feels, honestly, even just this, doing this
(23:45):
chat with you now, like it feels so much better
to be talking about the way I really see things,
rather than a script that I didn't write and just
promoting something because you have to, but something that you
actually created, and that's what's so beautiful about it. Made
yeah exactly. Okay, I have to ask, Yes, you're a
very private person, which I think is so important, especially
(24:07):
nowadays because everything is put out there sometimes too much,
you could argue, and in your music it's very honest
and heartfelt and authentic. What has that been like so far?
Just a response and sharing your life and your thoughts
and your feelings when you haven't had before. Well, I
think part of it is by virtue of you know,
(24:28):
when I was young, journalists would sort of say, if
you want to be an actor, you have to answer
these kind of questions about this that the other. And
I think that it's really important to draw that personal
line for yourself. And it's different for everyone, and that's
actually completely okay, but different for everyone what you want
to share about your life in the same way that
everyone is in control of their own Instagram. You can
pretend your life is as as cool and sexy as
you like, but it might not make you very happy.
(24:50):
And I think that you know, my mom is a
is a you know, like a sex and relationship psychotherapist,
and she was always you know, teaching the importance of
having your kind of particularly romantic relationships, but even your
like friendship and stuff. They're they're yours and they are
you know, they are your support system when the world feels,
(25:10):
you know, it should be you against the world, not
not kind of you. If you offer up everything that
you are publicly, then and then everything that you are
publicly is up for scrutiny and up for criticism, and
and then you've got nowhere to lean because they've all
been a part of it. And I think that so
that that became created to me quite early on. But actually,
as I get older, I realized that, you know, ship,
(25:33):
what you do with music is you share it. What
you do with stories is you tell them and you
share them. And I think that the things that have
made me feel void and and and comforted in times
when I've been low is realizing that everyone feels the
same things pretty much. Um, the lows feel the same
kind of low. You know, anger feels the same, guilt
(25:56):
feels the same, misery feels the same for everyone. So
so UM being able to understand that everyone feels those things,
and everyone is confused, and everyone is like trying to
see things from me, you know, other people's perspectives in
the same way that struggle is the same. And I
think that there's no I realized there is absolutely no
harm in sharing a little bit more of that about
(26:16):
myself and trying to be encouraging. And actually I'm a
very hopeful person. So all my songs are have an
element of hope in them, and so you know, to
bring a bit of that hopefulness and joyfulness and soulfulness
to my characters and also to the songs. If you
can get someone dancing in the kitchen then or if
you can get someone like crying to it with a
(26:37):
cocoa because of something that's happened in their life, that's
all good too. And I think that's one of the
things that is so important and something that I unintentionally
am trying to do with this podcast is that something
I realized just starting is how the media has taken
the human out of the person and how you read
a headline and they become a figure that is on pedestal,
(26:58):
but they're they don't cry, They're like, they're just not
a human being with a heart and that bleeds. And
I think that's what's so great about you sharing more
with your music is that you're letting people back in
on you that you are a human totally. And I
want people to understand that because my humanness is actually
probably I think the best thing about me, exactly like
(27:19):
your flaws and everything it makes you you. Um, So
I wouldn't mind people sharing, sharing that and knowing that.
But I can't begin to tell you how many people
that I know personally that I've met that are in
the public eye that are just so entirely misunderstood and
so entirely misjudged by virtue of how people are keen
to portray them because they feel a certain you know,
(27:41):
if it's a narrative that people want to portray a
narrative exactly. It's very rare that you come across someone
in real life when you get to know them a
little bit, whose humanity isn't front and center exactly. And
I feel like that's one of the things I'm trying
to do with this podcast. If one person listens to
this really like we're all human and like that's okay,
So it's you should embrace that. Well, you're already doing
(28:02):
it because me and you were talking about it right now,
and I love someone's listening. By the way, I saw
an interview did in September, or someone brought up you
about doing music, You're like, oh, I don't know, and
then someone said about doing it. By the time you
afford to, you're like, oh, then i'd have to get
on that. You went on it, and you did it.
I got on it, step on it. Yeah, I totally did.
(28:24):
I think I may also have already been like toying
with the idea when I said that, because that again,
old me would have been very careful about that. But
who's new Ben Barnes. Who's new Ben Barnes? The new Me?
The new Ben Barnes is the most is the most me?
Love that? Yeah? I think I just I feel I
feel more me being like I don't feel necessarily like
(28:48):
I have to be all things to all people, which
I think is the thing that I have been a
bit guilty of, like just just wanting to be exciting
enough and funny enough and or you know, tough enough
or whatever it is that I'm You know, when you
play all these different types of characters, you kind of
want to be those things for the people that saw
you that way. Um, there's the person that I am
on a Sunday underneath Hill, you know. Yeah, Okay, we
(29:10):
have to take one more quick break, but when we
come back, we'll dive into your new EP and much more.
We'll be right back and we're back. As you know,
I love your new EP. You know what my favorite
song is? I don't, but I have to say, like,
(29:31):
knowing what people's favorite one is and why it is
like the thing that I'm most excited to find out.
So hit me. Okay, So first song I listened to
it is eleven eleven, which I love because I feel
like it gets you and it puts you in a
good mood. I feel like you can listen to it
in different settings, whether you're in a car ride, whether
you're just jamming out in your room. You can do
(29:52):
it all. But I will say one song that I
think I love, that I'm excited for people to hear,
is not the end. Oh yeah, I think the lyrics
and the melody are so beautiful. Oh good? What was
the process in writing that one? So it's a few things.
One my dad, when I was a kid, used to
say to me that John Lennon quote about if it's
(30:13):
not okay, sorry, everything will be okay in the end,
and if it's not okay, it's not the end, which
is like the typical John Lenning genius um. But at
the root of it is this very simple, beautiful thing,
which is basically like you know, taking someone's hand and saying, hey,
are you okay? No, okay, it will get better. That's
(30:33):
basically what you're saying, which is the best thing you
can ever say to anyone, because it will change. Things
will change inevitably. The only thing that we're sure of
is that things will change. And then I was thinking
through like all this like cliche life advice, and I
was actually watching like some like I've seen the commercials
that were like mocking people stitching those like live laugh
long uh signs, which like the old Ladies have no
(30:57):
I don't. I don't know about TikTok, but it was
on to Tell Vision. It was it was like a
show I think that was mocking it and then m
and I was like, do you know what though, when
people tell you that stuff, they're trying to do a
good thing. They're like trying to like be there for you.
And even if it sounds like a cliche, like all
(31:18):
of those phrases that we tell each other like you know,
got there for a reason. And so I was like
listening all of the cliches I could think of that
we're like about support. I was like what if I
what if I put these all in this song? Which
I did, and then what if I try and reclaim
this like live laugh love thing is like like I'm
not going to say that to you, but like what
if I put big like Gospelly backing vocals on it
(31:38):
a vibe like good live love love, And I'm like,
what if I make that sound like a bit vibe,
and I put some organ and make it sound like
a bit like Doobie Brothers. E What if I make
give it a bit of that like some soul. What
if it's one of those songs you can like put
on in the morning and just go yeah, I would
like that. Do that again and I go yeah. Sometimes
(32:02):
I do that when I get I go wolf. It's
kind of similar when I'm shocked. When I'm shocked, I
go wolf. Yeah. I feel that I make a lot
of sound effects. I'm realizing when I sit down, I'm
like and I'm just realizing that comes out of my
mouth and I don't even realize it. Well, you're not forty.
When I sit down, I go. When I sit down,
I go, I do that, And it's kind of concerning
(32:26):
to me that I'm already doing them, like when I'm forty,
what noises? Am I going to be making? Good ones?
Good ones? Good ones? Is a correct answer? Thank you
ten points for me. I think you should do Broadway,
just thinking because it brings together acting, storytelling, music. Have
we thought about this, Yes, we thought about it. But
(32:47):
here's the next question, which maybe you can answer. What
show should I be in because I do love musical stuff,
like that's where I started off. Like with my teens,
I would do that stuff. And I've done a full
of professional ones when I was very early twenties, but
I haven't touched it in so long, and but I
would want it to be something really good. Okay, right
(33:09):
off the bat. Three off the top of my head.
One waitress. Okay, there's a great guy roll in it
with some great soulful music in it. That is true.
The doctor too. If you're into more of a storyline,
I say dear of Vanhansen because that hits different. But
am I going to play the dad? I mean, why not?
He have some good songs to break in a glove
(33:29):
if you know that, I do know that. But both
of these, both of these roles are on stage for
about twenty minutes. But here's the thing. I want to
be in it. I want to be involved. If I'm
doing something, I want to be involved. Would you ever
make a musical? Yeah, maybe we should just write one.
Maybe you should write one for me, Maybe you should
write one together. Honestly, I think that'd be fun, because
(33:50):
I think there's something about musicals that are so underrated
nowadays from New York City to give context, but they're
coming back. They're coming back with like like obviously like
the with the movie movies of like Hamilton, Different in
the Heights and you know, all of that stuff and
into the words even um into the Woods. I love
that musical. I would do that. I want to play
the Prince and the Wolf both. Yeah. Both. It works
(34:14):
really well when you do both, you know what, I
something like eight shows a week. You're doing both characters
that would deserve award. That's that's that's that's the way
forward for sure. So what are you? What are you
working on now? Yeah? I just finished something like two
days ago, which is a new Netflix anthology horror show
(34:36):
that Gmo del Toro has put together called The Cabinet
of Curiosities, And every episode has like a different story
in a different cast and they're all like horror stories.
And I did one with Crispin Glover that is very creepy.
And I always said I would never do horror because
I am too scared and don't like being creepy. I
(34:58):
don't like being creeped out. I don't mind like being shocked,
and I don't mind thrillers. But I don't like feeling
like creeped out. Yeah, but I was I couldn't say
no to like give a dotur and this and the
script was so cool, and I was like, and I
got to play this this character over like sort of
twenty five year period, so I was like, I have
to do this, so that will be coming soon. See.
(35:21):
Then now I'm torn because I hate horror, but now
I want to see it. But you love me friends, now,
so now I'm torn. Well just watch my episode. Okay,
I will do that, and I will. It's very creepy
and it is really disturbing and the ending is terrifying,
so feel free to like, like, feel free to like,
um message me sobbing at the end, going why do
(35:46):
you maybe watch this? Okay? When is it? When is
this coming out? Or is there I don't know. I
don't know, but I'm sure next year a sure, But
you know, I need to mentally prepare for it now
that I know there's a thriller at the end, I'm okay, okay, fine,
do you know what I mean? I was not fine
shooting it. I was not fine. I knew what you
scared shooting it. I was, honestly so I tried to
(36:06):
trick myself by like I tried to trick myself. I
would get the director lot to like play me creepy music,
or like make banging sounds during takes, or like, and
sometimes I wouldn't look at something. I would do the
rehearsal with my eyes closed so that when they did
the first take, I could look at something for the
first time. And I try not to give it away.
But in the end I did the rehearsal my eyes
(36:27):
closed so that I could not look at something, and
then when I saw it, I was genuinely, very very upset. See,
I've I've heard horror more movies, like people on set
being like, no, it wasn't scary, but you're telling me
you were actually scared. Well, I am a sensitive soul.
I mean, honestly, that's it doesn't surprise me. But you've
(36:47):
played a lot. You have. You've had some gruesome deaths
in your career. I have. I have heard some I
do die a lot. You do. Now, why do we
think that people want to kill me? Why do people
want to kill me so much? I don't know. I
think we need to explore that in one of your songs,
My new my new album Why Did People Want to
Kill Me So Much? It's a different genre. It's like
a grunge metal, like some grunge metal add in with
(37:09):
some nice orchestra. Yeah, but it's also a musical. I
will say, I am so happy. Are Do you have
any plans for when this EP comes out? Are you
doing any celebration? Are you just going to be by
your piano? But I haven't really thought about it, um,
but I should definitely do something. I was away shooting
when the when the first song came out, so I
was celebrating on I was just celebrating on like Instagram,
(37:31):
like watching all these other people celebrating me, which was
so lovely because I owed so much of Why did
it too? You know. I started putting covers and things
on Instagram a few years ago, and people, you know,
started off by saying like oh this you sound great,
or like I really love this, please do more. And
then in the end it was on Twitter. It was like,
you know, where's the damn album you're sending me that?
(37:53):
That was a great imitation of Twitter, thank you, and
so that is that is my limitation of Twitter. Yeah,
and then so then I was like, yeah, where is
the damn album. I'm gonna make it. I got to
do it, so I owe them a lot. I'll celebrate there.
But yeah, hopefully I should do something in the actual
real world. Are I are I r L see I
know things I r L I know Internet things. No, no, no,
(38:19):
just for future reference. If you know it, don't say
you know it. And also, don't get it wrong till
I saw a podcast before you, then get it right.
If you ever need help with some like slang, just
let me know and I will tell you what it means.
I do that for a lot of people. Actually, right, great,
I need I need that person in my life so badly. Well, then,
(38:39):
thank you so much for coming on my podcast. You're
so welcome. Hopefully we can meet in person one day
and not that would be brilliant. That would be ideal.
Next time we do this, we'll do it in the studio.
Let's do it. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it was so
great to talk to you. Nobody still to thank you.
You're so good at this. Thank you, Ben, Thank you
(39:01):
so much for coming on my podcast. Again. I loved
this conversation and I'm excited to meet you in person
one day. Um, if you haven't. Please listen to and
download songs for you. The CP is truly incredible. Anyways,
don't forget to have follow Ben on social media. It's
Ben Barnes. And follow me on Instagram and it's Sammy J.
That's I T S S A M M, Y J
(39:23):
A y E. And please subscribe to the podcast and
leave a comment in a review because I always like
to read. I read all of them, and I always
like to see what people say, and I want your feedback.
I hope you guys enjoyed this week's episode and I
will see you next week. By
Hi guys, and welcome back to this week's episode of
the Lesbi Real Podcast. I'm Sammy J. Today I got
to chat with Ben Barnes. He's an incredible actor. You
may have seen him in The West World, Shadow and Bone,
Chronicles of Narnia, and much more. Ben. Actually, you just
came out with an EP called Songs for You, and
(00:21):
I genuinely love this EP. It brings me happiness when
I listened to it. It is so soulful. Ben. If
you're listening, thank you so much for coming on my podcast.
I really enjoyed this conversation, and I know all of
you will too. I hope you guys enjoy Ben. Welcome
to my podcast. I'm so excited we take it this out.
(00:42):
Thank you for having me, Sammy. I have to say
your EP, Songs for You, I'm obsessed. And I'm not
just saying that because here's the thing. When a lot
of people go into music, they generally do the basic
pop standard, nothing really original with it. But I got
(01:04):
some Michael Boublet vibes, I got a little bit of
Queen in there, and it's just it feeds my soul.
That is the best review I will ever get it
feeds my soul. That's what I was going for. Well,
you nailed it. That's what music does for me. Though.
I think growing up particularly like Queen is like the
sound of me being ten and twelve and fifteen and forty.
(01:30):
But also like all those like those like Ray, Charles
and James all that, all that kind of mood music
is like everything that I aspire to be and feel.
And I love all that wrap pack stuff as well,
Christmas music, all that, all of that stuff that's like
(01:50):
nourishes your soul, like you say, And so I was
just trying to I didn't quite know what my music
would exactly sound like. I didn't have an exact thing
in my head, but I knew I wanted to like
sprinkle a little bit of all of their gold dust
into my cauldron and see what was spat out the
other side. Yeah, well let's get into that. You almost
(02:12):
put up music like twenty years ago, and now you're
coming back around to it. Why didn't you then? And
what makes you go back to it now? Um? So,
I think it's a few things. When I was nineteen,
I signed to a music manager and I was singing
some jazz stuff and it didn't kind of pan out
the way that I hoped it would. It was the
very first year that any of those like Pop Idol
(02:32):
American Idol shows came out, and that just took over,
and that was the only music thing anyone was interested in,
and my dreams kind of slipped through my fingers like
sand and and I kind of got a bit disillusion
with it and thought, maybe this isn't what I'm supposed
to be doing. But I wasn't really writing my own stuff.
I was doing impressions of Sinatra that can Coal or
(02:56):
or Stevie Wonder or I would do tribute concerts and
soul nights and all those things when I was in
high school and stuff. But it was never like me, me, me, me,
And I didn't know like what I wanted to sound
like or what I really wanted to say. And and
I think after being kind of disillusioned like that, the
thought of writing my own songs and putting them out
(03:17):
just I got a little bit um. I think I
was just a little bit fearful of what the judgment
of that would be, not having complete confidence myself what
that would sound like. And if I did know what
it sounds like, sounded like what what would I want
to say? And I think it just takes some of
us sometimes a little bit longer to make good on
(03:38):
our deals with ourselves that think the promises we make
ourselves that will prioritize this or do this in our lives.
And I think during the pandemic, I spent a lot
of time talking in my head to like the eight
year old version of myself saying I didn't who didn't
like totally we all had these crises of identity. But
(04:00):
I was speaking to grand Pappy Barnes saying, like what
do I what do I? You know you're you're going
to regret not doing this in your life. There's no thing,
there's nothing to be afraid of, Like, there's nothing like
anyone who would judge it negatively. I'm not particularly interested
in those people in life. And it might put a
(04:22):
smile on someone's face. And honestly, two days after I
put out my first song, there was this There was
this video this I think it was a TikTok of
this girl dancing in her kitchen, smiling, spinning around listening
to my song, and I was like, this video alone
is worth making the album for. This is like I'm
so happy to watching this right now, and then people
were doing like pole dancing and like ice skating routines
(04:46):
to it, and like it's like talk about feed your soul, Like, yeah,
that did it for me. It's like you miss all
the shots you don't take. And I think putting yourself
out there can be really scary and vulnerable, especially as
an actor when people see you your different characters, you
haven't put yourself out there, and putting out your music
is putting yourself out there without any mask. What has
(05:08):
that been like stepping into yourself in this new time
of your life. Yeah, it's it's it's that's very astute.
And that's exactly you know. I feel like I've been
nudging myself towards this for the twenty years of my career,
where I look at a character and I try and
syringe pieces of myself into it, and I try and
(05:28):
make make those characters, even if they're like psycho killers
or like, you know, as far from me as you
could possibly get. I tried to find a little piece
of myself that I can just butter that toast with,
just to just to make it feel honest and grounded
and truthful. Um, but but I think it just it
(05:49):
just became time for me to offer something into the
world that was more innately and purely and authentically just
from me, um and about me, and and that's what
this and that's what this songs for you EP became.
And that's what's so beautiful. I feel like everyone came
to their own realization during the pandemic, whether that was
(06:12):
finding a new passion or coming across the passion that
they forgot they had. Was there a specific moment you're like, Okay,
I have to do music, or was it like a
continuing thing where you just kind of happened. I think
it's always been a continuing thing. Like I've always had
like notebooks that I've written, like little phrases people say,
or little things that rhyme in my head or something
I've read somewhere, and I'll often like type that on
(06:33):
my phone and then put it in a notebook. And um,
you know, I spent hours sitting at my little at
my piano there and kind of not that I really
know anything about music, but I'll just move my fingers
around until it sounds scrunchy to me, and it sounds
like a feeling that I've had, so it was a
little bit painstaking from that perspective, but um, yeah, it was.
(06:56):
As I say, it's it's always been something that I
wanted to do, but the pandemic really really sped up
and rushed through that feeling of if if not now,
when like, you don't want to regret not don't want
to regret not doing this, and so it just became
very clear to me and that was very freeing that
that really like released me. Like when you put out music,
it's called a release, and it feels like I've dropped something,
(07:18):
I've let go of this like expectation of myself to
do this, and you know, and the really beautiful thing
is no one can ever take it away from me,
like I am forever now a songwriter and a singer
and a musician. You have that title now. And I
think one of the great things about just like I
know that feeling, like for me, that's releasing the podcast.
(07:38):
When we're planning a season and it's releasing it, I'm like,
oh my god, Okay, it's out in the world. People
can interpret it in any way that you want, but
you did your job and that's all you can do.
And if you're happy with it. That's what matters. You
made this and no one can unmake it. Exactly exactly
where did your passion for music start? My passion enthusic
(07:59):
I think my dad probably he was playing. He would
play like all these seventies rock bands like the Stones
and the Beatles and the Who and the Eagles and
Queen and just all these brilliant bands. Would you know,
when he was at home, he would be he would
be blasting those um. And so I think that's probably
where it started. And then I would like root around
in the back of his vinyls and find the and
(08:19):
find the raychels, and I'd find that, you know, the
rat pack stuff and like all of that stuff that
he had but didn't play as often. Um. And then
when I was just when I was in school, I
would play the drums in like big bands. My first
ever job, when I was fifteen, I played the drums
in a West End London production of Bugsy Malone. That's awesome. Um.
(08:43):
And I've never honestly, I've done a lot of things
in my life that other people might think we're exciting,
but I've never felt cooler than when I would, like
in the middle of a class on like a Wednesday,
because we'd have a matinee at like eleven o'clock in
the morning. I stand up and be like, sorry, yeah,
I've got to go. I've got a job being a
(09:04):
drummer in the in the West end of you to
go be a musician right now, in the middle of
a class, to stand up and grab your drumsticks and
be like, peace out. I have never felt cooler than that. Yeah, yeah,
because I wasn't cool and I didn't feel seen and
I didn't feel like like I felt totally invisible, I
think when I was at school and so so I
(09:26):
think like, just to have that moment of saying this
is something that I do that you don't know about,
I felt really good. I totally agree high school was
not it for me. I am very glad to be
out of it. If you're in high school and you're listening, no,
it is temporary. It gets better. It gets so much better.
And I heard people say that to me, but I
didn't believe it, but I wish I did, because I
(09:48):
still don't understand those people who say, oh, yeah, school
was the best best days of my life. And I
can understand maybe if you were like the high school
quarterback and like you were the king of everything. I
can understand in high school though, like who wants to
peak and eyes? Well I don't, but I can understand
those people saying that was there there, you know they
remember it's really fondly or whatever. But but no, you're right, No,
(10:11):
I'm playing a long game here. I will say that
high school musical did me dirty because I thought going
into high school I would be like all these cute
boys and then no, it's like all these pre pubous
and eighth graders like all joining what you think. But
that's because when when you watch films when you're fifteen,
that those those actors are twenty five. Okay, why don't
(10:34):
people cast like the actual eight I don't know, but
I looked so young when I was seventeen, I looked
about fourteen, and so I could never have played the age.
And then when I was twenty five, I got cast
in this pilot on the c W called Split Decision,
which never made it to air. But it was kind
of like that movie Sliding Doors, like it's saw um
(10:57):
it saw like a girl's first day of high school
too different ways, and like depending on whether she sat
with the cool kids or like the nerds like it
would see how her life went. And I was I
was the jock, the quarterback. My name was Chris Kinkaid,
and I had like a like a letter's jacket. But
I was like twenty two or something out twenty three,
(11:20):
something like that. I can't quite remember, but I was
definitely thinking, Ah, now I'm cool enough to be seventeen. Yeah,
it's you know, you've said it so perfectly. That's the
thing about movies and TV shows. It just gives you
a false sense of what life is like in some ways.
But you know, I will say something that I think
is super interesting is you've played a lot of villains. Um,
(11:42):
you don't seem like a very Yeah, you don't seem
like a very villainous person. You seem very nice. You
do look scary in her. But the thing is, I
think what's so interesting is in your more recent projects,
it's often in a very dystopian world. You know, it's
in a different universe and it's an escape. And music
does the same thing. So I'm curious what draws you
(12:04):
to kind of that escape bism to put your worries away,
whether that's in acting, or in music. So so I
think there's two things. One one is that I do
love that escapeist stuff and I'm just a big fan
of like fantasy stuff and it's just storytelling. I love
to escape into series and stuff. I am an unabashed
(12:24):
like binger of TV and movies. What's your best binge?
I mean everything, test me, I will. I mean, like
I just finished a good game, I haven't seen it yet. Well,
then I win because in the first, the first one
we've mentioned. Can I tell you why I think I
win this one? Because I watched Breaking Bad in nine days.
(12:47):
Oh oh, I see what you mean by your best binge? Um,
six seasons over forty five minutes. It was my big
It was like the beginning of the pandemic. I was like,
I'm gonna do it. That is that is that is
actually that is actually credible. Um. Yeah, I'm impressed. I'm
trying to think what my best bringers are. I'm sure
I did some seasons of Um, what have I done
(13:12):
really quickly? I'm sure back in the day, I did
some seasons of twenty four or something like that very fast.
I'm sure. I'm sure I probably tried to do it
in twenty four hours and failed epically. But yeah, I've
definitely had a few of those. But I think so
I love all the escapism, but the main draw I
think of those things and the reason that I've sort
of been um I think anyway, I kind of found
(13:34):
myself this little niche of like villains but not really
villains like humans. Yeah you've answered my God, damn you,
damn samny j you you've answered my my answer before
I've done it. But yeah, I like my my quest
in life, whether it's songwriting or just like the way
I have friendships and the way I connect with people
(13:58):
is always about like trying to eat all the sides
of it and you know, just empathy and human and
and so when I see these characters, I'm like, Okay,
so on West World, my character, this guy's a douche bag.
But why And then you find out in the second
season that actually he's had this very strange relationship with
his dad and doesn't feel like he's loved and is
(14:19):
acting out like a baby, you know, and we all
have this like Russian doll of ourselves, Like I think,
like the teenager, the strappy teenager that we were, and
the love that Russian dollar of yourselves. It's so right
like that, I see what you're saying though this you know,
the hangry baby and the strappy teenager, and then the
like adventurous twenty year old and the like you know,
(14:41):
trying to be more majorre than you are thirty year old,
and then this slightly more together for your like, we
we gather these things together and they never go away.
And then when we're tired or or stressed or whatever,
like these these things like like they they kind of
come out on us. And I just think all people
have the power to be every thing and the capacity
(15:01):
to feel everything. And so when I get these villainous
kind of characters, I'm interested in telling those stories about hope.
And if I'm the obstacle, that's that's that's how I
fit into the story. But I want to find those
little ways that I can humanize. And you know, if
if the character is scary, where is where is he vulnerable?
(15:22):
And if the character is cold, what what can make
him feel warm? Um? You know, if the character is
is tense, where do we see those little moments of
him relax? You know, I think I think I'm always
trying to look at things from two sides, and I
think that's what I'm trying to do with my music
as well. It's very interesting. I'm in film school, by
(15:42):
the way, are you amazing? Yes, So I'm learning about
just directing camera and goes and all the stuff, and
I find it so fascinating the ways you can tell
a story and how you can do that without even words.
You can just do that through cinematography totally. What would
you say your most impactful moment you've had on set?
(16:03):
I think there's there are so many. Um. I think
it's always actually useful to think about the moments in
which you feel like you failed a bit, because then
you can look back and see how much you've grown.
And I think I think I remember being quite overwhelmed
on the first Narnia movie and looking at these incredible
sets and costumes and you know, stunt departments and you know,
hundreds of extras on horses, and it's just this overwhelmingly
(16:27):
wonderful life event for me. But I remember there was
a scene where I was supposed to be kind of
melancholy and the director sort of said, oh, what's your
sort of process to get into this? And I don't
know if I even really had one at that point,
like I didn't know enough about what I was doing,
(16:47):
and I felt a little bit ashamed that I couldn't
sort of I wasn't giving them him what he wanted.
And I think now, you know, fifteen years, twenty years
later or whatever, like I I've sort of pride myself
on being able to put myself into any situation and
feel any human emotion and convey that. Um, but it's
(17:09):
something that I've worked on really, really hard over a
long period of time. So I think, um, you know,
just being being challenged, I think is probably the key
moments where and and actually the kind of direction that
I love from a director is once they've sort of
once you've sort of gone a trust, if they'd just
come up to you and sort of say I don't
(17:31):
believe you. You know, it's just a very simple piece
of challenging direction because then you're like, Okay, in this take,
I must tell the truth, or in this take, I
must really listen to what they're saying, or something very
specific like that. I think if you take one thing
into the way that you're doing something, often like everything
else then just slots into place. Okay, we have to
take a quick break, but when we come back, I
(17:52):
want to talk more about acting, specifically the auditioning process,
your new EP, and much more will be right back. Yeah,
something that is very interesting they want to bring up
with you is I have a lot of friends that
are actors, and something that I've realized is the job
(18:15):
is auditioning, Like that is the full time job. And
then when you get cast, that's great, But the full
time job is auditioning and oftentimes rejection um and that
can be really hard, especially when it's constant, and if
you're in an industry when they're like thousands of you. Essentially,
how have you dealt with that throughout your career and
what advice do you have for people who are listening
that want to get into acting or are but they're
(18:38):
coming back with just rejections after audition and audition. I mean,
I think there's no way around that. You have to
develop a bit of a thick skin with it. And
it doesn't stop at auditions, you know. I there are
films that I did earlier in my Creator which the
response was so critical and negative and poisonous, and you
have to develop a bit of a thick skin and
remember why you love it, and remember why you keep pushing,
(19:01):
and remember why you you kind of hang in there. Um.
I think with auditions it's about reframing it to an
opportunity for you to show them what you would do
with this material. You look at these words, and remember
that only you'll only really ever get cast in anything
because you're you, not because of some magic tricks circus
(19:25):
trick that you'll pull off. Yes, maybe if you can
do a certain skill or do a certain accent, that
will help. But actually they've got something in mind when
you walk in. But everyone who watches you walk into
the room wants it to be you. They want to
find the person. So if you come in with all
of your you, all of your essence, all of like
what you took from these words and you it's a
(19:46):
it's an opportunity for you to present what you make
of of what you've read, basically, and and if you
leave that in there, then then you can never have
any regret about what you offered them. And if they
did choose it, it's you know, it's it's simply because
they had a different idea of what it was, not
because of anything you did or didn't do. Um. Trying
(20:09):
to please other people is never going to be the
way forward. It's going to be the thing that it's
going to be. Do it the way that you want
to do it. And if you keep doing that, eventually
someone that you know, someone will respond to that. It's
about you know, so it's about sort of authenticity. I
think something people people respond to something that feels honest.
But you know, there's no way around it. It's it's
(20:30):
an industry that you have to do, develop a little
bit of a thick skin and sort of somebody once
told me, you walk walk into the room, no, you know,
believing that that job is yours, and walk out of
the room knowing that it's not. And then it will
always be this like incredible surprise if you do get
the job, but you won't ever be like gutted to
(20:52):
your core. But having said that, there are always those
few jobs that you've auditioned for which you're just like,
how did I not get that job? Is there a
movie that you wish you were in? And if so,
what character what do you have played? It could be
a classic, it could be a more recent one. Oh
my god, there are some, I mean, I'm sure there
(21:12):
are I'm sure there are so many. Um, I will
tell you the one that I will tell you the
one that stung for me many many, many years ago.
I did about ten auditions for a film called Across
the Universe, which was a Beatles movie, and Evan rachel
Wood started it with Jim Sturgis and Evan rachel Wood
then was in West World, and I remember telling her,
(21:34):
you know, many many years later, like I wanted I
wanted to be in that film with you so badly
because it was singing Beetles and the Beatles too. It
was singing Beatles songs in a movie. It was just unbelievable.
And when I've done sort of ten auditions for it,
it was just crushing to not get that one. Um
but um, you know, so there are always going to
(21:55):
be a few which kind of which kind of sting.
But then you look at all the things you did
do and the collectively made you who you are. It's,
you know, do you think you're going to be prioritizing
music over acting going forward? Are you going to find
a balance between the two. So interesting you said prioritizing
because that's actually one of the reasons I did it
was because it was pointed out to me that your
(22:15):
priorities are the things that you actually prioritize, not the
things that you tell people are your priorities, because those
are just like the ways you want to be seen, like,
you know, because I remember some I said, oh, my
priorities are you know, playing more music, My priorities are
you know, having a family doing this at the end,
and I think, and I think it might have been
(22:37):
my mom who said, um, well, no, your priorities are
your work and your friends and your family and those things,
because those are the things that you actually spend all
of your time on off and the other things are
just like ways that you want to see yourself and
the things that you aspire to spend more time on,
but they're not your priorities. And that was a real
like spin around moment for me of I need to
(23:00):
start prioritizing the things that I think that I want
to make my priorities. Otherwise they won't I'll let they
you know, I'll look back and they won't have been
my priorities. So I think that's an important word. You know,
what you prioritize, But I think no, I mean I
prioritize my my acting and my job and the thing
that makes me feel like me. But but I love
(23:23):
music so much and I always have and it's always
been such a huge part of my life, just not
in a sort of more public sharing kind of way,
but I love that feeling of sharing it so far
at least, and so I definitely want to do more
of it and try and find a balance and try
and find a way to keep keep doing it like this,
because um, it feels, honestly, even just this, doing this
(23:45):
chat with you now, like it feels so much better
to be talking about the way I really see things,
rather than a script that I didn't write and just
promoting something because you have to, but something that you
actually created, and that's what's so beautiful about it. Made
yeah exactly. Okay, I have to ask, Yes, you're a
very private person, which I think is so important, especially
(24:07):
nowadays because everything is put out there sometimes too much,
you could argue, and in your music it's very honest
and heartfelt and authentic. What has that been like so far?
Just a response and sharing your life and your thoughts
and your feelings when you haven't had before. Well, I
think part of it is by virtue of you know,
(24:28):
when I was young, journalists would sort of say, if
you want to be an actor, you have to answer
these kind of questions about this that the other. And
I think that it's really important to draw that personal
line for yourself. And it's different for everyone, and that's
actually completely okay, but different for everyone what you want
to share about your life in the same way that
everyone is in control of their own Instagram. You can
pretend your life is as as cool and sexy as
you like, but it might not make you very happy.
(24:50):
And I think that you know, my mom is a
is a you know, like a sex and relationship psychotherapist,
and she was always you know, teaching the importance of
having your kind of particularly romantic relationships, but even your
like friendship and stuff. They're they're yours and they are
you know, they are your support system when the world feels,
(25:10):
you know, it should be you against the world, not
not kind of you. If you offer up everything that
you are publicly, then and then everything that you are
publicly is up for scrutiny and up for criticism, and
and then you've got nowhere to lean because they've all
been a part of it. And I think that so
that that became created to me quite early on. But actually,
as I get older, I realized that, you know, ship,
(25:33):
what you do with music is you share it. What
you do with stories is you tell them and you
share them. And I think that the things that have
made me feel void and and and comforted in times
when I've been low is realizing that everyone feels the
same things pretty much. Um, the lows feel the same
kind of low. You know, anger feels the same, guilt
(25:56):
feels the same, misery feels the same for everyone. So
so UM being able to understand that everyone feels those things,
and everyone is confused, and everyone is like trying to
see things from me, you know, other people's perspectives in
the same way that struggle is the same. And I
think that there's no I realized there is absolutely no
harm in sharing a little bit more of that about
(26:16):
myself and trying to be encouraging. And actually I'm a
very hopeful person. So all my songs are have an
element of hope in them, and so you know, to
bring a bit of that hopefulness and joyfulness and soulfulness
to my characters and also to the songs. If you
can get someone dancing in the kitchen then or if
you can get someone like crying to it with a
(26:37):
cocoa because of something that's happened in their life, that's
all good too. And I think that's one of the
things that is so important and something that I unintentionally
am trying to do with this podcast is that something
I realized just starting is how the media has taken
the human out of the person and how you read
a headline and they become a figure that is on pedestal,
(26:58):
but they're they don't cry, They're like, they're just not
a human being with a heart and that bleeds. And
I think that's what's so great about you sharing more
with your music is that you're letting people back in
on you that you are a human totally. And I
want people to understand that because my humanness is actually
probably I think the best thing about me, exactly like
(27:19):
your flaws and everything it makes you you. Um, So
I wouldn't mind people sharing, sharing that and knowing that.
But I can't begin to tell you how many people
that I know personally that I've met that are in
the public eye that are just so entirely misunderstood and
so entirely misjudged by virtue of how people are keen
to portray them because they feel a certain you know,
(27:41):
if it's a narrative that people want to portray a
narrative exactly. It's very rare that you come across someone
in real life when you get to know them a
little bit, whose humanity isn't front and center exactly. And
I feel like that's one of the things I'm trying
to do with this podcast. If one person listens to
this really like we're all human and like that's okay,
So it's you should embrace that. Well, you're already doing
(28:02):
it because me and you were talking about it right now,
and I love someone's listening. By the way, I saw
an interview did in September, or someone brought up you
about doing music, You're like, oh, I don't know, and
then someone said about doing it. By the time you
afford to, you're like, oh, then i'd have to get
on that. You went on it, and you did it.
I got on it, step on it. Yeah, I totally did.
(28:24):
I think I may also have already been like toying
with the idea when I said that, because that again,
old me would have been very careful about that. But
who's new Ben Barnes. Who's new Ben Barnes? The new Me?
The new Ben Barnes is the most is the most me?
Love that? Yeah? I think I just I feel I
feel more me being like I don't feel necessarily like
(28:48):
I have to be all things to all people, which
I think is the thing that I have been a
bit guilty of, like just just wanting to be exciting
enough and funny enough and or you know, tough enough
or whatever it is that I'm You know, when you
play all these different types of characters, you kind of
want to be those things for the people that saw
you that way. Um, there's the person that I am
on a Sunday underneath Hill, you know. Yeah, Okay, we
(29:10):
have to take one more quick break, but when we
come back, we'll dive into your new EP and much more.
We'll be right back and we're back. As you know,
I love your new EP. You know what my favorite
song is? I don't, but I have to say, like,
(29:31):
knowing what people's favorite one is and why it is
like the thing that I'm most excited to find out.
So hit me. Okay, So first song I listened to
it is eleven eleven, which I love because I feel
like it gets you and it puts you in a
good mood. I feel like you can listen to it
in different settings, whether you're in a car ride, whether
you're just jamming out in your room. You can do
(29:52):
it all. But I will say one song that I
think I love, that I'm excited for people to hear,
is not the end. Oh yeah, I think the lyrics
and the melody are so beautiful. Oh good? What was
the process in writing that one? So it's a few things.
One my dad, when I was a kid, used to
say to me that John Lennon quote about if it's
(30:13):
not okay, sorry, everything will be okay in the end,
and if it's not okay, it's not the end, which
is like the typical John Lenning genius um. But at
the root of it is this very simple, beautiful thing,
which is basically like you know, taking someone's hand and saying, hey,
are you okay? No, okay, it will get better. That's
(30:33):
basically what you're saying, which is the best thing you
can ever say to anyone, because it will change. Things
will change inevitably. The only thing that we're sure of
is that things will change. And then I was thinking
through like all this like cliche life advice, and I
was actually watching like some like I've seen the commercials
that were like mocking people stitching those like live laugh
long uh signs, which like the old Ladies have no
(30:57):
I don't. I don't know about TikTok, but it was
on to Tell Vision. It was it was like a
show I think that was mocking it and then m
and I was like, do you know what though, when
people tell you that stuff, they're trying to do a
good thing. They're like trying to like be there for you.
And even if it sounds like a cliche, like all
(31:18):
of those phrases that we tell each other like you know,
got there for a reason. And so I was like
listening all of the cliches I could think of that
we're like about support. I was like what if I
what if I put these all in this song? Which
I did, and then what if I try and reclaim
this like live laugh love thing is like like I'm
not going to say that to you, but like what
if I put big like Gospelly backing vocals on it
(31:38):
a vibe like good live love love, And I'm like,
what if I make that sound like a bit vibe,
and I put some organ and make it sound like
a bit like Doobie Brothers. E What if I make
give it a bit of that like some soul. What
if it's one of those songs you can like put
on in the morning and just go yeah, I would
like that. Do that again and I go yeah. Sometimes
(32:02):
I do that when I get I go wolf. It's
kind of similar when I'm shocked. When I'm shocked, I
go wolf. Yeah. I feel that I make a lot
of sound effects. I'm realizing when I sit down, I'm
like and I'm just realizing that comes out of my
mouth and I don't even realize it. Well, you're not forty.
When I sit down, I go. When I sit down,
I go, I do that, And it's kind of concerning
(32:26):
to me that I'm already doing them, like when I'm forty,
what noises? Am I going to be making? Good ones?
Good ones? Good ones? Is a correct answer? Thank you
ten points for me. I think you should do Broadway,
just thinking because it brings together acting, storytelling, music. Have
we thought about this, Yes, we thought about it. But
(32:47):
here's the next question, which maybe you can answer. What
show should I be in because I do love musical stuff,
like that's where I started off. Like with my teens,
I would do that stuff. And I've done a full
of professional ones when I was very early twenties, but
I haven't touched it in so long, and but I
would want it to be something really good. Okay, right
(33:09):
off the bat. Three off the top of my head.
One waitress. Okay, there's a great guy roll in it
with some great soulful music in it. That is true.
The doctor too. If you're into more of a storyline,
I say dear of Vanhansen because that hits different. But
am I going to play the dad? I mean, why not?
He have some good songs to break in a glove
(33:29):
if you know that, I do know that. But both
of these, both of these roles are on stage for
about twenty minutes. But here's the thing. I want to
be in it. I want to be involved. If I'm
doing something, I want to be involved. Would you ever
make a musical? Yeah, maybe we should just write one.
Maybe you should write one for me, Maybe you should
write one together. Honestly, I think that'd be fun, because
(33:50):
I think there's something about musicals that are so underrated
nowadays from New York City to give context, but they're
coming back. They're coming back with like like obviously like
the with the movie movies of like Hamilton, Different in
the Heights and you know, all of that stuff and
into the words even um into the Woods. I love
that musical. I would do that. I want to play
the Prince and the Wolf both. Yeah. Both. It works
(34:14):
really well when you do both, you know what, I
something like eight shows a week. You're doing both characters
that would deserve award. That's that's that's that's the way
forward for sure. So what are you? What are you
working on now? Yeah? I just finished something like two
days ago, which is a new Netflix anthology horror show
(34:36):
that Gmo del Toro has put together called The Cabinet
of Curiosities, And every episode has like a different story
in a different cast and they're all like horror stories.
And I did one with Crispin Glover that is very creepy.
And I always said I would never do horror because
I am too scared and don't like being creepy. I
(34:58):
don't like being creeped out. I don't mind like being shocked,
and I don't mind thrillers. But I don't like feeling
like creeped out. Yeah, but I was I couldn't say
no to like give a dotur and this and the
script was so cool, and I was like, and I
got to play this this character over like sort of
twenty five year period, so I was like, I have
to do this, so that will be coming soon. See.
(35:21):
Then now I'm torn because I hate horror, but now
I want to see it. But you love me friends, now,
so now I'm torn. Well just watch my episode. Okay,
I will do that, and I will. It's very creepy
and it is really disturbing and the ending is terrifying,
so feel free to like, like, feel free to like,
um message me sobbing at the end, going why do
(35:46):
you maybe watch this? Okay? When is it? When is
this coming out? Or is there I don't know. I
don't know, but I'm sure next year a sure, But
you know, I need to mentally prepare for it now
that I know there's a thriller at the end, I'm okay, okay, fine,
do you know what I mean? I was not fine
shooting it. I was not fine. I knew what you
scared shooting it. I was, honestly so I tried to
(36:06):
trick myself by like I tried to trick myself. I
would get the director lot to like play me creepy music,
or like make banging sounds during takes, or like, and
sometimes I wouldn't look at something. I would do the
rehearsal with my eyes closed so that when they did
the first take, I could look at something for the
first time. And I try not to give it away.
But in the end I did the rehearsal my eyes
(36:27):
closed so that I could not look at something, and
then when I saw it, I was genuinely, very very upset. See,
I've I've heard horror more movies, like people on set
being like, no, it wasn't scary, but you're telling me
you were actually scared. Well, I am a sensitive soul.
I mean, honestly, that's it doesn't surprise me. But you've
(36:47):
played a lot. You have. You've had some gruesome deaths
in your career. I have. I have heard some I
do die a lot. You do. Now, why do we
think that people want to kill me? Why do people
want to kill me so much? I don't know. I
think we need to explore that in one of your songs,
My new my new album Why Did People Want to
Kill Me So Much? It's a different genre. It's like
a grunge metal, like some grunge metal add in with
(37:09):
some nice orchestra. Yeah, but it's also a musical. I
will say, I am so happy. Are Do you have
any plans for when this EP comes out? Are you
doing any celebration? Are you just going to be by
your piano? But I haven't really thought about it, um,
but I should definitely do something. I was away shooting
when the when the first song came out, so I
was celebrating on I was just celebrating on like Instagram,
(37:31):
like watching all these other people celebrating me, which was
so lovely because I owed so much of Why did
it too? You know. I started putting covers and things
on Instagram a few years ago, and people, you know,
started off by saying like oh this you sound great,
or like I really love this, please do more. And
then in the end it was on Twitter. It was like,
you know, where's the damn album you're sending me that?
(37:53):
That was a great imitation of Twitter, thank you, and
so that is that is my limitation of Twitter. Yeah,
and then so then I was like, yeah, where is
the damn album. I'm gonna make it. I got to
do it, so I owe them a lot. I'll celebrate there.
But yeah, hopefully I should do something in the actual
real world. Are I are I r L see I
know things I r L I know Internet things. No, no, no,
(38:19):
just for future reference. If you know it, don't say
you know it. And also, don't get it wrong till
I saw a podcast before you, then get it right.
If you ever need help with some like slang, just
let me know and I will tell you what it means.
I do that for a lot of people. Actually, right, great,
I need I need that person in my life so badly. Well, then,
(38:39):
thank you so much for coming on my podcast. You're
so welcome. Hopefully we can meet in person one day
and not that would be brilliant. That would be ideal.
Next time we do this, we'll do it in the studio.
Let's do it. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it was so
great to talk to you. Nobody still to thank you.
You're so good at this. Thank you, Ben, Thank you
(39:01):
so much for coming on my podcast. Again. I loved
this conversation and I'm excited to meet you in person
one day. Um, if you haven't. Please listen to and
download songs for you. The CP is truly incredible. Anyways,
don't forget to have follow Ben on social media. It's
Ben Barnes. And follow me on Instagram and it's Sammy J.
That's I T S S A M M, Y J
(39:23):
A y E. And please subscribe to the podcast and
leave a comment in a review because I always like
to read. I read all of them, and I always
like to see what people say, and I want your feedback.
I hope you guys enjoyed this week's episode and I
will see you next week. By
Host
Sammy Jaye
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.