June 12, 2024 • 38 mins
Join Kenya Gipson, Dr. Risikat Busari and Busie Matsiko-Andan as they delve into the intricate relationship between parentification and maternal health in the riveting podcast series, "MEternal." In each episode, these seasoned experts explore the profound impact of parentification—the process by which a child is compelled to take on the role of a parent or caregiver—on the physical, emotional, and mental well-being of mothers.
Drawing from their wealth of experience in psychology, sociology, and maternal health advocacy, Dr. Busari and Busie Matsiko-Andan dissect the complex layers of parentification, shedding light on its origins, manifestations, and consequences for maternal health outcomes. Through candid discussions, expert interviews, and personal anecdotes, "MEternal" offers invaluable insights into how parentification shapes maternal identity, relationships, and access to healthcare resources.
Whether you're a healthcare professional, a parent, or an individual interested in the intersection of psychology and maternal health, "MEternal" provides a thought-provoking exploration of a phenomenon often overlooked in discussions about women's health. Tune in to "MEternal" and embark on a journey of discovery, empathy, and empowerment as we unravel the profound impact of parentification on the journey to maternal well-being.
Drawing from their wealth of experience in psychology, sociology, and maternal health advocacy, Dr. Busari and Busie Matsiko-Andan dissect the complex layers of parentification, shedding light on its origins, manifestations, and consequences for maternal health outcomes. Through candid discussions, expert interviews, and personal anecdotes, "MEternal" offers invaluable insights into how parentification shapes maternal identity, relationships, and access to healthcare resources.
Whether you're a healthcare professional, a parent, or an individual interested in the intersection of psychology and maternal health, "MEternal" provides a thought-provoking exploration of a phenomenon often overlooked in discussions about women's health. Tune in to "MEternal" and embark on a journey of discovery, empathy, and empowerment as we unravel the profound impact of parentification on the journey to maternal well-being.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I think the psychology that's behind,right, seeing somebody that comes in with
a white coat, and that trustfactor that's not there amongst us, right,
which is what this podcast is allabout. And this conversation is going
to be about today because we havetwo beautiful black mothers that are here with
us today. I'm eternal welcome.So why don't you both introduce yourselves and
(00:22):
then we'll, you know, continuethe conversation. Okay, hi everyone,
thank you for the opportunity to behere today. Kenya. So my name
is doctor ricak Adversari and I'm amom of two. I have a teten
year old daughter and a six yearsold boy as well. That's great,
And you have a podcast too thatyou do well. I have a podcast
that I'm starting. It's called TheWomen's Chronicles, which is to raise advocacy
(00:44):
on issues that affects the black community. So something like parentification, which essentially
means a child taking on the adultrole in a household. So when you're
looking at a single mother black familyin the United States, for example,
when the single is that she's probablyoverwhelmed doing all the work by herself at
home, and she probably enlisted thehelp of the first child to help her
(01:07):
in taking care of the remaining children. So statistics and research has showed that
this actually has adverse effects on thechildren. And when you're looking at the
black boys as well in the UnitedStates, those that are you know,
being sen sentenced to prison, mostof them, when you carry out something
called the genogram or a root cossetanalysis, you realize that they entered into
a life of crime not because theywanted to do that, but because there's
(01:30):
an absence of a father figure ora male figure in their lives, and
they're trying to help their mom interms of bringing money home to help them,
and by so doing, they endup mixing with the wrong crowd and
the end up you know, endup in the system, and it's a
lose lose situation for this kind ofboys, where the system should actually be
looking at how they got there andhelping them, helping their mom and putting
(01:51):
in place policies that can help singleblack mothers to be better and help their
children as well. So, yeah, that's a great explanation and analogy,
right, And I haven't heard thatterm parentification. Yes, parentification, some
research college adultification as well, Soessentially growing up too fast in scenarios with
(02:13):
girls. Some girls that are beingparentified can handle being promiscussed in terms of
having sex at a young age endup being mothers from a very young age
as well. And this is becausethe love that they're lacking at home,
they go out and look for itand the wrong people and even the ones
that are not affected as a youngchild, you know, growing up as
an adult, they end up gettingmarried to partners who's going to rely on
(02:37):
them and need them, and there'san imbalance in the relationship. So eventually
one day they get you know,something snaps in their head. They get
tired of just being there for everybody. So looking at the giving tree analogy,
you keep giving people, keep takingand taking and taking, and until
you're empty. So these are thekind of issues that we need to raise
more advocation for in the Black communityamongst mothers as well, because as mothers,
(03:00):
we don't want to harm our children, but we don't know that we're
doing it. So these are thekind of issues we need to raise raise
advocation for. There's another thing thatI'm really really passionate about. It's called
the adverse childhood experience, which talksabout the trauma that you experience as a
child can have adverse effects on yourhealth later on in life. So there's
a positive correlation with you know,living in a house where there's an absent
(03:23):
father or a family member, goingto jail, experiencing your mom being beaten,
domestic violence, emotional abuse, physicalabuse. So there's ten categories and
the Adverse Childhood Experience study. Sothe higher the category that you can relate
to, the more the positive correlationof having issues like cancer, immune immune
(03:44):
issues when you when you're holder lateron in life. So there's a lot
of things that I just feel likein the black community, we need to
tell mothers self care, self care, self care, take care of yourself,
make sure that you're healing from traumasproperly and you're helping your children heal
as well. And we're not alsounintentionally damaging our children without realizing that we're
doing it. Wow, that's powerful. Yes, very much so. And
(04:10):
boosy, Yes, I'm boosy,as you've mentioned, Kenya, nice to
be on your show again. Iam a mother of three girls. My
oldest sister thirty fourteen, and thenI have a twelve year old and six
year old and yes, we've beenthrough this journey before, but I'm wearing
(04:33):
a different hat today. I'm wearinga hat of a mom. You know,
I'm a consultant, but I'm wearinga hat of a mom. I'm
also on the advisory board of theSepsis Alliance, which brings awareness to sepsis.
And in this case, we'll talkabout maternal sepsis, which is a
(04:55):
life threatening medical emergency defined as organdysfunction resulting from infection during pregnancy, childbirth,
miscourage, or the postpartent period.And yeah, it's just why don't
have these conversations on our pregnancy experiencesand what some people who are looking to
(05:15):
get pregnant or have children or whohave historically had miscourages could look out for
to help bridge this gap, inthis this disparasy, in this the bridge
the gap this disparacy. Yeah,you know what's interesting is I feel like
the common thread and the common themeamongst all these things is trauma. Yes,
(05:43):
right, And how do we unpackthat trauma right individually? How do
we unpack that trauma as a community, and what the resolve of that looks
like? Right, Because when youtake a look at Black maternal health,
and you take a look at parentification, yes, right, and you see,
you know, the issues that aregoing on, even with sepsis,
(06:03):
which is a very traumatic experience.Right, it seems as though there's this
just lineage of problems within our communitythat are all innertide and just are unfortunately
very cohesive. At the core,it's transgenerational. So with some of the
psychologists and the subject matter expects thatI've spoken to, So when they carry
(06:26):
out a genogram of anybody, achild or a mother that has experienced trauma
and is the experience that they hadvast effects of the trauma on their body,
they trace it back three generations andwhen they do a genogram looking at
the family tree, they realize thesame issue, the same trauma was experienced
by the great grandmother, the grandmother, the mom. And if care is
not taken, if the transgenerational traumais not broken right now, it's gonna
(06:48):
keep happening and it's gonna happen tothe child and the children's are coming.
So it's something that in the blackcommunity, we really need to raise my
awareness for transgenerational trauma, how wecan heal from it and let people know
about it. Because a lot ofpeople don't even know about this information.
They don't know about it. Soif they don't know about it, how
can they know of the ealing mechanismsor the informations that are how there for
(07:12):
them to get help and be betterand do better. Yeah, yeah,
I mean it comes back to knowledge. And when we talk about knowledge being
aware, where can we get thisinformation? What information is out there?
What statistics affect minorities or not necessarilyminorities people in general, Like for instance,
(07:39):
they say black women are three pointthree times more likely to die from
pregnancy related causes than white women inthe US, and then Native American as
well as Native Alaskan women at twopoint five times more likely to die from
these complications. So and for me, I think it's what your level of
(08:05):
education is also could help could helpin this. But besides that, community
organizations that help bring awareness to someof these causes, like for instance,
you work with much of Dimes andthat brings awareness to the situation with regarding
premature babies. I mean I wasa premature baby myself and my mom had
(08:28):
about three premieres right, and myyoungest is a premier. But guess what,
I think that knowledge makes gives mehope that you know what, the
outcomes of premius today are higher thanthey used to be before. And then
when people hear the word premature,they get scared. They think there is
(08:50):
no hope at all. And yetmedical science has come a long way and
the outcomes phenomenal. But it comesback too knowledge because if you know about
that, oh, you're having interuterine growth retiation and it's your high risk
pregnancy, you're having a high riskpregnancy, you'll take necessary steps to improve
(09:15):
the outcomes of your baby. Butif you don't know, you won't make
certain amends or certain things you needto do to improve these outcomes. And
you see a vicious cycle, right. And what's interesting is just going back
to the transgenerational trauma that you weretalking about, Like you mentioned that your
(09:35):
mother had had premature babies, right, And we were talking earlier about having
cesarean sections and having a vback andlike that physical trauma that our bodies go
through, is that cannot be tiedback to transgenerational trauma. Well, it
can be tied back to it.Because this is why I really appreciate what
(09:56):
you're doing with the Maternal Podcast,because you're daf percentend knowledge to people who
would normally not have be prevy ofthis information. And this is why we
need the sisterhood of people like yourselflike Boosted to enlighten people and say okay,
looking at their community. These arethe things that you need to know
about when you're pregnant. These arethe things you need to talk to your
doctor about when you go to thedoctors or your physician, to talk to
(10:18):
them, to review your medical record, to review what you tell them,
what has happened to your mom aswell, because they can carry a proper
genogram and some things can actually beeffect of. Some things can actually be
eradicated by just doing that. Sotrauma as well, it's all related to
the trauma because if my mom didnot know of the knowledge, she's not
going to pass it down to me. So right now, looking at the
(10:41):
United States, and average single motherdon't even have a health insurance. So
if they're not going to the doctors, where are they going to know or
be prevy of this information that we'retrying to shape. But some of them
have Internet because something like in NewYork they have their Affordability Connectivity Service which
gives law income families access to freeinternet. So a mother like the single
(11:03):
mother who doesn't have internet or whodoesn't have access to good healthcare insurance,
they have internet. So that meansthey have the opportunity to listen to a
podcast like Maternal Be Enlightened and theycan know that the right things to do
and get better and heal from thistransit generational trauma as well. Yeah,
you maybe think about something else too, because we're talking about having a v
(11:26):
back after cesarean and I know youhad had a vback after Syrians. So
interesting because depending on the state you'rein, you can or cannot have a
v back. And so for instance, so back to my situation with my
mom had me when she was ina comma and she had traveled to Kenya
(11:46):
and contracted malaria and child celebrate malaria. In South Africa, they don't they
didn't have malaria, but they hadvery advanced medical health care health care services,
and so she was able to comeout of that situation and I was
born. The good thing. WhenI had they kept on saying, my
(12:07):
baby, I was carrying small babies. My mom's like, but oh,
my kids were small, don't worryabout it. So because she had this
knowledge, she was able to reassureme and that, oh, come on,
ignore the doctors. None of yourbabies will be just fine. But
back to the v back. SoI had a child and they told me
that when I had my first child, I was induced because they said the
(12:31):
baby was had, I had intouterine growth retaliation and the baby went into
fetal distress. So when she wentinto fetal distress, they had had to
have an emergency sea section and Iwas even knocked out and that kind of
thing. Fortunately she made it.Then with my second one, I knew
(12:52):
I always wanted. I said,no, I don't want to have unnecessary
sea section. And this was alsocone for my faith, you know.
And so I remember going into Iwas one, my doctor said, okay,
if you had the baby in NewJersey. I lived in New Jersey,
New Jersey because they have more nursesthan doctors, and I think it's
(13:16):
something to do with also the liabilitythey won't have. You can't have a
v back there, chances are yougoing to have a C section because many
of them, many of the doctorsin that area are not trained with forceps.
And if you're not trained properly,that is someone an uncle was giving
(13:37):
me this information. It was anobigen telling me this information. So I
went into labor. My water brokeat thirty two weeks. No, no,
not thirty two weeks. My waterbroke, and I was I went
to my hospital in New York.I was determined because when I was I
(14:00):
think thirty eight weeks and I wasable to have a v back. Had
I had that baby in New Jersey, there's no way and also has to
be a certain cut if you havea certain type of sea section. Initially
and you and oh, if Ihad just yeah, there's no way,
there's no way be back. Andthen my third she was a premie.
(14:24):
They said they had a there wasan umbilical cord around her neck, and
my water had broken already at Ithink before I was thirty weeks and I
had been in the hospital for abouttwo extra weeks. Then then they said,
no, we have to have asea section. And then I said,
I don't want to have a seasection. Then that gave me an
example of the red light yellow lightsituation. It's if it's a yellow light,
(14:48):
you risk its if it's a redlight, you know. So I
was like, but then when Iwas told the baby was not moving.
I allowed to have a sea section. That was a situation that I had
to have. But then I wasawake when I had this C section.
So different circumstances, and I can'tunderstand the different situations. Yeah, And
(15:11):
what I think a lot of peopledon't realize too, is that black women
especially are scheduled for cesareans at amuch higher rate than any other race.
Right, So yeah, you gointo with that mindset. I mean,
I had no idea the first timewhen I had my son, I had
a cesarean. It was an emergency. He was distressed, it was a
bad experience birthing wise, and itwas just the way that he needed to
(15:33):
come my daughter. However, Ihad a v back. I was very
adamant about it. I did alot of research because they fought me on
it. You had your right andthat I had to fight for it,
and they listened to you, wellto a degree. They didn't know what
I mean by they listened to you. If you know you're rights, you
(15:54):
can't speak up to it. Andif those that you passed that criteria,
you will definitely and depending on whichstate you're in, then you can say
no I want to have a vback. It's just like the kangaroo method,
the skin to skin. Not manypeople know that's the right, right.
(16:15):
Sometimes I'll say no, no,no no, But if you insist,
no, I want to carry mybaby. Even if your baby's under tube,
so many tubes they can get thatbaby out of the incubator for you
to carry that baby. Yeah,it's all right, and the outcomes are
greater if you have that skin toskin. Sure. I felt very challenged
(16:36):
though, on my process of likefighting for my v back. Like I
remember having to go get the medicalrecords from my first pregnancy and which so
they could see where my uterus wascut. And like you said, I
think so it was like it wasn'tlike okay, it was just I had
to really self advocate. But atthat point I had been through so much
with my son that I knew howto self advocate, right, And that's
(16:59):
the import and platforms like this isbecause we're teaching women how to ask the
right questions when someone tells you nowwhat you need to do to kind of
be resourceful and change that outcome ifit makes sense for you medically, it
makes sense what you're saying because Ididn't know I had the rights because my
daughter was born six years earlier viaCey section. So as soon as I
(17:21):
got pregnant with my son and theyasked me if I had a vaginal birth
or seay section, they scheduled mefor a C section automatically. I didn't
know I had the option to push. Neither did I until I read it
somewhere and I read by for it, because no one told me I didn't
have the information. So this iswhy information knowledge is very key, and
it's power for people to know youcan resist somebody calling your hope for your
(17:45):
child, especially because there's been ahuge graph first child and my second way.
So I could have actually done it, but I didn't know I had
the choice right, yes, Andto add on to that, why would
someone wonder, so what what abouta C section? You know, but
the more CEA sections you have theydiscourage you from having more kids. It
(18:07):
certainly does. So if you havea v back, it can increase your
chances of having more kids because majorsurgery, I mean a sea section is
major sur It's like seven layers ofstomach muscles that they cut through. It's
very intense and your stomach does notlook the greatest after you get right,
Because after my son, that discouragedme. And I was still saying to
(18:29):
you earlier that no more kids forme, because it wasn't a good experience,
you know, being cut to havekids first. Even when I came
out of the surgery, I couldn'tfeel my legs, so there was the
fear of am I paralyzed for life? Am I going to walk again?
So to me, that messed upthe experience, of course, and I
don't think I would go near itagain. But if I'd had like vaginal
births for the two kids, Iprobably would want more kids. But yeah,
(18:52):
yeah, same with me. Ididn't have an epidural or anything like
that. I had nothing with mydaughter. I said, I refuge because
you know, it was so traumaticwith my son. I went through pushing
trying to have him. His heartrate was dropping, there were all these
things going on, and then theyhad like they're like, all right,
we're giving you an epidural. Allright, now we're giving you a cesarean.
(19:15):
It was just so much craziness andI was like, and it's scary
because you're sitting there, you don'tknow what's going on. And then you're
being rushed into this room and Iwas awake, hatred disappeared. I remember
saying, God, may be ableto see my child. I just kept
and then the next thing, Iwas knocked out. Yeah, it's crazy.
(19:37):
And a lot of it was dueto the fact that they let me
just go way too long, beinglike like I was tired overdue. I
also think that that they induced meand that didn't help. Like, there
were so many things that were miscalculated, and I felt like I was like
a guinea pig and they were therejust trying to figure it out in the
moment, and I was like,you know, and you have nothing to
compare it to because I never hada kid before, so I'm thinking,
(20:00):
Okay, this is normal, thatthis is happening. But it was so
like the opposite of what normal shouldhave looked like. Yes, so when
I had my daughter, it wasnight and day. I was like,
wow, thank God that I knowthe difference now, right, But I
had to I had to fight forthat. I had to pick a different
provider. I had to find aprovider that looked like me, right,
(20:22):
which helped a lot, And Ifelt like she was an advocate. I
was able to pick the right hospital. I was like all the things I
didn't get to do with my sonbecause I just didn't know these were options
I got to do with my daughter. And you know, it was a
much better experience. It didn't wantmake me want to have another one,
but it was enough to say,Okay, there is a big difference when
you know what you're advocating for,and now we're passing on the information.
(20:45):
So yes, and hopefully we canhelp every other woman. Yes. And
so there's also another interesting scenario whenyou're pregnant, I mean your blood type.
Knowing your blood yes, courage negative, which is a rare black tie,
and I had to get a shotat twenty eight weeks exactly. And
(21:10):
many people don't know because about this. When you have a child to like
a fetus that is the opposite likesay B plus and your be negative,
chances that they could be an antigen and the body rejects this fetus as
a foreign object, and so youhave to get that shot, which increases
(21:33):
your chance of having other kids.So you sometimes your people who are constantly
having miscarriage. Yes, right,and even for the survival of the features
currently in the stomach as well,you need the rogam shots at twenty eight
weeks. So I think what we'retrying to highlight now is for every black
woman who's pregnant, try to findout your corriage status. If it's negative
(21:53):
or positive, ask your physician tellthem about it so they can check for
it to make sure your body's notjust in the child. Because we focused
so much on matriosis as a sourceof infertility, but this could actually also
be a source of Is this partof standard blood worker? You know they
(22:14):
test you for glucose and they testyou, so is this part of a
standard panel? I think they probablytesting for it now. But when I
have my daughter Dan, it wasn'tsomething that I've heard about. And if
my mom or my auntie didn't tellme about it, I wouldn't have for
the test to be carried out,you know, with me while I was
pregnant, and the risk of notknowing what your resource factor is. It
could lead to jundice. It couldeven lead to the child after being born
(22:38):
needing blood transfusion. Yes, yeah, yeah, I think I had a
conversation about blood type after I hadthe baby, Like right when my son
was born, they were like,you're oh negative. His I forgot what
they said he was, and thenmy husband was something else and it was
like some complication, but it waskind of like a tap line conversation and
(22:59):
then nothing happened. So I wonderif it was that it was like a
B plus as well, that waswhat's why they had to Yeah, but
it should be. My point isit should be standardized panel work, like
if you're going for a glucose testor they're testing you for all these other
things while you're pregnant, and thatshould be a phase. Black women should
request for it and discuss it withtheir physicians as well. They want to
(23:22):
find out what their I think forme, it was it was part of
the routine blood work, but Idon't know whether every place does it as
part of routine. Yeah, yeah, I think it's worth asking if talking
about because I'm looking back my grandmother, she had like nine kids, but
at some point in Nigeria, backin the days when nobody knew about this
(23:45):
issue, she would have kids andthey would die straight away. But eventually
we realz she passed it on tomy auntie. So my mom doesn't even
have their reach negative issue, soshe passed it on to my HANDTSI and
I have it as well. Sothese were issues that affected them back in
the days in Africa because no oneknew about it. She kept on losing
kids. And if technology or theinformation was out there at the time as
(24:07):
well, that could have saved youknow, potential home because the anti Yeah,
and my grandmother lost. A lotof people don't realize this rogam has
been in the existence over sixty years. That means it's known, but we
don't hear about it, which isfrightening because it's twenty twenty four. Right,
it comes back to what you weresaying, Kennya, having a physician
(24:30):
who understands the black body, havinga black physician as well, because if
it's a black physician, they'll probablyunderstand maybe this has happened to their handsy
mom or a family member or afriend that they know, so they would
need they would know to look outfor this as well. So, right,
it goes back to that point ofhaving a physician that understands how things
work. Another thing that we don'treally talk about that we don't really I
(24:57):
think doesn't come up with many atime time is the issue of food allergies.
Most times babies are screen for foodallergies at a year, that's the
recommended. But when my baby wasmy second, che was six weeks,
(25:18):
I felt she had weeping eczema andI brought it to the doctor's attention and
she's like, oh, it willget that's uh a topic? Is it
a topic? Topic? Dematitis?It will get worse before it gets better.
And I said, no, thisis not right. It's actually changed
physicians at the time because I'm like, no, something is not right.
(25:42):
Unfortunately for me, my insurance gaveme the I didn't have to get a
referral to go to specialists. SoI researched and I felt that, you
know, each time, and Iwas nursing her. Each time I gave
her certain thing I nursed after eatingcertain things, she would she would have
(26:04):
a reaction, reaction. And thenI went to a dermatologist. First,
he asked me question, I said, you know what I noticed in her
amal area. It's red and Ijust found out from googling. Interestingly,
I mean, forgive me for googling, but I did. And so he
told me, you know what,You'll probably go and see an allergist.
(26:26):
So I went and saw an allergist, and the allogist asked, me,
so, what do you think yourchild is allergic to? I said,
I think she's allergic to fish.I think she's allergic to wheat. I
think she's allergic to milk. Ithink she's allergic too. This is why
I said, because each time Ieat it, she reacts. And he's
like, hmm, it's like you'rebreastfeeding. At the time, I was
(26:47):
breastfeeding. And then he said,you know what, We'll check her and
he said she was allergic to thethings I said she was allergic to and
more. And then it's like Itold my residence to listen to what the
parents say, because the parents spenttime with these kids. Then he gave
(27:07):
an example of how he had thisSpanish mom who keptain she she didn't speak
English, but keptain saying, eachtime the child cries a lot, when
the child's about poop and the heart, the hearts, the heart would race,
and then after pooping, the childwould calm down, and everything turns
(27:29):
out that baby had a heart condition. So he emphasized the importance of listening
sometimes to parents. I know sometimesdisapparents can be a nuisense, but still
you have to listen to the parent. And my pediatrician who I moved to,
she said, in the twenty yearsshe had been a physician, she'd
never realized that allergence could be passedon their breast milk. Wow, but
(27:56):
I told her, I grew up. I said, in Uganda, there's
a time when there was a highHIV rate, and there was. They
were trying to reduce the maternal tochild HIV infection by encouraging mothers not to
breastfeed their babies if they were youknow, if they were yeah, and
(28:18):
if that was a serious situation,you know, And no, I said,
sorry, I take that back.They found that you could transmit HIV
via breastmake to the baby. Yes, And so I said, if HIV
can be transmitted via breast milk,that means allergies can be transmitted via the
(28:44):
same process. Yes. And sothe doctor's like, you know what,
You're right, And then my baby'sIG is that is the how allergic you
are was nineteen seventy nine. Foryou to be allergic anywhere from one hundred
to five hundred is high as wasnineteen seven. It's just a six week
(29:07):
baby. Then white blood cells whatteen hundred, which means she had an
infection. M So I weaned myselffrom eating the things that I was eating
that were bringing her problems and itwent to zero, I believe it.
Asked me, how was that possible? I said, I stopped eating stuff.
(29:32):
But it came from the knowledge Ihad. And that's why it's important
for us to know certain things.Yeah, and you know, listening to
the parent because we're the source ofeverything that's usually going out with the baby,
because we've gone through the whole processof carrying the baby for nine months
and now we're nursing the baby.So sometimes what we have to say gets
overlooked and it's frustrating, right,especially in these spaces where we're like,
(29:56):
I know, I know what I'mtalking about, like and you might not
be able to articulate it in thissense or well, but you know what
you're feeling, you know what yourbaby's experiencing, and so on and so
forth, like, for instance,with allergies, a screening for allergies.
Most times I'll tell you the firstbirthday when they screen for allergies, which
is I think so kind of late. But when you insists they will do
(30:18):
it. Mm hmmmm hmm. Yeah, because you don't know through the first
year what the baby, like thebaby's going through. Right now, you've
exposed the baby to all these thingsthat may not be good to its development,
and it's been going on for ayear. But again, no one's
really explaining those things or having thosekinds of conversations. I remember bringing my
kids to the pediatrician for the firsttime. It was you know, basic
(30:41):
like formula, breast smoke. Itwasn't like, Okay, what are you
eating right? Or it was alist of things you should be eating right,
but what are you really eating andis it good for your baby?
Right? So more in depth conversationsabout like what we should be ingesting and
how it infects our babies is it'scritical and knowing that you have the right
as a mom to request for certaintests to be carried out on your child.
(31:06):
It's like early intervention. Sometimes pedetrationswill say, oh, no,
I don't think your child is okay, but you're like, no, my
child needs physical therapy, who needsspeech because they're not swallowing properly or something
like that. You know something's notright, and then just have them evaluated
m h and then get services earlyon and these can help you with and
(31:33):
also knowing that you can get asecond opinion from another physician. You're not
stock or glued to one physician whois not listening to your voice, or
you're scared about your child if they'renot listening to you, you can always
change a physician and get a secondopinion, just to be you know,
to be rest as shored as amom. Right, And I would say
probably right, And you would agreethat all these experiences have aided Like you're
(31:56):
a the advisory board for the SEPSISAlliance, right, so, and you're
you know, doing work with yourpodcasts and your platform that you're building,
right, So you'd say all theseexperiences have helped your advocacy work. Yes,
Yes, it's coming from a personalplace and my experiences in life and
what I feel like my kids havegone through as well. So it's all
(32:17):
about me raising advocacy for things thatcan stop the transgenerational effects as well.
So I've done the deep work,doing all the work looking and going out
obviously through my PhD, I haveaccess to more information and being able to
carry out their appropriate research as wellto feel like I can help other people
that are in the community, andI feel like that's my gifts to other
(32:39):
movements to help people and just raiseissues where they would normally not be privy
of what the information is or theresolve the or the information to help them
be better as well. So yeah, that's great, absolutely. And I
had a child who had my youngestas at four days old, fortunately for
(33:00):
her. In her case, adad was a physician and he noticed that
under the blue lights she had joundice, that her fingers were black, her
fingertips, and then he said,you know what, find out from the
physician, I mean attending what theproblem is. We first thought it was
(33:20):
tightened maybe poor blood flow, andthen we realized and that the physicians know
the fact that some of all fingers, she probably is battling an infection,
and they automatically started giving her antibioticsand while they were waiting on her lab
(33:42):
work and furthermore, It's also sothat for me was something that we were
fortunate that we were at New YorkPresbyterian Morgan Stanley Hospital. We had top
notch healthcare, the best doctors,and so but I like to share my
(34:04):
experiences so that people might be awareof some of these situations and I was
just have that this is where wesometimes say we don't realize we have privilege
privileges. And turns out I'm havinga conversation with a friend of mine who's
an infectious disease doctor, one ofthe top in the country, and she's
(34:27):
like, wait a minute. Thenext thing, she nominates me to the
Sepsis Alliance, you know, andshe's also a part of it, And
she said, because of being athey need a minority voice as well,
because in the Black community as wellas the other minority communities, people are
(34:51):
not aware of sepsis. I hadnever heard of sepsist until I had met
you. Yeah, and so there'seven a Sepsis our Awareness Week, Maternal
Secscess Week coming up, Yes,coming up on May twelfth to May eighteen,
Yes, yeah, bringing awareness toit. And this is why representation
(35:15):
matters, and as Black women inour sisterhood, we deserve and should demand
a seat at the table, becauseif we're not in the right table or
we don't have a seat at thetable, how are we going to represent
our voices or voices of the peopleof our people. So it comes down
to sister with again, knowledge youknow, passing down the knowledge that we
(35:36):
understand and whole working hard as wellto realize that we need representation. We
need people like you on the boardto be able to represent us and come
back and share the information with otherpeople as well so we can learn and
know all this information. So representationabsolutely. And to your point about a
representation floating each other's names to boards, because this was a sister who's actually
(36:01):
Asian who nominated me to the sport, you know. So it's about pushing
one another yes to places wha youand advocate for others and learning from one
another an allyship. Yes, that'sgreat. I was actually looking for a
quote and I couldn't find it enoughtime. But let me see if I
(36:25):
can uh get to a quick onmy page without making a bunch of noise.
It was a quote about powerful peopleand it says that powerful people cannot
afford to educate the people they oppressbecause once you are truly educated, you
will not ask for power, youwill take it. Yes, and that's
John Henrik Clark. Yes, absolutely, and that's what I'm saying. We
(36:50):
have to demand and sit at thetable and even if it's not being given
to them, to us, Yeah, or build a new one. Sometimes
you have to build your own table, and that's okay because if you're building
the right table, the right peoplewill come along and have a c Yes,
yes, yes, well, Iappreciate you all coming and having a
seat here at me Eternal today oniHeartRadio. I appreciate your insight, your
(37:15):
expertise. Where can everyone get incontact with you both? Well, my
instagram is doctor Risakatbasari and once mypodcast launch is going to be called The
Women's Chronicles as well, so yeah, awesome. I can also be reached
busy matsico and then on LinkedIn aswell as busy motsico and then on the
(37:39):
Instagram and Facebook as well. Great, well, thank you for sitting here
at me Turnal today. Hopefully you'llboth come back and we can continue our
conversation. There's lots more to talkabout, absolutely, and please check out
the Stepsist Alliance. Very important,very important. Well, thank you ladies,
appreciate your work. You you're listeningto Me Eternal on iHeartRadio. I
(38:01):
am Kenya Gibson. Until next time, Thank you, thank you all right, I
I think the psychology that's behind,right, seeing somebody that comes in with
a white coat, and that trustfactor that's not there amongst us, right,
which is what this podcast is allabout. And this conversation is going
to be about today because we havetwo beautiful black mothers that are here with
us today. I'm eternal welcome.So why don't you both introduce yourselves and
(00:22):
then we'll, you know, continuethe conversation. Okay, hi everyone,
thank you for the opportunity to behere today. Kenya. So my name
is doctor ricak Adversari and I'm amom of two. I have a teten
year old daughter and a six yearsold boy as well. That's great,
And you have a podcast too thatyou do well. I have a podcast
that I'm starting. It's called TheWomen's Chronicles, which is to raise advocacy
(00:44):
on issues that affects the black community. So something like parentification, which essentially
means a child taking on the adultrole in a household. So when you're
looking at a single mother black familyin the United States, for example,
when the single is that she's probablyoverwhelmed doing all the work by herself at
home, and she probably enlisted thehelp of the first child to help her
(01:07):
in taking care of the remaining children. So statistics and research has showed that
this actually has adverse effects on thechildren. And when you're looking at the
black boys as well in the UnitedStates, those that are you know,
being sen sentenced to prison, mostof them, when you carry out something
called the genogram or a root cossetanalysis, you realize that they entered into
a life of crime not because theywanted to do that, but because there's
(01:30):
an absence of a father figure ora male figure in their lives, and
they're trying to help their mom interms of bringing money home to help them,
and by so doing, they endup mixing with the wrong crowd and
the end up you know, endup in the system, and it's a
lose lose situation for this kind ofboys, where the system should actually be
looking at how they got there andhelping them, helping their mom and putting
(01:51):
in place policies that can help singleblack mothers to be better and help their
children as well. So, yeah, that's a great explanation and analogy,
right, And I haven't heard thatterm parentification. Yes, parentification, some
research college adultification as well, Soessentially growing up too fast in scenarios with
(02:13):
girls. Some girls that are beingparentified can handle being promiscussed in terms of
having sex at a young age endup being mothers from a very young age
as well. And this is becausethe love that they're lacking at home,
they go out and look for itand the wrong people and even the ones
that are not affected as a youngchild, you know, growing up as
an adult, they end up gettingmarried to partners who's going to rely on
(02:37):
them and need them, and there'san imbalance in the relationship. So eventually
one day they get you know,something snaps in their head. They get
tired of just being there for everybody. So looking at the giving tree analogy,
you keep giving people, keep takingand taking and taking, and until
you're empty. So these are thekind of issues that we need to raise
more advocation for in the Black communityamongst mothers as well, because as mothers,
(03:00):
we don't want to harm our children, but we don't know that we're
doing it. So these are thekind of issues we need to raise raise
advocation for. There's another thing thatI'm really really passionate about. It's called
the adverse childhood experience, which talksabout the trauma that you experience as a
child can have adverse effects on yourhealth later on in life. So there's
a positive correlation with you know,living in a house where there's an absent
(03:23):
father or a family member, goingto jail, experiencing your mom being beaten,
domestic violence, emotional abuse, physicalabuse. So there's ten categories and
the Adverse Childhood Experience study. Sothe higher the category that you can relate
to, the more the positive correlationof having issues like cancer, immune immune
(03:44):
issues when you when you're holder lateron in life. So there's a lot
of things that I just feel likein the black community, we need to
tell mothers self care, self care, self care, take care of yourself,
make sure that you're healing from traumasproperly and you're helping your children heal
as well. And we're not alsounintentionally damaging our children without realizing that we're
doing it. Wow, that's powerful. Yes, very much so. And
(04:10):
boosy, Yes, I'm boosy,as you've mentioned, Kenya, nice to
be on your show again. Iam a mother of three girls. My
oldest sister thirty fourteen, and thenI have a twelve year old and six
year old and yes, we've beenthrough this journey before, but I'm wearing
(04:33):
a different hat today. I'm wearinga hat of a mom. You know,
I'm a consultant, but I'm wearinga hat of a mom. I'm
also on the advisory board of theSepsis Alliance, which brings awareness to sepsis.
And in this case, we'll talkabout maternal sepsis, which is a
(04:55):
life threatening medical emergency defined as organdysfunction resulting from infection during pregnancy, childbirth,
miscourage, or the postpartent period.And yeah, it's just why don't
have these conversations on our pregnancy experiencesand what some people who are looking to
(05:15):
get pregnant or have children or whohave historically had miscourages could look out for
to help bridge this gap, inthis this disparasy, in this the bridge
the gap this disparacy. Yeah,you know what's interesting is I feel like
the common thread and the common themeamongst all these things is trauma. Yes,
(05:43):
right, And how do we unpackthat trauma right individually? How do
we unpack that trauma as a community, and what the resolve of that looks
like? Right, Because when youtake a look at Black maternal health,
and you take a look at parentification, yes, right, and you see,
you know, the issues that aregoing on, even with sepsis,
(06:03):
which is a very traumatic experience.Right, it seems as though there's this
just lineage of problems within our communitythat are all innertide and just are unfortunately
very cohesive. At the core,it's transgenerational. So with some of the
psychologists and the subject matter expects thatI've spoken to, So when they carry
(06:26):
out a genogram of anybody, achild or a mother that has experienced trauma
and is the experience that they hadvast effects of the trauma on their body,
they trace it back three generations andwhen they do a genogram looking at
the family tree, they realize thesame issue, the same trauma was experienced
by the great grandmother, the grandmother, the mom. And if care is
not taken, if the transgenerational traumais not broken right now, it's gonna
(06:48):
keep happening and it's gonna happen tothe child and the children's are coming.
So it's something that in the blackcommunity, we really need to raise my
awareness for transgenerational trauma, how wecan heal from it and let people know
about it. Because a lot ofpeople don't even know about this information.
They don't know about it. Soif they don't know about it, how
can they know of the ealing mechanismsor the informations that are how there for
(07:12):
them to get help and be betterand do better. Yeah, yeah,
I mean it comes back to knowledge. And when we talk about knowledge being
aware, where can we get thisinformation? What information is out there?
What statistics affect minorities or not necessarilyminorities people in general, Like for instance,
(07:39):
they say black women are three pointthree times more likely to die from
pregnancy related causes than white women inthe US, and then Native American as
well as Native Alaskan women at twopoint five times more likely to die from
these complications. So and for me, I think it's what your level of
(08:05):
education is also could help could helpin this. But besides that, community
organizations that help bring awareness to someof these causes, like for instance,
you work with much of Dimes andthat brings awareness to the situation with regarding
premature babies. I mean I wasa premature baby myself and my mom had
(08:28):
about three premieres right, and myyoungest is a premier. But guess what,
I think that knowledge makes gives mehope that you know what, the
outcomes of premius today are higher thanthey used to be before. And then
when people hear the word premature,they get scared. They think there is
(08:50):
no hope at all. And yetmedical science has come a long way and
the outcomes phenomenal. But it comesback too knowledge because if you know about
that, oh, you're having interuterine growth retiation and it's your high risk
pregnancy, you're having a high riskpregnancy, you'll take necessary steps to improve
(09:15):
the outcomes of your baby. Butif you don't know, you won't make
certain amends or certain things you needto do to improve these outcomes. And
you see a vicious cycle, right. And what's interesting is just going back
to the transgenerational trauma that you weretalking about, Like you mentioned that your
(09:35):
mother had had premature babies, right, And we were talking earlier about having
cesarean sections and having a vback andlike that physical trauma that our bodies go
through, is that cannot be tiedback to transgenerational trauma. Well, it
can be tied back to it.Because this is why I really appreciate what
(09:56):
you're doing with the Maternal Podcast,because you're daf percentend knowledge to people who
would normally not have be prevy ofthis information. And this is why we
need the sisterhood of people like yourselflike Boosted to enlighten people and say okay,
looking at their community. These arethe things that you need to know
about when you're pregnant. These arethe things you need to talk to your
doctor about when you go to thedoctors or your physician, to talk to
(10:18):
them, to review your medical record, to review what you tell them,
what has happened to your mom aswell, because they can carry a proper
genogram and some things can actually beeffect of. Some things can actually be
eradicated by just doing that. Sotrauma as well, it's all related to
the trauma because if my mom didnot know of the knowledge, she's not
going to pass it down to me. So right now, looking at the
(10:41):
United States, and average single motherdon't even have a health insurance. So
if they're not going to the doctors, where are they going to know or
be prevy of this information that we'retrying to shape. But some of them
have Internet because something like in NewYork they have their Affordability Connectivity Service which
gives law income families access to freeinternet. So a mother like the single
(11:03):
mother who doesn't have internet or whodoesn't have access to good healthcare insurance,
they have internet. So that meansthey have the opportunity to listen to a
podcast like Maternal Be Enlightened and theycan know that the right things to do
and get better and heal from thistransit generational trauma as well. Yeah,
you maybe think about something else too, because we're talking about having a v
(11:26):
back after cesarean and I know youhad had a vback after Syrians. So
interesting because depending on the state you'rein, you can or cannot have a
v back. And so for instance, so back to my situation with my
mom had me when she was ina comma and she had traveled to Kenya
(11:46):
and contracted malaria and child celebrate malaria. In South Africa, they don't they
didn't have malaria, but they hadvery advanced medical health care health care services,
and so she was able to comeout of that situation and I was
born. The good thing. WhenI had they kept on saying, my
(12:07):
baby, I was carrying small babies. My mom's like, but oh,
my kids were small, don't worryabout it. So because she had this
knowledge, she was able to reassureme and that, oh, come on,
ignore the doctors. None of yourbabies will be just fine. But
back to the v back. SoI had a child and they told me
that when I had my first child, I was induced because they said the
(12:31):
baby was had, I had intouterine growth retaliation and the baby went into
fetal distress. So when she wentinto fetal distress, they had had to
have an emergency sea section and Iwas even knocked out and that kind of
thing. Fortunately she made it.Then with my second one, I knew
(12:52):
I always wanted. I said,no, I don't want to have unnecessary
sea section. And this was alsocone for my faith, you know.
And so I remember going into Iwas one, my doctor said, okay,
if you had the baby in NewJersey. I lived in New Jersey,
New Jersey because they have more nursesthan doctors, and I think it's
(13:16):
something to do with also the liabilitythey won't have. You can't have a
v back there, chances are yougoing to have a C section because many
of them, many of the doctorsin that area are not trained with forceps.
And if you're not trained properly,that is someone an uncle was giving
(13:37):
me this information. It was anobigen telling me this information. So I
went into labor. My water brokeat thirty two weeks. No, no,
not thirty two weeks. My waterbroke, and I was I went
to my hospital in New York.I was determined because when I was I
(14:00):
think thirty eight weeks and I wasable to have a v back. Had
I had that baby in New Jersey, there's no way and also has to
be a certain cut if you havea certain type of sea section. Initially
and you and oh, if Ihad just yeah, there's no way,
there's no way be back. Andthen my third she was a premie.
(14:24):
They said they had a there wasan umbilical cord around her neck, and
my water had broken already at Ithink before I was thirty weeks and I
had been in the hospital for abouttwo extra weeks. Then then they said,
no, we have to have asea section. And then I said,
I don't want to have a seasection. Then that gave me an
example of the red light yellow lightsituation. It's if it's a yellow light,
(14:48):
you risk its if it's a redlight, you know. So I
was like, but then when Iwas told the baby was not moving.
I allowed to have a sea section. That was a situation that I had
to have. But then I wasawake when I had this C section.
So different circumstances, and I can'tunderstand the different situations. Yeah, And
(15:11):
what I think a lot of peopledon't realize too, is that black women
especially are scheduled for cesareans at amuch higher rate than any other race.
Right, So yeah, you gointo with that mindset. I mean,
I had no idea the first timewhen I had my son, I had
a cesarean. It was an emergency. He was distressed, it was a
bad experience birthing wise, and itwas just the way that he needed to
(15:33):
come my daughter. However, Ihad a v back. I was very
adamant about it. I did alot of research because they fought me on
it. You had your right andthat I had to fight for it,
and they listened to you, wellto a degree. They didn't know what
I mean by they listened to you. If you know you're rights, you
(15:54):
can't speak up to it. Andif those that you passed that criteria,
you will definitely and depending on whichstate you're in, then you can say
no I want to have a vback. It's just like the kangaroo method,
the skin to skin. Not manypeople know that's the right, right.
(16:15):
Sometimes I'll say no, no,no no, But if you insist,
no, I want to carry mybaby. Even if your baby's under tube,
so many tubes they can get thatbaby out of the incubator for you
to carry that baby. Yeah,it's all right, and the outcomes are
greater if you have that skin toskin. Sure. I felt very challenged
(16:36):
though, on my process of likefighting for my v back. Like I
remember having to go get the medicalrecords from my first pregnancy and which so
they could see where my uterus wascut. And like you said, I
think so it was like it wasn'tlike okay, it was just I had
to really self advocate. But atthat point I had been through so much
with my son that I knew howto self advocate, right, And that's
(16:59):
the import and platforms like this isbecause we're teaching women how to ask the
right questions when someone tells you nowwhat you need to do to kind of
be resourceful and change that outcome ifit makes sense for you medically, it
makes sense what you're saying because Ididn't know I had the rights because my
daughter was born six years earlier viaCey section. So as soon as I
(17:21):
got pregnant with my son and theyasked me if I had a vaginal birth
or seay section, they scheduled mefor a C section automatically. I didn't
know I had the option to push. Neither did I until I read it
somewhere and I read by for it, because no one told me I didn't
have the information. So this iswhy information knowledge is very key, and
it's power for people to know youcan resist somebody calling your hope for your
(17:45):
child, especially because there's been ahuge graph first child and my second way.
So I could have actually done it, but I didn't know I had
the choice right, yes, Andto add on to that, why would
someone wonder, so what what abouta C section? You know, but
the more CEA sections you have theydiscourage you from having more kids. It
(18:07):
certainly does. So if you havea v back, it can increase your
chances of having more kids because majorsurgery, I mean a sea section is
major sur It's like seven layers ofstomach muscles that they cut through. It's
very intense and your stomach does notlook the greatest after you get right,
Because after my son, that discouragedme. And I was still saying to
(18:29):
you earlier that no more kids forme, because it wasn't a good experience,
you know, being cut to havekids first. Even when I came
out of the surgery, I couldn'tfeel my legs, so there was the
fear of am I paralyzed for life? Am I going to walk again?
So to me, that messed upthe experience, of course, and I
don't think I would go near itagain. But if I'd had like vaginal
births for the two kids, Iprobably would want more kids. But yeah,
(18:52):
yeah, same with me. Ididn't have an epidural or anything like
that. I had nothing with mydaughter. I said, I refuge because
you know, it was so traumaticwith my son. I went through pushing
trying to have him. His heartrate was dropping, there were all these
things going on, and then theyhad like they're like, all right,
we're giving you an epidural. Allright, now we're giving you a cesarean.
(19:15):
It was just so much craziness andI was like, and it's scary
because you're sitting there, you don'tknow what's going on. And then you're
being rushed into this room and Iwas awake, hatred disappeared. I remember
saying, God, may be ableto see my child. I just kept
and then the next thing, Iwas knocked out. Yeah, it's crazy.
(19:37):
And a lot of it was dueto the fact that they let me
just go way too long, beinglike like I was tired overdue. I
also think that that they induced meand that didn't help. Like, there
were so many things that were miscalculated, and I felt like I was like
a guinea pig and they were therejust trying to figure it out in the
moment, and I was like,you know, and you have nothing to
compare it to because I never hada kid before, so I'm thinking,
(20:00):
Okay, this is normal, thatthis is happening. But it was so
like the opposite of what normal shouldhave looked like. Yes, so when
I had my daughter, it wasnight and day. I was like,
wow, thank God that I knowthe difference now, right, But I
had to I had to fight forthat. I had to pick a different
provider. I had to find aprovider that looked like me, right,
(20:22):
which helped a lot, And Ifelt like she was an advocate. I
was able to pick the right hospital. I was like all the things I
didn't get to do with my sonbecause I just didn't know these were options
I got to do with my daughter. And you know, it was a
much better experience. It didn't wantmake me want to have another one,
but it was enough to say,Okay, there is a big difference when
you know what you're advocating for,and now we're passing on the information.
(20:45):
So yes, and hopefully we canhelp every other woman. Yes. And
so there's also another interesting scenario whenyou're pregnant, I mean your blood type.
Knowing your blood yes, courage negative, which is a rare black tie,
and I had to get a shotat twenty eight weeks exactly. And
(21:10):
many people don't know because about this. When you have a child to like
a fetus that is the opposite likesay B plus and your be negative,
chances that they could be an antigen and the body rejects this fetus as
a foreign object, and so youhave to get that shot, which increases
(21:33):
your chance of having other kids.So you sometimes your people who are constantly
having miscarriage. Yes, right,and even for the survival of the features
currently in the stomach as well,you need the rogam shots at twenty eight
weeks. So I think what we'retrying to highlight now is for every black
woman who's pregnant, try to findout your corriage status. If it's negative
(21:53):
or positive, ask your physician tellthem about it so they can check for
it to make sure your body's notjust in the child. Because we focused
so much on matriosis as a sourceof infertility, but this could actually also
be a source of Is this partof standard blood worker? You know they
(22:14):
test you for glucose and they testyou, so is this part of a
standard panel? I think they probablytesting for it now. But when I
have my daughter Dan, it wasn'tsomething that I've heard about. And if
my mom or my auntie didn't tellme about it, I wouldn't have for
the test to be carried out,you know, with me while I was
pregnant, and the risk of notknowing what your resource factor is. It
could lead to jundice. It couldeven lead to the child after being born
(22:38):
needing blood transfusion. Yes, yeah, yeah, I think I had a
conversation about blood type after I hadthe baby, Like right when my son
was born, they were like,you're oh negative. His I forgot what
they said he was, and thenmy husband was something else and it was
like some complication, but it waskind of like a tap line conversation and
(22:59):
then nothing happened. So I wonderif it was that it was like a
B plus as well, that waswhat's why they had to Yeah, but
it should be. My point isit should be standardized panel work, like
if you're going for a glucose testor they're testing you for all these other
things while you're pregnant, and thatshould be a phase. Black women should
request for it and discuss it withtheir physicians as well. They want to
(23:22):
find out what their I think forme, it was it was part of
the routine blood work, but Idon't know whether every place does it as
part of routine. Yeah, yeah, I think it's worth asking if talking
about because I'm looking back my grandmother, she had like nine kids, but
at some point in Nigeria, backin the days when nobody knew about this
(23:45):
issue, she would have kids andthey would die straight away. But eventually
we realz she passed it on tomy auntie. So my mom doesn't even
have their reach negative issue, soshe passed it on to my HANDTSI and
I have it as well. Sothese were issues that affected them back in
the days in Africa because no oneknew about it. She kept on losing
kids. And if technology or theinformation was out there at the time as
(24:07):
well, that could have saved youknow, potential home because the anti Yeah,
and my grandmother lost. A lotof people don't realize this rogam has
been in the existence over sixty years. That means it's known, but we
don't hear about it, which isfrightening because it's twenty twenty four. Right,
it comes back to what you weresaying, Kennya, having a physician
(24:30):
who understands the black body, havinga black physician as well, because if
it's a black physician, they'll probablyunderstand maybe this has happened to their handsy
mom or a family member or afriend that they know, so they would
need they would know to look outfor this as well. So, right,
it goes back to that point ofhaving a physician that understands how things
work. Another thing that we don'treally talk about that we don't really I
(24:57):
think doesn't come up with many atime time is the issue of food allergies.
Most times babies are screen for foodallergies at a year, that's the
recommended. But when my baby wasmy second, che was six weeks,
(25:18):
I felt she had weeping eczema andI brought it to the doctor's attention and
she's like, oh, it willget that's uh a topic? Is it
a topic? Topic? Dematitis?It will get worse before it gets better.
And I said, no, thisis not right. It's actually changed
physicians at the time because I'm like, no, something is not right.
(25:42):
Unfortunately for me, my insurance gaveme the I didn't have to get a
referral to go to specialists. SoI researched and I felt that, you
know, each time, and Iwas nursing her. Each time I gave
her certain thing I nursed after eatingcertain things, she would she would have
(26:04):
a reaction, reaction. And thenI went to a dermatologist. First,
he asked me question, I said, you know what I noticed in her
amal area. It's red and Ijust found out from googling. Interestingly,
I mean, forgive me for googling, but I did. And so he
told me, you know what,You'll probably go and see an allergist.
(26:26):
So I went and saw an allergist, and the allogist asked, me,
so, what do you think yourchild is allergic to? I said,
I think she's allergic to fish.I think she's allergic to wheat. I
think she's allergic to milk. Ithink she's allergic too. This is why
I said, because each time Ieat it, she reacts. And he's
like, hmm, it's like you'rebreastfeeding. At the time, I was
(26:47):
breastfeeding. And then he said,you know what, We'll check her and
he said she was allergic to thethings I said she was allergic to and
more. And then it's like Itold my residence to listen to what the
parents say, because the parents spenttime with these kids. Then he gave
(27:07):
an example of how he had thisSpanish mom who keptain she she didn't speak
English, but keptain saying, eachtime the child cries a lot, when
the child's about poop and the heart, the hearts, the heart would race,
and then after pooping, the childwould calm down, and everything turns
(27:29):
out that baby had a heart condition. So he emphasized the importance of listening
sometimes to parents. I know sometimesdisapparents can be a nuisense, but still
you have to listen to the parent. And my pediatrician who I moved to,
she said, in the twenty yearsshe had been a physician, she'd
never realized that allergence could be passedon their breast milk. Wow, but
(27:56):
I told her, I grew up. I said, in Uganda, there's
a time when there was a highHIV rate, and there was. They
were trying to reduce the maternal tochild HIV infection by encouraging mothers not to
breastfeed their babies if they were youknow, if they were yeah, and
(28:18):
if that was a serious situation,you know, And no, I said,
sorry, I take that back.They found that you could transmit HIV
via breastmake to the baby. Yes, And so I said, if HIV
can be transmitted via breast milk,that means allergies can be transmitted via the
(28:44):
same process. Yes. And sothe doctor's like, you know what,
You're right, And then my baby'sIG is that is the how allergic you
are was nineteen seventy nine. Foryou to be allergic anywhere from one hundred
to five hundred is high as wasnineteen seven. It's just a six week
(29:07):
baby. Then white blood cells whatteen hundred, which means she had an
infection. M So I weaned myselffrom eating the things that I was eating
that were bringing her problems and itwent to zero, I believe it.
Asked me, how was that possible? I said, I stopped eating stuff.
(29:32):
But it came from the knowledge Ihad. And that's why it's important
for us to know certain things.Yeah, and you know, listening to
the parent because we're the source ofeverything that's usually going out with the baby,
because we've gone through the whole processof carrying the baby for nine months
and now we're nursing the baby.So sometimes what we have to say gets
overlooked and it's frustrating, right,especially in these spaces where we're like,
(29:56):
I know, I know what I'mtalking about, like and you might not
be able to articulate it in thissense or well, but you know what
you're feeling, you know what yourbaby's experiencing, and so on and so
forth, like, for instance,with allergies, a screening for allergies.
Most times I'll tell you the firstbirthday when they screen for allergies, which
is I think so kind of late. But when you insists they will do
(30:18):
it. Mm hmmmm hmm. Yeah, because you don't know through the first
year what the baby, like thebaby's going through. Right now, you've
exposed the baby to all these thingsthat may not be good to its development,
and it's been going on for ayear. But again, no one's
really explaining those things or having thosekinds of conversations. I remember bringing my
kids to the pediatrician for the firsttime. It was you know, basic
(30:41):
like formula, breast smoke. Itwasn't like, Okay, what are you
eating right? Or it was alist of things you should be eating right,
but what are you really eating andis it good for your baby?
Right? So more in depth conversationsabout like what we should be ingesting and
how it infects our babies is it'scritical and knowing that you have the right
as a mom to request for certaintests to be carried out on your child.
(31:06):
It's like early intervention. Sometimes pedetrationswill say, oh, no,
I don't think your child is okay, but you're like, no, my
child needs physical therapy, who needsspeech because they're not swallowing properly or something
like that. You know something's notright, and then just have them evaluated
m h and then get services earlyon and these can help you with and
(31:33):
also knowing that you can get asecond opinion from another physician. You're not
stock or glued to one physician whois not listening to your voice, or
you're scared about your child if they'renot listening to you, you can always
change a physician and get a secondopinion, just to be you know,
to be rest as shored as amom. Right, And I would say
probably right, And you would agreethat all these experiences have aided Like you're
(31:56):
a the advisory board for the SEPSISAlliance, right, so, and you're
you know, doing work with yourpodcasts and your platform that you're building,
right, So you'd say all theseexperiences have helped your advocacy work. Yes,
Yes, it's coming from a personalplace and my experiences in life and
what I feel like my kids havegone through as well. So it's all
(32:17):
about me raising advocacy for things thatcan stop the transgenerational effects as well.
So I've done the deep work,doing all the work looking and going out
obviously through my PhD, I haveaccess to more information and being able to
carry out their appropriate research as wellto feel like I can help other people
that are in the community, andI feel like that's my gifts to other
(32:39):
movements to help people and just raiseissues where they would normally not be privy
of what the information is or theresolve the or the information to help them
be better as well. So yeah, that's great, absolutely. And I
had a child who had my youngestas at four days old, fortunately for
(33:00):
her. In her case, adad was a physician and he noticed that
under the blue lights she had joundice, that her fingers were black, her
fingertips, and then he said,you know what, find out from the
physician, I mean attending what theproblem is. We first thought it was
(33:20):
tightened maybe poor blood flow, andthen we realized and that the physicians know
the fact that some of all fingers, she probably is battling an infection,
and they automatically started giving her antibioticsand while they were waiting on her lab
(33:42):
work and furthermore, It's also sothat for me was something that we were
fortunate that we were at New YorkPresbyterian Morgan Stanley Hospital. We had top
notch healthcare, the best doctors,and so but I like to share my
(34:04):
experiences so that people might be awareof some of these situations and I was
just have that this is where wesometimes say we don't realize we have privilege
privileges. And turns out I'm havinga conversation with a friend of mine who's
an infectious disease doctor, one ofthe top in the country, and she's
(34:27):
like, wait a minute. Thenext thing, she nominates me to the
Sepsis Alliance, you know, andshe's also a part of it, And
she said, because of being athey need a minority voice as well,
because in the Black community as wellas the other minority communities, people are
(34:51):
not aware of sepsis. I hadnever heard of sepsist until I had met
you. Yeah, and so there'seven a Sepsis our Awareness Week, Maternal
Secscess Week coming up, Yes,coming up on May twelfth to May eighteen,
Yes, yeah, bringing awareness toit. And this is why representation
(35:15):
matters, and as Black women inour sisterhood, we deserve and should demand
a seat at the table, becauseif we're not in the right table or
we don't have a seat at thetable, how are we going to represent
our voices or voices of the peopleof our people. So it comes down
to sister with again, knowledge youknow, passing down the knowledge that we
(35:36):
understand and whole working hard as wellto realize that we need representation. We
need people like you on the boardto be able to represent us and come
back and share the information with otherpeople as well so we can learn and
know all this information. So representationabsolutely. And to your point about a
representation floating each other's names to boards, because this was a sister who's actually
(36:01):
Asian who nominated me to the sport, you know. So it's about pushing
one another yes to places wha youand advocate for others and learning from one
another an allyship. Yes, that'sgreat. I was actually looking for a
quote and I couldn't find it enoughtime. But let me see if I
(36:25):
can uh get to a quick onmy page without making a bunch of noise.
It was a quote about powerful peopleand it says that powerful people cannot
afford to educate the people they oppressbecause once you are truly educated, you
will not ask for power, youwill take it. Yes, and that's
John Henrik Clark. Yes, absolutely, and that's what I'm saying. We
(36:50):
have to demand and sit at thetable and even if it's not being given
to them, to us, Yeah, or build a new one. Sometimes
you have to build your own table, and that's okay because if you're building
the right table, the right peoplewill come along and have a c Yes,
yes, yes, well, Iappreciate you all coming and having a
seat here at me Eternal today oniHeartRadio. I appreciate your insight, your
(37:15):
expertise. Where can everyone get incontact with you both? Well, my
instagram is doctor Risakatbasari and once mypodcast launch is going to be called The
Women's Chronicles as well, so yeah, awesome. I can also be reached
busy matsico and then on LinkedIn aswell as busy motsico and then on the
(37:39):
Instagram and Facebook as well. Great, well, thank you for sitting here
at me Turnal today. Hopefully you'llboth come back and we can continue our
conversation. There's lots more to talkabout, absolutely, and please check out
the Stepsist Alliance. Very important,very important. Well, thank you ladies,
appreciate your work. You you're listeningto Me Eternal on iHeartRadio. I
(38:01):
am Kenya Gibson. Until next time, Thank you, thank you all right, I
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