March 5, 2025 • 50 mins
Join us on this explosive episode of "The Babyfaces Podcast" as we sit down with the one and only Eric Bischoff, the mastermind behind some of the most iconic moments in professional wrestling history!
We dive into the world of sports entertainment, discussing the shocking John Cena heel turn at Elimination Chamber and what it takes to craft a compelling narrative that keeps fans on the edge of their seats.
But that's not all - we also take a trip down memory lane, exploring Eric's creative vision behind the groundbreaking nWo storyline in the 1990s. Find out what inspired this game-changing angle and how it helped WCW take the fight to WWE.
And speaking of competition, Eric opens up about his bold approach to targeting a specific audience demographic, taking on the WWE behemoth and pushing the boundaries of what was thought possible in professional wrestling.
Don't miss this rare opportunity to step into the mind of a wrestling genius and relive some of the most pivotal moments in the sport's history. Tune in now and join the conversation!
Follow us for more exclusive interviews and wrestling analysis!
Follow Eric on the 83 Weeks Podcast w/ Conrad Thompson and check out what hes doing on 83weeks.com
We dive into the world of sports entertainment, discussing the shocking John Cena heel turn at Elimination Chamber and what it takes to craft a compelling narrative that keeps fans on the edge of their seats.
But that's not all - we also take a trip down memory lane, exploring Eric's creative vision behind the groundbreaking nWo storyline in the 1990s. Find out what inspired this game-changing angle and how it helped WCW take the fight to WWE.
And speaking of competition, Eric opens up about his bold approach to targeting a specific audience demographic, taking on the WWE behemoth and pushing the boundaries of what was thought possible in professional wrestling.
Don't miss this rare opportunity to step into the mind of a wrestling genius and relive some of the most pivotal moments in the sport's history. Tune in now and join the conversation!
Follow us for more exclusive interviews and wrestling analysis!
Follow Eric on the 83 Weeks Podcast w/ Conrad Thompson and check out what hes doing on 83weeks.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, this is the American Nightmare Cody Rosen and
you are listening to the Babyfaces on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey guys, this is ww superstar timpy Stron and you're
listening to the Babyfaces on iHeartRadio. What's going on, y'all?
Is WWE superstar Kobe Kingston.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
You're listening to the Babyfaces on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Babyaby, what's up? Guys?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
You hear that music that means we're back.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
It's the Babyfaces podcast on iHeartRadio powered by Sports Talk
seven ninety in Louisville. Appreciate you, guys, turning in back
with another episode, another special guests. We're fully staffed with
our guy Billy Prickett here and stop me if you've
heard this name before. We are here with wrestling legend,
former WCW and and WWE. We got Eric Bischoff on
(01:04):
the show. Who would have ever thought when we started
this off we'd be making our way up to some
of the top guys in the wrestling industry and some
of the most influential people that happen to be in
the industry.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Eric, what's going on? My friend? How you doing? Thank
you for your time?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Oh, I'm happy to be here, guys. I appreciate the invitation.
And Austin and I understand this is the baby Face podcast,
you don't fall into that category. But Billy the Kid,
on the other hand, Yeah, he looks like the twelve
year old kid that comes her. You just love the kid.
You want to hugure. He's out hustling. So I'll go
with Billy the Kid definitely a babyface. Austin, you're kind
(01:39):
of a verge of kind of you get that helot
going on.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
That's what Billy always says. I'm the one that's getting
in fights on Twitter with people. Billy likes to keep
it professional and he's got he's got to pull me
back in a little bit.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
So you're not the first one to say that.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
All right, Well, you mentioned my age, Eric, I'm twenty seven.
A lot of people don't believe that. I think I'm
a lot younger. But I did get into wrestling kind
of later in my life, you know, kind of like
heading into my teens and around like two thousand and seven,
two thousand and eight, kind of the end of that
ruthless aggression era. So I didn't really get to know
you as an on screen character. Obviously I've learned up
(02:14):
on my wrestling history since then, but I did want
to ask you, you know, for people like me, what
what And I'm kind of putting you on the spot
here with this one, but what are some like moments
and matches that really I missed out on seeing live
when getting into wrestling that late, Like, what are some
of your moments?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Oh? There's so many, you know, and depending on the
day and my mood, sometimes they kind of change order
of hierarchy and our priority. But you know, obviously the
Hogan heel turn probably will always be at the top
of the list. It's I mean, it was so iconic
that even today, in fact tonight, I haven't watched the
(02:54):
scene heel turn yet. Oh i was traveling all last
weekend and I'm going to a reaction to it tonight
over eighty three weeks dot Com, which is Wednesday night
as we're recording this. And I know the Hogan turn
(03:15):
was so iconic that people are still talking about it
to this day. So it's not just me because I
happen to be there, but it's it was a big moment.
It's gonna be hard for me to top that. But
there are a lot of other moments that maybe weren't
just big in terms of their impact, but to me
personally kind of meant a little bit more. One example
(03:39):
would be it was ninety seven, I get the years
mixed up. It's been a minute when we had Carl
Malone and Dennis Rodman. They're in the NBA Finals, they're
playing for the championship. I've got them both booked on
a pay per view shortly thereafter. And I how I
(04:00):
say this, I revealed, not revealed. I discussed the option
of perhaps creating a little bit of controversy because we
all know it creates cash. And I said, guys, I'm
not suggesting you do this, but you know, if per se,
you're off the court, so nothing affects the outcome of
(04:23):
the game or play, you two kind of get into
a little bit, a little pushing and shoven flip each
other off for just a minute. It's not going to
hurt the game, and it will really help us. So
and they did, and they did. And the reason that
that was so cool is because I had to be
very careful how I did that, primarily because Turner Broadcasting
(04:48):
at the time, TNT Sports had the cable rights for
the NBA, So for me as a part of Turner
Broadcasting to do something that the league found distasteful, which
is really easy to do when you associate any sport
with professional wrestling, everybody gets pissed up, or they used to,
(05:08):
not so much anymore. But I had to be really
careful because my boss was also the guy who was
dealing all the time with who was the head of
the league back then, David David Stern. Yeah, David Stern
was in you know, CNN all the time, CNN headquarters
all the time. I'd see him on a regular basis
meeting with Harves Schiller, who is my boss. So I
(05:30):
had to be I want I knew what I wanted
to get, but I had to be careful how I
got there because I didn't want any record of it.
I didn't want to able to see what I told
us to do it, so I had to be subtle
about it. But they pulled it off and it was great,
and uh that was fun. But there's you know, the
the the moment in WWE when I was here today,
(05:52):
this jious at the Billy and Chuck wedding. That was
pretty bad ass. That was as a scene that was
probably the most fun thing I've ever done as a
moment in the ring, I think wrestling Steve Austin and
No Way Out in Montreal. Review that whole that whole
(06:15):
thing with Steve was so much fun, and then to
be able to pay it off in front of such
an incredible crowd in Montreal. Love, love, love the Montreal fans.
They're so passionate and I knew, I knew how that
would end up going, and that was so much fun.
So there's so many of them, but it's hard to
(06:35):
pick one.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
I'm kind of talking about that because when I think
of like Eric Bischoff, and I think of especially you
and the WWE. That was the height of when I
was a fan. I was in uh middle school at
the time. Everything, everything was still so real to me.
And I remember the time leading up to the the
the Austin match. I think it was maybe after the
Royal Rumbot can't I can't remember when, but you announced
(06:59):
that you had a bombshell to drop, and that was
when you were inviting Austin to come back to that
match was and this might be a little bit of
a markie Mark question, So forgive me if I'm asking
I know some of the things in wrestling are predetermined,
but was like that one of those cases of like
it was planned for weeks that Austin was returning, or
was this one of those things where that was like
(07:21):
your way of like inviting Austin on live TV back
to the show back then?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
No, no, no, I think Steve and I don't remember, you know,
all the the drama involved in the story, mostly because
I wasn't there at the time in WWE, and probably
more than that, I don't really get involved in other
people's silly nonsense backstage. I try not to get sucked
(07:47):
into anybody else's drama. So I don't know what led
up to the issue between Steve Boston and WWE. It
was a creative issue. Steve had been going on for
quite some time. I came in while Steve was gone,
and then I'm sure it was Vinc McMahon or somebody
(08:08):
close to Vince started having discussions with Steve about getting
him back, and in that process of Okay, let's get
Steve back into the under the roster and get him
back active again, then it became okay, well what do
we do? How do we do that? And because Steve
and I had so much legitimate backstory. I fired him
(08:31):
by FedEx. Right, everybody knew about it. That was a
big deal. Steve made a big deal about it back
then went on ECW, you know, mocked me and had
a bunch of fun with that. And four years and
we're talking about what two thousand and three I think
this was, or somewhere in there and two three. So
I fired Steve like in ninety four. So in all
(08:54):
that time, me firing Steve Aston, particularly because he went
on to become Stone called Steve Boston and it's such
a mega, mega, mega megastar, which of course, you know,
wrestling fans being rustling fans. No, I can't believe you
let him go. Well yeah, right, But anyway, the backstory
was there, and I don't know whose idea it was,
(09:16):
whether it was Vince's or Bruce Richards or Brian Gowertz's
or Steve. I don't know. I never asked because it
doesn't really matter to me. But somebody came up with
the idea of hey, since Eric and Steve Hall have
all this backstory and Eric is the general manager of raw,
let's have Vince McMahon put pressure on Eric because Vince was,
you know, creatively speaking and literally my boss, like he
(09:40):
gave me the mandate, you get Steve Boston or maybe
you're done. So I had to go out and find
Steve and invite him back, and I finally got it
back and it was a really cool story. But the
coolest part of it is that it was based so
much on reality. Right, fifty of that premise for that
story actually happened. The other fifty percent was the drama
the we created to, you know, make it fun, but
(10:02):
it was at least half real. And anytime you've got
a wrestling story that is either based on a true
story so to speak, or feels like you could be
those are the ones that work. Those two, the ones
that are based on a true story always work best.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Along those lines. You know something that me and Austin
talk about a lot nowadays, You know, we're we're kind
of old school and are thinking and wrestling like that too,
where you know, cafab is so important and it feels
like today it's kind of it's kind of dying.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't know if you feel the same. How do
you feel about that nowadays? I've been hearing that since
night August fifteenth, nineteen eighty seven. That's when I started
in the professional wrestling industry. I've been hearing that same thing,
and I don't subscribe to the theory. I think things
(11:03):
like social media and the Internet in general and all
the things go with it, that it all the different.
You know, dirt sheet websites, and there's some legitimate ones
out there too, by the way. Sure you know PW
torch Way Keller is doing a really good job. P
W insider Dave Sheer and Mike Johnson are really doing
a good job. And there are others. So when I
(11:24):
say dirt sheets on me to throw everybody under the bus,
But there are certain ones that deserve to live there,
uh and just let that bus run over them. Just
back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Dave
Melts are being one of them, King of the hill,
king of the ship sheets.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Absolutely. We're not the biggest Dave Melter fans either.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, but I look, if you look at what ww
WE did just recently, I mean, there is so much
focus on WWE right now. I would I can't imagine
if I was a WWE talent that you could go
down to a local seven eleven and pick up a donut,
a couple of car without it ending up on somebody's
social media site. Right, but is under the microscope and
(12:07):
is powerful and large as wwe is. Look what they
pulled off this past weekend. I mean it can you
can still surprise people, which and still suspend disbelief because
when people talk about what used to be an inside
termed cave, babe, it's really about Look, it's no different
(12:28):
than magic. Like imagine this, guys, David Blaine, Chriss Angel, whoever,
some illusionist magician, call them whatever you want. It's in
Las Vegas. People pay three four five, six hundred, eight
hundred dollars a ticket to come and see their magic
show in Vegas. Can you imagine if David Blaine or
(12:50):
merce Agel somebody came out and said, Okay, guys, before
we get to the show, I want to show you
how we do all of this magic. I'm going to
expose it all to you so when I do it,
you understand it and can appreciate it. Okay, here's how
we do all the magistrates, and I'm gonna go back
behind a curtain, pretend you didn't see any of that.
(13:10):
Said back, enjoyed the show you wouldn't they ruin it,
or they would have ruined it. So that's what dirt sheets.
The guys that like Dave Meltzer, who pride themselves on
making people believe that they know more than they really do,
and they get into this predictive kind of modem and
(13:35):
they really have no contacts, legitimate, no understanding of the industry,
know anything, but they're constantly exposing things or they do
stumble across things that are being discussed, which is even worse,
by the way, than just making it up because it
takes the pleasure away from the people that just want
(13:56):
to tune in and have fun. So it's a problem
in some respects because of the proliferation and just the
the presence of social media constantly. However, it just forces
you to be smarter. It forces you to do differently.
It forces you to plan ahead in much more detail,
(14:19):
and knowing that, Okay, if we're going to keep the secret,
we're going to suspend disbelief so that the audience can
enjoy it to the maximum, then we're gonna have to
take out extra steps. That's unfortunate, I guess, but still possible.
And we just saw this past Weekend.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Yeah, No, I absolutely agree. Social media and the monster
that it is. Can I feel like, either you know,
elevate superstars nowadays or it can just you know, cause
more criticism. And by the way, Babyfaces podcast we're here
with Eric Bischoff, eighty three weeks podcast with Conrad Thompson.
Anywhere that you like to listen to all your podcasts,
and we know that you have a huge fan base
(14:58):
out there when it comes to social media, and you know,
when we talk about breaking KFE, we're using mark terms now.
Would they like WWE does a press conferences after shows
and obviously there's like a lot of content creators back there.
There's a lot of people that are just you know,
as we've said before, dirt sheet writers, other media outlets,
(15:20):
stuff like that. Would you have explored something like that
in w CW after shows? And I guess two fold questions.
Would you kind of monitor how you know, when you're
when you're sitting there reviewing a show, letting the media
ask questions about what just unfolded in front of their eyes.
Would you, as a person that's just kind of in
charge of everything, make sure that you know people have
(15:41):
smart answers, or would you be fine with them kind
of juggling back from television reality because you obviously, you know,
have the Rocky such an important part of the TKO board,
and that's kind of bleeding over to his on screen
character right now. With the Final Boss, you had one
of the biggest heel turns possibly since hul Cogan and
the wrestling business. And then you have the Uh you
(16:02):
had the press conference afterwards, and he's coming out and
he's talking like the member of the TKO board. He's
talking about numbers and where the story is going, and
you know, behind the stuff, like just peeling the curtain
back a little bit. Is that something that you would
have a problem with if you were ever to do
something like like a postmatch press conference, post pay per
view press conference.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Well, you asked about seven questions, and that one question.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I should have I should have started with that.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
But I'll answer because basically your questions were all kind
of related. First first answer is yes I would. In fact,
yes I did in a way if you go back
and look at WCW history, say nineteen ninety six, nineteen
ninety seven, long before you know social media became a thing. Really,
(16:54):
I was doing a show with a gentleman who says,
passed by the name of Bob Ryder, and we were
doing it on Oh what was that platform? It's not
even around anymore. It's one of the very first platform
social media platforms out there. I'll think of it before
we're done, I'm sure. But I was doing that, and
(17:14):
I did talk about the business, and I did talk
about creative but I did it in a way that
left some of the mystery in the air. And I
think now I didn't see the Rock press conference, but
clearly he knows what he's doing and understatement, and I
(17:35):
think it's a good thing. I think it's a good
thing for people to understand the real business of the
wrestling business and to have the kind of information that
you just described Dwayne was sharing with people. And I'll
tell you why. I firmly believe that the more the
(17:58):
audience engaged us with the brand at every level, not
just as a band watching on television or buying a
ticket or buying a plee or pay per view or
a shirt, but if you can involve them and make
them feel like they're a part of something, engagement that's
(18:20):
a big word, right, or that's a broad term for it,
but really get them interacting because you're giving them information,
credible information that they're not getting from some parasite like
Dave Mouser, but right from the horses mouse to speak
that engages them, that makes them feel like they understand more.
And if that's hard for people listening to this to understand,
(18:43):
just look what the NFL has done or NBA. There's
dozens of hours of sports talk shows talking about the
business of the NFL and the numbers and the challenge
they're giving you so much what was probably twenty years
(19:05):
ago conversation that you would only hear inside of the
head office, right, and now it's out there and it's
part of the public consumption and public dialogue. And I
think the more people understand, the more they know, the
more comfortable they are, the more they feel like they're
a part of something. So long winded answer to a
very long winded question, because you asked seven.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Of them all at once, that's right.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yes, especially yes, I would. I think it's a good thing.
I think there are challenges in doing it. We've seen
press conferences that were complete, you know, disasters. I'm not
going to name names, but you know who they are.
You know the companies they were, and then you've seen
(19:48):
press conferences that actually give the audience a little bit
more It makes it a little more interested, but doesn't
ruin anything. So I hope that. I hope that answered
your question.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
Yeah, no, absolutely, thank you, thank you for that. I'll
try I'll try to keep it to just two two questions.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Balls. I don't feel like I'm doing my jobs.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
No, No, that's fine, you can, but bust as many
balls as you want.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Well, Eric, Man, we've we've talked a lot about the
scene of heel turn. I know you mentioned that you
haven't actually sat down and watched it yet, but clearly
a massive moment in wrestling history, and I thought it
was just perfect. We had this interview lined up last
week before Lamination Chamber and then this happens. I'm like, man,
we got Bischoff on who was a part of one
of the most legendary heel turns with Hal Cogan and
(20:38):
the nWo. A lot of people relating that moment to
the Hall Cogan turn. So I know you haven't seen
it yet, but you know the implications of seeing at
turning heel is massive. So just kind of what are
your like overarching thoughts before you really get down to
watching that.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, no, I'm gonna watch it this afternoon because I'm
going live this evening Wednesday evening, March fifth, So depending
on when this hits or you can go back and
watch it at eighty three weeks dot com. It's free
and it's subscribe. Tell your friends right plug it. But
I think here's my take without having seen it. I
(21:18):
think it's very cool for John. I really have a
ton of respect for John Cena as a human being
and as a pro He's a good guy. And I
think because he had such a long career and he
never turned heel that I can kind of put myself
(21:40):
in his shoes. And if it were me and I
had that opportunity, I have to see what it feels like.
If I've been a babyface at the highest of levels
for twenty years and I never got a chance to
taste that heel heat, I'd be somewhat disappointed in myself.
(22:03):
I think just from a wow, what a great way
to end your career as a performer. Perfect, and I'm
happy for it. Again. I'm gonna be totally honest, the
last six weeks of my life has been very busy,
and it's involved a lot of travel, so my ability
(22:24):
to sit down and watch wrestling has been more difficult
than usual, let's put it that way. So I didn't
see a lot of the story build up going into
the scenaturn, so I don't know how much of it
felt random, and I won't know that why I see
it tonight, And I mean spontaneous, not random, spontaneous. Did
(22:46):
that whole turn develop all in one event or one scene?
If it did, that's interesting. I think one of the
reasons that the Hogan turn worked so well, it's because
we spent weeks building anticipation for Who's the Third Man?
(23:08):
And that belonged build up of anticipation. It's like steam
and a pressure cooker starts out low and it's building,
and it's building, it's building, and it finally it reaches
such a fever bitch and blows right. That's kind of
what happened with the Hogan churn. So we we spent weeks,
(23:29):
I mean, the whole the whole build up to that
was Who's the third man? Right, and everybody was speculating
and nobody knew. Dave Meltzer thought it was Mabel shit
shit big vist. Yeah, and then when I called him out,
he said, well, Sean Waltlon told me, well, Sean Waltlin
didn't want work in w W at that time. So
(23:49):
this does that make I mean anyway, don't get it
going on the Meltzer and Parasitic Dirt sheet writers.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
We could do a whole podcast episode on that.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Air, Yes we could, and I have yes multiple times,
and there's still ground to cover. But I think because
we built it up for such a pro long period
of time and we still delivered a massive surprise, that's
what made that so iconic. And you can't discount the
fact that Hogan had been healed at the highest levels
(24:22):
in some respects. You know, John probably drew more money
just because licensing and merchandising, television revenues and pay per
view revenues had all increased. But if you go back
in time and you realize that, wait a minute, haw
Cogan was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. You mean,
Haul Cogan was every major, you know, late night TV
show back when no other restord had ever done that.
(24:44):
You know, Hope was so big in ways that had
never been done before. Sina was huge, but in ways
that we have seen before. So Hogan turning heel in
some respects I think may have had a little bit
more impact than John, not because of who's a more
(25:07):
important babyface, but because of I mean, you know it.
You know the eighties and Haul Cogan's ascension to the
megastartum that he achieved was different than the megastartum that
John Cena achieved, and I think because of that, the
heel turn was probably more shocking. And the more shocking
(25:28):
it is, the better it is. So without even seeing it,
I would have to tip my hat to Hoge it
now once I go back and watch it if I can,
and I will because I want I don't not only
want to see the term, I want to see what
led up to the term, and I'll be doing that
research today. I want to see what they've been doing
with John Cena up until that moment that he turned.
(25:49):
And if that was story driven, then it's going to
be hard to pick one, but it was. If it
was more spontaneous, then I'm gonna probably tip it to Hog.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, I hear you. I will say that Sena has
not appeared on television before this since the Rumble, so
that isn't really much build up, but there is a
point I'm not going to ruin if we're assume you're
gonna watch the whole match, right, Yes, Okay, so there
is a point in the match where I was like,
that was kind of like unsenaike, and I think you'll
(26:20):
you'll it'll be fairly obvious.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And that's interesting, And I appreciate you saying that because
I'll be looking for that, because those little details, and
that's to me what makes this stuff fun. I think
WWE the entire team from Paul Lovett, Bruce Pritchard, one
of my closest dearest friends, and quote you know, Ed Cosky.
There's a whole bunch of guys on that team and
(26:43):
women that I have a load of respect for. Some
of them I got to work with briefly, some of
them I just know. And I think they've taken rustling
storytelling to a level it's unequal with any other form
of entertainment that I see on television. The drama, the characters,
(27:09):
the build up, the setup. They're just doing such a
phenomenal job. And you know, you look at a show
like one that my wife and I were recently watching
that we loved and great characters and great story is.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Outlander love it, never watched it.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Amazing storytelling, amazing storytelling, and great characters, But at ten
million dollars an episode, you know, by the way, they
only do eight of those things a year or ten
or whatever it is. The storytelling is phenomenal, and the
characters and all that, but if you look at WWE
(27:54):
and the fact that they're live, they don't get they
don't have the benefit of an edit booth to make
everything perfect. They're live. And if you look at the
quality of the stories, and while in a lot of
television and movies they're dependent on the narrative, right, the
dialogue is what drives story. Of course, action drive story,
(28:18):
and the acting, the performing and the drama of the
performer drive story. But in wrestling you don't have that luxury.
You don't have a lot of dialogue to tell your story.
The dialogue is a physical dialogue that takes place on
the stage. In this case, the stages is the ring.
(28:40):
So while me not Feel is sophisticated in some respects
as dialogue in a top rated series with great story,
the narrative that plays out inside of the ring is
equally impressive to me in so many ways. And the
little details just like the one that you mentioned I
might be on the lookout or or that you noticed,
(29:02):
are the little details of everybody. That's how they suck
you into that match those little details, those little nuances,
and that is a little nuance something that makes you go, oh,
doesn't really do something like that? What's going on here?
If the writers and a performer can get you to
ask yourself that question while you're watching, or a question
(29:23):
similar to that, they've knocked it out of the park.
And that's the kind of thing that WWE is doing consistently,
sometimes more than others, sometimes in a way that's more
interesting than others. But they're constantly doing it, which is
why they're enjoying the success. They're enjoying it. I've been
saying it on my podcast for three straight years. It's
(29:46):
not about the action. It's about the story, right, and
the action should be of equal quality to the story.
And if you've got great story and great action, you
might as well be printing money in your base.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
No, I absolutely agree, and I actually a billy had
texted me. I was at the casino Saturday night. I
was watching a Brett Michaels concert from Poison, and Billy
had texted me, dude, you're not gonna believe what just happened.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And a couple of people in.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
The women that goes to his concerts.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
It's crazy. My stepmom is a huge fan.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
She's seen him thirty five times, Eric thirty five times.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
He was at he was There's a hard rock hotel
casino in Orlando and he I think he was playing
there somewhere on the property and he there was a
borro test to the hotel called the Palm. It's a
very famous bar, and he came in and there were groupies,
you know, waiting for him. And don't mean to casting
(30:50):
these persons to anybody, but it was a target rich
environment up here looking for sixty year old hot chips.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Absolutely, it was a whole room.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Full of the hottest sixty year olds I've ever been
and they were trolling. They came dressed for the occasion.
It was Yeah, it was interesting.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
No, I mean he puts on a show and I've
seen I mean, we work in radio. I've seen so
many festivals of older rock bands like Guns n' Roses.
I ben't seen u uh now, what's the other Motley
Crew when some of those guys are worn down. And
I know Brett he's got some like he's he has
to take like insulin. I know he doesn't have the
best health. But here's a thing with him. In the
(31:33):
Poison concerts I've been to, he still looks like Brett Michaels.
He still sounds like Brett Michaels. Even when he's playing
at a casino, he's still in the whole.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Rock get up.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
I've seen a real Speedwagon just there only and like
in their casino hoodies and they're just kind of halfway
phoning it in. So that's what makes me appreciate of
Brett Michael's concert enough to say, I'm gonna go to this.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
I'm gonna watch Elimination Change.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Who else is like that? And again, I mean, yeah,
is one of my closest friends, and and I'm in
business with him, Roger, but he never leaves his house
without looking like hul cog and the character. And he's
(32:17):
since i've and I've known him for thirty years, every
time every you know, I've gone down to his house
and let's just go out and grab some launch yeah
sushi or something you know, he's on the whole comedian shirt,
and it's like, if there was a ring, he could
just make an entrance and go be Hulk Cogan, which
he usually does.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
Yeah, And and absolutely we as someone that grew up
in that era, we certainly appreciate because, I mean, Hulk
Cogan really is himself, but you know, on car on TV,
it's just a more like exposed, jacked up version of him.
So I certainly appreciate when I you know, when I
see that and hear those, you know, antidotes. One of
the things I kind of wanted to talk about because
(32:59):
me and Billy haven't been shy on our criticism of
AW in the past two and we certainly know that
you're popular when it comes to.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
What you have to say about it.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
But I had this question written down specifically, they're booking, right,
so or lack thereof that being said, most people like
Tony Kahan, and they've been told that they need to
hire like, you know, like experienced bookers. Experience writers kind
of develop a little bit more storytelling that leads to
their five star, ten star matches, whatever it is. But
(33:30):
since it doesn't seem like he's gonna do that, what
do you think he can do? What advice you know,
if you were to sit down to tone with Tony
right now, what advice would you give him in order
to just kind of like improve him on that area.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I kind of made a commitment to myself to not
bust on AW. It serves no purpose. Nobody's gonna listen,
nobody that matters. Internet will react. But actually, every time
I look at some of the responses, even when I'm
(34:06):
trying to make a valid, a logical point backed up
with facts, the AW audience is kind of a I
don't even know what the word is. Let me put
it to you this way. I have neuropathways in my
(34:26):
brain that start to shut down when I read some
of the comments from the EW loyalists. I can literally
feel little, tiny neuropathways in my brain. There's millions of them,
and there's messages being funneled and shifted all through your
brain twenty four hours a day. But when I read
(34:48):
some of that stuff, I can feel them collapsing. So
I try to stay away from it. Look without being critical,
because this applies to any any television endeavor. You've got
to know your audience and you and let me let
(35:09):
me back up. You have to decide who you want
for your audience because without knowing that, without a clearly
defined goal and target, the odds of success are minimal
(35:30):
or non existent. It's no different than getting in your
cars loading up your kids or Billy, you don't have
the kids. You are a freaking kid. Come on the hell,
am I talking about your nephews or your nieces or something. Neighbors.
It's like throwing you know, three little kids in the
back of the car with your wife or your girlfriend
(35:50):
and say, let's take the neighborhood kids on a trip. Great,
let's pack some lunches, get them all set in the car. Okay,
where shall we go? I don't know where you want
to go? Oh wow? I mean that's no different than
producing a television show and not knowing and clearly defining
(36:11):
who you want your target audience to be. That decision
about who your target audience should be needs to be
driven by revenue. Where can you make the most money
or where can you make enough money to actually survive? Actually,
(36:31):
nobody goes into the television industry trying to figure out
how much money they need to make to survive, right,
So you need to know who your target is. And
once you know who the target is, yes, you need
the demographics male female, What are their ages? Demographics? Every dipshit,
dirt sheet parasitic wannabe knows that word because they see
(36:53):
it in all the trade magazines and it makes them
so so smart to people who actually know less than them,
which is hard to find. They're out there and they
start throwing terms around that are typically used instead of
an industry. That makes them sound like they're in that industry.
That's Dave Melser's technic and others, not just him. But
demographics is important, so is psychographic. Nobody ever talks about that.
(37:18):
The psychographics will be what are the characteristics of the
audience that is in the eighteen to forty nine year
old demo that are most likely to appreciate your product? Well,
now you're zeroing in a little a little more closely.
You know what the big target is. You're not really
sure where the bullseye is, but you see the big
(37:41):
red target. Well, now we get a little bit closer
when we start thinking about psychographics and we do the
research and we find out, okay, what do what are
some of the This is an example, what are some
of the what are some of the fans of w
WWEE that are in that a team, that forty nine
year old demo? What are examples of the music they like,
(38:04):
the food they like, the cars they drive, the favorite
products that they consume. And that gets you a little
closer to the bullseye. And all of that information helps
you shape your creative. So it needs to be reverse
engineered in order to be successful. And I think what
(38:25):
a lot of people do. And I'm not going to
mention company names here, but what I've seen is not
just one of them. I've done it myself. I'll use
myself as an example. Early on when I you know,
because I didn't really get into creative until about nineteen
ninety five, was when I started because I was always
intimidated by it. I didn't think I had enough experience
in it, and I wasn't. I didn't have confidence in
(38:48):
my own instincts. So I always do I always let
somebody else do it right. And then when Ted Turner said, okay, Eric,
go do two hours upon time every month, he was like, okay, well,
now I can't just palm it off on somebody else.
I got to do this stuff. Myself, and then I
kind of forced myself to get more involved. Knowing your
story and excuse me, Knowing your target audience, knowing the
(39:13):
psychographics associated with it allows you to reverse engineer the
characters and the type of story you need to tell.
All too often myself early on, and sometimes what I
see today it's throwing stuff against the wall and hoping
it sticks or worse yet, I know what I like,
(39:35):
So I'm going to book for me. I remember when
I was a kid, I loved this type of manage.
So I'm going to book that you're booking for you.
You're not booking for the target that you should be
booking for. You're not creating and writing and positioning your
characters for the target. You're writing and creating characters for
(39:58):
yourself when you were how do you think that's gonna work?
So what I would advise anybody is learn, learn your audience,
do your research, figure out what's working with who, and
then figure out a way to do a better job.
(40:20):
And sometimes being a better job, it's just being a
different job. Meaning you know when I when I was
really learning in Nive ninety six ninety seven and by
ninety six sinety seven, I started getting more comfortable with
my abilities, or in instincts really, because I have still
had no real experience, but I had good instincts. I
could feel things differently than the average person, and that
(40:45):
feeling taught me a lot about storytelling and building anticipation.
But I've talked about this many times in my podcast.
When Ted Turner said, here, Eric, two hours, go do this.
Go head and ahead with WWE invincment, Man, It's like,
what the hell never thought of that before. I didn't
want to think about it. It's a crazy idea. But
(41:06):
now it's my job. And I said to myself, and
I've talked about this in my book. I've talked about
it many times on the podcast. I locked myself in
a room my office. I put to my assistant, not
taking any calls for at least an hour, don't let
anybody in, don't even let them knock on the door.
Because I had to figure out what the hell I
(41:27):
was going to do. I had no idea. I didn't
go into that meeting expecting any of that. But now
Ted Turner himself looks me in the eye and says,
go do it. It's either going to be the worst
day of my career or the best, and I decided
to make it the best. So I sat down with
a yellow legal pad and a pencil, and I said, Okay,
(41:48):
I can't be better than the ww meeting. They're so
good at what they do. I cannot be better than them.
I want to be less than them. Already less than them.
I don't like being less than them. So if it
can't be better and I don't want to be less,
I just have to be different. I have to present
(42:09):
my product a little differently than they do, dramatically different.
It's not like we're going to have wrestling on ice.
I know, wrestling with Disney and ice. Nobody's ever done
that before. Okay, that's different, but that's stupid. But when
you can, and I describe it as tilting things when
(42:31):
you look. When I looked at the WWW product, and
I didn't think it through like this back then, but
I do now. When I looked at the w w
WE product, what did I see? I saw a product
that generally, as I discussed before, who's your audience? Their
audience at that time was teens and preteens. Everything they
did in television was created, the characters, the stories, the
(42:55):
entire presentation was all created or that teen and preteen audience.
That's who their audience was. There were older people watching
and parents should bring their kids, and it'll be twenty
year olds, and there were a lot of other fans,
but the core audience was teen and preteen. Why do
I do that? Because all of their licensing and merchandising,
(43:17):
which at the time was the only real revenue that
they had. The television licensing didn't exist back then. Pay
per view revenue was there, but that was only about
twenty five or thirty percent of their overall revenues back then.
I'm guessing at them, so, but they're licensing, excuse me,
their they're licensing. Merchandising and licensing and product lines were
(43:38):
huge for them, but they were all targeted towards kids.
So I'm sitting in my office going, okay, I want
to be less than them. How do I be different?
I went, hum, Well, if they're going after teens and
preteens and I could never capture that market from them,
why don't I go after eighteen to forty nine year
old males? And instead of their cartoony kind of When
(44:00):
I say cartoon, it sounds like I'm cutting it up,
but need a lot of money doing it. But their
characters were very animated, they were very much identifiable with
a team of preteen audience. Well, I'm going to be different.
I'm gonna let Scott, Hank, Kevin ask come in using
their real names. My stories are going to be read
reality because theirs are based their children's stories. They're kiddy stories,
(44:26):
they're kitty characters. I'm going to be eighteen to forty
nine characters in eighteen to forty nine year old stories.
That was the seismic shift that really propelled the Monday
Night Wars, me going, I can't do what they're doing,
but I can do this is this is an underserved audience.
And I went after the eighteen to forty nine year
(44:47):
olds and I kicked Vince McMahon's ass for over one
hundred weeks two years, eighty three of those one hundred
and some odd weeks in a row, I bitch slapped
creatively speaking all the way up until he got tired
of it, and he goes, he said somehow to himself,
(45:08):
you know what, I'm going to abandon my teen and
preteen target audience. Can't. I can't do it anymore because
this kid's killing me over here using eighteen to forty
nine year olds, So I'm going to do what he's doing.
Oh yeah, that's called the attitude era. When it happens
(45:29):
shortly after that, a year after the president of the company,
former announcer turns Heel it's a fan turn Heel came
out as the president of Copan came out as the boss.
A year after I did it, a year after the
nw wel just absolutely mopped the floor with WWE. Vince
Cazer all right, I'm going to do that, and arguably
(45:53):
he did it better, did it bigger, which is typical
Vince mcmahn. I admire it for it. Yeah, Pal, but
you can't. You can't look at the reality and the
timeline of the history of wrestling objectively and not recognized
that that was the pivot point for WW week. The
fact that I forced them to go after an eighteen
(46:16):
to forty nine year old audience is the reason they're
on Netflix today.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
And as the saying goes, the rest is history, no
doubt about it.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
One hell of a badge of honor to wear, though, Eric.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I'm the only one that sees it. So yeah, it's cool,
but it doesn't matter. At the end of the day,
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Eric, Man, this has been awesome. We want to thank
you again for taking the time. And I'm sure most
of the listeners right now are here because of you.
You have a huge following and you know we're just
a little old podcasts over here. But go ahead, for
any of our listeners that are listening, plug your podcast
and where they can find you if they want to
find more Bischoff content.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Well, so eighty three weeks with Eric Bischoff and Conrad
Thompson you can find it anywhere you get your potcor casts.
Eighty three weeks. Dot com is our YouTube channel and
we have the podcast there. I do a lot of
original content there. I'm going to be doing a show
there tonight, you know, breaking down the Scena turn. I'm
probably covering some of the same stuff that we talked
(47:14):
about today, but a greater detail after having Ashley watched it.
So yeah, eighty three weeks dot com is where it's happening.
I've got some new projects coming up. We got a
new podcast that's going to start on April eighteenth. I'm
breaking the news here to you publicly. You guys are
the first ones to hear this office. But it's going
(47:36):
to be called Bumps and Stumps. Okay, bumps and stumps,
because I'm going to cover the bumps part, which is
professional wrestling specifically WWE and all the things that are
going on currently. And my broadcast partner, my podcast partner
in this case, is a guy by the name of
Barrat Sundracian, who is a He's Indian. He's from India,
(48:00):
not a Cowbway Indian, but an Indian Indian, and he's
one of the best known cricket journalists in the world.
And we discovered over some amazing Indian food about a
year and a half ago that the crossover audience for cricket,
which is one of the largest sports on the planet.
By the way, the crossover for cricket fans and professional
(48:26):
wrestling WW fans in particular is huge. So we're going
to do this podcast primarily for India, but also for
fans of cricket, and I'm going to talk about what's
going on this week in WWE and wrestling in general.
And Broad's going to teach us about what's going on
in cricket and tell us how to bet, tell us
(48:49):
who to bet, on and all kinds of fun stuff,
So that's coming from me. I'm also thinking seriously about
because I've been on this carnivore diet for like a
year now, and I bund you kind of an evangelist,
I guess for it. There you go, not because I
have any financial reasons to do it, but because I
(49:11):
think it's such a cool thing. So my wife and
I are talking about possibly doing that. But all of
that you'll find out more about eighty three weeks dot com.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
Well, we're definitely excited for As Billy said, we we
certainly appreciate you taking your time. We're certainly looking forward
to hearing your indepth reaction after you see everything unfold
live from the Elimination Chamber. I'm a subscriber on the
two eighty three weeks. I love Conrad Thompson. I like
some of the stuff he does. He seems to bring
out the best in everybody that he interviews, and we've
(49:44):
I've always been a huge fan. I certainly thank you
for this, and you know we'll have to do it
again sometime.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Dude.
Speaker 5 (49:49):
We certainly, like I said, appreciate you coming on. And
this is the Babyfaces podcast where with Eric Bischoff, this
podcast is going to be released here on the YouTube version.
You can find clips on our Instagram at baby faces Pod,
and over on Facebook babyfaces Pod, and on Twitter on
TikTok of course, because me and Billy made the executive
(50:11):
decision to get rid of the Twitter just because of
the weird nature of it. We had a we were
following a bunch of people, but we didn't have that
many followers and we didn't get a lot of interaction.
So it'll be posted on all other social media sites.
And Eric, we certainly appreciate it, man, and uh, we'll
have you on again soon.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
All right, good luck you guys, Thank you for the invitation.
It's been a real pleasure. And yeah, reach out anytime
you know how to find me.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
Thanks, yes, sir, See you guys.
Hey, everybody, this is the American Nightmare Cody Rosen and
you are listening to the Babyfaces on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey guys, this is ww superstar timpy Stron and you're
listening to the Babyfaces on iHeartRadio. What's going on, y'all?
Is WWE superstar Kobe Kingston.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
You're listening to the Babyfaces on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Babyaby, what's up? Guys?
Speaker 4 (00:37):
You hear that music that means we're back.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
It's the Babyfaces podcast on iHeartRadio powered by Sports Talk
seven ninety in Louisville. Appreciate you, guys, turning in back
with another episode, another special guests. We're fully staffed with
our guy Billy Prickett here and stop me if you've
heard this name before. We are here with wrestling legend,
former WCW and and WWE. We got Eric Bischoff on
(01:04):
the show. Who would have ever thought when we started
this off we'd be making our way up to some
of the top guys in the wrestling industry and some
of the most influential people that happen to be in
the industry.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Eric, what's going on? My friend? How you doing? Thank
you for your time?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Oh, I'm happy to be here, guys. I appreciate the invitation.
And Austin and I understand this is the baby Face podcast,
you don't fall into that category. But Billy the Kid,
on the other hand, Yeah, he looks like the twelve
year old kid that comes her. You just love the kid.
You want to hugure. He's out hustling. So I'll go
with Billy the Kid definitely a babyface. Austin, you're kind
(01:39):
of a verge of kind of you get that helot
going on.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
That's what Billy always says. I'm the one that's getting
in fights on Twitter with people. Billy likes to keep
it professional and he's got he's got to pull me
back in a little bit.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
So you're not the first one to say that.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
All right, Well, you mentioned my age, Eric, I'm twenty seven.
A lot of people don't believe that. I think I'm
a lot younger. But I did get into wrestling kind
of later in my life, you know, kind of like
heading into my teens and around like two thousand and seven,
two thousand and eight, kind of the end of that
ruthless aggression era. So I didn't really get to know
you as an on screen character. Obviously I've learned up
(02:14):
on my wrestling history since then, but I did want
to ask you, you know, for people like me, what
what And I'm kind of putting you on the spot
here with this one, but what are some like moments
and matches that really I missed out on seeing live
when getting into wrestling that late, Like, what are some
of your moments?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Oh? There's so many, you know, and depending on the
day and my mood, sometimes they kind of change order
of hierarchy and our priority. But you know, obviously the
Hogan heel turn probably will always be at the top
of the list. It's I mean, it was so iconic
that even today, in fact tonight, I haven't watched the
(02:54):
scene heel turn yet. Oh i was traveling all last
weekend and I'm going to a reaction to it tonight
over eighty three weeks dot Com, which is Wednesday night
as we're recording this. And I know the Hogan turn
(03:15):
was so iconic that people are still talking about it
to this day. So it's not just me because I
happen to be there, but it's it was a big moment.
It's gonna be hard for me to top that. But
there are a lot of other moments that maybe weren't
just big in terms of their impact, but to me
personally kind of meant a little bit more. One example
(03:39):
would be it was ninety seven, I get the years
mixed up. It's been a minute when we had Carl
Malone and Dennis Rodman. They're in the NBA Finals, they're
playing for the championship. I've got them both booked on
a pay per view shortly thereafter. And I how I
(04:00):
say this, I revealed, not revealed. I discussed the option
of perhaps creating a little bit of controversy because we
all know it creates cash. And I said, guys, I'm
not suggesting you do this, but you know, if per se,
you're off the court, so nothing affects the outcome of
(04:23):
the game or play, you two kind of get into
a little bit, a little pushing and shoven flip each
other off for just a minute. It's not going to
hurt the game, and it will really help us. So
and they did, and they did. And the reason that
that was so cool is because I had to be
very careful how I did that, primarily because Turner Broadcasting
(04:48):
at the time, TNT Sports had the cable rights for
the NBA, So for me as a part of Turner
Broadcasting to do something that the league found distasteful, which
is really easy to do when you associate any sport
with professional wrestling, everybody gets pissed up, or they used to,
(05:08):
not so much anymore. But I had to be really
careful because my boss was also the guy who was
dealing all the time with who was the head of
the league back then, David David Stern. Yeah, David Stern
was in you know, CNN all the time, CNN headquarters
all the time. I'd see him on a regular basis
meeting with Harves Schiller, who is my boss. So I
(05:30):
had to be I want I knew what I wanted
to get, but I had to be careful how I
got there because I didn't want any record of it.
I didn't want to able to see what I told
us to do it, so I had to be subtle
about it. But they pulled it off and it was great,
and uh that was fun. But there's you know, the
the the moment in WWE when I was here today,
(05:52):
this jious at the Billy and Chuck wedding. That was
pretty bad ass. That was as a scene that was
probably the most fun thing I've ever done as a
moment in the ring, I think wrestling Steve Austin and
No Way Out in Montreal. Review that whole that whole
(06:15):
thing with Steve was so much fun, and then to
be able to pay it off in front of such
an incredible crowd in Montreal. Love, love, love the Montreal fans.
They're so passionate and I knew, I knew how that
would end up going, and that was so much fun.
So there's so many of them, but it's hard to
(06:35):
pick one.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
I'm kind of talking about that because when I think
of like Eric Bischoff, and I think of especially you
and the WWE. That was the height of when I
was a fan. I was in uh middle school at
the time. Everything, everything was still so real to me.
And I remember the time leading up to the the
the Austin match. I think it was maybe after the
Royal Rumbot can't I can't remember when, but you announced
(06:59):
that you had a bombshell to drop, and that was
when you were inviting Austin to come back to that
match was and this might be a little bit of
a markie Mark question, So forgive me if I'm asking
I know some of the things in wrestling are predetermined,
but was like that one of those cases of like
it was planned for weeks that Austin was returning, or
was this one of those things where that was like
(07:21):
your way of like inviting Austin on live TV back
to the show back then?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
No, no, no, I think Steve and I don't remember, you know,
all the the drama involved in the story, mostly because
I wasn't there at the time in WWE, and probably
more than that, I don't really get involved in other
people's silly nonsense backstage. I try not to get sucked
(07:47):
into anybody else's drama. So I don't know what led
up to the issue between Steve Boston and WWE. It
was a creative issue. Steve had been going on for
quite some time. I came in while Steve was gone,
and then I'm sure it was Vinc McMahon or somebody
(08:08):
close to Vince started having discussions with Steve about getting
him back, and in that process of Okay, let's get
Steve back into the under the roster and get him
back active again, then it became okay, well what do
we do? How do we do that? And because Steve
and I had so much legitimate backstory. I fired him
(08:31):
by FedEx. Right, everybody knew about it. That was a
big deal. Steve made a big deal about it back
then went on ECW, you know, mocked me and had
a bunch of fun with that. And four years and
we're talking about what two thousand and three I think
this was, or somewhere in there and two three. So
I fired Steve like in ninety four. So in all
(08:54):
that time, me firing Steve Aston, particularly because he went
on to become Stone called Steve Boston and it's such
a mega, mega, mega megastar, which of course, you know,
wrestling fans being rustling fans. No, I can't believe you
let him go. Well yeah, right, But anyway, the backstory
was there, and I don't know whose idea it was,
(09:16):
whether it was Vince's or Bruce Richards or Brian Gowertz's
or Steve. I don't know. I never asked because it
doesn't really matter to me. But somebody came up with
the idea of hey, since Eric and Steve Hall have
all this backstory and Eric is the general manager of raw,
let's have Vince McMahon put pressure on Eric because Vince was,
you know, creatively speaking and literally my boss, like he
(09:40):
gave me the mandate, you get Steve Boston or maybe
you're done. So I had to go out and find
Steve and invite him back, and I finally got it
back and it was a really cool story. But the
coolest part of it is that it was based so
much on reality. Right, fifty of that premise for that
story actually happened. The other fifty percent was the drama
the we created to, you know, make it fun, but
(10:02):
it was at least half real. And anytime you've got
a wrestling story that is either based on a true
story so to speak, or feels like you could be
those are the ones that work. Those two, the ones
that are based on a true story always work best.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Along those lines. You know something that me and Austin
talk about a lot nowadays, You know, we're we're kind
of old school and are thinking and wrestling like that too,
where you know, cafab is so important and it feels
like today it's kind of it's kind of dying.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't know if you feel the same. How do
you feel about that nowadays? I've been hearing that since
night August fifteenth, nineteen eighty seven. That's when I started
in the professional wrestling industry. I've been hearing that same thing,
and I don't subscribe to the theory. I think things
(11:03):
like social media and the Internet in general and all
the things go with it, that it all the different.
You know, dirt sheet websites, and there's some legitimate ones
out there too, by the way. Sure you know PW
torch Way Keller is doing a really good job. P
W insider Dave Sheer and Mike Johnson are really doing
a good job. And there are others. So when I
(11:24):
say dirt sheets on me to throw everybody under the bus,
But there are certain ones that deserve to live there,
uh and just let that bus run over them. Just
back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Dave
Melts are being one of them, King of the hill,
king of the ship sheets.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Absolutely. We're not the biggest Dave Melter fans either.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, but I look, if you look at what ww
WE did just recently, I mean, there is so much
focus on WWE right now. I would I can't imagine
if I was a WWE talent that you could go
down to a local seven eleven and pick up a donut,
a couple of car without it ending up on somebody's
social media site. Right, but is under the microscope and
(12:07):
is powerful and large as wwe is. Look what they
pulled off this past weekend. I mean it can you
can still surprise people, which and still suspend disbelief because
when people talk about what used to be an inside
termed cave, babe, it's really about Look, it's no different
(12:28):
than magic. Like imagine this, guys, David Blaine, Chriss Angel, whoever,
some illusionist magician, call them whatever you want. It's in
Las Vegas. People pay three four five, six hundred, eight
hundred dollars a ticket to come and see their magic
show in Vegas. Can you imagine if David Blaine or
(12:50):
merce Agel somebody came out and said, Okay, guys, before
we get to the show, I want to show you
how we do all of this magic. I'm going to
expose it all to you so when I do it,
you understand it and can appreciate it. Okay, here's how
we do all the magistrates, and I'm gonna go back
behind a curtain, pretend you didn't see any of that.
(13:10):
Said back, enjoyed the show you wouldn't they ruin it,
or they would have ruined it. So that's what dirt sheets.
The guys that like Dave Meltzer, who pride themselves on
making people believe that they know more than they really do,
and they get into this predictive kind of modem and
(13:35):
they really have no contacts, legitimate, no understanding of the industry,
know anything, but they're constantly exposing things or they do
stumble across things that are being discussed, which is even worse,
by the way, than just making it up because it
takes the pleasure away from the people that just want
(13:56):
to tune in and have fun. So it's a problem
in some respects because of the proliferation and just the
the presence of social media constantly. However, it just forces
you to be smarter. It forces you to do differently.
It forces you to plan ahead in much more detail,
(14:19):
and knowing that, Okay, if we're going to keep the secret,
we're going to suspend disbelief so that the audience can
enjoy it to the maximum, then we're gonna have to
take out extra steps. That's unfortunate, I guess, but still possible.
And we just saw this past Weekend.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
Yeah, No, I absolutely agree. Social media and the monster
that it is. Can I feel like, either you know,
elevate superstars nowadays or it can just you know, cause
more criticism. And by the way, Babyfaces podcast we're here
with Eric Bischoff, eighty three weeks podcast with Conrad Thompson.
Anywhere that you like to listen to all your podcasts,
and we know that you have a huge fan base
(14:58):
out there when it comes to social media, and you know,
when we talk about breaking KFE, we're using mark terms now.
Would they like WWE does a press conferences after shows
and obviously there's like a lot of content creators back there.
There's a lot of people that are just you know,
as we've said before, dirt sheet writers, other media outlets,
(15:20):
stuff like that. Would you have explored something like that
in w CW after shows? And I guess two fold questions.
Would you kind of monitor how you know, when you're
when you're sitting there reviewing a show, letting the media
ask questions about what just unfolded in front of their eyes.
Would you, as a person that's just kind of in
charge of everything, make sure that you know people have
(15:41):
smart answers, or would you be fine with them kind
of juggling back from television reality because you obviously, you know,
have the Rocky such an important part of the TKO board,
and that's kind of bleeding over to his on screen
character right now. With the Final Boss, you had one
of the biggest heel turns possibly since hul Cogan and
the wrestling business. And then you have the Uh you
(16:02):
had the press conference afterwards, and he's coming out and
he's talking like the member of the TKO board. He's
talking about numbers and where the story is going, and
you know, behind the stuff, like just peeling the curtain
back a little bit. Is that something that you would
have a problem with if you were ever to do
something like like a postmatch press conference, post pay per
view press conference.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Well, you asked about seven questions, and that one question.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I should have I should have started with that.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
But I'll answer because basically your questions were all kind
of related. First first answer is yes I would. In fact,
yes I did in a way if you go back
and look at WCW history, say nineteen ninety six, nineteen
ninety seven, long before you know social media became a thing. Really,
(16:54):
I was doing a show with a gentleman who says,
passed by the name of Bob Ryder, and we were
doing it on Oh what was that platform? It's not
even around anymore. It's one of the very first platform
social media platforms out there. I'll think of it before
we're done, I'm sure. But I was doing that, and
(17:14):
I did talk about the business, and I did talk
about creative but I did it in a way that
left some of the mystery in the air. And I
think now I didn't see the Rock press conference, but
clearly he knows what he's doing and understatement, and I
(17:35):
think it's a good thing. I think it's a good
thing for people to understand the real business of the
wrestling business and to have the kind of information that
you just described Dwayne was sharing with people. And I'll
tell you why. I firmly believe that the more the
(17:58):
audience engaged us with the brand at every level, not
just as a band watching on television or buying a
ticket or buying a plee or pay per view or
a shirt, but if you can involve them and make
them feel like they're a part of something, engagement that's
(18:20):
a big word, right, or that's a broad term for it,
but really get them interacting because you're giving them information,
credible information that they're not getting from some parasite like
Dave Mouser, but right from the horses mouse to speak
that engages them, that makes them feel like they understand more.
And if that's hard for people listening to this to understand,
(18:43):
just look what the NFL has done or NBA. There's
dozens of hours of sports talk shows talking about the
business of the NFL and the numbers and the challenge
they're giving you so much what was probably twenty years
(19:05):
ago conversation that you would only hear inside of the
head office, right, and now it's out there and it's
part of the public consumption and public dialogue. And I
think the more people understand, the more they know, the
more comfortable they are, the more they feel like they're
a part of something. So long winded answer to a
very long winded question, because you asked seven.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Of them all at once, that's right.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yes, especially yes, I would. I think it's a good thing.
I think there are challenges in doing it. We've seen
press conferences that were complete, you know, disasters. I'm not
going to name names, but you know who they are.
You know the companies they were, and then you've seen
(19:48):
press conferences that actually give the audience a little bit
more It makes it a little more interested, but doesn't
ruin anything. So I hope that. I hope that answered
your question.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
Yeah, no, absolutely, thank you, thank you for that. I'll
try I'll try to keep it to just two two questions.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Balls. I don't feel like I'm doing my jobs.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
No, No, that's fine, you can, but bust as many
balls as you want.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Well, Eric, Man, we've we've talked a lot about the
scene of heel turn. I know you mentioned that you
haven't actually sat down and watched it yet, but clearly
a massive moment in wrestling history, and I thought it
was just perfect. We had this interview lined up last
week before Lamination Chamber and then this happens. I'm like, man,
we got Bischoff on who was a part of one
of the most legendary heel turns with Hal Cogan and
(20:38):
the nWo. A lot of people relating that moment to
the Hall Cogan turn. So I know you haven't seen
it yet, but you know the implications of seeing at
turning heel is massive. So just kind of what are
your like overarching thoughts before you really get down to
watching that.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, no, I'm gonna watch it this afternoon because I'm
going live this evening Wednesday evening, March fifth, So depending
on when this hits or you can go back and
watch it at eighty three weeks dot com. It's free
and it's subscribe. Tell your friends right plug it. But
I think here's my take without having seen it. I
(21:18):
think it's very cool for John. I really have a
ton of respect for John Cena as a human being
and as a pro He's a good guy. And I
think because he had such a long career and he
never turned heel that I can kind of put myself
(21:40):
in his shoes. And if it were me and I
had that opportunity, I have to see what it feels like.
If I've been a babyface at the highest of levels
for twenty years and I never got a chance to
taste that heel heat, I'd be somewhat disappointed in myself.
(22:03):
I think just from a wow, what a great way
to end your career as a performer. Perfect, and I'm
happy for it. Again. I'm gonna be totally honest, the
last six weeks of my life has been very busy,
and it's involved a lot of travel, so my ability
(22:24):
to sit down and watch wrestling has been more difficult
than usual, let's put it that way. So I didn't
see a lot of the story build up going into
the scenaturn, so I don't know how much of it
felt random, and I won't know that why I see
it tonight, And I mean spontaneous, not random, spontaneous. Did
(22:46):
that whole turn develop all in one event or one scene?
If it did, that's interesting. I think one of the
reasons that the Hogan turn worked so well, it's because
we spent weeks building anticipation for Who's the Third Man?
(23:08):
And that belonged build up of anticipation. It's like steam
and a pressure cooker starts out low and it's building,
and it's building, it's building, and it finally it reaches
such a fever bitch and blows right. That's kind of
what happened with the Hogan churn. So we we spent weeks,
(23:29):
I mean, the whole the whole build up to that
was Who's the third man? Right, and everybody was speculating
and nobody knew. Dave Meltzer thought it was Mabel shit
shit big vist. Yeah, and then when I called him out,
he said, well, Sean Waltlon told me, well, Sean Waltlin
didn't want work in w W at that time. So
(23:49):
this does that make I mean anyway, don't get it
going on the Meltzer and Parasitic Dirt sheet writers.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
We could do a whole podcast episode on that.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Air, Yes we could, and I have yes multiple times,
and there's still ground to cover. But I think because
we built it up for such a pro long period
of time and we still delivered a massive surprise, that's
what made that so iconic. And you can't discount the
fact that Hogan had been healed at the highest levels
(24:22):
in some respects. You know, John probably drew more money
just because licensing and merchandising, television revenues and pay per
view revenues had all increased. But if you go back
in time and you realize that, wait a minute, haw
Cogan was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. You mean,
Haul Cogan was every major, you know, late night TV
show back when no other restord had ever done that.
(24:44):
You know, Hope was so big in ways that had
never been done before. Sina was huge, but in ways
that we have seen before. So Hogan turning heel in
some respects I think may have had a little bit
more impact than John, not because of who's a more
(25:07):
important babyface, but because of I mean, you know it.
You know the eighties and Haul Cogan's ascension to the
megastartum that he achieved was different than the megastartum that
John Cena achieved, and I think because of that, the
heel turn was probably more shocking. And the more shocking
(25:28):
it is, the better it is. So without even seeing it,
I would have to tip my hat to Hoge it
now once I go back and watch it if I can,
and I will because I want I don't not only
want to see the term, I want to see what
led up to the term, and I'll be doing that
research today. I want to see what they've been doing
with John Cena up until that moment that he turned.
(25:49):
And if that was story driven, then it's going to
be hard to pick one, but it was. If it
was more spontaneous, then I'm gonna probably tip it to Hog.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, I hear you. I will say that Sena has
not appeared on television before this since the Rumble, so
that isn't really much build up, but there is a
point I'm not going to ruin if we're assume you're
gonna watch the whole match, right, Yes, Okay, so there
is a point in the match where I was like,
that was kind of like unsenaike, and I think you'll
(26:20):
you'll it'll be fairly obvious.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And that's interesting, And I appreciate you saying that because
I'll be looking for that, because those little details, and
that's to me what makes this stuff fun. I think
WWE the entire team from Paul Lovett, Bruce Pritchard, one
of my closest dearest friends, and quote you know, Ed Cosky.
There's a whole bunch of guys on that team and
(26:43):
women that I have a load of respect for. Some
of them I got to work with briefly, some of
them I just know. And I think they've taken rustling
storytelling to a level it's unequal with any other form
of entertainment that I see on television. The drama, the characters,
(27:09):
the build up, the setup. They're just doing such a
phenomenal job. And you know, you look at a show
like one that my wife and I were recently watching
that we loved and great characters and great story is.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Outlander love it, never watched it.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Amazing storytelling, amazing storytelling, and great characters, But at ten
million dollars an episode, you know, by the way, they
only do eight of those things a year or ten
or whatever it is. The storytelling is phenomenal, and the
characters and all that, but if you look at WWE
(27:54):
and the fact that they're live, they don't get they
don't have the benefit of an edit booth to make
everything perfect. They're live. And if you look at the
quality of the stories, and while in a lot of
television and movies they're dependent on the narrative, right, the
dialogue is what drives story. Of course, action drive story,
(28:18):
and the acting, the performing and the drama of the
performer drive story. But in wrestling you don't have that luxury.
You don't have a lot of dialogue to tell your story.
The dialogue is a physical dialogue that takes place on
the stage. In this case, the stages is the ring.
(28:40):
So while me not Feel is sophisticated in some respects
as dialogue in a top rated series with great story,
the narrative that plays out inside of the ring is
equally impressive to me in so many ways. And the
little details just like the one that you mentioned I
might be on the lookout or or that you noticed,
(29:02):
are the little details of everybody. That's how they suck
you into that match those little details, those little nuances,
and that is a little nuance something that makes you go, oh,
doesn't really do something like that? What's going on here?
If the writers and a performer can get you to
ask yourself that question while you're watching, or a question
(29:23):
similar to that, they've knocked it out of the park.
And that's the kind of thing that WWE is doing consistently,
sometimes more than others, sometimes in a way that's more
interesting than others. But they're constantly doing it, which is
why they're enjoying the success. They're enjoying it. I've been
saying it on my podcast for three straight years. It's
(29:46):
not about the action. It's about the story, right, and
the action should be of equal quality to the story.
And if you've got great story and great action, you
might as well be printing money in your base.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
No, I absolutely agree, and I actually a billy had
texted me. I was at the casino Saturday night. I
was watching a Brett Michaels concert from Poison, and Billy
had texted me, dude, you're not gonna believe what just happened.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And a couple of people in.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
The women that goes to his concerts.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
It's crazy. My stepmom is a huge fan.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
She's seen him thirty five times, Eric thirty five times.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
He was at he was There's a hard rock hotel
casino in Orlando and he I think he was playing
there somewhere on the property and he there was a
borro test to the hotel called the Palm. It's a
very famous bar, and he came in and there were groupies,
you know, waiting for him. And don't mean to casting
(30:50):
these persons to anybody, but it was a target rich
environment up here looking for sixty year old hot chips.
Speaker 4 (31:01):
Absolutely, it was a whole room.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Full of the hottest sixty year olds I've ever been
and they were trolling. They came dressed for the occasion.
It was Yeah, it was interesting.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
No, I mean he puts on a show and I've
seen I mean, we work in radio. I've seen so
many festivals of older rock bands like Guns n' Roses.
I ben't seen u uh now, what's the other Motley
Crew when some of those guys are worn down. And
I know Brett he's got some like he's he has
to take like insulin. I know he doesn't have the
best health. But here's a thing with him. In the
(31:33):
Poison concerts I've been to, he still looks like Brett Michaels.
He still sounds like Brett Michaels. Even when he's playing
at a casino, he's still in the whole.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Rock get up.
Speaker 5 (31:41):
I've seen a real Speedwagon just there only and like
in their casino hoodies and they're just kind of halfway
phoning it in. So that's what makes me appreciate of
Brett Michael's concert enough to say, I'm gonna go to this.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
I'm gonna watch Elimination Change.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Who else is like that? And again, I mean, yeah,
is one of my closest friends, and and I'm in
business with him, Roger, but he never leaves his house
without looking like hul cog and the character. And he's
(32:17):
since i've and I've known him for thirty years, every
time every you know, I've gone down to his house
and let's just go out and grab some launch yeah
sushi or something you know, he's on the whole comedian shirt,
and it's like, if there was a ring, he could
just make an entrance and go be Hulk Cogan, which
he usually does.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
Yeah, And and absolutely we as someone that grew up
in that era, we certainly appreciate because, I mean, Hulk
Cogan really is himself, but you know, on car on TV,
it's just a more like exposed, jacked up version of him.
So I certainly appreciate when I you know, when I
see that and hear those, you know, antidotes. One of
the things I kind of wanted to talk about because
(32:59):
me and Billy haven't been shy on our criticism of
AW in the past two and we certainly know that
you're popular when it comes to.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
What you have to say about it.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
But I had this question written down specifically, they're booking, right,
so or lack thereof that being said, most people like
Tony Kahan, and they've been told that they need to
hire like, you know, like experienced bookers. Experience writers kind
of develop a little bit more storytelling that leads to
their five star, ten star matches, whatever it is. But
(33:30):
since it doesn't seem like he's gonna do that, what
do you think he can do? What advice you know,
if you were to sit down to tone with Tony
right now, what advice would you give him in order
to just kind of like improve him on that area.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I kind of made a commitment to myself to not
bust on AW. It serves no purpose. Nobody's gonna listen,
nobody that matters. Internet will react. But actually, every time
I look at some of the responses, even when I'm
(34:06):
trying to make a valid, a logical point backed up
with facts, the AW audience is kind of a I
don't even know what the word is. Let me put
it to you this way. I have neuropathways in my
(34:26):
brain that start to shut down when I read some
of the comments from the EW loyalists. I can literally
feel little, tiny neuropathways in my brain. There's millions of them,
and there's messages being funneled and shifted all through your
brain twenty four hours a day. But when I read
(34:48):
some of that stuff, I can feel them collapsing. So
I try to stay away from it. Look without being critical,
because this applies to any any television endeavor. You've got
to know your audience and you and let me let
(35:09):
me back up. You have to decide who you want
for your audience because without knowing that, without a clearly
defined goal and target, the odds of success are minimal
(35:30):
or non existent. It's no different than getting in your
cars loading up your kids or Billy, you don't have
the kids. You are a freaking kid. Come on the hell,
am I talking about your nephews or your nieces or something. Neighbors.
It's like throwing you know, three little kids in the
back of the car with your wife or your girlfriend
(35:50):
and say, let's take the neighborhood kids on a trip. Great,
let's pack some lunches, get them all set in the car. Okay,
where shall we go? I don't know where you want
to go? Oh wow? I mean that's no different than
producing a television show and not knowing and clearly defining
(36:11):
who you want your target audience to be. That decision
about who your target audience should be needs to be
driven by revenue. Where can you make the most money
or where can you make enough money to actually survive? Actually,
(36:31):
nobody goes into the television industry trying to figure out
how much money they need to make to survive, right,
So you need to know who your target is. And
once you know who the target is, yes, you need
the demographics male female, What are their ages? Demographics? Every dipshit,
dirt sheet parasitic wannabe knows that word because they see
(36:53):
it in all the trade magazines and it makes them
so so smart to people who actually know less than them,
which is hard to find. They're out there and they
start throwing terms around that are typically used instead of
an industry. That makes them sound like they're in that industry.
That's Dave Melser's technic and others, not just him. But
demographics is important, so is psychographic. Nobody ever talks about that.
(37:18):
The psychographics will be what are the characteristics of the
audience that is in the eighteen to forty nine year
old demo that are most likely to appreciate your product? Well,
now you're zeroing in a little a little more closely.
You know what the big target is. You're not really
sure where the bullseye is, but you see the big
(37:41):
red target. Well, now we get a little bit closer
when we start thinking about psychographics and we do the
research and we find out, okay, what do what are
some of the This is an example, what are some
of the what are some of the fans of w
WWEE that are in that a team, that forty nine
year old demo? What are examples of the music they like,
(38:04):
the food they like, the cars they drive, the favorite
products that they consume. And that gets you a little
closer to the bullseye. And all of that information helps
you shape your creative. So it needs to be reverse
engineered in order to be successful. And I think what
(38:25):
a lot of people do. And I'm not going to
mention company names here, but what I've seen is not
just one of them. I've done it myself. I'll use
myself as an example. Early on when I you know,
because I didn't really get into creative until about nineteen
ninety five, was when I started because I was always
intimidated by it. I didn't think I had enough experience
in it, and I wasn't. I didn't have confidence in
(38:48):
my own instincts. So I always do I always let
somebody else do it right. And then when Ted Turner said, okay, Eric,
go do two hours upon time every month, he was like, okay, well,
now I can't just palm it off on somebody else.
I got to do this stuff. Myself, and then I
kind of forced myself to get more involved. Knowing your
story and excuse me, Knowing your target audience, knowing the
(39:13):
psychographics associated with it allows you to reverse engineer the
characters and the type of story you need to tell.
All too often myself early on, and sometimes what I
see today it's throwing stuff against the wall and hoping
it sticks or worse yet, I know what I like,
(39:35):
So I'm going to book for me. I remember when
I was a kid, I loved this type of manage.
So I'm going to book that you're booking for you.
You're not booking for the target that you should be
booking for. You're not creating and writing and positioning your
characters for the target. You're writing and creating characters for
(39:58):
yourself when you were how do you think that's gonna work?
So what I would advise anybody is learn, learn your audience,
do your research, figure out what's working with who, and
then figure out a way to do a better job.
(40:20):
And sometimes being a better job, it's just being a
different job. Meaning you know when I when I was
really learning in Nive ninety six ninety seven and by
ninety six sinety seven, I started getting more comfortable with
my abilities, or in instincts really, because I have still
had no real experience, but I had good instincts. I
could feel things differently than the average person, and that
(40:45):
feeling taught me a lot about storytelling and building anticipation.
But I've talked about this many times in my podcast.
When Ted Turner said, here, Eric, two hours, go do this.
Go head and ahead with WWE invincment, Man, It's like,
what the hell never thought of that before. I didn't
want to think about it. It's a crazy idea. But
(41:06):
now it's my job. And I said to myself, and
I've talked about this in my book. I've talked about
it many times on the podcast. I locked myself in
a room my office. I put to my assistant, not
taking any calls for at least an hour, don't let
anybody in, don't even let them knock on the door.
Because I had to figure out what the hell I
(41:27):
was going to do. I had no idea. I didn't
go into that meeting expecting any of that. But now
Ted Turner himself looks me in the eye and says,
go do it. It's either going to be the worst
day of my career or the best, and I decided
to make it the best. So I sat down with
a yellow legal pad and a pencil, and I said, Okay,
(41:48):
I can't be better than the ww meeting. They're so
good at what they do. I cannot be better than them.
I want to be less than them. Already less than them.
I don't like being less than them. So if it
can't be better and I don't want to be less,
I just have to be different. I have to present
(42:09):
my product a little differently than they do, dramatically different.
It's not like we're going to have wrestling on ice.
I know, wrestling with Disney and ice. Nobody's ever done
that before. Okay, that's different, but that's stupid. But when
you can, and I describe it as tilting things when
(42:31):
you look. When I looked at the WWW product, and
I didn't think it through like this back then, but
I do now. When I looked at the w w
WE product, what did I see? I saw a product
that generally, as I discussed before, who's your audience? Their
audience at that time was teens and preteens. Everything they
did in television was created, the characters, the stories, the
(42:55):
entire presentation was all created or that teen and preteen audience.
That's who their audience was. There were older people watching
and parents should bring their kids, and it'll be twenty
year olds, and there were a lot of other fans,
but the core audience was teen and preteen. Why do
I do that? Because all of their licensing and merchandising,
(43:17):
which at the time was the only real revenue that
they had. The television licensing didn't exist back then. Pay
per view revenue was there, but that was only about
twenty five or thirty percent of their overall revenues back then.
I'm guessing at them, so, but they're licensing, excuse me,
their they're licensing. Merchandising and licensing and product lines were
(43:38):
huge for them, but they were all targeted towards kids.
So I'm sitting in my office going, okay, I want
to be less than them. How do I be different?
I went, hum, Well, if they're going after teens and
preteens and I could never capture that market from them,
why don't I go after eighteen to forty nine year
old males? And instead of their cartoony kind of When
(44:00):
I say cartoon, it sounds like I'm cutting it up,
but need a lot of money doing it. But their
characters were very animated, they were very much identifiable with
a team of preteen audience. Well, I'm going to be different.
I'm gonna let Scott, Hank, Kevin ask come in using
their real names. My stories are going to be read
reality because theirs are based their children's stories. They're kiddy stories,
(44:26):
they're kitty characters. I'm going to be eighteen to forty
nine characters in eighteen to forty nine year old stories.
That was the seismic shift that really propelled the Monday
Night Wars, me going, I can't do what they're doing,
but I can do this is this is an underserved audience.
And I went after the eighteen to forty nine year
(44:47):
olds and I kicked Vince McMahon's ass for over one
hundred weeks two years, eighty three of those one hundred
and some odd weeks in a row, I bitch slapped
creatively speaking all the way up until he got tired
of it, and he goes, he said somehow to himself,
(45:08):
you know what, I'm going to abandon my teen and
preteen target audience. Can't. I can't do it anymore because
this kid's killing me over here using eighteen to forty
nine year olds, So I'm going to do what he's doing.
Oh yeah, that's called the attitude era. When it happens
(45:29):
shortly after that, a year after the president of the company,
former announcer turns Heel it's a fan turn Heel came
out as the president of Copan came out as the boss.
A year after I did it, a year after the
nw wel just absolutely mopped the floor with WWE. Vince
Cazer all right, I'm going to do that, and arguably
(45:53):
he did it better, did it bigger, which is typical
Vince mcmahn. I admire it for it. Yeah, Pal, but
you can't. You can't look at the reality and the
timeline of the history of wrestling objectively and not recognized
that that was the pivot point for WW week. The
fact that I forced them to go after an eighteen
(46:16):
to forty nine year old audience is the reason they're
on Netflix today.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
And as the saying goes, the rest is history, no
doubt about it.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
One hell of a badge of honor to wear, though, Eric.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I'm the only one that sees it. So yeah, it's cool,
but it doesn't matter. At the end of the day,
it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Eric, Man, this has been awesome. We want to thank
you again for taking the time. And I'm sure most
of the listeners right now are here because of you.
You have a huge following and you know we're just
a little old podcasts over here. But go ahead, for
any of our listeners that are listening, plug your podcast
and where they can find you if they want to
find more Bischoff content.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Well, so eighty three weeks with Eric Bischoff and Conrad
Thompson you can find it anywhere you get your potcor casts.
Eighty three weeks. Dot com is our YouTube channel and
we have the podcast there. I do a lot of
original content there. I'm going to be doing a show
there tonight, you know, breaking down the Scena turn. I'm
probably covering some of the same stuff that we talked
(47:14):
about today, but a greater detail after having Ashley watched it.
So yeah, eighty three weeks dot com is where it's happening.
I've got some new projects coming up. We got a
new podcast that's going to start on April eighteenth. I'm
breaking the news here to you publicly. You guys are
the first ones to hear this office. But it's going
(47:36):
to be called Bumps and Stumps. Okay, bumps and stumps,
because I'm going to cover the bumps part, which is
professional wrestling specifically WWE and all the things that are
going on currently. And my broadcast partner, my podcast partner
in this case, is a guy by the name of
Barrat Sundracian, who is a He's Indian. He's from India,
(48:00):
not a Cowbway Indian, but an Indian Indian, and he's
one of the best known cricket journalists in the world.
And we discovered over some amazing Indian food about a
year and a half ago that the crossover audience for cricket,
which is one of the largest sports on the planet.
By the way, the crossover for cricket fans and professional
(48:26):
wrestling WW fans in particular is huge. So we're going
to do this podcast primarily for India, but also for
fans of cricket, and I'm going to talk about what's
going on this week in WWE and wrestling in general.
And Broad's going to teach us about what's going on
in cricket and tell us how to bet, tell us
(48:49):
who to bet, on and all kinds of fun stuff,
So that's coming from me. I'm also thinking seriously about
because I've been on this carnivore diet for like a
year now, and I bund you kind of an evangelist,
I guess for it. There you go, not because I
have any financial reasons to do it, but because I
(49:11):
think it's such a cool thing. So my wife and
I are talking about possibly doing that. But all of
that you'll find out more about eighty three weeks dot com.
Speaker 5 (49:22):
Well, we're definitely excited for As Billy said, we we
certainly appreciate you taking your time. We're certainly looking forward
to hearing your indepth reaction after you see everything unfold
live from the Elimination Chamber. I'm a subscriber on the
two eighty three weeks. I love Conrad Thompson. I like
some of the stuff he does. He seems to bring
out the best in everybody that he interviews, and we've
(49:44):
I've always been a huge fan. I certainly thank you
for this, and you know we'll have to do it
again sometime.
Speaker 4 (49:49):
Dude.
Speaker 5 (49:49):
We certainly, like I said, appreciate you coming on. And
this is the Babyfaces podcast where with Eric Bischoff, this
podcast is going to be released here on the YouTube version.
You can find clips on our Instagram at baby faces Pod,
and over on Facebook babyfaces Pod, and on Twitter on
TikTok of course, because me and Billy made the executive
(50:11):
decision to get rid of the Twitter just because of
the weird nature of it. We had a we were
following a bunch of people, but we didn't have that
many followers and we didn't get a lot of interaction.
So it'll be posted on all other social media sites.
And Eric, we certainly appreciate it, man, and uh, we'll
have you on again soon.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
All right, good luck you guys, Thank you for the invitation.
It's been a real pleasure. And yeah, reach out anytime
you know how to find me.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
Thanks, yes, sir, See you guys.
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