Wayne and Matt talk with John Roach about his documentary on the Howard Moore Family tragedy "A Road at Night"

Wayne and Matt talk with John Roach about his documentary on the Howard Moore Family tragedy "A Road at Night"

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
They were able to keep Howard More. He had some
very serious injuries and he's still recovering from them. But
all sorts of employees at the University Wisconsin Athletic Department
donated their vacation time to keep Howard More covered with
the health benefits for another like year and a half.

(00:21):
Tony Granado, the hockey coach, donated his vacation, Mark Johnson
donated his vacation. All of these people just stepped up
and said, whatever we need to do for Howard.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
This is the Larovian la Pey Podcasts, a production of
iHeartRadio Podcasts with hosts Wayne Laravie, the voice of the
Green Bay Packers, and Matt Lapee, the voice of Wisconsin
Badgers football and men's basketball. The Larovian la Peye podcast
is presented by UW Credit Union.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Here for every you, Hi, everybody, I'm Wayne Laravie and
I'm Matt Lapey.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
On this episode of the Laravie la Pey Podcast, we
sit down with filmmaker John Roach to discuss A Road
at Night, a film about a tragic car crash one
at in Michigan involving Howard Moore at the time at
assistant basketball coach at Wisconsin. Out of tragedy and grief
comes incredible strength. Stay tuned. We've got good stuff coming

(01:17):
up on the La Vie Lapey podcast. Got Cheddar on
your Mind. UW Credit Union can help with free free
checking and great rates that let you keep more of
your cheese. Joined at UWCU dot org, insured by NCUA
Equal Opportunity Lender. We welcome into the Lara Vil at

(01:40):
Pay podcast filmmaker John Roach. The film is entitled A
Road at Night, A story of tragedy, grief, and in
the end, incredible human strength in the face of the
most horrible of circumstances. Next Friday, there's a private showing
of this film in Madison for family and friends of
Howard Moore, the former assistant and basketball coach of Wisconsin,

(02:01):
whom we all knew and loved, who is still with us,
but is in a difficult situation right now and lost
in this accident in Michigan a number of years ago.
His wife and his daughter his son survived and is
just starting school now. And John, thank you for taking

(02:22):
time out with us. I was just struck. I was
telling Matt at how there is no scripted narration the
people who are going through the grief and the loss,
and it is every day. It may have been a
number of years now since that accident, but they're going
through it every day. They told the story, and I
thought it was incredibly powerful. How you told the story

(02:45):
of the person, the drunk driver who caused the accident
and lost her life, and how that whole thing came about.
It was just it was It's incredible filmmaking. And boy,
I hope it sees the bright light of day.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Well, thanks Wayne, it was. First of all, Matt played
a big role in it. Matt was one of our
interview subjects and really helped set up at three Look.
Howard and Jennifer were beloved in the University Wisconsin community,
not just not just the basketball community. Honestly, the story

(03:22):
is sports is the backdrop, but it's it's a bigger
it's a bigger tapestry than that. And you know, my
in the early goings, I had seen what had transpired.
The accident happened in May of twenty nineteen. It was horrific.
All of the teammates sped to the hospital in Ann Arbor,

(03:42):
where Howard and Jirell were. They came from all over
the country dropped everything and immediately stan Van Gundy, Andy Kilbright,
all these guys who played with Howard, they were there
within twenty four hours. The university staff flew over, but
Howard was beloved. He was beloved by the student population.

(04:05):
He was a player and a coach at Wisconsin. He
helped forge that culture that's been so successful for the
last thirty some years, and it just was worth examining
to see how humans handle tragedy. There's a quote from

(04:29):
James Baldwin that I keep coming back to. He's a
great American author, but he said life is tragic and
therefore unutterably beautiful. In the midst of this tragedy, there's
so many beautiful moments of love and compassion and concern
that it's it's a difficult topic, but it's also it

(04:51):
makes it can make you feel pretty good about the
human human beings.

Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, I know, John, you and I talked last week
about this. I mean, you know, guys like Andy Kilbride
and Tracy Webster.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
And Michael Finley.

Speaker 5 (05:02):
We're talking thirty years ago, right, They played alongside each
other and that bond continues as strong as ever today.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
And maybe that speaks to you know, you.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
Get every range of emotion watching this, but I came
away thinking, man, this is pretty special. What athletics and
what team work. Thirty years later, those guys are still
their teammates, their brothers, they're all.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
They're brothers, right, Matt and you both of you guys
know that aside from the games and the big plays
and everything, these guys go through the crucible together, right.
You know, you're young men. You're nineteen years old and
there's twelve thousand people screaming. That's not a normal experience
for most nineteen years old and you have to focus

(05:52):
and you have to grow up pretty fast. And you know,
in football and in basketball, you know you're going to
go out there, you're gonna get beat up. You're and
you are putting your wares out there for everyone to judge. Right,
And and when you go through that together, and you're
in that locker room together for a year, those ties

(06:13):
are unbreakable. They're just unbreakable. And you guys have been
a witness to some incredible teams and there is that
brotherhood and and no one understands it except the people
in that locker room. And they come together for you know,
each each team is like its own little movie onto
itself each year, and then the team changes the next year,

(06:37):
but they share those experiences and you know they're they're
bound together forever.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
You know, johnathed you made a great point these seasons,
these teams, the run is the shelf. Life is what
in season it really is. Because you're exactly right, everything changed.
Coaches say this all the time. It sounds like coach speak.
But every year is different, they say, And in fact,
every year is different because you know, and I've often

(07:08):
said this to groups. You don't realize, but we change
every day as people, as human beings, because you know,
for example, I'm different today than I was yesterday. Now
I don't notice it, You wouldn't notice it, nobody would.
But the experiences I had yesterday at this time yesterday,
I didn't have those. And so you put that into

(07:31):
a team concept, whether you accomplished the super Bowl or
whatever it is. But you go through the season and
it changes you because you're changing constantly. Human beings were
all changing constantly, and that gets into the team aspect
of it. But I can't agree to more of the
bond that these teams have. And you know, what it's

(07:51):
funny we like to say, well, the championship teams Littombardi
Packers at a great bond over the years, right, And
that's because they won, right now, that there was more
to it than that than just winning. Because I know
Larry mccarran's Packers didn't win a lot of games, or
a lot of championships or any championships. But those guys
when they come back, they're still pretty tight, there's no question.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, you know, I think it's the struggle that binds you. Right,
It's the struggle. It's pain, and it's pressure, and it's
the rigor of all of it. And there's the other thing,
you guys, and you know this as well as anyone.
There's a whole human component to this that is separate
from performing athletics. Right. These are young guys growing up

(08:37):
and all these other experiences together off the off the courts,
and it just binds them together. And but there's another
thing too, And both both of the organizations that you
guys are, you know, cover both Wisconsin and the Packers.
There's a culture play here too. I think the way

(09:00):
the Wisconsin players and administration responded to what happened to
the More family is absolutely remarkable, and we chronicle that
in the film. I'll give you an example. We didn't
cover this in the film, but they were able to
keep Howard More. He had some very serious injuries and
he's still recovering from them. But all sorts of employees

(09:24):
at the University of Wisconsin Athletic Department donated their vacation
time to keep Howard More covered with the health benefits
for another like year and a half. Tony Granado, the
hockey coach, donated his vacation, Mark Johnson donated his vacation.
All of these people just stepped up and said, whatever
we need to do for Howard. And a lot of

(09:48):
that comes from you know, you get the love back
that you give out. And Howard and Jen were pretty
Jen was and Howard is pretty remarked people. When I
started doing the first wave of interviews and I knew
Howard in passing and Jen and passing, but not close friends.

(10:09):
I remember turning to one of my crew guys and
I said, these were not just this was not just
another couple. These people were remarkable. Howard had a way
of bringing his teammates and the student community together. He
was beloved by the student the student fans at the games. Matt,

(10:30):
you were witnessed to that, and Jen was remarkable in
the community as well. And so they were bright lights.
They were bright lights, and when bright lights are diminished,
it has it just it knocks the legs out of everybody.
And that's what this accident did.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
That's the thing about this John that fans who have
followed Wisconsin basketball for a number of years know this,
But this is.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
A new generation.

Speaker 5 (10:57):
Now we're talking about a guy who as a college
player didn't play a lot. His no phistics were very,
very modest, and yet the impact that he still has
to this day, it's.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
A party of one.

Speaker 5 (11:14):
I mean, there have been a lot of popular players
through here with modest statistics, but none I can think
of with the staying power of Howard war from the
time he played, and the excitement that a lot of
other people had when he came back as an assistant coach.
It's very difficult to describe, but I think the film

(11:38):
does a great job of that. Just the impact that well,
I know, we'll have forever.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
You know, Tom Oates is quick to remind us that
he only scored ninety nine points in his career. But
you know who puts the button on it his Stan
van Gundy, who's a remarkable dude. And you know, he said,
Howard Moore is the kind of guy who builds culture.
And in his own way, Howard more was every bit

(12:04):
as important to the University Wisconsin program as Michael Finley
and Sam Decker and you know, and Frank uh so
it I think, and and Stan would know, right, and
uh so, And I think part of it is unselfishness.

(12:26):
I think Howard was a remarkably unselfish dude. And uh
and he you know, he was garrulous, he was loquacious,
and that's the tragic part about it too. He was
he was a good athlete. He was also he lit
up the room. And now he can't walk and he
can't talk. Yeah, and that just haunts everybody who knows him.

Speaker 5 (12:50):
You know, John, take us through the process just as
as best you can, for for us, for for you
and your team, get the interviews.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Putting this together.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
Wayne and I are both struck by there's no narration here,
doesn't need it. Yeah, everybody else tells his or her story,
but walk us through what that's like, getting in touch
in person interviews with players, coaches, everybody involved in this.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Sure, well, you know, a documentary is a process of discovery.
You go in with an idea that might be happening,
but there's a journalistic component to it.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
You know.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
We found out a lot about the accident that wasn't known.
We found witnesses that hadn't been interviewed by the police,
and we got the you know, you know, the first
person descriptions of where everyone was when they got the news.
We did not There was a conscious decision not to
do voiceover. And I'm a writer. I mean, i'd like

(13:51):
I've written movies, and but when there's so much innate
emotion in a story, I think you have to be
very careful to keep it as authentic and honest as
possible and not make it manipulative. And this story didn't

(14:11):
need any engineering to make it powerful, and so I
felt it was our job to get out of the
way of the story and chronicle it with the people
who lived it in as clean and unadorned manner as possible,
because I think sometimes people who make films will get

(14:35):
a very emotional story and then they'll exploit the story.
They'll try to turn up the emotion with music and
you know flowerly, you know, transitional voiceover stuff, and I
think that can be dangerous. I think it can be exploitive.
And the thing I for sure didn't want to do

(14:56):
is exploit what the Mors have been through and what
Vera Barnes, Jennifer's mother has been through. And so we
really went with the less is more sort of approach.
It's very stripped down. It's very stripped down, but I
think it was a good decision to go that way.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
It doesn't feel stripped down. It feels full and deep
and very compelling. And you know, it's interesting Jen's mom
whom you just mentioned, when she was going through the
process that she was going through, she said the first
thing she felt was anger, anger about how this could

(15:39):
possibly happen. And you know that's the thing. You get
that real feeling from these people who are on this video,
and I just I think it's phenomenal the way you
handled it. And for those people who don't aren't familiar
with it. Howard and his family were traveling you mentioned
in twenty nineteen in Michigan at night, a drunk driver

(16:03):
came the wrong way on an interstate and and smacked
him and you know, snuffed out of bright light right there.
And you know, this happens a lot, unfortunately, and it happens.
This is more of a high profile case because we're
talking about it, but this happens a lot. And I
think that's part of the underlying theme that I got

(16:27):
from your film, John, that you know, this happens, and
this is how devastating it is, not just on this level,
but on every level where this occurs.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
I mean, at the end of the day, when you're right,
it's a story about a drunk driving accident, that's what
it is. I mean, and it you know, we go
back and look at the depositions from the people involved,
the young woman. We try not to demonize her, but
the truth is, if she had lived, she would be
in prison for vehicular homicideal under the influence she committed

(17:01):
a terrible crime, even though it was not her intent
to do that. Someone dies from drunk driving every thirty
seven minutes in America, and you know, we don't have
to tell anyone who lives in Wisconsin that it happens.
And you know, there were two guys who helped were
instrumental in this. George Hamill and Tim Valentine. I think
you probably know at least Tim, but they when the

(17:25):
accident happened in May of twenty nineteen, less than a
year after that, COVID hit and so the whole that
sucked all the oxygen out of the room. And as
people came back, Tim Valentine and George Hamil, who's a
Wisconsin grad, We're at a ballgame and George was asking
Tim Valentine all the Moors were doing. Tim's an attorney
in Madison and has acted as a sport agent and

(17:48):
he's been helping the Wars with all the legal affairs
on his own time. And Tim said, you know, it's
a challenge, and George just stops and he goes, we
have to do something for the Moors. We have to
do something for Howard. And that's how this all got started.
And this film is just part of an effort to

(18:09):
raise several million dollars so that there is a trust
to cover Howard's healthcare costs and their son, Jurrell's college costs.
And so you know, the intent of this is to
make sure the Wars don't have to worry about money.
That's the purpose of the film, and to raise awareness,

(18:31):
and I think we're going to hit the number that
we have to hit. There're already the generosity has been impressive.
But then there's a broader issue, and that is, can
we tell a story so people understand what happened, so
that Jen and Jaden didn't die in Vain and Howard
wasn't injured in Vain. That something can be taken from
this that will give people pause when they're leaving the

(18:53):
restaurant or the tavern, and they can have the humility
to turn over their keys or the courage to grab
someone else's.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
John.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
It's a business question here, I'm asking now, But then
it's viewers or listeners of this podcast are wondering, Okay,
I'd love to see this. Sure, the private showing has
yet to occur, but what what are the next steps
now in getting this out so people can can be sure?

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Well, you know, it's show business, so there's showing, there's business.
And we have finished the project and you know, there's
a great quote that says, if you don't spend as
much time promoting your film as you do making it,
you're a fool. So we're now moved into the promotional
phase that the private screening is for a lot of
the donors who've already stepped up and for the people

(19:44):
who appeared in the documentary. But then we will have
a parallel strategy, Matt where we are going to be
reaching out to the major streamers Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Disney.
Documentary films have become the darling genre of the streaming scene.

(20:07):
They love sports documentaries and they like true crime documentaries.
This kind of falls into both genres. Documentaries also allow
them to freshen their menu almost daily, and documentaries compared
to movies where you have a lot of movie stars
making millions of dollars, documentaries are by large lower budget,

(20:33):
lower cost productions. They cost the streamers less money. So
we're hopeful that we will get a deal with one
of the major streamers Netflix, Hulu, Amazon. I'm pretty optimistic
about that. We're going to be working. You know, I've
I've wrote a good little feature film twenty years back

(20:56):
at David Lynch Film. Our lead actor got an Academy
Award nomination for Best Actor. There are a lot of
Wisconsin grads in the movie industry that we're going to
try to exploit those. And then we're also going to
do a handful of movie film festivals and the combination
of working directly approaching the streamers and then work in

(21:20):
the film festivals. We'll think we'll get a good deal
and then the vast majority of the revenues generated by
the streaming rights deal will go to the More Family Trust.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
Wow, that's quite a process just to get it out
and market it, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I mean, yeah, it's it's you know, Wayne, it's it's.
It's it's a labor of love. But it's also tough
because it's a tough story, you know. And uh, the
one of the lines I've used is when the worst
of times bring out the best in people, Okay, and

(21:58):
I do think that's occurred. But not every story has
a happy ending. In fact, I've talked to people about
how do we bring this film to market? And I said,
you know, we should really look at how they marketed
Schindler's List because there's not really a happy ending there either.
But it doesn't mean it's not a powerful story that
shouldn't be told. And I also think there's there are

(22:22):
moments in this film that are so uplifting they make
you want to cry. You know, people, we live in
a real fractious time right now, but it's good to
be reminded how good people are, and this film does that.
There are so many good people in this film who
have stepped up for the Moores and have been them

(22:44):
there for them, starting with Tim Valentine and George Hamill,
but you know Andy Kilbright and Mike Sinley. Here's an anecdote.
We're shooting at the Moore's house. Howard is in a
bed in his home, his parents take care of his
elderly parents, and Richard Griffith, his teammate. While we're shooting,

(23:06):
a big truck pulls into the driveway and offloads a
monstrous container and it's a hyperbaric chamber that Michael Finley
had delivered to the Moor's household so Howard could have
hyperbaric treatment and not have to go down to the
clinic and get packed into an ambulance type thing no

(23:28):
one even knew was coming. Mike just had it, bought
it and had it delivered so that they can just
take Howard into the garage and give him hyperbaric treatment,
which forces oxygen to your blood cells and helps recover
some brain function. Just that happened while we were there.
Shooting with We were totally unaware there was occurring and

(23:53):
I'm sorry. That's beautiful.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
Yeah, that's part of the I mentioned a while ago,
and you touched out again. For those who we'll get
a chance to see this, you'll get every range of emotion.
And part of the reason, John would I lose it
when I watch this is because of how heartwarming it
is to see guys like you know, Finn and Rashard,
Chris Conger, Andy Kilbrandt, and and and the bond that

(24:16):
they have, and and and people as you said, who
maybe didn't know how when he played and only knew
him more in passing and subsequent years, but are so
quick to want to help. And it's you know, a
lot of people have stepped up. And those people they
they they're very private about it, so we'll need their
names out, but they've been willing to help out in

(24:37):
a big way for this. So again I commend you
and your team for for this, for this project or
Road at Night is the name of the documentary. It's
I hope everybody gets a chance to see it, really
really so, because it's it's so well done and it's
really important. It's an important story. It hits close to
home for many of us, but the story really is

(24:58):
national in scope out.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, I think there's a universal component to it and
I'm pretty confident folks are going to be able to
see it.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, Yeah, we hope.

Speaker 5 (25:09):
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but we need to do it anyway because I think
John's career John Roach Projects, by the way, established it

(25:33):
was nineteen eighty five, Rochie, when you established four.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Eighty four, Yeah, forty years.

Speaker 5 (25:39):
What I heard was when I first moved to Madison
from Ohio, you know, getting the cable set up and
just getting our stuff together and a channel surfing, and
I run across this show that since then has been
often imitated, never duplicated, called the sports writers on TV.

(26:01):
Those of a certain age know what I'm talking about.
For those who don't go find it, get on YouTube whatever.
Ben Bentley, Bill Jous, Bill Gleason, Rick Tellender sitting around
a table, cigar smoke in the air. YEP, and it's
the forerunner of everybody who's tried to put together good
sports talk shows since.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
How did that come about?

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Well, I was a producer in Chicago at WLS Television,
the ABC owned station. My first job was as a
segment producer on the show that became Oprah. And I
was working there and my wife and I just got married.
My wife had family, had had some deaths in the family,

(26:47):
so we were going back and forth a lot, practicing
some big Catholic family triage. And I listened to w
WG and radio and Bill Gleeson and Jows and a
couple of the guys Ben Bentley. They had a little
radio show and I was captivated by it. And I
was captivated because my dad was a minor league ball

(27:10):
In fact, he played for the Appleton paper Makers Wayne
D Level ball back in the fifties. Yeah, he was
a ballplayer. And he had a poker group in our
basement in my home in Madison, and he had a
bunch of big ten officials. We played poker with Jean Calhoun,
Steve Slattery, Otto Pulse. These are all legendary old time

(27:33):
Madison guys. And they would go out and officiate games
all over the Big ten and then come play poker
Thursday night, and I got to hear the unvarnished versions
of what happened at those games. And I would perch
on the stairs and look down on them. There's this
pool of light and they were on the poker table.
And when I heard list of these guys on radio,

(27:54):
I thought, oh my god, that sounds like my dad's
poker thing. So I did a piece on them for WLS.
TIS pitched it as a show. They didn't like it.
I then moved on with I went independent. I wanted
to own the content I created. They thought I was
nuts to leave WLS, but I did, and I pitched
the show to WFLD Television, which is the Fox affiliate

(28:19):
in Chicago, and a guy named Jerk Zimmerman, who was
the GM. He picked it up. We ran for forty episodes,
got canceled, and then the godfather of the show, Jim Corno,
who has since passed but just a tremendous man, he
contacted me. He said, John, I really like your show.
We're starting up this regional cable called Sports Channel. This

(28:43):
was what all the regional cables are popping up. When
people used to steal the signal off the telephone pole. Okay,
I remember that, the bars and stuff. They would just
climb up the pole and plug it in and we
got on the air. There we had a safe hole
and we ran for thirteen years, and from the Chicago

(29:04):
market it got syndicated out to all the sports regionals
as I said. As I said, we were the best
rain delay programming in the history of sports. And we
just developed a cult following David Letterman, Jack Nicholson, Pat
Sayjack and then the Second City people in Chicago developed

(29:27):
a sketch based upon our show, and then that troope
ended up on SNL and that ended up being the
Bear's de Bull Sketch with George went Who's a friend?
Chris Barley family friend. So we kind of became part
of culture. And we ran for thirteen years. And it
was an hour long show, unscripted, formatted by topic, but unscripted.

(29:53):
And these four guys knew each other, and you guys know,
you can say things to friends that you can't say
to an acquaintance, and they did. They went at it
hammer and tong and they did, you know, Gleason. The
show ran just as long as Gleason's Cigar Last and
it was such a gratifying show. It's kind of weird,

(30:14):
but I was a fan of the show I created.
I loved watching them. They could be contentious. They treated
me like the editor. They would our show brief Our
show briefings was full metal jacket. But you know, at
the time, Rick Tellender was doing a lot of covers
for Sports Illustrated. Jousey covered the Big Ten, Gleason covered

(30:37):
the Bears and the in the NFL. In fact, Gleeson
once told the story Wayne of when he used to
cover the Bears. They would go up to cover the
Bears and Packers, and Vince Lombardi would invite the big
city writers over to the house after the game for
spaghetti and drinks because he loved the big city guys
coming to Green Bay, because he was a big city

(30:58):
guy himself. So you got to hear those stories.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Oh, no question about it. You know, if you talked well.
Most of them have passed on. But I used to
hear stories from some of the guys like Lee Remol
and some of the other writers, Bud Lee. Lombardi treated
the local media like garbage, and he rolled out the
red carpet for anyone, Yeah, from New York or Chicago

(31:22):
or Los Angeles especially, Yeah, and you're right, I mean
the cocktail parties at the end of the week. There
are so many Packers coaches. I wish I could say
this to over the years that you know, guys, Lombardi
at the end of the day on Friday was completely
at ease. Yeh was, you know, ready to entertain because

(31:44):
his job was done. And these coaches today, that job
is never done. They're still doing their job. You know,
five minutes before the game, they've got something going, and
that Lombardi just said, Okay, I've done all I can.
We're gonna go out and play the game. You know.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
So, but that's kind of the way he was. That
was the old time. You know, today it's they've made
the game Rocket Scientry and you can't.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Here's another anecdote. So, so the guys are talking about
the movie with Tommy Lee Jones called Cob, about Ty Cobb,
and they're talking about it, and Bill Jous goes, well,
he was a racist, and you know, you'd come in
with his spikes sharpened and come up hye and and
and and he was a racist and and Bill Gleeson goes,

(32:32):
you can't judge a man of that time. By this
time he wasn't a bad guy. And Gleason was speaking
about Cob and the conversation goes on, and Rick Teller goes,
wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Bill,
you're talking like you knew Tay Cob. That's not even possible,
is it. And he goes, yes, I met Tay Cob.
I knew Tay Cob. And he goes, what, how could

(32:55):
that even be? Goes, well, I was a young punk
reporter and I'd done a story in one of the
Chicago Black Sox, and he had been a playing contemporary
of Ty Cobbs. And when Cobb was near the end
of his life, he was in ill health, he took
a tour around the country to visit his old teammates,
and they all loved him because he touted a stock

(33:16):
to all of them when he was a player, and
that stock was Coca cola. And all the guys who
bought Coca Cola stock at Ty Cobb's advice did much
better with that stock than they did with their careers.
And so this old catcher from the Black Sox, the
White Sox calls Gleason up and goes, he called Bill Gleason, kid,

(33:40):
kid Gleason because there was a kid Gleason on the
Black Sox. And he goes, kid, why don't you come
over the peaches in town. Bill Gleason goes the peach
and he goes, kid Ty Cob the Georgia Peach. We're
playing cards in my basement. And so he came over,
and Gleason said, I've never heard better swearing in my life.
But he met Zai Cobb.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
That's what I loved about that show.

Speaker 5 (34:03):
And I want to sound like the old man yelling
at cloud here, but there's a lot of I said,
often imitated, never duplicated. These guys were actually like they
actually covered teams. They weren't just doing a show from
a studio or from their basement, never having left said
basement to be around players coaches. And that that was

(34:24):
the thing I remember seeing.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
I would see.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
Jows at Big ten media days or whatever, and he
would be he'd have a maybe a cup of coffee,
and he'd have like looked like a week's worth of
Chicago Tribune newspapers. Know the actual newspapers long before we
started reading everything on our phone and just you know,
look at all disheveled that. That's a newspaper guy right there.
And Rick Tellender was the hot shot, young gun in.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
The midst of all of that.

Speaker 5 (34:51):
But that's what I appreciated about that show, which I
you know again old Van yelling at cloud here.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Well, no missing that.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Now, there's an important thing. The print guys hung around
the story longer than Remember I came out of TV.
You know, they were great brackets, but they would run
the highlights and that would be it. The print guys
hang around the scene almost all day. They go to practices,
they're in the locker room longer they can. They can
get up an athlete over in a corner and actually

(35:20):
have a conversation with him sometimes. So those old print
guys they picked up a lot of stuff hanging in
the locker room, you know. And they also because you
have to write a longer piece, I think they had
to be better observers.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Right.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
The TV guys they've got a quicker churn deadline. You know,
I have sympathy for them too, you know, they got
to get back and get ready for the newscript. But
the newspaper guys, they can you know, they got to
let that column can percolate a little bit, right, And
they also need more content because ordinarily they're written piece

(36:00):
was longer, so it had to have more stuff in it,
and so they had to go find it. So yeah,
it was they were inkschanged wretches as they called them,
but they they they covered the beat pretty darn well.

Speaker 5 (36:14):
It's a different world, Wayne. You talked about the and
you guys talked about the Lombardi cocktail parties. The closest
thing in college was Joe Paterno. On Friday nights before
games in State College, there would be a gathering cocktail
party and he would be hanging around and then eventually
he stopped because that that obviously, that is casual conversation.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Everything's off the record. You're shooting the bull.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
And apparently that was violated and Esus said.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
Forget it. I don't want to do it anymore.

Speaker 5 (36:44):
But as much as that is, you know days gone
by in the NFL, same thing with college. There the
coaches are pulled up in their room. I could go
I could go up and see Paul now and then
for risk, but that was more of a one on
one or maybe a small group of people well, but
the cocktail parties that nah, you know, that's in college

(37:04):
that well.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
You know, between the film and this topic, it does
tie one thing in, and that is the human factor.
And sadly, the NFL and college sports now have become
such a big business with millions and billions of dollars
hanging in the balance, that somehow the human factor is

(37:25):
deemed to be too risky to engage in. And I
lament that, you know, because it's still just human beings
doing their best. But it's all become so sophisticated and
there's so much money on the table that it it
doesn't all, you know, money doesn't always bring out the
best instincts in people are the best of humans, And

(37:47):
sadly that's that's kind of a foot now. Although I
would argue, and I don't know if it'll last, but
Wisconsin certainly has a good culture in the midst of it,
and so do the Packers. The Packers are absolutely remarkable
in that respect, in that there still is some humanity there.
But I'm telling you, with the billions of dollars at stake,

(38:12):
it just makes it hard to manage that part of it, it.

Speaker 5 (38:16):
Does, you guys, I think about that watching this film
eroded nights in the college era we're in now with
the transfer portal and waster movement constantly. Are we still
going to have these reunions?

Speaker 3 (38:34):
You know?

Speaker 5 (38:34):
Are guys going to be able to come back ten
twenty thirty years later and talk about the good old days?
Or are a lot of those guys are going to
be here long enough? It either at wisconcert or whatever
school we'll see. But I agree with you. I can
tell you that with Wisconsin, the culture is still There's
a new staff, the messaging might be different, but I
think the culture is still in place here and knock

(38:56):
on wood, that will never change.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I think there's a lesson to be learned from the
Hackers because they're professional franchise. But I think that the
culture at Green Bay is second to none, and they've
managed to preserve it in this big business era. And
you know, Wayne, I don't know what your observations are
on it, but just from Afar, they've they've managed it

(39:19):
remarkably well. And you know there are other people who
don't manage I mean, the cowboys are struggling to manage it.
But what happened? What goes on in Green Bay. I
hope people in Wisconsin appreciate what we have with the
Packers because it's absolutely remarkable.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
You know, it's interesting about the culture change and everything
else that the Packers are kind of open there. Maybe
they're a little more open than most organizations because they're
actually there is the fact that they have the fans
on the team, although that doesn't come into play in

(40:00):
terms of who they're going to go out and get
the pre agency like that, or that fans are going
to reap some kind of a reward if the Packers
have a great financial year or anything like that, but
that is kind of goes into the thinking, I think,
at least the you know, pre thought of everything they
do and that hey, you know, we are a publicly

(40:22):
owned a team, and that's a little different than Jerry
Jones owns the Cowboys and the mccaskeys own the Bears
and the Marizone the Giants, that kind of thing. There's
a little bit of a difference there. But I will
say this, Uh, these are all billion not million billion
dollar organizations. Now in the days of walking into that

(40:43):
little pill box headquarters in the North End zone of
lambeau Field and walking up a flight of stairs into
the President and CEO's office. Bob Harlan is sitting down
and saying, Bob, how you doing today, and just chatting
for a few minutes. That doesn't happen. You've got to
pass cards, you got to have code, you got to
get you've got to be clear to get onto certain

(41:03):
floors at lambeau Field. And it's kind of the product
of what the NFL and sports have become. And that
is with all the money at stake, And you're exactly right, John,
it's changed things. And in many respects, there's still some
culture left somewhere in some of these places, but it's
a lot different than it used to be, and it's
not quite as open or casual because you know what,

(41:26):
with big money comes the need for big privacy. I
guess in some respects, more money.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
More problems. Yeah, to quote Jay Z, Yeah, And I
kind of lament that, and I do feel you know,
I grew up in Madison. I used to go watch
I used to ask for Pat Richter's chin strap after practice,
Louis Allen, pat Richter, ken Bowman. I grew up five
blocks from Camp Randall and what it has become now

(41:58):
I understand why I'm in the b I understand why
it's incredible entertainment commodity. People can't get enough of it.
Although I wear about overexposure a little bit and so,
but you know, I do miss the romance of it
and the when it was a smaller thing. And it's

(42:21):
never going to go back. That's the nature of the beast. Frankly,
I think it's only going to get bigger. But I
will say this, there's a reason it's blown up, and
that is the artistry and grace and drama of the
games are just gobsmacking. I mean, Romeo Dobbs this weekend,

(42:43):
here's a guy who's struggled personally. There's some drama there.
He comes out, he's surrounded by his teammates, his two
wonderful catches. You know, when these guys are flying through
the air, that's art, that's beauty. It's not just you know,
ump and iron and stuff. When you see these guys
move so fast, so artfully, they're like ballet artists. It's sports,

(43:07):
but it's also remarkable to witness. And I mean, there's
a reason why it's become so popular.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah, no, I agree, Rochie.

Speaker 5 (43:15):
I would say the same thing with the college game.
I mean, there's a line in the industry, you want
to call it this now, is that Sunday through Friday
can be pretty annoying and head scratching with what's going on,
but Saturday is still pretty special. And we're seeing that
in college football this year with these upsets. Unranked teams
beaten the ranked teams down of the wire games. The

(43:36):
product kind of bails out the hot mess that occurs.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
The other sixties of the week. And that's man, I
we tune in.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
The Big Ten now adding these West Coast teams. I
don't know if you guys saw the Ohio State Oregon game,
ye oh my god, that wasn't unbelievable game. And I
didn't know Oregon was that loud. I think they're kind
of throwing down to Camp Randall all thettle bit, but
that game was ridiculous. And you know, now the Big Ten,

(44:06):
you know, the NFL owned Sunday, The Big Ten owns
Saturday from go on to from you know, ten am
to midnight. And that's again, you know, it's kind of
like strange bedfellows, but it's tremendous entertainment.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
John Roach, the filmmaker, is our guest and Roachie. You
guys are both right. I mean at first I said,
what the Big ten is?

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Now?

Speaker 3 (44:32):
What is it?

Speaker 4 (44:33):
Sixteen teams?

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Man? I lose track.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Well, first moment, you call it at the moment.

Speaker 4 (44:38):
And also and.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
They still call themselves the Big ten. I mean that's
a cognitive dissonance. I love it. It is still the
Big twelve.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
And they're bigger than twelve I think, or maybe they're
not as big, you know whatever, but it used to be,
you know the thing I as a consumer, and I've
thought a lot about this this fall, Matt, especially you
guys going out to sc and then that, Hey, listen,
you talk.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
About the game at Oregon.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
The game before that in LA wasn't bad either, penncall oh,
Penn State absolutely, Rogers. Yeah, those are games, guys. We
would get a game like that once or twice a year,
and some not every year. And that's the beauty of
this thing, if there's a beauty in this big deal
that we're talking about, which is all to television driven
and none of it has anything to do with any

(45:24):
other sport. It's all about television. It's all about football.
It's about television and that's all it is, but we're
getting some great matchups in the regular season.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (45:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Also, the level of competition is jaw dropping.

Speaker 5 (45:44):
Yeah yeah, talent level is Yeah, that's only gonna grow too,
I think. You know, don't be surprised. You know, we
saw Wisconsin play on Obama. You know, go down there
next year, Notre Dame in a couple of years. Don't
be surprised if he've been out of conference. You see
more and more of those kind of games because, as
you said, it's a television show. The partners want intriguing

(46:06):
matchups whenever possible, and players love to play in those
kind of games too. But yeah, I just that the
product is great. Hopefully the culture, the camaraderie can stay
the same. And it again circle back to John your
documentary or road at Night. You feel everything watching this,

(46:29):
not the least of which is what a team can
do together. Thirty years removed from the Wisconsin Badgers playing career.
I can't say enough how this is powerful. It's important,
and I hope as many people as possible get a
chance to see it once it's released streaming service. However,

(46:51):
somebody can view it because it is.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
You're among the first to see it, you guys, and
so your your observations. I'm you know, when you work
on some of these things, you're in a you're in seclusion, right.
And I'm nervous as a cat about the screening next
week because I'm gonna be sitting in a room with
three hundred fifty people watching the work to me and
Danny Boyle and Joe Fong and my team have done.

(47:16):
And the media is going to be there because having
the media screening with the as part of the whole
private thing. And I've told my wife Diana, and I said,
I'm gonna I don't I'm I may have to leave
the room because it's it's really hard to work on
something for eighteen months and then just lay it out

(47:37):
for people. I've done it before, but it's you get
a little antsy.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
Yeah, it's kind of like your moment of truth, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (47:47):
It is waite, it is it?

Speaker 4 (47:49):
Yeah, You've put yourself out there. But I can tell
you this, I can't think of a film that was
more emotional to watch.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Then Your Pill.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
And it's going to be a hit if you get
it out there, guarantee it. Well.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
The thing that I the thing that I take pride
in you know, when you do a film. Films are
not ephemeral or fleeting. They're of substance, and when you
do a film, you impart a touch of immortality to
the people in the film. We can still see John
Wayne when we turn on the TV. And as long

(48:27):
as this film is seen, we will invoke Jennifer and
Jaden's name and Howard's struggle and what his parents and
his teammates did for him. That will never go away.
It will never go away. Long after we are dead
and gone, that film will be floating around to remind

(48:47):
people of how the worst of times did bring out
the best in people. Yeah, and that that that that's
why movies are special. That's why movies are special.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
There is strength in this. In the end, there is strength.
I had one last question for you. I was curious
about jeral I didn't see him interviewed in this thing.
What was the feeling there would happen? And how is
he doing now? The sun Ll Durell.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
First of all, Richard said it in the film. When
Durell was a hero, he dragged his dad out of
the car. And as Richard said, if Durell at thirteen
fourteen years old. Hadn't been able to muscle his dad
out of the car, we'd be having a different conversation.
He's great. He is a freshman at Edgewood College in Madison.

(49:35):
The hope is that he will. He had a very
challenging high school career given what occurred, so he's kind
of getting his academics in order hopefully to get him
on track to be admitted into the University of Wisconsin.
I think a lot of people are rooting for that.
A lot of kids do that route because Wisconsin is
a tough gut But he's a beautiful kid. We did

(49:56):
not We did interview him briefly, but I have to
tell you that Trent and Howard are very protective of him,
and we did. I had not planned on interviewing him.
We did not want to make him relive that night, Okay,
and he did. While we were interviewing Darnell Moore, Howard's brother, Trenis,

(50:18):
and Howard. At the end, Durell said I'd like to
be interviewed, and so Trennis pulled me aside and she
just said short and sweet and nothing heavy, and that's
what we did. I think we do have to protect
him yet, and so that was a conscious decision not
to interview him as it related to the events of

(50:40):
the evening, which were horrific. Yeah, but boys, he is
a sweet kid and he is he is so handsome
it takes your breath away. I said. On set, I said, man, Durell,
you know you could be a movie star. My brother
Jimmy was working audio goes, hasn't he been through enough
without making him be an actor? But I will tell

(51:06):
you one other anecdote, because you have to laugh so
you don't cry. So I set the film to the
moors or to get their approval, and to Vera Barnes,
Jennifer's mother, over in Detroit. And so I spoke with
Jennifer Vera after she saw it, and she just said, well,
John had brought back some very painful memories. And I

(51:27):
do have one note. I go, oh, what is a via?
She goes, I wish you'd had you had had wardrobe
and makeup. And I said, rah, it's a documentary. We
don't have money for that. But she was a trooper.
But her interview, you guys, is a soliloquy on grief.
It is one of the most remarkable pieces of film

(51:50):
I've ever seen, and she handles it with such grace
and dignity, and I think she helps others who have
experienced tragedy. You know, she airs it out awfully. Well, yeah,
she really does terrific, terrific work. John, It's been a
delight having you on the podcast. Wait, I'm so thrilled

(52:13):
to meet you. You're just you know, you're a legend. Man.
You're too young to be a legend, but you are
a leegend. So is Matt.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
You know, we appreciate it, you know, I can't. I
wish you all the best with this. I think it's
it's one of the most powerful films I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Well, thank you so much. And again, it's all to
make sure that we raise enough money for the moors.
That money is the last thing they worry about.

Speaker 5 (52:43):
We want to let people know here, guys that the
website to help out. As John was saying that, you know,
the goal is to you know, let money be the
least of the family's concerns. The website is do more
for thirty four dot d o m oo R e

(53:04):
f o R than the number thirty four dot com.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Do more for thirty.

Speaker 5 (53:09):
Four dot com whatever you can do, we know the
family would greatly appreciate.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
And that does it for us. This time special thanks
to filmmaker John Roach who's film A Road at Night,
a human story of tragedy and strength, will be available
for viewing in the very near future. Our producer engineer
Dave McCann, our executive producer Jeff Tyler. For Matt, this
is Wayne. Thank you very much for listening to the
Lerovian La Pey Podcast.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
The Laravian La Pey Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
Podcasts with hosts Wayne Lervie and Matt Lapey, with production
engineering by Dave McCann. The Lreavian La Pey Podcast is
presented by UW Credit Union. Here for every you listen
to other episodes available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
Something an animality, have a