Peter Yarrow and Noel “Paul” Stookey of Peter, Paul & Mary

Peter Yarrow and Noel “Paul” Stookey of Peter, Paul & Mary offer insights on their recent induction into the Folk Americana Roots Hall of Fame (FARHOF), their lifelong dedication to social change and justice, and warm memories of their times together with Mary Travers.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome back to What's at Risk.I'm Mike Christian. Peter, Paul and
Mary were at the forefront of thefolk music revival of the nineteen sixties and
created a bridge between traditional folk musicand folk rock. After meeting in New

(00:23):
York City's Greenwich Village, Peter Yarrow, Noel, Paul Stookey and Mary Travers
formed a group in nineteen sixty one. Playing in folk clubs and on college
campuses, they built a youthful followingwith their lyricism, tight harmonies, and
spare sound. Usually accompanied only byYarrow and Stockie on acoustic guitars, they

(00:46):
popularized both new and traditional folk songsby such songwriters as Woody Guthrie, This
Land as Your Land, The Weavers, If I Had a Hammer, Bob
Dylan Blowing in the Wind, andLaura Niro and When I Die. They
had a worldwide hit with John Denver'sLeaving on a Jet Plane. The trio

(01:06):
was recently inducted in the Folk AmericanaRoots Hall of Fame, and Peter and
Noel are still touring and still keenlyfocused on social justice issues. All Right,
Well, we're honored to have PeterYarrow and Noel Paul Stookey here is
our guest today. Thank you guysfor joining. I really appreciate it.

(01:26):
And let me start by saying congratulationsfor being in the inaugural class of the
Folk Americana Roots Hall of Fame.Congratulations. Well, I want to say
thank you, but I also wantto tell you something like it's a good
thing that I'm here because Noel isso exorbitantly humble, if that makes sense,

(01:51):
that this is a lot to dowith his support and hard work and
connecting the dots for shows, foldingand the other people over the past two
three years. It really we've wanteda folk museum for decades and decades,
and for that reason, we wereasked at certain points, well, what

(02:12):
about the rock and roll? Weare not a division of rock and roll.
We are folk music is its ownentity. I don't care about creating
a size of it. It's nota bigger balloon but it is or a
smaller balloon, but it's its ownidentity and it needs to be thought of

(02:34):
as such and preserved as such.And that's why this is so important,
and that's why Noel Paul Stuffy ismy hero today and my pain in the
butt tomorrow. Well congratulations, nofor pushing it forward. I just want
to clear up one thing though,I did recuse myself when when they were
listing the possibility of honor Reese,I said, well, you know,

(02:59):
what about being Paula Mary. Theysaid, well, we have longevity,
But I have to re accuse myvote myself from the vote. I can't
vote on that. And despite that, you still got in. So that's
okay. Overwhelming odds, I guessexactly. So where you get you were,
I can't imagine you would have beensurprised by this. I mean,
it seems like a natural choice tome. But what do you think about

(03:22):
getting in in that inaugural class.There's only going to be one inaugural class,
so that makes it distinctive in andof itself, right, Yeah,
I'm delighted that the new folks likeJoey are in there, you know,
and the birds. I mean,that's really but then again, that is
what folk Americana and roots encompasses.You know. When Peter made the point

(03:42):
about being asked to be in theRock and Roll Hall of Fame and turning
it down because it didn't it seemedlike it was too narrow a focus for
the kind of music that Peter Maryand I did for fifty years. I
recognize now, and I think mostfolks do, that music's ethics fueled a
whole revolution in music in the sixties. That revolution continues now, even in

(04:08):
pop music. Folk music really isa more of an embracing medium, I
think, no question. And theway that folk music, you know,
encapsulates the culture and the history ofthe world and our nation, I think
it's that makes it even more distinctive. It is an experience, a kind
of music that basically says I care, that basically says I respect you,

(04:32):
that basically says I have the capacityfor empathy. And in the world of
our today, I happen to believethat particular modality of exchange is going to
be the difference between our getting itout of this hole that we're in or

(04:53):
not. We have here a mediumthat is really devoted to that very thing.
So to me, we don't haveto measure something's quality or value by
its size. We just have toat this point say how grateful we are
that it exists and is being honoredand it is being continued. Yeah,

(05:15):
I totally agree, and I thinkno, you'll probably know this because you're
a part of the process. Recordsales were not a criteria for getting into
the hall. I was talking toDon Was last week, and you guys
know who Don is. And Iasked him, when you were growing up
in Detroit, Don, what weresome of your favorite artists and who was

(05:36):
influential, and he immediately said,Peter, Paul and Marry that's who we
listened to. I think you know, Peter. We haven't spoken about the
why of how we became so familiararound the world, but I'm beginning to
recognize that our insistence on including evenchildren's music as part of the expression of

(06:01):
folk played such a significant part.I mean, of course Puff the Magic
Dragon became, you know, aglobal hit, but at the root of
Puff the Magic Dragon was our loveand our need to encourage the youngs about
to be citizens of the world.And whether that was its rating it's pouring,

(06:24):
whether that's I mean, there arecountless children's songs that teach much deeper
ethical lessons than it appears at first. I have to underscore that also because
I have to represent the writers ofthat song myself and London Off the Magic
Dragon. Is that children's tale.But it is again in essence, a

(06:46):
song that brings tears for people's eyesbecause it says I care. It's a
song about our caring about each otherrather than competing with each other and fighting
with each other and dissing each other. And I think that caring, especially
through music, comes through with thestorytelling and songs, especially in folk songs.

(07:10):
You've written some wonderful songs that Ithink just you know, the wedding
song for you know, and manysongs for you Light one Candle, Peter.
How do you feel like those songscame through for you? Those are
both you know, iconic songs andthey just appear or do you Is it
a process for you in the songwriting? How in the art songs that tell

(07:33):
stories. I'm not sure that anybodyhasn't heard the story about Peter asking me
to bless his wedding of the song. The wedding song came to be because
I had just gone through a spiritualreadbirth and I knew how to ask the
question. I said, how wouldyou capital why manifest yourself at Peter's wedding?

(07:53):
And that's why the lyric came out. I am now to be among
you at the calling of your heart. Sure the troubadour is acting on my
part. So I mean other thanthat, you know, a song like
l Salvador, for instance, youknow, was really produced from my reaction
to a series of articles in Sojourner'smagazine. I'm sure Peter can give examples

(08:16):
of how he was moved by aparticular circumstance. But I love the fact
that folks folk music's response to dayto day life is a kind of encouraging
slice of everyday life. I'm answeringfor myself about, for instance, Light
One Candle. I either get aninstruction for myself. I've got to write

(08:41):
this song or get an instruction fromPeter, Paul and Mary. But I'm
you know, I'm listening to Noel, Paul Stuki and Mary Allen tranverse and
in Light one Candle's case, wehad a concert at Carnie Hall. It
was a Christmas concert in the traditionof the Weavers, and until really about

(09:05):
twenty years ago, was not maybeactually it was more thirty years ago.
I was brought up really as anethical culture rather than in a Jewish observance,
but with what was going on inIsrael, at the time with the
terrible kinds of circumstances that led towhat we're now seeing, the occupation,

(09:31):
etc. I went over there tosee what was going on, and I
basically had the inspiration saying, notin my name, So if it's not
in my name, what is inmy name? And when they said to
me, no, and they writea song for Hanukah, I was on
duty, so to speak, andI wrote it just like no was on

(09:54):
duty when I said, right,you're my best man. For goodness sakes,
got song for us, you know, bless our wedding. Well,
in my case, the words thatI wrote, I now realize, and
I think this happens a lot withwriters that you don't even know, because
you're channeling something that doesn't all comefrom you or for your brain. It

(10:16):
comes from the totality of your experience, and you've become this cumulative force that
belongs to everybody. And it's aprophetic voice that comes through you. And
here in the words, it's aslight one candle for the strength that we
need to never become our own fault. So these things come from instructions for

(10:37):
me, from myself or from otherswho inspire me, or challenge me.
These are touch points, you know, along the way of people who have
not only moved but inspired us.And polk music is that kind of inclusive
thing? Somebody asked me because Joniis supposed to be at the induction ceremonies,
So somebody said, is there achance that you and Peter will call

(10:58):
Joan of Us said, you can'tput that many folk musicians in a room.
The possibility of somebody's sectory together.Well, now it's a big expectation
because it came out in that BostonGlobe article two. That's right, I'm
banking on it, frankly. Soyou guys just both talked about it.
But social change and social themes andsocial justice have been so important, particularly

(11:24):
in the folk music that came atthe height of that period back in the
sixties and early seventies. Why doyou think that is? Do you feel
that as from your standpoint as beingmusicians, do you also feel an extra
responsibility to be able to push forwardthose social causes and to be a little

(11:45):
bit of a flag bearer for thatwhich you were in the sixties. Frankly,
whether you want it to be ornot, I probably have a more
benign answer than Peter would, becauseI do see a cross currency of technology
happening at the sixties. I meanradio, for instance, did you know
that Woody Guthrie had a top tenhit in nineteen forty seven with this Land

(12:09):
as Your Land? I didn't knowthat. I recently I had cause to
go in and look at radio playover these past sixty seventy years, and
to a large extent, America's theglobe's capacity to speak to each other through
music almost immediately. I mean,you know, open a microphone. If
you're singing live, then you're reachinga lot of people. If it's on

(12:31):
a record, you put it onthe turntable, you're reaching a lot of
people. I think when I saidBeninn, I mean rather than an emphasis
placed on the desires of the folkartists to be heard because the concerns that
they carried were so important, Ithink it's a I think it's a conjunction

(12:52):
of technology and the capacity to speakto a large number of people, and
that we're concerned because we're in aworld now that is in touch with so
many different components. I do thinkthat the sixties began something mostly because the
communication avenues were available, and Ihave a few words on that too.

(13:18):
This is it's fun having this interviewbecause it's like a discussion with you,
But it's also the kind of discussionsthat Nolan and I have all the time
about our different perspectives that are alwaysintersecting but always enriching each other. To
me, there was a time whenMarshall mccluan said, the medium itself,

(13:39):
the medium of communication, is indeed, in certain ways the message. I
never really got that in terms ofhow it now has appeared. I think
that the net self, in certainways is extraordinary in its capacity to share

(14:07):
information, to allow people to coalesce, to to democratize the information. I
can go on and on, Buton balance, the danger of it has
now reached a place which is scarybecause inherently it is a medium. The
way it's being distributed it may andseparates people and creates boundaries and distances that

(14:35):
create fear, mistrust and hatred,and that if that were not the case
in today's world, I do notthink we would be facing what we're facing
them. So you know, Ifeel more than ever committed, as I
was saying before, my I'm alwaysthinking how can I doing what I've will

(15:00):
always done, use music or somethingto inspire to bring people into a place
of unanimity of spirit, you know, and Joe always says, you guys
both have heard him say this,I'm sure a million times. Is that
the arts and music heel and theymake us a civilized society. And I
think that that's true, and itcertainly you both have made the same point

(15:22):
is needed more than ever now.And that's why I think the Farhof and
this Folk Americana Roots Hall of Fameand the message that can come out of
that and the education that can comeout of that, especially for our young
people, maybe is a step inthe direction you were talking about. Peter.
I appreciate that. And I alsothink that what the Faraheiff, I

(15:43):
hope will do is make accessible thelegacy, tools and perspectives of artists who
experienced this so that people could comeand hear it. The Bob Dylan came
to the feet what he goes throughand was inspired by that. You take

(16:06):
the panoply of artists now, andyou're coming not to be entertained, You're
coming to be moved. You're comingto have a sense of history and to
decide perhaps when you come to thefirehouse, how you can carry on this
tradition. I think it's important tolist the number of people that are going
to be, you know, inductedGordon Lightfoot, Jean Richie, John Prime,

(16:30):
Johnny Cash, Josh Waite, ledBelly, Odetta Oscar Brand, Pete
Seeger, Richie Havens, Woody Guthrie. And those are the ones who you
know were in the genre at leastforty five years prior to this year of
induction. Then there's the living artist, Bob Dylan and Bonnie Raid, Emmy

(16:52):
Lou Harris, James Taylor, JoniDiez, Joni Mitchell, David Stables,
ramlind Jack Elliott, Hosh Mahal,Willie Nelson, and to be you know
with the band and the Birds andthe Weavers, Peter Mary and I are
you know, I'm just so tickledto be part of such a wide outreach
by Jospalder you and the far Yeah, for sure. And I thank you

(17:15):
for listing the names. Nolah,I know that you were you were looking
for him and I found him.I've been looking for him and you know
I knew you'd back me up eventually. Thank you. You guys are the
greatest guests. It makes it mucheasier. So let me ask a couple
of things that you know. Backto the social change thing. I just
want to put you both on thespot a little bit because you both have

(17:36):
nonprofit organizations and Peter yours' operation respectand know it's music to life. You
do it with Elizabeth, your daughteri've met, and maybe just a little
bit from each of you about yourorganizations and what inspired those on cremation respect
was My mother was a teacher,and I inherit those kinds of predispositions so

(18:03):
that I would, although I wasn'ta trained pedagogue, I would go to
my kids' classes once a week andsing songs and talk about their meaning.
And it's a great way to teachhistory is to examine those songs. And
I had taught a course in Cornelland info music, and I saw how

(18:26):
transformational it was for the students atCornell in the nineteen fifties to share something
that opened their hearts to each other, which was the singing of folk music.
And I was the instructor. Andof course that was popularly called not
English three fifty five threes fifty six, but romp and stop. The important

(18:49):
thing is that when I entered theworld of performing, I didn't enter it
with the ordinary inclinations of a showbusiness guy. I inherited by impulses from
my mother, who was a teacher. I wanted to I wanted to share
what I saw as the beauty andthe truth, and we developed the tools

(19:15):
of a non violent conflict resolution fromthe work that had been done, and
we were in before you know,it still exists, but we were just,
by our own account, over twentythousand students schools in America and for
instance, in Israel, we werein seventy percent of the middle schools,

(19:37):
both Arabic and Jewish, and theyused it to tamp down the hostility and
the fear and the rage when therewas a conflict. That's what it brought
me to. I brought all thepeople married, my mom and my own
experience, and I was given aninstruction by circumstances, and that's how Operation

(20:00):
Respect was born. Yeah, that'sterrific. No, how about euro Music
Life? Yeah, Music to Lifereally had two or three stages to continue
the story about the wedding song.You know, record companies need to print
something on their label whenever they issuea piece of music that indicates who the

(20:22):
author and who the publishing company is. Well, I had no trouble with
the publishing company, but the authorhere. I didn't want to write down
good as the author because I feltthat it would be somewhat difficult to get
the checks mail to the proper location. You wouldn't want to hear the royalties
with me there. So I turnedto my wife. I said, well

(20:44):
am I going to do? Andshe said, what do you mean?
I said, well, the moneysare going to go someplace. So I
created the public Domain Foundation. Thepublic Domain Foundation had its first connection with
Music to Life through a series ofcontests, songwriting contests, the winners of
which the finalists of which would appearat the Curville Folk Festival. And so

(21:08):
the winners were all the finalists wereall included on a CD. Well that's
too old school for my daughter,she said. You know, aside from
writing these incredible pieces of music,these many of these artists want to have
an effect in their community. Theysee the need, whether it's in prisons

(21:32):
or homelessness or addiction, and theywant to move in and do something with
community support. And Dad, Iknow how they can be mentored, how
they can be financially supported, howthey can on and on. So to
a large extent, my daughter Elizabethhas taken music to life to the next
level. Deserving I think of thehalf million dollars that came from Melon Foundation,

(21:55):
and deserving of the over four hundredsinger songwriters coast to coast that are
in line for this mentoring and placementin their communities procedure. That's terrific that
you're both doing that, And Ilook at it as maybe even a little
bit of an inspiration to Joe,because a big part of the mission of

(22:18):
Farhof as education, as you bothknow, and I think you know especially
through the lens of music and howmusic has reflected our history and our culture
and our times, and I thinkyou both have nonprofits that are doing something
very similar to that. So well, you know, Michael, I think
the interesting thing is, and I'vehad this thought many times that Noel and

(22:38):
I we have different I'm basically asecular kind of guy and he's basically a
very focused, spiritual kind of guy. But we completely intersect and they are
in the same sense that we havethat in common and share that come up

(23:00):
with the same word love as kindof a central thematic piece of work.
We've come up with two different versionswith different embassies, with the same the
same impulse. This similarity makes meso it's so moving to me because it

(23:22):
really we have I think, akind of a friendship. That is,
it's hard to not feel extraordinarily gratefulfor not just a feeling, but a
way of life that we've shared witheach other and inspired each other to live.
I would be remiss if we concludedtoday without including Mary, because it

(23:45):
was Peter, Paul and Mary,and I'd love to hear both of your
reflections however you feel you'd want toabout Mary Well. Mary was living across
the street from me when I wasa pseudo folks singer at a comic and
a master's ceremonies at the Gaslight littlecoffee house that squared quite a few people.

(24:06):
She was inspirational to me, justin her capacity, her outreach and
the kindness that she should. Then. You know, that's not to say
that she wasn't a knockout singer ora beautiful broad you know she was.

(24:27):
She was I think the focus pointfor many folks who came to the concert,
but her she was not a dumbblonde, that is for sure.
She had a very sharp wit.She had a perception that was very clear,

(24:48):
and yeah, we miss her somefurious. We even sometimes joke about
it on stage because we get awayPeter and I get away with you know,
kidding each other on stage, takingup space that would say, Okay,
I'm get serious, let's get tothis. Yeah right. I think
of Mary, not in contrast toKnow, but in addition to what he

(25:08):
said, as a person with akind of a laser kind of capacity to
share laughter, tell the truth,say what was in her heart, Move
you or you, move you totears, get you angry, love you.

(25:30):
She was kind of one hundred andfifty percent of what most people are
in terms of the power of herpoint of view. She was one of
the brightest people I've ever known inmy life, for goodness sakes, and
not just in an academic way,but in that kind of strip away the

(25:51):
beloney and get right to what isgoing on. And she lived that on
stage. And I think we allhad a different languages for it, but
I think that of the three ofus, Mary had an undeniable just a

(26:14):
direct line that people picked up onand so they've cried with her, and
they laughed with her and empathize withher, and so she was charismatic.
Well, listen to Peter Yarrow.No, Paul Stookie, thank you so
much and thank you for your reflectionson mayor of Mary, because I think
that would be so appreciated because itwas. Peter, Paul and Mary,

(26:37):
thank you so much for being withus. Thanks for having us, Mike,
it was good to be here.Well that's all for this week.
I'm Mike Christian, inviting you tojoin us again next week on What's at
Risk. Also check out our podcastat Wbznewsradio dot iHeart dot com What's on

(26:57):
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