April 23, 2021 • 12 mins
Stephen Jones joins the 105.3 The Fan sharing his thoughts on the quality of players that should be available for the Dallas Cowboys at pick number 10 and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is the g Bag Nation here on one oh
five three of the Fan, and we are fortunate enough
now to be joined in the lead up to the
twenty twenty one NFL Draft by Stephen Jones here on
your home of the Cowboys, and a good afternoon, sir.
How are you good afternoon? Guys doing well? We are
having a fantastic time talking about this. How tough is
it for you guys to know for sure what your
(00:22):
contingencies and plan look like with the tenth overall pick
six days out. You know, we feel good about it.
I think we're getting a heartbeat. You're always going to
have surprises. I mean, that's that's without comes knowing that's
probably gonna happen at the end of the day. But
you know, the more you get your hands around everything,
(00:43):
you know, we just feel really good about where we
where we sit right now, and you know there's going
to be a really, really good football player sitting there
for us. Uh. You know, when we pick, we don't
have to have everything fall just right and know that
things are. I think things are really going to work
out for us and we're going to come away with
(01:03):
a quality, quality football player. Steven, I don't know how
many fans realize this, but I believe I'm right in
assuming that like you guys and other NFL teams, you
guys do mock drafts, don't you to kind of see
how this might look in different ways? We actually do.
It's just, uh, you know, it's interesting because you know,
(01:24):
our guys are well versed in this and they obviously,
you know, have visited with different teams around the league
about different things, and you know, not on the road
as much as we normally are, so there's not as
much conversation. But you know, it's really good to go
through those mock grafts and see what. You know, you
never know when they're going to come up with a
(01:46):
scenario and one of those mock drafts that's interesting and
you have to address it and you you know, see
what that might mean. Now, you know, at the end
of the day, we think we cover most of them,
but it is you know, I think productives, you know,
in our particular case, I think they're sure productive. To
go through the first round and up to our second
pick in the second round there, then I think that's productive. Okay,
(02:11):
So I asked that because last year when I would
do the stupid mock draft simulators. Anytime that Cede Lamb
made it to seventeen, I would just reboot the simulator
because I'd be like, guys, that's not going to happen,
and then it did. So when you guys were doing that,
how often did you think you would have to consider
a receiver? You know, I don't think that we had one.
(02:32):
So I guess our MOC grafts weren't doing well in
terms of showing his Lamb because all the ones we
did never had it getting CD Lamb, and so it
was real interesting when he fell all the way to us.
And you know, obviously sometimes our MOC grafts and more
jaded with how we rate the board versus how the
(02:53):
league might rate the boarder. And you know, every team
has different systems, different offensive systems, different detensive systems, and yeah,
can write players differently, so you you know, you never
know for sure how things are going to shake out,
and you know, then you get into the needs that
teams have, and you know what they're really uh, you know,
(03:13):
what they may think as a unique player, we may
think is a good player, and vice versa. And so
it's that's why it's good to have those mock grass
and sometimes you probably can't have enough of them. Okay,
So I asked all of those just to get to
this when you guys are running those have you seen
any scenarios where no tight end is picked in the
top nine picks? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean you
(03:36):
don't have to look very far, just uh you have
a we have a version of what we call the
Cliffs and that really you know, compiles all the media
that's about the cowboys that we get every day and ship.
You don't have to look very far and see mock
grass that uh you know, have no tight end getting
picked in the top nine picks. So certainly, uh you
(03:58):
know that that wouldn't be a if you off your
feat scenario in terms of, you know, a tight end
not being picked in the top nine picks, because we
believe there's you know, especially if you just say, hey,
there's five quarterbacks that could go in the top ten.
I think there's gonna be you know, there's fourteen, fifteen
(04:18):
players that are worthy of being picked in the top ten.
If you say all five quarterbacks are Stephen, one of
your great secret weapons is Jerry. Just get him on
the phone. He gets those general managers to tell him
who he's gonna they're gonna pick. That's all you have
to do. Just let him start making. I've never seen it.
I've never seen a general manager get other general managers
to make to admit who they were gonna pick. You
(04:42):
have it. Not many of them will do it, but
every now and then you get one who will speak
up for you. So uh, it's it's it's rare. But Jerry,
if anybody could get someone to drop drop their drop
their shield, if you will, and get them maybe every
now and then to say what might be on their mind.
But I'd say that's probably pretty rare. Bright. No, I'll
(05:03):
tell you what I know. You and I You and
I have seen it, but it's not often. Yeah, I
saw him do it with Carl Peterson and Frank Gill
him he had him on the phone. Each had him
on the phone, and then hey, you guys made the trade.
But Stephen, real quick, the how close and how difficult
has it been to have to evaluate with what you
have with Patrick Sartan and Jase Horne. I mean we're
(05:24):
talking like it could go either way. How has that
been in the war room for you guys, battling on
those two guys. Yeah, I mean, it's a obviously a
great debate. They're all, you know, they're top top top
players in the draft, and you know, they all, you know,
they have unique qualities. One has some that the other
(05:45):
doesn't have, and the other has some that the other
one might not have. So it's a you know, a
really unique debate. That debate goes on right now. I
can assure you there's been no no final decision on that.
But obviously, as you know, Brian, as we can get
into some very lengthy and long discussions and that'll obviously
(06:07):
probably only heat up and get even more intense as
you know, as we get into the first part of
next week, as you really start to roll up your
sleep stratgized and really get your board down to exactly
exactly how you want it. Talking draft here with Stephen Jones,
you know, talking about pitch. They're as good as he
is with you know, how Jerry's talked about him. Could
(06:29):
you see a scenario where he's on the board and
you still pass on him. Yeah, I'm not. I won't
get into that. That's just too much speculation for me.
You know, obviously, I said the other day. Uh, you know,
these tight end tight ends can be especially special. Ones
can be huge mismatches. And you know, you've seen New
(06:50):
England have a tremendous amount of success winning world championships
with it. Uh. Certainly, Kansas City's been dominant with uh
that's probably the best high in the league. And Kelsey
and even San Francisco with their tight end kettle. Really
I was a bit part of the reason, and they
made it to the Super Bowl a couple of years ago.
(07:10):
So now those guys are unique, and they certainly create
matchup issues. And certainly, uh, you know, Pitts is a
you know, a rare one, so you know he's a
great football player. Now, of course I haven't been here
trying to talk these uh you know, football lifers into
how fun it would be with four wide receivers, you know,
at premium assets and they look at me like I'm crazy, Steve,
(07:32):
Is there is there a law of diminishing return on
BPA at a certain position? Or could you stand in
there and fire again? Say that again? I'm sorry you
cut out. Is there a law when it comes to
BPA if you're stacked up at a at a position
like you know, we were talking about wide receiver and
another premium wide receiver would make it historic. Right, Is
(07:55):
there a law of diminishing return on BPA to you that, hey,
we just cannot do this one again or you know
where those players that good? I don't think so. I mean,
I just think when you you have those type of weapons.
Obviously you see Kansas City getting it done with you
know a lot of different weapons, and you know they're
(08:16):
they're explosive, and they're very difficult to match up with
and very difficult to uh, you know, to slow down. Well,
you know when they have a hot hand. Uh, you know,
they'll say, you know, the only thing to fibly slow
them a little is losing you know, los An offensive
line linemen, tackles, and even when you got great weapons
and a great quarterback, if you know, if you guy
(08:38):
didn't have time to throw it, then it creates issues.
And you know, obviously that was a big part of
our problem last year when we lost uh, you know,
three of our starters and you know then lost depth
to boot and uh, you know, it just creates issue
when you can't protect your quarterback and you can't and
it makes it difficult to run it as well, uh,
(08:59):
certainly a cad. Yeah, and you don't have that group
up front that you used to h it's not it's
a different look when you get the ball. How appealing
does that potentially make, um a couple of guys that
are maybe left tackles in college but could play guard
in the NFL if you have the right guy available
at tend there? Do you guys factor in Tyrant's health
(09:23):
and is else going to be back all the way
and consider kind of doubling down on the strength of
the team there. Well, I'll start with the fact that
we believed that both Tyran and Lyle and Zach are
going to come into this season as as good as
we've seen them in a long time. I mean, they're
they're healthy there, they're over their injuries, which feel very optimistic.
(09:48):
H you know what they can do and uh, you know,
it's a huge class that they've really kind amazing. Uh
you know, after they had their injuries, they rehab from them,
and we felt like, you know, they're they're ready to
roll and not only we're gonna have a great year
this year, but several years to come. So well that's
a huge plus. But at the end of the day. Obviously,
(10:10):
we had as much success as anyone taking up a
left tackle in college and make them an All Pro
guard in Zack Martin and certainly Connor Williams has done
a nice job for us. But certainly those left tackles
in college, you know, depending on their length and how
you feel about them, can move down in there and
do you know, become very special as a guard at
(10:33):
our level. Stephen, this might be an unfair question because
you're still working through your your board and stuff, but
are you noticing like a pocket of different positions where
there seems to be three, four or five guys stacked
in there in certain rounds? Is there a couple positions
that you can you can kind of talk to us
(10:53):
about that. Hey, Brian, I've seen these cornerbacks, these defensive ends,
offensive tackles as are something that you've you've kind of
noticed a little bit of a trend that you've seen
a bunch of quality pocket of players at Yeah, I
think there's some some spots that some years are better
than others, some years or worse than others. I will
say this, it seems like there's always a bunch of receivers.
(11:17):
You know, obviously with the college game where it's gone.
You know, they certainly are producing the receivers and you
get to see them do it, you know, time and
time again and they just, uh, you know, finished up
another round of going through receivers again, and boy, it's
makes your eyes blur at the end because there's you know,
(11:38):
there is a large quantity of receivers throughout the draft,
but you do get positions at times where you see, hey,
this is where we have some offensive lineman ranks, and
you know, we might have an opportunity there if we're
willing to be patient, maybe to pick someone up there
where there's quite a few guys that we have, you know,
ranked more you know, middle of the type draft that
(12:02):
might be a good fit for us. Stephen, thanks so
much for making time. We look forward to catching up
with you next week. Hey. Thanks, it's always a pleasure
to be on
It is the g Bag Nation here on one oh
five three of the Fan, and we are fortunate enough
now to be joined in the lead up to the
twenty twenty one NFL Draft by Stephen Jones here on
your home of the Cowboys, and a good afternoon, sir.
How are you good afternoon? Guys doing well? We are
having a fantastic time talking about this. How tough is
it for you guys to know for sure what your
(00:22):
contingencies and plan look like with the tenth overall pick
six days out. You know, we feel good about it.
I think we're getting a heartbeat. You're always going to
have surprises. I mean, that's that's without comes knowing that's
probably gonna happen at the end of the day. But
you know, the more you get your hands around everything,
(00:43):
you know, we just feel really good about where we
where we sit right now, and you know there's going
to be a really, really good football player sitting there
for us. Uh. You know, when we pick, we don't
have to have everything fall just right and know that
things are. I think things are really going to work
out for us and we're going to come away with
(01:03):
a quality, quality football player. Steven, I don't know how
many fans realize this, but I believe I'm right in
assuming that like you guys and other NFL teams, you
guys do mock drafts, don't you to kind of see
how this might look in different ways? We actually do.
It's just, uh, you know, it's interesting because you know,
(01:24):
our guys are well versed in this and they obviously,
you know, have visited with different teams around the league
about different things, and you know, not on the road
as much as we normally are, so there's not as
much conversation. But you know, it's really good to go
through those mock grafts and see what. You know, you
never know when they're going to come up with a
(01:46):
scenario and one of those mock drafts that's interesting and
you have to address it and you you know, see
what that might mean. Now, you know, at the end
of the day, we think we cover most of them,
but it is you know, I think productives, you know,
in our particular case, I think they're sure productive. To
go through the first round and up to our second
pick in the second round there, then I think that's productive. Okay,
(02:11):
So I asked that because last year when I would
do the stupid mock draft simulators. Anytime that Cede Lamb
made it to seventeen, I would just reboot the simulator
because I'd be like, guys, that's not going to happen,
and then it did. So when you guys were doing that,
how often did you think you would have to consider
a receiver? You know, I don't think that we had one.
(02:32):
So I guess our MOC grafts weren't doing well in
terms of showing his Lamb because all the ones we
did never had it getting CD Lamb, and so it
was real interesting when he fell all the way to us.
And you know, obviously sometimes our MOC grafts and more
jaded with how we rate the board versus how the
(02:53):
league might rate the boarder. And you know, every team
has different systems, different offensive systems, different detensive systems, and yeah,
can write players differently, so you you know, you never
know for sure how things are going to shake out,
and you know, then you get into the needs that
teams have, and you know what they're really uh, you know,
(03:13):
what they may think as a unique player, we may
think is a good player, and vice versa. And so
it's that's why it's good to have those mock grass
and sometimes you probably can't have enough of them. Okay,
So I asked all of those just to get to
this when you guys are running those have you seen
any scenarios where no tight end is picked in the
top nine picks? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean you
(03:36):
don't have to look very far, just uh you have
a we have a version of what we call the
Cliffs and that really you know, compiles all the media
that's about the cowboys that we get every day and ship.
You don't have to look very far and see mock
grass that uh you know, have no tight end getting
picked in the top nine picks. So certainly, uh you
(03:58):
know that that wouldn't be a if you off your
feat scenario in terms of, you know, a tight end
not being picked in the top nine picks, because we
believe there's you know, especially if you just say, hey,
there's five quarterbacks that could go in the top ten.
I think there's gonna be you know, there's fourteen, fifteen
(04:18):
players that are worthy of being picked in the top ten.
If you say all five quarterbacks are Stephen, one of
your great secret weapons is Jerry. Just get him on
the phone. He gets those general managers to tell him
who he's gonna they're gonna pick. That's all you have
to do. Just let him start making. I've never seen it.
I've never seen a general manager get other general managers
to make to admit who they were gonna pick. You
(04:42):
have it. Not many of them will do it, but
every now and then you get one who will speak
up for you. So uh, it's it's it's rare. But Jerry,
if anybody could get someone to drop drop their drop
their shield, if you will, and get them maybe every
now and then to say what might be on their mind.
But I'd say that's probably pretty rare. Bright. No, I'll
(05:03):
tell you what I know. You and I You and
I have seen it, but it's not often. Yeah, I
saw him do it with Carl Peterson and Frank Gill
him he had him on the phone. Each had him
on the phone, and then hey, you guys made the trade.
But Stephen, real quick, the how close and how difficult
has it been to have to evaluate with what you
have with Patrick Sartan and Jase Horne. I mean we're
(05:24):
talking like it could go either way. How has that
been in the war room for you guys, battling on
those two guys. Yeah, I mean, it's a obviously a
great debate. They're all, you know, they're top top top
players in the draft, and you know, they all, you know,
they have unique qualities. One has some that the other
(05:45):
doesn't have, and the other has some that the other
one might not have. So it's a you know, a
really unique debate. That debate goes on right now. I
can assure you there's been no no final decision on that.
But obviously, as you know, Brian, as we can get
into some very lengthy and long discussions and that'll obviously
(06:07):
probably only heat up and get even more intense as
you know, as we get into the first part of
next week, as you really start to roll up your
sleep stratgized and really get your board down to exactly
exactly how you want it. Talking draft here with Stephen Jones,
you know, talking about pitch. They're as good as he
is with you know, how Jerry's talked about him. Could
(06:29):
you see a scenario where he's on the board and
you still pass on him. Yeah, I'm not. I won't
get into that. That's just too much speculation for me.
You know, obviously, I said the other day. Uh, you know,
these tight end tight ends can be especially special. Ones
can be huge mismatches. And you know, you've seen New
(06:50):
England have a tremendous amount of success winning world championships
with it. Uh. Certainly, Kansas City's been dominant with uh
that's probably the best high in the league. And Kelsey
and even San Francisco with their tight end kettle. Really
I was a bit part of the reason, and they
made it to the Super Bowl a couple of years ago.
(07:10):
So now those guys are unique, and they certainly create
matchup issues. And certainly, uh, you know, Pitts is a
you know, a rare one, so you know he's a
great football player. Now, of course I haven't been here
trying to talk these uh you know, football lifers into
how fun it would be with four wide receivers, you know,
at premium assets and they look at me like I'm crazy, Steve,
(07:32):
Is there is there a law of diminishing return on
BPA at a certain position? Or could you stand in
there and fire again? Say that again? I'm sorry you
cut out. Is there a law when it comes to
BPA if you're stacked up at a at a position
like you know, we were talking about wide receiver and
another premium wide receiver would make it historic. Right, Is
(07:55):
there a law of diminishing return on BPA to you that, hey,
we just cannot do this one again or you know
where those players that good? I don't think so. I mean,
I just think when you you have those type of weapons.
Obviously you see Kansas City getting it done with you
know a lot of different weapons, and you know they're
(08:16):
they're explosive, and they're very difficult to match up with
and very difficult to uh, you know, to slow down. Well,
you know when they have a hot hand. Uh, you know,
they'll say, you know, the only thing to fibly slow
them a little is losing you know, los An offensive
line linemen, tackles, and even when you got great weapons
and a great quarterback, if you know, if you guy
(08:38):
didn't have time to throw it, then it creates issues.
And you know, obviously that was a big part of
our problem last year when we lost uh, you know,
three of our starters and you know then lost depth
to boot and uh, you know, it just creates issue
when you can't protect your quarterback and you can't and
it makes it difficult to run it as well, uh,
(08:59):
certainly a cad. Yeah, and you don't have that group
up front that you used to h it's not it's
a different look when you get the ball. How appealing
does that potentially make, um a couple of guys that
are maybe left tackles in college but could play guard
in the NFL if you have the right guy available
at tend there? Do you guys factor in Tyrant's health
(09:23):
and is else going to be back all the way
and consider kind of doubling down on the strength of
the team there. Well, I'll start with the fact that
we believed that both Tyran and Lyle and Zach are
going to come into this season as as good as
we've seen them in a long time. I mean, they're
they're healthy there, they're over their injuries, which feel very optimistic.
(09:48):
H you know what they can do and uh, you know,
it's a huge class that they've really kind amazing. Uh
you know, after they had their injuries, they rehab from them,
and we felt like, you know, they're they're ready to
roll and not only we're gonna have a great year
this year, but several years to come. So well that's
a huge plus. But at the end of the day. Obviously,
(10:10):
we had as much success as anyone taking up a
left tackle in college and make them an All Pro
guard in Zack Martin and certainly Connor Williams has done
a nice job for us. But certainly those left tackles
in college, you know, depending on their length and how
you feel about them, can move down in there and
do you know, become very special as a guard at
(10:33):
our level. Stephen, this might be an unfair question because
you're still working through your your board and stuff, but
are you noticing like a pocket of different positions where
there seems to be three, four or five guys stacked
in there in certain rounds? Is there a couple positions
that you can you can kind of talk to us
(10:53):
about that. Hey, Brian, I've seen these cornerbacks, these defensive ends,
offensive tackles as are something that you've you've kind of
noticed a little bit of a trend that you've seen
a bunch of quality pocket of players at Yeah, I
think there's some some spots that some years are better
than others, some years or worse than others. I will
say this, it seems like there's always a bunch of receivers.
(11:17):
You know, obviously with the college game where it's gone.
You know, they certainly are producing the receivers and you
get to see them do it, you know, time and
time again and they just, uh, you know, finished up
another round of going through receivers again, and boy, it's
makes your eyes blur at the end because there's you know,
(11:38):
there is a large quantity of receivers throughout the draft,
but you do get positions at times where you see, hey,
this is where we have some offensive lineman ranks, and
you know, we might have an opportunity there if we're
willing to be patient, maybe to pick someone up there
where there's quite a few guys that we have, you know,
ranked more you know, middle of the type draft that
(12:02):
might be a good fit for us. Stephen, thanks so
much for making time. We look forward to catching up
with you next week. Hey. Thanks, it's always a pleasure
to be on
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