January 28, 2025 • 49 mins
Jerry Cantrell has been the lead guitarist and songwriter for Alice in Chains since the band formed in 1987. By the mid ‘90s after a run of multi-platinum albums, Alice secured their spot as one of Seattle’s “big four” grunge bands along with Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Nirvana.
Legend has it that Alice In Chains’ early whirlwind of commercial success wreaked havoc on the personal and professional lives of the band. In 2002, lead singer Layne Staley overdosed and died after more than a decade of battling drug addiction.
Amidst the turmoil, Jerry Cantrell found solace in continuing to write and release music both as a solo artist and as a member of Alice In Chains. And he’s never stopped playing. In 2021, he released his critically acclaimed solo album, Brighten, followed by last year's hard rock opus, I Want Blood.
On today’s episode Leah Rose talks to Jerry Cantrell about how he's drawn to art that exists in the shadows. He also talks about how getting sober over 20 years ago has influenced his songwriting, and he remembers the time he tried to pass a demo tape to Axl Rose, only to see his security guard toss it in the trash.
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Jerry Cantrell HERE.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Jerry Cantrell has been the lead guitarist and songwriter for
Alison Chane since the band formed in nineteen eighty seven.
By the mid nineties, after a run of multi platinum albums,
Alice secured their spot as one of Seattle's Big four
grunge bands, along with Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Nirvana. Legend
has it that the band's early whirlwind of commercial success
wreaked havoc on the personal and professional lives of the band.
(00:43):
In two thousand and two, lead singer Lane stay overdosed
and died after more than a decade of battling drug addiction.
Admits the turmoil, Jerry Cantrell found solace in continuing to
write and release music, both as a solo artist and
as a member in Alison Shane's He's Never Stopped Playing.
In twenty twenty one, he released his critically acclaimed solo
album Brighton, followed by last year's hard rock opus I
(01:05):
Want Blood. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Jerry
cant about how he's drawn to the art that exists
in the Shadows. He also talks about how getting sober
over twenty years ago, as influenced to songwriting, and he
remembers the time he tried to pass the demo tape
to Axel Rose, only to see a security guard throw
it in the trash. This is broken record Liner notes
(01:28):
for the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I wanted to ask you a couple questions about the
new album I Want Blood. Yeah, it's your fourth full
length album, released back in October. I was curious, now
that the album is out and you've had a chance
to sort of like hear what people are saying about it,
is there anything that you've heard that surprised you, Like
(01:56):
anything people are picking up on or noticing.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I mean, I'm really I'm really digging that people are
connecting with it.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
That's that's always the It's always the first goal. You know,
you start off every every song or you know, or
a collection of songs or album, you're trying to kind
of satisfy an audience of one or or or five
the group of you, you know what I mean. So
it's really trying to make something that you guys are
excited about or I'm excited about. And uh, and so
(02:26):
that that box obviously obviously gets checked with its decision
to release because I wouldn't put something out that I
didn't think was good. Yes, so that the box for
me is checked. I was really I'm really satisfied with
and really excited about the songs and the energy, the performances,
the people that I got to create this music with.
(02:46):
And the thing that I guess I'm grateful for is
that people seem to feel like there's a see that
there's a lot of challenge to this the writing and
execution of the album, and and that makes me feel
good because I certainly felt like my face was pressed
against the ceiling of my abilities on all levels of
this album, you know, singing, writing, producing, you know, And
(03:08):
that's a good play us to be. You want to
be in a slightly uncomfortable, like hey, WHOA can I
pull this off? Kind of headspace because you you were
allowing yourself to grab stuff that you didn't know was attainable,
or reach a branch that you might not even be
be reaching for, you know what I mean, But like
you just feel like you're flailing about and some and
(03:28):
that's where you find some really cool stuff, you know,
instead of trying to be safe. And I've I've never
really gone about making music with that mindset. I'm not
trying to recreate old tunes or old records or or
rep myself. I'm trying to make something new that I
that I haven't made before, you know, and you can
always count on you can always count on sounding like yourself.
(03:49):
I can't really do anything else. And so that's that's
a that's a bonus, you know, to be able to
have that sort of a thing that's identifiable, I guess,
and that breeds you up to go where, but the
hell of music wants to take it. So it's uh,
it's as much a surprise to me every time I
end a project and put it out, because I had
no idea or intention of what it was going to
(04:11):
be before I started.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Do you ever give yourself props?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Like if you do get to a place where you're
pushing yourself creatively emotionally, do you take time to sort
of like congratulate yourself or you always sort of just
like have like this self critical voice in your head.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah. Well, I mean after I'm done working on a record,
I don't listen to it a whole lot. But since
starting up a new tour here in about a week,
I'm going through all the materials, so I've been revisiting it,
or you'll run into people and they'll kind of talk
to you about I don't know, maybe the impact that
it's having on them. That's something that they really dig
and so then then then you're brought back to that
(04:50):
that mind frame and that discussion, and that always feels good,
you know, like, yeah, made a good record, that that's
what you're trying to do, and and it's fun revisiting it.
It still holds up. I'm not sick of it yet,
so that's always a good sign too.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Has getting feedback from people from fans about the way
that certain songs have impacted them. Does that change the
way you talk to musicians about songs of theirs that
you love.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know, it's really personal what what an artist's music
means to me. You know, I'm sure there's gonna be
a lot of shared stuff what it means to them too,
But it's also going to be pretty personal to them.
And I might not know all the details, nor do
I need to know all the details. I just need
to know that it means something to me and the
particular story or slant that I took it ass you know,
(05:39):
and you know the few conversations I've had with with
writers about particular songs, And you know, I'll be hanging
with you know, Billy Gibbons or something a couple of
weeks ago, and I'll ask them about mechanic, you know,
like what the hell are you is on here? And
blah blah blah, and it sounds like a piano but
it's a guitar. And like, you know, I'll be wrong
a lot of the times, you know what I mean.
So like it's always it's always surprising to get somebody's
(06:01):
personal take on it. At the flip side of that coin,
it's also cool leaving the mystery there and leaving some
space for for the creation of your own story to it,
to connect to a piece of music or art or
film or whatever it is. You know, a play, a book.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
You know, I know that you and Duff mccagan are
good friends. You guys play music a lot together. You
guys hang out watch football the first time. Like when
you first started hanging out with Duff, what did you
ask him about Guns N' Roses?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Uh? Boy? I think I probably told him, Like when
I when I finally connected with this band, I mean
I was aware of the band, and a lot of
my favorite bands I don't like instantly, you know, yeah,
and so because they were so huge and blowing up.
I mean, I like, I like rock and roll, and
they had roots of all the stuff I love, Aerosmith
(06:56):
and you know, good funky R and B fucking nasty
rock and roll and uh so, you know, overtly, I
liked it and it was blowing up, but I didn't
connect with the record. And I think I listened to
it for about a week, and I don't know I
was I think I told him a story. I was
living in an apartment downtown behind the Seattle Center, and
I still hadn't connected to the record. So I decided
(07:17):
to drop acid and listen to the whole thing one
more time. And I decided on that trip, and I
listened to the record of I still didn't like it.
I was going to throw it out the window. And
by the time, by the time Rocket Queen came on
that base, the drums in the bass got me. That's
when it all came into focus. And I was just
coming on to an acid trip. And I think I
(07:37):
told him that story that was it was a good one,
and I got it the doors of perception when we're open. Yes,
and I connected because the thing that got me was
his base ref Yeah totally. You know.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Oh that's super cool.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Wasn't there a story that you were at like a
gun show and you gave a demo to Axel?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Oh? Yeah? Uh. Like all young artists, you know, sometimes
you run onto somebody that's one of your heroes and
you pass them on your demo tape or whatever. Yeah.
I was actually like, I say, I live right behind
the Seattle Center and that's where they were playing. So yeah,
I handed it to his security guard and his security
guard threw it away as they were walking. So it
(08:20):
was an Axles fault. Now. I told Axel that story too,
and we laughed about that as well.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So well, at least it wasn't him, It was a security.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Guard that was a security guard. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I was having this debate with someone who I work
on this show with, and I wonder what, I'm just
curious what your answer would be, who do you think
is the best American rock band?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Oh? Man, I'm all I'm still bad with best.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, I know, I know me too.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
It's an impossible statement, you know what I mean? You
want to be one of the best, you know, and
there's so many American American rock bands, just America. Yeah,
so you can throw out a couple.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I'm just curious where your brain goes.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Oh, I don't know. I mean, like, you know, Aerosmith's
got to be up there, pretty close to top of
the list, you know, GNR, Metallica, those are pretty good ones. Yeah, okay, yeah,
that's good. We were saying.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Also, he brought up Grateful Dead and the Beach Boys.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, I'd go with the Beats. I you know, I
appreciate the Dead, and I'm sure you've had this experience.
There's dead Heads, and then there's people that don't get
the Dead, and none one of the Beats never got
the Dead. I appreciate them as musicians and I respect
full respect for the connection they have with their fans,
but it just never really spoke to me. Beast Boys, Yeah,
(09:37):
for sure. You know, Beast Boys were early Beast Boys
is badass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Let me ask about a couple of the songs on
the new album.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
The opening track Vilified.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Can you just tell me the story about how that
came together and especially that I love the like little
the hey, yeah, the repeating bit. It's so catching and
it's so good and it's sort of like reminiscent of
some old Alice songs. I thought, so tell me about
writing and arrange that one.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, the music is, it's a it's a really bizarre
piece of music. And it's in like six and seven
and I think maybe maybe there goes a section that
goes to eight too, So it's weird time signatures. It's
just four and a half half minutes of fury. You know,
once it once it starts, it does not stop. And
I remember coming up with it in two sections, both
(10:32):
at a sound check once when I was on tour
with on the Brighton tour, you know, was I was
messing around with with the riff and we were the
band kind of jumped in with me and kind of
played it. And then and then on another sound check
with Alice or a rehearsal room or something, I brought
that up and I was like that that's a good
one to file for file future use, and it ended up,
(10:53):
you know, working out that it ended up on being
on that record. But it's it's just weird, but it's
also really kind of got a pop element. To it
as well. It's just a weird psycho metal pop song. Uh,
and it's got a lot of energy. And you know,
the last two records I've done Brighton and I Want Blood,
two things have happened for me, and I don't know
(11:15):
if it's going to continue. But it's odd because I
never know what the record is going to be called.
And tell way, like when everybody's like, what the hell
are you going to call this thing? So it's a
last thing that you normally come up with. And on
both of these records, I had the title right out
the bat, importantly because I had written Vilified and I
had also written bright and then I'm like, those are great,
you know, and those are great songs. It gives it's
(11:37):
a good title for the body of work. It seems
to be a good descriptor you know what I mean.
So that Villified was a contender, you know, for an
album titled. But I guess my point being, I knew
what I was going to call them. I knew what
the how the albums were going to open, and Vilified
was always the open opener and it comes the closer.
So I came in almost with eight out of nine
(11:59):
songs in the position that they're on. I had them
written out in order like how the album was going
to go, and it ended up being pretty close in
the mark on brighton and I want uh and uh vilified.
I mean, it's just, you know, there's I think that
we're living in a really interesting time, you know what
I mean. And I think that we're I think that
everybody's everybody's got an opinion, and is is a rush
(12:23):
to share it with everybody and at each other's throats
and pointing fingers and and uh, you know, we're dealing
with dealing it with a different time, with a new time,
with new toys and new technology, and and I don't
know that we've necessarily learned how to use all that
stuff mainly, Yeah, no, And maybe that song is just
kind of like a like pointing out that fact and
(12:44):
maybe being a call to you know, be a little
cooler with each other, be a little more accepting.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
And then how did you come up with that the
catchy bit?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
You know? It just it always starts with the music.
So generally it always starts with the music. I'll get
the music together. So I got those three parts, the
main riff and then the and then the the B
section with the dead you know, and then the then
the slow you know, slow stomp that comes after that.
So I'm like, this is a good song. And then
(13:13):
you get that together and it can happen really quickly
with sections, and while you're listening. I do a lot
of listening in my car old school, So yeah, I
listen to the demos that we've made or or sometimes
write off the battle just pop pop, a good vocal,
I'll have a vocal idea that will go through my head,
so I'll singing some nonsense, nonsense lyrics to get the
(13:34):
melody lined down until it works, you know, and then
the next one, what the fuck are you trying to
say with that melody? So that's usually that's the very
last thing the subject matter.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Are you conscious of when you hear a new song, like,
not a new song of yours, but somebody else's song, Like,
are you conscious of what part of the song you
pay attention to most, whether it's the lyrics or the
melody or you know, a certain instrument.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
There's so much freedom in music, you know. I mean basically,
if you look, if you're kind of break down songwriting
to structure, you know, you're talking about intro, a verse,
a bridge, a chorus, and maybe like a middle eight,
you know, so that that's the thing. But there's so
much ways, so many ways you can play with that
and sounds and and and what somebody is trying to
(14:21):
get across. And you know, I'm a big fan of film.
I still watch tons of movies, and you know, good movies,
crappy movies, doesn't matter, like I just like movies, and
music is a big part of film and the storytelling
of that. So so of course I'm always keyed into
the music aspect of telling a story. And that's really
what I'm trying to do is make a little mini
(14:43):
movie by writing a song, you know, like a little scene.
I want to be transported to some place that that
I've never been to, or or maybe be reminded of
a place that's familiar to me. Like, hey, that's kind
of cool, you know, like that brings me back to
this thing, and that's fucking cool. I like that, you know,
And it's a shared experience. But you know, there's there's
(15:04):
only twelve notes and and there's you know, basically, songs
are three parts, three or four parts, and you know
the math of it is is pretty simple, but but
it's so so intricate and unique and the way that
ever the lens of everybody, that all of that flows through,
those basic elements flow through it. And when somebody's able
to put those into like a song that makes you
feel and takes you on a ride or makes you
(15:26):
want to play it again, like call somebody and go like, man,
have you heard this? Man? You know that that that
that's cool? Man? You want to be part of that story?
And I think that's I think that's what we're all
trying to do.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Can you remember the last song that you were super
moved by that maybe you shared with someone else or
you couldn't stop listening to.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I mean, I'm in I'm in me mode right now. Yeah,
So I haven't really you know, I haven't really listened
to a whole lot of stuff. But I was watching
I was watching The Accountant last night, and there's like
a really cool I Forget the This with Ben Affleck.
He's like some like a autistic hit man kind of dude.
(16:08):
And oh wow, but there's a song in that soundtrack
and I can't remember off the top of my head
what it was. And also up in the air I
might be in a R bock tune. It's fucking cool
as shit. I really like. I like the Black Keys
a lot. They're they're really talented. And then watching the
Agency and it's it's got that great Jack White song
in it too. He's pretty fucking badass as well.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yeah, he is badass.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I think I heard you in another interview talking about
an album he did where there was like an EP,
like hidden in the album.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, inside the grooves of the album another it there's
an album groove, and then inside the album of that
groove is an EP. That's so cool. I've never heard
of anything like that. That's like how that dude's brain works.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Is there any other genre of music outside of rock
that you are fanatic about or that you just know
a lot about.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I just like good music, man. I don't care about
the style, man, I like I like Who's I like
R and B, I like even I even like some
hip hop, you know, I like soul, o the country,
like jazz, like metal, you know. I mean, yeah, I
like classical. You know, some classical ship. It's just fucking amazing,
you know what I mean, It's still great and what
(17:25):
you know it it's it's such a personal music is
such a personal thing, like what what connects? I'm not
like hunting for stuff. I'm only hunting when I'm trying
to make something myself. You know. It's just like the
rest of life is just you know, lucky happenstance. When
when you turn on the radio, or you see something
in a movie, or you or you go to a
show and or you're playing a bill at a at
(17:47):
a festival and a band comes on and kickshaw that
you don't know about, Like holy shit. I mean, that's
that's the cool part. Somebody's there's a lot of us
out there still doing it, and that gives me a
qlope the reason why I do it in the first place.
You know, it's not supposed to speak to everybody, but
it's it finds its people, you know. I mean, each
each band, each each song, each piece of music someone somewhere.
(18:10):
It's kind of eternal in a respect, at least longer
than a lifetime. I don't know if it's like yes,
all time eternal, but once it's out there, it's there
for people to find, you know, throughout the generations. And
I think that's that's a pretty magical thing, and that
aspect has never been lost on me. And so like
anytime I hear something that that makes me feel or
(18:30):
or like fuck, that's cool man, you know that that's
a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
We'll be right back with more from Jerry Cantrell. After
the break, We're back with more from Jerry Cantrell.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Do you have any tricks that help you unlock.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You know, if you're having like writer's block, or you
don't know where to go with a song, if a
part is missing. Do you have any things that you
can sort of like trick yourself into coming up with ideas?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Uh, well, there's a there's a couple of ways you
can go about it. Well, one one is leave it alone,
walk away from it, you know, until if you just
keep banging your head against it and it ain't happened
and you can't fucking force it, you know what I mean.
But you still you can take a temps at it
now and again when you when you like funk, that's
cool man, It's but but if it ain't happening, leave
(19:21):
it alone, move on to something else, you know, to
go to somebody else, you know, go to go to Sean,
go to Duff, go to Tyler go to Big or
Max like like, yeah, what do you think about this? Man?
I like, I don't have an idea here, like and
and and bounce your bounce that off of people that
(19:41):
you trusty creative people, and and that can that that
that's a good way to to jostle you. If it's
not the part, it might be something to challenge you
of like I can do better than that, you know
what I mean? So whatever, something to shift you off
of the dead space if you happen to find yourself
on and then the third way is just to keep grinding,
(20:02):
Just to keep grinding at it, you know what I mean.
Lyrics for me are that that way. I always get
block up on that stuff. The longest part of the
processes is the lyric writing. A lot of the time
on this record, I was blocked on throw me a line.
I had a really great opening chapter for the story,
and I had it set pretty good, and I had
(20:24):
had a good intro, I had a good, good verse
written down and in a B section, and then it
came to the second version, I got completely blocked and
I could I was blocked for a bit, and I
went to a went and saw a film by Scorsese
Killers of the Flower Moon has nothing to do with
the song, but a couple of scenes in that movie
(20:47):
knocked me out of something visually, and then I was
able to kind of continue the thread with that, kind
of like the fire scene in the middle of that
movie where they're kind of torching the fields and stuff like, Okay,
I got it. So it's you know, go to another artist,
you know, go to another artist, go to another medium
you know that can that can knock you out of
out of your out of your staleness and give you
a fresh perspective.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
You know, do you have to like take a voice
note right as you're watching it?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
So I do I talk it right into my phone,
or if I hear something, I sing it, or if
I play something, I record it immediately. As one another
thing learned about the process, I've lost not a ton,
not a ton because I've learned this lesson early on
of like I'll remember that and then oh, right, what
the tuck was that? You know what I mean? So
(21:32):
I've always been a big recorder and a big documentary
I call it riff mining, and so I make sure
when I find a nugget, to make sure to make
a record of it, you know what I mean. Yeah,
you can always come back to it and refer to it,
you know, and an form that it actually exists, you know,
to be able to refer to.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
So yes, And then historically, how has it been for you?
Have you had success writing lyrics or writing music or
arranging anything with like drinking or like you know, some
people can only write if they smoke some pot or
whatever it is, Like, how has that been for you?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Well, I've done it both ways, and I've written some
really good songs both ways. So I think both both
ways work. You know, I've lived through a period of
my life where it worked and then it didn't work. Yeah,
so I try to try, which relates exactly to what
we were just talking about with the block. If something's
not working for me or you got to find a
(22:30):
new way to do it, so you know, and that
I went through that change personally about twenty one years ago.
And you know, I think I'm still still writing as
impactful to me anyway, impactful weird, fucked up music like
I made when I fucked up. So I don't really
think that that's a requirement. It is part of the
(22:53):
mythos of being a musician and an art I think
everybody kind of asked to go through that period. I know,
I knew that was attractive and appealing to me, even
with all of the yeah, even with all of the
signposts of early deaths and not working out for people like, hey,
that's not going to happen to me. You know, I'm
sure they thought that too, right, you know what I mean.
(23:16):
So I don't denigrate it. I don't put it down.
I've been sober for twenty one years and I still
wouldn't be able to get fucked up, you know what
I mean? Because it is fun. It's fun getting outside.
It's totally trippy hanging out with weird people, you know,
just different scenarios, different different frames of mind that being
high and getting fucked up can can put you in.
(23:37):
So I'm not going to put it down because I
did it, and I and I did a lot of
good stuff, but you know, at some point it stopped
working for me. Luckily, I knew a lot of people
that did what I that I did, referring to some
of the guys in the the sort of playing with
right after I got sober, Billy Morrison, Tomorrow, Matt's Arm
Billy duppy, you know, the guys who'd been through through
(23:58):
what I through partying and then gone through the other
side of like, Okay, this doesn't work anymore. I got
to figure a new way to out to do this. Yeah,
all those guys still rock as far as I've last checked,
and I think I'm doing okay too as far as the
music element. So you can. You can do it either way.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You know, was there a time in your life where
you thought drug use was glamorous?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh? I don't know. I mean, it's just like I say,
it's part of the part of the mythos and you're
you're a young kid, so you're gonna you're gonna do
all this stuff that young kids do. I'm not a
young kid anymore. So I can't do what young kids do.
It would fucking kill me. So I gotta do. Uh
this version of me, which which I like very much.
I I like life. I like the consistency of life now,
(24:40):
Like the ceilings are not as high, okay, but the
floors are not as low either, so you know, I
mean it's a little bit more even, and uh, I
like that consistency.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So yeah, have you always been drawn two dark things?
Like you said, like you can write equally as fucked
up things now as you know back when.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
But have you always been drawn to sort of like
the dark arts.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, like horror movies, books like how far does It go?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah? I think it goes really deep. I mean I
was a huge horror fan. I mean, Stephen King is
one of my all time favorite authors. I like material
that has weight, that's dark, that has impact that shocks.
You know. I love party music too, man, I just
don't write it, you know what I mean. It doesn't
connect to me as something I want to recreate. There's
other artists and other bands that do it and do
(25:30):
it well, and I enjoy it. I love that shit, man.
But I agree with you that, you know, I'm kind
of drawn to things a little bit more in the shadows,
and also something that's going to give you a good
left turn or a good shock or a good punch
to the face, or maybe confronting some things that are
some things and emotions and situations that aren't easy to
talk about. You know. I'm into music, you know, so
(25:54):
I think that that's one of the aspects of music
that is so appealing to us weird little monkeys. You know,
it's it's a way for us to share things with
each other without actually ever you know, even if we
have never met or you know what I mean, we
can can still understand each other and communicate with each
other and share stuff. And it makes the tough stuff easier,
(26:15):
you know, because it's because it's shared. It also makes
the good stuff even that much more fucking celebratory because
you know, we're all feeling that way. So I think
that that's a pretty apt descriptor do you.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Remember as a kid when you started realizing that you
were into dark stuff or when that started to when
that just started overall?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I don't know when it started, you know dark to me,
I don't know, it's I don't know that there's like
a lot of connotations of that that that I would
take exception to, Like, so like what dark? So it's
it's just a it's a bummer, it's evil. I think
the word for me that better is weight, something that's
got substantial you know, like a big, greasy, bleeding cheeseburger,
(27:01):
you know, you know what I mean? So uh Bord
and I just we always talk about making big, greasy,
bloody cheeseburgers. We're fitting drub cheeseburgers. But what that is,
that's the type of work we want to make. You know,
it's a sloppy, fucking mess, and it should have some
fucking on it. There's no reason it may not be
(27:21):
nutritionally fucking the great for you, but it's just fucking primal,
you know. So I've always been drawn to films, books,
music like that, even classical type stuff when I was
in school, So I guess that's the music. I tried
to make my own version of it.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
I saw someone refer to to you and laying your
harmonies as the Devil's Everly Brothers.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, well I always liked that one. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Do you remember the first time you guys sang together
and what you realize like, was it like a revelation
or did it sort of take some time to become
what it was?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I mean, it always takes time in retrospect, it wasn't
that much time. I mean we formed at the end
of eighty seven, and we so basically basically eighty eight
was where you know, we started actually, you know, playing
gigs and stuff like that. We'd played our first gig
at Caine Hall at the University of Washington in I
think December of eighty seven, so, and we put our
(28:22):
first record out in ninety you know, FACELIOFS. So it
wasn't really that long, but you know, we would just
spend a lot of time jamming and you know, living together,
like either in the rehearsal place or we had a
band house, and you know, we were coming up with
ideas and jam and stuff. And you know, I think
Laine was a big fan of you know, harmony and
different voices, you know, in the band. It was his
(28:43):
actually suggestion that I actually sing more, you know, starting
from sap onward. You know, I started singing more and
more at his suggestion, and I was completely happy just
singing some singing backups and writing songs because we had him,
you know, so but he was like that, you know,
you should you should sing these two and you know,
the Beatles is probably the best reference. There are many
(29:06):
bands that come after the Beatles that are this blue
print where there's more than one lead singer, more than
one writer, more than one lead voice. And I've always
been a fan of bands like that, and so it
was really cool to be able to develop into a
band that kind of had that. Those Hallwarks you know,
the either Lane could lead or I could lead, or
(29:28):
when we sang together, you know, we created something bigger
than the both of us, you know, and so like
one plus one equals three, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, when you meet super fans, when you meet Alice
and Jane super fans, what are they usually curious about?
Speaker 4 (29:41):
What do they ask you about?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
What are they ask me about? I mean all sorts
of stuff. It's cool, man, Like, you know, it's amazing
that to have people that have connected to the work
that you've been a part of, you know. So so
you know this musical stuff, personal stuff, you know, stuff
from the past. You know what's going on now. You know,
generally everybody wants a picture. Yeah, sometimes that's an opportune
(30:08):
time for me. So I always I always want to
send somebody away with at least a hello, a handshake,
and a guitar pick.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
So I always have a yeah I saw somebody on
Reddit who got a guitar pick.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I usually have a big pocket full of guitar picks.
So so I've got something to give somebody. But you know,
it's usually just a quick hello, how you do? And
my head that that was cool? You know me.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yea early on in the band.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
How would you describe everyone in the band, like what
their individual expertise was.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, I mean, I think I think all bands have
a particular alchemy, and I think I think that a
lot of the I think a lot of the things
of why things work and what those elements are are
kind of hard to define, but they're completely necessary. You know,
you need Ringo, you need you need George Harrison, you
need Cartney, you need Lenin to make the Beatles. And
(31:02):
you can say that about any band, including ours, Mike,
Me and Sean. So all elements are acquired. Uh, you
have a shared vision. I guess that you develop because
you're a bunch of young guys and you're kind of
excited about making music together, and at some point you decide, hey,
I like hanging out with you, you know, why don't
(31:23):
we Why don't we try to make a band? You know?
And it works? You know. And I think also that
you know, there may be certain like roles I guess
that each guy plays or whatever that are yeah, or
maybe clearly defined, but but I think they're all roles
that we all trade off to each other at different times,
you know, So you know, maybe somebody is the main songwriter.
(31:46):
Now maybe maybe that changes later, or maybe somebody handles
the business aspect of it, or maybe that changes later
to somebody else, Like it's you. Yeah, you have a
shared experience and you're all learning things and going about
things and together. So it's stuff you all share. So
we everybody can play any position on the field that
(32:07):
need to, including the one that they play in the band,
you know, whether the bass player, the drummer, or the
guitar player.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Very cool, Okay, So I wanted to ask you about
a couple of individual songs.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
First is Damn That River. Do you remember how that
came about?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Do you remember any of the sessions or anything really
from you know, writing that song, arranging that song?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Oh boy, I mean I don't know. It's it's been
a few years. Yeah, Damn that I was just a
really aggressive riff, you know, and a lot of energy
to that. Good tunes, good riff.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Yeah totally.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Do you find like, do you trust your memory at
this point? Like I know that you have to. When
people interview you, they ask often about things that happened,
you know, as early as eighty seven. Now, do you
trust that the stories happened as you remember?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Them.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
I just no memory can be a funny thing and sometimes.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, well, you know, there's there's a couple of elements here,
you know, like like one, do you want to talk
about it too? You might not want to let somebody
know all that all there is to know at any
given moment, right Two. Uh, yeah, it's a lot of
years past. But you know, you also have the collective
memory of all of you together, so that helps if
there's fucking lapses, you know what I mean. So I'm
(33:31):
focused on what I'm doing right now.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
So yeah, yeah, can you tell me a little bit
about Afterglow? That's another track that really stood out to
me on the new album. How did that one come
to be?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
You know, I did most of the demoing and writing
here at my house, and you know, I've got a
pretty minimal setup. It's not like a grand studio thing.
It's just you know, pro tools type stuff, and you know,
I got a little electronic drum kit and some headphones
that we can all jam on and so we don't
piss the neighbors off, you know what I mean. So yeah,
but it's cool, you know, just like it's like old
school shity living room jamsh you know, a converted bedroom
(34:07):
to write in, and I got a little converted bedroom
studio upstairs, and then the living rooms turned into a
jam room. And the process for me is pretty similar,
you know, It's pretty tried and true, so I stick
with it. It's it's about I don't know what what
flips the switch in my head. I don't write all
the time, and I think it's important. It takes months,
(34:28):
you know, sometimes even years before I make another think
about making another record, you know what I mean, or
or writing another song, you know. And once when I'm
in the the headspace of touring, which I am right now,
I will write a lot less, you know. And when
that all wraps up, then at some point it'll go
on and that that switch will get flipped and it'll
(34:48):
be it's time to time to go again. And so
I'll call up Max or my good buddy Paul Figueroa,
who has been my demo and engineer partner for the
last four four records. This year was Maxwell Yurowski, really
talented dude, and it'll just be me and me and
them in a room just sketching shit out, mess and
messing around with stuff, and then call and a few
(35:09):
people few friends to jam them out in the in
the room to to uh to test them, test the theory,
see how it feels in a live context, and then
also get ideas and go back into the writing process.
But it's usually once it starts, it's about three four
months of demoing, and then it's a month or two
of like pre production with like who you're going to
make the record with and who's gonna record it for you,
(35:32):
and then you go onto the record and that's another
you know, three to six months, and so it's it's
about a year process of making a record from wow,
from scratch to end, and then it and then the
touring cycle starts. And then that when you were from
a year to year and a half, so you're looking
at a two and a half to three year cycle
and you got to you got to be willing to
take that whole ride, leave anything on the field, and
(35:54):
you can't. You can't wo's out once it starts, it's
like when you've got to commit to that. And so
going back to the beginning of that, that's why I
take time off, you know, I think time off totally
it's important so that you can recharge, you can kind
of clear the decks of ideas, the halls are empty
and get quiet again for new ideas to come in
(36:14):
and start collecting again. So yeah, but you were asking
me about Afterglow. I thought that was a cornerstone song.
I think there's a handful of really cornerstone songs to
each album and vilify it and and Afterglow are both those.
And I got to work with one of my one
of my favorite filmmakers and video artists, Matt Maherne, and
he made a great video for it as well. But yeah,
(36:37):
it's a really lush landscape and it's got the got
the cool keys and the strings kind of you know,
all of my love Led Zeppelin kind of vibe to
a little bit of that kind of bottom roll to it,
and some John Paul Jones keyboards and shit. And it's
an important song and I think that's gonna where That's
going to be the next single here.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
So what do you see, if Eddie, the difference between
Brighton and I Want Blood. I've seen that, you know,
people describing I Want Blood as having more teeth and
just being harder, generally more aggressive and brightened, being a
little bit more like mild tempo acoustic bass songs.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
How do you see the difference in what, like.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Where were you at in your life personally when those
albums were coming together.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Well, they're three years apart, so that's a lot of
life and yeah, always going to be in a different
a much different place with that much time that's passed.
So then that's the cool thing about about living a life,
about living a musical, creative life. You know, you're always
standing somewhere new, you know what I mean. The world
(37:45):
is going through something that hasn't gone through before. The
you know, events, you know, things happen, your relationships change.
I mean, for me, it's a different kid. You know,
it's a kid born three years after the last one,
so you should be able to see the lineage. Yeah,
that's his kid. But yeah, so it's the baby right
now and it might be a little more really and
(38:07):
a little bit more of a troublemaker than the last.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
On Brighton, I want to ask you about the song
A Tone. How did that one come to be?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, that's a that's a really interesting Uh, it's a
really interesting story on the tone. I had that riff
and I had two parts of a three part song,
but I only had the two and so that's why
it never became a song, So cycling through my head
for almost two decades. So then I knew it was
really good, but I also knew it needed a it
(38:45):
needed a third part, so that breakdown section in the
middle and also the outro stomp Tyler Bates contribution to
that that particular song. H those two new things came
into existence and allowed it to be finally a song.
Ideas or ideas, you know, like, you know, not every
script gets made, you know, but it's cool to keep it,
(39:06):
you know what I mean? And and like maybe maybe
like parts of parts of things can be frankenstein into
something else later on and become a full fledged song
on its own. And a Tone was one of those.
It's great and I like philified. I thought it was
the perfect gopiner.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
After this last quick break, we'll be back with the
rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Jerry Cantrell. Here's the
rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Jerry Cantrell.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Is there anything else about the new album or anything
about the tour that you want to talk about specifically?
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, Well, this year is it's going to be interesting
because you know, I am a member of Alis in Chains,
and so you know, that's kind of my first and
foremost love and has been my commitment. I don't get
the opportunity to do these very often records outside of
the band. I guess that's why I'm a little more
wanting to focus on this right now. It's because it
doesn't happen very often. I've done these two records within
(40:07):
a three year period, andlast time I did that, I
did another two records within a three year period nineteen
to twenty years ago. Hopefully one other twenty years before
I get to do a couple more. But if that's
the case, that's fine, because I'll be making music with
Alice like I have been doing all along. So so
this year is fun because I get to I get
(40:27):
to do some touring with Alice and also do some
touring on a record that I made for myself and
with my creative partners outside the band.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
So how are you with touring? Do you enjoy it
at this point?
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Oh? Yeah, I mean that's the best part, you know,
The best part is standing in front of people and
playing this stuff and having it back to it and
getting that instant you know, connection. It's always surprising, you know,
to me, it still is. You know, there's that I
think you know, we're all human and so you know,
there's always that voice in the back of your head
(41:03):
like you know, one of these days they're going to
figure out you're a fucking fraud. And that right, you know,
that's that's that's a good voice because it drives you
to prove, to achieve, to be better, to work hard.
And the payoff is when you're standing on a stage
and you're and you've gone through all that process and
mental mumbo jumbo with yourself and and you come out
(41:25):
the other side with a batch of tunes and stand
on a stage and play I've made connections, you know,
and written some pretty good songs over the last uh,
you know, three four decades that people want to you know,
react to. So to play them stuff along with that
old the older tunes and have them react in the
same way, it gives you chills. I was in the
Buenos Ais uh in particular. Uh, it's really trippy there.
(41:48):
They like sing the guitar solos as well as the
I mean, the whole thing, like you know it's going
to happen, but but like even the little little riffs
like on on Afterglow they start singing that ship and
it's like so cool. It takes you by It takes
me by surprise, and like I can kind I've expected
(42:09):
because I know the audience is going to do that,
but when it actually happens and it hits you and
this thing just came out like a week ago, you know,
it's it's a really powerful moment, you know.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
So when is the ideal time would you say to
see a band, like at what point during the tour
in the beginning, middle, or end.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I think any times really good. I mean, you know,
if there's a band that you want to see and
you're you happen to be at the first aid on
the tour, you can't really do anything exactly unless you
want to travel. Sometimes it's cool, man, when it's raw
and loose, you know, and that that really is rock
and roll. Rock and roll is the threat that the
(42:46):
train could come off the rails at any moment. Yes,
And I think I even reference that in a in
a song and off the rails, so like there's always
two wheels off the rails. Man, it's always threatening, you know,
to come off, to come off and it doesn't somehow,
and and and it's always fun live when shit gets
a little squirrely, like can they bring it back? You know?
(43:07):
Can you can you save? Yeah, because it's it's live performance,
and and that's kind of the beauty of it. You know,
some of the early gigs can be fun because there's
they're kind of a little looser and raw. And then
you know, but it's also kind of cool seeing middle
tour gigs who were where you're kind of greasy and
and in the groove, and you know, at toward toward
(43:28):
the end of the tour sometimes you know you could
be dealing with elements like where or somebody could be
you know, you could be sick. That always sucks. The
worst thing. You can be sick and feel like shit
and play a gig doing any other position in the band,
but trying to sing when you have an o blaces.
Fucking that's that sucks. And I've done it many times
and I will unless I absolutely can't utter a word
(43:52):
or I've got a fucking ivy in my arm and
I'm in a bed, which has only happened once or
twice in my career. I'm going to be up there
until I fall over, wow, because they paid money and
bought tickets, and they made plans and they got hotel rooms,
and if I can make it happen, I'm try to
do it. And so that all goes in with what
we were talking about with the live element. Once it starts,
(44:14):
you can't stop it, you know what I mean, unless
it's catastrophic, you know, And and those happened very rarely, thankfully.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
So have you ever had any like major malfunctions happened
during a show where like sound goes out or all
the time?
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Yeah, all the time. I think one of the most
epic ones was I think it was the show we
got signed on. We were playing at some I think
it was a drag strip, some sort of raceway and
Spokane or something. We were opening for Tesla, Great White
and somebody else, and we had like a I don't know,
(44:49):
we had like twenty minutes to open. We were were
the first band. We had twenty minutes, and the PA
wasn't on for so we basically played like four songs,
four or five songs, and the PA wasn't even on
for about half of them. Oh, and everybody in the
audience is like, can't hear you, we can't hear you.
(45:11):
And we got off and we were so pissed off
and we thought we blew our big break. But the
guys from Nick Turzo and Ron I think his name was,
but they're like, now, you guys, dealt with it. Dealt
with it fine. And the two songs that were through
the PA were killed some we're going to sign anyway,
So another gig and I want to say it was
(45:31):
maybe Finland or something, and the PA went out for
about forty five minutes and like my god, basically we
just stopped the show. We went and went down to
the barricade and kind of let everybody know because they
couldn't hear us through the mic. So we went down
and said, hey, the power is off. We're going to
stay here till the power comes back on, if that's
okay with you, and we just kind of hung out
talk with the crowd until the power came back on
(45:53):
and then we finished our set.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah yeah, I heard you had food poisoning during the
Alison Chains unplug show.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Oh yeah, I was not feeling well. Yeah, And if
you look very closely, there's a trash can at my
feet for me to vomit in but luck when the
when the light went green and the cameras went on
and we started playing, I got a little adrenaline rush
and I started. Yeah. So that turned out to be
one of the greatest shows we've ever played, you know.
(46:21):
So yeah, but I was feeling like fucking shit until
it started, and then soon as the show was over,
I went back to feeling like shit and back on
the IV. So I was sick and sick as a dog. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yeah, I was watching it last night and I saw
I think it was during Rooster. You were kind of
like laughing doing something. I was like, oh, he looks
he looks happy.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Actually, yeah, yeah, that's just part of the deal man. Cool.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Is there anything else you want to talk about with
the new album, any other new projects, any movie projects
coming up?
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Uh, you know, I'm always open to that. I would
love to do a song with Tyler for a movie.
We wrote a song called A Job to Do for
the second John Wick installment and that was really fun.
You know, I want blood the people that I that
I had made the record with, you know, Gil Sharon
and Mike than on drums. You know, it's it's my
(47:12):
second record with both of those guys. Robert Trujillo. It's
my second record with Degradation Trip and this one Duff
and I. I think I've done three or four records together,
a couple of his, couple of Greg Proshato. That's it's
our it's our second record together. Being in a band
is hanging out with your friends, just like it always was,
(47:33):
you know, like you get together in a basement, in
a garage, in a living room and you rock out
and try to figure out this thing called rock and roll,
share it and try to create your own version of it.
And so in Alice, we're a family, and first and
foremost we're friends. And so if I'm making music outside
the band, I still go by that template. I call
it my friend. So that's why all these these fine
(47:55):
folks are on the record. Also, you know, it's not
lost on me that I'm pretty lucky to be able
to call these guys up who all have pretty amazing
bands and pretty full time jobs with their bands, and
catch him in windows when when we're able to make
some music together, it's just it's just lined up that way,
and uh, and we make we make some pretty good
(48:17):
noise together. So I'm glad, everybody said yes when I called.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, it sounds like so much fun.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
It is it should be.
Speaker 4 (48:25):
Thank you so much, Jerry, appreciate you. I appreciate your
time and have fun on tour.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Okay, thanks Leah.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Thanks so much to Jerry Cantreell for coming on to
talk about his new project I Want Blood and His
Days and Alison Chains to hear some of our favorite
Jerry Cantroyl and Alison Chans songs. Check out the playlist
and episode notes or on our website at broken Record
podcast dot com, and be sure to follow us on
Instagram at the Broken Record pot. You can follow us
on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and
(48:57):
edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler
and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolat.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Broken Record is a.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and
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(49:25):
us on your podcast aff Our theme music's by Kenny Beats.
I'm Justin Richmond,
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Jerry Cantrell has been the lead guitarist and songwriter for
Alison Chane since the band formed in nineteen eighty seven.
By the mid nineties, after a run of multi platinum albums,
Alice secured their spot as one of Seattle's Big four
grunge bands, along with Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Nirvana. Legend
has it that the band's early whirlwind of commercial success
wreaked havoc on the personal and professional lives of the band.
(00:43):
In two thousand and two, lead singer Lane stay overdosed
and died after more than a decade of battling drug addiction.
Admits the turmoil, Jerry Cantrell found solace in continuing to
write and release music, both as a solo artist and
as a member in Alison Shane's He's Never Stopped Playing.
In twenty twenty one, he released his critically acclaimed solo
album Brighton, followed by last year's hard rock opus I
(01:05):
Want Blood. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Jerry
cant about how he's drawn to the art that exists
in the Shadows. He also talks about how getting sober
over twenty years ago, as influenced to songwriting, and he
remembers the time he tried to pass the demo tape
to Axel Rose, only to see a security guard throw
it in the trash. This is broken record Liner notes
(01:28):
for the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I wanted to ask you a couple questions about the
new album I Want Blood. Yeah, it's your fourth full
length album, released back in October. I was curious, now
that the album is out and you've had a chance
to sort of like hear what people are saying about it,
is there anything that you've heard that surprised you, Like
(01:56):
anything people are picking up on or noticing.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I mean, I'm really I'm really digging that people are
connecting with it.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
That's that's always the It's always the first goal. You know,
you start off every every song or you know, or
a collection of songs or album, you're trying to kind
of satisfy an audience of one or or or five
the group of you, you know what I mean. So
it's really trying to make something that you guys are
excited about or I'm excited about. And uh, and so
(02:26):
that that box obviously obviously gets checked with its decision
to release because I wouldn't put something out that I
didn't think was good. Yes, so that the box for
me is checked. I was really I'm really satisfied with
and really excited about the songs and the energy, the performances,
the people that I got to create this music with.
(02:46):
And the thing that I guess I'm grateful for is
that people seem to feel like there's a see that
there's a lot of challenge to this the writing and
execution of the album, and and that makes me feel
good because I certainly felt like my face was pressed
against the ceiling of my abilities on all levels of
this album, you know, singing, writing, producing, you know, And
(03:08):
that's a good play us to be. You want to
be in a slightly uncomfortable, like hey, WHOA can I
pull this off? Kind of headspace because you you were
allowing yourself to grab stuff that you didn't know was attainable,
or reach a branch that you might not even be
be reaching for, you know what I mean, But like
you just feel like you're flailing about and some and
(03:28):
that's where you find some really cool stuff, you know,
instead of trying to be safe. And I've I've never
really gone about making music with that mindset. I'm not
trying to recreate old tunes or old records or or
rep myself. I'm trying to make something new that I
that I haven't made before, you know, and you can
always count on you can always count on sounding like yourself.
(03:49):
I can't really do anything else. And so that's that's
a that's a bonus, you know, to be able to
have that sort of a thing that's identifiable, I guess,
and that breeds you up to go where, but the
hell of music wants to take it. So it's uh,
it's as much a surprise to me every time I
end a project and put it out, because I had
no idea or intention of what it was going to
(04:11):
be before I started.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Do you ever give yourself props?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Like if you do get to a place where you're
pushing yourself creatively emotionally, do you take time to sort
of like congratulate yourself or you always sort of just
like have like this self critical voice in your head.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah. Well, I mean after I'm done working on a record,
I don't listen to it a whole lot. But since
starting up a new tour here in about a week,
I'm going through all the materials, so I've been revisiting it,
or you'll run into people and they'll kind of talk
to you about I don't know, maybe the impact that
it's having on them. That's something that they really dig
and so then then then you're brought back to that
(04:50):
that mind frame and that discussion, and that always feels good,
you know, like, yeah, made a good record, that that's
what you're trying to do, and and it's fun revisiting it.
It still holds up. I'm not sick of it yet,
so that's always a good sign too.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Has getting feedback from people from fans about the way
that certain songs have impacted them. Does that change the
way you talk to musicians about songs of theirs that
you love.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know, it's really personal what what an artist's music
means to me. You know, I'm sure there's gonna be
a lot of shared stuff what it means to them too,
But it's also going to be pretty personal to them.
And I might not know all the details, nor do
I need to know all the details. I just need
to know that it means something to me and the
particular story or slant that I took it ass you know,
(05:39):
and you know the few conversations I've had with with
writers about particular songs, And you know, I'll be hanging
with you know, Billy Gibbons or something a couple of
weeks ago, and I'll ask them about mechanic, you know,
like what the hell are you is on here? And
blah blah blah, and it sounds like a piano but
it's a guitar. And like, you know, I'll be wrong
a lot of the times, you know what I mean.
So like it's always it's always surprising to get somebody's
(06:01):
personal take on it. At the flip side of that coin,
it's also cool leaving the mystery there and leaving some
space for for the creation of your own story to it,
to connect to a piece of music or art or
film or whatever it is. You know, a play, a book.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
You know, I know that you and Duff mccagan are
good friends. You guys play music a lot together. You
guys hang out watch football the first time. Like when
you first started hanging out with Duff, what did you
ask him about Guns N' Roses?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Uh? Boy? I think I probably told him, Like when
I when I finally connected with this band, I mean
I was aware of the band, and a lot of
my favorite bands I don't like instantly, you know, yeah,
and so because they were so huge and blowing up.
I mean, I like, I like rock and roll, and
they had roots of all the stuff I love, Aerosmith
(06:56):
and you know, good funky R and B fucking nasty
rock and roll and uh so, you know, overtly, I
liked it and it was blowing up, but I didn't
connect with the record. And I think I listened to
it for about a week, and I don't know I
was I think I told him a story. I was
living in an apartment downtown behind the Seattle Center, and
I still hadn't connected to the record. So I decided
(07:17):
to drop acid and listen to the whole thing one
more time. And I decided on that trip, and I
listened to the record of I still didn't like it.
I was going to throw it out the window. And
by the time, by the time Rocket Queen came on
that base, the drums in the bass got me. That's
when it all came into focus. And I was just
coming on to an acid trip. And I think I
(07:37):
told him that story that was it was a good one,
and I got it the doors of perception when we're open. Yes,
and I connected because the thing that got me was
his base ref Yeah totally. You know.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Oh that's super cool.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Wasn't there a story that you were at like a
gun show and you gave a demo to Axel?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Oh? Yeah? Uh. Like all young artists, you know, sometimes
you run onto somebody that's one of your heroes and
you pass them on your demo tape or whatever. Yeah.
I was actually like, I say, I live right behind
the Seattle Center and that's where they were playing. So yeah,
I handed it to his security guard and his security
guard threw it away as they were walking. So it
(08:20):
was an Axles fault. Now. I told Axel that story too,
and we laughed about that as well.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So well, at least it wasn't him, It was a security.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Guard that was a security guard. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I was having this debate with someone who I work
on this show with, and I wonder what, I'm just
curious what your answer would be, who do you think
is the best American rock band?
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Oh? Man, I'm all I'm still bad with best.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, I know, I know me too.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
It's an impossible statement, you know what I mean? You
want to be one of the best, you know, and
there's so many American American rock bands, just America. Yeah,
so you can throw out a couple.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
I'm just curious where your brain goes.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Oh, I don't know. I mean, like, you know, Aerosmith's
got to be up there, pretty close to top of
the list, you know, GNR, Metallica, those are pretty good ones. Yeah, okay, yeah,
that's good. We were saying.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Also, he brought up Grateful Dead and the Beach Boys.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, I'd go with the Beats. I you know, I
appreciate the Dead, and I'm sure you've had this experience.
There's dead Heads, and then there's people that don't get
the Dead, and none one of the Beats never got
the Dead. I appreciate them as musicians and I respect
full respect for the connection they have with their fans,
but it just never really spoke to me. Beast Boys, Yeah,
(09:37):
for sure. You know, Beast Boys were early Beast Boys
is badass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Let me ask about a couple of the songs on
the new album.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
The opening track Vilified.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Can you just tell me the story about how that
came together and especially that I love the like little
the hey, yeah, the repeating bit. It's so catching and
it's so good and it's sort of like reminiscent of
some old Alice songs. I thought, so tell me about
writing and arrange that one.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, the music is, it's a it's a really bizarre
piece of music. And it's in like six and seven
and I think maybe maybe there goes a section that
goes to eight too, So it's weird time signatures. It's
just four and a half half minutes of fury. You know,
once it once it starts, it does not stop. And
I remember coming up with it in two sections, both
(10:32):
at a sound check once when I was on tour
with on the Brighton tour, you know, was I was
messing around with with the riff and we were the
band kind of jumped in with me and kind of
played it. And then and then on another sound check
with Alice or a rehearsal room or something, I brought
that up and I was like that that's a good
one to file for file future use, and it ended up,
(10:53):
you know, working out that it ended up on being
on that record. But it's it's just weird, but it's
also really kind of got a pop element. To it
as well. It's just a weird psycho metal pop song. Uh,
and it's got a lot of energy. And you know,
the last two records I've done Brighton and I Want Blood,
two things have happened for me, and I don't know
(11:15):
if it's going to continue. But it's odd because I
never know what the record is going to be called.
And tell way, like when everybody's like, what the hell
are you going to call this thing? So it's a
last thing that you normally come up with. And on
both of these records, I had the title right out
the bat, importantly because I had written Vilified and I
had also written bright and then I'm like, those are great,
you know, and those are great songs. It gives it's
(11:37):
a good title for the body of work. It seems
to be a good descriptor you know what I mean.
So that Villified was a contender, you know, for an
album titled. But I guess my point being, I knew
what I was going to call them. I knew what
the how the albums were going to open, and Vilified
was always the open opener and it comes the closer.
So I came in almost with eight out of nine
(11:59):
songs in the position that they're on. I had them
written out in order like how the album was going
to go, and it ended up being pretty close in
the mark on brighton and I want uh and uh vilified.
I mean, it's just, you know, there's I think that
we're living in a really interesting time, you know what
I mean. And I think that we're I think that
everybody's everybody's got an opinion, and is is a rush
(12:23):
to share it with everybody and at each other's throats
and pointing fingers and and uh, you know, we're dealing
with dealing it with a different time, with a new time,
with new toys and new technology, and and I don't
know that we've necessarily learned how to use all that
stuff mainly, Yeah, no, And maybe that song is just
kind of like a like pointing out that fact and
(12:44):
maybe being a call to you know, be a little
cooler with each other, be a little more accepting.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
And then how did you come up with that the
catchy bit?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
You know? It just it always starts with the music.
So generally it always starts with the music. I'll get
the music together. So I got those three parts, the
main riff and then the and then the the B
section with the dead you know, and then the then
the slow you know, slow stomp that comes after that.
So I'm like, this is a good song. And then
(13:13):
you get that together and it can happen really quickly
with sections, and while you're listening. I do a lot
of listening in my car old school, So yeah, I
listen to the demos that we've made or or sometimes
write off the battle just pop pop, a good vocal,
I'll have a vocal idea that will go through my head,
so I'll singing some nonsense, nonsense lyrics to get the
(13:34):
melody lined down until it works, you know, and then
the next one, what the fuck are you trying to
say with that melody? So that's usually that's the very
last thing the subject matter.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Are you conscious of when you hear a new song, like,
not a new song of yours, but somebody else's song, Like,
are you conscious of what part of the song you
pay attention to most, whether it's the lyrics or the
melody or you know, a certain instrument.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
There's so much freedom in music, you know. I mean basically,
if you look, if you're kind of break down songwriting
to structure, you know, you're talking about intro, a verse,
a bridge, a chorus, and maybe like a middle eight,
you know, so that that's the thing. But there's so
much ways, so many ways you can play with that
and sounds and and and what somebody is trying to
(14:21):
get across. And you know, I'm a big fan of film.
I still watch tons of movies, and you know, good movies,
crappy movies, doesn't matter, like I just like movies, and
music is a big part of film and the storytelling
of that. So so of course I'm always keyed into
the music aspect of telling a story. And that's really
what I'm trying to do is make a little mini
(14:43):
movie by writing a song, you know, like a little scene.
I want to be transported to some place that that
I've never been to, or or maybe be reminded of
a place that's familiar to me. Like, hey, that's kind
of cool, you know, like that brings me back to
this thing, and that's fucking cool. I like that, you know,
And it's a shared experience. But you know, there's there's
(15:04):
only twelve notes and and there's you know, basically, songs
are three parts, three or four parts, and you know
the math of it is is pretty simple, but but
it's so so intricate and unique and the way that
ever the lens of everybody, that all of that flows through,
those basic elements flow through it. And when somebody's able
to put those into like a song that makes you
feel and takes you on a ride or makes you
(15:26):
want to play it again, like call somebody and go like, man,
have you heard this? Man? You know that that that
that's cool? Man? You want to be part of that story?
And I think that's I think that's what we're all
trying to do.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Can you remember the last song that you were super
moved by that maybe you shared with someone else or
you couldn't stop listening to.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I mean, I'm in I'm in me mode right now. Yeah,
So I haven't really you know, I haven't really listened
to a whole lot of stuff. But I was watching
I was watching The Accountant last night, and there's like
a really cool I Forget the This with Ben Affleck.
He's like some like a autistic hit man kind of dude.
(16:08):
And oh wow, but there's a song in that soundtrack
and I can't remember off the top of my head
what it was. And also up in the air I
might be in a R bock tune. It's fucking cool
as shit. I really like. I like the Black Keys
a lot. They're they're really talented. And then watching the
Agency and it's it's got that great Jack White song
in it too. He's pretty fucking badass as well.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yeah, he is badass.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I think I heard you in another interview talking about
an album he did where there was like an EP,
like hidden in the album.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, inside the grooves of the album another it there's
an album groove, and then inside the album of that
groove is an EP. That's so cool. I've never heard
of anything like that. That's like how that dude's brain works.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Is there any other genre of music outside of rock
that you are fanatic about or that you just know
a lot about.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I just like good music, man. I don't care about
the style, man, I like I like Who's I like
R and B, I like even I even like some
hip hop, you know, I like soul, o the country,
like jazz, like metal, you know. I mean, yeah, I
like classical. You know, some classical ship. It's just fucking amazing,
you know what I mean, It's still great and what
(17:25):
you know it it's it's such a personal music is
such a personal thing, like what what connects? I'm not
like hunting for stuff. I'm only hunting when I'm trying
to make something myself. You know. It's just like the
rest of life is just you know, lucky happenstance. When
when you turn on the radio, or you see something
in a movie, or you or you go to a
show and or you're playing a bill at a at
(17:47):
a festival and a band comes on and kickshaw that
you don't know about, Like holy shit. I mean, that's
that's the cool part. Somebody's there's a lot of us
out there still doing it, and that gives me a
qlope the reason why I do it in the first place.
You know, it's not supposed to speak to everybody, but
it's it finds its people, you know. I mean, each
each band, each each song, each piece of music someone somewhere.
(18:10):
It's kind of eternal in a respect, at least longer
than a lifetime. I don't know if it's like yes,
all time eternal, but once it's out there, it's there
for people to find, you know, throughout the generations. And
I think that's that's a pretty magical thing, and that
aspect has never been lost on me. And so like
anytime I hear something that that makes me feel or
(18:30):
or like fuck, that's cool man, you know that that's
a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
We'll be right back with more from Jerry Cantrell. After
the break, We're back with more from Jerry Cantrell.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Do you have any tricks that help you unlock.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
You know, if you're having like writer's block, or you
don't know where to go with a song, if a
part is missing. Do you have any things that you
can sort of like trick yourself into coming up with ideas?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Uh, well, there's a there's a couple of ways you
can go about it. Well, one one is leave it alone,
walk away from it, you know, until if you just
keep banging your head against it and it ain't happened
and you can't fucking force it, you know what I mean.
But you still you can take a temps at it
now and again when you when you like funk, that's
cool man, It's but but if it ain't happening, leave
(19:21):
it alone, move on to something else, you know, to
go to somebody else, you know, go to go to Sean,
go to Duff, go to Tyler go to Big or
Max like like, yeah, what do you think about this? Man?
I like, I don't have an idea here, like and
and and bounce your bounce that off of people that
(19:41):
you trusty creative people, and and that can that that
that's a good way to to jostle you. If it's
not the part, it might be something to challenge you
of like I can do better than that, you know
what I mean? So whatever, something to shift you off
of the dead space if you happen to find yourself
on and then the third way is just to keep grinding,
(20:02):
Just to keep grinding at it, you know what I mean.
Lyrics for me are that that way. I always get
block up on that stuff. The longest part of the
processes is the lyric writing. A lot of the time
on this record, I was blocked on throw me a line.
I had a really great opening chapter for the story,
and I had it set pretty good, and I had
(20:24):
had a good intro, I had a good, good verse
written down and in a B section, and then it
came to the second version, I got completely blocked and
I could I was blocked for a bit, and I
went to a went and saw a film by Scorsese
Killers of the Flower Moon has nothing to do with
the song, but a couple of scenes in that movie
(20:47):
knocked me out of something visually, and then I was
able to kind of continue the thread with that, kind
of like the fire scene in the middle of that
movie where they're kind of torching the fields and stuff like, Okay,
I got it. So it's you know, go to another artist,
you know, go to another artist, go to another medium
you know that can that can knock you out of
out of your out of your staleness and give you
a fresh perspective.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
You know, do you have to like take a voice
note right as you're watching it?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
So I do I talk it right into my phone,
or if I hear something, I sing it, or if
I play something, I record it immediately. As one another
thing learned about the process, I've lost not a ton,
not a ton because I've learned this lesson early on
of like I'll remember that and then oh, right, what
the tuck was that? You know what I mean? So
(21:32):
I've always been a big recorder and a big documentary
I call it riff mining, and so I make sure
when I find a nugget, to make sure to make
a record of it, you know what I mean. Yeah,
you can always come back to it and refer to it,
you know, and an form that it actually exists, you know,
to be able to refer to.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
So yes, And then historically, how has it been for you?
Have you had success writing lyrics or writing music or
arranging anything with like drinking or like you know, some
people can only write if they smoke some pot or
whatever it is, Like, how has that been for you?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Well, I've done it both ways, and I've written some
really good songs both ways. So I think both both
ways work. You know, I've lived through a period of
my life where it worked and then it didn't work. Yeah,
so I try to try, which relates exactly to what
we were just talking about with the block. If something's
not working for me or you got to find a
(22:30):
new way to do it, so you know, and that
I went through that change personally about twenty one years ago.
And you know, I think I'm still still writing as
impactful to me anyway, impactful weird, fucked up music like
I made when I fucked up. So I don't really
think that that's a requirement. It is part of the
(22:53):
mythos of being a musician and an art I think
everybody kind of asked to go through that period. I know,
I knew that was attractive and appealing to me, even
with all of the yeah, even with all of the
signposts of early deaths and not working out for people like, hey,
that's not going to happen to me. You know, I'm
sure they thought that too, right, you know what I mean.
(23:16):
So I don't denigrate it. I don't put it down.
I've been sober for twenty one years and I still
wouldn't be able to get fucked up, you know what
I mean? Because it is fun. It's fun getting outside.
It's totally trippy hanging out with weird people, you know,
just different scenarios, different different frames of mind that being
high and getting fucked up can can put you in.
(23:37):
So I'm not going to put it down because I
did it, and I and I did a lot of
good stuff, but you know, at some point it stopped
working for me. Luckily, I knew a lot of people
that did what I that I did, referring to some
of the guys in the the sort of playing with
right after I got sober, Billy Morrison, Tomorrow, Matt's Arm
Billy duppy, you know, the guys who'd been through through
(23:58):
what I through partying and then gone through the other
side of like, Okay, this doesn't work anymore. I got
to figure a new way to out to do this. Yeah,
all those guys still rock as far as I've last checked,
and I think I'm doing okay too as far as the
music element. So you can. You can do it either way.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You know, was there a time in your life where
you thought drug use was glamorous?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Oh? I don't know. I mean, it's just like I say,
it's part of the part of the mythos and you're
you're a young kid, so you're gonna you're gonna do
all this stuff that young kids do. I'm not a
young kid anymore. So I can't do what young kids do.
It would fucking kill me. So I gotta do. Uh
this version of me, which which I like very much.
I I like life. I like the consistency of life now,
(24:40):
Like the ceilings are not as high, okay, but the
floors are not as low either, so you know, I
mean it's a little bit more even, and uh, I
like that consistency.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So yeah, have you always been drawn two dark things?
Like you said, like you can write equally as fucked
up things now as you know back when.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
But have you always been drawn to sort of like
the dark arts.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, like horror movies, books like how far does It go?
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah? I think it goes really deep. I mean I
was a huge horror fan. I mean, Stephen King is
one of my all time favorite authors. I like material
that has weight, that's dark, that has impact that shocks.
You know. I love party music too, man, I just
don't write it, you know what I mean. It doesn't
connect to me as something I want to recreate. There's
other artists and other bands that do it and do
(25:30):
it well, and I enjoy it. I love that shit, man.
But I agree with you that, you know, I'm kind
of drawn to things a little bit more in the shadows,
and also something that's going to give you a good
left turn or a good shock or a good punch
to the face, or maybe confronting some things that are
some things and emotions and situations that aren't easy to
talk about. You know. I'm into music, you know, so
(25:54):
I think that that's one of the aspects of music
that is so appealing to us weird little monkeys. You know,
it's it's a way for us to share things with
each other without actually ever you know, even if we
have never met or you know what I mean, we
can can still understand each other and communicate with each
other and share stuff. And it makes the tough stuff easier,
(26:15):
you know, because it's because it's shared. It also makes
the good stuff even that much more fucking celebratory because
you know, we're all feeling that way. So I think
that that's a pretty apt descriptor do you.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Remember as a kid when you started realizing that you
were into dark stuff or when that started to when
that just started overall?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I don't know when it started, you know dark to me,
I don't know, it's I don't know that there's like
a lot of connotations of that that that I would
take exception to, Like, so like what dark? So it's
it's just a it's a bummer, it's evil. I think
the word for me that better is weight, something that's
got substantial you know, like a big, greasy, bleeding cheeseburger,
(27:01):
you know, you know what I mean? So uh Bord
and I just we always talk about making big, greasy,
bloody cheeseburgers. We're fitting drub cheeseburgers. But what that is,
that's the type of work we want to make. You know,
it's a sloppy, fucking mess, and it should have some
fucking on it. There's no reason it may not be
(27:21):
nutritionally fucking the great for you, but it's just fucking primal,
you know. So I've always been drawn to films, books,
music like that, even classical type stuff when I was
in school, So I guess that's the music. I tried
to make my own version of it.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
I saw someone refer to to you and laying your
harmonies as the Devil's Everly Brothers.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, well I always liked that one. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
Do you remember the first time you guys sang together
and what you realize like, was it like a revelation
or did it sort of take some time to become
what it was?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I mean, it always takes time in retrospect, it wasn't
that much time. I mean we formed at the end
of eighty seven, and we so basically basically eighty eight
was where you know, we started actually, you know, playing
gigs and stuff like that. We'd played our first gig
at Caine Hall at the University of Washington in I
think December of eighty seven, so, and we put our
(28:22):
first record out in ninety you know, FACELIOFS. So it
wasn't really that long, but you know, we would just
spend a lot of time jamming and you know, living together,
like either in the rehearsal place or we had a
band house, and you know, we were coming up with
ideas and jam and stuff. And you know, I think
Laine was a big fan of you know, harmony and
different voices, you know, in the band. It was his
(28:43):
actually suggestion that I actually sing more, you know, starting
from sap onward. You know, I started singing more and
more at his suggestion, and I was completely happy just
singing some singing backups and writing songs because we had him,
you know, so but he was like that, you know,
you should you should sing these two and you know,
the Beatles is probably the best reference. There are many
(29:06):
bands that come after the Beatles that are this blue
print where there's more than one lead singer, more than
one writer, more than one lead voice. And I've always
been a fan of bands like that, and so it
was really cool to be able to develop into a
band that kind of had that. Those Hallwarks you know,
the either Lane could lead or I could lead, or
(29:28):
when we sang together, you know, we created something bigger
than the both of us, you know, and so like
one plus one equals three, you know.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, when you meet super fans, when you meet Alice
and Jane super fans, what are they usually curious about?
Speaker 4 (29:41):
What do they ask you about?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
What are they ask me about? I mean all sorts
of stuff. It's cool, man, Like, you know, it's amazing
that to have people that have connected to the work
that you've been a part of, you know. So so
you know this musical stuff, personal stuff, you know, stuff
from the past. You know what's going on now. You know,
generally everybody wants a picture. Yeah, sometimes that's an opportune
(30:08):
time for me. So I always I always want to
send somebody away with at least a hello, a handshake,
and a guitar pick.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
So I always have a yeah I saw somebody on
Reddit who got a guitar pick.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I usually have a big pocket full of guitar picks.
So so I've got something to give somebody. But you know,
it's usually just a quick hello, how you do? And
my head that that was cool? You know me.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yea early on in the band.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
How would you describe everyone in the band, like what
their individual expertise was.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, I mean, I think I think all bands have
a particular alchemy, and I think I think that a
lot of the I think a lot of the things
of why things work and what those elements are are
kind of hard to define, but they're completely necessary. You know,
you need Ringo, you need you need George Harrison, you
need Cartney, you need Lenin to make the Beatles. And
(31:02):
you can say that about any band, including ours, Mike,
Me and Sean. So all elements are acquired. Uh, you
have a shared vision. I guess that you develop because
you're a bunch of young guys and you're kind of
excited about making music together, and at some point you decide, hey,
I like hanging out with you, you know, why don't
(31:23):
we Why don't we try to make a band? You know?
And it works? You know. And I think also that
you know, there may be certain like roles I guess
that each guy plays or whatever that are yeah, or
maybe clearly defined, but but I think they're all roles
that we all trade off to each other at different times,
you know, So you know, maybe somebody is the main songwriter.
(31:46):
Now maybe maybe that changes later, or maybe somebody handles
the business aspect of it, or maybe that changes later
to somebody else, Like it's you. Yeah, you have a
shared experience and you're all learning things and going about
things and together. So it's stuff you all share. So
we everybody can play any position on the field that
(32:07):
need to, including the one that they play in the band,
you know, whether the bass player, the drummer, or the
guitar player.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Very cool, Okay, So I wanted to ask you about
a couple of individual songs.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
First is Damn That River. Do you remember how that
came about?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Do you remember any of the sessions or anything really
from you know, writing that song, arranging that song?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Oh boy, I mean I don't know. It's it's been
a few years. Yeah, Damn that I was just a
really aggressive riff, you know, and a lot of energy
to that. Good tunes, good riff.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
Yeah totally.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
Do you find like, do you trust your memory at
this point? Like I know that you have to. When
people interview you, they ask often about things that happened,
you know, as early as eighty seven. Now, do you
trust that the stories happened as you remember?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Them.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
I just no memory can be a funny thing and sometimes.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, well, you know, there's there's a couple of elements here,
you know, like like one, do you want to talk
about it too? You might not want to let somebody
know all that all there is to know at any
given moment, right Two. Uh, yeah, it's a lot of
years past. But you know, you also have the collective
memory of all of you together, so that helps if
there's fucking lapses, you know what I mean. So I'm
(33:31):
focused on what I'm doing right now.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
So yeah, yeah, can you tell me a little bit
about Afterglow? That's another track that really stood out to
me on the new album. How did that one come
to be?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
You know, I did most of the demoing and writing
here at my house, and you know, I've got a
pretty minimal setup. It's not like a grand studio thing.
It's just you know, pro tools type stuff, and you know,
I got a little electronic drum kit and some headphones
that we can all jam on and so we don't
piss the neighbors off, you know what I mean. So yeah,
but it's cool, you know, just like it's like old
school shity living room jamsh you know, a converted bedroom
(34:07):
to write in, and I got a little converted bedroom
studio upstairs, and then the living rooms turned into a
jam room. And the process for me is pretty similar,
you know, It's pretty tried and true, so I stick
with it. It's it's about I don't know what what
flips the switch in my head. I don't write all
the time, and I think it's important. It takes months,
(34:28):
you know, sometimes even years before I make another think
about making another record, you know what I mean, or
or writing another song, you know. And once when I'm
in the the headspace of touring, which I am right now,
I will write a lot less, you know. And when
that all wraps up, then at some point it'll go
on and that that switch will get flipped and it'll
(34:48):
be it's time to time to go again. And so
I'll call up Max or my good buddy Paul Figueroa,
who has been my demo and engineer partner for the
last four four records. This year was Maxwell Yurowski, really
talented dude, and it'll just be me and me and
them in a room just sketching shit out, mess and
messing around with stuff, and then call and a few
(35:09):
people few friends to jam them out in the in
the room to to uh to test them, test the theory,
see how it feels in a live context, and then
also get ideas and go back into the writing process.
But it's usually once it starts, it's about three four
months of demoing, and then it's a month or two
of like pre production with like who you're going to
make the record with and who's gonna record it for you,
(35:32):
and then you go onto the record and that's another
you know, three to six months, and so it's it's
about a year process of making a record from wow,
from scratch to end, and then it and then the
touring cycle starts. And then that when you were from
a year to year and a half, so you're looking
at a two and a half to three year cycle
and you got to you got to be willing to
take that whole ride, leave anything on the field, and
(35:54):
you can't. You can't wo's out once it starts, it's
like when you've got to commit to that. And so
going back to the beginning of that, that's why I
take time off, you know, I think time off totally
it's important so that you can recharge, you can kind
of clear the decks of ideas, the halls are empty
and get quiet again for new ideas to come in
(36:14):
and start collecting again. So yeah, but you were asking
me about Afterglow. I thought that was a cornerstone song.
I think there's a handful of really cornerstone songs to
each album and vilify it and and Afterglow are both those.
And I got to work with one of my one
of my favorite filmmakers and video artists, Matt Maherne, and
he made a great video for it as well. But yeah,
(36:37):
it's a really lush landscape and it's got the got
the cool keys and the strings kind of you know,
all of my love Led Zeppelin kind of vibe to
a little bit of that kind of bottom roll to it,
and some John Paul Jones keyboards and shit. And it's
an important song and I think that's gonna where That's
going to be the next single here.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
So what do you see, if Eddie, the difference between
Brighton and I Want Blood. I've seen that, you know,
people describing I Want Blood as having more teeth and
just being harder, generally more aggressive and brightened, being a
little bit more like mild tempo acoustic bass songs.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
How do you see the difference in what, like.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Where were you at in your life personally when those
albums were coming together.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Well, they're three years apart, so that's a lot of
life and yeah, always going to be in a different
a much different place with that much time that's passed.
So then that's the cool thing about about living a life,
about living a musical, creative life. You know, you're always
standing somewhere new, you know what I mean. The world
(37:45):
is going through something that hasn't gone through before. The
you know, events, you know, things happen, your relationships change.
I mean, for me, it's a different kid. You know,
it's a kid born three years after the last one,
so you should be able to see the lineage. Yeah,
that's his kid. But yeah, so it's the baby right
now and it might be a little more really and
(38:07):
a little bit more of a troublemaker than the last.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
On Brighton, I want to ask you about the song
A Tone. How did that one come to be?
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, that's a that's a really interesting Uh, it's a
really interesting story on the tone. I had that riff
and I had two parts of a three part song,
but I only had the two and so that's why
it never became a song, So cycling through my head
for almost two decades. So then I knew it was
really good, but I also knew it needed a it
(38:45):
needed a third part, so that breakdown section in the
middle and also the outro stomp Tyler Bates contribution to
that that particular song. H those two new things came
into existence and allowed it to be finally a song.
Ideas or ideas, you know, like, you know, not every
script gets made, you know, but it's cool to keep it,
(39:06):
you know what I mean? And and like maybe maybe
like parts of parts of things can be frankenstein into
something else later on and become a full fledged song
on its own. And a Tone was one of those.
It's great and I like philified. I thought it was
the perfect gopiner.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
After this last quick break, we'll be back with the
rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Jerry Cantrell. Here's the
rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Jerry Cantrell.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Is there anything else about the new album or anything
about the tour that you want to talk about specifically?
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, Well, this year is it's going to be interesting
because you know, I am a member of Alis in Chains,
and so you know, that's kind of my first and
foremost love and has been my commitment. I don't get
the opportunity to do these very often records outside of
the band. I guess that's why I'm a little more
wanting to focus on this right now. It's because it
doesn't happen very often. I've done these two records within
(40:07):
a three year period, andlast time I did that, I
did another two records within a three year period nineteen
to twenty years ago. Hopefully one other twenty years before
I get to do a couple more. But if that's
the case, that's fine, because I'll be making music with
Alice like I have been doing all along. So so
this year is fun because I get to I get
(40:27):
to do some touring with Alice and also do some
touring on a record that I made for myself and
with my creative partners outside the band.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
So how are you with touring? Do you enjoy it
at this point?
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Oh? Yeah, I mean that's the best part, you know,
The best part is standing in front of people and
playing this stuff and having it back to it and
getting that instant you know, connection. It's always surprising, you know,
to me, it still is. You know, there's that I
think you know, we're all human and so you know,
there's always that voice in the back of your head
(41:03):
like you know, one of these days they're going to
figure out you're a fucking fraud. And that right, you know,
that's that's that's a good voice because it drives you
to prove, to achieve, to be better, to work hard.
And the payoff is when you're standing on a stage
and you're and you've gone through all that process and
mental mumbo jumbo with yourself and and you come out
(41:25):
the other side with a batch of tunes and stand
on a stage and play I've made connections, you know,
and written some pretty good songs over the last uh,
you know, three four decades that people want to you know,
react to. So to play them stuff along with that
old the older tunes and have them react in the
same way, it gives you chills. I was in the
Buenos Ais uh in particular. Uh, it's really trippy there.
(41:48):
They like sing the guitar solos as well as the
I mean, the whole thing, like you know it's going
to happen, but but like even the little little riffs
like on on Afterglow they start singing that ship and
it's like so cool. It takes you by It takes
me by surprise, and like I can kind I've expected
(42:09):
because I know the audience is going to do that,
but when it actually happens and it hits you and
this thing just came out like a week ago, you know,
it's it's a really powerful moment, you know.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
So when is the ideal time would you say to
see a band, like at what point during the tour
in the beginning, middle, or end.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I think any times really good. I mean, you know,
if there's a band that you want to see and
you're you happen to be at the first aid on
the tour, you can't really do anything exactly unless you
want to travel. Sometimes it's cool, man, when it's raw
and loose, you know, and that that really is rock
and roll. Rock and roll is the threat that the
(42:46):
train could come off the rails at any moment. Yes,
And I think I even reference that in a in
a song and off the rails, so like there's always
two wheels off the rails. Man, it's always threatening, you know,
to come off, to come off and it doesn't somehow,
and and and it's always fun live when shit gets
a little squirrely, like can they bring it back? You know?
(43:07):
Can you can you save? Yeah, because it's it's live performance,
and and that's kind of the beauty of it. You know,
some of the early gigs can be fun because there's
they're kind of a little looser and raw. And then
you know, but it's also kind of cool seeing middle
tour gigs who were where you're kind of greasy and
and in the groove, and you know, at toward toward
(43:28):
the end of the tour sometimes you know you could
be dealing with elements like where or somebody could be
you know, you could be sick. That always sucks. The
worst thing. You can be sick and feel like shit
and play a gig doing any other position in the band,
but trying to sing when you have an o blaces.
Fucking that's that sucks. And I've done it many times
and I will unless I absolutely can't utter a word
(43:52):
or I've got a fucking ivy in my arm and
I'm in a bed, which has only happened once or
twice in my career. I'm going to be up there
until I fall over, wow, because they paid money and
bought tickets, and they made plans and they got hotel rooms,
and if I can make it happen, I'm try to
do it. And so that all goes in with what
we were talking about with the live element. Once it starts,
(44:14):
you can't stop it, you know what I mean, unless
it's catastrophic, you know, And and those happened very rarely, thankfully.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
So have you ever had any like major malfunctions happened
during a show where like sound goes out or all
the time?
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Yeah, all the time. I think one of the most
epic ones was I think it was the show we
got signed on. We were playing at some I think
it was a drag strip, some sort of raceway and
Spokane or something. We were opening for Tesla, Great White
and somebody else, and we had like a I don't know,
(44:49):
we had like twenty minutes to open. We were were
the first band. We had twenty minutes, and the PA
wasn't on for so we basically played like four songs,
four or five songs, and the PA wasn't even on
for about half of them. Oh, and everybody in the
audience is like, can't hear you, we can't hear you.
(45:11):
And we got off and we were so pissed off
and we thought we blew our big break. But the
guys from Nick Turzo and Ron I think his name was,
but they're like, now, you guys, dealt with it. Dealt
with it fine. And the two songs that were through
the PA were killed some we're going to sign anyway,
So another gig and I want to say it was
(45:31):
maybe Finland or something, and the PA went out for
about forty five minutes and like my god, basically we
just stopped the show. We went and went down to
the barricade and kind of let everybody know because they
couldn't hear us through the mic. So we went down
and said, hey, the power is off. We're going to
stay here till the power comes back on, if that's
okay with you, and we just kind of hung out
talk with the crowd until the power came back on
(45:53):
and then we finished our set.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Yeah yeah, I heard you had food poisoning during the
Alison Chains unplug show.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Oh yeah, I was not feeling well. Yeah, And if
you look very closely, there's a trash can at my
feet for me to vomit in but luck when the
when the light went green and the cameras went on
and we started playing, I got a little adrenaline rush
and I started. Yeah. So that turned out to be
one of the greatest shows we've ever played, you know.
(46:21):
So yeah, but I was feeling like fucking shit until
it started, and then soon as the show was over,
I went back to feeling like shit and back on
the IV. So I was sick and sick as a dog. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yeah, I was watching it last night and I saw
I think it was during Rooster. You were kind of
like laughing doing something. I was like, oh, he looks
he looks happy.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Actually, yeah, yeah, that's just part of the deal man. Cool.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
Is there anything else you want to talk about with
the new album, any other new projects, any movie projects
coming up?
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Uh, you know, I'm always open to that. I would
love to do a song with Tyler for a movie.
We wrote a song called A Job to Do for
the second John Wick installment and that was really fun.
You know, I want blood the people that I that
I had made the record with, you know, Gil Sharon
and Mike than on drums. You know, it's it's my
(47:12):
second record with both of those guys. Robert Trujillo. It's
my second record with Degradation Trip and this one Duff
and I. I think I've done three or four records together,
a couple of his, couple of Greg Proshato. That's it's
our it's our second record together. Being in a band
is hanging out with your friends, just like it always was,
(47:33):
you know, like you get together in a basement, in
a garage, in a living room and you rock out
and try to figure out this thing called rock and roll,
share it and try to create your own version of it.
And so in Alice, we're a family, and first and
foremost we're friends. And so if I'm making music outside
the band, I still go by that template. I call
it my friend. So that's why all these these fine
(47:55):
folks are on the record. Also, you know, it's not
lost on me that I'm pretty lucky to be able
to call these guys up who all have pretty amazing
bands and pretty full time jobs with their bands, and
catch him in windows when when we're able to make
some music together, it's just it's just lined up that way,
and uh, and we make we make some pretty good
(48:17):
noise together. So I'm glad, everybody said yes when I called.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
Yeah, it sounds like so much fun.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
It is it should be.
Speaker 4 (48:25):
Thank you so much, Jerry, appreciate you. I appreciate your
time and have fun on tour.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Okay, thanks Leah.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Thanks so much to Jerry Cantreell for coming on to
talk about his new project I Want Blood and His
Days and Alison Chains to hear some of our favorite
Jerry Cantroyl and Alison Chans songs. Check out the playlist
and episode notes or on our website at broken Record
podcast dot com, and be sure to follow us on
Instagram at the Broken Record pot. You can follow us
on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and
(48:57):
edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler
and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolat.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Broken Record is a.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and
others from push and consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin
Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and
ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look
for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you
like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review
(49:25):
us on your podcast aff Our theme music's by Kenny Beats.
I'm Justin Richmond,
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