Smokey Robinson

As if having one of the most beautiful and distinctive voices of all time weren’t enough, Smokey Robinson is also one of the greatest songwriters ever, a top-notch producer, engaging performer, and an indispensable part of Motown's legacy. In other words: he’s an institution of American music unto himself.

On February 19th, Smokey turns 85, and as he prepares to head out for another run on the road including a three night engagement at the Venetian in Las Vegas, Smokey sat down with Justin Richmond for a conversation about his incredible life and legacy.

You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite Smokey Robinson songs HERE.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin Smokey Robinson as if having one of the most
beautiful and distinctive voices of all time. One enough, he's
also one of the greatest songwriters of all time, a
top notch producer, engaging performer, and then an indispensable part
of the founding and fabric of motown. In other words,

(00:35):
he's an institution of American music unto himself. But sometimes
I wonder if he's hiding in playing sight. A fus
music lovers take him for granted. This week, on February nineteenth,
twenty twenty five, he'll be turning eighty five years old,
and because he's been around as long as he has,
performing year round, still putting out albums, I think maybe
we're prone to forget just how monumental he is to music.

(00:58):
With that in mind, and with Smokey preparing to head
out for another run on the road, including a three
night engagement at the Venetian in Las Vegas, we sat
down for a conversation about his life and legacy. Hopefully
it'll be the first many conversations we have on broken
record with the great Smokey Robinson. This is broken record
liner notes to the digital age. I'm Justin Mitchell. Here's

(01:25):
my conversation with Smokey Robinson. To see the video version
of this episode, visit YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast.
So happy to hear you have a Cadillac, because it's like,
whenever I go to Detroit, Man, that's the most beautiful thing.
I go to Detroit and you're like, yeah, I'm here
because everyone's got you know, it's Cadillac. It's uh.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
You know, his field was right down the street from
General Motors. Man, and everybody had his field.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's all American made. When you go to Detroit, it's
the most beautiful thing you ever seen. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
And so you still and you're still you're still driving yourself.
You don't want most of the time, you don't want
to call man.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I'm a very normal guy. Man. You know I don't
have chauffeurs and all this. You know what, I'm independent.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Did you ever have a period of time where you thought,
let me try, let me, let me get a chauffeur.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
No, no, no, no, I only use the shaufe If I'm
going somewhere official, to a gig, or to the Grammys
or the airport something like that, you know, I'll have
a guy who drives me for that.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
But for my regular What's what been very successful for
a long time as an incredible songwriter, singer, company man,
record mad I made VP of Motown for a period
of time as well. I'm an incredible career. What has
kept you grounded all these years?

Speaker 2 (02:48):
What's kept me grounded the fact that I recognize the
fact that I'm very, very, very blessed man. You see,
I'm living my impossible dream. You know, as a child,
this is what I want to do with my life.
And I just from where I grew up in the
hood and all that just wasn't going to be possible,
you know. So I'm I'm very I'm very blessed man,

(03:11):
and I don't take it for granted. You know. I've
seen thousands of people come through show business. Man, I've
been doing this forever and they get hit record or
something like that, and they think, oh gosh, the world
cannot possibly do without me. Now they know me, So
I'm in You know, that's a bad mistake, man. You know,
I tell them all the time. If you think he
can sing, let me take you to my church on

(03:31):
Sunday and let you hear your sister Ada Maybell. You
know what I'm saying. So it's just, you know, you
have to you have to recognize the source and and
and and what allows me to do this. And I
you know, I just thank God has blessed me to
do it. And so that's how I feel about it.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
I mean you when you say that, when you say,
if you come across someone who thinks they can sing,
let me take it to your church, I mean that
has been reality for your whole life. Coming from Detroit
where at eight years old, you know Aretha Franklin and
Irma Franklinton and her father, Reverend Franklin, and you know
the four.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Times and Daniel Ross lived Flordo was on the street
from me. Ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
You know what, what was primo town when you all
guys were just growing up and singing and just knowing
each other. Did you realize how insane it was that
you guys all had these magnificent voices?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
You know what, man, I tell people all the time. See,
I think that we, first of all, we were we
were fortunate that there was a lot of talented kids
and young people in Detroit. And like you said, I
grew up with most of them because you know, Rees
Franklin right around the corner from me, And until Aretha passed,
she was my longest living friend because all of our

(04:56):
other friends in the neighborhood were gone, you know what
I mean, except for her and Diana, you know. And
so so I grew up with these people, and uh,
the the the We had a lot of talented people
around there, you know. But I believe that in every
big city, in every town, every little village anywhere in

(05:18):
the world, radio wise, with the amount of people that
they're that might be that same amount of people ratio wise.
We had Barry Gordy, you know what I mean. We
had a young man who had a dream, who about
eight hundred dollars from his family to start what became
Motown internationally, you know what I mean. So that's a

(05:41):
special man, you know. And he was our teacher, he
was our groomer, you know. And when I met him,
he was just a songwriter and a record producer in Detroit.
He was a young man and I met him quite
by chance. I tell everybody it was a god day.
Because the miracles and I we weren't called the miracles

(06:03):
at that time. We would call the matadors. But one
of our members when we graduated from high school, had
had his parents to sign for him to go to
the Army because he wanted to go down because we
weren't doing anything as a group. So his sister was
in a sister group to our group in Detroit. And
so when we went for the art one of the

(06:24):
members of our group, a guy named Ron White, had
a cousin who told us that Jackie Wilson's managers. Now,
as a kid growing up, man Jackie Wilson was my
number one singing idol okay, and he was from Detroit,
and he was just a man. He was just you know.
And so we had an audition with his managers and

(06:45):
we go to audition for them, and rather than singing
songs that were currently popular by other artists, we sang
five songs that I had written. I've been writing songs
since I was in elementary school or trying anyway. And
so there was a young man sitting over in the corner,
and see, I'm sixteen, and he looked like he was
no more than nineteen or twenty, you know, And I'm

(07:07):
thinking that he's waiting to audition after we finish. However,
he's listening to us very carefully, you know, and he's
just sitting in the corner listening. And so when we
got through singing these songs, Jackie Wilson's A and R
man who had been there listening to us, said, well, man,
he said, you guys like the Platters. You know, the

(07:28):
Platters were the number one group in the world at
the time, and they had Zola the girls in the group,
and Tony sang high. He said, you got the same
format you singing Hi and the girls in the group.
He said, we don't need another Platters man, and you
guys are not going to overtake the Platters, So I'm sorry,
we can't use you. So we're dejected and we go
out and we you know, the young man who was
sitting over in the corner comes out behind est. He says, hey, man,

(07:51):
wait a minute. So I said yeah. He said, where'd
you get some songs from that you sing? So I'm wondering,
why is he asking me that, you know, I said,
I wrote them. He said you wrote all those songs.
I said yeah. He said, well, I liked a couple
of your songs. Man, something to myself. I'm being polite.
I'm saying, well, thank you very much man, you know,

(08:12):
but I'm ready to go because you know so, so
he said, I like to cover your song, you know.
And I'm thinking to myself, maybe he wants to use
my songs audition with it, you know. So he said, Now,
when I buy records, and I still do that today, Man,
when I buy records, I want to know who composed
the music, who wrote the song. If it's just an instrumental,

(08:33):
who composed this music? I want to know that because
I like checking up on writers, you know. So now
I got all of Jackie Wilson's records, you know, and
so he said, yeah, he said, I'm Barry Gordy. What
you are Barry Gordy who writes all those sits for
Jackie Wilson and all that, Yeah, and some songs edit, James,
You're that Barry Gordy And he said yeah. I said,

(08:57):
I got all your music, man. He said, well it's good.
You got good taste, he said, but I like to
couple your songs. He said, you got any more songs?
He shouldn't have said that, because I had a loosely notebook, man,
with about one hundred songs that I've been writing to
elementary school, you know. So he takes me in this
little room and he says, sing some of your songs
from me. I like the sound of your voice. I said, okay.

(09:19):
So I sang about twenty songs a rare that day, man,
And I loved him because he never once said, okay, man,
I'm tired, I heard enough, or I got the gold,
I got a poet. He never said that. He just listened,
and every song he critiqued it. Because I've always been
able to rhyme stuff. I've always been able to. I
used to write poems as a child, and I've always
been able to rhyme stuff. But my songs at that time, man,

(09:40):
I only had two songs. The two did like that
made sense, you know what I mean. They were all
rhymed up, really good, but they didn't make sense, you know,
because the first verse had nothing to do with the
second verse. You know. First verse is, oh, my love,
I love you so much. It's so glad to have
you here in my arms and holding you like this,
and we should never part and all that, and it's

(10:02):
all rhymed up, you know. Second verse is, oh baby,
where are you? I haven't seen you in ten years
and I need you back bad. But it's all rhymed up.
But he got nothing to do with the bird first,
you know. So after a while he pointed that out
to me. He said, hey man, he said, let me
tell you something. He said, the song has got to
be like a short book or a short movie or
short story where the beginning, in the middle and the

(10:23):
ending tie in together and they you know, they go together,
you know. He say, your song is just rambling, he said,
But I want you to listen to radio and see
what's happening, you know, and see how songs are. You know,
he said, because you can rhyme really good, he said,
but I want you to just see how songs go,
you know. And he said, so do you guys have
a manager? So I said no, we want to manage.

(10:44):
He said, well, I'm gonna manage you. And boy, that
was just so I went out and we go out
and I tell the group and everybody's all happy, he's
gonna manage this and all that. So I go on
and I started listening to the radio, like he said,
to find out how songs go. The the continuity and
now they tie in together and all that. So I
could learn how to write like that. He started to
mentor me on my songwriter and everything, and so there

(11:08):
was no more At the time. I wrote a song
called got a Job in answer to a group called
the Silhouettes. They had a song called get a Job,
which was the number one record in the world at
that time, you know. So they're on Dick Clark one
day and they're getting a gold record from Dick Clark
for get a Job. And I see them. I'm looking
at it, and I'm thinking to myself, get a Job.
I'm gonna write got a Job. So I wrote the

(11:31):
song got a Job, Man, and I went down to
Barry's office where he was and interrupted him in a meeting,
all that I got it, man, I got it, because
he said, when you get it, come to me. So
I said, I got it. I got it. So I
sang it to him and he loved it, you know.
So he recorded us, and he put us on in
records out of New York, you know, because there was
no Motown, so we weren't in label out of New York,

(11:52):
and Got a Job turned out to be like a
hit for us, man, because there were three charts at
the time, four actually, but the three that were the
main charts were what they call the pop charts. Were
all the white artists are on that chart, you know.
And then they had the Rhythm and Blue chart, you know,
we're all the black artists were. And then they had
the classical chart, you know. So anyway, got a Job

(12:14):
goes to number five on the Rhythm of Blues chart,
so we know, okay, this is a hit man, it's
gotta be. So we had got a Job and another
song which was the other side of got a Job,
which is a song we had sung at that audition
in a song called My Mama and told me that
was on the flip side of got a Job. And

(12:34):
then we had another forty five with in Rerecords out
of New York and a song called I Cry, a
song called I Need some Money, not the one by
Barret Strong art Strong was money That's what I want.
But anyway, so we had those four sides with them.
Now we know got a Job. So he consists in

(12:55):
the top five that those four sides with them, and
come time to pay the royalties, which very still has this,
but come time to pay the royalties, this guy sent
us a check for foresights for the writing royalties, the
producers royalties, the for the UH, the publishing royalties, and
the group royalties. He sent us a check for those

(13:16):
four sizes for three dollars and nineteen cents for you know.
So I guess that was the start that broke to
camel's back for Barry because he started, he was really
upse three dollar ninety cent. So he borrowed eight hundred
dollars from his family and started Motown Man. And I
think that was the straw that broke the camel's back
that started him that wanted him to start his own record.

(13:36):
Where I thank George Goldener for that, cause he's got
all in records. So because that made Berry start Motown Man,
and UH liked, the rest is history. But I tell
everybody was a godday because he didn't have to be
there that day we went to audition man. He did
not have to be there that day, or we didn't
have to go on a day when he he was
there just to turn in some new songs to Jackie Wilson.
In fact, he had lonely tear drops with him that day,

(13:58):
you know, t t to to turne into Jackie Wilson.
So he was just there for that purpose. But he
didn't have to be there the day that we came,
and we didn't have to go the day that he
was gonna be there. Attorney knows himself. So I tell
everybody was God date because it just started a new
life for me, you know, yeah, yeah, meeting him like
that by chance like that, and then for him to

(14:19):
you know, take an interest in me and take an
interest in our group, and then to start Moti home
and you.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Know, it's it's really hard to believe. And there's so
many there's so many moments in that story where it
just maybe couldn't have happened or what you know, or
any other way, you know, just one thing you got
there slightly laid or yeah, after the break, we'll be
back with more from Smokey Robinson. Now all that talent,

(14:49):
but you you as well included an amazing, gorgeous, beautiful voice.
I mean, I'll never forget go with my wife about
maybe five years maybe twenty nineteen to go see you
at the Greek It was a little maybe was a
year earlier, and I'll never forget you finished ooh baby baby.
And I've i never seen an ovation that long or

(15:12):
that people and I saw Barry Gordy was like, right
over this way, I'm looking at Barry Gordon, I'm looking
at you and I'm tripping out. I'm like, that's Barry Gordy,
that's Smokey Robinson. You finished your baby, Baby, and it
was like a five minute standing over you. It's incredible.
I mean to this day, still an incredible voice. But
the writing talent that you had, you know, and then

(15:32):
to be a producer too, you know, you had so
much Like what what was it about music for you
that made you want to have all of those pieces?

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Nothing made me want to have them. I guess it's
just a part of what happened for me, man, because
you know, like I said, after I met Barry and
he started to mentor me on my songwriting, and I
started to really concentrate on what he said about making
a song be a short story, something that somebody can
relate to all the way through and all that you know.

(16:06):
And so even today, man, when I said write, so
I want to write a song, I really want to
write a song. I hope it's going to be a hit.
I hope that, you know, when I record it on
myself or someone else, it's going to be a hit.
But it might not be. But if it's a song,
it's got a chance to live on for ten more
years and somebody can pick it up and say, hey,

(16:27):
I like this song and record it and it could
be hit if it's a song. So I always go
in with the idea that I'm going to write a
song first. That's my first goal. Let me write a
song before I ben going to the studio, and I'll
get in the studio man, and change it, you know,
and change something. Because actually that's how I was raised. Barry,
Like I said, bar Goodie is a wonderful teacher. Man.

(16:49):
He taught us so well. We just had his ninety
fifth birthday party, not to know, and all the artists
who and all the writers and producers who are still
alive were there and we got up and we talked
about him, and they all said the same thing. He's
a great teacher. He taught us, he groomed us, he
you know, he did all those things for us and everything.
You know, it's a great thing to have a guy

(17:10):
like him who has that interest in young people. But
we had the opportunity to do our works and to
go into the studio and record and and and to
uh play off of each other. We were. He very
created a sign that he had in the benning in

(17:32):
the lobby of HISSEO says, competition breeds success. So he
wanted us to compete with it that we were fierce
competitors man against each other, because we had we had
a policy in Motown whereas all the writers and all
the producers had access to all of the artists. It
wasn't like you know, say, for instance, I got to

(17:54):
hit record on the Temptations and automatically I was gonna
get that next Temptation record because I had It wasn't
like that, man. Everybody had access to all the artists,
and if they liked your song, you were free to
record it on them. And we had money morning meetings
where only the producers and writers were allowed in. Nobody
else from the company was allowed in those meetings. And

(18:16):
we sat there and we critiqued each other's music to
try to make it better. Even though we were competing
against each other, we were there trying. Man. I'll use
this as an example. My biggest competition as a producer
foreign artists was the Temptations against Norman Woodfield and barred strong.

(18:37):
Norman Whitfield could be in the studio recording a song
on the Temptation, and we hung out at Hitsfield.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Man.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
His field was not just our workplace. It was our
hanging place. When you got back in off the road.
If you had been on the road or somewhere and
you got back in, the first thing you did was
to go home, change your clothes and go to Hitsfield. Why,
because everybody's over there. That's where we hung out. We
did everything there, man. We played games, we want to
each other's homes. We weren't just stablemates artists that you

(19:05):
knew each other from the same record company and we see, hey, man,
how you doing now? We hung out every day almost
We went to each other's homes. We had picnics, we
had outings, We went to the movies together the guys.
Nowadays or in the last few years, it had turned
to golf. But back in those days we bowld everybody

(19:26):
bold and well, all the guys we bowled every But
we did everything together, man, And it was just a wonderful,
wonderful place to be, and especially being a kid growing
up in Detroit and not thinking that any of this
was ever going to be possible, you know, And to
see all these people come along and be mentored by

(19:48):
Barry Gordy into and to have but more time to
become what it has become internationally is still unbelievable to me.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Man.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
You know, Barry Goldy is my best friend, and I
just was at this house a couple of days ago,
and we talk about that all the time. How neither
one of us thought that. He didn't think it, you know,
he did not think that it was going to be
what it has become. He just was tired of people
not paying him. He wanted to start his own thing,

(20:22):
thank god. But yeah, so we had that kind of
that kind of place, man, and we had and we
still have for those of us who were still alive.
We still celebrate the Motown family because we were family.
We weren't just a record company. We were family, man,
and we had the Motown family. So, like I said,
we were at his ninety fifth birthday party, man, and

(20:44):
everybody got up and said basically the same things, how
he was our mentor and our teacher, and he's still
going strong. To man, he's ninety five, but he's only
about sixty.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Only about sixty.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
That's amazing. Can we go back to the there's so
much there, But can we go back to the competition,
the friendly competition, or.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Maybe not the found Yeah, like I said, you know
no more. It could be in this recording something on
the Temptation. I'm at the studio and he said, he's
smoke coming in. Man, I want you to sing ooh,
I want you to stump your feet, to clap your
hands or something like that. And I would go do it,
and he would do the same thing for me, even
though we were competing against this record for the Temptations,
you know. So that's just the way it was. We

(21:26):
all did that for each other. I you know, when
I look back, and it's kind of like unbelievable that
we had that kind of relationship with each other and
and all of us had it, and we, like I said,
we were just a family. And that's rare.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Although you even had some competition with Barry when it
comes to songwriting with the Temptation with Barry Gordy.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, well Barry, we had a competition
with Barry Gordy first before Norman we really even came
to Motown, and I had known Melvin who was the
bass singer and Otis who was the founder of the
group since high school, because we used to have.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Group battles man, and they would called the Distance at
that time, and we were called the Five Chimes, you know.
And we used to have group battles all the groups
in the neighborhood. And so we had group battles man
singing for the girls who who you know, and we'd
had them at the recreation center and at school and
on the street corner wherever we saw some girls, we

(22:31):
had group battles, you know. And the group at that
time they were called the Four Aims, but they turned
out to be the Four Tops. And you knew if
the Four Aims were coming the best you were going
to get his second place, you know what I'm saying,
because they were you know, so you knew that if
they're coming, just shoot for second place the first place

(22:53):
sided the question. But we had those battles like that, man,
And so I had known Otis and Melbourne from that
from before they came over. And when they came to
audition for us, man, everybody loved them. And then we
signed them and they had to think of a name
for themselves and they came up with the name of

(23:15):
the Temptations, but very and I used to battle over
who was gonna get the first record out on them.
And I actually had the first record out on them,
a song called I Want to Love I Can See,
and I beat him out on that, you know. But
you know, he did a lot of good records on them.
And at first when they came over, they had like

(23:36):
three lead singers and everybody used Paul Williams, who who
was the basically lead singer for them, you know. But
Eddie Kendricks was in that group.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
And.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Eventually David Ruffin was in that group, you know. So anyway,
we all were trying to get hits on them and
the Miracles, and I had gone on the road and
I told Tim, I said, I'm gonna get a hit
for y'all, you know, and the Temptations. If I brought
David and Eddie and Melvin and Otis and Paul in

(24:10):
this room right here, right now, and they were still
alive and say, hey man, sing ooh, And they said, ooh.
They could shake this room, that's how close and tight
they were. And Melverne was way down on the bottom
and Eddie was way up on the top and everybody
was in between them, and they were just their harmony
was I used to I used to call them five

(24:30):
deacons because they had that gospel sound to me. You know,
I call them five deacons. You know, this as our
friendly thing. So I wanted to write something for them
where that harmony was displayed. Okay, so the miracle's not
on the road and on the way back one day,
you know, we there were three of us who drove,
and so after we got about two hundred miles off

(24:50):
from Detroit, it was my turn to drive again. So
everybody else was asleep, and I'm driving the car and
I'm thinking, what can I write for the Temptations that's
gonna display that harmony? And you know, it's like I said,
I'm not a songwriter who needs to go to the
mountains or to the desert for two months and isolated

(25:11):
myself so that I can write and it just happens
for me, man, and just have something. I'm in the
car and I started to hum something that I thought
would beat them singing. Got a smile so right, and
I could hear them singing that, and so I started
to write the way you do the things you do
in the car wow and got back man. And I

(25:34):
told Barry, I said, man, I got a hit for
the Temptations. I got it. He said, you got it,
you got He said it is too late. I said,
what you mean, I'm too late? He said, I already
record a hit on them, and it's coming out next week.
It's all pressed up. Everything is coming out next week.
So I said, man, I say, you making a mistake.
I said, I got a real hit for him. Me said,
master real here too, Man, I say, so, we just
to have contests. Man. We would go out and stop

(25:58):
cars in front of Hitzel, say hey, hey, you want
to heed some new motile music that you never heard. Yeah,
they come in. We give them a pencil, beats of
paper and play five songs on right down to wats
you like the best, or get the people from around
the office and right down the world you like the best?
You know? So I told him, I said, Man, I said,
I'm telling you I got a real smash it for them.

(26:18):
He said, mine is a real smash hit. Man. I said, well,
I tell you what, Man, give me two days to
record my record. He said, okay, Man, if you think
you that I'm gonna give you two days, man, he said,
but I'm telling you you can't beat my record. Man.
I said, okay, cool, So two days. I had two
days to record the Way You Do Things You Do?
And I did, and uh so we had this contest.

(26:40):
We invited some people from off the streets. We invited
some people from around in the officers, lectaires and people
like that, and uh we played these two records. They
played his record first and everybody was jamming. Man, they oh,
this is a great record. But it was a kind
of slow move, but it was a great record. I
think it was uh dream come true or something. I
forgot the name of it. But anyway, I'm so I'm

(27:01):
sitting there and I'm worried now because we got this
one hundred dollars beat me and him, you know. And
uh so then they put on the way you do
the Things you do and it starts don dum to
don don to dunk. Everybody jumps up, starts dancing, and

(27:21):
his record got one vote, never was his, you know.
So I teach him about that all the time. He
had one vote and never was his. So but that
was what started the temptations to Roland, and I used
Eddie Kendrick's voice to sing the basic lead for that song.
So everybody at the company, all the writers and producers,
they jumped on the Temptations bandwagon and they started using

(27:44):
Eddie to sing everything. You know, Eddie was singing, Girl,
why you want to make Me blue? All your everybody
was using Eddie then, you know, because so I said, Okay,
that's cool with me because David and Paula in that group.
So I'm gonna write something sweet for David brotherend to
sing because David had a voice she had that he
was like him him. I used to tell him in

(28:05):
Teddy Pendergrad, y'all scared of chicks into loving you because
well that voice like that. But they were really singing
and they could really sing, you know. So I knew
that David was there, and I said, I'm gonna write
something sweet for him to sing to the girls. And
so I wrote My Girl for David to sing to

(28:25):
the girls. I had no idea that My Girl was
gonna do well. It has done. Man. My Girl for
me as a songwriter has become like my international anthem
or something. We go. We're preparing an overseas jump now
for June, but we go to places in Europe and

(28:46):
all places where a lot of places they don't even
speak English, man, And sixty percent of the people in
that audience don't even speak English. Okay, but we play
my Girl in our live concerts, and as soon as
they hear boom boom boom, boom, boom boom, they know
what's gonna happen. They sing it verbatim. They don't even
speak English and they sing it verbatim. So now I

(29:08):
knew My Girl was a good song, I thought, But
I had no idea there was gonna be what it is,
you know. And so anyway I recorded My Girl with
David and anybody the band ways David, but but that,
but that's what That's how Barry and I started off

(29:28):
competing for the Temptations, you know, and I beat it.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Is it true? The way you do the things you
do was a bit influenced by you because you were
listening to a lot of Curtis Mainfield at the time
and impressions. Is that accurate?

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Well, I'm sure it was, man, because Curtis and maybe
Curtis and in the Impressions, Man, they had some of
the tightest harmony that you ever wanted to hear, you know,
and uh yeah, they had those songs like that, like
It's all right and all those songs like that. Yeah,
I'm sure that that was that was influential because I
knew the Temptations had that kind of sound, they had
that kind of harmony they you know, and never once

(30:05):
have I ever when I was recording the Temptations made
up a background vocal for them. I'm teaching the lead
whatever I want to lead to learn and all, and
They're over in the corner making a background as I'm
showing the lead what he's doing, you know, And there
are parts of my girl. Man, they're just as popular
as a leader. Hey, hey, hey, and all this stuff
like that. They So Temptation made up all that stuff,

(30:25):
you know, talking about micro they made up all that.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
So was that true of all artists you were working with,
that you gave them some sort of some level of
artistic freedom too, or was that he was it case
by case?

Speaker 2 (30:37):
It was case by case, man, Okay, you knew with them,
you could, Yeah, knew with them, Michael, they just had
leeway to do whatever it was because they were gonna
come up with some great you know. So all the
songs I have recorded on them. I never made up
a background over that. They just made up all their
own background except for the way you do things you do,
which I had them all singing it together. You know.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
After this flast break, will be back with the rest
of my conversation with Smokey Robinson. How did you learn
to be a producer?

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Well, you know, surprisingly enough, Barry allowed me. He kind
of taught me that as Motown was just the beginning,
and he allowed me to go in and produce records
on the Miracles on Me, just the Miracles on Me
at first, but then he saw I could do it,
so he started to assign people to me. Man, when

(31:29):
Tim came, he assigned me to do an album on them,
and Mary Wells and Marvin Gaye. And when they came,
you know, he say, man, I want you to write
some stuff for them. So I did, and that's how
I started to write for everyone. But he allowed me
to produce the records. Eventually, thanked god, Stevie started producing
it and Marvin started producing their own stuff, thank god.

(31:51):
But you know, I was the first artist that was
allowed to do that.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Now, I mean thank God, but also thank God you
were there too, because I mean, I mean, you gave
Marvin some incredible songs and some incredible hits.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
You know, Marvin was my brother.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Man.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Marvin was one of the best singers I think ever
in life. You know, Marvin was a guy. Uh, Marvin
IM a very very very close man. You know. Marvin
lived righting around the corner from me. Uh and uh
we were together almost every day of our lives doing something,
you know, playing some basketball or some golf or you know,
just hanging out. We were together all the time. So

(32:30):
Marvin was uh, he was a great singer.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Man.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
When he first came to Motown, he didn't want to
be Marvin Gay. He wanted to be Na King Cole
Frank Sinatra. That's how he came. He wanted to sing
that kind of stuff. And uh, how we became aware
of him is that. Uh do you do you know
who Harvey Few.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Was the Moon Moon Go Moon Gloves Mooos.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, so, uh, Man, I had known Harvey and idlyized
him since I was a kid growing up, cause we
in the hood. When Moonlose came up with a recordman,
you know, everybody got the Mooos record band, and the
Moonos always had those great backgrounds where if you sing
in a group, you learned the background before you've learned
the lead. Because they had those great back cool and
all that. But eventually Harvey came over to Motown, Man

(33:18):
and he he married one of Barry's sisters, Gwynn, and
he came over to Motown and he had you know,
he had hired a new singer for the moon Glows
because one of his guys had retired, and he hired
Marvin Gay. Marmon Gay was from Washington, d C. So
Harvey met him in d C. So he hired him
to take the place of the guy who had left.

(33:40):
And so we were having a Christmas party. We had
them every year at Christmas, and all the artists came,
everybody was there. You made sure you weren't on the
road at that time so you can come to the
Christmas party because they were great. And so Harvey bought
Marvin to the Christmas party and there's a we had
him in the Hissfield building and down in the studio.

(34:02):
People were all over the building, but down there everybody
was hanging out, mostly down in the studio where the
piano and the instruments and all that stuff like that.
Had set up. So Marvin goes over to the piano
and he sits down and the party's going on. He
starts to sing the Christmas song chest Nuts Roasty, and
everybody starts listening to him and starts going over and
surrounding the piano and he's playing and singing. He he

(34:22):
could really sing, so uh we we we signed him
up and he wanted to sing songs like that. His
first song that we released on him was mister Sandman,
Mister Samman, bring Me a Dream, because he wanted to
sing that kind of stuff. Didn't do anything. Uh eventually, uh.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
We did think it straight like that too, Like it
wasn't like, uh, it didn't sound like uh.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
It sounded like Marvin Gay singing mister sam Man. Man,
that's what it sounded like. Marmon Gakeys sing the phone
Book and you know what I'm saying, that's what it
sounded like. So anyway, uh, we our and our director
at the at the time, my first and our director
ever that very hired was a guy named Mickey Stevenson.
And Mickey was also a songwriter and a producer, and

(35:06):
so he got together with Marvin and say, man, if
you want to hit, we gotta do some different kind
of stuff. So he and Marvin wrote this song called
Stubborn cint of Fellow and recorded it. And that was
when Marvin started to be Marvin Gaye and the rest.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
You know.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Like I said, the Duke could sing anything. I work
with Marvin Man and Marvel was always late for everything.
Marvel was late for everything you talking about cpee time.
Marvin was late for everything, man. So I got to
the point where Marvin Man, so I was gonna record him.
Uh and session's gonna start at eight o'clock in the
evening out till Marven it's gonna start at six thirty.

(35:48):
You know, he would still be late. He would he
wouldn't get to nine anyway, small car, tell you man
a so and so happened. I said, okay, man, cool,
you know, but I knew that when he got there
and I showed him my song. I used to tell
him all the time. He marvenized my songs because he
do stuff vocally that I hadn't even thought of while

(36:10):
I was writing it. You know, he just come in
and just kill you know, marvinized my story. I didn't
care if he was late, you know, but he could
sing anything, man, one of the greatest voices of our time.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Did you did you have a relationship with Tammy Terrell too?

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yes, had a relationship with everybody there, man, because we
all had a relationship with each other. Tam Turell is
my baby, man. She was a sweetie pie. She was
a wonderful fun person. Tammy tell was you talk about fun.
She was just a fun woman. She just when she
when she came in, she brightened up the room, you
know what I mean. She was just a fun person.

(36:49):
She unfortunately had a brain tumor at a young age.
And you know, but yeah, Temmy, we all hung over.
Like I said, everybody knew each other. Man, her and
Marvin together, well, Marvin had his with all the girls
at Motown, basically Kim Weston, Diana Ross, you know, Tam Dbrell,

(37:12):
Valerie Simpson.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
I know you were like you say, really you were
type with everyone. But you and Marvin were really tight
as well, live near each other. When Tammy passed that,
there's stories of that really affected him.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Oh yeah, shook him up for a long time. Shook
him for a long time. He didn't even want to
sing with any of the other girls for a while
because he thought he was bad luck? Why are you
bad luck?

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Man?

Speaker 2 (37:38):
She had a brain to him. He didn't give it
to her. You had nothing to do with that, you know.
But he was he was, He was shook up for
a long time. They were very close.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
And how did you guys as friends as a label,
how did you guys handle, for instance, Marvin being in
a funk like that, you know, because I'm sure you
want to help him out, and I mean, I'm sure
you want him also to you know, use his gift.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Well, he wasn't in a funk to the point whereas
like he stopped recording for months at a time or so,
he didn't do that just personally, you know, he was
shook up. He just you see, I feel that way
about a lot of them, man, because when you're young,

(38:28):
you're a kid like that, and we were all kids together,
going up there together. The last thing you ever expect
is to see one of them dead, you know, think
you aren't even thinking about death or anything like that.
And I buried so many of them men, and it
just it's a shake up, you know, Yeah, it's a

(38:50):
shake up. Like I said, you know, I want to
read the past. Man. You know, she was my longest friend.
All the kids in our neighborhood, everybody was dead except
for Diana. So now Diana, it's my longest friend.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
And you guys still get in touch.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
I'm sure, right, yeah, you know, she's a I brought
her to Motown. She was my pet project that I
bought the Motown at first, you know, because she lived
right down the street. They moved to a place called
the Brewster of Projects after we started Motown, and she
called me, she said, smoke sh I got this group,
and I want you to hear us. Man, the Primates,

(39:27):
because the Temptations were the Primes. So the Primates, I
want you to hear us because we could sing. So
I said, come on auditioning. So I auditioned them and
Barry wouldn't let me sign them because they were still
in school. They were still in high school. They were
about to graduate, but they were still in high school.
And he said, man, he said, you know, we already
got Stevie. And when Stevie travels, he got to have

(39:48):
tutors and on entourage and all the people because he
have to do his homework on the road. And so
I don't want to sign another person. Like that or
another group. So I had to wait till they graduated
from high school to sign them. And they got signed
and they became Dying Rolls and the Supremes.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
It's unbelievable. Man, all you guys are so young.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
You mentioned Stevie, right, Stevie's there as young as can be.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, you know, I think about that now. I wasn't
thinking about that then, but I think about it now.
We were kids, man, we were just kids. My first marriage, man,
I got married when I was nineteen years old to
the girl who's in our group, Claudette, you know. And
she had been my girlfriend since I was fourteen, since
she got into group. You know. But when I was

(40:34):
nineteen and I thought I was a man. I thought
I was a man. Very started Motown. We were going there.
I was making five dollars a week. I was, you know,
working at Motown, making five hours a week. You know,
I thought I was a man. Man, And I look
back on that. That's funny. There's no way that one
of my kids had come to me when they were

(40:55):
nineteen and said, hey, Dad, I want to get married.
And I was said, okay, all right, this is a
good idea. Yeah, you know what I mean, man, But
heck I did it. But I look back. We were
all kids, man, We were just kids. But it was
a great place to be because it was all energy.
And like I said, we were kids and we were young,

(41:16):
and we all hung out together.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
And you know, would would you guys listen to music together?
Like if you'd go to Aretha's house, would you record?

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah? Yeah, we used to have talent shows before when
we were kids. I mean before I met Barry, and
I'm talking about when we were ten and eleven and
stuff like that. We had talent shows on Areta's back porch,
you know, and every time Aretha or Irma would win.
Irma was Aretha's sister, oldest sister. And but we used

(41:48):
to have talent shows and stuff like that. Man on
her back porch.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Unbelievable. Unbelievable because Barry was a little older than you guys.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yeah, Arry's actually ten years older than me.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
So were you the conduit for like the Deep the
Temptations coming to try out from Motown? And like you said,
you knew Diana from the neighborhood, like you were kind
of were the person who knew all the talent in
the neighborhood. Basically, Yeah, it seems to me. And so
you you know, Barry set up this great structure for
you guys to thrive in and to be this tutor,

(42:19):
but it seems like you were maybe maybe like the
A and R without being officially the an R.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
You know, well I did. I brought a few people in, man.
I brought a few people, and even after we got started. Man,
you know Gladys Knight and people like that, I brought
them in too, because Gladys had been my friends since
I was eighteen years old on the road, you know,
and she was with the Pips and we were out
there traveling on a road doing those one nighters and
stuff together and stuff. So I knew them. And when
they wanted to leave their current record company, I brought

(42:47):
them in the Motown Chuck Jackson, you know, Ashraton Simpson,
you know, and like I said, Diana Ross and I
didn't bring the Temptations, but I knew them before they
before they came over to audition. But yeah, yeah, a
lot of people, man. And like I said, Ron White
who was in the Miracles, brought Stevie also.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
He man, Yeah, you mentioned you have some tour dates
coming up in the spring. Yes, you have a Vegas residency. Yes,
how do you prepare for tour now versus then? You
know when you're on the road the gladys Knight and.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Well, well back then, basically, you know, like I said,
we were kids, man, So you know, you just get
in the car and there we go. We had caravans.
We didn't one night we were traveling on a tour bus
or anything like that. Everybody basically had their own individual cars.
They mean, seven cars going down a howay behind each other,
that's what That's what was going to go. We were
doing those tours. But I think that, uh, you know,

(43:49):
you're traveling around like that, and I just can't find
anything that gives me the same thing. I can't find.
I've tried, man, I tried retirement one time. When very
first moved Motown from Detroit to Last Angeles, I came

(44:10):
out to Los Angeles kicking and screaming because I didn't
think we should leave Detroit. I told Barry, Man, you know,
this is our home, it is our roots. We started here,
and you know, and we all grew up here, and
you know, they even called Detroit Motown. Now you know,
So why are you moving to LA? He said, because
LA is the entertainment capital of the world right now,

(44:31):
which it was said. We're gonna go out there. We're
gonna make some movies, do some TV specials. We're still
gonna be a record company. I'm gonna leave a skeleton
record thing here in Detroit, but our basic operation is
gonna be in LA. But we can do entertainment things.
We're gonna become an entertainment company, ladies things, the Blues
and you know, the Temptations, Diarroh specials and stuff like that.

(44:53):
So we got into all that stuff, but I came
out kicking the streaming man because I did not want
to move to Los Angeles from Detroit. Eventually I was.
I was glad that I did. But when I moved
out to Los Angeles, I retired from the Miracles, and
I I told him before I was gonna retire. My
first wife, Claudee, and I have been trying to have

(45:14):
a baby, and when my first son was born, finally
I wanted to spend time with him man And two
years after he was bore, my daughter was born. So
I wanted to spend time with my kids. Man and
the miracles, and I had done everything that the group
could possibly do two or three times. We've been all
over the world, you know, and I was tired, man.

(45:37):
So I told them, I said I'm gonna retire. They
laughed at me and oh yeah, yeah, okay, cool man,
you're gonna retire. That's good man. So then we were
having a Christmas party. Man. And this was in nineteen
sixty seven. We're having this Christmas party and Stevie comes

(45:57):
in and he comes to me. He says, smoke, he said, Man,
I I recorded this musical track, man, he said. It's
the bomb. He said, but I can't think of a
song to go with this. Man. I want you to
listen and see what you can come up with. So
I said, okay, man, I give it to me. So
he gave it to me. I took it home. I
put your tape on and it started off bom bom bomp.

(46:18):
Duh dun dun dun dunt.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
So I heard that.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
I said, Man, that's ringing Brothers. That's bombing Bailey right there.
So I'm gonna use this track to write something about
the circus. But I don't want to write about animals
or trapeze artists or anything like that. I wanna write
something personal for people. When I was in elementary school,
I had a social studies teacher who got named mister Smith.
He was German, and he told us the story of Paiachi.

(46:44):
Now to this day, while I'm talking to you right now,
I don't know if Poliacchi was real or just mythical.
But I thought about that and I said, I'm gonna
write this song about Polyiachi, but I'm gonna make it
personal because Palliacchi was the Italian clown that was the
star of the circus when he when the circus came
to town, people came to see Poliachi, mainly the animals

(47:05):
and all this stuff that was secondary to Poliachi. Paiacchi.
They loved him. They cheered him. They more and more
they cheered him, and then he would go back to
his dressing room and he would cry because he didn't
have that kind of adulation from a woman, from a
personal woman. He would cry about it. You know, So
someone right this about Payachi. Some are right. So that's

(47:26):
where Tears of a Clown came from. So Cheers of
a Clown comes out on an album in nineteen sixty seven,
in nineteen seventy, a girl who worked for Motown in
England was in the office and she was playing that
album in the office and a guy who ran our
office over there was a guy named Peter. So Peter

(47:47):
comes by get the story and he says, what's that
you're listening to? She said, Peter, we should release this
record over here because this is a hit, so we
should release it over here. I don't care what they're
doing in the States. We should release this over here.
So they put Tears of a Clown out in the
UK number one. Motown ain't never had number one record
in the UK ever yet until that point, you know,

(48:09):
and then it starts to blossom all over Europe. So
I had another record ready to come to go in
the in the United States here, so I said, I
told barrass I got to say. He said, no, no, no, man,
we put out Tears for Clown. So we put out
Terms with Cloud here in the States and Chisser Clown
to this moment, it's the biggest single record that I've
ever been associated with in my life. Really, okay, yeah,

(48:32):
Chisser Clown's I mean, you know, it's just so all
over the world, just as that was out, and so
the guys came to me and say, man, you can't
retire now because tis the clown's out and it's the
big suit we ever had, so my money's gonna go
up and all that stuff, which it did. So I said, okay, man,
I'm gona give you another year. So I did. I

(48:52):
gave and I said, but I want you all to
start looking for people because I'm retiring and I don't
have to. I don't have to help you look for
somebody to replace me because I'm not gonna be there
and y'all got to live with whoever this is, it's
gonna come in, you know. So they look for guys
all over the country and they finally found a guy
named Bill Griffin in Baltimore. So for the last few months,
about four or five months of my touring with the Miracles,

(49:14):
Bill traveled with us to see the show and to
learn it and blah blah blah blah blah. So So
then I retired and I moved out to Los Angeles.
And I moved out to Los Angeles, and when I
lived in Detroit, my vice president your office was to
induct new talent. And I love that cause I saw
talent all over the world and go to New York.
I say, okay, you can come wheel auditions you So

(49:35):
I loved doing that, you know. So we moved out
to Los Angeles and uh, I get out and Barry says, hey, man,
he says, you're my best friend. He says, So I'm
gonna change your office function. I said, okay, man, what
do you want me to do? He said, uh, I'm
gonna make you the financial office. You gonna sign all
the payroll checks. All the checks that come into the
company are gonna come through you, except for the payment

(49:57):
for the records. So that's what you're gonna do. So
I said, okay, man. So I'm ready for that. Man,
I'm ready for change. I'm not gonna be on stage.
And my thought at that point was to never ever
be on stage again in my life. I was never
going to record myself again. I might record some other
people and do some other songs and some other artists
and stuff like that. I wanted to do that, but

(50:17):
not for me. I'm gonna be at home with my
kids and my wife, and I'm gonna do my vice
presidential thing here at the office, and I'm gonna sign
these checks. So when I started to do that, my
name is William Robinson Junior. Okay, after my dad and
I was signing in the checks, William Robinson Junior, William

(50:37):
Robinson Junior. And after I had signed about a thousand checksmen,
I said, this is not going to work. So you
see my signature. Now, my signature is the room. It's
just like that. I had to change it at the
banks and everywhere, man, because you know when you're signing
like that. So in the first couple of years, man,
I was in vice presidential heaven, and then also my job,

(51:02):
he would have me to go to New York and
make deals with publishing companies, and do you know I
got I was in vice presidential heaven. But then I
started to hurt inside. I started to hurt inside. I
was missing something, and so it got to the point
whereas after about two and a half years, I was miserable.

(51:23):
My insights were miserable. But I'm smiling on outside. It's
like tracking my tears and stuff like that. I'm smiling
on U because I don't want Barr to think, Okay,
I can't handle this. I let him down. I don't
want claud it to think. Okay, I don't want to
be at home with her the kids. So I'm just miserable. Man,
And I am so miserable. Man, I go in. So

(51:44):
one day, after about three years, Man Barry came to
my office. He say, Man, I want you to do
something for me. I said, okay, Man, what you want
me to do? He said, uh, sit down for saying,
let's talk. I want you. I need to do something
for me. Something. He's gonna tell me some corporate I
gotta have a meeting with so ands on stay sets,
I got to go to this place and so he said,
I need to do something. I said, what do you

(52:04):
need me to do? Man? He said, I don't. I
can't use profanity on this interview. I can. I can
say verbat him, what do you say? Okay verbatim? So
he sat down. He said, I want you to get
yourself a band and going to the studio make a record.
I want you to get the fuck out of here.
I said, what did you say to me?

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Man?

Speaker 2 (52:23):
He said, you heard me?

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Man?

Speaker 2 (52:25):
I said, no, I didn't hear you. I said, what
did you say to me? Man? He said, I want
you to get yourself a band. You go on the
studio and make a record, and I want you to
get the fuck out of here. I said, what are
you talking about?

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Man?

Speaker 2 (52:36):
I said, you don't think I'm doing a good He said, no,
I ain't about that. Man. He says you're miserable, he said.
I said, you coming in every day and you're miserable.
You're my best friend. I know when you're miserable. Man.
You can't hide at you from me. So I know
you're miserable. So when I say you're miserable, it makes
me miserable. So I need you to get the fuck
out of my face. So I just hugged him. I

(52:59):
was so happy. I just hugged him. And so that
was my best friend peeping me. Man, Wow, he peeped me,
he saw.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
It fills me up right now. I don't know, but
it was such a oh. Anyway, I went home. I
was very very happy, and Claude said, well, what you
so have? I said, Well, I told her what happened.
She said, I agree with him. Wow, you know wow.
So I said, Okay, I've always considered myself to be

(53:30):
a quiet singer, but I'm gonna go back. Man, I'm
gonna take show business by Storm, and.

Speaker 4 (53:37):
I thought about what I just said. I said, we
made a quiet Storm. It's a great idea. So piano,
that's how that comes about. I wonder to piano, start
to write a quiet storm, man, you know.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
And my youngest sister who was actually fourteen when I
was born, but she was a great lyricist man. And
so I started the song and I was gonna do
this whole album now. I'm gonna do a whole album
now because I'm going back to show business. So I'm
working on that. When I took it to her and
I say, baby, finish this song up, because this is
gonna be the title cut for my So she finish up,
and I recorded it and recorded a Quiet Storm, and

(54:14):
it was my debut back into show business, and it
became something that I had no inkling that it was
going to become.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I had.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
I was just writing something to come back into show business.
I wasn't thinking about what it was going to do.
And then there was a young man who was a
disc jockey at night disc jockey in Washington, d C.
Named Melbourn Lindsay, and he had a show that came
on in the evening. His show started probably about nine
o'clock at night and went through midnight and he started

(54:42):
he named his show the Quiet Storm. Okay, radio stations
all over the country started to have a Quiet Storm format.
Now I'm not thinking that this is going to happen, man,
you know, I'm just writing a song to come back
into show business. But it has become a radio format.

(55:03):
And this year we're celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the
debut of A Quiet Storm. Wow, and our tour this
year is going to be called the Quiet Storm Tour Beautiful.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
So dude, it's it's amazing the penchant for again. You wanna,
you want to you want to get into show business.
You meet Barry Gordy, and then you this whole company
gets created around it, this whole ecosystem that lifts up
you and Barry and so many other people, and then
it's I want to get back into show business, you right,
A Quiet Storm, which not only is like an incredible

(55:38):
entree back into show business, but creates this whole other
radio format, Like you're saying, almost the whole of the
genre within R and B music for other people that
people realize that, oh I like this vibe, And there's
compilation see these now there quiet storm and you know,
it's just so this that sort of knack in your
life of these sort of things that are it's it's

(56:01):
almost like, you know, similar maybe to like what's going
on the way Marvin exists. It's a it's a it's
a thing that was probably very personal to him, Yeah,
but just resonates out so widely that it's just, you know,
it's so that's it. Whatever was happening with you guys

(56:23):
at Motown and Detroit. Even Aretha, who wasn't part of
Motown but just.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Her dad, would not gonna come. Man. I talked to
her about coming, and he felt like we were not
strong enough for her. He wanted her to be with
Columbia and Capitol and all those people like that where
she was at first she was with Columbia and they
had her singing standards of what they call the Great
American Songbook, because Aretha is one of those people. She
could sing anything. Aretha did the most amazing thing that

(56:50):
I think I've ever seen a singer do. We were
having the Grammys one year, and I forgot what year
it was, but Aretha was going to get something there,
you know, And so Pavaratti was supposed to come and
sing this song in Italian and he was going to
be on the Grammys, and he got sick, and the
producer came to a Reatha and say, hey, Aretha, Papa

(57:12):
Latti is sick. We need somebody to sing this song.
Aretha goes and takes the song and listens to Paparadatti
singing in the dressing room and learns it in the
dressing room in the dressing room and sings it.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Lable.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Yeah, she was, you know, she's Aretha man. But yeah.
So he wanted her to be with Columbia and she
was with them and she sang no songs, but nothing
was happening. And uh then I think it was probably
Jerry Wexler or something like that. They approached her and said, hey,
you know, we could do something for you, and she

(57:52):
she said, man, She asked me, she smokes you, what
you think I should do? I said, I think you
should go over there and be Aretha, So I think
you should do so she did.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Was there any part of you that thought though, like, well,
wait a second, maybe you could go to Atlantic, but
maybe come to come?

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Well, yeah, I said, you know, I want you to come.
Her dad wouldn't litter because he didn't think we were
strong enough. Yeah, he didn't think we were established enough.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
But you know, everything's what it's supposed to be. But
that would have been pretty incredible.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
That would have been. But then you know, we didn't
have her, but we had Gladys.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Yeah. Yeah, but you guys have more talent than you could.
I mean, come on, everything about people like Bobby Taylor
and uh, well Bobby Tailing the Vancouver's like, you know
that's there, and it's like, guess he's an incredible singer.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Bobby Taylor was the one who brought the Jackson five
to Motown. Man, is that true? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:45):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Yeah, Bobby Taylor bought them. You know, they they they
they first started to tour with Diana Ross. So I
think at first people gave her credit for bringing them there.
But Bobby Taylor about the Jackson five, man, and uh
he was working with them. And people asked me, what
is one of my fondest memories about Michael Okay, when
Michael first came to audition for at Barry's house, when

(59:08):
the Jackson five came, he was so incredible to me.
Here's this little dude. Man, he's about this toy. He's
ten years old, and that day I dubbed him James
Wilson because he was a cross between James Brown and

(59:28):
Jackie Wilson at ten years old, I mean, dancing his
little ass off, you know, and singing and just a
bundle of talent. Always thought his life was so paradoxical
because when he was a kid, he was a man,
and when he was a man, he was a kid,
you know. But he was just dynamic and people said, well,

(59:50):
what do you remember? I remember that. And then Bobby
Taylor and I he used to pretty golf together all
the time, you know, So we started taking Michael to
the golf course with He'd be on the cart wood us.
Michael didn't had never even seen a golf club. The
first time he went out the Woodson, he's telling us
how to play golf. You know. Love that. You know

(01:00:11):
you're in a badge of you Why you hit your
ball over there like that you're supposed to hit the ball.
But he was a cute little guy. But I love
that memory. But yeah, he was. He changed the face
of show business. Michael Jackson changed the look of show business.
You know, I look at him, and I look at

(01:00:33):
he was such a bundle of talent. Like I said,
Michael watched everybody. We'd be doing those shows, and Michael
be standing in the wings and he watched everybody. He
idolized the dancing and the stuff of Jackie Wilson and
Fred Astaire and James Brown and those people like that,
and he worked his dancing skills like that. You know,

(01:00:56):
Like I said, I could even understand him doing James
Brown and Jackie Wilson. But Fred Astaire, the Nicholas Brothers,
how do you even know about them? You know what
I mean? When Michael did the moonwalk on the on
the on the on the Motown twenty fifth anniversaries and
people saying to do it, Oh, it's a fantastic mikeel

(01:01:16):
got the moonwalk from the Nicholas Brothers. Was a movie
called Stormy Weatherable. You know, they did that in Stormy
Weather back. Lena Horn was the star of that movie.
So you know how long ago they were nineteen twenty
something they're doing the moonwalk, you know. But yeah, but
Michael was just an incredible talent man, And like I said,
he'd be dancing with those he'd have fifteen dancers who

(01:01:39):
had been dancing since they were five years old. There
was their profession. They're professional dancers and they're dancing alongside
of him, and he's out dancing all of them. It's incredible.
Oh man, incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Well, Smoky, I'm excited to see you back on tour.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I'm excited to go. We've been off for a minute now.
So as they say, I'm rid, well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Break I appreciate talking, thank you, thank you, very fasher man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
I appreciate it. Incredible, honor, my blessure, bib cool.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
All right, Happy birthday to the great Smokey Robinson. You
can hear a playlist of all of our favorite tracks
of his and the episode description or by visiting Broken
Record podcast dot com and be sure to follow us
on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can follow
us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced

(01:02:29):
and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric
Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken
Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love
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(01:02:52):
Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts, subscriptions, and if
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review us on your podcast at our theme music's by
Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.