August 23, 2024 • 16 mins
Artist, musician and writer Audrey Flack shares her firsthand accounts of the downtown New York City art scene in the mid-twentieth-century and a song she and her band, The History of Art, wrote about Jackson Pollock.
Flack passed away in June. For more about her life, see “Audrey Flack, Creator of Vibrant Photorealist Art, Dies at 93.”
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. Hi, everyone, it's Katie here. You're about to hear
a bonus episode interview with the artist Audrey Flack, who
we spoke to at the very beginning of this series
in episode one. We had such fun recording with her.
(00:36):
Audrey is a life force. But sadly, a few months
after we launched Death of an Artist, Audrey's studio manager
contacted me to tell me that she had passed away
at the age of ninety three in Southampton, New York.
Audrey lived an incredible life and I feel so lucky
to have spent time with her and honored that I
(00:59):
can share some of her memories from the art scene
with you today. Okay, so Audrey, please, can you introduce yourself?
You are and what do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well? I don't want to do that. You should do that.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Okay, let's leave that.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
You know you should say, here's Audrey flat and she's
blah blah blah, and she's an ancient person.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
This is Audrey Flack, and this bonus episode is a
conversation we had when my producer, Clem Hitchcock, and I
went to visit her in New York. Her Upper West
Side home slash studio was filled with her photorealist paintings
and sculptures of ancient women, from Madea to Meducer. You've
(01:46):
been hearing snippets of our conversation throughout the show. It
was one of my favorite interviews that we did. In fact,
after we finished, I just wanted to keep hanging out
with her, and there's so much of her story we
couldn't fit in. So that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Spend a bit more time in the extraordinary world of
Audrey Flack and the downtown art scene from the mid
twentieth century.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
What was it like the scene? It was so exciting,
it was throwing. You knew you were part of something,
and it was very pure.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Flack has been an artist for seven decades encounting. She's
a writer too, and just released her brilliant new memoir
with Darkness Came Stars. And she's a musician. She plays
banjo and lead vocals in a band called Audrey Flack
and the History of Art Band. More on that later,
(02:44):
but let's start at the beginning. Audrey Flack was born
in May nineteen thirty one.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
It came from a very bourgeois family, very middle class,
and we were Jewish.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
In nineteen forty eight, she enrolled in an art school
called Cooper Union.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Cooper Union was in the heart of abstract expressionist territory
Eighth Street and Astro Place, so I was right there,
heart of this hurricane.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Abstract Expressionism, or ABBEX for short, is a term loosely
applied to a group of artists working in New York
in the nineteen forties and fifties. Lee Krasner, Jackson Pollock,
Helen Frankenhaler, William Da Kooning, Grace Hartigan, and Audrey was
one of the young artists on the scene.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
It's interesting realism was frowned upon, it was looked down
as something lesser. From the moment I hit Cooper, that
was abex. The whole world was abex, The whole downtown
was abex. And people were coming over from Europe to
(03:55):
be around Eighth Street, tenth Street, ninth Street, right where
Cooper was.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
These artists were part of a community. They put on
shows together, talked about the future of art, and last
but not least, they drank together.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You know, I would have wine, but they were drinking scotch,
little little shots of scotch with a beer chaser. So
the Scotch would go down in one gulp, and then
the beer and then they put a lemon or something
in it. Sometimes I put on a good show, but
(04:31):
it wasn't my style.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Audrey told us that there were two places that the
abstract expressionists all went to hang out. First, the Waldorf Cafeteria.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It was the most gloomy, awful decrepit. You know, you
look like you were embombed if you went in there.
But we would go there and you could have a
cup of water and put ketchup in it and that
was your tomato soup. You could save money. And that
was a few blocks from the Cedar.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
The Cedar was the hard drinking tavern where the artists
would have raucous debates about art and where as we
learned in episode one, Audrey first met Jackson.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
The Seedo was, you know, the place that everybody went smoky, crowded.
In the front there were cubicles, little seats with where
people could sit and it was always jammed, and then
there was a bar with stools along the edge of
(05:36):
Jackson liked to sit towards the back.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Everyone was there. Artists tailed for their action like brushstrokes.
Joan Mitchell William Da Kooning, Franz Klein to name a few,
plus writers Jack Carrouac and Alan Ginsburg stopped by.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
When Jackson and billdy Cooney and Franz kleinb showed up
all you know, one at a time, but three of
them were there. There was like a hush. I mean,
everybody knew that you were in the presence of greatness.
It was like a jack It was like, wow, they're here,
(06:12):
you know, and then arguments would break out. Sometimes people
would shove and push. It was scary for a girl,
you know, mind her, I'm like eighteen. It was male dominated,
there was no doubt about it. It was an old
(06:34):
boys club.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I've heard descriptions like this before. Lee Krasner once said
it was where the women were treated like cattle. Most
women artists avoided it. But it wasn't just the cedar
that was like this. The whole art scene was very
male in its vibe. But of course there were women
at the heart of it. Audrey knew them all and
told me some great stories.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
On the scene was John Mitchell, who I thought it
was some absolutely marvelous artist.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Born in Chicago a few years before Audrey. Joan Mitchell
was known for her lossal canvases full of energy, action
and dynamism. She arrived in New York at the end
of the nineteen forties, where she remained for a decade
before settling in France. Unlike many other Abbe's artists, Mitchell
(07:24):
looked back to the nineteenth century French painters, and her
spectacular canvases often reflect the palette of the likes of
Claude Monnet. To me, her greatest strength was transforming oil
paint into gusts of light and movement.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I loved her work. I think she's one of the
best artists, and I thought so.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Then then there was Grace Hartigan.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Grace and I became good friends.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It was her work The Persian Jacket that looked back
to the Spanish Old Masters. She used cheap industrial brushes
for her bold, sensuous strokes.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Elaine dy Kooning, who was absolutely brilliant, smoked like a
chimney and drank or so.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Elaine was also one of the first people to write
about these artists in the publication Arn't News. Although working
in an abstract vein, she was famed for her portraits,
notably of sports stars and politicians, including John f Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Oh Helen frank Nzaler, who did not go to the bar.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Frankenhaler pioneered what is known as color field painting. Instead
of using action like gestures like the other Abex painters,
she developed a technique called soak stain. She put the
canvas on the floor, thin down the paint and let
it glide over. The results were multi layered pools of
spontaneous organic forms.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
These women felt that they had to be as tough
as the men, and tougher than the men to survive,
and they adopted male behavior. They suffered. Who else whom
I leaning out? Oh?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Lee?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Of course Lee didn't go to the bar.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So tell us about Lee Krasner. I mean, what do
people think of her? What was her reputation? What was
her involvement?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, she was like the Diane. Lee was in love
with Jackson. One of the things that I was always
almost shocked by is when they got the house, there
was a barn on the property and you went into
it because that was Jackson's studio. Right, did you see
where Lee painted at first? Weren't you shocked? Yes, you're answering.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yes, I visited last year and it was worlds away
from Jackson's vast studio in the barn.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I wouldn't have done that. You wouldn't have done that.
You have to have enough self respect us an artist,
and she was already an established artist, more so than he,
And so she paints in this tiny little bedroom upstairs.
My god, you know it was a place to sleep,
(10:15):
even with a single bed, not even a king sized
bed would fit in it.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Can you talk to us about Jackson's reputation and also
your encounters with him and what he was like.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I think about him all the time and I try
to reevaluate those times why his work was great? Was
his work great? No, Jackson, when he starts dripping, is
no longer a painter. He's not painting a painting. He's
(10:50):
not dealing with space spacial relations in that way. You know,
he's not dealing with color relationship. He's not painting. He
becomes somebody who takes on an entire scope of the
world and makes galaxies. And when you enter a Pollock painting,
(11:14):
you're entering out of space. You're going through ropes and
nuts and tangles of galaxies. Something magical.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Do you talk to us a bit about Ruth Kligman
and who she was and how she got together with Jackson.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I'm working for a gallery and I'm curating a show.
Ruth claps up five floors in her high heeled shoes,
climply clop, you could hear her, and comes into my apartment.
And Ruth was unbelievably sexy. It just reeked, it reaked.
(11:58):
And she was wearing a ray on dress, polka dot dress,
I think. And she had thick black hair and sunglasses,
white rimmed sunglasses and red lipstiff. I mean, she was fent.
She looked like Elizabeth Taylor. She was really knockout. And
(12:22):
she came in and said she has an opportunity to
curate a show for this gallery, the Collector's Gallery, and
wanted to look on my work. And she began talking
about my work. It was amazing. She really had a
good eye and an ability to talk that mesmerized you,
(12:48):
which she must have done to Jackson. She really got
him and she was good. I would have bought my
work if I heard her talking. You know, how did
she meet Jackson? Okay, so then she didn't know much
about the art world. She was from New Jersey. Thinks
(13:09):
took one or two art classes. She didn't know very
much teach me, so I would teach her what's going on.
I said, well, there's a movement called abstract Expressionist. Who
are the artists? I told her? She said, in what order?
Who is the most important? I said, I think, I mean,
(13:32):
I love Dacooning, but I think I'd have to say
Jackson first, then Decooning, and then Franz Climb. So then
she said where do they meet? I said, Licita Bar,
where is it? Well, it's on Eleventh Street and University.
So I drew a map. I walked down the stairs
(13:54):
with her and I watched her, you know, I waved goodbye.
She wiggled her little cute body and waved goodbye with
the paper in her hand, and I told her where
Jackson sat. That was it.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I found it so incredible how Audrey has such vivid
memories of all those characters she knew more than half
a century ago. It really felt like being transported back
to that nineteen fifties scene in all its creative and
unhinged glory. She still thinks about their stories today and
has even written songs about some of them, including one
(14:35):
about Jackson.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I have a song you know my band. I wrote
a song about it. I had a band, History of
Art band, which was a feminist band, by the way.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Now to finish it off, here's Audrey Flack and the
History of Art Band playing their song Action Jackson Jackson power.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
That's my name. Abstract painting brought me fame. I sell
my paintings one by one, and I get drunk when
I am done. Oh Jackson, Action Jackson, Well, I'm ripped
(15:22):
by sneer Denis malnerin lands everywhere. It just doesn't matter.
I'm Action Jackson, jack Dripper. I get drunk when I
take Zipper.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Death of an Artist Krasner and Pollock is produced by
Pushkin Industries and samasdat Audio. Clem Hitchcock is our producer.
Story editing by Dasherlitz at Sina, Sophie Crane and Karen
Schakerji from Pushkin. The executive producer is Jacob Smith from
samasdaut Audio. The executive producers are Dasherlitz at Sina and
(15:58):
Joe Sykes. Sound design by Peregrine Andrews. Original scoring and
our theme were composed by Martin Ustwick. Fact checking by
Arthur Gompertz. Special thanks to Jacob Weisberg. I'm Katie Hessel,
Pushkin. Hi, everyone, it's Katie here. You're about to hear
a bonus episode interview with the artist Audrey Flack, who
we spoke to at the very beginning of this series
in episode one. We had such fun recording with her.
(00:36):
Audrey is a life force. But sadly, a few months
after we launched Death of an Artist, Audrey's studio manager
contacted me to tell me that she had passed away
at the age of ninety three in Southampton, New York.
Audrey lived an incredible life and I feel so lucky
to have spent time with her and honored that I
(00:59):
can share some of her memories from the art scene
with you today. Okay, so Audrey, please, can you introduce yourself?
You are and what do you do?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well? I don't want to do that. You should do that.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Okay, let's leave that.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
You know you should say, here's Audrey flat and she's
blah blah blah, and she's an ancient person.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
This is Audrey Flack, and this bonus episode is a
conversation we had when my producer, Clem Hitchcock, and I
went to visit her in New York. Her Upper West
Side home slash studio was filled with her photorealist paintings
and sculptures of ancient women, from Madea to Meducer. You've
(01:46):
been hearing snippets of our conversation throughout the show. It
was one of my favorite interviews that we did. In fact,
after we finished, I just wanted to keep hanging out
with her, and there's so much of her story we
couldn't fit in. So that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Spend a bit more time in the extraordinary world of
Audrey Flack and the downtown art scene from the mid
twentieth century.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
What was it like the scene? It was so exciting,
it was throwing. You knew you were part of something,
and it was very pure.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Flack has been an artist for seven decades encounting. She's
a writer too, and just released her brilliant new memoir
with Darkness Came Stars. And she's a musician. She plays
banjo and lead vocals in a band called Audrey Flack
and the History of Art Band. More on that later,
(02:44):
but let's start at the beginning. Audrey Flack was born
in May nineteen thirty one.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
It came from a very bourgeois family, very middle class,
and we were Jewish.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
In nineteen forty eight, she enrolled in an art school
called Cooper Union.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Cooper Union was in the heart of abstract expressionist territory
Eighth Street and Astro Place, so I was right there,
heart of this hurricane.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Abstract Expressionism, or ABBEX for short, is a term loosely
applied to a group of artists working in New York
in the nineteen forties and fifties. Lee Krasner, Jackson Pollock,
Helen Frankenhaler, William Da Kooning, Grace Hartigan, and Audrey was
one of the young artists on the scene.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
It's interesting realism was frowned upon, it was looked down
as something lesser. From the moment I hit Cooper, that
was abex. The whole world was abex, The whole downtown
was abex. And people were coming over from Europe to
(03:55):
be around Eighth Street, tenth Street, ninth Street, right where
Cooper was.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
These artists were part of a community. They put on
shows together, talked about the future of art, and last
but not least, they drank together.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You know, I would have wine, but they were drinking scotch,
little little shots of scotch with a beer chaser. So
the Scotch would go down in one gulp, and then
the beer and then they put a lemon or something
in it. Sometimes I put on a good show, but
(04:31):
it wasn't my style.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Audrey told us that there were two places that the
abstract expressionists all went to hang out. First, the Waldorf Cafeteria.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
It was the most gloomy, awful decrepit. You know, you
look like you were embombed if you went in there.
But we would go there and you could have a
cup of water and put ketchup in it and that
was your tomato soup. You could save money. And that
was a few blocks from the Cedar.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
The Cedar was the hard drinking tavern where the artists
would have raucous debates about art and where as we
learned in episode one, Audrey first met Jackson.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
The Seedo was, you know, the place that everybody went smoky, crowded.
In the front there were cubicles, little seats with where
people could sit and it was always jammed, and then
there was a bar with stools along the edge of
(05:36):
Jackson liked to sit towards the back.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Everyone was there. Artists tailed for their action like brushstrokes.
Joan Mitchell William Da Kooning, Franz Klein to name a few,
plus writers Jack Carrouac and Alan Ginsburg stopped by.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
When Jackson and billdy Cooney and Franz kleinb showed up
all you know, one at a time, but three of
them were there. There was like a hush. I mean,
everybody knew that you were in the presence of greatness.
It was like a jack It was like, wow, they're here,
(06:12):
you know, and then arguments would break out. Sometimes people
would shove and push. It was scary for a girl,
you know, mind her, I'm like eighteen. It was male dominated,
there was no doubt about it. It was an old
(06:34):
boys club.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I've heard descriptions like this before. Lee Krasner once said
it was where the women were treated like cattle. Most
women artists avoided it. But it wasn't just the cedar
that was like this. The whole art scene was very
male in its vibe. But of course there were women
at the heart of it. Audrey knew them all and
told me some great stories.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
On the scene was John Mitchell, who I thought it
was some absolutely marvelous artist.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Born in Chicago a few years before Audrey. Joan Mitchell
was known for her lossal canvases full of energy, action
and dynamism. She arrived in New York at the end
of the nineteen forties, where she remained for a decade
before settling in France. Unlike many other Abbe's artists, Mitchell
(07:24):
looked back to the nineteenth century French painters, and her
spectacular canvases often reflect the palette of the likes of
Claude Monnet. To me, her greatest strength was transforming oil
paint into gusts of light and movement.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I loved her work. I think she's one of the
best artists, and I thought so.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Then then there was Grace Hartigan.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Grace and I became good friends.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It was her work The Persian Jacket that looked back
to the Spanish Old Masters. She used cheap industrial brushes
for her bold, sensuous strokes.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Elaine dy Kooning, who was absolutely brilliant, smoked like a
chimney and drank or so.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Elaine was also one of the first people to write
about these artists in the publication Arn't News. Although working
in an abstract vein, she was famed for her portraits,
notably of sports stars and politicians, including John f Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Oh Helen frank Nzaler, who did not go to the bar.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Frankenhaler pioneered what is known as color field painting. Instead
of using action like gestures like the other Abex painters,
she developed a technique called soak stain. She put the
canvas on the floor, thin down the paint and let
it glide over. The results were multi layered pools of
spontaneous organic forms.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
These women felt that they had to be as tough
as the men, and tougher than the men to survive,
and they adopted male behavior. They suffered. Who else whom
I leaning out? Oh?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Lee?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Of course Lee didn't go to the bar.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So tell us about Lee Krasner. I mean, what do
people think of her? What was her reputation? What was
her involvement?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Well, she was like the Diane. Lee was in love
with Jackson. One of the things that I was always
almost shocked by is when they got the house, there
was a barn on the property and you went into
it because that was Jackson's studio. Right, did you see
where Lee painted at first? Weren't you shocked? Yes, you're answering.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yes, I visited last year and it was worlds away
from Jackson's vast studio in the barn.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I wouldn't have done that. You wouldn't have done that.
You have to have enough self respect us an artist,
and she was already an established artist, more so than he,
And so she paints in this tiny little bedroom upstairs.
My god, you know it was a place to sleep,
(10:15):
even with a single bed, not even a king sized
bed would fit in it.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Can you talk to us about Jackson's reputation and also
your encounters with him and what he was like.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I think about him all the time and I try
to reevaluate those times why his work was great? Was
his work great? No, Jackson, when he starts dripping, is
no longer a painter. He's not painting a painting. He's
(10:50):
not dealing with space spacial relations in that way. You know,
he's not dealing with color relationship. He's not painting. He
becomes somebody who takes on an entire scope of the
world and makes galaxies. And when you enter a Pollock painting,
(11:14):
you're entering out of space. You're going through ropes and
nuts and tangles of galaxies. Something magical.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Do you talk to us a bit about Ruth Kligman
and who she was and how she got together with Jackson.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I'm working for a gallery and I'm curating a show.
Ruth claps up five floors in her high heeled shoes,
climply clop, you could hear her, and comes into my apartment.
And Ruth was unbelievably sexy. It just reeked, it reaked.
(11:58):
And she was wearing a ray on dress, polka dot dress,
I think. And she had thick black hair and sunglasses,
white rimmed sunglasses and red lipstiff. I mean, she was fent.
She looked like Elizabeth Taylor. She was really knockout. And
(12:22):
she came in and said she has an opportunity to
curate a show for this gallery, the Collector's Gallery, and
wanted to look on my work. And she began talking
about my work. It was amazing. She really had a
good eye and an ability to talk that mesmerized you,
(12:48):
which she must have done to Jackson. She really got
him and she was good. I would have bought my
work if I heard her talking. You know, how did
she meet Jackson? Okay, so then she didn't know much
about the art world. She was from New Jersey. Thinks
(13:09):
took one or two art classes. She didn't know very
much teach me, so I would teach her what's going on.
I said, well, there's a movement called abstract Expressionist. Who
are the artists? I told her? She said, in what order?
Who is the most important? I said, I think, I mean,
(13:32):
I love Dacooning, but I think I'd have to say
Jackson first, then Decooning, and then Franz Climb. So then
she said where do they meet? I said, Licita Bar,
where is it? Well, it's on Eleventh Street and University.
So I drew a map. I walked down the stairs
(13:54):
with her and I watched her, you know, I waved goodbye.
She wiggled her little cute body and waved goodbye with
the paper in her hand, and I told her where
Jackson sat. That was it.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I found it so incredible how Audrey has such vivid
memories of all those characters she knew more than half
a century ago. It really felt like being transported back
to that nineteen fifties scene in all its creative and
unhinged glory. She still thinks about their stories today and
has even written songs about some of them, including one
(14:35):
about Jackson.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I have a song you know my band. I wrote
a song about it. I had a band, History of
Art band, which was a feminist band, by the way.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Now to finish it off, here's Audrey Flack and the
History of Art Band playing their song Action Jackson Jackson power.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
That's my name. Abstract painting brought me fame. I sell
my paintings one by one, and I get drunk when
I am done. Oh Jackson, Action Jackson, Well, I'm ripped
(15:22):
by sneer Denis malnerin lands everywhere. It just doesn't matter.
I'm Action Jackson, jack Dripper. I get drunk when I
take Zipper.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Death of an Artist Krasner and Pollock is produced by
Pushkin Industries and samasdat Audio. Clem Hitchcock is our producer.
Story editing by Dasherlitz at Sina, Sophie Crane and Karen
Schakerji from Pushkin. The executive producer is Jacob Smith from
samasdaut Audio. The executive producers are Dasherlitz at Sina and
(15:58):
Joe Sykes. Sound design by Peregrine Andrews. Original scoring and
our theme were composed by Martin Ustwick. Fact checking by
Arthur Gompertz. Special thanks to Jacob Weisberg. I'm Katie Hessel,
Host
Helen Molesworth
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.