March 31, 2025 • 31 mins
There are so many happiness lessons to remember - but it helps if we can boil them down into memorable little sayings. Happiness expert Gretchen Rubin has done exactly that in her latest book - Secrets of Adulthood.
Dr Laurie picked twelve of her favorite aphorisms from the book and invited Gretchen along to explore sayings such as “Happiness doesn't always make us feel happy” and “Accept yourself and expect more from yourself”.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin. When we think about the factors that affect our happiness,
we often focus on the big stuff, things like finding
the perfect relationship or doing work that gives us a
sense of purpose. But we often forget that the little
things can matter a lot too. A well timed joke,
a touching song lyric, and especially a memorable quote. These
(00:36):
are the sorts of things that can instantly lift our
spirits and even help us tackle tough problems. And there
are a few people who understand that better than this
episode's special guest.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So I'm Gretchen Rubin. I am so happy to be
talking to you today.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Gretchen is a best selling author, the acclaimed host of
the podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, and one of my
favorite experts on the nuances of human nature. Gretchen has
just released a new book entitled Secrets of Adulthood. In it,
Gretchen offers a reader's practical insights for navigating the daily
challenges that come with being a functional grown up in
the modern world. But Krutchen manages to share these helpful
(01:12):
insights in a truly creative way. She distills more than
two hundred complex life lessons into short concise aphorisms, short
punchy sayings that managed to pack a whole lot of
wisdom into just a few words. So tell me the
origin story of this book, because it seemed like it
had a few threats of how you got to it exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
There were a couple of things that came together. One is,
I am a writer, and I do feel it sometimes
an idea, maybe just one sentence, will cross our path
and suddenly we see the way forward, or suddenly we
have insight into a situation in a way that's really illuminating.
And I had really been pushing myself over the years
to write aphoristically, meaning trying to convey big ideas in
(01:55):
a short sentence. And then also I was feeling like, Okay,
there are these insights that I'm gaining, and I wanted
to be able to share them with other people. So
I really set myself the aim of trying to write
these and gather these.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
But you did this in the form of these aphorisms.
So what is an aphorism?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
We all know proverbs, and a proverb is like a
piece of folk wisdom, like a stumble may prevent a fall,
like nobody's associated with that. That's just like a thing
we all say, and then an aphorism is when somebody
says something like Mark Twain said it, Marcus Aurelius or Montaigne.
One of the biggest challenges is pronouncing everybody's name.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Lily is cirrus all that.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
My own favorite afforts is Marie von Ivna Eschenbach, who
nobody else remembers. But I'm going to try to bring
her back into fashion because I love hers so Like
one of her aphorisms that I love is you can
fall so fast you think you're flying.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
That's like right, it's like whoa.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
But so she said that, So that's an aphorism because
we attribute that to her she said it in that way. Now,
one of the things about affortism, and you know this
from studying happiness, all of the most important insights are
too important to be true. If there's some fresh insight,
you're like, that's probably wrong because we've been studying this
for thousands of years, great minds in history.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I've been looking at this.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
But people say it in a fresh way, or they
have a new metaphor, or they say it in a
way that particularly resonates with a particular person. So a
lot of times it's finding that fresh way to convey
an insight.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
It's creatively exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
You know, It's like writing a haikup or doing a
thirty minute sitcom. It sparks your creativity to have a constraint,
and it also really forced my thinking to clarify. First
I had to understand it, then I had to whittle
it down. So it was very creatively interesting in that way.
And I wanted ones that were truly secrets of adulthood
where I felt like there was some insight about like
making a decision or ending procrastination, or dealing with relationships.
(03:49):
And then there were some that I just couldn't manage
to articulate in an interesting short way, and so some
I wasn't able to crack the code. But in the
end I was really there was sort of a clear
set that I felt really rose to the level that
I wanted the book to be. But I still look
at all the other ones too. I'm always like going
in there and tickering with them.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I feel like there's room for a challenge of one
you couldn't get the right words for. We had to
post it online and see if somebody can come up
with a good short saying.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
For Oh, that's a good idea, like.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Say this in a more elegant way. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I should go through and look for some of my
clunkers and see if somebody can crack it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
As you're talking about this, it seems like aphorisms are
really cool, Like it seems like the kind of thing
we might see like as a little Pinterest meme. Yes,
but it also feels kind of like old school, Yes,
Afrist you mentioned feel like they were around in the
ancient times, Like if you're one of the only people
I know who's writing aphorisms today and so am I wrong?
Are they kind of old school? You're bringing them back?
(04:46):
Like what's the goal? A little bit of both.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
There are modern aphorsts like Sarah Manguso who's writing today,
and there are some other ones. Warren Buffett is a
great aphorist, But you're right, it's a very ancient form
that stretches back. And it's funny because on the one hand,
you're like, oh, this short formerly lends itself to something
like Instagram, But on the other hand, they really kind
of take a lot of thought often and so kind
(05:08):
of their worst form, they're like the inspirational poster you
see a dentist office, and then the best they're ones
where you're really, you know, pondering. I feel like they're
really advantages because they're short and they're sort of memorable.
They're easier to draw into the mind because you know,
a lot of times we just don't think of the
things that would be useful for us to remember. So
(05:29):
when it's easier to think about or remember, or like
you put it on an index card and stick it
on your corkboard or whatever, it just can have more power.
And so I do think it's fun that they lend
themselves short form, but they are often kind of weightier
than they seem, or you know, they need some reflection.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
One of the things I found kind of surprising was
how many of the aphorisms in your book are actually
paradoxes in their own way. They kind of like tell
you both things at once, which I was like, huh,
Like they're kind of philosophically deeper than I was sort
of expecting.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
No, I'm very I have a whole section just on paradoxes,
and a lot of times the opposite of a profound
truth is also true, and paradoxes are interesting because they
really make us step back, they surprise us, Like I
think one of my favorite book titles of all time
is All Joy and No Fun, which is Jennifer Senior's
book about parenting. It just makes you step back and
(06:22):
think like, Wow, what does she mean by that? And
then you're immediately full of ideas of your own and
then kind of wanting to know what she's saying about it,
because that paradox is so compelling.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I think also the confusion and the surprise of those
paradoxes gets us to reflect a little bit more, like, Yeah,
so these short statements, but I found myself, even after
reading your book, walking around with some of them and
like thinking about them a little bit more instead.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Of because some of these I think people will disagree
with and that's okay, because again, it's to prompt your
own reflection and your own insight.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And so you've collected a whole set of these for
problems as diverse as feeling happier, making tough decisions, handling temptations,
even housekeeping. And when we get back from the break,
I'm going to chat with you about my top twelve
from your book.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I cannot wait.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Author Podcaster and happiness expert Gretchen Rubin has a gift
for crafting clever aphorisms, short powerful sayings that capture life's
truths in a memorable way. Per new book, Secrets of
Adulthood is packed with these insightful one liners. And today
we're diving into my top twelve. My first of my
favorite twelve aphorisms in the book is one that's about happiness.
(07:32):
It is the aphorism happiness doesn't always make us feel happy.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Okay, so you're the perfect person to talk about this
because you approach the scientifically. Now, approaching the scientifically, you
cannot say that, because you have to say I have
to define what happiness is and what happiness isn't and
so this kind of paradoxical statement is not true. But
I think for the lay person and the way the
ordinary person uses the term happiness, I think that it
is true because sometimes we do things that make us
(07:57):
feel happy, but that also make us feel unhappy or
make us feel bad, because they're part of living up
to our values. And I always think of the person
who goes to visit an estrange parent in the hospital
and they don't want to go, and they don't enjoy
going there, and they dread it, but still they go
because in the end, it's still your father. You're putting
your values into the world. You're doing what's right, and
(08:18):
so you're happy even though you don't feel happy. And
so happiness doesn't always make us feel happier. I think
sometimes people get confused thinking, well, if I live a
happy life, I'm going to score ten on the one
to ten scale, and that's not realistic and it's not
even a good life. So that's what I was trying
to capture with that.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
No, I love this. It actually fits with what researcher
Sonya Bermirsky calls two parts of happiness. She says, happiness
is about being happy in your life and with your life.
And I think the like feeling happy part is the
happiness in your life. It's like your sense of positive
emotion and a lack of negative emotion. Yes, exactly, But
being happy with your life is the happiness part, and
the aphorism, it's kind of the overall living up to
(08:57):
your values, having a life of flourishing. And Sonya is
the one of the first to point out that those
things don't always go together. That like the things that
make you feel hedonically happy and experience lots of positive
emotions might make you feel empty. It comes to how
you're thinking about your life and vice versa. Visiting a
family member who's terminally ill. That might not feel great
in the moment, it might feel terrible, but ultimately it's
kind of getting you towards a life of true happiness
(09:18):
and flourishing well.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And I think this explains a lot of what some
people think is sort of a paradoxical thing about children,
where people are like, if you look at people's happiness
when they're children, a lot of times they're not very happy.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
They're annoyed, they're stressed out.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
But then if you say what makes you happy, people say,
children make me happy. And it's like, because happiness doesn't
always make us feel.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Happy, Okay, so can I do another way that happiness
doesn't always make us feel happy?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I think this is a deep way of conveying this
idea of hedonic adaptation, the fact that we get used
to stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Ooh, I hadn't thought of it that way.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, you know, so you hit the lottery, you get married,
you get the promotion at.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Work, you get air conditioning, you get elevators.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Right, and you have this moment of this awesome thing
comes in and you think this is going to make
me feel happier, but then you don't actually feel as
happy as you think.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Interesting, Laurie, I have to say I never thought of
that myself, even though I I wrote it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So see you're already taking me deeper. I love it.
That's a whole different way of interpreting it.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Okay, So now we go into aphorism number two about
the social world. This one rang deep for me. We
care for many people we don't particularly care for. I
care for so many people I don't particularly care for.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
And that's one thing where just reading it, you're like, yeah,
I think you said I'm sending people are confused, like
why is this person in my life if I don't
really enjoy their company or we don't have anything in common,
or you know, all we have is our childhood, And
it's like, but we care for many people we don't
particularly care for.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah. I'm feeling this right now because we just had
a midterm for my happiness class that I teach at Yale.
Oh and the students totally bomb the mid term, and
I'm kind of both annoyed and mad at them, like
why didn't you study? Why didn't you get it? But
also like I want them to learn. I'm going to
put lots of effort into kind of helping them. And
I feel like this happens so much in so many
of our caregiving roles. I think if teacher is being
(11:05):
partly a caregiver, but you know, when we're doing elder care,
be caring for a parent who has such dementia, you
don't even connect with them or relate to them. They
don't even know who you are, but you care for them.
You know, your kids can be incredibly frustrating and drive
you crazy. You're not caring for them in that moment,
yet you are caring for them.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So and I think when you say something in a
really concise way, it kind of allows more interpretation because
less is spelled out, more can be put in.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, And I think with this one, it reminds me
that the frustration, the fact that I'm feeling so upset
about kind of putting the time in is because I
care for them. It almost let me take a breath
back of like, oh, it's because I love my students.
It's because I love these people that I'm putting time
into so.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right, the reason you're so annoyed is because you do
care for them.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, okay, that's the social world. I had a bunch
that I loved that were basically aphorisms about self talk strategies.
I don't know if you think of them that way,
but that's how I thought.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I don't, so I'm intrigued to hear what that is.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So number three, repeatedly rehearsing disaster doesn't protect us from it. Yes,
this one was one that I needed to hear because
I am someone who repeatedly rehearses disaster a lot inside
my head. I'm curious some of your favorite strategies to
nip that rehearsing of terrible things in the bud.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
One of the things I like to do is to
make a list, because I feel like part of why
I ruminate is just my brain is like, don't forget,
don't forget, don't forget, don't forget. And if I write
it down then I'm like, Okay, it's memorialized somewhere and
so my brain can let go of it. Then I
do that whole thing about like, well, what's the worst
that can happen? Like the worst that could happen is
like I missed my flight, Okay, then what would happen. Well,
I'm in the Denver Airport. There's a lot of flights
(12:42):
to the East coast, Like, it wouldn't be that bad.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I'm not traveling with a toddler, so it could be worse.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And also just reminding myself that I think sometimes we
fall into this kind of superstitious belief that if we
really rehearse something, we kind of will offset it. It's
sort of protective magic, and that just isn't the case.
I Mean, it's one thing to be prepared for something
like I live in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I'm going to have my go bag ready.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
But if I'm just constantly going over and over in
my mind, then that's that's not doing anything.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
There is no protective magic that I'm invoking.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah. One of my favorite studies to share with my
students is by my former colleague Susan Nolan Huxima, and
she is the study where she looks at the level
of rumination that students go through, either by kind of
telling them to ruminate or just saying not to ruminate.
It's like, think a lot about this, or give yourself
a strategy that whenever you start to ruminate, you do
something else distract yourself, right, Yeah, And what she finds
is that the students in the rumination condition, they wound
(13:35):
up actually performing worse on this problem. So the more
they thought about it, the more anxious they got, but
like it didn't actually help them solve the problem at all.
They were better off when they just kind of distracted
themselves from this thing that felt so scary, right, so
it doesn't protect us from it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Then there's also scheduling time to worry where you you're like,
I'm going to worry about this from three to three
thirty tomorrow afternoon, and other than that, I'm not going
to worry about it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
That can work too sometimes.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Okay, Now getting to self talk, strategy and aphorism number
four one day now will be a long time ago. Yes,
this hit me in two ways. One is really brought
up all the strategies that I talk with my colleague
Ethan Cross about his idea of what's called distant self
talk that you sort of, you know, project yourself into
the future. What's this going to feel like ten years
(14:19):
from now, what's this going to feel like five years
from now? It's just not going to feel that bad.
But a second reason I love this strategy is sort
of the reverse, like one day now will be a
long time ago, so you'd better appreciate the now now
while you got it. You have to savor the moment
and notice what's going on because like it's fleeting, it's
going away really soon exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Both are true.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
You want to relish what there is, but then also
remember that you could put things in perspective.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Okay, that was number four, Now I get to number five.
This one was like really hit me in the like
cognitive science, soul because there's so many studies on this.
Love this one. It is by changing our words we
can change our perspective. Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I'm a huge fan of reframing. It is Banana's how
much it matters? Because I used to think like the
situation is the situation, and like you kind of ca
aunt change the situation just by the way that you
talk about it. But in fact, it's wild to me
how much a change.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
The classic example is do you have to do it
or do you get to do it? Yes, that's huge.
Do you play piano or practice piano? Do you have
social time, or do you network. There are so many
ways where you can reframe something and really change your
attitude toward it. I remember when my daughter was young,
and when you have a newborn, you have to go
to the pediatrician all the time, and I was complaining
(15:37):
to my husband, Oh my god, you get all these
doctors appointments such a hashole by chance. My in laws
live right around the corner from us. I mean right
around the corner. You do not even cross the street.
And he goes, oh, well, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Call my mother. I bet she'd do it.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
And I was like, oh, no way, I want to
be the one to do it. So I wanted to
complain about it. But the minute somebody said, oh, you
don't have to do it, I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
I want to do it. And it just showed me
how quickly you can reframe something.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I also love it, just like how the power of
words and the way the words are structured can change
our perspective. Like there's some evidence, for example, that if
you say you use the example of playing piano, if
you say, oh, yeah, I play piano versus I'm a
piano player, like, it completely changes your own identity about
these things. Yeah, so this is one I've been trying
to use of, like I am a healthy eater. Now
I'm trying to eat healthy, Like I am a healthy eater.
(16:23):
I've become this thing. But yeah, studies show that when
we kind of use a noun to describe ourselves, I
am a healthy eater as opposed to like this active
verb I just eat healthy, it completely changes our relationship
to those behaviors. It completely changes our habits.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Right, Like, what does a writer do? A writer write?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So you can't be a writer who like actually never writes,
and you become a writer by writing.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
But sometimes we have these identities in our head when
we don't act on them a lot. I know this
is something you talk a lot about in your habit book, right, Yes,
actually putting it into practice is helpful. And if we
can hack that with something as simple as changing the
word we use, like, that's so easy, so powerful.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So that was number five. Now we get to number six,
self talk strategy, Accept yourself and expect more from yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
This took me a really long time to understand because
on the one hand, and then you know, you know
all the research about self compassion and self acceptance, and
that's clearly true. But on the other hand, it's also
true that you don't want to be complacent. You want
to be willing to put yourself out of your comfort zone.
We're happier when we live in an atmosphere of growth,
when we're growing, when we're learning, when we're changing, when
we're making things better, and both are true. You can
(17:28):
accept yourself and expect more from yourself, and each of
us have to decide where that line is.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, and some of your books we talk about just
like being Gretchen, and I feel like this is kind
of part and parcela that accept yourself but also expect
more of yourself. You kind of want to get back
to what's the authentically Gretchen thing to do, and sometimes
that might be giving up whatever, you know, crazy plan
you have to try to improve yourself, but sometimes being
authentically you might be No, I got to like nudge
myself a little bit further.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, And I think it's frustrating sometimes because it's really
hard to know sometimes where the line is, and nobody
else can really answer that for you. It's sort of like, Okay, well,
meditation hasn't been going that well for me. Should I say, hey,
meditation isn't a tool that works for me, or or
should I stick with it? And kind of only you
can figure that out. It's just so hard to know
ourselves right, And I think this is where these self
(18:15):
compassion strategies can actually be helpful.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You know, Kristin f who talks about self compassion, talks
about talking to yourself like you would a friend. Sometimes
for me that strategy helps me kind of like toggle
this line pretty well, like if your friend is like
kind of being a little lazier, not pushing themselves, or
if they're pushing themselves too hard. You can often see
it with a friend of like, nah, I think you're
being a little self indulgent, let me kind of nudge you,
(18:38):
versus like you are taking a way too much, like
give yourself some grace. And so that idea of seeing
yourself and talking to yourself like you would a friend,
that at least for me helps me get this right
balance between accepting myself and expecting more of myself.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Well, it's something my sister calls me a happiness bully,
because if I think that there's a way for you
to like push into that zone, I will often like
be very enthusiastically encouraging you to do it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Slash bullying. Slash bullying.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Now you know.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And then there's another afforism, which is love is unconditional,
but love is all also demanding. Love loves you just
as you are, and love expects the best from you.
And so sometimes it's like again, these lines can sometimes
be difficult to see, and yet they're very.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Very important.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So we've gone through a bunch already. But when we
get back from the break, we're going to turn to
some aphorisms about how to get stuff done and how
to get through tough times. The Happiness Lab. We'll be
right back. Today we're breaking down my favorite aphorisms in
Gretchen Rubin's new book, Secrets of Adulthood. Before the break,
we tackled Gretchen's quotes about happiness and self talk. Now
(19:43):
we'll turn to Gretchen's observations about two problems that I
struggle with a lot, productivity and procrastination. Okay, getting stuff done.
I would expect nothing less from a Gretchen Rubn book
than to tell me how to get stuff done and concise.
But I had three of them from the book that
I really loved The first was good intentions mean nothing
(20:03):
unless they inspire practical actions. This is my achilles ell
when it comes to being a happiness expert, is like
actually getting stuff done. I know all these things that
I'm supposed to do, but it's really hard to put
those things into action.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That is it, Because it really doesn't matter what your
good intentions are. And I think sometimes good intentions can
even be draining and discouraging because if you keep making
them and then they don't turn into practical actions, then
they can kind of weigh you down. Whereas if you
never thought about it at all, you would be skipping
through your life not feeling like there was something you
believing undone. So I just feel like it's really helpful
(20:38):
to think, like, well, I have to figure out a
way to turn this into a practical action.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
And I love this idea of practical action because I
think it reminds us not just good intentions to mean
nothing unless they inspire action. Throwing that practical word in there,
I think is helpful because it's like it's going to
be practical. It can't be like, you know, I haven't
exercised in the last three years, and then tomorrow I'm
going to run a marathon. It has to actually fit
your real life. It has to fit your boundary conditions
(21:04):
and your habits and your lifestyle. Yeah, so for me,
that extra word really made me much happier with this aphorism.
Now we get to aphorism number eight.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Oh good.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Don't expect to be motivated by motivation.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And I think the word motivation is very confusing because
motivation conflates the idea that you very much want to
achieve an aim and that you're doing work toward that aim.
And in my experience, people are often extraordinarily desirous of
an aim, they desperately want to achieve that a and
yet they're not doing anything to give themselves towards that aim.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
So are they motivated or not motivated? I don't know.
Don't expect to be motivated by motivation.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, I think one of the frustrating things about motivation
is that whatever we mean by this word motivation, and
I agree with you, there's like too many different parts
to it. Yeah, Sometimes it just comes naturally, Like I've
like such a sugar craving and I don't have to
do any work to seek out sweet, fatty food, right
the way that works. The way that kind of craving works.
It's just completely different than the way I have to
(22:02):
motivate myself to like have a hard workout or get
a writing project done at work, or like send off
a few emails, and like I wish they were one
and the same. Why doesn't the brain work to make
it one and the same.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's why I just don't think motivation is a helpful word.
It's too loose.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It gets into this whole thing where like sometimes we
want to do something but we don't really want to do.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It, or we don't really want to do it, but
we want to do it. It just gets very, very confusing.
So I just say stay clear of that word.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
And maybe we get a hint about how we can
do better from aphorism number nine, which is one of
the best uses of willpower is to avoid situations that
require willpower.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Oh yes, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I don't know where this one came from, but this
is basically just straight out of Aristotle. Like, this one's
really ancient. Aristotle thought that the way you have willpower
is you set up situations that you don't really need
it at all. You set to up situations so that basically,
your only reasonable course of action is to do the
thing that, at your very highest value level, you wanted
to do the most well.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
When I wrote my book about habits better than before,
that's was just the deepest thing, which is like everything
should be a habit, Everything should be operating on automatic
so that you're not deploying what po like I have
a strong sweet tooth too. It sounds like you have
a big sweet tooth. So I just gave up sugar.
It's easier for me to just say, like I don't
need sugar. And then it's like do I eat this cupcake? No,
because I don't need sugar. Do I eat this piece
of free can eat?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Because I don't need sugar. Then I don't need any wallpower,
because once you've done it for like not even that long,
your brain is just like, oh, that's not for me,
and it just kind of fades into the background.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
So it sounds like your situation there is really like
using words again as we talked about before, to sort
of set up like I am not a sugar eater.
I just kind of get rid of it. My move
is situation support, Like I just don't have any sugar
in my house when I'm trying to avoid this sort
of thing.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
You don't have to resist the ice cream in the
freezer because there's no ice cream in the freezer.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yes, yes, physical situation support, but I also love to
use social situation support, right, which is like hang out
with other people who aren't going to like demand that
we go to ice cream shop or you know, hang
out with other people who buy their own behavior, model
this and make this easy for me. And that's actually
what Aristotle thought of. He said, you actually get virtue
from other people because your friends are your virtuous selves.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
It's just it's something like with sugar.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
It was so noisy, It was so boring to have
that in my head all the time, and I just remember,
like it would just be there, buzzing in my mind.
Is there there, It's there, And then I could just
decide to turn it off.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
That is like your superpower, because like I've tried to
decide many times to shut it off, but my brain
just doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Like that's it.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Never again. I have to like restructure my environment and
be around people who help.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
And yeah, everybody has to kind of experiment to see
what works for them because we all are all very different,
and there's a lot of different ways to approach it.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Although, can I tell you a puzzle about this willpower aphorism,
which is that I have this former student, Ariela Crystal,
who's been looking at the consequences of how people judge
people who use these different strategies. And a curious thing
that she finds is that even though we know that
setting up these situation supports help you, she finds that
people like people who exert the willpower rather than set
(25:04):
up the situation. So if you tell them, you know,
person a Bob like really didn't want to eat sugar
and he just decided, you know, hey, I'm not going
to eat sugar anymore, right, Versus you know, there's Phil
who decided he didn't want to eat sugar anymore, and
he moved the sugar out of his house and he
made sure he only hung out with friends that weren't
eating sugar. What you find is that participants like Bob
better than Phil. They think Bob is more moral, a
(25:27):
stronger person, and so.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Or maybe they think that Phil's way is more realistic
and therefore is more of a challenge to themselves. Interesting, yeah,
because if they're like, well, I'm want some bob that
can just go off and do it.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
So clearly that doesn't reflect on me.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I mean, many people, when they start making their habits better,
the people around them are often not very supportive, right,
because they start saying to themselves like maybe I should
be doing this.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
And I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So it might be that it makes them feel worse
about themselves.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Now jumping to number ten, aphorism about getting stuff done.
Focus on actions not outcomes. You update this to me
and don't try to learn to play the guitar. Just
play the guitar for twenty minutes every day. This is
very Yoda, who I think has a different aphorism, which
is do or do not There is no try.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, because a lot of times people will say things like, well,
I want to write a best selling novel. Well, you
can't control whether something is a bestseller, right, that's something
other people have to do. And you can't even control
whether you can publish a novel, but you can write.
People tend to have vague outcomes. People will say them
they're like I want to learn Italian. It's like that's
a major major am right, Or get more fun out
(26:38):
of life, whereas if you're really focusing on your action,
like I'm going to watch a classic movie every Sunday night.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
That's something where you're like, did you do it? Did
you not do it?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
And that's a way to get more fun out of life.
Or I'm going to practice my Italian half an hour
a day. You can measure it. You know whether you
did it or didn't do it, so you get a
feeling of satisfaction. It's taking you toward your aim. But
otherwise these aims are just so big and vague. It's
like on any one day you're not going to have
done it. It's very hard to even know if you're
making progress.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, it reminds me of what researchers often call these
smart goals. Yes, smart is this acronym that stands for specific, measurable, achievable, relevant,
and time bound. The actions can be very specific. You
can measure whether you did them or not. You know
it that you can do them. Yes, you can set
a time limit on them so you know exactly when
you're supposed to do that specific action. And the interesting
(27:25):
thing is like, even if you don't get to the outcome,
you're getting closer to it than if you didn't do
the actions in the first place.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Exactly because you may never be fluent in Italian, but
you're good enough to, like, you know, go to Italy
and talk to the waiter.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I can order a canoli.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
So I think that that's why it's better to focus
on your actions than on your outcomes.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And so those were some pieces of advice for getting
stuff done. My final two favorite aphorisms are pieces of
advice we can use in tough times, starting with number eleven. Sometimes,
to keep going, we need to allow ourselves to stop.
This one, you know, especially in times when I was
experiencing lots of burnout myself reminding myself about the need
(28:03):
to rest. That rest is an investment so essential but
so so hard to remember, right, And I like the
word stop, not just Sometimes to keep going, we need
to allow ourselves to rest. Sometimes to keep going, you
need to allow yourself to stop, not just rest, but pause. Yeah,
take a step away.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Right. Sometimes you just think if I just go, go, go,
go go, I will just power through it, and then
you just become more and more drained and overwhelmed and unfocused.
I'm a big believer in a good night's sleep. I mean,
if there is a cliche that I live by. It's
everything looks better after good night sleep. I'll get a
bed at seven forty five if I'm having a really
really bad day because I'm like, I just need this
day to be over. I'll feel better in the morning.
(28:43):
Even that kind of letting yourself stop.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
And so final piece of advice for tough times in
my final aphorism, which I really loved, things often get
messier before they get tidier. Yes, I've literally since I
read this aphorism, told this to four different people in
my life who are going through various tough times and
various moments of untidiness. So true, but we forget that
things getting a little bit worse isn't necessarily a sign
(29:06):
that they're not going to get better. We just can't
think about paths towards progress without assuming it's going to
be in some straight line.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, I mean, this is one of those that's literally
true and also metaphorically true, because it's literally true if
you've ever tried to like clean out your closet, but
it's also very metaphorically true if you're trying to do
something like switch careers or change a relationship or something
a lot of times it can get very messy before
it gets cleared up.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I think it's also like even locally, like trying to
get through a tough emotion. Right, I've been trying to
engage in all these practices I tell my students about,
you know, sitting with and accepting your emotions and when
you decide to do that. Wow, does it feel messy
when you're sitting with sadness? Or wow does it feel
messy when you're really noticing that overwhelmed. Yeah, but if
you give yourself time to do that, then all of
a sudden, Oh, you wind up in a much better place. Yes,
(29:53):
but the tidiness is on the other side. Yeah. Well
those are my favorite twelve and I hope my Happiness
Lab listeners will check out the rest.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Of the book.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, this is so fun for me to hear which
ones resonated with you, especially since you yourself are such a
happiness expert.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's fun to see what cut your off.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Want to learn more or they want to hear more
from you. Where should they go?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Well, they can got to a Happier cast dot com,
slash secrets, and then there's all kinds of information about
the books and excerps and you can see the cover
and order it if you want, or you can just
wherever books are sold.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And just to recap my favorite of Gretchen's aphorisms. Number one,
happiness doesn't always make us feel happy. Number two. We
care for many people we don't particularly care for. Number three.
Repeatedly rehearsing disaster doesn't protect us from it. Number four.
One day now will be a long time ago. Number five.
By changing our words, we can change our perspective. Number six.
(30:47):
Accept yourself and expect more from yourself. Number seven. Good
intentions mean nothing unless they inspire practical actions. Number eight.
Don't expect to be motivated by motivation. Number nine. One
of the best uses of willpower is to avoid situations
that require willpower. Number ten. Focus on actions, not outcomes.
(31:09):
Number eleven. Sometimes to keep going, we need to allow
ourselves to stop. And finally, number twelve, things often get
messier before they get tidier. I hope at least one
of these nuggets of wisdom connected with you as much
as they've resonated with me. But that's not the end
of the wisdom that Gretchen will be giving the Happiness
Lab community, because next time Gretchen will return to share
(31:30):
an episode from her podcast's news series on Happiness, one
in which the two of us chat about friendships, how
they evolve, how they go wrong, and what we can
do to make them healthier. So be sure to return
for a special friendship round table next time on the
Happiness Lab with me doctor Laurie Santos
Pushkin. When we think about the factors that affect our happiness,
we often focus on the big stuff, things like finding
the perfect relationship or doing work that gives us a
sense of purpose. But we often forget that the little
things can matter a lot too. A well timed joke,
a touching song lyric, and especially a memorable quote. These
(00:36):
are the sorts of things that can instantly lift our
spirits and even help us tackle tough problems. And there
are a few people who understand that better than this
episode's special guest.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So I'm Gretchen Rubin. I am so happy to be
talking to you today.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Gretchen is a best selling author, the acclaimed host of
the podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, and one of my
favorite experts on the nuances of human nature. Gretchen has
just released a new book entitled Secrets of Adulthood. In it,
Gretchen offers a reader's practical insights for navigating the daily
challenges that come with being a functional grown up in
the modern world. But Krutchen manages to share these helpful
(01:12):
insights in a truly creative way. She distills more than
two hundred complex life lessons into short concise aphorisms, short
punchy sayings that managed to pack a whole lot of
wisdom into just a few words. So tell me the
origin story of this book, because it seemed like it
had a few threats of how you got to it exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
There were a couple of things that came together. One is,
I am a writer, and I do feel it sometimes
an idea, maybe just one sentence, will cross our path
and suddenly we see the way forward, or suddenly we
have insight into a situation in a way that's really illuminating.
And I had really been pushing myself over the years
to write aphoristically, meaning trying to convey big ideas in
(01:55):
a short sentence. And then also I was feeling like, Okay,
there are these insights that I'm gaining, and I wanted
to be able to share them with other people. So
I really set myself the aim of trying to write
these and gather these.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
But you did this in the form of these aphorisms.
So what is an aphorism?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
We all know proverbs, and a proverb is like a
piece of folk wisdom, like a stumble may prevent a fall,
like nobody's associated with that. That's just like a thing
we all say, and then an aphorism is when somebody
says something like Mark Twain said it, Marcus Aurelius or Montaigne.
One of the biggest challenges is pronouncing everybody's name.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Lily is cirrus all that.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
My own favorite afforts is Marie von Ivna Eschenbach, who
nobody else remembers. But I'm going to try to bring
her back into fashion because I love hers so Like
one of her aphorisms that I love is you can
fall so fast you think you're flying.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
That's like right, it's like whoa.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
But so she said that, So that's an aphorism because
we attribute that to her she said it in that way. Now,
one of the things about affortism, and you know this
from studying happiness, all of the most important insights are
too important to be true. If there's some fresh insight,
you're like, that's probably wrong because we've been studying this
for thousands of years, great minds in history.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I've been looking at this.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
But people say it in a fresh way, or they
have a new metaphor, or they say it in a
way that particularly resonates with a particular person. So a
lot of times it's finding that fresh way to convey
an insight.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
It's creatively exciting.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
You know, It's like writing a haikup or doing a
thirty minute sitcom. It sparks your creativity to have a constraint,
and it also really forced my thinking to clarify. First
I had to understand it, then I had to whittle
it down. So it was very creatively interesting in that way.
And I wanted ones that were truly secrets of adulthood
where I felt like there was some insight about like
making a decision or ending procrastination, or dealing with relationships.
(03:49):
And then there were some that I just couldn't manage
to articulate in an interesting short way, and so some
I wasn't able to crack the code. But in the
end I was really there was sort of a clear
set that I felt really rose to the level that
I wanted the book to be. But I still look
at all the other ones too. I'm always like going
in there and tickering with them.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I feel like there's room for a challenge of one
you couldn't get the right words for. We had to
post it online and see if somebody can come up
with a good short saying.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
For Oh, that's a good idea, like.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Say this in a more elegant way. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I should go through and look for some of my
clunkers and see if somebody can crack it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
As you're talking about this, it seems like aphorisms are
really cool, Like it seems like the kind of thing
we might see like as a little Pinterest meme. Yes,
but it also feels kind of like old school, Yes,
Afrist you mentioned feel like they were around in the
ancient times, Like if you're one of the only people
I know who's writing aphorisms today and so am I wrong?
Are they kind of old school? You're bringing them back?
(04:46):
Like what's the goal? A little bit of both.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
There are modern aphorsts like Sarah Manguso who's writing today,
and there are some other ones. Warren Buffett is a
great aphorist, But you're right, it's a very ancient form
that stretches back. And it's funny because on the one hand,
you're like, oh, this short formerly lends itself to something
like Instagram, But on the other hand, they really kind
of take a lot of thought often and so kind
(05:08):
of their worst form, they're like the inspirational poster you
see a dentist office, and then the best they're ones
where you're really, you know, pondering. I feel like they're
really advantages because they're short and they're sort of memorable.
They're easier to draw into the mind because you know,
a lot of times we just don't think of the
things that would be useful for us to remember. So
(05:29):
when it's easier to think about or remember, or like
you put it on an index card and stick it
on your corkboard or whatever, it just can have more power.
And so I do think it's fun that they lend
themselves short form, but they are often kind of weightier
than they seem, or you know, they need some reflection.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
One of the things I found kind of surprising was
how many of the aphorisms in your book are actually
paradoxes in their own way. They kind of like tell
you both things at once, which I was like, huh,
Like they're kind of philosophically deeper than I was sort
of expecting.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
No, I'm very I have a whole section just on paradoxes,
and a lot of times the opposite of a profound
truth is also true, and paradoxes are interesting because they
really make us step back, they surprise us, Like I
think one of my favorite book titles of all time
is All Joy and No Fun, which is Jennifer Senior's
book about parenting. It just makes you step back and
(06:22):
think like, Wow, what does she mean by that? And
then you're immediately full of ideas of your own and
then kind of wanting to know what she's saying about it,
because that paradox is so compelling.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I think also the confusion and the surprise of those
paradoxes gets us to reflect a little bit more, like, Yeah,
so these short statements, but I found myself, even after
reading your book, walking around with some of them and
like thinking about them a little bit more instead.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Of because some of these I think people will disagree
with and that's okay, because again, it's to prompt your
own reflection and your own insight.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And so you've collected a whole set of these for
problems as diverse as feeling happier, making tough decisions, handling temptations,
even housekeeping. And when we get back from the break,
I'm going to chat with you about my top twelve
from your book.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I cannot wait.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Author Podcaster and happiness expert Gretchen Rubin has a gift
for crafting clever aphorisms, short powerful sayings that capture life's
truths in a memorable way. Per new book, Secrets of
Adulthood is packed with these insightful one liners. And today
we're diving into my top twelve. My first of my
favorite twelve aphorisms in the book is one that's about happiness.
(07:32):
It is the aphorism happiness doesn't always make us feel happy.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Okay, so you're the perfect person to talk about this
because you approach the scientifically. Now, approaching the scientifically, you
cannot say that, because you have to say I have
to define what happiness is and what happiness isn't and
so this kind of paradoxical statement is not true. But
I think for the lay person and the way the
ordinary person uses the term happiness, I think that it
is true because sometimes we do things that make us
(07:57):
feel happy, but that also make us feel unhappy or
make us feel bad, because they're part of living up
to our values. And I always think of the person
who goes to visit an estrange parent in the hospital
and they don't want to go, and they don't enjoy
going there, and they dread it, but still they go
because in the end, it's still your father. You're putting
your values into the world. You're doing what's right, and
(08:18):
so you're happy even though you don't feel happy. And
so happiness doesn't always make us feel happier. I think
sometimes people get confused thinking, well, if I live a
happy life, I'm going to score ten on the one
to ten scale, and that's not realistic and it's not
even a good life. So that's what I was trying
to capture with that.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
No, I love this. It actually fits with what researcher
Sonya Bermirsky calls two parts of happiness. She says, happiness
is about being happy in your life and with your life.
And I think the like feeling happy part is the
happiness in your life. It's like your sense of positive
emotion and a lack of negative emotion. Yes, exactly, But
being happy with your life is the happiness part, and
the aphorism, it's kind of the overall living up to
(08:57):
your values, having a life of flourishing. And Sonya is
the one of the first to point out that those
things don't always go together. That like the things that
make you feel hedonically happy and experience lots of positive
emotions might make you feel empty. It comes to how
you're thinking about your life and vice versa. Visiting a
family member who's terminally ill. That might not feel great
in the moment, it might feel terrible, but ultimately it's
kind of getting you towards a life of true happiness
(09:18):
and flourishing well.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And I think this explains a lot of what some
people think is sort of a paradoxical thing about children,
where people are like, if you look at people's happiness
when they're children, a lot of times they're not very happy.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
They're annoyed, they're stressed out.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
But then if you say what makes you happy, people say,
children make me happy. And it's like, because happiness doesn't
always make us feel.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Happy, Okay, so can I do another way that happiness
doesn't always make us feel happy?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I think this is a deep way of conveying this
idea of hedonic adaptation, the fact that we get used
to stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Ooh, I hadn't thought of it that way.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, you know, so you hit the lottery, you get married,
you get the promotion at.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Work, you get air conditioning, you get elevators.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Right, and you have this moment of this awesome thing
comes in and you think this is going to make
me feel happier, but then you don't actually feel as
happy as you think.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Interesting, Laurie, I have to say I never thought of
that myself, even though I I wrote it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So see you're already taking me deeper. I love it.
That's a whole different way of interpreting it.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Okay, So now we go into aphorism number two about
the social world. This one rang deep for me. We
care for many people we don't particularly care for. I
care for so many people I don't particularly care for.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
And that's one thing where just reading it, you're like, yeah,
I think you said I'm sending people are confused, like
why is this person in my life if I don't
really enjoy their company or we don't have anything in common,
or you know, all we have is our childhood, And
it's like, but we care for many people we don't
particularly care for.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah. I'm feeling this right now because we just had
a midterm for my happiness class that I teach at Yale.
Oh and the students totally bomb the mid term, and
I'm kind of both annoyed and mad at them, like
why didn't you study? Why didn't you get it? But
also like I want them to learn. I'm going to
put lots of effort into kind of helping them. And
I feel like this happens so much in so many
of our caregiving roles. I think if teacher is being
(11:05):
partly a caregiver, but you know, when we're doing elder care,
be caring for a parent who has such dementia, you
don't even connect with them or relate to them. They
don't even know who you are, but you care for them.
You know, your kids can be incredibly frustrating and drive
you crazy. You're not caring for them in that moment,
yet you are caring for them.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
So and I think when you say something in a
really concise way, it kind of allows more interpretation because
less is spelled out, more can be put in.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, And I think with this one, it reminds me
that the frustration, the fact that I'm feeling so upset
about kind of putting the time in is because I
care for them. It almost let me take a breath
back of like, oh, it's because I love my students.
It's because I love these people that I'm putting time
into so.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right, the reason you're so annoyed is because you do
care for them.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, okay, that's the social world. I had a bunch
that I loved that were basically aphorisms about self talk strategies.
I don't know if you think of them that way,
but that's how I thought.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I don't, so I'm intrigued to hear what that is.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
So number three, repeatedly rehearsing disaster doesn't protect us from it. Yes,
this one was one that I needed to hear because
I am someone who repeatedly rehearses disaster a lot inside
my head. I'm curious some of your favorite strategies to
nip that rehearsing of terrible things in the bud.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
One of the things I like to do is to
make a list, because I feel like part of why
I ruminate is just my brain is like, don't forget,
don't forget, don't forget, don't forget. And if I write
it down then I'm like, Okay, it's memorialized somewhere and
so my brain can let go of it. Then I
do that whole thing about like, well, what's the worst
that can happen? Like the worst that could happen is
like I missed my flight, Okay, then what would happen. Well,
I'm in the Denver Airport. There's a lot of flights
(12:42):
to the East coast, Like, it wouldn't be that bad.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
I'm not traveling with a toddler, so it could be worse.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And also just reminding myself that I think sometimes we
fall into this kind of superstitious belief that if we
really rehearse something, we kind of will offset it. It's
sort of protective magic, and that just isn't the case.
I Mean, it's one thing to be prepared for something
like I live in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I'm going to have my go bag ready.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
But if I'm just constantly going over and over in
my mind, then that's that's not doing anything.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
There is no protective magic that I'm invoking.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah. One of my favorite studies to share with my
students is by my former colleague Susan Nolan Huxima, and
she is the study where she looks at the level
of rumination that students go through, either by kind of
telling them to ruminate or just saying not to ruminate.
It's like, think a lot about this, or give yourself
a strategy that whenever you start to ruminate, you do
something else distract yourself, right, Yeah, And what she finds
is that the students in the rumination condition, they wound
(13:35):
up actually performing worse on this problem. So the more
they thought about it, the more anxious they got, but
like it didn't actually help them solve the problem at all.
They were better off when they just kind of distracted
themselves from this thing that felt so scary, right, so
it doesn't protect us from it.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Then there's also scheduling time to worry where you you're like,
I'm going to worry about this from three to three
thirty tomorrow afternoon, and other than that, I'm not going
to worry about it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
That can work too sometimes.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Okay, Now getting to self talk, strategy and aphorism number
four one day now will be a long time ago. Yes,
this hit me in two ways. One is really brought
up all the strategies that I talk with my colleague
Ethan Cross about his idea of what's called distant self
talk that you sort of, you know, project yourself into
the future. What's this going to feel like ten years
(14:19):
from now, what's this going to feel like five years
from now? It's just not going to feel that bad.
But a second reason I love this strategy is sort
of the reverse, like one day now will be a
long time ago, so you'd better appreciate the now now
while you got it. You have to savor the moment
and notice what's going on because like it's fleeting, it's
going away really soon exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Both are true.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
You want to relish what there is, but then also
remember that you could put things in perspective.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Okay, that was number four, Now I get to number five.
This one was like really hit me in the like
cognitive science, soul because there's so many studies on this.
Love this one. It is by changing our words we
can change our perspective. Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I'm a huge fan of reframing. It is Banana's how
much it matters? Because I used to think like the
situation is the situation, and like you kind of ca
aunt change the situation just by the way that you
talk about it. But in fact, it's wild to me
how much a change.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
The classic example is do you have to do it
or do you get to do it? Yes, that's huge.
Do you play piano or practice piano? Do you have
social time, or do you network. There are so many
ways where you can reframe something and really change your
attitude toward it. I remember when my daughter was young,
and when you have a newborn, you have to go
to the pediatrician all the time, and I was complaining
(15:37):
to my husband, Oh my god, you get all these
doctors appointments such a hashole by chance. My in laws
live right around the corner from us. I mean right
around the corner. You do not even cross the street.
And he goes, oh, well, you know.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Call my mother. I bet she'd do it.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
And I was like, oh, no way, I want to
be the one to do it. So I wanted to
complain about it. But the minute somebody said, oh, you
don't have to do it, I was like, no, no, no, no, no,
I want to do it. And it just showed me
how quickly you can reframe something.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I also love it, just like how the power of
words and the way the words are structured can change
our perspective. Like there's some evidence, for example, that if
you say you use the example of playing piano, if
you say, oh, yeah, I play piano versus I'm a
piano player, like, it completely changes your own identity about
these things. Yeah, so this is one I've been trying
to use of, like I am a healthy eater. Now
I'm trying to eat healthy, Like I am a healthy eater.
(16:23):
I've become this thing. But yeah, studies show that when
we kind of use a noun to describe ourselves, I
am a healthy eater as opposed to like this active
verb I just eat healthy, it completely changes our relationship
to those behaviors. It completely changes our habits.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Right, Like, what does a writer do? A writer write?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So you can't be a writer who like actually never writes,
and you become a writer by writing.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
But sometimes we have these identities in our head when
we don't act on them a lot. I know this
is something you talk a lot about in your habit book, right, Yes,
actually putting it into practice is helpful. And if we
can hack that with something as simple as changing the
word we use, like, that's so easy, so powerful.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So that was number five. Now we get to number six,
self talk strategy, Accept yourself and expect more from yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
This took me a really long time to understand because
on the one hand, and then you know, you know
all the research about self compassion and self acceptance, and
that's clearly true. But on the other hand, it's also
true that you don't want to be complacent. You want
to be willing to put yourself out of your comfort zone.
We're happier when we live in an atmosphere of growth,
when we're growing, when we're learning, when we're changing, when
we're making things better, and both are true. You can
(17:28):
accept yourself and expect more from yourself, and each of
us have to decide where that line is.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, and some of your books we talk about just
like being Gretchen, and I feel like this is kind
of part and parcela that accept yourself but also expect
more of yourself. You kind of want to get back
to what's the authentically Gretchen thing to do, and sometimes
that might be giving up whatever, you know, crazy plan
you have to try to improve yourself, but sometimes being
authentically you might be No, I got to like nudge
myself a little bit further.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, And I think it's frustrating sometimes because it's really
hard to know sometimes where the line is, and nobody
else can really answer that for you. It's sort of like, Okay, well,
meditation hasn't been going that well for me. Should I say, hey,
meditation isn't a tool that works for me, or or
should I stick with it? And kind of only you
can figure that out. It's just so hard to know
ourselves right, And I think this is where these self
(18:15):
compassion strategies can actually be helpful.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You know, Kristin f who talks about self compassion, talks
about talking to yourself like you would a friend. Sometimes
for me that strategy helps me kind of like toggle
this line pretty well, like if your friend is like
kind of being a little lazier, not pushing themselves, or
if they're pushing themselves too hard. You can often see
it with a friend of like, nah, I think you're
being a little self indulgent, let me kind of nudge you,
(18:38):
versus like you are taking a way too much, like
give yourself some grace. And so that idea of seeing
yourself and talking to yourself like you would a friend,
that at least for me helps me get this right
balance between accepting myself and expecting more of myself.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Well, it's something my sister calls me a happiness bully,
because if I think that there's a way for you
to like push into that zone, I will often like
be very enthusiastically encouraging you to do it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Slash bullying. Slash bullying.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Now you know.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And then there's another afforism, which is love is unconditional,
but love is all also demanding. Love loves you just
as you are, and love expects the best from you.
And so sometimes it's like again, these lines can sometimes
be difficult to see, and yet they're very.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Very important.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So we've gone through a bunch already. But when we
get back from the break, we're going to turn to
some aphorisms about how to get stuff done and how
to get through tough times. The Happiness Lab. We'll be
right back. Today we're breaking down my favorite aphorisms in
Gretchen Rubin's new book, Secrets of Adulthood. Before the break,
we tackled Gretchen's quotes about happiness and self talk. Now
(19:43):
we'll turn to Gretchen's observations about two problems that I
struggle with a lot, productivity and procrastination. Okay, getting stuff done.
I would expect nothing less from a Gretchen Rubn book
than to tell me how to get stuff done and concise.
But I had three of them from the book that
I really loved The first was good intentions mean nothing
(20:03):
unless they inspire practical actions. This is my achilles ell
when it comes to being a happiness expert, is like
actually getting stuff done. I know all these things that
I'm supposed to do, but it's really hard to put
those things into action.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That is it, Because it really doesn't matter what your
good intentions are. And I think sometimes good intentions can
even be draining and discouraging because if you keep making
them and then they don't turn into practical actions, then
they can kind of weigh you down. Whereas if you
never thought about it at all, you would be skipping
through your life not feeling like there was something you
believing undone. So I just feel like it's really helpful
(20:38):
to think, like, well, I have to figure out a
way to turn this into a practical action.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
And I love this idea of practical action because I
think it reminds us not just good intentions to mean
nothing unless they inspire action. Throwing that practical word in there,
I think is helpful because it's like it's going to
be practical. It can't be like, you know, I haven't
exercised in the last three years, and then tomorrow I'm
going to run a marathon. It has to actually fit
your real life. It has to fit your boundary conditions
(21:04):
and your habits and your lifestyle. Yeah, so for me,
that extra word really made me much happier with this aphorism.
Now we get to aphorism number eight.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Oh good.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Don't expect to be motivated by motivation.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And I think the word motivation is very confusing because
motivation conflates the idea that you very much want to
achieve an aim and that you're doing work toward that aim.
And in my experience, people are often extraordinarily desirous of
an aim, they desperately want to achieve that a and
yet they're not doing anything to give themselves towards that aim.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
So are they motivated or not motivated? I don't know.
Don't expect to be motivated by motivation.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, I think one of the frustrating things about motivation
is that whatever we mean by this word motivation, and
I agree with you, there's like too many different parts
to it. Yeah, Sometimes it just comes naturally, Like I've
like such a sugar craving and I don't have to
do any work to seek out sweet, fatty food, right
the way that works. The way that kind of craving works.
It's just completely different than the way I have to
(22:02):
motivate myself to like have a hard workout or get
a writing project done at work, or like send off
a few emails, and like I wish they were one
and the same. Why doesn't the brain work to make
it one and the same.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's why I just don't think motivation is a helpful word.
It's too loose.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It gets into this whole thing where like sometimes we
want to do something but we don't really want to do.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It, or we don't really want to do it, but
we want to do it. It just gets very, very confusing.
So I just say stay clear of that word.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
And maybe we get a hint about how we can
do better from aphorism number nine, which is one of
the best uses of willpower is to avoid situations that
require willpower.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Oh yes, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I don't know where this one came from, but this
is basically just straight out of Aristotle. Like, this one's
really ancient. Aristotle thought that the way you have willpower
is you set up situations that you don't really need
it at all. You set to up situations so that basically,
your only reasonable course of action is to do the
thing that, at your very highest value level, you wanted
to do the most well.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
When I wrote my book about habits better than before,
that's was just the deepest thing, which is like everything
should be a habit, Everything should be operating on automatic
so that you're not deploying what po like I have
a strong sweet tooth too. It sounds like you have
a big sweet tooth. So I just gave up sugar.
It's easier for me to just say, like I don't
need sugar. And then it's like do I eat this cupcake? No,
because I don't need sugar. Do I eat this piece
of free can eat?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Because I don't need sugar. Then I don't need any wallpower,
because once you've done it for like not even that long,
your brain is just like, oh, that's not for me,
and it just kind of fades into the background.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
So it sounds like your situation there is really like
using words again as we talked about before, to sort
of set up like I am not a sugar eater.
I just kind of get rid of it. My move
is situation support, Like I just don't have any sugar
in my house when I'm trying to avoid this sort
of thing.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
You don't have to resist the ice cream in the
freezer because there's no ice cream in the freezer.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yes, yes, physical situation support, but I also love to
use social situation support, right, which is like hang out
with other people who aren't going to like demand that
we go to ice cream shop or you know, hang
out with other people who buy their own behavior, model
this and make this easy for me. And that's actually
what Aristotle thought of. He said, you actually get virtue
from other people because your friends are your virtuous selves.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
You know.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
It's just it's something like with sugar.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
It was so noisy, It was so boring to have
that in my head all the time, and I just remember,
like it would just be there, buzzing in my mind.
Is there there, It's there, And then I could just
decide to turn it off.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
That is like your superpower, because like I've tried to
decide many times to shut it off, but my brain
just doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Like that's it.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Never again. I have to like restructure my environment and
be around people who help.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
And yeah, everybody has to kind of experiment to see
what works for them because we all are all very different,
and there's a lot of different ways to approach it.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Although, can I tell you a puzzle about this willpower aphorism,
which is that I have this former student, Ariela Crystal,
who's been looking at the consequences of how people judge
people who use these different strategies. And a curious thing
that she finds is that even though we know that
setting up these situation supports help you, she finds that
people like people who exert the willpower rather than set
(25:04):
up the situation. So if you tell them, you know,
person a Bob like really didn't want to eat sugar
and he just decided, you know, hey, I'm not going
to eat sugar anymore, right, Versus you know, there's Phil
who decided he didn't want to eat sugar anymore, and
he moved the sugar out of his house and he
made sure he only hung out with friends that weren't
eating sugar. What you find is that participants like Bob
better than Phil. They think Bob is more moral, a
(25:27):
stronger person, and so.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Or maybe they think that Phil's way is more realistic
and therefore is more of a challenge to themselves. Interesting, yeah,
because if they're like, well, I'm want some bob that
can just go off and do it.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
So clearly that doesn't reflect on me.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I mean, many people, when they start making their habits better,
the people around them are often not very supportive, right,
because they start saying to themselves like maybe I should
be doing this.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
And I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
So it might be that it makes them feel worse
about themselves.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Now jumping to number ten, aphorism about getting stuff done.
Focus on actions not outcomes. You update this to me
and don't try to learn to play the guitar. Just
play the guitar for twenty minutes every day. This is
very Yoda, who I think has a different aphorism, which
is do or do not There is no try.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, because a lot of times people will say things like, well,
I want to write a best selling novel. Well, you
can't control whether something is a bestseller, right, that's something
other people have to do. And you can't even control
whether you can publish a novel, but you can write.
People tend to have vague outcomes. People will say them
they're like I want to learn Italian. It's like that's
a major major am right, Or get more fun out
(26:38):
of life, whereas if you're really focusing on your action,
like I'm going to watch a classic movie every Sunday night.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
That's something where you're like, did you do it? Did
you not do it?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
And that's a way to get more fun out of life.
Or I'm going to practice my Italian half an hour
a day. You can measure it. You know whether you
did it or didn't do it, so you get a
feeling of satisfaction. It's taking you toward your aim. But
otherwise these aims are just so big and vague. It's
like on any one day you're not going to have
done it. It's very hard to even know if you're
making progress.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, it reminds me of what researchers often call these
smart goals. Yes, smart is this acronym that stands for specific, measurable, achievable, relevant,
and time bound. The actions can be very specific. You
can measure whether you did them or not. You know
it that you can do them. Yes, you can set
a time limit on them so you know exactly when
you're supposed to do that specific action. And the interesting
(27:25):
thing is like, even if you don't get to the outcome,
you're getting closer to it than if you didn't do
the actions in the first place.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Exactly because you may never be fluent in Italian, but
you're good enough to, like, you know, go to Italy
and talk to the waiter.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I can order a canoli.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
So I think that that's why it's better to focus
on your actions than on your outcomes.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And so those were some pieces of advice for getting
stuff done. My final two favorite aphorisms are pieces of
advice we can use in tough times, starting with number eleven. Sometimes,
to keep going, we need to allow ourselves to stop.
This one, you know, especially in times when I was
experiencing lots of burnout myself reminding myself about the need
(28:03):
to rest. That rest is an investment so essential but
so so hard to remember, right, And I like the
word stop, not just Sometimes to keep going, we need
to allow ourselves to rest. Sometimes to keep going, you
need to allow yourself to stop, not just rest, but pause. Yeah,
take a step away.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Right. Sometimes you just think if I just go, go, go,
go go, I will just power through it, and then
you just become more and more drained and overwhelmed and unfocused.
I'm a big believer in a good night's sleep. I mean,
if there is a cliche that I live by. It's
everything looks better after good night sleep. I'll get a
bed at seven forty five if I'm having a really
really bad day because I'm like, I just need this
day to be over. I'll feel better in the morning.
(28:43):
Even that kind of letting yourself stop.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
And so final piece of advice for tough times in
my final aphorism, which I really loved, things often get
messier before they get tidier. Yes, I've literally since I
read this aphorism, told this to four different people in
my life who are going through various tough times and
various moments of untidiness. So true, but we forget that
things getting a little bit worse isn't necessarily a sign
(29:06):
that they're not going to get better. We just can't
think about paths towards progress without assuming it's going to
be in some straight line.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, I mean, this is one of those that's literally
true and also metaphorically true, because it's literally true if
you've ever tried to like clean out your closet, but
it's also very metaphorically true if you're trying to do
something like switch careers or change a relationship or something
a lot of times it can get very messy before
it gets cleared up.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I think it's also like even locally, like trying to
get through a tough emotion. Right, I've been trying to
engage in all these practices I tell my students about,
you know, sitting with and accepting your emotions and when
you decide to do that. Wow, does it feel messy
when you're sitting with sadness? Or wow does it feel
messy when you're really noticing that overwhelmed. Yeah, but if
you give yourself time to do that, then all of
a sudden, Oh, you wind up in a much better place. Yes,
(29:53):
but the tidiness is on the other side. Yeah. Well
those are my favorite twelve and I hope my Happiness
Lab listeners will check out the rest.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Of the book.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, this is so fun for me to hear which
ones resonated with you, especially since you yourself are such a
happiness expert.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's fun to see what cut your off.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Want to learn more or they want to hear more
from you. Where should they go?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Well, they can got to a Happier cast dot com,
slash secrets, and then there's all kinds of information about
the books and excerps and you can see the cover
and order it if you want, or you can just
wherever books are sold.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And just to recap my favorite of Gretchen's aphorisms. Number one,
happiness doesn't always make us feel happy. Number two. We
care for many people we don't particularly care for. Number three.
Repeatedly rehearsing disaster doesn't protect us from it. Number four.
One day now will be a long time ago. Number five.
By changing our words, we can change our perspective. Number six.
(30:47):
Accept yourself and expect more from yourself. Number seven. Good
intentions mean nothing unless they inspire practical actions. Number eight.
Don't expect to be motivated by motivation. Number nine. One
of the best uses of willpower is to avoid situations
that require willpower. Number ten. Focus on actions, not outcomes.
(31:09):
Number eleven. Sometimes to keep going, we need to allow
ourselves to stop. And finally, number twelve, things often get
messier before they get tidier. I hope at least one
of these nuggets of wisdom connected with you as much
as they've resonated with me. But that's not the end
of the wisdom that Gretchen will be giving the Happiness
Lab community, because next time Gretchen will return to share
(31:30):
an episode from her podcast's news series on Happiness, one
in which the two of us chat about friendships, how
they evolve, how they go wrong, and what we can
do to make them healthier. So be sure to return
for a special friendship round table next time on the
Happiness Lab with me doctor Laurie Santos
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