August 27, 2024 • 47 mins
The police search Dia’s ranch three years after she disappeared. The missing person’s organization, Find Me, returns to Lake Hemet. Lucy checks in with her sources.
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin last time on Where's Dea?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I think we just got called over to put all
kinds of footprints everywhere and to just damage the crime scene. Basically.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
You know, in my opinion, they've always known it was
a mother because the video shows that.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Why the video that was here at the lane.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
One day, about three years after Dia went missing, the
Riverside Sheriff's Department made a dramatic move around a police
cars swarmed beneath a Vista ranch. A white and green
sheriff's helicopter flew above. Local CBS news reporter David Godfredson
(01:20):
rushed to the scene to report the unfolding events.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Neighbors woke up early Sunday morning to the sound of
a sheriff's helicopter flying over Dia Abrams Ranch near Idlewild.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
The cops demanded through a loudspeaker that Keith Harper come outside.
They handed him a search warrant and on a large trailer.
The cops carted in a heavy back home, presumably to dig.
Speaker 6 (01:53):
Did you hear what happened a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 7 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah, they went in a helicopter and all that,
you know, which was like ray Finally.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Julie Stanford is DEA's longtime Idle Wild friend. When I
spoke to her in Octoba twenty twenty three, the cops
had just searched the ranch for her. It felt like
a glimmer of hope.
Speaker 7 (02:16):
They left that thing out, because how could they go
there in today? Did the helicopter and all the police
Hopefully they have something.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
This all happened three years after Dia disappeared. I couldn't
help but wonder what information the cops had that made
them search the ranch again. They would have had to
show probable cause to get that search warrant, that a
crime had likely occurred on the ranch and that evidence
of the crime was going to be found there. Though
(02:50):
when I tried to get a copy of the warrant
from Riverside Superior Court, they told me there wasn't one
for that date and redirected me to the one from
twenty twenty. I don't know what the cops found at
the ranch, if anything, because they haven't responded to my
(03:10):
questions about it. But what I do know is Harper
wasn't arrested and he continued living at Bunita Vista. It
felt like a huge anticlimax this sudden flurry of activity
and then once again pretty much nothing as far as
I could tell. Unlike the cops, Clinton, Abrams, dear Son,
(03:38):
and Harper have been willing to share what they've discovered
along the way. Clinton has interviewed people who knew Dea
and followed all kinds of leads, leads that even I
thought were too outlandish to pursue. As for Harper, well,
he's still working with those psychics. In our season finale,
(04:02):
where things stand today, as the search for Dea continues,
I'm Lucy Sheriff, and this is Where's Deer? Episode six,
Spoils of War.
Speaker 8 (04:32):
The food is in my truck and the waters in
my truck.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I have a case of water on the boat, and
I have a fifty five gallon cooler on the boat.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You might remember Kelly Snyder from an earlier episode. He's
the former Dea agent who runs Find Me, the nonprofit
that searches for missing people.
Speaker 9 (04:49):
You didn't get the word that I brought five hundred
bottles of water.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right around the time the police showed up at the ranch.
Last year, Kelly, Harper and some others embarked on a
search for Deer's body Keith.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
You ready, I was out of.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
The country, so one of my producers, Jacob, tagged along instead. Yeah,
the team was going to search the same lake the
cops had searched years earlier with their sonar equipment and divers,
although the FIMI group was focusing on the shoreline of
the reservoir rather than the murky lake bed. And actually
(05:33):
this was Harper and Kelly's second time going to this
particular part of Lake Hemnett. They'd gone three months earlier
with cadaver dogs and there'd been a promising development. The
dogs had shown interests.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
Here, and when you have three dogs showing interests in
this same exact area, then that's telling you something to
indicate that more than likely there's human remains in this vicinity.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
But it wasn't just the dog's reaction that brought them
back to this spot. Like I mentioned before, Kelly's network
of psychics share coordinates of where they thought deer could
be buried, and this spot in Lake Hemmett was one
of them, so they felt like this place had potential.
(06:23):
On the first search, though they couldn't reach the area
where the dogs showed interest.
Speaker 8 (06:28):
The hall is approximately thirty to forty feet deep, and
at a time we didn't have the dog's harnesses to
lower them into the area. This time, we brought our
boat and we're going to approach the area from the
lake and then the dogs can walk easily into the
hall where we believe that dea abrams remains are either
(06:48):
buried or somewhere in that vicinity.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
This time around, they approached the spot from two different angles.
The dogs and their handlers go by boat, Harper, Kelly
and Jacob go by land, hiking towards the embankment.
Speaker 10 (07:09):
The next one, you see where that rod's coming down
from the telephone pole.
Speaker 8 (07:14):
Yeah, that's what I was zeroing in on.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
The search team reaches the shore and the dogs do
their thing. After some time, the dog handler's hike over
to Harper and Kelly to give them an update. Their
dog Soul detected something.
Speaker 11 (07:36):
Full alert from soul.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
I got full alert from soul.
Speaker 10 (07:41):
If you've got a full blown alert, then then uh,
that is a body.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
But there's the cadaver dogs alerted to some kind of
human presence. But as one of the dog handlers points out,
the dog could be picking up on anything with a
trace of what's referred to as human decomposition, basically the
senten that's emitted by human remains.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Don't you ass panties, diapers, tampons.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
We're all over this lake without digging, there's no way
to know exactly what's there, and Kelly won't dig without
the cops present, and so reluctantly they have to stop there.
Kelly will take note of their coordinates and send them
over to the cops, hoping they'll return to the site
(08:37):
and continue the search. Kelly and Harper are disappointed, to
say the least, and somewhat surprised. They look down the
embankment towards the lake at a washout of fallen trees
and debris.
Speaker 8 (08:55):
I would have given money on this spot, though, I
mean that to me, that's just perfect.
Speaker 12 (09:01):
But see where I would I would do it right
down in here.
Speaker 10 (09:07):
But how do you get there? Well, there's a trail.
Speaker 9 (09:10):
I know there's a trail, but holy shit, you're carrying
a body, Keith.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Throughout this search, Kelly has been on and off the
phone with one of his psychics. She's been advising them
on where she thinks Dia is buried.
Speaker 12 (09:25):
I would tell her to summon Stea if she's a
bet of one sea if she can see us.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Kelly calls his psychic one last time, just in case
DIA's given her any extra guidance.
Speaker 10 (09:41):
Pretty much, she said. Dia didn't come to her. God
damn it, ah she asked her to.
Speaker 9 (09:52):
And that was what two three hours ago.
Speaker 7 (10:01):
Shit.
Speaker 12 (10:04):
I feel ten times more better if we just do
without one site.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Harper has fixated on one particular spot that the psychics
pinpointed and that he previously marked with flax. He wants
the dogs to search it again.
Speaker 12 (10:22):
I just don't want to pass up an opportunity that
could well, yeah.
Speaker 9 (10:26):
Well I understand where you're coming from, but that's not
where the dog showed interest. That's the only reason I
would say would discount it. That it would be not
necessarily a waste of time.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
But.
Speaker 12 (10:43):
It's just if you have if you have someone a
psyche telling you that it's in between certain flags and
it's all in this area, would it hurt to spend
another hour or two just search in the general area
one more time?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
But Harper is vetoed, and so the search party and
Jacob DeCamp back to Benita Vista Ranch to try and
unpack the day and have so much needed lunch.
Speaker 8 (11:13):
Can I get some frecking bread here? Pretty soon he's
working on it.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Man, dude, calm down.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
One of the dog handlers takes out his phone and
shows the group a video of the spot where the
dog alerted. Harper gets agitated.
Speaker 10 (11:28):
Okay, that was that a location of where the body was.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
It was a location of something.
Speaker 10 (11:36):
I don't need to hear this, well, need to hear
more specific. Do we have a location where we believe
that she is.
Speaker 11 (11:45):
We have a location where we believe something is that's putting.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
After it's under a boulder.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
It's a boulder.
Speaker 11 (11:52):
I cannot say that that is a body and but
human dicon. I mean, my dogs are trained to alert
on a two a fragment of a bone, any blood tissue.
Speaker 10 (12:07):
So in your opinion, there's something.
Speaker 11 (12:10):
Something, something putting decomp off.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Finally, Harper seems to give up.
Speaker 10 (12:16):
So my understanding is that we're going to file a report.
Speaker 12 (12:21):
We're not going back out right.
Speaker 10 (12:23):
We're done.
Speaker 11 (12:24):
I don't think there's much we can do in that area.
I mean that we haven't already covered, unless we've got
new areas to search.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I debriefed with Kelly a few months after the search.
He was still confident that deer is buried in that lake,
Hemett's spot where the dog alerted. He tells me he
sent a second report to the Riverside Sheriff's Department, But
as far as I know, they've not taken any action.
Speaker 13 (12:54):
They have not gone back to search for our dogs,
who incidentally never never, never met say that there's something
human where they alerted two of our dogs, our best dogs,
And as far as we know, they have not gone
the church.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
As I say these words, Dea is still missing. We
can't even say whether she's dead or alive. It's easy
to get caught up in the chaos of DEA's story,
people turning on each other, wild theories that are almost
too wild to believe. There is, after all, a special
(13:38):
kind of ugliness that rears its head when money's involved.
But I keep coming back to the fact that at
the center of all of this is a woman who
one day in twenty twenty just suddenly disappeared from her
own home. One moment she was there, the next moment
(13:59):
she was not. And that, regardless of who, or how
or why, is truly heartbreaking. For now, all that remains
is a group of people racing to find out the
truth in their own way, racing against the clock. As
one very important date swiftly approaches. More on that. After
(14:26):
the break in the background of all of these searches
(14:50):
and theories, a date is fast looming. Sixth of June
twenty twenty five. That's the day the Deer will be
declared dead. Her estate will be split up fifty percent
to Harper, twenty five percent to Clinton, and twenty five
percent Chris, her daughter. It's hard to imagine that the
(15:13):
date isn't on everyone's mind like some ticking time bomb,
because if any of those three are found to be
involved in Deer's disappearance, they get nothing. While Harper search
with dogs and psychics, Clinton focused on tactics. He pushed
(15:38):
for some of Deer's property to be liquidated, and with
those funds, the court appointed guardian who represents Deer's estate,
set up a tip hotline, and a three hundred thousand
dollars reward was established for anyone with information leading to
an arrest and conviction or the discovery of Deer's whereabouts.
(16:03):
But this wasn't just any old reward, oh No, this,
as Clinton explained to me, was a trap for Harper.
Speaker 14 (16:20):
Well, the way I structured it was that the reward
was going to be the bait, and it would be
made manifest that he was involved in my mother's disappearance
and he wouldn't get anything, and we'd have the case
solved and we'd have him removed.
Speaker 8 (16:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So was it your idea then, to because there's that
really interesting caveat where if one party is found to
have an involvement, everything goes to the other party. Was
that your suggestion?
Speaker 9 (16:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
That was me.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Oh wow, okay.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
That was my little trap strategy, but it backfired.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Despite his efforts, Clinton has never been able to pin
anything on Harper, and now Harper is in Lyne to
get fifty percent of his mother estate. It was a gamble,
Clinton admits, and now he regrets it. He gambled too much.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Ah, and I couldn't believe that I compromised with Yeah
the devil.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
When that little trap didn't work, Clinton tried something else.
He attempted to work with Harper directly. Harper sent me
a screenshot of their conversation, and this is what Clinton
texted him. Harper, you want to deal. What is the deal? Clinton?
(17:46):
I want you to flip on all the others. I
can get you off free. This can't stay secret forever.
You are getting older. I'm not after you for anything
related to Dea. We can work out finances so you
are happy if you have real information on what happened
to Dea. I just want to know. I was definitely
(18:08):
quite surprised. It felt like a pretty brazen move from Clinton.
Why do you think he's saying that.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
This is what?
Speaker 8 (18:24):
You know?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I thought originally he was asking to kind of work together.
And then what I got the more I got into it,
what he's asking. It's for me to come forward and
(18:50):
and kind of tell him that I'm responsible, and then
he has something to go back to law enforcement with.
You know, It's what I kind of got.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Clinton insists that he was just trying to get information
out of Harper. Either way, Harper does not fall for
Clinton's booby trap. It all feels like a strange loop,
but it's almost satisfying. These two sides who've been at
war trying to pin the blame, okay, still trying to
(19:25):
pin the blame on each other, coming together to try
to work out some kind of deal. Despite all of
Clinton's strategizing, nothing really seems to happen to Harper until
in November twenty twenty three, the same month as Kelly's search,
Harper ends up getting into hot water all by himself.
(19:49):
He gets himself kicked off the ranch. Harper tects a
real estate agent asking if she's interested in listing the
ranch for sale. Word gets out that Harper is trying
to sell DIA's ranch, even though he doesn't have the
authority to do so. Five days later, a judge removes
(20:12):
Harper as trustee of DEA's estate just like that. Later
that month, eviction notices are posted outside the ranch. It
seems Harper's time a Benita Vista is up. He denies
trying to sell the ranch and considers fighting the decision.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
The purpose was determine the value. What is the value
finally of the property and anyway to judge the spot. Yeah,
it looks like you weren't tending to list it, and
I said, now it's not. And anyway, that's how I
got removed from trustee.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Eventually, Harper packs his bags and leaves. Even though he's
removed as trustee, it doesn't affect him potentially getting half
of DEA's assets. I call him as he once more
is doing that long, long drive from Idlewild across the
deserts of Arizona into New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
I left the lands today.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Wow, how does that feel?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
You know? With the tough, tough, tough thing. But the
situation you get either you work with the court or
you work against them, and they can they can take
away all your privileges, you know.
Speaker 15 (21:46):
Oh, after long consideration, can't. Some time, I decided to leave,
And so my concern is this that if I'm gone,
they will never work at finding her.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I keep imagining Benita Vista Ranch now that Harper's gone,
those impressive Western style gates locked and chained shut, deers
antiques gathering dust, the endless land stretching towards the mountains,
slowly growing wild. I wonder how Dea would have felt
(22:31):
her pride and joy, her home sitting empty. Soon it
could be sold to some stranger who will probably fit
it out in that modern dude ranch style, and every
trace of deer will be gone. But what happens to
the people in her life, what happens to that vacuum
(22:54):
she left behind, will be right back in some way
(23:26):
or another. DEA's disappearance has shaped the life of everyone
in this podcast, including mine. As I wound down my reporting,
it felt right to touch base with them all, to
see how they were moving on, how they were finding closure.
I'll start with the one silver lining I found in
(23:47):
all this mess. DEA's siblings Peggy and Jim had told
me how much they missed their niece and nephew, Chrissara
and Clinton, how sad they were that their family was estranged,
and so I spoke to Clinton and I suggested perhaps
he might want to reconnect with his aunt and uncle,
(24:08):
given that his father was dead and his mother was
still missing. Eventually he gave them a call.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable seeing just to see
our nephew.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
This is Peggy Kenchlo dear sister.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
And if any anything came out of this tragedy, it's
this that we have. That we have our nephew back.
We have him, we have him back. He's our kid.
You know, I'm sorry about whatever horrible thing happened to
my sister. I am, but we have my nephew back.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Peggy's trying hard to move on despite the toll it's
taken on her and her family.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
It's an emotional Katrina, you know it came in, It
washed everything out.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
She's not the only one who felt like things fell
apart when dear disappeared.
Speaker 14 (25:07):
It's been a four years years of NonStop obsession of
the mind and the gravitational pull that I cannot seem
to extricate myself from no matter how hard I try,
I just have to have to do something to always
try and move the ball forward.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Thanks to his years of research, Clinton's developed a theory
about Harper and about what happened to his mother.
Speaker 14 (25:38):
To me, he's culpable, he's guilty, but he's also serves
as the patsy, as the fall guy and its low
hanging fruit. He's the easy, easy guy to pin this on.
And I think there are so many other people involved
and so many other people who know. And I think
(26:01):
as long as law enforcement doesn't pursue those other angles
and ask, you know, deeper questions, I don't think they'll
ever solve the case.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Clinton doesn't believe that Harper is solely to blame for
DEA's disappearance.
Speaker 14 (26:17):
Yeah, I don't give too much credit to Keith Harper.
I don't think he's a criminal mastermind. I think he
did buffoon. I think focusing too much on him. It
just it's just too narrow of the perspective.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
His theory is that a motorcycle gang took Dear, an underground,
sinister intelligence operation that has access to high tech surveillance equipment.
He believes Harper struck a deal with this gang. Let's
go with your theory for a minute. If she's kidnapped
(26:56):
and she's killed by somebody who isn't Harper, what is
the motive, Like, what are they getting out of it?
Speaker 14 (27:08):
They're getting one hundred and fifteen acre ranch and millions
of dollars in antiques, jewelry, and I think the actual
property was desired. I think there was a I think
there was a deal amongst multiple people to.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Split the spoils of war, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Clinton believes this gang would be able to access Deer's
assets through Harper, but there is of course no evidence
to prove this. When I first interviewed Clinton, we met
in San Diego, out in the open at a coffee shop,
(27:53):
but that's the last time we met face to face
since his mother disappeared. He seems to have become increasingly paranoid,
sending me hundreds of emails with what he says is
evidence he's being herd. He's convinced his house is bugged,
that he's under surveillance by this gang who killed Dia.
Speaker 14 (28:17):
I've received a tremendous amount of harassment. Well, I've had
buried pornography left on my mailbox. I've received unmarked packages
that contain very obscure threats and also direct threats. I've
had loud motorcycles that have basically, you know, kind of
(28:40):
followed me and stopped me for a number of years.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Clinton is adamant that the same people who killed his
mother are out to get him.
Speaker 14 (28:52):
I believe it was, you know, a message to me,
you know, we can get to you too, and I
tortuly understand that it, you know, sounds crazy to most people.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I don't know whether Clinton is paranoid or if he
is truly being harassed by some kind of gang. But
he was sent this really crazy package. I've seen pictures
of it. The envelope didn't have proper postage, so it
was likely hand delivered. On the front, it said important
(29:28):
information about Lydia Kenschloe Abrams. There were all these court
documents inside about rich people who disappeared in mysterious circumstances
and the fights that ensued over their money. There was
a letter to which made some pretty far fetched claims.
(29:50):
It read, the reason for this letter is anonymous because
the FBI is criminally corrupt. They will a death sentence
for innocent people to cover up themselves, leaving you with
no one and nowhere to turn the authorities cannot find body.
(30:14):
The letter ended with an ominous line, we are really
interested to see how you act when you get this letter,
because it will tell us a lot about all of you.
To this day, Clinton has no idea who sent this
or if they might be involved in Deer's disappearance, but
(30:35):
understandably it freaked him out. I mean, how concerned have
you been for your family safety?
Speaker 14 (30:45):
Extremely concerned, very concerned.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And have you thought about just stopping your search?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (30:56):
I have.
Speaker 14 (30:59):
I don't know if I can move on so long as.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
We don't have answers.
Speaker 14 (31:08):
So frustrating is that I know that people know, but
they just won't say.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
The fact that half of Deer's estate will go to
her maybe maybe not fiance Keith Harper would be a
bitter pill for me to swallow.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
It's never been about to me what I get.
Speaker 14 (31:29):
But the principle that he gets fifty percent when I
know that he knows what happened to her and is involved,
is disgusting. My mother always told my sister and I,
this is for you kids, This is for you.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Know.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I'm building this for you, guys. I hope you cherish it.
Speaker 14 (31:49):
And I know she poured her heart and soul into
that property to an extreme extent and just loved it wholeheartedly.
And the fact that it's going to be liquidated just
instantaneously and split amongst all parties bricks my mind. Heart
(32:11):
And the fact that Keith Harper, in my view, a scumberg,
gets fifty percent. I'd rather go to anybody but him.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
It's strange to think back to when I first started
investigating Deer's disappearance. I was so desperate for Leeds to
speak to someone who knew her, and I got what
I wanted. I've had these two men who knew her
well bombarding me with theories that feel so big, so outlandish,
(32:44):
that they can't possibly be true, can they. When I
first interviewed Harper, he told me he didn't know what
happened to Dea, that perhaps she'd run off. Later, he
told me he couldn't understand how the surveillance tapes on
DEA's ranch hadn't captured what had happened to her. And
(33:08):
then as he began working with Kelly's psychics, Hopper changed
his story. He told me that the surveillance tapes had
captured what had happened, that three people had kidnapped her,
and he'd watched it all. Even now, it's hard to
pin him down to one concrete story. What now, Like,
(33:35):
do you think you're ever going to get closure about
what happened?
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Like?
Speaker 6 (33:39):
How long are you going to fight for?
Speaker 13 (33:41):
How long are you going to.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Keep until she is bobbed forward? And that could happen
in the next of what weeks? So let's say, let's
say body is found.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Do you feel confident that a perpetrator is also going
to be brought to justice?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yeah, okay, I think once we've put Clinton under investigation,
he will prayer.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
For now. Harper is living in Colorado, although he still
owns his eighty five acres of land in a remote
corner of Arizona. He's filed a motion to get half
a million dollars out of Deer's estate. Half he says,
is to compensate for the time he spent working on
the ranch. The other half is paying that money he
(34:35):
says he put into the ranch while he lived there.
As for Julie Stamford, she felt like Idlewild changed after
her friend went missing. It didn't feel like this safe,
idyllic community anymore. Julie told me she was scared, scared
(34:56):
that she knew something she wasn't supposed to know, and
so she left and moved away halfway across the world.
She's haunted by memories of her friend.
Speaker 6 (35:12):
I don't know it, just it's judged that I couldn't
rescue her at this time.
Speaker 7 (35:20):
That was skin killing me, is that I couldn't rescue
her this time.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
At first, Julie was stuck between theories.
Speaker 7 (35:29):
So to me, the viable suspects are the kids or
Harper all along, I find it toe to one of those.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Julie remembers a telling remark dea mate sometime after Dia
had changed her trust to include Harper. She can't remember
if Dia told her first hand or if she heard
it from a mutual friend, but what.
Speaker 6 (35:51):
She said when she did the paperwork, she goes, here's your.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
Damn Ranch Harper. Wow, Yeah, like she was blugging her
for it. I think he just wanted stuff. He always
wanted that.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
It's memories like this that caused Julie to change her
mind about Clinton and Chrissara and turn her attention to Harper.
Speaker 7 (36:19):
There might be no reason for the kids to do
anything George because they were already off the will. So
my basic feeling now, I didn't want to take this
in the beginning because.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
I liked Harper, because Harper was helping Dia. But that's
not the feeling I have about him now.
Speaker 7 (36:37):
I think Harper is responsible for DIA's disappearance, and.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
I frankly am afraid of him.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Can I record this conversation?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
You can always record the conversation and nothing to hide.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Right before we release this series, I gave Harper one
more call. With so many fingers pointed at him, I
felt like I needed to talk to him again, and
I questions of my own. I wanted to ask. Even
in our conversations over the years, I've noticed discrepancies in
things that you have told me, contradictions, and so it
(37:28):
doesn't look good. I've got to be honest. It doesn't
look great.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Then why are you talking to me there?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Because I'm I'm a journalist, and it's my job to
get all.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Sides of bring out, bring out specific things. Let's start
about get okay.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
So I brought out specific things. I asked him if
there was something more to his friendship with.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Diana fetder No.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I asked him why he changed his story about the
security camera footage on the ranch.
Speaker 16 (38:05):
I was advised by the attorney that I was to
examine that, but I was not to say anything until
after the investigation was completed.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
I asked him about leaving town so soon after Dea
went missing.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I have told multiple times why I leave.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
To pay a tax bill?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
What was happening? What was happening On the day that
that investigation was to happen.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
The cops were going to show up and search the ranch.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
They were going to come up and sew serrants. They
had called and they said we will clow serrants down
when we arrived. Any vehicle that you have on the
property must be removed or will say what would you do?
Speaker 1 (38:52):
So if you knew how this was going to play
out and you were going to be suspected, would you
have stayed?
Speaker 3 (39:01):
I didn't suspect that I thought we were dealing with
a missing person.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Harper has an answer for all of it and insists
everything I've been told is pure speculation.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Where the fact you'd think that facts would have come
in the play facts doesn't play anything. It's strictly speculation.
And that's what drives me crazy, is people speculate and
it becomes fact.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
And perhaps he has a point. As far as I know,
there is no hard evidence. So it seems like the
only way this thing is going to get resolved is
if her body is found.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Exactly. That's why we're moving in here to get that done. Okay, Well,
and if I were guilty of her murder, would I
move ahead and try to find her body? And shall
have I been investigating that from the very beginning? Yes,
I am.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Harper is pushing Kelly to go back to the spot
where the search dogs alerted this time to dig since
as far as Harpeneau's the Riverside Sheriff's Department hasn't.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
So they should be held at Cannibal for what they
have not done. Since his case should have been solved
in the first year and a half, it has gone
on for now four and that's a year.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
His frustration with the police is palpable. And he's not
the only one either. The Riverside Sheriff's Department has made
some puzzling decisions throughout this case. I've heard this from
nearly everyone I've spoken with, like Julie for example.
Speaker 17 (40:50):
And it's the police That's what made me angry is
they never wanted to interview any of us that were
closed up, so it seemed like they didn't follow through
it dune.
Speaker 6 (41:03):
Some aspects and that was very maddening.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Carmen Ibanez, DEA's neighbor, who runs the Christian youth camp,
said something similar. She told me Detective Alberta Lorero, the
lead investigator on DEA's case, took three years, three years
to interview her.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I mean, I've been talking more by more people like
you and other people than I have been talk to
by police, and you know, it's.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
Just it's kind of sad.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
You know, I try to be nice, But the rest
of my staff say, is police incompetence? Because why wouldn't
you Why wouldn't you just talk to the neighbor. Isn't
that the first people you want to talk to? You
would think that they'd be more more effort put into it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I've also been frustrated by the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.
I've tried desperately to find out what leads, if any,
they have, but they've declined to confirm any information about
the investigation. So I'm left with a bunch of what ifs.
What if the cops had shown up sooner? Will we
(42:15):
know what lay beneath the dirt the deer's dog, Ruby
laid down on and wouldn't budge from what was in
Harper's r V that Diana says was searched. Was the
meadow really overgrown? And if it was, where does that
leave Harper and his alibi? What if he'd never been
allowed to leave the ranch? It's strange. Carmen told me
(42:37):
that despite the close knit nature of Idlewild, this small
town whose mayor is a Golden retriever, there are still
no answers about what happened.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Everybody hears everything, so that's the thing that's the word
spreads really quickly. Even though that people pretend like they
don't know anything.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Everybody knows about everybody.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, so it kind of makes it even more strange
that nobody seems to know what happened exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I mean, it's very frustrating, I.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Just for the sake.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I mean, I don't care what she's done in her life.
I don't think anybody deserves that.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
I've been wondering how I can wrap up this story
after four years of reporting, when I know I'll always
have a few niggling questions at the back of my mind.
That's the problem. When you report a story about someone
who's not here to tell their version, You're left with
that vacuum. You're left trying to appear at a blurry
(43:39):
picture that will never quite come into focus. There is
one final loose end on my mind. The other coordinate
the psychics came up with way way back in Kelly
Snyder's original report, the one in the middle of nowhere
(44:00):
in Arizona, because I mapped it out and I cross
reference with the report from Clinton's PI, the part where
he mapped out the route Harper took according to the
cell phone towers that Harper's phone pinged. And if I
take that PI report in good faith and I'm buying
(44:21):
into the whole psychics thing, then Harper was in the
same region as a psychics coordinate. When he left Ear's
ranch on that Monday morning and drove all the way
to New Mexico in his RV, I asked Kelly Snyder,
and he can't remember why they haven't searched the area,
(44:43):
especially because his helicopter, search dogs, dive team, his entire
search crew are based in Arizona. I try and persuade
him to send a team out as long as I
can tag along. Of course, so as much as I'd
like to think I can just walk away, I'll be
keeping in touch with Kelly just in case he ever
(45:05):
does decide to search that Arizona location. And when June sixth,
twenty twenty five comes around, I'll be giving Harper and
Clinton a call, just in case. Where's Dear is written
(45:48):
and hosted by me Lucy Sheriff. Our producer is Daphne Chen,
editing by Karen SHAKERGI production assistance from Joey Fish, ground
fact checking by Lauren Vespoli. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith.
Original School sound design and mastering by Echo Shaws. Special
(46:14):
thanks to Sophie Crane, Amy Gains McQuaid, Nina Lawrence, Kira Posey,
Jordan McMillan, Owen Miller, Jake Flanagan, Sean Carney, Carrie Brody,
Eric Sandler, Christina Sullivan, Sarah Nix, and Greta Cone. Additional
thanks to my partner Maurice and my agent, Joy Folks
(46:37):
at the Gernert Company. To read more about DEA's case,
check out David Godfridson's reporting at CBS eight. Where's Dea
is a co production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia. I'm
Lucy Sheriff, a
Pushkin last time on Where's Dea?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I think we just got called over to put all
kinds of footprints everywhere and to just damage the crime scene. Basically.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
You know, in my opinion, they've always known it was
a mother because the video shows that.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Why the video that was here at the lane.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
One day, about three years after Dia went missing, the
Riverside Sheriff's Department made a dramatic move around a police
cars swarmed beneath a Vista ranch. A white and green
sheriff's helicopter flew above. Local CBS news reporter David Godfredson
(01:20):
rushed to the scene to report the unfolding events.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Neighbors woke up early Sunday morning to the sound of
a sheriff's helicopter flying over Dia Abrams Ranch near Idlewild.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
The cops demanded through a loudspeaker that Keith Harper come outside.
They handed him a search warrant and on a large trailer.
The cops carted in a heavy back home, presumably to dig.
Speaker 6 (01:53):
Did you hear what happened a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 7 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah, they went in a helicopter and all that,
you know, which was like ray Finally.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Julie Stanford is DEA's longtime Idle Wild friend. When I
spoke to her in Octoba twenty twenty three, the cops
had just searched the ranch for her. It felt like
a glimmer of hope.
Speaker 7 (02:16):
They left that thing out, because how could they go
there in today? Did the helicopter and all the police
Hopefully they have something.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
This all happened three years after Dia disappeared. I couldn't
help but wonder what information the cops had that made
them search the ranch again. They would have had to
show probable cause to get that search warrant, that a
crime had likely occurred on the ranch and that evidence
of the crime was going to be found there. Though
(02:50):
when I tried to get a copy of the warrant
from Riverside Superior Court, they told me there wasn't one
for that date and redirected me to the one from
twenty twenty. I don't know what the cops found at
the ranch, if anything, because they haven't responded to my
(03:10):
questions about it. But what I do know is Harper
wasn't arrested and he continued living at Bunita Vista. It
felt like a huge anticlimax this sudden flurry of activity
and then once again pretty much nothing as far as
I could tell. Unlike the cops, Clinton, Abrams, dear Son,
(03:38):
and Harper have been willing to share what they've discovered
along the way. Clinton has interviewed people who knew Dea
and followed all kinds of leads, leads that even I
thought were too outlandish to pursue. As for Harper, well,
he's still working with those psychics. In our season finale,
(04:02):
where things stand today, as the search for Dea continues,
I'm Lucy Sheriff, and this is Where's Deer? Episode six,
Spoils of War.
Speaker 8 (04:32):
The food is in my truck and the waters in
my truck.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I have a case of water on the boat, and
I have a fifty five gallon cooler on the boat.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You might remember Kelly Snyder from an earlier episode. He's
the former Dea agent who runs Find Me, the nonprofit
that searches for missing people.
Speaker 9 (04:49):
You didn't get the word that I brought five hundred
bottles of water.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right around the time the police showed up at the ranch.
Last year, Kelly, Harper and some others embarked on a
search for Deer's body Keith.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
You ready, I was out of.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
The country, so one of my producers, Jacob, tagged along instead. Yeah,
the team was going to search the same lake the
cops had searched years earlier with their sonar equipment and divers,
although the FIMI group was focusing on the shoreline of
the reservoir rather than the murky lake bed. And actually
(05:33):
this was Harper and Kelly's second time going to this
particular part of Lake Hemnett. They'd gone three months earlier
with cadaver dogs and there'd been a promising development. The
dogs had shown interests.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
Here, and when you have three dogs showing interests in
this same exact area, then that's telling you something to
indicate that more than likely there's human remains in this vicinity.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
But it wasn't just the dog's reaction that brought them
back to this spot. Like I mentioned before, Kelly's network
of psychics share coordinates of where they thought deer could
be buried, and this spot in Lake Hemmett was one
of them, so they felt like this place had potential.
(06:23):
On the first search, though they couldn't reach the area
where the dogs showed interest.
Speaker 8 (06:28):
The hall is approximately thirty to forty feet deep, and
at a time we didn't have the dog's harnesses to
lower them into the area. This time, we brought our
boat and we're going to approach the area from the
lake and then the dogs can walk easily into the
hall where we believe that dea abrams remains are either
(06:48):
buried or somewhere in that vicinity.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
This time around, they approached the spot from two different angles.
The dogs and their handlers go by boat, Harper, Kelly
and Jacob go by land, hiking towards the embankment.
Speaker 10 (07:09):
The next one, you see where that rod's coming down
from the telephone pole.
Speaker 8 (07:14):
Yeah, that's what I was zeroing in on.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
The search team reaches the shore and the dogs do
their thing. After some time, the dog handler's hike over
to Harper and Kelly to give them an update. Their
dog Soul detected something.
Speaker 11 (07:36):
Full alert from soul.
Speaker 6 (07:38):
I got full alert from soul.
Speaker 10 (07:41):
If you've got a full blown alert, then then uh,
that is a body.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
But there's the cadaver dogs alerted to some kind of
human presence. But as one of the dog handlers points out,
the dog could be picking up on anything with a
trace of what's referred to as human decomposition, basically the
senten that's emitted by human remains.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Don't you ass panties, diapers, tampons.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
We're all over this lake without digging, there's no way
to know exactly what's there, and Kelly won't dig without
the cops present, and so reluctantly they have to stop there.
Kelly will take note of their coordinates and send them
over to the cops, hoping they'll return to the site
(08:37):
and continue the search. Kelly and Harper are disappointed, to
say the least, and somewhat surprised. They look down the
embankment towards the lake at a washout of fallen trees
and debris.
Speaker 8 (08:55):
I would have given money on this spot, though, I
mean that to me, that's just perfect.
Speaker 12 (09:01):
But see where I would I would do it right
down in here.
Speaker 10 (09:07):
But how do you get there? Well, there's a trail.
Speaker 9 (09:10):
I know there's a trail, but holy shit, you're carrying
a body, Keith.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Throughout this search, Kelly has been on and off the
phone with one of his psychics. She's been advising them
on where she thinks Dia is buried.
Speaker 12 (09:25):
I would tell her to summon Stea if she's a
bet of one sea if she can see us.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Kelly calls his psychic one last time, just in case
DIA's given her any extra guidance.
Speaker 10 (09:41):
Pretty much, she said. Dia didn't come to her. God
damn it, ah she asked her to.
Speaker 9 (09:52):
And that was what two three hours ago.
Speaker 7 (10:01):
Shit.
Speaker 12 (10:04):
I feel ten times more better if we just do
without one site.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Harper has fixated on one particular spot that the psychics
pinpointed and that he previously marked with flax. He wants
the dogs to search it again.
Speaker 12 (10:22):
I just don't want to pass up an opportunity that
could well, yeah.
Speaker 9 (10:26):
Well I understand where you're coming from, but that's not
where the dog showed interest. That's the only reason I
would say would discount it. That it would be not
necessarily a waste of time.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
But.
Speaker 12 (10:43):
It's just if you have if you have someone a
psyche telling you that it's in between certain flags and
it's all in this area, would it hurt to spend
another hour or two just search in the general area
one more time?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
But Harper is vetoed, and so the search party and
Jacob DeCamp back to Benita Vista Ranch to try and
unpack the day and have so much needed lunch.
Speaker 8 (11:13):
Can I get some frecking bread here? Pretty soon he's
working on it.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Man, dude, calm down.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
One of the dog handlers takes out his phone and
shows the group a video of the spot where the
dog alerted. Harper gets agitated.
Speaker 10 (11:28):
Okay, that was that a location of where the body was.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
It was a location of something.
Speaker 10 (11:36):
I don't need to hear this, well, need to hear
more specific. Do we have a location where we believe
that she is.
Speaker 11 (11:45):
We have a location where we believe something is that's putting.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
After it's under a boulder.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
It's a boulder.
Speaker 11 (11:52):
I cannot say that that is a body and but
human dicon. I mean, my dogs are trained to alert
on a two a fragment of a bone, any blood tissue.
Speaker 10 (12:07):
So in your opinion, there's something.
Speaker 11 (12:10):
Something, something putting decomp off.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Finally, Harper seems to give up.
Speaker 10 (12:16):
So my understanding is that we're going to file a report.
Speaker 12 (12:21):
We're not going back out right.
Speaker 10 (12:23):
We're done.
Speaker 11 (12:24):
I don't think there's much we can do in that area.
I mean that we haven't already covered, unless we've got
new areas to search.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I debriefed with Kelly a few months after the search.
He was still confident that deer is buried in that lake,
Hemett's spot where the dog alerted. He tells me he
sent a second report to the Riverside Sheriff's Department, But
as far as I know, they've not taken any action.
Speaker 13 (12:54):
They have not gone back to search for our dogs,
who incidentally never never, never met say that there's something
human where they alerted two of our dogs, our best dogs,
And as far as we know, they have not gone
the church.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
As I say these words, Dea is still missing. We
can't even say whether she's dead or alive. It's easy
to get caught up in the chaos of DEA's story,
people turning on each other, wild theories that are almost
too wild to believe. There is, after all, a special
(13:38):
kind of ugliness that rears its head when money's involved.
But I keep coming back to the fact that at
the center of all of this is a woman who
one day in twenty twenty just suddenly disappeared from her
own home. One moment she was there, the next moment
(13:59):
she was not. And that, regardless of who, or how
or why, is truly heartbreaking. For now, all that remains
is a group of people racing to find out the
truth in their own way, racing against the clock. As
one very important date swiftly approaches. More on that. After
(14:26):
the break in the background of all of these searches
(14:50):
and theories, a date is fast looming. Sixth of June
twenty twenty five. That's the day the Deer will be
declared dead. Her estate will be split up fifty percent
to Harper, twenty five percent to Clinton, and twenty five
percent Chris, her daughter. It's hard to imagine that the
(15:13):
date isn't on everyone's mind like some ticking time bomb,
because if any of those three are found to be
involved in Deer's disappearance, they get nothing. While Harper search
with dogs and psychics, Clinton focused on tactics. He pushed
(15:38):
for some of Deer's property to be liquidated, and with
those funds, the court appointed guardian who represents Deer's estate,
set up a tip hotline, and a three hundred thousand
dollars reward was established for anyone with information leading to
an arrest and conviction or the discovery of Deer's whereabouts.
(16:03):
But this wasn't just any old reward, oh No, this,
as Clinton explained to me, was a trap for Harper.
Speaker 14 (16:20):
Well, the way I structured it was that the reward
was going to be the bait, and it would be
made manifest that he was involved in my mother's disappearance
and he wouldn't get anything, and we'd have the case
solved and we'd have him removed.
Speaker 8 (16:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So was it your idea then, to because there's that
really interesting caveat where if one party is found to
have an involvement, everything goes to the other party. Was
that your suggestion?
Speaker 9 (16:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
That was me.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Oh wow, okay.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
That was my little trap strategy, but it backfired.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Despite his efforts, Clinton has never been able to pin
anything on Harper, and now Harper is in Lyne to
get fifty percent of his mother estate. It was a gamble,
Clinton admits, and now he regrets it. He gambled too much.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Ah, and I couldn't believe that I compromised with Yeah
the devil.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
When that little trap didn't work, Clinton tried something else.
He attempted to work with Harper directly. Harper sent me
a screenshot of their conversation, and this is what Clinton
texted him. Harper, you want to deal. What is the deal? Clinton?
(17:46):
I want you to flip on all the others. I
can get you off free. This can't stay secret forever.
You are getting older. I'm not after you for anything
related to Dea. We can work out finances so you
are happy if you have real information on what happened
to Dea. I just want to know. I was definitely
(18:08):
quite surprised. It felt like a pretty brazen move from Clinton.
Why do you think he's saying that.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
This is what?
Speaker 8 (18:24):
You know?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
I thought originally he was asking to kind of work together.
And then what I got the more I got into it,
what he's asking. It's for me to come forward and
(18:50):
and kind of tell him that I'm responsible, and then
he has something to go back to law enforcement with.
You know, It's what I kind of got.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Clinton insists that he was just trying to get information
out of Harper. Either way, Harper does not fall for
Clinton's booby trap. It all feels like a strange loop,
but it's almost satisfying. These two sides who've been at
war trying to pin the blame, okay, still trying to
(19:25):
pin the blame on each other, coming together to try
to work out some kind of deal. Despite all of
Clinton's strategizing, nothing really seems to happen to Harper until
in November twenty twenty three, the same month as Kelly's search,
Harper ends up getting into hot water all by himself.
(19:49):
He gets himself kicked off the ranch. Harper tects a
real estate agent asking if she's interested in listing the
ranch for sale. Word gets out that Harper is trying
to sell DIA's ranch, even though he doesn't have the
authority to do so. Five days later, a judge removes
(20:12):
Harper as trustee of DEA's estate just like that. Later
that month, eviction notices are posted outside the ranch. It
seems Harper's time a Benita Vista is up. He denies
trying to sell the ranch and considers fighting the decision.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
The purpose was determine the value. What is the value
finally of the property and anyway to judge the spot. Yeah,
it looks like you weren't tending to list it, and
I said, now it's not. And anyway, that's how I
got removed from trustee.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Eventually, Harper packs his bags and leaves. Even though he's
removed as trustee, it doesn't affect him potentially getting half
of DEA's assets. I call him as he once more
is doing that long, long drive from Idlewild across the
deserts of Arizona into New Mexico.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
I left the lands today.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Wow, how does that feel?
Speaker 3 (21:28):
You know? With the tough, tough, tough thing. But the
situation you get either you work with the court or
you work against them, and they can they can take
away all your privileges, you know.
Speaker 15 (21:46):
Oh, after long consideration, can't. Some time, I decided to leave,
And so my concern is this that if I'm gone,
they will never work at finding her.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I keep imagining Benita Vista Ranch now that Harper's gone,
those impressive Western style gates locked and chained shut, deers
antiques gathering dust, the endless land stretching towards the mountains,
slowly growing wild. I wonder how Dea would have felt
(22:31):
her pride and joy, her home sitting empty. Soon it
could be sold to some stranger who will probably fit
it out in that modern dude ranch style, and every
trace of deer will be gone. But what happens to
the people in her life, what happens to that vacuum
(22:54):
she left behind, will be right back in some way
(23:26):
or another. DEA's disappearance has shaped the life of everyone
in this podcast, including mine. As I wound down my reporting,
it felt right to touch base with them all, to
see how they were moving on, how they were finding closure.
I'll start with the one silver lining I found in
(23:47):
all this mess. DEA's siblings Peggy and Jim had told
me how much they missed their niece and nephew, Chrissara
and Clinton, how sad they were that their family was estranged,
and so I spoke to Clinton and I suggested perhaps
he might want to reconnect with his aunt and uncle,
(24:08):
given that his father was dead and his mother was
still missing. Eventually he gave them a call.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable seeing just to see
our nephew.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
This is Peggy Kenchlo dear sister.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
And if any anything came out of this tragedy, it's
this that we have. That we have our nephew back.
We have him, we have him back. He's our kid.
You know, I'm sorry about whatever horrible thing happened to
my sister. I am, but we have my nephew back.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Peggy's trying hard to move on despite the toll it's
taken on her and her family.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
It's an emotional Katrina, you know it came in, It
washed everything out.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
She's not the only one who felt like things fell
apart when dear disappeared.
Speaker 14 (25:07):
It's been a four years years of NonStop obsession of
the mind and the gravitational pull that I cannot seem
to extricate myself from no matter how hard I try,
I just have to have to do something to always
try and move the ball forward.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Thanks to his years of research, Clinton's developed a theory
about Harper and about what happened to his mother.
Speaker 14 (25:38):
To me, he's culpable, he's guilty, but he's also serves
as the patsy, as the fall guy and its low
hanging fruit. He's the easy, easy guy to pin this on.
And I think there are so many other people involved
and so many other people who know. And I think
(26:01):
as long as law enforcement doesn't pursue those other angles
and ask, you know, deeper questions, I don't think they'll
ever solve the case.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Clinton doesn't believe that Harper is solely to blame for
DEA's disappearance.
Speaker 14 (26:17):
Yeah, I don't give too much credit to Keith Harper.
I don't think he's a criminal mastermind. I think he
did buffoon. I think focusing too much on him. It
just it's just too narrow of the perspective.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
His theory is that a motorcycle gang took Dear, an underground,
sinister intelligence operation that has access to high tech surveillance equipment.
He believes Harper struck a deal with this gang. Let's
go with your theory for a minute. If she's kidnapped
(26:56):
and she's killed by somebody who isn't Harper, what is
the motive, Like, what are they getting out of it?
Speaker 14 (27:08):
They're getting one hundred and fifteen acre ranch and millions
of dollars in antiques, jewelry, and I think the actual
property was desired. I think there was a I think
there was a deal amongst multiple people to.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Split the spoils of war, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Clinton believes this gang would be able to access Deer's
assets through Harper, but there is of course no evidence
to prove this. When I first interviewed Clinton, we met
in San Diego, out in the open at a coffee shop,
(27:53):
but that's the last time we met face to face
since his mother disappeared. He seems to have become increasingly paranoid,
sending me hundreds of emails with what he says is
evidence he's being herd. He's convinced his house is bugged,
that he's under surveillance by this gang who killed Dia.
Speaker 14 (28:17):
I've received a tremendous amount of harassment. Well, I've had
buried pornography left on my mailbox. I've received unmarked packages
that contain very obscure threats and also direct threats. I've
had loud motorcycles that have basically, you know, kind of
(28:40):
followed me and stopped me for a number of years.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Clinton is adamant that the same people who killed his
mother are out to get him.
Speaker 14 (28:52):
I believe it was, you know, a message to me,
you know, we can get to you too, and I
tortuly understand that it, you know, sounds crazy to most people.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I don't know whether Clinton is paranoid or if he
is truly being harassed by some kind of gang. But
he was sent this really crazy package. I've seen pictures
of it. The envelope didn't have proper postage, so it
was likely hand delivered. On the front, it said important
(29:28):
information about Lydia Kenschloe Abrams. There were all these court
documents inside about rich people who disappeared in mysterious circumstances
and the fights that ensued over their money. There was
a letter to which made some pretty far fetched claims.
(29:50):
It read, the reason for this letter is anonymous because
the FBI is criminally corrupt. They will a death sentence
for innocent people to cover up themselves, leaving you with
no one and nowhere to turn the authorities cannot find body.
(30:14):
The letter ended with an ominous line, we are really
interested to see how you act when you get this letter,
because it will tell us a lot about all of you.
To this day, Clinton has no idea who sent this
or if they might be involved in Deer's disappearance, but
(30:35):
understandably it freaked him out. I mean, how concerned have
you been for your family safety?
Speaker 14 (30:45):
Extremely concerned, very concerned.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And have you thought about just stopping your search?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (30:56):
I have.
Speaker 14 (30:59):
I don't know if I can move on so long as.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
We don't have answers.
Speaker 14 (31:08):
So frustrating is that I know that people know, but
they just won't say.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
The fact that half of Deer's estate will go to
her maybe maybe not fiance Keith Harper would be a
bitter pill for me to swallow.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
It's never been about to me what I get.
Speaker 14 (31:29):
But the principle that he gets fifty percent when I
know that he knows what happened to her and is involved,
is disgusting. My mother always told my sister and I,
this is for you kids, This is for you.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Know.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I'm building this for you, guys. I hope you cherish it.
Speaker 14 (31:49):
And I know she poured her heart and soul into
that property to an extreme extent and just loved it wholeheartedly.
And the fact that it's going to be liquidated just
instantaneously and split amongst all parties bricks my mind. Heart
(32:11):
And the fact that Keith Harper, in my view, a scumberg,
gets fifty percent. I'd rather go to anybody but him.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
It's strange to think back to when I first started
investigating Deer's disappearance. I was so desperate for Leeds to
speak to someone who knew her, and I got what
I wanted. I've had these two men who knew her
well bombarding me with theories that feel so big, so outlandish,
(32:44):
that they can't possibly be true, can they. When I
first interviewed Harper, he told me he didn't know what
happened to Dea, that perhaps she'd run off. Later, he
told me he couldn't understand how the surveillance tapes on
DEA's ranch hadn't captured what had happened to her. And
(33:08):
then as he began working with Kelly's psychics, Hopper changed
his story. He told me that the surveillance tapes had
captured what had happened, that three people had kidnapped her,
and he'd watched it all. Even now, it's hard to
pin him down to one concrete story. What now, Like,
(33:35):
do you think you're ever going to get closure about
what happened?
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Like?
Speaker 6 (33:39):
How long are you going to fight for?
Speaker 13 (33:41):
How long are you going to.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Keep until she is bobbed forward? And that could happen
in the next of what weeks? So let's say, let's
say body is found.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Do you feel confident that a perpetrator is also going
to be brought to justice?
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Yeah, okay, I think once we've put Clinton under investigation,
he will prayer.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
For now. Harper is living in Colorado, although he still
owns his eighty five acres of land in a remote
corner of Arizona. He's filed a motion to get half
a million dollars out of Deer's estate. Half he says,
is to compensate for the time he spent working on
the ranch. The other half is paying that money he
(34:35):
says he put into the ranch while he lived there.
As for Julie Stamford, she felt like Idlewild changed after
her friend went missing. It didn't feel like this safe,
idyllic community anymore. Julie told me she was scared, scared
(34:56):
that she knew something she wasn't supposed to know, and
so she left and moved away halfway across the world.
She's haunted by memories of her friend.
Speaker 6 (35:12):
I don't know it, just it's judged that I couldn't
rescue her at this time.
Speaker 7 (35:20):
That was skin killing me, is that I couldn't rescue
her this time.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
At first, Julie was stuck between theories.
Speaker 7 (35:29):
So to me, the viable suspects are the kids or
Harper all along, I find it toe to one of those.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Julie remembers a telling remark dea mate sometime after Dia
had changed her trust to include Harper. She can't remember
if Dia told her first hand or if she heard
it from a mutual friend, but what.
Speaker 6 (35:51):
She said when she did the paperwork, she goes, here's your.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
Damn Ranch Harper. Wow, Yeah, like she was blugging her
for it. I think he just wanted stuff. He always
wanted that.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
It's memories like this that caused Julie to change her
mind about Clinton and Chrissara and turn her attention to Harper.
Speaker 7 (36:19):
There might be no reason for the kids to do
anything George because they were already off the will. So
my basic feeling now, I didn't want to take this
in the beginning because.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
I liked Harper, because Harper was helping Dia. But that's
not the feeling I have about him now.
Speaker 7 (36:37):
I think Harper is responsible for DIA's disappearance, and.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
I frankly am afraid of him.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Can I record this conversation?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
You can always record the conversation and nothing to hide.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Right before we release this series, I gave Harper one
more call. With so many fingers pointed at him, I
felt like I needed to talk to him again, and
I questions of my own. I wanted to ask. Even
in our conversations over the years, I've noticed discrepancies in
things that you have told me, contradictions, and so it
(37:28):
doesn't look good. I've got to be honest. It doesn't
look great.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Then why are you talking to me there?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Because I'm I'm a journalist, and it's my job to
get all.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Sides of bring out, bring out specific things. Let's start
about get okay.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
So I brought out specific things. I asked him if
there was something more to his friendship with.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Diana fetder No.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I asked him why he changed his story about the
security camera footage on the ranch.
Speaker 16 (38:05):
I was advised by the attorney that I was to
examine that, but I was not to say anything until
after the investigation was completed.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
I asked him about leaving town so soon after Dea
went missing.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I have told multiple times why I leave.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
To pay a tax bill?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
What was happening? What was happening On the day that
that investigation was to happen.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
The cops were going to show up and search the ranch.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
They were going to come up and sew serrants. They
had called and they said we will clow serrants down
when we arrived. Any vehicle that you have on the
property must be removed or will say what would you do?
Speaker 1 (38:52):
So if you knew how this was going to play
out and you were going to be suspected, would you
have stayed?
Speaker 3 (39:01):
I didn't suspect that I thought we were dealing with
a missing person.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Harper has an answer for all of it and insists
everything I've been told is pure speculation.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Where the fact you'd think that facts would have come
in the play facts doesn't play anything. It's strictly speculation.
And that's what drives me crazy, is people speculate and
it becomes fact.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
And perhaps he has a point. As far as I know,
there is no hard evidence. So it seems like the
only way this thing is going to get resolved is
if her body is found.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Exactly. That's why we're moving in here to get that done. Okay, Well,
and if I were guilty of her murder, would I
move ahead and try to find her body? And shall
have I been investigating that from the very beginning? Yes,
I am.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Harper is pushing Kelly to go back to the spot
where the search dogs alerted this time to dig since
as far as Harpeneau's the Riverside Sheriff's Department hasn't.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
So they should be held at Cannibal for what they
have not done. Since his case should have been solved
in the first year and a half, it has gone
on for now four and that's a year.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
His frustration with the police is palpable. And he's not
the only one either. The Riverside Sheriff's Department has made
some puzzling decisions throughout this case. I've heard this from
nearly everyone I've spoken with, like Julie for example.
Speaker 17 (40:50):
And it's the police That's what made me angry is
they never wanted to interview any of us that were
closed up, so it seemed like they didn't follow through
it dune.
Speaker 6 (41:03):
Some aspects and that was very maddening.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Carmen Ibanez, DEA's neighbor, who runs the Christian youth camp,
said something similar. She told me Detective Alberta Lorero, the
lead investigator on DEA's case, took three years, three years
to interview her.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I mean, I've been talking more by more people like
you and other people than I have been talk to
by police, and you know, it's.
Speaker 6 (41:34):
Just it's kind of sad.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
You know, I try to be nice, But the rest
of my staff say, is police incompetence? Because why wouldn't
you Why wouldn't you just talk to the neighbor. Isn't
that the first people you want to talk to? You
would think that they'd be more more effort put into it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I've also been frustrated by the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.
I've tried desperately to find out what leads, if any,
they have, but they've declined to confirm any information about
the investigation. So I'm left with a bunch of what ifs.
What if the cops had shown up sooner? Will we
(42:15):
know what lay beneath the dirt the deer's dog, Ruby
laid down on and wouldn't budge from what was in
Harper's r V that Diana says was searched. Was the
meadow really overgrown? And if it was, where does that
leave Harper and his alibi? What if he'd never been
allowed to leave the ranch? It's strange. Carmen told me
(42:37):
that despite the close knit nature of Idlewild, this small
town whose mayor is a Golden retriever, there are still
no answers about what happened.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Everybody hears everything, so that's the thing that's the word
spreads really quickly. Even though that people pretend like they
don't know anything.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Everybody knows about everybody.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, so it kind of makes it even more strange
that nobody seems to know what happened exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I mean, it's very frustrating, I.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Just for the sake.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I mean, I don't care what she's done in her life.
I don't think anybody deserves that.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
I've been wondering how I can wrap up this story
after four years of reporting, when I know I'll always
have a few niggling questions at the back of my mind.
That's the problem. When you report a story about someone
who's not here to tell their version, You're left with
that vacuum. You're left trying to appear at a blurry
(43:39):
picture that will never quite come into focus. There is
one final loose end on my mind. The other coordinate
the psychics came up with way way back in Kelly
Snyder's original report, the one in the middle of nowhere
(44:00):
in Arizona, because I mapped it out and I cross
reference with the report from Clinton's PI, the part where
he mapped out the route Harper took according to the
cell phone towers that Harper's phone pinged. And if I
take that PI report in good faith and I'm buying
(44:21):
into the whole psychics thing, then Harper was in the
same region as a psychics coordinate. When he left Ear's
ranch on that Monday morning and drove all the way
to New Mexico in his RV, I asked Kelly Snyder,
and he can't remember why they haven't searched the area,
(44:43):
especially because his helicopter, search dogs, dive team, his entire
search crew are based in Arizona. I try and persuade
him to send a team out as long as I
can tag along. Of course, so as much as I'd
like to think I can just walk away, I'll be
keeping in touch with Kelly just in case he ever
(45:05):
does decide to search that Arizona location. And when June sixth,
twenty twenty five comes around, I'll be giving Harper and
Clinton a call, just in case. Where's Dear is written
(45:48):
and hosted by me Lucy Sheriff. Our producer is Daphne Chen,
editing by Karen SHAKERGI production assistance from Joey Fish, ground
fact checking by Lauren Vespoli. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith.
Original School sound design and mastering by Echo Shaws. Special
(46:14):
thanks to Sophie Crane, Amy Gains McQuaid, Nina Lawrence, Kira Posey,
Jordan McMillan, Owen Miller, Jake Flanagan, Sean Carney, Carrie Brody,
Eric Sandler, Christina Sullivan, Sarah Nix, and Greta Cone. Additional
thanks to my partner Maurice and my agent, Joy Folks
(46:37):
at the Gernert Company. To read more about DEA's case,
check out David Godfridson's reporting at CBS eight. Where's Dea
is a co production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia. I'm
Lucy Sheriff, a
Host
Lucy Sherriff
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