September 24, 2024 • 43 mins
In this special episode I get to sit down and chat with the man himself, Sammy Thaiday. Broncos Legend, State of Origin and Australia NRL rep, TV & Radio entertainer and one of my long-time friends.
In this open and candid interview Sammy puts it all on the table. From his early challenges with his identity, navigating success at an early age and having to figure it all out post the end of his professional sports career. He’s absolutely the funny man we know and love, but he’s also a passionate Dad and Husband, a bit of a poet and unafraid to face his own demons on his own Brave journey.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the
CEO Series. This series we launch into the new world
of brave leadership. Happy people create happy businesses, true emotionally
intelligent leadership. I've picked up vombit once on our about
our four flight and everybody thought, well, if it's good
(00:27):
enough for him, I can do it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and
some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth
behind their brave leadership journeys. Welcome to another episode of
Brave Always the CEO series. So this is actually a
pretty special one for me today. If you're from Queensland,
or you're an ERL fan, or probably any sporting fan.
(00:48):
This man needs no introduction, but he's played more than
three hundred n Ral games, twenty nine Origin matches, thirty
two Tests for the Kangaroos. Is a delim Award winner,
two time Premiership winner and a Rugby World Cup winner.
He's Alarican of football, the guy who once had a
giant curly mop, the guy I have seen way too
many times in a budguy, smuggler, but most importantly, someone
(01:09):
I've had the privilege of being friends with nearly fourteen years.
What come, mister Sammy Thurday.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Thank you for the backhanded compliments. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I had to mention the hair because.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I do have to. I didn't win a Daly Am.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I want a Dallly m Backrower of the Year. The
Daly is well, the Dallim is the best player in
the whole league. I want a positional I.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Just wanted to correct about it. We'll just let that go.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
No, no, because I told you I wasn't going to
lie to you today on this.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
All right, all right, fair enough? Where to start, Sammy?
This was an interesting one for me because I have
known you for so long and I thought this would
be super easy.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
You know me, but you don't.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Actually, Oh rah, well, Sammy born in Sydney, moved to
Townsville when you're four years old. I didn't know all
this stuff. And that's where you grew up in North Queensland.
Growing up in Townsville. What's the best thing about Townsville?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
For me? As a kid? Growing up in Townsville was great.
I was a sporty kid and there was a lot
of different sports around. I tried my hand at everything. Again,
having a lot of brothers to kind of place with.
We had cricket bats, basketball hoops, baseball bats. My poor
mum and dad. We had all the correct equipment when
it came to playing those sports as well. So there's
(02:15):
probably some still some holes in the firebroough sheeting in
the back of the house where the cricket ball the
baseball had hit the at the wall. I probably do
need to get up there and fix that for mum
and dad.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
They still have there.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, Mum and Dad's still in the house that we
kind of grew up in. You know. When we first
moved to Townsville, we're in defense housing, so we had
some pretty cool houses. And then Dad retired from the
Air Force and brought a house out at Kelso and
they've been living in that same house ever since.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah. Right, What was the worst thing about growing home
Townsville The heat?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It was always hot up there. I think now getting
out of Townsville and seeing different places. I've got some
fantastic mates who still live in Townsville and it's a
beautiful place and I love going back there and visiting.
But I do call Brisbane home now. I've lived in
Brisbane longer than I ever did live in Townsville, but yeah,
you can kind of feel a little bit stuck there sometimes,
(03:07):
and I think, yeah, moving to Brisbane as a seventeen
year old kid, you kind of open your eyes up
to the possibilities that there's a lot more things out there.
So again, beautiful little place forever growing Townshill and it
will always have a lovely place in my heart.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Was your dream to be drafted to the Cowboys?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, essentially I played for Towns or Brothers. Towns of
Brothers literally was out the back of the grandstand of
the old stadium Dairy Farmer Stadium, Stockland Stadium one three
hundred smiles Stadium. It had a few different names, a
few different sponsors over the years. But yeah, I was
lucky enough to play a few games there as a
young kid, Curtain Raisers to a couple of the Cowboys
(03:47):
games and would have loved to have been picked up
by the Cowboys, but it just didn't work out that
way and insane that too. Moving to Brisbane gave me
the chance opportunity to grow up and change and probably
needed to get off the teat a little bit.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I mean, you're a strong lad. Was fretty like do
you get sort of forced into footy. Was it a
footy family, Like, did you just have to play footy
or was that your thing? No, you've done something else.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It wasn't my thing.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Actually wasn't your thing.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
From the age of six to the age of twelve,
we participated in the little athletics. Our club was called
the Appeross Pandas Mum and dad volunteered and worked pretty hard.
I think mum was a treasurer at one point there.
But yeah, our small little club ran out of money
and it ceased to exist. So I've probably still got
some junior records at yeah, yeah, sixty meter hurdles still
(04:32):
shot put. Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
As a long term friend of yours, imagining you leaping
over a hurdles not an image really strongly.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I used to love actually, I used to love hurdles
when I was a kid. Really yeah. Yeah, that's a
strange sport. It is a strange sport. But yeah, I
wanted to go the Olympics when I was a kid.
That was my dream and goal. If it wasn't for
Upper ross Pandas shutting down, I wouldn't never played rugby league.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So well, speaking of like a big part of growing
up your mum and dad. So your dad is obviously
toy straight Aunger and your mum if I read coruickly
and I've met your lovely mum and dad. Mum's from
a farm girl from mister Australia.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Farm girl from Western Australi.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, I mean both very like your dad is, like
I would say, from what I've made of him, like
just the sweetest man. Like I feel like a lot
of your temperament must come from him. What did you
learn from mom? Because mom's a strong woman.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
My mum taught us how to fight, and she taught
us how to kick a footy. So again, farm girl
from Western Australia, so she grew up in shearing sheds. Yeah,
she knew how to fight with the best of them.
She always said, ye, let them have three punches first
and then you lay them out after that. Yeah, she's
a wild one, but at the end of the day,
she is the softest human being ever. She's all front.
(05:36):
But my grandfather, Arthur, he pretty much worked on the
farm till the day he passed away. He had four
daughters to help him out on the farm. I think
Mum's reasoning why she joined the air Force was because
she didn't want to live that farm life anymore, so
she kind of joined the air Force and that's where
she met dad. Dad wanted to travel and get out
(05:57):
of the Torres Strait and moved down. I think they
were based out at Wagga Wagga there for a little
while and that's where they met. Yeah, right, her dad
was doing a four hundred meters running around the track
with his shirt off and beautiful chocolate man.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
He is a beautiful chocolate man, speaking of wench like. Obviously,
Mum and Dad have very different cultural backgrounds. Yeah, so
did sort of coming from that mixed race family growing
up in Townswold. Was that a big deal and no
big deal at all?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Probably see an understanding a lot more now as a
an adult, But we were kids. We kind of just
went about it. But I could still remember Mum getting
a perm once because she just wanted to have curly
hair like us kids.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Are you serious?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
But again, you know, this is early nineties. There is
a few more kind of mixed race families in Townsville
than certain other places. But you know, still Mum would
get people looking at her and see, I just thought
it was the best thing ever. Because I kind of
lived the best of both worlds, and my dad with
a rich cultural heritage from the Torres Strait, and then
(06:55):
my mum, you know, she was a staunch farmer from
Western Australia, and I didn't see a lot of it,
but I'm sure there was probably some stairs and stuff
that both mum and dad would have had to have
copped in the chin and just went about their ways.
I'm un sure if anything was ever said to them
about being a mixed race couple, but there's always going
to be people out there that are going to cast
their judgment on people.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Did you ever wonder like where did you identify culturally? Like?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh, that was probably my biggest struggle ever was I
was too black to be white and I was too
white to be black sometimes, So you know, that was
a little bit of a struggle that I went through,
especially through my teens, and not knowing where you belong,
not knowing where you fit in. And I think that's
probably why I leaned so much into my sport. And
I going only speak personally for myself. I didn't encounter
(07:40):
any racism when it come to sport at all. I
was disabled to go out there and enjoy all the
sports that I loved. There was no judgment passed on
me at all. So you know, when racism creeps into sport,
I think it's absolutely terrible because it's always been such
a great equalizer for everyone where we've given everyone the
chance and the opportunity to show their ability and I
(08:02):
think if their ability is great and they're chosen sport,
what they should be praised for it. So I didn't
experience any myself, but.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, good, I agree sport is the great equalizer. So
you're seventeen years old when you get drafted to the Broncos,
I have to ask this, how does it work? Do
you a phone call or does like someone drive your
house and like there's balloons, like what happens.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
It's a bit of a weird process. So there was
a few different recruiters that came up to towns and
literally sat in our house and had a cup of
tea with Mum and dad and a few different conversations.
But I think when the Broncos came calling, it was
a perfect fit. And again the ability to stay in Queensland.
So growing up in a big family environment where four brothers,
he had friends and family uncles and Arnie's that would
(08:43):
just pop in and come over for dinner and a
cup of tea and come and stay a couple of
nights and whatever. I grew up in a really really
big family environment, so I didn't want to move to
Sydney or move down to Melbourne. They were just going
to be too far and then you know, cost to
travel and all those types of things. So when the
Broncos came calling, I was super pumped to get the
(09:03):
opportunity to play for them, and I actually signed my
Broncos contract in the car park of the old Dairy
Farmer Stadium, which was a big Yeah, it kind of
a big fe to the Cowboys at that point in time,
but they had no space for me up there. I
just knew that the opportunity to go to Brisbane and
(09:24):
play with some of the players that were already on
the roster was probably why I end up having the
career that I have, you know, and being coached by
Wayne Bennett, having the mentors at the time he was
a coach at the time, having mentors, you know, my
first year at the club, Andrew g was still there,
he still had Gordon Tallis was still around and then
you had Gordon the Raging Ball, Yeah, Shane Webke, Petrosisiva
(09:51):
and these guys were Queensland Australia players at that point
in time. So I think, yeah, in hindsight, the move
was essential for my career and if I didn't do it,
I probably wouldn't have had the career I had. But
looking it was a pretty cool moment that the team
that didn't want me, I'm signing a contract in the
car park of their stadium. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
But so you're still seventeen though, right, Like, how much
pressure did you film that moment? You're going to have
to move away from where you lived. There's a lot
of pressure in young people that coming through at that age.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah. Well I wasn't on that. I didn't have the
biggest contract in the world. On my first side. There
was a few like NRL bonuses in there if I
had made the NL team and played in a game,
but they were probably a lot higher than my contract
was in all honesty. So I think I got like
medical and then I had to apply for some living
(10:42):
away from home allowance and also some rental assistance. But
I think my first contract was like five thousand dollars
plus those things, and then if I played in an
NL game was like a five thousand dollars bonus. I
knew that I was coming down to play in the colts,
so they're under nineteens competition and my goal in that
(11:04):
first year was just to play a bit of reserve
grade footy if I could. So we played for the
tom of Clydes Dales at that point in time, that
was our feeder team in the NRAL, and I just
wanted to hopefully get a few games playing for them,
and it all kind of happened pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
My dead because four years later you wants win a premiership.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I debut was my first year at the club, which
was kind of funny because my first two months of training,
so I came down first to November, were just just
before I literally finished high school, graduated, went to our
graduation and then the next week I'm in Brisbane training
And in my first year I debuted for the Broncos.
(11:43):
I was eighteen in one month. Once I had a taste,
I was hooked, and it's funny the goals always changed
and you always move in the posts, and you know,
my goal was just to have a solid season in
the colts. In two thousand and three and play a
few games with Queensland Cup if I could, and I
that tick that, and then I ended up debuling for
(12:03):
the Broncos. I was like going to after So next
year I played one game. Next year I want to
play five games. Okay, the following year, I want to
be more consistent, play more games, maybe even get a
few starting positions. So forever, just reassessing goals, figuring out
what they are and trying to achieve them and push hard.
And yeah, very very early in my career, two thousand
(12:25):
and six we won a premiership. I was twenty one,
and yeah, it was probably the best year of my
rugular league career. They booed for Queensland that year. I
had my twenty first birthday in Origin camp, which was
a lot of fun. Yeah, and then we won the
premiership and then off the back of the team's success
side then get the opportunity to play for Australia at
(12:46):
the end of the year. I think it was a
Try Nations series with New Zealand and England. I think
I played twenty minutes for Australia in the game that
I dibuoed, and and that was enough. I'd kind of
I'd done everything in one year, which is pretty crazy
and pretty hectic. So and at such a young age
as well.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Such a young age, I mean, what was it about
the Broncos in the two thousand and six the year
and the premiership? What were they doing?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Like?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Is there something that a team does that you sort
of go That was the difference between why we won
that year and while we did in another years.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I look at the team now and I call it
our lasagna team because we had layers to it. When
you put a lasagna together and if it all matches, it's.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Just thinking about lasagna now.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah. See, that's why I brought it up, because I
know how much.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
You love food. Yeah, thanks, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, every little bit of a lasagna had to come
together for us to win that game. So we had
layers and depth within our team. So we had our
senior players and in your Darren Lockears and Shane Webke,
Petro Simin receiver, Brad Thorne, and then you know the
next kind of guys underneath them. You had Corey Parker,
you had Dane carl or Brent Tate, guys that had
(13:53):
kind of been there and done some stuff. In the
inner already, Justin Hodges as well, and then you had
the next kind of younger guys that were coming through
trying to have a crack. And it was myself, David Staggs, Daris,
you had Carmichael Hunt. We had such a well balanced yeah, yeah,
and you know, we had the experience of our older guys.
We had some guys that had been around and had
(14:14):
a taste of representative football as well, those middle chunks
of guys and then the bottom guys that the youth.
You know, myself, Carmichael, David Staggs, Darius Board. Where were
all these young kids bright eyed? I think it was
that was Darius's first year in the NL. We played
every game from Round one all the way to the
Grand Final, and you think you're going to be there
(14:35):
every year once you're a young kid, because we still
had majority of our squad around for a little while
after that. That was well, that was Shane Weep his last
game for the Broncos ever, and what a way to
send out a legend. But you know, I just thought
it was going to be easy and we're just going
to get to the Grand Final every year, and it
just kind of doesn't happen that way.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
No, what does happen when you lose games? Like I'm
always fascinated what was happening in the locker room? Like
is it a bit ted lasso like, you know, is
it positive thinking, lift you up, you're all doing well boys,
or is it sort of frustration and anger? Like what
does it way towards? Or is it just depend on
the coach?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well, everyone has their own different emotions, you know, from
a coach's point of view, like sometimes less is more.
I think Wayne Bennett talks about, you know, you've probably
only got two really good sprays every year and that's it.
So you know, where you come in, you absolutely rip
them a new one. I can still remember a moment
in time where Wayne Bennett came in. We were all
(15:28):
sitting in our little semicircle shape. His chair was right
in the middle. He sat down on it, and then
he looked at everyone. He stood up, and he walked out.
Didn't say a thing. We kind of knew at that
point in time.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, that's a silence, Yeah, like the naughty kid.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, but no, different people process it differently. Yeah, so
some guys in the locker rooms want to talk about
everything that happened in the game and really break it
down then and there when it's fresh in their mind.
Other guys want to get away and just kind of,
you know, we'll reassess on Monday type of thing. So, yeah,
(16:03):
different players is it differently, and you've got to kind
of know and understand which players are going to want
to have a talk to you about it, which players
are going to want to just brush it off. And
there are certain players that can kind of it's just
the game.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So the v of Brave is vulnerability. And I think
actually you've been incredibly vulnerable publicly, especially in the last
few years, about a number of things that we'll talk
about it later, but I want to talk about a
difficult moment your footy career. So obviously you were put
into captain c and then I think it was for
two seasons. Was its roughly? Yeah, like a rough a
year and a half, and then obviously you step down.
(16:39):
I'm assuming that was probably one of your more vulnerable
moments or overwhelming moments. Can you talk me through that
a bit.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, I had to take over the captaincy after Darren Lockyer. Yeah,
and I joke about it now, Jesus, I must have
been a good captain because they needed two to replace me,
so Corey Parker and Justin Hodges were my replacements after
that point in time. But I really struggled being the
captain of the team because I was unsure on what
type of leader I wanted to be within the team.
(17:06):
Without realizing I already was a leader and that's why
I was chosen to be captain. And in hindsight, it's
easy to look back and go, you're an idiot, but
you know, I tried to be every type of leader.
I tried to be the guy that was inspirational on
the field. I tried to be the guy that spoke
up at all the meetings. I tried to be the
guy that checked in on everyone. And then there were
(17:26):
times when I would walk around the chains rooms for
a game and I would have a conversation with sixteen
players about what their job was and if they were
ready to go, and without having the same conversation with myself.
I probably struggled a little bit too with not having
strong leaders around me as well. You know, previously, when
Darren Lockey was a captain, he had some great players
(17:47):
around him still, and there was a bit of a
change and a shift at the club with coaching staff,
and I really felt if Wayne Bennett is at the
Broncos at the time, I'm the captain. I think I
captained the team for a long period of time, but
you know, the support just wasn't there. So it was
very tough decision. This is again, that was one of
my goals to captain the Broncos and I got to
(18:10):
achieve it, which is brilliant and I will always be
known as a Broncos captain. But I wish I really
focused on myself more than other people when it came
to my captaincy and it was tough to front the
media and stand down.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
And how did you get through that?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I disappeared for a couple of days. Yeah, Rachel and
I and the girls, we went up the Sunshine Coast
for a couple of days and just kind of laid
low and got my head around it and just needed
to do some grounding.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Did you want to be like, screw it, I'm not
playing foot anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Don't worry. I've had plenty of those moments throughout my
career where you know, the easy option is to walk away,
And again, at the age of twenty one, I had
achieved everything I wanted to anyway, you know, with the
list you mate, except for captaining the club. You know,
I had kind of ticked every box already, so I
needed some time to process it and get away, spend
(19:03):
some time with family, some close friends, and then lucky
enough to have a game the following weekend.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
The thing is is that you are a natural leader.
I mean people always think of you that way, title
or not. I just think you kind of carried on
to be a leader of the Broncos leader.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So yeah, did.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It really matter that you had the title or not?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, that's the hardest thing. Sometimes as soon as someone
tells you you're a leader, Yeah, it tickles your ego
a bit. Yeah, and then you think you have to
start doing things that's different. Yeah, when Dale telling you
you're a leader for the things that you already do,
and you know, I look back on that now and
now I just try to be the best version of
Sam thought I can, whether it's doing the TV stuff
(19:42):
I do, whether it's the ambassador roles and that I do,
the charity work that I do. I just tried to
be the best version of myself, and that's all I
could be. And if people see that as being a leader,
thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
In footy when you were obviously earmarked when Darren was
leaving to take over captaincy, do you get put through
some kind of training or development to become a leader?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Not necessarily, not at all, which.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I find fast Yeah. Yeah, because as a leadership coach,
I'm like, you can't just throw people into that.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, And that's why I said that support system wasn't there.
If there was a different coaching staff there at the time,
I'm sure it would have been different. There was a
few changes happening at the Broncos, from coaching staff to
all the office staff. Things were changing at the club
and it was a time of big change. I think
this might have been the first time that Wayne left
the club. Yeah, so you know, he was the inaugural coach,
(20:33):
had been there from day one, right, he'd been there
from nineteen eighty eight, and yeah, he kind of everyone
find was weird times.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Forair, weird times. I want to talk about authenticity. It
was interesting one because I know a number of sides
of you, right, yeah, well your split persnel, and it
is first knowing that people who then will know they
might know you personally, will ask about you, or they
have an idea in the head who you are and
what you're like. And I know you know this, right,
So do you believe it's easy to be yourself truly
(21:04):
yourself all the time?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I have many selves though, and I think we all.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Have many I was actually trying to contact those, right,
because sometimes they want to put you in this category
of like Sammy the comedian, you know, which unfortunately you
are quite fuck Do.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You remember that we're at that rooftop at one time
and I was up on stage speaking yes, and this
was the first time you've ever saw at work y
like work properly worked, And what did you say to me?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I was like so impressed. I was like, oh my god,
you're not You're actually I was gonna say, was you're
really good at this?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, we're all smart at work, aren't we.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's correct, we don't go there. But yeah, there's a
different side to me, you're right. So I think what
I was reflecting on was when people go is he
always like that loud, funny you know, singing clean Dion songs,
you know, his pants are always off kind of character,
I'm like, yeah, he's definitely that. And he's like, then
is he the other guy who can be butit quiet
and reflective. Yeah, he can be that too.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I think Rachel gets the same questions asked. People think
that I'm intense because they knew me from football and
the way that I played on the football field. But
that was sam At the football player. And I think
growing up with brothers is like I always back my brothers.
I've got a tattoo on my chest it says one
brother bleeds, all brothers bleeds. So when I played football,
I was, you know, in New South Wales known as
(22:18):
third man thirday. He would come into every push and shove. Yeah,
but it doesn't mean that I'm that intense. At home.
I'm a father, my husband. I've got many hats, and
I think we all have many hats. And I show
up in every situation that I'm in my genuine self
for that situation. So I have many genuine.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Selves mileon, Yeah, very genuine. I like that.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, and I think that's what we have to be.
You have to show up to every occasion being our
genuine selves selves myself.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, A good answer, actually, all right, So that's good, alright.
Twenty eighteen. The thing you've been doing your whole life
comes from end. Yeah, all right, and I was round
fit period, remember going your last game and all the
weeks and the T shirt like and there's not a
sporting person. I honestly don't believe it doesn't go through
(23:10):
a period of like, well what now or who am I?
And I can only imagine given you started so young,
that was the same journey for you. Yeah, so what
surprised you about that period? What did you think it
was going to be like? And then wanted it actually.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Turned out to I didn't know. I had no idea.
You think you're prepared, but you're not really. I start
again started playing rugby league at the age of twelve.
All my friends at school played it. I think I
made the Townsville team in my first year and we
went and played against Cans and Mackay. I think the
following year made the North Queensland team and then I
(23:45):
was like, well, actually you are right at this. You
know it was a great way to focus anger and
frustration on other people and you could do it legally
on the forefield. I think that's why my mum loved
it so much. But I was fifteen when a school
teacher at Kerwin High School recognized some of the talents
that I had as a rugby league player. His name's
George Barlett. Absolutely love him. Spoke to him on the
(24:08):
phone the other day. He's a deputy principal now at
bean Lee High School here in Queensland. But if it
wasn't for him and recognizing some of the talents I
had and pretty much giving me a kick in the ass,
reiterated to me that I was super talented at rugby
league and if I actually gave it a crack and
really trained hard and applied myself, that I could probably
(24:31):
have a professional career. And he said to me, I'll
show up every day. You show up. And he had
to show up anyway because he was a teacher. He
had the keys of the gym. But for the next
kind of two years. It's in grade eleven and grade
twelve at school. I showed up and I did the
training early in the morning, and I had another friend,
(24:51):
Bevan Cameron, who would pick me up because it was
kind of you know, Mum had a household full of
My two younger brothers were there at the time. My
two older brothers had gone but she's like, I can't
drive you into school and then come back home and
get the boys ready to dive back in again. So
had a friend picked me up, Evan Cameron. He picked
me up in him and his dad. We went to
training every morning, got ready for you know, footy, and
(25:15):
I needed a bit of a push. I needed a
bit of a kick in the ass, and George was
a guy that did that for me. It was absolutely
push in the right direction that I needed.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So it's just so much though about the impact that
a good teacher or mentor can have on a child,
right because on the other side of the spectrum.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
There's a lot of shit teachers too. Yeah, and a
few as well. I loved science and biology at school.
I loved it and like fascinated with the human body.
But I had a science teacher who was nice to me,
and I was like, oh fuck science. That I never
did it again.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You see. I had an art teacher who told me
at eleven, laughed at my artwork, which is subjective, right,
isn't it? Isn't it and said to me, you're terrible
at art. And I never got over it, and I
quit anything creative until this day. I still say like,
if pictionary comes out, everyone in my team, I'm a
terrible drawer. Yeah, and it's like such a big impact.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes, no, so true. So you got to think from
the age of fifteen, after someone you know, giving me
the confidence enough to go, actually I am talented to
the age of I can't even do the mask. But anyway,
so from the year two thousand to the year twenty
eighteen when you retired, my whole identity was attached to
(26:32):
being a rugby league player. So for eighteen years of
my life was like that's who I was, that's what
I did, and that's who I am. So I think
walking away from rugby league at that point in time
was super hard because I still you know, I probably
kicked myself in the art for this one, but I
still thought I had a couple of.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Good years left in me before you retire.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, so I still reckon I could have played a
couple more years of football.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So why did you retire?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Because I was stubborn and didn't want to leave the Broncos.
For me, there was this loyalty attach to the Brisbane Broncos,
and I think the prestige of being known as a
one team player really, so I can rewind back to
there was a big split when I was a kid
with all my mates from school and then all the
guys that I played football with so at a club
(27:22):
level when I was a junior coming through at Brothers.
All my friends from my primary school played at Brothers.
When we got to high school, the private school kids
all played for Brothers, and then all the state school
kids where I went to Kerwin State High School, they
all played for Centrals. I told my mom I want
to go and play for Central's and moms like, no,
(27:43):
you can't. You go to stay loyal, that's your team.
You play for Brothers. So this is ingrained me. So
I didn't want to go to England when I retired
because I'd had work that was lined up for me
with Channel nine and a few different things as well,
and I thought, if I go to England for two years,
I'll be out of side, out of mind. The next
(28:03):
person retires and you know, that job that I did
have a Channel nine is gone. And the people that
retired at the same time and roughly around the same
time as Jonathan Thurston, Cameron Smith, East Layer, Cooper Kronk,
so all the media jobs would have been gone.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
It's very true.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, and I come back and then I'm working as
a bloody stop go sign guy.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
They have pretty good money, so.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's super hard having something wrapped up in your identity
for such a long period of time. And then you know,
having this internal wrestle of actually I can still play,
but they're not wanting to sign with another club because
of this bloody loyalty. I'm as loyal as a kick dog.
At the end of the day, I'll keep coming back.
It's so hilarious to say this, but you kind of
(28:50):
go off into the wilderness into the real world, and
you you have your struggle, so you pack on the weight,
you don't train as much, you probably drink too much.
You know, all these different things that you weren't allowed
to do while you're playing. True, you know you could do.
It's like, oh, it's Wednesday, I can have a beer,
and then you have two beers and then.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So like my normal Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
So bad habits start creeping in. And then when the
bad habits start creeping in, your mindset's shot. Because you
are institutionalized when it comes to being a professional sporting stuff.
You are told where to be, what to where, we
had a full time dietician. You eat these things, you know,
you go to the gym that they've done your program
(29:35):
for you. Even to the point like towards the end
of my career, we got fancy and we didn't have
to even bring our own tails to training anymore because
they had towels and they washed the towels for you.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, it was like usual to leave home all over again.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, pretty much and start again, start again. And I
think that was my biggest downfall when I retired, was
that there was a lack of routine with what I
was doing with my life, and it was just like
I want to do this, I want to do this,
I want to do this, I want to do all
the things. Yeah, you know, I want to go skiing.
When to Japan? And then the world shutdown.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
After that, Oh that was terrible time.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
It was a terrible timing.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
At home too. You can't even do the dreams.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
No, I can't even do a lot of the things. So, yeah,
there was so much that kind of coincided with end
of twenty eighteen, retire had a family holiday over in Japan,
went skiing, came back, the world shutdown. I was just
like it was probably the worst time ever to retire
in all.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Those things properly.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But again, I have to kind of lean back on
that resilient space.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And I was going to say, what did you learn
about yourself during that?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Oh I'm a suck but cow, but you need to.
I think you need times where you're suki and you
need times when sit with it, sit with the shit
you do. You have to sit with it, you have
to deal with it, and you have to try to
move on. Am I perfect? Now?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
You talk about the fact that when you leave footy
and it's not luck, I don't think. I think it's talent.
You are talented in front of a camera. And you
know you've done radio, You've done you know, TV, You've
done lots of gigs, speaking gigs.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I worked at those things too.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I know you're actually really good at it. Like, do
you realize how good you are in it? I've had
this conversation before, and I feel like I didn't sink in.
I was like, like, you sit here, and I think
you could do whatever you want in that space if
you just made it happen, like in a thing.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
There's a new show coming, yeah, Thurday Night Live. It's
called when I was playing, I was so nervous to
do radio, so I went and did it. The TV stuff,
I was so nervous to do TV stuff, so when
I did it, we used to say it to our
girls all the time when they were little. It takes
one second to be brave, and you know, yeah, I
find it really sad now for some of our current
(31:39):
NRL stars, and actually any sporting stars is from a
broadcasters point of view, the stuff that I used to
do with Channel nine was me being my genuine self
and having fun. But we squashed that Now as soon
as anyone shows any type of character or you know,
a bit of gusto about them, we squashed them straight away.
And it's so sad to see because if that happened
(32:02):
to me when I was playing, I wouldn't do any
of the I think.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Someone mentioned you with the Last of your Kind because
the stuff that you came out sometimes is on TV.
Like for some people it was what they look forward
to at the end of the game and the show,
and it brought a bit of joy to a bit
of misery. So you're right, I don't think it'd be
tolerated in that now.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I've always tried to find balance with everything that I do,
so again any of the TV stuff, any of my
speaking engagements as well, again showing up as my genuine selves,
and I try to bring little bits of you know,
you don't want to go to see someone speaking on
stage about leadership and the this is our leader does
(32:40):
this is? It's like I have fun with it.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
When I talk about leadership, I talk about the different
leaders that I've had throughout my career and what made
them the good leaders that they were. I tell football
stories when it comes to leadership talks because it's what
I can relate to. And it's also so easy to
tell those stories, isn't it. Yeah. I've come to realize
now that I have so many transferable skills that came
(33:04):
out of my rug league career that I now implemented
my life and you know, hopefully they're helping me out
and I'm still paying the bill sets Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Speaking of bravery, and I would have described you at
times as being very stoic like sort of especially going
through that period of transition for your career, instead of
everything's sort of you know, oh yeah, it's all good.
It's all good. You know, see me, everything's all right,
and then you go into something really vulnerable and you
go and you know, put a full series podcast out
and talk about actually how tough it's been, and you
(33:33):
talk about some real big topics around suicide and depression.
I mean, even the people who know you really well
were like, oh wow, where that from?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
There? It is because it was deep down? It was
obviously deep.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
So what did it mean for you to share it? Like?
What made you decide to open up about that stuff?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I was doing some therapy at the time and opening
up to my therapist and just through the conversation thought
it would be beneficial to share those things again. You
talk about how many people ask you to see me
like that intents all the time and crazy and whatever.
People ask those questions all the time. And it was
to shy Upe as one of my genuine selves and
(34:13):
tell a couple of stories. You can go and listen
to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I recommend it.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's called We Are Human And there's a poem on
them that I wrote about the Boy on the Wall
and like that was something I buried deep and again
going through a little bit of struggle. I can't even
remember exactly what age I was, but yeah, I was
going through a tough time again, lack of identity, didn't
know where I fit in, didn't know what I wanted
to do with my life. And I rode to the
(34:40):
Kelso Dam, which is not far from my house, and
towns were being pretty dry, where the damn spillway was
sat on the wall, and just kind of was contemplating
my own life and yeah, yeah, and then pretty damn
close to just leaping, jumping off and ending it there.
(35:04):
But so glad that I gave myself a chance to
see the next day, because.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, what made you get on your bike and right home.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I was more worried in my mind of what my
family would have gone through. So I'm glad that that
was the last thought that I had. Was the you know,
the literally fuck moment about you. Your family's the people
that are still here are the ones that have to
deal with your actions at the end of the day.
They're the ones that I left behind. And I didn't
(35:35):
want to put that burden on my parents, because yeah,
I didn't have the most privileged life. It was pretty
tough when Dad got out of the Air Force and
struggled to find himself after a while. Again, you know,
similar my dad. He joined the Air Force to travel
and see Australia and do some different things. And he
was in the Air Force for twenty one years and
then I think he had a couple of little odd
(35:56):
jobs there for a while. He worked at a chemist,
he worked for a furniture place where he just delivered furniture,
and then he end up starting to be a teacher.
It showed me that you can do multiple jobs in
your life. You don't have to just be put in
one basket forever. And you know, it just showed me
that you can achieve anything in your life and you
(36:17):
don't have to just be stuck in one box forever.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
When you rode back that day, though, from what I understand,
you didn't tell your parents what you were going to do, right,
so they just found out probably in the last couple
of years.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, I had. I was sweating profusely. Yeah, I was
so nervous when I had written the poem in twenty
nineteen and had done some of the work I needed
to do around it, you know, trying to fit in
knowing understand that I am loved all those different things.
And once I kind of got the poem out, I
(36:49):
knew that well, I'm going to do a podcast around this,
so I'm going to get it out there and put
it out there. I need to make sure that my
parents know before yep, I do, because I want them
to hear it from me, not from someone else, and
talk about tough conversation, but a conversation that needed to happen,
and to see how supportive mom and dad were and
(37:13):
they had no idea and I was a little angry
kid and didn't understand my hormones to the point where
Mum brought me a boxing back when I was a kid.
She would know if I had a day at school
if one of my brothers was annoying me, because I
would be out there. I'd be punching the bag as
hard as I could. But it was a conversation I
needed to have a little bit for mom and dad,
but more for myself because the burden of holding onto
(37:36):
that for so long was massive.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I think there's a theme that I look back and go,
what did Sammy need in those moments in his life?
Right like you think about it because you're a parent now,
what did you need from your parents back then? What
did you need from the coaching stuff back then? Was
it someone to be able to talk to you more
about how you're feeling?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Oh, definitely. It's not our parents at the end of
the day too, so you know, and I never placed
any blame on them for our childhood at all, because
they were just doing what they were taught, how they
learned how to parent. We can only learn from the
way that we were parented, come up with our own
styles of parenting and continue to show up.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
You're cruising high speed towards forty as she's twelve months away,
isn't it all less? So it's a milestone. I know,
as a woman who's forty two, right, a lot of
stuff changes. What are you not bothered by now that
there's a young football player you see to get worried about, like,
you know, self doubt. I think I've read a bit
about you at times where oh, yeah, you know you
had that self doubt, Like has that got better as
(38:34):
you got older or worse?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
It's different self doubt now though, Okay, you know, any
little idea I have or business opportunities or they think
you're forever doubting yourself and thinking, you know, can I
do it?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (38:49):
But that's probably something that I do need to work on.
There still is a little bit of self doubt that
creeps in, and I think it creeps in for most
people when it comes to anything, trying something new, doing
something new, it's always scary, but you know, you just
got to go back to that old one second to
be brave, and you just got to leap and have
a kraken. The thing that I worry and I'm concerned
(39:10):
about is like, I want to be around for my
kids when they have kids. So for me coming into
my forties, I need to make sure that all right,
I need to make sure I'm ticking a lot more
boxes when it comes to the health side of things.
I need to make sure that I see a doctor
regularly and make sure that I trained so hard for
(39:31):
so many years that I can easily use it as
an excuse sometimes not too yeah, right, And I heard
someone the other day talk about we would do anything
for our kids, and sometimes we say we would die
for our kids, but we need to start living for
our kids. So that's probably something that I need to
work on going forward.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
A little Bernie might have told me that you might
be dabbling. I mean, you're a big kid yourself. Let's
be honest, and it turns out you might like writing
kids books too.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yes, I do. Actually, that's got some hopefully that will
be coming out very soon. So I'm working. I'm working
very closely with the which are the former Origin Greats,
and they run a program in primary schools called the
ARTI program, which is an acronym for Achieving Results through
Indigenous Education. I would love to get these books out
(40:20):
in January to start the new school year. I've been
sitting on them for a little while and they're just
Indigenous tales that I'd heard as a kid. And the
whole idea is when I was a kid, I struggle
to read now still. I remember I had to do
something on the Footy Show once and they had the
telepropter and I couldn't read it, and I just like
(40:41):
froze on TV and being quick with it. I just
kind of knew what we were talking about and I
just spoke about it anyway without reading what was on
the thing. So, you know, probably undiagnosed dyslexia. I probably
got add as well. But I remember being a kid
in going to school and not finding or seeing any
books that I wanted to read in the library. You know,
(41:02):
a lot of the things I've spoken about today that
lack identity is like I wanted to read the dream
Time Stories, but there's no Torres Strait Dreamtime Stories or
all stories of the Torres Straits. So I've got a
story about Gary the Garfish.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Gary the garfis Garry.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Garfish and how he broke his nose. I've got a
story about the grandmother Turtle, how she was sick and
tired of swimming around the world, and she found a
sandbar and she laid down and she became an island,
and all of her kids come back and they lay
their eggs on the island now. So it's about motherhood
and keeping your family close. And then I've got another book,
which is I got to finish it, which is about
(41:38):
the Pearl chall It's about bullying at the end of
the day, so about inner beauty.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Wow, I cannot wait to see these come out. This
is great. I love it. Seemy. I hope you realize
that you're a big advocate for the indigenous space and
also for mental health. And you'll never know the answer
to this, but somewhere out there, someone's listened to something
and gone it's okay to say this because Sammy does,
and someone's gone, do you know what? I wanted to
get to know my culture more because Sammy's doing this.
(42:02):
So I hope sometimes you remember the impact you're having
on people. I think sometimes it can get lost a bit.
You don't always know it.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I do always tell people when I do a speech,
and I always introduce myself, and I always say, well,
if you don't know who I am, please don't google me.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Because.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Half of the stuff that comes up if you giggle me.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Is nonsense as I read.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
So yeah, I hope that people are getting their information
about Samada from podcasts, from seeing me on TV, from books,
all different things.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I'm going to let end with one question. Let's go
back to seventeen year old SAMMI. Yeah, you're good Moper hair.
Then I do miss your hair. If I'm honest, I'll
be the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
I'll get it fixed, little.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Flitting there in the front.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, I'll get some plugs soon.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
But so seventeen year old Sammy football is off the table.
In fact, all professional sports off the table. It's not
going to happen, right, What else would SEMy have gone
and done? If you look back now and all that
was done. What career path might I be finding you
in now?
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Well, A lot of the subjects I did at school
were the direction I was going in was a building
and construction industry. So eleven and grade twelve I did
graphic design, I did trading business mass, I did mental work,
I did woodwork. And we had a course at school
too that we did was called a building construction course
where we learn different skills when it come to building.
So I'll probably be in the building industry. I'd probably
(43:20):
own my own business. I'd be as big as hutches,
I reckon. I love a flat pack challenge.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I'm so glad you've told me that because I don't
and I need someone to do mine.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I liked the idea of sometimes not following the instructions.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Either, great, that could just go.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
It's cool. It's a puzzle and you've got to put
it together and figure out how it all fits.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
And I'll be bringing you for the next flight pack.
It's been a pleasure, Sammy. Thank you so much for
chatting today.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Thank you
Appoche Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the
CEO Series. This series we launch into the new world
of brave leadership. Happy people create happy businesses, true emotionally
intelligent leadership. I've picked up vombit once on our about
our four flight and everybody thought, well, if it's good
(00:27):
enough for him, I can do it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and
some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth
behind their brave leadership journeys. Welcome to another episode of
Brave Always the CEO series. So this is actually a
pretty special one for me today. If you're from Queensland,
or you're an ERL fan, or probably any sporting fan.
(00:48):
This man needs no introduction, but he's played more than
three hundred n Ral games, twenty nine Origin matches, thirty
two Tests for the Kangaroos. Is a delim Award winner,
two time Premiership winner and a Rugby World Cup winner.
He's Alarican of football, the guy who once had a
giant curly mop, the guy I have seen way too
many times in a budguy, smuggler, but most importantly, someone
(01:09):
I've had the privilege of being friends with nearly fourteen years.
What come, mister Sammy Thurday.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Thank you for the backhanded compliments. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I had to mention the hair because.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I do have to. I didn't win a Daly Am.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I want a Dallly m Backrower of the Year. The
Daly is well, the Dallim is the best player in
the whole league. I want a positional I.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Just wanted to correct about it. We'll just let that go.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
No, no, because I told you I wasn't going to
lie to you today on this.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
All right, all right, fair enough? Where to start, Sammy?
This was an interesting one for me because I have
known you for so long and I thought this would
be super easy.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
You know me, but you don't.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Actually, Oh rah, well, Sammy born in Sydney, moved to
Townsville when you're four years old. I didn't know all
this stuff. And that's where you grew up in North Queensland.
Growing up in Townsville. What's the best thing about Townsville?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
For me? As a kid? Growing up in Townsville was great.
I was a sporty kid and there was a lot
of different sports around. I tried my hand at everything. Again,
having a lot of brothers to kind of place with.
We had cricket bats, basketball hoops, baseball bats. My poor
mum and dad. We had all the correct equipment when
it came to playing those sports as well. So there's
(02:15):
probably some still some holes in the firebroough sheeting in
the back of the house where the cricket ball the
baseball had hit the at the wall. I probably do
need to get up there and fix that for mum
and dad.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
They still have there.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, Mum and Dad's still in the house that we
kind of grew up in. You know. When we first
moved to Townsville, we're in defense housing, so we had
some pretty cool houses. And then Dad retired from the
Air Force and brought a house out at Kelso and
they've been living in that same house ever since.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah. Right, What was the worst thing about growing home
Townsville The heat?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It was always hot up there. I think now getting
out of Townsville and seeing different places. I've got some
fantastic mates who still live in Townsville and it's a
beautiful place and I love going back there and visiting.
But I do call Brisbane home now. I've lived in
Brisbane longer than I ever did live in Townsville, but yeah,
you can kind of feel a little bit stuck there sometimes,
(03:07):
and I think, yeah, moving to Brisbane as a seventeen
year old kid, you kind of open your eyes up
to the possibilities that there's a lot more things out there.
So again, beautiful little place forever growing Townshill and it
will always have a lovely place in my heart.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Was your dream to be drafted to the Cowboys?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, essentially I played for Towns or Brothers. Towns of
Brothers literally was out the back of the grandstand of
the old stadium Dairy Farmer Stadium, Stockland Stadium one three
hundred smiles Stadium. It had a few different names, a
few different sponsors over the years. But yeah, I was
lucky enough to play a few games there as a
young kid, Curtain Raisers to a couple of the Cowboys
(03:47):
games and would have loved to have been picked up
by the Cowboys, but it just didn't work out that
way and insane that too. Moving to Brisbane gave me
the chance opportunity to grow up and change and probably
needed to get off the teat a little bit.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I mean, you're a strong lad. Was fretty like do
you get sort of forced into footy. Was it a
footy family, Like, did you just have to play footy
or was that your thing? No, you've done something else.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It wasn't my thing.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Actually wasn't your thing.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
From the age of six to the age of twelve,
we participated in the little athletics. Our club was called
the Appeross Pandas Mum and dad volunteered and worked pretty hard.
I think mum was a treasurer at one point there.
But yeah, our small little club ran out of money
and it ceased to exist. So I've probably still got
some junior records at yeah, yeah, sixty meter hurdles still
(04:32):
shot put. Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
As a long term friend of yours, imagining you leaping
over a hurdles not an image really strongly.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I used to love actually, I used to love hurdles
when I was a kid. Really yeah. Yeah, that's a
strange sport. It is a strange sport. But yeah, I
wanted to go the Olympics when I was a kid.
That was my dream and goal. If it wasn't for
Upper ross Pandas shutting down, I wouldn't never played rugby league.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So well, speaking of like a big part of growing
up your mum and dad. So your dad is obviously
toy straight Aunger and your mum if I read coruickly
and I've met your lovely mum and dad. Mum's from
a farm girl from mister Australia.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Farm girl from Western Australi.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, I mean both very like your dad is, like
I would say, from what I've made of him, like
just the sweetest man. Like I feel like a lot
of your temperament must come from him. What did you
learn from mom? Because mom's a strong woman.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
My mum taught us how to fight, and she taught
us how to kick a footy. So again, farm girl
from Western Australia, so she grew up in shearing sheds. Yeah,
she knew how to fight with the best of them.
She always said, ye, let them have three punches first
and then you lay them out after that. Yeah, she's
a wild one, but at the end of the day,
she is the softest human being ever. She's all front.
(05:36):
But my grandfather, Arthur, he pretty much worked on the
farm till the day he passed away. He had four
daughters to help him out on the farm. I think
Mum's reasoning why she joined the air Force was because
she didn't want to live that farm life anymore, so
she kind of joined the air Force and that's where
she met dad. Dad wanted to travel and get out
(05:57):
of the Torres Strait and moved down. I think they
were based out at Wagga Wagga there for a little
while and that's where they met. Yeah, right, her dad
was doing a four hundred meters running around the track
with his shirt off and beautiful chocolate man.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
He is a beautiful chocolate man, speaking of wench like. Obviously,
Mum and Dad have very different cultural backgrounds. Yeah, so
did sort of coming from that mixed race family growing
up in Townswold. Was that a big deal and no
big deal at all?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Probably see an understanding a lot more now as a
an adult, But we were kids. We kind of just
went about it. But I could still remember Mum getting
a perm once because she just wanted to have curly
hair like us kids.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Are you serious?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
But again, you know, this is early nineties. There is
a few more kind of mixed race families in Townsville
than certain other places. But you know, still Mum would
get people looking at her and see, I just thought
it was the best thing ever. Because I kind of
lived the best of both worlds, and my dad with
a rich cultural heritage from the Torres Strait, and then
(06:55):
my mum, you know, she was a staunch farmer from
Western Australia, and I didn't see a lot of it,
but I'm sure there was probably some stairs and stuff
that both mum and dad would have had to have
copped in the chin and just went about their ways.
I'm un sure if anything was ever said to them
about being a mixed race couple, but there's always going
to be people out there that are going to cast
their judgment on people.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Did you ever wonder like where did you identify culturally? Like?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Oh, that was probably my biggest struggle ever was I
was too black to be white and I was too
white to be black sometimes, So you know, that was
a little bit of a struggle that I went through,
especially through my teens, and not knowing where you belong,
not knowing where you fit in. And I think that's
probably why I leaned so much into my sport. And
I going only speak personally for myself. I didn't encounter
(07:40):
any racism when it come to sport at all. I
was disabled to go out there and enjoy all the
sports that I loved. There was no judgment passed on
me at all. So you know, when racism creeps into sport,
I think it's absolutely terrible because it's always been such
a great equalizer for everyone where we've given everyone the
chance and the opportunity to show their ability and I
(08:02):
think if their ability is great and they're chosen sport,
what they should be praised for it. So I didn't
experience any myself, but.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, good, I agree sport is the great equalizer. So
you're seventeen years old when you get drafted to the Broncos,
I have to ask this, how does it work? Do
you a phone call or does like someone drive your
house and like there's balloons, like what happens.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
It's a bit of a weird process. So there was
a few different recruiters that came up to towns and
literally sat in our house and had a cup of
tea with Mum and dad and a few different conversations.
But I think when the Broncos came calling, it was
a perfect fit. And again the ability to stay in Queensland.
So growing up in a big family environment where four brothers,
he had friends and family uncles and Arnie's that would
(08:43):
just pop in and come over for dinner and a
cup of tea and come and stay a couple of
nights and whatever. I grew up in a really really
big family environment, so I didn't want to move to
Sydney or move down to Melbourne. They were just going
to be too far and then you know, cost to
travel and all those types of things. So when the
Broncos came calling, I was super pumped to get the
(09:03):
opportunity to play for them, and I actually signed my
Broncos contract in the car park of the old Dairy
Farmer Stadium, which was a big Yeah, it kind of
a big fe to the Cowboys at that point in time,
but they had no space for me up there. I
just knew that the opportunity to go to Brisbane and
(09:24):
play with some of the players that were already on
the roster was probably why I end up having the
career that I have, you know, and being coached by
Wayne Bennett, having the mentors at the time he was
a coach at the time, having mentors, you know, my
first year at the club, Andrew g was still there,
he still had Gordon Tallis was still around and then
you had Gordon the Raging Ball, Yeah, Shane Webke, Petrosisiva
(09:51):
and these guys were Queensland Australia players at that point
in time. So I think, yeah, in hindsight, the move
was essential for my career and if I didn't do it,
I probably wouldn't have had the career I had. But
looking it was a pretty cool moment that the team
that didn't want me, I'm signing a contract in the
car park of their stadium. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
But so you're still seventeen though, right, Like, how much
pressure did you film that moment? You're going to have
to move away from where you lived. There's a lot
of pressure in young people that coming through at that age.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah. Well I wasn't on that. I didn't have the
biggest contract in the world. On my first side. There
was a few like NRL bonuses in there if I
had made the NL team and played in a game,
but they were probably a lot higher than my contract
was in all honesty. So I think I got like
medical and then I had to apply for some living
(10:42):
away from home allowance and also some rental assistance. But
I think my first contract was like five thousand dollars
plus those things, and then if I played in an
NL game was like a five thousand dollars bonus. I
knew that I was coming down to play in the colts,
so they're under nineteens competition and my goal in that
(11:04):
first year was just to play a bit of reserve
grade footy if I could. So we played for the
tom of Clydes Dales at that point in time, that
was our feeder team in the NRAL, and I just
wanted to hopefully get a few games playing for them,
and it all kind of happened pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
My dead because four years later you wants win a premiership.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I debut was my first year at the club, which
was kind of funny because my first two months of training,
so I came down first to November, were just just
before I literally finished high school, graduated, went to our
graduation and then the next week I'm in Brisbane training
And in my first year I debuted for the Broncos.
(11:43):
I was eighteen in one month. Once I had a taste,
I was hooked, and it's funny the goals always changed
and you always move in the posts, and you know,
my goal was just to have a solid season in
the colts. In two thousand and three and play a
few games with Queensland Cup if I could, and I
that tick that, and then I ended up debuling for
(12:03):
the Broncos. I was like going to after So next
year I played one game. Next year I want to
play five games. Okay, the following year, I want to
be more consistent, play more games, maybe even get a
few starting positions. So forever, just reassessing goals, figuring out
what they are and trying to achieve them and push hard.
And yeah, very very early in my career, two thousand
(12:25):
and six we won a premiership. I was twenty one,
and yeah, it was probably the best year of my
rugular league career. They booed for Queensland that year. I
had my twenty first birthday in Origin camp, which was
a lot of fun. Yeah, and then we won the
premiership and then off the back of the team's success
side then get the opportunity to play for Australia at
(12:46):
the end of the year. I think it was a
Try Nations series with New Zealand and England. I think
I played twenty minutes for Australia in the game that
I dibuoed, and and that was enough. I'd kind of
I'd done everything in one year, which is pretty crazy
and pretty hectic. So and at such a young age
as well.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Such a young age, I mean, what was it about
the Broncos in the two thousand and six the year
and the premiership? What were they doing?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Like?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Is there something that a team does that you sort
of go That was the difference between why we won
that year and while we did in another years.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I look at the team now and I call it
our lasagna team because we had layers to it. When
you put a lasagna together and if it all matches, it's.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Just thinking about lasagna now.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah. See, that's why I brought it up, because I
know how much.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
You love food. Yeah, thanks, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, every little bit of a lasagna had to come
together for us to win that game. So we had
layers and depth within our team. So we had our
senior players and in your Darren Lockears and Shane Webke,
Petro Simin receiver, Brad Thorne, and then you know the
next kind of guys underneath them. You had Corey Parker,
you had Dane carl or Brent Tate, guys that had
(13:53):
kind of been there and done some stuff. In the
inner already, Justin Hodges as well, and then you had
the next kind of younger guys that were coming through
trying to have a crack. And it was myself, David Staggs, Daris,
you had Carmichael Hunt. We had such a well balanced yeah, yeah,
and you know, we had the experience of our older guys.
We had some guys that had been around and had
(14:14):
a taste of representative football as well, those middle chunks
of guys and then the bottom guys that the youth.
You know, myself, Carmichael, David Staggs, Darius Board. Where were
all these young kids bright eyed? I think it was
that was Darius's first year in the NL. We played
every game from Round one all the way to the
Grand Final, and you think you're going to be there
(14:35):
every year once you're a young kid, because we still
had majority of our squad around for a little while
after that. That was well, that was Shane Weep his last
game for the Broncos ever, and what a way to
send out a legend. But you know, I just thought
it was going to be easy and we're just going
to get to the Grand Final every year, and it
just kind of doesn't happen that way.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
No, what does happen when you lose games? Like I'm
always fascinated what was happening in the locker room? Like
is it a bit ted lasso like, you know, is
it positive thinking, lift you up, you're all doing well boys,
or is it sort of frustration and anger? Like what
does it way towards? Or is it just depend on
the coach?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Well, everyone has their own different emotions, you know, from
a coach's point of view, like sometimes less is more.
I think Wayne Bennett talks about, you know, you've probably
only got two really good sprays every year and that's it.
So you know, where you come in, you absolutely rip
them a new one. I can still remember a moment
in time where Wayne Bennett came in. We were all
(15:28):
sitting in our little semicircle shape. His chair was right
in the middle. He sat down on it, and then
he looked at everyone. He stood up, and he walked out.
Didn't say a thing. We kind of knew at that
point in time.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, that's a silence, Yeah, like the naughty kid.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, but no, different people process it differently. Yeah, so
some guys in the locker rooms want to talk about
everything that happened in the game and really break it
down then and there when it's fresh in their mind.
Other guys want to get away and just kind of,
you know, we'll reassess on Monday type of thing. So, yeah,
(16:03):
different players is it differently, and you've got to kind
of know and understand which players are going to want
to have a talk to you about it, which players
are going to want to just brush it off. And
there are certain players that can kind of it's just
the game.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So the v of Brave is vulnerability. And I think
actually you've been incredibly vulnerable publicly, especially in the last
few years, about a number of things that we'll talk
about it later, but I want to talk about a
difficult moment your footy career. So obviously you were put
into captain c and then I think it was for
two seasons. Was its roughly? Yeah, like a rough a
year and a half, and then obviously you step down.
(16:39):
I'm assuming that was probably one of your more vulnerable
moments or overwhelming moments. Can you talk me through that
a bit.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, I had to take over the captaincy after Darren Lockyer. Yeah,
and I joke about it now, Jesus, I must have
been a good captain because they needed two to replace me,
so Corey Parker and Justin Hodges were my replacements after
that point in time. But I really struggled being the
captain of the team because I was unsure on what
type of leader I wanted to be within the team.
(17:06):
Without realizing I already was a leader and that's why
I was chosen to be captain. And in hindsight, it's
easy to look back and go, you're an idiot, but
you know, I tried to be every type of leader.
I tried to be the guy that was inspirational on
the field. I tried to be the guy that spoke
up at all the meetings. I tried to be the
guy that checked in on everyone. And then there were
(17:26):
times when I would walk around the chains rooms for
a game and I would have a conversation with sixteen
players about what their job was and if they were
ready to go, and without having the same conversation with myself.
I probably struggled a little bit too with not having
strong leaders around me as well. You know, previously, when
Darren Lockey was a captain, he had some great players
(17:47):
around him still, and there was a bit of a
change and a shift at the club with coaching staff,
and I really felt if Wayne Bennett is at the
Broncos at the time, I'm the captain. I think I
captained the team for a long period of time, but
you know, the support just wasn't there. So it was
very tough decision. This is again, that was one of
my goals to captain the Broncos and I got to
(18:10):
achieve it, which is brilliant and I will always be
known as a Broncos captain. But I wish I really
focused on myself more than other people when it came
to my captaincy and it was tough to front the
media and stand down.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
And how did you get through that?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I disappeared for a couple of days. Yeah, Rachel and
I and the girls, we went up the Sunshine Coast
for a couple of days and just kind of laid
low and got my head around it and just needed
to do some grounding.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Did you want to be like, screw it, I'm not
playing foot anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Don't worry. I've had plenty of those moments throughout my
career where you know, the easy option is to walk away,
And again, at the age of twenty one, I had
achieved everything I wanted to anyway, you know, with the
list you mate, except for captaining the club. You know,
I had kind of ticked every box already, so I
needed some time to process it and get away, spend
(19:03):
some time with family, some close friends, and then lucky
enough to have a game the following weekend.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
The thing is is that you are a natural leader.
I mean people always think of you that way, title
or not. I just think you kind of carried on
to be a leader of the Broncos leader.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So yeah, did.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It really matter that you had the title or not?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Well, that's the hardest thing. Sometimes as soon as someone
tells you you're a leader, Yeah, it tickles your ego
a bit. Yeah, and then you think you have to
start doing things that's different. Yeah, when Dale telling you
you're a leader for the things that you already do,
and you know, I look back on that now and
now I just try to be the best version of
Sam thought I can, whether it's doing the TV stuff
(19:42):
I do, whether it's the ambassador roles and that I do,
the charity work that I do. I just tried to
be the best version of myself, and that's all I
could be. And if people see that as being a leader,
thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
In footy when you were obviously earmarked when Darren was
leaving to take over captaincy, do you get put through
some kind of training or development to become a leader?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Not necessarily, not at all, which.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I find fast Yeah. Yeah, because as a leadership coach,
I'm like, you can't just throw people into that.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, And that's why I said that support system wasn't there.
If there was a different coaching staff there at the time,
I'm sure it would have been different. There was a
few changes happening at the Broncos, from coaching staff to
all the office staff. Things were changing at the club
and it was a time of big change. I think
this might have been the first time that Wayne left
the club. Yeah, so you know, he was the inaugural coach,
(20:33):
had been there from day one, right, he'd been there
from nineteen eighty eight, and yeah, he kind of everyone
find was weird times.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Forair, weird times. I want to talk about authenticity. It
was interesting one because I know a number of sides
of you, right, yeah, well your split persnel, and it
is first knowing that people who then will know they
might know you personally, will ask about you, or they
have an idea in the head who you are and
what you're like. And I know you know this, right,
So do you believe it's easy to be yourself truly
(21:04):
yourself all the time?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I have many selves though, and I think we all.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Have many I was actually trying to contact those, right,
because sometimes they want to put you in this category
of like Sammy the comedian, you know, which unfortunately you
are quite fuck Do.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You remember that we're at that rooftop at one time
and I was up on stage speaking yes, and this
was the first time you've ever saw at work y
like work properly worked, And what did you say to me?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I was like so impressed. I was like, oh my god,
you're not You're actually I was gonna say, was you're
really good at this?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, we're all smart at work, aren't we.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's correct, we don't go there. But yeah, there's a
different side to me, you're right. So I think what
I was reflecting on was when people go is he
always like that loud, funny you know, singing clean Dion songs,
you know, his pants are always off kind of character,
I'm like, yeah, he's definitely that. And he's like, then
is he the other guy who can be butit quiet
and reflective. Yeah, he can be that too.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I think Rachel gets the same questions asked. People think
that I'm intense because they knew me from football and
the way that I played on the football field. But
that was sam At the football player. And I think
growing up with brothers is like I always back my brothers.
I've got a tattoo on my chest it says one
brother bleeds, all brothers bleeds. So when I played football,
I was, you know, in New South Wales known as
(22:18):
third man thirday. He would come into every push and shove. Yeah,
but it doesn't mean that I'm that intense. At home.
I'm a father, my husband. I've got many hats, and
I think we all have many hats. And I show
up in every situation that I'm in my genuine self
for that situation. So I have many genuine.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Selves mileon, Yeah, very genuine. I like that.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, and I think that's what we have to be.
You have to show up to every occasion being our
genuine selves selves myself.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, A good answer, actually, all right, So that's good, alright.
Twenty eighteen. The thing you've been doing your whole life
comes from end. Yeah, all right, and I was round
fit period, remember going your last game and all the
weeks and the T shirt like and there's not a
sporting person. I honestly don't believe it doesn't go through
(23:10):
a period of like, well what now or who am I?
And I can only imagine given you started so young,
that was the same journey for you. Yeah, so what
surprised you about that period? What did you think it
was going to be like? And then wanted it actually.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Turned out to I didn't know. I had no idea.
You think you're prepared, but you're not really. I start
again started playing rugby league at the age of twelve.
All my friends at school played it. I think I
made the Townsville team in my first year and we
went and played against Cans and Mackay. I think the
following year made the North Queensland team and then I
(23:45):
was like, well, actually you are right at this. You
know it was a great way to focus anger and
frustration on other people and you could do it legally
on the forefield. I think that's why my mum loved
it so much. But I was fifteen when a school
teacher at Kerwin High School recognized some of the talents
that I had as a rugby league player. His name's
George Barlett. Absolutely love him. Spoke to him on the
(24:08):
phone the other day. He's a deputy principal now at
bean Lee High School here in Queensland. But if it
wasn't for him and recognizing some of the talents I
had and pretty much giving me a kick in the ass,
reiterated to me that I was super talented at rugby
league and if I actually gave it a crack and
really trained hard and applied myself, that I could probably
(24:31):
have a professional career. And he said to me, I'll
show up every day. You show up. And he had
to show up anyway because he was a teacher. He
had the keys of the gym. But for the next
kind of two years. It's in grade eleven and grade
twelve at school. I showed up and I did the
training early in the morning, and I had another friend,
(24:51):
Bevan Cameron, who would pick me up because it was
kind of you know, Mum had a household full of
My two younger brothers were there at the time. My
two older brothers had gone but she's like, I can't
drive you into school and then come back home and
get the boys ready to dive back in again. So
had a friend picked me up, Evan Cameron. He picked
me up in him and his dad. We went to
training every morning, got ready for you know, footy, and
(25:15):
I needed a bit of a push. I needed a
bit of a kick in the ass, and George was
a guy that did that for me. It was absolutely
push in the right direction that I needed.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So it's just so much though about the impact that
a good teacher or mentor can have on a child,
right because on the other side of the spectrum.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
There's a lot of shit teachers too. Yeah, and a
few as well. I loved science and biology at school.
I loved it and like fascinated with the human body.
But I had a science teacher who was nice to me,
and I was like, oh fuck science. That I never
did it again.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You see. I had an art teacher who told me
at eleven, laughed at my artwork, which is subjective, right,
isn't it? Isn't it and said to me, you're terrible
at art. And I never got over it, and I
quit anything creative until this day. I still say like,
if pictionary comes out, everyone in my team, I'm a
terrible drawer. Yeah, and it's like such a big impact.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes, no, so true. So you got to think from
the age of fifteen, after someone you know, giving me
the confidence enough to go, actually I am talented to
the age of I can't even do the mask. But anyway,
so from the year two thousand to the year twenty
eighteen when you retired, my whole identity was attached to
(26:32):
being a rugby league player. So for eighteen years of
my life was like that's who I was, that's what
I did, and that's who I am. So I think
walking away from rugby league at that point in time
was super hard because I still you know, I probably
kicked myself in the art for this one, but I
still thought I had a couple of.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Good years left in me before you retire.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, so I still reckon I could have played a
couple more years of football.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So why did you retire?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Because I was stubborn and didn't want to leave the Broncos.
For me, there was this loyalty attach to the Brisbane Broncos,
and I think the prestige of being known as a
one team player really, so I can rewind back to
there was a big split when I was a kid
with all my mates from school and then all the
guys that I played football with so at a club
(27:22):
level when I was a junior coming through at Brothers.
All my friends from my primary school played at Brothers.
When we got to high school, the private school kids
all played for Brothers, and then all the state school
kids where I went to Kerwin State High School, they
all played for Centrals. I told my mom I want
to go and play for Central's and moms like, no,
(27:43):
you can't. You go to stay loyal, that's your team.
You play for Brothers. So this is ingrained me. So
I didn't want to go to England when I retired
because I'd had work that was lined up for me
with Channel nine and a few different things as well,
and I thought, if I go to England for two years,
I'll be out of side, out of mind. The next
(28:03):
person retires and you know, that job that I did
have a Channel nine is gone. And the people that
retired at the same time and roughly around the same
time as Jonathan Thurston, Cameron Smith, East Layer, Cooper Kronk,
so all the media jobs would have been gone.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
It's very true.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, and I come back and then I'm working as
a bloody stop go sign guy.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
They have pretty good money, so.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's super hard having something wrapped up in your identity
for such a long period of time. And then you know,
having this internal wrestle of actually I can still play,
but they're not wanting to sign with another club because
of this bloody loyalty. I'm as loyal as a kick dog.
At the end of the day, I'll keep coming back.
It's so hilarious to say this, but you kind of
(28:50):
go off into the wilderness into the real world, and
you you have your struggle, so you pack on the weight,
you don't train as much, you probably drink too much.
You know, all these different things that you weren't allowed
to do while you're playing. True, you know you could do.
It's like, oh, it's Wednesday, I can have a beer,
and then you have two beers and then.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So like my normal Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
So bad habits start creeping in. And then when the
bad habits start creeping in, your mindset's shot. Because you
are institutionalized when it comes to being a professional sporting stuff.
You are told where to be, what to where, we
had a full time dietician. You eat these things, you know,
you go to the gym that they've done your program
(29:35):
for you. Even to the point like towards the end
of my career, we got fancy and we didn't have
to even bring our own tails to training anymore because
they had towels and they washed the towels for you.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, it was like usual to leave home all over again.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, pretty much and start again, start again. And I
think that was my biggest downfall when I retired, was
that there was a lack of routine with what I
was doing with my life, and it was just like
I want to do this, I want to do this,
I want to do this, I want to do all
the things. Yeah, you know, I want to go skiing.
When to Japan? And then the world shutdown.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
After that, Oh that was terrible time.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
It was a terrible timing.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
At home too. You can't even do the dreams.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
No, I can't even do a lot of the things. So, yeah,
there was so much that kind of coincided with end
of twenty eighteen, retire had a family holiday over in Japan,
went skiing, came back, the world shutdown. I was just
like it was probably the worst time ever to retire
in all.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Those things properly.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But again, I have to kind of lean back on
that resilient space.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And I was going to say, what did you learn
about yourself during that?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Oh I'm a suck but cow, but you need to.
I think you need times where you're suki and you
need times when sit with it, sit with the shit
you do. You have to sit with it, you have
to deal with it, and you have to try to
move on. Am I perfect? Now?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
You talk about the fact that when you leave footy
and it's not luck, I don't think. I think it's talent.
You are talented in front of a camera. And you
know you've done radio, You've done you know, TV, You've
done lots of gigs, speaking gigs.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I worked at those things too.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I know you're actually really good at it. Like, do
you realize how good you are in it? I've had
this conversation before, and I feel like I didn't sink in.
I was like, like, you sit here, and I think
you could do whatever you want in that space if
you just made it happen, like in a thing.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
There's a new show coming, yeah, Thurday Night Live. It's
called when I was playing, I was so nervous to
do radio, so I went and did it. The TV stuff,
I was so nervous to do TV stuff, so when
I did it, we used to say it to our
girls all the time when they were little. It takes
one second to be brave, and you know, yeah, I
find it really sad now for some of our current
(31:39):
NRL stars, and actually any sporting stars is from a
broadcasters point of view, the stuff that I used to
do with Channel nine was me being my genuine self
and having fun. But we squashed that Now as soon
as anyone shows any type of character or you know,
a bit of gusto about them, we squashed them straight away.
And it's so sad to see because if that happened
(32:02):
to me when I was playing, I wouldn't do any
of the I think.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Someone mentioned you with the Last of your Kind because
the stuff that you came out sometimes is on TV.
Like for some people it was what they look forward
to at the end of the game and the show,
and it brought a bit of joy to a bit
of misery. So you're right, I don't think it'd be
tolerated in that now.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I've always tried to find balance with everything that I do,
so again any of the TV stuff, any of my
speaking engagements as well, again showing up as my genuine selves,
and I try to bring little bits of you know,
you don't want to go to see someone speaking on
stage about leadership and the this is our leader does
(32:40):
this is? It's like I have fun with it.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
When I talk about leadership, I talk about the different
leaders that I've had throughout my career and what made
them the good leaders that they were. I tell football
stories when it comes to leadership talks because it's what
I can relate to. And it's also so easy to
tell those stories, isn't it. Yeah. I've come to realize
now that I have so many transferable skills that came
(33:04):
out of my rug league career that I now implemented
my life and you know, hopefully they're helping me out
and I'm still paying the bill sets Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Speaking of bravery, and I would have described you at
times as being very stoic like sort of especially going
through that period of transition for your career, instead of
everything's sort of you know, oh yeah, it's all good.
It's all good. You know, see me, everything's all right,
and then you go into something really vulnerable and you
go and you know, put a full series podcast out
and talk about actually how tough it's been, and you
(33:33):
talk about some real big topics around suicide and depression.
I mean, even the people who know you really well
were like, oh wow, where that from?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
There? It is because it was deep down? It was
obviously deep.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
So what did it mean for you to share it? Like?
What made you decide to open up about that stuff?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I was doing some therapy at the time and opening
up to my therapist and just through the conversation thought
it would be beneficial to share those things again. You
talk about how many people ask you to see me
like that intents all the time and crazy and whatever.
People ask those questions all the time. And it was
to shy Upe as one of my genuine selves and
(34:13):
tell a couple of stories. You can go and listen
to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I recommend it.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It's called We Are Human And there's a poem on
them that I wrote about the Boy on the Wall
and like that was something I buried deep and again
going through a little bit of struggle. I can't even
remember exactly what age I was, but yeah, I was
going through a tough time again, lack of identity, didn't
know where I fit in, didn't know what I wanted
to do with my life. And I rode to the
(34:40):
Kelso Dam, which is not far from my house, and
towns were being pretty dry, where the damn spillway was
sat on the wall, and just kind of was contemplating
my own life and yeah, yeah, and then pretty damn
close to just leaping, jumping off and ending it there.
(35:04):
But so glad that I gave myself a chance to
see the next day, because.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, what made you get on your bike and right home.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I was more worried in my mind of what my
family would have gone through. So I'm glad that that
was the last thought that I had. Was the you know,
the literally fuck moment about you. Your family's the people
that are still here are the ones that have to
deal with your actions at the end of the day.
They're the ones that I left behind. And I didn't
(35:35):
want to put that burden on my parents, because yeah,
I didn't have the most privileged life. It was pretty
tough when Dad got out of the Air Force and
struggled to find himself after a while. Again, you know,
similar my dad. He joined the Air Force to travel
and see Australia and do some different things. And he
was in the Air Force for twenty one years and
then I think he had a couple of little odd
(35:56):
jobs there for a while. He worked at a chemist,
he worked for a furniture place where he just delivered furniture,
and then he end up starting to be a teacher.
It showed me that you can do multiple jobs in
your life. You don't have to just be put in
one basket forever. And you know, it just showed me
that you can achieve anything in your life and you
(36:17):
don't have to just be stuck in one box forever.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
When you rode back that day, though, from what I understand,
you didn't tell your parents what you were going to do, right,
so they just found out probably in the last couple
of years.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, I had. I was sweating profusely. Yeah, I was
so nervous when I had written the poem in twenty
nineteen and had done some of the work I needed
to do around it, you know, trying to fit in
knowing understand that I am loved all those different things.
And once I kind of got the poem out, I
(36:49):
knew that well, I'm going to do a podcast around this,
so I'm going to get it out there and put
it out there. I need to make sure that my
parents know before yep, I do, because I want them
to hear it from me, not from someone else, and
talk about tough conversation, but a conversation that needed to happen,
and to see how supportive mom and dad were and
(37:13):
they had no idea and I was a little angry
kid and didn't understand my hormones to the point where
Mum brought me a boxing back when I was a kid.
She would know if I had a day at school
if one of my brothers was annoying me, because I
would be out there. I'd be punching the bag as
hard as I could. But it was a conversation I
needed to have a little bit for mom and dad,
but more for myself because the burden of holding onto
(37:36):
that for so long was massive.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I think there's a theme that I look back and go,
what did Sammy need in those moments in his life?
Right like you think about it because you're a parent now,
what did you need from your parents back then? What
did you need from the coaching stuff back then? Was
it someone to be able to talk to you more
about how you're feeling?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Oh, definitely. It's not our parents at the end of
the day too, so you know, and I never placed
any blame on them for our childhood at all, because
they were just doing what they were taught, how they
learned how to parent. We can only learn from the
way that we were parented, come up with our own
styles of parenting and continue to show up.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
You're cruising high speed towards forty as she's twelve months away,
isn't it all less? So it's a milestone. I know,
as a woman who's forty two, right, a lot of
stuff changes. What are you not bothered by now that
there's a young football player you see to get worried about, like,
you know, self doubt. I think I've read a bit
about you at times where oh, yeah, you know you
had that self doubt, Like has that got better as
(38:34):
you got older or worse?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
It's different self doubt now though, Okay, you know, any
little idea I have or business opportunities or they think
you're forever doubting yourself and thinking, you know, can I
do it?
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (38:49):
But that's probably something that I do need to work on.
There still is a little bit of self doubt that
creeps in, and I think it creeps in for most
people when it comes to anything, trying something new, doing
something new, it's always scary, but you know, you just
got to go back to that old one second to
be brave, and you just got to leap and have
a kraken. The thing that I worry and I'm concerned
(39:10):
about is like, I want to be around for my
kids when they have kids. So for me coming into
my forties, I need to make sure that all right,
I need to make sure I'm ticking a lot more
boxes when it comes to the health side of things.
I need to make sure that I see a doctor
regularly and make sure that I trained so hard for
(39:31):
so many years that I can easily use it as
an excuse sometimes not too yeah, right, And I heard
someone the other day talk about we would do anything
for our kids, and sometimes we say we would die
for our kids, but we need to start living for
our kids. So that's probably something that I need to
work on going forward.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
A little Bernie might have told me that you might
be dabbling. I mean, you're a big kid yourself. Let's
be honest, and it turns out you might like writing
kids books too.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yes, I do. Actually, that's got some hopefully that will
be coming out very soon. So I'm working. I'm working
very closely with the which are the former Origin Greats,
and they run a program in primary schools called the
ARTI program, which is an acronym for Achieving Results through
Indigenous Education. I would love to get these books out
(40:20):
in January to start the new school year. I've been
sitting on them for a little while and they're just
Indigenous tales that I'd heard as a kid. And the
whole idea is when I was a kid, I struggle
to read now still. I remember I had to do
something on the Footy Show once and they had the
telepropter and I couldn't read it, and I just like
(40:41):
froze on TV and being quick with it. I just
kind of knew what we were talking about and I
just spoke about it anyway without reading what was on
the thing. So, you know, probably undiagnosed dyslexia. I probably
got add as well. But I remember being a kid
in going to school and not finding or seeing any
books that I wanted to read in the library. You know,
(41:02):
a lot of the things I've spoken about today that
lack identity is like I wanted to read the dream
Time Stories, but there's no Torres Strait Dreamtime Stories or
all stories of the Torres Straits. So I've got a
story about Gary the Garfish.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Gary the garfis Garry.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Garfish and how he broke his nose. I've got a
story about the grandmother Turtle, how she was sick and
tired of swimming around the world, and she found a
sandbar and she laid down and she became an island,
and all of her kids come back and they lay
their eggs on the island now. So it's about motherhood
and keeping your family close. And then I've got another book,
which is I got to finish it, which is about
(41:38):
the Pearl chall It's about bullying at the end of
the day, so about inner beauty.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Wow, I cannot wait to see these come out. This
is great. I love it. Seemy. I hope you realize
that you're a big advocate for the indigenous space and
also for mental health. And you'll never know the answer
to this, but somewhere out there, someone's listened to something
and gone it's okay to say this because Sammy does,
and someone's gone, do you know what? I wanted to
get to know my culture more because Sammy's doing this.
(42:02):
So I hope sometimes you remember the impact you're having
on people. I think sometimes it can get lost a bit.
You don't always know it.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I do always tell people when I do a speech,
and I always introduce myself, and I always say, well,
if you don't know who I am, please don't google me.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Because.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Half of the stuff that comes up if you giggle me.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Is nonsense as I read.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
So yeah, I hope that people are getting their information
about Samada from podcasts, from seeing me on TV, from books,
all different things.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I'm going to let end with one question. Let's go
back to seventeen year old SAMMI. Yeah, you're good Moper hair.
Then I do miss your hair. If I'm honest, I'll
be the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
I'll get it fixed, little.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Flitting there in the front.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, I'll get some plugs soon.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
But so seventeen year old Sammy football is off the table.
In fact, all professional sports off the table. It's not
going to happen, right, What else would SEMy have gone
and done? If you look back now and all that
was done. What career path might I be finding you
in now?
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Well, A lot of the subjects I did at school
were the direction I was going in was a building
and construction industry. So eleven and grade twelve I did
graphic design, I did trading business mass, I did mental work,
I did woodwork. And we had a course at school
too that we did was called a building construction course
where we learn different skills when it come to building.
So I'll probably be in the building industry. I'd probably
(43:20):
own my own business. I'd be as big as hutches,
I reckon. I love a flat pack challenge.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I'm so glad you've told me that because I don't
and I need someone to do mine.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I liked the idea of sometimes not following the instructions.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Either, great, that could just go.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
It's cool. It's a puzzle and you've got to put
it together and figure out how it all fits.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
And I'll be bringing you for the next flight pack.
It's been a pleasure, Sammy. Thank you so much for
chatting today.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Thank you
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