April 1, 2025 • 25 mins
Ever wanted to make a living as an influencer? What about podcasting, or with youtube videos? Join Canna Campbell - a financial planner for 20 years - and Fear & Greed's Michael Thompson as they look at ways to make a living online.
The information in this podcast is general in nature and does not take into account your personal circumstances, financial needs or objectives. Before acting on any information, you should consider the appropriateness of it and the relevant product having regard to your objectives, financial situation and needs. In particular, you should seek independent financial advice and read the relevant Product Disclosure Statement or other offer document prior to acquiring any financial product.
Canna Campbell is a Corporate Authorised Representative and Corporate Credit Representative of Wealthstream Financial Group Pty Ltd ABN 35 152 803 113 Australian Financial Services Licensee AFSL 412079.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to How Do They Afford That? The podcast that
peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson.
I'm an author and the co host of the podcast
Fear and Greed Business news As always, I'm with Canna Campbell,
financial planner and founder of sugar Moment TV, the financial
literacy platform on YouTube and podcast books, Instagram, threads, TikTok
all over the place, Canna, Hello, good morning. Now confession time. Yes,
(00:28):
I don't really like to leave the house. Did you
know this?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
No, never have picked out about you.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm a bit of a hermit. A lot of what
I do broadly can be done from home, writing books,
doing podcasts, all that kind of thing. And it got
me thinking just how easy is it? And easy is
probably the wrong word, but just how easy is it
to make a living online? And I'm not just talking
(00:55):
about having a job that lets you work remotely, but
say you didn't want to leave home, or you were
just kind of interested in a bit of a new
age kind of career. I'm talking about kind of hustling
in the digital age. Right, can you make a living
entirely online? It's a question for you it is also
(01:18):
the subject of today's episodes. I'm hoping you have something
to say about this topic. Shall we start with some
of the kind of the bigger, more visible kind of
things social media? And this is something that's probably quite
close to your heart because you have you've built a
business and a career, like a second career, almost out
(01:41):
of being a digital content creator.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm glad you said that, not influencer.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
No, no, no, And that is a very different kind
of thing because you are not trying to influence people's decisions,
which is what I always kind of see. That is
the role of an influencer, of an influencer, which gets
into a really dangerous kind of space. What you seem
to be more about is education and sharing information and
(02:07):
encouraging people to make their own decisions, to get advice
and to inform themselves before they go off, and you're
trying to look after people and their money. Goodness, have
you ever experienced a nicer start to this show?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
No? Happy years?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Have we been working together three oh, what was it
three years now? And recently recently this was a cause
for celebration. Wasn't it that we passed our one millionth
download of how do they afford that this was a
few weeks back now, But wow, it wasn't that nice
And we didn't even mention it at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's how humble we are and hard working, hustling and forgetful.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I think it was just the fact that we forgot
to mention it when it happened. Okay, social media, digital
content creation, just how hard is it to make a
living in that space.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Look, you could blow up and go viral and make millions,
but the reality is, for most of us it takes
years of consistency, strategy and audience building techniques and exercises
and experiments to actually build a following and actually monetize it.
And obviously you've got platforms like Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and
(03:19):
they offer monetization through you can get like a sponsored job,
you could get some ad revenue. Obviously, if you've got
your own brand, you can actually sell something. You generate
income from those sales. It's not a matter of just
posting a picture of you and your dog and waiting
for the money to roll in, even though you have
a very cute dog, I admit it, but your dog.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Would have an Instagram account it as part of my
strategy for my Instagram growth. It is largely due to Monty, but.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Look, successful digital content creators they are running a business,
you know, and they're planning content, they're analyzing trends, they're
engaging with followers, and they're also diversifying their income because
if you have a that's purely reliant on sponsorship, there
could be periods of the year where there are no
opportunities or the budgets have been significantly cut. So you've
(04:09):
really got to make sure you've got your fingers in
a few different pies. And really good content creators. I
know I've got like seven or eight different income streams,
whether it be selling something that they make, whether it
be offering online consultations, whether it be affiliate linking. So
no it looks easy people see a seven sicket in video.
I think I could do that. There is so much
work that's gone on behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It was interesting. I think one of the very first
things that you just said was about consistency, and it
is not just about kind of just posting a photo
once every couple of weeks. It is because I've talked
to you in the past and you are just making
video after video after video and creating content NonStop and
planning the publication of it, and really that is then
(04:50):
how you can connect with an audience and connect with
a community and actually make sure that you are delivering
value exactly to an audience. It is not just self
serving under content. It's actually giving somebody something in exchange
for their attention.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Making an impact, and that's I think really important and.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
At scale as well when you get to the business
side of it. You do need scale in these kinds
of things. Like someone can't just say, oh, I'm going
to make a living out of social media and they've got, say,
two hundred followers on Instagram. It's not necessarily going to, oh,
I've made it's wrong assumption.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So it's not actually, oh, that person's got two hundred
thousand followers. You know they're better at this. Obviously people
buy followers and likes, but it's actually do that, yes,
and a lot of people do just put and you
can catch them out as well. So if you see
like big wipeouts and numbers, that means Instagram come through
and clean them, clean out those bots that they've bought.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So if you see Michael Thompson, author on Instagram, suddenly
go from my two thousand followers to two hundred thousand,
I'm going to be suspicious overnight.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Look, it can happen, don't get me wrong, It can
genuinely happen. But you know, this is where micro influencers
come in. So some I know a particular girl who's
her influencer in fashion, and she said she was making
more money with a third of the following than what
she's making today because the brand liked her smaller community
because she had a deeper engagement with them than what
(06:17):
it's blown up and bigger. But she just doesn't get
the same amount of work and she doesn't have that depth.
So it's not necessarily about the size of the audience.
It's actually about the connection they have with the audience.
Are they engaging, are they clicking, are they liking? Are
they buying? So it's not as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
That's actually encouraging though, to know that if you have
quite a specific skill or a specific interest, and you
are good at kind of what you do, that you
don't necessarily need to have two hundred thousand people following
you on a social media platform in order to potentially
generate an income.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Exactly. It's the same principle. You could have a ten
million dollar share portfolio that only pays ten thousand dollars
a year in dividends, or you could have a million
dollar shareport follows you one hundred thousand dollars are your individends?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, all right? What kind of skills and assets do
you think you would need in particular, like you do
need a sense of the visual, right, I'm saying this.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Is a video content. Yeah, it helps.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I was saying this as someone who is very reluctantly.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Kind of You're very good on social media.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Oh wow, it feels like you just repaid the compliment
that I paid you at the start of the day.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I just watch now as I explode to those two
hundred thousand followers, just just off the back of that
one comment.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Now, your content very funny. Look, having a strong personal
brand obviously is important and a unique voice. If you're
just another carbon copy person that's talking about, you know,
a pair of white legged denim jeans, you're just going
to be You're going to blend in. You need to
stand out of one of a kind obviously. Then there's
the practical side, like video editing, photography, graphic design, and
(07:56):
then marketing, audience engagement knowledge, and then you've got to
have a could it was a commercial mindset, you know,
a bit of business acumen, so understanding how monetization works,
and understanding how to negotiate sponsorships and all the intricacies
of that contract because that's quite complicated, how affiliate marketing
works and all those digital products. And then you've got
(08:17):
to understand the accounting side, because you are running a business.
You know, this is not tax free money. You know,
you've got to declare that. So you've got to understand, Okay,
we'll do have to account for GST, do I have
to pay super you know, how much money do I
have to pay to the ATO? Do I launch this
monthly or quarterly? Or you know, do I need to
account and do I need a bookkeeper? So there's a
lot involved directing.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
A lot of people fall into the trap of assuming
that because they are generating this money themselves directly through
some of these platforms, that it's just like it's just
side hustle cash.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
And I think those people will get caught if it's
especially if a substantial amount. And this is where you know,
I wonder with some of those of the adult variety
websites that people are making money whether they're declaring that
and not in potentionally instantly not declaring it.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Okay, yeah, it almost requires an awareness campaign. What you're
earning on the side is actually taxable income, and you
could end up in a bit of trouble with the
ATO and.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
The A two have flagged that as being in the
past that certain industries, one of which let's call it
the adult entertainment industry was actually flagged as an era
that they were targeting.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay, YouTube right, so we've largely been talking there about
kind of Instagram and other things. YouTube is an extension
of that was.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Long typically it's longer form content.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yes, yeah, and similar kind of principle. The in terms
of it is about building that connection with an audience
and in doing so you're able to generate revenue.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yes. So with YouTube is a little different because you
get Google ad Sense, so you can get other forms
of income streams and odd revenue is on top of
sponsorships and memberships and merchandise sales. But it does like
YouTube content. And I say this because I have a
YouTube channel which I've had for almost ten years. The
cost of content is a lot more expensive, and it's
(10:06):
got to be of much higher quality, and it is
a lot more time consuming. You know. You can when
I think about how many days it takes to make
a YouTube video versus you know, a TikTok video, huge difference.
And you know, YouTube is very much like reading a book,
you know, the videos that's almost got to be chapter
by chapter, so you know, understanding seo, understanding the importance
of good thumbnail, understanding video descriptions, keywords. There's a lot
(10:30):
more skills, I would say in YouTube.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That sounds really hard. I realize it sounds like and
because there are so many, so many videos on YouTube.
Yeah that if you want to stand out, you need
to be either doing something that is different or that
is really slick, or is really connecting with an audience, or.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You get a bit lucky. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Does luck play a part in this? Definitely?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh that's not good luck. Is everything alive as well? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I know, but like that means that I kind of
have to rely on luck as my strategy for this.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
No, it's hard work and luck, you know, and being
in the right place at my time and hustling. Do
you don't remember anything I told you from a Manifesting episode.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, I do remember that, but it is I'm just
thinking about the video element of it and the fact
that you need a good thumbnail and you need to
be good at kind of editing all this, and I'm
just like, that's really my strength. Maybe there's something else.
And then he said luck as the other component, like great, fantastic,
And this is.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Why this is not for everyone. You know a lot
of YouTube accounts last six months where they realize actually
this is one way weekends back.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Okay, so not for everyone, but it's also worth a crack, right, Like,
if you feel like this is something that you have
a skill set or an air of expertise that you
think people might benefit from hearing, there's no harm in
having a go and seeing whether you're actually going to
be able to produce content regularly enough in order to
make it worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I would say, coming from experience, the biggest investment is
going to be your time.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, how long do you reckon it take for you
to make videos? And you do produce a lot of content,
particularly through Instagram is probably where you are most active
also YouTube. Obviously you've got a large, large following on there,
But how long would it take you to make a video?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So I would probably spend about three hours preparing for
the video, so doing researching the topic, looking at a script,
looking at the key points, looking at what information I need,
and then you know, you're setting up you know, lighting,
camera equipment, props. You're then recording and you don't record
in one take. It takes multiple takes. And then you
(12:36):
are uploading into various different types of software to edit it,
and that takes a lot of time. And editing is
a skill. You know, people go to university learn how
to edit, and then it is a matter of downloading,
uploading and scheduling, creating a thumbnail, doing the keywords, doing
the video description, and then you can press live. You
(12:57):
then have to promote it. So how are you going
to promote? You're going to put it on YouTube, You're
going obviously because on YouTube, are you going to put
it on cross promoted on Instagram? You're going to cross
promoted on Facebook, You're going to cross promoted it on TikTok.
So then you've got to make three or four different
pieces of individual content to help push that long form video,
and then you might have an DM as well. So
then you've got to be you know, take your ADM in.
(13:18):
For example, I have Melchip and then create the content
in that and plug it all in and do the
description and the keywords, so you know, per video you're
looking at at least two days. Wow, and look and look,
there are different types of content. If you're doing a vlog,
it's a lot easier and faster because it's raw content.
But if you're doing something, you know, people like to
(13:41):
see little bit more polished content on YouTube and on Instagram.
I think TikTok is a lot more rawn in the
moment for my particular type of content creation, that is,
and the topics I'm talking about. People want to see
something a bit more stylized when you're talking about money,
whereas other things. If I was doing a family vlog,
of course that can be raw and in the moment.
So is a lot to be considered.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Okay, there's a lot to think about.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And people look an eight minute video and think, oh,
that took eight minutes to make.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, no, no, completely wrong. This is a bit of
an eye open to this one. I'm enjoying this. We're
going to take a quick break. When we come back.
We are going to talk about a few other podcasting
for one, which is huge. Yeah, yeah, indeed, a little
bit on e commerce, yes as well. There is more
than we can possibly fit into one episode, but will
(14:30):
take a quick break and we'll get stuck into a
few other bits and pieces. Can Are we trying to
answer the age old question can you make a living online?
The social media content creator pathway feels like it is
(14:51):
a lot harder than many would think, So that's been
a bit of an eye opener. Same for YouTube, and
really with that intense focus on polished video and longer
form kind of videos, as you say, they'd take a
lot longer than you would think. Let's talk about podcasting,
shall we.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I feel like you're probably more of the expert in
this area because I'm still I feel like I'm still
very green in the podcasting world.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Podcasting is an interesting one actually because so many people
do it, but for a lot of people it is
not something that they even set out to make money
from that it is actually just intended as a hobby.
For instance, and you mentioned before about the fact that
you have a commitment once you've started to keep going, right,
(15:36):
and a lot of people once they start producing social
media content, digital content, they realize it's actually a lot
more work than they thought it was going to be,
and then they kind of say YouTube channels, they kind
of peter out after a few months. The same thing
happens with podcasts, and really the key point is about
three months where if you were doing a weekly podcast,
(15:57):
a lot of podcasts don't make a pass of it
three months mark because it is just if you want
to be able to deliver something of value to your audience,
you need to be doing it consistently, and that means
you need to be delivering that podcast every single week.
For instance, if you decide it's going to be a
weekly podcast, or say with Fear and Greed, where that
(16:19):
is a daily podcast where every single morning you will
find a new episode of that live by five am
every single day. But it means then that listeners know
that it's going to be there, and people find that
really really hard to do when they are producing it,
because it is not something that you can just do
quickly after work of an evening necessarily with any kind
(16:40):
of consistency and having the quality to a particular level.
So what you kind of see is that people do
it thinking that it's going to be that it could
just blow up overnight, and there are instances where things
do just take off. Yes, same with social media as
you are talking, but by and large, the story is
one of your audience starts at a decent size, friends
(17:03):
and family all listening, and after the first week or
two weeks, that audience drops away, and then it gets
really tough to keep on going if you're in that case,
because you're actually watching your audience shrink rather than grow,
and that's a really tough kind of thing for people
to come back from. And so podcasting as a money
making kind of venture is really it is a tough
gig because it is about trying to build that scale
(17:26):
and while you don't need to have kind of necessarily
millions of downloads, you do need to have an audience
that is actually going to be big enough to be
able to advertise. To the benefit of podcasting is that
it can be quite a niche, quite a specific audience.
And so if a particular advertiser wanted to reach an
audience that is interested in say gardening, gardening or cats
(17:50):
or something that is very very specific, and they know
that every single person that listens to that podcast loves cats,
then it's a no brainer to advertise cat food audience
kind of thing, and so there are opportunities there. But yeah,
podcasting as a money making kind of thing is a
pretty tough kind of industry to be in. And you
do see a lot of people starting hobby based podcasts,
(18:11):
and unfortunately they don't make it past that three month
mark because it is a lot of work recording, editing, polishing, publishing,
making sure that everything is good, and then as you say, promoting,
trying to get the word out.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
And a lot of this, Like you know, Sunday afternoon,
I spent three hours at my desk, you know, planning
for some content, and I wasn't even recording that content,
which is planning and Sunday afternoon on a beautiful summer's day,
and that's the reality.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, indeed. Okay, So podcasting, did I come across too
negative just then?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
No? I think it was refreshingly honest, okay. And also,
this podcasting world is huge. Is also there's an element
of oversaturation in some areas as well.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Absolutely, yeah, there are there are so many podcasts around
the world, and it feels like kind of every person
in the world started a podcast during pandemic, right, And
that's kind of where it became a really effective kind
of communication tool as well and a really good hobby
and kept people talking to each other because you could
do it all remotely and join in kind of from
wherever you were in the in the world. But really,
(19:14):
in terms of trying to use it as a way
to make money, it does kind of shrink down. Yes,
fairly substantially. Can we talk about e commerce?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Oh definitely.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
We are running out of time. So what I'm going
to suggest we actually do is, how about this another episode, Yes,
where we brainstorm probably not a million I was about
to exaggerate and say a million ideas, but let's go
for like kind of I don't know, fifteen or twenty
ideas on ways to make money online.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Okay, done, there's so many, and there's I think this
could be really inclusive. So yes, right, that's why everyone
needs to make sure they are following our show because
they look at this round two.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well done, squeezing the little plug for hitting the follow button.
It absolutely should do that. E commerce, Amazon drops hipp
There you go, a couple of keywords to get you started.
I'll take a step back over to you.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So obviously e commerce is another major online money maker,
and that can be through drop shipping, so you don't
atually physically hold the stock. You get the order, send
it to the factor of the warehouse, and then they
deliver it to the customer. There's also something called print
on demand, which is quite interesting, so companies like Printifi
and that is where you have, for example, some great
artwork or a great quote and you can get it
(20:26):
printed on white jumpers with white labeling, or mugs or belts,
all sorts of gadgets and gizmos.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Love I loved watching your brain just then age item
for something that you could print on print.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
But you'd be amazed if you jump on any of
these print on demand companies what they find you can
print on okay. So you're creating your own products. You
don't have to worry about manufacturing a hoodie. If you've
got a great design and great label, you can put
it on that and that's that is your brand. And
then of course there's handmade items that you can sell
private label products, and then there's selling through Amazon, Shopify, Etsy,
(21:04):
so there's so many different platforms you can then leverage
off to then sell things that as you're physically owning
a front store and hopefully be the creative of your
own success.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Does it take a particular type of person to do
this to make money online, because it feels to me
like you need to be you have a reasonably high
tolerance for risk, or it's the kind of thing that
you start out doing this as a bit of a
side hustle to see how it goes, and then you
can kind of make it into your main career if
(21:38):
it does take off. But you would potentially need a
bit of an appetite for just getting in having a crack,
and if it doesn't work, that's all right. At least
I gave it a go.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yes, I mean this all boils down to you. You're
not getting paid, so you've got to find that inner
self motivation to get up early in the morning and
fill orders and check your marketing campaigns and make these
products and go through all the mishaps that happened naturally
as a business is growing and evolving. So yes, you
need to have an appetite for risk. You need to
obviously have the time, you might have to have initial
(22:09):
capital to invest in getting this business up and running,
particularly if you need to help with setting up a
Shopify account. So there is a lot of work involve
it's not for the fainthearted. And you've also got to
know that you can give this business because that's what
it is, a really good opportunity. If you've only got
three months to give it a crack, I mean, is
(22:29):
it really worth it. You've got to look at this
as a two year exercise and go, Okay, I'm going
to give this all i've got for two years. After that,
I'll draw a line in the sound if it hasn't
worked out and pivot.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I really like that it makes sense. Does get in
give it a crack, but be prepared in many cases
that it's not going to necessarily show results straight away.
That you need to be willing to go for a
while and like anything, it's a lot of hard.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Work exactly and just quickly share following. Funny invented this
ice pack so Tom's of horse Visio and a lot
of horses overheat stress heat, and he invented these ice
packs of horses and ribronically made them for dogs. When
he saw just said be with his arthriders couldn't sell them.
Invested so much time and money and we literally had
(23:17):
hundreds of thousands of ice packs, like literally, we would
the house could collapse and we would die in boxes everywhere.
Now out of the blue, orders are coming over from
all over the world asking for these ice packs. Really,
and that is five years on.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
That's a really good example of backing yourself, just going
I reckon, I've got a good idea here, and he's
gone in and it's different as well because he's working
in that industry, so he has seen it firsthand and
knows that the need is there. And in that particular case,
kind of odd that it took so long for the
demand to almost realize that the product actually was there
and available.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
And it came with a lot of science behind. Tom's
a very sort of medical scientific person. You needed to
see the stats and what the evidence showed, but it
fell on a lot of deafars and it wasn't until
only recently that a couple of people saw the horses
respond and how happy they were and the fact they
weren't being thrown buckets of water. There have these ice
(24:15):
packs and in instantly watch their heart rate drop. And
then it's been hysterical to the point where I have
now got more boxes on my driveway filled with like
thousands of ice packs and they're off to Saudi Arabia.
That is awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
It was a great way to finish today's episode. We
will do a follow up. We are going to have
to do apisode to talk about it, part two, where
we come up with a whole bunch of different ideas
of ways to make money online. In the meantime, we've
talked a lot about you online. Where do people find you?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
The best place to get in contact with me efficiently
is probably on Instagram at Canna Campbell Official.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Okay, and you can hear me every day with Sean
Aylmer on Fear and Greed daily business news for people
who make their own decisions. Thank you very much for
listening to how do they afford that? Remember to hit
follow on the podcast. And the best thing you can
actually do is tell somebody else word of mouth really
really matter, send them this episode and spread the word
about how today for that. Thank you very much for
(25:09):
your company. Join us again next week.
Welcome to How Do They Afford That? The podcast that
peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson.
I'm an author and the co host of the podcast
Fear and Greed Business news As always, I'm with Canna Campbell,
financial planner and founder of sugar Moment TV, the financial
literacy platform on YouTube and podcast books, Instagram, threads, TikTok
all over the place, Canna, Hello, good morning. Now confession time. Yes,
(00:28):
I don't really like to leave the house. Did you
know this?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
No, never have picked out about you.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm a bit of a hermit. A lot of what
I do broadly can be done from home, writing books,
doing podcasts, all that kind of thing. And it got
me thinking just how easy is it? And easy is
probably the wrong word, but just how easy is it
to make a living online? And I'm not just talking
(00:55):
about having a job that lets you work remotely, but
say you didn't want to leave home, or you were
just kind of interested in a bit of a new
age kind of career. I'm talking about kind of hustling
in the digital age. Right, can you make a living
entirely online? It's a question for you it is also
(01:18):
the subject of today's episodes. I'm hoping you have something
to say about this topic. Shall we start with some
of the kind of the bigger, more visible kind of
things social media? And this is something that's probably quite
close to your heart because you have you've built a
business and a career, like a second career, almost out
(01:41):
of being a digital content creator.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I'm glad you said that, not influencer.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
No, no, no, And that is a very different kind
of thing because you are not trying to influence people's decisions,
which is what I always kind of see. That is
the role of an influencer, of an influencer, which gets
into a really dangerous kind of space. What you seem
to be more about is education and sharing information and
(02:07):
encouraging people to make their own decisions, to get advice
and to inform themselves before they go off, and you're
trying to look after people and their money. Goodness, have
you ever experienced a nicer start to this show?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
No? Happy years?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Have we been working together three oh, what was it
three years now? And recently recently this was a cause
for celebration. Wasn't it that we passed our one millionth
download of how do they afford that this was a
few weeks back now, But wow, it wasn't that nice
And we didn't even mention it at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's how humble we are and hard working, hustling and forgetful.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I think it was just the fact that we forgot
to mention it when it happened. Okay, social media, digital
content creation, just how hard is it to make a
living in that space.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Look, you could blow up and go viral and make millions,
but the reality is, for most of us it takes
years of consistency, strategy and audience building techniques and exercises
and experiments to actually build a following and actually monetize it.
And obviously you've got platforms like Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and
(03:19):
they offer monetization through you can get like a sponsored job,
you could get some ad revenue. Obviously, if you've got
your own brand, you can actually sell something. You generate
income from those sales. It's not a matter of just
posting a picture of you and your dog and waiting
for the money to roll in, even though you have
a very cute dog, I admit it, but your dog.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Would have an Instagram account it as part of my
strategy for my Instagram growth. It is largely due to Monty, but.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Look, successful digital content creators they are running a business,
you know, and they're planning content, they're analyzing trends, they're
engaging with followers, and they're also diversifying their income because
if you have a that's purely reliant on sponsorship, there
could be periods of the year where there are no
opportunities or the budgets have been significantly cut. So you've
(04:09):
really got to make sure you've got your fingers in
a few different pies. And really good content creators. I
know I've got like seven or eight different income streams,
whether it be selling something that they make, whether it
be offering online consultations, whether it be affiliate linking. So
no it looks easy people see a seven sicket in video.
I think I could do that. There is so much
work that's gone on behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It was interesting. I think one of the very first
things that you just said was about consistency, and it
is not just about kind of just posting a photo
once every couple of weeks. It is because I've talked
to you in the past and you are just making
video after video after video and creating content NonStop and
planning the publication of it, and really that is then
(04:50):
how you can connect with an audience and connect with
a community and actually make sure that you are delivering
value exactly to an audience. It is not just self
serving under content. It's actually giving somebody something in exchange
for their attention.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Making an impact, and that's I think really important and.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
At scale as well when you get to the business
side of it. You do need scale in these kinds
of things. Like someone can't just say, oh, I'm going
to make a living out of social media and they've got, say,
two hundred followers on Instagram. It's not necessarily going to, oh,
I've made it's wrong assumption.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So it's not actually, oh, that person's got two hundred
thousand followers. You know they're better at this. Obviously people
buy followers and likes, but it's actually do that, yes,
and a lot of people do just put and you
can catch them out as well. So if you see
like big wipeouts and numbers, that means Instagram come through
and clean them, clean out those bots that they've bought.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So if you see Michael Thompson, author on Instagram, suddenly
go from my two thousand followers to two hundred thousand,
I'm going to be suspicious overnight.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Look, it can happen, don't get me wrong, It can
genuinely happen. But you know, this is where micro influencers
come in. So some I know a particular girl who's
her influencer in fashion, and she said she was making
more money with a third of the following than what
she's making today because the brand liked her smaller community
because she had a deeper engagement with them than what
(06:17):
it's blown up and bigger. But she just doesn't get
the same amount of work and she doesn't have that depth.
So it's not necessarily about the size of the audience.
It's actually about the connection they have with the audience.
Are they engaging, are they clicking, are they liking? Are
they buying? So it's not as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
That's actually encouraging though, to know that if you have
quite a specific skill or a specific interest, and you
are good at kind of what you do, that you
don't necessarily need to have two hundred thousand people following
you on a social media platform in order to potentially
generate an income.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Exactly. It's the same principle. You could have a ten
million dollar share portfolio that only pays ten thousand dollars
a year in dividends, or you could have a million
dollar shareport follows you one hundred thousand dollars are your individends?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, all right? What kind of skills and assets do
you think you would need in particular, like you do
need a sense of the visual, right, I'm saying this.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Is a video content. Yeah, it helps.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I was saying this as someone who is very reluctantly.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Kind of You're very good on social media.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Oh wow, it feels like you just repaid the compliment
that I paid you at the start of the day.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I just watch now as I explode to those two
hundred thousand followers, just just off the back of that
one comment.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Now, your content very funny. Look, having a strong personal
brand obviously is important and a unique voice. If you're
just another carbon copy person that's talking about, you know,
a pair of white legged denim jeans, you're just going
to be You're going to blend in. You need to
stand out of one of a kind obviously. Then there's
the practical side, like video editing, photography, graphic design, and
(07:56):
then marketing, audience engagement knowledge, and then you've got to
have a could it was a commercial mindset, you know,
a bit of business acumen, so understanding how monetization works,
and understanding how to negotiate sponsorships and all the intricacies
of that contract because that's quite complicated, how affiliate marketing
works and all those digital products. And then you've got
(08:17):
to understand the accounting side, because you are running a business.
You know, this is not tax free money. You know,
you've got to declare that. So you've got to understand, Okay,
we'll do have to account for GST, do I have
to pay super you know, how much money do I
have to pay to the ATO? Do I launch this
monthly or quarterly? Or you know, do I need to
account and do I need a bookkeeper? So there's a
lot involved directing.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
A lot of people fall into the trap of assuming
that because they are generating this money themselves directly through
some of these platforms, that it's just like it's just
side hustle cash.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
And I think those people will get caught if it's
especially if a substantial amount. And this is where you know,
I wonder with some of those of the adult variety
websites that people are making money whether they're declaring that
and not in potentionally instantly not declaring it.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Okay, yeah, it almost requires an awareness campaign. What you're
earning on the side is actually taxable income, and you
could end up in a bit of trouble with the
ATO and.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
The A two have flagged that as being in the
past that certain industries, one of which let's call it
the adult entertainment industry was actually flagged as an era
that they were targeting.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay, YouTube right, so we've largely been talking there about
kind of Instagram and other things. YouTube is an extension
of that was.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Long typically it's longer form content.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yes, yeah, and similar kind of principle. The in terms
of it is about building that connection with an audience
and in doing so you're able to generate revenue.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yes. So with YouTube is a little different because you
get Google ad Sense, so you can get other forms
of income streams and odd revenue is on top of
sponsorships and memberships and merchandise sales. But it does like
YouTube content. And I say this because I have a
YouTube channel which I've had for almost ten years. The
cost of content is a lot more expensive, and it's
(10:06):
got to be of much higher quality, and it is
a lot more time consuming. You know. You can when
I think about how many days it takes to make
a YouTube video versus you know, a TikTok video, huge difference.
And you know, YouTube is very much like reading a book,
you know, the videos that's almost got to be chapter
by chapter, so you know, understanding seo, understanding the importance
of good thumbnail, understanding video descriptions, keywords. There's a lot
(10:30):
more skills, I would say in YouTube.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That sounds really hard. I realize it sounds like and
because there are so many, so many videos on YouTube.
Yeah that if you want to stand out, you need
to be either doing something that is different or that
is really slick, or is really connecting with an audience, or.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You get a bit lucky. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Does luck play a part in this? Definitely?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh that's not good luck. Is everything alive as well? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I know, but like that means that I kind of
have to rely on luck as my strategy for this.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
No, it's hard work and luck, you know, and being
in the right place at my time and hustling. Do
you don't remember anything I told you from a Manifesting episode.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Well, I do remember that, but it is I'm just
thinking about the video element of it and the fact
that you need a good thumbnail and you need to
be good at kind of editing all this, and I'm
just like, that's really my strength. Maybe there's something else.
And then he said luck as the other component, like great, fantastic,
And this is.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Why this is not for everyone. You know a lot
of YouTube accounts last six months where they realize actually
this is one way weekends back.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Okay, so not for everyone, but it's also worth a crack, right, Like,
if you feel like this is something that you have
a skill set or an air of expertise that you
think people might benefit from hearing, there's no harm in
having a go and seeing whether you're actually going to
be able to produce content regularly enough in order to
make it worthwhile.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I would say, coming from experience, the biggest investment is
going to be your time.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, how long do you reckon it take for you
to make videos? And you do produce a lot of content,
particularly through Instagram is probably where you are most active
also YouTube. Obviously you've got a large, large following on there,
But how long would it take you to make a video?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So I would probably spend about three hours preparing for
the video, so doing researching the topic, looking at a script,
looking at the key points, looking at what information I need,
and then you know, you're setting up you know, lighting,
camera equipment, props. You're then recording and you don't record
in one take. It takes multiple takes. And then you
(12:36):
are uploading into various different types of software to edit it,
and that takes a lot of time. And editing is
a skill. You know, people go to university learn how
to edit, and then it is a matter of downloading,
uploading and scheduling, creating a thumbnail, doing the keywords, doing
the video description, and then you can press live. You
(12:57):
then have to promote it. So how are you going
to promote? You're going to put it on YouTube, You're
going obviously because on YouTube, are you going to put
it on cross promoted on Instagram? You're going to cross
promoted on Facebook, You're going to cross promoted it on TikTok.
So then you've got to make three or four different
pieces of individual content to help push that long form video,
and then you might have an DM as well. So
then you've got to be you know, take your ADM in.
(13:18):
For example, I have Melchip and then create the content
in that and plug it all in and do the
description and the keywords, so you know, per video you're
looking at at least two days. Wow, and look and look,
there are different types of content. If you're doing a vlog,
it's a lot easier and faster because it's raw content.
But if you're doing something, you know, people like to
(13:41):
see little bit more polished content on YouTube and on Instagram.
I think TikTok is a lot more rawn in the
moment for my particular type of content creation, that is,
and the topics I'm talking about. People want to see
something a bit more stylized when you're talking about money,
whereas other things. If I was doing a family vlog,
of course that can be raw and in the moment.
So is a lot to be considered.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Okay, there's a lot to think about.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And people look an eight minute video and think, oh,
that took eight minutes to make.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, no, no, completely wrong. This is a bit of
an eye open to this one. I'm enjoying this. We're
going to take a quick break. When we come back.
We are going to talk about a few other podcasting
for one, which is huge. Yeah, yeah, indeed, a little
bit on e commerce, yes as well. There is more
than we can possibly fit into one episode, but will
(14:30):
take a quick break and we'll get stuck into a
few other bits and pieces. Can Are we trying to
answer the age old question can you make a living online?
The social media content creator pathway feels like it is
(14:51):
a lot harder than many would think, So that's been
a bit of an eye opener. Same for YouTube, and
really with that intense focus on polished video and longer
form kind of videos, as you say, they'd take a
lot longer than you would think. Let's talk about podcasting,
shall we.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I feel like you're probably more of the expert in
this area because I'm still I feel like I'm still
very green in the podcasting world.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Podcasting is an interesting one actually because so many people
do it, but for a lot of people it is
not something that they even set out to make money
from that it is actually just intended as a hobby.
For instance, and you mentioned before about the fact that
you have a commitment once you've started to keep going, right,
(15:36):
and a lot of people once they start producing social
media content, digital content, they realize it's actually a lot
more work than they thought it was going to be,
and then they kind of say YouTube channels, they kind
of peter out after a few months. The same thing
happens with podcasts, and really the key point is about
three months where if you were doing a weekly podcast,
(15:57):
a lot of podcasts don't make a pass of it
three months mark because it is just if you want
to be able to deliver something of value to your audience,
you need to be doing it consistently, and that means
you need to be delivering that podcast every single week.
For instance, if you decide it's going to be a
weekly podcast, or say with Fear and Greed, where that
(16:19):
is a daily podcast where every single morning you will
find a new episode of that live by five am
every single day. But it means then that listeners know
that it's going to be there, and people find that
really really hard to do when they are producing it,
because it is not something that you can just do
quickly after work of an evening necessarily with any kind
(16:40):
of consistency and having the quality to a particular level.
So what you kind of see is that people do
it thinking that it's going to be that it could
just blow up overnight, and there are instances where things
do just take off. Yes, same with social media as
you are talking, but by and large, the story is
one of your audience starts at a decent size, friends
(17:03):
and family all listening, and after the first week or
two weeks, that audience drops away, and then it gets
really tough to keep on going if you're in that case,
because you're actually watching your audience shrink rather than grow,
and that's a really tough kind of thing for people
to come back from. And so podcasting as a money
making kind of venture is really it is a tough
gig because it is about trying to build that scale
(17:26):
and while you don't need to have kind of necessarily
millions of downloads, you do need to have an audience
that is actually going to be big enough to be
able to advertise. To the benefit of podcasting is that
it can be quite a niche, quite a specific audience.
And so if a particular advertiser wanted to reach an
audience that is interested in say gardening, gardening or cats
(17:50):
or something that is very very specific, and they know
that every single person that listens to that podcast loves cats,
then it's a no brainer to advertise cat food audience
kind of thing, and so there are opportunities there. But yeah,
podcasting as a money making kind of thing is a
pretty tough kind of industry to be in. And you
do see a lot of people starting hobby based podcasts,
(18:11):
and unfortunately they don't make it past that three month
mark because it is a lot of work recording, editing, polishing, publishing,
making sure that everything is good, and then as you say, promoting,
trying to get the word out.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
And a lot of this, Like you know, Sunday afternoon,
I spent three hours at my desk, you know, planning
for some content, and I wasn't even recording that content,
which is planning and Sunday afternoon on a beautiful summer's day,
and that's the reality.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, indeed. Okay, So podcasting, did I come across too
negative just then?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
No? I think it was refreshingly honest, okay. And also,
this podcasting world is huge. Is also there's an element
of oversaturation in some areas as well.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Absolutely, yeah, there are there are so many podcasts around
the world, and it feels like kind of every person
in the world started a podcast during pandemic, right, And
that's kind of where it became a really effective kind
of communication tool as well and a really good hobby
and kept people talking to each other because you could
do it all remotely and join in kind of from
wherever you were in the in the world. But really,
(19:14):
in terms of trying to use it as a way
to make money, it does kind of shrink down. Yes,
fairly substantially. Can we talk about e commerce?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Oh definitely.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
We are running out of time. So what I'm going
to suggest we actually do is, how about this another episode, Yes,
where we brainstorm probably not a million I was about
to exaggerate and say a million ideas, but let's go
for like kind of I don't know, fifteen or twenty
ideas on ways to make money online.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Okay, done, there's so many, and there's I think this
could be really inclusive. So yes, right, that's why everyone
needs to make sure they are following our show because
they look at this round two.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well done, squeezing the little plug for hitting the follow button.
It absolutely should do that. E commerce, Amazon drops hipp
There you go, a couple of keywords to get you started.
I'll take a step back over to you.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So obviously e commerce is another major online money maker,
and that can be through drop shipping, so you don't
atually physically hold the stock. You get the order, send
it to the factor of the warehouse, and then they
deliver it to the customer. There's also something called print
on demand, which is quite interesting, so companies like Printifi
and that is where you have, for example, some great
artwork or a great quote and you can get it
(20:26):
printed on white jumpers with white labeling, or mugs or belts,
all sorts of gadgets and gizmos.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Love I loved watching your brain just then age item
for something that you could print on print.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
But you'd be amazed if you jump on any of
these print on demand companies what they find you can
print on okay. So you're creating your own products. You
don't have to worry about manufacturing a hoodie. If you've
got a great design and great label, you can put
it on that and that's that is your brand. And
then of course there's handmade items that you can sell
private label products, and then there's selling through Amazon, Shopify, Etsy,
(21:04):
so there's so many different platforms you can then leverage
off to then sell things that as you're physically owning
a front store and hopefully be the creative of your
own success.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Does it take a particular type of person to do
this to make money online, because it feels to me
like you need to be you have a reasonably high
tolerance for risk, or it's the kind of thing that
you start out doing this as a bit of a
side hustle to see how it goes, and then you
can kind of make it into your main career if
(21:38):
it does take off. But you would potentially need a
bit of an appetite for just getting in having a crack,
and if it doesn't work, that's all right. At least
I gave it a go.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yes, I mean this all boils down to you. You're
not getting paid, so you've got to find that inner
self motivation to get up early in the morning and
fill orders and check your marketing campaigns and make these
products and go through all the mishaps that happened naturally
as a business is growing and evolving. So yes, you
need to have an appetite for risk. You need to
obviously have the time, you might have to have initial
(22:09):
capital to invest in getting this business up and running,
particularly if you need to help with setting up a
Shopify account. So there is a lot of work involve
it's not for the fainthearted. And you've also got to
know that you can give this business because that's what
it is, a really good opportunity. If you've only got
three months to give it a crack, I mean, is
(22:29):
it really worth it. You've got to look at this
as a two year exercise and go, Okay, I'm going
to give this all i've got for two years. After that,
I'll draw a line in the sound if it hasn't
worked out and pivot.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I really like that it makes sense. Does get in
give it a crack, but be prepared in many cases
that it's not going to necessarily show results straight away.
That you need to be willing to go for a
while and like anything, it's a lot of hard.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Work exactly and just quickly share following. Funny invented this
ice pack so Tom's of horse Visio and a lot
of horses overheat stress heat, and he invented these ice
packs of horses and ribronically made them for dogs. When
he saw just said be with his arthriders couldn't sell them.
Invested so much time and money and we literally had
(23:17):
hundreds of thousands of ice packs, like literally, we would
the house could collapse and we would die in boxes everywhere.
Now out of the blue, orders are coming over from
all over the world asking for these ice packs. Really,
and that is five years on.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
That's a really good example of backing yourself, just going
I reckon, I've got a good idea here, and he's
gone in and it's different as well because he's working
in that industry, so he has seen it firsthand and
knows that the need is there. And in that particular case,
kind of odd that it took so long for the
demand to almost realize that the product actually was there
and available.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
And it came with a lot of science behind. Tom's
a very sort of medical scientific person. You needed to
see the stats and what the evidence showed, but it
fell on a lot of deafars and it wasn't until
only recently that a couple of people saw the horses
respond and how happy they were and the fact they
weren't being thrown buckets of water. There have these ice
(24:15):
packs and in instantly watch their heart rate drop. And
then it's been hysterical to the point where I have
now got more boxes on my driveway filled with like
thousands of ice packs and they're off to Saudi Arabia.
That is awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
It was a great way to finish today's episode. We
will do a follow up. We are going to have
to do apisode to talk about it, part two, where
we come up with a whole bunch of different ideas
of ways to make money online. In the meantime, we've
talked a lot about you online. Where do people find you?
Speaker 2 (24:44):
The best place to get in contact with me efficiently
is probably on Instagram at Canna Campbell Official.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Okay, and you can hear me every day with Sean
Aylmer on Fear and Greed daily business news for people
who make their own decisions. Thank you very much for
listening to how do they afford that? Remember to hit
follow on the podcast. And the best thing you can
actually do is tell somebody else word of mouth really
really matter, send them this episode and spread the word
about how today for that. Thank you very much for
(25:09):
your company. Join us again next week.
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