August 2, 2023 • 21 mins
How much does the media influence our attitudes around complex mental health conditions? Sandy (she/her), advocate and poet, highlights negative stereotypes about schizophrenia seen in both fiction and non-fiction media. This episode also features Dr Elizabeth Paton (she/her) from Everymind around how the media can talk about mental health more responsibly.
On the Same Wavelength is a collaboration between the University of Melbourne School of Psychological Sciences, and SANE, Australia’s leading national mental health organisation for people with complex mental health needs, with the support of the Paul Ramsay Foundation. It is hosted by Elise Carrotte, and edited by Chris Hatzis.
Information and resources:
- National Stigma Report Card
- Mindframe Guidelines
- SANE’s information and resources
- SANE’s StigmaWatch program
- Melbourne School of Psychological Sciences
If this podcast has brought up any challenging feelings for you, please consider reaching out to Lifeline via 13 11 14.
This podcast was recorded on the unceded lands of the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin nation, and we wish to pay respects to elders past and present, and extend our respects to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elise Carrotte (00:05):
Hello and welcome to On the same wavelength where we
explore how we can make a better world for people
living with complex mental health issues. I'm your host, Elise,
and in this episode we're focusing on media.
Maybe you're a journalist or reporter. Or a writer or producer.
Or a person who reads the news, watches TV, catches
(00:25):
a movie or reads books. We're constantly surrounded by media.
It's pretty inescapable.
In previous episodes, I mentioned the National Stigma Report Card,
a large study of nearly 2000 Australians who have lived
experience of complex mental health issues. This study found that
three quarters of participants experienced some level of stigma or
discrimination when they engaged with mass media over the last
(00:47):
12 months. So why is stigma so common in the media?
What does this actually look like? And how can we
make things better?
In this episode, we'll be meeting Sandy, who will be
sharing her lived experience story. I also chat with Dr
Elizabeth Paton from EveryMind about how we can make media
reporting more responsible and empathetic. Just a quick note that
(01:08):
this episode touches on topics including schizophrenia and psychosis, violence
and psychiatric mistreatment. And like all our episodes, we talk
about stigma and discrimination. So please only listen today if
it feels right for you.
Sandy (01:22):
Well, my name is Sandy and I live out in
the Yarra Valley with two women, three cats, two dogs,
nine chooks, birds, wombats, kangaroos and nature.
Elise Carrotte (01:37):
Sandy is a peer ambassador at SANE. She's in her
sixties and describes her home out on four acres as
her asylum. In the true sense of the word, a
place of peace and refuge. She plays hockey as goalkeeper
and loves it. She also plays violin and viola and
loves the energy of playing to a live audience. She's
also a writer and a poet.
Sandy (01:58):
I started documenting my madness in poetry and in 1993
after 17 years of being in a complete wilderness, where
I didn't do much where I would lie in bed
all day, you know, get up late, mooch around the
house with the dog not doing much at all, really
being quite unwell and quite dysfunctional. But I started writing
(02:21):
poetry and I started documenting my madness in poetry.
Elise Carrotte (02:25):
Sandy was diagnosed with schizophrenia back in the 19 eighties.
She acknowledges that There are some controversies around the diagnosis
of schizophrenia, what it means, the symptoms and its causes.
But for her, this term fits her experiences. Like some
people in the advocacy space, she also chooses to use
words like madness to describe her experiences reclaiming terms that
(02:46):
have historically been used in a negative way to describe
people with lived experience.
Sandy (02:50):
The word 'schizophrenia' explained a lot to me, but what
I read sort of described what I was doing and
how I was feeling and how I was. It sort
of matched my behaviour and my unravelling thought pattern, so
I sort of used the word schizophrenia, which is a
medical model word. But I do use it because I
(03:13):
think it describes me and what I feel has happened
to me over these last 46 years. I can't describe
it any other way.
Elise Carrotte (03:20):
She described her experience of schizophrenia to me.
Sandy (03:24):
My schizophrenia has been about voices in my head that
nobody else can hear, visual hallucinations that I've had briefly
over the years and delusional content
are not based in reality and have no reality to them.
In the first few years I had lots of hospitalisations
to Larundel Psychiatric Hospital. I had seven admissions in between
(03:47):
1978 and 91. Over the years, I think
it's ebbed and flowed. There have been intense times where
the voices have been there 24/ 7, and it's just
been horrendous, and I've been deluded and quite out of
touch with reality. But then over the years it ebbed
and flowed, and now now I have my voices in
(04:08):
bed at night time often, but during the day they're OK.
It's really been
a battle. It's been an ongoing battle of vigilance and
care and trying to trying to stay as well as
I can, and I haven't always succeeded. My last hospitalisation
was 2009, so it's only what, 15 years ago or something,
(04:30):
but I just feel as though I'm in a better
space now.
Elise Carrotte (04:33):
I asked Sandy about how she supports her mental health
and well being these days, and she spoke about Team Sandy:
her friends, her hockey team and music groups, her animals
and her psychologist and psychiatrist.
Sandy (04:45):
All these little pillars that are part of Team Sandy
really help keep me in the world and you have
to curate your team. You can't just have a team
and leave it. It's like a garden. You've got to
curate your garden. You've got to curate your team.
So I look after my team and I make sure
that you know all the pieces are there and they're
going to stay there for as long as I can
(05:06):
have them stay there to keep me well. And I
just feel very lucky and privileged. And I celebrate my
team every day because without it I wouldn't be sitting
here doing this.
Elise Carrotte (05:22):
So here's a question. When you think of a person
with schizophrenia, what images come to mind? Is it someone
like Sandy, a poet and writer playing violin surrounded by animals?
Is this the sort of person who you see in
the media when the media talks about schizophrenia? I'm going
to guess no, probably not.
Sandy (05:40):
I mean, let's cut to the chase. It's pretty appalling.
It just frustrates me that we are endlessly demonised as
unreliable and dangerous And just you know, when I stand
before an audience, I have to say, when I say
'I have schizophrenia', I have to quickly say 'and I'm
not a monster.' Because I think people think that people
(06:02):
with schizophrenia are monsters. We're either going to morph from
Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde, or we're going to become
serial mass murderers.
Elise Carrotte (06:12):
How many times have you seen a crime drama or
a psychological thriller, or even a a movie where the
villainous character is given a diagnosis of schizophrenia, psychosis or
their actions are attributed to their mental health in some
other way?
Sandy (06:25):
Like shows like Criminal Minds on TV, NCIS, they all
have psychotic killers at some stage in their show.
It just drives me bananas because it's a really lazy
trope to use. It's lazy writing, lazy filming and lazy
storytelling to just go down the line that the person
(06:48):
who is a serial killer is psychotic. But it's just
so frustrating. But this is going back, you know, this
is Hollywood's been doing this forever, and Hollywood can't help itself.
You know it has to have something sensational to talk about. But,
you know, boring isn't boring is too hum drum for Hollywood.
Elise Carrotte (07:08):
So that's the status of fiction media. But this is
also a huge issue in news media, where violence is
often linked with mental health issues.
Sandy (07:16):
They love a headline. 'Schizophrenic murders mother.' They love that headline.
Elise Carrotte (07:21):
We see this so often in the news. Yet research
has found that more than 90% of people experiencing complex
mental health issues, including those with schizophrenia, do not commit
violent crimes (Whiting, 2020, Lancet Psychiatry). Most violence is committed by people who do
not experience mental health issues (Swanson et al., 2015, Ann. Epidemiol.) And, on average, people with
lived experience are much more likely to be survivors of violent
(07:41):
crime than they are to be perpetrators (Latalova et al. 2014, Neuropsychiatr. Dis. Treat.).
Sandy also highlighted that negative representations still happen in news media,
even when the writers have good intentions and are actually
trying to make a difference, for example, when they want
to talk about gaps in the mental health system.
Sandy (07:58):
You know what I've found lately in the most recent
incarnation of media reporting on schizophrenia is that when they
want to highlight the failings of the mental health system,
which we've just had a Royal Commission into, what they
do is they use someone with schizophrenia doing an inappropriate
public indiscretion to highlight the failings of the system. Because
(08:20):
these people aren't getting treated. And that's been the narrative
for the last couple of years, unfortunately, because we have
to highlight how bad the system is because it isn't
treating people properly.
But we mustn't use people with schizophrenia as the lightning
rod to highlight the deficiencies, and that's what they're doing.
Elise Carrotte (08:38):
So why does this keep being such a dominant story?
Sandy believes it's at least partly due to the ongoing
general stigma associated with schizophrenia.
Sandy (08:47):
We are now talking about depression and anxiety more than
we've ever talked about them before. But the trouble is,
we're not talking about schizophrenia now in any positive way.
And in fact, in the community's mind, no other mental
health conditions exist except depression and anxiety, because that's all
they hear about. And when they hear about schizophrenia, it's
only in the negative. That's frustrating.
Elise Carrotte (09:09):
I asked Sandy about how the ongoing negative media makes
her feel.
Sandy (09:14):
Angry, because I've got to keep saying I'm not a monster.
I've got to keep reassuring people. I'm not going to
be an ex murderer or murder their kids or anything.
So it's an ongoing, never ending work in progress that
you have to keep reassuring people that you're a nice
person and you're reliable and you're kind and loving, but
(09:37):
they don't seem to get it. The headline sticks in
their mind, and the sentiment sticks in their mind.
They've already, and the community already has some ambivalent attitudes
towards people with mental illness anyway. And so all it
does is just reinforce their ambivalence and then worse, create
their hatred towards us and their fear towards us. And
(09:57):
then it just generates the next headline and that generates
the next headline and what changes? Not much.
Elise Carrotte (10:09):
We know that this is a big issue and it's complicated.
I wanted to learn more about work going on to
identify and address negative media relating to people living with
complex mental health issues like schizophrenia. So I reached out
to an organisation, EveryMind, to learn more.
Elizabeth (10:24):
I'm Elizabeth Paton. I work at EveryMind which is based
here on Awabakal Country in Newcastle in New South Wales,
and I'm the Project Lead for the Mindframe program.
Elise Carrotte (10:38):
EveryMind has been around for about 30 years and is dedicated
to the prevention of mental ill health and suicide. This
includes the Mindframe programme, which is funded by the Australian
Government Department of Health.
Elizabeth (10:49):
Mindframe is a national suicide prevention and stigma reduction program,
specifically supporting safe media reporting and other types of public
communication about suicide, mental ill health and alcohol and other drugs.
Elise Carrotte (11:05):
Since then, a number of guidelines have been written to
support media professionals when it comes to writing about not
just suicide but also mental health issues, alcohol and other
drug use, and severe mental health issues in the context
of violence.
They also have guidelines for writers of fiction guidelines for
stage and screen.
Elizabeth (11:23):
We provide training and real time advice to media as well
as any other professional communicators who might be talking about
these issues about suicide, mental ill health, or alcohol and
other drugs.
So we help to make sure that the principles behind
our guidelines are also embedded in things like editorial standards
in policies and regulations as well.
Elise Carrotte (11:45):
There's a lot of information available in the guidelines. One
of the most important considerations is language use which can
contribute towards stigma, as well as convey inaccurate information for
news media. That means avoiding stigmatising language as much as
possible and being careful with how things are framed.
Elizabeth (12:03):
A lot of the everyday colloquial language that we use around mental
ill health can be stigmatising. So our language guidelines tend
to focus on those, particularly using the accurate terms instead
of the jokey version.
For example, instead of saying 'psycho' or 'schizo' using 'a
person experiencing psychosis' or 'a diagnosis of schizophrenia'. Instead of
(12:24):
'happy pills', using terms like 'antidepressants'.
It's also important not to rely on common stereotypes, for instance,
that only a particular type of person will have a
diagnosis or that there's a particular look.
So people across all genders, ages and cultures, for instance,
can experience issues with alcohol or other drugs.
Elise Carrotte (12:44):
There are a specific set of guidelines around violence and crime.
Elizabeth (12:48):
Court reporting and stories on violence and crime are legitimate
news items. But what can be an issue here is
that if we only ever see news items on specific
mental illnesses like schizophrenia or psychosis, for example, in the
context of violence and crime, then that can have an
impact on our community's attitudes towards people who live with
(13:11):
those diagnoses. So ideally, we would see more stories about
people with lived experiences of these kinds of mental illnesses
outside of this context. But where there is reporting on
violence and crime, though, we are recommending considering the full
range of factors that might have led to a violent
incident and avoid presenting mental illness as the only cause.
(13:35):
It's also important to be accurate and to rely on
authoritative sources rather than speculation. Things like speculation and assumptions
can be quite harmful.
Elise Carrotte (13:47):
Meanwhile, Mindframe's fiction guidelines are a little bit different than
those for news and information media.
Elizabeth (13:53):
Generally speaking, the Mindframe guidelines for stage and screen are
less strict, but they aim to get the writer or
producer to reflect on the purpose and the impact of
the mental illness and suicide- related content that they're creating.
So why are they including mental illness or suicide? Are
there opportunities to break down stigma or to reduce harm?
(14:16):
Does that portrayal perpetuate myths or stereotypes. So really getting
them to reflect on all of those things. Is it
just to heighten drama, or is there a deeper purpose
for including issues like mental illness?
Elise Carrotte (14:31):
If you want to check out the full guidelines, they
are publicly available on the Mindframe website. We'll put a
link in the notes. Plus, listeners can get involved in
other ways, too.
Elizabeth (14:41):
If you come across media that you believe is stigmatising
or unfair, you can reach out to the publication. If
you feel comfortable in Australia, the media generally want to
do the right thing, and journalists and media professionals that
we work with are very receptive.
If you feel like it's a serious breach of the guidelines, um,
(15:03):
you can actually report them through an agency like the
Australian Press Council, or the Australian Communications Media Authority. You
could also report it to StigmaWatch. Mind Frame has partnered
with SANE Australia to fund the StigmaWatch program, which responds
to community concerns about stigmatising or harmful content in the media.
Elise Carrotte (15:28):
Despite work going on to improve media representation, it remains
a big issue. I asked Sandy if she felt that
things had gotten better over the years.
Sandy (15:36):
Overall, no, I don't think it has.
Elise Carrotte (15:39):
While schizophrenia itself remains stigmatised, the media will reflect public
attitudes as well as reinforcing them. Sandy would like to
see more accurate representation of people living with schizophrenia, and
on occasion when the news media needs to report on
crime or violence where schizophrenia might be relevant, this can
still be done responsibly.
Sandy (16:00):
Well, to not sensationalise the person's actions for a start
and if they're going to write about them, look into
the case more closely and not use lazy journalism and
lazy tropes and lazy ideas and stereotypical ideas. To look
beyond the stereotype and maybe see, there's a real person
who they're writing about. And what they say about that
(16:24):
person has consequences, for them in terms of their treatment
and them in terms of the way that people perceive them.
So to go beyond the stereotype, look, look a bit
more deeply. And to be more empathetic and not just
rattle off a story that's sensationalist, that's going to generate
a headline that's going to sell papers.
Elise Carrotte (16:44):
She would love to see more stories with someone who's
just well living an average life.
Sandy (16:50):
So Hollywood has two things
schizophrenia and mental illness, the 'mad genius', or they demonise
us and they can't seem to get a middle ground
where they have someone who's got schizophrenia just being ordinary
and just doing ordinary things.
We don't all murder our mothers. I'm not a mother murderer! [laughs]
(17:12):
I'm sorry, I'm not a mother murderer, But you know,
there's more to the person's story than just the final action.
But also for journalists to look at other people with schizophrenia,
who don't do that, who live lives that are productive and,
you know, or even people who live a difficult life.
But you know, they're heroes
(17:34):
bed every day who have schizophrenia, get out of bed
every day, go to the shop, go to the letter
box who interact with their friends who do the best
they can to be the best person they can under
the circumstances. Look at them, look at their stories.
But you know they're the heroes because they're living authentic
lives in spite of the condition they're living with, and
(17:56):
in spite of the stings and arrows that they're saddled with,
and in spite of the difficulties that they've got to
endure and in spite of the stigma they experience every
day from the people around them.
Elise Carrotte (18:07):
It's people like Sandy who are contributing to better representation
and having a public voice, whether it's through advocacy events,
writing or speaking to the media themselves to change the narrative.
Sandy (18:18):
I reckon I started in the late 19 80s as
an advocate, telling our stories. I was among the first
wave of consumers who were out speaking about our lives publicly.
The thing that sort of took away my life and
career and everything that I might have had has actually
given me a public life, which is really ironic.
(18:39):
And books, which is again ironic. So, you know, maybe
I've turned something bad into something good.
Elise Carrotte (18:47):
And at the time of recording, Sandy has had nine
volumes of poetry published, plus a memoir and a book
about Larundel Psychiatric Hospital co -authored with Margaret Leggatt.
Sandy (18:57):
By 1993 after 17 years of, as I aid, in
a wilderness, I had enough for a collection. And so
'Poems from the Mad House', my first book, was published.
And really overnight that changed my life because I went
from 'Sandy schizophrenia' to 'Sandy poet', and that new label,
(19:19):
more positive label was transformative for me because my life
changed overnight from no hope, no purpose, no meaning to
having hope, purpose and meaning. And it was in my writing.
so that's what I do. I'm a writer, sort of
an accidental writer, but that's what I do.
Elise Carrotte (19:36):
So now you've met Sandy. At the start of the episode,
I asked you to reflect on a question.
When you think of a person with schizophrenia, what images
come to mind? Here's what Sandy would like you to
take away from her story.
Sandy (19:48):
I'm Sandy and I play music and I play sport
and I have friends and I have animals that I
that I love. And, um, I'm not a monster, but
I have schizophrenia and it's it's a tough gig.
Elise Carrotte (20:05):
The media will not change overnight, but next time you
read a headline or watch a movie which leans into
stereotypes about people living with mental health issues, maybe take
a moment to reflect on whether or not that reflects
reality or if there's more to the story. Don't be
seduced by headlines that just are lazy and sensationalist about
a person.
(20:31):
On the Same Wavelength is a collaboration between the University
of Melbourne's School of Psychological Sciences and SANE, Australia's leading
national mental health organisation for people with complex mental health needs,
with the support of the Paul Ramsey Foundation. It is
hosted by Me Elise Carrotte and edited by Chris Hatzis.
Special thanks to SANE Peer Ambassador Sandy, and Dr Elizabeth Paton
(20:53):
for their contributions to this episode. If you're interested in
learning more about the MindFrame guidelines and SANE's StigmaWatch program, I've
included links in the show notes.
This podcast was recorded on the unceded lands of the
Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung People of the Kulin nation, and we wish to pay
respects to elders past and present and extend our respects
to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners.
(21:14):
If this podcast has brought up any challenging feelings for you,
please consider reaching out to SANE's free counselling support via
1800 187 263 or Lifeline via 13 11 14.
Hello and welcome to On the same wavelength where we
explore how we can make a better world for people
living with complex mental health issues. I'm your host, Elise,
and in this episode we're focusing on media.
Maybe you're a journalist or reporter. Or a writer or producer.
Or a person who reads the news, watches TV, catches
(00:25):
a movie or reads books. We're constantly surrounded by media.
It's pretty inescapable.
In previous episodes, I mentioned the National Stigma Report Card,
a large study of nearly 2000 Australians who have lived
experience of complex mental health issues. This study found that
three quarters of participants experienced some level of stigma or
discrimination when they engaged with mass media over the last
(00:47):
12 months. So why is stigma so common in the media?
What does this actually look like? And how can we
make things better?
In this episode, we'll be meeting Sandy, who will be
sharing her lived experience story. I also chat with Dr
Elizabeth Paton from EveryMind about how we can make media
reporting more responsible and empathetic. Just a quick note that
(01:08):
this episode touches on topics including schizophrenia and psychosis, violence
and psychiatric mistreatment. And like all our episodes, we talk
about stigma and discrimination. So please only listen today if
it feels right for you.
Sandy (01:22):
Well, my name is Sandy and I live out in
the Yarra Valley with two women, three cats, two dogs,
nine chooks, birds, wombats, kangaroos and nature.
Elise Carrotte (01:37):
Sandy is a peer ambassador at SANE. She's in her
sixties and describes her home out on four acres as
her asylum. In the true sense of the word, a
place of peace and refuge. She plays hockey as goalkeeper
and loves it. She also plays violin and viola and
loves the energy of playing to a live audience. She's
also a writer and a poet.
Sandy (01:58):
I started documenting my madness in poetry and in 1993
after 17 years of being in a complete wilderness, where
I didn't do much where I would lie in bed
all day, you know, get up late, mooch around the
house with the dog not doing much at all, really
being quite unwell and quite dysfunctional. But I started writing
(02:21):
poetry and I started documenting my madness in poetry.
Elise Carrotte (02:25):
Sandy was diagnosed with schizophrenia back in the 19 eighties.
She acknowledges that There are some controversies around the diagnosis
of schizophrenia, what it means, the symptoms and its causes.
But for her, this term fits her experiences. Like some
people in the advocacy space, she also chooses to use
words like madness to describe her experiences reclaiming terms that
(02:46):
have historically been used in a negative way to describe
people with lived experience.
Sandy (02:50):
The word 'schizophrenia' explained a lot to me, but what
I read sort of described what I was doing and
how I was feeling and how I was. It sort
of matched my behaviour and my unravelling thought pattern, so
I sort of used the word schizophrenia, which is a
medical model word. But I do use it because I
(03:13):
think it describes me and what I feel has happened
to me over these last 46 years. I can't describe
it any other way.
Elise Carrotte (03:20):
She described her experience of schizophrenia to me.
Sandy (03:24):
My schizophrenia has been about voices in my head that
nobody else can hear, visual hallucinations that I've had briefly
over the years and delusional content
are not based in reality and have no reality to them.
In the first few years I had lots of hospitalisations
to Larundel Psychiatric Hospital. I had seven admissions in between
(03:47):
1978 and 91. Over the years, I think
it's ebbed and flowed. There have been intense times where
the voices have been there 24/ 7, and it's just
been horrendous, and I've been deluded and quite out of
touch with reality. But then over the years it ebbed
and flowed, and now now I have my voices in
(04:08):
bed at night time often, but during the day they're OK.
It's really been
a battle. It's been an ongoing battle of vigilance and
care and trying to trying to stay as well as
I can, and I haven't always succeeded. My last hospitalisation
was 2009, so it's only what, 15 years ago or something,
(04:30):
but I just feel as though I'm in a better
space now.
Elise Carrotte (04:33):
I asked Sandy about how she supports her mental health
and well being these days, and she spoke about Team Sandy:
her friends, her hockey team and music groups, her animals
and her psychologist and psychiatrist.
Sandy (04:45):
All these little pillars that are part of Team Sandy
really help keep me in the world and you have
to curate your team. You can't just have a team
and leave it. It's like a garden. You've got to
curate your garden. You've got to curate your team.
So I look after my team and I make sure
that you know all the pieces are there and they're
going to stay there for as long as I can
(05:06):
have them stay there to keep me well. And I
just feel very lucky and privileged. And I celebrate my
team every day because without it I wouldn't be sitting
here doing this.
Elise Carrotte (05:22):
So here's a question. When you think of a person
with schizophrenia, what images come to mind? Is it someone
like Sandy, a poet and writer playing violin surrounded by animals?
Is this the sort of person who you see in
the media when the media talks about schizophrenia? I'm going
to guess no, probably not.
Sandy (05:40):
I mean, let's cut to the chase. It's pretty appalling.
It just frustrates me that we are endlessly demonised as
unreliable and dangerous And just you know, when I stand
before an audience, I have to say, when I say
'I have schizophrenia', I have to quickly say 'and I'm
not a monster.' Because I think people think that people
(06:02):
with schizophrenia are monsters. We're either going to morph from
Dr Jekyll into Mr Hyde, or we're going to become
serial mass murderers.
Elise Carrotte (06:12):
How many times have you seen a crime drama or
a psychological thriller, or even a a movie where the
villainous character is given a diagnosis of schizophrenia, psychosis or
their actions are attributed to their mental health in some
other way?
Sandy (06:25):
Like shows like Criminal Minds on TV, NCIS, they all
have psychotic killers at some stage in their show.
It just drives me bananas because it's a really lazy
trope to use. It's lazy writing, lazy filming and lazy
storytelling to just go down the line that the person
(06:48):
who is a serial killer is psychotic. But it's just
so frustrating. But this is going back, you know, this
is Hollywood's been doing this forever, and Hollywood can't help itself.
You know it has to have something sensational to talk about. But,
you know, boring isn't boring is too hum drum for Hollywood.
Elise Carrotte (07:08):
So that's the status of fiction media. But this is
also a huge issue in news media, where violence is
often linked with mental health issues.
Sandy (07:16):
They love a headline. 'Schizophrenic murders mother.' They love that headline.
Elise Carrotte (07:21):
We see this so often in the news. Yet research
has found that more than 90% of people experiencing complex
mental health issues, including those with schizophrenia, do not commit
violent crimes (Whiting, 2020, Lancet Psychiatry). Most violence is committed by people who do
not experience mental health issues (Swanson et al., 2015, Ann. Epidemiol.) And, on average, people with
lived experience are much more likely to be survivors of violent
(07:41):
crime than they are to be perpetrators (Latalova et al. 2014, Neuropsychiatr. Dis. Treat.).
Sandy also highlighted that negative representations still happen in news media,
even when the writers have good intentions and are actually
trying to make a difference, for example, when they want
to talk about gaps in the mental health system.
Sandy (07:58):
You know what I've found lately in the most recent
incarnation of media reporting on schizophrenia is that when they
want to highlight the failings of the mental health system,
which we've just had a Royal Commission into, what they
do is they use someone with schizophrenia doing an inappropriate
public indiscretion to highlight the failings of the system. Because
(08:20):
these people aren't getting treated. And that's been the narrative
for the last couple of years, unfortunately, because we have
to highlight how bad the system is because it isn't
treating people properly.
But we mustn't use people with schizophrenia as the lightning
rod to highlight the deficiencies, and that's what they're doing.
Elise Carrotte (08:38):
So why does this keep being such a dominant story?
Sandy believes it's at least partly due to the ongoing
general stigma associated with schizophrenia.
Sandy (08:47):
We are now talking about depression and anxiety more than
we've ever talked about them before. But the trouble is,
we're not talking about schizophrenia now in any positive way.
And in fact, in the community's mind, no other mental
health conditions exist except depression and anxiety, because that's all
they hear about. And when they hear about schizophrenia, it's
only in the negative. That's frustrating.
Elise Carrotte (09:09):
I asked Sandy about how the ongoing negative media makes
her feel.
Sandy (09:14):
Angry, because I've got to keep saying I'm not a monster.
I've got to keep reassuring people. I'm not going to
be an ex murderer or murder their kids or anything.
So it's an ongoing, never ending work in progress that
you have to keep reassuring people that you're a nice
person and you're reliable and you're kind and loving, but
(09:37):
they don't seem to get it. The headline sticks in
their mind, and the sentiment sticks in their mind.
They've already, and the community already has some ambivalent attitudes
towards people with mental illness anyway. And so all it
does is just reinforce their ambivalence and then worse, create
their hatred towards us and their fear towards us. And
(09:57):
then it just generates the next headline and that generates
the next headline and what changes? Not much.
Elise Carrotte (10:09):
We know that this is a big issue and it's complicated.
I wanted to learn more about work going on to
identify and address negative media relating to people living with
complex mental health issues like schizophrenia. So I reached out
to an organisation, EveryMind, to learn more.
Elizabeth (10:24):
I'm Elizabeth Paton. I work at EveryMind which is based
here on Awabakal Country in Newcastle in New South Wales,
and I'm the Project Lead for the Mindframe program.
Elise Carrotte (10:38):
EveryMind has been around for about 30 years and is dedicated
to the prevention of mental ill health and suicide. This
includes the Mindframe programme, which is funded by the Australian
Government Department of Health.
Elizabeth (10:49):
Mindframe is a national suicide prevention and stigma reduction program,
specifically supporting safe media reporting and other types of public
communication about suicide, mental ill health and alcohol and other drugs.
Elise Carrotte (11:05):
Since then, a number of guidelines have been written to
support media professionals when it comes to writing about not
just suicide but also mental health issues, alcohol and other
drug use, and severe mental health issues in the context
of violence.
They also have guidelines for writers of fiction guidelines for
stage and screen.
Elizabeth (11:23):
We provide training and real time advice to media as well
as any other professional communicators who might be talking about
these issues about suicide, mental ill health, or alcohol and
other drugs.
So we help to make sure that the principles behind
our guidelines are also embedded in things like editorial standards
in policies and regulations as well.
Elise Carrotte (11:45):
There's a lot of information available in the guidelines. One
of the most important considerations is language use which can
contribute towards stigma, as well as convey inaccurate information for
news media. That means avoiding stigmatising language as much as
possible and being careful with how things are framed.
Elizabeth (12:03):
A lot of the everyday colloquial language that we use around mental
ill health can be stigmatising. So our language guidelines tend
to focus on those, particularly using the accurate terms instead
of the jokey version.
For example, instead of saying 'psycho' or 'schizo' using 'a
person experiencing psychosis' or 'a diagnosis of schizophrenia'. Instead of
(12:24):
'happy pills', using terms like 'antidepressants'.
It's also important not to rely on common stereotypes, for instance,
that only a particular type of person will have a
diagnosis or that there's a particular look.
So people across all genders, ages and cultures, for instance,
can experience issues with alcohol or other drugs.
Elise Carrotte (12:44):
There are a specific set of guidelines around violence and crime.
Elizabeth (12:48):
Court reporting and stories on violence and crime are legitimate
news items. But what can be an issue here is
that if we only ever see news items on specific
mental illnesses like schizophrenia or psychosis, for example, in the
context of violence and crime, then that can have an
impact on our community's attitudes towards people who live with
(13:11):
those diagnoses. So ideally, we would see more stories about
people with lived experiences of these kinds of mental illnesses
outside of this context. But where there is reporting on
violence and crime, though, we are recommending considering the full
range of factors that might have led to a violent
incident and avoid presenting mental illness as the only cause.
(13:35):
It's also important to be accurate and to rely on
authoritative sources rather than speculation. Things like speculation and assumptions
can be quite harmful.
Elise Carrotte (13:47):
Meanwhile, Mindframe's fiction guidelines are a little bit different than
those for news and information media.
Elizabeth (13:53):
Generally speaking, the Mindframe guidelines for stage and screen are
less strict, but they aim to get the writer or
producer to reflect on the purpose and the impact of
the mental illness and suicide- related content that they're creating.
So why are they including mental illness or suicide? Are
there opportunities to break down stigma or to reduce harm?
(14:16):
Does that portrayal perpetuate myths or stereotypes. So really getting
them to reflect on all of those things. Is it
just to heighten drama, or is there a deeper purpose
for including issues like mental illness?
Elise Carrotte (14:31):
If you want to check out the full guidelines, they
are publicly available on the Mindframe website. We'll put a
link in the notes. Plus, listeners can get involved in
other ways, too.
Elizabeth (14:41):
If you come across media that you believe is stigmatising
or unfair, you can reach out to the publication. If
you feel comfortable in Australia, the media generally want to
do the right thing, and journalists and media professionals that
we work with are very receptive.
If you feel like it's a serious breach of the guidelines, um,
(15:03):
you can actually report them through an agency like the
Australian Press Council, or the Australian Communications Media Authority. You
could also report it to StigmaWatch. Mind Frame has partnered
with SANE Australia to fund the StigmaWatch program, which responds
to community concerns about stigmatising or harmful content in the media.
Elise Carrotte (15:28):
Despite work going on to improve media representation, it remains
a big issue. I asked Sandy if she felt that
things had gotten better over the years.
Sandy (15:36):
Overall, no, I don't think it has.
Elise Carrotte (15:39):
While schizophrenia itself remains stigmatised, the media will reflect public
attitudes as well as reinforcing them. Sandy would like to
see more accurate representation of people living with schizophrenia, and
on occasion when the news media needs to report on
crime or violence where schizophrenia might be relevant, this can
still be done responsibly.
Sandy (16:00):
Well, to not sensationalise the person's actions for a start
and if they're going to write about them, look into
the case more closely and not use lazy journalism and
lazy tropes and lazy ideas and stereotypical ideas. To look
beyond the stereotype and maybe see, there's a real person
who they're writing about. And what they say about that
(16:24):
person has consequences, for them in terms of their treatment
and them in terms of the way that people perceive them.
So to go beyond the stereotype, look, look a bit
more deeply. And to be more empathetic and not just
rattle off a story that's sensationalist, that's going to generate
a headline that's going to sell papers.
Elise Carrotte (16:44):
She would love to see more stories with someone who's
just well living an average life.
Sandy (16:50):
So Hollywood has two things
schizophrenia and mental illness, the 'mad genius', or they demonise
us and they can't seem to get a middle ground
where they have someone who's got schizophrenia just being ordinary
and just doing ordinary things.
We don't all murder our mothers. I'm not a mother murderer! [laughs]
(17:12):
I'm sorry, I'm not a mother murderer, But you know,
there's more to the person's story than just the final action.
But also for journalists to look at other people with schizophrenia,
who don't do that, who live lives that are productive and,
you know, or even people who live a difficult life.
But you know, they're heroes
(17:34):
bed every day who have schizophrenia, get out of bed
every day, go to the shop, go to the letter
box who interact with their friends who do the best
they can to be the best person they can under
the circumstances. Look at them, look at their stories.
But you know they're the heroes because they're living authentic
lives in spite of the condition they're living with, and
(17:56):
in spite of the stings and arrows that they're saddled with,
and in spite of the difficulties that they've got to
endure and in spite of the stigma they experience every
day from the people around them.
Elise Carrotte (18:07):
It's people like Sandy who are contributing to better representation
and having a public voice, whether it's through advocacy events,
writing or speaking to the media themselves to change the narrative.
Sandy (18:18):
I reckon I started in the late 19 80s as
an advocate, telling our stories. I was among the first
wave of consumers who were out speaking about our lives publicly.
The thing that sort of took away my life and
career and everything that I might have had has actually
given me a public life, which is really ironic.
(18:39):
And books, which is again ironic. So, you know, maybe
I've turned something bad into something good.
Elise Carrotte (18:47):
And at the time of recording, Sandy has had nine
volumes of poetry published, plus a memoir and a book
about Larundel Psychiatric Hospital co -authored with Margaret Leggatt.
Sandy (18:57):
By 1993 after 17 years of, as I aid, in
a wilderness, I had enough for a collection. And so
'Poems from the Mad House', my first book, was published.
And really overnight that changed my life because I went
from 'Sandy schizophrenia' to 'Sandy poet', and that new label,
(19:19):
more positive label was transformative for me because my life
changed overnight from no hope, no purpose, no meaning to
having hope, purpose and meaning. And it was in my writing.
so that's what I do. I'm a writer, sort of
an accidental writer, but that's what I do.
Elise Carrotte (19:36):
So now you've met Sandy. At the start of the episode,
I asked you to reflect on a question.
When you think of a person with schizophrenia, what images
come to mind? Here's what Sandy would like you to
take away from her story.
Sandy (19:48):
I'm Sandy and I play music and I play sport
and I have friends and I have animals that I
that I love. And, um, I'm not a monster, but
I have schizophrenia and it's it's a tough gig.
Elise Carrotte (20:05):
The media will not change overnight, but next time you
read a headline or watch a movie which leans into
stereotypes about people living with mental health issues, maybe take
a moment to reflect on whether or not that reflects
reality or if there's more to the story. Don't be
seduced by headlines that just are lazy and sensationalist about
a person.
(20:31):
On the Same Wavelength is a collaboration between the University
of Melbourne's School of Psychological Sciences and SANE, Australia's leading
national mental health organisation for people with complex mental health needs,
with the support of the Paul Ramsey Foundation. It is
hosted by Me Elise Carrotte and edited by Chris Hatzis.
Special thanks to SANE Peer Ambassador Sandy, and Dr Elizabeth Paton
(20:53):
for their contributions to this episode. If you're interested in
learning more about the MindFrame guidelines and SANE's StigmaWatch program, I've
included links in the show notes.
This podcast was recorded on the unceded lands of the
Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung People of the Kulin nation, and we wish to pay
respects to elders past and present and extend our respects
to any Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners.
(21:14):
If this podcast has brought up any challenging feelings for you,
please consider reaching out to SANE's free counselling support via
1800 187 263 or Lifeline via 13 11 14.
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