January 3, 2025 • 28 mins
Lizzie Eastham and Sam Rickard present Studio 1 - Vision Australia Radio’s weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view.
On this week’s show
“World Braille Day”
2025 marks the 200th anniversary of Braille. To mark this occasion we talk to Kelly Phelan, business and fundraising manager for Braille House. Kelly talks about the role Braille House has, and its long history; as well as her own involvement with the VI and Blind Community.
Studio 1 welcomes any input from our listeners. If you have any experience or thoughts about issues covered in this episode or believe there is something we should be talking about.
EMAIL: studio1@visionaustralia.org or leave comment on the station’s facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/VARadioNetwork
A special thank you to Sean Oliver and Kelly Phelan.
You can find Braille House on the Web: www.braillehouse.org.au
Vision Australia gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community Broadcasting Foundation for Studio 1.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:06):
This is studio one on Vision Australia radio.
S2 (00:13):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S3 (00:14):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (00:15):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view. Here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:21):
On this week's.
S2 (00:21):
Show, it's International Braille Day and we're celebrating 200 years
of Braille.
S3 (00:27):
On this special occasion, we speak with Kelly Phelan from
Braille House about its history, her role and the initiatives
and projects planned for 2025.
S2 (00:37):
And Sean Oliver pipes in with a little bit of
his own opinions on things.
S3 (00:41):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One, or if you think there's something we should
be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (00:56):
You can email us Studio one at Vision Australia. Org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (01:02):
Org or perhaps you can drop us a note on
our Facebook at facebook.com, slash Viva Radio network.
S2 (01:09):
Well, happy braille day.
S3 (01:10):
Happy world Braille day to you, Sam. And how are
you on this rather auspicious occasion?
S2 (01:15):
Well, I'm sort of here, there and everywhere, because. Yes,
if you're listening to us on podcast, it's International Braille Day.
If you're listening to us via the radio, it's well,
it's not, it's not, but we do our best, as
it were. And of course, talking about our best. I
really don't know much about Braille because I don't not
(01:37):
really a Braille user. So what I ended up doing
was going, well, Lizzie, it's all up to you. So
what have you got for us?
S3 (01:44):
Well, did you know that Louis Braille developed the braille
system at the age of just 15 after losing his
sight in a childhood accident?
S2 (01:53):
No, I didn't, but what I did know is that
his initial system that he came up with didn't just
have dots that had dashes. For some reason, that that
is weird. I don't think I could not picture a
braille with dots and dashes.
S3 (02:06):
Well, I mean, we do have dashes and we do
have a dot, but it doesn't really look like a dot. Anyway,
Louie was inspired to create a tactile reading and writing
system for the visually impaired based on a military night
writing code called Ecriture Nocturne, originally developed for soldiers to
communicate silently in the dark.
S2 (02:28):
Well, I suspect that that has probably been used many
times also on Braille music camps, when people perhaps were
told to be quiet and all of a sudden passing
notes or something like that.
S3 (02:40):
Well, yes. I mean, I don't know how it would
have gone back in the 80s and 90s, but especially
with the advent of adaptive technology, with braille notes and things,
it was certainly a lot easier to send messages and
things like that. But over time, Louis six dot system
revolutionized accessibility for blind and low vision individuals worldwide.
S2 (03:00):
And, well, it seems to have become adapted to pretty
much every language on Earth. I mean, we actually established
that last year when we were doing our International Braille
Day special. Then that and it's continued to evolve, hasn't it?
S3 (03:15):
Exactly. Well, when I was doing my research, I found
that the Braille is not a language, but rather a
tactile reading and writing system that can represent any language.
Braille has been adapted for many languages worldwide, including get this, Chinese, Arabic,
and even music notation in Braille music. The system uses
(03:35):
unique symbols to represent pitch, rhythm, and dynamics, allowing visually
impaired musicians to read and compose music independently.
S2 (03:45):
So the other thing I of course I know about Braille,
having gone to school with several totally blind people or
people that need braille, is that the Perkins brailler has
a multiple of uses as well. It's a very good
crowd control, um, device. Is it?
S3 (04:01):
I would have never thought.
S2 (04:03):
If you swing it and it hits somebody, it stay.
Stay hurt.
S3 (04:07):
You're not wrong. And actually, it makes a very good
musical instrument. I do. I have to find it. But
there is a clip somewhere. I think it happened at
music camp, but I don't think we were the first
ones to do it. It was a Braille orchestra. So
everybody in the orchestra had a Perkins Brailler, and they
had a specific tapping or typing sound, or they had
(04:28):
to ding the carriage returns. So it was a really
unique piece of music and quite rhythmic and percussive. It
was amazing.
S2 (04:35):
And yes, it has a very specific sound as well.
So if you've got one Braille user in a school
full of non braille users, you know exactly where they're
doing their classes from.
S3 (04:45):
Not not just that, but I don't know if you've
noticed Braille takes up space. It does so much space.
Like this page of facts I've got here takes up
nearly two pages and it was like two lines of
of text on a phone. So it takes up so
much space. But like again, with the advent of technology
(05:06):
such as the braille note or other braille displays. You
don't have to worry about that because the space is infinite.
And to tell.
S2 (05:13):
Us a little bit more about that, we have some
bloke called Sean.
S3 (05:17):
Yes, Sean. He's also totally blind and relies quite heavily
on Braille. And he was on our show last year
talking about his company, SPO solutions. How do you think
Braille note taking devices have made life better for Braille users?
S4 (05:34):
I think that's a bit of a double edged sword,
because in one way they have because, you know, you
can carry the device around, you can take notes on it,
you can use it as a Braille display. You can
you can play games on it.
S2 (05:47):
That's important.
S4 (05:48):
Well, yes and no. Um. Like like any technological device,
they can also be absolutely intrusive, as long as you
understand where the need is to use them. Why? That
(06:09):
you need to use them for that particular use case.
Then I don't think there's too much of a problem
with them, to be perfectly honest. They can be quite advantageous,
especially if you want to do things quietly. I mean,
a lot of blind people I've heard say I don't
want my phone talk and I don't want to hear people,
(06:31):
and I don't want people to hear my messages out
in public. Well, use a Braille display, even if it's
a little 14 cell jobbie that you hang around your neck.
You're winning because it's quiet then.
S3 (06:42):
That's true. That's very.
S2 (06:43):
True. Oh, it's quieter than the old Perkins.
S4 (06:47):
Quiet.
S3 (06:47):
Everything's quiet in the old Perkins.
S4 (06:50):
Yes, rather.
S3 (06:52):
So there's also been a rise of accessible Braille signs
in tourist attractions. What are your thoughts on that?
S5 (07:01):
Um.
S4 (07:02):
I'm about to crack a pun here. I've not seen any.
S3 (07:05):
That's funny. Well, they've got some Mount Lofty. Um, they've got, like,
the plaques that describe the plants and stuff. They've got
them in Braille as well.
S4 (07:13):
Oh, well, that's a win.
S2 (07:15):
What do you think of the, say, um, Braille on
the outside of doors and on lifts and buttons and
stuff like that?
S4 (07:22):
Very handy. Very handy. Although I was, um, I was
up at, uh. Oh. What's that? What's that? Like where?
Beyond blindness used to do the walking. Oakton. Oakton. Uh,
the accessible toilets there. There is a whole blurb in
Braille as to how the thing works and all of
that sort of thing. I stood there and read it
(07:43):
one day.
S3 (07:45):
Yeah, I did too. I love that. It's always amusing
to me when someone goes, oh, look, there's Braille and
I have to sit there and read it.
S4 (07:52):
And yeah, you got to read it.
S3 (07:53):
I haven't actually read Braille, um, consistently for years now.
I'm a very slow reader, but then you watch somebody
else read it, and they're so fast.
S4 (08:03):
Yes. I have a friend of mine in the States
and you hear her fingers fly over the cells. It's like,
how are you doing that?
S2 (08:14):
So to you, what does Braille actually mean? I mean,
what's it's sort of deeper meaning to you.
S3 (08:20):
Why do you have to ask me such difficult questions? Well,
I suppose it allows me to read things and interpret
them the way that I want to interpret them. So
I remember we had this discussion last year on the subject,
but when you're reading an audio book, you are essentially
listening to the reader's interpretation of the work, and you
(08:45):
can't really interpret it any other way because it's words
that you're hearing. Whereas when you're reading text by Braille,
you can interpret it whichever way you want. You can
sound the words any way in your head. You can
decide how the pitch changes and therefore how the text changes.
So to me, Braille gives me the independence to interpret
(09:07):
works of fiction or non-fiction even.
S2 (09:10):
But surely you can do that also with a screen reader?
S3 (09:14):
Well, no. Not really. I mean, you can't interpret what
you see on the screen reader either, because again, it's
just words that you're hearing. And generally screen readers have
very monotone pitches, so there's no interpretation. It's like when
you interpret a text message that someone sent to you,
you then have the the independent thinking skills to be
(09:35):
able to interpret that text the way that you want to.
And that's the ability that Braille gives me. Not only that,
but as a musician, it does allow me to compose
my own music, which I do quite a lot.
S2 (09:46):
Well, I think we've learned that Braille means a lot
to this totally blind person, but, well, we are moving on.
We don't just want to listen to us, tell us
about the lady we are going to hear from now.
S3 (10:00):
So Kelly Phelan, who we're speaking to on today's show,
has been working for Braille House for a couple of months,
and I believe she does a lot with marketing and
fundraising and business development, as that was sort of the
role that she was doing prior to. But she lets
us know the history of Braille House and her role there,
and she tells us about some of the fundraising activities
(10:20):
and the initiatives and projects planned for 2025. Kelly, welcome
to Studio One. It's great to have you.
S6 (10:29):
Thank you. It's great to be here. To start, can
you tell us what Braille House is and the role
that it plays in the blind and low vision community? Absolutely.
S7 (10:38):
So Braille House is 127 years old. We started as
a lending library, and essentially seven ladies here in Queensland
decided that they wanted to ensure that those individuals who
are blind or low vision are able to read. So
they started by hand, going ahead and transcribing books into Braille.
(10:58):
So it was a very small operation initially, and it
has since grown. And we send books all over Australia
by post. We have a library of about 8000 volumes,
and one of the things that sort of sets us
apart in terms of what we're able to provide to
our library borrowers, is that we also do magazines, which
are very popular. In addition to the library itself. We
(11:18):
also do barrel production, and then we also do a
number of events for the community. So one of our
big events that we do each year is the Brown
Literacy Challenge. So school students who are blind and low
vision and learning Braille can come to Braille, house and
participate in real time. Or they can also log in
over zoom or teams and participate in both reading Braille
(11:39):
and then also writing. So typing Braille essentially on a Perkins.
And then they give out medals and awards for the competition.
So it's actually quite fun because a lot of times
the students are isolated in their schools. So they get
to come and they get to meet students from various
different schools, and they end up making friends. It's a
great social opportunity for them. So it's a lot of
(12:00):
fun for them and for those of us who who
work there as well.
S2 (12:03):
So what got you involved anyway in the first place.
S7 (12:05):
What got me involved? So my background is in marketing
and fundraising, but prior to doing that, I used to
be a teacher actually, and I was a former professor,
so I really value education. My daughter has a learning disability,
and so I know how hard it is to be
a parent of a child who needs those additional resources.
And and I also love learning. I always tell people
(12:28):
that I believe that I single handedly kept Brisbane Library
in business during Covid because I could requested so many books.
So for me, I just love the opportunity to be
able to come to promote reading, particularly for individuals that
don't always have access. I mean, if you think about
it very often, we say it for every 100 books
a sighted child has access to a blind or low vision.
(12:48):
Child only has access to about 4 or 5, and
the idea that anybody would be prohibited from reading just
broke my heart. And so I love the opportunity to
give that gift of literacy to someone.
S6 (12:59):
How has Braille House evolved over the years since its beginning?
S7 (13:03):
We actually it's quite interesting because we actually do a
lot of the same things. We are heavily dependent on
our volunteers. Our volunteers are what started Braille House and
we now have many more volunteers. I think our volunteers
outnumber our staff about five or 6 to 1, probably,
and they do. Really, our volunteers do the hard yards
in terms of, you know, determining the books that we
(13:25):
are going to transcribe, which of course is due typically
to popular demand, but they take care of all the
transcription and make sure that it gets done. I guess
now one of the things is, is that because we
have the social connections through social media and online, it
makes it quite a bit easier for people to contact
us and to see what we have and to ask questions.
(13:45):
But at the same time, a lot of those initial
engagements are still very true. I mean, 127 years ago,
to a large extent, it was only people here in
Brisbane that barred from the library. But now we have
people from Perth and Tasmania and all over the place
that we actually have personal connections with. They never necessarily
been here, but they received books from us every week
or so, and they call us all the time to
(14:07):
ask what's new and to ask us for suggestions. So
that personal connection is still a very big piece of
the part that we play.
S6 (14:14):
Can you share any notable milestones in Brough House's history? Well, when.
S7 (14:19):
We first opened 127 years ago, we opened with 54
books and it was in a bookcase, I think it
was in the Telegraph Building in Brisbane. Please don't quote
me on that though. That could be wrong. But we've
since grown significantly, so we've been housed in several different
organisations and about 70 years ago, I think it was
we were able to obtain a Queenslander. And so now
(14:42):
all of our books are housed there, which is great
because we certainly do need the space, even though people
don't typically come in and browse very much because we
are sending these books all over the place, we do
need that space. In terms of notable times in our history.
I guess one of the biggest ones is when we
started getting assistive technology, because previously they used to do
(15:04):
everything by hand where they actually had to poke out
the dots. And then later on we got the Sainsbury machines,
the Perkins machines, and now everything is done electronically for
the most part. So I would have to say the
technology certainly has been a big part and really influenced
how our operations run, which is fantastic.
S2 (15:21):
We actually have somebody volunteering for our station that uses
your resources quite often. Vicki Cousins reads the geographic magazine
and yes, I supply her the magazine.
S7 (15:31):
I just spoke to Vicki yesterday, as a matter of fact,
and she just ordered a one of the things that
we do is we do calendars each year. And so
I just spoke to make it the other day because
she was ordering a 2025 calendar. So yes, we know
her quite well. I think she has done some proofreading
for us, if I remember correctly.
S6 (15:45):
So what are some of the key initiatives that Royal
House has been involved in in 2024?
S7 (15:51):
Well, there's a few different ones. I mean, advocacy is
always a big one. So we always go to Canberra
and we go to Subi and the various different organisations
and conferences to advocate for resources for students and people,
individuals in general. But another thing that we've been involved
in more recently is we got a really great grant
from the Queensland Department of Tourism, and with that, we
(16:15):
were able to do a project about accessible tourism. And
the idea is specifically designed for making facilities more accessible
to those who are blind to low vision. So we
created a number of resources and checklists so that hotels, restaurants,
accommodation providers, tourist attractions like museums or events like music festivals,
(16:40):
we made these various different resources available so that they
could try to make their facilities and destinations more friendly
and more accessible to those in vision impaired community. And
we've had some great uptake with that. We were actually
just at destination Q, which is the tourism conference for
Queensland that was held here in Brisbane, and we did
(17:01):
have a number of organisations come and speak to us.
And they said, look, we've had more and more people,
it seems, coming to see us. And sometimes because of
their their sight limitations, you know, we like to be
able to make it more accessible to them. What can
we do? So that's probably been our biggest project. It's
been a raving success. If anybody's interested, they're welcome to
visit our website because all of those resources are on
(17:24):
there for free. People and destinations can make their products
that they're offering accessible the better for everybody.
S2 (17:30):
As someone who is not sort of started out acclimatized
to the blind and vision impaired community, has there been
a book or a publication that sort of crossed your
desk where you've gone? I wouldn't have thought of that.
S6 (17:41):
Oh, well, I have.
S7 (17:42):
To actually say that I have made the effort to
read a number of books recently, because I've actually only
been with the organization for about two months, and there
was one recently that I read. It's called Hello Darkness,
my old friend. His last name is Greenberg, and he
was actually, he was the uni roommate of Art Garfunkel.
(18:03):
I don't know if you're familiar with Simon and Garfunkel.
S6 (18:05):
Of course. That's where the line comes from. Sammy. Silence.
S7 (18:08):
Yes, exactly. Yes. It was about somebody who was really
trying to find his way in the world, despite obviously
the challenges of vision loss. But I would have to
actually say, in all honesty, I've learned so much from
the people that I work with, despite the fact that
I've read a number of different books that have been
quite interesting. It's really been the people that I've interacted with.
And because so many of our volunteers are vision impaired,
(18:30):
sometimes it's been by mistakes. For instance, I remember my
first week on the job. I turned around too quickly
and shut a door without looking behind it. And I've
since learned, you know, doors always stay open or they
always stay closed. So we had.
S6 (18:42):
That whole much.
S7 (18:43):
More careful about those things.
S6 (18:45):
I've heard it's a pretty steep learning curve. I mean,
I've been blind all my life, so to me it's
just the norm. But I've heard that it's pretty steep
learning curve to try and understand how we function differently.
S7 (18:55):
But it's been a lot of fun. And I have
to say, I'm impressed by sort of the understanding that
comes with it by so many people and the good
humour of a lot of the people that I work with.
And yes, it's been a lot of fun. I've really
enjoyed it.
S6 (19:07):
How does brio House help the blind and low vision
community in adapting to modern challenges, such as technology and accessibility?
S7 (19:15):
Um, well, I mean, one of the things that has
been associated with this tourism project is, of course, you know,
encouraging things like signage and guide training and those sorts
of things. Um, we do a lot with regard to courses. So,
for instance, there are a lot of our courses are
not necessarily by people who are blind or low vision,
(19:36):
typically students, kids, they learn Braille at school to a
large extent. Now a lot of the adults that come
to us have sort of lose their sight over time.
So the vast majority of people who take our courses,
they are either people who are losing their sight, and
they want to make sure that they are able to
have touched the literacy available to them before it's completely gone.
(19:56):
Or it may be family members of children who are
vision impaired. So we often have parents or older siblings
come to us and they're interested in being able to
read Braille essentially for print users. So that's probably one
of the biggest things that we've done, but we really
enjoy advocating in general. We have a great relationship with
(20:17):
a lot of the politicians and the government ministers, and
just making sure that we're doing what we can to
keep it front of mind, because I think one of
the challenges, again, since I'm relatively new to the sector,
one of the things that I've come to learn is
that while it's easy to see a wheelchair, and so
organizations often think about putting in a wheelchair ramp, but
(20:38):
vision impairment, sometimes it's not obvious and people don't necessarily
think about it so much as something that we need
to worry about. So unless you know somebody, sometimes it's
not front of mind. So we try to really advocate
and inform people and educate people so that they are
aware of what this needs, and also so that they
(20:58):
understand the value of Braille and why it's important. I
didn't know 3 or 4 months ago. I didn't know
why Braille was important because I figured, oh, well, everybody
just listen to books. Why not? And then I came
to understand. It was explained to me, you know, if
you don't learn Braille, then you don't learn grammar, and
then you can't write properly. And if you can't write properly,
you can't get a job. And as soon as somebody
(21:19):
said that to me, it was like I just had
a completely different perspective as to how important Braille is.
And sometimes that's all somebody needs to hear to understand
why it is that we need to keep Braille around,
and we need to make sure that that people are
learning it and that we are funding it and making
sure that we have all of those resources, you know, books, etc.,
(21:40):
available to them.
S6 (21:41):
With the evolving technologies such as audiobooks and text to
speech software providing other print alternatives, why do you believe
that Braille is so vital, and what can we do
to ensure its continued relevance?
S7 (21:54):
Well, I mean, I certainly do understand how important it
is now when it comes to ensuring that people can communicate.
And I know that I think that there are probably
fewer and fewer producers out there, despite the fact that
there certainly is the demand. It is good that there
are devices that are being put into place and relatively
new assistive technologies, which is fantastic. I was speaking to someone, actually,
(22:18):
I think it was Vicky, and I think she was
saying that she used to work for the Braille library
in South Australia. Does that sound like it would have
been Vicky? That was Vicky. Yes. Okay, right. That's what
I thought. Okay, so Vicky was telling me she used
to work at the Braille library in South Australia, and
then they closed it. And that was how she came
to know Braille House. And she said that she was
very appreciative and thankful that Braille House was around. And
(22:39):
I think that really struck me. And I just think
that's unfortunate that sometimes these resources close and they figure, oh, well,
we don't need them. And they can, you know, I'm
sure that those books got absorbed by someone, whether it
was US or Mission Australia or some other resource. But
I hate the idea of closing any of these resources
because they're few and far between these days. So we
do need to make sure that they are still being
(23:00):
kept alive and out there for people to use.
S2 (23:02):
As this show goes out. It's International Braille Day, so
maybe we can wish Mr. Braille himself a happy birthday. Well,
have you got any thoughts on this auspicious day?
S7 (23:12):
Oh, my goodness, I know that. I certainly, since I
have joined Braille Health, have spent a lot of time
telling people about Braille, and that's certainly something that I'm
going to be doing on this day. And I think
that I knew very little about Louis Braille until right
before I started this position, and I've since learned quite
a bit. And I'm very thankful to him for creating
(23:33):
this and, you know, enabling it to bring literacy to
so many people. I think that Braille has been around
just a little bit longer than Braille house, so it's
actually quite new in the scheme of things, but it's
done so much in the time that it's been around.
So I know that I'm quite thankful for that. And yes,
I hope that the attention to it just continues to
grow in the years to come.
S6 (23:54):
Can you tell us about any events, workshops or like
fundraising efforts that are planned for 2025? Sure.
S7 (24:02):
Well, I know that we are actually. So this is
actually looking to build a new building. Our building is
quite old. And so we are hoping and looking to
begin a capital campaign sometime in the next year or
two because as I said, our building is currently 70
years old and so it's not as accessible as we
would like. You know, the roof leaks when it rains.
(24:23):
So we would like to make sure that our books
are well taken care of. And because there is reduction
in transcription, we just need a bit more space. So
that is one of the big things that we are
going to be working towards, is looking at getting that
funding so that we can build that new building, because
like I said, we have the Braille literacy challenge. We
would like to be doing more and more events each year,
both for younger and older Braille readers. We also have
(24:47):
a literary competition where people write essays, so we want
to be able to engage even more, you know, through
our library borrowers and then the larger community, but in
our location. So that's that's really going to be our
big push for the next couple of years.
S6 (25:02):
And what opportunities are there for people to get involved
with bro House, either as volunteers or supporters.
S7 (25:09):
Absolutely. Whether you're already familiar with Braille or not, we
definitely have lots of positions. For instance, I on the
weekends am also a transcriber, but I only transcribe word
at this point in time. So we have word transcribers.
We actually have transcribers who also do Braille. We have
our production team that actually prints and finds the books.
So if you're here in Brisbane you can do something
(25:30):
like that. We do as I said, we do offer
courses and a number of our volunteers are former teachers
or former mobility specialists. So they know Braille and they
actually work with students in a lot of cases, 1
to 1. So there's plenty of opportunities to do different things.
And then, of course, with regard to our fundraising, we
have some incredible people that do help us. One gentleman
(25:52):
down in New South Wales who raises over $20,000 every
year for us through containers for change, and he sends
that straight to us, which is fantastic. So some people
do fundraisers, you know, in their own way. And then
some people actually come and fundraise for us. But we'll
also speak to a lot of foundations and philanthropists. So
if there are any out there that are keen to
support us, we'll gladly make good use of any donation,
(26:15):
financial or in-kind, because there's always a big demand for
services that we provide. How do people.
S2 (26:20):
Get in contact with.
S7 (26:21):
You? We would love for people to get in contact
with us, so they're certainly welcome to get in contact
with me. I am Kelly and I take care of
our fundraising, marketing and business development so they can get
in contact with me through email. Um k Fallon p
h e l a n at Kubwa. Wargo. Otherwise, they're
(26:42):
certainly welcome to call us. Our office number is 07Â 3848Â 5257.
And of course.
S2 (26:50):
There's the website.
S7 (26:51):
Oh, yes. Wargo.
S2 (26:53):
And of course, those that information will be available in
the podcast notes when this does does drop. Okay.
S7 (26:58):
Excellent.
S6 (26:59):
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Happy World Braille Day I hope you had a fantastic
day and thanks for being on the program.
S8 (27:06):
Thank you.
S3 (27:08):
That's a wrap for this week's show. A big thank
you to Sean and Kelly for featuring on this week's
episode of Studio One.
S2 (27:15):
And of course, thank you for listening. Next week we
ask the question, what do you like in the kitchen and.
S3 (27:22):
What happens when things go wrong?
S2 (27:24):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have any experience of any
of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there is something we should be
talking about. You never know. Your story and insight may
help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.
S3 (27:39):
You can email us at studio one at Vision Australia.
Org that's studio number one at Vision australia.org. Or perhaps
you can reach out to us on our social media,
whether it be on Facebook or Instagram. Just look for
VA Radio Network. We want to hear from you.
S1 (27:57):
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community
Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
This is studio one on Vision Australia radio.
S2 (00:13):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S3 (00:14):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (00:15):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view. Here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S3 (00:21):
On this week's.
S2 (00:21):
Show, it's International Braille Day and we're celebrating 200 years
of Braille.
S3 (00:27):
On this special occasion, we speak with Kelly Phelan from
Braille House about its history, her role and the initiatives
and projects planned for 2025.
S2 (00:37):
And Sean Oliver pipes in with a little bit of
his own opinions on things.
S3 (00:41):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One, or if you think there's something we should
be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (00:56):
You can email us Studio one at Vision Australia. Org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia.
S3 (01:02):
Org or perhaps you can drop us a note on
our Facebook at facebook.com, slash Viva Radio network.
S2 (01:09):
Well, happy braille day.
S3 (01:10):
Happy world Braille day to you, Sam. And how are
you on this rather auspicious occasion?
S2 (01:15):
Well, I'm sort of here, there and everywhere, because. Yes,
if you're listening to us on podcast, it's International Braille Day.
If you're listening to us via the radio, it's well,
it's not, it's not, but we do our best, as
it were. And of course, talking about our best. I
really don't know much about Braille because I don't not
(01:37):
really a Braille user. So what I ended up doing
was going, well, Lizzie, it's all up to you. So
what have you got for us?
S3 (01:44):
Well, did you know that Louis Braille developed the braille
system at the age of just 15 after losing his
sight in a childhood accident?
S2 (01:53):
No, I didn't, but what I did know is that
his initial system that he came up with didn't just
have dots that had dashes. For some reason, that that
is weird. I don't think I could not picture a
braille with dots and dashes.
S3 (02:06):
Well, I mean, we do have dashes and we do
have a dot, but it doesn't really look like a dot. Anyway,
Louie was inspired to create a tactile reading and writing
system for the visually impaired based on a military night
writing code called Ecriture Nocturne, originally developed for soldiers to
communicate silently in the dark.
S2 (02:28):
Well, I suspect that that has probably been used many
times also on Braille music camps, when people perhaps were
told to be quiet and all of a sudden passing
notes or something like that.
S3 (02:40):
Well, yes. I mean, I don't know how it would
have gone back in the 80s and 90s, but especially
with the advent of adaptive technology, with braille notes and things,
it was certainly a lot easier to send messages and
things like that. But over time, Louis six dot system
revolutionized accessibility for blind and low vision individuals worldwide.
S2 (03:00):
And, well, it seems to have become adapted to pretty
much every language on Earth. I mean, we actually established
that last year when we were doing our International Braille
Day special. Then that and it's continued to evolve, hasn't it?
S3 (03:15):
Exactly. Well, when I was doing my research, I found
that the Braille is not a language, but rather a
tactile reading and writing system that can represent any language.
Braille has been adapted for many languages worldwide, including get this, Chinese, Arabic,
and even music notation in Braille music. The system uses
(03:35):
unique symbols to represent pitch, rhythm, and dynamics, allowing visually
impaired musicians to read and compose music independently.
S2 (03:45):
So the other thing I of course I know about Braille,
having gone to school with several totally blind people or
people that need braille, is that the Perkins brailler has
a multiple of uses as well. It's a very good
crowd control, um, device. Is it?
S3 (04:01):
I would have never thought.
S2 (04:03):
If you swing it and it hits somebody, it stay.
Stay hurt.
S3 (04:07):
You're not wrong. And actually, it makes a very good
musical instrument. I do. I have to find it. But
there is a clip somewhere. I think it happened at
music camp, but I don't think we were the first
ones to do it. It was a Braille orchestra. So
everybody in the orchestra had a Perkins Brailler, and they
had a specific tapping or typing sound, or they had
(04:28):
to ding the carriage returns. So it was a really
unique piece of music and quite rhythmic and percussive. It
was amazing.
S2 (04:35):
And yes, it has a very specific sound as well.
So if you've got one Braille user in a school
full of non braille users, you know exactly where they're
doing their classes from.
S3 (04:45):
Not not just that, but I don't know if you've
noticed Braille takes up space. It does so much space.
Like this page of facts I've got here takes up
nearly two pages and it was like two lines of
of text on a phone. So it takes up so
much space. But like again, with the advent of technology
(05:06):
such as the braille note or other braille displays. You
don't have to worry about that because the space is infinite.
And to tell.
S2 (05:13):
Us a little bit more about that, we have some
bloke called Sean.
S3 (05:17):
Yes, Sean. He's also totally blind and relies quite heavily
on Braille. And he was on our show last year
talking about his company, SPO solutions. How do you think
Braille note taking devices have made life better for Braille users?
S4 (05:34):
I think that's a bit of a double edged sword,
because in one way they have because, you know, you
can carry the device around, you can take notes on it,
you can use it as a Braille display. You can
you can play games on it.
S2 (05:47):
That's important.
S4 (05:48):
Well, yes and no. Um. Like like any technological device,
they can also be absolutely intrusive, as long as you
understand where the need is to use them. Why? That
(06:09):
you need to use them for that particular use case.
Then I don't think there's too much of a problem
with them, to be perfectly honest. They can be quite advantageous,
especially if you want to do things quietly. I mean,
a lot of blind people I've heard say I don't
want my phone talk and I don't want to hear people,
(06:31):
and I don't want people to hear my messages out
in public. Well, use a Braille display, even if it's
a little 14 cell jobbie that you hang around your neck.
You're winning because it's quiet then.
S3 (06:42):
That's true. That's very.
S2 (06:43):
True. Oh, it's quieter than the old Perkins.
S4 (06:47):
Quiet.
S3 (06:47):
Everything's quiet in the old Perkins.
S4 (06:50):
Yes, rather.
S3 (06:52):
So there's also been a rise of accessible Braille signs
in tourist attractions. What are your thoughts on that?
S5 (07:01):
Um.
S4 (07:02):
I'm about to crack a pun here. I've not seen any.
S3 (07:05):
That's funny. Well, they've got some Mount Lofty. Um, they've got, like,
the plaques that describe the plants and stuff. They've got
them in Braille as well.
S4 (07:13):
Oh, well, that's a win.
S2 (07:15):
What do you think of the, say, um, Braille on
the outside of doors and on lifts and buttons and
stuff like that?
S4 (07:22):
Very handy. Very handy. Although I was, um, I was
up at, uh. Oh. What's that? What's that? Like where?
Beyond blindness used to do the walking. Oakton. Oakton. Uh,
the accessible toilets there. There is a whole blurb in
Braille as to how the thing works and all of
that sort of thing. I stood there and read it
(07:43):
one day.
S3 (07:45):
Yeah, I did too. I love that. It's always amusing
to me when someone goes, oh, look, there's Braille and
I have to sit there and read it.
S4 (07:52):
And yeah, you got to read it.
S3 (07:53):
I haven't actually read Braille, um, consistently for years now.
I'm a very slow reader, but then you watch somebody
else read it, and they're so fast.
S4 (08:03):
Yes. I have a friend of mine in the States
and you hear her fingers fly over the cells. It's like,
how are you doing that?
S2 (08:14):
So to you, what does Braille actually mean? I mean,
what's it's sort of deeper meaning to you.
S3 (08:20):
Why do you have to ask me such difficult questions? Well,
I suppose it allows me to read things and interpret
them the way that I want to interpret them. So
I remember we had this discussion last year on the subject,
but when you're reading an audio book, you are essentially
listening to the reader's interpretation of the work, and you
(08:45):
can't really interpret it any other way because it's words
that you're hearing. Whereas when you're reading text by Braille,
you can interpret it whichever way you want. You can
sound the words any way in your head. You can
decide how the pitch changes and therefore how the text changes.
So to me, Braille gives me the independence to interpret
(09:07):
works of fiction or non-fiction even.
S2 (09:10):
But surely you can do that also with a screen reader?
S3 (09:14):
Well, no. Not really. I mean, you can't interpret what
you see on the screen reader either, because again, it's
just words that you're hearing. And generally screen readers have
very monotone pitches, so there's no interpretation. It's like when
you interpret a text message that someone sent to you,
you then have the the independent thinking skills to be
(09:35):
able to interpret that text the way that you want to.
And that's the ability that Braille gives me. Not only that,
but as a musician, it does allow me to compose
my own music, which I do quite a lot.
S2 (09:46):
Well, I think we've learned that Braille means a lot
to this totally blind person, but, well, we are moving on.
We don't just want to listen to us, tell us
about the lady we are going to hear from now.
S3 (10:00):
So Kelly Phelan, who we're speaking to on today's show,
has been working for Braille House for a couple of months,
and I believe she does a lot with marketing and
fundraising and business development, as that was sort of the
role that she was doing prior to. But she lets
us know the history of Braille House and her role there,
and she tells us about some of the fundraising activities
(10:20):
and the initiatives and projects planned for 2025. Kelly, welcome
to Studio One. It's great to have you.
S6 (10:29):
Thank you. It's great to be here. To start, can
you tell us what Braille House is and the role
that it plays in the blind and low vision community? Absolutely.
S7 (10:38):
So Braille House is 127 years old. We started as
a lending library, and essentially seven ladies here in Queensland
decided that they wanted to ensure that those individuals who
are blind or low vision are able to read. So
they started by hand, going ahead and transcribing books into Braille.
(10:58):
So it was a very small operation initially, and it
has since grown. And we send books all over Australia
by post. We have a library of about 8000 volumes,
and one of the things that sort of sets us
apart in terms of what we're able to provide to
our library borrowers, is that we also do magazines, which
are very popular. In addition to the library itself. We
(11:18):
also do barrel production, and then we also do a
number of events for the community. So one of our
big events that we do each year is the Brown
Literacy Challenge. So school students who are blind and low
vision and learning Braille can come to Braille, house and
participate in real time. Or they can also log in
over zoom or teams and participate in both reading Braille
(11:39):
and then also writing. So typing Braille essentially on a Perkins.
And then they give out medals and awards for the competition.
So it's actually quite fun because a lot of times
the students are isolated in their schools. So they get
to come and they get to meet students from various
different schools, and they end up making friends. It's a
great social opportunity for them. So it's a lot of
(12:00):
fun for them and for those of us who who
work there as well.
S2 (12:03):
So what got you involved anyway in the first place.
S7 (12:05):
What got me involved? So my background is in marketing
and fundraising, but prior to doing that, I used to
be a teacher actually, and I was a former professor,
so I really value education. My daughter has a learning disability,
and so I know how hard it is to be
a parent of a child who needs those additional resources.
And and I also love learning. I always tell people
(12:28):
that I believe that I single handedly kept Brisbane Library
in business during Covid because I could requested so many books.
So for me, I just love the opportunity to be
able to come to promote reading, particularly for individuals that
don't always have access. I mean, if you think about
it very often, we say it for every 100 books
a sighted child has access to a blind or low vision.
(12:48):
Child only has access to about 4 or 5, and
the idea that anybody would be prohibited from reading just
broke my heart. And so I love the opportunity to
give that gift of literacy to someone.
S6 (12:59):
How has Braille House evolved over the years since its beginning?
S7 (13:03):
We actually it's quite interesting because we actually do a
lot of the same things. We are heavily dependent on
our volunteers. Our volunteers are what started Braille House and
we now have many more volunteers. I think our volunteers
outnumber our staff about five or 6 to 1, probably,
and they do. Really, our volunteers do the hard yards
in terms of, you know, determining the books that we
(13:25):
are going to transcribe, which of course is due typically
to popular demand, but they take care of all the
transcription and make sure that it gets done. I guess
now one of the things is, is that because we
have the social connections through social media and online, it
makes it quite a bit easier for people to contact
us and to see what we have and to ask questions.
(13:45):
But at the same time, a lot of those initial
engagements are still very true. I mean, 127 years ago,
to a large extent, it was only people here in
Brisbane that barred from the library. But now we have
people from Perth and Tasmania and all over the place
that we actually have personal connections with. They never necessarily
been here, but they received books from us every week
or so, and they call us all the time to
(14:07):
ask what's new and to ask us for suggestions. So
that personal connection is still a very big piece of
the part that we play.
S6 (14:14):
Can you share any notable milestones in Brough House's history? Well, when.
S7 (14:19):
We first opened 127 years ago, we opened with 54
books and it was in a bookcase, I think it
was in the Telegraph Building in Brisbane. Please don't quote
me on that though. That could be wrong. But we've
since grown significantly, so we've been housed in several different
organisations and about 70 years ago, I think it was
we were able to obtain a Queenslander. And so now
(14:42):
all of our books are housed there, which is great
because we certainly do need the space, even though people
don't typically come in and browse very much because we
are sending these books all over the place, we do
need that space. In terms of notable times in our history.
I guess one of the biggest ones is when we
started getting assistive technology, because previously they used to do
(15:04):
everything by hand where they actually had to poke out
the dots. And then later on we got the Sainsbury machines,
the Perkins machines, and now everything is done electronically for
the most part. So I would have to say the
technology certainly has been a big part and really influenced
how our operations run, which is fantastic.
S2 (15:21):
We actually have somebody volunteering for our station that uses
your resources quite often. Vicki Cousins reads the geographic magazine
and yes, I supply her the magazine.
S7 (15:31):
I just spoke to Vicki yesterday, as a matter of fact,
and she just ordered a one of the things that
we do is we do calendars each year. And so
I just spoke to make it the other day because
she was ordering a 2025 calendar. So yes, we know
her quite well. I think she has done some proofreading
for us, if I remember correctly.
S6 (15:45):
So what are some of the key initiatives that Royal
House has been involved in in 2024?
S7 (15:51):
Well, there's a few different ones. I mean, advocacy is
always a big one. So we always go to Canberra
and we go to Subi and the various different organisations
and conferences to advocate for resources for students and people,
individuals in general. But another thing that we've been involved
in more recently is we got a really great grant
from the Queensland Department of Tourism, and with that, we
(16:15):
were able to do a project about accessible tourism. And
the idea is specifically designed for making facilities more accessible
to those who are blind to low vision. So we
created a number of resources and checklists so that hotels, restaurants,
accommodation providers, tourist attractions like museums or events like music festivals,
(16:40):
we made these various different resources available so that they
could try to make their facilities and destinations more friendly
and more accessible to those in vision impaired community. And
we've had some great uptake with that. We were actually
just at destination Q, which is the tourism conference for
Queensland that was held here in Brisbane, and we did
(17:01):
have a number of organisations come and speak to us.
And they said, look, we've had more and more people,
it seems, coming to see us. And sometimes because of
their their sight limitations, you know, we like to be
able to make it more accessible to them. What can
we do? So that's probably been our biggest project. It's
been a raving success. If anybody's interested, they're welcome to
visit our website because all of those resources are on
(17:24):
there for free. People and destinations can make their products
that they're offering accessible the better for everybody.
S2 (17:30):
As someone who is not sort of started out acclimatized
to the blind and vision impaired community, has there been
a book or a publication that sort of crossed your
desk where you've gone? I wouldn't have thought of that.
S6 (17:41):
Oh, well, I have.
S7 (17:42):
To actually say that I have made the effort to
read a number of books recently, because I've actually only
been with the organization for about two months, and there
was one recently that I read. It's called Hello Darkness,
my old friend. His last name is Greenberg, and he
was actually, he was the uni roommate of Art Garfunkel.
(18:03):
I don't know if you're familiar with Simon and Garfunkel.
S6 (18:05):
Of course. That's where the line comes from. Sammy. Silence.
S7 (18:08):
Yes, exactly. Yes. It was about somebody who was really
trying to find his way in the world, despite obviously
the challenges of vision loss. But I would have to
actually say, in all honesty, I've learned so much from
the people that I work with, despite the fact that
I've read a number of different books that have been
quite interesting. It's really been the people that I've interacted with.
And because so many of our volunteers are vision impaired,
(18:30):
sometimes it's been by mistakes. For instance, I remember my
first week on the job. I turned around too quickly
and shut a door without looking behind it. And I've
since learned, you know, doors always stay open or they
always stay closed. So we had.
S6 (18:42):
That whole much.
S7 (18:43):
More careful about those things.
S6 (18:45):
I've heard it's a pretty steep learning curve. I mean,
I've been blind all my life, so to me it's
just the norm. But I've heard that it's pretty steep
learning curve to try and understand how we function differently.
S7 (18:55):
But it's been a lot of fun. And I have
to say, I'm impressed by sort of the understanding that
comes with it by so many people and the good
humour of a lot of the people that I work with.
And yes, it's been a lot of fun. I've really
enjoyed it.
S6 (19:07):
How does brio House help the blind and low vision
community in adapting to modern challenges, such as technology and accessibility?
S7 (19:15):
Um, well, I mean, one of the things that has
been associated with this tourism project is, of course, you know,
encouraging things like signage and guide training and those sorts
of things. Um, we do a lot with regard to courses. So,
for instance, there are a lot of our courses are
not necessarily by people who are blind or low vision,
(19:36):
typically students, kids, they learn Braille at school to a
large extent. Now a lot of the adults that come
to us have sort of lose their sight over time.
So the vast majority of people who take our courses,
they are either people who are losing their sight, and
they want to make sure that they are able to
have touched the literacy available to them before it's completely gone.
(19:56):
Or it may be family members of children who are
vision impaired. So we often have parents or older siblings
come to us and they're interested in being able to
read Braille essentially for print users. So that's probably one
of the biggest things that we've done, but we really
enjoy advocating in general. We have a great relationship with
(20:17):
a lot of the politicians and the government ministers, and
just making sure that we're doing what we can to
keep it front of mind, because I think one of
the challenges, again, since I'm relatively new to the sector,
one of the things that I've come to learn is
that while it's easy to see a wheelchair, and so
organizations often think about putting in a wheelchair ramp, but
(20:38):
vision impairment, sometimes it's not obvious and people don't necessarily
think about it so much as something that we need
to worry about. So unless you know somebody, sometimes it's
not front of mind. So we try to really advocate
and inform people and educate people so that they are
aware of what this needs, and also so that they
(20:58):
understand the value of Braille and why it's important. I
didn't know 3 or 4 months ago. I didn't know
why Braille was important because I figured, oh, well, everybody
just listen to books. Why not? And then I came
to understand. It was explained to me, you know, if
you don't learn Braille, then you don't learn grammar, and
then you can't write properly. And if you can't write properly,
you can't get a job. And as soon as somebody
(21:19):
said that to me, it was like I just had
a completely different perspective as to how important Braille is.
And sometimes that's all somebody needs to hear to understand
why it is that we need to keep Braille around,
and we need to make sure that that people are
learning it and that we are funding it and making
sure that we have all of those resources, you know, books, etc.,
(21:40):
available to them.
S6 (21:41):
With the evolving technologies such as audiobooks and text to
speech software providing other print alternatives, why do you believe
that Braille is so vital, and what can we do
to ensure its continued relevance?
S7 (21:54):
Well, I mean, I certainly do understand how important it
is now when it comes to ensuring that people can communicate.
And I know that I think that there are probably
fewer and fewer producers out there, despite the fact that
there certainly is the demand. It is good that there
are devices that are being put into place and relatively
new assistive technologies, which is fantastic. I was speaking to someone, actually,
(22:18):
I think it was Vicky, and I think she was
saying that she used to work for the Braille library
in South Australia. Does that sound like it would have
been Vicky? That was Vicky. Yes. Okay, right. That's what
I thought. Okay, so Vicky was telling me she used
to work at the Braille library in South Australia, and
then they closed it. And that was how she came
to know Braille House. And she said that she was
very appreciative and thankful that Braille House was around. And
(22:39):
I think that really struck me. And I just think
that's unfortunate that sometimes these resources close and they figure, oh, well,
we don't need them. And they can, you know, I'm
sure that those books got absorbed by someone, whether it
was US or Mission Australia or some other resource. But
I hate the idea of closing any of these resources
because they're few and far between these days. So we
do need to make sure that they are still being
(23:00):
kept alive and out there for people to use.
S2 (23:02):
As this show goes out. It's International Braille Day, so
maybe we can wish Mr. Braille himself a happy birthday. Well,
have you got any thoughts on this auspicious day?
S7 (23:12):
Oh, my goodness, I know that. I certainly, since I
have joined Braille Health, have spent a lot of time
telling people about Braille, and that's certainly something that I'm
going to be doing on this day. And I think
that I knew very little about Louis Braille until right
before I started this position, and I've since learned quite
a bit. And I'm very thankful to him for creating
(23:33):
this and, you know, enabling it to bring literacy to
so many people. I think that Braille has been around
just a little bit longer than Braille house, so it's
actually quite new in the scheme of things, but it's
done so much in the time that it's been around.
So I know that I'm quite thankful for that. And yes,
I hope that the attention to it just continues to
grow in the years to come.
S6 (23:54):
Can you tell us about any events, workshops or like
fundraising efforts that are planned for 2025? Sure.
S7 (24:02):
Well, I know that we are actually. So this is
actually looking to build a new building. Our building is
quite old. And so we are hoping and looking to
begin a capital campaign sometime in the next year or
two because as I said, our building is currently 70
years old and so it's not as accessible as we
would like. You know, the roof leaks when it rains.
(24:23):
So we would like to make sure that our books
are well taken care of. And because there is reduction
in transcription, we just need a bit more space. So
that is one of the big things that we are
going to be working towards, is looking at getting that
funding so that we can build that new building, because
like I said, we have the Braille literacy challenge. We
would like to be doing more and more events each year,
both for younger and older Braille readers. We also have
(24:47):
a literary competition where people write essays, so we want
to be able to engage even more, you know, through
our library borrowers and then the larger community, but in
our location. So that's that's really going to be our
big push for the next couple of years.
S6 (25:02):
And what opportunities are there for people to get involved
with bro House, either as volunteers or supporters.
S7 (25:09):
Absolutely. Whether you're already familiar with Braille or not, we
definitely have lots of positions. For instance, I on the
weekends am also a transcriber, but I only transcribe word
at this point in time. So we have word transcribers.
We actually have transcribers who also do Braille. We have
our production team that actually prints and finds the books.
So if you're here in Brisbane you can do something
(25:30):
like that. We do as I said, we do offer
courses and a number of our volunteers are former teachers
or former mobility specialists. So they know Braille and they
actually work with students in a lot of cases, 1
to 1. So there's plenty of opportunities to do different things.
And then, of course, with regard to our fundraising, we
have some incredible people that do help us. One gentleman
(25:52):
down in New South Wales who raises over $20,000 every
year for us through containers for change, and he sends
that straight to us, which is fantastic. So some people
do fundraisers, you know, in their own way. And then
some people actually come and fundraise for us. But we'll
also speak to a lot of foundations and philanthropists. So
if there are any out there that are keen to
support us, we'll gladly make good use of any donation,
(26:15):
financial or in-kind, because there's always a big demand for
services that we provide. How do people.
S2 (26:20):
Get in contact with.
S7 (26:21):
You? We would love for people to get in contact
with us, so they're certainly welcome to get in contact
with me. I am Kelly and I take care of
our fundraising, marketing and business development so they can get
in contact with me through email. Um k Fallon p
h e l a n at Kubwa. Wargo. Otherwise, they're
(26:42):
certainly welcome to call us. Our office number is 07Â 3848Â 5257.
And of course.
S2 (26:50):
There's the website.
S7 (26:51):
Oh, yes. Wargo.
S2 (26:53):
And of course, those that information will be available in
the podcast notes when this does does drop. Okay.
S7 (26:58):
Excellent.
S6 (26:59):
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Happy World Braille Day I hope you had a fantastic
day and thanks for being on the program.
S8 (27:06):
Thank you.
S3 (27:08):
That's a wrap for this week's show. A big thank
you to Sean and Kelly for featuring on this week's
episode of Studio One.
S2 (27:15):
And of course, thank you for listening. Next week we
ask the question, what do you like in the kitchen and.
S3 (27:22):
What happens when things go wrong?
S2 (27:24):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have any experience of any
of the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there is something we should be
talking about. You never know. Your story and insight may
help somebody else who is dealing with something similar.
S3 (27:39):
You can email us at studio one at Vision Australia.
Org that's studio number one at Vision australia.org. Or perhaps
you can reach out to us on our social media,
whether it be on Facebook or Instagram. Just look for
VA Radio Network. We want to hear from you.
S1 (27:57):
Vision Australia Radio gratefully acknowledges the support of the Community
Broadcasting Foundation for Studio One.
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