What Makes ‘Bitcoin Jesus’ Roger Ver Tick?

Bitcoin “evangelist” Roger Ver has said in at least one interview ... when he was a little boy, he wanted to be a garbage truck driver. That way, he  could drive heavy machinery around his neighborhood and get to talk to everyone. Fast forward, to the recent past and Roger Ver actually DOES, talk to a LOT of folks…Just not  while collecting their trash. He was instead promoting Bitcoin as the future of money and finance so much so that people started calling him “Bitcoin Jesus.” According to his website, he’s one of the early investors in several BTC projects -  including Kraken, purse.io, Blockchain.com, and Ripple. 

But in 2017, Ver switched his enthusiasm away from Bitcoin and more toward something called Bitcoin Cash - an offshoot of the original currency. Recently, Ver became entangled in the bankruptcy of crypto lender Genesis that says BTC Jesus owes millions of dollars on trades. So, what happens when Bitcoin Jesus speaks? Do people say ‘Hallelujah’ or ‘deliver us from evil.’

Bloomberg Reporter Olga Kharif joins host Vildana Hajric to discuss.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg ihod podcast, And
I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing Editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News.
It's Tuesday for one. I'm Weldonna Hyrick in today for

(00:28):
Stacy Marie Ishmael. Bitcoin evangelist Roger Ver has said in
at least one interview that when he was a little boy,
he wanted to be a garbage truck driver. That way
he could drive a heavy machinery around his neighborhood and
get to talk to everyone. Fast forward to the recent past,
and Roger Ver actually does talk to a lot of folks,

(00:49):
just though while collecting their trash. He's instead been promoting
bitcoin as the future of money and finance, so much
so that people started calling him Bitcoin Jesus. According to
his website, he's one of the early investors in several
bitcoin projects, including Cracking, Blockchain, dot Com, and Ripple, but

(01:09):
in verse, which his enthusiasm away from Bitcoin and more
towards something called bitcoin cash, which is an offshoot of
the original cryptocurrency. Recently, Vera became entangled with crypto company Genesis.
So what happens when Bitcoin Jesus speaks. Do people say
hallelujah or do they say deliver us from evil? Here

(01:33):
to help me explore the life and work of Bitcoin
Jesus is Bloomberg reporter Olga Karif. Olga, You've actually had

(01:53):
a lot of access to Roger. You've interviewed him many times,
You've known him over the years, You've talked to quite
a bit. So just lay out the scene for us.
What is he like? What should we know about his personality?
And about this person he's known as bitcoin Jesus because

(02:16):
he actually found out about bitcoin way before most people
even heard the word. He started buying bitcoin in Tleven
when it traded for less than one dollar, and of
course now it's trading over for over twenty one dollars um.
And when he found out about bitcoin, he started telling

(02:38):
everybody about it. So there are stories so Fragier were
essentially carry know about bitcoin at barbecues and house parties
and pretty much he was talking about it everywhere he
could get a chance to, and so he became known
worldwide as Bitcoin Jesus. Maybe tell us a bit about
his escapades within the space, because I'm curious about how

(03:01):
he's been able to sustain this very interesting persona for
the last decade or more. He is sort of very intense.
He has very strong opinions about things. And one of
the things he's best known for is the creation of
bitcoin cash. So back in the word, debates and oin

(03:23):
developers about how to scale bitcoin, and there were different
ideas about how to scale the network, and Roger was
a big believer that the main stream view of how
to scale the network was wrong and didn't adhere to
the vision that's the Toshiakamoto, the anonamous creator of bitcoin,

(03:44):
had in mind, because the Toshi wanted bitcoin to be
a transactional currency, and Roger felt like if this mainstream
idea of what bitcoin should become was implemented, and it
would become more of a store of value, which is
what bitcoin is today. And so he was part of
a contingent that supported split off a version of bitcoin

(04:08):
network called bitcoin cash, and of course bitcoin cash is
still around, although it's a much smaller network than Bitcoin.
I mean, Bitcoin has a market cap currently of I
think something like four hundred fifty billion and bitcoin cash
is two and a half billion. But you know, it's
a sizeable and an important cryptocurrency out there that he supports.

(04:34):
So basically he has in the past laid out some
views that maybe we're counter to what people at the
time we're thinking, or maybe he was sort of being
provocative in in some sense. But I'm wondering what what
the sense is from you of how the crypto community
views him, largely speaking, because obviously the name Bitcoin Jesus

(04:54):
or the nickname Bitcoin Jesus sort of has this connotation,
this larger than life kind of tation to it. Absolutely,
it certainly does. So years ago, he was probably an
example of sort of the mainstream bitcoin adopter who was
somebody who was libertarian, opposed to government interference, somebody who

(05:18):
essentially viewed cryptocurrency as a way to avoid government interference
and regulation, you know, cryptocurrency as a lot of the
early adopters, so it was a way to essentially move
value around without government knowledge or regulation, which as we

(05:40):
more recently, I think our scene is not quite how
it's it's working out. But um more recently I think
his views have been viewed as more fringe as more
institutions and retail investors had waited into the space. But
he's obviously still a very well known figure in the
crypto space. I like your use of the word fringe

(06:04):
and just to explain how maybe the space has evolved
since those early early years. But tell us maybe a
bit more of how characteristic or how exemplary his libertarian
or anti government views are maybe of of other participants
who had gotten in a really really long time ago,
or even how prevalent views like that might still be

(06:25):
in the space today. Or is is it really the
case that this type of thinking has just sort of
been sidelined within the crypto space over the years. Roger's views,
I think partially stemmed from the fact that when he
was in his early turnies, he was convicted of illegally
selling fireworks on eBay and he was actually put in

(06:48):
jail and has a very dark view of US government.
He actually after that he moved to Japan and and
then to send this send kids. But a lot of
early bitcoin adopters were people who essentially felt that crypto
was a way to financial freedom and allowed people to

(07:10):
not depend on governments that might devalue your feat or
do something something that could have ramifications for your savings
or for your way of life. And how this industry
evolved was, you know, in the last three years maybe
or so, more institutions actually from Wall Street started paying

(07:33):
attention to crypto and stepping in and offering services or investing.
We've seen a few sort of public companies invest in bitcoin,
and we've seen millions of retail investors step into crypto,
and the space, like you said, has changed quite a

(07:53):
bit from being sort of this very niche space with
mostly you know, very geeky computer programmersh loving coins too.
I wouldn't say completely mainstream, but close to mainstream market.
Of course, this whole space had been in a bear

(08:14):
market for the last year or so, and that definitely
has pushed back adoption and raised questions about what it's
going to look like once regulators are done shaping it.
But I think we are very very far removed from
this niche libertarian space that it used to be. Okay,

(08:36):
and then just one more thing about the way he
is thinking about the world. Can you tell us about
his views on the blockchain. He strongly believes that essentially
crypto should be used uh in transactions to buy a sandwich,
or to even to buy a car, and so he's
been promoting bitcoin cash for use in transactions, and he

(09:00):
is very much unhappy with the way bitcoin has developed.
He is no longer promoting bitcoin itself. Interesting enough, um,
you know, because bitcoin has emerged as more of a
store of value and he believes this is not what
crypt or should be about. He of course has a

(09:22):
lot of opponents in the in that view, but that's
what he believes. Up next, more with Boomberg reporter all
the caif on Roger Verse dealings with coin Flex and Genesis.
We'll be right back, all got We know that ver

(09:45):
has been entangled with Genesis, which also has been in
the news quite a bit recently as we know now
remember the Winkle Boss brothers have been waging a public
fight against Genesis, even calling for Barry Silber, the founder
of the digital currency group I hired, to step down
as as CEO. But they claim that he owes them
millions of dollars for some trades that he had with them.

(10:08):
So can you tell us about what's going on between
the two of them in this feud that they're having publicly? Sure? So,
Genesis has a landing arm and a trading arm, and
the landing arm recently went bankrupt, but the trading arm
of the company is still around and functioning, and Genesis

(10:28):
Trading recently filed a lawsuit against Roger for saying that
he hasn't settled about twenty million dollars worth of options
on the platform. When I talked to Roger about this,
he said, you know, my contract with Genesis Trading basically
stipulates that they have to be solvent for me to

(10:49):
settle any transactions. And when I asked them for financial statements,
they declined to provide them. So that's what he says. Uh,
And I guess we'll see how it all plays out.
But it's interesting that this lawsuit comes on the heels
of another sort of payment issue that Roger has had
in the last year. Coin Flex, which is an exchange,

(11:12):
alleged that Roger failed to pay a margin call, and
this litigation with him is still ongoing. Now. Coming back
to Genesis, Roger said on on social media that he
has enough money to pay back. He just believes that
Genesis Trading is in violation of their contract with him.

(11:35):
I'm wondering how Roger actually responded to coin Flex's accusations.
He says he actually doesn't owe them any money, So
I guess we'll see how it all plays out. At
this point, it's sort of not clear what the actual
situation is and who's telling the truth. Oh God, tell
us what you think verse influence is in the crypto

(11:55):
space going forward? And what is it about these big
names that tend to dominate the crypt industry in the
crypto space in general, and why we all follow them
so closely. The big names, the early investors in this industry,
they're they're still very influential because they have their fingers
and a lot of different pies. Like Roger for instance,
he was an early investor in Ripple and bid pain

(12:17):
and blockchain, dot com and cracking, so he runs his
own crypto exchange. So he is very influential and listened
being listened to by a lot of people because he
is very involved in this industry still, as are a
lot of the early adopters, early investors. And I think

(12:42):
he also has the perspective on this industry that some
of the more recent investors perhaps don't have. He has
seen a lot of this market up and and downs,
and he sort of knows how genially, uh, the scrypto
cycles play out, and at least I, you know, I
find it very interesting and helpful to follow what he's doing. Alga,

(13:07):
I love I'm missing with you about the old crypto days,
if we can call them that. So maybe five or
six years ago, I remember, at least at Bloomberg it
was mainly me and you covering cryptocurrencies and covering some
of these big names in the space that remain big
names in the space to this day. So thank you
so much for joining us on the podcast today. Oh

(13:29):
it was so much fun. Thank you so much for
all Donna. That was Bloomberg reporter Olga Karif you can
find more of a reporting on the Bloomberg terminal and
on Bloomberg dot com. For more, be sure to check
out our twice weekly newsletter, Bloomberg Crypto. This is Bloomberg Crypto,

(13:51):
a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heeart Radio. For
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Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions for the show
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(14:15):
Our producers are Mohammed Farup and Sharon Barriro. Our associate
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At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidron. I'm
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