April 14, 2025 • 40 mins
Bloomberg’s Ed Ludlow discusses Trump's comments on tech tariff reprieves being only temporary. Plus, William Kovacic, George Washington University Law Professor, on Meta facing an FTC antitrust trial. And Dr. Ezinne Uzo-Okoro of Harvard University describes Blue Origin's all-female space flight.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of
where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.
This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Live from San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology, coming up,
not off the hook. President Trump says tech tariffs are
coming for electronics, saying the reprieve was only temporary, plus
a potential breakup Meta faces the FTC, which says the
tech giant is a monopoly for owning Instagram and WhatsApp,
and an all female crew defying gravity. We bring you
(00:58):
the details of Blue Origins historical space mission. We also
have some breaking news crossing the Bloomberg terminal, and it
comes from the New York FED who have published and
released their March survey of consumer expectations. The main headline
one year US inflation expectations rising to three point six
percent from three point one percent in the month of March.
(01:19):
But there's also a feeling here that unemployment expectations are
also moving higher, and that we could see unemployment move
to a level jumping four point six percent according to
that survey, to early pandemic levels. A lot to pack
into this show. Let's get out to Bloomberg's Ryan Vastelica,
who's across the technology sector for US. Okay, a lot
(01:39):
of information over the weekend. Right now, those big, big
tariff numbers don't apply to electronics, but tariffs are coming.
What are you seeing in tech shares this morning? Hey,
good morning.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So right now we are seeing a pretty broad based
rally companies like Apple, EhP, the hardware side of things,
the chip side of things, either, I'll do them pretty
well so far today, it seems like people are interpreting
this as maybe at least a step in the right direction,
perhaps a softer stance after some of the hardline numbers
that really send stocks reeling, you know, previous couple of days.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
What's interesting, We're just showing shares of Apple up three
point seven percent, not as high as they were and
perhaps the pre market, but one of the names we
focused on, wool Street, is still treading water. Right Ryan,
I'm thinking about profit expectations and basically we're kind of stuck.
No one is adjusting their forecasts for how these companies
are going to be impacted going forward.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
What do you say, Yeah, absolutely so, this is a
major major issue. Especially as people start to consider maybe
whether these stocks look attractive following how much they've come down.
So far, we haven't seen analysts really cut their estimates
too dramatically on Apple, Nvidia or the other check names,
or you know, the tech sector in general. That suggests
that even though these stocks have come down quite a bit,
(02:54):
their pes may not be as attractive as they seem
if it turns out the E and the PE ratio
is sort of artificially high as it stands right now.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So this is something we're going to be watching, especially as.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
We get into earning season, any kind of commentary on
what to expect them by the remainder of the year.
You know, we haven't yet seen whether companies are going
to be issuing forecasts at the rate they have in
the past. Some companies have pulled their forecast is given
the uncertain environment. So there's still a lot of questions
out there about what we could expect. That puts the
idea of what fair value is into question, and that's
(03:26):
why we're seeing a lot of you know, people waiting
to see what analysts are doing and what estimates look
like after a month or so.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
There's a lot of people that want technology companies to
see steep revisions in their guidance to feel comfortable. There
are lots of people who say they don't care. Bloomers.
Brian Vassenica busy couple of weeks for you and I
coming up. Here's what President Trump had to say about
tariff's yesterday. He was speaking on Air Force One.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Well, that's going to be an anspert soon and we'll
we'll be discussing it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But we'll also talk to companies.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
You know, you have to show a certain flexibility, so
such products might lose flexibility some products for some products.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, maybe we're j are now by IDC's Ryan Reef,
Group vice President for the company's worldwide Device Tracker Suite,
which of course includes phones, tablets, wearables, so much more so.
The state of play is actually not clear. Right Friday night,
we kind of believed it was a reprieve of consumer
electronics in particular not being subject to the one hundred
(04:22):
and twenty five percent level tariff. By Sunday you have
the administration saying it is not a pause or a reprieve.
It's just that we will have electronic specific tariffs to come.
When you got to your desk, this morning. Where do
you think that we stood.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
I think we said that personally in my opinion is
I think this was part of the master plan. It's
hard to actually know if that will actually be the
or was the case, but I think, you know, I
think generally the at least on the tech aspect of
these tariffs that we've all seen and announced on April second,
there was no way that the economy was going to
sustain around these, really from the US side, but really
(05:01):
both sides, I think if you really boil it down,
so I think many were expecting this. That was just
discussed on previous interviews that you guys have had today.
But I think now it sort of comes back to
actually the previous Ryan that from your team that you
just had on made a good point, right. I think
we're not seeing supply chains move that much. There's Ben Pullan.
We expect there's going to be a lot more just
(05:23):
to get done what you can just in case it's
a Q two thing. But even from the the the
imamless side of the street, you know, it seems like
everyone's kind of holding ground because of the uncertainty across
the board.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
You published some really interesting data from IDC this morning
on the smartphone market in the first quarter, and this
is the market share figures, right, And this is why
we keep focusing on Apple in particular. You see that
after you know, Samsung single biggest player after Samsung, but
generally the market grew one point five percent in the
first three months of this year. I'm seeing a lot
(05:56):
of evidence that there was some front running because people
knew towns were coming. How much did that factor into
your research?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
There's definitely a play of it into the numbers being
you know, I guess growth in the first quarter and
so forth, but I don't know that it was as
drastic as what we sort of saw some media headlines
towards the end of March. What we're seeing is a
lot of that activity works now it's coming to fruition,
especially with the pause on tech. So there's really two
ways to think about this. The supply side understands what
(06:26):
they're up against day to day, hour to hour, right,
you know, there's either a tariff on or off. If
it's off, you make a decision of do you want
to just speed up things to try to produce, build
and ship. The consumer side is not that sort of
straightforward because generally, I think what we the industry is
looking at, we're certainly looking at, is does all of
this uncertainty that's consistent like basically owning the news, does
(06:49):
that just overall slow down economic demand? Not tech related,
but just in general, we believe it does. I think
that's also a factor that these OEMs Apple and who
have to build in you don't want to up too
much in and they haven't sit there that people aren't
willing to buy because they're concerned.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Ran you just said the supply side does know what's
going on? You really think that, well, you know, let's
take Apple as a case study. Right The reporting from
Mark German is that the strategy right now in the
case of the iPhone is prioritize iPhones built in India
move them to the United States. I think in India
they do about thirty million handsets a year. That's nothing
in the scheme of things of the overall production. Given
(07:27):
that most of those iPhones go to a big market
in America, do you really think that they have a
plan to adjust and that they understand what the administration
is doing with electronics tariffs.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
I don't think that they are guesstimating the plan. I
think that some companies, this is speculation, Just be very clear,
would you know, either have some discussions that have been
ongoing since you know, the election prior to that. That's
just what you know, big companies do every election year.
But I would think that they were very focused on
terrorists because that's what this administration ran on. And I
(08:00):
don't think that they know every detail, but I would
assume that some of these big companies were either forewarned
or you'll have some heads up, but maybe not. And
I think that that the India piece keeps coming up
with iPhone and I think is very interesting, no question
in my mind. Prior to you know, April second and
even this election, the plan was to ramp up more
(08:23):
towards the end of a set, like you know, more
assembly and manufacturing India. That's been pretty well disclosed. But
whether or not this shifts things that quickly to be
able to feed the US market, I'm a little bit
more on the skeptical side of that, But I think
that these these sort of pause or exemptions, whatever you
want to call them, on China, that's going to be
the focus. You're trying to build as much where it's
(08:44):
most efficient in the product lines you.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Ned Ryan Reeth for d C with some timely data,
often more than a decade since perch seeing Instagram and WhatsApp.
Meta is facing a landmark trial by the FTC alleging
it made quote killer acquisitions that stifle competition for more
(09:09):
blombergs Riley Griffin joins us on set. We're underway. What's
the latest headlines out of DC.
Speaker 6 (09:14):
We have heard that introductory remarks have begun and the
FTC is laying out a case in which it's alleging
that Meta engage in a buy or bury strategy, squashing
the competition and ultimately degrading the quality of the apps
that Meta now aren't.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
We're going to point out on what you just said
the headlines emerging. This is a behind closed doors proceedings.
So the counter argument from Meta is pretty straightforward. Actually,
let's bring it up a quote from the chief Legal
Council at Meta that wrote over the weekend. But basically
they're pointing out that how can you have a monopoly
in a market where other players have very similar numbers
(09:49):
to their own, citing TikTok and YouTube in particular, and
arguing Meta has a less than thirty percent market share
in those markets.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
It's an amazing argument, in part because the FDC has
centered this around Snap and Meta is saying anybody with
a kid at home knows that TikTok is a great
competitor to Instagram. What I find so interesting about this
ed is that one of Meta's reputational weaknesses over the
years has been that it copies its competitors, and here
(10:19):
in this case, Meta's legal team is actually using that
to its advantage.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It's going to go on and on, and we will
cover it throughout the week. Riley Griffin, thank you very much.
Let's get more on Meta's historic trial. William Kovacic, George
Washington University Law School, Global Competition Professor of Law and Policy,
joins us now And even before the proceedings got underway
this morning. This morning, William, the chair of the FTC,
gave the news to an interview to Fox Business and
(10:46):
basically came out strongly, we see Meta as monopoly. What
do you make of that? The timing of that comment
and the timing of the interview.
Speaker 7 (10:55):
I think he's trying to underscore the commitment of the
Commission to carry this case forward. There have been lots
of questions raised about whether the interest of the White
House and the case, the lobbying by Meta of the
White House might lead to a settlement some action that
would sell the case out. And I think what the
Chair is trying to do in a variety of interviews,
(11:17):
including this morning, is to say, in his words, we're
keeping our foot to the gas. We're not going to
back down.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I should point out for an audience, you're a former
member of the FTC and you chair the agency between
March two thousand and eight March two thousand and nine.
You and I, I feel like over the years have
discussed the threat of an antitrust action against Meta and
others many times, and so I ask, how does this one,
this trial compare and does it have teeth? This does
(11:45):
have teeth.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
There are formidable obstacles in the path of the FTC,
prevailing obstacles that Judge Bozburg, who's trying the case, is
mentioned before. But the requested relief is deadly serious. The
divested sure of both Instagram and WhatsApp. The FTC has
marshaled a good body of evidence, it seems that comes
(12:07):
in many ways right out of the files of Meta
itself the words of its senior leadership. So it's going
to try the case in many ways by showing that
Meta itself believed that it had market power and it
believed that the acquisitions would suppress competition. Now Meta has
some good responses to this, as Riley just mentioned, but
this is a This is a deadly serious exercise.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
For the company.
Speaker 7 (12:31):
And if the judge finds liability and takes the remedial
path that is available to the FTC and to the judge,
we could see a major divestiture that would affect the
company dramatically.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
A major divestiture. I mean, I I what are the
chances of that the odds? How do you even model
for that in a trial scenario.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
I suppose that if we were looking at a betting
shop and we were trying to place odds, Meta would
have an advantage. And the reason for the advantage is
that it's going to be able to marshal arguments that
we don't have market power in this market niche that
the FDC has defined that the FTC can't toss aside TikTok,
YouTube and x and other social network providers. Uh, and
(13:16):
that's gonna that's going to be a hard hurdle to
get over, So I give I give a I give
a modest advantage to to to Meta in handling the case,
But a lot of the FDC's evidence is going to
come right out of its files. We're going to have
senior executives on the stand giving us a really an
unprecedented look at how the company operates, and that's what
(13:36):
always makes trials risky and dangerous for defendants.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
We're just showing again Jennifer Neustad, Meta's chief legal officer's
argument over the weekend, which is exactly as you explain.
Look at the traffic and audience size of TikTok and
YouTube and their argument metas argument that they have a
less than thirty percent market share. Could we just go
back to where we started, which was the FTC chair
on Fox Business this morning. Ahead of the election of
President Trump, a lot of people looked at jd Vance
(14:03):
and his attitude towards big tech. It does seem in
the early stages that President Trump listens to jd Vance
about oversight of big tech in the antitrust context. What
do you make of that?
Speaker 7 (14:16):
I think he is listening and perhaps there's a predisposition
to listen and listen favorably, because notice the number of
occasions on which the President has suggested that were it
not for decisions made by Meta by Google in twenty twenty,
that he would have gained reelection. So I don't think
he's disposed in a general way to be fond of
(14:37):
these companies. And I think he has accepted many of
the arguments that the Vice president has offered to him,
So he has there are a lot of reasons for
which he might be very wary about taking a settlement
that would be good for Meta here. I suspect he'll listen,
but he's not ordinarily disposed to think that they are
a particularly good actor.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
William Cove Church of the George Washington University Law School,
and of course, former f TC chair himself, thank you.
Cryptocurrency platform Cracking is expanding beyond digital currencies by now
offering US equity and ETF trading. Joining US now Cracking
(15:22):
co CEO Argent Setti along with my mate Bloombau Shnali
Bassectionali take it away Rgin.
Speaker 8 (15:27):
Thanks for joining us. Of course, this is a big
move by kracking to get into traditional stocks, and my
question is how much is this a move to take
on Robinhood Coinbase in a much larger way in terms
of providing a one stop shop for clients.
Speaker 9 (15:44):
Yeah. So if you take a step back on the market,
I think a lot of people think of crypto and
traditional equities and traditional finance differently than we don't, which
is our core customer base is professional traders and they
exist all over the world very similarly in the way
in which they think, eat and trade, and so Coinbase
(16:06):
we think, and Robinhood in terms of prosumers and people
getting onboard and into crypto. And then you have you know,
other companies similar to Interactive Brokers that focus on professional
trading and day trading. So for us, our goal has
always been to be a leader in crypto assets, but
also be a leader in the way in which our
professional trading and customers and clients want to trade, may
(16:28):
that be long term or short term, and so this
is a this is a part of the path for
us to continue to do that. In addition, we you know,
we went to an agreement to acquire a company called
Ninja Trader that focuses on professional trading for retail derivatives.
So what you see us doing is just go across
(16:50):
a wider range of asset classes, including equities and commodities.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
What does it mean for you financially Because of course,
when you think about krack and, a lot of investors
are awaiting highly anticipated one day IPO, what can you
tell us about that path and how this helps.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
You get there?
Speaker 9 (17:06):
So, the most important thing for krack And is its clients,
and what our clients care about is transparency, security and
counterparty risk. And so as we continue to expand globally,
not just here in the United States, but Europe, UK, Canada,
Australia and now and to Asia, the thing that our
clients care about most is that counterparty risk and regulatory clarity,
(17:30):
and so what we're seeing is more regulatory clarity and
eventually market stability in the crypto ecosystem and so on.
Behalf of our clients will always want to be transparent
with our financials, what we're doing, proof of reserves, etc.
And if we do decide to go public, it'll be
a journey along the way.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Timing is everything. Oh, jenn, I found it so interesting
to see your release because if you think about the
business model right of Robinhood or a coinbase, they very
much focus on volatility. Volatility drives volumes and transaction. How
much is that a factor for you in this initiative.
Speaker 9 (18:06):
So it's look, if you're thinking about their clients, then
you are thinking about all the milestones along the way.
That is the most important. So, as I mentioned before,
being transparent with our financials, being transparent with our reserves
and their deposits, being transparent about what the products are,
making sure that our exchange is fair right, there's no rebates,
(18:28):
there's no discounts to the way in which all of
our customers and clients interact with our exchange. That's what's
most important. Volatility in the market is volatility in the market.
That's always going to be the case. I care more
about the slope and the long term growth for what
access to capital markets and debt markets give our customers
more than anything else.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Rogen elsewhere in your portfolio, Empire, you were an investor
in Xai and post Xai and x you know, there's
clearly a long term view to look at payments and
look at other financial service offerings that could you see
working with Linda and the team on something like that.
Speaker 9 (19:05):
Yeah, I think what's really important is where our clients
and customers are so today you can think of us
as trading, but you know there's also products for savings
in yield depending on the type of customer. And then
eventually you can think about payments, payments and remittances in
order to facilitate you know, peer to peer commerce or
(19:26):
business to peer commerce.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
So again, those will be journeys along the.
Speaker 9 (19:30):
Way, which is we've created the platform and the infrastructure
to be able to provide this, and we're already partnering.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
With folks to do that today.
Speaker 9 (19:36):
So almost you know, ten percent of our transactions today
are and through our experiences. It's through people connecting through
our API argent.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
One question I have as a former private investor in
so many ways, you're very familiar with the xaxai story,
but what about the potential for tokenization to make assets
like this more public? How quickly can you get there?
Speaker 9 (20:00):
Technologically we can get there tomorrow, It's more about regulatory clarity,
What is the legal and client relationship. How do you
think about which assets real world assets that we talk
about bringing on into crypto and making it programmable. So
what I'd say is that what we're doing now, given
that the future of training is pretty much borderless. It's
around the clock, it's twenty four to seven in crypto
(20:21):
rails has allowed that is that this lays the ground
with groundwork not just for myself but the other exchanges
worldwide to be able to provide equities and digitize them
to become more programmable. So tokenization of equities is a
term you hear a lot about. I think when you
think about global liquidity pools and global access to capital
and then demand for these assets no matter where they
(20:44):
might be in the US or Europe, I actually think
this lays a great groundwork for companies to start thinking
about how they should list who they should work with
and where those global equidity pools come from.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Cracking co CEO Argent SETI greats have you back on
the program and bloom Begstell's thank you for bringing it
up to us. Now coming up on the show, Electronics
expecting a temporary reprieve from tariffs, but President Trump says
there are more tariffs on the way. We'll have more
of that. Next. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. Ed Ludlow
(21:22):
Here in San Francisco Financial Markets, the story is technology
focus indexes really hitting session lows. Look at the NASDAK
one hundred or for example, the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index, a
temporary pause or reprieve from those high level tariffs on China,
making people think things might not be so bad for
the electronics sectors. However, there is a pledge, particularly in
(21:43):
the semis case, that a bucket of tariffs specific to
semiconductors is coming. We also look at Apple as a
case study. Right Apple has been so interesting to track
over the last six days based on how it's training
on these headlines. So it's the biggest points drivers to
the upside on the NASDAK one hundred right now. But
if they're is a specific bucket coming for electronics, there's
still the questions about what it will do. The administration
(22:05):
wants on shoring of manufacturing. Apple seems focused on shifting
more to India. Let's get back to our top story.
Companies like Apple and Nvidia appearing to score a major
win only for the White House, so then rain on
their parade. President Trump posting on true Socials saying quote,
there was no tariff exception which was announced on Friday.
These products are subject to the existing twenty percent fentanyl
(22:28):
tariffs and they are just moving to a different tariff bucket.
Bluemis KD Lions joins US from Washington, d C. I mean,
for me, the main learning of all of the last
few days is that actually the White House is starting
to think about how it defines semiconductors and defines electronics,
and something very specific is coming.
Speaker 10 (22:51):
Yeah, that's what the White House is saying. Well, the
President pushback on the idea that there's exemptions as being
fake news.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Ed.
Speaker 10 (22:56):
I would note that the White House statement literally said
clarification of exemption which comply to hundreds of billion dollars
in consumer electronics that the US imports. But what the
President and others, including the Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik, are
arguing is that this does not mean this is a
free pass forever. This really is just about procedure. Yes,
these goods for now will not be subject to the
ten percent global baseline tariff or one hundred and twenty
(23:18):
five percent reciprocal tariff rate on all Chinese imports, but
they are still subject to that twenty percent fentanyl tariff
rate on everything that comes out of China, and they
will be subject to semiconductor teriffs that President Trump has
long been promising that just will be done. He refers
to in a different bucket under different authority, it would
be sectioned two thirty two. Realistically, that they're looking at
(23:38):
which factors in national security parts of the equation, and
the President on True Social over the weekend suggested it's
not just semi conductors, but the whole electronic supply chain
that they are looking at through this investigation. And while
he has been talking about this for some time, he
did indicate that this is coming sooner rather than later,
suggesting to reporters on Air Force one that he could
have a rate of the semicond doctor tariff announced within
(24:01):
the week and that the tariffs themselves will be applied
in the not so distant future. One thing I would
note here that does potentially provide a window of opportunity
or ability to maneuver for companies, if you will, like Apple,
is when the President was asked by a reporter yesterday
if there would be exemptions for things like iPhones, he
suggested that he can't be rigid with this, that there
has to be some degree of flexibility. It's just not
(24:24):
entirely clear how he's defining flexibility or where that so
called flexibility, might apply it inverse.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Katie Lines in Washington, d C. Thank you very much.
Let's broaden the conversation to include financial markets with city
Index senior around this. Fiona Cincota, Okay, you got into
your office this morning, you're at your desk, You looked
at the commentary from the president, and then you looked
at the documents from Friday night for exemptions. Where do
you think tariff policy stands for technology? Good morning?
Speaker 11 (24:56):
I would say about as clear as mud, to be honest.
You know, this just really highlighting the fact that there
doesn't seem to be really much clarity at all over
what the Trump administration is doing. Where we're at what
might come tomorrow, And this is just making it extremely
difficult for our clients to trade. It's making extremely difficult
(25:18):
for businesses to really have any level of planning still
over you know, where they should be moving manufacturing to,
from what rate, at what speed? When's this happening? I mean,
it just feels like the further we moved through these
tariff announcements, the more uncertainty there actually is over what's happening,
(25:38):
whether they'll be walked back, whether they'll be paused and
I think that's being reflected in the markets really quite
quite dramatically. Obviously, we saw those big swings across last week,
but even today, you know, we started off with the
futures considerably higher for the US tech stocks than what
they've opened at. Obviously we have seen some bound are
(26:00):
strong rebound in Apple, but I think, you know, given
the fact that that company has lost around a fig
of its value over the past few weeks, and the
rebound is still relatively smaller, and that again just highlights
that uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You know. This morning, in Video posted a blog explaining
that they're going to for the first time build their
AI supercomputer basically a server rack unit one in America.
And that's a plan that's happening largely in Texas over
the next four years. When you see a headline like that,
how much do you think it is a direct response
(26:36):
to the policy actions of this administration so far? Oh?
Speaker 11 (26:41):
Completely, I mean, I think this is absolutely a direct response.
I mean, this is what Trump's sort of aiming for.
And it's really interesting as well, because I mean it
is moving that manufacturing back to the US, which is
what Trump has you know, pledged for across his campaign.
And since taking and moving into the White House. What
(27:04):
I think is interesting here is what this will mean
for cost Obviously, I think it's you know, much more.
There are greater costs manufacturing in the US and perhaps
other parts of the world, or there were indeed before
these tariffs were being applied. So I mean, this is
what companies are doing in order to be able to
(27:24):
keep those costs down as much as possible, but it
will still result in an increasing costs. And I think,
you know, when this stuff come to consumer electronics particularly,
that's obviously when we're going to see that hitting the inflation,
We're going to see costs going up. But even with
these supercomputers, it's going to be affecting the costs involved.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So as of right this moment, and if you're a
technology investor, how do you play it? Do you stay
away from a name like Apple or others where there
is more of a direct read through for the pass
on of those costs at the consumer level?
Speaker 11 (28:01):
Yeah, you know, I think you know, tech obviously has
been very much under pressure since the Trump administration starts
denouncing these tariffs, and that's obviously because of the fact
that it's a growth stock.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I think there is.
Speaker 11 (28:15):
Much more potential looking towards value rather than growth right now.
So I think the tech sector is still quite a
difficult sector to be focusing in on given the level
of uncertainty. I think that still exists. Obviously there's uncertainty
across the board, but I think still more defensive areas
are going to be benefiting, such as healthcare industrials. Those
(28:38):
are areas that I would potentially be looking at rather
than the tech sector, which I think still could potentially
come under fire quite significantly from the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
City indexing, your analysts be honest and god, thank you
very much for your time on the show. Now, coming
up on Bluebog Technology, the first all female flight to
space has taken off board a Blue Origin rocket and
come safely back down to Earth. We'll have the details
of the launch and how it positions Jeff Bezos's rocket company.
That's coming up next. Also, take a look at some markets. Okay,
(29:10):
we know where it's session lows, particularly on tech specific
indices like NASDAQ one hundred. Interesting is the NASDAK Golden
Dragon China Index. That's a list essentially of the US
listed ADRs of Chinese technology companies and there is some
respite for those names as well that have swung with
a similar volatility to the rest of the tech sector.
(29:32):
We'll dig into why throughout the week. Stay with us,
We'll be right back. This has Blienberg Technology Q one.
Speaker 12 (29:58):
Less Lou Shepherd has cleared the tower.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
That was Blue Origins new Shepherd rocket taking off earlier
today with a star studded crew of six women, including
Lauren Sanchez, Jeff Bezos's Fionce, Gail King, and Katie Perry Bloomberg.
Sanna Pashankar is here to tell us more. And you know,
it was a notable sort of celebrity themed flight. What
happened and what's the big picture with this one? Sanna?
Speaker 13 (30:31):
Yeah, so it was an all female crew and that
was the first one since nineteen sixty three when a
female Soviet cosmonaut went to space herself. So it's really
the first all female crew with more than one member.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
And yeah, so they went up to space.
Speaker 13 (30:48):
I think they felt a lot of camaraderie among you know,
being all women and I think being all you know,
becoming astronauts for the first time. And so I think
it was you know, a really successful flight. Everything when
as planned, Everything went smoothly, and many of them mentioned
that it had really changed them coming back.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Interesting. Alright, Bloomberg, Saner Pashankar, Great to have you here
on Bloomberg Technology. Let's get more on why this flight
matters for the space industry. As an A Zuokoro, Senior
Fellow at the Harvard Belfa Center and former Assistant Director
for Space Policy at the White House, back with us
here on the show, I mean, there are a number
of ways that we can take this conversation right. The
(31:32):
way that I think about it is the data that
prior to today's mission. I think I'm right in saying
of all the people that have gone to space, only
fifteen one five percent were female. So what is the
significance from that standpoint?
Speaker 6 (31:45):
To you?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
As an a.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
This is greatly about American value creation and more innovation
from the space sector through the launch business. I think
that what we're seeing here is you're seeing glorigin menting
itself as a safe and dependent, dependable option to go
to space as a as a as an option for
(32:09):
space tourism. The fact that in eleven minutes you can
zoom past the Carmen line sixty two miles above sea
level in a fully reusable suborbital rocket that's built for
humans and come back safely. Is I think a big
American feet that we need to that we need to
(32:29):
highlight at the big question is what this means for
investors in space. Does this mean investors will move further
into the launch business and support additional flights. Does it
mean that we will see another one of bees in
another decade of being you know, making history again or
(32:50):
will this continue to become a commonplace.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I get asked a lot about the gap between Blue
Origin and space X, but the other perspective active of
the investors I speak to is that it's good to
have two private sector names that are able to have
a launch system that's reusable and that are launching with
greater cadence. How important, though, is it that Blue Origin
(33:14):
starts to make progress in its other domains outside a
New Shepherd. I'm talking about New Glen and also its
engine business.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
And you know there are also in the space station
business as well. There's right busy companies. So I think
that it's important that they are able to show successes
because in the space business as safe successes or all
that matters it's important to show these results in all
your businesses, and right now they are doing that, and
(33:43):
that builds well for the investment community that's watching what
this does to grow the space asset class.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Those that are skeptical look at this and say, this
is a shop window for Jeff Bezos and Blue in
the sense that it's an all celebrity, well mostly celebrity crew,
and that to everyday people, this just isn't achievable. That
you know, it's one hundred and fifty thousand dollars for
the deposit. We don't know how much a ticket costs,
because it depends on your relationship with Bezos. What's the
(34:11):
counter argument, what's the argument on how this progresses and
advances people's everyday opportunity to go to space. Yeah, the counter.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Argument is threefold. Actually. The first is it helps the
engineers with continuous repetition, which means that again they are
doing this safely, and they are they become more used
to doing it, so the engines and the systems perform
better or it becomes more commonplace technically. The second is
(34:42):
that when you think about the advent of air travel,
you know it wasn't affordable to everyone and so with
these repetitions, we hope that the intention is it helps
to bring down the costs so that you have more
people able to live space. And then thirdly, I think
(35:03):
that what this does, and you alluded to this a
bit with the two options, is it inspires others to
start more rocket companies in America. It inspires others to
see this as something that is, you know, something we
do every day and not once in a decade.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
As an a lean on your experience in office, how
do you think the White House and the pending NASSA
administrator would view blues mission this morning?
Speaker 4 (35:34):
I believe that pending ASCID administrator also was on a
similar flights. So one can't help but be excited that
this is continuing, that there are more people given access
to space. And I think that from the White House lens,
when you see an American company continue to foster the
(35:59):
innovation that we want to see are coming from American ingenuity,
but that's a plus. And then thirdly, I think from
the lens of NASA and even at the White House too,
you want to see American prominent American leadership, and that's
what you're seeing here.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Jeff Bezos has a very similar big picture view of
the future of space, like Elon Musk wants humankind to
be multiplanetary species. I think Jeff Bezos talks about living
and working in space. And you reference the future business
model that Blue has of the future of international space stations,
not the International Space Station, but with your experience, do
(36:41):
you have line of sight to that future from a
test a launched like such we had today.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Absolutely. The International Space Station is set to retire in
about six years, so by twenty thirty we expect that
to start being retired. And there are a number of
launch companies, a number of space companies, including a Origin,
that are working to replace this station. And we're not
(37:12):
going to see one station because the International Space Station
is quite large and it's built over a decade, so
you're going to see multiple options. You might have one
for pharmaceuticals. You might have a space station for scientific research,
and another for space tourism, a space hotel, if you will.
So what you see is the Again, this repetition of
flying gives a lot of It adds a lot of
(37:36):
experience and expertise to the teams that are building what
could be a future space station hotel.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
As an a. It was a acor from the Harvard
Belfa Center. It's great to have you back on the program. Okay.
A new story from this morning. Intel will sell a
fifty one in its programmable chips unit al Terra, to
(38:03):
silver Lake Management for eight point seventy five billion dollars.
Is it spins off its non central businesses. The deals
expected to close in the second half of twenty twenty five.
Intel bort Alterra ten years ago for seventeen billion dollars.
It's all part of new Intel CEO Lip Bhutan's strategy
to divest from non core assets. Okay. Another chip name
(38:24):
in Video is working to mass produce AI supercomputers that
are built entirely in the US by late twenty twenty six.
It's ramping up development of two manufacturing plants in Texas
and says it will produce a half a trillion dollars
worth of AI infrastructure in the United States over the
next four years. Bluemost brody Ford joins me with some
(38:47):
more details. I think it's really important to be honest
with the audience about this story because it's it's been
a multi week thing with in VideA. What do they
mean by produce half a trillion dollars worth of AI infrastructure, Brody,
And what we're talking about, I think is assembling this
system that they called accelerated computing, not just the fabrication
(39:08):
of key chips. That's a very important point.
Speaker 12 (39:11):
Yeah, I mean, electronics, more than any other good really
come a bit from everywhere. Right, you buy a component
from Vietnam, from China and in videos case, I'm not certain,
but it's coming from all over the world, and likely
what we're speaking about here is some of that kind
of later stage manufacturing assembly. In Vidia isn't one hundred
percent clear in this, but what we know is that
(39:31):
in recent weeks, in recent months, there's been a lot
of pressure for large companies, large tech companies to speak
about how we are investing in the US. If tariffs come,
supply chain disruptions come, we are ready. And so that's
kind of what in Vidia's messaging today that they are
ramping up their production in the US. They will have
capacity here and they will make up to five hundred
(39:54):
billion worth of goods here in the US just very quick.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
In Texas. Who the manufacturing partners, Yeah.
Speaker 12 (40:01):
They're pairing up with Fox khn Han how they're in Texas,
and so I mean essentially they are. You know, it's
kind of a who's who of the companies that are
doing manufacturing for Arizona. It's going to be TSMC and
their big Phoenix campus. Phoenix Campus we've heard a lot about.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Right, Bloomberg's Brady Ford out of New York City really
appreciate it. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.
And what a start of the week it's been, particularly
in the markets reaction. A lot of you are listening
to us as a podcast, so you know exactly where
you can find it on the Bloomberg terminal as well
as online on Apple, Spotify, and on iHeart. A lot
more to come throughout the week, particularly when it comes
(40:40):
to technology stocks. From San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of
where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.
This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Live from San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology, coming up,
not off the hook. President Trump says tech tariffs are
coming for electronics, saying the reprieve was only temporary, plus
a potential breakup Meta faces the FTC, which says the
tech giant is a monopoly for owning Instagram and WhatsApp,
and an all female crew defying gravity. We bring you
(00:58):
the details of Blue Origins historical space mission. We also
have some breaking news crossing the Bloomberg terminal, and it
comes from the New York FED who have published and
released their March survey of consumer expectations. The main headline
one year US inflation expectations rising to three point six
percent from three point one percent in the month of March.
(01:19):
But there's also a feeling here that unemployment expectations are
also moving higher, and that we could see unemployment move
to a level jumping four point six percent according to
that survey, to early pandemic levels. A lot to pack
into this show. Let's get out to Bloomberg's Ryan Vastelica,
who's across the technology sector for US. Okay, a lot
(01:39):
of information over the weekend. Right now, those big, big
tariff numbers don't apply to electronics, but tariffs are coming.
What are you seeing in tech shares this morning? Hey,
good morning.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
So right now we are seeing a pretty broad based
rally companies like Apple, EhP, the hardware side of things,
the chip side of things, either, I'll do them pretty
well so far today, it seems like people are interpreting
this as maybe at least a step in the right direction,
perhaps a softer stance after some of the hardline numbers
that really send stocks reeling, you know, previous couple of days.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
What's interesting, We're just showing shares of Apple up three
point seven percent, not as high as they were and
perhaps the pre market, but one of the names we
focused on, wool Street, is still treading water. Right Ryan,
I'm thinking about profit expectations and basically we're kind of stuck.
No one is adjusting their forecasts for how these companies
are going to be impacted going forward.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
What do you say, Yeah, absolutely so, this is a
major major issue. Especially as people start to consider maybe
whether these stocks look attractive following how much they've come down.
So far, we haven't seen analysts really cut their estimates
too dramatically on Apple, Nvidia or the other check names,
or you know, the tech sector in general. That suggests
that even though these stocks have come down quite a bit,
(02:54):
their pes may not be as attractive as they seem
if it turns out the E and the PE ratio
is sort of artificially high as it stands right now.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So this is something we're going to be watching, especially as.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
We get into earning season, any kind of commentary on
what to expect them by the remainder of the year.
You know, we haven't yet seen whether companies are going
to be issuing forecasts at the rate they have in
the past. Some companies have pulled their forecast is given
the uncertain environment. So there's still a lot of questions
out there about what we could expect. That puts the
idea of what fair value is into question, and that's
(03:26):
why we're seeing a lot of you know, people waiting
to see what analysts are doing and what estimates look
like after a month or so.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
There's a lot of people that want technology companies to
see steep revisions in their guidance to feel comfortable. There
are lots of people who say they don't care. Bloomers.
Brian Vassenica busy couple of weeks for you and I
coming up. Here's what President Trump had to say about
tariff's yesterday. He was speaking on Air Force One.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Well, that's going to be an anspert soon and we'll
we'll be discussing it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But we'll also talk to companies.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
You know, you have to show a certain flexibility, so
such products might lose flexibility some products for some products.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, maybe we're j are now by IDC's Ryan Reef,
Group vice President for the company's worldwide Device Tracker Suite,
which of course includes phones, tablets, wearables, so much more so.
The state of play is actually not clear. Right Friday night,
we kind of believed it was a reprieve of consumer
electronics in particular not being subject to the one hundred
(04:22):
and twenty five percent level tariff. By Sunday you have
the administration saying it is not a pause or a reprieve.
It's just that we will have electronic specific tariffs to come.
When you got to your desk, this morning. Where do
you think that we stood.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
I think we said that personally in my opinion is
I think this was part of the master plan. It's
hard to actually know if that will actually be the
or was the case, but I think, you know, I
think generally the at least on the tech aspect of
these tariffs that we've all seen and announced on April second,
there was no way that the economy was going to
sustain around these, really from the US side, but really
(05:01):
both sides, I think if you really boil it down,
so I think many were expecting this. That was just
discussed on previous interviews that you guys have had today.
But I think now it sort of comes back to
actually the previous Ryan that from your team that you
just had on made a good point, right. I think
we're not seeing supply chains move that much. There's Ben Pullan.
We expect there's going to be a lot more just
(05:23):
to get done what you can just in case it's
a Q two thing. But even from the the the
imamless side of the street, you know, it seems like
everyone's kind of holding ground because of the uncertainty across
the board.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
You published some really interesting data from IDC this morning
on the smartphone market in the first quarter, and this
is the market share figures, right, And this is why
we keep focusing on Apple in particular. You see that
after you know, Samsung single biggest player after Samsung, but
generally the market grew one point five percent in the
first three months of this year. I'm seeing a lot
(05:56):
of evidence that there was some front running because people
knew towns were coming. How much did that factor into
your research?
Speaker 5 (06:04):
There's definitely a play of it into the numbers being
you know, I guess growth in the first quarter and
so forth, but I don't know that it was as
drastic as what we sort of saw some media headlines
towards the end of March. What we're seeing is a
lot of that activity works now it's coming to fruition,
especially with the pause on tech. So there's really two
ways to think about this. The supply side understands what
(06:26):
they're up against day to day, hour to hour, right,
you know, there's either a tariff on or off. If
it's off, you make a decision of do you want
to just speed up things to try to produce, build
and ship. The consumer side is not that sort of
straightforward because generally, I think what we the industry is
looking at, we're certainly looking at, is does all of
this uncertainty that's consistent like basically owning the news, does
(06:49):
that just overall slow down economic demand? Not tech related,
but just in general, we believe it does. I think
that's also a factor that these OEMs Apple and who
have to build in you don't want to up too
much in and they haven't sit there that people aren't
willing to buy because they're concerned.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Ran you just said the supply side does know what's
going on? You really think that, well, you know, let's
take Apple as a case study. Right The reporting from
Mark German is that the strategy right now in the
case of the iPhone is prioritize iPhones built in India
move them to the United States. I think in India
they do about thirty million handsets a year. That's nothing
in the scheme of things of the overall production. Given
(07:27):
that most of those iPhones go to a big market
in America, do you really think that they have a
plan to adjust and that they understand what the administration
is doing with electronics tariffs.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
I don't think that they are guesstimating the plan. I
think that some companies, this is speculation, Just be very clear,
would you know, either have some discussions that have been
ongoing since you know, the election prior to that. That's
just what you know, big companies do every election year.
But I would think that they were very focused on
terrorists because that's what this administration ran on. And I
(08:00):
don't think that they know every detail, but I would
assume that some of these big companies were either forewarned
or you'll have some heads up, but maybe not. And
I think that that the India piece keeps coming up
with iPhone and I think is very interesting, no question
in my mind. Prior to you know, April second and
even this election, the plan was to ramp up more
(08:23):
towards the end of a set, like you know, more
assembly and manufacturing India. That's been pretty well disclosed. But
whether or not this shifts things that quickly to be
able to feed the US market, I'm a little bit
more on the skeptical side of that, But I think
that these these sort of pause or exemptions, whatever you
want to call them, on China, that's going to be
the focus. You're trying to build as much where it's
(08:44):
most efficient in the product lines you.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Ned Ryan Reeth for d C with some timely data,
often more than a decade since perch seeing Instagram and WhatsApp.
Meta is facing a landmark trial by the FTC alleging
it made quote killer acquisitions that stifle competition for more
(09:09):
blombergs Riley Griffin joins us on set. We're underway. What's
the latest headlines out of DC.
Speaker 6 (09:14):
We have heard that introductory remarks have begun and the
FTC is laying out a case in which it's alleging
that Meta engage in a buy or bury strategy, squashing
the competition and ultimately degrading the quality of the apps
that Meta now aren't.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
We're going to point out on what you just said
the headlines emerging. This is a behind closed doors proceedings.
So the counter argument from Meta is pretty straightforward. Actually,
let's bring it up a quote from the chief Legal
Council at Meta that wrote over the weekend. But basically
they're pointing out that how can you have a monopoly
in a market where other players have very similar numbers
(09:49):
to their own, citing TikTok and YouTube in particular, and
arguing Meta has a less than thirty percent market share
in those markets.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
It's an amazing argument, in part because the FDC has
centered this around Snap and Meta is saying anybody with
a kid at home knows that TikTok is a great
competitor to Instagram. What I find so interesting about this
ed is that one of Meta's reputational weaknesses over the
years has been that it copies its competitors, and here
(10:19):
in this case, Meta's legal team is actually using that
to its advantage.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It's going to go on and on, and we will
cover it throughout the week. Riley Griffin, thank you very much.
Let's get more on Meta's historic trial. William Kovacic, George
Washington University Law School, Global Competition Professor of Law and Policy,
joins us now And even before the proceedings got underway
this morning. This morning, William, the chair of the FTC,
gave the news to an interview to Fox Business and
(10:46):
basically came out strongly, we see Meta as monopoly. What
do you make of that? The timing of that comment
and the timing of the interview.
Speaker 7 (10:55):
I think he's trying to underscore the commitment of the
Commission to carry this case forward. There have been lots
of questions raised about whether the interest of the White
House and the case, the lobbying by Meta of the
White House might lead to a settlement some action that
would sell the case out. And I think what the
Chair is trying to do in a variety of interviews,
(11:17):
including this morning, is to say, in his words, we're
keeping our foot to the gas. We're not going to
back down.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I should point out for an audience, you're a former
member of the FTC and you chair the agency between
March two thousand and eight March two thousand and nine.
You and I, I feel like over the years have
discussed the threat of an antitrust action against Meta and
others many times, and so I ask, how does this one,
this trial compare and does it have teeth? This does
(11:45):
have teeth.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
There are formidable obstacles in the path of the FTC,
prevailing obstacles that Judge Bozburg, who's trying the case, is
mentioned before. But the requested relief is deadly serious. The
divested sure of both Instagram and WhatsApp. The FTC has
marshaled a good body of evidence, it seems that comes
(12:07):
in many ways right out of the files of Meta
itself the words of its senior leadership. So it's going
to try the case in many ways by showing that
Meta itself believed that it had market power and it
believed that the acquisitions would suppress competition. Now Meta has
some good responses to this, as Riley just mentioned, but
this is a This is a deadly serious exercise.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
For the company.
Speaker 7 (12:31):
And if the judge finds liability and takes the remedial
path that is available to the FTC and to the judge,
we could see a major divestiture that would affect the
company dramatically.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
A major divestiture. I mean, I I what are the
chances of that the odds? How do you even model
for that in a trial scenario.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
I suppose that if we were looking at a betting
shop and we were trying to place odds, Meta would
have an advantage. And the reason for the advantage is
that it's going to be able to marshal arguments that
we don't have market power in this market niche that
the FDC has defined that the FTC can't toss aside TikTok,
YouTube and x and other social network providers. Uh, and
(13:16):
that's gonna that's going to be a hard hurdle to
get over, So I give I give a I give
a modest advantage to to to Meta in handling the case,
But a lot of the FDC's evidence is going to
come right out of its files. We're going to have
senior executives on the stand giving us a really an
unprecedented look at how the company operates, and that's what
(13:36):
always makes trials risky and dangerous for defendants.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
We're just showing again Jennifer Neustad, Meta's chief legal officer's
argument over the weekend, which is exactly as you explain.
Look at the traffic and audience size of TikTok and
YouTube and their argument metas argument that they have a
less than thirty percent market share. Could we just go
back to where we started, which was the FTC chair
on Fox Business this morning. Ahead of the election of
President Trump, a lot of people looked at jd Vance
(14:03):
and his attitude towards big tech. It does seem in
the early stages that President Trump listens to jd Vance
about oversight of big tech in the antitrust context. What
do you make of that?
Speaker 7 (14:16):
I think he is listening and perhaps there's a predisposition
to listen and listen favorably, because notice the number of
occasions on which the President has suggested that were it
not for decisions made by Meta by Google in twenty twenty,
that he would have gained reelection. So I don't think
he's disposed in a general way to be fond of
(14:37):
these companies. And I think he has accepted many of
the arguments that the Vice president has offered to him,
So he has there are a lot of reasons for
which he might be very wary about taking a settlement
that would be good for Meta here. I suspect he'll listen,
but he's not ordinarily disposed to think that they are
a particularly good actor.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
William Cove Church of the George Washington University Law School,
and of course, former f TC chair himself, thank you.
Cryptocurrency platform Cracking is expanding beyond digital currencies by now
offering US equity and ETF trading. Joining US now Cracking
(15:22):
co CEO Argent Setti along with my mate Bloombau Shnali
Bassectionali take it away Rgin.
Speaker 8 (15:27):
Thanks for joining us. Of course, this is a big
move by kracking to get into traditional stocks, and my
question is how much is this a move to take
on Robinhood Coinbase in a much larger way in terms
of providing a one stop shop for clients.
Speaker 9 (15:44):
Yeah. So if you take a step back on the market,
I think a lot of people think of crypto and
traditional equities and traditional finance differently than we don't, which
is our core customer base is professional traders and they
exist all over the world very similarly in the way
in which they think, eat and trade, and so Coinbase
(16:06):
we think, and Robinhood in terms of prosumers and people
getting onboard and into crypto. And then you have you know,
other companies similar to Interactive Brokers that focus on professional
trading and day trading. So for us, our goal has
always been to be a leader in crypto assets, but
also be a leader in the way in which our
professional trading and customers and clients want to trade, may
(16:28):
that be long term or short term, and so this
is a this is a part of the path for
us to continue to do that. In addition, we you know,
we went to an agreement to acquire a company called
Ninja Trader that focuses on professional trading for retail derivatives.
So what you see us doing is just go across
(16:50):
a wider range of asset classes, including equities and commodities.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
What does it mean for you financially Because of course,
when you think about krack and, a lot of investors
are awaiting highly anticipated one day IPO, what can you
tell us about that path and how this helps.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
You get there?
Speaker 9 (17:06):
So, the most important thing for krack And is its clients,
and what our clients care about is transparency, security and
counterparty risk. And so as we continue to expand globally,
not just here in the United States, but Europe, UK, Canada,
Australia and now and to Asia, the thing that our
clients care about most is that counterparty risk and regulatory clarity,
(17:30):
and so what we're seeing is more regulatory clarity and
eventually market stability in the crypto ecosystem and so on.
Behalf of our clients will always want to be transparent
with our financials, what we're doing, proof of reserves, etc.
And if we do decide to go public, it'll be
a journey along the way.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Timing is everything. Oh, jenn, I found it so interesting
to see your release because if you think about the
business model right of Robinhood or a coinbase, they very
much focus on volatility. Volatility drives volumes and transaction. How
much is that a factor for you in this initiative.
Speaker 9 (18:06):
So it's look, if you're thinking about their clients, then
you are thinking about all the milestones along the way.
That is the most important. So, as I mentioned before,
being transparent with our financials, being transparent with our reserves
and their deposits, being transparent about what the products are,
making sure that our exchange is fair right, there's no rebates,
(18:28):
there's no discounts to the way in which all of
our customers and clients interact with our exchange. That's what's
most important. Volatility in the market is volatility in the market.
That's always going to be the case. I care more
about the slope and the long term growth for what
access to capital markets and debt markets give our customers
more than anything else.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Rogen elsewhere in your portfolio, Empire, you were an investor
in Xai and post Xai and x you know, there's
clearly a long term view to look at payments and
look at other financial service offerings that could you see
working with Linda and the team on something like that.
Speaker 9 (19:05):
Yeah, I think what's really important is where our clients
and customers are so today you can think of us
as trading, but you know there's also products for savings
in yield depending on the type of customer. And then
eventually you can think about payments, payments and remittances in
order to facilitate you know, peer to peer commerce or
(19:26):
business to peer commerce.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
So again, those will be journeys along the.
Speaker 9 (19:30):
Way, which is we've created the platform and the infrastructure
to be able to provide this, and we're already partnering.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
With folks to do that today.
Speaker 9 (19:36):
So almost you know, ten percent of our transactions today
are and through our experiences. It's through people connecting through
our API argent.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
One question I have as a former private investor in
so many ways, you're very familiar with the xaxai story,
but what about the potential for tokenization to make assets
like this more public? How quickly can you get there?
Speaker 9 (20:00):
Technologically we can get there tomorrow, It's more about regulatory clarity,
What is the legal and client relationship. How do you
think about which assets real world assets that we talk
about bringing on into crypto and making it programmable. So
what I'd say is that what we're doing now, given
that the future of training is pretty much borderless. It's
around the clock, it's twenty four to seven in crypto
(20:21):
rails has allowed that is that this lays the ground
with groundwork not just for myself but the other exchanges
worldwide to be able to provide equities and digitize them
to become more programmable. So tokenization of equities is a
term you hear a lot about. I think when you
think about global liquidity pools and global access to capital
and then demand for these assets no matter where they
(20:44):
might be in the US or Europe, I actually think
this lays a great groundwork for companies to start thinking
about how they should list who they should work with
and where those global equidity pools come from.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Cracking co CEO Argent SETI greats have you back on
the program and bloom Begstell's thank you for bringing it
up to us. Now coming up on the show, Electronics
expecting a temporary reprieve from tariffs, but President Trump says
there are more tariffs on the way. We'll have more
of that. Next. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. Ed Ludlow
(21:22):
Here in San Francisco Financial Markets, the story is technology
focus indexes really hitting session lows. Look at the NASDAK
one hundred or for example, the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index, a
temporary pause or reprieve from those high level tariffs on China,
making people think things might not be so bad for
the electronics sectors. However, there is a pledge, particularly in
(21:43):
the semis case, that a bucket of tariffs specific to
semiconductors is coming. We also look at Apple as a
case study. Right Apple has been so interesting to track
over the last six days based on how it's training
on these headlines. So it's the biggest points drivers to
the upside on the NASDAK one hundred right now. But
if they're is a specific bucket coming for electronics, there's
still the questions about what it will do. The administration
(22:05):
wants on shoring of manufacturing. Apple seems focused on shifting
more to India. Let's get back to our top story.
Companies like Apple and Nvidia appearing to score a major
win only for the White House, so then rain on
their parade. President Trump posting on true Socials saying quote,
there was no tariff exception which was announced on Friday.
These products are subject to the existing twenty percent fentanyl
(22:28):
tariffs and they are just moving to a different tariff bucket.
Bluemis KD Lions joins US from Washington, d C. I mean,
for me, the main learning of all of the last
few days is that actually the White House is starting
to think about how it defines semiconductors and defines electronics,
and something very specific is coming.
Speaker 10 (22:51):
Yeah, that's what the White House is saying. Well, the
President pushback on the idea that there's exemptions as being
fake news.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
Ed.
Speaker 10 (22:56):
I would note that the White House statement literally said
clarification of exemption which comply to hundreds of billion dollars
in consumer electronics that the US imports. But what the
President and others, including the Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik, are
arguing is that this does not mean this is a
free pass forever. This really is just about procedure. Yes,
these goods for now will not be subject to the
ten percent global baseline tariff or one hundred and twenty
(23:18):
five percent reciprocal tariff rate on all Chinese imports, but
they are still subject to that twenty percent fentanyl tariff
rate on everything that comes out of China, and they
will be subject to semiconductor teriffs that President Trump has
long been promising that just will be done. He refers
to in a different bucket under different authority, it would
be sectioned two thirty two. Realistically, that they're looking at
(23:38):
which factors in national security parts of the equation, and
the President on True Social over the weekend suggested it's
not just semi conductors, but the whole electronic supply chain
that they are looking at through this investigation. And while
he has been talking about this for some time, he
did indicate that this is coming sooner rather than later,
suggesting to reporters on Air Force one that he could
have a rate of the semicond doctor tariff announced within
(24:01):
the week and that the tariffs themselves will be applied
in the not so distant future. One thing I would
note here that does potentially provide a window of opportunity
or ability to maneuver for companies, if you will, like Apple,
is when the President was asked by a reporter yesterday
if there would be exemptions for things like iPhones, he
suggested that he can't be rigid with this, that there
has to be some degree of flexibility. It's just not
(24:24):
entirely clear how he's defining flexibility or where that so
called flexibility, might apply it inverse.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Katie Lines in Washington, d C. Thank you very much.
Let's broaden the conversation to include financial markets with city
Index senior around this. Fiona Cincota, Okay, you got into
your office this morning, you're at your desk, You looked
at the commentary from the president, and then you looked
at the documents from Friday night for exemptions. Where do
you think tariff policy stands for technology? Good morning?
Speaker 11 (24:56):
I would say about as clear as mud, to be honest.
You know, this just really highlighting the fact that there
doesn't seem to be really much clarity at all over
what the Trump administration is doing. Where we're at what
might come tomorrow, And this is just making it extremely
difficult for our clients to trade. It's making extremely difficult
(25:18):
for businesses to really have any level of planning still
over you know, where they should be moving manufacturing to,
from what rate, at what speed? When's this happening? I mean,
it just feels like the further we moved through these
tariff announcements, the more uncertainty there actually is over what's happening,
(25:38):
whether they'll be walked back, whether they'll be paused and
I think that's being reflected in the markets really quite
quite dramatically. Obviously, we saw those big swings across last week,
but even today, you know, we started off with the
futures considerably higher for the US tech stocks than what
they've opened at. Obviously we have seen some bound are
(26:00):
strong rebound in Apple, but I think, you know, given
the fact that that company has lost around a fig
of its value over the past few weeks, and the
rebound is still relatively smaller, and that again just highlights
that uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You know. This morning, in Video posted a blog explaining
that they're going to for the first time build their
AI supercomputer basically a server rack unit one in America.
And that's a plan that's happening largely in Texas over
the next four years. When you see a headline like that,
how much do you think it is a direct response
(26:36):
to the policy actions of this administration so far? Oh?
Speaker 11 (26:41):
Completely, I mean, I think this is absolutely a direct response.
I mean, this is what Trump's sort of aiming for.
And it's really interesting as well, because I mean it
is moving that manufacturing back to the US, which is
what Trump has you know, pledged for across his campaign.
And since taking and moving into the White House. What
(27:04):
I think is interesting here is what this will mean
for cost Obviously, I think it's you know, much more.
There are greater costs manufacturing in the US and perhaps
other parts of the world, or there were indeed before
these tariffs were being applied. So I mean, this is
what companies are doing in order to be able to
(27:24):
keep those costs down as much as possible, but it
will still result in an increasing costs. And I think,
you know, when this stuff come to consumer electronics particularly,
that's obviously when we're going to see that hitting the inflation,
We're going to see costs going up. But even with
these supercomputers, it's going to be affecting the costs involved.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So as of right this moment, and if you're a
technology investor, how do you play it? Do you stay
away from a name like Apple or others where there
is more of a direct read through for the pass
on of those costs at the consumer level?
Speaker 11 (28:01):
Yeah, you know, I think you know, tech obviously has
been very much under pressure since the Trump administration starts
denouncing these tariffs, and that's obviously because of the fact
that it's a growth stock.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I think there is.
Speaker 11 (28:15):
Much more potential looking towards value rather than growth right now.
So I think the tech sector is still quite a
difficult sector to be focusing in on given the level
of uncertainty. I think that still exists. Obviously there's uncertainty
across the board, but I think still more defensive areas
are going to be benefiting, such as healthcare industrials. Those
(28:38):
are areas that I would potentially be looking at rather
than the tech sector, which I think still could potentially
come under fire quite significantly from the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
City indexing, your analysts be honest and god, thank you
very much for your time on the show. Now, coming
up on Bluebog Technology, the first all female flight to
space has taken off board a Blue Origin rocket and
come safely back down to Earth. We'll have the details
of the launch and how it positions Jeff Bezos's rocket company.
That's coming up next. Also, take a look at some markets. Okay,
(29:10):
we know where it's session lows, particularly on tech specific
indices like NASDAQ one hundred. Interesting is the NASDAK Golden
Dragon China Index. That's a list essentially of the US
listed ADRs of Chinese technology companies and there is some
respite for those names as well that have swung with
a similar volatility to the rest of the tech sector.
(29:32):
We'll dig into why throughout the week. Stay with us,
We'll be right back. This has Blienberg Technology Q one.
Speaker 12 (29:58):
Less Lou Shepherd has cleared the tower.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
That was Blue Origins new Shepherd rocket taking off earlier
today with a star studded crew of six women, including
Lauren Sanchez, Jeff Bezos's Fionce, Gail King, and Katie Perry Bloomberg.
Sanna Pashankar is here to tell us more. And you know,
it was a notable sort of celebrity themed flight. What
happened and what's the big picture with this one? Sanna?
Speaker 13 (30:31):
Yeah, so it was an all female crew and that
was the first one since nineteen sixty three when a
female Soviet cosmonaut went to space herself. So it's really
the first all female crew with more than one member.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
And yeah, so they went up to space.
Speaker 13 (30:48):
I think they felt a lot of camaraderie among you know,
being all women and I think being all you know,
becoming astronauts for the first time. And so I think
it was you know, a really successful flight. Everything when
as planned, Everything went smoothly, and many of them mentioned
that it had really changed them coming back.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Interesting. Alright, Bloomberg, Saner Pashankar, Great to have you here
on Bloomberg Technology. Let's get more on why this flight
matters for the space industry. As an A Zuokoro, Senior
Fellow at the Harvard Belfa Center and former Assistant Director
for Space Policy at the White House, back with us
here on the show, I mean, there are a number
of ways that we can take this conversation right. The
(31:32):
way that I think about it is the data that
prior to today's mission. I think I'm right in saying
of all the people that have gone to space, only
fifteen one five percent were female. So what is the
significance from that standpoint?
Speaker 6 (31:45):
To you?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
As an a.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
This is greatly about American value creation and more innovation
from the space sector through the launch business. I think
that what we're seeing here is you're seeing glorigin menting
itself as a safe and dependent, dependable option to go
to space as a as a as an option for
(32:09):
space tourism. The fact that in eleven minutes you can
zoom past the Carmen line sixty two miles above sea
level in a fully reusable suborbital rocket that's built for
humans and come back safely. Is I think a big
American feet that we need to that we need to
(32:29):
highlight at the big question is what this means for
investors in space. Does this mean investors will move further
into the launch business and support additional flights. Does it
mean that we will see another one of bees in
another decade of being you know, making history again or
(32:50):
will this continue to become a commonplace.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I get asked a lot about the gap between Blue
Origin and space X, but the other perspective active of
the investors I speak to is that it's good to
have two private sector names that are able to have
a launch system that's reusable and that are launching with
greater cadence. How important, though, is it that Blue Origin
(33:14):
starts to make progress in its other domains outside a
New Shepherd. I'm talking about New Glen and also its
engine business.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
And you know there are also in the space station
business as well. There's right busy companies. So I think
that it's important that they are able to show successes
because in the space business as safe successes or all
that matters it's important to show these results in all
your businesses, and right now they are doing that, and
(33:43):
that builds well for the investment community that's watching what
this does to grow the space asset class.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Those that are skeptical look at this and say, this
is a shop window for Jeff Bezos and Blue in
the sense that it's an all celebrity, well mostly celebrity crew,
and that to everyday people, this just isn't achievable. That
you know, it's one hundred and fifty thousand dollars for
the deposit. We don't know how much a ticket costs,
because it depends on your relationship with Bezos. What's the
(34:11):
counter argument, what's the argument on how this progresses and
advances people's everyday opportunity to go to space. Yeah, the counter.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
Argument is threefold. Actually. The first is it helps the
engineers with continuous repetition, which means that again they are
doing this safely, and they are they become more used
to doing it, so the engines and the systems perform
better or it becomes more commonplace technically. The second is
(34:42):
that when you think about the advent of air travel,
you know it wasn't affordable to everyone and so with
these repetitions, we hope that the intention is it helps
to bring down the costs so that you have more
people able to live space. And then thirdly, I think
(35:03):
that what this does, and you alluded to this a
bit with the two options, is it inspires others to
start more rocket companies in America. It inspires others to
see this as something that is, you know, something we
do every day and not once in a decade.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
As an a lean on your experience in office, how
do you think the White House and the pending NASSA
administrator would view blues mission this morning?
Speaker 4 (35:34):
I believe that pending ASCID administrator also was on a
similar flights. So one can't help but be excited that
this is continuing, that there are more people given access
to space. And I think that from the White House lens,
when you see an American company continue to foster the
(35:59):
innovation that we want to see are coming from American ingenuity,
but that's a plus. And then thirdly, I think from
the lens of NASA and even at the White House too,
you want to see American prominent American leadership, and that's
what you're seeing here.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Jeff Bezos has a very similar big picture view of
the future of space, like Elon Musk wants humankind to
be multiplanetary species. I think Jeff Bezos talks about living
and working in space. And you reference the future business
model that Blue has of the future of international space stations,
not the International Space Station, but with your experience, do
(36:41):
you have line of sight to that future from a
test a launched like such we had today.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Absolutely. The International Space Station is set to retire in
about six years, so by twenty thirty we expect that
to start being retired. And there are a number of
launch companies, a number of space companies, including a Origin,
that are working to replace this station. And we're not
(37:12):
going to see one station because the International Space Station
is quite large and it's built over a decade, so
you're going to see multiple options. You might have one
for pharmaceuticals. You might have a space station for scientific research,
and another for space tourism, a space hotel, if you will.
So what you see is the Again, this repetition of
flying gives a lot of It adds a lot of
(37:36):
experience and expertise to the teams that are building what
could be a future space station hotel.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
As an a. It was a acor from the Harvard
Belfa Center. It's great to have you back on the program. Okay.
A new story from this morning. Intel will sell a
fifty one in its programmable chips unit al Terra, to
(38:03):
silver Lake Management for eight point seventy five billion dollars.
Is it spins off its non central businesses. The deals
expected to close in the second half of twenty twenty five.
Intel bort Alterra ten years ago for seventeen billion dollars.
It's all part of new Intel CEO Lip Bhutan's strategy
to divest from non core assets. Okay. Another chip name
(38:24):
in Video is working to mass produce AI supercomputers that
are built entirely in the US by late twenty twenty six.
It's ramping up development of two manufacturing plants in Texas
and says it will produce a half a trillion dollars
worth of AI infrastructure in the United States over the
next four years. Bluemost brody Ford joins me with some
(38:47):
more details. I think it's really important to be honest
with the audience about this story because it's it's been
a multi week thing with in VideA. What do they
mean by produce half a trillion dollars worth of AI infrastructure, Brody,
And what we're talking about, I think is assembling this
system that they called accelerated computing, not just the fabrication
(39:08):
of key chips. That's a very important point.
Speaker 12 (39:11):
Yeah, I mean, electronics, more than any other good really
come a bit from everywhere. Right, you buy a component
from Vietnam, from China and in videos case, I'm not certain,
but it's coming from all over the world, and likely
what we're speaking about here is some of that kind
of later stage manufacturing assembly. In Vidia isn't one hundred
percent clear in this, but what we know is that
(39:31):
in recent weeks, in recent months, there's been a lot
of pressure for large companies, large tech companies to speak
about how we are investing in the US. If tariffs come,
supply chain disruptions come, we are ready. And so that's
kind of what in Vidia's messaging today that they are
ramping up their production in the US. They will have
capacity here and they will make up to five hundred
(39:54):
billion worth of goods here in the US just very quick.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
In Texas. Who the manufacturing partners, Yeah.
Speaker 12 (40:01):
They're pairing up with Fox khn Han how they're in Texas,
and so I mean essentially they are. You know, it's
kind of a who's who of the companies that are
doing manufacturing for Arizona. It's going to be TSMC and
their big Phoenix campus. Phoenix Campus we've heard a lot about.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Right, Bloomberg's Brady Ford out of New York City really
appreciate it. That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.
And what a start of the week it's been, particularly
in the markets reaction. A lot of you are listening
to us as a podcast, so you know exactly where
you can find it on the Bloomberg terminal as well
as online on Apple, Spotify, and on iHeart. A lot
more to come throughout the week, particularly when it comes
(40:40):
to technology stocks. From San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology
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