October 8, 2024 • 35 mins
This week was supposed to be all about Thursday’s big Tesla unveiling—but Elon Musk jumped (literally) on stage with his new best friend, Donald Trump, prompting all sorts of memes in a week when he may have revealed his real motivation for backing a convicted felon for president. On this episode of Elon, Inc., we preview what people can expect in a Robotaxi with Dana, Max and Bloomberg editor Craig Trudell, and dig into Musk’s rebirth as a Republican megadonor with a special guest—journalist Jacob Silverman, who is working on a book about tech’s move to the right.
And there’s BINGO! We have made Robotaxi bingo cards for people following along at home, with words we think Musk will say during the event. Go to https://www.bloomberg.com/eloninc for some of the cards to print out.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
More than half the satellites in space are owned and
controlled by one man.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, he's a legitimate super genius.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I mean legitimate.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
He says. He's always voted for Democrats, but this year
it will be different.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
He'll vote Republican.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
There is a reason the US government is so reliant
on him.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Speaker 6 (00:36):
Anything he does, he's fascinating people.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Welcome Delon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday,
October eighth. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. The moment we've
been waiting for is almost he here, the grand unveiling
of Elon's Robotaxi, the self driving droid card that is
supposed to push Tesla far into the future and make it,
according to Elon, a multi trillion dollar company. Now, a
(01:13):
launch like this would normally dominate the show, perhaps it'd
be the only thing we talk about. But over the weekend,
Elon jumped and jumped and jumped onto stage with Donald
Trump lashing himself ever more tightly to the Trump train
as the election approaches, and so we just gotta get
into that. And to help us, we're going to bring
(01:33):
in a special guest, Jacob Silverman, an independent journalist who
covers the tech industry. But we will start with that
Robotaxi launch to talk about what we can expect from
the big event Thursday night. We have our regulars, Dana
Hall and Max Chafkin.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Hey there, Hey, hey, good to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Hi David, and we also are beaming in from London
our Global Autos editor, a very busy man, Craig Trudell. Craig,
how you doing Robotaxi week? Happyt rowboat Taxi week to you, sir? Okay, So, Craig,
we are just a couple of days away. I can
sense the excitement in your voice. By the way, all
(02:12):
the way across the pond, I can just feel it.
No jumping around though in the studio over there, our
studio can't take that. What do we know? Remind us,
what do we know so far about this robotaxi the
cyber cab as Elon calls it, and what's he been
promising and what are the general expectations for it?
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Well? I think about you know, this time of year,
everyone talks about you know, debates and playing the quote
unquote expectations game, right where you try to you know,
under promise and then over deliver.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Right.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
I think Governor Walls his people were talking about he's
not such a great debater, He's very nervous. Elon isn't
playing that game. He is posting on x about this
being you know, one for the history books and agreeing
with one of his super fans that you know, this
is going to be the most significant moment for Tesla
since the unveiling of the Model three that was a
(03:02):
super important moment in the history of Tesla's So you know,
he is is you know, setting expectations awfully high here.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
He's in full, full on hype mode.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
He's in hype mode, he's in in salesmanship mode. And
you know, honestly, you guys have been talking about on
the podcast about the idea that it's been quite effective, right,
It's been driving the stock price up for months now,
and so you know, the the expectations going into this event,
I would say are hugely elevated. There are some analysts
maybe who are starting to come out with notes to
(03:33):
kind of you know, maybe maybe temper things a bit
so that they can sort of, you know, declare what
a what a surprise everything was. But I think you know,
you look at what Elon has been saying and hosting.
It's been anything but you know, lowering expectations.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Now, Dana remind us he's been promising the Robotaxi the
cyber Cap. I don't know, by the way, when he
changed from Robotaxi to cybercap, but he's been promising it
for a long time. When we're according to his initial
predictions way back when where we going to get the
cyber cap.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I mean, he made a big pitch to Wall Street
investors that twenty twenty was going to be the year
of the Robotaxi. Here it is, you know, late twenty
twenty four, and we're gonna have this unveiling Thursday night.
But I just wanted to make sure that everyone understands
that it's not just the Romotaxi event. People, it's called
we robot And so I predict that we're going to
see a Robotaxi, we're going to hear about the fleet,
(04:23):
We're going to see optimists do something like they are.
This is like sort of beyond just the robotaxi. They're
they're really pitching this is like the big event that's
gonna kind of explain to, you know, the plebes, why
Tesla has this huge advantage. And there it's there. They're
calling the event our official unveiling of the future of autonomy.
(04:44):
So it goes beyond just this robotaxi. It's like it's
much it's much bigger in their minds.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
So they're going to flex max all their technological prowess,
the technical prowess that the market says makes the company
infinitely more valuable than it's all old school peers. And
I guess we'll see.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Can you unveil the future?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I don't think you can.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And I think that that language, you know right there,
kind of hints at one of the problems. This is
not a product launch because there is no product, like
they can say that they are launching a cyber cab.
But there's a reason this event is being held on
a Hollywood sound stage, and I'm sure it's going to
be very impressive. I'm sure we're going to see something
that looks very much like a taxi driving around streets
(05:27):
that look very much like streets, but of course you
can't just do this in the real world because in
the real world it is not legal. And leave aside
the questions about whether Tesla can come anywhere to achieving
this on it from a technological basis, which I think
are big questions. You know, we tend to like think
about the really successful Elon Musk launches, the Model three launch.
(05:48):
Dana brought up the cyber truck launch also, I think
a very successful launch, notwithstanding.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
The broken glass.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
But of course there have been times when things have disappointed,
and in particular around autonomy.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, now, Max, let me through for a second, because
we have curated over the years some Musk highlights from
some of these events. Let's listen to them now.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
The car can do almost anything. You can pick your
favorite color, and it looks like a beautiful sculpture on
the wall. We expect to have the first operating robotaxis
next year. The goal is to make have electric you know,
solar roofs that look better than normal roof The new
Tesla Roadster will be the fastest car production car ever
(06:30):
made period.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Man. Listen to that stuff makes me want to jump
around here now. But Craig, so you've gone back and
look through.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Well, first of all, I think you were there for
many of them, for many of these events, and you
recall some of the greatest hits and the biggest crash
and burns. Like, what do you typically get concretely out
of these events and how does the market tend to
react to them?
Speaker 6 (06:58):
I mean, musk. You can say what you will about
his political leanings of late or his you know, sense
of humor. Sometime it can be you know, everyone's cup
of tea. But he is a showman. I think you
guys have talked about this on the podcast in the past.
Well boast about, you know, being able to deliver a
car in you know, rapid fashion did so with the
(07:18):
Model X and twenty twelve that that launched a couple
of years late, the Model three handover in twenty seventeen.
I just remember him talking about, you know, warning of production. Hell,
I guess he was. He was right there. But I
think he both is able to hype up the product
that he is springing to market and also, you know,
(07:39):
really get people excited about what's coming.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Right.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
I think back to twenty seventeen, when you know, toward
the end of the year they were showing the Semi
and surprise everybody by showing the next generation roadster that
was their first vehicle ever. He said on stage, you know,
people have asked us for a long time, when are
you going to make a new roadster. We are making
it now. He's still not making that roadster. He's not
(08:03):
even really making that Semi either, that that is in
pilot production. So he will make a lot of big pronouncements,
big statements, big predictions. I mentioned his sense of humor.
I do want to give him credit that he has
said that Tesla specializes in making the impossible merely late.
I think that's a pretty good line.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I just want to note that, like you know, I mean,
I think for the stock, there's a question of if
do people like sell on the news because the news
could be like less hypey than when then what people
are anticipating. But like if you actually go to the event,
people are super into it. Like these diehard fans, they
are flying in from all over the country. They're begging
for plus ones. Like to be clear, Tesla's inviting Wall
(08:43):
Street analysts, big investors, and they're like chosen influencers plus
some randos to like go to this thing. So all
the influencers who are part of the like Musk single
phantic echo chamber are all going to be there and
to be in the room with this guy who some
people think is like the i'mas Edison of our time,
like it is, it is enthralling for people. They are like,
(09:04):
oh my god, Like I got to see Elon Musk
in person, and that's like what they live for.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
And it's a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Like a tent revival situation where just being in the
same room with him and hearing him and being able
to scream his name, it's like very religious almost, And
I don't think you can sort of negate that. Like
when the Model three was unveiled, Like I was there
when he did that along with you know, like Mary Nichols,
the head of the California Air Resources Board, and like
there was electricity in the room because people really felt
(09:31):
like you were seeing the needle move. And I can
imagine that they will there will be a similar vibe,
you know, at this AI event, except Elon. I don't
get the sense that Elon is like preparing for his
you know, preparing for his remarks that much. I mean,
he's like on the campaign trail with Donald Trump, Right, so,
like in terms of showmanship, like, I don't think he's
(09:53):
like practice his pattern, Like I don't think the sense
that he's like hunkered down doing like product launch prep
way that most CEOs do. And so if he just
sort of like rolls in late and is off the
cuff and like shambles around and makes some jokes about
how the future is autonomy, like I don't. I don't
think Wall Street's gonna be super keen on that.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
One thing we haven't mentioned yet is that this event
is at seven pm Pacific time, so that's ten pm
Eastern time.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
This is a late event, and that.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
This is how Elon Musk likes it, right, he likes
these things as Danna and Craig are hinting as to
feel like parties.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
But it isn't.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's unlikely to me that this is going to have
a big media impact even no matter what he does,
because of how they've decided to kind of do the
theater of it. And I've been sitting here trying to
think about, well, what could Elon announce that would be perceived?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
What does a positive what does success at the event
look like?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So I think, okay, success would look like awesome design.
Does does does this thing somehow just blow you away?
That would be one thing Number two, and this is
more important, some sort of indication that they have a
deal in place with some municipality anywhere in the world
to deploy this thing in any kind of time front
frame that is like soon ish, you know, Like but
(11:15):
if we end this with just like here's a cool product,
but it doesn't there's no plan for deployment, I think
the reaction is going to be poor because I think
Elon has done so much to make it seem like
this is happening like right now that if the truth
is it's happening three four, five, six years from now,
that's going to be processed as a big disappointment.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Craig first, and then Dana the same question to you,
What does success look like for you?
Speaker 6 (11:40):
Craig, Yeah, I mean I would agree with Max. I
think hard and fast plans for deployment to me is
a must. And I think that's where this gets really tricky,
right because we've heard him literally year after year say
that you know, his robotaxis are just around the corner,
and even you know, as Dani alluded to earlier, back
in twenty nineteen, he was telling everybody that their Tesla,
(12:02):
the Tesla that you know was in their driveway, that
they had already bought, was on the verge of being
a Robotaxi. We know that there is no Tesla robotaxi
on the road. What is going to be shown in
La Thursday night is going to be, you know, prototypes.
I do think that, you know, Dana, you know, scooped
a few months back that you know, this event after
(12:23):
all got delayed because he wanted to make a design change.
I think that speaks to this idea that this thing
is not baked, and you know, I think the question
will be, does this guy end up having any credibility
with Wall Street when you know, in twenty nineteen, as
Dana alluded to, he said, you know, we expect to
have the first operating robotaxis next year, and then has
proceeded to predict that over and over again at nauseum.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I don't know if he's got credibility with Wall Street
or Wall Street analysts per se, but clearly, judging from
the reaction in the stock market of the last few
months when he made his grand pivot to the Robotaxi.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
I e.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
The stock has popped fifty percent. I guess he seems
to have still that credit in the bank with the
broader investor base out there, Dana, what does success looklick
for you?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Well, he has to give people rides. I mean, he
can't just like stand on the stage and like pull
the sheet off of this you know, two seat robotaxi
like people. He actually has to give investors like rides.
They have to be able to and I think they're
gonna have to show like the app, the Tesla app,
and people are gonna have to like experience hailing it
and then like riding around in it. I mean that said,
(13:27):
you know, they are doing this on this kind of
closed course, and there's a lot of questions about whether
they pre mapped the route or whatever.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
But you have to have.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
People actually experience it. Because Tesla's try to sort of
do two things at once. They have sold current tesl
owners on the idea that eventually, with the flip of
a switch, your car will be self driving. And then
simultaneously they are now unveiling dedicated, purpose built robotaxi that
Tesla's gonna run itself. And you know, the whole idea
(13:56):
is that it's gonna be this combination of Uber and Airbnb,
where like you can drive your car yourself, or like
if you're on vacation or asleep, you can like lend
your car to this Tesla fleet and it'll make money
for you when you're not around. And so they kind
of have to differentiate and explain to people how this
is actually gonna work. But I think that it's not
a success unless, like the big investors actually get to
(14:19):
ride in this thing.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Just to note a caution, getting a ride in a
quote unquote robotaxi on a closed course at a demo
is not anywhere near the same thing as a robotaxi
being deployed in public. So, like, I think Dan is
right if they give If they don't give anyone rides,
that that will be a disappointment. But even if they
do give rides, everyone needs to watch that with a
(14:40):
you know, with a big granult.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Google has been.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Doing this for like fifteen years. Other companies, me and
Craig and Dana, we've all sat through demos on real
roads with robotaxis before. Like this has been going on
for a very long time. It is not novel to
be able to have a robotaxi demo on a close
of course, even though I am sure so certain that
Elon Musk will make it seem novel when he announces
(15:05):
it on the teenth.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Wait, the point is that Tesla does not have a
permit from the California Department of Motor Vehicles to deploy
any kind of robotaxi on public roads in California, full stop.
Like they do not have a pump permit. So the
only way that they can demonstrate this is to do
it on private land at the discretion of the owner.
And they're doing it at the Warner Brothers studio in Burbank.
(15:26):
And there's a lot of reasons for that. I mean,
Musk has done demos at Hollywood studios before. He like
famously unveiled the solar roof on like the set of
you know, Hollywood, what was it called, Desperate Housewives. So
that just the fact that it's happening on private you know,
on a private lot where you know they can control
the variables of what is in the built environment, is
(15:49):
really telling.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Now, Craig, this big event is late here East Coast time.
It's either super late London time or super early, depending
on the way you look at it. Three in the morning,
I'm guessing you're setting your alarm for two fifty five.
You're gonna pound a couple cups of espresso, and then, Craig,
you shall play Tesla cyber car cyber what what is
(16:15):
this thing again? To cyber cab launch bingo? Are you
not gonna play bingo? And to play bingo? Craig Dana
seems to have a card ready for us well.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So to back up for a bit. Listeners of the
you know, regular listeners of the pod know that we
often make an earnings call bingo, and this time around,
instead of earnings called bingo, we're doing Robotaxi edition Bingo.
And you know, like Musk uses a lot of stock
phrases over and over again. So we've got the big
O card and you'll be able to download it at
(16:48):
some point. But I bet Craig and Max and David
you can probably guess some of the words.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Come on, I'm Max, Tesla is an AI company.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I think you say that. There we go, Craig, what
here is this square?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
There is a square called that that very simply just
says AI.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
I got a feature complete March of the nines.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Oh those are good. Gosh, they're not on the card though.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:12):
Regulatory approval, We do have regulators. Regulators.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, not not optimistic en up for approval.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
We have some other phrases are scalable, cost per mile,
compute bus ticket end to end. We also have horse max.
You want to explain the why why horse often comes
up on our Bingo cards?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Do you remember the bastery like Elon?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
There have been a few horse related incidents, I believe,
But I think what this refers to is the fact
that Elon has said that buying a car without this
technology would be like buying a horse.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
Can I throw one one other animal one other animal
related card? How about boy boy who cried FSD instead
of boy who cried wolf? Because Elon has called himself
the boy who cried full self driving and was wrong.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
This is why you're not part of the committee that
creates the Bingo card. You're demanding squares that are just
too hard. No one's gonna get Bingo America and the
world more broadly, they want to get Bingo. They want
to say Bingo. All right, listen, this is what we're
gonna do. First thing Friday morning, Craig, we're gonna have
you back on. You're gonna give us your impressions of
(18:27):
the grand unveiling of the cyber Cab, and perhaps we'll
hear a little bit from Max and Dan as well.
So Craig, we say goodbye to you, sir, Thank you
for joining us, Thanks for having me. Okay, now, the
cyber Cab launch should have been the biggest news story
of the week for Elon. But then then Elon showed
(18:48):
up with Trump and Butler Pennsylvania and it got a
little wacky. Let's actually listen to the tape when Trump
introduces him on stage. His name is Elon Musk. Saved
free speech. He created so many different great things. Where
is he? Come on up here, ey lot.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
He created the first major American car company, and generations
in his rocket company is the only reason we can
now send American astronauts into space.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Come here, take overy, Lot, Yes, take over.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Hi everyone.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
As you can see, I'm not just Maga, I'm dark
Mega Jacob.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Welcome to the show. We appreciate having you on. You
are an independent journalist and currently writing a book about
the tech industry and right wing politics for Bloomsberry, which
is all perfect for this segment. Did you watch this
either live or subsequently Jacob on Saturday?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Yes, I did. I caught it later. I wasn't able
to watch it live.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
And your thought as you are watching this scene, well.
Speaker 7 (20:04):
Of course, I think the screenshotted images, the still images
of Musk flying the air and awkwardly with minimal vertical
leap and his belly showing might be the one that
lingers most. Or maybe him leaning forward kind of leering
at Trump with this sinister handshake. I think those are
(20:24):
the things that a lot of people will take away
rather than anything that he said. I mean, he later said,
I believe on Tucker Carlson that he claimed to have
improvised most of that, and perhaps it showed. The biggest
takeaway for me is just the scene and the setting
that this is a fairly big event for Trump. He's
coming back to the horrifying event for him of the
tempted assassination, and right there next to him is the
(20:46):
richest man in the world, who just a few months
ago was a little bit restrained in his support, at
least not totally open and opening the floodgates of money.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, now, Max, why the jumping well, the jumping that
I cannot answer, and like Jacob is saying, the memes
have been fierce around, like these gestures and the jump
and everything. My reaction here was just like, wow, he
is all in. You know, this is a guy who
is you know, really putting everything, his entire identity and
(21:20):
a lot of his money behind this very very polarizing
reelection effort.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, and Dana, I will admit I didn't watch it.
It was Saturday afternoon. I was busy gambling, so you
will forgive me, but you know I did in catching
up afterwards, I had this sort of the same thought.
I believe there is a moment or two in the book,
in the Walter Isaacson biography of Musk, in which you know,
(21:45):
there's either Musk says it directly or Isaacson very much
gets the sense that at some point periodically I just
say fit and I just put ey. Musk just put
all my chips in the table and it was gonna
let it ride. Kind of seems what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, I mean I think that. Okay, So it's one
thing to start a pack to support President Trump. It's
another thing to sort of publicly endorse Trump. And then
it's like a third thing to like campaign with him.
I mean, no other CEO does that because you know,
people like hedge their bets and they don't want to
be on the wrong side if your side loses. But
(22:20):
I think that Elon Musk has made the calculation that
this is a very close race. He's already poured millions
of dollars into this campaign. He's now very focused on
Pennsylvania as a UPenn graduate, you know, he's like, I
know the state. He's like campaigning with Trump. He's gonna
do more events with Trump. And I think for him,
it's like he wants his you know, he wants his
guy to win, and he somehow thinks that he is
(22:42):
value add But I think what was most disturbing to
me was this whole dark Maga thing. I mean, it's
like a dark vision of the future, and Musk is
becoming very dark, like saying, if you don't if Trump
doesn't win, this will be the last election that we
ever have. I think that it just really solidifies Musk's
reputation going forward, like people will people will will not
(23:03):
remember him as the guy who was trying to help
solve the climate crisis with electric cars. They will remember
him as the guy as the richest person in the
world who threw in all of his chits with Trump
and still on stage with him wearing like a dark maga.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah, and to that point, he actually I've now seen
appears in ads for Kamala Harris as someone that they
wanted very much linked to Trump. Jacob Dana mentioned just
now how unusual it is for a business executive of
his rank to campaign with the presidential candidate. And I
(23:40):
actually checked in with our DC crew and they don't
have any recollection of having seen it in recent history.
I suspect it's a fairly risky gambit, is it not.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I think so.
Speaker 7 (23:51):
I think, you know, there is some precedent here. Even
at that event. One thing I did notice was that
I believe John Paulson, the Hedge funder, warmed up the
crowd or spoke briefly.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
That must have been That must have been a barn
burner of a speech.
Speaker 7 (24:07):
Yeah, I think there's a reason why it hasn't been
circulating on social media. But you know that that is
representative sort of the plutocracy that is part and parcel
of Trump and the backdrop behind him. But on the
other hand, You're exactly right. There there's been no one
of this media ubiquity, of this level of power and
wealth and influence, and must seems to understand, or at
(24:29):
least it has been joking about with Tucker Carlson that
there is some risk here. He's a major government contractor.
This has been brought up by numerous people, including Tucker Carlson,
and there are I think questions about some of the
donations and any campaign finance issues here, or even the
data collection that's been conducted by America Pack that's being investigated,
(24:51):
I believe by some state election officials. So there are
all kinds of potential exposure for someone like him.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
We actually have that clip right now. Let's let's listen
to it.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Loses, man, what You're fucked dude.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
If it does.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I mean, you know, I think he's joking, but also
not joking, right, I mean, there are a swirl of
federal investigations, and I think these comments do speak to
the fact that he's bought in. Jacob mentioned a couple
of things that also happened alongside this appearance, one of
which was the Carlson interview. The other is that Elon
(25:31):
announced this kind of big pushed collect names for a
mailing list. He's going to pay forty seven dollars per
person per registered voter in a swing state that you
refer and this is significant. People have asked sort of
questions about, well, what you know, does this potentially violate
you know, election laws and stuff. I seriously doubt it does.
But I think what it does signal to me is
(25:54):
that Elon Musk has ambitions to be a political player,
maybe in the long term. I mean, you know, one
one of the things that one of the things about
showing up at this thing, at a Trump event is
there's sort of no going back from it, right, It's
going to be very difficult for Elon Musk to sort
of like departisan himself if this.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Were sort of a more run of the mill John
McCain kind of you know candidate perhaps, But if someone
of this il Donald Trump and the polarizing effect he
has in the place, yeah, we've seen it happen.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
But like the combination of showing up at the events,
putting all this money, but the fact that he's spending
potentially a substantial amount of money building this mailing list.
So if you do the math, forty seven. He's saying
he wants a million names times forty seven dollars. That's
forty seven million dollars buying a forty seven million dollar
email list. Obviously, that would be useful to the Trump
(26:45):
campaign to potentially turn out voters. It could be an
asset going forward, right like having a massive mailing list
of Trump aligned registered voters in swing states would give
Elon potentially be a power worker going forward, no matter
who wins or loses this life.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
All right, we're gonna move on to the main topic.
You know, Jacob again, way back when when we first
thought we'd have you on, we were gonna have you
on just to talk about X and how you managed
very impressively to get a judge to unseal the names
(27:22):
of all the investors who bought the company alongside Elon.
Tell us what you found.
Speaker 7 (27:29):
Sure, So, thanks to the help of our CFP or
Reporters Committee for the Freedom of the Press, I filed
a motion to intervene in one of the many lawsuits
that Elon, Musk and X are facing since the acquisition.
And in one of these lawsuits this is related to
employment issues and basically people suing the company who were
(27:50):
let go. They had to file a list of shareholders
X did, and they chose to do.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
So under sealed. They want to keep it secret.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
Now, these kinds of things happen all the time, and
so do with these kinds of emotions to intervene. But
this was something that I had been looking for and
wondering about, was who was actually the money behind must
taken over the company. We had some sense there were
SEC filings and public statements that gave us some idea,
but nothing with the sort of force of illegal filing
(28:22):
like this, and it actually worked rather quickly, within about
a month or the summer, a judge ruled in our favor.
You know, I think there are some surprises there, and
I think it gives a good sense of who Musk
is turning to for money. And also the difference is
actually between what he says to some people and in
both in public and private, and then actually how this
(28:44):
played out.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
And the list is pretty wild, because I remember when
it came out, we were all like, I was like,
oh my god, like Jacob.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Got the list.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I mean, but it's like this rogues gallery of like
foreign money, but then like Fidelity, and but then like
Sean Comb so Jacob jan maybe like run through the
highlights of like who who actually the investors are sure?
Speaker 7 (29:05):
I mean, and some of these were mentioned in passing before,
like Shawn Combs, the you know recently indicted P Diddy
is definitely on there. We don't necessarily know for what amount,
but he has a company called Shawn Combs Capital, which
is maybe a reminder that so many of these celebrities
are now investors there are you know. One thing that
(29:25):
I really noticed was the difference between those texts that
were released as part of the Delaware court proceedings that
kind of convinced must to go through with the proceedings.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
I think.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
But in those texts he was telling David Sachs said
he was in, but he's not on the actual list.
Unless there are a few companies that can't identify their owners.
Maybe one of those is his. Some other close Musk
associates aren't on there. In the text he Musk was
constantly telling people that the deal was oversubscribed. You know,
Larry Elson would say, oh, I'm in for two billion
(29:58):
if you want. But then we you know he was in,
but it doesn't seem to be oversubscribed because he has
people like this guy Andrea Stroppa, who's kind of a
semi obscure Italian cybersecurity researcher and just seems like a
guy must talks to on X. That's sort of this
category that I called the inexplicably rich. And then there
(30:21):
are also companies like Fidelity, which is a huge financial
firm invested in more than two dozen funds. But then
also you have kind of lower tier financial firms, I
would say, you know, and also even venture capitalists who
you know, through no fault of their own, but typically
do smaller deals like less than five hundred thousand dollars.
(30:42):
You just wouldn't expect that kind of more obscure, smaller
money to be part of this, especially when Musk was
telling his billionaire friends, hey, this is oversubscribed, but all.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
So obviously he was having to work a lot harder
to stump to get people to put up the cash,
and he was intimating now they're also there was a
list of a few prominent or at least one prominent
Saudi name.
Speaker 7 (31:07):
One of the largest or the largest outside shareholder of
Twitter when it was a public company was a Prince
al Willi bin Tallal from Saudi Arabia. He's listed three
separate times in the official ownership list as Kingdom Holding
Company and then under his own name, Prince Ali bin Tallal.
(31:27):
The important thing there, I think is one he was
always close, of course to the Saudi regime. But a
few years ago MBS, the notoriously violent Crown Prince of
Saudi Arabia, imprisoned a few hundred notables, including this prince,
and had a lot of them tortured and forced to
turn over their assets. This was part of what was
(31:48):
called an anti corruption purge. So I think that kind
of relationship with an authoritarian nation state is a big
part of the X story right now.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
People should read the piece that Jacob wrote about this
in The Baffler because it's really funny. It's got a
lot of jokes and kind of like Dana kind of
hinted as breaks these people into categories, and but when
you take it into totality, I mean, it's just it
is like a weird collection of supporters and enablers which
we have known about, but which kind of encompasses a
(32:19):
lot of sketch, a lot of foreign money, a lot
of people who we don't quite know where their money comes.
From Binance, which you know was founder was pled guilty
and just got out of prison, is a major investor,
and fine, you know, that's kind of how capitalism works.
But like, this is a company that is playing a
very significant political role. It's not just a like, you know,
(32:43):
social media site. It's it's a major way that like,
especially people on the writer are consuming their news. And
like we've had these discussions so many times over the
last ten years or so that it's almost like trite
or cliched to bring it up, but like it definitely
seems like a lot of people you wouldn't necess necessarily
want to have like super close to to like election
(33:05):
advertising or or messaging about voting, or telling people that
the vote is rigged, as we're seeing over and over
again on X, So like its just something to keep
an eye on.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I think, you know, this is probably not.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
The right place to say this, but this whole story
about Elon and politics, the thing that I've found most
amusing and fun is that Politico reported that that Elon
is planning on doing more events with Trump, having even
more political engagement Trump, and it mentioned that he went
to a Steelers game over the weekend.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
That that big to be clear that I did walk
he's a big football fan.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
He was waiving a I think it's terrible, but this
political story sourced to I don't even know who with
some some somebody familiar or whatever, said that he's also
a fan of the Philadelphia Eagles, So he's he's for
all the teams he's going to. He's going to be
extremely relatable to Pennsylvanians over the next a month.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Late, I've been joking around like, so we can we
confirm that Musk is gonna do more events? And I've
been joking around like what is the what is the
next campaign event? Is Musk gonna go to a sheets
or a wah wah, Like, is he gonna yeens around
and like drink rolling rock beer? Like what is the
penaltimate like Pennsylvania campaign event to do?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
He's gonna go to the old vet the link that
he's gonna watch the Eagles hilariously.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
It seemed like the chief point of evidence here is
that he attended the Super Bowl game featuring the Eagles
in Rupert Murdoch's owner's box like all great Eagles fans.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Of course, he has been in the owner's box with
all all I'll say this is having known now, knowing
that he was at the game and having bet and
lost on the Steelers, I needed him to waive that
towel and shout and holler a little bit more loudly
to get the Steelers home. Listen, Jacob, We're gonna wrap
it up there. When your book is out, sir, please
(34:50):
let us know and we will absolutely have you back on.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
That'd be great And thanks for this. It was fun.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Max Dana thinks as well as always grease to be here.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Of course, nice, don't you, Jacob.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and
Rayhan harmanci Are are senior editors. The idea for this very
show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, and
Dave Purcell fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson.
The Elaning theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa
and Alex sugi Ura. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer,
(35:32):
and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A
big thanks as always to our supporter Joel Weber. I'm
David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, rate and review
our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you
next time.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
More than half the satellites in space are owned and
controlled by one man.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, he's a legitimate super genius.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I mean legitimate.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
He says. He's always voted for Democrats, but this year
it will be different.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
He'll vote Republican.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
There is a reason the US government is so reliant
on him.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.
Speaker 6 (00:36):
Anything he does, he's fascinating people.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Welcome Delon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday,
October eighth. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. The moment we've
been waiting for is almost he here, the grand unveiling
of Elon's Robotaxi, the self driving droid card that is
supposed to push Tesla far into the future and make it,
according to Elon, a multi trillion dollar company. Now, a
(01:13):
launch like this would normally dominate the show, perhaps it'd
be the only thing we talk about. But over the weekend,
Elon jumped and jumped and jumped onto stage with Donald
Trump lashing himself ever more tightly to the Trump train
as the election approaches, and so we just gotta get
into that. And to help us, we're going to bring
(01:33):
in a special guest, Jacob Silverman, an independent journalist who
covers the tech industry. But we will start with that
Robotaxi launch to talk about what we can expect from
the big event Thursday night. We have our regulars, Dana
Hall and Max Chafkin.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Hey there, Hey, hey, good to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Hi David, and we also are beaming in from London
our Global Autos editor, a very busy man, Craig Trudell. Craig,
how you doing Robotaxi week? Happyt rowboat Taxi week to you, sir? Okay, So, Craig,
we are just a couple of days away. I can
sense the excitement in your voice. By the way, all
(02:12):
the way across the pond, I can just feel it.
No jumping around though in the studio over there, our
studio can't take that. What do we know? Remind us,
what do we know so far about this robotaxi the
cyber cab as Elon calls it, and what's he been
promising and what are the general expectations for it?
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Well? I think about you know, this time of year,
everyone talks about you know, debates and playing the quote
unquote expectations game, right where you try to you know,
under promise and then over deliver.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Right.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
I think Governor Walls his people were talking about he's
not such a great debater, He's very nervous. Elon isn't
playing that game. He is posting on x about this
being you know, one for the history books and agreeing
with one of his super fans that you know, this
is going to be the most significant moment for Tesla
since the unveiling of the Model three that was a
(03:02):
super important moment in the history of Tesla's So you know,
he is is you know, setting expectations awfully high here.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
He's in full, full on hype mode.
Speaker 6 (03:12):
He's in hype mode, he's in in salesmanship mode. And
you know, honestly, you guys have been talking about on
the podcast about the idea that it's been quite effective, right,
It's been driving the stock price up for months now,
and so you know, the the expectations going into this event,
I would say are hugely elevated. There are some analysts
maybe who are starting to come out with notes to
(03:33):
kind of you know, maybe maybe temper things a bit
so that they can sort of, you know, declare what
a what a surprise everything was. But I think you know,
you look at what Elon has been saying and hosting.
It's been anything but you know, lowering expectations.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Now, Dana remind us he's been promising the Robotaxi the
cyber Cap. I don't know, by the way, when he
changed from Robotaxi to cybercap, but he's been promising it
for a long time. When we're according to his initial
predictions way back when where we going to get the
cyber cap.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I mean, he made a big pitch to Wall Street
investors that twenty twenty was going to be the year
of the Robotaxi. Here it is, you know, late twenty
twenty four, and we're gonna have this unveiling Thursday night.
But I just wanted to make sure that everyone understands
that it's not just the Romotaxi event. People, it's called
we robot And so I predict that we're going to
see a Robotaxi, we're going to hear about the fleet,
(04:23):
We're going to see optimists do something like they are.
This is like sort of beyond just the robotaxi. They're
they're really pitching this is like the big event that's
gonna kind of explain to, you know, the plebes, why
Tesla has this huge advantage. And there it's there. They're
calling the event our official unveiling of the future of autonomy.
(04:44):
So it goes beyond just this robotaxi. It's like it's
much it's much bigger in their minds.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
So they're going to flex max all their technological prowess,
the technical prowess that the market says makes the company
infinitely more valuable than it's all old school peers. And
I guess we'll see.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Can you unveil the future?
Speaker 3 (05:04):
I don't think you can.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
And I think that that language, you know right there,
kind of hints at one of the problems. This is
not a product launch because there is no product, like
they can say that they are launching a cyber cab.
But there's a reason this event is being held on
a Hollywood sound stage, and I'm sure it's going to
be very impressive. I'm sure we're going to see something
that looks very much like a taxi driving around streets
(05:27):
that look very much like streets, but of course you
can't just do this in the real world because in
the real world it is not legal. And leave aside
the questions about whether Tesla can come anywhere to achieving
this on it from a technological basis, which I think
are big questions. You know, we tend to like think
about the really successful Elon Musk launches, the Model three launch.
(05:48):
Dana brought up the cyber truck launch also, I think
a very successful launch, notwithstanding.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
The broken glass.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
But of course there have been times when things have disappointed,
and in particular around autonomy.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, now, Max, let me through for a second, because
we have curated over the years some Musk highlights from
some of these events. Let's listen to them now.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
The car can do almost anything. You can pick your
favorite color, and it looks like a beautiful sculpture on
the wall. We expect to have the first operating robotaxis
next year. The goal is to make have electric you know,
solar roofs that look better than normal roof The new
Tesla Roadster will be the fastest car production car ever
(06:30):
made period.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Man. Listen to that stuff makes me want to jump
around here now. But Craig, so you've gone back and
look through.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Well, first of all, I think you were there for
many of them, for many of these events, and you
recall some of the greatest hits and the biggest crash
and burns. Like, what do you typically get concretely out
of these events and how does the market tend to
react to them?
Speaker 6 (06:58):
I mean, musk. You can say what you will about
his political leanings of late or his you know, sense
of humor. Sometime it can be you know, everyone's cup
of tea. But he is a showman. I think you
guys have talked about this on the podcast in the past.
Well boast about, you know, being able to deliver a
car in you know, rapid fashion did so with the
(07:18):
Model X and twenty twelve that that launched a couple
of years late, the Model three handover in twenty seventeen.
I just remember him talking about, you know, warning of production. Hell,
I guess he was. He was right there. But I
think he both is able to hype up the product
that he is springing to market and also, you know,
(07:39):
really get people excited about what's coming.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Right.
Speaker 6 (07:42):
I think back to twenty seventeen, when you know, toward
the end of the year they were showing the Semi
and surprise everybody by showing the next generation roadster that
was their first vehicle ever. He said on stage, you know,
people have asked us for a long time, when are
you going to make a new roadster. We are making
it now. He's still not making that roadster. He's not
(08:03):
even really making that Semi either, that that is in
pilot production. So he will make a lot of big pronouncements,
big statements, big predictions. I mentioned his sense of humor.
I do want to give him credit that he has
said that Tesla specializes in making the impossible merely late.
I think that's a pretty good line.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I just want to note that, like you know, I mean,
I think for the stock, there's a question of if
do people like sell on the news because the news
could be like less hypey than when then what people
are anticipating. But like if you actually go to the event,
people are super into it. Like these diehard fans, they
are flying in from all over the country. They're begging
for plus ones. Like to be clear, Tesla's inviting Wall
(08:43):
Street analysts, big investors, and they're like chosen influencers plus
some randos to like go to this thing. So all
the influencers who are part of the like Musk single
phantic echo chamber are all going to be there and
to be in the room with this guy who some
people think is like the i'mas Edison of our time,
like it is, it is enthralling for people. They are like,
(09:04):
oh my god, Like I got to see Elon Musk
in person, and that's like what they live for.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
And it's a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Like a tent revival situation where just being in the
same room with him and hearing him and being able
to scream his name, it's like very religious almost, And
I don't think you can sort of negate that. Like
when the Model three was unveiled, Like I was there
when he did that along with you know, like Mary Nichols,
the head of the California Air Resources Board, and like
there was electricity in the room because people really felt
(09:31):
like you were seeing the needle move. And I can
imagine that they will there will be a similar vibe,
you know, at this AI event, except Elon. I don't
get the sense that Elon is like preparing for his
you know, preparing for his remarks that much. I mean,
he's like on the campaign trail with Donald Trump, Right, so,
like in terms of showmanship, like, I don't think he's
(09:53):
like practice his pattern, Like I don't think the sense
that he's like hunkered down doing like product launch prep
way that most CEOs do. And so if he just
sort of like rolls in late and is off the
cuff and like shambles around and makes some jokes about
how the future is autonomy, like I don't. I don't
think Wall Street's gonna be super keen on that.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
One thing we haven't mentioned yet is that this event
is at seven pm Pacific time, so that's ten pm
Eastern time.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
This is a late event, and that.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
This is how Elon Musk likes it, right, he likes
these things as Danna and Craig are hinting as to
feel like parties.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
But it isn't.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's unlikely to me that this is going to have
a big media impact even no matter what he does,
because of how they've decided to kind of do the
theater of it. And I've been sitting here trying to
think about, well, what could Elon announce that would be perceived?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
What does a positive what does success at the event
look like?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So I think, okay, success would look like awesome design.
Does does does this thing somehow just blow you away?
That would be one thing Number two, and this is
more important, some sort of indication that they have a
deal in place with some municipality anywhere in the world
to deploy this thing in any kind of time front
frame that is like soon ish, you know, Like but
(11:15):
if we end this with just like here's a cool product,
but it doesn't there's no plan for deployment, I think
the reaction is going to be poor because I think
Elon has done so much to make it seem like
this is happening like right now that if the truth
is it's happening three four, five, six years from now,
that's going to be processed as a big disappointment.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Craig first, and then Dana the same question to you,
What does success look like for you?
Speaker 6 (11:40):
Craig, Yeah, I mean I would agree with Max. I
think hard and fast plans for deployment to me is
a must. And I think that's where this gets really tricky,
right because we've heard him literally year after year say
that you know, his robotaxis are just around the corner,
and even you know, as Dani alluded to earlier, back
in twenty nineteen, he was telling everybody that their Tesla,
(12:02):
the Tesla that you know was in their driveway, that
they had already bought, was on the verge of being
a Robotaxi. We know that there is no Tesla robotaxi
on the road. What is going to be shown in
La Thursday night is going to be, you know, prototypes.
I do think that, you know, Dana, you know, scooped
a few months back that you know, this event after
(12:23):
all got delayed because he wanted to make a design change.
I think that speaks to this idea that this thing
is not baked, and you know, I think the question
will be, does this guy end up having any credibility
with Wall Street when you know, in twenty nineteen, as
Dana alluded to, he said, you know, we expect to
have the first operating robotaxis next year, and then has
proceeded to predict that over and over again at nauseum.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I don't know if he's got credibility with Wall Street
or Wall Street analysts per se, but clearly, judging from
the reaction in the stock market of the last few
months when he made his grand pivot to the Robotaxi.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
I e.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
The stock has popped fifty percent. I guess he seems
to have still that credit in the bank with the
broader investor base out there, Dana, what does success looklick
for you?
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Well, he has to give people rides. I mean, he
can't just like stand on the stage and like pull
the sheet off of this you know, two seat robotaxi
like people. He actually has to give investors like rides.
They have to be able to and I think they're
gonna have to show like the app, the Tesla app,
and people are gonna have to like experience hailing it
and then like riding around in it. I mean that said,
(13:27):
you know, they are doing this on this kind of
closed course, and there's a lot of questions about whether
they pre mapped the route or whatever.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
But you have to have.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
People actually experience it. Because Tesla's try to sort of
do two things at once. They have sold current tesl
owners on the idea that eventually, with the flip of
a switch, your car will be self driving. And then
simultaneously they are now unveiling dedicated, purpose built robotaxi that
Tesla's gonna run itself. And you know, the whole idea
(13:56):
is that it's gonna be this combination of Uber and Airbnb,
where like you can drive your car yourself, or like
if you're on vacation or asleep, you can like lend
your car to this Tesla fleet and it'll make money
for you when you're not around. And so they kind
of have to differentiate and explain to people how this
is actually gonna work. But I think that it's not
a success unless, like the big investors actually get to
(14:19):
ride in this thing.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Just to note a caution, getting a ride in a
quote unquote robotaxi on a closed course at a demo
is not anywhere near the same thing as a robotaxi
being deployed in public. So, like, I think Dan is
right if they give If they don't give anyone rides,
that that will be a disappointment. But even if they
do give rides, everyone needs to watch that with a
(14:40):
you know, with a big granult.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Google has been.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Doing this for like fifteen years. Other companies, me and
Craig and Dana, we've all sat through demos on real
roads with robotaxis before. Like this has been going on
for a very long time. It is not novel to
be able to have a robotaxi demo on a close
of course, even though I am sure so certain that
Elon Musk will make it seem novel when he announces
(15:05):
it on the teenth.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Wait, the point is that Tesla does not have a
permit from the California Department of Motor Vehicles to deploy
any kind of robotaxi on public roads in California, full stop.
Like they do not have a pump permit. So the
only way that they can demonstrate this is to do
it on private land at the discretion of the owner.
And they're doing it at the Warner Brothers studio in Burbank.
(15:26):
And there's a lot of reasons for that. I mean,
Musk has done demos at Hollywood studios before. He like
famously unveiled the solar roof on like the set of
you know, Hollywood, what was it called, Desperate Housewives. So
that just the fact that it's happening on private you know,
on a private lot where you know they can control
the variables of what is in the built environment, is
(15:49):
really telling.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Now, Craig, this big event is late here East Coast time.
It's either super late London time or super early, depending
on the way you look at it. Three in the morning,
I'm guessing you're setting your alarm for two fifty five.
You're gonna pound a couple cups of espresso, and then, Craig,
you shall play Tesla cyber car cyber what what is
(16:15):
this thing again? To cyber cab launch bingo? Are you
not gonna play bingo? And to play bingo? Craig Dana
seems to have a card ready for us well.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So to back up for a bit. Listeners of the
you know, regular listeners of the pod know that we
often make an earnings call bingo, and this time around,
instead of earnings called bingo, we're doing Robotaxi edition Bingo.
And you know, like Musk uses a lot of stock
phrases over and over again. So we've got the big
O card and you'll be able to download it at
(16:48):
some point. But I bet Craig and Max and David
you can probably guess some of the words.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Come on, I'm Max, Tesla is an AI company.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I think you say that. There we go, Craig, what
here is this square?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
There is a square called that that very simply just
says AI.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
I got a feature complete March of the nines.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Oh those are good. Gosh, they're not on the card though.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:12):
Regulatory approval, We do have regulators. Regulators.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, not not optimistic en up for approval.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
We have some other phrases are scalable, cost per mile,
compute bus ticket end to end. We also have horse max.
You want to explain the why why horse often comes
up on our Bingo cards?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Do you remember the bastery like Elon?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
There have been a few horse related incidents, I believe,
But I think what this refers to is the fact
that Elon has said that buying a car without this
technology would be like buying a horse.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
Can I throw one one other animal one other animal
related card? How about boy boy who cried FSD instead
of boy who cried wolf? Because Elon has called himself
the boy who cried full self driving and was wrong.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
This is why you're not part of the committee that
creates the Bingo card. You're demanding squares that are just
too hard. No one's gonna get Bingo America and the
world more broadly, they want to get Bingo. They want
to say Bingo. All right, listen, this is what we're
gonna do. First thing Friday morning, Craig, we're gonna have
you back on. You're gonna give us your impressions of
(18:27):
the grand unveiling of the cyber Cab, and perhaps we'll
hear a little bit from Max and Dan as well.
So Craig, we say goodbye to you, sir, Thank you
for joining us, Thanks for having me. Okay, now, the
cyber Cab launch should have been the biggest news story
of the week for Elon. But then then Elon showed
(18:48):
up with Trump and Butler Pennsylvania and it got a
little wacky. Let's actually listen to the tape when Trump
introduces him on stage. His name is Elon Musk. Saved
free speech. He created so many different great things. Where
is he? Come on up here, ey lot.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
He created the first major American car company, and generations
in his rocket company is the only reason we can
now send American astronauts into space.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Come here, take overy, Lot, Yes, take over.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Hi everyone.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
As you can see, I'm not just Maga, I'm dark
Mega Jacob.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Welcome to the show. We appreciate having you on. You
are an independent journalist and currently writing a book about
the tech industry and right wing politics for Bloomsberry, which
is all perfect for this segment. Did you watch this
either live or subsequently Jacob on Saturday?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Yes, I did. I caught it later. I wasn't able
to watch it live.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
And your thought as you are watching this scene, well.
Speaker 7 (20:04):
Of course, I think the screenshotted images, the still images
of Musk flying the air and awkwardly with minimal vertical
leap and his belly showing might be the one that
lingers most. Or maybe him leaning forward kind of leering
at Trump with this sinister handshake. I think those are
(20:24):
the things that a lot of people will take away
rather than anything that he said. I mean, he later said,
I believe on Tucker Carlson that he claimed to have
improvised most of that, and perhaps it showed. The biggest
takeaway for me is just the scene and the setting
that this is a fairly big event for Trump. He's
coming back to the horrifying event for him of the
tempted assassination, and right there next to him is the
(20:46):
richest man in the world, who just a few months
ago was a little bit restrained in his support, at
least not totally open and opening the floodgates of money.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, now, Max, why the jumping well, the jumping that
I cannot answer, and like Jacob is saying, the memes
have been fierce around, like these gestures and the jump
and everything. My reaction here was just like, wow, he
is all in. You know, this is a guy who
is you know, really putting everything, his entire identity and
(21:20):
a lot of his money behind this very very polarizing
reelection effort.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, and Dana, I will admit I didn't watch it.
It was Saturday afternoon. I was busy gambling, so you
will forgive me, but you know I did in catching
up afterwards, I had this sort of the same thought.
I believe there is a moment or two in the book,
in the Walter Isaacson biography of Musk, in which you know,
(21:45):
there's either Musk says it directly or Isaacson very much
gets the sense that at some point periodically I just
say fit and I just put ey. Musk just put
all my chips in the table and it was gonna
let it ride. Kind of seems what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, I mean I think that. Okay, So it's one
thing to start a pack to support President Trump. It's
another thing to sort of publicly endorse Trump. And then
it's like a third thing to like campaign with him.
I mean, no other CEO does that because you know,
people like hedge their bets and they don't want to
be on the wrong side if your side loses. But
(22:20):
I think that Elon Musk has made the calculation that
this is a very close race. He's already poured millions
of dollars into this campaign. He's now very focused on
Pennsylvania as a UPenn graduate, you know, he's like, I
know the state. He's like campaigning with Trump. He's gonna
do more events with Trump. And I think for him,
it's like he wants his you know, he wants his
guy to win, and he somehow thinks that he is
(22:42):
value add But I think what was most disturbing to
me was this whole dark Maga thing. I mean, it's
like a dark vision of the future, and Musk is
becoming very dark, like saying, if you don't if Trump
doesn't win, this will be the last election that we
ever have. I think that it just really solidifies Musk's
reputation going forward, like people will people will will not
(23:03):
remember him as the guy who was trying to help
solve the climate crisis with electric cars. They will remember
him as the guy as the richest person in the
world who threw in all of his chits with Trump
and still on stage with him wearing like a dark maga.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah, and to that point, he actually I've now seen
appears in ads for Kamala Harris as someone that they
wanted very much linked to Trump. Jacob Dana mentioned just
now how unusual it is for a business executive of
his rank to campaign with the presidential candidate. And I
(23:40):
actually checked in with our DC crew and they don't
have any recollection of having seen it in recent history.
I suspect it's a fairly risky gambit, is it not.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I think so.
Speaker 7 (23:51):
I think, you know, there is some precedent here. Even
at that event. One thing I did notice was that
I believe John Paulson, the Hedge funder, warmed up the
crowd or spoke briefly.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
That must have been That must have been a barn
burner of a speech.
Speaker 7 (24:07):
Yeah, I think there's a reason why it hasn't been
circulating on social media. But you know that that is
representative sort of the plutocracy that is part and parcel
of Trump and the backdrop behind him. But on the
other hand, You're exactly right. There there's been no one
of this media ubiquity, of this level of power and
wealth and influence, and must seems to understand, or at
(24:29):
least it has been joking about with Tucker Carlson that
there is some risk here. He's a major government contractor.
This has been brought up by numerous people, including Tucker Carlson,
and there are I think questions about some of the
donations and any campaign finance issues here, or even the
data collection that's been conducted by America Pack that's being investigated,
(24:51):
I believe by some state election officials. So there are
all kinds of potential exposure for someone like him.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
We actually have that clip right now. Let's let's listen
to it.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Loses, man, what You're fucked dude.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
If it does.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I mean, you know, I think he's joking, but also
not joking, right, I mean, there are a swirl of
federal investigations, and I think these comments do speak to
the fact that he's bought in. Jacob mentioned a couple
of things that also happened alongside this appearance, one of
which was the Carlson interview. The other is that Elon
(25:31):
announced this kind of big pushed collect names for a
mailing list. He's going to pay forty seven dollars per
person per registered voter in a swing state that you
refer and this is significant. People have asked sort of
questions about, well, what you know, does this potentially violate
you know, election laws and stuff. I seriously doubt it does.
But I think what it does signal to me is
(25:54):
that Elon Musk has ambitions to be a political player,
maybe in the long term. I mean, you know, one
one of the things that one of the things about
showing up at this thing, at a Trump event is
there's sort of no going back from it, right, It's
going to be very difficult for Elon Musk to sort
of like departisan himself if this.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Were sort of a more run of the mill John
McCain kind of you know candidate perhaps, But if someone
of this il Donald Trump and the polarizing effect he
has in the place, yeah, we've seen it happen.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
But like the combination of showing up at the events,
putting all this money, but the fact that he's spending
potentially a substantial amount of money building this mailing list.
So if you do the math, forty seven. He's saying
he wants a million names times forty seven dollars. That's
forty seven million dollars buying a forty seven million dollar
email list. Obviously, that would be useful to the Trump
(26:45):
campaign to potentially turn out voters. It could be an
asset going forward, right like having a massive mailing list
of Trump aligned registered voters in swing states would give
Elon potentially be a power worker going forward, no matter
who wins or loses this life.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
All right, we're gonna move on to the main topic.
You know, Jacob again, way back when when we first
thought we'd have you on, we were gonna have you
on just to talk about X and how you managed
very impressively to get a judge to unseal the names
(27:22):
of all the investors who bought the company alongside Elon.
Tell us what you found.
Speaker 7 (27:29):
Sure, So, thanks to the help of our CFP or
Reporters Committee for the Freedom of the Press, I filed
a motion to intervene in one of the many lawsuits
that Elon, Musk and X are facing since the acquisition.
And in one of these lawsuits this is related to
employment issues and basically people suing the company who were
(27:50):
let go. They had to file a list of shareholders
X did, and they chose to do.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
So under sealed. They want to keep it secret.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
Now, these kinds of things happen all the time, and
so do with these kinds of emotions to intervene. But
this was something that I had been looking for and
wondering about, was who was actually the money behind must
taken over the company. We had some sense there were
SEC filings and public statements that gave us some idea,
but nothing with the sort of force of illegal filing
(28:22):
like this, and it actually worked rather quickly, within about
a month or the summer, a judge ruled in our favor.
You know, I think there are some surprises there, and
I think it gives a good sense of who Musk
is turning to for money. And also the difference is
actually between what he says to some people and in
both in public and private, and then actually how this
(28:44):
played out.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
And the list is pretty wild, because I remember when
it came out, we were all like, I was like,
oh my god, like Jacob.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Got the list.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I mean, but it's like this rogues gallery of like
foreign money, but then like Fidelity, and but then like
Sean Comb so Jacob jan maybe like run through the
highlights of like who who actually the investors are sure?
Speaker 7 (29:05):
I mean, and some of these were mentioned in passing before,
like Shawn Combs, the you know recently indicted P Diddy
is definitely on there. We don't necessarily know for what amount,
but he has a company called Shawn Combs Capital, which
is maybe a reminder that so many of these celebrities
are now investors there are you know. One thing that
(29:25):
I really noticed was the difference between those texts that
were released as part of the Delaware court proceedings that
kind of convinced must to go through with the proceedings.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
I think.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
But in those texts he was telling David Sachs said
he was in, but he's not on the actual list.
Unless there are a few companies that can't identify their owners.
Maybe one of those is his. Some other close Musk
associates aren't on there. In the text he Musk was
constantly telling people that the deal was oversubscribed. You know,
Larry Elson would say, oh, I'm in for two billion
(29:58):
if you want. But then we you know he was in,
but it doesn't seem to be oversubscribed because he has
people like this guy Andrea Stroppa, who's kind of a
semi obscure Italian cybersecurity researcher and just seems like a
guy must talks to on X. That's sort of this
category that I called the inexplicably rich. And then there
(30:21):
are also companies like Fidelity, which is a huge financial
firm invested in more than two dozen funds. But then
also you have kind of lower tier financial firms, I
would say, you know, and also even venture capitalists who
you know, through no fault of their own, but typically
do smaller deals like less than five hundred thousand dollars.
(30:42):
You just wouldn't expect that kind of more obscure, smaller
money to be part of this, especially when Musk was
telling his billionaire friends, hey, this is oversubscribed, but all.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
So obviously he was having to work a lot harder
to stump to get people to put up the cash,
and he was intimating now they're also there was a
list of a few prominent or at least one prominent
Saudi name.
Speaker 7 (31:07):
One of the largest or the largest outside shareholder of
Twitter when it was a public company was a Prince
al Willi bin Tallal from Saudi Arabia. He's listed three
separate times in the official ownership list as Kingdom Holding
Company and then under his own name, Prince Ali bin Tallal.
(31:27):
The important thing there, I think is one he was
always close, of course to the Saudi regime. But a
few years ago MBS, the notoriously violent Crown Prince of
Saudi Arabia, imprisoned a few hundred notables, including this prince,
and had a lot of them tortured and forced to
turn over their assets. This was part of what was
(31:48):
called an anti corruption purge. So I think that kind
of relationship with an authoritarian nation state is a big
part of the X story right now.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
People should read the piece that Jacob wrote about this
in The Baffler because it's really funny. It's got a
lot of jokes and kind of like Dana kind of
hinted as breaks these people into categories, and but when
you take it into totality, I mean, it's just it
is like a weird collection of supporters and enablers which
we have known about, but which kind of encompasses a
(32:19):
lot of sketch, a lot of foreign money, a lot
of people who we don't quite know where their money comes.
From Binance, which you know was founder was pled guilty
and just got out of prison, is a major investor,
and fine, you know, that's kind of how capitalism works.
But like, this is a company that is playing a
very significant political role. It's not just a like, you know,
(32:43):
social media site. It's it's a major way that like,
especially people on the writer are consuming their news. And
like we've had these discussions so many times over the
last ten years or so that it's almost like trite
or cliched to bring it up, but like it definitely
seems like a lot of people you wouldn't necess necessarily
want to have like super close to to like election
(33:05):
advertising or or messaging about voting, or telling people that
the vote is rigged, as we're seeing over and over
again on X, So like its just something to keep
an eye on.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I think, you know, this is probably not.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
The right place to say this, but this whole story
about Elon and politics, the thing that I've found most
amusing and fun is that Politico reported that that Elon
is planning on doing more events with Trump, having even
more political engagement Trump, and it mentioned that he went
to a Steelers game over the weekend.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
That that big to be clear that I did walk
he's a big football fan.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
He was waiving a I think it's terrible, but this
political story sourced to I don't even know who with
some some somebody familiar or whatever, said that he's also
a fan of the Philadelphia Eagles, So he's he's for
all the teams he's going to. He's going to be
extremely relatable to Pennsylvanians over the next a month.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Late, I've been joking around like, so we can we
confirm that Musk is gonna do more events? And I've
been joking around like what is the what is the
next campaign event? Is Musk gonna go to a sheets
or a wah wah, Like, is he gonna yeens around
and like drink rolling rock beer? Like what is the
penaltimate like Pennsylvania campaign event to do?
Speaker 3 (34:15):
He's gonna go to the old vet the link that
he's gonna watch the Eagles hilariously.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
It seemed like the chief point of evidence here is
that he attended the Super Bowl game featuring the Eagles
in Rupert Murdoch's owner's box like all great Eagles fans.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Of course, he has been in the owner's box with
all all I'll say this is having known now, knowing
that he was at the game and having bet and
lost on the Steelers, I needed him to waive that
towel and shout and holler a little bit more loudly
to get the Steelers home. Listen, Jacob, We're gonna wrap
it up there. When your book is out, sir, please
(34:50):
let us know and we will absolutely have you back on.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
That'd be great And thanks for this. It was fun.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Max Dana thinks as well as always grease to be here.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Of course, nice, don't you, Jacob.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and
Rayhan harmanci Are are senior editors. The idea for this very
show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, and
Dave Purcell fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson.
The Elaning theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa
and Alex sugi Ura. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer,
(35:32):
and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A
big thanks as always to our supporter Joel Weber. I'm
David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, rate and review
our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you
next time.
Host
David Papadopoulos
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