Dating Younger Men, Making Anxiety Beautiful & Traveling the World Solo- Uncut with Sarah Wilson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands
were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders
past and present.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on de rug Wallamata Land.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hey guys, and welcome back to another episode a lifeun Cut.
I'm Brittany and I'm Laura, and I'm not in the mood.
You know why, because it's a public holiday. It's Monday morning.
This episode goes out tomorrow, and that that's a fair
reason to not be in the mood. You want to
be home on public holiday.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Think, Yeah, everybody else is on holiday. Why are we
on a holiday?

Speaker 1 (00:43):
I don't know, why aren't we? I mean I just
got back from Hamilton Island, you see exactly.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
This is true, and I've spent my whole weekend picking
mandarin So really I should just be pleased with that.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Okay, we had wildly different weekends. I had like a
sex field, amazing, beautiful tropical island weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Coming on your Instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
You were so wholesome. You're picking mandarins in the yard.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
The girls had the barskets. It was really cute, all right.
I want to hear about your sex feel weekend. Although
I did give hi out a blowjob, so at least
I get some brownie points? Did you just one? Thank
you just did it for the team.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
You know why I'm high fiving because I know I
know you don't like that.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
I did it without expecting anything in return. That is
a selfless act.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Well or not, all heroes work cape Sometimes people just
give this weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, i'mlike a charity worker.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Don't put that on your CV, do know? And that
is also not a tax ride off horse to charity.
This year I gave four blow jobs to charity.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I really hope Matt doesn't listen to the star of this.
I'm sure someone will tell him anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I mean it was a good time, Okay, well that
was that's a great thing.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
And so we did that. And then I also picked mandarins,
two separate so two separate things that we do.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
So you did it for because a lot of people
don't believe it or not, a lot of people don't
blow job to completion. They blow job just to get
in the mood for sex. But you didn't do that.
You just you didn't get sexed into anything.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
You just just was a giver, just gave, just gave
the gift, and then I went to sleep, and that
was my gift.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Even though I'm shook by that.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Would you do that? Would you keep the game?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Not often, you're the gift that keeps on giving.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Tell me about your weekend. Let's stop talk about my sex. Truly,
that's probably all we need to know about it. But
I would love to know about Hamilton Island.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Hamilton Island is Actually I was genuinely blown away. I
wanted to take Ben somewhere amazing, but I also wanted
to go somewhere that I haven't been.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
It is so beautiful, so really, I feel like everyone
goes there and then they're like, how is this place real?

Speaker 1 (02:36):
I was like, how have I not been here before? However,
I made thirty five years of my life. It was
a two hour flight and we were in heaven. I
think in Australia we get into this groove of we
grew up here, Like Australia is such a beautiful place.
We grew up on the beaches. We're used to nice weather,
and we have great food, and we have so many
amazing landscapes around Australia. But you get really used to it,

(02:59):
and I think there's a level of just not taking
it for granted, but maybe not being as blown away
as other people, but taking Ben there. Now Ben's from Switzerland,
but if you haven't been to Switzerland, there's no oceans,
there's nothing like that. It's all mountains, just.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Cows, mountains and cows, great green grass and cows.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
So seeing Ben's reaction to it and made me also,
it made me so happy, but it made me realize
how incredible it was, because he's like, this is actually
He's like, I cannot believe places like this exist. Oh yes,
I went out snorkeling, and now Ben's not a snork.
While we got a noodle, we shared the noodle, we
held hands and snorkeled the great barrier reef and it

(03:35):
was the cutest thing. We were like little sea otters,
floating down the barrier roof together holding hands. I suggested
it because the boats drop you a long way away
and then you will drift with the current for ages.
They're like, we're gonna drop you here. We're going to
drive the boat down a long way and you float down.
So I said to him, why don't we just get
the noodle and cruise so there's no rush, you don't
have to think about it. And it was actually amazing.

(03:55):
We just cruised the Barrier Reef. He saw so much
he hadn't seen, like.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
The fear there.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
It was just incredible and seeing him so blown away,
and look, I really wanted to do something very special
and I wanted to go all out, so it look
cost me an arm on a leg, but I got
a helicopter flight and he's never been in a helicopter.
And it took us to this private beach where you
sit down and you get a blanket out and you
have champagne, and it was it even blew me away.

(04:20):
I was impressed by me.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
I was.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
I was like fucking high five myself in the back.
I was like, you nailed this, Britney. And he got
out and he was like, Babe, how the fuck am
I supposed to ever top this? He's like, You've ruined it.
How am I ever going to propose? How am I
going to do anything?

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Like?

Speaker 1 (04:35):
I can't beat this? And I was like, babe, it's
not about competition, but competition is healthy.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
You peak too soon, you peaked on a non occasion,
that's the problem.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
It's not a birthday.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
It's not a Christmas, it's not like a mark special occasion.
It was just a holiday totally. So now you fucked
up for yourself and for him.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Well, I almost thought about dropping your knee. I was like,
should I just I've just nailed it? Should I just
do it? Should I just drop the But it wouldn't
have landed. He would have said no. And also watching
him with the wildlife life was the best. We're walking
along the beach or romantic and we looked into the
forest and he's like, can you just imagine how many
monkeys are in there living their best life? Ha ha, Look
like the babe, I'm gonna say there are no monkeys

(05:13):
in there with the best life. He thinks there are
monkeys here. It was it was really cute, But I
guess he's never been to this side of the world.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
I just want to circle back for a second. What
do you think then would say if you were to
drop a knee? Like if you were to say if
you were like, do you know what?

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Fuck it?

Speaker 2 (05:26):
I'm gonna take matters into my own hands because I don't.
I mean, why is it that we always have to
wait for the guy to propose In heterosexual relationships. If
you were to do it, what do you think he.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Would say, heaps of women do actually propose.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
If you're a woman out there and you have proposed
to your partner, I would love to know the reason
why you decided to do it. Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
So I was like, oh my god, this moment is
so beautiful. So I actually dropped a knee. I put
a knee down and I looked at it as a joke.
I looked at him and he was like, get up,
and I was like, okay. I got up, and I
was like, what would you do if I had proposed today?
Like later that night? I was like, what would you
have done? And he's like, I would have told you
to get up, but he would have said no because
and I said, but if there are people around watching,

(06:05):
He's like, well, I would have whispered to you. I
would have said yes, and I would have gone, this
does not count. I'm just doing it not to embarrass you.
But for him, he's like, he'll be the one that
does it.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
So traditional, so.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Boring one hundred.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Well, you guys got to meet Ben on the last
episode on Thursday's Ask on cart we had like an
interview with him at the start of it. It was delightful.
We've had so many lovely people reach out saying how
nice he seems. He seems so nice. He's really nice.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
He's a good actor.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
He played it up on that he's a goody. But also,
if you want to hear more from Ben, we have
him joining us on Thursday's episode of Ask gun Cut
where he's going to be answering some listener questions. So
if you have some specific questions for him, or if
you have a question which you would like a man's
perspective on a man who thinks that we have monkeys
in the wild here in Queensland. It may not be

(06:49):
advice that you can actually use, but look it'll be
a good laugh.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Okay, I want you guys, I'm gonna I'm going to
put this video up so you guys know what I'm
talking about. That you're listening at home, but Laura can
produce a kisher. We're at my house requ this right now. Okay,
So I want to tell you this live. We were
speaking last week about how Ben saw a spider in
my house and how he was just absolutely shitting himself.
He's like, Babe, spider, I want you guys to turn
around now because I can see the spider he was

(07:13):
talking about.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
There is this fuck off.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
There is a spider in the corner of our lounge. Grym, Now,
please look, can you even see that from here? That
is the spider that he was scared about. I will
film this and put this on Instagram for you guys.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
It's about the size of a grain of rice.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
I reckon, it's not even a five cent piece.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
No, it's a grain of rice. It would be the
length of a grain of rice.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yep. And I said, I'm going to leave that there
because that'll get all the bugs and stuff. And he's like, nah, man,
that has found me somewhere. And I'm like, no, he doesn't.
He's just a little he's a tiny little house.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
But I don't think spiders are heard animals. Okay, let's
get into it. Today's episode is about This was recorded
a couple of weeks ago, like maybe a week and
a half ago, when we were in the thick of
Dancing with the Stars. I was off doing the charter,
but Britt and Keisha got to interview Sarah Wilson, who
is the woman behind the brand I quit Sugar and
it is truly such an incredible chat. And one of
the things I love the most about it, and it
is leaning into this relationships and dating side, is that

(08:02):
she is somebody who enjoys dating younger men, which I
think really goes against the grain of what society says
is acceptable. I think when it comes to age differences,
often we say, oh, it's okay for men to date
younger women, but then it's also sometimes looked upon as
a bit questionable when an older woman dates very young men.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
The chat with Sarah is it's up there with one
of my favorite chats. She's one of the favorite women
I've spoken to, and that's for a multitude of reasons.
She's not just the person behind Equit Sugar. She's a podcaster,
she's multiple books, she's writing a book at the moment.
She's a keynote speaker, a philanthropist, she is such a
huge activist for climate change. But she's also incredibly funny.

(08:42):
And we did speak to her a lot about dating,
but not necessarily just younger men, which she does love
and she's happy to tell you about, but older men too.
The same week that we spoke to us, she had
just moved to France, and we will talk about that.
But she had dates lined up every night, ranging from
twenty five to seventy years old. And I find that
so interesting because she's just interested in the person and

(09:03):
for whatever reason that might bring. And I'm sure a
lot of the young men don't bring a lot of
interesting chats. I think the young men problem, why are
you bringing out the stuff?

Speaker 4 (09:11):
She also spoke about dating international men in comparison to
Australian men. She spoke about this thing called lost boy syndrome,
and we spoke about socially dating up or down, and
that's kind of a status level.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
That was a really interesting part of it.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
If you're someone who struggles with anxiety, or even if
you have someone who is close to you, maybe you
work with them, or maybe they're a close friend or
a partner who struggles with anxiety.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Sarah has a whole book called First We Make the Beast.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Beautiful, and it's about her experiences with anxiety, and she
has this really quite unique perspective on I think in
society we look at anxiety as something that we need
to manage, something that we need to struggle with and
battle through and medicate and kind of suppress where she
has this quite interesting perspective of actually people in history
that have suffered with conditions like this have been some

(09:58):
of the most creative and innovative people. And so instead
of suppressing it, we need to learn how to make
it beautiful and how to kind of work it into
our lives to make it work with us. Sarah is
someone who has bipolar and anxiety disorder as well as
hashimotos and that's kind of how the whole I Quit
Sugar thing came about.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Well, before we get into that, there's something else I
wanted to bring up. This is an update that's happening
on the iOS at seventeen, which is like the next
Apple update. Now, Apple is trying to cock block you all,
but maybe it's a good thing. Basically, they're bringing out
this type of AI cock blocker, like a center, like a.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Dick pic blocker, an AI cock blocker, and they're not
going to run to your date and be like no, no,
dear no.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
So if somebody tries to send you a dickpic solicited
or unsolicited, it'll come up with before it sends you,
before you receive the image, there's going to be some
sort of like wall that pops up that says, are
you sure you want to be receiving this dick pic?
And then you say yes, no, and then you can
like opt in as to whether the dick pic is
one that you can send to or not.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
But I think it's tittypicks too, and like Vagina pick diics,
but like I detectively we think, yeah, it's objective.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah it's not.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
We haven't done a study, but I think that's what
it is. But it's the idea of yeah, unsolicited nudes.
It will now say do you want to receive this?
Which it's like, you know, I think if you're sexting
and you're masturbating, and it's a bit of a moodkiller
when there's a tick.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
Yes, no, maybe to proceed, like to proceed with cause
sent king, I reckon I'd be I'd be like, yes,
I love that you're.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Asking for my consent.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Okay. I think that this is a brilliant idea because
we have all, I mean I should say we have all.
I think most of us have received an unsolicited dick
pic at one point or another.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
I literally got one three days ago. I get them
in my DMS all the time. Who strangers Instagram DMS,
and I can tell what is going to because you know,
when there's a picture that comes up that's like blurry,
but you can almost make the outline out, you know
when Instagram because it senses it its senses.

Speaker 4 (11:51):
If it's material, like from a person who hasn't messaged
you before, yes, yeah, in.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
My m request just a stranger. Sporadically, it'll happen. It
only happened a couple of days ago, and it was
I could tell what it was through the screen and
I didn't click on that one. But two three weeks
ago I got a different one and it was a big, giant,
angry penis.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I can honestly say that since I have started posting
mumb content, no one has sent me a picture of
their dick, Not even not even Matt, not even my
husband has sent me a photo of his penis since
becoming a mum, which, look, I think that that's offensive.
I think I'm still fucking.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Someone stand the woman and dick piccause someone that's what
she's saying. Why don't I get the tick pic? Yeah,
someone will send you one.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
No they won't. Please don't look, please don't Okay, I
shouldn't say that I think everybody's experienced it. But I
do think that if you have been online dating in
say the past ten years or fifteen years, how long
al online dating has been around, if you've been proactive
on the apps, there is a good chance that you
have received an unsolicited nude. Whether it be and I
we shouldn't just say deepics. So obviously it happens on

(12:58):
both sides of the coin. I'm sure it happens just
as much on platforms such as Grinder, if not more
than what it does on some of the more sort
of heterosexually skewed platforms. But I guess the thing with
this is is that when we were younger, or when
it would happen, it was almost as though and it's
absolutely not the way it should be. I know it
was offensive, but I do also remember just being like, oh,

(13:19):
like fuck off and block. You know, the onus was
always on you, the person receiving it, to protect yourself,
to block yourself from that person, or to tell them
that you know you don't want that, whatever it was.
But I do think it's interesting that it's new. Change
will mean that the dynamic will shift because somebody who
is on that potential receiving, and someone who's going to
be the victim of a dick pic, which is what
they are, can block that before it even is going

(13:40):
to happen. But as you said, Britt, it does create
the situation where when you are wanting something and you
are having a sexy moment, your climax with your partner
or with someone that you're flirting with, it does put
a little bit of a dampner on the whole moment
where you're like, yes, I would like to receive a nude,
do you just do it once? And then you're like, yes,
I only want to receive nudes from this person no
or temporary time.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
But imagine that you're at your climax and you get
that it's a moodkill for most peopleificcation.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
I guess that one comes in she's like a well,
I mean, for feel in long distance relationships. I wonder
if it's like, yes, I approve always from this person.
But what I'm more interested in is does it send
the person a notification this person declined your nude, so
don't send them again.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
I don't reckon it. Will I reckon it will just
not deliver the content.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
I think it absolutely should It should be like, hey,
just letting you know, like, because then you don't have
to do your own dirty work, right Like people find
it uncomfortable to say like I didn't like that, I
don't want this, or they do the block and delete
whatever it is they're like. Almost makes it easier for
people who are conflict avoidant. They just have to reject
the nude and then that person gets a little notification
that pops up saying nude rejected.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
I saw something kind of related to this the other
day that was the most brilliant thing I've ever seen
come out of Reddit.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Someone said we need.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
An app cancel plans or cancelation. So basically, you get
the app and you put your plan in that you
have with someone else. Let's say, hypothetically, Laura, you and
I have plans for dinner tomorrow night. We put the
plans in and I can click I want to cancel,
and if you also click I want to cancel, we
both get a notification. Confetti goes off and plans are canceled.

(15:17):
If you don't click cancel, plans go on and you
never know that I wanted to cancel plans. It only
activates if both of this app doesn't exist yet, but
it needs to so that if we both want to
cancel plans, we don't have to have the awkward contotion.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
This is a terrible idea. It's gonna make people so
we're never gonna We're never gonna leave the fucking house
because somebody, do you know what? We need accountability, We
need those friends who make us do things because the
problem is is that everybody has the feeling at one
point or another, Oh, can't be bothered, I can't be bothered.
And then you get bothered and you get dressed and

(15:53):
you get out and you have a great fucking time.
And the problem is that we all have that moment
were go, God, can't be bothered to.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Go to dinner tonight?

Speaker 4 (15:59):
And then imagine more pure than when someone cancels plans.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
And you didn't want to go, but then you don't
know that if you went, you wouldn't have had the
time of your life.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, and like your life is not going to change
or get better by sitting in your house watching four
hundred episodes or whatever it is that you don't know.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
It's why it used to be so good. I remember
when you'd finished school, you'd ride your bikes right, because
we didn't have phones there, because that's just how old
were You used to ride your bikes and you used
to know that all the friends would meet up on
the corner after school, so you had to go. Even
if you went to say you couldn't go, you'd be
like mom, Dad, if your mum didn't let you, you'd
be like, I have to just go and at least
tell them I'm not going. So you'd get to ride
your bike to the corner and say, guys, I'm not
allowed to play today, and then you'd run home. I

(16:34):
want to be Leonardo DiCaprio in Wolf of Wall Street
with the money fanning going take my money for this app.
I would pay so much do anything. You wouldn't. You'd
put your audio on. You would sit in front of
your TV and you'd put your audio on, and you
would never leave.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
No, Kisha would just be staying at home, accepting and
rejecting news. I think it's great.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
The only thing about the sending news thing that this
has raised a question in my brain is have I
ever sent an on solicited nude.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Tundy like you?

Speaker 4 (17:02):
Hundred pcent would have maybe unexpected, But I don't know
whether they've ever been not one, you know on Instagram.
How if you've sent a message.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
To a couple of people, it comes up at the top.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
We'd like send to these five people every now and then,
I'd be like, you know what.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Send or welcome? Everybody has received one that they didn't want.
How many of you have said one not realizing that
it's one that that person probably didn't want to receive,
because you don't know, well, that's just it, right, Like
I would honestly sit here and say, I don't think
that I have ever sent a nude that a person
wasn't happy to receive. But I've definitely sent nudes that

(17:36):
they didn't ask for at the time, because like the
conversation was heating up. I didn't say, hey, would you
like me to send you a nude? I just sent one,
and then obviously the conversation progressed. But I wonder if
in that moment they were like, I want this, or
they were sitting at their desk like, probably not the
time to be sent a photo of your ass, Laura Burne,
I mean, we've spoken about Dick Pitze loads. We wrote
a chapter on dickpics in the book. In this phase

(17:57):
of my life. I didn't realize that they were that
prolific or that much of a problem that I always
needed to try and kill them off. Now it turns
out people are still experiencing it. It's an ongoing issue,
and soon iPhone's gonna deal with it.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
And you know the best thing on that that iPhone
have done. They're changing the auto correct so you don't
have to say ducking anymore. They're taking away autocrek ducking.
Now you can say fucking.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Literally, nobody has ever written duck this in their entire life.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
That's what I mean. It's taken them the aufice time.
No one is saying duck me, duck you ducky like
no one is saying no one cares that much about ducks.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
I ducking stupid.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Duck's a cute.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Anyway, With all that out of the way, I have
an accidentally unfiltered for you guys, And funnily enough, it
has to do with phones. My sister does not live
at home with us, but she still uses my parents'
Apple Idea account. I have been telling her for many
years that she needs to get her own account, but
she has never listened to me. One morning, I was
cooking breakfast, and my mum was sitting at the table
on her phone, and suddenly I hear my mom go,

(18:50):
oh my god, and then she called dad over to
have a look. Oh no, I then hear my dad say,
oh my god, what is this out of interest? I
then head over to the table to see what all
the fuss is about, and there it is, and my
mom's phone, multiple nude and sexy photos of my sister
in compromising positions and sexy laingderie. What had happened was

(19:11):
that my sister's sexy photos had sinked automatically to the
iCloud and had been downloaded to my mom's phone. On
the premise that I would literally die if this had
happened to me, I never told my sister. I did, however,
set up a new account for her and her photos
no longer sink to mom's phone. Why did your mom
call the dad over?

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, that doesn't need to be involved.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
That's the weirdest part, Frank, quick, Frank, that's the weirdest part.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
I'm such a good sister for not telling it.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
And at last there was no do you know what
unlessa wasn't they went face photos. So she didn't under
the mom wouldn't have understood what was happening. Maybe it
was just like tittypicks and butt picks and stuff, and
she thought someone was hacking the phone because my parents
wouldn't understand technology like that, don't.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
I think if she wasn't sure how they'd gotten there,
and she was like, what the hell's happening? I think
that's why she called the dad. I think she did
it I purposely embarrass her daughter.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
I actually have an accidently unfiltered that came through from
one of my friends. So he had been messaging this
girl on hinge and they'd been going back and forth
and things were going well, and they were about to
go on a day like you know, it was getting
to that point where they were finally going to set
up a time to meet.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Right, So in the early stages.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
Of conversation anyway, he went out with some of his
work friends and had an absolute blinder like way too
many beverages were consumed. But he didn't want this girl
to think that he wasn't interested in her. He wanted
to keep the conversation going, so he was.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Far too many beverages deep.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
When he had to write back a message to her,
and so he realized, like, I'm too drunk to text
her back right now. So what he did was get
chat GPT up and ask it to send a message
for him, like craft a message to this girl.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
He needs to be banned.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
He needs to be banned.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
One hundred percent, not one part of him. Sober him
thinks that this is a good idea. But here's the message.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
He sent it to me after we were talking about this,
because I just lost it.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
The message read, Hey, I get it. You've got some
pretty impressive walls up, so you should. But just between
you and me, I'm a trustworthy person. I know you've
just met me, so I know it's all a bit foreign,
but feel free to take a chance, let those.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Walls down and get to know me.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
You can't date with chat gp TEA.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I don't think anyone actually is. Though, I don't think
anyone with a sound sense of mind or in a
good headspace is using it. I can tell you this
story is very true the message. I mean, I think
normal him would have not thought that was a good idea,
but drunk him was not making the same decisions.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
But I reckon there's a lot of people that would
probably rely on it. People that maybe not be confident
or have away with words or I reckon, there are
loads of people doing it.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Well, if you're somebody who's not confident and you're using
chat GPT, maybe it means that your chat is so
bad that that chat is actually better. It's not going
to get you anywhere, but it's still better than what
you're putting out Either way.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
There's no good outcome.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Also, catfishing of the texting world, I reckon, it's the
catfishing of everything though. People using it for their jobs,
people using it for their dating. It's just not a
good solution. Yet maybe in ten years time.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I would rather receive a hey than that Hey, that's it.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
You know my rules on Hey, how are you? I
would never reply to that on a dating app leuiz
is a little bit more to go off for me.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Hey, any day of the week. What was her response?

Speaker 4 (22:28):
I don't know what the response was, but I definitely
know that they didn't go on a date.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
So, you know, how shocking If she's.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
Listening, he's sorry, he's a good guy.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
You should go on a date with him.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
All right.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Well, on that note, it is time to get into
the chat with the wonderful Sarah Wilson. And bit of
a trigger warning, Sarah does talk about her experience with pregnancy,
loss and termination in this chat.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
It's towards the end of our conversation with Sarah, I'll
put a time stamp in the show notes.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Sarah Wilson is a multi New York Times bestselling author,
a podcaster or an international keynote speaker, lanthropists, and a
climate change advisor, just to name a few. All of
this at only forty nine years old, and she lives
a very unique life. You may have known Sarah from
the very early days of Equit Sugar. That's where I
first came across Sarah, but she's been incredibly successful since then.

(23:18):
In twenty twenty two, she sold off Equit Sugar and
donated the earnings to charity. She's here today to chat
to us all about her life, dating in your forties
and how status impacts dating, as well as traveling and
venturing around the world solo, because she's just moved to
Paris where she's joining us today. Sarah Wilson, Welcome to Lifeline.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Cut lovely to actually kind of meet you. It's ridiculous
that I'm on the other side of the world when
we finally meet, because I think we don't live that
far from each other in Sydney. Well normally, yeah, normally
what we do now, because I definitely do not live
in Paris.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
How is Paris? How have you found yourself in a
beautiful Parisian apartment?

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Well, probably a little bit of madness. I lived on
the road for ten years and then COVID happened, and
I based myself in Sydney for four years, which is
the longest I've lived anywhere in literally decades. So this
is more my natural environment is just setting one bag
and throwing myself into the world. So I've been here
five days, and given that you've introded with this idea

(24:18):
of dating in your forties and I'm only just in
my forties now, but I've been on four dates in
five days. That's my summation of Paris for all, and
you've only been there literally, And the men turn up.
The men turn up because look, women listening from Australia,
you know what I mean? Right, Like, I've had so
many no shows. The bar is so low, the bar

(24:39):
is around it's just below my ankle bone. Back in Australia.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
It's on the ground.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
People say, what's your criteria for a man, I'm like
a pulse and his own teeth. That's where we've got to.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
It is actually so funny. We talk about this all
the time, Like Laura and myself and now producer Quisha,
we constantly took Keisha has been recently, very recently dating
and she's said to me at the start, oh my god,
he's just amazing, like I don't know where I found him.
And I was like, what do you mean. She's like,
he wrote straight back to my message and he said
yes to dinner. And I was like what I was like,
that is that is what we're basing our husband.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah, that's the bar.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
You just moved to Paris, so you've been on four
days in five days, which means you hadn't even unpacked yet,
and you'd lined up a date.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, pretty much. I mean they were lined up from Australia.
So these are guys that I've met on dating apps
and they reach out to me and go when are
you going to be in Paris?

Speaker 5 (25:32):
Are you ever in Paris? And I'm like, yeah, we'll
be so yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
They sort of range in age, sort of by a
couple of decades as well. Last night I was on
a date with a seventy six year old He's a philosopher.
I've known his work for a long time. So it
wasn't quite a date, but it was really romantic in
the sense that it was just Paris Sarah.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Did he have his own teeth though, I mean seventy
he had his own teeth. With all the veneers around
in Sydney right now, I'm not surprised that you've had
to like add this to your criteria.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
So was that a date for you or was it
a date for him and you were just just intrigued.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
No, it was a date in the French sort of
way of doing things, where as a woman, you get respected,
you get treated well, you get complimented on how you look,
all of that kind of thing, just basic considerations.

Speaker 5 (26:18):
But no, it wasn't a date, but it was an
intellectual date.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
I suppose. He's a super bright guy. He's written I
think close to fifty books in his lifetime. He's one
of the leading philosophers. Yeah, so, and then we strolled around. Yeah,
so it's lovely, but here the men are genuinely curious.
There's an arrogance, certainly, but it comes from a genuine
self confidence. Whereas I find back in Australia, I think

(26:42):
there's a little bit of lost boy syndrome going on
at the moment, which I get because I think Australia
is going through some fluxes and so everybody's having to adjust.

Speaker 5 (26:52):
The frenchmen don't.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Need to be sort of do this machismo thing, you know,
the talking loudly and acting as though they don't care.
So it's refreshing. But we'll see, I'm five days in.
I mean it's you know, rose colored glasses.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Did you ever date in Australia? Did you ever date Australians?
And what's the comparison?

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well for women listening out there despairing and you want
to feel better against somebody else's experience. I was single
for fifteen years in Australia and I only went on
dates and had really wonderful.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
Experiences when I was traveling.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
So when I was back in Australia during that four
year period that I mentioned, I had twenty one no
shows in a row in a row. I challenge anyone
to beat that record. Yeah, it became a joke.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
So you had set up dates, and then of course i'd.

Speaker 5 (27:40):
Have to write because women listening you would also know that.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
You've got to do the hard work, you know, the whole. Hey,
we should catch up for a coffee somewhere sometime, to
which you reply, oh, yeah, somewhere sounds great, you know,
I mean eventually I did sometime. Yeah, I would suggest
the time, the place, you know, I'd literally put my
balls on the line, and then I turn up and
it'd either be a combination of either the guy just

(28:03):
doesn't show up to the coffee or the drink, or
they cancel literally three minutes beforehand.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Which is I mean, you're there, I know, before you're
at the date, You've done your makeup, you've done your hair,
you've arrived.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
We've done the hard work, right, You've got ready.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
You've shaved the legs, it's the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah, exactly, Well this is now what I do. Right,
I'm inversing Murphy's law. So now I don't shave my legs.
I literally wear a tracksuit.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
You wear your Bridget Jones's.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, and so it's just tempting it, right, Like the
chances are the inverse of Murphy's law is all that
you know sort of. I guess gamifying Murphy's law is
that if I do that, they may turn up, but
it still hasn't worked. But yeah, so it'll also be
a case of this is the classic one where you say, hey,
let's catch up Tuesday, and they go great, and so
then you sort of get to Tuesday three o'clock in

(28:53):
the afternoon and you send the message going are we
still on for tonight? And then you get the no reply.
I count that as a no show, So that's also
included in.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Okay, so the twenty one that this happened to, will
any of them repeat offenders?

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Like?

Speaker 4 (29:08):
Did you give them a second chance? Or was it
kind of like once they bail, once they're done.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
Well, yes, because the.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Bar solow we all give them second chances, third chances,
because they're like, come on, it.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Was the same guy twenty one times.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
She wasn't the same guy. It wasn't twenty one chances.
But what happens is, of course, like two weeks later,
you get a hey, you know in your inbox, right?

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Oh? The zombies.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
Resurrect from the dead and they're like, hey, how you been?

Speaker 2 (29:35):
So I got one the other day that was like,
do you hate me from someone who ghosted me.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
Weeks ago, and I was like, I don't have enough
care in my body, That's what I'm like, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
I do.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Fuck off.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
I'm like, yeah, maybe you just stopped replying to me.
I don't have enough emotion attached to you.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Gosh, Keisha. That's really indicative, isn't it that the interpretation
of their own awkwardness is too project an emotion onto you.
You must hate them, right, if something's not working out
here that whole it's kind of a form of gas lighting, right.
You're responsible for the emotional dialogue here? Do you?

Speaker 1 (30:11):
I feel like we do a whole podcast on just
these twenty one men. Do you follow up with these
men that have not shown up or ghosted? Do you
send them a follow up text? Do you just abort
mission away for them to come back with a zombie?
What do you do?

Speaker 3 (30:23):
It's a combination. I'm old now and so what happens?

Speaker 1 (30:27):
You are not old, but I'll forty nine is pretty old.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
I mean, I don't feel old.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
It's a number, but the sheer years on the planet
means I have a good experience. But the other thing
that happens, and this is going to sound old is
your estrogen drops off right you start to heading toward
you towards menopause. One of the great things about that
estrogen basically makes you care about a lot of shit.
As you go through menopause, you have less folks to
give about the wrong things, right, and it frees you

(30:52):
up to care about the stuff you do care about,
and so you get quite bolshep. And that's why we
turn into Karen's right. It's because we're like, I don't care.
I'm just going to say what I want now, because
after forty five years of being silenced. So with these men,
I will often confront them really calmly, because I don't
have a lot of emotion attached to these guys, and

(31:13):
I'll call them out and stuff, and sometimes under the
pretense of just don't go and do it to another woman.
And admittedly a lot of these men are younger than me,
because the men my age, I think are even more
petrified of me than the younger guys.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Well, that is something I wanted to get into because
I've read something about you in the Sydney Morning Herald
and it was very intriguing to me. Now it's intriguing
because my partner's five years younger than me. My ex
is seven years younger than me. I date down, yeah, no, sorry, typically, yeah,
I date down in age range. I don't know if
it was always intentional, that just sort of fell that way,

(31:46):
But you have said that you sort of lean towards
dating down, which is funny because they're the people that
don't show up as well. The men are probably not
emotionally mature enough, yet they're the men you seem to
be leaning to. Why is that do use that because
you have trouble of finding somebody that is willing to
meet you on your level, that is your age.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Well, what I would say is, in fact, men my
age are worse than the younger ones. They're actually more scared.
So they've picked up the behaviors of the younger generation
from the dating apps, and we've all done it right.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
Women are doing it as well.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
It's all it's the vibe and the technology actually enables it.
But I find that men my age are even more confused,
more scared than men in their thirties. My father has
a good theory on this. He reckons that you know,
when guys have got testosterone in their system right, gives
them this bravado, and you know, over the years it

(32:39):
also starts to dial.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
Down and they lose their mojo.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
And also older men have had more knockbacks, they don't
have as much confidence, whereas the young guys they've just
got that sort of that rawness, you know, where they'll
give it a go. The other thing, I mean, I'm
really going into the weeds here. The other thing is
is that I think younger guys who who are not
wanting to commit, they're faced with a generation of women

(33:04):
who are getting married younger. Like my generation, we didn't
get married. My friends did not get married. You know,
I'm sort of a child. I was in my early
twenties in the early nineties, and that was full austerity.
There wasn't a lot of money, there was a recession.
It was all about feminism. It was the grunge period.
We didn't wear makeup, we wore secondhand clothes, we didn't

(33:25):
wear bras, we wore flat shoes.

Speaker 5 (33:28):
It was all that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Right. What that's sort of done is created a certain
sort of mindset. What's happening now I find is with
the younger guys. The younger guys they had mothers like me, right,
I date guys who have mothers the same age as me,
and that's literally so they'd be brought up by feminists
and feminist teachers, and then they get to their sort

(33:49):
of late twenties in early thirties, and the women are
a different type of women. They're wanting to get married,
like you know, that's actually being shown statistically. They're getting married.
And we've had a period of incredible opulence in Australia
in the West, right, and so that creates a very
different dynamic with women. Women's rights and body shape and

(34:10):
role in society shifts with the economics of the time.
And you'll see over here in Europe where they're actually
going through the beginnings of a recession. You know, the
cost of living crisis is really affecting. And fashion has
changed women addressing differently, and that's happened throughout history. If
you think of the flapper era in the nineteen twenties
and thirties, War and the Depression, women's bodies were straight

(34:33):
up and down, women were in the workforce, You had
the Suffragette movement, women got the vote, women are out
there getting all these kinds of rights. Anyway, so there's
a bit of a background there. So yeah, I find
that men who are not wanting to get married, they're
wanting to focus on their career. They're quite creative and
ambitious and all that kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (34:51):
They're going, well, who do I date?

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Older women fit the bill because we're not going to
demand anything of them. We're literally going to be in
the present, having a great time, not wanting ring on
our finger, and not wanting to get pregnant anytime soon.
So I think I actually find more engagement, genuine engagement,
like old school engagement where they're actually interested in me
as a person among the younger men, which is great.

(35:14):
You know when they turn.

Speaker 4 (35:16):
Up, turn up.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
That's exactly right, Sarah.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
Something you wrote about in one of your recent newsletters
kind of to do with this topic. It was titled
I'm a spinster. I spin well, And in that piece
you wrote it something that really intrigued me, and you
basically said that the term spinster and I guess we
could use cougar, like there are all of these terms
for women who date younger men and who are open
about their dating life and that it's exciting and that

(35:39):
they're passionate lovers and things like that. It's not equivalent
to the term bachelor. You know, we seem to kind
of have this view of the way that we use
the word spinster that is negatively geared.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Have you experienced that.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yes, and no. I think it's more that women take
that on ourselves. We perceive it and I I've got
a real mindset that I've had for a very long
time where the mind goes, the energy flows. So if
you focus on that for yourself, that's what you'll get
back from everyone. You'll get that perception back. So in
many ways, I've operated almost oblivious to the fact that

(36:15):
I'm meant to get married and I'm meant to be
doing all of these things, and I've just got on
with things and every now and then I go, oh god, yeah,
that's right, I missed that memo, you know. So the
spinster thing is interesting, though, isn't it, Because this term
started out along I think it was in the sixteen
hundreds to describe women who were really good at spinning,
and because they could spin, it meant that they actually

(36:37):
had a skill set that was valuable and they had
their own income.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
What do you mean by spinning, is that like a
material thing?

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Spinning wool thread.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
Wait talking a long time ago.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
Yeah, I just pictured people who were really good on
the dance floor, like sitting around and I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
He's young, and.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
So see that jumper you're wearing back in the older way. So, yes,
women who could spin thread, right, whether it was silk
or wall.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
It was a spinning wheel.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Anyone who was really good at spinning it meant you
had your own income, right, you were financially independent, so
you could come into a dynamic, you know, with something
to offer, and that was seen as a really good thing.
So these women that went off and had careers, so
to speak, syneat a spinning wheel were seen as a
desirable entity. So you were considered a spinster. Unfortunately, now

(37:25):
obviously that's taken on a derogative connotation. But yeah, I
think the world is shifting. We are in an incredible
time of flux for all kinds of things, including gender roles,
including like, look what AI is doing to I mean,
I'm sure many of your listeners think about this, like
we're hearing about it.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
How's it going to affect all of our jobs?

Speaker 3 (37:46):
Everything's up for grabs, and so we are in a
great dynamic time to redefine all of these things for ourselves.

Speaker 5 (37:53):
And in fact, I.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Like the idea of slippy, Like while everyone's been distracted
by all of these rules and ideas and fears, I
basically just kind of put on my backpack and piss
on off to Paris or whatever and get on with
my own thing, you know, Like it's a really good
time to not be stuck in those role these stereotypes
and constricted laneways.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
And not that we're gonna we're not gonna harp on
about it, but just on that. I do know what
you mean by saying that Spinston now does have more
of a negative connotation to it, because when you think
of the you know, the antithesis, the bachelor, the equivalent
for a woman, Immediately people are like, well, what's wrong
with her? Why did she get to that age and
she couldn't have the family and she couldn't have the kids.
I want to get back to I mean, I feel

(38:36):
like we dove straight into dating that and I can
talk to you for one hundred years on it, but
I want to go back to the start. You've worn
many hats in your life, but in the early days
you somehow got a job as the editor of Cosmopolitan.
But you'd never read the magazine, you didn't wear heels,
you weren't into that world. How the hell did you

(38:56):
wriggle your way into that one?

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Oh, look, it's gonna say, it's going to sound ridiculous.
So I was. I mean, I've never applied for a
job in my life. I've just sort of well, I've
just been a ball of enthusiasm, I think, like really
dorky enthusiasm where I'd put my hand up to do everything.
So I'd moved to Melbourne and I did work experience
at the Sunday magazine, which is now called Stellar Magazine

(39:20):
and is to be based out of Melbourne. And I
went in there and the editor, who was from the UK,
she just didn't even notice me. On the last day,
I said, hey, thanks for having me, and she said, oh,
who are you? And I said, the work experience kid.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Thanks for having me. She didn't even know you were there.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
I knew that she was a bit like that.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
How old were you at this point, Sarah?

Speaker 3 (39:38):
I was twenty three, So I'm backtracking slightly. But she
asked me, well, what do you think of the magazine?
She has been polite and I said, oh, well, I
think this is great. This is great, but your food
and wine pages are shit and everyone's talking about how
bad they are.

Speaker 5 (39:50):
She said, oh, well, I have no interest in it.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
And she said, well, why don't you come back on
Monday and tell me what I should do about it?
So I want to learned what's called was called Quark Express.
This is like where talking just as the Internet's happening,
but it was called the intra net, so you could
only email people in the same building, in the same company,
and it was a time when we had to share
a computer between three people, like to get the job done.
So I know it's really we're talking to shortly after

(40:14):
the last Ice age.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
It was just after you finished the Spinster material wheel,
this pre industrial revolution.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
I just left my country home where mom and dad
were like, you got your spinning skills ordered off your go.
So I lurk Quark Express, which was a design program.
I went and interviewed a bunch of restaurants, and I
took the liberty of turning it from one page into
three pages in the magazine and redesigned the whole lot.
And I presented I said, I think this is how
it should look and she said, right, you've got a job.
So I became the Food and Wind editor. I was

(40:44):
the youngest person by twenty years in the office. So
that when Beyonce got big, this is we're talking that
era before Beyonce got big, I interviewed Beyonce. I was
sent to Japan to interview Alicia Keys, this new artist
called Alicia Keys.

Speaker 5 (40:57):
So I got all these opportunities.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
So I was writing all of that, and I started
writing opinion pieces for the Herald's Sun and I shared
a page with the really conservative writer Andrew Bolt. So
I was this kind of young left wing rider and
I just kept on putting my hand up and I'd
do it for free, and then eventually they realized they
had to pay me. You know these things that I did. Anyway,
somebody from ACP, which was the company that owned a Cosmopolitan,
came down from Sydney. They were asked by Rupert Murdock

(41:21):
to look in on the magazine and just do a
bit of an overview, and she reported me back to
head office in Sydney. They flew me up and said
and met with me. And initially it was like to
edit Wooman's Day or something, or be associate editor, and
I didn't really know why they were flying me up,
and then eventually they flew me up again and just said, hey,
would you like to work for Cosmo?

Speaker 5 (41:42):
And I'm like, yeah, sure.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Anyway, three weeks later I moved up and I didn't
realize this, but they made me editor.

Speaker 5 (41:47):
So I had to fly to.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
New York and meet the big head honcho, Helen Gurly Brown,
who started it all up. So yeah, that's how it happened.
But i'd actually been mountain bike riding. I came off
my bike, so I arrived on the job with my
foot in a brain on crutches. Years later, people said
to me, oh, we felt so sorry for you having
to arrive, and I'm like, oh, really, like, you know,
because everyone's wearing heels and I'm wearing a cowboy boot

(42:10):
on one foot. Everybody was wearing pink and more pink
and lots of sparkles, and I'd just moved fresh from Melbourne,
so I was wearing like black with asymmetrical pockets, you know.
And I'd never owned a hair dryer or a hair straightener,
and in fact, to this day, I've never owned a handbag.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
I've had like little clutches that people have given me.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
But I used to get offered handbags and I always
refuse them, and so.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Why was that?

Speaker 1 (42:35):
What was the aversion to the handbag?

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Two things, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Being given stuff for free is just something I never
have done, Like, I just don't do it. And I'm
an anti consumer. I'm a minimalist. It's always been my
principal since you know, since I was a kid. I've
always campaigned against waste and consumption and also buying into
the capitalist imperative. Like it's just the way I am,

(42:57):
you know, which is hilarious because I sold shit to
young women that they didn't need in a magazine, the
largest magazine in Australia. But you know that was it
was a job, and I enjoyed it and I took
it very seriously and I loved it, absolutely loved it.
But yeah, the other thing is I've never wanted to
be defined by a brand, like you know, if you
wear a particularly kind of bag, you're sort of saying

(43:19):
I am this kind of person, and I've always preferred
not to do that. I write about this in my book,
This One Wild and Precious Life. I have a chapter
on capitalism. And it's not like I'm like at this
raven socialist, like I fit in super well, like I
am girl next door, mainstream kind of person, Like I'm
not radical in it any way, but I do like
to question things. And I got the definition of a cult, right,

(43:41):
you know, from Wikipedia, and I lined it up with
how capitalism works, and basically it's just word for word
for word, the same sort of thing. But I think
the other thing about sort of that buying into that
kind of thing is.

Speaker 5 (43:53):
Nobody notices that.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
I Like, nobody stops in the street and goes, oh,
she's looking a bit ready. She's got like the tooth
brush bag as her wallet, and you know this sack,
this is my sack that a friend you know, gave
me in London and it had his library books in
it or something like that. That is my handbag. It's just
a check if anyone can't see, it's like a Gingham

(44:15):
canvas bag. Nobody noticed. Nobody knows is I've never ever
had my nails done. People don't care. And what that
does is freeze you up to actually be the human
you want to be, to be vibrant, to be able
to move as much as possible to focus on ideas,
you know, have wonderful affairs, whatever it is that you
want to do. And I say this because I just

(44:37):
love more people to feel that they could experiment with
that a little bit, not feel that they have to
sort of do all these things because honestly, people don't notice.
People don't notice if you've had your eyebrows waxed, you know,
or whatever it is.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
Well, I think the ownership of like we saw this
on Succession recently. There was an episode and if you
don't watch the show, it's all to do with this
girl who brings this big burken bag, right, you know,
her turning up with this handbag, and it was all
about putting yourself in the environment of what she thought
the people there expected of her. And you've been a
very successful business woman, you know, I quit Sugar was

(45:13):
a hugely successful business. You employed quite a lot of
people in Sydney, and then off the back of that
you ended up selling that business and donating all of
the money to charity.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
So can you talk through why?

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, it started from
personal reasons and again by accident. You know, I got
very sick at thirty four, I've been hosting Master Chef
Australia and I'd come off Cosmo gone straight into that
again by accident, Like that's another story. Ah yeah, it
was exceedingly strange. I did not know I was being
put in as host, but I was anyway. I got

(45:46):
very sick Hashimoto's disease, which is an autoimmune disease affecting
the thyroid, and more and more women are getting it right,
It's not common by any stretch, but it's really is
a disease that happens predominantly to women, and it happens
to women who pushed themselves.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
To can be stressing juice disease.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Definitely, it's got a biological predisposition, but then it can
be triggered by a trauma essentially. So I moved to
an army shed in the forest in Byron Bay, like
I was the og cliche Byron Bay was, you know,
just started to take off as a place to go to,
and for me it was, you know, ironically a place
I could afford to live. So I'd actually lost everything.

(46:25):
I couldn't walk, my hair fell out, I got very,
very very sick. I was told I'd never have children.
So I just took It was two suitcases of belongings.
I moved up to this army shed in the forest.
I lived there on my own, and I started experimenting
with my health. And once a week I wrote a
column for another magazine about So this week I dot
dot dot and be this week I meditated with his
holiness the Dialai Lama or whatever, which is true, a

(46:46):
true story. And one week I didn't have a topic.
It was so it was this week I quit sugar.
And it was partly because I knew I needed to,
because I'd been reading about hashimotos. There really is no
fix for it. But the one thing that you know,
this new science was showing was in sugar, which is
an inflammatory precursor. You quit sugar, you get less inflammation
your gut heels and your thyroid then can settle down.

(47:08):
So I gave it a go and I just felt better.
And then so I just kept going going. So I
wrote about it, and Twitter had just been invented.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
So we just come out of the Cold War.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
That's it, that's it, right.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
The iron curtains just come down, and Sarah's in her
army shed taking photos on her NOCKI your phone. I
think it was a motor role or actually.

Speaker 4 (47:28):
Taking a break from those phones that came in like black,
silver or pink.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Everyone had them, and so I would be inventing And
it sounds hilarious now, but like vegan avocado chocolate moose. Right.
So I was doing that shit thirteen years ago in
this army shed and posting these horrible pictures on Twitter,
and it just started to get more and more of
a following and people were really interested. And then I

(47:52):
was like, oh, there's these things called ebooks. I'm going
to work out what that's about. So I paid one
hundred bucks to do a course online and the internet
had been invented by this stage, and I worked out
how to do an ebook and it became an Amazon
bestseller overnight. I thought, if I sell a hundred it'll
actually just pay for the experiment and doing it and
getting the recipes out to people. And then, funnily enough,

(48:12):
it sold out. A publisher picked it up. I'm giving
some background here which I don't know if you want it,
but I went to Sydney and a publisher went, oh,
you know there's this. You've done this Amazon book, can
we do the print version? So I was, I think
one of the first authors to do it that way
around ebook to print book. So by this stage I'd
taken off and my two suitcases had reduced. I just

(48:34):
didn't replace anything, so I wore everything out like i'd
wear out a T shirt. I'd to throw it out.
By this stage, I had one backpack and I'd taken
off overseas and I was in Copenhagen and this publisher went, well,
we need a new cover for the book. So the
cover of the book, which a lot of people would know,
it's mean shorts sort of in this lovely little alleyway.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
I know exactly the cover.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah, So I was wearing a camasole that was tipped
on to the cover of a UK marik and when
I was in the UK, I just found it on
the streets. So I'm wearing a camasole. Back in those days,
they used to give you like little things on the
front of magazines, So I was wearing that.

Speaker 5 (49:09):
I was wearing a pair of shorts that were just
like falling.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Apart, no shoes because my shoes were in a really
bad state. And a friend of mine went, I'll come
to Copenhagen and photograph you so we went around on
one of those bikes with a bucket on the front
and she sat in the front and we rode around
Copenhagen with food and camera equipment and did the whole
shoot that way. And I found this guy who was
super cool and he said, oh, do your hair. It

(49:32):
turns out he was one of the best hairdressers in
in Copenhagen.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
You have a lot of turns out moments, you know, like, yeah,
it turns out the guy a breakfast was the Dalai Lama.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yeah, I can tell you now that that has been
my life, Like I have done things where I've gone.
I need to interview Maria Shreiver, who's Arnold schwartz Nikker's
ex wife, and she's this, you know, big host and everything,
and I'm like I'm trying to find her, and then
I get really pissed off. I'm like, right, just go
and have a coffee. So I got on my bike

(50:03):
to go to I'm segueing here to Porch and Parla
or Porch as it's called now in Bonda.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
You guys had not just a place in Bondai.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Yeah, it's a cafe. I have known those guys for
years and years and I went, right, I'm just not
going to have a look at my emails or anything.
And I'd got a rejection from Maria Shreiver's people, going no,
she doesn't want to be interviewed. So I go into
this cafe and I'm these people currently got staff that
used to work for me came up and she'd broken
up with her boyfriend. So I was talking to her
and the foster agent dude that you know I sort

(50:30):
of foster indigenous kids. He came to drop me off
a prize I want a boomerang or something. Anyway, I
was sitting there and then I look up and I go, oh,
I'm looking. I look up for this woman walks in.
I'm like, oh my god, that is Maria Shriver And
it was Maria Shriver walked into the cafe in Australia

(50:51):
and you hit her up. I hit her up. I
went over and I said, I got to tell you
the story and she went, oh my god, that's so cool.
And I said, oh, I'll just go home. I'll get
your coffee in my book. And I gave her coffee
of my book and me follow each they're on Instagram
and she supports me all the time. Now, I feel
like I'm.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
A mini you.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
I manifest gets everyone from the local cafe. That's how
Haybridge Blake ended up on the podcast I Manifest.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
I manifest so much staff. But I feel like it's
exactly the same thing. And I don't know if it's
necessarily like I mean, we all say, speak to the universe,
tell them what you want. It's not necessarily just that,
but it is the amount of energy you put in,
the shots you want to take, the people you approach,
the confidence you have. There's a lot of things that
go into it, and I think a big part is yeah,
I mean that's free and crazy, but it's definitely a

(51:32):
big part of shooting your shot. That's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
That one is ridiculous. Yeah, that is ridiculous. But it's
like people say, coincidences, Well, the whole of life is
just intricate coincidences, every single thing. Really the superpower that
if you want to, you know, develop some of superpower,
it's basically being vigilant and being online and alive and
aware and noticing things and engaging and going forward and

(51:57):
saying yes and going to your edge. And it's that
that then brings all of these conflations and congruences together.
But going back to the book, basically what ended up happening.
The book came out, It sold out in two days,
and then I actually manifested this. I when I want
it to be on the Today Show in the US,
and I just know it will be anyway. As it

(52:17):
turns out, they invited me over and I ended up
on the Today Show. I cooked three desserts in a
five minute segment, and you know, bringing it back to
the handbag story and not wanting to be defined and
not being fancy. I rode my bike at six o'clock
in the morning, like one of those sort of higher
bikes in like a line bike, and I rode a
bike across New York to go to the studios, CBS Studios,

(52:40):
and I arrived and Carson Dally, the host, was walking
into work, and he went, aren't you on the segment
in like, you know, forty five minutes. I'm like yeah,
and he said, and you write a bake yeah, And
that became a New York Times bestseller.

Speaker 5 (52:51):
So everything just rolled on and rolled on and rolled on.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
You've just basically got to be there ready to jump
when an opportunity comes you know.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
How many copies it's sold up until today.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
I should know. I know it's in apparently fifty two countries.
I mean the top two hundred most influential authors in
the world.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah, okay, that was.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
A couple of years ago now, but it was two
years in a row. I think it was twenty eighteen
and twenty nineteen, something like that.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
I think there's something to be said for just showing
up as your authentic self. And I know that that
term gets thrown around a lot, but that's what you did.
You exceeded all expectations. You sold the company, you gave
it all to charity. Talk is through that you want
to know.

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Why don't you? No? Do you know?

Speaker 1 (53:37):
What?

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Do you know?

Speaker 1 (53:37):
What? I really want to know? And I was Amy,
and I are in asking you, but I'm going to
ask you if you don't, what answer you don't have
to Everything I've read about you is the fact that
you do live this minimalist life. You do give a
lot to charity, You've given everything away. But then there's
a side that's you are traveling the world and you're
living in Paris right now, and how do you do that?
How do you actually live? Did you be like, Okay,
I'm going to take ten percent now, stock it away

(53:59):
in vest so I can live and then donate the rest.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Yep, yep, pretty much. I don't believe in either or.
My approach is and like give it away and live
the life that I want, right, And so you just
I worked out how much I needed when I quish
a good started to do well. I got an accountant
and you know, he sat down with me with a
whiteboard and said, like, what are your financial goals? And
I said, I don't have financial goals. He said, make
something up, and I said, right, in five years, I

(54:23):
want to have made enough money to be able to
live off the base wage CPID, so indexed each year
until I'm ninety four because I figured ninety four would
be good age to live to. And he went, all right,
let's do that. So literally five years two the week
I hit that goal. And so that's when I decided, right,

(54:45):
I'm going to shut everything down. I'll give the money away.
I've made enough money, so I'd invested in a couple
of apartments things like that, to some sensible things and
nothing glamorous, like just enough to set myself up solidly.
So yeah, I've reached that goal. So now well, I'm
really comfortable in the sense that I could stop working
if I wanted to and live a very basic life,
like I could afford rent and food and that kind

(55:08):
of thing. So now I do public speaking, I have
a podcast, I do a bunch of things, and I'm
not making a huge amount of money from those things,
but it's enough for me to go and travel to
Paris and that kind of stuff. I mean, I make
money to be able to fly to the other side
of the world. And when I'm driving someone's car and
I get a parking ticket because I don't own a car.
I haven't owned a car in about ten years, I

(55:29):
don't freak out. That's what I want money for. I
want to not have the stress of, you know, being
in a country like I'm in this department and there's
you'll probably hear you can hear the noise. Then you know,
waking up at what time is it could tonight that's
a mearly start for the Parisians on a Monday. But
it means that I can up and leave and go
and find somewhere where I'll be able to sleep because

(55:51):
I have terrible, terrible anxiety around all that. So I've
earned enough money to do those things. I've worked out
what I want money for, I've got enough for that.
And if I earn more from something, if a new
book does really well, I'll do the same thing. I'll
give away the stuff I don't need. And it basically
just keeps me on my toes. It keeps me from

(56:12):
getting complacent and getting sucked into stuff I don't need.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
I think it's such a perfect example of you know,
they say like money can't buy you happiness, but often
I've kind of said, yeah, well, I would be a
lot happier if I didn't have to worry about paying rent,
you know, like I think money can provide you with
a reduced amount of stress that comes.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
Yeah, And so I guess if you have all of
your basises covered, then you can go and kind of
travel the world. And that's something that you do love
to do. You love to hike around the world. We
get caught like messages, I would say, normost daily from
people saying I really would love to go and take on.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Some solo travel.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
I'd love to take on traveling the world by myself,
but I'm anxious, I'm nervous about it.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
How do you do it? So confidently?

Speaker 3 (57:00):
I'm scared a lot of the time. But you've got
to ask, at some point in your life, how do
you want to live your life? It is a one,
wild and precious life that we get given, we get
allotted a certain amount of weeks on the planet.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
How do you want to live?

Speaker 3 (57:14):
And at some point it's just a choice. It is
just a choice, and it requires sacrifice. And unfortunately, our
culture has not encouraged a dialogue around sacrificing to get
the thing that you want. You know, we kind of
think that it should be instant, or we should have
natural talent, or we can buy it, And it's not

(57:34):
how the world works. The world works in terms of
giving something up for something better, and it's mostly about
building up a muscle. So when you give up home
comforts to go and travel the world, that builds up
a muscle that then makes traveling the world fun, possible, rewarding,
and the whole thing right. You can't do it by
buy and off the shelf. You can't do it through privilege.

(57:57):
You can't do it by just happenstance. What happenstance happens
when you take the jump. And I've got this anecdote
in my book First We Make the Best Beautiful, which
is my book about anxiety. A therapist said to me
once a lot of you listening would probably know this
feeling where you're like, I know I need to take
the risk, whether it's leaving a boyfriend, leaving a job.
I know I've got to do it, but I want

(58:18):
to know that everything's lined up right before I do it,
you know. And my therapist said to me, she said, Sarah,
the thing about life is that when you do your
big jump, you basically grow angel wings and it'll fly
you to your next level, and it'll be a better level. Right,
you'll land in a much better place. But the thing is,
everybody thinks you can go and buy the wings. There's

(58:40):
no angel wing shop on the planet. I mean, it
was the most ridiculous example.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
No I have looked. There's not Yeah, or they're sold out.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Yeah, that's it. And they won't get you very far.

Speaker 5 (58:50):
They're pretty flimsy.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
So you've got to jump, and you've got to trust,
and you've got to actually develop a relationship with life
and the flow, the beautiful flow of life.

Speaker 5 (59:00):
Able to do that and so that's how I do it.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
I'm really glad you just said that traveling the world
makes you scared as shit, and that you're actually scared
all the time, because a lot of people aren't honest
about that. And I'm someone that's I've done a lot
of travel around the world by myself. I lived in
Italy alone and it is so fucking scary. It has
given me the best experiences of my life and the
best moments and the best stories. But I was petrified
the whole time, and I don't think a lot of

(59:23):
people really talk about that. We see Instagram travelers, live
your best life, live life, love. You'll be fine, Go
do this, eat, pray, love. It doesn't always work like that.
What is the part that gives you the most anxiety
when you're traveling on your own, Well.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
You're working in uncertainty the whole time, and that's exhausting.
So you're having to make decisions that back home I
just wrote, you know what you're going to eat for breakfast,
which way you're going to get to the office, all
of that kind of thing, and so everything requires a decision,
and decision making part of the brain is the same
part of the brain that controls anxiety, So if you
overtax that part, you get anxious. If you're anxious, you

(01:00:00):
find it really hard to make decisions. So when you're traveling,
you're in that vortex, you know, where you're constantly having
to make decisions and it's exhausting and it will make
you anxious even just for that reason. So yeah, I
suppose the loneliness can get really real as well. You're
a long, long way away and you are alone in

(01:00:22):
the world. I have terrible insomnia that comes from having
very strong sense of hearing. So I can hear a
tap dripping three suburbs away, like it's ridiculous. And so
if I've gone for three nights without sleep, I'm irascible,
I can't cope, I'm emotional. That can become really hard,
and then I get this sense that, oh my god,
there is literally nowhere in the world I can go

(01:00:43):
where I'm going to be safe and get a night's sleep.
Because you're in an airbnb that you've just paid money for,
or at a friend's house that you're stuck in or whatever,
and you like, where do I go? You become resourceful
and you have to give up on there being a
right way to do things. Yes, right, You've basically got
to become really good at what I call fending, Like

(01:01:04):
you've got to adjust and twist and turn, and after
a while you realize that that is actually a really
fun way to live.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
It's how we're meant to live.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
We are meant to be using all of our resources,
our site, our sound, our touch, our smell at all
times to survive, and most of our lives we don't
even use one of those faculties because everything's so easy.
Technology takes away all of that sport from us. So
that space of fear and being in the unknown, it's
actually where we're meant to be. We are meant to

(01:01:35):
be at our edge. We are meant to be uncomfortable.
Brene Brown said to me once, and I dropped that
in casually. We were in interviewed her and were sitting
in there just.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
A coffee shop down the road.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
I want what I'd also like to drop in casually
that we've been trying to get on the podcast, so
you can put in a good word of a grace.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Yeah, well it was kind of one of those It
was a happenstance thing, but we were sitting out in
the back of anyway, she was also saying to me,
because we worked out that we have both had a
three strikes and the actual so if I get three
signs that something's meant to happen, I go, oh shit,
I'm gonna have to do it. And she's the same,
but she said that when she feels uncomfortable, she has
this little mantra. As soon as she feels uncomfortable, apparently

(01:02:13):
she turns her wedding ring and she said, as as
this little thing to remind her, she goes, right, stuff
is starting to happen. Right, that's her little cue. She's like,
I'm uncomfortable. That means shit's happening. Okay, let's get focused here.
And I'm the same. If I'm uncomfortable, I'm right, something
real is happening. What is it that? Okay? Often you
so think you're anxious about one thing. Actually it's not,

(01:02:34):
you're excited. Anxiety and excitement have the same neural pathway
in the brain, and so you can choose to interpret
those nerves that fear as this is cool, something exciting
is happening.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
I want to get into anxiety and nerves and all
of that really soon. But one thing you did say that.
I wanted to ask, and I'm I hate that I'm
going to say this, but I find it true when
you said it's exhausting and constantly having to make the
decisions when you're try because you do have to do
everything and you do have to be very malleable. Do
you find the same thing happens to you being single
a long time? And the reason I say that is

(01:03:09):
I pride myself on being an independent person. But I'm
the first person to say when I finally after a decade,
fell into a relationship, the relief that I had someone
else to fucking do something for me, I was like, oh,
to make a decision. I was like, I don't know
what I want to do this weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
You do it?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
If the little things. I didn't have to be the
only person to make the decision anymore, and all of
a sudden, I wasn't as exhausted. You've been single fifteen years?
Do you find the same thing? Because I don't think
it has to take away from the fact that we're
not an independent woman. It doesn't make us needier. But
I definitely found that. And I didn't know what to
do with that information because I thought, why am I
so happy that someone's doing so much for me?

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
It's so valid. No, it's a very valid feeling. I
know exactly what you're talking about. Like I do have
to make those decisions constantly for myself. I can't defer.
There's a few things you can do, though, like if
you've a good network of friends, and I write about
this in the book about Anxiety, because it's actually a
really good technique. If you've got a friend who's got anxiety,
it's generally because they're making a lot of decisions, or

(01:04:09):
if you've got staff I also say this, if you've
got employees who are anxious, one of the best things
you can do is make a decision for them. So
you know, if it's a staff member, they're trying to
decide whether to do this or that, I don't know
if that's the right You get them to explain it
to you, and then you go, oh, option A is
the best I can see that you've researched that really well.
And if they go and they can get on with
their day and do a good job because that's been

(01:04:31):
taken away from them. I've got friends who know that
when I'm anxious, they ring me and go right, We're
going to the movies. Meet us on the corner at
six point thirty. We're seeing this and then we're going
to have Indian afterwards or whatever. So I've got friends
who know that about me. Like you also become a
control freak when you're single, and you're really good at
being single. You're just really good at organizing shit, and
you're the person that makes stuff happen because that's what

(01:04:53):
you've got to do. You've also then got to learn
the skill of taking a back seat and going with
the flowbody else organizes something, and I find that hard
after fifteen years. But for the same reasons you know
that you just alluded to their I need to do
it to give myself a break, and you know, just
doing a full circle back to french men.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
I love circling back to the Frenchman circle back as
much as you want.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
Yeah, the dates I've been on, I really like the
fact that they go and choose where we're going. They'll
ask me if I want red or white wine, and
then they'll ask me, you know, like, and I just
got you choose not I'll eat anything. Yep. Good. You
can find ways, but it is a really valid point
on your own, you are making twice the decisions you
really are, and you don't get that collaborative kind of

(01:05:40):
wrestle that you get in a relationship or a friendship
where you sort of go oh, backwards and forwards, backwards
and forwards. I totally get it, and then I forgive
myself for it when I get myself into like a
cluster fucky kind of space in my head where I'm
trying to work out how do I do that? Do
I stay there? You know, I've just got to all
out go, Sarah, You're doing this on your own. It's hard,
It's cool.

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
Speaking of anxiety, it is something that you've said, you know,
battle with a lot, and you've written books on it.
Just been talking about the fact that you travel the
world by yourself. You're living this single life. You're saying
that anxiety is kind of increased by uncertain circumstances.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Have you not.

Speaker 5 (01:06:16):
Created like the perfect storm totally?

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Like, have you created your own storm in a teacup?

Speaker 4 (01:06:21):
Because You're like, I want to live this really free life,
this nomadic lifestyle, but associated with that are so many unknowns.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Have you kind of thought what the helm are doing?

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:06:29):
Could you live less anxiously if you lived in the
one house, you know, up the street to where you
grew up.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
I spent many years wondering about that. And I go
back to that thing I said before, I live my
life not a oh this, but that it's a this
and that. So yes, I'm anxious and I am somebody
that needs to go to my edge. It's often goes together.
This is something again that because we've medicalized anxiety, and

(01:06:55):
we've actually anxiety only entered the DSM, which is the
big medical textbooks from which everything's diagnosed in the Western world,
and it only entered that book in nineteen eighty. Before then,
anxiety was just considered something that you do have, right,
but it wasn't a medical disorder as such. I've had
to learn from years of this, and I should just

(01:07:16):
mention I was diagnosed with bipolar when I was twenty one.
I was diagnosed with OCD sort in my late teens.
You know, this is when all these things were called
different things. Was called manic depression back then. So I've
had to surreally grapple with all of these things and
find my own ways, my own philosophies, which is why
I wrote that book First We Make the Be Beautiful,
which took seven years to write, like I had to

(01:07:37):
find a way that went beyond the medical model or
complimented it. That book is full of these kinds of reflections.
So the questions you're asking are definitely things that I've
thought about. But it's also been part of history that
it was the anxious chimps that would actually go out
and leave the group and discover new things. Right, it

(01:07:59):
was the bipolar person that when I think there's something
over that hill, and I'd go of the hill and
they'd come back and go, Guys, they've invented this thing
called the wheel, we should get onto it. So seventy
percent of poets, seventy percent of scientists are bipolar, the
ones who've won Nobel Peace Prizes and the big big prizes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Einstein had bipolar.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
Yeah, Einstein, Van Goff, Nietzsche, Winston Churchill, Virginia Wolf.

Speaker 5 (01:08:23):
Sylvia Plath. They were bipolar.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
And that's not just some kind of weird coincidence, you know,
So our culture goes, you've got one of these conditions, medicate,
try to become normal, take it easy withdraw chill.

Speaker 5 (01:08:37):
I can't even triggered.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Right, back then, it was like nut, go out there, create,
forge your head.

Speaker 5 (01:08:45):
It will be hard.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
Virginia Wolf has this great quote that just basically talks
about when you choose that life, yes it'll be perilous,
but it'll be interesting. And that's what I decided. I
decided I wanted an interesting life, and I'll suck up
the hard times. I'll suck up those lonely moments when
you're on your own making decisions and when you know that,
when you know that it's all okay, when you're soul

(01:09:09):
nerd and you learn that this is how humans have
operated for years and years, you can find some comfort
in that and keep on the path.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
I mean your book First We Make the Best Beautiful,
which was another best seller, and Mark Manson actually said
it's the best book on living with anxiety that I've
ever read. Now, Mark Manson, you all know he's been
on the podcast before, but he wrote The Subtle Art
of giving a five. Yeah, great guy, we love him.
What made you want to rewrite the narrative around anxiety?

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
I know you've just answered why you still travel with it,
but what did you want to teach other people about it?
Because I feel like you're trying to get other people
to have a different outlook on anxiety and bipolar.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
Yeah, it's a little bit part of the bipolar condition
that you actually really have this intense sense of what
is hurting humanity. Like I describe it as I can
smell it. I can smell where the ache is at,
where people's yearning is at. It's I think, why so
many poets are bipolar. There's this ability to go to
a level of connection and be able to see where

(01:10:07):
the zeitgeist is at. So I was just feeling that
a lot of people were in pain and really really
ill at ease and are feeling lonely, and so I
actually I do feel that a lot of the pain
dissipates and becomes more manageable when you feel less alone.
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:10:24):
That's essentially why I wrote it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
I write my books because I'm feeling lonely, and I
write the books to have the connection. I write books
so that I can go and do talks and podcasts
like this, you know, because it's that fijon that I'm
seeking in my life. So for selfish reasons, I do
it for that, you know. I write the books that
start the conversations that I want to have basically, and

(01:10:47):
I always write in such a way where I don't
tell people what to do. I go, look, I will
go and do the research, and I'll come back and
I'll try to report it in a way that is
easy for people because everyone's busy. I did that with
anxiety as well. I was like, this medical model business
and the whole fact that the medication was invented the
same year that it became a disease, there's something going
on there. So I'm not going to go there's a conspiracy,

(01:11:09):
because that's a waste of energy. Instead, I go, Okay,
let's just see all the bits. We've got to have
more voices, more kind of perspectives. It's not about going
that's wrong and this is right, not at all. It's about,
you know, all the gray areas and nuances. So that's
what I wanted to do. And I knew that there
was a beautiful philosophical and spiritual conversation that had been

(01:11:30):
happening for centuries around anxiety that posited it as a
beautiful thing. So first we make the beast beautiful. As
a Chinese proverb, it basically says to basically be able
to pass through something that's difficult. We've got to make
the beast beautiful. We've got to see the wonderfulness of anxiety,
the gift, the superpower, and then we can actually find
a way to modulate it and live a not just

(01:11:52):
survive with it, but thrive with it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
Sarah, you speak about the connection that you found through
writing this material, and you know how that kind of counteracted.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
With the loneliness that you've felt.

Speaker 4 (01:12:02):
I'm really interested in your romantic life because you are
such an engaging person and I look at you not
that it's important. You're a far like I, and I'm like,
surely these men are, like I know you've said twenty
one of them didn't show up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
You've been single for fifteen years.

Speaker 4 (01:12:21):
Is that because you haven't felt like you've found someone
that you connect with on like a mental level.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
That's a beautiful question. I suppose it would have to
be that. I mean, we make jokes about my bar
being super low and all of that kind of thing,
But look, the bottom line is, as you get older,
you want your life to get better, right like, otherwise
why would you bother so? And our lives do get better,
Our lives get better and sheer years on the planet
is sometimes the cure to many things. So my life

(01:12:48):
has got better and better, and I want to be
met right by somebody. I want to meet someone and
they're good at some things that are better than me.
But you know, one way or another, we're seeing life
at the same level. So if my life gets better,
that level gets higher and higher. So it does actually
mean there's less and less people who can match with me,
you know. Yeah, So I suppose that my standards have

(01:13:11):
got higher as I've got older. They're probably reasonably high,
but they're not what I think maybe some people would expect.
Like I don't look for looks, I don't look for money,
I don't like That's the other thing about getting older,
You don't care about any of that kind of thing.
You know, you get more specific, but it's actually more
open and more real. I'm looking for someone who's got
real vibrancy and has got a real zest for.

Speaker 5 (01:13:32):
Life, and they're really good at their thing. I want
to be able to admire them.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
I think women's the basis for female love and connection
is they've got to admire a man. So yeah, I
suppose that's probably it, and I probably never been prepared
to compromise in those wrong ways.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Yeah, I think you should though, hmmm, I completely agree
that what you want and what you look for in
person changes as you get older, because it becomes more
of a how somebody makes you feel and what they
add to your life, And I don't mean a monetary
ad but your soul, how they fill your cup. Do
you think that there's a level of people that you've
dated because you are? I mean, you're extremely successful. We
often speak about the fact that a lot of men

(01:14:12):
do find it quite intimidating when a woman is more successful,
is more confident, can hold her own earns more. And also,
as Kisha mentioned before, you're hot as fuck. Do you
think that there are as a level of men they
are intimidated? And maybe that is why you haven't found
your penguin.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
Yeah, penguin or unicorn?

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Yeah, mythical creature.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
I think that's certainly it. And men do say to me,
you're too intimidating, And I say, am I too intimidating?
Or am I just intimidating? And you're not prepared to
rise because it's a really boring story, Like I'm bored
by that story. I'm being really honest here, I don't
mean to sound flippant or arrogant, but I'm really bored
of that storyline. Like, you know, men used to kind of,

(01:14:56):
I don't know, hack their way through brambles and climb towers, right,
that must have been intimidating. It's like rise lift if
you want to, you know, if you're kind of hovering
around me and hovering in my.

Speaker 5 (01:15:06):
Stories, like just kind of find a way.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
I think men are also Again we're generalizing, but I
think men are very lost. They don't know what their
role is, and I think it's a really hard adjustment.
We've had decades and even generations, multi generations of women
fighting to redefine the stereotypes or at least free up
the stereotypes.

Speaker 5 (01:15:29):
Men haven't had.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
That movement, and they haven't got good leaders. I mean,
Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson is it, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:15:36):
And so they're not seeing how they.

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
Can actually be the good men that can rise and
just be themselves. I mean every woman would say, no,
we don't expect them to do this, No, no, they've
got it all wrong. We don't. We just want them
to be just cool, Just be cool in yourself, have gumption,
have vibrants, you have fire in your belly. Like that's it.

Speaker 5 (01:15:55):
That's all it takes to be a good human.

Speaker 4 (01:15:57):
I feel like I was in a similar place really recently,
and I talk about it all the time of how
I was dating kind of with the purpose of the
you know, I wasn't looking to fill a gap. I
wasn't looking to fill a void. I didn't need them
to do anything to fill my life. Like I had
a really good job. I love my work life, I
love my friendships. And I don't know if that actually

(01:16:19):
made it a little bit harder to date because I
wasn't looking for someone to kind of just feel the time,
like totally.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
I mean, I think we get to that point when
you're younger. And I know I'm not saying it's everyone
at different ages, but it's something that I have realized
with age, and I know you'd have two kish, but
it's when you're younger, you're more open to dating anybody
for any reason, and you're more likely to want someone
just to fill a hole and to be company. But
as you get older, and this is what we both
started to do, is date for a purpose, and the

(01:16:48):
purpose is you have high expectations of your partner and
what they bring to the relationship, and you want them
to add something. I didn't want to date anyone anymore
for the sake of it. You had to really be
bringing something to the table and meeting me at a
certain level. And I think the idea of dating with
a purpose is amazing. I think when you get to
a point where you don't have to just fill a
hole with someone that doesn't actually add anything, it's a

(01:17:11):
really cool place to be.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
Yeah, I was looking for someone not just bringing their
plate to the table, you know, like not.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
You wanted it full of like a roast.

Speaker 4 (01:17:18):
I was just like I wanted something I actually like
I remember saying to you, I want someone who inspires me,
and not inspires me in a weird like muse kind
of way.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
I wanted someone to inspire.

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
Me to like do better in the other aspects of
my life as well and kind of add to my
life in that way.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
There's a fine line, though, isn't there because you don't
want to rely on it. But I think there's a
lovely sweet spot that you need to find where you're inspired. Regardless.
You can be inspired by sunsets, whatever, but to have
someone in your life, I want to look at them
across the room. And I remember I had a boyfriend
from when I was twenty one to twenty eight, and
he was awesome and I would watch him. He was

(01:17:57):
He owned a restaurant that I worked in. He was
a bit older than me, and he.

Speaker 5 (01:18:01):
Would just walk around the room and make everyone feel good.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
He could walk into a room and make everyone. I went,
I just looked at him one night and I went, oh,
my god, you're fucking awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:18:10):
Now, this guy he had a mullet and a rat's tail.

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
He was five inches shorter than me, and people would
look at us and go, what, how did the two
of you work together? Yeah, but it was that you
know where you just go, oh my god, you're fucking awesome.
I'm happy for you to be on the other side
of the room. I'm looking at you, and I'm just
feeling like, what a joy, what a privilege just to
know you? You know, That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
I did want to ask you something about not having children.
Is not having children for you, Sarah, childless by choice?
Or was it a situation that you found yourself in
or did life just not seem to go that way?

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
It was a combination of all three. To be honest,
I think it is for almost every woman. Really, There's
not that many people that say, I definitely don't want children,
that's the end of it. Like there's always going to
be that niggle, even if it's societal pressure. I was
told I couldn't have kids when I was thirty four.
It was part of that Hashimoto's diagnosis, and turns out
it was wrong. So I then approached having relationships in

(01:19:06):
a particular way, which I think may have contributed to
me being single, which was like, well, a man's not
gonna want me right because I can't have.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
Kids, yeah, which is a crazy thought now, which I'm
sure you know.

Speaker 5 (01:19:16):
Yeah, well kind of turned out to be true.

Speaker 4 (01:19:19):
That's something that a lot of women do it, particularly
when you're like in your later thirties and you're kind
of approaching that quote unquote biological clock. It's like, oh shit,
my currency is declining.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
Over various years, kind of stuck two fingers up to that,
and when I am going to own this life. So
if I don't have children, I'm gonna live like a motherfucker,
Like I'm going to be single women with no kids,
I'm gonna be the post to child for it. I'm
gonna make it look really fun. That's basically what I did.
I went, I am just going to Max. I'm gonna
do all the things that women who you know, got

(01:19:51):
children can't do, not to stick it up to them
by anything, but just to kind of stick it up
to that expectation, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:19:57):
So there was there was certainly that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:58):
But then it turns out at forty I was seeing
this guy and I got pregnant, and that little one
she I got mercury poisoning and she died. And then
I had four more pregnancies, all of which happened the
first time. So by the time I had my last
pregnancy was forty six, and it was all by natural causes.
Like literally an ex boyfriend, like an ex fling from

(01:20:21):
ten years.

Speaker 5 (01:20:21):
Earlier, went oh, i'll get your pregnant.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
I don't want have anything to do with the kid,
blah blah, And I got me ad sex once and
I got pregnant. I went to I went to Greece
and bought sperm from a twenty one year old poet
in Denmark and got it mailed. She sent to me, you.

Speaker 5 (01:20:39):
Got it, fight away fright away, because by this.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Stage I got too old to get in Australia. If
you're over I think it's forty two. I think it was.
You can't use a sperm donor in Australia as a
single woman. You can as a married woman. It's so terrible.

Speaker 4 (01:20:55):
Do they have a justification for that, like a medical justification?

Speaker 3 (01:20:58):
Well, I think it's cost to the healthcare system. You're
a single woman, and there's risks involved and so on.

Speaker 4 (01:21:05):
So forarth that makes twenty two year old women that
have worked for their whole adult life are fine, actually
a lot more stable than.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
And probably committed.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Okay, let's not get too angry. Let's go back to that.
Let's get back to the Greek poet. I'm back to
the Greek poet.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
And I decided not to get angry and go to
Greece and get the situation sorted. And so it was
literally a Turkey based you know thing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
How did you find him? Did you just put like
an ad out in the paper looking for poet sperm?

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
Well, there's his websites, right, There's these websites where you
can go in and you just scour.

Speaker 5 (01:21:36):
It's like a dating app, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
And this guy was really sweet. His mother's best friend
couldn't have children or couldn't find a partner, and she
used a sperm donut, and so he just went, when
I grow up, you know, that's what I want to do.
And he rowne his little thing. He said, I don't
have much money because I'm studying and I'm poet, and
so one thing I can do is give away my sperm.
So anyway, I got pregnant that way straight away, and
it was a point one percent chance at my age

(01:22:00):
and with that technique. So I've been very, very lucky
in that sense. But that little one, she tied herself
in a knot at three months. And I write about
this story in my latest book, This One, Wild and
Precious Life, because that motherhood story is a thread that
travels through the book, along with the hiking stories, along
with saving the planet, which is no I had to

(01:22:21):
find ways to make that climate story kind of sexy
and approachable unreal for people anyway. So in the end,
and I'm open about this, I finally got pregnant to
this X having sex once I was forty six, and
I got very very sick, and I was fostering kids
by this stage, I had a little foster girl with me,

(01:22:42):
and I was super sick. My bipolar flared up, my
hashimotos flared up. I was not sleeping, I couldn't function,
I was going mad, and I went, oh my god,
I'm going to be having to do this on my own.
And I realized I would not be able to do
the other work that I was doing. So my anxiety
book was doing well, and I realized some people, my dama,

(01:23:02):
my reason for being here was actually to do broader things,
to go out into the world, and I knew I
couldn't do it, and I wound up terminating the pregnancy.
Very hard decision. It's hard to sort of explain it,
but I write about it and the reasoning and all
the stuff that went on instead of the final second

(01:23:23):
last chapter of the book. If anyone wants to flip
to that bit, if they've ever been in that position
and want to sort of find out how somebody else
dealt with it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
Yeah, I'm sure you've helped many people by writing about that,
and I'm sorry to hear I mean it sounds like
a very tumultuous journey. I want to do something we've
never done in the history of life. I cart in
four hundred episodes, we have never finished an episode with
an accidentally unfiltered gosh, we forgot an embarrassing story. We
start every single episode with an embarrassing story. But I
have never met somebody that speaks as intelligently. You're so articular,

(01:23:55):
you speak so well, and you have so much to
talk about that we got into this chat for it started.
But I'm not letting you get off scott free because
for some reason, I feel like you have so many
good stories. Give us an embarrassing story.

Speaker 5 (01:24:09):
Please, Oh gosh, I actually I do have many.

Speaker 3 (01:24:12):
It sort of defines my life. Leana, who works with me,
she went, oh my god, Sarah, which one are you
gonna choose? Because she just my whole life is just
a tripping over myself.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Which week week do you want to choose it from it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:24:24):
That's it. I've got one from ages ago, and it
really speaks to what we were talking about before about
different body images for different eras. So when I was sixteen,
I got literally stopped in a shopping mall and asked
to like with a polaroid camera like modeling competition, and
so I got called back. I got a little letter
of still got my letter. So remember when Grace Brothers

(01:24:45):
was around, it was called we used to call it GBS.
GB's was the teenage that section. So I was Miss
Gv's competition, and quite a few models who went on
to become Dolly cover girls and stuff came through this competition.
So anyway, I got selected, and so there was the
big day at the shopping mall and I lived in
the country and I didn't own a dress, so I
had to borrow Danielle Ferns dress from school, and she

(01:25:06):
was a bit bigger than me. So I sat there
like sewing in the scenes. I had a pair of
sports store brogues that had split the souls and my
dad Arrol dieded them and put them on the gas
heater overnight.

Speaker 5 (01:25:16):
And I had slouched socks, and all the other girls were.

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
Wearing black tube dresses with their hair flicked on one side,
and they looked like that simply irresistible film clip. I
don't know if you know that. Yeah, anyway, I was
just going with bohemian chic, well ahead of my time.

Speaker 5 (01:25:33):
Anyway, I was super skinny, and back then it was.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
The end of the eighties and it was all about,
like I mentioned before, full of figures, boobs.

Speaker 5 (01:25:41):
Like Kardashian era type stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
And it was only a few years later that the
heroin chic look came in and it was to do
with the recession. So it was still opulent times, accepting
my life because we lived on a subsistence living farm,
and so my dad and my brothers drove me in
and I did this thing. And what I used to
do at school was put little bits of toilet paper,
like I'd fold it up and i'd put it in

(01:26:05):
the side of my underpants to make me look like
I had hips, and I'd do that, but wear jeans, right,
So I'd put it into the pockets of my jeans
and then i'd washed them and dry it in the sun.
So I had paper mache hips.

Speaker 4 (01:26:22):
You did a bbl out of paper mash before it
was a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
So I'm wearing a dress though, with them tucked into
my underpants, and I had safety pinned them to sort
of like these chunky hip things. And I'm walking down
the catwalk and literally if they show us how to
do a little spin at the end, and I do
my little spin and I walk out and toilet paper
drops out right at the end of the catwalk, and
of course people.

Speaker 5 (01:26:47):
Are wondering where did that come from?

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
And my dad sees it, and he's at the back
and he yells at you, little beauty, and I'm just like,
I just had to I just had to scamper back
behind the curtain and just went into feed all position.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
I'm so here for this.

Speaker 3 (01:27:03):
Yeah, So that that was quite embarrassing, because that was
when I used to get embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
Well, most people put it down their top right. Most
people are like, I'm going to give myself boobs. I've
never ever heard of a woman that has paper mashed hips. Sarah,
You're an absolute dream boat. Thank you so much for
joining us and taking some time out of your very
busy dating schedule in Paris to come on the podcast today.
Where can everyone find you? That was super fun, not
in Paris, but like online, you know, don't give out

(01:27:29):
your address.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
I've got a podcast called Wild with Sarah Wilson, and
I interviewed people who've got wild ideas. And then I've
got a substack. Oh, you can go to Sarah Wilson
dot com at all be there. But I've got a
substack if you just google Sarah Wilson's substack. That's where
I do most of my interaction, my writing three times
a week.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
I really enjoy your newsletter.

Speaker 4 (01:27:47):
So for anyone everyone who listens to Lifelin caut whenever
I jump on, we just seem to talk to one
of our guests that I've read their newsletter, and I
must sound like I'm always you read a lot of newsletters.
I really enjoy it. It's very nuanced conversation. It's truly like,
it's very different to the majority of blog posts that
I read.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
It often makes me go.

Speaker 4 (01:28:07):
Yeah, that's a really thought provoking thing.

Speaker 5 (01:28:09):
Lovely chatting with you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
You guys know that we never finished an episode without
our suck and our sweet a highlight and our low
light each and every week. Kisha, you need to be
in on this one because you have been in on
the whole episode. What has been your suck for the week?

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
I got bitten by a tick?

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
I think they bury into you and make a home.
So I think you said you say, my body became
a vessel.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
For a tick and borrow it into your a parasite.

Speaker 4 (01:28:31):
I think it was because I took Delilah to some
different places in different parts.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
What like, I thought you only got ticks if you'd
been like foraging around in the bush.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
You can get tis in around Bonda in the bushes. Yeah,
we going to the bush with Dayilah. We're adventures.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
Why are you? Why are you hanging out in the bushes?

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
We play hide and seeking the bush. We hide from
Delilah and we go in the bush.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
Okay, that's a dog actually, very wholesome, Laura, Okay, I'll
not have you mocking our games. Do you know what
it is? It's because Delilah runs off into the bush
and you have to go in and her.

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
No, it's proper hind seek. You have to find a
different hind sick and her favorite thing is to try
and find.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
You cute, fucking weird, which is true.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
But yeah, no, I got a tick.

Speaker 4 (01:29:12):
It was in a really weird spot because I've been
wearing sleeves because it's been cold. But it was on
my shoulder and my new boyf he found it, and
he wasn't wearing his glasses when he tried to pull
it out, so he kind of pulled out half.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
Of it, which I know you're not supposed to do.
You're supposed to like put the vaseline.

Speaker 4 (01:29:25):
On it, and then he got the other half out
a bit later, And now I've got this massive lump
on my arm and I don't know how long it's
going to hang around for, and I'm worried that I've
been poisoned by this tick. Also, the suck was that
I was petrified that Delilah was going to get a
tick while you were away, because there's like an added
level of stress if it happened.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
What kill my dog and you're out.

Speaker 2 (01:29:44):
Also, if you've got a tick, there's a good chance
she could get a tick. Yeah, So I was waping
a better place for a tick to go than on
a human's arm.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
Can She messaged me, She's like, I think I got
a tick when I was out with Dailah. I was like,
check the dog immediately, and I was like, oh, but
also hope you're okay.

Speaker 4 (01:29:59):
But Jelilah's had her anti tick stuff, so I think
she's all good.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
I did check her over.

Speaker 4 (01:30:02):
So that was my suck for the week, which is sweet,
super gross, But I am meeting the boyfriend's parents, so
big step in my relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
It's not gross.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
It's cute, although I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
A little nervous and I feel like it's been a
while since I'd been nervous to meet someone. Could feel
like that's kind of part of our job.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
But nervous and you're nervous because you like him?

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
All right, what is your suck?

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
My sucking is big, cool, big cool. Don't have one.
I had a really brilliant week. I cannot fault my
week at the moment because I'm very happy Benny's here,
and I just feel like you also are going to
vomit in your mouth. My life is complete. That just
made myself sick. I'm really happy that he's here and

(01:30:46):
we had a great weekend. I actually just don't have
a suck. My sweet was Hamilton Island. Like we've talked
about it. I don't have to talk about it again.
But I just had an amazing weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
I think it's fair. I think if you'd gone to
Hamilton Island and then you were like, my suck is
is that my coffee was? I would have to smack
you in the head. So I'm glad that you came
with this with a little bit of good perspective. Also
glad that Ben is here and you're very happy, all right.
My suck for the week is that Matt went for
a twenty one kilometer run yesterday. He ran four minute
and thirty splits amazing, Like he absolutely smashed it. But

(01:31:17):
then he ran so hard that he came home and
then had to go to bed for the entire day
because he ran so far and he ran so fast.
But this wasn't like it wasn't a organized run, like
he wasn't on a half marathon. He just got off.

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
He's a half marathon distance though. I saw his strav
A post very impressive it ye oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
But he woke up on Saturday morning and went, hey, babe,
do you mind if I go for a run? Came
home four hours later and couldn't get out of bed
for the rest of the day. And I was like,
I didn't subscribe to this. When you said can I
go for a run on the day that we mutually
had the kids? I was like, yeah, sure, think in
an hour. I wasn't thinking the entire day even. He

(01:31:56):
was like, to be fair, that was pretty bad.

Speaker 1 (01:31:58):
Sorry, And so you're telling me he did that, and
you still gave him a blow job the day before I.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
Gave him a blow job, and then he punished going
for four hour run.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
No know what, though, very.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
Impressive time, Matt, Yeah, listening, Look, I'm impressed.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
That's irrelevant. That's not that we're missing the point.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
He wasn't gone for four hours. He was gone for
an hour and thirty nine minutes. I saw his time stand. Yeah,
which makes me question why he was gone for so long.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
We were the other three hours.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
Yeah, he's really into his running at the moment, and
I'm super proud of him because he's getting really, really good.
But he pushes himself so hard that he literally spent
the rest of the afternoon in bed, which you know, look,
you can't do. If that's the worst thing he's going
to do, I would much rather Matt run so hard
that he has to go to bed, then go and
spend all day at the pub and not come home.

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
So next weekend you go to the gym and then
come home and say, maybe I just push myself.

Speaker 4 (01:32:43):
So hard all said, I've got to sleep for the
rest of the day and then just see what happened.
To be fair, I mean, that is exactly what I
did to him. For seven and a half weeks with
Dancing with the stars.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
I disagree. I do not think those two are the
same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Pretty similar anyway, Look, Matt's not my suck. He's brilliant,
but his running of twenty one kilometers is my suck.
And then my sweet for the week is My seat
of the week was mandarin picking in the backyard with
the girls. It was so wholesome, it was so cute.
They had the freaking best time. And like, this sounds
so dumb, but we have this huge mandarin tree in
our yard. Last year, the yield was not good. They

(01:33:17):
were so sour and you couldn't fucking eat them. We
didn't even know what they were. And then this because
it was like the rain that never stopped. And this
year it's like perfect climate and the mandarins are good
and we have a million mandarins our yard.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
You know what I thought when I saw your posts,
I actually was going to google it. I was like,
is there like a mandarin cake or something you can make?
Because you know oranges, there's so much you can do it,
But I feel like mandarins. I think you can do jam.
You could make something out of it because you've got hundreds.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
Yeah, but I'm not going.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
To Slora make us some jam.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
Make the jam. If you guys want me to bring
you mandarins and you make yourselves jam, I'm all for that.
But anyway, guys, that is it from us. If you
love the episode, jump on leave a review on Apple
Podcasts that you can also join us on the socials
It's Life Uncut podcast on Instagram TikTok and then also
you can join our discussion group which is Life Uncut
Discussion Group on Facebook.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
Don't forget to you mum too, dadte dot do friends
and share a love because we love love

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