Be Well Health and Wellness Studio | Madeleine Winfeld - Anchor Your Dreams

Episode Transcript
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Meghan (00:00):
So before we get into your expertise, I'd love it if you can share

(00:04):
more about what your journey has beenlike to get to where you are now, today.
Has there been any roadblocks, mentalbarriers at the start of your journey?

Madeleine (00:19):
Yes, , gone through a fair amount of health challenges in my
day that actually led me to wantingto be in the line of work I am.
To begin with, when I went, I wasscheduled to go to massage therapy school.
That was the beginning ofmy educational journey.
And I, Actually was dealing at thetime with a very rare and unusual form

(00:42):
of psoriasis called pustule psoriasisthat came with a lot of nerve pain.
And unfortunately in my case,it was on the base of my foot.
So I couldn't walk for almostsix months, four months.
I ended up getting a very fun ring thatactually had my leg, not weight bearing.
So I couldn't movearound, but it was huge.

(01:04):
Like I'd been saving for massageschool for years and was all set to go.
And that was very.
Cut down from this inability towalk and it's autoimmune psoriasis.
So when you're intellectuallyadvising that and realizing it's
your own body attacking yourself.
I mean, I have another one, , vitiligo,which is a pigment, where your

(01:27):
body stops producing pigmentin certain areas of your body.
I'm very lucky in my face.
It's just here.
It's symmetrical.
Cool.
It's not that noticeable, it's verytan, it kind of glows, but it almost
looks like a makeup highlighter, so.
And I'm blessed in that, it hasn't grown.
So, when I developed psoriasis, that'sthe second, oh my gosh, my body.

(01:51):
It's taking itself down.
So that was a huge journey in healingmy gut, healing my emotional system
to realize why that was happening.
Dealing with a lot of family traumaand wasn't actually able to go to
massage school not too long later.
I just had to defer,basically a semester.
So since it was starting inJanuary, I started in September,

(02:13):
but, so that was great.
Yeah.
Coming in with a whole new sense ofgratitude for my ability to move.

Meghan (02:20):
The way that you started your journey into even the health going through
your own experience, , with yourself.
I could only imagine what that feltlike to then be taking some education
to turn around and help others andtaking your life experience that you
just went through going into that.

Madeleine (02:40):
It was really helpful.
And in my case, it was not the first.
Chapter of that injury story, I hadbroken my tailbone as a 16 year old,
jumping off a very high cliff into water.
I had injured it in the past snowboardingand falling on ice, but this so I
wasn't paying for five years withthat and like, that was kind of the

(03:04):
beginning of the health journey.
I guess I needed a few to reallylearn the lesson and build the
empathy for my clients now as well.

Meghan (03:13):
Oh, wow.
What a great way to frame it aswell as taking something that you've
experienced, which brought you pain anda lot of years of dealing with things.
I could only imagine not justphysically, but mentally as well.
And taking that and seeing that thatwas enabling you to bring empathy

(03:35):
into your practice and journeyof working in the health and
working with other people as well.

Madeleine (03:42):
Absolutely.
I think it's really hard tointellectualize chronic pain
until you've experienced it.
The neurological grading that happensfrom pain that keeps on going and
keeps on going and even being a personwho's not suffering with it now, I
forget like your body wants to forget.
I still get in touch with thatsometimes when I'm supporting others.

(04:05):
Yeah.
And people have a short attention spanfor your pain, like people are very
supportive for whatever it would be,two weeks, two months, you know, even
the people we love, but move on, right?
As they should, right?
They have their own stuff going on.

Meghan (04:23):
It's so very true and I've gone through my own journey of pain as well
as, I would seem like, like a barelyat all offender, but like nothing to
them, but I was dealing with so muchpain back pain and it took years.
And even to this day, Ican, do something.

(04:46):
And then days later, you'rewhy, where is that coming from?
What did I do?
And that is often the questionthat I ended up asking myself.
It's not like what happened, whatdid I do to bring the pain back?
so I totally, and I can relateto also the people around us.

(05:08):
They move on.
They want to move on.
They don't like seeing a lot ofpeople that care about us as well,
don't like seeing us in pain.
It makes them uncomfortable and theywant just as much for it to be fixed
for you, but also for them too.

Madeleine (05:25):
It's true.
It's so true.
One of my dearest friends hasbeen suffering with multiple
concussions over the last 10 years.
And like, I find myself kindof moving on from her pain.
And it breaks my heart to say that Ilove her so much, but like, I forget.
And it's a year, especially thehead injuries, like it's years.
And it's,

(05:47):
Yeah.
I don't remember.
Keep supporting her where she's atand like, don't move on from it.

Meghan (05:55):
Well, and that's the thing, we're all human, and we do things
not just because of, you know, the waythat we were raised or anything like
that, but we do choose to do thingsbecause of what we also ourselves
need in those present moments as well.
I could imagine that a lot oftimes when other people are in
pain, it can be triggering as well.

(06:18):
You might not feel it or like know thatthat's where it's coming from, but just.
Something to, to also remember formyself, that's something that I have
to remember when other people, hurttheir back or say that their back hurts.
Sometimes it can be alittle bit triggering.
Right, of course.
And sometimes we get ourlittle should hats on, right?

(06:40):
But are you doing this?
And are you doing that?
Are you doing yourselfwell enough for my desires?
Yeah, yeah, those should hats.
How are we to likeproject them out on them?
Yes, exactly.
So it sounds like, you have hadsome barriers and some roadblocks.
Now, You started going to school andwhat did that look like for you as

(07:03):
far as getting into self employment?

Madeleine (07:07):
Well, so I finished massage school and what's really
wonderful about massage school inour province is they're so prepared.
Like they just set you up so well fornot just conditions and dealing with
everything in that regard, but alsounderstanding the business side and
understanding, basically how to navigate.

(07:27):
So I felt very supported in that way.
Another thing that I've hit, and thisis kind of an interesting element that's
unusual, is right after I finished massageschool, while I was waiting to write
board exams, I got bit by a rattlesnake.
Yeah, which for everybody, there'sno rattlesnakes on the island.
They're in the Okanagan,and they're hand loops.

(07:50):
Is that where it happened?
Yes.
And I was told by poison control,it's about one person a year in
the province, It's extremely rare.
So it's not a reason to be scaredof the Okanagan or to feel like
one needs to be prepared for that.
It's just a freak thing to happen.
So I know that that causes a very visceralfear for some people when they hear that.

(08:10):
It's super rare.

Meghan (08:14):
So this happened right at, before your exams?
Yeah.
So before your exams?

Madeleine (08:19):
Which are notoriously late, known to be
challenging those exams as well.
Like there's a decent fail rate.
Wow.
So how did you come back from thathappening and getting to writing
your exams and finishing, likeactually getting through everything?
Yeah, it was pretty bad.
I was in the ICU for five days.
They almost, like they talkedto me about amputating my foot.

(08:41):
The big vein, uh, sorry, the bigartery in our leg, femoral artery, the
femoral vein got quite significantlyburnt down, so thin and friable, so
it was, it was a whole process.
Like the size of my leg was inchessmaller than my other for a time,
just the atrophy from that injury.
What I didn't know at the time.

(09:02):
And my loved ones kept from mewas that I was actually not always
speaking correctly and I washaving like neurological fogginess.
Not to the degree of, like, I couldobviously communicate and speak, but
there was just a little bit of gapshappening, which is not great when you
have to write a complicated, stupid test.

(09:23):
Yeah, I mean, I took lotsof supplements and tried to
support myself the best I could.
I didn't really support a partner.

Meghan (09:28):
And this was after you came out of the hospital, this
is what they were noticing.
Was, was it shared withyou that this could be it?

Madeleine (09:36):
It didn't.
I mean, no one wanted toscare me for my tests.
So people kind of told me afterthat, like, Oh yeah, some of what
you were saying was nonsensical.

Meghan (09:46):
So you did your tests.
I did my tests.
I want to back up here because Ithink this is an important thing.
You were going through some stuff.
This is an exams thathas a high fail rate.
You yourself are notat your optimum health.
No.
And then you did your, these exams.

(10:07):
Four of them, for exams.
Yeah.
Okay.
And
How did you do?

Madeleine (10:14):
Well, I passed them.
Two of you get results, two of youdon't, you just get a pass or fail.
I mean, I passed them.
So, yeah.
It was funny when I went to domy scientific written, which was
actually with my whole class,because it's, uh Rattlesnake t shirt?
Not on purpose!
I mean, obviously my classmates did,but, you know, it's like a smudge.

(10:36):
Right.
It was funny, but, yeah.
Well, you had
a good laugh.
It was funny, yeah.
Oh, that's good.
That's good.

Meghan (10:45):
That's incredible.
Were you, so after everyone was tellingyou about that, how did that make you
feel, looking back at doing the exams?

Madeleine (10:55):
Well, I feel very proud of myself for having it.
Successfully done them.
I also, I remember on, because I hadbeen on a walk when this happened, and
I remember in the walkout thinking aboutboards because I was That's all I was
doing at the time was thinking aboutboards and it really actually trivialized
them in a nice way because when I wasin it, you kind of live and breathe it,

(11:18):
it's really kind of intense program.
So it was like, okay, itdoesn't actually really matter.
Like if I fail these and I writethem in six months, whatever.
So it kind of took the pressure offme a little bit, which was good.
I also had to take out the excuse.
I think that helps actuallymy mental health, um, at the

(11:40):
time of just knowing it's okay.
And it's not really a reflectionof myself if I don't pass this
because before that it would havebeen a giant ego hit if that had

Meghan (11:53):
I like this, where this, this is going, because I think that when we put
so much pressure on ourselves like that.
And we start to put our worth inthese, whether it's an education
piece, and everything, even if it'ssomething that we're passionate about
and, and we know that we're doing itbecause We're following our heart.

(12:18):
That other sort of pressure that weput on ourselves is often related
to something societal or familial.
And, you came to a place where you wereable to release that pressure and you
still were able to make it through that.
Yeah.
And pass.
Yeah.
And do the thing that you setout to do, even without all of

(12:41):
that extra pressure on yourself.
And there's a word that, there'sa word that I, think of when you
were saying that and it's surrender.
It was
surrendering, not just to yourself.
But also just to, the outcome likedetaching and just surrendering to

(13:05):
whatever was going to happen for youin that moment in time in your life
was just, you're going to let it happenand see what was going to come of it
later and make some choices after.
Yeah, that's, that's a beautifulway to even sit with things
I think personally my.
My experience in life, whenever I'veallowed myself to surrender so much,

(13:32):
other things come and just open up.
It's like a, it's almost like an opening,like you're surrendering to something,
but the way that I even visualize it, it'slike the heart just opens to so much more.
Yeah.

Madeleine (13:46):
The older I get, the more just like, where can I soften?
I mean, I would use the instead ofsurrender, but I like surrender too.
And I, Clearly hand in hand.
It's like, where can wesurrender and soften?
And my brother recently has graduatedfrom massage school and done his sports
and I was helping him study recently.

(14:07):
And uh, it was interesting to seemy process through it and just
how much, I was like, please justtake time for yourself and like
be grounded and be soft and like.
It's not the grind.
Like sometimes
it's the grind.
Right.
But definitely sometimes it's the grind.

Meghan (14:25):
Now going back, like talking about that, you were saying that,
the schooling and everything,
they're really good at helping youset up, not just for the health
and wellness in massage, butalso the business side of things.
So going to that word grinding, didyou feel like to, were you, did you

(14:46):
start your own practice like rightafter, or did you work for somebody?
What did you do as far as.
That journey for self employment andtying in the word grinding and hassling.
Did you start to feel like youhad to do that to gain clients?

Madeleine (15:01):
You know, um, I started working at a massage therapy clinic
in the Valley, shortly after I hadfinished and got my board results.
So I had a wonderful woman who Irented space from, who was very
much a mentor and very much wasthere to answer all the questions.
And it wasn't a lot of a grind for me.

(15:22):
I started working a good time,which was the beginning of December.
And we tend to, in all of thesedisciplines, like massage and physio and
chiro, be extremely busy in that time.
People are trying to get thelast of their benefits in.
It's just common that you're kindof packed November, December.
So it was a good time to beginbecause so many people are

(15:44):
just trying to find a spot.
So I was lucky in that thatwas the timing lined up.
The woman I worked for happenedto have clients, more clients
than she could work with.
So she was able to hand off to me.
So it was fairly gentle process.
That, happened for me inthat way, and then COVID hit.

(16:06):
So I've been working, yeah,the December until March 16th.

Meghan (16:13):
Everything goes down.
Wow.
So what did that look likefor you to transition?
Did you have to just stop?

Madeleine (16:21):
We had to stop, yeah.
So, when the whole world stopped,whatever that was, 10 weeks, I think.
Was we were kind of in the firstline of allowed to come back.
So I think it was 10 weeks,but you didn't know, right.
We didn't know it was going tobe 10 weeks when that started.
And obviously social distancingis not something that was

(16:43):
doable in this line of work.
Completely opposite.
It was a lot when we came back.
There would be people who had notbeen around anybody for that 10 weeks.
And we were kind of thefirst line of reconnection.
And so, yeah, theemotional load of that was.
Significant, space for those peopleand the fear that they had even coming

(17:05):
but needing to come and all of that.
Super grateful that I got tobe one of the first lines back.

Meghan (17:11):
And I could just imagine like you having gone through things yourself.
Being creating this very safe space forthese people to come back into having, you
know, the empathy that you gain throughall your own experiences and going through
things and feeling scared along the wayyourself through different times, that

(17:32):
that also just played a huge role inpeople coming back and you opening back
up your practice for doing, what you loveto do and what you're passionate about.
So what did it look like then when youcame back, did a lot of the same clients?
Was it, were you reaching out?
Did you feel like you had toreach out to people or people
were just slowly trickling

Madeleine (17:54):
I mean, we had sent out a mass information to the client load
from the clinic that I worked at.
Some didn't come back for a while.
Mostly people who were compromisedin some way, we didn't feel like
that was a safe choice for them.
I wouldn't say that was a huge number.
Most people were pretty desperateto come back at that point.

(18:16):
I mean, that was before we werewearing masks and things like
that as well, we still don't knowexactly the mechanism of that virus.
Yeah, it was fairly seamless.
I mean, work was a little slower throughthat time, but we just needed each other.
And I think people coming to a safe placewhere they knew that all of us were taking

(18:41):
our health seriously and their healthseriously in whatever form that was.
But so it was a safe place.
People could come and feelconnection and feel touch.
So I was very honored.

Meghan (18:53):
And on the, self employment side of things.
It sounds like you also had great support,with your mentor and, how did that help
you having that support, sort of inhouse getting through all of these things?

Madeleine (19:07):
I experienced that a few times when I was younger, I was, you
know, What kind of got me really seeingthat this was the line of work for me
was I was a receptionist at a wellness,wellness clinic in Vancouver, and I
got to kind of know all the modalities.
I got to see how the acupuncturistswork and the naturopaths and the massage
therapists and see their day to day.

(19:28):
And the woman who ran thatclinic was incredible.
And I was young at the 19 and I justremember watching her, you and I grow up.
So I had her and then I had.
The next woman I worked forand all of these women were
just so supportive, so giving.
It was never about you're workingfor me and these are my clients.

(19:52):
It was always, you dowhat's right for you.
If you want to leave,you bring your clients.
We're all going to support each other.
And it really showed me that that's whoI would want to be in the future as well.
It's like we can lift each other up.
It's not about the needinessor like stickiness.
Which I get to get into our fear andwe get into our, I'm really grateful.

(20:14):
I was mirrored by somereally incredible women.

Meghan (20:18):
Which is like, that's part of the reason why I also
wanted to do this podcast.
And why I came to this realization justlast fall that this is what I had to do.
This is where I had to direct my energybecause with all the social media,

(20:38):
sense of Competing
and not, not just innocent, likenot in the same industry, someone
competing with somebody else, butcompeting for people's attention,
competing, in a space where connections.
Are just based on a few second reel.

(20:59):
So for me, what I wanted to do was bringa deeper level through conversation and
hearing people's stories because I thinkthat's such an important piece that
people miss out on through social media.
And as much as we have websites and we putall of our about us on websites, so many

(21:22):
people are still looking at social mediaas like, where can I find this person?
Where can, if I need a massagetherapist, okay, I'll, I'll look
on Instagram or I'll look over hereand see what might come up for me.
Unless of course there's referralsthat are, being given in person.
So for me, it was, it was a way toconnect people together, like creating a

(21:48):
network of people that are all different.
And yet still the same becausewe're, heart centered.
So that's what brought me to doingthe podcast and why I'm so glad
to sit here across from you andlisten to everything that you're
saying and seeing that you had.
Support throughout and people tolook, look up to that aligned with

(22:11):
you and you realized that that'sexactly how you want it to be as well.
So I think that it's a lot of peoplereally do feel with their heart first
when they're going through different pathsin their life and connect to a place.
But the reflection that you've hadas well about going back and when
you were 19 and being able to see.

(22:33):
That's who you wanted to be.
And here you are showingup as that person.
What tips can you share with thelisteners for staying motivated during
some of those challenging times?

Madeleine (22:46):
Oh, I've always lent on my community, always prioritized my gals
and lifting each other up and havingthose people that you can call and who's
going to support you and he's going toremind you of your fire and your light.
So I've been blessed with that.
And I think just remainingflexible, like the world changes,

(23:11):
how can I change and need it now.
I don't like.
I have to, like, stop myselffrom taking too much slow.
I'm allowed two courses at once now.
And, just knowing that thereare different things going on.
You can have multipleavenues of things you love.

(23:35):
Delve into more than one thing.
That's always been somethingI've seen where, okay, maybe
something's not working out.
Or you mess up yourfoot and you can't walk.
What else do you have?
I know I have gone through huge issuesof who am I if I'm not able to do this?
Who am I if I can't providethis to other people?

(23:57):
So really kind of havingmultiple streams, that is huge.
I mean, for me, it's also just I'm notspending time with visualization, but
I do want, and over the last littlewhile I've really been feeling into
meditation styles, kind of like JoeDispenza if you're familiar with that,
but that would be kind of visualizingwhat you want, but getting into the

(24:21):
emotional vibration of that feeling.
So say it's X amount of money inyour bank account or this physical
feat or a busy clinic, getting myselfinto that thought pattern and feeling
the feelings like I'm already there.
And that's been just huge for me.

(24:42):
For action.
Okay.
That's what it feels like.
Let me get myself alignedand vibrating that.
And then it just comes.
So that's been a real delegatefor me over the last little while.
I'm missing our power a littlemore to be flexible, not being

(25:06):
set on it needing to go one way.

Meghan (25:09):
Yes.
I think that is.
I think that's a huge challenge for a lotof people is learning to let go of, sort
of this rigid thinking patterns of rigidthinking into more flexible thinking.
And again, it goes back to, you know,sometimes the way that we've grown up

(25:30):
or, having to survive ourselves througha lot of different challenges that we do.
Lean on very structured, rigid thinkingto get us through those challenging times.
So opening things up, and I think itsounds amazing, just even how you
were sitting there and, and allowingyourself to even feel those feelings and

(25:54):
express and allow your body to move inthe moment as you're talking about it.
I can just see that that issuch a, a wonderful way to
relax and Yeah, and release.
And when you're talking about feelingsas well, like getting into the emotion
of it, we have so many senses that Ithink are so important to pick up on

(26:15):
as well when we're visualizing things.
And that's for me, When I think of thevisualizations and, setting goals,
things like that, using all, like tryingto tap into all the different senses
that we have of, of what that lookslike is such a powerful way, because

(26:36):
as soon as we're walking in the roadand we might smell a smell that came
to us during that visualization, itbrings that, it brings us to that place.
And then it's another likeanchoring point to getting to that
goal or that visualizing, levelthat you wanted to get to as well.

Madeleine (26:57):
Yeah.
Well, something that keeps runningthrough my head as you're speaking is
I've been educated recently from some ofthe incredible women in this community
about the sister roots that we all have.
And.
What kind of historical patterns haveled us to kind of the competition you
were speaking of that, and a littlebit more educated on things like the

(27:22):
witch trials and the burnings and our
history of being pitted againsteach other, and be competing for
men and competing for status.
Can you imagine like the witchtrials and you're a herbalist.
And or your neighbor is and to saveyourself, you're turning her in and like
what kind of neurological imprint thatdoes on our DNA and something I wasn't

(27:46):
aware of was how recent those were.
And I think for a lot of us,we think five, 600 years ago,
and that is just not true.
And I love when you were just speakingabout your vision for the podcast, and
even when I heard your message in yourtrailer about it, I was like, yes, here's
a sister who's, who's working on it andraising us up because we, we all have it.

(28:09):
We all have these elements of competitionand fear and insecurity around each other.
And that we're actually breakingthrough it and through celebrating each
other's power, we get to heal that.
And our daughters and their daughters.
aren't going to have it quite as much.

Meghan (28:27):
I have two daughters.
Okay.
And, that is definitely oneof the driving forces as well.
For me, it's, it's wanting tomodel to them as well that we can
continue to be kind, be generous.
Show up who we are and not, change whowe are just to make ourselves positioned

(28:56):
so that we're more likable by all this,like a specific group or clique or
something, you know, they're in school.
So, I'm hearing about itand it's, it's really,
it really needs to To happen morewhere women are supporting women and
it does go back really quite far.

(29:18):
There's the sister wound.
There's also the mother wound.
And that's like a wholeother topic that we get into.
But one of the things that also,when you were talking about, the
witch trials and everything, ourintuition as women, I feel like.
We have been made to, to, to believe thatwe're wrong in our intuition, because if

(29:44):
something health wise is not going the waythat it needs to, and we turn to different
trying different remedies, but to theworld, those are not right because of, for
instance, it being a witchy thing to do.
Yeah.
Or a new, age thing to do thatthen it's, It's not correct.

(30:08):
It's not right.
It's not the path that you should try tofollow and avoid that but stay over here.
But if there's this deep intuition thatyou have to follow that and people are
trying to tell you that you're wrong, ittakes us completely off the path and we
start, we start not trusting ourselves.

(30:29):
And when we don't trust ourselves, Don'tshow up because we don't trust ourselves.
Then we start questioning everythingaround us and questioning people's
intentions and, and why they're doingwhat they're doing or why they're saying.
And it's all based on thingsthat aren't true anyways.
And we really just need to followwhat's in our heart and in our

(30:52):
intuition and allow that to guide us.
I keep looking across the room andseeing that peak, the triangle, and,
and it brings me to this, this quotethat I, I'm a big quote person.
I love quotes.
And of course we allinterpret them differently.

(31:12):
The quote is about, how a peak or summit.
Is not going to come down to our level.
We have to go up to view fromthe summit and to get there.
We do really need to follow our heart.
It might take way longerthan another person.

(31:33):
But as long as we're patient and followingthat intuition, and maybe we'll take, you
know, a detour, but we probably will comeback as long as we stay in our knowing
and that intuition and get to that summit.
so much.
And having people along the way, right?
Like that's, that tome, that's a huge thing.

(31:55):
We're not meant to do this alone.
We're not meant to, raise a family alone.
We're not meant to, becomeadult women alone.
We're not meant to go through all thestages of becoming an adult alone.
And we're not meantto, grow old alone either.

(32:16):
So this is another part of, whyI'm doing the podcast is because
I want people to feel seen.
I want people to know that they areacknowledged in this world, that
they mean something, and they'revery much a part of something bigger.
It's just sometimes we need tobe reminded that there is so
much more.
Yeah.

(32:42):
, what has been one of the most surprising connections you've made on your journey
connections, because there's somebody thatyou've met in the workplace, or perhaps
somebody that you've connected with thatmaybe surprised you that you made a deep

(33:02):
connection with or anything like that.
You know, I startedworking, with a woman.
Jacqueline is her name, whocame to me first as a client.
And she's an incredible hypnotherapistin the Valley, by the way, and we started
working together and through her, sheled me to this amazing woman, Laura,
who's my personal trainer, actually.

(33:25):
And when you hear personal trainer,there's a certain idea of what that
is, but this woman is like teachingyou how to move and teaching you how
your body needs to be supported throughmovement, which is just so my cup of tea.
And.
Through that, Jacqueline now holds amazingwomen's circles here in this environment.

(33:46):
And I work with Laura, and I workwith a lot of Laura's clients.
So having this working relationshipwhere I'm working with their
musculoskeletal system and theirneurological health, and then sending
them to have movement, and then theconversations we get to have through that.
So again, it's coming back to workingtogether and having these amazing people

(34:07):
around us, and how influencing that is.
I don't know if that's a surprisingconnection, but that kind of trickle of
these women in that community, throughthem, I also met this incredible woman,
Yvonne, who's actually just startedworking here as a, a women's, coach.
So just another trickle effectthat can happen from that.

(34:29):
And then you look around and you're like,wow, it's these amazing pillars from our
community that are all working together.
And that is just making my heart sing.
It's a collaborating.
Yeah.
Right.
Collaborating.
Yeah.
And I think the older I get, themore I value that, like if I would
have imagined at 20 where I wantedto be, it would be very much like.

(34:52):
me and what I'm creating.
And that is still true, butnow it's like, who's with me?
Who's around?
And that's exciting.
That's a cool thing with ageof kind of softening to it,
needing to be so much about you.
Yes.
So I can only imagine what it's like whenYou know, if one's blessed to have 60 80

(35:14):
experiences and what that must be like.
I can see why peoplewant to mentor, right?
Because when you're olderand you've succeeded, that's
kind of what there is left.
Right?
But who do we pull up with us?
Yes.
Yes.
And I mentorship.
I mean, it could just bethat I haven't seen it yet.

(35:35):
seen it as much, myself, butmentorship is such a, a wonderful
way to encourage people as well.
Bring them into that path that you cansee that they really want to take, but
they're having a hard time understandingthat they are worthy and that they

(36:01):
have what it takes to, to go there.
Yeah, because
they've, they've gone through all the
things.
They've seen the different things happen.
They they've gone through the differentrelationships that maybe, didn't go as
well working relationships or anythinglike that, or they've gone through other
very big transformations in their lives.

(36:23):
And they've gotten to thelevel that they're at.
And it's like, people getexcited to share everything.
And that's where I also feellike if we're excited to share,
if that really does excite us.
Again, that points to, we arenot meant to do this alone.
So let's just continue to share andshare the knowledge, but also the energy.

(36:50):
For me, that's another thing thatI've realized over the years as
well, is that when you're withpeople, the energy can be shared.
And I went to a women's conferencein October and the energy was like, So
incredible that I came home and I justwas still like on this energetic high that

(37:13):
I just was like, I need to share this.
I need to share this with so many peoplebecause I, I've got this shared energy.
Everybody was sharing it.
And, and I wanted to share it with otherpeople as well, people that weren't
necessarily at the conference, my friendswho are going through things because
they're trying to start businesses or theyjust, you know, I wanted to share that

(37:37):
energy with them and be like, come borrowsome of this, borrow some of this energy
from me and, and then you too can take it.
And start, finding yourself gaining moreenergy, like compounding energy compounds.
Exactly.
Instead of me, plus you, plus, plus,it's me times you, times, times.

(37:59):
That formula, exactly.
Instead of plus, it's multiply.
Yeah.
Is there any other, is there any otherpoints that you would really like to talk
about as far as, what is like to bringyour dreams and visions into reality?

(38:22):
So, yes, so at some point along thatjourney of working in the clinic, I
moved to working at my home, which wasactually very lovely through the thick
of COVID, I was very in control of.
They're not being hugenumbers coming in and out.
I was very lucky in that Ilived in a home that had an
exterior door with an en suite.

(38:43):
So I was able to, you know, not haveeveryone tracking through my space.
And it being kind of a closed container.
So that was kind of my firstbaby step into working on my own.
Which was really lovely.
So from the supportive environment inthe community to moving there, I did
that for about a year and that was great.

(39:05):
And then I ended up moving inwith my partner and it just wasn't
a realistic choice for me tocontinue to be working at my home.
We have two dogs and work differentschedules and it would have been loud
and rambunctious and not peaceful.
I started getting on the hunt forlooking for a commercial lease,
which went long and arduous.

(39:26):
And difficult, because there's lots ofoptions for very large spaces, or it would
have required quite a lot of, renovations.
Mainly, like, what I absolutelyneed for my work is laundry.
I mean, I guess you could do itat home, but I don't need to.
It was a process, and I had a fewthat I got close to, with signing

(39:49):
contracts, and for various reasons.
Things fell through and it kind ofwas going on and on, and then I found
this place, which I had not thoughtI was going to not work in Portney.
I live in Oyster River, so I'm alreadyabout 25 minutes out of town, so I just
figured I was going to be commuting.
Hadn't crossed my mind that I would finda happy medium between my home and town.

(40:12):
And it was quite an act of courage forme to ask of my clients to drive uptown.
Hmm.
Hmm.
I'd like to come back to this.
Yeah.
Which is funny because it's not that far.
Like it's 10 15 minutesdepending on where you are.
But, Oh, when you want thingsto be easy and convenient, you

(40:33):
don't know how that's going to go.
And I have more expenses herethan I did, obviously, when I was
renting and living in my space.
And so I needed to be havingX amount of work to maintain.
That was a process.
And yeah, an act of courage on my part ofjust, Thinking into that and to go back,

(40:58):
I did a lot of visualizing on how thatwould go and like actually seeing the
beautiful people I wanted to work withcoming and that feeling of abundance.
And man, am I glad I did because it'sbeen amazing here and people love coming.
We're surrounded bytrees and in the woods.

(41:18):
I've had people think it's It'skind of like a tree house in here.
It's the second story up and very,, grounded in earth and wood and people will
just come early and sit here and have teaor stay and stretch after their sessions
or, and it just feels so special that it'sa place that people feel safe and want

(41:41):
to be and business has been incredible.
Of course, some clients fell off.
You know, that commute mattered tothem, and man has the Merville Black
Creek community raised up and gratefulabout having something out here.
It's quite a burgeoning community, andI'm sure we'll see over the next number

(42:05):
of years other amazing businesses andpeople doing things out here as well.
We need it.
It's growing.
It's growing
so much.
Um, I think that fear of willpeople drive or come to you when

(42:30):
you've made it easy for them, youknow, that's such a hard thing.
Sometimes I think we
I think it's more for me, a fear, notso much a fear, it's like, okay, well,
if they don't, then that means moretime needs to be put into building it.

(42:59):
And so there's that goingback to being flexible again.
Yes.
And so there's, you know what I mean?
Like, it's like a fear of the unknownbecause you don't know who's going to
come with you until maybe you start,actually open sign is on the door
and who actually is going to show up.
So you really don't knowwhat is needed of you.

(43:23):
, it's sort of in thebusiness sense of things.
Until you start seeing the schedule.
So what does that feel like?
, to sit in that transition of, ofpeople coming and like you said,
you know, your expenses increased.
Yeah.
, and you went from working from homeand then finding a place to lease.

(43:43):
How, how did you work through all of that?
Did you use a lot of the meditation andvisualizing to get you through that?
Do you have other people you, useon your team to help you get to those
figures that you're, you're needingto make sure that you're covering,
not just your overhead, but also yourown putting food on your own plate.

(44:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I definitely employed those strategies.
I have also an incredible, I guess she'slike a hybrid therapist, energy worker
that I'm very diligent about working with.
Yeah.
Every two to three weeks, three years,I work with her and that really helps.
So when I'm in kind of those momentsof, ooh, anxiety or things, I just

(44:31):
ask of her for more extra support.
And so that was really helpful.
I have an incredible partner toothat was like, we will be okay.
Like if you, if things are alittle slow, we will be okay.
Like, and family members and everyonekind of stood up and said that for me.
So I feel very lucky in that regard.

(44:52):
And what's actually going to end uphappening is, I feel so happy to say this,
my mom and my brother both work here.
So I've not only kind of created thespace for myself, but for my family.
And I just feel every time I get tosay that, I just feel so honoring that,
one, they want to, two, I can, and Iknow when people come in and they see

(45:17):
like the JNAP with all the Windfellnames, they're So that's really cool.
My brother's new, like he's a newRMT just starting to work here.
And it's very cool to be workingin my room and hear him with his
clients and the feedback I've heardfrom his clients is incredible.
He was a personal trainer and done alot of other courses before doing RMT.

(45:40):
So he has a unique offer and, yeah, just.
It's so cool.
That is so cool.
That is really neat.
And again, it's likedoing things together.
And for some people, it's, itis doing things with family.
Maybe there's their partners.
And for some people, it'sparents, siblings, and for other

(46:04):
people, it's, just people.
Finding people very close intheir circle and that's okay, too.
That is okay, too.
Yeah
What are some tips that everyonecan do at home with like what they
have to sort of steer them to?
Optimizing their health

Madeleine (46:25):
so first I'll just preface what we've been talking about that I'm
an RMT, but I'm also an osteo and havedone that education and I'm trained in
Reiki and have done some training in
Qigong, which is ancient
Chinese medicine.
And currently I'm doing ahealth coaching program.
So I have a little bitof figures in a few pie.
I just wanted to preface that with enough.

(46:48):
I'm an RT but there's, there'sadd ons to that as well.
Yes.
, I mean, to your question, you wereasking about what can people do
themselves for their own health?
Yeah.
I'm like,

Meghan (46:59):
what would be maybe some underrated things,
that people can do for themselvesat home to either, before they get
to that place where they're feelingthere's something has to, something
has to give, something has to change.
What could they start doing, now?

(47:19):
Is it stretching in the mornings?
Is it, something to dowith the mentality even?
Is it a morning visualization?
Or, what do you think thatthey could do at home?

Madeleine (47:32):
Well, I think, I think for most of us, it's going to be having some kind
of established routine in our morning, andthat does not look the same for all of us.
I think ideally, it's going toincorporate movement, and I say
movement, not exercise on purpose, joyfulmovement, whatever that is for you.

(47:57):
If it's stretchy, great.
If it's slow, great.
If it's lifting up something heavy, great.
If it's walking outside, great.
Especially if you're walking outside,there's really a lot of power for
having correct hormone balance withhaving first sunlight in the morning.
Now it doesn't have to be literalfirst sunlight, but getting out
in the early part of our day,having sun on our face, we get a

(48:18):
lot of the power through our eyes.
So I'm encouraging you not to havesunglasses or things like this,
but letting light stream into us.
It actually, Elicit's correct.
There she is just in asunbeam being glorious.
It actually makes for correctcortisol spikes throughout our day.
So one, it's having a more stable mood,but two, it's allowing sleep hormones

(48:42):
in the night to come at a correct time.
So we're not spikingincorrectly for so much of us.
We have Disturbances with our sleep,and that might not be something as
extreme as insomnia, and maybe we'refalling asleep fine, but we know when
we look at people's tests that theirquality of sleep is it's just not good.

(49:04):
And that is for a lot of reasons.
I do think light exposure is one of thebiggest, I did a lot of experimenting
for a while with an aura ring, whichis like the watches people wear that
monitor your sleep quality, but it'sbasically just a ring version of that
and figuring out, okay, is it the sugarat night that's affecting my sleep?

(49:24):
Is it heat?
Is it?
And it was light.
And for so much of us.
Or on our devices at night, on ourphones at night, we're watching
movies at night, and that's all great.
But we're letting light comeinto our body at a time where our
body is expecting it to be dark.
And it's actually creating awake hormones.

(49:47):
Yeah.

Meghan (49:48):
I don't hang out on my phone at night.

Madeleine (49:52):
No one does.
But it's really I mean, obviouslyall of us are going to have
different things that affect it.
Right.
So for some people, maybe it istheir big, you know, secret sugar at
night that's affecting their sleep.
Right.
That does for sure.
Yeah.
But light is really powerful.
I've heard it said once we shouldbe trying to get outside four times

(50:13):
throughout the day at differenttimes to actually connect.
With the sun and the differentphases, again, all for our hormone.
It doesn't mean you have to beout there for long periods of
time, but five, 10 minutes at fourdifferent segments of the day.
Kind of like how you would read ground.
If you flew in a plane, theother side of the world.

(50:34):
Yeah.

Meghan (50:37):
So interesting.
My daughter wears glasses and she wascomplaining about, her eyes one day.
This is.
Sort of leading into so my dad, we weretalking this one day and he's like,
Oh, he watched something and it was.
It was talking about, before like allthe digital age of light, our eyes

(51:04):
didn't have to adjust constantly, tothe dead light, to the light itself.
We would be outside and itwould be like really bright.
And if the, if a cloud came over, it waslike, okay, the cloud came over, but it
wasn't this very fast change in light.
It was kind of like a little bit slower.

(51:25):
So our eyes are getting so tired and yet.
Like what you're saying about, being outin the sun at different stages of the day
and everything, it just made me think ofat nighttime when we do have our screens,
I'm one of those people, I do turn the,screen brightness Like way, way, way down.

(51:47):
And I also have like the warm lightlook to my screen, at the same time,
our eyes are constantly, looking atdifferent things and having to re sort
of go into our brains to say what we'retaking in, whether it's the light.
The change in, in depth or anythinglike that, so I think it's just

(52:10):
really, it just really kind of piquedmy interest and I'm now fascinated
with this whole get outside, youknow, a few times at different
times of day to connect everything.
It makes sense to me.

Madeleine (52:23):
And even you say the depth like you think about how
often we're looking closely.
Right.
And if you think about a muscle, like ifI constantly pull my arm up, I'm pulling
into a flexed position, that muscleeventually is used to being in a shortened
position and it's less happy to be long.
This is the classic.
All of us have rolled forwardshoulders, you, me, all of us

(52:45):
have rolled forward shoulders.
And that's because we are so continuouslyin that position that over time, those
muscles are used to approximating.
There's always another musculargroup that is now lengthened and
that tends to be the muscles betweenour shoulder blades and spine.
And that happens with our eyes as well.
So if you think about you'realways looking closely, the

(53:05):
muscle starts to be short.
It starts to be stuck into that position.
And we don't look far away.
We don't.
There's really cool eye exercise whereyou're looking far at the mountain and
you're jumping close and then you'regoing to the tree a hundred yards
away and then you're jumping close andactually exercising your eyes the way

(53:25):
that you would any part of your body.
Think how many of us need reading glasses.
Right.
So our body just over time is adjusting.

Meghan (53:35):
Ah, yes.
So interesting.
So fascinating.

Madeleine (53:39):
So to back to what you said, I think having an established
morning routine that has someform of movement, some form of
joy and some form of learning.
So not rushing into our day,not hitting that snooze button.
Now I
will say if your
soft start is jumping up and dunkingin the river and doing a sprint,

(54:02):
that's okay if that's your soft start.
I just don't mean it's going to berushing down coffee, running out.
Take that 20 minutes.
It doesn't have to be long.
Go for a 10 minute walk.
Maybe you're listening toan educational podcast.
Maybe you come home and drink your coffeeand read a book that about something

(54:23):
that's interesting you, but to establishsomething that we've done for ourself
in the morning, we've already progressedis just the name of our day for success.
And I really think it can be simple,and I know for myself, sometimes
I have to really humble myself.

(54:44):
Damn, it's not going toyoga four days a week.
It's doing one 20 minute yoga video onSaturdays, and then you succeed at that.
But sometimes, I know for myself, again,I You know, want to do stuff and want
to hit it all like, okay, no, I'm notdoing that or I'm going to get burnt out.

(55:04):
So it's really dialing it back.
Let yourself succeed.
Let yourself be excited.
And then maybe add, but yeah.
And then I'm always going to add water.
Right.
Yeah.
And I encourage people to think aboutthe quality of their water as well.

(55:25):
You know, we all do our best.
Tap water has a myriad of issues,including it's unstructured water,
like the actual molecules of the water.
It often has people'smedications in it, yeah.
And it's usually been treated withsomething like chlorine, which is

(55:45):
negatively affecting our microbiomeand a myriad of other things.
So, just having, and again, that canbe different things, maybe it's well
water, maybe it's reverse osmosiswater from the grocery store by myself
and very into hunting for springs andcollecting that, because to me that's
the most powerful, you don't have todo that, that's an extreme choice.

(56:05):
If you're inclined, it's areally exciting thing to do.
It's a priming treasure.

Meghan (56:10):
But I'd like to hear more about this too.
That sounds fun.

Madeleine (56:14):
Yeah.
There's a website called findspring.
com.
I don't know if you haveshow notes or things on the
podcast, but that could link it.
And it actually showssprings all over the world.
You can go onto it and say you're going toKelowna and you can look up cool springs
to find both cold springs and hot springs.
And kind of add that as afun little scavenger hunt.

(56:35):
It's really fun to do with kids as well.
I have a water baby.
Okay.
Loves, like, loves all things water.
So.
Okay.
And what a great thing to havekids get excited about, like,
the quality of their water.
It's the easiest, cheapestthing we can do for our health.

Meghan (56:52):
Water is, it's interesting because we, we have a well.
Yeah.
, and when we moved into our place,we live on the same property.
My husband grew up on his grandparentsbought the property in the seventies.
He was raised by his grandparents.
And there's a well, right, but they hadbeen drinking for however many years,

(57:15):
probably never even thought aboutthe quality of the water in the well.
When we moved onto the propertyand built our place, of
course, now, you know, lenders.
Don't want to lend, if there's arisk, to the potability of water.
So you have to provide watertests and certifications.

(57:37):
So because of that, I hadto get our water tested.
Yeah, I got our water tested.
Not good water.
So we did the shock, the well, with thebleach, and do all this kind of stuff.
Still came back not good.
And was it not good becauseit was high mineral?
No, it was high e-coli.
There's, I'm pretty sure it's, it'seither that, it's like , an animal,

(58:02):
What we suspect is it's becausethere's farmland behind us.

Madeleine (58:05):
Okay.
Yeah, I'm forgetting whatthat term is called as well.

Meghan (58:08):
it was on the paperwork and it just said this is, and so we were
encouraged to put in a UV system.
So that's how we treat.
Our water is through a UV system.
So our water gets pumped out of ourwell, into our house, it goes through
a UV light, and then we can drink it.
We don't have to add anything.

Madeleine (58:29):
And that's incredible.
And talk about technology, dude.

Meghan (58:31):
And our kids love our water.
They prefer our water fromhome over the water at school.
So if I don't fill their water bottleall the way to the top, they're
complaining at the end of the day.
And I had to drink school.

Madeleine (58:47):
And how cool, hey, they've developed their water palette as well,
where they can tell the difference.
Yeah, there's differences between water.
There's actual water sommeliers outthere, like there'd be wine sommeliers.
You can go places and be like,here's this mineral water.
I've not had the pleasureyet, but that would be fun.

Meghan (59:08):
Well, yeah, well, and that's the thing.
Not, not everybody can pick upthe different tastes in the water.
I myself can, so I totally understandmy kids being able to as well.
My dad, however.
He would tell me, it allcomes from the same tap.
It's all the same.
How can you tell?
Never understood that I could actuallytell the difference between, the water

(59:30):
I was drinking at his house, the water intown, because it was different as well.
The water, or , the water at mymom's house and the water at his
house was very different tasting.

Madeleine (59:40):
Yeah.
And often people will then next say, I'mjust grateful that we have healthy water.
And so am I, so am I.
And just because maybe we're morefortunate than other people in the
world doesn't mean we can't alsomake a slightly better choice.
As well.
So, yeah, I mean, this place has wellwater and I actually tend to bottle water

(01:00:04):
here and bring it to my home as wellwhen I'm not able to go to the spring.
How I heard it once said, which I justthought was so beautiful, is that the
difference between well water and springwater is spring water, the earth has
now ripened and is giving it to you.
As well, water is still amazing.

(01:00:26):
Definitely the second best choice,if it's healthy, obviously, if you're
eating some kind of, drinking somekind of contaminated water, you know,
we need to get that treated, but theidea that it's ripened it like fruit
and it's like a juicy strawberry, justevery time I'm filling up my jugs, yeah,
this is something that's gifting us.

Meghan (01:00:47):
Yes.
Yes.
Well, as soon as you said that, I justpictured a stream and just it looking
so drinkable, kind of like, you know,the same when the water is clear at
the ocean and just like, even on asuper cold day, I'm not a cold plunder.
I want to, but I, but there's days whereI've gone, I've taken my dog for a walk,

(01:01:10):
and the water just looks so inviting.
It just makes me want to step init with all of my clothes on , like
just your goddess walk
there.
Like I just, usually the sun is alsoshiny at the same time when that happens.
, water, the earth, , sun,all these elements.

(01:01:32):
I'm having a whole other thoughtprocess in my mind right now
about all these different things.
You've given us some tips.
So that's wonderful.
Thank you so much for that.
I do.
I do think that like a routine.
Yeah.
A ritual, a ritual.
I love that word ritual.
Because It brings a sense of like choiceinto what you're doing in the morning.

(01:01:59):
Routine sounds a little moremundane and like you have to do it.
But needless to say, that's me.
Sometimes we need itto be a ritual, right?
What are some of yourpersonal favorite, services?
either to, because you're in, thehealth and you are massaged.
Do you have a personal favorite?

(01:02:20):
Massage technique that you like to use?
Or is there another service that you liketo, that's one of your personal favorites?

Madeleine (01:02:29):
I work a lot with the fascial network of the body, so if I
had to say that, if I lean into oneway of treating, that would be it.
I do a lot of work with organmanipulation and neurological support
and joint mobilizations as well.
To me, the fascial networkis all of those things.
So, and for people who are not familiarwith fascia, fascia is the connective

(01:02:55):
tissue that runs in and around allof the compartments of our body.
It's below our skin.
It surrounds each muscle,it surrounds each organ.
It doesn't just surround.
It embeds.
So I like to talk about muscles.
Like if you imagine a package of hotdogs and each hot dog has plastic,

(01:03:16):
and then the hot dog package wasplastic around, and then maybe there's
10 packages with plastic around it.
That's the fascia into the muscle fibers.
So we work with the outer, butit's also working with the inner.
And again, that's alsosurrounding the organs.
It's covering our bones.
It's this whole beautiful gelatinousnetwork that basically holds our

(01:03:39):
body up and it is what our nervesand our blood vessels run in.
So to come back to water, ifwe're dehydrated, the fascial
network becomes like jerky.
So, she's sipping water.
So basically, it starts to inhibitthe neurological firing, the blood

(01:04:03):
flow, and not to the point whereyour arm's dead or tingling, but
it's just starts to be reduced.
We get a little bit lessrecovery when oxygenated blood
is not coming to those areas.
And over time, this creates dysfunction.
Think about people who have numbnessin their hands, super common, right?

(01:04:23):
Extremely common.
I deal with it all the time.
Not personally, but with my clients,and that is often coming from fascial
adhesions in our pec muscles, themuscles in front of our chest, by our
shoulders, where compression startsto happen between the fascial layers.
The nerves are disrupted becausethe nerves of the blood vessels

(01:04:45):
to our arm runs under our pec intoour armpit and down our hands.
So when it's compressed anddehydrated, it just sticks and reduces.
So, I work with the fascialsystem from a whole perspective.
So, one thing that really changedmy approach from being an RMT,

(01:05:07):
a massage therapist, to a manualosteopath, is, okay, so they're
having pain in their wrist.
As an RMT, I would have just doneall the joint moves and worked all
the muscles and done all the support.
Now, I'm thinking aboutthe pathway of the artery.
The pathway of the nerve, often it'salways coming back to treating the

(01:05:29):
spine, the spine with the exceptionof the 12 cranial nerves that come
out of our skull, the spine hasall of the nerves that come out.
And if we have rotations andside bending, which we all do,
again, it's kinking it.
So over time we have less innervation,we have less ability to move our body.

(01:05:55):
And that results also inthe less ability to recover.
We're not having fluid exchange.
We're having metabolites stay in tissues.
They shouldn't think about whenyour ankles are poofy, right?
It's particularly aswe age varicose veins.
All of this is an inabilityfor our system to return back.

(01:06:17):
So, Definitely how I look at thebody now for more of an osteopathic
approach is from that perspective.
If I get your shoulder back, yourwrist is going to heal itself.
Obviously if you bang it, it'sbroken, that's a different case,
but we're basically aligning you.
So blood's getting there, nervousinnovation's getting there,

(01:06:39):
and then I don't need to do anything.
So for people who experiencean osteopathic approach, it's
often very Simple feeling.
What's happening?
It's small.
It's little adjustments.
It's often very, well,typically it has no pain.
Typically it's, you're not even suresomething's happening and then you

(01:07:00):
leave and you're like, Oh, okay.
Like there's this bush of blood.
So it kind of is givingthe power back to you.

Meghan (01:07:10):
Interesting.
It sounds like you have added this andit's so complimentary to like to all
that you have talked about, you know,the massage and then now this, it sounds
like it's very complimentary as well.

It is.
Sometimes clients will ask like,Oh, is that a osteopathic approach?
It's all one.
I mean, it is actually one whole system.
I don't see it as different.
When I was doing osteo, I'm like,this just feels like I'm doing
a master's program of massage.
Okay.
It's the same sort of practice,like everything you're allowed

(01:07:48):
to do as one, you're allowed todo as others, so it's very fluid.
It is so complimentary.
It's just about knowledge base, right?
I always say I strive to be a generalist.
So many people, and I'm gratefulthey do, Our specialists, right?
Like, we get one error, we're doing onething and we need those, but my kind

(01:08:09):
of goal is, okay, let me get my fingersa little bit in all the pies, we know
about nutrition and movement and sleepand hormones, and, and then if I need to
refer you, I absolutely will, but at leastI can have a little bit of understanding
of how this is tying to this, or why, youknow, Issues with your liver is causing

(01:08:32):
your shoulder right shoulder pain, whichis an extremely common referral pattern.
So then we have at least somekind of understanding because.
We live in a society where our medicalsystem is very parceled, which allows them
to be extremely educated in that area.
But you go to your doctor and theysay, don't tell me about that.

(01:08:53):
We're talking about your tonsillitis.
And it's like, okay, but yes and.
Well, it's just, it's yes and.

Meghan (01:09:01):
Yes and.
Exactly.
And when you first were talking about,everything that's, that's kind of where
my thoughts went was that in Westernmedicine, it's very like one thing
at a time will rule these things out.
But the focus itself is stillonly on that one sort of piece.

(01:09:25):
Yeah.
In my experience with, with my back, I wasreally scared to go see somebody that I'd
seen in the past, not the person, but the,the type of work that that was suggested.
I was really scared becauseI've had not a great experience.

(01:09:47):
But it wasn't those they were educatedin such a way to other things that
then it was suggest okay let's do alittle bit of this, and we're also
going to do some of this, and we'regoing to connect this in there.
And if I didn't have.
All these sort of likecomplimentary generalized, like a

(01:10:09):
generalized way of looking at it.
I don't think I would
have
had as short of a recovery time as I did.
So

you felt like this practitioner was supporting from
you for multiple layers of wellness.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.

Meghan (01:10:29):
And it sounds like that's what you yourself have decided to do for for
your patients and people that come to youis to be able to offer more than just one
thing to help them overall and in general.

It's definitely my goal.
And, you know, when I was a young personand I was dealing with those injuries
we spoke about earlier, I receiveda lot of help, and I found myself
also feeling extremely alone in it.
And.
When you're young, too, people havethe mindset of, you're gonna be fine,

(01:11:05):
which is often true, of course, like,of course I was fine, and there was this
whole experience of kind of being pushedunder the rug, and no one was like,
really on my team, and no one reallywas like, I've got you, we're gonna
figure this out, and so my journey asa practitioner has been really amazing.
To be that.

(01:11:26):
Now, I've had to do a lot oflearning, and my therapist, Annie G.
Harper, has been working with me alot about also not being everybody's
hero, and being their teacher.
So she was like, Madeline, juststep out of your hierarchy and
into your teaching, Annie G.

(01:11:47):
Because I found myself in some cases.
I was caring more than my clientscared about their health and the
energy drain that that creates.
And now I realized like, I am walkinghand in hand with you up this hill and
I just can't be pulling you, right?

(01:12:08):
I'm always going to be next to you.
And that was really importantfor my development as a therapist
and what I really encourage inother people as well, because,

Meghan (01:12:18):
sorry, I have a question for that because, you know, When you
motion, like the hand holding, butalso explaining like not pulling, but
you are there for them, have you foundthat like when a client really feels
like you are just there to be alongsideand to guide them versus pulling them?

(01:12:39):
Do you find that there's like abit of a surrendering and that they
take that and then they're morewilling to show up for themselves?

Absolutely.
And it's even deeper with actuallywhen I work with tissue systems.
There'll be a tendency sometimesto push and then it's like, no, no,
no, allow, hold space for, right?
Like, allow.
And it's huge.

(01:13:07):
Like sometimes, you know, there'll besome really stuck fascia or something
going on and I'm engaged and I'm pullingand I'm encouraging and it's like,
Ooh, okay, like soften in my body.
Take a step back.
Take a step back.
Leave space for the, just like when you'retrying to push your friend or your partner
into something that's resistant, right?
Like, I'm going to lie to my boyfriend,just want me to be a mountain biker so bad

(01:13:34):
when, you know, if that hadn't beenheld to that intensity and I had
been felt more invited and pushed.
I'm like,
so yeah, I, I really see it in the tissuesystem and in just people's ability to.
Feel neurologically safe over timeI've seen that that's what's most

(01:13:56):
important on the treatment tableand all of us have different ways
of getting there and for some peoplethat's a more aggressive approach and
I've seen that do wonders as well.
What I've discovered whatworks for me and my clients is.
The safety, again, in the neurologicalsystem that then allows change to happen.

Meghan (01:14:17):
Yeah, definitely.
I can attribute to that feeling ofsafety and, I think a lot of people feel
shame when they're not doing the, thehomework that they're supposed to do
to recover and then they're coming backto their appointment and they're being

(01:14:38):
asked, did you, how did your week go?
Did you do your, and I just remember foreven myself, it's like when I finally
trusted that I was in a safe place.
To show up the way that I was showing up,it was like, like, I could just feel it

(01:15:00):
in my body when I finally felt safe andcould trust that, I was going to be okay.
And I was in good hands and I wasn'tgoing to be pulled up the hill.
I was just going to be Theywere just with me as well.
Like it was such a, yeah.
So I can, understand that that'san important piece for, for you as

(01:15:22):
well, on, on the side of it beingthe practitioner, as well as for
the people that you are, the clientsthat you're working with as well.
Yeah.
What do you think is the biggestmisconception when it comes to, let's
talk about the osteopathic industry?

Well, a lot of people don't know about the osteopathic industry,
so I'm not sure how, I guess thebiggest misconception, osteo, in, like,
the actual word is bone, so peopleautomatically think that I'm just going
to be working with the bony system.
So I guess that would bethe biggest misconception.

(01:16:03):
A lot of people hold the conceptionof no pain, no gain, which kind
of ties into what we last said.
And so I like to re educate.
Again, around the neurologicalsafety around this is not about
you can withstand or not withstand.
It's about not pushing the systemto a point where you're guarded.
Right.
So, I just like even just thatlittle blurb of explanation helps

(01:16:27):
people because Most of us thinkour therapist knows best, right?
And they're like, okay, this is hard.
They must know.
And again, sometimes that's needed.
And hopefully that that's communicatedin a way that this is going to be
a little bit more of a tender area.
We're still going towork within a threshold.
So again, it's about gettingyourself into an area of safety.

(01:16:48):
And for so many people, it isabout exploring, not just what's
happening in the physical route.
Often we're having somekind of internal process.
That's allowing that injury toremain for whatever purpose that is.

(01:17:10):
That was my case with mytailbone break that didn't heal.
It wasn't a soft tissue injurythat was just taken forever.
I had shit to deal with andfamily stuff to deal with.
And we've always kind of hadthese secondary gains from
having these pains, right?
And whether or not that allows us to.

(01:17:32):
Say no to things, right?
Or maybe we need to change something inour life, but exploring what could be.
serving us about that pain or injurywithout judgment on ourself, right?
So yes, people like myself who are ananimal therapist are here to support your

(01:17:53):
system, but taking the accountabilityfor the emotional process there.
And for most of us, the inflammatoryprocess that's there, if our body's
riddled with inflammation, like mostof us are, and that's from diet, lack
of sunlight, stress, so many things.

(01:18:13):
Our bodies overloaded and we can'theal even if we have the most
amazing knowledgeable therapistwho knows how to put our body back
if inflammation keeps coming in.
So, yeah, I would say there'sa misconception in that.
Long term chronic pain is aninability for our body to heal.

(01:18:35):
And that's true, but it's notbecause often of tissue it's, it's.
It's a different patternthat's been created.
It's deeper, but I willsay just how feeling
an emotional pattern can heal the body.
Feeling the body can healthe emotional pattern.
They both work.

Meghan (01:18:55):
I feel like I could just talk for every second, but I just
wrote this, this hope in our day.
And it was like that whole, like,is it the chicken or like what
comes first, the chicken or the egg?
And like that, just as soon asyou said that, it's just like,
that brought that up again.
It's like, you can do one thing andone thing only, but eventually it could

(01:19:19):
be bring you to, you know, that's thechicken and then the egg piece, you know,
being the emotional side of things andthe, the thoughts and the patterns and
getting through all of that as well.
I'm not at all explaining what mythoughts are properly right now,
but it just As soon as you saidthat, that's what came to my mind.

It's true.
And I find it's often, we don'tneed to know who came first, right?
We need to support boththe chicken and the egg.

Meghan (01:19:47):
Yes.
And that's exactly what Iended up writing as well.
It's like.
I didn't need the answeritself of what was first.
I just needed to start taking someaction in one direction or the other.
And, the knowledge that both are needed, Ithink, is something that often is missed.

(01:20:08):
We think we are only going one routefirst, we just need to change our life.
That's first.
Then, once that happens, we'll be okay.
But really, you need to change yourdiet or start something with that.
As well as add in some other things.
So that complements that.
And then, Circularly, it keeps youfrom going backwards, backwards.

(01:20:36):
Yeah.

And that brings us back to that.
We all need each other, right?
Because I'm educated in this area.
Someone else is educated insupporting your emotional patterns.
And someone else is just your best friend.
Who's going to love you regardless.
And some of that, you know.
Yeah, exactly.

Meghan (01:20:54):
What is your dream for this year?

Well, I have just included two new practitioners in the space,
so I have dreamed for to get thembusy and to get them thriving.
I am pretty committed to educatingmyself about Both the concrete and
the energetics of money, and I'dlike to learn a lot more how to wield

(01:21:18):
that, and set myself up for that.
I think it's women, it's often,and I can't speak for all of us,
but it's often an area that wedon't always educate ourselves in.
And I want to find some playfulnessto that, because sometimes I
don't even want to look at it.
Ooh, I love that.
And be like, okay, like, there'sthis woman, Amanda Francis, who's

(01:21:39):
all about the energy of money.
And I listen to her stuff sometimes.
It's like, okay, like, let's payevery bill filled with gratitude.
And let's, like, do thingsfrom this different stance.
It's not like I want to paymy taxes or whatever it is.
It's like, how lucky am I that I, makeX amount of money that I get to pay this
much taxes just changing my point of view.

(01:22:02):
Again, it's it's an area thatI've kind of Push to the side.
It's like, I'm just going to dogood work and like, whatever.

Meghan (01:22:11):
Right.
Well, allowing yourself to be guided byyour heart, I feel like is, something
that, I think if we don't do in thebeginning, then we can end up not really
being on the path that we're meant tobe on because we're guided by different
side of things, which is a more sort offinancial construct of things and making.

(01:22:37):
The funds versus actually being moreheart centered and following our paths.
And then once you really feel likeyou're in that right place, it's like,
okay, now I want to keep this going.
I'm ready to like explore the othersort of side of it and, making sure
that I can continue providing, myenergy and what I am passionate about.

Yeah, exactly.
I have a lot of desireto do more education.
I'm not sure exactly what avenuethat's going to come on, but in
order for me to have the time andenergy to provide education, I think
it's going to be a YouTube channel.
We'll see.
I need to have things organized in sucha way that I have time and resources
to create things that maybe are notgenerating income or things like that.

(01:23:30):
I'd love to build moreenergy around the studio.
Again, we have.
We have women in circles here andjust like inviting more of that
in, invite more community in.
That's kind of what I'mexcited about this year.
Like, how do we all rise?
How do I use my resources ina way that feels abundant.

(01:23:50):
I don't know, like a lot of people I'vebeen hearing this year instead of having
resolutions are doing this one word.
I don't know if you're familiar with that,but it's like, okay, what's like, what's
the word that you just want to invitethis year instead of it being a goal.
And I decided that my word is abundance.
And for me, that means my health,my community, my resources.

(01:24:15):
My garden, but just abundanceand just welcoming it in.

Meghan (01:24:19):
I love that.
I love that so much.
Is there anything else that has comeup that you want to circle back to?

I just encourage people to not be intimidated by needing help.
I find a lot of people are and theydon't want to start because they think
that they're going to be made fun ofor they think that they're it's too
late or they're too old or they'retoo broken and I just encourage
people to humble themselves with agentle first step and seek support

(01:24:52):
like And support others, right?
Like I know sometimes when I'm in mydarkest state, it's like, okay, good.
Get up and go help your friend.
Right?
Like I can generate energy for otherpeople more often than I can for myself.

Meghan (01:25:07):
That's that, right.
And then that's the shared energy piece.
Cause that's exactly whatcomes to my mind as well.
Sometimes, even if I'm not feelinglike I can accept energy from other
people because I'm in a dark place.
I still allow myself to try to, havea positive energy so that someone

(01:25:29):
else can gain from me in that day.
So it's like, it's just like just wantingto bring people up and help them rise up.
And then from that, my energyand my mindset and everything.
Just changes automatically.

Isn't it amazing how that works?
It's like that Friends episode where theytalk about there's no selfish good deeds.
All good deeds are selfish.
And they're trying to find one that's not,and Kiki lets herself get bit by a wasp.
And like, and it's true,all good deeds benefit us.
I mean, sometimes directly, sometimesthrough the ether, but just in our mood.

(01:26:11):
So not being afraid to be abeginner, help each other.

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