Overcoming Burnout | Colleen Franklin, RCC - Anchor Your Dreams

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
If you are
someone who has a dream, but feelstuck, if you are facing obstacles that
seem overwhelming, or if you just needa dose of motivation to keep pushing
forward, then you are in the right place.
So buckle up dreamers, Anchoryour Dreams is not just a podcast.

(00:26):
It's a community, a community of dreamers,supporting dreamers, women, supporting
women, subscribe, follow along, and let'snavigate the seas of ambition together.
Thank you for joiningme on this adventure.
Get ready to be inspired,motivated, and empowered.
The journey begins now.

(00:49):
So I got a really stellar move thismorning and I left my work bag at
home and didn't realize it till Igot here so I'm on my cell phone.
Oh, that's okay.
That's totally fine.
I'm laughing at
myself.
I'm like how does one who does virtualcounseling forget a computer at home?
I thought I was reallylight leaving the house.
Anyways, here I am now.

(01:09):
I'm I'm actually, it's funny.
I'm in my room right nowbecause, um, my daughter is home.
So this is my sort ofmakeshift little podcast space.
So I'm sitting on my bed.
So if you see me shiftinga bit, it's just because.
I'm trying to get a littlecomfortable and I might have
a cramp in a leg or something.

(01:30):
All good.
My office for years was in the corner ofmy bedroom with like a table and a chair.
People are like, what a lovely office.
I'm like, thank you.
Looking at my disaster of a room.
Right.
I thought about doing that in my room.
I have like enough space in a cornerto, to set up a desk so that if
I have my computer on, you wouldjust see a wall as well behind me.

(01:52):
Today I'm here with ColleenFranklin of Sandstone Counseling.
She is a registered clinical counselor.
Welcome, Colleen.
Thank you so much forbeing on the podcast.
Thanks.
So I'd love to just get into beforewe get into your expertise, if we

(02:13):
can just get into a little bit aboutyour journey and what it's been
like to get to where you are today.
Yeah, I was reflecting on that storyand, or that idea, and I was trying to
think like, well, what got me here today?
Um, because I didn't set out saying, I'mgoing to be this private practice owner.
I always thought that I would you know,work for the government, you know, child

(02:35):
and youth mental health or something.
Um, I think like, I don't know,how far back do you want me
to go in this thought process?
Wherever your heart takes you, you hadan interview for an internship and that
kind of was a a pivotal moment for you.
So if you want to start there orif you want to go back to, um, your
schooling, like wherever your heart I

(02:56):
think, you know, what sort of touchedon like me being like getting to where
I am is I have a learning disability.
I'm dyslexic.
And so I think my educational journeywas very difficult when I was young.
Um, definitely wasn't super.
Confidence in my learning.
I repeated a grade in grade one,which thank God they don't do
that anymore because that was adifficult thing as a little person.

(03:19):
And I think that sort of has shaped meto be throughout the course of my life.
It was challenging.
And then I got to this placeas an older team, or I kind of
started to get confidence and go.
I think I figured out how to learn whatI need to learn, like I know how I learn,
and I know how to seek what I need,um, and then I did my degree, and I was
like, I'm never, that's good, I've gotmy degree, I'm happy with that, I'm never

(03:43):
going back to school, um, and that wasa challenge too, I think I, you know, I
really struggled in a few classes, faileda few to start with, like I really, it
took me a while to get momentum again,to build that confidence, and again, I
figured out Okay, what do I need to do?
Like, I have really good determination,I think, because of my challenges.
And so I keep, I always end up comingback going, well, what do I need to

(04:04):
figure out to get where I need to be?
And so I, I've kind of figured that out,got my degree, had some kids, and then
decided spontaneously I had a sister inlaw doing a, A masters and a friend who's
going to start our masters and we allhad kids and I was like, let's do it.
And so I started my masters.
And again, it was, it wasa really uphill climb.

(04:26):
You know, I think a cousin of minepointed out to me, she was saying she
was giving a compliment saying she wasreally impressed that I'd gone this far
because Do you think you know most peoplecan uphill climb to go to school but
because of your learning disabilities,it's an extra climb for you and yet you
still kind of push through and persevere.
Um, which, you know,it's funny because to me.

(04:46):
I just, this is how I work, it takes,you know, I know it takes me longer to
do the same thing as some people, but Idon't sit there and think about it because
that's just who I am and how I do it.
But when, you know, having her pointthat out made me really reflect like,
yeah, you're right, like it doestake me more work than the average
person to get to the same results,sometimes on some things, particularly
academics and things like that.
Um, and so that really motivatedme, and yeah, so when I, I did, I

(05:10):
did all this stuff, and then, youknow, again, I was like, I'm done
trying to hit other people's targetsof what's good enough and what's
appropriate, um, with school, right?
Because you learn all the things theywant you to learn, and I'm like, I'm
going to do childhood mental health,and I had a friend get me an intern, or
an interview for an internship, and Iwent in, and the lady was horrendous.

(05:32):
And I was like, I'm going to do that.
And she was like, um, yeah, you'regoing to cry and I'm not going to give
you more clients until you get yourreports right, which the reports are
important in the ministry, but they'renot important for my graduate work.
So she's essentially like, I don't careif you get your hours or not, like,
you're going to learn how to do this.
And I just left and was like, everythingin my body was like, run away, run away.

(05:55):
So, yeah, I walked out of thatgoing, well, that's not happening,
um, but I need an internship.
What am I going to do?
And so I ended up, um, going witha friend to a, um, I think it's a
nonprofit organization, Moving ForwardFamily Services, and they offer free,
low cost, no barrier counseling.
Anyways, he runs it more like you're kindof in a private practice and we had choice

(06:19):
and we could pick and choose and say,like, this is who I want to work with.
This is who I don't want to work with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so out of that, I, you know, andthat was a great experience and I was
kind of like, Oh, I have a choice.
I get to, I get to pick who I work with,which was a novel concept because I think.
We often are just working with whomeverto put in front of us, especially

(06:40):
if you do government work, right?
It's kind of like, this is who you'reworking with, and just figure it out.
And so I left there, and I had afew clients that came with me, and
so I just sort of was like, oh,I'll work one day a week and see
these people privately, and anyways.
Then I went to rent a room at aclinic, which turned into me leaving
my job and working full, anyway, soit's been unfolded to me going, yeah,

(07:01):
this is, this is what I want to do.
And so I worked in a clinic for threeyears and I learned a lot and yeah, and
then I kind of was like, yeah, I'm goingto go off on my own and like do my own
clinic and make my own thing happen.
And so it just kind of has unfolded, butI think my early life experiences make me
sort of a dreamer and it's like, I likea challenge and I like to kind of go, how

(07:22):
am I going to figure out how to do that?
And then I figure it out and I like tochew on something and kind of go at it.
I love that.
Um, I can relate a lot to how youexpressed everything, like even how
you said that you kind of, you foundyourself having these challenges and You

(07:45):
were able to sit there and kind of belike, Okay, this is what I want to do.
How do I get from here to there, evenwith the way that I learn, the way
that I see the world, the way that I'mshowing up now, the, and, and all of
the expectations that are happeningaround me all at the same time.

(08:05):
And yeah, so your story is a greatone to share because there are so many
people that do have to jump a lot moreover a lot more hurdles, um, to getting
to owning their own business, being anentrepreneur, it is, there's so much
behind the scenes that we just don't see.

(08:26):
And this is, this is why I lovethis podcast and sharing stories.
I should say.
That's what I love.
Um, because.
We often only see the highlightreels on social media, or, you know,
we see the fancy websites, we seethe automations, we see all these
things that look like it's easy.
But behind the scenes to get to thatplace takes so much other effort and,

(08:51):
and power and determination and gritand everything that you just sort of
expressed with that and stopping andtaking a minute each time to be like,
okay, I've come to a fork in the road.
Now, where do I go from here?
How do I make this work?
How do I make this happen?
And each time seeing it as, um,another stepping stone to getting

(09:14):
to where we want to get to.
Um, so yeah.
And one of the things that you said too,is that, um, your, so your passion has
unfolded right in front of you and youcontinue to harness it and go with it.
And I really liked howyou said that because.
Going with it is sometimesone of the hardest things.

(09:37):
For us as humans is to just kindof be like, okay, this is where
this is taking me because we havethese expectations from society.
And like you said, to even just gettingthe degree and not having a choice.
So one of my sort of mantrasthat I love, is life on my terms.

(10:02):
And that's something that has gotten methrough, but it took a lot of challenges.
To get to this realization of like,
I can do what I'm passionateabout, but on my terms?
Like, really?
You know?
So I, yeah, I'd love tohear your I was mindblown

(10:23):
when someone said to me, we weretalking about like, you make a
profile as a counsellor to postpublicly about like, this is what
I work with, and this is what I do.
And someone was like, early on, I thinkit was in my practice, and they're
like, oh yeah, like, I don't put onthere that I work with people with
anxiety, like, oh, like not my thing.
And I went.
I was like, we have a choice?
And I was like, I could, oh yeah,and I was like, I'm not going to

(10:44):
work with people that have, like,just strictly depression because
that, that doesn't work for me.
The energy is too lowand I get stuck there.
And I'm like, but it was likethis epiphany of like, I don't
have to put that on my profile.
I can just leave it offand, and not do that.
Right?
Or if someone came to me with that,say like, we're not a match and I
think you should go see so and so.
They'd be great for you, you know?

(11:04):
But yeah, that sort of like autonomyof like, oh, I have choices.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, and that's one thing thathas deterred me over the years
from doing something that Iactually am passionate about.
And I would say even with that counselingor actually, and even I would say like
years and years ago, I was encouragedto become a nurse and the idea of not

(11:27):
having a choice of what patients I endedup having to work with or what jobs that
I would have to do with those patients.
I was like, No, no, that's not for me.
And night shifts, that'snot for me either.
Like I, I'm a date, like I'm awakeduring the day and asleep at night and
I can't do anything different than that.

(11:48):
So I just didn't even look at theidea of nursing any further because I
didn't feel like I would have a choice.
So, um, I think that's a great thing tohighlight is that sometimes even when
we don't think we have a choice, wejust need to be a little more curious.

(12:08):
And open to seeing that there couldbe that possibility of choice.
For sure.
And I think the piece too, like, forme is, I had to come to this place of
realization that I don't necessarily get,I don't necessarily go in the same order
that a neurotypical person would go.
Like, I look at my daughter who'sneurotypical and the way her brain
works, I'm like, wow you are justso like, A equals B equals C, like,

(12:29):
you just get it, you're on fire.
And I'm like.
I look at myself with a problem going,I don't understand and I'm stuck, but
I'll figure out a route around it.
It probably wouldn't be whatsomeone neurotypical beside me
would do, but I'm like, but hey,I get to where I want to be.
Same with building my business.
I'm like, this is what I want.
I'm okay with taking calculatedrisks and setting myself up to

(12:50):
jump, but I, you know, I'm not.
I'm not a daredevil atthe same time either.
I don't just, like,jump off and do things.
I'm like, okay, I can, like, prep andget myself to a place where I can leave
my job or I can do these things, butyeah, just trying to figure out how
to get from A to B for me sometimes Ifeel like is a different route, but.
That's what I like about beingmy own boss is it doesn't matter.

(13:10):
I am the boss.
No one's critiquing me orsaying I'm not doing it right.
I'm like, whatever.
That's the way I'm going to get there.
Yeah, exactly.
And, and coming to that place andhaving the confidence to do it
your way, I think is a huge thing.
A lot of people I finddon't trust themselves
that
they will get to that place, thatthey will be able to accomplish the

(13:33):
goal that they set out to, unlessthey do it this person's way.
Or that person's way andnot really going inward.
Um, and not to say that peoplecan't get to where they want to go
by using someone else's methods.
Um, but I think that what happensis we end up getting a little

(13:54):
disconnected from what we're doing.
Because.
We're not using our, our sort of trustwithin ourselves that we're making
those choices for the right reasons.
We're just following the course.
A
hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
And then we're like riddled withanxiety because we're like, what if
I make someone upset along the way?

(14:15):
This is what I see in my practice, right?
This fear of like, what ifI upset somebody though?
You're like, but if you're livingyour true self, you're not like
intentionally being malicious or unkind.
You just have a different vision.
That's okay, right?
Like, how do I lean into that and,and move with it versus like stuffing
it to make everyone else happy?
Exactly.
That's one of the things, that's,well, in the last couple years, that's

(14:38):
one of my, my, I've had a few sort ofbig, Big, I don't know, epiphanies,
aha moments, like lessons that I'vekind of started to realize and learn.
And, and that's one of them is justbeing honest with myself and then
being honest with the people around me.
You specialize in what one of the thingsthat really stood out to me was trauma

(15:01):
and burnout and also first respondersbecause one of my best friends was a
first responder for many years and Ialways in the back of my mind had her in
my thoughts about, you know, how to dealwith with that, but a general term would
be trauma because they deal with that too.
You specialize in burnout.

(15:23):
Do you have tips for people tobasically keep themselves motivated
or keep the momentum going?
Um, when they start to see thatburnout is Starting to feel a
little heavy and come down on them.
Yeah, like, sort ofhow to counteract that.

(15:45):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think, you know, the firstthing I talk about with people, and
I think sometimes people that areprone to burnout struggle with maybe
boundaries and learning to say no.
Um, so we, I talk about like, whatare the red flags, so that we know
for next time, what are the redflags that are leading up to you?
Getting to this place, right?
I would be feeling really negativeor crying a lot or not sleeping.

(16:08):
Like, what are the things so thatnext time if we start to go down that
road, you can start to go, Oh, theseare my signs that I might need to,
like, pull back sooner because thenI can catch it sooner, um, and, and
not get as far down that road, right?
But I think the other piece iswhere can I learn To start saying
no, or not, and I think for womenparticularly, it's very hard.

(16:30):
We're people pleasers, we have kids,we're multitasking, and so this, my mantra
that I found really helpful when I wasfeeling overwhelmed as a young mom was,
it's not no, it's just not right now.
So we can have all the things we want.
It doesn't mean we can havethem all at once though.
Maybe I can't have six kids and a hugecareer because that's too much right now.

(16:54):
But five, ten years from now that mightbe something that's achievable, right?
Um, or starting my ownbusiness or whatever it is.
It's like, but we have to paceourselves with what else is going on.
Otherwise we spread ourselves too thin.
And so learning how to just say,no, I can't do that right now
and being comfortable in it.
Because I think we think, oh, well, ifI say a boundary, I should feel okay.

(17:16):
But it's like, people say, oh,no, I can't do that, and then
they're riddled with guilt.
And like, Oh, I feel so bad and Ishut up and I'm not doing enough
and it's learning how to go.
Sometimes setting aboundary feels yucky, right?
Especially if I'm not used to doing it.
So I might have to say no to somethingand then I have to realize that as soon
as I say it, I'm going to feel yucky.
But I can walk away and I can managethat and I can learn to like talk

(17:39):
myself through it and get myself tothe other side because in the bigger
picture, I know that this is what'sbetter for me to have that balance.
Yeah.
So yeah, I think thoseare, those are key ones.
But yeah, the no, it's notno, it's just not right now.
It's often like, I find thatone really helpful because we do
have dreams and ambitions, right?

(18:00):
But sometimes we, we have themcollide all at once with other
periods of times in our life.
And it's just too much.
And it's, it's inhuman what weexpect ourselves to do in a day.
And so a lot of what I do too is goinglike, let's look at our expectations
and kind of saying back to peoplewhat they're expecting of themselves.
And when they hear someone elsesay it, they're like, Oh yeah,

(18:21):
like I wouldn't expect my mom ormy friend or my sister to do that.
But man, I cannot make a mistake.
I have to be on it.
I have to do all these things.
And just hearing what that soundslike from another person, I
think helped people go, Oh, okay.
Maybe my expectations are too high.
Like, If my bar is up here all thetime, and I'm never hitting it,

(18:42):
I'm going to feel depressed andfrustrated and not good enough.
So I talk about like, how do we loweryour bar just a little bit, so you can
hit it more often, so you can feel moresuccessful, so you can feel more like,
I've got this, and have that confidence.
Yes, exactly.
I, I love that.
And that's also been one of the biggestsort of things for me is to learn

(19:05):
to slow down, which is also loweringthat bar of expectations on myself.
Cause yeah, I can, I, I can fill upwhat I call a turkey platter super easy.
Like I don't just have a dinner plate.
I have a turkey platter and then I'mtrying to fill it up because I feel like.
If I can do all this and then that'swhen, you know, I'll feel success,

(19:29):
successful, or, you know, I, I've, Ican call myself a professional or I
can use this label or that label or,actually feel like I'm a business woman.
And, it's so interesting to thatthese, these ideas that we have.
And as you mentioned.
When someone else is sharing with ustheir expectations of themselves, we're

(19:55):
like, whoa, no, hold on, like, do youhear your expectations are not realistic?
Like, let's, let's help you with that.
But then we turn around and we gohave our own high expectations.
It's like we're always willing tooffer help to somebody, but God
forbid, we don't want to ask for it.
Right?
Yes.

(20:17):
Which is interesting.
I feel like that.
I mean, I'm talking about women.
I do feel like for us.
There is so much pressure from themoment that we enter this world.
I feel like, and now with likeroles used to be so clear in a

(20:40):
household of what, what the roleswere based on gender and everything.
And now so many women are trying to dosomething different than those because
it doesn't feel aligned with them.
And yet by default, It seems like wefall back to feeling like we also have

(21:00):
to accomplish those roles as well.
And that's also where the dinner platebecomes a turkey platter because we're
trying to do all these different things.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
For sure, yeah, I mean, burnoutis a hard one and so many
people suffer from it, right?
I think I look at it, you know,too, who, who are, who are we,

(21:20):
like, comparing ourselves to, right?
Are we looking at the super highachieving friend or are we just looking
at our average friend here, right?
Um, you know, with first responders Ifind too with like burnout, it's like,
well, I find myself like feeling reallyemotional about these files at work.
I'm like, yeah, because you dohorrendous, horrendous work and

(21:40):
you're immersed in it every day.
Well, yeah, but my colleaguesdon't cry about it.
And I'm like, yeah.
But that's okay.
And I'm like, everyone has thisdifferent level of tolerance.
And sometimes we go through phases wheresomething touches us more and it's hard.
And, and don't assume your colleaguesdon't have challenges with their work.
They do.
It just shows up differently or they'rein a different phase right now than you.

(22:02):
Um, and so look at whoyou're comparing yourself to.
Like, You're very normal comparedto the normal population.
What you're upset about is verynormal, but you're comparing yourself
to people who are highly trainedto deal with super yucky things.
And so that's not a fair comparison.
You know what I mean?
I think that is a great point.

(22:24):
Um, and valid like place to discussit to because the comparison trap.
What's the saying that I, I try toremind myself to compare brings despair
like that is something that I'vealways thought of and I'm like, and.
And I try to like, as soon asI get to that place, it's like,

(22:44):
Megan, remember to compare bringsdespair, like get out of there.
Don't like, don't give it another secondthought, like get out of that space.
Um, and it has been a huge, huge.
Work in progress because we often arecompared throughout our lives when we're
children we're compared whether it's toa sibling or to a cousin or to some other

(23:09):
person that our parents want to want usto aspire to and and all the things like
and it's verbalized it's not just impliedsometimes it's actually verbalized this
person look what they're doing in theirlives and also the opposite of that like
We compared to positive things, but wealso compared to negative things as well.

(23:31):
So if someone is behaving a certain way orgetting in trouble, we will bring that up.
Um, you know, don't be like that person.
You know, so there's like, there'scomparison embedded in so many
parts of our lives, it's 100%.
Yeah.
But I think like you were saying, andhow you were getting through schooling

(23:57):
and everything is, is really just goinginward and focusing on how you yourself
can get through the challenges toget to the place that you want to go.
And that's one of the places that Ifeel like has been the most helpful
for me is like, okay, where am I at?
What stage or phase of life am I at?
And does it make sense to havethese expectations of where I'm at?

(24:20):
And that was even for me, oneof the biggest lessons last year
was I was doing a lot of marketsfor another side business I have.
And it was taking time away frommy child who is not neurotypical
and does require a lot more for me.
And that was becoming a hard partbecause I was starting to feel anxious.

(24:44):
Even just applying for marketsof what was going to happen right
before the market, during themarket, and then after the market.
And it was no longer feeling goodfor me to go to these markets.
So I'm like, this isn't working inthis phase of my life and this stage.
And, um, and so I was like, I'mjust, I just, Not gonna do it.

(25:07):
And that's again where I was like, okay,but I really love my side business.
So how do I make it work?
How do I still make it work within,within the threshold of what's
happening under my roof right now?
And was able then to be like,okay, well choice autonomy.

(25:27):
How do I bring that into mylife in this phase and stage?
So these are all thequestions that I feel like.
Once we slow down, we can actuallyprocess and ask ourselves, but if we're
on a hamster wheel, it's that piece ofslowing down that I feel like we are.

(25:48):
Yeah.
So do you have, like, how doyou do that when you feel like
you're getting into that sort of.
Um, thought process or way of likebeing on a hamster wheel, do you
have something that you have foundthat helps you to be like, okay,
I see what's happening right now.
And I just need to pause to remindmyself that I'm getting to that place.

(26:15):
I think, again, it goes back to this,what are those red flags for me?
I'm starting to feel really anxious a lot.
I'm not sleeping.
I'm not being the parentthat I want to be.
I'm not showing up how I want to as aparent, or maybe, you know, for my clients
or for my husband or whatever, right?
Like, I'm feeling too spread thin, andone of the things I do with my clients
and I do with myself is that, like, likeyou're saying, that conflict between

(26:36):
wanting to do markets and your child.
It's like, if we stop and go, I'm Okay, ifI just turn inward and listen to my body
and I think about doing all these marketsright now, what goes on in my body?
Oh, I just feel tension and stress.
I don't feel joy and excitement.
I feel this like, ugh, becauseI know my child's at home
struggling and I'm not there.
Okay, now if I let go of that and say,I'm going to let go of those markets and

(26:59):
I'm going to stay home with my child.
What goes on in my body?
Ugh, I can take a breath, I can breathe,I feel lighter, like, our body knows.
We're just so used to notlistening to it and being up here.
And so learning how to be like,oh, if I kind of put myself in both
those situations, what goes on?
Which one feels better?
That's where I need to be right now.

(27:20):
That's what I need to be focusing on.
And then trying to like, pull back, right?
Okay, my family, I have to rememberit's not, no, it's not right now.
And I'm going to pull backbecause it's my family right now.
I can build this later.
Oh, I love that.
When my children were younger,one of the things that stood

(27:41):
out for me was the power of yet.
And even with them, that's onething that I tried to work on with
them was like, okay, you're not,you're not getting this right now.
Like you're whatever it might be thatthey're working on, whether it's like
drawing a specific picture, it's notlike you said, it's not, no, it's

(28:04):
just that there's things that needto happen before you can get to that.
So, um, uh, No, you can't draw it rightnow, but let's look at it differently.
It's yet like you don't have theskills yet to draw that specific
type of picture or what have you, orcreate that, um, but we're going to

(28:25):
get there, we're going to get there.
So, yeah, that's.
And again, going back to what you'resaying about the pausing and checking
on the red flags, I think thatthat has definitely been a tool to
help for sure is going inward andchecking with how our body's feeling.
And again, we might feel that right now,but in a year from now and practicing

(28:51):
all that checking in, we, and we couldbe in a different phase and stage
where we actually are able to say yes.
Absolutely.
Right.
Yeah.
And what's the point of doingit if I'm going to be riddled
with anxiety while I'm doing it?
Like, then I'm not enjoying it.
And again, I'm not showing up inmy life how I want to show up.
I'm just ticking the boxes to saythat I'm doing all these things,
which is great, but I'm burnt outand overwhelmed and not super happy.

(29:14):
Okay, well, is it worth it?
Yeah, exactly.
Checking the boxes.
Yeah, that's exactly how I lived mostof my, most of my life until, you know,
just a few years ago, it was literallyjust checking the boxes all the way and
then it all of a sudden, same thing.

(29:35):
It was just like I was lying thereand I'm like, Wow, how did I get here?
First of all, because I don'treally know how I got here.
It's a bit of a blur.
I checked all the boxes.
I don't know if I enjoyed checkingall the boxes, but I just did it.
And now I don't really knowwhat to do with my life, because
I've gone and checked all theboxes that I had on my list.

(29:58):
But I'm not necessarily happy, butI did the things I'm supposed to
do, but I didn't do the things Iwanted to do, or I didn't show up
how I wanted to show up, right?
And I think that's what life's about, islearning how to show up how we want to
show up so we can live in the joy of lifeand the experience and the fun of it.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think there is something tobe said sometimes for doing the

(30:22):
hard thing and getting to that placeand taking a little bit of a risk.
But if we're constantly sitting inanxiety where we're not even present
or able to be present, then we're notgoing, we're going to be so disconnected

(30:42):
from whatever it is that we're doing.
That's what I've noticed with myselfanyways, is, is And then I don't have
an attachment to that, um, and then I'mlike, well, that wasn't actually so great.
Why didn't I listen to myself?
It's calculated anxiety, like, I knowthat this next venture is going to
be scary and stressful, but like, I'mprepared for it, and I have the space

(31:06):
in my life to do it, versus I'm justcramming it in, and then I'm anxious.
Yes, and I think that is, um, That'swhat my thought process was about
about bringing up like doing somethingthat is hard like yes It's important
sometimes to push ourselves a little bit.
But but like you said as well, it'slike It's the acceptance around it.
It's the acceptance and it's theknowing that it is going to be hard

(31:30):
I'm accepting that it's going tobe hard because the idea of coming
out of there makes me feel good
Yeah
versus the other opposite of it.
Yeah.
I like the idea of the challenge.
It's anxiety provoking, but excitingversus like, I'm locked down in anxiety
and fear because I'm overwhelmed.
I'm not coping.
I'm not ready for this.

(31:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
One of the things that although we'vecovered a few tips and everything, but
if someone is and I think a lot of peoplesay has gone through that they've accepted
that there's going to be some challengesand they're they're fighting through
all that they're still experiencing somejoy out of what they're the challenge

(32:14):
that they chose to go on through.
What are some tips for just keepingup with the momentum and the
motivation through those challenges?
I think it's about trying to have,you know, find balance when you can.
I think when we're doing allthat stuff, there's a lot going
on, and so, how do I remember toschedule in, like, some time off?

(32:36):
I think, especially for entrepreneurs,we don't have nine to five office
hours, and we can become obsessed.
with our work because any given moment,Oh, I can just post on social media.
I can just answer that email.
I can do this.
I can do that.
But we're always on then.
And we have to give our brain a breakso that we can decompress so that
we can regroup and kick butt later.

(32:58):
And so how do we like consciouslybe like, no, tonight is movie night,
like, or date night or whatever,like, this is what I'm doing.
And I'm not going to talk about work.
I'm not going to check my email Youknow, like, I have timers, I have my
emails, my work emails don't send inthe evening and on weekends, so I have
to literally go into it, right, becauseall those little things on our phone

(33:19):
jog our mind to always be connected,and so how do I start to pull back from
the connection and be like, nope, if aclient reaches out to me at 8 o'clock
on a Saturday, I don't need to respond.
I don't even need to know it'sthere, but you know what I mean?
So that I'm not dippinginto work constantly.
I'm giving myself that full break off sothat I can really manage all the balls

(33:39):
in the air when I am taking on a lot.
Because we do take on a lot consciouslysometimes, but how do I go in
knowing what I need to survive it?
I love that.
I think years ago Apple came outwith this whole like, you can put
um, these like timers on, on certainapps And I was actively really trying

(34:02):
very hard to reduce my screen time.
Uh, cause it was quite shocking to seehow long how much I was on the screen.
So I put on these timers forall these different apps.
And when I've reachedmy limit, it grays out.
Well, after so long of doingthat, I would bypass the timer.

(34:24):
So now it's interesting because theother day my daughter's like, Why,
why do you have that on there ifyou're always saying ignore timer?
I was like, oh no!
I need to, I think I'm spending more timepressing ignore timer than I am actually

(34:45):
like actively on the thing anyways.
But, oh my goodness.
Having those is, I agree.
I think we've gotten into this.
Habit of allowing other people'ssort of urgency become our urgency.
And I'm, I'm totally guilty of doing that.

(35:07):
Um, but again, that also is goingback into setting those boundaries.
Um, and being like, okay, no, myboundary is that I'm not going
to drop what I'm doing because.
I feel good in the momentfor showing up for you.
However, afterwards I'm a little bit, youknow, feeling drained or what have you.

(35:31):
Um, so and it's noticing those thingsand then being able to to say no the
next time and be like, yeah, rememberhow you felt the last time you said
yes, but it was Coming from a differentplace and you crossed your own boundary
and how that made you feel, so.
And it's tricky, I think, too, likepeople with their watches that send

(35:51):
text messages, like I have people insession and they're crying and all of
a sudden they're looking at their phonebecause someone's sending a message.
I mean, occasionally there's reasonsthey're like, I'm sorry, my child's
having a rough day or something at school.
Fine, but it's like, oh, it's just work.
They want me to work overtime.
And I'm like, but you're burnt out.
And you're not going to recoverif you cannot disconnect.
They can wait an hour, why do wehave to have them on in your hour?

(36:14):
Where do we put that boundary in tosay, I'm in therapy, or I'm having
a nap, or I'm spending family time.
I'm just going to turn it off, like Idon't need to have every text message,
and I don't need to respond, likeyou're saying, I don't need to respond.
I spend so much time talking with peopleabout, just because someone texts you.
Doesn't mean you have to respond.
Get it the next day.
Like put your, turn your, turn allyour notifications off at a certain

(36:37):
time and just have a break, right?
But people are like, but I haveto, we get into this like sense of
urgency and I have to respond andit's like, no, it's just a bad habit.
It's so true.
It really is a habit.
And years ago, uh, you know, if someonetexted me, I did, I, I would be like,

(36:59):
Okay, and I would stop everything and,like, if it was a big, long text because
they're going through something, I wouldstop everything that I was doing and be
like, okay, I'm going to focus on this.
My time is now in this.
Now I'm invested in this becauseI'm reading it, so I better reply.
And it took me a while tounderstand and to learn that.

(37:20):
I can either choose not to readit, or if I do choose to read
it, I can choose not to respond.
I can also choose to say I've readit when I have more time to respond.
I will respond.
You know, we have so many choices.
Um, we just need to remind ourselvesthat we do actually have both choices.

(37:44):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And who did I, you know, am I outfor dinner with my husband when
I'm getting this text message andnow I'm ignoring him because, oh,
Jane's having a really hard time.
I just have to read this quickly.
Well, now I'm totally disconnectedfrom what was going on with us and
I'm not present for this person.
Right.
And it's rude.
Well, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think it's etiquettearound all of that.

(38:10):
Also, I think I have my own sortof, um, etiquette that I like, like,
dinner in the house with the family.
Zero bones.
Like, they're not even,I don't want to see.
A phone at the table.
Mm-Hmm.
. And my husband has two phones,one personal one for work.
He always has them.

(38:30):
And I'm like,
down,
can you look?
Yeah.
And, and it seems the table was myboundary and, and it's been good.
He is been good.
He's, he is showed up to dinnerwithout the, without the phones
nearly every single time.
So that's good.
Yeah.
But other than that, it's like, theredoesn't seem to be, um, another break.

(38:55):
You know, like meal times, it seems easy.
Everyone's focused on eatingmost of the time anyways.
Yeah.
But it's interesting.
Like I saw this thing, I can't rememberwhere I saw it, but it was this, like
someone who was kind of pointing outphone use and they're like, you know, what
does it say when you go out for dinnerwith a friend and you put your phone
face up on the table in front of you?
Like I'm here with you untilsomething comes through my phone.

(39:16):
But then sometimes we'repolite about it and we put it.
So I'm still with you, but I'm stillsort of attached to my phone versus
I've turned it off, put it in mypurse or left it in the car and it's
not even present in the conversation.
It feels different when youthink about it that way, right?
It's like, oh, now you'renot distracted at all.
And maybe take your watch off ifyou have one of those watches.

(39:37):
I do.
It's funny.
Like I'm not attached to the watch, butI do find that, um, when I do have it on.
It's like, oh, oh, and it was actually acouple of weeks ago, I went to some like
yoga class and I, I had it on and it was.

(40:01):
vibrating.
I don't have notifications likesound on my phone or anything.
Um, but on the watch it does vibrateand I'm trying to enjoy this yoga
class so that I can, I can just like,you know, just be in the moment and
be with myself and take that timefor sort of just being present and,

(40:23):
and taking my self care moment.
And.
I'm getting these messages that are,I'm like, I don't have time for this.
I did.
I ripped the watch off, but through it.
Cause I was like, I had to, I, and Ihad to do it that way because I knew if
I didn't take it off, it's such a habitto look that I just continue looking.

(40:48):
told myself, don't respond, don't look.
I literally had to, but your
brain's hijacked as soonas it vibrates, right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
And so how do we do selfcare and burnout recovery?
When we're constantly allowing ourselvesto be hijacked out of a moment where
we're supposed to be present, but we'renot allowing ourselves to be present
because we have our phone in our pocket,we have our watches on, whatever, right?

(41:11):
Like, we're not really in the moment then.
We're in and out of the moment, butwe're not, we're not recuperating.
Mm.
Exactly.
And exactly.
And if we're not recuperating, we'rejust the cycle will just continue if we
don't take that time and allow ourselvesour, our minds, our bodies, however,

(41:32):
we need to, to be to recuperate, thenit's just going to be an ongoing cycle,
right?
Yeah, but clickbait, yeah,social media and stuff, all that
stuff, it's so, so like, oh,default, default, default, right?
And it's like, it's amazing when wereally stop and start looking, how often
do I have, noticing that impulse, howoften do I have an impulse to hit that?

(41:53):
Holy, like every 30 seconds, it's,
yeah, it's awful.
And I say all this, butI'm at fault for it too.
I do all this stuff, right?
It's just starting tobe aware of the stuff.
Like, where am I?
I'm not doing well.
I'm really tired, anxious, burnt out.
Now I really need to start payingattention to all this stuff because
this is impacting me right now.
Maybe last week it was fine.
Maybe last week I had spacefor it and it didn't bother me.

(42:17):
Last week I had space and capacityfor doing all these different
things, but this week I don't,well, what's going on this week?
What's wrong with me this week?
Yeah.
Instead of adjusting expectations, right?
I think that's where we don't, it'slike, yeah, sometimes I have a week and
I rock it out and I have great sleeps.
Then I'm on my A game and it's great.
And then other weeks I'm dragging myself.

(42:37):
Like, I don't want to get out of bed.
I'm so tired.
Right?
That's fine.
That's the cycle of life.
We're never always on our A game.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think having patience and, andeverything for ourselves and everything.
And like you said, to sort of just.
Focus not focusing, but acknowledgingthe flags that are coming up and then

(42:59):
steering ourselves in, you know, adirection that we need to go so that
we don't, um, go over the edge andjust kind of like bring ourselves back
down and be more present and slow down.
I know for myself.
Um, you know, I can even caffeine.
Caffeine changes for me.

(43:21):
Like one day I can drink a wholepot, it doesn't do anything, and then
the next day my heart is racing andpounding, and I'm like, what is going on?
What is happening inside me?
And it's like, You did justdrink a whole pot of coffee.
Like, it's so interesting, but yeah.

(43:41):
But now I'm aware and I, and now that Ihave the awareness that sometimes caffeine
will have a different effect on medepending on what's going on as well, then
it's like, I think it's just the caffeine.
We're okay.
We're okay.
Way to know.
But we did the other side
eventually.
Exactly.

(44:02):
I'd love to go a little bit backinto sort of your roadblocks to, for
this journey that you've been on.
Because one of the things that you didbring up was not being neurotypical.
So in a lot of language peoplewould use neurodivergent.
Is that what you would say for yourself?
Yeah.

(44:22):
Yeah.
So how do you find being Anentrepreneur and business owner.
And that, how have you foundthat you've been able to still
move through all the challenges?
I think again, it's that pieceof, I don't necessarily, I don't
think I do it the same way thatthe person beside me would do it.

(44:45):
I, I, I kind of just.
You know, I kind of think I'm a bit ofa dreamer, and I, I kind of get an idea,
and then I'm like, okay, and I juststart, I don't necessarily, you know,
I think some people are like, this ismy plan, and they have a vision, and
they have steps, and I'm like, I justkind of jump in one step at a time,
and like start chipping away, chippingaway at it, to get to my bigger goal.

(45:07):
I don't have this elaborate, laid out planof all the things I'm going to do, per se.
Yeah, I think.
Just sort of jumping in and trying,yeah, trying it different ways, right?
Has there been, have you had mentorsand people that have helped you that
have also had similar challenges asyou that you have been able to sort

(45:27):
of bounce different ideas off of?
And what kind of supporthave you had throughout?
I think, you know, it's different.
I think, like, through my education andstuff, I definitely had the tutors and
supports, the things, like, I had, Ihad that stuff to help guide me because
there's more structure to that and,and what you're learning and how you're
learning it, I think, as an adult.

(45:50):
No, I think that is somethingI've struggled with.
Like, I'm like, I, you know, nowI think in the last year or so, I
do have more, like, colleagues andfriends that are building their own
practices and doing the same thing.
But until a year or so ago, Ididn't really have that community.
And so I was kind You know, Iwould just kind of like siphon
bits of information off peoplehere and there and Facebook groups.

(46:11):
And, and I think I startedbuilding my, my ideas a long time
ago before I even got momentum.
So I kind of like created this knowledgebase slowly over time so that when
I was ready to take off, I kind ofhad a sense of what I was doing.
Um, but it's been challenging notnecessarily having role models
to be like, Hey, how do I do it?

(46:32):
Like, what do I do?
I think the good thing in my field iswe all go to school to be counselors
and not business people, and so there'sa lot of counselors who have businesses
who have created trainings on howto build the business, and so that's
what I started leaning on in the lastyear of like, what do I need to know?
Okay, there's a training on this,this, like how to manage your,
your finances and your business.

(46:53):
Okay, great.
I'm going to take thatand learn how to do that.
And then that piece of, I do nowhave friends who are neurodivergent
as well, who have practices.
Some are bigger than mine.
And, and so we're really greatresources and we get together regularly
and kind of, you know, brainstormideas or problem solve together.
What did you do?
How do you do that?
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.

(47:13):
Well, and one of the words that youbrought up, which I, I think is key is
community and finding, finding people thatyou can relate to and, um, whether they've
gone through exactly the same challengesor, or anything, just having people around
you that, um, you feel safe with to alsohave in your corner and support you.

(47:39):
Yeah.
I think is so important.
I know
we don't all have the answers and Idon't, you know, there's that saying
that we're not meant to do this alone.
And I think that that is somethingthat we struggle with because again,
going back to what has been it.
I think also for women is pressure tofigure things out and do things alone.

(48:04):
So it's like, where's thatvillage, you know, where's that,
we say it takes a village fora family and to raise our kids.
It also takes a village to do allthese other things in life as well.
Yeah.
And I think, I did my master's program.
It was a hundred percent online.
And so I think that was something whenI got out of school, I really was like,

(48:25):
I don't have this strong village becauseeveryone was virtual all over the place.
And so I made a couple friends.
Um, but I didn't have like a tightcommunity or class that I went through
school with and graduated with.
And I really missed that piece.
Like I was like that.
Sucks, because that's really what I want.
And I've ended up reconnecting with acouple ladies who I worked with in my 20s.

(48:48):
We worked at similar jobs, andwe've all gone on our own paths.
But we've all got our masters, allstarted private practices, and we
connected on social media by accident.
And now we're like a reallygood community for each other.
And so that has probably been themost helpful for me to just sort of
give me this place to, like, throwout ideas, get ideas, brainstorm, and
that safe place, like you're talkingabout, like, who can I go to that

(49:10):
wants to listen to me talk about mystruggles and can give me feedback?
Yeah, yeah.
And feedback is another importantthing, too, and So having the safe
people and the safe space to beable to one, ask for feedback.
I think it's really important for,for us as humans to, to be able to be

(49:36):
and feel other people's perspectiveswhen it comes to what, what questions
we have and what we're asking.
And sometimes that is hard is, you know,to hear someone else's, um, feedback if
we take things personal or something.
Yeah,
but I think we all
sort of have a shared vision ofbuilding our private practices and,

(49:57):
and that's where it's like, okay, weall kind of have the same questions.
We're all going through the same phases.
Some of us are different phases,but we're either going through
it or have been through it.
Or we've talked to somebody who's beenthrough it and we have other ideas.
And so, yeah, that community is huge.
Yeah.
I've, I've been able to findcommunity in so many different ways.

(50:17):
And one of them is doing the podcast.
And every time someone comes onand I'm hearing a story, there's
so much things that are relatable,but there's so many things that I
feel like, because it's a differentperspective of the same challenge
it can hit differently for people.
And that's one thing we can listento the same Things over and over,

(50:40):
but depending on also where we'reat in what stage or phase of our
life, it will land differently.
We might've heard the same thing10 years ago from somebody else,
but it, we weren't ready to evenhear that at that time anyways.
That's the other interesting thingabout being in community is you, you
do you get different perspectives.

(51:02):
And I think there'ssomething to be said about
having, having people fromdifferent upbringings as well
into it, because I think it bringsa different level of thought.
different level of feedback, differentlevel of answers to questions and things.
So, and I think it's all importantto listen to and to hear as well.

(51:24):
And we can all sort oftake, take it or leave it.
And that's our choice that we have whensomeone is sharing their, their way of
doing things, we can take it or leave it.
So we've talked a lot about theflags and checking in and everything.
What are some surprisingconnections that you've had

(51:45):
over the course of your journey?
What do you mean by
that?
Have you made connectionswith like, is it?
So when I first wrote that question, it'sIt's I've made connections with different
people along my path that I was like, oh,I don't think I would have ever made that
connection with you had I not been doingthis, or had I not hit this goal of mine.

(52:10):
It can also be just, Connections as far,so it can be a relationship connections
or just connections in seeing thatgoing through a challenge can bring
us to a success story kind of thing.
What connections have, I mean,I think one of the connections
I've made are realizations.
I mean, as a counselor, we knowpeople are resilient and you

(52:32):
know, all this stuff, but like.
It, it still amazes me, which is whatI like about my job, is it's all,
always different, but like, seeingjust how much people can change.
I have people come in, in horriblemental states, who are really unstable,
and really, really struggling, and whenwe have the time to put in the work,
like, I'm always surprised at like, It'slike you see some, you meet somebody

(52:55):
in this horrible place, so you don'tknow what they're like when they're
normal, like, is this their normal place?
Or what are they like whenthey're healthy, right?
I don't know, I don't knowwhat their baseline is.
And then to work with them for monthsor years and watch them transform
and come to this other place, you'relike, wow, like you can reflect back
and go, you were in such a dark place,like, seeing how far you've come.

(53:16):
And so just like the resiliency ofpeople and like how far they can come.
And what they can getthrough on their own.
I mean, people are like, Icouldn't do this without you.
And I'm like, you do itwithout me all the time.
You see me one hour, maybeonce a week, if we're lucky.
Right.
And yet you manage all this reallyhard stuff in between on your own.

(53:37):
Um, maybe it doesn't look pretty,maybe it's not easy, but you're,
you're getting through it right.
Until we get to this better place.
And so, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I can see, and thatwould be so interesting.
Um, To have it on the outside, becausemost of the time we're on the inside.

(53:58):
And when we are like, wow, Ican't believe that was where I
was in that place of my life.
And now I'm here, we forgetall that sort of in between
stuff because we're out of it.
And now we're like, weforgot how bad it was.
But even just seeing thephysical shift in people, like
just the strain on their face.

(54:19):
And, like, people can look like completelydifferent people as they start to, like,
settle and get into a better place.
You're like, wow, like, it just, it,they live, they can, yeah, they can
look like totally different people.
Oh, yeah.
Well, thank you for that answer.
Um, Is there anything or anyother points that you want to

(54:39):
touch on about your practice orabout your journey or anything?
What goals or, what goals, doyou have any dreams or goals?
Because you said that you're a bit ofa dreamer, so do you have, do you have
anything, do you set yearly goals or doany kind of that sort of thing and then
work towards it throughout the year?

(55:01):
Sure.
Not yearly, I think my goalsjust evolve as I evolve.
I mean I recently just made a big movefrom the mainland to the island and so
that's been really good but I've beenkind of holding myself back professionally
because I knew the move was coming and sonow I've got my own office space, I've got
it all set up and so I think my next goallike from a business stance is to bring

(55:24):
on associates and kind of like get morepeople in here and helping more people.
Um, I think personally, it's just thatmy goal is always to find that balance
between family, work, and life, and howdo, how do I keep, kind of keep it status
quo, right, not go too far one way orthe other, because it is really easy

(55:46):
to get, like, excited about work, and Iwant to jump in, and I want to work more,
and I want to see more people, becauseI love doing that, but then my family
suffers, or I'm tired, and my husband'sa shift worker, so, you know, that's a
hard piece too, and so, how do I temper,My expectations with what I can do right
now at this phase in my life so that Ican show up for my kids, too, because I

(56:06):
don't want to be the grumpy mom or theone that says, no, we can't do that.
No, I'm too tired.
No, I don't want it.
I have work to do.
Um, I want to be the yes mom, you know,that's like, yeah, let's go to the park.
Let's do the thing.
Let's try that out.
And so, you know, you have to have acertain amount of energy for that, too.
For sure.
Well, it's interesting that you evenput it that way, because I find.
That's how I try to scheduleis to be the yes mom.

(56:31):
So when I look at my schedule,I'm like, okay, so now I've got
this filled up in this filled up.
Where have I allowed for myself to beable to say yes, yes, to play dates.
Yes to having kids over yes togoing out and having an adventure
or doing that kind of thing.
Where do I get to say yes.

(56:53):
Yeah.
And that's kind of howI look at my schedule.
I used to try all the different timeblocking or task, you know, blocking
and now it's just like, Fill it up,but allow time to say yes for a thing.
I've learned the hard way.
I hit burnout a few times in mylife, and I'm like, I just don't

(57:13):
want to keep repeating this.
Like, how do I?
And so it has to be very conscious,otherwise I will fall back into that.
And I'm like, I do notwant to get there again.
Like, it is not a fun place to be.
And so, yeah, like, where's the balance?
Yeah, exactly.
I, I, well, same and burnout fallinginto burnout is what actually changed the

(57:35):
trajectory of what I do and how I showup because it, it was an awful place.
It was a really awful place.
And once I got out of that, thatone, I did start looking for the
red flags and I was able to start,but it still took so much practice.
Yeah.
And, um, I mean, it's yearsand everybody's different.

(57:59):
Some people can, you know, get outof burnout and just, that's that.
And, and, you know,don't easily fall back.
I also can easily fall back into things.
Like I said, I have a turkey platter.
I'm not very good atportioning out my dinner.
I really like somethingit's going on there.

(58:19):
It's a really big portion of it.
Um, but I, I have had to, to learn to, um,gale things back because of that as well.
I think burnout, burnout, I think, um,and it shows up differently as well.
So how it showed up years ago.

(58:39):
It doesn't show up the same anymore,but that's also again because the
practice of, of watching for it, Ithink, um, How far down the rabbit
hole do you get now, right?
Now that you know that you can getthere, I think it's easier to catch it.
That's why I talk aboutthe red flags, right?
If we can catch it sooner, the climbout is going to be so much easier.
Whereas if we're down that hole andin the well, like we're stuck and

(59:02):
that's a really hard, hard climb.
And I have clients I've seenfor like, My longest client with
burnout was two years that I saw herbefore she could go back to work.
She was, and even then it was still,you know, very sensitive because
it was so deep, her burnout, right?
And on so many different levels.
Well that, and, andthat, exactly, exactly.

(59:23):
I could talk about burnout forever.
But that's because Anyone that's
been there knows what it's like, andit's like, I don't want to go back.
Right.
And then I think people get fearfultoo of like, I've been burnt out
and then we get anticipatory anxietyabout what if I get there again, like
I'm afraid to do something becauseI'm afraid I'll end up back there.
And it's like, well, no, it's again,how do we have that balance, right?

(59:45):
So we can do that thing, butnot spiral out of control.
Anticipatory anxiety was.
exactly what happened.
Like once I felt like I was out of therabbit hole, then it was like, okay,
but now how do I keep myself out?
And how do I not go back?
And I couldn't touch the idea of goingback to the career that I had, um,

(01:00:10):
for quite a while because of that.
But then that's when I waslike, But I actually do.
I, I did love my job.
I loved what it, I loveda lot of things about it.
So how can I live a life on my terms,enjoying something that I love to
do and not go back into burnout?

(01:00:32):
How can I do that?
Um, and, and it also came with,A lot of self worth work and
believing that I have value.
Even if I don't work 14 hours a day,I still bring value and that I'm worth

(01:00:57):
having this career and doing what I love.
Um, but also on my terms as well.
And that that's okay toask for what we need.
And I think, um, the red flags and, um,And understanding I'm, and I, it's taken
so much practice because people pleasing,like, even if you work for yourself,

(01:01:17):
even if you own your business and youhave tendencies of people pleasing,
um, you know, it can, again, it canbe easy to start saying yes, when you
really want to, or should have said no.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then how do I backtrack?
If I find myself saying yes, and I'm like,Oh, shoot, I wasn't going to do that.
How do I get out of this now?
Right.

(01:01:38):
How do I allow myself to change mymind and say, I thought that was
okay, but I've actually realizedit's not going to work for me.
Right.
Well, I do that with mykids because sometimes I say
yes, or sometimes I say no.
And if I, usually when I say no aboutsomething, it's usually because I'm
in some sort of state of anxietyabout it, about something, whether

(01:01:59):
it's my own stuff or whatever.
And then I'll sit there andI'll think, Oh, I don't feel
good that I said no about that.
Right.
Right.
I need to change my mind.
And then I'll explain, you know,I, I thought about it and that
actually does sound really fun.
And I'm going to say yes now, orthe opposite could be true as well.

(01:02:22):
Like I say yes to something and thenit's like, why did I agree to that?
I should have said no.
Right.
Five kids coming over on this daythat I've already booked myself solid
just does not feel good anymore.
Like let's jump to this.
Yeah.
Um, You know, and for the most part,because I, I do change my mind,

(01:02:45):
and I explain why I've changed mymind, the kids are understanding.
They're a lot more understanding.
They might be disappointed,
but we've practiced.
Can people sit with that disappointment?
Oh, I've disappointed them, right?
That's where people go,Oh, I feel really bad.
Okay, I'll change my mind.
I'll make it happen, right?
And it's like, no, no, it'sokay to disappoint them.

(01:03:06):
It's okay.
They can't have a play date.
Their life was not likegoing to be ruined for it.
Give them five minutes, they'll be playingwith something and forget about it.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And that's the thing even, well,with work, you know, those red flags
come up, um, or I've said yes tosomething and then the red flags.

(01:03:29):
And then I'm like, ooh, okay,how do I renegotiate this?
Uh, and what, what do I need?
What do I need out of this?
Do I just need to say, nope,sorry, can't do anything at all?
Or do I need to say, I cando that, but on these terms?

(01:03:50):
And being able to, yeah.
So I think that's important is.
Is being able to change ourmind and being okay with, um,
how other people respond as well,because that's not up to us anyways.
It's that piece I talk to people a lotabout, like, it's okay if someone's
upset about it, that's their feeling tohave, and it's not your feeling to fix.

(01:04:14):
They can be disappointed that you can'thelp them with whatever it is, and
learning how to just let them be that way.
You don't have to fix it, you don't haveto keep talking about it, you can just
say, you know, I'm sorry I can't help you.
That's okay.
And then they can be the grown up and theycan deal with that on their own, move on.
And if they don't, then there's someonemaybe that has unhealthy boundaries.
And then we need to, that's adifferent conversation, right?

(01:04:36):
Right.
Totally.
I know.
Sometimes I have to be like, okay,just say what you need to say.
They are at all, they are adults.
They will get through it.
Whatever comes up for them is for them.
It's not for me.
It's.
It's okay.
Yeah, I have to say that about myhusband sometimes, like, it's okay if

(01:04:58):
he's upset about something because,you know, but, um, yeah, he's a shift
while he works away a lot as well.
And so it makes things really interesting,um, being, uh, sort of an entrepreneur.
And then having, having like thedynamics shift and change, um, Part time

(01:05:22):
single mom, sometimes that's help.
Yeah.
Right.
So, and those are all things that I'vehad to sort of understand and realize
as well is that, okay, well, he's gone.
This is kind of what mylife is like when he's home.
This is what my life is like.
And that's the other piece of it too,is I don't always know when he's home,

(01:05:44):
but I
do want to be able to say yes.
To spend time when he is home, sothat's another piece for me as well as
is looking at the schedule from thataspect and finding balance, but again,
it changes so much that sometimes I'mlike, is there even such thing as balance?

(01:06:06):
I don't think there is, but I think it'salways striving to have connection, right?
I may not have balance, but I can alwaystry to prioritize having connection
because that's what's going to make thismarriage and my life sustainable, right?
Yeah, exactly.
I love that.
Uh, priority, prioritizing connection.
Um, I think that's an connectionwith self too, I think is, is huge.

(01:06:31):
Yeah thank you so much forcoming on and sharing everything.
I think that there's lotsof different takeaways and
things that the listeners can
apply for themselves.
And I think that some of the ways thatyou explained it the red flag, I know
for me, that really stuck out for me.
And I know that's something thatI'm going to look at and, Every

(01:06:53):
time I get to that space, I'm goingto be like red flag, red flag.
So I really appreciate everything that youhave come to today for this conversation.
And thank you so much for showing upand just being part of this experience.
Yeah.
Thank you.
It was a neat, it wasa very cool experience.
I'm glad I took the chance and did it.

(01:07:31):
Thank you for joining this week'sepisode of Anchor Your Dreams.
I hope you enjoyed today'sconversation as much as I did.
A big thank you to our incredible guestsfor sharing their wisdom and insights.
If you resonated with today's episodeand want to explore more about
turning your dreams into reality,Be sure to subscribe to the podcast.
We have a lineup of amazing guestsand valuable content coming your way.

(01:07:55):
Don't forget to connectwith us on social media.
You can find us on Instagram and Facebook.
Share your thoughts, insights,and your own journey using the
hashtag anchor, your dreams.
Head over to our websiteat meganmcquillen.
com in the podcast section, where you'llfind the show notes, resources, and
information about upcoming episodes.

(01:08:16):
Before we wrap up, I want to express mygratitude to each and every one of you.
Your support means the worldto me, and I'm thrilled to
be on this journey with you.
Remember, anchored dreams becomegoals, anchored goals become results.
Until next time, dreambig and stay anchored.

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Overcoming Burnout | Colleen Franklin, RCC

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