December 10, 2024 • 60 mins
Jon talks about raced marathons, what it took him to complete 100 raced marathons, what it means and how to do it.
My favourite quote of the episode is "To me, failure is essential really. So I've had several did not finishes in races where I've actually so a couple of ultra marathons. One of the races the Delirious West I went back a second time. So this is a 200 mile race and it was probably within the first 10km I rolled my ankle to the point where I couldn't run on it, so I had to pull out of that race. But some of these failures, they make us a better runner as well, so there are setbacks along the way. But it's, sometimes you have to accept the race wasn't meant to be on that particular day for whatever reason. So failure's part of success, really. So you become a more resilient runner, and it helps give you that mindset of growth for future success."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Forrest.Chat,where we talk about individual
endeavor in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey, andtoday we're talking with Jon Pendse about
completing his 100th raced marathon.
Jon started racing marathons at about21 years of age, and he's a fast runner.
(00:30):
And he can run far.
He has some very good results andhas been very focused on achieving
100 marathon race finishes.
Welcome to Forrest.Chat, Jon.
Thank you, Paul.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, it's been quite a journey overthe last 20 years, so just a little bit
Brief background, I am 43 now, so ifanyone's seen me, I'm probably quite
(00:52):
short of stature I guess, so I was abit taller when I first started, but
over the years I've, uh, inched a bitcloser to the ground year after year.
You've worn off the soles of your shoes.
I've gone through quite a few pairs ofshoes now, so, being an accountant, savvy
I guess in terms of, uh, trying to savemoney, so my shoes now, I keep them until,
(01:14):
when I, when I get holes in my socks, it'stime for a new pair of shoes, so, used to
be about the thousand kilometre mark, geta new pair of running shoes, these days,
it only takes me probably ten weeks andI've done a thousand kilometres, so I need
to get a few more kilometres out of, outof the shoes before I throw them away.
You think, oh, running's easy, youknow, you can just get out there and
do it, but those, shoes, they don'tlast quite as long as you think.
(01:37):
No, that's right.
I guess it goes back to when Iwas age 15, starting getting into
the school cross country running.
That was quite, uh, my first, uh, stepinto the long distance side of running.
So the shorter distances I was nevergood at, but put me in the, uh,
1500 meters at school and I sort offinished in the top handful of people.
So, age 15, that's when the journeyofficially started, I guess.
(02:01):
But it was probably my firstmarathon about age 21 when I
first did my first marathon.
My first marathon and it took me that sixyear period, I guess, just to get into
the love for the long distance running.
So, I say to people runningis a lifelong career journey.
So don't worry about a couple of years.
It's that 20 year horizon.
(02:22):
So your, your goals shiftover that time duration.
So what you might start offwith, it really doesn't matter.
It's the year after year.
Decade after decade, I guess, to work outwhat has worked, what, how you can get
the best out of yourself over that time.
So, your goals do adjust over thetime and I guess we'll get into
some of those details as to what'sworked for me and the frameworks and
(02:45):
how they got established early on.
Jon, what is a raced marathon?
OK, so the marathon's astandard distance of 42.
195 kilometres.
In the 1 miles.
So that's the standard distance andyou get them all over the world.
The marathon, it's an organised event.
(03:05):
People turn up and runthe distance, the 42.
2 kilometres.
Each city, I guess, you think ofthe London's, New York's, Boston's.
So those are the sixmajors, is that correct?
Yeah, that's
right, the world majors.
So, I actually haven't reallydone majors, so I've been just
staying locally in Australia.
But I've done Sydney Marathon, and GoldCoast, and a lot of local ones in WA.
(03:30):
So predominantly, I preferjust to do the local ones.
So the Rottnest Marathon, andPerth, and Bunbury, Busselton,
those sort of marathons.
I mean, the race itself.
It's any long distance run.
It's a timed race.
When you finish a marathon, you do geta medal generally, so compared to say a
parkrun, if you do the marathon, you getthe finishes medal, you get a, a finished
(03:56):
time, you might get a finisher shirt.
So it's a bit more a lifeachievement, I guess.
So a bucket less itemonce you've done one.
For some people, they're happy with that.
So they may never do another one again.
So I guess if you've done onemarathon, or 100 marathons in my
case, I still say we're equivalent.
We're both marathon finishers.
We've pushed ourselves on the line.
(04:18):
What's come of it at the end ofit, we've both done the same race.
One maybe slightly quicker than the other.
There's always someonequicker, always someone slower.
So really, you're not racingother people in the race.
It's about Pushing yourself tolimits and then trying to improve
if that's what you want to do.
And it's a journey, so it's,each race is a milestone.
(04:39):
There's a whole raft of people, likethe world record's somewhere around
two hours, and a lot of events havecut offs that are probably around
the, what is it, six or seven hours?
Yeah, so depending on the race, I guess,but roughly six and a half to seven
hours would be a race cut off time.
And yeah, the world record, I thinkit's, It's about 2 hours and 30 seconds.
(04:59):
So they have broken the 2 hours inan unofficial race, it was a single
stand alone race set up specificallyto try and break 2 hours, so they had
paces coming in and out of the race.
To hold the pace, to break two hours.
So Eliud Kipchoge was theguy that broke two hours.
And the little bit of footage,like, literally he was the only
(05:22):
one that did the full distance?
Yeah, correct.
So the paces came in andout every five kilometres.
So they maintained an even paceand he just had to hang in the
group, so there's a bit of.
drafting that was going on in termsof um trying to get the most efficient
with cutting out the wind and the racelines for him every second counted so.
(05:42):
So that was a huge effort but not arecord because yes the record is for
people who've run it in a timed racewith other people there and none of
that, although there's probably stillpacing goes on, but you're not paced all
the way to the finish line like he was.
Yeah, so in
a race, generally youhave to start the race.
Everyone starts at the same timeand then if you drop out of the
(06:02):
race, you're out of the race.
So that's why the pace is generallyin your last 25 30 kilometers
before they drop out and then it'sthe winner, he's got another 10 15
kilometers left to run by himself, so.
This is the pointy end, the eliterunners of the best of the best.
These are full time professionalathletes, paid a lot of money
in terms of running scene.
(06:23):
So, for myself, I've alwaysbeen a very good amateur runner.
So, I guess some of my bestmarathon time is 2 hours 41 minutes.
So, it's a fair bit 2 hour time.
In Australia, you're talking the 2 isAustralia's best marathon runners, so
I'm still half an hour behind that, butyou look, you look at those top runners
(06:47):
and see what's working for them and theframework and you're trying to adapt
and use that in your own run journey.
What's working for the best runners,we can learn from that as well as your
everyday runners, and then you can excelyourself and push yourself to improve on
your own personal best times, and thenyou've got a range of different distances.
So for me, marathonrunning is my preferred.
(07:08):
My favourite distance to run, but Ialso run the 5km, 10km, half marathon,
and we'll probably even touch onthe ultra marathons, so we'll get to
that, but my shorter distances leadinto the longer distances in terms
of what is an equivalent race time.
So for me, a 2 hour 41 marathon,my 5k pb is about the 1640.
(07:32):
And it's on par with an equivalentrace time for that distance, so
you want to work on some of yourshorter distances before you move
and step up to the longer distances.
So you need to havethe framework in place.
In order to how can you improve yourmarathon time, you do need to get
quicker at the shorter distances.
Just coming back to the eventstructure, so normally there's a club
(07:55):
or an organiser who's put together acourse and a whole heap of volunteers
usually to be along the course, andwhat do you get to along the course?
Well you've got eight stations alongthe way, there's certain rules that they
have to follow, so a race director, thecourse is generally Accurately measured.
(08:16):
Now you can have a acourse and a B course.
So a would be settingworld record standards.
So there's a lot that goes into thatin terms of the, proper certification,
there's rules around it and haveto use a, I think it's called a
Jones counter that's done on acalibrated bike, those sort of things.
But for local runs where you mighthave say 100, 200 runners in it.
(08:37):
It will cost too much to go throughan A qualification to get it
properly world records ratified.
So the B courses would be usinglike a hand measuring wheel.
So the race directors will gothrough those steps to get their
race accurately measured for the 42.
2 kilometres.
And they also have to have volunteersso that it's well signposted,
(09:02):
marshals at turnaround points.
You need to put the course map together.
There's a bit of things that go into it.
You have an entry process.
You pay an entry fee.
Then putting on the race itself.
You might have aid stations every 5kilometers generally for having water,
electrolytes, gels, those sort of things.
So, everything's set up forthe runner to be able to just
(09:25):
turn up and race it on the day.
Races are comparable, so if you'vedone a marathon, it's the same distance
as to a marathon held somewhere else.
So they're trying to have thatconsistency, the framework
in place to run the marathon.
Standardised process to get it approved.
There's a whole lot of things thathave gone into place and they're
(09:46):
pretty consistent from event to event.
Differences are in the elevationthat you might approach on the course
and the surface and I imagine the Atype courses are probably smoother
and things like that, I'd imagine.
Yeah, probably a little bit quickerand they got, might have road
closures in place and, um, tryingto have a faster course to attract
(10:06):
some of the top runners from variousstates or international runners.
You've got things likeprize money as well.
So some of the bigger races might have,say, 10, 000, 20, 000 prize money, world
record bonuses, those sort of things.
So It's quite a drawcard then interms of having a world major put on.
So Sydney's recently been giventhe tick as a, I think it might be
(10:28):
number seven on the world majors.
So I think in terms of worldmajors you've got London, New York,
Boston, Berlin, Chicago, Tokyoand I think Sydney as well now.
So you get maybe 40, 000people running in those races.
So that's really the best of the bestmarathon runners will go to those
events to try and win the prize money.
(10:50):
But the local ones, I've donesome of the bigger races.
So my biggest race isprobably Sydney Marathon.
Probably had close to eight or ninethousand people the year I ran it.
And then on the other side of thespectrum, I've run in races that might
have had probably 20 to 25 people.
I think Geraldton thesmaller races I've done.
(11:11):
So it's quite a difference, but it'sstill the standardised approach.
And then if you go for differenttimes, it's good to have people
that you can run with as well.
So that's what I've done.
Races where I run the entire way myself.
Other races I've been in differentpace groups, say breaking three hours.
So for amateur runners, threehours is a good benchmark time to
try and break, but you also getthe four hours, five hour runners.
(11:34):
They're also going for their milestoneto try and break those time barriers.
So in marathon running, differentmilestone to break different times.
It's a real, carrot, Iguess, that helped me.
inspire people to push themselvesand break those time barriers.
So, there's somethingspecial to take away.
It doesn't matter if you'retrying to break two and a half
(11:54):
hours, three, four, five hours.
For that person running it on thatday, trying to break their best
time, it's on par with somebodywho's maybe breaking a world record.
Maybe not the prize associated withit, but it's that personal achievement
and that personal milestone.
And what it represents,having that finished medal.
I think everyone who'sdone a marathon will do it.
(12:16):
Appreciate and know trulywhat it takes and has taken
for them along their journey.
And it's a beautiful thingto see people achieving that.
So, Jon, what does it take you torun a hundred race to marathons?
Yeah, so, I've always been a fan of,for me, there's a term I use saying,
(12:37):
I can, I am, and then I like tothink of putting in words into that.
So, for example, I can, I am strong.
I am motivated, I am happy,I am healthy, I am able, I am
inspired, and I am focused.
So each of those thingsis just empowering words.
(12:59):
So when I'm racing, I thinkof these things sometimes.
And sometimes it's justthat single word in a race.
So sometimes I think,what's my word in this race?
And it might be, Sayfor example, inspired.
So what's recent, like in the buildup to that marathon, where am I at?
What's my current inspiration in termsof like, you want to be empowered
(13:19):
for different races as to just tohave at the back of your mind, I like
keep it, keep it short and simple.
So the one word motivation helps justto have that at the back of your mind.
And then that's what you can fallback on in that particular race.
So maybe write it on the backof your hand or somewhere that
you can just visually see it.
These are just very small.
(13:39):
Tips that I've used that justhelp empower you to push yourself
and the reason for your running.
So we've all got different reasonsas to why we're out there running.
And to do week after week, monthafter month, year after year, there's
something special for you to keep going.
You don't want to be burntout and stop running early on.
(14:00):
You want to gradually build over time.
We're all creatures of habitswhere, as humans, there's certain
things that That make us who weare, and you need to tap into that.
So I always think when youfinish a run, are you ever
disappointed in a training run?
So generally it's hardest just to getout the door and start a run, but if
(14:22):
you get past that, just that hurdle,put your race shoes on, or not, sorry,
not race shoes, your training shoes, andyou're having your clothes ready to go.
I like to run first thing in themorning, so, There's no excuses that way.
Get it done first thing in the morning.
Okay, it's always hard to get out ofbed, but But once you've you've slowly
(14:42):
get past those small hurdles as youbuild on it It's no longer a hurdle.
So you want to have as leastexcuses as possible So that
you can just go out and run.
So the training is the hard part.
Racing is easy.
It's the training.
So it's for marathons, I'm generallytraining all year round for marathon
(15:05):
running, but I will peak up and downduring the year as to, in terms of
getting my peak performance and youhave a roller coaster of training.
So you adapt during the year.
So you start off the year and yougradually month after month, slowly
try and peak towards your goal races.
(15:26):
So, it's that gradual approach andyou use the human biology framework
as to how, how can we tap into that.
So, the routine of being able to justbuild up your routine, get past that
six weeks, it becomes a routine, youstick on your routine, and that's it.
It's become habit.
(15:47):
So it's learning on these littlethings and that's what I've done in
my whole 20 years of marathon running.
It's focusing on the routine,the discipline, the focus and
the reason why I'm running.
So the healthy, Lifestyle, being inspired.
So the 100 marathons has always beena long term vision, and it's always
(16:10):
been something that I've thoughtI would love to hit 100 marathons.
How am I going to get there?
And I knew it was going to be probablya 20 year journey to get there, and
I didn't think it Try and do the100 marathons as quick as possible.
It was about having a sustainableapproach doing four or five marathons
a year But over a long term durationSo you're trying to minimize injury
(16:33):
and downtime and just keep the traininggoing and then you put your races in
So it's been that long term approach.
So with that ebbing and flowing effectHave there been times when you've?
stopped to the point where you go,wow, this is really hard to get back.
You have to have thatsolid training behind you.
So for me, when I'm training, it'sabout hitting the flow state, I
(16:57):
guess, in terms of the fresh air,the finding the zen, the stress free.
These are reasons why we love running.
So yeah.
If you can find that sweet spot interms of that's why we're running, we're
not going out there and it's a chore.
We're doing it because we just lovethe running, so the speed that you're
running at doesn't really matter.
So if you're training at 5, 6, 7 minutekilometer pace, you're trying to find
(17:21):
that free state feeling where Minutescan just feel like hours and hours.
Time is no longer relevant.
Exactly.
So when, when you find thatstate and it's the enjoyment,
that's what you're looking for.
So everything else is just relativeto that fixed state, I guess.
So you find that point.
And you want to just build on itweek after week, month after month.
(17:44):
So it's something thatgrows with you over time.
I try not to put pressure on myselfto perform because it's a long
term approach and I've adapted andimproved my race times over many
years working what works for me.
There's different training regimes,how many kilometers a week you can do.
How many interval sessions, yourlong runs, these are all things that
(18:08):
come with time and your experience.
So the flow state is actually a wellknown thing, it applies to work.
You're far more productive whenyou're in the flow state at work, and
then you're very easily pulled outof your flow state, particularly at
work by distractions and phone callsringing, all those sorts of things.
(18:30):
Knowing how to get yourselfinto a flow state is something
that is actually really special.
So do you by chance have a processthat you go through that helps
you get into that flow state?
Yep.
So I've never used music whenI've been running because for
me, it doesn't work for me.
So first of all, I can't, I can'trun with music and the fresh air.
(18:53):
And just getting the heartrate up, the endorphin rush.
For me, once I get through the firstcouple of kilometers just warming up,
the run's easy then, because it might be,um, say I'm going out for an hour's run.
I can do that day in, day out.
I've worked in The structuredframework for training works for
(19:13):
me, so you have recovery runs, someinterval sessions, a medium distance
run, and a long distance run.
So, that forms the framework froma week to week process, in terms
of just doing those stock standardruns, probably about three weeks.
14, 15 years ago, Iintroduced double days.
So one run wasn't enough,I wanted to do two.
(19:36):
But the second run would generallybe, say, half an hour to 40 minutes.
And it was more stimulating the enduranceand time on feet for marathon running.
So if you can run in a tired state,your body just becomes accustomed to it.
And you want to build, for me it wasabout building up my base kilometres,
roughly say 100 kilometres a week.
(19:56):
But in the early days, I was probablyrunning 30 to 40 kilometers a
week and took me several years tobuild it up to the 100 kilometers.
And then I threw in the doubledays and I'd get up to, say, the
120 to 140 kilometer range andprobably in the last five years,
my I'm running 140 to 160km a week.
But that's probably been in the lastfour or five years as I've slowly
(20:19):
tailored my, what's worked for me, andbuilt up your strength and endurance.
So there is that, the structurebehind it to help you get,
like, push yourself along.
So you, you can't just, you know, Bestale in your training approach, I guess.
You do need to change things up sometime,or Go off road, maybe some trails, go
different route that you might not be usedto, or parkruns is a perfect example where
(20:43):
you can go and Run at different parkruns,week in, week out, just Drive somewhere
else, Try it, just mix it up a little bit.
So the parkruns for me, I'm, I'mbig into the parkruns because it's
just every Saturday, 5km, turn up.
If you want to race it, you can race it.
If you want to use it as a training run,where say you might progressively run
each kilometre quicker, you can adaptwhat works, like do a test race, I guess.
(21:08):
So start slow, finish fast, startfast, finish slow, these sort
of things, or 1km on, 1km off.
The parkrun's just a goodway of just working out.
Push yourself to your limits if youwant a time trial and you want to
have feedback along the way as towhere you're at in your training.
So I like to not train for one race.
(21:30):
Some people might have a six monthtraining block and they rarely race.
So they don't get the feedback in termsof where they're at in their training.
They're trusting their 6 month, or maybeit's a longer, 6 to 8 month marathon
training plan with not many races in it.
I'm the opposite.
I like to race almost every 1 or 2 weeks.
The shorter distances, throwin a half marathon, a 10km.
(21:54):
But it's the stepping stonesalong the way to the marathon.
So, I like to race many times a yearrather than just one or two races a year,
so I like to have the feedback, and that'swhy I'm running four or five marathons
a year, just to give me that feedback.
And I'm using it as steppingstone towards the next marathon.
Start of the year I might be inthat three hour range for a marathon
(22:17):
running, just because I've had abit of downtime over Christmas.
Come March, April I might becloser to 2 hour 50 marathon.
June, July I'm probably closer to 2hour 45 and in the last couple years
I've been closer to 2 hour 40 marathon.
It takes you that 3 4 months ofhaving that fine tuning what works
for you, dropping the kilograms down.
(22:39):
I mean everyone's each totheir own what works for them.
Doesn't work for everyone, and this hastaken me quite some time to work out
my best approach, what works for me.
From the distraction side of things,running is my outlet to then not be
distracted at work, I guess, so I liketo go for lunchtime runs at work, so
(22:59):
just to get escape from day to day I'm afinance manager, so accountant by trade
I guess, in terms of um, in front ofthe computer all day, but um, having a
lunch break just to break up the day, goout, fresh air, get the blood flowing,
the endorphins, go back to your desk andjust a little bit more focus then, so.
(23:20):
For me personally, I think my, myday job helps me be a better runner.
So I have tried being a full time runner.
It doesn't work for me.
So I need to have a structuredhaving a desk job works well, cause
you're, you're off your legs and,uh, sitting down and then go out
for, so I might do a run before work.
At lunchtime, generallyit doesn't work for me.
(23:40):
Evening run, just by the end of theday I'm ready to put my feet up,
but that's why I like doing my runfirst thing in the morning when you
wake up, for me it works better, so.
The distractions, you want tostructure your day to get what's your
priority, get your things in donefirst thing in the day, for example.
Or a lunchtime run, no excusesthen, you have a shower at the end
(24:00):
of it and go back to work, but.
Workout, everyone's got a differentroutine that works for them, so it's,
time is the finite source I guess,so how much time will you, are you
willing to dedicate to what you'retrying to do at that particular time,
and it's a journey I guess, so overtime In the early days I might be
(24:21):
training four or five hours a week.
These days I'm probablydoing 12 to 15 hours a week.
So you need to work at how you're goingto fit that time in to become a priority.
So it might mean you get up an extrahalf an hour earlier in the morning.
But you're ticking it off, you'regetting it done every day, or say
three, four days a week, whatever itis where you're at in your journey.
(24:43):
And it might not be running, it couldbe cycling, swimming, all these other
things that people enjoy promotinga healthier lifestyle, I guess.
So if you find what your passionis, And you stick to it, you're
going to become better and a moreall round better person for you.
That's really a good point, becauseyou go, OK, you're finding what
(25:06):
you want to do, you're finding whatsuits you, and then it's actually
benefiting every area of your life.
Yeah, exactly.
So for me, My kids are 14 and 15.
I've always tried being the, I mean,I'm sure everyone else does as well,
but your best role model, knowing thatyou're highly influencing the outcome
of your developing young, young kids.
(25:28):
So trying to promote what is a healthylifestyle, how do you set goals?
And then along the way, the ups and thedowns, but you still got the vision to
achieve what you're setting out to do.
So I think it's, It's extremely important,and even in the run community, a lot
of people know my name in the WA runcommunity, doesn't mean I'm the best
(25:49):
runner, but I consistently get out there.
I have good days and bad days.
Some races are worse than others fordifferent reasons, but the passion,
the love, I just love getting outthere and putting myself on the line.
So some people have seen mein races, I might blow up in
a race, hit the wall, I guess.
So the marathon's something thattests you and put you, puts you to
(26:10):
your limit, but it's both the peoplethat see you out there do it for you.
Doing it week after week.
They know that you, you are puttingyourself on the line and there's no
guarantee of success, but the factthat you're gonna come back and do it
again the next week and the week after
, we've heard now a lot about what it takes Jon to run a hundred raced marathons.
(26:33):
We'll have a break now, andafter the break we'll come
back and look at what it means.
Now that we've had a look at what ittakes, let's have a look at what it means.
Jon, what does it mean to you, your familyor the community that you've been able
(26:54):
to complete a hundred race to marathons?
Yeah, so for me, I takea lot of inspiration.
It's a reverse inspiration, I guess.
So I see the community runners, Theback of the pack runners, the slower
runners, they're as passionate, if notmore passionate, than I am about running.
And I take inspiration from thatbecause the longer you're out there
(27:15):
in these races, the harder it is.
So if the quicker runners have trainedfor it and they've put themselves
on the line, they're finishingsometimes half an hour, an hour
ahead of some of the middle runners.
And then the back of the pack runnersare coming in two hours later.
So For me, I get inspiration from thatbecause I know what they've had to go
through to get to that finish line.
(27:37):
They've pushed themselves totheir breaking points, I guess.
In the community, you get all aroundabilities, I guess, in terms of we're
all equals and we're equivalents in termsof when it comes to putting ourself,
we all turning up for the same race.
So it doesn't matter if you'rewinning the race or coming last.
There's a reason that we're out theredoing what we, what we love doing.
(27:59):
So for me, it means being ableto give back to community, having
your name out there as well.
So it's, , not putting pressure onyourself, but your name is someone others
look up to and use you as a gauge as wellin terms of, it's good to see some of the,
the top end runners still have bad races.
So when you race so much, there aresome races where For whatever reason,
(28:22):
you might fall back in the race, yourheart rate's, you've gone out too quick,
or, but it's being able to come thatadversity, and having your experience
to know what to do, and persevere, andpush through, and still finish the race.
So I like to, my bad races are almostas important to me as my good races.
(28:43):
Better races.
So a personal best is a, it'sa reason it's, it's a personal
milestone for yourself.
But the slower runs are just as importantfor some of those community runners
and for family and friends to see thatyou're just a everyday runner as well.
So I think it's very important to,to show that not to put ourselves
(29:03):
on pedestals and someone I liketo be on par with everyone else.
And we, we all have that passion as well,so it's good to have somewhere as a middle
ground to come together and have a chat.
And there's a lot of common denominators,I guess, across the running is just
our passion in terms of the sportthat we're in, but you can apply the
(29:25):
same principles to other sports andother community events and hobbies.
And that's why we cometogether as a community.
We've got the love forfinishing the races.
And having the respect, seeing people comeback and they're still there years later.
So it's, you're also having,you're building relationships
with people along that time.
(29:45):
So you're getting the common activities,whatever that activity is, you're out
there doing it together and then you'resharing in the Rewards and benefits
of taking part in those activities.
Yeah, exactly.
So to me failure is essential reallyso I've had several did not finishes in
races where I've actually so a coupleof ultra marathons One of the races the
(30:08):
Delirious West, I went back a second time.
So this is a 200 mile race and it wasprobably within the first 10km I rolled
my ankle to the point where I couldn't runon it, so I had to pull out of that race.
But some of these failures, theymake us a better runner as well, so
there are setbacks along the way.
But it's, sometimes you have to acceptthe race wasn't meant to be on that
(30:30):
particular day for whatever reason.
So failure's part of success, really.
So you become a more resilientrunner, and it helps give you that
mindset of growth for future success.
It's the same in work and other passionsthat you have, so that the failure and
it's that circle framework, I guess,in terms of going through the process.
(30:53):
Sometimes there is the failure, butwhen you go back and start again,
it means you've, you're adding toyour experience to make you a better
person, better runner and the love forlife, I guess, at the end of the day.
Running teach you a lot about life.
Oh, without a doubt.
I mean, it's, for me, runningkeeps me grounded, I guess.
(31:14):
So that's the constant, I guess.
It's always there.
Running is something that I can do day in,day out, and it makes me a better person.
I just enjoy it.
So it's every time in, in running,sometimes you, you step back, you reflect,
and you adapt, ready to move forwardsin terms of setting your next challenge.
(31:35):
As part of my 100 marathons,As a side interest, I have
done a few ultra marathons.
So an ultra marathon isanything more than the 42.
2 kilometers.
So an ultra marathon, 50kilometers, 100 kilometers.
So the longest race I've donewas, like I mentioned, the
Delirious West 200 mile race.
So approximately 320 kilometers.
(31:58):
So I've had, I've used ultramarathonsas, just to give me a more broader
experience because I found themindset gives you an extra tool in
your, your marathon toolbox I guess.
So I've used ultramarathon running tomake me a stronger marathon runner.
So your mind shift changes afteryou've done a 100 kilometre race
(32:21):
or a 200 mile race really, , resetsboundaries and makes you take, um,
a step back and appreciate what themarathon distance truly means for you.
Interesting thing to thinkabout that expansion of your
boundaries, your capabilities.
That's quite a big thing thatis a real positive in your life.
(32:41):
Mastering the marathon is onething, but to become a more rounded
runner, I think you do have to pushyourself mentally so that you're
just a stronger all around runner.
So, some of my ultramarathons, thetraining for those ultramarathons,
I did some all night running, soas part of my 200 mile race, I live
(33:05):
in Kingsley and I chose to run toMandurah, which is 110 kilometers away.
So I start about twoo'clock in the morning.
And I planned to get to Rockinghamfor 8 o'clock for the parkrun.
So it was a 65km warm up to getto Rockingham for the parkrun.
So I turned up probably about20 30 minutes beforehand.
(33:26):
So a 65km warm up, and Ifelt good by that stage.
I went out and I think I did a sub 20minute parkrun, which I was happy with.
But I still had another 30kmafter that to get to Mandurah,
and then I got the train home.
But, I mean Something like that, youset yourself up, just, you think of
an extreme situation, you just haveto go in the deep end, put yourself
(33:48):
in it, there's no, you're not goingto give up, however long it takes.
I set out to, I mean, these weredeliberate training, goals as to
getting me ready for a 200 mile race.
So as part of that, I had tofind my breaking point in terms
of an ultra marathon distance.
So I'd done, before the 200 milerace, I had done a five time 100
kilometer race in the Australind race.
(34:10):
Australia Day, race.
So I was a well experienced ultramarathonrunner, but 200 miles was the next
level, I guess, in terms of a distance.
So that's why one of the challenges inthe 200 mile race was setting myself
some new challenges that's goingto push me beyond my comfort zone.
So I did find my breaking pointthat particular day, but I did
(34:32):
push on and get to Mandurah.
Luckily, I still had my, um, smart cardtrain card, so I could get the train home.
So that would have been Bit of astruggle if I got there and didn't
have my train card and I didn't take,uh, didn't have any money as well.
So I probably should have thought thatone through a little bit better, but I did
have my train card so I could get home.
That's it.
I, when I was a youngster, I hadto ask a taxi driver for five
(34:56):
cents to complete my fee to get onthe train to get back to school.
So similar sort of thing.
So it's really interesting having thoseexperiences where literally you just
go out and do it and You get to theend and you go, okay, now what do I do?
Yeah, I think pushing yourselfbeyond what your normal limits are.
(35:17):
It's part of having that longerterm vision, what you are
setting yourself up to achieve.
So for me, I want the marathonis important to me, but the ultra
marathons for a few years, I wasfocused on the ultra marathon running.
Just to give me that all round abilityand the passion for just running hour
after hour, it takes a lot out of you.
(35:39):
But you adjust your pace, you'relooking at hydration, nutrition,
your run gear, so your shoes.
camelbacks, those sort of things,like how are you actually going to
get to the 200 mile distance, I guess.
So you need to adapt and work outwhat your new goal is that you're
(36:00):
working towards, and then adjust, useyour experience, and move forwards,
and just have a methodical approach.
So it's, it's good having that,the SMART principle, I guess, in
terms of Specific, measurable,achievable, realistic in a time frame.
So these are things that I use tostructure a training program as to what
(36:23):
the outcome that I'm aiming towards.
Because you do want successat the end of the day as well.
So personal success, that's part of themotivation that pushes us and incentivizes
us to get to the end and see it through.
Yes, and you don't get there unlessyou've set the goal in the first place.
And the smart goals that you mentioned,that's a very important concept to
(36:46):
understand in order to have goalsthat you can actually achieve.
Yeah, so you want to celebrate the smallwins along the way, so for me it's been
a gradual, what are the small wins that Ican take and then how can I take the small
wins and move forwards and build it up.
So, I mean, generally for long distancerunners, they start off with the 5
(37:08):
and 10 kilometers and half marathon.
It's a gradual approach.
So you chip away at it week afterweek, month after month, but you're
slowly just moving towards a longerterm vision and a longer term goal.
So don't be in a rush to get towhat your long term vision is.
There's, there's no real rush andurgency to get there straight away
(37:31):
because you want to leave some things.
You, you will become a betterrunner year after year.
So if your goal was to run amarathon in after six months or
a year, that's all well and good.
And that's going to incentivizeyou for that particular goal.
Don't write off the fact that you'dbe a better marathon runner in
five years time or ten years time.
(37:53):
It's part of that adaption processand your body takes time to make
it the best version of itselfto achieve your best outcome.
So some of us just doing morekilometres each week is going
to make you a better runner.
Making your long run go from 15kilometres to 25 to 30 kilometres as a
(38:15):
long distance, your long run for thatweek, you'll become a better runner if
you just focus on that and build on it.
So you want to start small.
And work up to the biggerwins along the way.
So, for me, year after year, I'vehad the small wins along the way.
And then I celebrate the marathonmilestones along the way as well.
(38:35):
So, for me, it was the 10marathons, and then the 25, 50.
So, they've been celebrated at the time.
They were important,and they were special.
That helped me become a moresuccessful runner for myself.
They're very important lessons to learnto maintain your own peace of mind and
sense of capability and you feel somuch better when you're able to achieve
(38:59):
goals and if you have no goals along theway and you never feel like you achieve
anything you don't get that satisfaction.
Yeah, the mentalpreparation is part of it.
So you do need to make yourselfa mentally strong person.
So an all round ability.
So it's, it's essential for thesmall wins along the way and not
to go too far in the deep end.
(39:20):
So for me, I didn't just jump inand do my overnight run to Mandurah.
That was probably 15 years in thebuildup before I was ready to do that.
For me, personally, the first 10 yearswas just getting into the routine
and the structure and building on it.
Working out what is working wellfor me, what isn't working well, the
training structure, week to week,what works for me and what doesn't.
(39:44):
It was probably five years ago I movedaway from a high carb diet to a low
carb diet, and for me that worked well.
So, for me personally, it was aboutmoving into the fat burning adaption.
So, just having your body, because Iwas doing endurance running, so for me,
I didn't really need the fast twitchand the carbs and the sugars, so for
(40:05):
me I wanted the slower try and convertyour body over to a longer endurance
fat burning process, so it worked forme and so it doesn't work for everyone.
For me, it's personally worked well forme and I've achieved my best times in
the last five years, but I've had theprevious ten years was just getting
the routine and the pattern and justkeep turning up week after week.
(40:30):
You can fine tune what works for youbest after you've had the experience and
there's no right or wrong answer, but it'sbeing, um, back yourself and try, don't
be afraid to try new things, mix up yourtraining a little bit and meet new people.
Set new goals, different race distances.
I mean these days you can have trail racesand multi adventure sport races, cycling.
(40:54):
I mean there's, there's Ironmans,there's a whole range of things.
So for me I'm lucky thatrunning's an all year round.
In WA we have pretty much marathons 10months of the year is marathon running.
It used to be six months of the year wouldbe marathon season, and you'd have a six
month off season, so you need to findother, something to keep you, um, have
(41:15):
new goals, I guess, in the off season,so it's hard to stay motivated, so we're
lucky in WA, perfect weather, and get outto new scenery, or different parkruns,
with, there's probably 35, 40 parkruns inWA that you can go out, easily go to, and
It just mixes it up a little bit, I guess.
So, try not to get stale in your approach,and you can apply this, it doesn't matter
(41:37):
what your hobby and your passion is.
Keep it passionate for a reason.
So, you want to keep the love,because that's the pure side of it.
For me, it's, you can see it,everyone who knows me can see that.
That's where the motivation is.
Exactly, yeah, yep, yep, 100%.
We've had a look now at what it means.
We'll have a break, and after thebreak, we'll look at how you do it.
(42:05):
We've got a good understandingnow of what it means, now
we'll look at how do you do it.
Jon, the big question is, how doyou do a hundred raced marathons?
Or do you want to go a little bitsmaller and how do we do a marathon?
Take it back to the basics I guess,and starts with a small framework, and
(42:26):
you build on your framework and youadd to the framework as time goes on.
The general framework for runninganyway, is a mid week medium
run, a long run on the weekends.
So once a week you do a long run, amedium sized run, maybe one interval
session or like a threshold typerun where you're pushing yourself.
(42:47):
And then the other days wouldbe recovery, light runs.
So that's just the framework interms of what a long distance
structured training program is.
So you want to set yourself up.
To follow a training plan is a good start.
Start with a vision or a goal interms of what race you're actually
aiming to run and then how much timehave you got before that race is on
(43:10):
and just scale it back a little bit.
So I do like having, say, a 12 weektraining plan towards, like a goal
marathon, but the 12 week plan is goodfor that race and you can throw in
other races in that 12 week period.
And so those smaller races becomestepping stones for the marathon, maybe
(43:31):
at the end of that 12 week period.
Before you go on there, you mentioned acouple of different types of runs that
my listeners might not be aware of.
So what's a threshold run?
Okay, so a threshold run wouldbe, I guess when you think about
training, it's the heart rate zone.
So generally, you might have zones 1to 5, where Your heart rate, if you
(43:52):
move into, say, the Zone 5 would bewhere you get lactic acid build up.
It's a sprint, basically,for long distance running.
So it's a high heart rate at that end?
High heart rate.
Something that you can't maintain.
So you don't want to be in Zone 5, prettymuch never, for long distance running.
If you get in Zone 5, that's probablythe 100 metre and 200 metre races
for short distance sprinters.
(44:13):
So that, they'll, they'll work inthat Zone 5 as they're training.
For long distance runners, it's aboutmost of the work is done in zone three.
So it's a say a conversationalpace, something you can maintain
for say half an hour to an hour.
So a threshold run wouldgenerally be in that zone four
where you're pushing yourself.
(44:34):
It's not conversational pace, and it'ssomething you might be able to maintain
for say, as a rough timeframe, say20 to 30 minutes as a total effort.
So you might do some interval running.
where you might do, say, one kilometrefaster pace at that non conversational
threshold, the heart rate zone.
(44:55):
Might have a one kilometre off, soone kilometre on, one kilometre off.
When you're pushing that one kilometre,you're pushing yourself into that
zone four, and then in the off, youmight drop back to that zone two,
where it's just a light recovery,back onto that one kilometre.
You're pushing yourself backinto that zone four again.
So the threshold is just trying to getyour race pace, pushing yourself into the
(45:20):
uncomfortable zone, but it's manageable.
So some of these, people are pushingthemselves in different training programs.
The threshold is an important partof it because you want to push
yourself in training so that whenyou come to race day, you've been
uncomfortable before in your training.
You've, you've tested yourself.
On race day, you don't really get, Therecovery time, so it's uh, the five
(45:42):
kilometres is a good threshold timetrial sort of what you can maintain.
So the threshold is just pushing yourself,going for a higher heart rate and
seeing how long you can maintain it for.
There's a whole myriad of differentintervals and say there's also, I like
to do a progressive run where each,in training, each kilometre might be
slightly quicker than the last kilometre.
(46:04):
The tip is to start your firstkilometre as slow as possible.
So that each kilometre you're just goinga little bit quicker, but by the end of
it, say, a 5 or 6 kilometre threshold.
It's a progressive threshold.
By the last kilometre, yourlast kilometre's your quickest.
So I mean, people can change thingsup as to how they want to build that
(46:25):
threshold run into their structured week.
So threshold's an important one.
The middle, medium run midweek, for methat might be a 15 to 20 kilometre run.
But it's generally in that zone 3, soit's, you're not pushing yourself, you're
just trying to maintain time on feet.
It's a comfortable run.
For marathon running, you just wanttime on feet is, is very important.
(46:49):
In that middle distance run, youmight, a couple of times, you might
throw in one or two kilometer effortsjust to go a little bit quicker
in that, that middle distance run.
And then your long distancerun would be that zone 2 or 3.
where for me it might be a 25to 35 kilometre, two to two
and a half hour sort of run.
So, so they're the key ones whereyou have a specific outcome of those
(47:14):
training runs and your recoverydays are also important as well.
So some people might throw in a gymsession, cycling, swimming, like just
some general cardio, which is goodbecause we're all at different different
levels of our ability in terms ofhow many kilometres is manageable.
For me, the 100km a week, I can dothat week in week out, it's not a
(47:36):
problem, but for others it might bethat 50 60km a week, but you can be,
if you can improve your cardio, it'sgoing to give you a better run ability
as well, so it doesn't mean you justneed to go and do a 100km a week, it's
working out what the balance is and whatworks for you, and your long distance
run might only be 10 15km, and that'sabsolutely fine, For where you're at.
(47:59):
Medium run might be a 5 to 10kilometre distance, which is also fine.
And your recovery runsmight be 2 to 3 kilometres.
So, it's all relative for wherewe're at in our journey and what our
ability is, and being realistic aboutwhat we're trying to get out of it.
So, stepping right back to the couch,there's even a couch to 5K program.
(48:22):
So, in the beginning, those distances,are, walking, and then occasionally
they bring in short distances ofrunning into those programs and
they build you up bit by bit and theaim for that is to get you to 5km.
And then, once you're doing 5km, well,most people can walk 5km anyway, but
when you build up that little bit,even if you get to that 5km once a
(48:44):
week and go to parkrun for example,then even from there you can step up.
parkrun is a great place to be.
Meet people who you can then do littlebits extra with during the week.
Rather than doing one run a week,you can do one run mid week, and
you can just build up, and you nevergo past where you feel comfortable.
(49:04):
Exactly, it's havingthat routine in place.
So it's very important toset up that framework and the
structure of what works for you.
So how much time have you got toinvest into that weekly structure?
So a good way at work, say for example,I like to go out for lunchtime runs.
Half an hour is easy, it's done inthe middle of the day, there's no
competing time constraints other thanlike meetings, because I'm a little bit
(49:28):
flexible on lunchtime runs and maybe tryand do that three or four days a week.
They're the ones that are just noexcuses, go out and get them done.
Also I like to run first thing in themorning as well, so set your alarm say
half an hour earlier, just to give youa little bit of extra time out there.
So these are all little toolsand tips that you can just build
on, but the important part ishaving the routine in place.
(49:49):
And once you have the routinein place, it's not a chore.
And you do it day afterday, week after week.
And it doesn't mean you'rerunning 7 days a week.
That's something for me that'staken probably 10 years, I
guess, to 7 day a week runner.
But in the early days, itwas probably 3 days a week.
But I'd be, the routine was important.
So I did those 3 runs every week,without fail, because that was
(50:14):
important to me, and that's whatI wanted to invest my time in.
And it grew from that, so the threeweekly runs would move into the
four and the five and the weekendlong run, those sort of things.
So you can build on that as time goes.
So the couch to fivekilometres is perfect.
Getting to a new routine, youhave to start somewhere, so
it's that personal challenge.
Everyone wants to be the best versionof themselves, but time and when
(50:37):
that fits into their life and thework life balance and lifestyle
and the healthy, healthy, healthy.
Promoting a healthier lifestyle.
It's all how does it fitin at that point in time?
And once you have the foundation, that'swhen you can build on it and add more
time to it and you can work out whatgoals you you want to move towards.
So the parkrun's been perfect in termsof community runners just getting
(51:01):
out and doing the five kilometers.
Getting their milestonesof 50 a hundred and plus.
I think I'm up to about 235parkruns now, so that's parkrun's
just been a foundation run that.
it's my Saturday threshold timetrial sort of run generally, and
Sunday would be my long, long run.
Occasionally I'll miss the parkrun onthe Saturday if I'm racing on a Sunday,
(51:22):
but I have been known to do a parkrun atmoderate pace on the Saturday and then
back up on the Sunday and do another race.
So each to their own as to whatworks for them and some, some races
are more goal races than others.
Others are just the steppingstone races along the way.
So if it's a goal race, like Igenerally have an A race and a
B race for the year where theyare, they're the important ones.
(51:45):
So I wouldn't put myself onthe line on the Saturday.
The goal race is the onethat's your focus for.
The ones along the way is just theones that you've been able to tick
off the milestones along the way.
So the 100 Marathons has been justThe four or five marathons a year has
just been, I've been able to chip awayat it, and still performing for my
(52:06):
one or two key races for that year.
I did ten marathons thisyear to hit the 100.
At the start of the year I generallylike to work up and peak for the
races by mid year when it's winterconditions, perfect running.
So for me it's generally a three, fourmonth conditioning, peaking phase.
So I start the year generally a littlebit slower, but by middle of the year
(52:27):
I'm probably 15 20 minutes quicker, butit's taken me that four or five months
to get that 15 20 minutes quicker.
So I'm still trying to push that2 hour 40 marathon mark for me.
It's been a personal milestonein terms of my marathon goals,
so I'm still working towards it.
So I'm not writing it offand discounting it just yet.
(52:48):
It's still, watch this space.
I did do a 2.
45 was my best marathon time this year.
Every marathon I'm proud of anyway,but it's a personal milestone as well
as to, it keeps pushing me along totry and push myself to my limits.
Let's just talk a little bit about themechanics of getting to enter an event.
(53:09):
How do you find an event and enter it?
I guess I'm a seasoned marathon runnernow, so I know all my local marathons.
In WA there's probably close to10 or 11 marathons that we have.
There's running calendars.
I mean, these days, Googlesearches and almost every major
city has its own marathon, soit's what time of the year it is.
(53:29):
And if you want to travel, so ifI've had family holidays, it's
like, which marathon can I do?
What time of the year is it?
As to, alright, we're going to go, adestination marathon event has, it's
becoming more and more these days.
People will travel overseas, Iguess, the last few years being a
little bit tied down with the COVID.
travel restrictions.
So I've wanted to do some of theoverseas marathons but it's taken a
(53:53):
back step just the last few years.
So in the next year or two I amconsidering, I applied for the
Tokyo Marathon which has probably,you have a one in five chance of
getting selected for the race.
So Tokyo is one of the world majors.
They have about 50, 000 runnersin the race but about 300, 000
(54:14):
will apply to get into the race.
So, unfortunately, I didn't getselected for that race for next year.
So, I am considering otherinternational race marathons.
We're lucky in WA, the localmarathons generally don't sell out.
So, the next one for me isBusselton, beginning of February.
So, I think there might beabout 250 marathon entries.
(54:37):
The races that don't sell out, youcan generally enter it in the, like,
probably the one or two months prior.
And some runners like to choose arace a little bit further out, the
three, four months, so that theycan, once you're entered, you're
committed to doing that race.
So, that's also part of, um,holding you to account, I guess.
If you know you've paid yourentry fee, they generally
(54:57):
say 100 mark for a marathon.
Once you've paid your money,there's generally no refund.
So you want to make sure you hitthe start line especially as an
accountant, I don't like to waste money.
So it's, I'm going to turn up,come hell or high water, I'm
turning up to get my finish medal.
Once I've entered a race, I'mcommitted to seeing it out.
So I like to probably enter no morethan two or three marathons at a time
(55:21):
that are spaced out throughout the year.
And probably in that six to eightweeks between the marathons.
So I think there's also Bunbury,Rottnest Island, Perth Marathon,
there's one at Canning River.
There's quite a few.
We're lucky in WA that we have racesspread evenly throughout the year.
I think Bibra Lake, the City toSurf used to have a marathon but
(55:44):
that's gone back to just the 12kilometre distance City to Surf.
So yeah, we're lucky here thatwe've got so many to choose from.
And if you get involved in the community,particularly parkrun, but if you get
to an event, then all you need to do istalk to people and you'll find events.
Oh definitely, the parkrun is goodbecause I mean there's the tailwalker
(56:05):
and there's a reason they're calledtailwalker, so that they'll come, you're
guaranteed you won't come last unlessyou're the tailwalker, so there's always
someone there ready to have a chat.
In my early days of running I wasin the Brisbane run community, I
moved to Perth probably 15 years ago.
But being part of a running club, andthe parkrun is essentially the same thing
these days as local run communities.
(56:27):
We don't need the formal, uh, like theWAMC, the formal marathon run clubs.
We, the smaller communities,is its own run community.
So turn up and chat to other runners.
You'll find someone who's quickerthan you, slower than you, but
you've got the same thing in common.
You're there to turn up anddo the map, the parkrun, Other
(56:48):
distances, different events are on.
There's so many to choose from.
So just chat to people because you'llfind out they have the same goals
that you do, or very similar, andthey also have a, the training program
that they're following and they mighthave entered a marathon or a half
marathon that they're working towards.
So just chat to as many people as you can.
(57:09):
You'll, you'll find people outthere doing similar goals that
you're aiming towards as well.
And then after that, it's justlike buying something online.
You just find the websiteand spend the money.
Yeah, exactly.
So make that first, that commitment, andthen you can build onto it from there.
So, I mean, there are the, in WA,it's the West Australia Marathon Club,
(57:29):
have an all year program available.
So if you go onto their website,they generally like to build race
distances towards key events.
So the Perth Marathon is in October,but the run calendar, is aimed
towards, say, the 10 kilometre bridgerun, the half marathon, I think
there's one at, like, Joondalup.
(57:50):
So there's ways that you build up yourraces to get you to October, which
is generally a good time of the yearto, uh, all your training is keyed
towards that gold race that you mightchoose, middle of the year or October.
So I encourage people to enter a race,get out there and do it, They keep
coming back for more, I guess, sotrying to improve on their own times.
(58:14):
And it's not always about thetime anyway, it's about finishing
as well, has its own place.
I've done a few marathons where I've beenhappy, I've come off an injury, and I'm
happy just to finish a race, but generallyI do like to race and push myself.
Push yourself to that uncomfortablepoint, the breaking point in the race,
overcome that adversity and push throughand still get to the finish line.
(58:35):
Everyone has their own story.
chat to others, see where they'reat in their run journey as well, and
you'll find you have a lot in common.
Well, thank you very much, Jon, forcoming on to Forrest.Chat, and all
the Forrest.Chat listeners wish youthe best in your future endeavours,
which I probably should ask, like,you've done 100, what's next?
(58:56):
Well, I briefly considered retiringat the 100 mark, but because of my
age, I'm 43, I'm too young to retire,so I'm also too young to go back into
ultramarathon running, so I think forme I've got my mind set on the 150
marathon so I think that will set meup for the next 10 years at least.
And then probably comeback and have another chat.
(59:18):
It's been great, thank you,Paul, thank you for inviting
me along, it's been great.
It's been wonderful having youhere Jon, thank you very much.
You've been listening to Forrest.Chat.
Where we talk about individualendeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey, andin today's episode, we talked with Jon
(59:39):
Pendse about 100 competitive marathons.
A huge effort.
Remember, there are four ways toget involved with Forrest.Chat.
Share the domain Forrest.Chat with yourfriends and family and people you meet.
If you subscribe to the emails, youget advanced notice of the episodes.
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(01:00:03):
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(01:00:24):
Until then, enjoy making it happen.
Welcome to Forrest.Chat,where we talk about individual
endeavor in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey, andtoday we're talking with Jon Pendse about
completing his 100th raced marathon.
Jon started racing marathons at about21 years of age, and he's a fast runner.
(00:30):
And he can run far.
He has some very good results andhas been very focused on achieving
100 marathon race finishes.
Welcome to Forrest.Chat, Jon.
Thank you, Paul.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, it's been quite a journey overthe last 20 years, so just a little bit
Brief background, I am 43 now, so ifanyone's seen me, I'm probably quite
(00:52):
short of stature I guess, so I was abit taller when I first started, but
over the years I've, uh, inched a bitcloser to the ground year after year.
You've worn off the soles of your shoes.
I've gone through quite a few pairs ofshoes now, so, being an accountant, savvy
I guess in terms of, uh, trying to savemoney, so my shoes now, I keep them until,
(01:14):
when I, when I get holes in my socks, it'stime for a new pair of shoes, so, used to
be about the thousand kilometre mark, geta new pair of running shoes, these days,
it only takes me probably ten weeks andI've done a thousand kilometres, so I need
to get a few more kilometres out of, outof the shoes before I throw them away.
You think, oh, running's easy, youknow, you can just get out there and
do it, but those, shoes, they don'tlast quite as long as you think.
(01:37):
No, that's right.
I guess it goes back to when Iwas age 15, starting getting into
the school cross country running.
That was quite, uh, my first, uh, stepinto the long distance side of running.
So the shorter distances I was nevergood at, but put me in the, uh,
1500 meters at school and I sort offinished in the top handful of people.
So, age 15, that's when the journeyofficially started, I guess.
(02:01):
But it was probably my firstmarathon about age 21 when I
first did my first marathon.
My first marathon and it took me that sixyear period, I guess, just to get into
the love for the long distance running.
So, I say to people runningis a lifelong career journey.
So don't worry about a couple of years.
It's that 20 year horizon.
(02:22):
So your, your goals shiftover that time duration.
So what you might start offwith, it really doesn't matter.
It's the year after year.
Decade after decade, I guess, to work outwhat has worked, what, how you can get
the best out of yourself over that time.
So, your goals do adjust over thetime and I guess we'll get into
some of those details as to what'sworked for me and the frameworks and
(02:45):
how they got established early on.
Jon, what is a raced marathon?
OK, so the marathon's astandard distance of 42.
195 kilometres.
In the 1 miles.
So that's the standard distance andyou get them all over the world.
The marathon, it's an organised event.
(03:05):
People turn up and runthe distance, the 42.
2 kilometres.
Each city, I guess, you think ofthe London's, New York's, Boston's.
So those are the sixmajors, is that correct?
Yeah, that's
right, the world majors.
So, I actually haven't reallydone majors, so I've been just
staying locally in Australia.
But I've done Sydney Marathon, and GoldCoast, and a lot of local ones in WA.
(03:30):
So predominantly, I preferjust to do the local ones.
So the Rottnest Marathon, andPerth, and Bunbury, Busselton,
those sort of marathons.
I mean, the race itself.
It's any long distance run.
It's a timed race.
When you finish a marathon, you do geta medal generally, so compared to say a
parkrun, if you do the marathon, you getthe finishes medal, you get a, a finished
(03:56):
time, you might get a finisher shirt.
So it's a bit more a lifeachievement, I guess.
So a bucket less itemonce you've done one.
For some people, they're happy with that.
So they may never do another one again.
So I guess if you've done onemarathon, or 100 marathons in my
case, I still say we're equivalent.
We're both marathon finishers.
We've pushed ourselves on the line.
(04:18):
What's come of it at the end ofit, we've both done the same race.
One maybe slightly quicker than the other.
There's always someonequicker, always someone slower.
So really, you're not racingother people in the race.
It's about Pushing yourself tolimits and then trying to improve
if that's what you want to do.
And it's a journey, so it's,each race is a milestone.
(04:39):
There's a whole raft of people, likethe world record's somewhere around
two hours, and a lot of events havecut offs that are probably around
the, what is it, six or seven hours?
Yeah, so depending on the race, I guess,but roughly six and a half to seven
hours would be a race cut off time.
And yeah, the world record, I thinkit's, It's about 2 hours and 30 seconds.
(04:59):
So they have broken the 2 hours inan unofficial race, it was a single
stand alone race set up specificallyto try and break 2 hours, so they had
paces coming in and out of the race.
To hold the pace, to break two hours.
So Eliud Kipchoge was theguy that broke two hours.
And the little bit of footage,like, literally he was the only
(05:22):
one that did the full distance?
Yeah, correct.
So the paces came in andout every five kilometres.
So they maintained an even paceand he just had to hang in the
group, so there's a bit of.
drafting that was going on in termsof um trying to get the most efficient
with cutting out the wind and the racelines for him every second counted so.
(05:42):
So that was a huge effort but not arecord because yes the record is for
people who've run it in a timed racewith other people there and none of
that, although there's probably stillpacing goes on, but you're not paced all
the way to the finish line like he was.
Yeah, so in
a race, generally youhave to start the race.
Everyone starts at the same timeand then if you drop out of the
(06:02):
race, you're out of the race.
So that's why the pace is generallyin your last 25 30 kilometers
before they drop out and then it'sthe winner, he's got another 10 15
kilometers left to run by himself, so.
This is the pointy end, the eliterunners of the best of the best.
These are full time professionalathletes, paid a lot of money
in terms of running scene.
(06:23):
So, for myself, I've alwaysbeen a very good amateur runner.
So, I guess some of my bestmarathon time is 2 hours 41 minutes.
So, it's a fair bit 2 hour time.
In Australia, you're talking the 2 isAustralia's best marathon runners, so
I'm still half an hour behind that, butyou look, you look at those top runners
(06:47):
and see what's working for them and theframework and you're trying to adapt
and use that in your own run journey.
What's working for the best runners,we can learn from that as well as your
everyday runners, and then you can excelyourself and push yourself to improve on
your own personal best times, and thenyou've got a range of different distances.
So for me, marathonrunning is my preferred.
(07:08):
My favourite distance to run, but Ialso run the 5km, 10km, half marathon,
and we'll probably even touch onthe ultra marathons, so we'll get to
that, but my shorter distances leadinto the longer distances in terms
of what is an equivalent race time.
So for me, a 2 hour 41 marathon,my 5k pb is about the 1640.
(07:32):
And it's on par with an equivalentrace time for that distance, so
you want to work on some of yourshorter distances before you move
and step up to the longer distances.
So you need to havethe framework in place.
In order to how can you improve yourmarathon time, you do need to get
quicker at the shorter distances.
Just coming back to the eventstructure, so normally there's a club
(07:55):
or an organiser who's put together acourse and a whole heap of volunteers
usually to be along the course, andwhat do you get to along the course?
Well you've got eight stations alongthe way, there's certain rules that they
have to follow, so a race director, thecourse is generally Accurately measured.
(08:16):
Now you can have a acourse and a B course.
So a would be settingworld record standards.
So there's a lot that goes into thatin terms of the, proper certification,
there's rules around it and haveto use a, I think it's called a
Jones counter that's done on acalibrated bike, those sort of things.
But for local runs where you mighthave say 100, 200 runners in it.
(08:37):
It will cost too much to go throughan A qualification to get it
properly world records ratified.
So the B courses would be usinglike a hand measuring wheel.
So the race directors will gothrough those steps to get their
race accurately measured for the 42.
2 kilometres.
And they also have to have volunteersso that it's well signposted,
(09:02):
marshals at turnaround points.
You need to put the course map together.
There's a bit of things that go into it.
You have an entry process.
You pay an entry fee.
Then putting on the race itself.
You might have aid stations every 5kilometers generally for having water,
electrolytes, gels, those sort of things.
So, everything's set up forthe runner to be able to just
(09:25):
turn up and race it on the day.
Races are comparable, so if you'vedone a marathon, it's the same distance
as to a marathon held somewhere else.
So they're trying to have thatconsistency, the framework
in place to run the marathon.
Standardised process to get it approved.
There's a whole lot of things thathave gone into place and they're
(09:46):
pretty consistent from event to event.
Differences are in the elevationthat you might approach on the course
and the surface and I imagine the Atype courses are probably smoother
and things like that, I'd imagine.
Yeah, probably a little bit quickerand they got, might have road
closures in place and, um, tryingto have a faster course to attract
(10:06):
some of the top runners from variousstates or international runners.
You've got things likeprize money as well.
So some of the bigger races might have,say, 10, 000, 20, 000 prize money, world
record bonuses, those sort of things.
So It's quite a drawcard then interms of having a world major put on.
So Sydney's recently been giventhe tick as a, I think it might be
(10:28):
number seven on the world majors.
So I think in terms of worldmajors you've got London, New York,
Boston, Berlin, Chicago, Tokyoand I think Sydney as well now.
So you get maybe 40, 000people running in those races.
So that's really the best of the bestmarathon runners will go to those
events to try and win the prize money.
(10:50):
But the local ones, I've donesome of the bigger races.
So my biggest race isprobably Sydney Marathon.
Probably had close to eight or ninethousand people the year I ran it.
And then on the other side of thespectrum, I've run in races that might
have had probably 20 to 25 people.
I think Geraldton thesmaller races I've done.
(11:11):
So it's quite a difference, but it'sstill the standardised approach.
And then if you go for differenttimes, it's good to have people
that you can run with as well.
So that's what I've done.
Races where I run the entire way myself.
Other races I've been in differentpace groups, say breaking three hours.
So for amateur runners, threehours is a good benchmark time to
try and break, but you also getthe four hours, five hour runners.
(11:34):
They're also going for their milestoneto try and break those time barriers.
So in marathon running, differentmilestone to break different times.
It's a real, carrot, Iguess, that helped me.
inspire people to push themselvesand break those time barriers.
So, there's somethingspecial to take away.
It doesn't matter if you'retrying to break two and a half
(11:54):
hours, three, four, five hours.
For that person running it on thatday, trying to break their best
time, it's on par with somebodywho's maybe breaking a world record.
Maybe not the prize associated withit, but it's that personal achievement
and that personal milestone.
And what it represents,having that finished medal.
I think everyone who'sdone a marathon will do it.
(12:16):
Appreciate and know trulywhat it takes and has taken
for them along their journey.
And it's a beautiful thingto see people achieving that.
So, Jon, what does it take you torun a hundred race to marathons?
Yeah, so, I've always been a fan of,for me, there's a term I use saying,
(12:37):
I can, I am, and then I like tothink of putting in words into that.
So, for example, I can, I am strong.
I am motivated, I am happy,I am healthy, I am able, I am
inspired, and I am focused.
So each of those thingsis just empowering words.
(12:59):
So when I'm racing, I thinkof these things sometimes.
And sometimes it's justthat single word in a race.
So sometimes I think,what's my word in this race?
And it might be, Sayfor example, inspired.
So what's recent, like in the buildup to that marathon, where am I at?
What's my current inspiration in termsof like, you want to be empowered
(13:19):
for different races as to just tohave at the back of your mind, I like
keep it, keep it short and simple.
So the one word motivation helps justto have that at the back of your mind.
And then that's what you can fallback on in that particular race.
So maybe write it on the backof your hand or somewhere that
you can just visually see it.
These are just very small.
(13:39):
Tips that I've used that justhelp empower you to push yourself
and the reason for your running.
So we've all got different reasonsas to why we're out there running.
And to do week after week, monthafter month, year after year, there's
something special for you to keep going.
You don't want to be burntout and stop running early on.
(14:00):
You want to gradually build over time.
We're all creatures of habitswhere, as humans, there's certain
things that That make us who weare, and you need to tap into that.
So I always think when youfinish a run, are you ever
disappointed in a training run?
So generally it's hardest just to getout the door and start a run, but if
(14:22):
you get past that, just that hurdle,put your race shoes on, or not, sorry,
not race shoes, your training shoes, andyou're having your clothes ready to go.
I like to run first thing in themorning, so, There's no excuses that way.
Get it done first thing in the morning.
Okay, it's always hard to get out ofbed, but But once you've you've slowly
(14:42):
get past those small hurdles as youbuild on it It's no longer a hurdle.
So you want to have as leastexcuses as possible So that
you can just go out and run.
So the training is the hard part.
Racing is easy.
It's the training.
So it's for marathons, I'm generallytraining all year round for marathon
(15:05):
running, but I will peak up and downduring the year as to, in terms of
getting my peak performance and youhave a roller coaster of training.
So you adapt during the year.
So you start off the year and yougradually month after month, slowly
try and peak towards your goal races.
(15:26):
So, it's that gradual approach andyou use the human biology framework
as to how, how can we tap into that.
So, the routine of being able to justbuild up your routine, get past that
six weeks, it becomes a routine, youstick on your routine, and that's it.
It's become habit.
(15:47):
So it's learning on these littlethings and that's what I've done in
my whole 20 years of marathon running.
It's focusing on the routine,the discipline, the focus and
the reason why I'm running.
So the healthy, Lifestyle, being inspired.
So the 100 marathons has always beena long term vision, and it's always
(16:10):
been something that I've thoughtI would love to hit 100 marathons.
How am I going to get there?
And I knew it was going to be probablya 20 year journey to get there, and
I didn't think it Try and do the100 marathons as quick as possible.
It was about having a sustainableapproach doing four or five marathons
a year But over a long term durationSo you're trying to minimize injury
(16:33):
and downtime and just keep the traininggoing and then you put your races in
So it's been that long term approach.
So with that ebbing and flowing effectHave there been times when you've?
stopped to the point where you go,wow, this is really hard to get back.
You have to have thatsolid training behind you.
So for me, when I'm training, it'sabout hitting the flow state, I
(16:57):
guess, in terms of the fresh air,the finding the zen, the stress free.
These are reasons why we love running.
So yeah.
If you can find that sweet spot interms of that's why we're running, we're
not going out there and it's a chore.
We're doing it because we just lovethe running, so the speed that you're
running at doesn't really matter.
So if you're training at 5, 6, 7 minutekilometer pace, you're trying to find
(17:21):
that free state feeling where Minutescan just feel like hours and hours.
Time is no longer relevant.
Exactly.
So when, when you find thatstate and it's the enjoyment,
that's what you're looking for.
So everything else is just relativeto that fixed state, I guess.
So you find that point.
And you want to just build on itweek after week, month after month.
(17:44):
So it's something thatgrows with you over time.
I try not to put pressure on myselfto perform because it's a long
term approach and I've adapted andimproved my race times over many
years working what works for me.
There's different training regimes,how many kilometers a week you can do.
How many interval sessions, yourlong runs, these are all things that
(18:08):
come with time and your experience.
So the flow state is actually a wellknown thing, it applies to work.
You're far more productive whenyou're in the flow state at work, and
then you're very easily pulled outof your flow state, particularly at
work by distractions and phone callsringing, all those sorts of things.
(18:30):
Knowing how to get yourselfinto a flow state is something
that is actually really special.
So do you by chance have a processthat you go through that helps
you get into that flow state?
Yep.
So I've never used music whenI've been running because for
me, it doesn't work for me.
So first of all, I can't, I can'trun with music and the fresh air.
(18:53):
And just getting the heartrate up, the endorphin rush.
For me, once I get through the firstcouple of kilometers just warming up,
the run's easy then, because it might be,um, say I'm going out for an hour's run.
I can do that day in, day out.
I've worked in The structuredframework for training works for
(19:13):
me, so you have recovery runs, someinterval sessions, a medium distance
run, and a long distance run.
So, that forms the framework froma week to week process, in terms
of just doing those stock standardruns, probably about three weeks.
14, 15 years ago, Iintroduced double days.
So one run wasn't enough,I wanted to do two.
(19:36):
But the second run would generallybe, say, half an hour to 40 minutes.
And it was more stimulating the enduranceand time on feet for marathon running.
So if you can run in a tired state,your body just becomes accustomed to it.
And you want to build, for me it wasabout building up my base kilometres,
roughly say 100 kilometres a week.
(19:56):
But in the early days, I was probablyrunning 30 to 40 kilometers a
week and took me several years tobuild it up to the 100 kilometers.
And then I threw in the doubledays and I'd get up to, say, the
120 to 140 kilometer range andprobably in the last five years,
my I'm running 140 to 160km a week.
But that's probably been in the lastfour or five years as I've slowly
(20:19):
tailored my, what's worked for me, andbuilt up your strength and endurance.
So there is that, the structurebehind it to help you get,
like, push yourself along.
So you, you can't just, you know, Bestale in your training approach, I guess.
You do need to change things up sometime,or Go off road, maybe some trails, go
different route that you might not be usedto, or parkruns is a perfect example where
(20:43):
you can go and Run at different parkruns,week in, week out, just Drive somewhere
else, Try it, just mix it up a little bit.
So the parkruns for me, I'm, I'mbig into the parkruns because it's
just every Saturday, 5km, turn up.
If you want to race it, you can race it.
If you want to use it as a training run,where say you might progressively run
each kilometre quicker, you can adaptwhat works, like do a test race, I guess.
(21:08):
So start slow, finish fast, startfast, finish slow, these sort
of things, or 1km on, 1km off.
The parkrun's just a goodway of just working out.
Push yourself to your limits if youwant a time trial and you want to
have feedback along the way as towhere you're at in your training.
So I like to not train for one race.
(21:30):
Some people might have a six monthtraining block and they rarely race.
So they don't get the feedback in termsof where they're at in their training.
They're trusting their 6 month, or maybeit's a longer, 6 to 8 month marathon
training plan with not many races in it.
I'm the opposite.
I like to race almost every 1 or 2 weeks.
The shorter distances, throwin a half marathon, a 10km.
(21:54):
But it's the stepping stonesalong the way to the marathon.
So, I like to race many times a yearrather than just one or two races a year,
so I like to have the feedback, and that'swhy I'm running four or five marathons
a year, just to give me that feedback.
And I'm using it as steppingstone towards the next marathon.
Start of the year I might be inthat three hour range for a marathon
(22:17):
running, just because I've had abit of downtime over Christmas.
Come March, April I might becloser to 2 hour 50 marathon.
June, July I'm probably closer to 2hour 45 and in the last couple years
I've been closer to 2 hour 40 marathon.
It takes you that 3 4 months ofhaving that fine tuning what works
for you, dropping the kilograms down.
(22:39):
I mean everyone's each totheir own what works for them.
Doesn't work for everyone, and this hastaken me quite some time to work out
my best approach, what works for me.
From the distraction side of things,running is my outlet to then not be
distracted at work, I guess, so I liketo go for lunchtime runs at work, so
(22:59):
just to get escape from day to day I'm afinance manager, so accountant by trade
I guess, in terms of um, in front ofthe computer all day, but um, having a
lunch break just to break up the day, goout, fresh air, get the blood flowing,
the endorphins, go back to your desk andjust a little bit more focus then, so.
(23:20):
For me personally, I think my, myday job helps me be a better runner.
So I have tried being a full time runner.
It doesn't work for me.
So I need to have a structuredhaving a desk job works well, cause
you're, you're off your legs and,uh, sitting down and then go out
for, so I might do a run before work.
At lunchtime, generallyit doesn't work for me.
(23:40):
Evening run, just by the end of theday I'm ready to put my feet up,
but that's why I like doing my runfirst thing in the morning when you
wake up, for me it works better, so.
The distractions, you want tostructure your day to get what's your
priority, get your things in donefirst thing in the day, for example.
Or a lunchtime run, no excusesthen, you have a shower at the end
(24:00):
of it and go back to work, but.
Workout, everyone's got a differentroutine that works for them, so it's,
time is the finite source I guess,so how much time will you, are you
willing to dedicate to what you'retrying to do at that particular time,
and it's a journey I guess, so overtime In the early days I might be
(24:21):
training four or five hours a week.
These days I'm probablydoing 12 to 15 hours a week.
So you need to work at how you're goingto fit that time in to become a priority.
So it might mean you get up an extrahalf an hour earlier in the morning.
But you're ticking it off, you'regetting it done every day, or say
three, four days a week, whatever itis where you're at in your journey.
(24:43):
And it might not be running, it couldbe cycling, swimming, all these other
things that people enjoy promotinga healthier lifestyle, I guess.
So if you find what your passionis, And you stick to it, you're
going to become better and a moreall round better person for you.
That's really a good point, becauseyou go, OK, you're finding what
(25:06):
you want to do, you're finding whatsuits you, and then it's actually
benefiting every area of your life.
Yeah, exactly.
So for me, My kids are 14 and 15.
I've always tried being the, I mean,I'm sure everyone else does as well,
but your best role model, knowing thatyou're highly influencing the outcome
of your developing young, young kids.
(25:28):
So trying to promote what is a healthylifestyle, how do you set goals?
And then along the way, the ups and thedowns, but you still got the vision to
achieve what you're setting out to do.
So I think it's, It's extremely important,and even in the run community, a lot
of people know my name in the WA runcommunity, doesn't mean I'm the best
(25:49):
runner, but I consistently get out there.
I have good days and bad days.
Some races are worse than others fordifferent reasons, but the passion,
the love, I just love getting outthere and putting myself on the line.
So some people have seen mein races, I might blow up in
a race, hit the wall, I guess.
So the marathon's something thattests you and put you, puts you to
(26:10):
your limit, but it's both the peoplethat see you out there do it for you.
Doing it week after week.
They know that you, you are puttingyourself on the line and there's no
guarantee of success, but the factthat you're gonna come back and do it
again the next week and the week after
, we've heard now a lot about what it takes Jon to run a hundred raced marathons.
(26:33):
We'll have a break now, andafter the break we'll come
back and look at what it means.
Now that we've had a look at what ittakes, let's have a look at what it means.
Jon, what does it mean to you, your familyor the community that you've been able
(26:54):
to complete a hundred race to marathons?
Yeah, so for me, I takea lot of inspiration.
It's a reverse inspiration, I guess.
So I see the community runners, Theback of the pack runners, the slower
runners, they're as passionate, if notmore passionate, than I am about running.
And I take inspiration from thatbecause the longer you're out there
(27:15):
in these races, the harder it is.
So if the quicker runners have trainedfor it and they've put themselves
on the line, they're finishingsometimes half an hour, an hour
ahead of some of the middle runners.
And then the back of the pack runnersare coming in two hours later.
So For me, I get inspiration from thatbecause I know what they've had to go
through to get to that finish line.
(27:37):
They've pushed themselves totheir breaking points, I guess.
In the community, you get all aroundabilities, I guess, in terms of we're
all equals and we're equivalents in termsof when it comes to putting ourself,
we all turning up for the same race.
So it doesn't matter if you'rewinning the race or coming last.
There's a reason that we're out theredoing what we, what we love doing.
(27:59):
So for me, it means being ableto give back to community, having
your name out there as well.
So it's, , not putting pressure onyourself, but your name is someone others
look up to and use you as a gauge as wellin terms of, it's good to see some of the,
the top end runners still have bad races.
So when you race so much, there aresome races where For whatever reason,
(28:22):
you might fall back in the race, yourheart rate's, you've gone out too quick,
or, but it's being able to come thatadversity, and having your experience
to know what to do, and persevere, andpush through, and still finish the race.
So I like to, my bad races are almostas important to me as my good races.
(28:43):
Better races.
So a personal best is a, it'sa reason it's, it's a personal
milestone for yourself.
But the slower runs are just as importantfor some of those community runners
and for family and friends to see thatyou're just a everyday runner as well.
So I think it's very important to,to show that not to put ourselves
(29:03):
on pedestals and someone I liketo be on par with everyone else.
And we, we all have that passion as well,so it's good to have somewhere as a middle
ground to come together and have a chat.
And there's a lot of common denominators,I guess, across the running is just
our passion in terms of the sportthat we're in, but you can apply the
(29:25):
same principles to other sports andother community events and hobbies.
And that's why we cometogether as a community.
We've got the love forfinishing the races.
And having the respect, seeing people comeback and they're still there years later.
So it's, you're also having,you're building relationships
with people along that time.
(29:45):
So you're getting the common activities,whatever that activity is, you're out
there doing it together and then you'resharing in the Rewards and benefits
of taking part in those activities.
Yeah, exactly.
So to me failure is essential reallyso I've had several did not finishes in
races where I've actually so a coupleof ultra marathons One of the races the
(30:08):
Delirious West, I went back a second time.
So this is a 200 mile race and it wasprobably within the first 10km I rolled
my ankle to the point where I couldn't runon it, so I had to pull out of that race.
But some of these failures, theymake us a better runner as well, so
there are setbacks along the way.
But it's, sometimes you have to acceptthe race wasn't meant to be on that
(30:30):
particular day for whatever reason.
So failure's part of success, really.
So you become a more resilientrunner, and it helps give you that
mindset of growth for future success.
It's the same in work and other passionsthat you have, so that the failure and
it's that circle framework, I guess,in terms of going through the process.
(30:53):
Sometimes there is the failure, butwhen you go back and start again,
it means you've, you're adding toyour experience to make you a better
person, better runner and the love forlife, I guess, at the end of the day.
Running teach you a lot about life.
Oh, without a doubt.
I mean, it's, for me, runningkeeps me grounded, I guess.
(31:14):
So that's the constant, I guess.
It's always there.
Running is something that I can do day in,day out, and it makes me a better person.
I just enjoy it.
So it's every time in, in running,sometimes you, you step back, you reflect,
and you adapt, ready to move forwardsin terms of setting your next challenge.
(31:35):
As part of my 100 marathons,As a side interest, I have
done a few ultra marathons.
So an ultra marathon isanything more than the 42.
2 kilometers.
So an ultra marathon, 50kilometers, 100 kilometers.
So the longest race I've donewas, like I mentioned, the
Delirious West 200 mile race.
So approximately 320 kilometers.
(31:58):
So I've had, I've used ultramarathonsas, just to give me a more broader
experience because I found themindset gives you an extra tool in
your, your marathon toolbox I guess.
So I've used ultramarathon running tomake me a stronger marathon runner.
So your mind shift changes afteryou've done a 100 kilometre race
(32:21):
or a 200 mile race really, , resetsboundaries and makes you take, um,
a step back and appreciate what themarathon distance truly means for you.
Interesting thing to thinkabout that expansion of your
boundaries, your capabilities.
That's quite a big thing thatis a real positive in your life.
(32:41):
Mastering the marathon is onething, but to become a more rounded
runner, I think you do have to pushyourself mentally so that you're
just a stronger all around runner.
So, some of my ultramarathons, thetraining for those ultramarathons,
I did some all night running, soas part of my 200 mile race, I live
(33:05):
in Kingsley and I chose to run toMandurah, which is 110 kilometers away.
So I start about twoo'clock in the morning.
And I planned to get to Rockinghamfor 8 o'clock for the parkrun.
So it was a 65km warm up to getto Rockingham for the parkrun.
So I turned up probably about20 30 minutes beforehand.
(33:26):
So a 65km warm up, and Ifelt good by that stage.
I went out and I think I did a sub 20minute parkrun, which I was happy with.
But I still had another 30kmafter that to get to Mandurah,
and then I got the train home.
But, I mean Something like that, youset yourself up, just, you think of
an extreme situation, you just haveto go in the deep end, put yourself
(33:48):
in it, there's no, you're not goingto give up, however long it takes.
I set out to, I mean, these weredeliberate training, goals as to
getting me ready for a 200 mile race.
So as part of that, I had tofind my breaking point in terms
of an ultra marathon distance.
So I'd done, before the 200 milerace, I had done a five time 100
kilometer race in the Australind race.
(34:10):
Australia Day, race.
So I was a well experienced ultramarathonrunner, but 200 miles was the next
level, I guess, in terms of a distance.
So that's why one of the challenges inthe 200 mile race was setting myself
some new challenges that's goingto push me beyond my comfort zone.
So I did find my breaking pointthat particular day, but I did
(34:32):
push on and get to Mandurah.
Luckily, I still had my, um, smart cardtrain card, so I could get the train home.
So that would have been Bit of astruggle if I got there and didn't
have my train card and I didn't take,uh, didn't have any money as well.
So I probably should have thought thatone through a little bit better, but I did
have my train card so I could get home.
That's it.
I, when I was a youngster, I hadto ask a taxi driver for five
(34:56):
cents to complete my fee to get onthe train to get back to school.
So similar sort of thing.
So it's really interesting having thoseexperiences where literally you just
go out and do it and You get to theend and you go, okay, now what do I do?
Yeah, I think pushing yourselfbeyond what your normal limits are.
(35:17):
It's part of having that longerterm vision, what you are
setting yourself up to achieve.
So for me, I want the marathonis important to me, but the ultra
marathons for a few years, I wasfocused on the ultra marathon running.
Just to give me that all round abilityand the passion for just running hour
after hour, it takes a lot out of you.
(35:39):
But you adjust your pace, you'relooking at hydration, nutrition,
your run gear, so your shoes.
camelbacks, those sort of things,like how are you actually going to
get to the 200 mile distance, I guess.
So you need to adapt and work outwhat your new goal is that you're
(36:00):
working towards, and then adjust, useyour experience, and move forwards,
and just have a methodical approach.
So it's, it's good having that,the SMART principle, I guess, in
terms of Specific, measurable,achievable, realistic in a time frame.
So these are things that I use tostructure a training program as to what
(36:23):
the outcome that I'm aiming towards.
Because you do want successat the end of the day as well.
So personal success, that's part of themotivation that pushes us and incentivizes
us to get to the end and see it through.
Yes, and you don't get there unlessyou've set the goal in the first place.
And the smart goals that you mentioned,that's a very important concept to
(36:46):
understand in order to have goalsthat you can actually achieve.
Yeah, so you want to celebrate the smallwins along the way, so for me it's been
a gradual, what are the small wins that Ican take and then how can I take the small
wins and move forwards and build it up.
So, I mean, generally for long distancerunners, they start off with the 5
(37:08):
and 10 kilometers and half marathon.
It's a gradual approach.
So you chip away at it week afterweek, month after month, but you're
slowly just moving towards a longerterm vision and a longer term goal.
So don't be in a rush to get towhat your long term vision is.
There's, there's no real rush andurgency to get there straight away
(37:31):
because you want to leave some things.
You, you will become a betterrunner year after year.
So if your goal was to run amarathon in after six months or
a year, that's all well and good.
And that's going to incentivizeyou for that particular goal.
Don't write off the fact that you'dbe a better marathon runner in
five years time or ten years time.
(37:53):
It's part of that adaption processand your body takes time to make
it the best version of itselfto achieve your best outcome.
So some of us just doing morekilometres each week is going
to make you a better runner.
Making your long run go from 15kilometres to 25 to 30 kilometres as a
(38:15):
long distance, your long run for thatweek, you'll become a better runner if
you just focus on that and build on it.
So you want to start small.
And work up to the biggerwins along the way.
So, for me, year after year, I'vehad the small wins along the way.
And then I celebrate the marathonmilestones along the way as well.
(38:35):
So, for me, it was the 10marathons, and then the 25, 50.
So, they've been celebrated at the time.
They were important,and they were special.
That helped me become a moresuccessful runner for myself.
They're very important lessons to learnto maintain your own peace of mind and
sense of capability and you feel somuch better when you're able to achieve
(38:59):
goals and if you have no goals along theway and you never feel like you achieve
anything you don't get that satisfaction.
Yeah, the mentalpreparation is part of it.
So you do need to make yourselfa mentally strong person.
So an all round ability.
So it's, it's essential for thesmall wins along the way and not
to go too far in the deep end.
(39:20):
So for me, I didn't just jump inand do my overnight run to Mandurah.
That was probably 15 years in thebuildup before I was ready to do that.
For me, personally, the first 10 yearswas just getting into the routine
and the structure and building on it.
Working out what is working wellfor me, what isn't working well, the
training structure, week to week,what works for me and what doesn't.
(39:44):
It was probably five years ago I movedaway from a high carb diet to a low
carb diet, and for me that worked well.
So, for me personally, it was aboutmoving into the fat burning adaption.
So, just having your body, because Iwas doing endurance running, so for me,
I didn't really need the fast twitchand the carbs and the sugars, so for
(40:05):
me I wanted the slower try and convertyour body over to a longer endurance
fat burning process, so it worked forme and so it doesn't work for everyone.
For me, it's personally worked well forme and I've achieved my best times in
the last five years, but I've had theprevious ten years was just getting
the routine and the pattern and justkeep turning up week after week.
(40:30):
You can fine tune what works for youbest after you've had the experience and
there's no right or wrong answer, but it'sbeing, um, back yourself and try, don't
be afraid to try new things, mix up yourtraining a little bit and meet new people.
Set new goals, different race distances.
I mean these days you can have trail racesand multi adventure sport races, cycling.
(40:54):
I mean there's, there's Ironmans,there's a whole range of things.
So for me I'm lucky thatrunning's an all year round.
In WA we have pretty much marathons 10months of the year is marathon running.
It used to be six months of the year wouldbe marathon season, and you'd have a six
month off season, so you need to findother, something to keep you, um, have
(41:15):
new goals, I guess, in the off season,so it's hard to stay motivated, so we're
lucky in WA, perfect weather, and get outto new scenery, or different parkruns,
with, there's probably 35, 40 parkruns inWA that you can go out, easily go to, and
It just mixes it up a little bit, I guess.
So, try not to get stale in your approach,and you can apply this, it doesn't matter
(41:37):
what your hobby and your passion is.
Keep it passionate for a reason.
So, you want to keep the love,because that's the pure side of it.
For me, it's, you can see it,everyone who knows me can see that.
That's where the motivation is.
Exactly, yeah, yep, yep, 100%.
We've had a look now at what it means.
We'll have a break, and after thebreak, we'll look at how you do it.
(42:05):
We've got a good understandingnow of what it means, now
we'll look at how do you do it.
Jon, the big question is, how doyou do a hundred raced marathons?
Or do you want to go a little bitsmaller and how do we do a marathon?
Take it back to the basics I guess,and starts with a small framework, and
(42:26):
you build on your framework and youadd to the framework as time goes on.
The general framework for runninganyway, is a mid week medium
run, a long run on the weekends.
So once a week you do a long run, amedium sized run, maybe one interval
session or like a threshold typerun where you're pushing yourself.
(42:47):
And then the other days wouldbe recovery, light runs.
So that's just the framework interms of what a long distance
structured training program is.
So you want to set yourself up.
To follow a training plan is a good start.
Start with a vision or a goal interms of what race you're actually
aiming to run and then how much timehave you got before that race is on
(43:10):
and just scale it back a little bit.
So I do like having, say, a 12 weektraining plan towards, like a goal
marathon, but the 12 week plan is goodfor that race and you can throw in
other races in that 12 week period.
And so those smaller races becomestepping stones for the marathon, maybe
(43:31):
at the end of that 12 week period.
Before you go on there, you mentioned acouple of different types of runs that
my listeners might not be aware of.
So what's a threshold run?
Okay, so a threshold run wouldbe, I guess when you think about
training, it's the heart rate zone.
So generally, you might have zones 1to 5, where Your heart rate, if you
(43:52):
move into, say, the Zone 5 would bewhere you get lactic acid build up.
It's a sprint, basically,for long distance running.
So it's a high heart rate at that end?
High heart rate.
Something that you can't maintain.
So you don't want to be in Zone 5, prettymuch never, for long distance running.
If you get in Zone 5, that's probablythe 100 metre and 200 metre races
for short distance sprinters.
(44:13):
So that, they'll, they'll work inthat Zone 5 as they're training.
For long distance runners, it's aboutmost of the work is done in zone three.
So it's a say a conversationalpace, something you can maintain
for say half an hour to an hour.
So a threshold run wouldgenerally be in that zone four
where you're pushing yourself.
(44:34):
It's not conversational pace, and it'ssomething you might be able to maintain
for say, as a rough timeframe, say20 to 30 minutes as a total effort.
So you might do some interval running.
where you might do, say, one kilometrefaster pace at that non conversational
threshold, the heart rate zone.
(44:55):
Might have a one kilometre off, soone kilometre on, one kilometre off.
When you're pushing that one kilometre,you're pushing yourself into that
zone four, and then in the off, youmight drop back to that zone two,
where it's just a light recovery,back onto that one kilometre.
You're pushing yourself backinto that zone four again.
So the threshold is just trying to getyour race pace, pushing yourself into the
(45:20):
uncomfortable zone, but it's manageable.
So some of these, people are pushingthemselves in different training programs.
The threshold is an important partof it because you want to push
yourself in training so that whenyou come to race day, you've been
uncomfortable before in your training.
You've, you've tested yourself.
On race day, you don't really get, Therecovery time, so it's uh, the five
(45:42):
kilometres is a good threshold timetrial sort of what you can maintain.
So the threshold is just pushing yourself,going for a higher heart rate and
seeing how long you can maintain it for.
There's a whole myriad of differentintervals and say there's also, I like
to do a progressive run where each,in training, each kilometre might be
slightly quicker than the last kilometre.
(46:04):
The tip is to start your firstkilometre as slow as possible.
So that each kilometre you're just goinga little bit quicker, but by the end of
it, say, a 5 or 6 kilometre threshold.
It's a progressive threshold.
By the last kilometre, yourlast kilometre's your quickest.
So I mean, people can change thingsup as to how they want to build that
(46:25):
threshold run into their structured week.
So threshold's an important one.
The middle, medium run midweek, for methat might be a 15 to 20 kilometre run.
But it's generally in that zone 3, soit's, you're not pushing yourself, you're
just trying to maintain time on feet.
It's a comfortable run.
For marathon running, you just wanttime on feet is, is very important.
(46:49):
In that middle distance run, youmight, a couple of times, you might
throw in one or two kilometer effortsjust to go a little bit quicker
in that, that middle distance run.
And then your long distancerun would be that zone 2 or 3.
where for me it might be a 25to 35 kilometre, two to two
and a half hour sort of run.
So, so they're the key ones whereyou have a specific outcome of those
(47:14):
training runs and your recoverydays are also important as well.
So some people might throw in a gymsession, cycling, swimming, like just
some general cardio, which is goodbecause we're all at different different
levels of our ability in terms ofhow many kilometres is manageable.
For me, the 100km a week, I can dothat week in week out, it's not a
(47:36):
problem, but for others it might bethat 50 60km a week, but you can be,
if you can improve your cardio, it'sgoing to give you a better run ability
as well, so it doesn't mean you justneed to go and do a 100km a week, it's
working out what the balance is and whatworks for you, and your long distance
run might only be 10 15km, and that'sabsolutely fine, For where you're at.
(47:59):
Medium run might be a 5 to 10kilometre distance, which is also fine.
And your recovery runsmight be 2 to 3 kilometres.
So, it's all relative for wherewe're at in our journey and what our
ability is, and being realistic aboutwhat we're trying to get out of it.
So, stepping right back to the couch,there's even a couch to 5K program.
(48:22):
So, in the beginning, those distances,are, walking, and then occasionally
they bring in short distances ofrunning into those programs and
they build you up bit by bit and theaim for that is to get you to 5km.
And then, once you're doing 5km, well,most people can walk 5km anyway, but
when you build up that little bit,even if you get to that 5km once a
(48:44):
week and go to parkrun for example,then even from there you can step up.
parkrun is a great place to be.
Meet people who you can then do littlebits extra with during the week.
Rather than doing one run a week,you can do one run mid week, and
you can just build up, and you nevergo past where you feel comfortable.
(49:04):
Exactly, it's havingthat routine in place.
So it's very important toset up that framework and the
structure of what works for you.
So how much time have you got toinvest into that weekly structure?
So a good way at work, say for example,I like to go out for lunchtime runs.
Half an hour is easy, it's done inthe middle of the day, there's no
competing time constraints other thanlike meetings, because I'm a little bit
(49:28):
flexible on lunchtime runs and maybe tryand do that three or four days a week.
They're the ones that are just noexcuses, go out and get them done.
Also I like to run first thing in themorning as well, so set your alarm say
half an hour earlier, just to give youa little bit of extra time out there.
So these are all little toolsand tips that you can just build
on, but the important part ishaving the routine in place.
(49:49):
And once you have the routinein place, it's not a chore.
And you do it day afterday, week after week.
And it doesn't mean you'rerunning 7 days a week.
That's something for me that'staken probably 10 years, I
guess, to 7 day a week runner.
But in the early days, itwas probably 3 days a week.
But I'd be, the routine was important.
So I did those 3 runs every week,without fail, because that was
(50:14):
important to me, and that's whatI wanted to invest my time in.
And it grew from that, so the threeweekly runs would move into the
four and the five and the weekendlong run, those sort of things.
So you can build on that as time goes.
So the couch to fivekilometres is perfect.
Getting to a new routine, youhave to start somewhere, so
it's that personal challenge.
Everyone wants to be the best versionof themselves, but time and when
(50:37):
that fits into their life and thework life balance and lifestyle
and the healthy, healthy, healthy.
Promoting a healthier lifestyle.
It's all how does it fitin at that point in time?
And once you have the foundation, that'swhen you can build on it and add more
time to it and you can work out whatgoals you you want to move towards.
So the parkrun's been perfect in termsof community runners just getting
(51:01):
out and doing the five kilometers.
Getting their milestonesof 50 a hundred and plus.
I think I'm up to about 235parkruns now, so that's parkrun's
just been a foundation run that.
it's my Saturday threshold timetrial sort of run generally, and
Sunday would be my long, long run.
Occasionally I'll miss the parkrun onthe Saturday if I'm racing on a Sunday,
(51:22):
but I have been known to do a parkrun atmoderate pace on the Saturday and then
back up on the Sunday and do another race.
So each to their own as to whatworks for them and some, some races
are more goal races than others.
Others are just the steppingstone races along the way.
So if it's a goal race, like Igenerally have an A race and a
B race for the year where theyare, they're the important ones.
(51:45):
So I wouldn't put myself onthe line on the Saturday.
The goal race is the onethat's your focus for.
The ones along the way is just theones that you've been able to tick
off the milestones along the way.
So the 100 Marathons has been justThe four or five marathons a year has
just been, I've been able to chip awayat it, and still performing for my
(52:06):
one or two key races for that year.
I did ten marathons thisyear to hit the 100.
At the start of the year I generallylike to work up and peak for the
races by mid year when it's winterconditions, perfect running.
So for me it's generally a three, fourmonth conditioning, peaking phase.
So I start the year generally a littlebit slower, but by middle of the year
(52:27):
I'm probably 15 20 minutes quicker, butit's taken me that four or five months
to get that 15 20 minutes quicker.
So I'm still trying to push that2 hour 40 marathon mark for me.
It's been a personal milestonein terms of my marathon goals,
so I'm still working towards it.
So I'm not writing it offand discounting it just yet.
(52:48):
It's still, watch this space.
I did do a 2.
45 was my best marathon time this year.
Every marathon I'm proud of anyway,but it's a personal milestone as well
as to, it keeps pushing me along totry and push myself to my limits.
Let's just talk a little bit about themechanics of getting to enter an event.
(53:09):
How do you find an event and enter it?
I guess I'm a seasoned marathon runnernow, so I know all my local marathons.
In WA there's probably close to10 or 11 marathons that we have.
There's running calendars.
I mean, these days, Googlesearches and almost every major
city has its own marathon, soit's what time of the year it is.
(53:29):
And if you want to travel, so ifI've had family holidays, it's
like, which marathon can I do?
What time of the year is it?
As to, alright, we're going to go, adestination marathon event has, it's
becoming more and more these days.
People will travel overseas, Iguess, the last few years being a
little bit tied down with the COVID.
travel restrictions.
So I've wanted to do some of theoverseas marathons but it's taken a
(53:53):
back step just the last few years.
So in the next year or two I amconsidering, I applied for the
Tokyo Marathon which has probably,you have a one in five chance of
getting selected for the race.
So Tokyo is one of the world majors.
They have about 50, 000 runnersin the race but about 300, 000
(54:14):
will apply to get into the race.
So, unfortunately, I didn't getselected for that race for next year.
So, I am considering otherinternational race marathons.
We're lucky in WA, the localmarathons generally don't sell out.
So, the next one for me isBusselton, beginning of February.
So, I think there might beabout 250 marathon entries.
(54:37):
The races that don't sell out, youcan generally enter it in the, like,
probably the one or two months prior.
And some runners like to choose arace a little bit further out, the
three, four months, so that theycan, once you're entered, you're
committed to doing that race.
So, that's also part of, um,holding you to account, I guess.
If you know you've paid yourentry fee, they generally
(54:57):
say 100 mark for a marathon.
Once you've paid your money,there's generally no refund.
So you want to make sure you hitthe start line especially as an
accountant, I don't like to waste money.
So it's, I'm going to turn up,come hell or high water, I'm
turning up to get my finish medal.
Once I've entered a race, I'mcommitted to seeing it out.
So I like to probably enter no morethan two or three marathons at a time
(55:21):
that are spaced out throughout the year.
And probably in that six to eightweeks between the marathons.
So I think there's also Bunbury,Rottnest Island, Perth Marathon,
there's one at Canning River.
There's quite a few.
We're lucky in WA that we have racesspread evenly throughout the year.
I think Bibra Lake, the City toSurf used to have a marathon but
(55:44):
that's gone back to just the 12kilometre distance City to Surf.
So yeah, we're lucky here thatwe've got so many to choose from.
And if you get involved in the community,particularly parkrun, but if you get
to an event, then all you need to do istalk to people and you'll find events.
Oh definitely, the parkrun is goodbecause I mean there's the tailwalker
(56:05):
and there's a reason they're calledtailwalker, so that they'll come, you're
guaranteed you won't come last unlessyou're the tailwalker, so there's always
someone there ready to have a chat.
In my early days of running I wasin the Brisbane run community, I
moved to Perth probably 15 years ago.
But being part of a running club, andthe parkrun is essentially the same thing
these days as local run communities.
(56:27):
We don't need the formal, uh, like theWAMC, the formal marathon run clubs.
We, the smaller communities,is its own run community.
So turn up and chat to other runners.
You'll find someone who's quickerthan you, slower than you, but
you've got the same thing in common.
You're there to turn up anddo the map, the parkrun, Other
(56:48):
distances, different events are on.
There's so many to choose from.
So just chat to people because you'llfind out they have the same goals
that you do, or very similar, andthey also have a, the training program
that they're following and they mighthave entered a marathon or a half
marathon that they're working towards.
So just chat to as many people as you can.
(57:09):
You'll, you'll find people outthere doing similar goals that
you're aiming towards as well.
And then after that, it's justlike buying something online.
You just find the websiteand spend the money.
Yeah, exactly.
So make that first, that commitment, andthen you can build onto it from there.
So, I mean, there are the, in WA,it's the West Australia Marathon Club,
(57:29):
have an all year program available.
So if you go onto their website,they generally like to build race
distances towards key events.
So the Perth Marathon is in October,but the run calendar, is aimed
towards, say, the 10 kilometre bridgerun, the half marathon, I think
there's one at, like, Joondalup.
(57:50):
So there's ways that you build up yourraces to get you to October, which
is generally a good time of the yearto, uh, all your training is keyed
towards that gold race that you mightchoose, middle of the year or October.
So I encourage people to enter a race,get out there and do it, They keep
coming back for more, I guess, sotrying to improve on their own times.
(58:14):
And it's not always about thetime anyway, it's about finishing
as well, has its own place.
I've done a few marathons where I've beenhappy, I've come off an injury, and I'm
happy just to finish a race, but generallyI do like to race and push myself.
Push yourself to that uncomfortablepoint, the breaking point in the race,
overcome that adversity and push throughand still get to the finish line.
(58:35):
Everyone has their own story.
chat to others, see where they'reat in their run journey as well, and
you'll find you have a lot in common.
Well, thank you very much, Jon, forcoming on to Forrest.Chat, and all
the Forrest.Chat listeners wish youthe best in your future endeavours,
which I probably should ask, like,you've done 100, what's next?
(58:56):
Well, I briefly considered retiringat the 100 mark, but because of my
age, I'm 43, I'm too young to retire,so I'm also too young to go back into
ultramarathon running, so I think forme I've got my mind set on the 150
marathon so I think that will set meup for the next 10 years at least.
And then probably comeback and have another chat.
(59:18):
It's been great, thank you,Paul, thank you for inviting
me along, it's been great.
It's been wonderful having youhere Jon, thank you very much.
You've been listening to Forrest.Chat.
Where we talk about individualendeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey, andin today's episode, we talked with Jon
(59:39):
Pendse about 100 competitive marathons.
A huge effort.
Remember, there are four ways toget involved with Forrest.Chat.
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(01:00:03):
If you're doing something interesting,or have done something interesting in
the past that other people might findencouraging or inspiring, then book an
interview at Forrest.Chat slash interview.
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Forrest.Chat slash advert.
I'm looking forward tobeing with our next guest.
(01:00:24):
Until then, enjoy making it happen.
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