5. Relationship Over Religion (w/ Jennifer Nettles)

Special Guest: Jennifer Nettles

Hosted by: Paul Del Giudice and Kathryn Kihyet Beatty

Sponsored by: America's Thrift Stores

Produced by: Home of Grace

 

Jennifer shares her journey from addiction to redemption through divine grace. Her story challenges the stigma attached to addiction and invites others to witness the transformative power of faith. Listeners are encouraged to reexamine their perception of religion and recognize the value of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
And I look at it because at that point, at that point in time,
I'm coming here to get sober.
I'm saved. That's what I'm thinking. Like, what are you gonna teach me?
But it was so much more than that because there's such a big difference between
walking in the steps of religion and having a relationship with the Living God. Amen.

(00:22):
Let's be honest about recovery. The rewards, the challenges.
Let's talk about our failures.
We are flawed people after all.
Let's challenge the stigmas that weigh us down. Because while most of us are
looked at, few of us are seen.
Music.
Let's talk about addiction and how Christ overcomes our weaknesses.

(00:43):
Because we are loved. Because we are loved.
Because we are loved. Because we are loved.
Hey, my name is Jennifer, and this is my story. My experiences with drugs,

(01:06):
alcohol, and sinful relationships began in my early teenage years and carried on into adulthood.
And in 2014 began a six-year period of almost daily methamphetamine and alcohol use.
This went on until about June of 2020, when I finally began to get to the end
of myself. I made a decision to go to the Home of Grace in Gautier, Mississippi.

(01:27):
While I was there, I had an encounter with the living God, and my life has not
been the same. While it hasn't been perfect, it has not been the same.
Hey there and welcome back to the Jesus Loves Addicts podcast.
My name is Katherine and this is Paul.
Today we have the privilege of interviewing Jennifer Nettles.

(01:48):
Thank you so much for coming. Thanks for having me.
All right. So you just want to jump in and tell us your story and Paul and I'll
ask questions and just get to know how you got here. Okay. Sounds good.
Well, I guess I'll start by telling you from the very beginning,
I grew up in a family that was divorced.
My mom and dad divorced when I was pretty young And so she lived in North Texas,

(02:11):
and he was from Louisiana.
So there was a lot of back and forth that went on through my elementary years.
My mom also had schizophrenia, and so that was an element to my childhood that
was tough to deal with. I remember being sad a lot of the times.
My dad worked a lot, but I did get to spend a lot of time with his parents growing

(02:31):
up. We lived with them, as a matter of fact, most of the time.
And so she worked hard. She was a nurse and my grandfather was retired.
They took us to church, you know, here and there pretty regularly, actually.
And we had dinner as a family every night at the dinner table.
So it was pretty normal, pretty loving and regular childhood.
But like I said, my dad was on the road a lot. He worked a lot.

(02:52):
So missed out on some of that. And I think I began to really kind of act out
in relationships at a pretty young age, early middle school,
you know, just kind of attention-seeking behavior with guys and just kind of
trying to fill that void pretty early in life. Yeah.
I wound up drinking alcohol for the first time when I was around 12 or 13 years old.

(03:16):
And I remember, you know, immediately enjoying the way that made me feel.
And so I guess around the time that I turned 15, I tried to go live with my mom in North Texas.
And so I actually made that shift up there and started to go to school.
And that was around the time that I tried marijuana for the first time and didn't

(03:38):
like that. There was a pretty bad experience with that.
It would lower my blood pressure and cause me to pass out.
And so that was kind of traumatic, actually. But it wasn't much longer that
that kind of escalated to I was trying cocaine and that sort of thing.
I was 16 years old. 16 years old. A lot of unsupervision.
Even when I was living with my dad before I made that move to my mom's,

(04:00):
spent a lot of time at friends' houses. Not much supervision.
You know, it's just the way it turned out. Not a lot of supervision except for
when I was at my grandmother's house.
So I wound up getting pregnant for the first time pretty young in a relationship with a guy.
And my parents, I don't want to say they made the decision for me,
but it was kind of an understood thing, like you're going to have an abortion.

(04:22):
And so I had an abortion at a really young age.
But it wasn't but about two years later, I was in another relationship after
that and wound up getting pregnant again.
I was 17 at the time, and I decided to keep that child. And that was my first
child, my daughter, Samantha.
Stayed in a relationship with her dad for a little while, but it was pretty toxic.

(04:45):
You know, most of the relationships that I entered, obviously,
you know, I was not taught to do things God's way. I wasn't taught...
To wait on his timing and all those things. So I was entering these relationships,
under the wrong pretenses.
And of course, they weren't, they weren't working out, you know.
So moved on from that relationship.
A couple years later, got into another one. I was working at a bar and,

(05:07):
and trying to be a mom, you know, and kind of live in two different lifestyles
and wound up in another relationship and got pregnant again.
After my second pregnancy, or that I I actually gave birth to and had my son,
I had postpartum depression pretty bad.
And instead of going to the doctor and trying to get some kind of,
you know, medication or talk to them about some of the things that I was feeling,

(05:30):
a person came by the house one day while my husband was at work and was like,
he saw me crying and kind of asked me what was wrong.
And I was like, you know, just can't stop crying, can't stop crying. I'm sad.
I was like, well, I got something that'll take care of that.
And so that was the first time that I had tried meth before,
but this was crystal meth, and it was a little bit different.

(05:50):
And just, you know, with what was going on in my life at that time,
I think it was just a perfect, you know, recipe for disaster.
And so that started the first really serious bout with addiction.
And so I want to say it was about two, two and a half years that I lived in
a pretty serious addiction, almost lost my children, lost my marriage.

(06:13):
Of Of course, he started using as well, and we kind of went down our own separate paths.
I moved from, I had to leave my children there for a little while,
but I moved from Texas to Louisiana.
My dad came and picked me up and kind of got me out of that environment.
And at that time in my life, it worked to get me off of hard drugs,
but it didn't take long that even in Louisiana, after moving away from that,

(06:35):
I was right back in the clubs.
That was a little bit of a different, you know, in Texas, it was more of a country.
More of a country atmosphere. It wasn't a lot of clubbing or anything like that.
It was more like people just getting high in houses, you know,
coloring, doing, you know, silly things.
And, but in, in Louisiana, it was more clubbing and I got used to,

(06:56):
to going and dancing and it was like kind of a higher, faster pace and everything.
And so even though I wasn't doing, you know, methamphetamines anymore,
I was still drinking and, you know, partying and living that kind of a lifestyle.
And so I would leave my, when I finally got my kids and I got permission to
bring them back down with me, they would stay at babysitters a lot while I would go out.

(07:18):
But I met my youngest son's father at a club on, I want to say it was Christmas Eve.
And so I'm in another relationship that's, you know, obviously not ordained by God at this point.
But we end up, I ended up getting pregnant about four years into that.
And of course, we quit everything. We actually made it to a point where we quit

(07:41):
everything. We kind of cut people off.
And I started going to church and was interested in, you know,
I was feeling drawn to all of that, you know, and trying to figure out where that fit into my life.
And so we made, we both made a profession of faith and got baptized and started
doing, you know, the whole church thing. But I don't think there was ever really a point where...

(08:05):
I was doing all of the religious activities, but I wasn't really building a
relationship with the Lord.
And about a year into that, he got involved in Celebrate Recovery,
and I kind of got involved in that.
And I was still drinking alcohol and participating in that.
And so kind of trying to do what that was all about, but still,

(08:26):
you know, doing this other stuff.
And in about 2010 or so,
he took a job working for his stepbrother in Baton Rouge and working for,
it was right around the time that the synthetic marijuana came out.
And he just, I guess, thought it was a good idea, a good opportunity to go to

(08:48):
work for his stepbrother.
And they were basically manufacturing this stuff. And so even though it was
legal, it was still that lifestyle, you know, being around people that were
addicted to drugs and substances.
And he took a trip to Las Vegas and some things happened and brought unfaithfulness into the marriage.
And I was praying really hard, like, you know, I just wanted my family back.

(09:10):
I want to just go back and let's try to do what we were doing before.
And I prayed for that. And of course, he came back. And by that time,
you know, bitterness started kicking in and all of these things.
And so then I actually became unfaithful and he was trying to work on the marriage
and I was, you know, doing all these other things.
And I wasn't unfaithful just once, but it was like a lifestyle.

(09:31):
It became a lifestyle and drinking heavy and all these things.
And so we ended up getting a divorce in around 2014.
And that actually, that kind of began a six-year period of almost daily use.
And it happened gradually.
Like we got divorced and I started going to the clubs again.

(09:52):
And during that time that we were together and I was sober and everything,
it was about nine years that went by.
But even like retail therapy, I was stuffing, like I was buying things that I couldn't afford.
I was driving a new car every year. It was like addiction in full swing.
It just wasn't chemicals.
But so I ended up back in the club, start drinking heavy again,

(10:13):
and then start doing cocaine again a little bit here and there,
get into a relationship with a guy that was actually selling drugs.
And just like, no big deal. I'm just trying to work full time and take care
of my kids and be a functioning addict and do all these things.
And it wasn't long before I started using meth again. And it had been nine years

(10:34):
since I had done anything like that. And I,
It went from, you know, just a weekend thing to almost daily for about six years.
And pretty quickly. Pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah, pretty quickly.
I mean, I was making excuses for it in denial about it.
I didn't really spend a whole lot of money on it, but it was more like just
the things that it was doing to my mind because it went from the partying aspect

(10:58):
of it to like living in fear,
conspiracies, you know, that whole downward spiral came on pretty quick.
And, you know, I wasn't, and then it was like I wasn't going to the club anymore.
I was really just going and picking it up and then getting high and staying
in the house and being afraid to go in public and not taking care of my responsibilities.

(11:20):
And so slowly, slowly but surely, I would, you know, I lost my job and began
to not be able to function.
I would have periods of psychosis that were pretty heavy, you know.
At one point, I had lost my house and my job, and I remember being at my dad's house.

(11:41):
I was scared, and he came and picked me up, and actually, I might have been living there.
I can't really remember, but I remember going into basically a revelation of
hell for three days, and I sat.
It started at around midnight every night and would happen until about 3 o'clock,
And I remember sitting in the floor, just uttering words that didn't make any sense.

(12:07):
And I remember feeling just this horrible sense of divine abandonment.
Like I could not feel God's presence.
I was scared to death. I just knew that any minute, like Satan himself was going to hunt me down.
Like I literally was in hell. for, you know, I kept feeling,
and the biggest thing was I kept feeling the weight of everything that I didn't

(12:32):
do that I should have and everything that I did do that I shouldn't have.
It was like all of this perfect condemnation.
Yeah.
And can I pause you there for a second? Because that word is so powerful, condemnation, right?
So I want to just, would you say, because there's a lot of similarities here in this story, right?
When you just worded it that way, I felt this kind of, you know,

(12:54):
things that I should have done that I didn't, things that I... Yes.
Sounds very much like Paul in Romans, right? That which I know to do, I'm not.
So when you talk about condemnation, did it feel like that was coming from God
or do you recognize that as kind of self-condemnation or, you know... It was beyond that.
It was an otherworldly, it was an, it was...

(13:15):
An otherworldly feeling of divine abandonment.
It was like I was no longer in His presence, could no longer feel His presence.
It was literally like experiencing what it would be like if I was in hell.
And so condemnation, when I say that, it wasn't like the heavyweight of conviction
that we feel from God to move us into restoration.

(13:36):
It wasn't like that. And it also wasn't self-condemnation because this was,
was it was like he was letting me experience what that was going to be like.
And I look back on that and we'll get to this in a minute.
And basically my experience that happened later on, I've gone back and forth
on, you know, whether or not I was actually saved at that time.

(13:57):
You know, why did I, why was that happening? Why did that happen?
Was it just psychosis? I don't believe it was just psychosis.
You know, there's a lot of things that people will just talk up to like mental
breakdown down or psychosis in addiction that is really, you know, it's spiritual.
And I do believe that methamphetamines opens a portal to hell.

(14:17):
I mean, to be quite honest with you, I mean, just the things that people experience
now, are the drugs causing it? Absolutely.
You know, that contributes to it. But I think that there's a level of spiritual.
Sure. And interestingly enough, drug use is equated to witchcraft in the Bible, right?
Absolutely. And so you're bringing up some interesting things and I

(14:40):
do want to hear your story but I think the way
you worded that I just really want to snapshot that because I love that
he said it felt like divine abandonment mm-hmm and of course we can do things
that distance us from God right but he doesn't really abandon us but but there
but hell is the absence of his presence right so I just I love the way you term

(15:01):
that divine abandonment I think that even speaks louder than.
Maybe the word condemnation in my head, right? Because He doesn't condemn us. We tend to...
And ultimately, He doesn't send us to hell either. Right. Yeah.
He gives us a pathway off. We just don't take the exit. Absolutely.
So yeah, wonderful stuff. Thank you. And I just wanted to pause on that because

(15:22):
that's such a powerful piece, I think. And I know there's more coming.
Yeah. And so interestingly enough, that was not enough to keep me from using again.
I mean, I continued to use. there were times
that there were times that I
could hold a job and stay sober for about three weeks
and then I would end up using you know and

(15:42):
it would just be like this big binge episode I would just end
up you know it was like this force that would just pull me back and
you know or or sometimes I would just be afraid of being alone and I would go
somewhere like a club I was even going to strip clubs at one point just to not
be alone I was afraid it was like this this fear that I was constantly feeling

(16:04):
like something bad was going to happen, something bad was going to happen to my family.
Just coming up with these scenarios
that were, you know, just worst case scenarios, you know, constantly.
Even hearing you, that is terrifying. Yeah. And it was like this constant fight
or flight that I was living like that, you know, constantly.
And so that went on really the back and forth.

(16:26):
And I was doing all the things like Like there was a time that I was trying
to do, I was in counseling.
I was going, trying to go back to Celebrate Recovery. I was trying to do all
of the things that I knew to do, but I was trying to do them in my strength.
And so none of it would last. None of it was working.
And then, of course, I would go three weeks and stay sober and then go right back to it.

(16:50):
And I want to say would relapse, but really it wasn't a relapse because I wasn't
sober long enough for it. I was just still in active addiction.
And during that time, I had been offered an opportunity to go to the home of grace.
And I almost went at one point in 2017, but got afraid to go.
And I was like, I can do this on my own. I can do it on my own.

(17:11):
I can do it on my own. So I didn't go. But fast forward.
Wait, before you turn that page. Yeah, sure. Because you're bringing up,
again, there's some great concepts here.
So you said, I don't even really feel like it was relapsing because the behaviors were there.
And in some ways, I heard you saying that, too, even after the nine year,
quote unquote, sobriety, we almost might not call that a relapse because of what you said.

(17:37):
And I thought it was such a great insight that while there was no drugs and
alcohol in those nine years, all of the addictive behaviors were still there.
They were coming out in the addictive shopping.
They were coming out in relationship addiction, which I hear really woven into
your story. So really, the addiction itself, the pattern was there all along. Would that be accurate?

(17:57):
Absolutely. You just weren't using substances. Correct.
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(19:50):
When I said pretty quickly on how badly, how quick it picks right back up, we hear that a lot.
You know, well, when you abstain from substances when you're not using,
you will pick back up where you left off.
And it will go spiraling a lot faster.
Yeah. Yeah, that first addiction period that I had, you know,

(20:11):
that first three years whenever my son was born, it looked totally different than this next time.
It was much more spiritual this last time before I went to rehab.
And it was much more severe, really.
The effects of it were severe. And I wound up losing everything twice,

(20:31):
cars, everything, basically.
And what was happening in the physical was happening in the spiritual.
I even had to file bankruptcy.
And I look back on that, and it's like I was physically bankrupt and I was spiritually
bankrupt at the same time. And so at that point, I had pretty much burned every bridge.

(20:52):
Nothing was working that I was trying to do.
And I remember reaching out. I was like, I had one really bad use.
Actually, let me back up. My mom, my mom who had schizophrenia passed away.
And it was really hard on me.
And, you know, because we weren't... We didn't have a great relationship because

(21:17):
of her illness. It was so...
I don't want to say dramatic, but it was so taxing on everybody.
It was really, really hard. She was hospitalized, multiple suicide attempts,
really, really hard on the family.
And at one point in my life, I had to make a decision about whether or not to,
you know, try to help her and bring her into my family and bring what I went

(21:38):
through as a child around my own children, you know, so I carried that weight and that guilt.
But when I got the call that she passed away, I wound up using and I did not go to her funeral.
And so that caused a lot of pain and
a lot of problems with that side of
my family and a lot of more guilt you know for me for
not doing that and I was

(22:00):
like I've got to do something I've got to do something and so I reached out
to my church and I asked them you know if they would still consider sending
me to rehab and they said yes you know figure out where you want to go and I
did a little bit of research I was like you know I still want to go to the home
of grace there was a couple of other options. And I was like,
I still want to go to the home of grace.
And so I made contact, but they were shut down for COVID.

(22:22):
This was in 2020 by that time. It was around April.
And they were like, we'll shut down. We'll let you know as soon.
But they let me do some video sessions with one of the counselors. It was Lynn.
And so I started doing a couple of video sessions with her and that was helping.
But like I said, I never could get past that three weeks.

(22:44):
Like it never could make it over a month. And then I would go use again.
Well, I went and I used and it was so bad, like the psychosis and just the spiritual,
the demonic things that I was experiencing was so heavy and so scary that I
finally was just like, I'm going.

(23:05):
So I called her and I remember, you know, and I was like, so I made plans to go.
And I remember sitting on the couch with my dad because he didn't know at this
point. He thought that I was on the road to recovery.
Everything's fine, you know. And I was like, I'm going to go to rehab.
And he kind of got upset. He was like, you just can't do it on your own,
can you? And I'm like, no, I can't.

(23:27):
So, you know, in his mind, he was seeing it, you know, from human perspective
and that, you know, he just couldn't understand.
And I think that's common. You know, a lot of people look at addiction and,
well, first of all, They don't realize that they probably have addiction,
too. It just looks different.
That's right. But especially with chemicals, people that aren't in it, they don't understand.

(23:47):
Or if they don't have experiences with it, they don't understand it.
They look at it as a greater sin.
They look at it as, you know, something that you should just be able to stop in your own power.
Moral failure. Yeah, moral failure. And it's like, but wait,
look at all this. And this is the same thing.
Well, I think people, too, we're a strong-willed bunch, right?

(24:07):
And so we feel weak if we can't will ourselves into a different place.
And then I'm assuming, you know.
Your father is from an older generation, and that's even probably a more prevalent feeling, right?
I know my dad was a very strong-willed person, right? And so it does get perceived
as weakness when you have to reach out.

(24:30):
But we know now that it's really a great strength. Yeah, yeah.
And actually, in his defense, you know, I mean, he had done a lot for me.
He had, you know, picked up and, you know, sacrificed a lot to help me out of
situations and to get me, He, you know, he was doing what he thought was the right thing to do.
And in so many cases where if it wouldn't have been for him,
you know, I wouldn't have even been alive.

(24:52):
So I thank God for that every day. But so I made the decision to come.
And for once, I actually remember, I remember hearing a little whisper that
told me, because I got off the phone with Lynn and I was like,
yeah, I'm not going to come. I've got it all under control.
And then I got off the phone and I remember hearing, it was like the loudest
whisper I had ever heard. and it was like, you're going to the home of grace.

(25:16):
And I was like, ever, you know, like, whatever, like, is that,
what is that that I'm hearing?
You know, but it was so loud. It was like the loudest whisper I'd ever heard.
You're going to the home of grace.
And sure enough, that's where I ended up going.
And so I remember pulling onto the property and first of all,
we were on the way over there and I was like, where are we going?
You know, because it just doesn't look like it's, you're fixing to be at a rehab, but pull up.

(25:41):
And I I remember feeling a peace that I had never felt before. And it was like this.
You could breathe. I could breathe. Like I knew that everything was going to be okay.
And after being in fear and terror for so long.
What are you feeling right now? Well, so much because we're going to talk about that.

(26:03):
But, you know, like the whole everything that happened yesterday and being able
to go there again last night and just for this.
And there's such a big difference between walking in the steps of religion and
having a relationship with the living God.
Right? And I look at it because at that point in time, I'm coming here to get sober.

(26:27):
I just want to get sober. Yeah. I'm saved is what I'm thinking.
Like, what are you going to teach me? Like, I just want to get sober.
But it was so much more than that because I literally do not think that had
it not been for coming to the home of grace, nothing else would have happened
and I would still be stuck in religion.

(26:47):
And that to me and everything that I've been through is the bigger victory.
Because you can go to a rehab, you can get sober on your own, you can get dried out.
And still live life and completely miss Jesus. And that's even worse.

(27:08):
So, but... I think that some of us, when we say, you know, I just wanted to go and get sober.
Yeah. I don't think you had any idea of the actual freedom.
No. That you would find. We want the pain to stop.
We want the consequences to stop. We want to get sober because that's going
to fix it. But it is so much more. Yeah. And you can see that all over you. Yeah.
It's like, wow. Wow. A whole nother world opened up to me.

(27:31):
And so it wasn't like, it took me, it took me about 30 days to really get all the chemicals.
And of course I was on medications too, that I had to get off of in order to
come, you know, because they, you can't be on any medications.
And so I was getting completely natural.
Yeah. So it took me about 30 days to really adjust to the environment.

(27:52):
And, and I'm going to read this verse to y'all or this little section of scripture.
And you know, being in the Word, and it started to come alive for the first time.
And I remember that He spoke to me through Hosea first, and it says,
For this reason I will fence her in with thorn bushes.
I will block her path with a wall, to make her lose her way.

(28:16):
When she runs after her lovers, she won't be able to catch them.
She will search for them, but not find them. She will think,
I might as well return to my husband, for I was better off for him than I am
now. And then it says, later on it says.

(28:58):
And you will never mention them again. And I knew when I read this that he was going to deliver me.
On that day, I will make a covenant with all the wild animals and the birds
of the sky and the animals that scurry along the ground so they will not harm you.
I will remove all the weapons of war from the land, all swords and bows,
so you can live unafraid.

(29:19):
In peace and safety, I will make you my wife forever, showing you righteousness
and justice, unfailing love and compassion.
I will be faithful to you and make you mine, and you will finally know me as the Lord.
Wow. Kind of written right for you, right? That's amazing.
Yeah. And everything just kind

(29:39):
of, everything just, that's when I really began to see His sovereignty.
Yeah. And He became alive to me. It was more than, it's like Brother Houston
says, he says, everything that everyone else tells you is hearsay evidence until
you go through it and you know it yourself. Right.
And that's when it became living and active to me. And so I began to witness

(30:02):
his sovereignty and witness.
He just, he became real to me. Was this the moment, because you mentioned it
already, and I want to make sure people understand it, because it was an amazing
story for me to hear this morning.
Was that the moment in that room? Because if so, I want to back. Okay, well then.
We're almost there. I will simply say Jennifer will explain then,

(30:23):
because I know she just said referenced last night. And so that will all make
sense here in a few minutes.
And it was really amazing for me to hear. So I'm sorry, go ahead.
Yeah. And so that's around when it kind of started to happen.
And it was a progression.
And so he was making himself known to me. He was coming alive to me.
And then there were some things going on, a little bit of drama on the campus

(30:45):
and something that was some gossip.
And for the first time. Drama at rehab? Yeah. I was going to say that in a laugh. out.
But we had, we had been trying to hold each other accountable to this kind of stuff.
And there was, you know, some, someone that wasn't falling in line with us trying to hold each other.
Anyway, it was gossip. And I just began to get really convicted. Yeah.

(31:07):
I began to get really convicted during the day. And then there was a point in
time, I go back to my room and, and all of a sudden, um,
it was like I could just feel the weight of the glory of the Lord.
And I became aware of His holiness. And I call it my Isaiah 6 encounter because,
like, if you read Isaiah 6, he
says, he says, it was the year King Uzziah died, and then I saw the Lord.

(31:31):
He was sitting on a lofty throne, and the train of His robe filled the temple.
Attending Him were mighty seraphim, each having six wings.
With two wings, they covered their faces, and with two, they covered their feet.
And with two, they flew. They were calling out to each other,
They're holy, holy, holy is the Lord of heaven's army.
The whole earth is filled with his glory.
And then he says, then I said, it's all over. I'm doomed for I'm a sinful man.

(31:55):
And like, that's how I felt. Like all of a sudden it was like he removed the veil.
And I could see my sinfulness. I could see my sinful nature.
I could see, and it was not about the addiction anymore.
It was about the lust, the pride, the vanity, and the idolatry, the rebellion.
Like, He let me see it all. And it was so heavy.

(32:17):
So kind of like when Peter saw Him and he was like, depart, you know,
get away from me because I'm a sinful man.
It's like you just become, I became aware of my total depravity and need of
a Savior for the first time in my life.
And like, when I made my profession of faith, you know, all those years ago,
I had an emotional encounter.

(32:38):
I'm not going to discount that. But it was more of an environmental...
I don't want to say man-made, but it was nothing like what I was experiencing
here. It was something so, so different.
And it was a completely supernatural, and I knew it was the Lord.
I knew it was the Lord. And so that was the first time that I felt godly sorrow

(33:00):
for my sins and uncontrollably started weeping, groaning even.
And it was literally, I look back on that, it was literally like Jennifer was dying.
I died that day and became a new person.
And I said, save me. Please don't leave me like this. I need you. Save me.

(33:23):
Yes. And I screamed and I cried. People probably thought I was going nuts.
And I got up and I went and I got in the bathtub and I dunked myself.
And I haven't been the same since.
So not only did you die that day, you were reborn that day. I was reborn that
day. What an amazing story. Yeah.
Because you obviously have a passion about this, and so do I.

(33:46):
Can you talk a little bit more about the difference? Because I think a lot of
people associate Jesus with religion.
Can you talk a little bit more about
that difference between religion and relationship as it pertained to you?
Yeah. I mean, I think, and I think the closer you walk with him and the more
you fall in love with him, because that's what it is. It's a surrender of your heart.

(34:08):
He wants our heart. He doesn't want our sacrifices. He doesn't want our deeds.
And there's such a fine line between
what is tradition and the things that we're taught to do to attain.
Basically, it's kind of masked, right?
It's like, well, it's very delicate because it's like these things will happen
if you're saved and you have a relationship.

(34:29):
Naturally, they will occur, but you don't do them to obtain salvation.
And so in the church, there's a lot of, if you're not doing this,
then you're probably not saved or, you know, you don't have enough faith or,
you know, being saved looks like this. It doesn't necessarily look like that.
And that's not Jesus, right?

(34:51):
I don't know. And one thing that I'm very passionate about too is,
you know, it's very clear in the Bible that the Spirit gives witness with our
spirit when we are saved and confirms that we're children of God.
And so I'm very sensitive about people that try to guarantee salvation for people.
I think that you can give people false assurance.

(35:12):
And I think that one thing that Brother Houston did a great job of is encouraging
people to examine whether or not you're in the faith.
Because it's not, for me, it wasn't that I wasn't saved because I was sinning.
It was I wasn't saved because I didn't have saving faith. Mm-hmm.
I knew what people told me about Jesus. And I even saw a meme the other day,

(35:37):
and it said that people can get caught up in talking about Jesus instead of talking to Jesus.
And so there's a lot of Christians getting together and talking about Jesus,
but they don't actually really walk with Jesus themselves.
And there's such a big difference, right? And I think that, you know,
it's like in Hosea that I read just a few minutes ago, and he talks about,

(35:59):
I will wipe the many names of Baal from your lips.
Baal is like, you know, idols.
It's the idols in our life. And that can look like so many different things.
But when he clears that temple of our heart, when he clears that temple,
he says he comes in and he clears it with whips.
He flips those tables and he gets rid of it, right?

(36:22):
But then he can consume your heart. and you just got to fall in love with him.
And I think that's why I get so passionate about it because,
and people get caught up in steps or, you know, doing these steps and,
or when steps are important,
you know, that's a tool in our recovery. It's a tool.

(36:45):
But the main thing has got to be the main thing. It's got to be Jesus.
And because he is the, he is the anchor.
He is the one that it's kind of like that scripture where he says that he fulfills
the law and the prophets, like all of these things fall into place when we make him the main thing.
And getting in the word, this has got to be the best friend because and like

(37:08):
even with my thoughts and all that fear and stuff, it didn't line up with scripture.
Right. Right. Like I knew I believed about Jesus. Right.
But I didn't know what Jesus said about all these things and all the promises
that are contained in God's word and the things that we don't have to be afraid of.
Like we give so much credit to the enemy and we worry so much about the enemy's

(37:30):
power and the enemy does have power, but he doesn't have authority.
He has no authority except for what we give him.
And, you know, learning all those things and literally just falling in love
with him, falling in love with his word. and it just takes care of everything else.

(37:50):
Before we go any further, let's take a minute to address the man or the woman
listening to today's episode and wishing for a better life.
Or maybe addiction has completely overtaken a family member or a friend.
You are not alone. As you may know, the Jesus Loves Addicts podcast is produced
by the Home of Grace, a Christ-centered addiction recovery program in South
Mississippi with over 60 years of experience.

(38:12):
The Home of Grace has residential programs ranging from 30 days to 12 months.
With two separate campuses for men and women, they are fully staffed with caring
individuals who want nothing more than to guide you to a life of recovery.
Services include individual and group counseling, marriage and family counseling,
classes, workshops, GED, and workforce training, all grounded in biblical principles.

(38:34):
And because of donations from the community, the cost of the program is incredibly affordable.
Thousands of alumni from all across the country can tell you there is no other
program in the world quite like the Home of Grace.
If you want to start a new path to recovery, don't wait. Speak with their admissions specialist today.
Visit homeofgrace.org or call 833-55-GRACE to talk with someone.

(38:56):
That's 833-55-GRACE. Call the Home of Grace today.
You know, it's interesting because you can't change your way to a relationship with Jesus.
But if you allow Jesus to change you, you will change your way.
Absolutely. So it's that power from within.

(39:18):
And what's interesting is as you were talking, I thought there's a little bit of a link here, right?
Because the same is true for earthly relationships. relationships,
oftentimes we try to change our way into a healthy relationship when really
what we should be looking for is another healthy person to be in healthy relationship with, right?
So all of this kind of works to try and create a perfect package when really,

(39:40):
I don't know, there's something reversed about that.
It's the upside down kingdom. Yeah.
Yeah. Really neat. Wow. Well, go on. Okay.
So I get out of rehab and we got hit by Hurricane Laura.
So that happened actually while I was at rehab. And then as soon as my dad picked

(40:01):
me up and I got out, go back and we have no power.
Generators, all you can hear is generators throughout the whole town.
And so I decided to go up to my daughter's house in Dallas and spend about a week.
So I got to go spend a week with her up there. And while I was there,
I went to a Goodwill store and I found this book called Authentic Beauty by Eric and Leslie Lutie.

(40:22):
And I just kind of began to really start reading about what it looks like to walk in purity.
And that's kind of when he started to work on purity.
That part of my life. And I'll get into that more here in just a minute.
But right before I had gone to rehab, somebody from my past had made contact

(40:43):
with me, and we developed a friendship.
And actually, he wrote me while I was in rehab.
And there were some good things to that, except for the enemy was all up in that.
And I was not, I became almost obsessed with, oh, this is going to be my godly

(41:04):
relationship that I'm finally going to get to have because, you know,
he was a believer too and we were studying the Lord together.
But there were some other elements to that relationship that were not, they were not healthy.
They were not of God, but I couldn't see them. You know, I couldn't see them yet at that point.
So I'm in this relationship with him and we're not seeing each other physically.
Like he lives in Texas, actually in prison.

(41:25):
And so I'm convincing myself that this is like from God and we're having this
phone relationship and it's somebody I knew from my past. So I knew him.
It wasn't like a stranger.
I was making all the excuses as to why. But anyway, I get in a relationship
and I convinced myself that just because we're not having, you know,
a sexual relationship, that it's okay to be in this relationship.
And I ignored, you know, the advice of not getting in a relationship for a year.

(41:49):
So I'm starting to study purity in relationships, but also trying to be in this relationship.
And the point comes when he decides that he doesn't want to be in it anymore.
And And I kind of caught myself struggling with my thoughts again.
And that's one of the biggest things that I've still continued to struggle with.
I think that there's a lot of pressure when it comes to mental health,

(42:14):
especially within Christianity.
You know, there's a lot of people that will convince you that you don't need
medication or that medication is—people get afraid of pharmaceuticals.
You know, they'll hype up big pharma. And there's a lot of truth in that.
But God still made medication, and He still uses medication to help people.
And so I was fighting being on medication and just this perfect storm of all of that.

(42:38):
And I actually fought it so much that I ended up having to go inpatient into
a mental facility for about three
weeks because I took a handful of Buspar because I wanted to sleep so bad.
I wanted to sleep. I wasn't able to sleep and just all these things.
Just to clarify, that was not a suicide attempt.

(42:58):
It was just I need rest. But they still took it that way. They still,
they still, I was not trying to end my life.
I was trying to take as many as I could to try to make myself sleepy and go to sleep.
But they still took it that way as a suicidal ideation.
And so I got checked into the hospital and fought being on medication and went
through that whole thing. But God was with me in that.

(43:20):
I look back on that and it was, it was definitely, He was with me the whole
time. And luckily and thankfully, they were able to find two medications that
worked for me almost perfectly on medication to this day.
And I still don't even feel medicated.
I mean, there's some side effects. Obviously, I eat more and have gained a little

(43:41):
bit of weight, but it's a small sacrifice for the mental health and the stability.
You know, because I was reading my word.
I was still trying to do the things that I had learned in rehab.
And I kept telling my dad, you know, I was like, I can do this.
Like, you know, it's, you know, Jesus can do this.
And he was like, he was like, if it could, if it could do it on its own,
then you'd be, you know, you'd be fine.

(44:02):
And so, but so after I... I'm sorry. I am glad that you brought up the mental
health and the illness. Yes.
I know that we hear a lot that, you know, don't take meds. That means you're
not trusting, that you're not walking in faith. Yeah, yeah.
And I don't personally believe that. It's always debatable, and I don't get

(44:23):
into the arguments, but my personal, if Scripture tells me that He didn't give
me a spirit of fear, but a power of love and a sound mind,
then at some point, my sound mind, if a doctor is telling me,
hey, this is what's going to work, and I've researched it, and I've sought wise
counsel, and that is what is going to improve my quality of life,

(44:44):
then I am for it.
You need to use your sound mind and decide what is best for you. Yes.
But I will add this piece because I agree. I think, you know,
there is a time for medication for sure and it is ordained.
But I do believe that, sadly, we are an over-medicated country.
And so the reason I pause to say this is because I think everybody in recovery,

(45:08):
And I tell everybody that comes through here, one of the things you need to
do to maintain that recovery is be your own best advocate when it comes to health care.
Because unfortunately, there is a training out there with many doctors where
they associate a symptom with a medication, and that's as far as it goes.
They don't necessarily associate a symptom with a behavior or a history or an

(45:33):
addiction. It's symptom medication.
So it's not that medication is bad. Medication can be a godsend, literally.
But we have to be vicious advocates for ourself and make sure we're doing all
the research because I do think there are a lot of people on medication that don't need to be.
Yeah. And then like yourself, there are some on that it's just a match made

(45:56):
in heaven, literally, right? Right. So.
So, yeah. So I appreciate that distinction, too. Yeah.
And for me, it was again, it goes back to his divine plan, his divine,
his sovereignty in everything.
And I think that whenever we come to him with a pure heart and clean hands and
we're trusting him with these decisions.

(46:16):
Right. And like even even down to the counseling, the counselor that I was with
at the Home of Grace and all of the things that he brought me through in that safe environment.
It. And even the room that I was in, actually, I had two roommates and one of
them literally was like my mom in her illness.
And the other one was like my mom before her illness. So it was like I was face

(46:37):
to face with two women that were bringing up all these emotions that I needed
to deal with in grieving my mom's death and her illness even.
So he orchestrates all of those things. And.
But being honest with our doctors about our symptoms instead of being manipulative
about because there was a point in time where I didn't want to be on an antipsychotic.

(47:01):
So I just need anxiety medicine or I just need Buspar.
And I'm telling the doctor I'm trying to be Mrs.
PhD over here. and instead of letting
them do their jobs and like we have to be honest about
the symptoms that we're having so that they can treat us
properly and not over medicate us or not give us something that's
not going to help us and then and then you have to

(47:22):
have the spiritual peace with it for sure and Jennifer let me let me ask you
this because I want to be sensitive to time and not speak for Catherine but
I think we're both good we get caught up in the stories too and then I could
just sit here and listen because I love the passion what are some key moments
for you where Where are these turnaround parts?
Because we really want to kind of dig into that a little bit.
And I know we're coming up on it. So as I mentioned, you know,

(47:46):
getting in that relationship and such.
So one of the biggest revelations aside from, you know, being able to take care
of my mental health and walk through that journey and having some victory over
my fear has been deciding to enroll in school.
But then also the revelation that he gave me about the relationships and that
actually being an addiction. And I think that for us women, you know,

(48:08):
we were created to be helper.
We were created with this desire in our heart for our Prince Charming or whatever.
And so it's making that shift to letting Him be our Prince Charming first, right?
And accepting His plan for our life and surrendering our will to that and saying,

(48:32):
you know, Jesus, Jesus, you are the prize. You are...
The reward. And I can be happy with that. I can be joyful with that.
I can be full of your spirit and I can accept whatever you send my way.
And I don't want anything that is not from you.
Like, I don't want to create something in the flesh, you know,

(48:53):
which is basically what I had done my whole life.
And so making that transition and really come into a place where I'm committed.
To, you know, praying for my next spouse, if that's what he brings me,
praying for that individual and saying, you know, I pray that he loves God more than he loves me.
I pray that he knows how to lead me spiritually, you know, and not even worried

(49:15):
about looks, not even worried about income, not even worried about these things
that just, you know, quite frankly, they don't matter.
You know, I see so many marriages that are, you know, doing fine materially,
but there's no spiritual substance.
The man is not leading the wife, the wife is leading the husband or,
or, you know, just major elements in God's design.

(49:36):
And it's not sin management, right? It's not saying don't have sex before marriage.
It's getting behind God's design and having a heart for what His heart is for.
You know, there's a reason why He designed it the way He did.
One man, one woman, wait till you're married and, you know, experience all my

(49:57):
blessings, Deuteronomy 28.
All of the things, like it's a covenant. It mirrors the covenant.
And once you can get behind all of that and say, you know, I don't want it unless
it comes from you. I don't want my will.
I want what you have for me or I don't want anything else. Everything that I've
done in my strength and in my timing and in my, you know, will has gotten me

(50:18):
nowhere. And I don't want anything else.
Well, and I think it's trusting that what he wants is what's best for us.
And if that's the case, then the way he's designed it must be best for me.
Am I going to believe that?
Yes. Or am I going to test that? Well, most of us test it. And unfortunately...
To our detriment. But, you know, it is an act of faith. It is stepping into

(50:41):
that trust. Okay, Lord, I trust that this is for my betterment. Yeah. Right.
So that's, yeah, I love it. Yeah. And I think too, you know,
admitting the unfair expectations, because a lot of what we'll do is we'll get
in these relationships that we're not ready for or that are not from him,
make excuses for him, and then put all this weight on this man,
this imperfect man, who can't fulfill all these obligations that we're,

(51:04):
you know, and even men with women,
So it's just, I don't know, that's been one of my biggest victories is coming
to terms with all of that.
And really just the restoration in my family, the restoration in relationships
and being able to, I've gone through two-step studies with Celebrate Recovery now.
And like I said, that's a great tool and helped me to dig deeper and kind of

(51:28):
do some inventory and kind of, I found that a lot of that step work,
I felt like he had brought me up to speed with before. I even started on the step work.
So Celebrate Recovery has been a tool for me in my recovery,
but it wasn't my aha moment, which it is for some people.
So I went through step studies and did that, and I actually serve in ministry in that capacity now.

(51:53):
Well, so Jennifer, and again, I'm sorry to lurch forward here,
but I know, again, wanting to be sensitive in time, tell this story because
I found it such a neat story.
So very briefly, we had a generator. We started to do this last night and a generator blew up on us.
And so we've come back this morning and we're doing it now.
But what's so interesting about this is how it ties into Jennifer's story.

(52:17):
Can you kind of just tie those ends together?
Yeah. So, of course, yesterday I'm thinking, oh, my goodness,
I'm going to have to drive back over here.
And and then so I get the opportunity to to go and spend the night on the women's
campus. And that was in itself was just a treat because it's always like like coming home. Yeah.
Whenever you go on to the property and just some immediately I'm thinking,

(52:39):
God, what's my assignment in this?
What what is the you know, the thing that you want me to do or that's that you
have for me in this situation?
Because I didn't pack anything. I didn't bring anything. I don't was my Bible.
And so I get there and they're making sure that I have everything that I need.
And they're like, well, you can just stay in the apartment. And I'm thinking, OK. okay.
So we start walking out there and I was like, are we going to number two?

(53:02):
And she was like, yeah, why?
And I said, this was my room. Like literally I got to stay in the same room
that I had my encounter with the Lord in last night. And it's all redone now.
It's, it was like, it was like he was showing me now everything's cleaned up
and put in order and swept and.

(53:23):
Well, and she actually, she texted me that last night, and I just,
I love that what you said.
He is so personal. He's so personal.
Yeah. He's so personal. I was like, just set up just for you. I see you.
The transformer, the power outage, that might have been a surprise for us. It was not for him.
Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't. And speaking of that, I mean, speaking of personal,

(53:47):
and like, I don't know if y'all noticed my hat, but it says Deuteronomy 3410.
3410, but it's talking about the apple of his eye.
And after I had this encounter, I went home and I just kind of,
I was so, not confused, but so...
Enthusiastic about what had happened and so engaged. And I wanted to find out
more and I wanted to study and I wanted to really, but I came across a video

(54:10):
of Catherine Kuhlman and she was talking about her experience with the Holy Spirit.
And she was saying that her favorite verse was, keep me as the apple of your
eye, hide me in the shadow of your wings.
And so I just began to kind of dig into that. And I was like, that's awesome.
And I learned about how God calls Jacob or Israel, the apple of His eye.
And so I had written that in my book, in my Bible.

(54:33):
And I went to a devotion one night, a worship night that one of my mentors was putting on.
And towards the end of the service, she said, I just want to say that I feel
like the Lord is wanting somebody here to know tonight that you are the apple of His eye.
I love that. And so I had this hat made, and it's just, He winks at me a lot.

(54:55):
But I want to just, I know that we are coming to an end, but a few things.
I want to thank you first for bringing up, Paul and I have touched on the relationship
addiction and, but not someone sitting and saying, hey, this was a problem for me.
Yeah. Throughout your whole story, and I have a similar one,

(55:16):
it's relationship, well, this didn't work, relationship, and that that is an addiction in itself.
But you taking the time and devoting that time to him. to surrendering that to Him.
I don't feel that, and this, correct me if y'all feel differently,
but I don't feel you would be where you are in your walk if you hadn't put Him

(55:38):
first, all the way first, and surrendered that and said, I'm going to let you choose.
We don't choose so well. I'm going to let you choose this time.
And I just want to thank you. I don't think it's something that we talk about nearly enough.
And I don't think it's just, I primarily work with women, but I don't think
it's just that. It's that year recommendation.

(55:58):
I personally waited three. I knew that my will got me in trouble, as you seem to have.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's not just women. I mean, relationship is a big issue. It might,
history as well. I've talked briefly about that, but I do want to say one thing.
I love what you just said.
You were heading over to the campus and you were saying, what is my purpose in this?

(56:20):
And so I can't help but hear that from a codependent side, my guess is what
you're thinking is, what mission do you have me to perform here?
When in reality, your purpose there was to receive a reminder from him.
It was for you. It wasn't about you going there to give. It was about you going
there to receive a reminder of his love and his personal relationship with you.

(56:44):
I just love that. Right. Isn't that just like him to just spend that?
Yes. And, you know, one of the other things that I've struggled with is,
you know, being feeling so brand new and feeling like there is something that
he's calling me to. Right.
You can easily get wrapped up in what that is. Like, what are you calling me to?
What is this calling that you've placed on my life when really we're called to sit at his feet?

(57:05):
We're called to be with him. We're called to be in love with Him first.
And so, yes, a nice reminder that, you know, sometimes He just wants to love on you.
Wow, Jennifer. Yeah, thank you so, so much. I never cease to be impressed with
people coming here and pouring it out the way that you have. Absolutely.

(57:27):
Yeah, just really, to me, one of the things that resonates and speaks so loudly
in your story, And I really want to just impart it to anybody who may be listening
is truly that difference between religion and relationship.
You may be caught up. I think there may even be an argument to be made for religious addiction, right?
But religion is politics, and Jesus was all about relationship.

(57:52):
And I'm only going to go that far, right? That's a big discussion. There's no 100% here.
But I would just simply say that if you've tasted religion and it left a bad
taste in your mouth, go deeper.
As she just said, he's so personal.
You missed the mark. Religion is not the bullseye.

(58:13):
Relationship is. And so I love that about your story, Jennifer.
Thank you so much for being here.
Again, grossly impressed with your bravery and vulnerability.
And I'd like to remind everybody out there, this is, as you see folks here,
we know there's lots of people out there with a story to tell.
And if you're one of them, if you have a testimony where Jesus has touched your

(58:35):
life, we invite you to go to Jesuslovesaddicts.com and let us know,
tell us a little bit about your story, and perhaps we'd even love to have you on.
And so as we grow this podcast, we're just eager to hear all that Jesus is doing out there.
So again, Jesuslovesaddicts.com, Let us know who you are. Let us know a little bit about your story.

(58:56):
If you need questions that we might be able to give our two cents on,
by the way, leave those there too. So thanks so much and we'll see you next week.