March 16, 2025 • 42 mins
In the second episode of The Downfall of Married At First Sight Australia, I take a look at the show's "relationship experts" and how their role has changed over the years and the issues former exert Dr Trisha Stratford raised when she quit the show, before her death in 2023.
I put the questions regarding being "ethically, morally and professionally compromised" that Dr Trisha Stratford brought to light to John Aiken directly, and as he has since claimed I was "harassing and threatening" towards him, please listen to the full unedited exchange.
I strongly deny these accusations from John, and believe public figures like him should be held accountable and these questions should be getting asked of them.
If you're struggling or need confidential 24-hour support in Australia, call Lifeline on 13 11 14.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the second episode of the Downfall of Married
at First Sight Australia, an investigation by the Maths Funny
podcast hosted by me Joshua Fox. After we took a
deep dive into the origins of the show last week
and the methods that executive producer Tara McWilliams and her
merry team of like minded puppet masters go to in
(00:21):
order to ensure that Maths continues to generate tens of
millions of dollars a season. This week are we shining
a spotlight on the show's self proclaimed relationship experts, with
the current lineup consisting of John Aikin, Mel Shilling and
Alessandra Rampola.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Like, how do you call yourself experts and you say
that you're matching people because you know your own payper
It would work amazingly.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I think from the very beginning this was just two
people matched purely for car crash television.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
If you ask Channel nine. These three are the most
integral part of the experiment. Their combined backgrounds on the
studies across psychology, relationship counseling, human behavior, and clinical sexology
provide each of the couples that they carefully match together,
not just the tools to build solid foundations for their
new found relationships, but for those relationships to thrive as well.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Or that's what they're meant to do.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
Oh guys, the experts have nothing to do with matching
the people, nothing at all.
Speaker 6 (01:24):
They're paid actors.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
They speak at you.
Speaker 7 (01:26):
It's not a two way conversation, because you'll be like,
my husband yelled at me last night, and they respond
by going, uh, actually, we're out of time.
Speaker 8 (01:34):
We're not going to address that today.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Stay or leave. So it's like you're like, but he's
yelling at me, like help me.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
In the ten years that this show has been running now,
only six of the one hundred and seven couples they've
matched have actually stayed together.
Speaker 9 (01:49):
How about the experts?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
They haven't got rubbish.
Speaker 10 (01:52):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And is that because they're truly terrible at the job.
Speaker 11 (01:57):
They're there to even to a point to divide people
and split them up. It's fucking awful.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Or is it because they're being advised to purposely mismatch people?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
The maths experts masquerade as relationship warriors when their real
job is to manufacture drama to test the contestants' breaking points.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Just so they can clash and explode.
Speaker 9 (02:19):
I felt ethically, professionally, morally compromised. Now I have to
take responsibility for this as well.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And if that's true, is this something the experts have
happily agreed to or did they have no say in
the matter.
Speaker 9 (02:35):
I felt they were attempting to booky me. After that meeting,
I was completely out of the loop. I did not
know anything that was going on. They didn't want to
include me.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
With a success rate as small as theirs, in any
of a job, you'd be out the door. Yet despite that,
the three of them are still sat there calling themselves experts.
And I think that it's about time that we, the
viewers of this show, question what exactly are they experts of?
Because I'm yet to see any expertise in anything.
Speaker 12 (03:08):
You know, mel Alessandra Marsels. One of our roles as
experts is to hold a mirror up and show them
what they're doing wrong and how to put it right.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
And it's not always pretty.
Speaker 13 (03:17):
Sometimes when you hold that it's.
Speaker 12 (03:19):
Very ugly at times.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Allie Well John, mel Alessandra, perhaps it's now time I
hold that mirror up to you free and show you
what you're doing wrong.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Before we get to all that.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Though, since the first episode of this podcast series dropped,
I've seen the same comment repeated over and over and over,
people stating that they have no sympathy for anyone left
broken and push to the brink after finding themselves part
of this experiment as they chose to sign up to it,
which is something I've often questioned myself too. Why would
(03:55):
any person who is thinking rationally subject themselves to this
when so much stuff out there saying do not do it.
In an attempt to answer this, I put the question
to doctor Isabel Morley, who is quite possibly the best
person in the world to answer it. Not only is
doctor Isabel Morley a practicing clinical psychologist, she's also a
(04:16):
board member of the YUKAN Foundation, which stands for Unscripted
Cast Advocacy Network, an American based organization that's providing mental
health support and legal advice to past, present, and future
stars of reality television. Since the foundation was established by
a star of Netflix's Lovies Blind in twenty twenty three,
(04:37):
doctor Isabel Morley and her team have slowly been challenging
the law surrounding reality TV in America to provide the
people on these shows with basic human rights, and so
far they're successfully bringing changes. And when I asked doctor Morley,
why would anyone ever sign up to a show like
Married at First Sight, she responded by telling me this, I.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
Think that modern dating sucks. I think are sick of
swiping left and right and wasting time and not finding love.
And the idea of going on a show and having
somebody do that legwork for you and maybe pick out
your dream partner sounds very appealing. And the secondary gain
of maybe becoming famous or getting a following or launching
(05:18):
a career also sounds fantastic. And I think people don't
realize that a lot of the time people are approached
to be on these shows, they are recruiters are finding
them on their social media and their LinkedIn and asking
them to be a part of the interview process. So
a lot of people aren't actually volunteering themselves. They're being
pulled into the process without expecting to be and from
(05:39):
there they're told it will be a certain experience. These
producers are really good at telling you we'll take care
of you. We're going to find an amazing person to
match you with. You won't have to worry about dating
you'll get a good edit. Don't worry, You're going to
be the hero.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Of the show.
Speaker 7 (05:53):
And everyone is told that story, but not everybody ends
up being the hero of the season. But why wouldn't
you believe someone's saying don't worry, We'll take care of
you the whole time.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And that's exactly how Dean Well has found himself on
season five back in twenty eighteen, which he previously revealed
to the ABC, there.
Speaker 10 (06:10):
Were some casting people, a man and a woman walking
around the bar, hitting up men and asking them questions.
You know, I saw them. I thought, oh, what's going
on there. Then they came over to me and just said, Hey,
we're recruiting for this TV show, Married at First Sight.
Speaker 6 (06:28):
Could we have a little chat with you?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
And I was like, okayeah, no worries.
Speaker 10 (06:32):
They pulled me over to the side of the bar
and just said, look, this is the concept of the show.
You know you're going to marry a stranger. Can you
tell us a little bit about yourself and are you
looking for a relationship?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Are you single?
Speaker 10 (06:46):
And I was just like, yeah, I'm single, definitely looking
for a relationship, looking for the right partner.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Speaking to doctor Morley, I also wanted to ask her
if there's a level of naivety behind anyone's decision to
sign up to any reality show again, because there's so
much out there saying.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Do not do it.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
Oh absolutely, I think people also believe you know, I
will act true to myself. I won't get caught up
in whatever the demands of the show are. I won't
say anything I regret without realizing that the conditions they
put you in are incredibly stressful. It is a time
pressured situation, it is emotional, and you will undoubtedly say
(07:25):
things that you regret. So everyone has the best of
intentions and thinks that they won't be the one to
get dragged. But guess what, every season, everybody gets dragged.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
As much as that does make sense, I then asked
doctor Morley if she could put me in the mindset
of any potential participan in the day the show's contract
finally arrives at their door, and why anyone would so
willingly sign that given what's in those contracts. Yeah, these
one clause in it, and if I read this, I
would run a mile, And it says I understand my
(07:56):
actions and the actions of others displayed in an in
connection with the program may expose me to public ridicule, humiliation,
or condemnation. My actions may be seen as disparaging, defometry, embarrassing, shocking, surprising,
or of an otherwise unfavorable nature.
Speaker 7 (08:13):
The contracts in the US are exactly the same, the
same wording, the same warnings I would say of condemnation
and humiliation, And I think a lot of people read
it and think they have to put that in here.
You know, they're covering their legal bases, but maybe it
doesn't apply to me, And at least in the US,
I don't know Howard is. In Australia. People don't have
(08:35):
a lot of time with their contracts. They get it
and they get a certain number of hours to read
through and sign it, and there's pressure because the production
company is saying, listen, let us know because we have
fifteen other people who are dying to be on this show.
So if you're out, somebody else is in. They have
no chance to talk to a lawyer, they have no
negotiating power to ask for things to be removed from
(08:57):
the contract. So basically you've already stunk a lot of time.
I'm an energy and you've imagined yourself on this show.
You get a contract, it's got a clause like that,
But what are you going to do? You don't have
much opportunity to negotiate or to say no at that point.
But even then, what can you really say? Ask the
production company to take out a clause and they'll say
no and thank you very much for your time, We're
(09:17):
going to go with somebody else. So it puts all
the cast in a very difficult position. And again, I
think partly is who reads a contract that carefully, who
goes through a line by line. Nobody has a legal background.
They don't know what they're signing on to exactly, and
people are just they don't have a chance to be informed.
So they sign it and they're suddenly a part of
(09:38):
a show and they're part of the process.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's true. They are indeed a part of a process now.
And although it may have been a cumbination of being
soda dream blissful, naivety and a whole lot of pressure
and manipulation that got them there, these days, we do
have to also acknowledge that the potential of gaining fame,
of following on a platform to make a lot of
money is also a major incentive but long before appearing
(10:03):
on the show spawned any opportunities like that. The real
selling point, so many cast members have told me, convinced
them to sign on the dotted line was the relationship
experts and what they represented. That's certainly what made Dean
Wells say yes.
Speaker 10 (10:17):
The wording they used was we use a scientific method
to find the perfect partner for you, and I think
they even said we've got the perfect woman for you.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
And did they have the perfect woman waiting for Dean No,
not quite. To take things back to the very start
when Married at first first launch in Australia in twenty fifteen,
the entire premise of the show centered around the experts.
They were the stars of this show, which was made
clear from the very first minute of the very first episode.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
This basically will put the relationships on steroids.
Speaker 14 (10:52):
Three of Australia's top relationship experts are leading this radical experiment.
Speaker 9 (10:58):
Cam matchmaking produce a long lasting relationship.
Speaker 14 (11:03):
Using a mix of neuroscience and psychology. They'll try to
create four perfect matches.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
I think he's too strong a personality.
Speaker 9 (11:12):
Is she going to be resilient enough in this pressure cooker?
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I want to find someone. I want to have kids
one day, so why not do it this way?
Speaker 7 (11:21):
At least this guy.
Speaker 15 (11:22):
They did a criminal check. You know, that's good.
Speaker 7 (11:24):
That's a good start.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Their expertise gave the concept credibility, integrity, and it said
that hey, this isn't car Crush TV in the making,
but a genuine attempt to help strangers find love. When
you hear the show referred to as an experiment, initially,
they were the ones test in the hypothesis and were experimenting.
Speaker 9 (11:45):
Couple's pairing for romantic love is a recent innovation in
our evolutionary history.
Speaker 14 (11:51):
The first expert relationship psychologist John Aiken, puts couples under
the microscope.
Speaker 12 (11:58):
I've been doing this now for twenty years, dealing with
singles and couples day in, day out, teaching them what
they're doing wrong and then showing them how to put
it right.
Speaker 14 (12:06):
Through extensive psychological evaluations. He's created detailed personal profiles of
the potential matches. The second expert, neuros psychotherapist, doctor Tricia Stratford,
looks at how the brain reacts to love and attraction.
The final expert, psychologist Sabina Reid, wants to make sure
(12:27):
the recipe for a successful match is just right. The
idea behind these arranged marriages is that we're more mindful
of the ingredients that we're putting into the mix.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Over the years, the roles of the experts has somehow
gone from assisting the couples to antagonizing them.
Speaker 12 (12:45):
What do you think that you can do, Colins that
will bring her close and make her feel special?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
No, I'm sorry. I came to you for advice. What
should I do? Just think about it if you decided
to stay together. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 12 (13:03):
I'm not here to tell you what to do.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
You're not here to give me advice.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Over the years, expert John even now makes no secret
of the fact that the way he believes he can
help the couples is by calling them up.
Speaker 12 (13:15):
Certainly, the commitment ceremonies are where we really come out
hard at them. Okay, so tell us about the commitment ceremonies.
Speaker 14 (13:22):
How are you going to help some of these couples
to get back on track?
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Well?
Speaker 12 (13:26):
I tend to just come out and you know, tough love. Yeah,
call him out, call out the bad behavior.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
John has even previously admitted that former expert doctor Tricia
Stratford would have to tell him to rein it in
on SAT while they're filming.
Speaker 12 (13:41):
I have a lot of great memories with her. I mean,
she got so excited about anything to do with the
brain and love. And she brought into this experiment, the
pheromone test, where people would smell clothes, and she just
gets so excited about all of that. And you know,
she also wore this white lab coat, you know, which
(14:02):
was amazing. She made it look, you know, kind of fashionable.
She was great as well because she'd keep.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Me in check.
Speaker 12 (14:08):
You know, sometimes I'll be yelling at the participants and
she'd say, you know, John, don't get too preachy. Bring
it down a notch.
Speaker 16 (14:14):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 12 (14:15):
So she was always like, you say, that calm voice
of reason.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
But the issue there is John shouldn't need someone there
to keep him in check. If his role on the
show is to guide and advise, it should never reach
a point where he's told, hey, you're yelling at them
too much, because why is he yelling at all? This
isn't what you'd expect of a clinical psychologist, is it, Which,
as we all know, is why John was hired to
be part of the show. In the first place because
(14:39):
of his work as a clinical psychologist in New South
Wales helping real life couples. But what a lot of
you don't know is the fact that in late twenty seventeen,
just after the show's fourth season went to air, which
was also Tara's first season as the EP of the show,
where she started supersizing the former and bringing in new
(15:00):
twists and scandals, the Psychology Council of New South Wales
were forced to intervene. An unnamed cast member from season
four launched an official complaint against John to the Psychology Council,
and after the Council conducted an investigation, they said in
this email, which was previously published by The Daily Mail,
mister John Aiken is no longer participating on the TV
(15:20):
program as a psychologist and he has updated his bio
on the nine Now website to reflect this. Please note
that mister Aiken is still able to participate in the show, however,
he is no longer able to refer to himself as
a psychologist or undertake psychological practice. This means that so
long as all reference to him being a psychologist has
(15:41):
been removed from the show, mister Aikin can continue to
work on it. In that email, which was sent on
September fifth, twenty seventeen, the Psychology Council of New South
Wales also added this, The Council acknowledges that this may
not be the outcome you had hoped for and understands
that you may be upset. However, I would again reassure
(16:01):
you that the Council considers all complaints seriously and takes
what it considers to be the most appropriate course of
action available to it. As far as I can tell,
that ruling macked a huge change on the show and
for the roles of the experts because John and the
others were no longer restricted by their professional titles. Losing
(16:21):
that official title in connection to the show meant John
and the others could go harder, be louder, and push
boundaries in ways they likely wouldn't have done before, and
if they wanted to. They could also now conspire with
producers to help start drama instead of helping resolve it
like they were initially hired to do. This is John
from last season sharing his experiences with the Experts in
(16:43):
a recent TikTok.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
The Experts they're actually nice favor it was so weird
because I'd get roasted by them, absolutely roasted by them.
And then in the last episode of filming theme, I'm like, John.
Speaker 13 (16:55):
O, you're such a great guy. Our congratulations, Like mel
gave me a hug, and I just remember being this
out of body experience because I just got my asshole
handed to me by them.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
They tore me to shreds, and then they just gave
me a hug, and I realized that they're paid actors
and they have earpieces in You'll see every now and again,
John in particular will stop and sort of look when
you're sitting across from him, because he's actually listening to
what he's he's been told what to say.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
This has been one of the longest running rumors on
Married at First Sight. Are the experts fed questions for
a secret earpiece by producers who are telling them exactly
what to say in order to steer things further, Well, yeah,
they are, which former expert neuropsychotherapist doctor Tricia Stratford previously
confirmed herself, and she cited that as one of the
(17:56):
many reasons that led to her quitting the show.
Speaker 17 (18:00):
Are on camera, the executive producer would ask us to
ask questions we could ask our own questions, but the
producer would ask us to ask questions. I would either
reframe those questions or I wouldn't ask them.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Not only this, but these days on this current season.
Morena recently told me that as filming wrapped in the
early hours of the morning for one of her commitment ceremonies,
and as all the casts were leaving the studio and
getting into their taxes, she snook off from the group
and went back inside to go to the bathroom. And
when she went back in the building, she then saw
the experts doing something that she never expected.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I looked through the payphole of the door like a
little kid, right like that, and I see the three puppeteers.
Sorry you keep referring to them as the experts, they
really anyway, and camera crew, one by one they're being filmed.
(19:02):
One liners, what did I hear? Nobody likes you. You're
a disgrace. That behavior is not warranted on our watch.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You ought to
be ashamed of yourselves. So they don't mention any names.
(19:23):
So then they make sure that when they look back
at their footage, whatever they're going to grab for that person,
not just me, anybody. They're being going to throw that
one liner in you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
To me, that proves that not only has the role
of relationship expert transformed over the years into essentially being
a prop for production, but they're also now just acting
as well. They're playing the role of a relationship expert
and actively contributing to manufacturing storylines. As I've already said,
(19:57):
the current lineup of experts consist of unical psychologist John
who has been there since season one, dating coach Mel Schilling,
who replaced human behavioral experts Sabina Read in season two,
and sexologist Alessandra Rampola, who replaced doctor Tricia Stratford in
season eight. I reached out to Sabina Read earlier this week,
(20:18):
wondering if she'd like to talk about what made her
walk away from Married at First Sight after just one season,
when it was obvious to all back then that this
little show they'd just worked on was set to become
a huge hit. Sabina politely declined to come onto the podcast,
but she said, and I quote, her involvement in the
show was ancient history now but she did add that
(20:38):
the well being of the participants was always paramount to her.
So does that mean that even back then ten years
ago some of the people involved could see the direction
Married at First Sight Australia was already heading That's just
me speculating, of course. But one person who did make
it clear that she was not comfortable with how the
show was slowly changing over the years was former expert
(21:00):
doctor Tricia Stratford, who suddenly passed away in twenty twenty three,
age seventy two. When Doctor Tricia's exit was announced in
early twenty twenty one, she was quoted in a statement
sent out by Channel nine as saying, after seven years
have Married at First Sight, I've decided to step away
from television to focus on my writing, research and europsychotherapy.
(21:23):
Yet once that pressure release had done the rounds, the
Late Start then went live on New Zealand Radio and
she told a very different story.
Speaker 15 (21:31):
I really felt that I'm not going to say I've
done the show, but right in the start and I've
done seven seasons and it's time to move on. I
just felt that I joined the show with the best
intentions to match people and I really believe in that
social experiment. I think people are looking for love, and
(21:53):
there are many ways you can find love, and I
think married at first sight is one of the ways.
But it became really clear me over the last two seasons,
but particularly last season, that the type of people who
are applying for the show were just becoming more and
more outrageous, and it became very difficult to match people
(22:17):
who were on the show for the wrong reasons. I
understand the network and production company need to make a
show that's going to rate, but there has to be
a happy medium in there, and I think for me
it just swung too much the other way.
Speaker 16 (22:32):
That one of the things is the people that are
on it that reached a stage where they were, for
one of a better phrase, starting to become stars, and
that in itself perhaps encouraged people to bube outrageously.
Speaker 15 (22:43):
Oh correct, So they started to come on to be influences.
This is their opportunity for stardom, and I suppose you
need to It's a really good discussion to have. You know,
are we that desperate for role models or stars that
we make reality TV stars and to some people which
(23:04):
to aspire.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
To be doctor Tricia also went on to claim that
once Tara took over as the EP and the show
got bigger each year, the experts would then have less
and less involvement in the matchmaking, which is weird because
that was initially why they were hired.
Speaker 15 (23:19):
That is another concern with another concern to me that
in the beginning, the three of us played a big
role in matching them because that's what we were there for,
our expertise. But unfortunately, over the last couple of seasons
that became less and less as well. And I'm in
my integrity and I'm thinking it's just not working for
(23:42):
me anymore. I don't feel as though I have enough
involvement in the matching because it's kind of moved from
matching to casting.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Hearing doctor Tricia say that is quite interesting. Just a
few months ago, as this year's season launched, Tricia's farmer
co expert John was live on Channel nine Today claiming this.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Your role is an important one.
Speaker 8 (24:04):
You know you value it?
Speaker 12 (24:05):
Yeah, oh absolutely, And you know, mel Alessandra myself spend
months meeting these people, getting to really drill down, assess them.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
We put them together.
Speaker 12 (24:15):
Compatibility is very important.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
So which is it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Do the experts have minimals say in the matchmaking process,
and the producers just cast it as a TV show
like Doctor Trisha was suggesting what's happening? Or is John
Wright and him mel and Alessandra spent months going through
applications and interviewing them all one by one. This is
something Johneral from last season has also shared his thoughts
on on TikTok.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
And the point of today's video was the letter one
know that the producers are the ones who decide on
the couples, the experts, and I'm going to make this call.
I'm going to say that the little bit the experts
do where they all sit down and go, oh, we've
chosen this couple together because you know, he breathes oxygen
and so does she.
Speaker 6 (25:00):
Perfect match.
Speaker 15 (25:01):
It's perfect.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
I'm gonna say that They record that at the end
of the three.
Speaker 13 (25:07):
Months of filming, not before the weddings. That's my core.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
They wait until they see how it all plays out,
and then they put little bits of information. You can
see John in the one last Night, he's reading off
a piece of paper. It's not his own words. He's
been told what to say. Are they there to help couples.
Speaker 13 (25:29):
Come together?
Speaker 5 (25:30):
And be happy.
Speaker 13 (25:31):
Not at all, not one percent.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
They're there to improve the ratings of the show, which
they do a great job at. Like I said, I
got my ass absolutely handed to me at the final
commitment ceremony, and then at the reunion commitment ceremony they
destroyed me and then gave me a big hug, said Johnny,
you're a great guy. Wish you all the best.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And then asked Ben Walters, who appeared on last year's
season alongside John O, how much interaction did he have
with the experts pray to filming his wedding.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
He told me this, I was a bit different.
Speaker 11 (26:03):
I first had a zoom chat with Alessandra and John Aiken,
but my interviews happened in twenty twenty one and I
was on the show in twenty twenty four, so they
must have kept me on the back burner for a
bunch of years. And then finally I get the phone
call out the bloom and so do you want to
be on the show? And then I just had a
(26:23):
one on one in person with mel so I had
all three So that's the only bit of conversation I
had prior. So were they instrumental in the process? Absolutely not.
What was instrumental was the production the producers are going
through the application and seeing her from ready and excited
(26:47):
to be on a show.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
When Doctor Trisha did leave the show, she actually attempted
to want all of us about what was happening behind
the scenes and the shift that was slow taking place.
But I suppose that we the fans of the show
weren't ready to believe it at that point in time
because we were also wrapped up in the drama of
each episode and the addictive storylines. In a print interview
(27:13):
that she did with Woman's Day New Zealand in twenty
twenty one, Doctor Tricia explained how she and I quote
felt sick watching things play out during the filming of
season seven, which was her last season, and she said this,
by the end, I couldn't compromise my professional and personal
standards anymore because there were participants on the show who
I felt shouldn't have been there. If someone gets through
(27:36):
the critical selection process when we say we don't want
them on the show because they're quite fragile, they aren't
going to do well after the show once it airs.
Elaborating on this further in a podcast with the ABC
Doctor Tricia explained firstly that despite stating in her pre
season assessment that there was one participant in particular she
(27:56):
felt should not have been cast, as she later there
flagged midway through production how she could see this participant
in particular was not coping and she believed that she
should be removed for her own mental health. This is
doctor Tricia explaining what happened next.
Speaker 9 (28:12):
So I approached Channel nine and asked them if we
could have a meeting. The next thing I got was
that the production was closing down for a couple of
weeks and that I was to attend a meeting at
the network. I was quite surprised at that meeting number
one that there was such an array of top level
(28:33):
people and lawyers there from BOT nine and in the Wilshine,
But I felt they were attempting to booky me. After
that meeting, I was completely out of the loop. I
did not know anything that was going on. They didn't
want to include me.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
The cast member in question, who doctor Tricia repeatedly raised
concerns over, was eventually sent home from the show during
production and when she got home, and this is in
cast member's own words from her previous interview they did.
They had a mental breakdown at their parents' home, to
the point where the police and an ambulance were called
and they were then hospitalized. On the Section twenty three
(29:11):
of the New South Wales Mental Health Act, reflecting again
on the dangerous direction Maths was heading in when she quit.
In what I believe was her final ever radio interview,
Dr Trisha was asked if she fought things would get
worse rather than better.
Speaker 16 (29:26):
Do you feel that, basically given and you were concerned
about these direction the show was going in the last
two seasons, that there's even a possibility they're going to
get more sensationalists than the season coming.
Speaker 15 (29:38):
I hope not, and I hope not for the safety,
the mental health safety of the participants who come on
the show. It's a courageous thing to do. The presha
they are under, not just from the production company, from
the fellow pants. You know that all in heightened state,
(30:01):
they're quite anxious. Those who weren't anxious before they came
on the show develop anxiety, you know, they become anxious
because of the PreCure. Those who don't cope really well
become very anxious. So I hope, I hope that they
choose the right people for the show, and I hope
(30:23):
that they really look after them. But that's part of me.
The other part of me reality television.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think an important thing to question here is, as
doctor Trisha expressed her very valid concerns for the show
and Cord for all these changes four years ago, now,
why did the other experts, John and mel remain. Why
were they willing to go along with these things that
seemingly went against the core principles behind their pre married
at First Sight professions, especially now as the show has
(30:54):
reached a point where half of the tasks that they
have the couples do are introduced solely to trying to
them apart, no matter how much they'll try and justify
it using their serious expert voices.
Speaker 8 (31:06):
Confessions Week is a crucial part of the experiment. We
want our couples to develop levels of emotional connection which
would normally take months or even years to create in
the outside world.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Get comfortable, getting uncomfortable.
Speaker 9 (31:18):
Oh.
Speaker 8 (31:20):
Throughout the week, the couples will face a series of
tasks that will challenge them to be honest with one another.
They may find these tasks confronting, but each one is
carefully designed to help them to be vulnerable with one
another so they grow as a comfort.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
One big difference now, though, is the fact that viewers
are no longer just blindly accepting these things like they
used to do, and they're not just calling out cast
members and platforms like TikTok, but the experts too, And
these videos that the fans are posting are often getting
more views than the show itself. Listen to this one
from a TikTok creator called Aims Dicko.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
The maths experts masquerade as relationships when their real job
is to manufacture drama to test the contestants breaking points.
Let's call a spade a spade. Wife Swap Week is
nothing more than a recipe for infidelity, and the photo
ranking task is just a cruel psychological experiment. As much
as the experts try to justify it, these are not
(32:19):
essential exercises in relationship growth. This is an experiment on
human labyriates designed for failure, not success.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
With all of this in mind, I asked doctor Isabel Morley,
remember who is an actual practicing clinical psychologist, her thoughts
on some of the tasks that are Australian experts have
the couples do, and she said, this, don't.
Speaker 7 (32:41):
Get me started on the therapists who participate in this,
because I feel like there are so many huge ethical
issues that I can't believe people do what they do
on these shows.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
One of the most I'd say fascinating because it's so
bizarre that they do that. But on Marriat at First Sight,
one of the first challenges the couples have to do,
which is second week of being married. So they've just
had the first dinner party, they've just met all the
other couples in the experiment, and then they go home
and the next day, each couple is given photos of
everyone in the experiment and they have to put them
(33:11):
in order of who they're most attracted to, from.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Like most to least.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
And in the most recent season here there's a man
called Ryan who's match with a girl called Jackie, and
Jackie is admittedly she's quite insecure that that's been made
obvious from the start, and then her husband he says, well,
I'm going to do this honestly, and he puts her
as the third most attractive. Then Letter says, maybe you
would have been fourth, and Jackie just keeps springing it
(33:37):
up and viewers keep going get over it, But like,
can you imagine being yeah, I would get over it.
I'd be fucking heartbroken.
Speaker 17 (33:45):
No.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
And that's what I think people mess up about these
shows when they are in them or watch them, is
that it is not an experiment in honesty, like this
is somebody she just married and is still getting to know.
They don't have a secure attachment to each other. They're
building a foundation. If they want to stay married, they
have to do the things that married couples do, which
is put each other first, prioritize each other's feelings, be
(34:09):
aware of how they're impacting each other. But because it's
a show, right, there's this idea that like they should
just do the experiment as it's intended. But these experiments
are not intended to create healthy, long lasting marriages. They're
intended to create entertainment, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
And I find it hilarious the justification of the relationship
experts about why they do each of these things, like, well,
this is designed to test their loyalty.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
It's like, no, it's not.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
It's designed to destroy the confidence of these people.
Speaker 7 (34:38):
Right, They're a week in, they have no loyalty, they
haven't built anything together.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yet, so why are John, mel and Alessandra happy to
go along with these things? I message each of the
experts individually on Thursday morning at ten forty six am
to see if any of them would like to chat
offer common or clarity to any of the things discussed
in this podcast. I did not receive a room apply for.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Many of them.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Instead, at nine for three am on Friday, I received
an email from Channel nine's head of publicity. In the email,
she stated, I understand that you have made contacts with
the experts from Married at First Sight. Please do not
contact directly and send all correspondents via Channel nine Publicity.
I then replied to that email, firstly by stating, thank
you for the email, as the podcast I'm working on
(35:24):
is specifically about the experts and questioning their integrity through
the issues. Dr Tricia Stratford repeatedly raised, which led to
her exit. I'd rather go to them directly, as my
emails via Channel nine often go un answered, and at
least this way I can be sure they received the
offer to respond. I then detailed all the questions I
had for the expert to Channel nine Publicity as they
(35:44):
asked me to, and again I received no response, which
is what happens pretty much every time I do put
a question to Channel nine, which is why I messaged
the experts directly. I then took inspiration from Channel nine's
flagship news program, a current affair show that Channel nine
describes says the People Show, where their team of investigative
journalists hold people accountable, usually by firing questions at them
(36:08):
on the street once they've refused to be a part
of whatever their investigations are. Having had zero response to
any of my messages and questions, I then approached John
as he left a lunch at a celebrity hotspot restaurant
and returned to his car in Sydney's Double Bay on
Friday at two thirty six pm. I initially approached John
as he entered the car park. I introduced myself from
(36:29):
the podcast, and he turned around and shook my hand
and greeted me by name, as he knows.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
Who I am.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
He then refused to answer any of my questions and
has also since accused me of harassment and being threatening,
which I strongly deny. As a journalist, I was asking John,
who remember is a public figure, what I believe were
very reasonable questions at a time when this is currently
both a police investigation and Safe Work New South Wales
government investigation into the show that he's been the main
(36:56):
star for ten years now. So for full transparency, will
now play you the full unedited audio of our entire exchange.
Hey John math spunny podcast?
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Mate? How are you doing a couple of questions?
Speaker 6 (37:11):
I'm not going to answer your questions, but I will
introduce myself.
Speaker 12 (37:13):
I am not going to answer more questions because I
feel like I've got things to do.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Do you ever feel ethically and morally compromise what you
do on that show?
Speaker 6 (37:23):
Do you know what?
Speaker 12 (37:24):
I'm not going to answer your questions, but what I
would suggest you do is you put them to nine.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
I have none of them replied to me, and I've
messaged you as well. You would you do that last night?
Is that right? Yes?
Speaker 6 (37:39):
I didn't receive anything.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Can you agree that the task I kind of designed
to just tell these couples apart?
Speaker 6 (37:46):
He's good, isn't he?
Speaker 12 (37:47):
But would you know I'm not going to would you
recommend a couple of comments across Australia?
Speaker 6 (37:52):
Are you watching me out there?
Speaker 4 (37:53):
I've been trying to speak to you, Is that right?
Speaker 13 (37:55):
No?
Speaker 4 (37:55):
One replies to me, why do you think that is?
Because no one has to answer these questions? Isn't this
why doctor Tricia left. I'm off to go home, but
to meet you so you don't want to speak?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
No, no, it Would you recommend couples across Australia kind
of go and squat partners for a week to strengthen
the relationships?
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Is that something you and your wife?
Speaker 5 (38:16):
John?
Speaker 6 (38:16):
Are you gonna come up stairs with me?
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (38:20):
Well, I'm gonna head to the post office thing.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Okay, we're gonna have a doubt together.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
Are you gonna come with me?
Speaker 4 (38:26):
You've got nothing you wish to say? Do you not
agree this season's crossed the line?
Speaker 12 (38:35):
I mean, I'm amazed if you're at your perseverance.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Well, no one's answering these questions, and I think this
this season has crossed they that's a you problem.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
That's a I think it's a your problem. What's happening
on the show. You must have been accused of enabling
abusive behavior. Anything to say to that?
Speaker 6 (38:55):
What else you got from me?
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Josh? Do you and your wife followed the touch you're
doing that? Would you go? Are you someone else for
a few days to strengthen the marge.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Where else you going? Uh, Anthony, Anthony, can I come in?
Speaker 4 (39:07):
I'm yeah, I'm just playing arrest harassed. I'm answering your questions.
So John, You've got nothing to say.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Just for context here as you're only hearing the audio.
John turned around as I asked him the questions and
returned to the restaurant he'd just been dining at. He
then stepped inside and told a member of staff that
I believe he's friends with, that he was being harassed
by me, and he then sat at a table with
that member of staff laughing. I then asked John one
final question whilstood a few meters away on the street
(39:40):
on public Land, and as I did that, he proceeded
to get his phone out and film me. Hey John, John,
last question, is it the money or the fame where
you keep going against the principles of a psychologist?
Speaker 4 (39:53):
John? John? The money of the fame? No answer, am
I exactly? Hey John?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
You can send that to Channel nine and animal ask
them to reply to my emails. Nah, but this is
not gonna end well this year.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
John. You've pushed these people too far and you know it.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Trigger on and here that comment from me there was
in regard to the mental health of the participants and
how it will not end well. And as I keep
saying on this podcast, if the people behind this show
do not change their practices, there will be irreversible consequences,
which is echoed by every cast member I speak to,
who will fear somebody will take their own life as
a result of participating in this show. The member of staff,
(40:38):
who I assumed John is friends with, given how he
greeted him by first name and then sat with him
as he returned to the restaurant, then came out and
said to me, if I scream out again over the restaurant,
it's not going to be good, which I perceived as
a threat. And again, for full transparency, here is the
full unedited audio, starting exactly where that previous clip was cut.
(40:58):
I can speak to him though springing out over the
restaurant to get.
Speaker 6 (41:03):
Out of the restaurants.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Sorry, did you just froighten me?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
And then after that I just went home and realized
these experts will never.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Answer questions like this.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I also want to state that I don't like doing
things like that.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Some journalists love it.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
The Channel nine journals on a current affair, literally chasing
people down streets every day. Seem to love it, but
I don't. It's just not really my personality. And I
was rattled for the rest of the day after that,
and I didn't.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
Sleep that night thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
But I do think questions like that need to be
asked to people like John, and now is the time
with everything that's happening surrounding the show. Even earlier this week,
I had a cast member from the current season sobbing
to me on the phone, telling me the medication there
now taking just to get through the impact being on
that show has had in them. Also last month, remember
when I sat down with Marena. She told me how
(41:52):
she and two other cast members came close to self
harming during filming as it all became too much. And
a show that's meant to entertainers and help strangers find
love just shouldn't lead to things like this. And again,
that's why I felt it was important to put those
questions to John, And that's why I'm doing this on
this podcast, because, as I've said a million times now,
(42:13):
if they do not change their practices behind the scenes,
someone will take.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Their own life.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
That sounds horrible, but it's the honest reality, and all
the press I see the experts doing seems to be
just either the nine website, Channel nines, Today's Show and
all these things where no one will push them and
ask anything important.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Anyway, that's all I've got for now.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Thank you for listening, and make sure you're subscribed to
the Mass Funny podcast. There'll be more spoilers and stories
throughout the week as usual, and Part three of this
investigation will likely be next Sunday. One last thing as well,
if you're able to give the podcast a rating on
whatever app you're listening to it on. I'd really appreciate
that and it actually helps me out massively. Have a
nice week everyone, Goodbye,
Welcome to the second episode of the Downfall of Married
at First Sight Australia, an investigation by the Maths Funny
podcast hosted by me Joshua Fox. After we took a
deep dive into the origins of the show last week
and the methods that executive producer Tara McWilliams and her
merry team of like minded puppet masters go to in
(00:21):
order to ensure that Maths continues to generate tens of
millions of dollars a season. This week are we shining
a spotlight on the show's self proclaimed relationship experts, with
the current lineup consisting of John Aikin, Mel Shilling and
Alessandra Rampola.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Like, how do you call yourself experts and you say
that you're matching people because you know your own payper
It would work amazingly.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
I think from the very beginning this was just two
people matched purely for car crash television.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
If you ask Channel nine. These three are the most
integral part of the experiment. Their combined backgrounds on the
studies across psychology, relationship counseling, human behavior, and clinical sexology
provide each of the couples that they carefully match together,
not just the tools to build solid foundations for their
new found relationships, but for those relationships to thrive as well.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Or that's what they're meant to do.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
Oh guys, the experts have nothing to do with matching
the people, nothing at all.
Speaker 6 (01:24):
They're paid actors.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
They speak at you.
Speaker 7 (01:26):
It's not a two way conversation, because you'll be like,
my husband yelled at me last night, and they respond
by going, uh, actually, we're out of time.
Speaker 8 (01:34):
We're not going to address that today.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Stay or leave. So it's like you're like, but he's
yelling at me, like help me.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
In the ten years that this show has been running now,
only six of the one hundred and seven couples they've
matched have actually stayed together.
Speaker 9 (01:49):
How about the experts?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
They haven't got rubbish.
Speaker 10 (01:52):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And is that because they're truly terrible at the job.
Speaker 11 (01:57):
They're there to even to a point to divide people
and split them up. It's fucking awful.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Or is it because they're being advised to purposely mismatch people?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
The maths experts masquerade as relationship warriors when their real
job is to manufacture drama to test the contestants' breaking points.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Just so they can clash and explode.
Speaker 9 (02:19):
I felt ethically, professionally, morally compromised. Now I have to
take responsibility for this as well.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And if that's true, is this something the experts have
happily agreed to or did they have no say in
the matter.
Speaker 9 (02:35):
I felt they were attempting to booky me. After that meeting,
I was completely out of the loop. I did not
know anything that was going on. They didn't want to
include me.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
With a success rate as small as theirs, in any
of a job, you'd be out the door. Yet despite that,
the three of them are still sat there calling themselves experts.
And I think that it's about time that we, the
viewers of this show, question what exactly are they experts of?
Because I'm yet to see any expertise in anything.
Speaker 12 (03:08):
You know, mel Alessandra Marsels. One of our roles as
experts is to hold a mirror up and show them
what they're doing wrong and how to put it right.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
And it's not always pretty.
Speaker 13 (03:17):
Sometimes when you hold that it's.
Speaker 12 (03:19):
Very ugly at times.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Allie Well John, mel Alessandra, perhaps it's now time I
hold that mirror up to you free and show you
what you're doing wrong.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Before we get to all that.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Though, since the first episode of this podcast series dropped,
I've seen the same comment repeated over and over and over,
people stating that they have no sympathy for anyone left
broken and push to the brink after finding themselves part
of this experiment as they chose to sign up to it,
which is something I've often questioned myself too. Why would
(03:55):
any person who is thinking rationally subject themselves to this
when so much stuff out there saying do not do it.
In an attempt to answer this, I put the question
to doctor Isabel Morley, who is quite possibly the best
person in the world to answer it. Not only is
doctor Isabel Morley a practicing clinical psychologist, she's also a
(04:16):
board member of the YUKAN Foundation, which stands for Unscripted
Cast Advocacy Network, an American based organization that's providing mental
health support and legal advice to past, present, and future
stars of reality television. Since the foundation was established by
a star of Netflix's Lovies Blind in twenty twenty three,
(04:37):
doctor Isabel Morley and her team have slowly been challenging
the law surrounding reality TV in America to provide the
people on these shows with basic human rights, and so
far they're successfully bringing changes. And when I asked doctor Morley,
why would anyone ever sign up to a show like
Married at First Sight, she responded by telling me this, I.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
Think that modern dating sucks. I think are sick of
swiping left and right and wasting time and not finding love.
And the idea of going on a show and having
somebody do that legwork for you and maybe pick out
your dream partner sounds very appealing. And the secondary gain
of maybe becoming famous or getting a following or launching
(05:18):
a career also sounds fantastic. And I think people don't
realize that a lot of the time people are approached
to be on these shows, they are recruiters are finding
them on their social media and their LinkedIn and asking
them to be a part of the interview process. So
a lot of people aren't actually volunteering themselves. They're being
pulled into the process without expecting to be and from
(05:39):
there they're told it will be a certain experience. These
producers are really good at telling you we'll take care
of you. We're going to find an amazing person to
match you with. You won't have to worry about dating
you'll get a good edit. Don't worry, You're going to
be the hero.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Of the show.
Speaker 7 (05:53):
And everyone is told that story, but not everybody ends
up being the hero of the season. But why wouldn't
you believe someone's saying don't worry, We'll take care of
you the whole time.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And that's exactly how Dean Well has found himself on
season five back in twenty eighteen, which he previously revealed
to the ABC, there.
Speaker 10 (06:10):
Were some casting people, a man and a woman walking
around the bar, hitting up men and asking them questions.
You know, I saw them. I thought, oh, what's going
on there. Then they came over to me and just said, Hey,
we're recruiting for this TV show, Married at First Sight.
Speaker 6 (06:28):
Could we have a little chat with you?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
And I was like, okayeah, no worries.
Speaker 10 (06:32):
They pulled me over to the side of the bar
and just said, look, this is the concept of the show.
You know you're going to marry a stranger. Can you
tell us a little bit about yourself and are you
looking for a relationship?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Are you single?
Speaker 10 (06:46):
And I was just like, yeah, I'm single, definitely looking
for a relationship, looking for the right partner.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Speaking to doctor Morley, I also wanted to ask her
if there's a level of naivety behind anyone's decision to
sign up to any reality show again, because there's so
much out there saying.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Do not do it.
Speaker 7 (07:04):
Oh absolutely, I think people also believe you know, I
will act true to myself. I won't get caught up
in whatever the demands of the show are. I won't
say anything I regret without realizing that the conditions they
put you in are incredibly stressful. It is a time
pressured situation, it is emotional, and you will undoubtedly say
(07:25):
things that you regret. So everyone has the best of
intentions and thinks that they won't be the one to
get dragged. But guess what, every season, everybody gets dragged.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
As much as that does make sense, I then asked
doctor Morley if she could put me in the mindset
of any potential participan in the day the show's contract
finally arrives at their door, and why anyone would so
willingly sign that given what's in those contracts. Yeah, these
one clause in it, and if I read this, I
would run a mile, And it says I understand my
(07:56):
actions and the actions of others displayed in an in
connection with the program may expose me to public ridicule, humiliation,
or condemnation. My actions may be seen as disparaging, defometry, embarrassing, shocking, surprising,
or of an otherwise unfavorable nature.
Speaker 7 (08:13):
The contracts in the US are exactly the same, the
same wording, the same warnings I would say of condemnation
and humiliation, And I think a lot of people read
it and think they have to put that in here.
You know, they're covering their legal bases, but maybe it
doesn't apply to me, And at least in the US,
I don't know Howard is. In Australia. People don't have
(08:35):
a lot of time with their contracts. They get it
and they get a certain number of hours to read
through and sign it, and there's pressure because the production
company is saying, listen, let us know because we have
fifteen other people who are dying to be on this show.
So if you're out, somebody else is in. They have
no chance to talk to a lawyer, they have no
negotiating power to ask for things to be removed from
(08:57):
the contract. So basically you've already stunk a lot of time.
I'm an energy and you've imagined yourself on this show.
You get a contract, it's got a clause like that,
But what are you going to do? You don't have
much opportunity to negotiate or to say no at that point.
But even then, what can you really say? Ask the
production company to take out a clause and they'll say
no and thank you very much for your time, We're
(09:17):
going to go with somebody else. So it puts all
the cast in a very difficult position. And again, I
think partly is who reads a contract that carefully, who
goes through a line by line. Nobody has a legal background.
They don't know what they're signing on to exactly, and
people are just they don't have a chance to be informed.
So they sign it and they're suddenly a part of
(09:38):
a show and they're part of the process.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That's true. They are indeed a part of a process now.
And although it may have been a cumbination of being
soda dream blissful, naivety and a whole lot of pressure
and manipulation that got them there, these days, we do
have to also acknowledge that the potential of gaining fame,
of following on a platform to make a lot of
money is also a major incentive but long before appearing
(10:03):
on the show spawned any opportunities like that. The real
selling point, so many cast members have told me, convinced
them to sign on the dotted line was the relationship
experts and what they represented. That's certainly what made Dean
Wells say yes.
Speaker 10 (10:17):
The wording they used was we use a scientific method
to find the perfect partner for you, and I think
they even said we've got the perfect woman for you.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
And did they have the perfect woman waiting for Dean No,
not quite. To take things back to the very start
when Married at first first launch in Australia in twenty fifteen,
the entire premise of the show centered around the experts.
They were the stars of this show, which was made
clear from the very first minute of the very first episode.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
This basically will put the relationships on steroids.
Speaker 14 (10:52):
Three of Australia's top relationship experts are leading this radical experiment.
Speaker 9 (10:58):
Cam matchmaking produce a long lasting relationship.
Speaker 14 (11:03):
Using a mix of neuroscience and psychology. They'll try to
create four perfect matches.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
I think he's too strong a personality.
Speaker 9 (11:12):
Is she going to be resilient enough in this pressure cooker?
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I want to find someone. I want to have kids
one day, so why not do it this way?
Speaker 7 (11:21):
At least this guy.
Speaker 15 (11:22):
They did a criminal check. You know, that's good.
Speaker 7 (11:24):
That's a good start.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Their expertise gave the concept credibility, integrity, and it said
that hey, this isn't car Crush TV in the making,
but a genuine attempt to help strangers find love. When
you hear the show referred to as an experiment, initially,
they were the ones test in the hypothesis and were experimenting.
Speaker 9 (11:45):
Couple's pairing for romantic love is a recent innovation in
our evolutionary history.
Speaker 14 (11:51):
The first expert relationship psychologist John Aiken, puts couples under
the microscope.
Speaker 12 (11:58):
I've been doing this now for twenty years, dealing with
singles and couples day in, day out, teaching them what
they're doing wrong and then showing them how to put
it right.
Speaker 14 (12:06):
Through extensive psychological evaluations. He's created detailed personal profiles of
the potential matches. The second expert, neuros psychotherapist, doctor Tricia Stratford,
looks at how the brain reacts to love and attraction.
The final expert, psychologist Sabina Reid, wants to make sure
(12:27):
the recipe for a successful match is just right. The
idea behind these arranged marriages is that we're more mindful
of the ingredients that we're putting into the mix.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Over the years, the roles of the experts has somehow
gone from assisting the couples to antagonizing them.
Speaker 12 (12:45):
What do you think that you can do, Colins that
will bring her close and make her feel special?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
No, I'm sorry. I came to you for advice. What
should I do? Just think about it if you decided
to stay together. No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 12 (13:03):
I'm not here to tell you what to do.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
You're not here to give me advice.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Over the years, expert John even now makes no secret
of the fact that the way he believes he can
help the couples is by calling them up.
Speaker 12 (13:15):
Certainly, the commitment ceremonies are where we really come out
hard at them. Okay, so tell us about the commitment ceremonies.
Speaker 14 (13:22):
How are you going to help some of these couples
to get back on track?
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Well?
Speaker 12 (13:26):
I tend to just come out and you know, tough love. Yeah,
call him out, call out the bad behavior.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
John has even previously admitted that former expert doctor Tricia
Stratford would have to tell him to rein it in
on SAT while they're filming.
Speaker 12 (13:41):
I have a lot of great memories with her. I mean,
she got so excited about anything to do with the
brain and love. And she brought into this experiment, the
pheromone test, where people would smell clothes, and she just
gets so excited about all of that. And you know,
she also wore this white lab coat, you know, which
(14:02):
was amazing. She made it look, you know, kind of fashionable.
She was great as well because she'd keep.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Me in check.
Speaker 12 (14:08):
You know, sometimes I'll be yelling at the participants and
she'd say, you know, John, don't get too preachy. Bring
it down a notch.
Speaker 16 (14:14):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 12 (14:15):
So she was always like, you say, that calm voice
of reason.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
But the issue there is John shouldn't need someone there
to keep him in check. If his role on the
show is to guide and advise, it should never reach
a point where he's told, hey, you're yelling at them
too much, because why is he yelling at all? This
isn't what you'd expect of a clinical psychologist, is it, Which,
as we all know, is why John was hired to
be part of the show. In the first place because
(14:39):
of his work as a clinical psychologist in New South
Wales helping real life couples. But what a lot of
you don't know is the fact that in late twenty seventeen,
just after the show's fourth season went to air, which
was also Tara's first season as the EP of the show,
where she started supersizing the former and bringing in new
(15:00):
twists and scandals, the Psychology Council of New South Wales
were forced to intervene. An unnamed cast member from season
four launched an official complaint against John to the Psychology Council,
and after the Council conducted an investigation, they said in
this email, which was previously published by The Daily Mail,
mister John Aiken is no longer participating on the TV
(15:20):
program as a psychologist and he has updated his bio
on the nine Now website to reflect this. Please note
that mister Aiken is still able to participate in the show, however,
he is no longer able to refer to himself as
a psychologist or undertake psychological practice. This means that so
long as all reference to him being a psychologist has
(15:41):
been removed from the show, mister Aikin can continue to
work on it. In that email, which was sent on
September fifth, twenty seventeen, the Psychology Council of New South
Wales also added this, The Council acknowledges that this may
not be the outcome you had hoped for and understands
that you may be upset. However, I would again reassure
(16:01):
you that the Council considers all complaints seriously and takes
what it considers to be the most appropriate course of
action available to it. As far as I can tell,
that ruling macked a huge change on the show and
for the roles of the experts because John and the
others were no longer restricted by their professional titles. Losing
(16:21):
that official title in connection to the show meant John
and the others could go harder, be louder, and push
boundaries in ways they likely wouldn't have done before, and
if they wanted to. They could also now conspire with
producers to help start drama instead of helping resolve it
like they were initially hired to do. This is John
from last season sharing his experiences with the Experts in
(16:43):
a recent TikTok.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
The Experts they're actually nice favor it was so weird
because I'd get roasted by them, absolutely roasted by them.
And then in the last episode of filming theme, I'm like, John.
Speaker 13 (16:55):
O, you're such a great guy. Our congratulations, Like mel
gave me a hug, and I just remember being this
out of body experience because I just got my asshole
handed to me by them.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
They tore me to shreds, and then they just gave
me a hug, and I realized that they're paid actors
and they have earpieces in You'll see every now and again,
John in particular will stop and sort of look when
you're sitting across from him, because he's actually listening to
what he's he's been told what to say.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
This has been one of the longest running rumors on
Married at First Sight. Are the experts fed questions for
a secret earpiece by producers who are telling them exactly
what to say in order to steer things further, Well, yeah,
they are, which former expert neuropsychotherapist doctor Tricia Stratford previously
confirmed herself, and she cited that as one of the
(17:56):
many reasons that led to her quitting the show.
Speaker 17 (18:00):
Are on camera, the executive producer would ask us to
ask questions we could ask our own questions, but the
producer would ask us to ask questions. I would either
reframe those questions or I wouldn't ask them.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Not only this, but these days on this current season.
Morena recently told me that as filming wrapped in the
early hours of the morning for one of her commitment ceremonies,
and as all the casts were leaving the studio and
getting into their taxes, she snook off from the group
and went back inside to go to the bathroom. And
when she went back in the building, she then saw
the experts doing something that she never expected.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I looked through the payphole of the door like a
little kid, right like that, and I see the three puppeteers.
Sorry you keep referring to them as the experts, they
really anyway, and camera crew, one by one they're being filmed.
(19:02):
One liners, what did I hear? Nobody likes you. You're
a disgrace. That behavior is not warranted on our watch.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You ought to
be ashamed of yourselves. So they don't mention any names.
(19:23):
So then they make sure that when they look back
at their footage, whatever they're going to grab for that person,
not just me, anybody. They're being going to throw that
one liner in you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
To me, that proves that not only has the role
of relationship expert transformed over the years into essentially being
a prop for production, but they're also now just acting
as well. They're playing the role of a relationship expert
and actively contributing to manufacturing storylines. As I've already said,
(19:57):
the current lineup of experts consist of unical psychologist John
who has been there since season one, dating coach Mel Schilling,
who replaced human behavioral experts Sabina Read in season two,
and sexologist Alessandra Rampola, who replaced doctor Tricia Stratford in
season eight. I reached out to Sabina Read earlier this week,
(20:18):
wondering if she'd like to talk about what made her
walk away from Married at First Sight after just one season,
when it was obvious to all back then that this
little show they'd just worked on was set to become
a huge hit. Sabina politely declined to come onto the podcast,
but she said, and I quote, her involvement in the
show was ancient history now but she did add that
(20:38):
the well being of the participants was always paramount to her.
So does that mean that even back then ten years
ago some of the people involved could see the direction
Married at First Sight Australia was already heading That's just
me speculating, of course. But one person who did make
it clear that she was not comfortable with how the
show was slowly changing over the years was former expert
(21:00):
doctor Tricia Stratford, who suddenly passed away in twenty twenty three,
age seventy two. When Doctor Tricia's exit was announced in
early twenty twenty one, she was quoted in a statement
sent out by Channel nine as saying, after seven years
have Married at First Sight, I've decided to step away
from television to focus on my writing, research and europsychotherapy.
(21:23):
Yet once that pressure release had done the rounds, the
Late Start then went live on New Zealand Radio and
she told a very different story.
Speaker 15 (21:31):
I really felt that I'm not going to say I've
done the show, but right in the start and I've
done seven seasons and it's time to move on. I
just felt that I joined the show with the best
intentions to match people and I really believe in that
social experiment. I think people are looking for love, and
(21:53):
there are many ways you can find love, and I
think married at first sight is one of the ways.
But it became really clear me over the last two seasons,
but particularly last season, that the type of people who
are applying for the show were just becoming more and
more outrageous, and it became very difficult to match people
(22:17):
who were on the show for the wrong reasons. I
understand the network and production company need to make a
show that's going to rate, but there has to be
a happy medium in there, and I think for me
it just swung too much the other way.
Speaker 16 (22:32):
That one of the things is the people that are
on it that reached a stage where they were, for
one of a better phrase, starting to become stars, and
that in itself perhaps encouraged people to bube outrageously.
Speaker 15 (22:43):
Oh correct, So they started to come on to be influences.
This is their opportunity for stardom, and I suppose you
need to It's a really good discussion to have. You know,
are we that desperate for role models or stars that
we make reality TV stars and to some people which
(23:04):
to aspire.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
To be doctor Tricia also went on to claim that
once Tara took over as the EP and the show
got bigger each year, the experts would then have less
and less involvement in the matchmaking, which is weird because
that was initially why they were hired.
Speaker 15 (23:19):
That is another concern with another concern to me that
in the beginning, the three of us played a big
role in matching them because that's what we were there for,
our expertise. But unfortunately, over the last couple of seasons
that became less and less as well. And I'm in
my integrity and I'm thinking it's just not working for
(23:42):
me anymore. I don't feel as though I have enough
involvement in the matching because it's kind of moved from
matching to casting.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Hearing doctor Tricia say that is quite interesting. Just a
few months ago, as this year's season launched, Tricia's farmer
co expert John was live on Channel nine Today claiming this.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Your role is an important one.
Speaker 8 (24:04):
You know you value it?
Speaker 12 (24:05):
Yeah, oh absolutely, And you know, mel Alessandra myself spend
months meeting these people, getting to really drill down, assess them.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
We put them together.
Speaker 12 (24:15):
Compatibility is very important.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
So which is it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Do the experts have minimals say in the matchmaking process,
and the producers just cast it as a TV show
like Doctor Trisha was suggesting what's happening? Or is John
Wright and him mel and Alessandra spent months going through
applications and interviewing them all one by one. This is
something Johneral from last season has also shared his thoughts
on on TikTok.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
And the point of today's video was the letter one
know that the producers are the ones who decide on
the couples, the experts, and I'm going to make this call.
I'm going to say that the little bit the experts
do where they all sit down and go, oh, we've
chosen this couple together because you know, he breathes oxygen
and so does she.
Speaker 6 (25:00):
Perfect match.
Speaker 15 (25:01):
It's perfect.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
I'm gonna say that They record that at the end
of the three.
Speaker 13 (25:07):
Months of filming, not before the weddings. That's my core.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
They wait until they see how it all plays out,
and then they put little bits of information. You can
see John in the one last Night, he's reading off
a piece of paper. It's not his own words. He's
been told what to say. Are they there to help couples.
Speaker 13 (25:29):
Come together?
Speaker 5 (25:30):
And be happy.
Speaker 13 (25:31):
Not at all, not one percent.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
They're there to improve the ratings of the show, which
they do a great job at. Like I said, I
got my ass absolutely handed to me at the final
commitment ceremony, and then at the reunion commitment ceremony they
destroyed me and then gave me a big hug, said Johnny,
you're a great guy. Wish you all the best.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And then asked Ben Walters, who appeared on last year's
season alongside John O, how much interaction did he have
with the experts pray to filming his wedding.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
He told me this, I was a bit different.
Speaker 11 (26:03):
I first had a zoom chat with Alessandra and John Aiken,
but my interviews happened in twenty twenty one and I
was on the show in twenty twenty four, so they
must have kept me on the back burner for a
bunch of years. And then finally I get the phone
call out the bloom and so do you want to
be on the show? And then I just had a
(26:23):
one on one in person with mel so I had
all three So that's the only bit of conversation I
had prior. So were they instrumental in the process? Absolutely not.
What was instrumental was the production the producers are going
through the application and seeing her from ready and excited
(26:47):
to be on a show.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
When Doctor Trisha did leave the show, she actually attempted
to want all of us about what was happening behind
the scenes and the shift that was slow taking place.
But I suppose that we the fans of the show
weren't ready to believe it at that point in time
because we were also wrapped up in the drama of
each episode and the addictive storylines. In a print interview
(27:13):
that she did with Woman's Day New Zealand in twenty
twenty one, Doctor Tricia explained how she and I quote
felt sick watching things play out during the filming of
season seven, which was her last season, and she said this,
by the end, I couldn't compromise my professional and personal
standards anymore because there were participants on the show who
I felt shouldn't have been there. If someone gets through
(27:36):
the critical selection process when we say we don't want
them on the show because they're quite fragile, they aren't
going to do well after the show once it airs.
Elaborating on this further in a podcast with the ABC
Doctor Tricia explained firstly that despite stating in her pre
season assessment that there was one participant in particular she
(27:56):
felt should not have been cast, as she later there
flagged midway through production how she could see this participant
in particular was not coping and she believed that she
should be removed for her own mental health. This is
doctor Tricia explaining what happened next.
Speaker 9 (28:12):
So I approached Channel nine and asked them if we
could have a meeting. The next thing I got was
that the production was closing down for a couple of
weeks and that I was to attend a meeting at
the network. I was quite surprised at that meeting number
one that there was such an array of top level
(28:33):
people and lawyers there from BOT nine and in the Wilshine,
But I felt they were attempting to booky me. After
that meeting, I was completely out of the loop. I
did not know anything that was going on. They didn't
want to include me.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
The cast member in question, who doctor Tricia repeatedly raised
concerns over, was eventually sent home from the show during
production and when she got home, and this is in
cast member's own words from her previous interview they did.
They had a mental breakdown at their parents' home, to
the point where the police and an ambulance were called
and they were then hospitalized. On the Section twenty three
(29:11):
of the New South Wales Mental Health Act, reflecting again
on the dangerous direction Maths was heading in when she quit.
In what I believe was her final ever radio interview,
Dr Trisha was asked if she fought things would get
worse rather than better.
Speaker 16 (29:26):
Do you feel that, basically given and you were concerned
about these direction the show was going in the last
two seasons, that there's even a possibility they're going to
get more sensationalists than the season coming.
Speaker 15 (29:38):
I hope not, and I hope not for the safety,
the mental health safety of the participants who come on
the show. It's a courageous thing to do. The presha
they are under, not just from the production company, from
the fellow pants. You know that all in heightened state,
(30:01):
they're quite anxious. Those who weren't anxious before they came
on the show develop anxiety, you know, they become anxious
because of the PreCure. Those who don't cope really well
become very anxious. So I hope, I hope that they
choose the right people for the show, and I hope
(30:23):
that they really look after them. But that's part of me.
The other part of me reality television.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I think an important thing to question here is, as
doctor Trisha expressed her very valid concerns for the show
and Cord for all these changes four years ago, now,
why did the other experts, John and mel remain. Why
were they willing to go along with these things that
seemingly went against the core principles behind their pre married
at First Sight professions, especially now as the show has
(30:54):
reached a point where half of the tasks that they
have the couples do are introduced solely to trying to
them apart, no matter how much they'll try and justify
it using their serious expert voices.
Speaker 8 (31:06):
Confessions Week is a crucial part of the experiment. We
want our couples to develop levels of emotional connection which
would normally take months or even years to create in
the outside world.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Get comfortable, getting uncomfortable.
Speaker 9 (31:18):
Oh.
Speaker 8 (31:20):
Throughout the week, the couples will face a series of
tasks that will challenge them to be honest with one another.
They may find these tasks confronting, but each one is
carefully designed to help them to be vulnerable with one
another so they grow as a comfort.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
One big difference now, though, is the fact that viewers
are no longer just blindly accepting these things like they
used to do, and they're not just calling out cast
members and platforms like TikTok, but the experts too, And
these videos that the fans are posting are often getting
more views than the show itself. Listen to this one
from a TikTok creator called Aims Dicko.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
The maths experts masquerade as relationships when their real job
is to manufacture drama to test the contestants breaking points.
Let's call a spade a spade. Wife Swap Week is
nothing more than a recipe for infidelity, and the photo
ranking task is just a cruel psychological experiment. As much
as the experts try to justify it, these are not
(32:19):
essential exercises in relationship growth. This is an experiment on
human labyriates designed for failure, not success.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
With all of this in mind, I asked doctor Isabel Morley,
remember who is an actual practicing clinical psychologist, her thoughts
on some of the tasks that are Australian experts have
the couples do, and she said, this, don't.
Speaker 7 (32:41):
Get me started on the therapists who participate in this,
because I feel like there are so many huge ethical
issues that I can't believe people do what they do
on these shows.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
One of the most I'd say fascinating because it's so
bizarre that they do that. But on Marriat at First Sight,
one of the first challenges the couples have to do,
which is second week of being married. So they've just
had the first dinner party, they've just met all the
other couples in the experiment, and then they go home
and the next day, each couple is given photos of
everyone in the experiment and they have to put them
(33:11):
in order of who they're most attracted to, from.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Like most to least.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
And in the most recent season here there's a man
called Ryan who's match with a girl called Jackie, and
Jackie is admittedly she's quite insecure that that's been made
obvious from the start, and then her husband he says, well,
I'm going to do this honestly, and he puts her
as the third most attractive. Then Letter says, maybe you
would have been fourth, and Jackie just keeps springing it
(33:37):
up and viewers keep going get over it, But like,
can you imagine being yeah, I would get over it.
I'd be fucking heartbroken.
Speaker 17 (33:45):
No.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
And that's what I think people mess up about these
shows when they are in them or watch them, is
that it is not an experiment in honesty, like this
is somebody she just married and is still getting to know.
They don't have a secure attachment to each other. They're
building a foundation. If they want to stay married, they
have to do the things that married couples do, which
is put each other first, prioritize each other's feelings, be
(34:09):
aware of how they're impacting each other. But because it's
a show, right, there's this idea that like they should
just do the experiment as it's intended. But these experiments
are not intended to create healthy, long lasting marriages. They're
intended to create entertainment, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
And I find it hilarious the justification of the relationship
experts about why they do each of these things, like, well,
this is designed to test their loyalty.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
It's like, no, it's not.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
It's designed to destroy the confidence of these people.
Speaker 7 (34:38):
Right, They're a week in, they have no loyalty, they
haven't built anything together.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yet, so why are John, mel and Alessandra happy to
go along with these things? I message each of the
experts individually on Thursday morning at ten forty six am
to see if any of them would like to chat
offer common or clarity to any of the things discussed
in this podcast. I did not receive a room apply for.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Many of them.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Instead, at nine for three am on Friday, I received
an email from Channel nine's head of publicity. In the email,
she stated, I understand that you have made contacts with
the experts from Married at First Sight. Please do not
contact directly and send all correspondents via Channel nine Publicity.
I then replied to that email, firstly by stating, thank
you for the email, as the podcast I'm working on
(35:24):
is specifically about the experts and questioning their integrity through
the issues. Dr Tricia Stratford repeatedly raised, which led to
her exit. I'd rather go to them directly, as my
emails via Channel nine often go un answered, and at
least this way I can be sure they received the
offer to respond. I then detailed all the questions I
had for the expert to Channel nine Publicity as they
(35:44):
asked me to, and again I received no response, which
is what happens pretty much every time I do put
a question to Channel nine, which is why I messaged
the experts directly. I then took inspiration from Channel nine's
flagship news program, a current affair show that Channel nine
describes says the People Show, where their team of investigative
journalists hold people accountable, usually by firing questions at them
(36:08):
on the street once they've refused to be a part
of whatever their investigations are. Having had zero response to
any of my messages and questions, I then approached John
as he left a lunch at a celebrity hotspot restaurant
and returned to his car in Sydney's Double Bay on
Friday at two thirty six pm. I initially approached John
as he entered the car park. I introduced myself from
(36:29):
the podcast, and he turned around and shook my hand
and greeted me by name, as he knows.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
Who I am.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
He then refused to answer any of my questions and
has also since accused me of harassment and being threatening,
which I strongly deny. As a journalist, I was asking John,
who remember is a public figure, what I believe were
very reasonable questions at a time when this is currently
both a police investigation and Safe Work New South Wales
government investigation into the show that he's been the main
(36:56):
star for ten years now. So for full transparency, will
now play you the full unedited audio of our entire exchange.
Hey John math spunny podcast?
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Mate? How are you doing a couple of questions?
Speaker 6 (37:11):
I'm not going to answer your questions, but I will
introduce myself.
Speaker 12 (37:13):
I am not going to answer more questions because I
feel like I've got things to do.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Do you ever feel ethically and morally compromise what you
do on that show?
Speaker 6 (37:23):
Do you know what?
Speaker 12 (37:24):
I'm not going to answer your questions, but what I
would suggest you do is you put them to nine.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
I have none of them replied to me, and I've
messaged you as well. You would you do that last night?
Is that right? Yes?
Speaker 6 (37:39):
I didn't receive anything.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Can you agree that the task I kind of designed
to just tell these couples apart?
Speaker 6 (37:46):
He's good, isn't he?
Speaker 12 (37:47):
But would you know I'm not going to would you
recommend a couple of comments across Australia?
Speaker 6 (37:52):
Are you watching me out there?
Speaker 4 (37:53):
I've been trying to speak to you, Is that right?
Speaker 13 (37:55):
No?
Speaker 4 (37:55):
One replies to me, why do you think that is?
Because no one has to answer these questions? Isn't this
why doctor Tricia left. I'm off to go home, but
to meet you so you don't want to speak?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
No, no, it Would you recommend couples across Australia kind
of go and squat partners for a week to strengthen
the relationships?
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Is that something you and your wife?
Speaker 5 (38:16):
John?
Speaker 6 (38:16):
Are you gonna come up stairs with me?
Speaker 4 (38:18):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (38:20):
Well, I'm gonna head to the post office thing.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Okay, we're gonna have a doubt together.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
Are you gonna come with me?
Speaker 4 (38:26):
You've got nothing you wish to say? Do you not
agree this season's crossed the line?
Speaker 12 (38:35):
I mean, I'm amazed if you're at your perseverance.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Well, no one's answering these questions, and I think this
this season has crossed they that's a you problem.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
That's a I think it's a your problem. What's happening
on the show. You must have been accused of enabling
abusive behavior. Anything to say to that?
Speaker 6 (38:55):
What else you got from me?
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Josh? Do you and your wife followed the touch you're
doing that? Would you go? Are you someone else for
a few days to strengthen the marge.
Speaker 6 (39:02):
Where else you going? Uh, Anthony, Anthony, can I come in?
Speaker 4 (39:07):
I'm yeah, I'm just playing arrest harassed. I'm answering your questions.
So John, You've got nothing to say.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Just for context here as you're only hearing the audio.
John turned around as I asked him the questions and
returned to the restaurant he'd just been dining at. He
then stepped inside and told a member of staff that
I believe he's friends with, that he was being harassed
by me, and he then sat at a table with
that member of staff laughing. I then asked John one
final question whilstood a few meters away on the street
(39:40):
on public Land, and as I did that, he proceeded
to get his phone out and film me. Hey John, John,
last question, is it the money or the fame where
you keep going against the principles of a psychologist?
Speaker 4 (39:53):
John? John? The money of the fame? No answer, am
I exactly? Hey John?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
You can send that to Channel nine and animal ask
them to reply to my emails. Nah, but this is
not gonna end well this year.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
John. You've pushed these people too far and you know it.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Trigger on and here that comment from me there was
in regard to the mental health of the participants and
how it will not end well. And as I keep
saying on this podcast, if the people behind this show
do not change their practices, there will be irreversible consequences,
which is echoed by every cast member I speak to,
who will fear somebody will take their own life as
a result of participating in this show. The member of staff,
(40:38):
who I assumed John is friends with, given how he
greeted him by first name and then sat with him
as he returned to the restaurant, then came out and
said to me, if I scream out again over the restaurant,
it's not going to be good, which I perceived as
a threat. And again, for full transparency, here is the
full unedited audio, starting exactly where that previous clip was cut.
(40:58):
I can speak to him though springing out over the
restaurant to get.
Speaker 6 (41:03):
Out of the restaurants.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Sorry, did you just froighten me?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
And then after that I just went home and realized
these experts will never.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
Answer questions like this.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
I also want to state that I don't like doing
things like that.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
Some journalists love it.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
The Channel nine journals on a current affair, literally chasing
people down streets every day. Seem to love it, but
I don't. It's just not really my personality. And I
was rattled for the rest of the day after that,
and I didn't.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
Sleep that night thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
But I do think questions like that need to be
asked to people like John, and now is the time
with everything that's happening surrounding the show. Even earlier this week,
I had a cast member from the current season sobbing
to me on the phone, telling me the medication there
now taking just to get through the impact being on
that show has had in them. Also last month, remember
when I sat down with Marena. She told me how
(41:52):
she and two other cast members came close to self
harming during filming as it all became too much. And
a show that's meant to entertainers and help strangers find
love just shouldn't lead to things like this. And again,
that's why I felt it was important to put those
questions to John, And that's why I'm doing this on
this podcast, because, as I've said a million times now,
(42:13):
if they do not change their practices behind the scenes,
someone will take.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Their own life.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
That sounds horrible, but it's the honest reality, and all
the press I see the experts doing seems to be
just either the nine website, Channel nines, Today's Show and
all these things where no one will push them and
ask anything important.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Anyway, that's all I've got for now.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Thank you for listening, and make sure you're subscribed to
the Mass Funny podcast. There'll be more spoilers and stories
throughout the week as usual, and Part three of this
investigation will likely be next Sunday. One last thing as well,
if you're able to give the podcast a rating on
whatever app you're listening to it on. I'd really appreciate
that and it actually helps me out massively. Have a
nice week everyone, Goodbye,
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