In this introductory episode of the Money Advice Liaison Group (MALG) podcast, host Helen Gill of Engage Comms is joined by MALG CEO Bob Winnington to discuss what MALG is all about, why we’re bringing you this podcast, what you can expect from it and why, in 2024, we need game-changing solutions to 'improving the lives of people in debt' more than ever.
Former City trader and ‘real world’ economist Gary Stevenson said in one of his recent youtube videos that he thinks “the game is rigged” for low income households in the current economy. We’ll be talking about how MALG Members and others can work collaboratively to overcome the hurdles put in place by the pandemic and the cost of living crisis to building financial resilience for all, as we head into 2025 and beyond.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Money Advice Liaison Group podcast,
working together to improve the lives of people in debt.
I'm Helen Gill, Founding Director of Marketing Communications Consultancy Engage Comms
and host of the MALG podcast.
If you work in any capacity across the debt landscape in the UK,
listen in during your lunch break, on your commute, or whenever you have some
(00:20):
downtime for inspiring insights into how collaboration and working smarter can
overcome the barriers to a fairer, better system for those in financial difficulty.
In this introductory episode, I'm joined by MALG CEO Bob Winnington to discuss
what MALG is all about, why we're bringing you this podcast,
and what you can expect from it, plus why, in 2024,
we need game-changing solutions to improving the lives of people in debt more than ever.
(00:44):
Former city trader and real-world economist Gary Stevenson said in one of his
recent YouTube videos that he thinks
"the game is rigged" for low-income households in the current economy.
Economy we'll be talking about how MALG members and others can work collaboratively
to overcome the hurdles put in place by the pandemic and the cost of living
crisis to build financial resilience for all as we head into 2025 and beyond.
(01:05):
So Bob before we get into the nitty-gritty for those listening who don't already
know about Money Advice Liaison Group and what you do can you give us a bit of an intro to MALG?
Yeah thanks Helen. MALG was originally established in In 1987,
as a forum for improving communication between debt advisors and creditors.
Since then, it's widened its scope and reached to become a collaborative network
(01:27):
of organisations and professionals from across the whole spectrum of financial capability,
lending, public sector, advice, collections, enforcement, and beyond.
Everything we do is centred around our aim of working together to improve the lives of people in debt.
And as MALG, we do that by facilitating knowledge exchange, debate and discussion
(01:50):
on current issues facing the sector and those in financial difficulty it serves.
Yeah, having worked with MALG over the last seven or so years,
it's been amazing to see how it's developed and grown into something that's
actually now business critical to so many organisations and individuals
from across such a broad spectrum of areas that impact the lives of people in debt.
(02:13):
A really good example of MALG in action is the Friday Forum. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Yeah, sure. The Friday Forum really kicked off at the beginning of the COVID lockdown in March 2020.
We could see the way that the wind was blowing and
we had done some Zoom sessions within the the
organisation but we saw an opportunity
(02:34):
to bring together our core
offering of face-to-face meetings and events going and
to have to be put on hold and what we felt is
that we needed to do something a bit different
to bring people together to collaborate and to have conversations between advisors
and creditors and others in the debt landscape as things were starting to come
(02:56):
to a standstill and to the detriment of customers that were suddenly going to
be put into a very difficult position due to the impact of the pandemic.
So we acted quickly. The announcement of the lockdown came on Monday the 23rd
of March and we went live with the first Friday Forum on Friday the 27th of March 2020.
(03:17):
It was an hour-long informal drop-in discussion session to give people the opportunity
to come together and discuss what was unfolding in real time.
And we really intended this to be a quick fix, a short-term solution.
Rather than the opportunities that face-to-face meetings, which had suddenly
disappeared, we felt this was a real opportunity to kickstart those discussions
(03:41):
at a critical time for a lot of organisations.
Personally, I thought it would last about six or seven weeks, but it carried on.
And now we moved in 2021 to a fortnightly Friday Forum session,
and we are still running them today day every two weeks, which is fantastic.
We are. And I remember so vividly us coming up with the idea in what felt
(04:06):
at the time like this crisis situation.
It was an existential crisis for Malg because of our offering was face-to-face events.
But for the people in the sector, it was massive.
People were in more financial difficulty than potentially they'd been before. It was unprecedented.
And yet advisors couldn't contact creditors
(04:26):
in the same way contact centres were working from home
it was really you know a very
difficult time but we never imagined it
would turn into what it is now absolutely and
what we did was just to provide that hour on
a Friday morning for people to come along. There was
no agenda we wanted people to come to the
(04:47):
table and say this is happening that's
happening these are problems that we're facing who
can help me how do I contact a debt advisor
how do I contact a creditor and it was
a real opportunity for people to share that information and
if they had challenges and problems then there inevitably would
be somebody on the call who would be able to answer that and sometimes it was
(05:10):
just a matter of sharing frustrations and and letting some some difficult issues
amongst a lot of like-minded individuals and we were getting right at that early
stages of the Friday Forum,
60, 70, 80 people along.
And even now, we're getting 40, 50 people along.
And the thing that I really value is not just the people who are our regular attendees.
(05:35):
But almost every Friday session, we get somebody new who's coming along,
which is fantastic, because they get an opportunity to hear what's going on
and also to ask some questions, which they may have been storing up for a while
and just wanted to air and get off their chest.
Yeah. And I think it's testament to how valuable it is to members that we are
(05:57):
still going with it now in a time where there is a bit of event fatigue.
You know, people are very busy.
There's a whole calendar of physical and virtual events.
But there's something really special and different about Malg.
You know, I work with a lot of other clients in the sector and been to a lot
of industry events in this sector and others and
(06:17):
I remember when I first started working with Malg, but even more so now,
this sort of magic formula where, you know, you can imagine other organisations
running this open agenda, drop in, come on screen for an hour and just a tumbleweed
rolling around and people going, oh, you know, this is a waste of my time.
But people know with Malg and we see
(06:38):
this with the Friday Forum you know we'll have sessions where you Heidi
and I will be sort of looking at our watches thinking oh it's 10.06 and no nothing's
really kicked off and then by 10.15 we're into this conversation that you could
never have predicted about insurance renewals or insolvency practitioners and
all of a sudden it gets to 10.59 and we're having to say, sorry, guys, can you wrap it up?
(07:01):
And it is that magic formula.
And I think what's great about Malg is conversations do often get quite heated
because we've got people with polar opposite views.
You know, we're not an echo chamber at Malg, We're not just speaking to one bit of the sector.
We are talking to people across the whole debt landscape. And inevitably,
those conversations will be difficult because what debt
(07:24):
advisors are seeing with their clients day to day versus
what lenders and enforcement agents and collection
firms think is happening is very different
and those polar opposite opinions mean that we can
get some heated conversations you know we
can get some difficult conversations but what we always get is constructive
conversations and I think it's really important that we just allow that free-flowing
(07:49):
conversation to happen and often we even get the sort of joint action
and the outcomes, which is exactly what we're looking for.
Why do you think it is that Malg has this magic formula? What's your secret, Bob?
I wish I knew. I think in many ways, Helen, it's down to the fact that we have
no commercial, political or regulatory agenda.
(08:11):
And basically, we've fostered the culture of non-judgmental,
open and honest discussion.
Everybody's voice is important. And it's great to hear from people who very
rarely actually come along to the sessions and very rarely speak at the sessions
because they will have something of value to share with everybody.
No one's afraid to confront the issues head on as everyone's working towards
(08:34):
the same goal, which of course is about improving the lives of people in debt.
So speaking of improving the lives of people in debt,
the outlook does feel pretty bleak at the the moment you know the conversations
we have through malg and the stuff that we hear people saying and in terms of
the ability of ordinary working people to build their financial resilience.
(08:55):
Seems more difficult now than it has ever been in a lot of ways. What do
you think is it all doom and gloom or is there a light at the end of the tunnel?
Well I think a lot of people will know my background is in banking I was in
banking for 30 years and certainly I saw the the challenges and
the economic turbulence during the 80s and 90s, and even into the noughties as well.
(09:19):
And there were many financial shockwaves during those decades.
And so what I would say, you know, what we're seeing at the moment isn't necessarily new or unexpected.
It's just a new derivation of things that have happened in the past.
And with the lockdown, with the pandemic, with the cost of living crisis,
with the energy crisis, it's almost created a perfect storm.
(09:42):
And the situation for people on low income is very uncertain and gloomy at the moment.
So I can see why there isn't a huge amount of hope for the future.
But what I think we need to do is to look at a fairer, more inclusive,
a more robust way of working and collaborative way of working.
(10:02):
So when any further economic downturns do hit, it's not the most vulnerable
in society that feel it the most.
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I think we can be positive about from my
sort of years of working in this sector is that the taboo around talking about
your personal finances is starting to break down and we're starting to see,
(10:27):
you know, particularly younger generations really seeing it as normal to reach out, get help.
And that's something that in this sector has been a a big barrier to real change for a long time.
So what do you think about that in terms of the potential for the future,
looking brighter, not just for younger generations, but for everybody,
(10:49):
breaking down those taboos, having those conversations, people reaching out for help?
Well, I think one thing that's become quite clear to me is that there's a huge
amount of information that's out there.
There's some valuable insight that's provided by many organisations and
there's an increasing understanding of all
the different links in the chain to know what the knock-on impact on the customer
(11:11):
later down the line can be and that's why we strive with MALG to give our
members from across the whole debt landscape space to air their concerns and
views with each other and then once they've got that off their chest look to
see what can be practically done.
A good example of that is the FCA's consumer duty regulations
(11:31):
highlights the progress that has taken place in this area to ensure that everyone
from lenders to advisors have accountability across the customer journey rather
than working in silos and passing the buck down the line.
Whether it will work like that in practice over the long term remains to be
seen, but the outcomes-based approach is certainly a step in the right direction.
(11:53):
Certainly my background in the Institute of Customer Service,
where the the customer is at the forefront of everything that's undertaken,
is very much aligned to that.
And so I support that approach wholeheartedly.
Now, you mentioned the struggles younger generations are facing before,
and it's something that we did focus on in last year's MALG conference.
(12:14):
We had a session on Generation Z Debt, which was a fresh topic that we brought
to the table and gathered a lot of interest.
And it was particularly popular with a complete range of people from both the
creditor and the advisory sectors.
And it was certainly eye-opening for me as well, as I know it was for those
(12:35):
people who attended the session.
It really demonstrated how we need to adapt to how younger people behave,
where they get their information from, what issues they're facing as a generation
growing up in the context of economic turbulence,
and for one of the first times in history, a feeling that they are worse off
than their parents were.
Yes, it was really fascinating at last year's conference to have those sessions
(12:59):
on both Gen Z and the older generations and hear about what's happening at both ends of the spectrum.
In such a fast-paced, rapidly changing environment, you can see why it's so
important that organisations are working closely together to listen to the needs
of different generations and come up with collaborative solutions tailored to them.
Yeah, it's not just different generations though. It's different demographics
(13:22):
in terms of things like household income, geographical location, ethnicity and gender.
It's easy for financial institutions, politicians, and government agencies to sit making decisions.
But when you hear about what is really happening to real people on the ground,
it puts things into perspective.
(13:42):
For me, it's amazing how badly wrong seemingly sensible policies and practices can go.
You've really got to take into account individual circumstances to understand
everything from an individual's physical and mental health to their financial
and digital literacy to see what impact those decisions can have on them.
(14:02):
It's much more than just income and
expenditure in fact one of the biggest success stories
out of MALG is how we've introduced a number of our members to
the illegal money lending team in england and
spread the word about their stop loan sharks campaign is a classic example
of where well-meaning regulation to stamp out high interest payday loans has
(14:24):
pushed desperate people into other forms of alternative lending which are even
less savoury can make them even more all vulnerable and plunge them into even more debt.
Loan sharks have traditionally been one of the biggest taboo subjects in the
world of debt. So shedding light on this has been a real game changer.
And I know a lot of our member organisations have been collaborating with the
(14:47):
illegal money lending team to actually help their staff understand the pitfalls
that individuals can fall into.
Yeah, since you mentioned taboos, Bob, another big taboo subject when it comes
to money has traditionally been around benefits.
And we've recently heard a lot from Malg member policy in practice about the
23 billion of support that's going unclaimed.
(15:10):
Progress is being made in that area too, though, isn't it? Yeah,
in fact, we're very proud of that.
As a result of us bringing them together at the last MALG conference,
Policy in Practice has partnered with both Lightning Reach and British Gas Energy
Trust to integrate their tools into the benefits calculator,
which is having a big impact.
It's a perfect example of collaboration in action. And in fact,
(15:32):
Deven, the CEO of Policy in Practice, spoke at our recent national members meeting,
highlighting the real benefits of collaboration.
And he is a very strong advocate of that, which is music to my ears.
And it does feel like the tide is changing then, doesn't it,
in terms of breaking down these taboos, younger people being able to talk about
(15:54):
their finances more, generally just people being more open about their money.
What about social media?
Obviously, advice in the social media age can be good and bad.
How do you think that comes into play?
I think there's one thing that younger generations can be hopeful about when
it comes to their finances, is that the tide seems to be finally changing when
(16:16):
it comes to conversations about money.
And this, of course, can come with its downside in terms of things like unsolicited
poor advice on social media.
But in general, it seems to be a positive movement towards improved financial
capability from a younger age and less stigma around coming forward to help
with finances, which can only be a good thing.
It's something that previous generations in this country perhaps haven't been able to master.
(16:41):
Yeah, it just goes to show, doesn't it, how dialogue is so important and that
works for both sides of the chain.
You know, I first came into this sector sort of just over 10 years ago,
working in the world of collections and I've seen how that's really changed
in terms of the business model and that recognition that doing the right thing
by the customer and opening the dialogue with the customer actually also has commercial benefits.
(17:05):
It's not just ethical, you know, Obviously, they need to be ethical and they
are a lot more than they used to be.
But it's that idea that something like debt collection, for example,
is actually about dialogue. It's about communications.
And where in the past, people didn't want to contact these organisations and
(17:26):
they buried their head in the sand, I think we are making really positive steps
towards opening up the conversation.
And that's not just something we do through MALG, it is happening wider.
And that's something we really want to do with this podcast, isn't it?
Which is to take the conversations that we're having at MALG and open them up to a wider audience,
(17:46):
you know, look outside the sector even to what can we learn about collaboration,
working together, improving people's lives from other areas,
whether that's physical health or different areas of life.
So can we give our listeners a bit of a taster of things to come and let them
know what come they expect from the MALG podcast going forward?
(18:06):
Yeah, absolutely, Helen. I think the first thing I would say on that is that
this isn't going to be a podcast just for podcasts sake.
People who know me well will know I'm not one to just jump on the bandwagon.
We've decided to do this to take our role as a facilitator of information.
Conversations about money advice and debt to
the next level not only for the benefit of our members
(18:28):
but to reach a wider audience so that we can get even
more people from across an even broader spectrum involved
and it just won't be helen and i nattering
away for half an hour every month we're going to line up some fantastic guests
to talk about the latest topics and share insights to go over and above the
type of things that we cover usually at MALG meetings but we want to to respond
(18:52):
to what our listeners want and covering issues that they're most interested in.
Basically, we'll have plenty of opportunity to dive deeper into what's happening
in the debt landscape and have meaningful and practical discussions about what
can be done to bring about real lasting change.
Yeah, and I think that's so important, isn't it, Bob? Because one of the bits
(19:12):
of feedback we do get from MALG members at the conference and even on the Friday Forum is,
there isn't enough time to get into these topics and we could talk all day about
them and they're so important.
So we're just really trying to find other mediums, other ways of getting these
conversations going and giving people the opportunity to get on top of the issues
(19:36):
that they're facing and in real time so that they can be tackled as quickly as possible.
We're not always waiting for the next big policy change.
Sometimes as we've seen on the Malg Friday there's very simple things that can
be done to improve people's lives and get over the hurdles that we're facing.
So you mentioned bringing guests onto the podcast. It's not just going to be
everybody getting bored of mine and your voices.
(19:58):
So who can we expect to hear from and on what sorts of subjects?
I've got a very open mind around that. We're largely dependent on what issues are the most pressing.
Again, I put a lot of stall in our members, what their views are on certain topics.
They're the people who will be driving the agenda on this. And we'll pick up
on some themes from the Friday Forum that we've touched on.
(20:21):
And we'll also be reaching outside the existing MALG network to identify topics
and guests that can shed light on what's happening in the wider world and draw
on best practice from other sectors to inform how we can improve the lives of people in debt.
Certainly a topic that I know will feature heavily in the first few episodes
will be financial resilience because that's top of the agenda at the moment
(20:43):
and that's why that is the overarching theme for the MALG conference in Leeds on the 7th of November.
Oh, thanks for the shameless plug there, Bob. Well, I know I'm excited to get
going and hopefully this introductory pilot episode has given the listeners
a taste of things to come.
Don't forget to follow, like and subscribe to support us and help get the podcast
(21:03):
off the ground and visit www.malg.org.uk forward slash podcast to find out more
and get direct access to all our future episodes. Thanks so much for listening.
Yes, thanks for listening. And I think my final comments would be,
don't just keep turning, you know, up and listening into our podcast,
(21:23):
but actually please share your thoughts, your ideas about what you would like to hear.
And please share the podcast as well, because I think we've built up a community
in Malg, and I'm very proud of that.
And it's something that we can develop to your benefit as members,
but also to help the whole sector to improve the lives of people in debt.
Hello and welcome to the Money Advice Liaison Group podcast,
working together to improve the lives of people in debt.
I'm Helen Gill, Founding Director of Marketing Communications Consultancy Engage Comms
and host of the MALG podcast.
If you work in any capacity across the debt landscape in the UK,
listen in during your lunch break, on your commute, or whenever you have some
(00:20):
downtime for inspiring insights into how collaboration and working smarter can
overcome the barriers to a fairer, better system for those in financial difficulty.
In this introductory episode, I'm joined by MALG CEO Bob Winnington to discuss
what MALG is all about, why we're bringing you this podcast,
and what you can expect from it, plus why, in 2024,
we need game-changing solutions to improving the lives of people in debt more than ever.
(00:44):
Former city trader and real-world economist Gary Stevenson said in one of his
recent YouTube videos that he thinks
"the game is rigged" for low-income households in the current economy.
Economy we'll be talking about how MALG members and others can work collaboratively
to overcome the hurdles put in place by the pandemic and the cost of living
crisis to build financial resilience for all as we head into 2025 and beyond.
(01:05):
So Bob before we get into the nitty-gritty for those listening who don't already
know about Money Advice Liaison Group and what you do can you give us a bit of an intro to MALG?
Yeah thanks Helen. MALG was originally established in In 1987,
as a forum for improving communication between debt advisors and creditors.
Since then, it's widened its scope and reached to become a collaborative network
(01:27):
of organisations and professionals from across the whole spectrum of financial capability,
lending, public sector, advice, collections, enforcement, and beyond.
Everything we do is centred around our aim of working together to improve the lives of people in debt.
And as MALG, we do that by facilitating knowledge exchange, debate and discussion
(01:50):
on current issues facing the sector and those in financial difficulty it serves.
Yeah, having worked with MALG over the last seven or so years,
it's been amazing to see how it's developed and grown into something that's
actually now business critical to so many organisations and individuals
from across such a broad spectrum of areas that impact the lives of people in debt.
(02:13):
A really good example of MALG in action is the Friday Forum. Can you tell us a bit about that?
Yeah, sure. The Friday Forum really kicked off at the beginning of the COVID lockdown in March 2020.
We could see the way that the wind was blowing and
we had done some Zoom sessions within the the
organisation but we saw an opportunity
(02:34):
to bring together our core
offering of face-to-face meetings and events going and
to have to be put on hold and what we felt is
that we needed to do something a bit different
to bring people together to collaborate and to have conversations between advisors
and creditors and others in the debt landscape as things were starting to come
(02:56):
to a standstill and to the detriment of customers that were suddenly going to
be put into a very difficult position due to the impact of the pandemic.
So we acted quickly. The announcement of the lockdown came on Monday the 23rd
of March and we went live with the first Friday Forum on Friday the 27th of March 2020.
(03:17):
It was an hour-long informal drop-in discussion session to give people the opportunity
to come together and discuss what was unfolding in real time.
And we really intended this to be a quick fix, a short-term solution.
Rather than the opportunities that face-to-face meetings, which had suddenly
disappeared, we felt this was a real opportunity to kickstart those discussions
(03:41):
at a critical time for a lot of organisations.
Personally, I thought it would last about six or seven weeks, but it carried on.
And now we moved in 2021 to a fortnightly Friday Forum session,
and we are still running them today day every two weeks, which is fantastic.
We are. And I remember so vividly us coming up with the idea in what felt
(04:06):
at the time like this crisis situation.
It was an existential crisis for Malg because of our offering was face-to-face events.
But for the people in the sector, it was massive.
People were in more financial difficulty than potentially they'd been before. It was unprecedented.
And yet advisors couldn't contact creditors
(04:26):
in the same way contact centres were working from home
it was really you know a very
difficult time but we never imagined it
would turn into what it is now absolutely and
what we did was just to provide that hour on
a Friday morning for people to come along. There was
no agenda we wanted people to come to the
(04:47):
table and say this is happening that's
happening these are problems that we're facing who
can help me how do I contact a debt advisor
how do I contact a creditor and it was
a real opportunity for people to share that information and
if they had challenges and problems then there inevitably would
be somebody on the call who would be able to answer that and sometimes it was
(05:10):
just a matter of sharing frustrations and and letting some some difficult issues
amongst a lot of like-minded individuals and we were getting right at that early
stages of the Friday Forum,
60, 70, 80 people along.
And even now, we're getting 40, 50 people along.
And the thing that I really value is not just the people who are our regular attendees.
(05:35):
But almost every Friday session, we get somebody new who's coming along,
which is fantastic, because they get an opportunity to hear what's going on
and also to ask some questions, which they may have been storing up for a while
and just wanted to air and get off their chest.
Yeah. And I think it's testament to how valuable it is to members that we are
(05:57):
still going with it now in a time where there is a bit of event fatigue.
You know, people are very busy.
There's a whole calendar of physical and virtual events.
But there's something really special and different about Malg.
You know, I work with a lot of other clients in the sector and been to a lot
of industry events in this sector and others and
(06:17):
I remember when I first started working with Malg, but even more so now,
this sort of magic formula where, you know, you can imagine other organisations
running this open agenda, drop in, come on screen for an hour and just a tumbleweed
rolling around and people going, oh, you know, this is a waste of my time.
But people know with Malg and we see
(06:38):
this with the Friday Forum you know we'll have sessions where you Heidi
and I will be sort of looking at our watches thinking oh it's 10.06 and no nothing's
really kicked off and then by 10.15 we're into this conversation that you could
never have predicted about insurance renewals or insolvency practitioners and
all of a sudden it gets to 10.59 and we're having to say, sorry, guys, can you wrap it up?
(07:01):
And it is that magic formula.
And I think what's great about Malg is conversations do often get quite heated
because we've got people with polar opposite views.
You know, we're not an echo chamber at Malg, We're not just speaking to one bit of the sector.
We are talking to people across the whole debt landscape. And inevitably,
those conversations will be difficult because what debt
(07:24):
advisors are seeing with their clients day to day versus
what lenders and enforcement agents and collection
firms think is happening is very different
and those polar opposite opinions mean that we can
get some heated conversations you know we
can get some difficult conversations but what we always get is constructive
conversations and I think it's really important that we just allow that free-flowing
(07:49):
conversation to happen and often we even get the sort of joint action
and the outcomes, which is exactly what we're looking for.
Why do you think it is that Malg has this magic formula? What's your secret, Bob?
I wish I knew. I think in many ways, Helen, it's down to the fact that we have
no commercial, political or regulatory agenda.
(08:11):
And basically, we've fostered the culture of non-judgmental,
open and honest discussion.
Everybody's voice is important. And it's great to hear from people who very
rarely actually come along to the sessions and very rarely speak at the sessions
because they will have something of value to share with everybody.
No one's afraid to confront the issues head on as everyone's working towards
(08:34):
the same goal, which of course is about improving the lives of people in debt.
So speaking of improving the lives of people in debt,
the outlook does feel pretty bleak at the the moment you know the conversations
we have through malg and the stuff that we hear people saying and in terms of
the ability of ordinary working people to build their financial resilience.
(08:55):
Seems more difficult now than it has ever been in a lot of ways. What do
you think is it all doom and gloom or is there a light at the end of the tunnel?
Well I think a lot of people will know my background is in banking I was in
banking for 30 years and certainly I saw the the challenges and
the economic turbulence during the 80s and 90s, and even into the noughties as well.
(09:19):
And there were many financial shockwaves during those decades.
And so what I would say, you know, what we're seeing at the moment isn't necessarily new or unexpected.
It's just a new derivation of things that have happened in the past.
And with the lockdown, with the pandemic, with the cost of living crisis,
with the energy crisis, it's almost created a perfect storm.
(09:42):
And the situation for people on low income is very uncertain and gloomy at the moment.
So I can see why there isn't a huge amount of hope for the future.
But what I think we need to do is to look at a fairer, more inclusive,
a more robust way of working and collaborative way of working.
(10:02):
So when any further economic downturns do hit, it's not the most vulnerable
in society that feel it the most.
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I think we can be positive about from my
sort of years of working in this sector is that the taboo around talking about
your personal finances is starting to break down and we're starting to see,
(10:27):
you know, particularly younger generations really seeing it as normal to reach out, get help.
And that's something that in this sector has been a a big barrier to real change for a long time.
So what do you think about that in terms of the potential for the future,
looking brighter, not just for younger generations, but for everybody,
(10:49):
breaking down those taboos, having those conversations, people reaching out for help?
Well, I think one thing that's become quite clear to me is that there's a huge
amount of information that's out there.
There's some valuable insight that's provided by many organisations and
there's an increasing understanding of all
the different links in the chain to know what the knock-on impact on the customer
(11:11):
later down the line can be and that's why we strive with MALG to give our
members from across the whole debt landscape space to air their concerns and
views with each other and then once they've got that off their chest look to
see what can be practically done.
A good example of that is the FCA's consumer duty regulations
(11:31):
highlights the progress that has taken place in this area to ensure that everyone
from lenders to advisors have accountability across the customer journey rather
than working in silos and passing the buck down the line.
Whether it will work like that in practice over the long term remains to be
seen, but the outcomes-based approach is certainly a step in the right direction.
(11:53):
Certainly my background in the Institute of Customer Service,
where the the customer is at the forefront of everything that's undertaken,
is very much aligned to that.
And so I support that approach wholeheartedly.
Now, you mentioned the struggles younger generations are facing before,
and it's something that we did focus on in last year's MALG conference.
(12:14):
We had a session on Generation Z Debt, which was a fresh topic that we brought
to the table and gathered a lot of interest.
And it was particularly popular with a complete range of people from both the
creditor and the advisory sectors.
And it was certainly eye-opening for me as well, as I know it was for those
(12:35):
people who attended the session.
It really demonstrated how we need to adapt to how younger people behave,
where they get their information from, what issues they're facing as a generation
growing up in the context of economic turbulence,
and for one of the first times in history, a feeling that they are worse off
than their parents were.
Yes, it was really fascinating at last year's conference to have those sessions
(12:59):
on both Gen Z and the older generations and hear about what's happening at both ends of the spectrum.
In such a fast-paced, rapidly changing environment, you can see why it's so
important that organisations are working closely together to listen to the needs
of different generations and come up with collaborative solutions tailored to them.
Yeah, it's not just different generations though. It's different demographics
(13:22):
in terms of things like household income, geographical location, ethnicity and gender.
It's easy for financial institutions, politicians, and government agencies to sit making decisions.
But when you hear about what is really happening to real people on the ground,
it puts things into perspective.
(13:42):
For me, it's amazing how badly wrong seemingly sensible policies and practices can go.
You've really got to take into account individual circumstances to understand
everything from an individual's physical and mental health to their financial
and digital literacy to see what impact those decisions can have on them.
(14:02):
It's much more than just income and
expenditure in fact one of the biggest success stories
out of MALG is how we've introduced a number of our members to
the illegal money lending team in england and
spread the word about their stop loan sharks campaign is a classic example
of where well-meaning regulation to stamp out high interest payday loans has
(14:24):
pushed desperate people into other forms of alternative lending which are even
less savoury can make them even more all vulnerable and plunge them into even more debt.
Loan sharks have traditionally been one of the biggest taboo subjects in the
world of debt. So shedding light on this has been a real game changer.
And I know a lot of our member organisations have been collaborating with the
(14:47):
illegal money lending team to actually help their staff understand the pitfalls
that individuals can fall into.
Yeah, since you mentioned taboos, Bob, another big taboo subject when it comes
to money has traditionally been around benefits.
And we've recently heard a lot from Malg member policy in practice about the
23 billion of support that's going unclaimed.
(15:10):
Progress is being made in that area too, though, isn't it? Yeah,
in fact, we're very proud of that.
As a result of us bringing them together at the last MALG conference,
Policy in Practice has partnered with both Lightning Reach and British Gas Energy
Trust to integrate their tools into the benefits calculator,
which is having a big impact.
It's a perfect example of collaboration in action. And in fact,
(15:32):
Deven, the CEO of Policy in Practice, spoke at our recent national members meeting,
highlighting the real benefits of collaboration.
And he is a very strong advocate of that, which is music to my ears.
And it does feel like the tide is changing then, doesn't it,
in terms of breaking down these taboos, younger people being able to talk about
(15:54):
their finances more, generally just people being more open about their money.
What about social media?
Obviously, advice in the social media age can be good and bad.
How do you think that comes into play?
I think there's one thing that younger generations can be hopeful about when
it comes to their finances, is that the tide seems to be finally changing when
(16:16):
it comes to conversations about money.
And this, of course, can come with its downside in terms of things like unsolicited
poor advice on social media.
But in general, it seems to be a positive movement towards improved financial
capability from a younger age and less stigma around coming forward to help
with finances, which can only be a good thing.
It's something that previous generations in this country perhaps haven't been able to master.
(16:41):
Yeah, it just goes to show, doesn't it, how dialogue is so important and that
works for both sides of the chain.
You know, I first came into this sector sort of just over 10 years ago,
working in the world of collections and I've seen how that's really changed
in terms of the business model and that recognition that doing the right thing
by the customer and opening the dialogue with the customer actually also has commercial benefits.
(17:05):
It's not just ethical, you know, Obviously, they need to be ethical and they
are a lot more than they used to be.
But it's that idea that something like debt collection, for example,
is actually about dialogue. It's about communications.
And where in the past, people didn't want to contact these organisations and
(17:26):
they buried their head in the sand, I think we are making really positive steps
towards opening up the conversation.
And that's not just something we do through MALG, it is happening wider.
And that's something we really want to do with this podcast, isn't it?
Which is to take the conversations that we're having at MALG and open them up to a wider audience,
(17:46):
you know, look outside the sector even to what can we learn about collaboration,
working together, improving people's lives from other areas,
whether that's physical health or different areas of life.
So can we give our listeners a bit of a taster of things to come and let them
know what come they expect from the MALG podcast going forward?
(18:06):
Yeah, absolutely, Helen. I think the first thing I would say on that is that
this isn't going to be a podcast just for podcasts sake.
People who know me well will know I'm not one to just jump on the bandwagon.
We've decided to do this to take our role as a facilitator of information.
Conversations about money advice and debt to
the next level not only for the benefit of our members
(18:28):
but to reach a wider audience so that we can get even
more people from across an even broader spectrum involved
and it just won't be helen and i nattering
away for half an hour every month we're going to line up some fantastic guests
to talk about the latest topics and share insights to go over and above the
type of things that we cover usually at MALG meetings but we want to to respond
(18:52):
to what our listeners want and covering issues that they're most interested in.
Basically, we'll have plenty of opportunity to dive deeper into what's happening
in the debt landscape and have meaningful and practical discussions about what
can be done to bring about real lasting change.
Yeah, and I think that's so important, isn't it, Bob? Because one of the bits
(19:12):
of feedback we do get from MALG members at the conference and even on the Friday Forum is,
there isn't enough time to get into these topics and we could talk all day about
them and they're so important.
So we're just really trying to find other mediums, other ways of getting these
conversations going and giving people the opportunity to get on top of the issues
(19:36):
that they're facing and in real time so that they can be tackled as quickly as possible.
We're not always waiting for the next big policy change.
Sometimes as we've seen on the Malg Friday there's very simple things that can
be done to improve people's lives and get over the hurdles that we're facing.
So you mentioned bringing guests onto the podcast. It's not just going to be
everybody getting bored of mine and your voices.
(19:58):
So who can we expect to hear from and on what sorts of subjects?
I've got a very open mind around that. We're largely dependent on what issues are the most pressing.
Again, I put a lot of stall in our members, what their views are on certain topics.
They're the people who will be driving the agenda on this. And we'll pick up
on some themes from the Friday Forum that we've touched on.
(20:21):
And we'll also be reaching outside the existing MALG network to identify topics
and guests that can shed light on what's happening in the wider world and draw
on best practice from other sectors to inform how we can improve the lives of people in debt.
Certainly a topic that I know will feature heavily in the first few episodes
will be financial resilience because that's top of the agenda at the moment
(20:43):
and that's why that is the overarching theme for the MALG conference in Leeds on the 7th of November.
Oh, thanks for the shameless plug there, Bob. Well, I know I'm excited to get
going and hopefully this introductory pilot episode has given the listeners
a taste of things to come.
Don't forget to follow, like and subscribe to support us and help get the podcast
(21:03):
off the ground and visit www.malg.org.uk forward slash podcast to find out more
and get direct access to all our future episodes. Thanks so much for listening.
Yes, thanks for listening. And I think my final comments would be,
don't just keep turning, you know, up and listening into our podcast,
(21:23):
but actually please share your thoughts, your ideas about what you would like to hear.
And please share the podcast as well, because I think we've built up a community
in Malg, and I'm very proud of that.
And it's something that we can develop to your benefit as members,
but also to help the whole sector to improve the lives of people in debt.
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