March 28, 2025 • 34 mins
In 1728, pale young women arrived in New Orleans with coffin-shaped trunks. Days later, bodies drained of blood appeared throughout the city. Discover why the Vatican keeps the Ursuline Convent's third floor permanently sealed and locals won't walk past after midnight. From historical records to modern vampire encounters, uncover how these mysterious women birthed New Orleans' vampire legends and why recent evidence suggests the danger isn't mere folklore.
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(00:16):
Strange mysteries, unexplained phenomena.
And the shadows in between.
This is The InBetween Official Podcastwith your host,
Carol Ann!
New Orleans.
1728.
A ship arrives in the dark of nightcarrying young women with skin so pale
(00:39):
it seems translucent,and each clutching a coffin shaped trunk.
Days later, the first body appears,completely drained of blood.
In this episode, we'llanswer the question of why the locals
still won't walk pastthe Ursuline Convent after midnight,
and why the Vatican keeps its third floorpermanently sealed.
(01:03):
I'm Carol Ann,and welcome to The InBetween.
don't.
The year is 1728,
in the relatively new cityof New Orleans, in French held territory.
New Orleans has a decent sized population.
(01:24):
Problem is, they're all men.
And pretty rowdy ones at that.
So the king of France, desperateto get a real colony going,
sends over a group of young womenas potential brides for the men.
The plan is that the girls would marrythe residents of the colony,
start families,not only to settle down the current
bad boy population, but also to kick
(01:47):
start the colony population.
As the women step off the boatafter three months at sea,
the men are not impressed.
The girls look anemic and sickly as they
file out from below deck and off the ship.
The plan is for them to be shelteredand protected by the Ursuline nuns,
(02:08):
a local convent, until suitablemarriage matches can be made.
So the girls, each having a large, heavytrunk or casket
filled with all their worldly possessionsand anything else
they need to start a new lifeand a new family
are taken to the convent,and their trunks are taken
to the building'sthird floor attic for safekeeping.
(02:31):
The nuns are toldthat the trunks are to remain closed
until each girl is married.
But it doesn't take long before strangethings start happening around the city.
People go missing.
Others are found drained of blood.
But the Holy Spirit must have beenwhispering in the ears of the nuns
because they decide to go check outthose trunks sitting up in their attic.
(02:55):
They march upstairs, open them up,and are perplexed to find them all empty.
No clothes, no keepsakes, no
Tupperware canister sets waiting to go upon the shelves of their new pantries.
Just empty.
Well, what did they bring them for?
Or maybe the question is, who?
(03:16):
The nuns freak out,afraid that they have just been a party
to the smuggling of vampiresfrom the old world by way of these trunks.
Or maybe it's the girls themselvesthat are the monsters.
Either way, the nuns wait until nightwhen the vampires are most likely out
on one of their nightly feeding runs, runaround, blessing the building and nailing
(03:40):
shut the third floor shutters with nailsblessed by the Pope himself, in the hope
the vampires will now be trappedoutside and perish in the morning sun.
And should you visit the Ursuline Convent,which still stands
on the corner of ChartresStreet and Ursuline Avenue today
you will see those third floorshutters closed.
(04:01):
However, the nuns have moved outthe buildings now a museum.
And should you take the museum tour,
the third floor is off limits.
Rumor has it that when Hurricane Katrinablew on through,
it took one of the shutterswith it, forcing Vatican
officialsto scramble to repair the damage.
Today, it has become the main stop
(04:23):
on any good vampire tour of the city.
Just be aware that the locals don't
even think of walking pastit between midnight and 6 a.m..
What do they know that we don't?
So that is the legend of the casket girls.
But is it true?
Well, like all good legends, therecertainly is enough truth in it
(04:46):
to qualify it as faction,and not 100% fiction.
But the best part is that this story'sgiving us the rare opportunity
to debunk some of the debunkers.
Does that make it real?
No, but it's more realthan some people would have you believe.
And New Orleans still has a few tricks upher sleeve today.
(05:09):
So let's start from the beginning
and figure out where this awesomelegend came from.
To understand the casket girls, we firstneed to understand early New Orleans.
Quick history!
In 1682, a French explorerby the name of De La Salle
makes his way all the way downthe Mississippi River south
to the Gulf of America, looks backnorth, says,
(05:32):
“excuse me,excuse me” to all the Chitimacha Indians
standing around himand says, “I claim this land
for King Louisthe 14th, the King of France.”
So now Louis wants to do somethingwith that land.
The British and the Spanish
are already in the New World,so he doesn't want to miss out.
He sends a couple of brothersto scope it out.
(05:53):
First, they put up a fortthat would eventually become
Mobile, Alabama, the first capitalof the Louisiana Territory.
But then one of the brothersfinds an even better place.
One that's right on the Mississippi.
He has the perfect spotright on the riverbed.
Although why he didn't pick this bendor this bend or this bend, I have no idea.
(06:17):
But regardless,a new capital of the Louisiana
Territory is foundedin 1718, called Nouveau Orleans,
after the Duke of Orleans,which we now know as New Orleans.
Okay, we now have an official colonywith a settlement
being built on high groundthat would become today's French Quarter.
(06:37):
Only one problem.
Its entire population is soldiers, minersand fur traders.
Oh, and convicts.
The 1700s were pretty popular
for European countries sending convictsanywhere outside of Europe.
So France joined right inand sent their less than desirables
to New Orleansas labor to help build up the new colony.
(07:00):
Okay, so we have all these menroaming around and no women in sight.
Except those Chitimachan women over there.
Being the fun loving guys that they are,the colonists
start trying to spend some quality timewith the local girls.
That went over with the tribal eldersabout as well as you can imagine.
(07:22):
So King Louis has a problem.
He has a colony and no way to grow it.
He needs women, specifically respectableFrench women who could marry these men,
create familiesand transform this rough settlement
into a proper cityworthy of the French Empire.
So he thinks I'll just send oversome girls.
(07:42):
Might sound funny, but it wouldn'tbe the first time he's done it.
Back in the 1660s and 1670s,
the colony of New France,what we now know as Quebec,
had the same problem as New Orleans -a new colony and no way to grow it.
So KingLouis had an idea that became known
as the “Filles du Roi” or King'sDaughters.
(08:04):
Between 1663 and 1673.
He sends about 800 highly virtuousyoung women aged
between 12 and 25 from France to Quebec,
each carrying a letter of recommendationfrom her parish priest,
and their passage is paid for by KingLouis the 14th himself.
So bold strategy caught and let'ssee if it pays off for them.
(08:27):
Works like a charm!
About 737 of these women get marriedand start families, dramatically
increasing the population and contributingto the success of New France.
That experiment worked so well
that in 1704, Louis figureshe'll try the same trick in New Orleans
and send another boat of women,and drops them off in Mobile, Alabama.
(08:51):
And it works to a degree.
The refined ladiesthat arrive are not exactly thrilled
with the horrible living conditionsand get a little rebellious.
But the governor, Jean-BaptisteLe Moyne de
Bienville, the My French is atrocious.
founder of New Orleans, sends anotherletter home to France asking for more.
(09:13):
However, word must have gotten backto the French mainland
that the southern territoryis not exactly a picnic.
Actually, it's a swampy, diseaseridden quasi
settlement barely clinging to survival.
So therein lies the challenge.
What woman in her right mind wouldvoluntarily leave the relative comfort
(09:34):
and civilization of Franceto spend three months on a boat
in squalor conditionsto sail across the Atlantic,
only to marry a stranger in a diseaseridden swamp?
Turns out now. Many.
The only women who volunteer are womenwhose lives aren't great anyway.
So they're not the docile,gentle Filles de Roi.
(09:58):
These women are much tougher.
And not necessarily France's finest.
More like party girls who then hook upwith the resident party boys.
Not really the best recipefor building families.
Bienville then hires a company called
the Mississippi Companyto go find more girls.
(10:19):
The Mississippi Company decidesit's just going to do
whatever it needsto do to get the job done.
They basically combthe streets for any girls
who won't be missedand throw them on the boat.
Between 1704 and 1721,when the Mississippi
Company goes out of business (thank God),
(10:40):
several shipments of brides are received
between New Orleans, Biloxi, and Mobile.
Somewhere in the neighborhoodof like a thousand girls.
By 1728, the Mississippi Company
is no longer a player,but the colony is still struggling.
Bienville’s successor, Étienne Périer,
asks again for more brides.
(11:02):
And all of that brings us to our CasketGirls,
though they're not known yet by that name.
They are a groupsometimes called the Baleine Brides,
named after the shipLa Baleine, for The Whale,
that brought them to the New Worldin 1728.
These young women come from the Hôpital
(11:24):
Général de la Salpêtrière in Paris.
Now don't let the impeccableFrench accent fool you.
This is not a fancy place.
It's not even a hospital.
This is a place where they stuff the womenthey don't want to deal with,
imprisoned there for offensesranging from witchcraft and Protestantism,
(11:47):
to insanity, immoral speech,
poisoning, murder and debauchery.
Conditions there are horrific.
From this grim institution,a group of young women are selected
- primarily orphans aged 14 to 17 -to sail to Louisiana.
(12:08):
Each girl is given a small trunkcalled a cassette,
later anglicized to casket,
containing a trousseau of clothing,linens, needles, thread.
Stuff like that.
Things that a young girl needsto start her new life in the colony.
The journey across the Atlantic is awful.
(12:28):
These women spend months in cramped, dark,
damp quarters with very little privacy.
Fire hazardsmean no candles or lanterns at night,
so they spend hours in complete blackness.
Their meals consist of tiny portions
of biscuits,vegetable soups, and salted meats.
(12:49):
Not exactly a recipe for healthon such a long trip.
Even fresh water is scarce.
Not to mention that they spendmost of the daylight hours
below deckanyway, with minimal exposure to sunlight.
Because remember, in the 18th century,women on a ship were bad luck.
Plus, the sailors themselves becomea problem after that many weeks at sea.
(13:15):
So many of the girlsfind it best to just stay out of the way.
So it's not a big surprise thatwhen they finally arrive in the New World,
they look sickly, pale and weak.
Some may have gotten tuberculosisalong the way, making them cough up blood
- a detail that could later feedinto vampire legends.
(13:36):
Contrary to popular belief,these girls don't hit land in New Orleans.
They come ashore in Biloxi,
where they aretaken into the care of the Ursuline nuns.
And eventually,most make their way to New Orleans,
with the exception of those the nunsare able to marry off along the way.
These brave women would eventually becomeknown as the Casket Girls, “Filles
(14:00):
à la Cassette”, named for the small trunkscontaining their possessions.
Over time as the English word casket
evolved to become synonymous with coffin,the name would take on a darker
connotation, feeding the vampire legendsthat would eventually surround them.
Now, let's stop there for a minuteand talk about the Ursuline nuns
(14:24):
- our ruler wielding,stalwart defenders against the undead.
How did they get mixed upin this adventure?
Well, by about 1725, New Orleans
is still pretty dang unruly.
The new King of France, King Louisthe 15th, having just turned a whopping
15 years old, decideshe needs to do more to get
(14:47):
control of the out of control New Orleans.
So he requests that nunsbe sent from France
to establish a conventin New Orleans, hoping
they would bring some semblanceof order to the chaotic city.
Seven brave Ursuline nuns embark onwhat is supposed
to be a three month voyageA three hour tour.
(15:10):
that turned into a gruelingfive month ordeal.
Their mission was noble- We're on a mission from God.
to care for the sick and to establishschools for young girls in the colony.
When they finally get to New Orleansin 1727,
they find out that their conventisn't even done yet.
So they rent some space in one of thelarger homes in the French Quarter
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and wait, presumably with the Casket Girlsand their caskets in tow.
The first convent is completed in 1734.
The nuns, who are for the most partknown as being seen rarely
and heard from even morerarely, must have been unusually excited
to be moving into their forever homebecause they even threw a parade.
(15:57):
Okay, well, not exactly a parade.
More like a procession, but still,for them, that's relatively rowdy.
Too bad the honeymoon doesn't last.
They find out at some point thattheir forever home is built on swamp land.
As the floors begin to sink and the wallsshift, it sunk into the swamp. So.
(16:18):
they are forced to abandon it in 1745.
The next Ursuline convent,the one on Chartres Street,
isn't completed until 1752.
But unlike the last one,this one is still standing.
Now, here's what I find interesting.
Most placesI went to for research on the Casket
Girls legend,had pretty much the same legend story.
(16:42):
But then went on to debunk that legend
by claiming the girls got here in 1721,
and the nuns didn't get here until 1727,with their convent
that supposedly houses all of the casketsnot being built until 1752.
The timeline doesn't add up.
Therefore, the legend is fake.
Except that's not true.
(17:03):
According to “History of Louisiana”by Charles Gayarré,
written in 1854,so not long after said events,
the Casket Girls got there in 1728
and were handedover to the nuns for safekeeping.
So that does put us one step
closer to the true side of the scale.
(17:26):
But there is still the ideathat the convent
that is supposed to house the casketsto this day,
wasn't built until 24 yearsafter the casket girls had arrived.
What did they do with the trunks beforethat?
Let's say that the nuns found outabout the vampires early on
and take control of the casket,so the vampires have no homes.
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What did they do with them before 1734,when the first convent is finished?
Or again in 1752,when the current convent was finished.
Of course, it's not impossiblethat they would just factor
in those extra storage space needs whenthey were looking for a temporary rental.
But if that's the case, don't you thinkthe Mother Superior would have a “Come
(18:12):
to Jesus meeting” with the Archbishop,letting him know what they are storing
and have the Archbishopput a rush on a new place?
And if they don't know about the casketsearly on, most of the women would be
long out and married by the time the nunsget to the second convent in 1752.
So there wouldn't be any caskets to store.
(18:35):
However, remember that processionthey had walking to the new convent?
Well, there are some who speculatethat there were darker intentions.
Rumor has it there were long boxesat the end of the procession,
and that the nuns held the procession,which was maybe
more like a parade, complete with childrendressed as angels,
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because they kneweveryone would be looking at them.
Seeing them at all was such a rare sightthat no one would be paying attention
to anything else, like the long boxesthey were bringing with them.
Kind of like hiding somethingin plain sight.
And what about those permanently sealedattic windows
(19:19):
that featureso prominently in the vampire legend?
The third floor of the UrsulineConvent does indeed
have windows that remain shuttered at alltimes.
During storms,the shutters have occasionally blown
open, only to be quickly closed again.
Some claim to have spotted facesin those attic windows,
(19:42):
while others report feeling unseen eyeswatching them from above.
Wondering if there's any way to find outwhat's in that attic?
Well, author Marita Woywod Crandle,who wrote the book, “New Orleans
Vampires,” is one of the few peopleoutside the church
who has actually been up there.
(20:02):
According to Crandall,
the attic wasn't being used for storageas much as you might think.
Instead, it contains six bedrooms
originally built to house orphans.
And there was one more room in the attic,the only one with brick floors
rather than wood floors.
This darker,smaller space had heavy chains
(20:23):
hanging from a beam in the ceiling,and it was accessed through a Dutch door,
which is a doorwhere the top half can open
while the bottom half stays closed.
When Crandall asked about thisunusual room, her tour guide
explained that it wasn't for vampires,it was for the mentally ill.
In the convent’s early days, people
(20:44):
with mental illnesseswere sometimes kept in this room.
The brick floor made it easier to cleanbodily fluids.
The chains were there for restraint,and the Dutch door allowed nuns to pass
food and necessities to the occupantswithout having to jeopardize their safety
by opening the doorand having to go all the way inside.
(21:05):
Although entirely creepy on its own,
it would explain the facessome people would see in the windows.
These might all stem from the tragictreatment of mentally ill patients
rather than undead predators.
So how did these historical figures,
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young women seeking better lives, and nunsdedicated to education and health care,
become entangled with vampire lore?
The answer could be that it was justa perfect storm of circumstances.
The first would be the 19th century
explosion of interest in vampire stories,
(21:47):
spurred by workslike John Polidori’s, “The Vampire,”
from 1819, and eventually Bram Stoker's“Dracula,” from 1897.
This literary trendcreated a cultural fascination
with the undead that permeated society.
As the legend of the CasketGirls spread, elements
(22:08):
from these vampire narrativesbegan intertwining with their story.
The name itself, CasketGirls, took on new meaning,
as the English word “casket”shifted to become primarily
associated with coffinsrather than storage trunks.
The girl's appearance upon arrival- pale, sickly, possibly coughing blood
(22:29):
from tuberculosis contractedduring the voyage - mirror
descriptions of vampires or their victims.
Their arrival at night,which is not at all
unusual, was just one more boxthe vampire hunters could check off.
And New Orleans
is like the perfect backdropfor these kinds of legends to take root.
(22:50):
The city's unique melting pot of cultures- French, Spanish,
African, Caribbean - bring togetherdiverse spiritual and occult traditions.
Voodoo, Catholicism, and folk beliefsall mixed together,
creating fertile groundfor supernatural tales.
Not to mention the high mortalityrate in early
(23:12):
New Orleans due to yellow fever, malariaand other diseases
meant that death was everywherefor no reason anyone could understand.
Modern medicine with its understandingof disease transmission
wasn't a thing, so a mysterious illnessthat drained life from its victims
could easily be attributedto supernatural causes.
(23:35):
Today, this vampire connection continuesto thrive in New Orleans culture.
The city embracesits reputation as a haven for the undead.
According to a 2017 studyby then Louisiana State University
doctoral candidate John Edgar Browning,
at least 50 self-identified
(23:55):
real vampires call New Orleans home,
and he estimatesabout 5000 across the U.S..
The city even has its own New OrleansVampire Association - people who claim
to have a medical condition requiring themto consume blood to sustain themselves.
Vampire tours are among the most popularattractions in the French Quarter,
(24:19):
and the Ursuline Convent remainsa highlight of these nocturnal excursions.
The legend of the CasketGirls is a perfect
origin storyfor the city's vampiric reputation.
A tale with just enough historical truth
to make the supernatural elementstantalizingly plausible.
But don't think for a second
(24:41):
that we are even close to being done.
This is the legend that keeps on giving.
One of the craziest reports, thoughwholly unsubstantiated,
is the story of two reporters in the 1970swho want to know the truth
about those third floor shuttersso they get themselves comfortable
(25:02):
and have a stakeout in their carparked right outside the fence,
with a direct view, camerastrained on the third floor.
Hours passed by, but
evidently the coffee wasn't strong enoughbecause they must have fallen asleep.
They don't see the third floor shutters,the same shutters that are supposed
(25:24):
to be nailed shut by the blessed nails,
open and shut and open and shut.
The recording camera's whirlto a stop, as the scene fades to black.
The next morning,the bodies of the investigators
were found ripped openand drained of blood.
Another encountercomes from the spring of 2020.
(25:46):
An extended family is on vacationin New Orleans for a long weekend.
They're at a restaurant.
When one of the women, Angie, realizesshe forgot something in her car.
So she excuses herself, tellingeveryone, I'll be right back.
The others continue having fun, but
realize Angie's been gone for a while.
So one of the other women,let's just call her Holly, says.
(26:08):
“I'm going to go check and see whatthe problem is,”
and she gets upand also heads out to the car.
As Holly's walking to the car,she sees Angie
standing next to the carwith some dude talking to her.
Holly calls
Angie's name a couple of times,but Angie doesn't respond.
As Holly gets closer,she sees that this guy is leaning
in towards Angie, like he'sgoing to give her a hug.
(26:32):
Holly picks up the pace.
When she finally gets to the car.
She sees the guy's face and mouth openwith a row of jagged, sharp teeth.
As soon as she sees the teeth,the guy shoots up
straight into the air and disappears.
Angie does not remember any of this.
Her memory goes straight from walkingtoward the car, to Holly standing
(26:55):
next to her.
They decide to call the police, thinkingmaybe someone
slipped some drugs into herdrink or something.
The cops ask them, tall?
Amber colored eyes?
Holly says, “Yeah,that's the guy.” The cops
tell them, you're not the first callwe've had about this guy.
He's the real deal.
(27:16):
Or this account from a Reddit userwe’ll call Beth.
It's 2001, and Beth, who’s14, goes to New Orleans for her birthday.
She's a huge Anne Rice fanand absolutely in love with vampires.
So a trip to New Orleans is a no brainer.
Beth's last night there, she and her dadgo to the Riverwalk, and Beth starts
(27:38):
getting this creepy feelinglike somebody is watching her.
Freaked out, She and her dad turn aroundand head back to the hotel.
Later, driving out of the French Quarter,they both spot
a man walking so fasthis coat is flaring up.
He's well dressed, with long hairtied back and a low ponytail, but
(27:59):
he doesn't look like he's dressed right,
either for the summer temperaturesor for the time period.
Dad says, maybe he's a vampire,and speeds up to get a closer look.
The guy looks right at Bethand smiles at her.
Beth instantly gets a weird feelingin the pit of her stomach
and starts to panic,telling her dad, just go.
(28:22):
Just drive.
And they both watch as the guycrosses the street behind them
and just starts flying up into the air.
Dad lets fly a few colorful words,
whips the car aroundand they both start looking for him.
But he's gone.
Or this account from YouTuberCedric Whittaker
from the channelThe Demons Tea Room with Cedric Whitaker.
(28:46):
He tells the tale of a good friend of hiswho Cedric didn't
want to name,so we're going to call him Joe.
About 4 or 5 years ago, Joe fulfills
his lifelong dreamof leaving the rat race of Manhattan
behind for a bartending gigat Napoleon House in the French Quarter.
Now this guy is like 6’3” or 6’4”,
(29:09):
long blond hair and full sleeve tattoos.
Total Harley dude vibe.
This guy does not believein the paranormal.
If you tell him you just got slappedacross the face by a ghost,
he'll tell you, “Lay off the crack pipe.”
So Cedric gets a call from Joe around3:30 in the morning.
(29:29):
Cedric, I need you in the quarter.
I need you here now.
Seven minutes later, Cedric's there
and findsJoe three blocks away from Napoleon house,
sitting on the sidewalkin a fetal position,
rocking back and forth, sweating bullets.
Cedric, not having any ideawhat could possibly send
(29:52):
this tough guy friendinto this kind of an emotional spiral,
just kind of casually approacheshim and says, what's up, man?
Joe says, I'm going to tell you the story,and I know
that if you were telling it to me,I would call you a boldfaced liar.
And he goes on to tell Cedricthat he was shutting the bar down.
(30:16):
He has all the doors closed and locked,except for one that's closed
but not locked.
He goes in the back and startscounting out his till to get ready
to shut the bar down for the night, whenhe hears something out in the front room.
It sounds like glass bottleshitting together or like glasses clinking.
Joe goes out in the frontto see what's going on, and sees
(30:37):
what looks like a 12 or 13 yearold little girl
standing on the bar with her backto him, dancing around the bottles.
He yells, Yo, kid!
Get the hell off my bar!
You're going to get me in trouble!”The little girl turns around.
Jet black eyes, mouth full of sharp teeth.
(31:00):
Takes a single step off the bar like it'snothing, and starts walking toward Joe.
Joe, knowing a predator when he sees one,
keeps eye contact with itand backs out the door.
He tells Cedric, that was nota little girl and I'm not going back.
Joe moves out of the cityless than six hours later
(31:23):
and refuses to ever return.
Interestingly enough, Cedricalso claims to have three affidavits
from military police officersassigned to the city of New Orleans
in the aftermath of Katrinafor rescue operations.
They say they receiveddirect orders to load up a convoy,
(31:44):
head out to the airport,
pick up some people,escort them back to the Ursuline Convent,
ensure that they were unimpededduring their investigation,
then load them back up, get themback to the airport and see them off.
Okay.
Pair that with the manifestfor that flight from that day,
which Cedric saysis also in his possession.
(32:07):
Which gives the flight's point of originas Italy.
The Vatican.
So the question is, what is so importanton the third floor of the Ursuline Convent
that not only does the United Statesmilitary pull
rescue workers and first responders offdisaster operations,
when they still havepeople stranded on their roofs,
(32:30):
but the Vatican sends some of its highestranking officials into a disaster zone
to investigate a buildingthat's the subject of what's
supposed to benothing but legend and lore?
Funny, nobody's answering that question.
But Cedric does have one piece of advice
for anyonethinking of visiting New Orleans.
(32:52):
If you happen to be walkingby the Ursuline Convent and you look up
and you see any one of those third floor
dormer windows open, leave.
It means the vampires are out hunting.
Special shout out
to Cedric Whitaker with The Demon’sTea Room.
He used to be a tour guide in New Orleans,and it shows.
(33:15):
He is an awesome storyteller.
Check out his channel if you want to hearmore creepy stories about New Orleans.
If you want to stick around and exploremore creepy
stories of legend and lore, clickright here.
Come on. We're having so much fun.
Be careful out there.
And I will see you hereagain, on The InBetween.
(33:41):
Thanks for tuning into The InBetween Podcast.
Enjoy the full visual experiencewith me over on YouTube.
Just search for at the invite Queen tales.
I'm Carol Ann.
And until next time, be careful out
there!
Strange mysteries, unexplained phenomena.
And the shadows in between.
This is The InBetween Official Podcastwith your host,
Carol Ann!
New Orleans.
1728.
A ship arrives in the dark of nightcarrying young women with skin so pale
(00:39):
it seems translucent,and each clutching a coffin shaped trunk.
Days later, the first body appears,completely drained of blood.
In this episode, we'llanswer the question of why the locals
still won't walk pastthe Ursuline Convent after midnight,
and why the Vatican keeps its third floorpermanently sealed.
(01:03):
I'm Carol Ann,and welcome to The InBetween.
don't.
The year is 1728,
in the relatively new cityof New Orleans, in French held territory.
New Orleans has a decent sized population.
(01:24):
Problem is, they're all men.
And pretty rowdy ones at that.
So the king of France, desperateto get a real colony going,
sends over a group of young womenas potential brides for the men.
The plan is that the girls would marrythe residents of the colony,
start families,not only to settle down the current
bad boy population, but also to kick
(01:47):
start the colony population.
As the women step off the boatafter three months at sea,
the men are not impressed.
The girls look anemic and sickly as they
file out from below deck and off the ship.
The plan is for them to be shelteredand protected by the Ursuline nuns,
(02:08):
a local convent, until suitablemarriage matches can be made.
So the girls, each having a large, heavytrunk or casket
filled with all their worldly possessionsand anything else
they need to start a new lifeand a new family
are taken to the convent,and their trunks are taken
to the building'sthird floor attic for safekeeping.
(02:31):
The nuns are toldthat the trunks are to remain closed
until each girl is married.
But it doesn't take long before strangethings start happening around the city.
People go missing.
Others are found drained of blood.
But the Holy Spirit must have beenwhispering in the ears of the nuns
because they decide to go check outthose trunks sitting up in their attic.
(02:55):
They march upstairs, open them up,and are perplexed to find them all empty.
No clothes, no keepsakes, no
Tupperware canister sets waiting to go upon the shelves of their new pantries.
Just empty.
Well, what did they bring them for?
Or maybe the question is, who?
(03:16):
The nuns freak out,afraid that they have just been a party
to the smuggling of vampiresfrom the old world by way of these trunks.
Or maybe it's the girls themselvesthat are the monsters.
Either way, the nuns wait until nightwhen the vampires are most likely out
on one of their nightly feeding runs, runaround, blessing the building and nailing
(03:40):
shut the third floor shutters with nailsblessed by the Pope himself, in the hope
the vampires will now be trappedoutside and perish in the morning sun.
And should you visit the Ursuline Convent,which still stands
on the corner of ChartresStreet and Ursuline Avenue today
you will see those third floorshutters closed.
(04:01):
However, the nuns have moved outthe buildings now a museum.
And should you take the museum tour,
the third floor is off limits.
Rumor has it that when Hurricane Katrinablew on through,
it took one of the shutterswith it, forcing Vatican
officialsto scramble to repair the damage.
Today, it has become the main stop
(04:23):
on any good vampire tour of the city.
Just be aware that the locals don't
even think of walking pastit between midnight and 6 a.m..
What do they know that we don't?
So that is the legend of the casket girls.
But is it true?
Well, like all good legends, therecertainly is enough truth in it
(04:46):
to qualify it as faction,and not 100% fiction.
But the best part is that this story'sgiving us the rare opportunity
to debunk some of the debunkers.
Does that make it real?
No, but it's more realthan some people would have you believe.
And New Orleans still has a few tricks upher sleeve today.
(05:09):
So let's start from the beginning
and figure out where this awesomelegend came from.
To understand the casket girls, we firstneed to understand early New Orleans.
Quick history!
In 1682, a French explorerby the name of De La Salle
makes his way all the way downthe Mississippi River south
to the Gulf of America, looks backnorth, says,
(05:32):
“excuse me,excuse me” to all the Chitimacha Indians
standing around himand says, “I claim this land
for King Louisthe 14th, the King of France.”
So now Louis wants to do somethingwith that land.
The British and the Spanish
are already in the New World,so he doesn't want to miss out.
He sends a couple of brothersto scope it out.
(05:53):
First, they put up a fortthat would eventually become
Mobile, Alabama, the first capitalof the Louisiana Territory.
But then one of the brothersfinds an even better place.
One that's right on the Mississippi.
He has the perfect spotright on the riverbed.
Although why he didn't pick this bendor this bend or this bend, I have no idea.
(06:17):
But regardless,a new capital of the Louisiana
Territory is foundedin 1718, called Nouveau Orleans,
after the Duke of Orleans,which we now know as New Orleans.
Okay, we now have an official colonywith a settlement
being built on high groundthat would become today's French Quarter.
(06:37):
Only one problem.
Its entire population is soldiers, minersand fur traders.
Oh, and convicts.
The 1700s were pretty popular
for European countries sending convictsanywhere outside of Europe.
So France joined right inand sent their less than desirables
to New Orleansas labor to help build up the new colony.
(07:00):
Okay, so we have all these menroaming around and no women in sight.
Except those Chitimachan women over there.
Being the fun loving guys that they are,the colonists
start trying to spend some quality timewith the local girls.
That went over with the tribal eldersabout as well as you can imagine.
(07:22):
So King Louis has a problem.
He has a colony and no way to grow it.
He needs women, specifically respectableFrench women who could marry these men,
create familiesand transform this rough settlement
into a proper cityworthy of the French Empire.
So he thinks I'll just send oversome girls.
(07:42):
Might sound funny, but it wouldn'tbe the first time he's done it.
Back in the 1660s and 1670s,
the colony of New France,what we now know as Quebec,
had the same problem as New Orleans -a new colony and no way to grow it.
So KingLouis had an idea that became known
as the “Filles du Roi” or King'sDaughters.
(08:04):
Between 1663 and 1673.
He sends about 800 highly virtuousyoung women aged
between 12 and 25 from France to Quebec,
each carrying a letter of recommendationfrom her parish priest,
and their passage is paid for by KingLouis the 14th himself.
So bold strategy caught and let'ssee if it pays off for them.
(08:27):
Works like a charm!
About 737 of these women get marriedand start families, dramatically
increasing the population and contributingto the success of New France.
That experiment worked so well
that in 1704, Louis figureshe'll try the same trick in New Orleans
and send another boat of women,and drops them off in Mobile, Alabama.
(08:51):
And it works to a degree.
The refined ladiesthat arrive are not exactly thrilled
with the horrible living conditionsand get a little rebellious.
But the governor, Jean-BaptisteLe Moyne de
Bienville, the My French is atrocious.
founder of New Orleans, sends anotherletter home to France asking for more.
(09:13):
However, word must have gotten backto the French mainland
that the southern territoryis not exactly a picnic.
Actually, it's a swampy, diseaseridden quasi
settlement barely clinging to survival.
So therein lies the challenge.
What woman in her right mind wouldvoluntarily leave the relative comfort
(09:34):
and civilization of Franceto spend three months on a boat
in squalor conditionsto sail across the Atlantic,
only to marry a stranger in a diseaseridden swamp?
Turns out now. Many.
The only women who volunteer are womenwhose lives aren't great anyway.
So they're not the docile,gentle Filles de Roi.
(09:58):
These women are much tougher.
And not necessarily France's finest.
More like party girls who then hook upwith the resident party boys.
Not really the best recipefor building families.
Bienville then hires a company called
the Mississippi Companyto go find more girls.
(10:19):
The Mississippi Company decidesit's just going to do
whatever it needsto do to get the job done.
They basically combthe streets for any girls
who won't be missedand throw them on the boat.
Between 1704 and 1721,when the Mississippi
Company goes out of business (thank God),
(10:40):
several shipments of brides are received
between New Orleans, Biloxi, and Mobile.
Somewhere in the neighborhoodof like a thousand girls.
By 1728, the Mississippi Company
is no longer a player,but the colony is still struggling.
Bienville’s successor, Étienne Périer,
asks again for more brides.
(11:02):
And all of that brings us to our CasketGirls,
though they're not known yet by that name.
They are a groupsometimes called the Baleine Brides,
named after the shipLa Baleine, for The Whale,
that brought them to the New Worldin 1728.
These young women come from the Hôpital
(11:24):
Général de la Salpêtrière in Paris.
Now don't let the impeccableFrench accent fool you.
This is not a fancy place.
It's not even a hospital.
This is a place where they stuff the womenthey don't want to deal with,
imprisoned there for offensesranging from witchcraft and Protestantism,
(11:47):
to insanity, immoral speech,
poisoning, murder and debauchery.
Conditions there are horrific.
From this grim institution,a group of young women are selected
- primarily orphans aged 14 to 17 -to sail to Louisiana.
(12:08):
Each girl is given a small trunkcalled a cassette,
later anglicized to casket,
containing a trousseau of clothing,linens, needles, thread.
Stuff like that.
Things that a young girl needsto start her new life in the colony.
The journey across the Atlantic is awful.
(12:28):
These women spend months in cramped, dark,
damp quarters with very little privacy.
Fire hazardsmean no candles or lanterns at night,
so they spend hours in complete blackness.
Their meals consist of tiny portions
of biscuits,vegetable soups, and salted meats.
(12:49):
Not exactly a recipe for healthon such a long trip.
Even fresh water is scarce.
Not to mention that they spendmost of the daylight hours
below deckanyway, with minimal exposure to sunlight.
Because remember, in the 18th century,women on a ship were bad luck.
Plus, the sailors themselves becomea problem after that many weeks at sea.
(13:15):
So many of the girlsfind it best to just stay out of the way.
So it's not a big surprise thatwhen they finally arrive in the New World,
they look sickly, pale and weak.
Some may have gotten tuberculosisalong the way, making them cough up blood
- a detail that could later feedinto vampire legends.
(13:36):
Contrary to popular belief,these girls don't hit land in New Orleans.
They come ashore in Biloxi,
where they aretaken into the care of the Ursuline nuns.
And eventually,most make their way to New Orleans,
with the exception of those the nunsare able to marry off along the way.
These brave women would eventually becomeknown as the Casket Girls, “Filles
(14:00):
à la Cassette”, named for the small trunkscontaining their possessions.
Over time as the English word casket
evolved to become synonymous with coffin,the name would take on a darker
connotation, feeding the vampire legendsthat would eventually surround them.
Now, let's stop there for a minuteand talk about the Ursuline nuns
(14:24):
- our ruler wielding,stalwart defenders against the undead.
How did they get mixed upin this adventure?
Well, by about 1725, New Orleans
is still pretty dang unruly.
The new King of France, King Louisthe 15th, having just turned a whopping
15 years old, decideshe needs to do more to get
(14:47):
control of the out of control New Orleans.
So he requests that nunsbe sent from France
to establish a conventin New Orleans, hoping
they would bring some semblanceof order to the chaotic city.
Seven brave Ursuline nuns embark onwhat is supposed
to be a three month voyageA three hour tour.
(15:10):
that turned into a gruelingfive month ordeal.
Their mission was noble- We're on a mission from God.
to care for the sick and to establishschools for young girls in the colony.
When they finally get to New Orleansin 1727,
they find out that their conventisn't even done yet.
So they rent some space in one of thelarger homes in the French Quarter
(15:33):
and wait, presumably with the Casket Girlsand their caskets in tow.
The first convent is completed in 1734.
The nuns, who are for the most partknown as being seen rarely
and heard from even morerarely, must have been unusually excited
to be moving into their forever homebecause they even threw a parade.
(15:57):
Okay, well, not exactly a parade.
More like a procession, but still,for them, that's relatively rowdy.
Too bad the honeymoon doesn't last.
They find out at some point thattheir forever home is built on swamp land.
As the floors begin to sink and the wallsshift, it sunk into the swamp. So.
(16:18):
they are forced to abandon it in 1745.
The next Ursuline convent,the one on Chartres Street,
isn't completed until 1752.
But unlike the last one,this one is still standing.
Now, here's what I find interesting.
Most placesI went to for research on the Casket
Girls legend,had pretty much the same legend story.
(16:42):
But then went on to debunk that legend
by claiming the girls got here in 1721,
and the nuns didn't get here until 1727,with their convent
that supposedly houses all of the casketsnot being built until 1752.
The timeline doesn't add up.
Therefore, the legend is fake.
Except that's not true.
(17:03):
According to “History of Louisiana”by Charles Gayarré,
written in 1854,so not long after said events,
the Casket Girls got there in 1728
and were handedover to the nuns for safekeeping.
So that does put us one step
closer to the true side of the scale.
(17:26):
But there is still the ideathat the convent
that is supposed to house the casketsto this day,
wasn't built until 24 yearsafter the casket girls had arrived.
What did they do with the trunks beforethat?
Let's say that the nuns found outabout the vampires early on
and take control of the casket,so the vampires have no homes.
(17:48):
What did they do with them before 1734,when the first convent is finished?
Or again in 1752,when the current convent was finished.
Of course, it's not impossiblethat they would just factor
in those extra storage space needs whenthey were looking for a temporary rental.
But if that's the case, don't you thinkthe Mother Superior would have a “Come
(18:12):
to Jesus meeting” with the Archbishop,letting him know what they are storing
and have the Archbishopput a rush on a new place?
And if they don't know about the casketsearly on, most of the women would be
long out and married by the time the nunsget to the second convent in 1752.
So there wouldn't be any caskets to store.
(18:35):
However, remember that processionthey had walking to the new convent?
Well, there are some who speculatethat there were darker intentions.
Rumor has it there were long boxesat the end of the procession,
and that the nuns held the procession,which was maybe
more like a parade, complete with childrendressed as angels,
(18:58):
because they kneweveryone would be looking at them.
Seeing them at all was such a rare sightthat no one would be paying attention
to anything else, like the long boxesthey were bringing with them.
Kind of like hiding somethingin plain sight.
And what about those permanently sealedattic windows
(19:19):
that featureso prominently in the vampire legend?
The third floor of the UrsulineConvent does indeed
have windows that remain shuttered at alltimes.
During storms,the shutters have occasionally blown
open, only to be quickly closed again.
Some claim to have spotted facesin those attic windows,
(19:42):
while others report feeling unseen eyeswatching them from above.
Wondering if there's any way to find outwhat's in that attic?
Well, author Marita Woywod Crandle,who wrote the book, “New Orleans
Vampires,” is one of the few peopleoutside the church
who has actually been up there.
(20:02):
According to Crandall,
the attic wasn't being used for storageas much as you might think.
Instead, it contains six bedrooms
originally built to house orphans.
And there was one more room in the attic,the only one with brick floors
rather than wood floors.
This darker,smaller space had heavy chains
(20:23):
hanging from a beam in the ceiling,and it was accessed through a Dutch door,
which is a doorwhere the top half can open
while the bottom half stays closed.
When Crandall asked about thisunusual room, her tour guide
explained that it wasn't for vampires,it was for the mentally ill.
In the convent’s early days, people
(20:44):
with mental illnesseswere sometimes kept in this room.
The brick floor made it easier to cleanbodily fluids.
The chains were there for restraint,and the Dutch door allowed nuns to pass
food and necessities to the occupantswithout having to jeopardize their safety
by opening the doorand having to go all the way inside.
(21:05):
Although entirely creepy on its own,
it would explain the facessome people would see in the windows.
These might all stem from the tragictreatment of mentally ill patients
rather than undead predators.
So how did these historical figures,
(21:25):
young women seeking better lives, and nunsdedicated to education and health care,
become entangled with vampire lore?
The answer could be that it was justa perfect storm of circumstances.
The first would be the 19th century
explosion of interest in vampire stories,
(21:47):
spurred by workslike John Polidori’s, “The Vampire,”
from 1819, and eventually Bram Stoker's“Dracula,” from 1897.
This literary trendcreated a cultural fascination
with the undead that permeated society.
As the legend of the CasketGirls spread, elements
(22:08):
from these vampire narrativesbegan intertwining with their story.
The name itself, CasketGirls, took on new meaning,
as the English word “casket”shifted to become primarily
associated with coffinsrather than storage trunks.
The girl's appearance upon arrival- pale, sickly, possibly coughing blood
(22:29):
from tuberculosis contractedduring the voyage - mirror
descriptions of vampires or their victims.
Their arrival at night,which is not at all
unusual, was just one more boxthe vampire hunters could check off.
And New Orleans
is like the perfect backdropfor these kinds of legends to take root.
(22:50):
The city's unique melting pot of cultures- French, Spanish,
African, Caribbean - bring togetherdiverse spiritual and occult traditions.
Voodoo, Catholicism, and folk beliefsall mixed together,
creating fertile groundfor supernatural tales.
Not to mention the high mortalityrate in early
(23:12):
New Orleans due to yellow fever, malariaand other diseases
meant that death was everywherefor no reason anyone could understand.
Modern medicine with its understandingof disease transmission
wasn't a thing, so a mysterious illnessthat drained life from its victims
could easily be attributedto supernatural causes.
(23:35):
Today, this vampire connection continuesto thrive in New Orleans culture.
The city embracesits reputation as a haven for the undead.
According to a 2017 studyby then Louisiana State University
doctoral candidate John Edgar Browning,
at least 50 self-identified
(23:55):
real vampires call New Orleans home,
and he estimatesabout 5000 across the U.S..
The city even has its own New OrleansVampire Association - people who claim
to have a medical condition requiring themto consume blood to sustain themselves.
Vampire tours are among the most popularattractions in the French Quarter,
(24:19):
and the Ursuline Convent remainsa highlight of these nocturnal excursions.
The legend of the CasketGirls is a perfect
origin storyfor the city's vampiric reputation.
A tale with just enough historical truth
to make the supernatural elementstantalizingly plausible.
But don't think for a second
(24:41):
that we are even close to being done.
This is the legend that keeps on giving.
One of the craziest reports, thoughwholly unsubstantiated,
is the story of two reporters in the 1970swho want to know the truth
about those third floor shuttersso they get themselves comfortable
(25:02):
and have a stakeout in their carparked right outside the fence,
with a direct view, camerastrained on the third floor.
Hours passed by, but
evidently the coffee wasn't strong enoughbecause they must have fallen asleep.
They don't see the third floor shutters,the same shutters that are supposed
(25:24):
to be nailed shut by the blessed nails,
open and shut and open and shut.
The recording camera's whirlto a stop, as the scene fades to black.
The next morning,the bodies of the investigators
were found ripped openand drained of blood.
Another encountercomes from the spring of 2020.
(25:46):
An extended family is on vacationin New Orleans for a long weekend.
They're at a restaurant.
When one of the women, Angie, realizesshe forgot something in her car.
So she excuses herself, tellingeveryone, I'll be right back.
The others continue having fun, but
realize Angie's been gone for a while.
So one of the other women,let's just call her Holly, says.
(26:08):
“I'm going to go check and see whatthe problem is,”
and she gets upand also heads out to the car.
As Holly's walking to the car,she sees Angie
standing next to the carwith some dude talking to her.
Holly calls
Angie's name a couple of times,but Angie doesn't respond.
As Holly gets closer,she sees that this guy is leaning
in towards Angie, like he'sgoing to give her a hug.
(26:32):
Holly picks up the pace.
When she finally gets to the car.
She sees the guy's face and mouth openwith a row of jagged, sharp teeth.
As soon as she sees the teeth,the guy shoots up
straight into the air and disappears.
Angie does not remember any of this.
Her memory goes straight from walkingtoward the car, to Holly standing
(26:55):
next to her.
They decide to call the police, thinkingmaybe someone
slipped some drugs into herdrink or something.
The cops ask them, tall?
Amber colored eyes?
Holly says, “Yeah,that's the guy.” The cops
tell them, you're not the first callwe've had about this guy.
He's the real deal.
(27:16):
Or this account from a Reddit userwe’ll call Beth.
It's 2001, and Beth, who’s14, goes to New Orleans for her birthday.
She's a huge Anne Rice fanand absolutely in love with vampires.
So a trip to New Orleans is a no brainer.
Beth's last night there, she and her dadgo to the Riverwalk, and Beth starts
(27:38):
getting this creepy feelinglike somebody is watching her.
Freaked out, She and her dad turn aroundand head back to the hotel.
Later, driving out of the French Quarter,they both spot
a man walking so fasthis coat is flaring up.
He's well dressed, with long hairtied back and a low ponytail, but
(27:59):
he doesn't look like he's dressed right,
either for the summer temperaturesor for the time period.
Dad says, maybe he's a vampire,and speeds up to get a closer look.
The guy looks right at Bethand smiles at her.
Beth instantly gets a weird feelingin the pit of her stomach
and starts to panic,telling her dad, just go.
(28:22):
Just drive.
And they both watch as the guycrosses the street behind them
and just starts flying up into the air.
Dad lets fly a few colorful words,
whips the car aroundand they both start looking for him.
But he's gone.
Or this account from YouTuberCedric Whittaker
from the channelThe Demons Tea Room with Cedric Whitaker.
(28:46):
He tells the tale of a good friend of hiswho Cedric didn't
want to name,so we're going to call him Joe.
About 4 or 5 years ago, Joe fulfills
his lifelong dreamof leaving the rat race of Manhattan
behind for a bartending gigat Napoleon House in the French Quarter.
Now this guy is like 6’3” or 6’4”,
(29:09):
long blond hair and full sleeve tattoos.
Total Harley dude vibe.
This guy does not believein the paranormal.
If you tell him you just got slappedacross the face by a ghost,
he'll tell you, “Lay off the crack pipe.”
So Cedric gets a call from Joe around3:30 in the morning.
(29:29):
Cedric, I need you in the quarter.
I need you here now.
Seven minutes later, Cedric's there
and findsJoe three blocks away from Napoleon house,
sitting on the sidewalkin a fetal position,
rocking back and forth, sweating bullets.
Cedric, not having any ideawhat could possibly send
(29:52):
this tough guy friendinto this kind of an emotional spiral,
just kind of casually approacheshim and says, what's up, man?
Joe says, I'm going to tell you the story,and I know
that if you were telling it to me,I would call you a boldfaced liar.
And he goes on to tell Cedricthat he was shutting the bar down.
(30:16):
He has all the doors closed and locked,except for one that's closed
but not locked.
He goes in the back and startscounting out his till to get ready
to shut the bar down for the night, whenhe hears something out in the front room.
It sounds like glass bottleshitting together or like glasses clinking.
Joe goes out in the frontto see what's going on, and sees
(30:37):
what looks like a 12 or 13 yearold little girl
standing on the bar with her backto him, dancing around the bottles.
He yells, Yo, kid!
Get the hell off my bar!
You're going to get me in trouble!”The little girl turns around.
Jet black eyes, mouth full of sharp teeth.
(31:00):
Takes a single step off the bar like it'snothing, and starts walking toward Joe.
Joe, knowing a predator when he sees one,
keeps eye contact with itand backs out the door.
He tells Cedric, that was nota little girl and I'm not going back.
Joe moves out of the cityless than six hours later
(31:23):
and refuses to ever return.
Interestingly enough, Cedricalso claims to have three affidavits
from military police officersassigned to the city of New Orleans
in the aftermath of Katrinafor rescue operations.
They say they receiveddirect orders to load up a convoy,
(31:44):
head out to the airport,
pick up some people,escort them back to the Ursuline Convent,
ensure that they were unimpededduring their investigation,
then load them back up, get themback to the airport and see them off.
Okay.
Pair that with the manifestfor that flight from that day,
which Cedric saysis also in his possession.
(32:07):
Which gives the flight's point of originas Italy.
The Vatican.
So the question is, what is so importanton the third floor of the Ursuline Convent
that not only does the United Statesmilitary pull
rescue workers and first responders offdisaster operations,
when they still havepeople stranded on their roofs,
(32:30):
but the Vatican sends some of its highestranking officials into a disaster zone
to investigate a buildingthat's the subject of what's
supposed to benothing but legend and lore?
Funny, nobody's answering that question.
But Cedric does have one piece of advice
for anyonethinking of visiting New Orleans.
(32:52):
If you happen to be walkingby the Ursuline Convent and you look up
and you see any one of those third floor
dormer windows open, leave.
It means the vampires are out hunting.
Special shout out
to Cedric Whitaker with The Demon’sTea Room.
He used to be a tour guide in New Orleans,and it shows.
(33:15):
He is an awesome storyteller.
Check out his channel if you want to hearmore creepy stories about New Orleans.
If you want to stick around and exploremore creepy
stories of legend and lore, clickright here.
Come on. We're having so much fun.
Be careful out there.
And I will see you hereagain, on The InBetween.
(33:41):
Thanks for tuning into The InBetween Podcast.
Enjoy the full visual experiencewith me over on YouTube.
Just search for at the invite Queen tales.
I'm Carol Ann.
And until next time, be careful out
there!
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