March 22, 2025 • 39 mins
Scientists are divided over the mysterious tridactyl ‘Nazca Mummies’ found in Peru's Nazca desert - beings with three-fingered hands, retractable necks, and DNA unlike anything on Earth. Masterful hoax or unknown species?
Link referred to in this video: Llama Skull Study - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355394217_Applying_CT-scanning_for_the_identification_of_a_skull_of_an_unknown_archaeological_find_in_Peru
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
Strange mysteries, unexplained phenomena.
And the shadows in between.
This is The InBetween Official Podcastwith your host,
Carol Ann!
It's 2016.
Tomb raiders in Peru'sNazca desert uncover something
(00:37):
impossible - mummies with three fingeredhands, retractable
necksand DNA less human than a turnip. Now,
it sparked an international scientific warthat's still raging to this day.
Are they proof of extraterrestrials?
An ancient, unknown species?
Or the greatest hoax ever perpetrated?
(00:59):
Welcome to The InBetween.
I'm Carol Ann,and we are about to find out.
don't.
All right.
I'm going to start offby telling you that this story starts
like this.
Morphs into this.
(01:23):
and eventually degenerates into this.
We are traveling todayall the way to Peru.
Peru is no stranger to mummies.
They're all over the place.
Some of you may be familiar with the 1927discovery of 429 mummies
on the Paracas Peninsula of Peru.
(01:45):
Now, a quick search of Paracasin Wikipedia will take you to a page
that talks all about the Paracas culture
and their frequentuse of skull modification.
In short, just like the Japaneselike to practice foot binding,
the Peruvians like to wrap the headsof their babies to make them conehead.
Greetings.
(02:06):
No big deal.
It doesn't really change anything like IQor cranial capacity.
Just a different shape.
And those cone head skulls are not reallyeven all that uncommon.
They've been found in Hungary,ancient Germanic regions,
ancient Iranian regions, and even Sweden.
What Wikipedia doesn't seemto want to talk about
(02:27):
are what have become knownas the Paracas skulls.
At first glance, they look likeany other modified mummy skull.
But this particular groupof skulls is different.
Not only do some of them have red hair,they have extra chiseled cheekbones
and no sagittal sutureon the top of their head.
(02:47):
But they also have a cranial capacity way
bigger than humans, like 30% bigger.
So all of that is to set the stagefor the drama
that began to unfoldaround the end of 2016, around 120 miles
to the southeast of the Paracas Peninsulain the Nazca region of Peru.
(03:08):
Yup. That Nazca.
Same area where you can find those famousNazca lines, the super huge
drawings in the sandthat you can only really see from the air.
Now, just for reference, just over 300
miles to the northeast of Nazcais Machu Picchu.
So this whole little area here is rife
(03:28):
with ancient historyand priceless artifacts.
As you might imagine,Nazca is not the wealthiest area of Peru.
They do okay for themselves, but it's notan economic powerhouse by any stretch.
So what do you getwhen you add a mediocre, at best economy
and a priceless artifact rich environment?
(03:49):
Huaqueros, or tomb raiders.
I seriously doubt they look like that.
Relics of ancient civilizationsand even entire mummies
are big black market business in Peru.
So it's not exactly the rarest thingin the world for people to make a side
hustle out of finding
(04:10):
and selling anythingthat they can find out in the arid desert.
The first character in our little dramais Paul R.
Paul approachesa French guy named Thierry Jamin,
who is a well known archeologist in Peru
and president of the Inkarri Institute.
He contacts Thierry and says, hey,asking for a friend?
(04:34):
Are you interested inlooking at these super funky alien
looking mummies we found?
After chatting for a while,we find out that the friend is Mario,
not his real name.
His real name would later be discoveredto be Leandro Benedicto Rivera.
Let's just stick with Mario.
More negotiationsensue, and Paul and Mario
(04:54):
finally agreedto bring some of their samples to Thierry.
Remember thatthese guys are basically confessing
to a crime here,so they are covering their butts big time.
Antiquities theft in Peru is a big no no.
Mario tells Thierry that he and his crewfound a whole bunch of these things
(05:14):
in some caves in the mountains,somewhere between Nazca and Palpa.
Thierry takes the samples aroundfor some preliminary testing
and being satisfied that,at least on a surface level,
they seem to be legit,he fires off a letter in early 2017
to the Peruvian Ministry of Culture,asking they've heard about this.
(05:36):
Without waiting for a response whendoes the government do anything quickly?
- Thierry heads down to the Nazca areaof Peru to see the rest of the collection.
He and his team bring backa couple of small mummified heads
and a larger hand for X-ray analysisin February of 2017.
Based on those results,they start crowdfunding to raise money
(06:00):
for DNA and carbon 14 testing to be done.
It only takes a monthbefore they hit over 125% of their goal.
At the beginning of April 2017,several samples are taken from
two of these tiny mummified bodiesand sent to various labs
around the world for testing.
This is when Jaime Maussan entersthe picture.
(06:23):
Maussan has had a long awardwinning career in journalism in Mexico.
He is the face of the Mexican versionof 60 Minutes,
and he's had a showfor like 20 years on UFO investigations.
However,he kind of muddies the waters in this case
because of his past involvementin a couple of other cases.
(06:45):
In 2015, he led an event called “BeWitness”, where event organizers
unveil a mummified bodyclaiming it to be an alien child.
The mummified corpse was lateridentified as a human child.
Then in 2016,he cries “alien” again with something
called the “Metepec Creature”, which laterturns out to be a skinned monkey
(07:08):
and a “Demon Fairy”, which turns out to bethe remains of a bat,
wooden sticks,epoxy, and other unknown elements.
Now, I have no ideawhether this guy is a total fraud,
looking for a quick buck,which doesn't seem likely given his long
accomplished career in journalism,or if he just wants to believe so bad
(07:31):
that his skeptic musclehasn't been exercised in a long time.
But whatever the case,he jumps into the Nazca Mummies fray.
And in May of 2017, Peruvian journalistJois Mantilla, accompanied
by a team of scientists sponsored by GaiaTV, arrive in Cusco, Peru,
where the mummies are being held,to start their own investigation.
(07:55):
It's important to note that unlike Jaime,
who has a long history in the ufologyworld, Jois does not.
This is not his usual beat.
So he is starting with a clean slate.
More researchers are getting involvedand more tests are being performed.
And on November 19th, 2018, test resultsare presented to the Peruvian government
(08:18):
in a hearing by independent groupsrepresenting a whole slew
of different disciplinesfrom Peru, Mexico, the US and Canada,
including some pretty heavy hittersin their respective fields.
Their respective conclusions,in a nutshell,
are that whatever these things are,they're not fake.
(08:40):
They don't say they're aliens, just thatfrom what
they've seen so far,they deserve more in-depth study.
Remember now, this is notthe most popular project to be working on.
These guys are putting their reputationof their entire careers on the line.
Now, apparently, before the hearing,the Ministry of Culture,
(09:02):
who I'm going to refer to as the MOCfrom now on was on board to be there.
But for whatever reason,they backed out at the last minute.
Official reactionto the findings of the hearing?
Crickets.
Jump ahead to August 1st, 2019.
Everyone who's been working on this caseto date manages to get four mummies
(09:23):
to the University of Ica in Peru,where they are put through a large battery
of testing from more Peruvian scientists.
Jump ahead again to September of 2023.
Jaime Maussan presents bodiesto the Mexican Congress and says,
“We are not alone.”He is joined by Jose de Jesus Zalce
(09:46):
Benitez, Director of the ScientificInstitute for Health of the Mexican Navy,
who says x rays, 3D reconstruction
and DNA analysishas been carried out on the remains.
They don't have any real answers yet,but they are working on it.
One month later, in October of 2023,
(10:07):
a news story hits almostall of the mainstream media outlets,
showing dressed up versions of smallermummies that had been confiscated
by the MOC from the Lima airportand taken away for testing.
Three months later, so January of 2024,the Ministry holds
(10:27):
a press conference to show off the dollsand proclaim them as fakes.
What they don't tell youis that they have a statement
from the creator of the dollsthat, yeah, he made them.
He lives in the Nazca areaand made the dolls as souvenirs,
hoping to earn a little extra coin.
(10:51):
But the MOC has chosen to keepthat the quiet part
and trot these dress wearing versions outfor the press to say, “See?
These are fake.
So by association, they're all fake.”
And right there with themis their henchman, Flavio Estrada,
an archeologist with Peru's Institutefor Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences.
(11:15):
Jois Mantilla, the Peruvian journalist,actually stands up and challenges
the MOC, essentiallysaying that the ones you have right
there are fakes, but they are not the sameas the ones we have at the University.
But how would you know?
Because you've never bothered to come byand take a look.
Other than these two fakes.
(11:37):
Estrada has never studiedany of the mummies
at the University of ICA or anywhere else.
So how can he see they're fake?
Flavio Estrada's response?
You're a liarand a shill for Jaime Maussan.
If you can't kill the message,kill the messenger.
Then, in April of 2024, an American team
(11:59):
flies to Peru to take their crackat solving the mystery.
The team consists of DoctorJohn McDowell, a forensic odontologist
who worked on identifyingsome of the remains from 911,
and retired professorat the University of Colorado.
Doctor William Rodriguez, a forensicanthropologist with the Maryland
State Medical Examiner, and DoctorJames Caruso, a US Navy veteran
(12:24):
who is now the City of Denver's ChiefMedical Examiner.
And John McDowell's son Josh,
a defense attorney out of ColoradoSprings.
Whatever equipmentthe university doesn't have on hand,
they bring in viathe Peruvian equivalent of U-Haul
so that the scientists don't have to takethe mummies from university property.
(12:46):
They're afraid the MOCis going to try to take the mummies
because they've done it before.
But we'll get to the MOC shenanigansin just a moment.
At the conclusion of their testing,
a big press conference is held on April4th, 2024
to discuss some of the findings, issues,
(13:07):
etc., streaming live worldwide,
when the Ministry of Culture decidesto crash the press conference.
They think one of the mummiesis in the room and they want it.
But they are sorely disappointedto find out they are skunked.
One of their officers takesthe mic and says they are filing
(13:28):
suit to get possession of the mummies.
The reason the scientists don't takethe mummies off the university property
and didn'tbring any of them to the press conference,
is because this is not the first timethe MOC has tried to take the mummies.
The Ministry of Culture has triedseven times
(13:48):
over the years to raid the university,to confiscate the mummies.
But and I love this part.
Because they never answeredthe original notification letter
from Thierry Jamin back in 2017,and never came out to investigate,
the mummies cannot be verified as comingfrom a designated archeological project.
(14:10):
Which means they are not subjectto the Ministry of Culture's jurisdiction.
They have no right to take them.
The university tells them to gopound sand.
November 7th, 2024.,so just this past November,
the rector of the University of Ica, JorgeMoreno Leua,
(14:32):
sends a letter to the Mexican Congresssigned by 11 professors,
certifying the authenticity of the bodiesthey studied.
The letter basically statesthat they have all come to the conclusion
that whatever these things are,they are genuine specimens
of a biological originthat were alive at some point,
(14:55):
and they're not fabricated in any way.
That very night, the rector gets fired.
Also, this past November,the American team goes back down
to Peru to participatein a congressional hearing
on how to proceed in moving forwardwith studying these mummies.
I guessonly time will tell whether or not Peru
(15:17):
decides to go all in or not.
So what is all the drama about?
What makes grown men resortto adult versions of, “I know you are,
but what am I?” Ladies and gentlemen,I present to you the Nazca Mummies.
Maria.
Montserrat.
(15:39):
Wawita.
Victoria.
Alberto.
And there are many more.
According to Mario, over 100.
There are apparently sevendifferent species,
some more human like and talleraround a normal human height
(15:59):
and some more reptilianthat stand like about two feet tall.
All are coveredin this white powdery substance,
which has been determinedto be diatomaceous earth,
which is a naturally occurringsoft sedimentary rock that is composed
of the fossilized remains of diatoms,
(16:20):
tiny aquatic micro-organisms.
You've probably even used itwithout even knowing it.
It's used a lot for thingslike water filtration,
different abrasives like toothpaste,and even as an insecticide.
And it's all over the placein the Nazca desert region.
But to my knowledge,these are the only mummies
discovered to everbe covered in that powder.
(16:43):
But the powder is probablythe reason we still have the mummies
in the generally good conditionthey're in today.
Diatomaceous earth, or DE, is a desiccant.
It absorbs moisture.
Not that moisture is a huge problemin the Nazca desert.
It averages about two millimeters of rainper year.
(17:03):
One of the driest places on Earth.
But still, any moisture that they do getthat could foster
the growth of mold is quashed by the DE.
And remember, it's an insecticide.
So any insect activitythat would have happened, didn't.
So because of that amazing preservation,
we now have several humanoid beingsthat have gone through
(17:26):
various levels of testingin different labs around the world.
One thing to note, though,not all testing is the same.
Not every countryhas the latest and greatest,
which is why the USteam is trying to convince Peru
to let some of themcome to the US for testing.
We can't cover all of them,so I'm going to talk about Maria,
(17:50):
one of the full size mummies, Josefina,
one of the two foot versions, Wawita,an infant
that looks to be the same speciesas Maria, and Montserrat,
another female,a little smaller than Maria.
And just for reference, the DNA testingwhich we will get into more later,
has pegged these mummiesas being about 1800 years old.
(18:13):
The most well known, and the one with,
I think, the most testing is Maria.
She's about 5.5ft tall.
Her bone structure is almost identicalto ours, with a few exceptions.
She has no real visible nose or ears,which is pretty common for mummies,
But the inner structure of the earis different than in humans.
(18:35):
And her hands have three fingerswith four phalanges.
Phalanges are just the finger sections.
Humans have only three.
By the looks of the scans, the jointsbetween the bones are still intact.
Her cranial cavityis 19% larger than a normal human's.
(18:56):
While the practice of head wrappingwas common in ancient Peru,
that only changes the shape,not the capacity.
Also, the thickness of the skullis much thicker than a human's.
And her feet are interesting.
Aside from the factthat she has only three toes on each foot,
they have the same basic bones,but the actual structure is different.
(19:20):
The way her foot is built,it would never step flat onto the ground.
She would only be using her heel and toes
and would have to lean forwardwhile she walked to keep her balance.
And poor Maria had a really bad back.
Maybe from having to lean forwardall the time.
She has one crushedvertebrae and arthritis all over.
(19:43):
Wawita, which means “baby” Quechua,the official language of Peru,
Bolivia and Ecuador, appears to bean infant of the same species as Maria.
There isn't
really a whole lot to say about Wawitathat hasn't already been said about Maria,
but we are going to hear more about Wawitaa little later.
So let's talk about Josefina.
(20:04):
She is a specimen of the two foot variety.
And these guys are different.
Not only do the faceslook different with raised brow ridge.
Their bodies are way different.
Josefinaskeleton has something that no other
vertebrate species on Earth has.
Her spine is in the middle of her body,not against her back,
(20:26):
which is the position of every spinein any other animal on the planet.
And according to the scientistswho examined her, they say that
the space behind her spine at the top,it's part of her digestive system.
Now, the lower part of the spinedoesn't have any room behind it,
and it kind of curves just a bit. Why?
(20:47):
Well, that's the reason we call herJosefina and not Josef.
That curve is the same thingthat our spines do
when we're carrying a baby,as a way to make room as the baby grows.
And you guessed it!
Josefina is carrying eggs.
Which is part of the reasonthese smaller versions are considered
more reptilian than human, but alsobecause the way her neck is built,
(21:12):
there's a possibilitythat it was retractable like a turtle.
Also, her joints are built different.
They're not the round balland socket joints that we have.
They're more like a flat planewhere the bone attaches.
This would make it so all of her jointscould only move forward and backward.
She didn't have the radial range of motionthat we do.
(21:35):
Also, look at her head position.
If the shape of her headis due to head wrapping,
then the place where the spine connects tothe head would remain in the same spot.
But on Josefina it's not.
It's further back on the skull than usual.
Like Maria, Josefina’shands have three fingers.
(21:56):
However, unlike Maria,
Josefina only has three phalangeson her hand and three on her feet.
So just like us.
And she has a bad back, too.
She has spots on her spine that look like
what could have been a paralyzing injury.
But interestingly enough, directlyacross from the area on her front side
(22:18):
is this metal platethat seems to be fused to her skin,
like maybe it's some kind of correctionfor her injury.
The plate is made mostly of copper,
and it's pretty typical for her timeperiod.
Her ribs are not like any speciesthat has ribs.
Usually, ribsoriginate in the back from the spine,
(22:40):
wrap around to the front and attachto a sternum.
Hers go all the way around like a ring.
And oddly enough,she has hollow bones, like a bird.
That's not human or reptile.
So who knows where that comes from?
Lastly, let's take a look at Montserrat.
(23:00):
She's just a little smaller than Mariaand has many of the same characteristics.
But what makes her specialis that unlike Josefina
and her eggs, Monserratis carrying a fetus.
Rafael.
It's a little hard to see him or her,but initial scans show
what looked to be three fingersand toes, just like mom.
(23:24):
So there you have it.
Now we have to try and decide if they arereal beings, or are they hoaxes?
The argument that they're real is, well,they're real.
But the argument for them being fakeswould go something like this.
The huaqueros, tomb raiders,I just love saying that word.
Huaqueros!
(23:47):
found some mummies,
ripped off a couple of fingersand toes, added some extra bones
to make the fingers and toes looknot human, and covered their alterations
with a plaster of diatomaceous earthto hide the evidence of tampering.
Okay, let's go piece by piecethrough the arguments.
And as usual,there are far more rabbit holes
(24:10):
to go down on this onethan I have time to cover.
So we're going to hitthe ones that hit me.
Starting on the outside.
Let's first talk about the DE,the diatomaceous earth
It seems to have undergone some processto make it more of a powder,
which would make it not natural,unless the ancient Peruvians
(24:31):
ground it up themselves.
Which I guess is possible.
But to make DE into a plasterthat would harden to any degree,
to make it into a kind of plasterthat any hoaxer would need
to keep the evidenceof tampering with the body a secret,
it needs to be mixed with a binderlike lime, clay or cement.
(24:52):
But in numerous pictures you can seethe powder flaking off pretty readily.
If the hoaxers are tryingto cover up their misdeeds,
they probably should have picked somethingbetter than DE.
Fluoroscopy scans,which is like a 3D real time
X-ray, were conductedand showed no difference in bone density,
(25:14):
which would most likely show upif the bones were borrowed
from a different bodyor a different animal.
But there are other,more precise tests that can
and should be done to know for sure.
The Russian team found tracesof a chemical called
cadmium chlorideon the surface of the bodies,
(25:34):
which they say only became availablein the mid-19th century as a preservative.
They talk about how Peruviansfrom 1800 years ago
could not have had this chemical, implying
it has to be an advanced race.
However, they never talk aboutwhether or not it's possible
that it could be something donejust recently.
(25:57):
Now I can't really see a single thingthat cadmium chloride is used
for today in Peru that even comes closeto archeology in any way,
so I can't even begin to speculateon how it would get there.
But it's still certainly a possibility.
John Perry from the YouTubechannel Stated Casually,
(26:18):
makes some very interesting observations.
Not only does Maria's facelook an awful lot like any other mummy
from the Peruvian desert,which often lose their soft tissues
like their nose in their ears,but it would not be that hard
to remove the thumband the pinky of each hand
and sever the tissuebetween the remaining three fingers.
(26:40):
You would get basicallywhat Maria's hands look like.
However, Maria has extra phalanges.
But if you're an industrious forgertrying to create something unique,
maybe you add some extras on therefrom other mummies,
like a macabre game of cooties.
(27:01):
Scans of her fingersseem to show that the joint sleeves
between the finger bones are still intact,something that the examiners say
would be next to impossibleto reconstruct.
And X-rays of Maria's feet show a bonestructure very similar to a human's,
except that the calcaneus bone,or what we would call the heel.
(27:23):
Maria's heel does not project backwardslike a normal human's does.
Orthopedists say this would mean
she would not have been ableto plant her foot flat on the ground,
and would have been walkingmainly on her toes and heel,
leaning slightly forwardto keep her center of gravity.
Now, if you have been followingthis subject at all,
(27:44):
you may have heard a bit of adust up over the llama head theory.
In short,many people think that the mummy heads
are the brain casing sectionof a llama skull.
In fact,a video called “Show Me the Mummies”
from the Incredible HistoryYouTube channel even shows footage
of a llama skull that indeedlooks all like the mummy faces.
(28:08):
That just about sold me on itbeing a fake right there and then.
But just to be thorough, I went to a 3Dmodeling website and looked up llama skull
and none of the three different modelsthey had uploaded
look anythinglike what I saw on that YouTube clip.
I even tried Alpaca Skull just for fun,
(28:29):
since they seem to be just smallerversions of the same thing.
But that doesn't look right either.
But I will admit that the llama skulltheory has some merit.
If you want to jump down that rabbit hole,there is a link to a research paper
that talks about itin the list of sources in the description.
This paper from 2021looks specifically at Josefina’s head,
(28:54):
and they do a pretty good jobof going through every part of the skull
and seemingly being honestabout where the llama head theory holds
and where it doesn't.
They even go so far as to commentin the conclusion section,
“Concerningthe remains of the head of Josefina.
They are biological in nature.
(29:14):
At the available resolutionof the CT scanning,
no manipulation of Josefinaskull can be detected.”
But they still conclude in general
that Josefina’s headis the braincase of the llama.
Just a little side dish of interesting.
One of the authors of the paper,Jose de la Cruz Rios Lopez,
(29:37):
a Mexican biologist,
was one of the scientists to testifyin front of the Peruvian government
at their hearing in 2018,in favor of the mummies
being real unknown entitiesworthy of further study.
Then three years later, comes outwith this paper that says Josefina’s
head is a llama skull,and has since retracted that stance
(30:01):
and has jumped back into the real entitycamp. Wow.
While we're on the subject of Josefine,let's talk about those eggs.
In the X-ray, they're pretty hard to miss.
Bright white, egg shaped circles.
But let's take a look at anotherreptile x ray.
Here's the x ray of a turtlewho is carrying eggs.
(30:24):
Noticethe difference between the two x rays.
Eggs are not solid in an x ray.
So I don't know what Josefina is carrying,but they don't look like eggs.
Now that we're talking about babies,
let's get back to Wawita.
Here is where the major cracksstart for me.
(30:47):
The hoaxer theories claimis that the three fingered hands are made
by taking a real mummy,taking off the thumb and the pinky,
and slicingbetween the fingers down to the wrist.
When I startedto look at the scans of Wawita,
I can't help but noticethe areas of both her hands and her feet
(31:07):
that look likesomething has been torn away.
Not to mention the picturethat actually shows a row of four
phalanges on her right hand,when logically there should only be three.
Looking at these scans, it's pretty hardnot to see
wherethe thumbs and pinky fingers used to be.
(31:28):
So let's
look at some of the other issueswhile we're at it.
Josephine seems to have some random bone
just stuck right into her elbow.
Maybe all those scientists are missinga few things.
They spend a lot of time looking througheach section and talking about how,
you know, like having eggs and surrounding
(31:49):
abdominal tissue would be hard to fake.
Same with the head.
And I totally get thatI may have missed a lecture or two,
but telling me that it would be hardto fake an abdomen isn't helpful,
because a forger’s not goingto reconstruct the thing from scratch.
They're going to splice togetherthings they already have on hand.
(32:11):
But okay, let's get to the juicy part.
The DNA.
Samples were actually sentto a few different places.
By the way, the-alien-project.com
is like the official sitefor the real camp
that has all the scans and X-raysand test results that you can go look at.
(32:35):
So the website shows that Maria
only shared about 30% of her DNAwith humans.
To put that into perspective, humansshare 50% of our DNA
with turnips, so 30% is pretty dang low.
That number comes from the testing doneat the lab in Mexico.
(32:55):
However, the reportgenerated about the samples that were sent
to Canada states that the DNA
is highly contaminated.
In fact, according to them, every samplethey tested
contained both female and male DNA.
Here's the best part.
The lab can pretty confidentlysay that the samples taken from Maria
(33:19):
from one of her vertebraeand from one of her
left toes,that those two come from the same person.
However,they cannot say with any certainty
that the sample from the palm of her righthand belongs to the same person.
Not to mention, there was an initial groupof researchers from Great Britain
(33:40):
who were invited by the Inkarri Instituteto come
and look at the mummiesvery early on in the process.
They took their own DNA samplesand had them analyzed.
Steve Mera, who headed up that group, says
the results that they got backwere confusing at first.
They didn't make any sense.
That is, until they figured outthat the sample they had taken from
(34:02):
one of Maria's phalanges had different DNA
then that from the very next phalange.
Both human, but two different humans.
So needless to say, this whole thing
is feeling more than a little sketch.
Then start adding in more information,
(34:24):
like the fact that nobody knowswhere these mummies came from.
Mario has takena select few people to the cave,
but those people say there is no waythat's where the mummies were.
That the place is nowhere nearbig enough for all of them.
But that's not stopping Mariofrom continuing
to charge people thousands of dollarsto take tour groups to that same location.
(34:49):
We know the huaqueros
are still
sellingmummies on the black market to this day.
That's big businessin their part of the world.
We're talking seven figuresfor one of these things.
And at least two groups of researchers
had to pay Mario money just to see Maria.
(35:10):
They obviously only care about cashing in.
And given that it seems to be working,
what's more likely -that these tomb raiders found some mummies
and want to lend them to scienceto be studied for humanity?
Or that they have a taxidermy shop
set up somewhere creating alien mummiesas fast as they can.
(35:32):
And it's not just the huaqueros.
Remember, Jaime Maussan?
Our over exuberant journalistwho just wants to believe so much
that he's easily been duped twice before?
Well, he posted on X a quote from DoctorJohn McDowell
from the American teamwho went down to Peru last April.
(35:54):
The post starts with the quote from Dr.
McDowell, but then goes on to addthe names of some of the mummies,
Including Victoria, who'sone of the smaller two foot versions.
So Jaime just lumped them all together,inferring that the quote from Dr.
McDowell coversthat whole list as being real.
(36:16):
The problem is that the American teamnever looked at the smaller mummies.
When the good doctor is asked aboutthe inference
made by Jaimeand about the smaller mummies..
he respondswith, “It would be foolish to state that
these bodies could represent individualsthat could have been alive,
let alonecapable of walking, flying, or swimming.
(36:40):
Pleasedo not infer that we said otherwise.”
So Jaime doesn't look quite so innocentthis time.
Between him and the huaqueros
I think there's plenty of shadeto go around.
Once you add in the laughable DNAresults, the fact
(37:02):
that Wawita and Josefinaare almost certainly fakes,
and if they're fakes, you have to assumethat the others are fakes.
All that together leads me to believethey're fakes.
I wanted so much to believe they are real.
But this time, I just can't.
(37:23):
But here's what I don't understand.
Why would all the other researchers
risk their careers by signing off on this?
Obviously, none of them are sayingthese are alien beings,
just that there's enough smokethat it's worth looking for a fire.
I gotta admit, the sheer numberof academics involved in this project
(37:48):
willing to testify before governmentcommittees to try to move
the ball of scientific study further downthe court,
makes me wonderif there really is something there.
Maybe being humanisn't quite what we all think it is.
(38:08):
I know, I know.
I can't believe that I have to admitthat I think they're fakes.
But I gotta be real, right?
If you think I'm wrong,that I've misread the room
somehow, feel freeto let me know in the comments.
If I hear of any gamechanging news in the future,
I'll be sure to let you knowin one of our members only updates.
(38:30):
But for now, if you want to continueyour Quincy Quest, click right here.
Come on. It'll be fun.
Be careful out there,
and I will see you here againon The InBetween.
Huaqueros!
Thanks for tuning into The InBetween Podcast.
(38:52):
Enjoy the full visual experiencewith me over on YouTube.
Just search for @TheInBetweentales.
I'm Carol Ann,and until next time, be careful
out there.
Strange mysteries, unexplained phenomena.
And the shadows in between.
This is The InBetween Official Podcastwith your host,
Carol Ann!
It's 2016.
Tomb raiders in Peru'sNazca desert uncover something
(00:37):
impossible - mummies with three fingeredhands, retractable
necksand DNA less human than a turnip. Now,
it sparked an international scientific warthat's still raging to this day.
Are they proof of extraterrestrials?
An ancient, unknown species?
Or the greatest hoax ever perpetrated?
(00:59):
Welcome to The InBetween.
I'm Carol Ann,and we are about to find out.
don't.
All right.
I'm going to start offby telling you that this story starts
like this.
Morphs into this.
(01:23):
and eventually degenerates into this.
We are traveling todayall the way to Peru.
Peru is no stranger to mummies.
They're all over the place.
Some of you may be familiar with the 1927discovery of 429 mummies
on the Paracas Peninsula of Peru.
(01:45):
Now, a quick search of Paracasin Wikipedia will take you to a page
that talks all about the Paracas culture
and their frequentuse of skull modification.
In short, just like the Japaneselike to practice foot binding,
the Peruvians like to wrap the headsof their babies to make them conehead.
Greetings.
(02:06):
No big deal.
It doesn't really change anything like IQor cranial capacity.
Just a different shape.
And those cone head skulls are not reallyeven all that uncommon.
They've been found in Hungary,ancient Germanic regions,
ancient Iranian regions, and even Sweden.
What Wikipedia doesn't seemto want to talk about
(02:27):
are what have become knownas the Paracas skulls.
At first glance, they look likeany other modified mummy skull.
But this particular groupof skulls is different.
Not only do some of them have red hair,they have extra chiseled cheekbones
and no sagittal sutureon the top of their head.
(02:47):
But they also have a cranial capacity way
bigger than humans, like 30% bigger.
So all of that is to set the stagefor the drama
that began to unfoldaround the end of 2016, around 120 miles
to the southeast of the Paracas Peninsulain the Nazca region of Peru.
(03:08):
Yup. That Nazca.
Same area where you can find those famousNazca lines, the super huge
drawings in the sandthat you can only really see from the air.
Now, just for reference, just over 300
miles to the northeast of Nazcais Machu Picchu.
So this whole little area here is rife
(03:28):
with ancient historyand priceless artifacts.
As you might imagine,Nazca is not the wealthiest area of Peru.
They do okay for themselves, but it's notan economic powerhouse by any stretch.
So what do you getwhen you add a mediocre, at best economy
and a priceless artifact rich environment?
(03:49):
Huaqueros, or tomb raiders.
I seriously doubt they look like that.
Relics of ancient civilizationsand even entire mummies
are big black market business in Peru.
So it's not exactly the rarest thingin the world for people to make a side
hustle out of finding
(04:10):
and selling anythingthat they can find out in the arid desert.
The first character in our little dramais Paul R.
Paul approachesa French guy named Thierry Jamin,
who is a well known archeologist in Peru
and president of the Inkarri Institute.
He contacts Thierry and says, hey,asking for a friend?
(04:34):
Are you interested inlooking at these super funky alien
looking mummies we found?
After chatting for a while,we find out that the friend is Mario,
not his real name.
His real name would later be discoveredto be Leandro Benedicto Rivera.
Let's just stick with Mario.
More negotiationsensue, and Paul and Mario
(04:54):
finally agreedto bring some of their samples to Thierry.
Remember thatthese guys are basically confessing
to a crime here,so they are covering their butts big time.
Antiquities theft in Peru is a big no no.
Mario tells Thierry that he and his crewfound a whole bunch of these things
(05:14):
in some caves in the mountains,somewhere between Nazca and Palpa.
Thierry takes the samples aroundfor some preliminary testing
and being satisfied that,at least on a surface level,
they seem to be legit,he fires off a letter in early 2017
to the Peruvian Ministry of Culture,asking they've heard about this.
(05:36):
Without waiting for a response whendoes the government do anything quickly?
- Thierry heads down to the Nazca areaof Peru to see the rest of the collection.
He and his team bring backa couple of small mummified heads
and a larger hand for X-ray analysisin February of 2017.
Based on those results,they start crowdfunding to raise money
(06:00):
for DNA and carbon 14 testing to be done.
It only takes a monthbefore they hit over 125% of their goal.
At the beginning of April 2017,several samples are taken from
two of these tiny mummified bodiesand sent to various labs
around the world for testing.
This is when Jaime Maussan entersthe picture.
(06:23):
Maussan has had a long awardwinning career in journalism in Mexico.
He is the face of the Mexican versionof 60 Minutes,
and he's had a showfor like 20 years on UFO investigations.
However,he kind of muddies the waters in this case
because of his past involvementin a couple of other cases.
(06:45):
In 2015, he led an event called “BeWitness”, where event organizers
unveil a mummified bodyclaiming it to be an alien child.
The mummified corpse was lateridentified as a human child.
Then in 2016,he cries “alien” again with something
called the “Metepec Creature”, which laterturns out to be a skinned monkey
(07:08):
and a “Demon Fairy”, which turns out to bethe remains of a bat,
wooden sticks,epoxy, and other unknown elements.
Now, I have no ideawhether this guy is a total fraud,
looking for a quick buck,which doesn't seem likely given his long
accomplished career in journalism,or if he just wants to believe so bad
(07:31):
that his skeptic musclehasn't been exercised in a long time.
But whatever the case,he jumps into the Nazca Mummies fray.
And in May of 2017, Peruvian journalistJois Mantilla, accompanied
by a team of scientists sponsored by GaiaTV, arrive in Cusco, Peru,
where the mummies are being held,to start their own investigation.
(07:55):
It's important to note that unlike Jaime,
who has a long history in the ufologyworld, Jois does not.
This is not his usual beat.
So he is starting with a clean slate.
More researchers are getting involvedand more tests are being performed.
And on November 19th, 2018, test resultsare presented to the Peruvian government
(08:18):
in a hearing by independent groupsrepresenting a whole slew
of different disciplinesfrom Peru, Mexico, the US and Canada,
including some pretty heavy hittersin their respective fields.
Their respective conclusions,in a nutshell,
are that whatever these things are,they're not fake.
(08:40):
They don't say they're aliens, just thatfrom what
they've seen so far,they deserve more in-depth study.
Remember now, this is notthe most popular project to be working on.
These guys are putting their reputationof their entire careers on the line.
Now, apparently, before the hearing,the Ministry of Culture,
(09:02):
who I'm going to refer to as the MOCfrom now on was on board to be there.
But for whatever reason,they backed out at the last minute.
Official reactionto the findings of the hearing?
Crickets.
Jump ahead to August 1st, 2019.
Everyone who's been working on this caseto date manages to get four mummies
(09:23):
to the University of Ica in Peru,where they are put through a large battery
of testing from more Peruvian scientists.
Jump ahead again to September of 2023.
Jaime Maussan presents bodiesto the Mexican Congress and says,
“We are not alone.”He is joined by Jose de Jesus Zalce
(09:46):
Benitez, Director of the ScientificInstitute for Health of the Mexican Navy,
who says x rays, 3D reconstruction
and DNA analysishas been carried out on the remains.
They don't have any real answers yet,but they are working on it.
One month later, in October of 2023,
(10:07):
a news story hits almostall of the mainstream media outlets,
showing dressed up versions of smallermummies that had been confiscated
by the MOC from the Lima airportand taken away for testing.
Three months later, so January of 2024,the Ministry holds
(10:27):
a press conference to show off the dollsand proclaim them as fakes.
What they don't tell youis that they have a statement
from the creator of the dollsthat, yeah, he made them.
He lives in the Nazca areaand made the dolls as souvenirs,
hoping to earn a little extra coin.
(10:51):
But the MOC has chosen to keepthat the quiet part
and trot these dress wearing versions outfor the press to say, “See?
These are fake.
So by association, they're all fake.”
And right there with themis their henchman, Flavio Estrada,
an archeologist with Peru's Institutefor Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences.
(11:15):
Jois Mantilla, the Peruvian journalist,actually stands up and challenges
the MOC, essentiallysaying that the ones you have right
there are fakes, but they are not the sameas the ones we have at the University.
But how would you know?
Because you've never bothered to come byand take a look.
Other than these two fakes.
(11:37):
Estrada has never studiedany of the mummies
at the University of ICA or anywhere else.
So how can he see they're fake?
Flavio Estrada's response?
You're a liarand a shill for Jaime Maussan.
If you can't kill the message,kill the messenger.
Then, in April of 2024, an American team
(11:59):
flies to Peru to take their crackat solving the mystery.
The team consists of DoctorJohn McDowell, a forensic odontologist
who worked on identifyingsome of the remains from 911,
and retired professorat the University of Colorado.
Doctor William Rodriguez, a forensicanthropologist with the Maryland
State Medical Examiner, and DoctorJames Caruso, a US Navy veteran
(12:24):
who is now the City of Denver's ChiefMedical Examiner.
And John McDowell's son Josh,
a defense attorney out of ColoradoSprings.
Whatever equipmentthe university doesn't have on hand,
they bring in viathe Peruvian equivalent of U-Haul
so that the scientists don't have to takethe mummies from university property.
(12:46):
They're afraid the MOCis going to try to take the mummies
because they've done it before.
But we'll get to the MOC shenanigansin just a moment.
At the conclusion of their testing,
a big press conference is held on April4th, 2024
to discuss some of the findings, issues,
(13:07):
etc., streaming live worldwide,
when the Ministry of Culture decidesto crash the press conference.
They think one of the mummiesis in the room and they want it.
But they are sorely disappointedto find out they are skunked.
One of their officers takesthe mic and says they are filing
(13:28):
suit to get possession of the mummies.
The reason the scientists don't takethe mummies off the university property
and didn'tbring any of them to the press conference,
is because this is not the first timethe MOC has tried to take the mummies.
The Ministry of Culture has triedseven times
(13:48):
over the years to raid the university,to confiscate the mummies.
But and I love this part.
Because they never answeredthe original notification letter
from Thierry Jamin back in 2017,and never came out to investigate,
the mummies cannot be verified as comingfrom a designated archeological project.
(14:10):
Which means they are not subjectto the Ministry of Culture's jurisdiction.
They have no right to take them.
The university tells them to gopound sand.
November 7th, 2024.,so just this past November,
the rector of the University of Ica, JorgeMoreno Leua,
(14:32):
sends a letter to the Mexican Congresssigned by 11 professors,
certifying the authenticity of the bodiesthey studied.
The letter basically statesthat they have all come to the conclusion
that whatever these things are,they are genuine specimens
of a biological originthat were alive at some point,
(14:55):
and they're not fabricated in any way.
That very night, the rector gets fired.
Also, this past November,the American team goes back down
to Peru to participatein a congressional hearing
on how to proceed in moving forwardwith studying these mummies.
I guessonly time will tell whether or not Peru
(15:17):
decides to go all in or not.
So what is all the drama about?
What makes grown men resortto adult versions of, “I know you are,
but what am I?” Ladies and gentlemen,I present to you the Nazca Mummies.
Maria.
Montserrat.
(15:39):
Wawita.
Victoria.
Alberto.
And there are many more.
According to Mario, over 100.
There are apparently sevendifferent species,
some more human like and talleraround a normal human height
(15:59):
and some more reptilianthat stand like about two feet tall.
All are coveredin this white powdery substance,
which has been determinedto be diatomaceous earth,
which is a naturally occurringsoft sedimentary rock that is composed
of the fossilized remains of diatoms,
(16:20):
tiny aquatic micro-organisms.
You've probably even used itwithout even knowing it.
It's used a lot for thingslike water filtration,
different abrasives like toothpaste,and even as an insecticide.
And it's all over the placein the Nazca desert region.
But to my knowledge,these are the only mummies
discovered to everbe covered in that powder.
(16:43):
But the powder is probablythe reason we still have the mummies
in the generally good conditionthey're in today.
Diatomaceous earth, or DE, is a desiccant.
It absorbs moisture.
Not that moisture is a huge problemin the Nazca desert.
It averages about two millimeters of rainper year.
(17:03):
One of the driest places on Earth.
But still, any moisture that they do getthat could foster
the growth of mold is quashed by the DE.
And remember, it's an insecticide.
So any insect activitythat would have happened, didn't.
So because of that amazing preservation,
we now have several humanoid beingsthat have gone through
(17:26):
various levels of testingin different labs around the world.
One thing to note, though,not all testing is the same.
Not every countryhas the latest and greatest,
which is why the USteam is trying to convince Peru
to let some of themcome to the US for testing.
We can't cover all of them,so I'm going to talk about Maria,
(17:50):
one of the full size mummies, Josefina,
one of the two foot versions, Wawita,an infant
that looks to be the same speciesas Maria, and Montserrat,
another female,a little smaller than Maria.
And just for reference, the DNA testingwhich we will get into more later,
has pegged these mummiesas being about 1800 years old.
(18:13):
The most well known, and the one with,
I think, the most testing is Maria.
She's about 5.5ft tall.
Her bone structure is almost identicalto ours, with a few exceptions.
She has no real visible nose or ears,which is pretty common for mummies,
But the inner structure of the earis different than in humans.
(18:35):
And her hands have three fingerswith four phalanges.
Phalanges are just the finger sections.
Humans have only three.
By the looks of the scans, the jointsbetween the bones are still intact.
Her cranial cavityis 19% larger than a normal human's.
(18:56):
While the practice of head wrappingwas common in ancient Peru,
that only changes the shape,not the capacity.
Also, the thickness of the skullis much thicker than a human's.
And her feet are interesting.
Aside from the factthat she has only three toes on each foot,
they have the same basic bones,but the actual structure is different.
(19:20):
The way her foot is built,it would never step flat onto the ground.
She would only be using her heel and toes
and would have to lean forwardwhile she walked to keep her balance.
And poor Maria had a really bad back.
Maybe from having to lean forwardall the time.
She has one crushedvertebrae and arthritis all over.
(19:43):
Wawita, which means “baby” Quechua,the official language of Peru,
Bolivia and Ecuador, appears to bean infant of the same species as Maria.
There isn't
really a whole lot to say about Wawitathat hasn't already been said about Maria,
but we are going to hear more about Wawitaa little later.
So let's talk about Josefina.
(20:04):
She is a specimen of the two foot variety.
And these guys are different.
Not only do the faceslook different with raised brow ridge.
Their bodies are way different.
Josefinaskeleton has something that no other
vertebrate species on Earth has.
Her spine is in the middle of her body,not against her back,
(20:26):
which is the position of every spinein any other animal on the planet.
And according to the scientistswho examined her, they say that
the space behind her spine at the top,it's part of her digestive system.
Now, the lower part of the spinedoesn't have any room behind it,
and it kind of curves just a bit. Why?
(20:47):
Well, that's the reason we call herJosefina and not Josef.
That curve is the same thingthat our spines do
when we're carrying a baby,as a way to make room as the baby grows.
And you guessed it!
Josefina is carrying eggs.
Which is part of the reasonthese smaller versions are considered
more reptilian than human, but alsobecause the way her neck is built,
(21:12):
there's a possibilitythat it was retractable like a turtle.
Also, her joints are built different.
They're not the round balland socket joints that we have.
They're more like a flat planewhere the bone attaches.
This would make it so all of her jointscould only move forward and backward.
She didn't have the radial range of motionthat we do.
(21:35):
Also, look at her head position.
If the shape of her headis due to head wrapping,
then the place where the spine connects tothe head would remain in the same spot.
But on Josefina it's not.
It's further back on the skull than usual.
Like Maria, Josefina’shands have three fingers.
(21:56):
However, unlike Maria,
Josefina only has three phalangeson her hand and three on her feet.
So just like us.
And she has a bad back, too.
She has spots on her spine that look like
what could have been a paralyzing injury.
But interestingly enough, directlyacross from the area on her front side
(22:18):
is this metal platethat seems to be fused to her skin,
like maybe it's some kind of correctionfor her injury.
The plate is made mostly of copper,
and it's pretty typical for her timeperiod.
Her ribs are not like any speciesthat has ribs.
Usually, ribsoriginate in the back from the spine,
(22:40):
wrap around to the front and attachto a sternum.
Hers go all the way around like a ring.
And oddly enough,she has hollow bones, like a bird.
That's not human or reptile.
So who knows where that comes from?
Lastly, let's take a look at Montserrat.
(23:00):
She's just a little smaller than Mariaand has many of the same characteristics.
But what makes her specialis that unlike Josefina
and her eggs, Monserratis carrying a fetus.
Rafael.
It's a little hard to see him or her,but initial scans show
what looked to be three fingersand toes, just like mom.
(23:24):
So there you have it.
Now we have to try and decide if they arereal beings, or are they hoaxes?
The argument that they're real is, well,they're real.
But the argument for them being fakeswould go something like this.
The huaqueros, tomb raiders,I just love saying that word.
Huaqueros!
(23:47):
found some mummies,
ripped off a couple of fingersand toes, added some extra bones
to make the fingers and toes looknot human, and covered their alterations
with a plaster of diatomaceous earthto hide the evidence of tampering.
Okay, let's go piece by piecethrough the arguments.
And as usual,there are far more rabbit holes
(24:10):
to go down on this onethan I have time to cover.
So we're going to hitthe ones that hit me.
Starting on the outside.
Let's first talk about the DE,the diatomaceous earth
It seems to have undergone some processto make it more of a powder,
which would make it not natural,unless the ancient Peruvians
(24:31):
ground it up themselves.
Which I guess is possible.
But to make DE into a plasterthat would harden to any degree,
to make it into a kind of plasterthat any hoaxer would need
to keep the evidenceof tampering with the body a secret,
it needs to be mixed with a binderlike lime, clay or cement.
(24:52):
But in numerous pictures you can seethe powder flaking off pretty readily.
If the hoaxers are tryingto cover up their misdeeds,
they probably should have picked somethingbetter than DE.
Fluoroscopy scans,which is like a 3D real time
X-ray, were conductedand showed no difference in bone density,
(25:14):
which would most likely show upif the bones were borrowed
from a different bodyor a different animal.
But there are other,more precise tests that can
and should be done to know for sure.
The Russian team found tracesof a chemical called
cadmium chlorideon the surface of the bodies,
(25:34):
which they say only became availablein the mid-19th century as a preservative.
They talk about how Peruviansfrom 1800 years ago
could not have had this chemical, implying
it has to be an advanced race.
However, they never talk aboutwhether or not it's possible
that it could be something donejust recently.
(25:57):
Now I can't really see a single thingthat cadmium chloride is used
for today in Peru that even comes closeto archeology in any way,
so I can't even begin to speculateon how it would get there.
But it's still certainly a possibility.
John Perry from the YouTubechannel Stated Casually,
(26:18):
makes some very interesting observations.
Not only does Maria's facelook an awful lot like any other mummy
from the Peruvian desert,which often lose their soft tissues
like their nose in their ears,but it would not be that hard
to remove the thumband the pinky of each hand
and sever the tissuebetween the remaining three fingers.
(26:40):
You would get basicallywhat Maria's hands look like.
However, Maria has extra phalanges.
But if you're an industrious forgertrying to create something unique,
maybe you add some extras on therefrom other mummies,
like a macabre game of cooties.
(27:01):
Scans of her fingersseem to show that the joint sleeves
between the finger bones are still intact,something that the examiners say
would be next to impossibleto reconstruct.
And X-rays of Maria's feet show a bonestructure very similar to a human's,
except that the calcaneus bone,or what we would call the heel.
(27:23):
Maria's heel does not project backwardslike a normal human's does.
Orthopedists say this would mean
she would not have been ableto plant her foot flat on the ground,
and would have been walkingmainly on her toes and heel,
leaning slightly forwardto keep her center of gravity.
Now, if you have been followingthis subject at all,
(27:44):
you may have heard a bit of adust up over the llama head theory.
In short,many people think that the mummy heads
are the brain casing sectionof a llama skull.
In fact,a video called “Show Me the Mummies”
from the Incredible HistoryYouTube channel even shows footage
of a llama skull that indeedlooks all like the mummy faces.
(28:08):
That just about sold me on itbeing a fake right there and then.
But just to be thorough, I went to a 3Dmodeling website and looked up llama skull
and none of the three different modelsthey had uploaded
look anythinglike what I saw on that YouTube clip.
I even tried Alpaca Skull just for fun,
(28:29):
since they seem to be just smallerversions of the same thing.
But that doesn't look right either.
But I will admit that the llama skulltheory has some merit.
If you want to jump down that rabbit hole,there is a link to a research paper
that talks about itin the list of sources in the description.
This paper from 2021looks specifically at Josefina’s head,
(28:54):
and they do a pretty good jobof going through every part of the skull
and seemingly being honestabout where the llama head theory holds
and where it doesn't.
They even go so far as to commentin the conclusion section,
“Concerningthe remains of the head of Josefina.
They are biological in nature.
(29:14):
At the available resolutionof the CT scanning,
no manipulation of Josefinaskull can be detected.”
But they still conclude in general
that Josefina’s headis the braincase of the llama.
Just a little side dish of interesting.
One of the authors of the paper,Jose de la Cruz Rios Lopez,
(29:37):
a Mexican biologist,
was one of the scientists to testifyin front of the Peruvian government
at their hearing in 2018,in favor of the mummies
being real unknown entitiesworthy of further study.
Then three years later, comes outwith this paper that says Josefina’s
head is a llama skull,and has since retracted that stance
(30:01):
and has jumped back into the real entitycamp. Wow.
While we're on the subject of Josefine,let's talk about those eggs.
In the X-ray, they're pretty hard to miss.
Bright white, egg shaped circles.
But let's take a look at anotherreptile x ray.
Here's the x ray of a turtlewho is carrying eggs.
(30:24):
Noticethe difference between the two x rays.
Eggs are not solid in an x ray.
So I don't know what Josefina is carrying,but they don't look like eggs.
Now that we're talking about babies,
let's get back to Wawita.
Here is where the major cracksstart for me.
(30:47):
The hoaxer theories claimis that the three fingered hands are made
by taking a real mummy,taking off the thumb and the pinky,
and slicingbetween the fingers down to the wrist.
When I startedto look at the scans of Wawita,
I can't help but noticethe areas of both her hands and her feet
(31:07):
that look likesomething has been torn away.
Not to mention the picturethat actually shows a row of four
phalanges on her right hand,when logically there should only be three.
Looking at these scans, it's pretty hardnot to see
wherethe thumbs and pinky fingers used to be.
(31:28):
So let's
look at some of the other issueswhile we're at it.
Josephine seems to have some random bone
just stuck right into her elbow.
Maybe all those scientists are missinga few things.
They spend a lot of time looking througheach section and talking about how,
you know, like having eggs and surrounding
(31:49):
abdominal tissue would be hard to fake.
Same with the head.
And I totally get thatI may have missed a lecture or two,
but telling me that it would be hardto fake an abdomen isn't helpful,
because a forger’s not goingto reconstruct the thing from scratch.
They're going to splice togetherthings they already have on hand.
(32:11):
But okay, let's get to the juicy part.
The DNA.
Samples were actually sentto a few different places.
By the way, the-alien-project.com
is like the official sitefor the real camp
that has all the scans and X-raysand test results that you can go look at.
(32:35):
So the website shows that Maria
only shared about 30% of her DNAwith humans.
To put that into perspective, humansshare 50% of our DNA
with turnips, so 30% is pretty dang low.
That number comes from the testing doneat the lab in Mexico.
(32:55):
However, the reportgenerated about the samples that were sent
to Canada states that the DNA
is highly contaminated.
In fact, according to them, every samplethey tested
contained both female and male DNA.
Here's the best part.
The lab can pretty confidentlysay that the samples taken from Maria
(33:19):
from one of her vertebraeand from one of her
left toes,that those two come from the same person.
However,they cannot say with any certainty
that the sample from the palm of her righthand belongs to the same person.
Not to mention, there was an initial groupof researchers from Great Britain
(33:40):
who were invited by the Inkarri Instituteto come
and look at the mummiesvery early on in the process.
They took their own DNA samplesand had them analyzed.
Steve Mera, who headed up that group, says
the results that they got backwere confusing at first.
They didn't make any sense.
That is, until they figured outthat the sample they had taken from
(34:02):
one of Maria's phalanges had different DNA
then that from the very next phalange.
Both human, but two different humans.
So needless to say, this whole thing
is feeling more than a little sketch.
Then start adding in more information,
(34:24):
like the fact that nobody knowswhere these mummies came from.
Mario has takena select few people to the cave,
but those people say there is no waythat's where the mummies were.
That the place is nowhere nearbig enough for all of them.
But that's not stopping Mariofrom continuing
to charge people thousands of dollarsto take tour groups to that same location.
(34:49):
We know the huaqueros
are still
sellingmummies on the black market to this day.
That's big businessin their part of the world.
We're talking seven figuresfor one of these things.
And at least two groups of researchers
had to pay Mario money just to see Maria.
(35:10):
They obviously only care about cashing in.
And given that it seems to be working,
what's more likely -that these tomb raiders found some mummies
and want to lend them to scienceto be studied for humanity?
Or that they have a taxidermy shop
set up somewhere creating alien mummiesas fast as they can.
(35:32):
And it's not just the huaqueros.
Remember, Jaime Maussan?
Our over exuberant journalistwho just wants to believe so much
that he's easily been duped twice before?
Well, he posted on X a quote from DoctorJohn McDowell
from the American teamwho went down to Peru last April.
(35:54):
The post starts with the quote from Dr.
McDowell, but then goes on to addthe names of some of the mummies,
Including Victoria, who'sone of the smaller two foot versions.
So Jaime just lumped them all together,inferring that the quote from Dr.
McDowell coversthat whole list as being real.
(36:16):
The problem is that the American teamnever looked at the smaller mummies.
When the good doctor is asked aboutthe inference
made by Jaimeand about the smaller mummies..
he respondswith, “It would be foolish to state that
these bodies could represent individualsthat could have been alive,
let alonecapable of walking, flying, or swimming.
(36:40):
Pleasedo not infer that we said otherwise.”
So Jaime doesn't look quite so innocentthis time.
Between him and the huaqueros
I think there's plenty of shadeto go around.
Once you add in the laughable DNAresults, the fact
(37:02):
that Wawita and Josefinaare almost certainly fakes,
and if they're fakes, you have to assumethat the others are fakes.
All that together leads me to believethey're fakes.
I wanted so much to believe they are real.
But this time, I just can't.
(37:23):
But here's what I don't understand.
Why would all the other researchers
risk their careers by signing off on this?
Obviously, none of them are sayingthese are alien beings,
just that there's enough smokethat it's worth looking for a fire.
I gotta admit, the sheer numberof academics involved in this project
(37:48):
willing to testify before governmentcommittees to try to move
the ball of scientific study further downthe court,
makes me wonderif there really is something there.
Maybe being humanisn't quite what we all think it is.
(38:08):
I know, I know.
I can't believe that I have to admitthat I think they're fakes.
But I gotta be real, right?
If you think I'm wrong,that I've misread the room
somehow, feel freeto let me know in the comments.
If I hear of any gamechanging news in the future,
I'll be sure to let you knowin one of our members only updates.
(38:30):
But for now, if you want to continueyour Quincy Quest, click right here.
Come on. It'll be fun.
Be careful out there,
and I will see you here againon The InBetween.
Huaqueros!
Thanks for tuning into The InBetween Podcast.
(38:52):
Enjoy the full visual experiencewith me over on YouTube.
Just search for @TheInBetweentales.
I'm Carol Ann,and until next time, be careful
out there.
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