April 23, 2024 • 37 mins
In this episode, Ami Polonsky joins Jennifer to discuss the power of storytelling and the importance of accessible reading. They explore how being a teacher influences Ami's storytelling and how her books empower young readers to make a difference. They also discuss the relevance of stories like World Made of Glass in today's world and the need for diverse voices in literature. Ami shares her upcoming project, a companion book to World Made of Glass, and reflects on the challenges and importance of writing hopeful stories in difficult times.
Show notes and other information related to this episode (including a discount code from Bookelicious) can be found here.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Reader Identity
03:00 The Importance of Accessible Reading
08:00 The Influence of Teaching on Storytelling
13:00 World Made of Glass and the Power of Stories
19:00 Writing for Change and Empowering Kids
25:00 The Need for Stories in Challenging Times
29:00 Upcoming Projects and the Importance of Hope
35:44 The Journey of Writing a Book
36:14 The Power of Books
36:38 Upcoming Book Release
37:05 Enjoyable Conversation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There are people who think reading graphic novels isn't really quote unquote reading or that rereading isn't reading or that audio books aren't reading.
And I think that what the,
the only thing that matters is that kids are connecting to books and that they are loving books.
(00:30):
Hi,
everyone.
And welcome to the Reader's heart,
a podcast of conversations with authors and illustrators about children's literature as a vehicle for empathy and joy in a dark world.
The reader's heart is rooted in the belief that our world needs the magic of children's literature now more than ever.
So let's get started this week.
(00:51):
My guest is Amy Polonski.
Amy is the first guest on the Reader's heart who wears the dual hats of being both a teacher of young people and an author of books for young people.
Amy works with fifth through eighth graders and their teachers on reading and writing and she's devoted to guiding Children towards a love of books and helping create lifetime readers.
(01:15):
She's the author of middle grade novels with Great Big Hearts As Spin with Me Gracefully Grayson and one of my all time favorite books,
World Made Of Glass,
which we talk a lot about during this episode.
But before we get there,
as always,
don't forget to stick around until the end of the episode.
(01:35):
For more information,
including a discount code from our friends at Book Alicious.
Hi,
Amy.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
It's a delight to meet you.
So nice to meet you.
You and thank you so much for having me.
I am so excited about our conversation because as I've already said to you before the show began,
I'm such a huge fan of your work and in particular,
(01:57):
your most recent book World Made of Class.
I have read the book several times wept every single time and we will get into that more later.
But if for those of you who are listening to this show,
if you haven't read it,
pause the show right now and go correct that error,
you can come back after you have read it.
(02:21):
Um,
in the meantime,
for those who have,
I love to start our shows by talking a little bit about our readers hearts.
And I wondered if you might just kick us off by sharing a little bit about who you are as a reader.
Absolutely.
So the question of who I am as a reader is,
it's very near and dear to my heart as a kid.
I actually only sort of felt like a reader.
(02:43):
There were a few books that really grabbed me and one of them was Autumn Street by Lois Lowry.
I don't know if you,
oh,
yes.
Yes.
So,
I mean,
it's really interesting because I read this book over and over as a middle schooler and I've reread it as an adult mostly because I've been trying to figure out why I was so drawn to it,
(03:04):
why the book spoke to me like it did.
And it's,
it's super interesting because I can't,
100% figure out what this,
what this book purpose was in my life.
But it was something because I read it so many times and,
you know,
if I had to guess,
I think it,
maybe it has something to do with like the importance of place of,
of a location,
(03:25):
sort of being almost like its own character and how frame an era of your life.
But I'm not sure the main character character of the book is she's a privileged girl in all the obvious ways,
like she's a financially stable white girl,
which is what I was.
But back in the eighties,
when I loved the book,
it was less common to talk about identity and privileges,
(03:46):
like noticing the layers of class and the role of race that surrounded her.
And she was feeling like these intense feelings about loss and different.
I don't know,
just feeling different from the people around her.
So I was drawn to that.
Um So I guess I was a reader then,
but I didn't read super widely if that makes sense.
Um So I always say that I became a true reader when I became an English teacher,
(04:10):
which was almost 25 years ago.
And this is also where I became a writer and it was being a reader that led me to be a writer.
So I was teaching at a Chicago public school school called Ahan Elementary School.
And yeah,
so I taught sixth grade English and this is where I came to know the middle grade novels that I had sort of missed out on in the nineties because I was in high school and college during the nineties,
(04:32):
which was when there was a real sort of early boom in the world of middle grade literature.
So when I started teaching in 19,
I think it was 1999 or maybe it was 2000.
That was my first year.
That's when I found Maniac mcgee and the giver and the Watsons go to Birmingham and I was surrounded by all these 11 and 12 year olds all day.
And in these novels,
(04:52):
the kids were making sense of their lives in the same way that I wanted my students to.
So I read these books over and over with my students and I loved the books so much.
I think,
I don't know,
I think some of my enthusiasm must have rubbed off on my students because,
yeah,
I mean,
we have these discussion groups and then reading started to just have sort of the sacred feel in my classroom,
(05:14):
which I loved so much.
And,
I don't know,
I had this old green and white striped couch and we'd sit there and we'd talk about the books and it was like this really old Chicago public schools classroom with high ceilings and wood floors and it just felt like very real.
And in the books,
the characters were making choices and they were making changes to their world,
you know,
(05:34):
and in their lives and the kids had control in the,
in the books,
these kids had control in their worlds.
And so this is where I really started to feel like I was living my own life in connection to books and sort of like,
really becoming a reader,
I guess because in the books,
the characters are always on a mission to figure stuff out.
And this,
I guess what life in general felt like to me,
it felt like that was the purpose of,
(05:55):
of life and what I wanted for my students to be actively thinking and evaluating their worlds.
And so,
and having control and making choices.
So anyway,
I was teaching them to read and to connect to characters.
But I think I was also reinforcing my own understanding of those skills and like,
actually becoming legitimate reader.
At that point.
I have so much to say about what you just shared.
(06:17):
I mean,
first of all,
as someone who taught middle school for 17 years in some capacity.
A I love those kids so much and I just could relate to everything that you were sharing.
My classroom,
had a couch in it too.
And I just remember,
you know,
sitting there,
uh,
mine was like a weird burgundy but with kids and,
(06:39):
you know,
and I love the way you framed reading as sort of this sacred part of what you did every day with kids.
And that just speaks to my own reader's heart.
But I also wanted to touch on something that you said,
I love the way you talked about reading the same book over and over and over again,
(06:59):
which is such a valid reading experience.
But that sometimes in school,
we discourage kids from doing,
especially if we don't feel the book is like,
you know,
good literature and people can't see me putting that in,
in air quotes right now.
But,
you know,
there's some judgment around what kids read in school sometimes.
And,
(07:20):
um,
because you wear the dual hat of being both an author for kids and somebody who works with kids in an instructional way as an educator,
I just wonder if you might speak to that in terms of these like weird expectations that we have around kid kids reading for sure,
because I know just what you're talking about.
(07:41):
There are people who think reading graphic novels isn't really quote unquote reading or that rereading isn't reading or that audio books aren't reading.
And right,
I think that what the,
the only thing that matters is that kids are connecting to books and that they are loving books and that's,
I think you'll probably agree with me.
(08:02):
We're probably biased in the same way as English teachers.
But I mean,
I feel like if you look at a child's middle school career,
like,
I feel like that's the most important thing that a kid can come out of school healing is that they can connect to books and that they love books and that they're readers because I think it,
if that's in place,
then anything else is possible.
(08:22):
So the idea that rereading is quote unquote bad.
I mean,
I think that's ridiculous.
I think I've also seen research showing that like rereading books actually is really good for kids and same thing with audio books.
I mean,
it,
it's,
first of all,
I think listening to audio books fills.
So it,
it,
it connects kids to books who sometimes might not really enjoy reading.
(08:46):
You know,
there's so many students I've worked with who love reading by listening to audio books,
but the actual task of decoding words is very tedious for them for,
you know,
a multitude of reasons.
So if you can get those kids listening to audio books,
then they're reading and they're,
they're,
and they're loving what they're reading.
I mean,
I have this image of one of my students,
(09:08):
a couple of years ago listening to Refugee by Alan Brats on audio and just,
you know,
this,
he was a very squirrelly kind of squirmy kid.
And,
um,
he was just completely still and sort of staring into space as he's listening to this book.
Like you could just tell that he was,
he was like watching a movie of this novel in his mind and to say that there's anything bad about that is just so mind blowing to me.
(09:34):
And then,
you know,
the idea that graphic novels are not quote unquote real just blows my mind too.
Like I know you have so many opinions like the what matters is that kids are loving books.
Like,
yeah,
that,
that's what matters.
Yeah,
I mean,
if we want them to attain some sort of reading stamina or the I,
(09:57):
I mean,
I'm gonna,
again,
I'm doing air quotes but the grit to tackle uh reading when it's challenging,
there has to be motivation there.
Like motivation is the fuel that leads to these other things and when a kid that's it.
Yeah.
And when a kid doesn't identify as a reader who isn't motivated to read or doesn't see how story can play a relevant role in their life,
(10:22):
then those tasks become even harder and dare.
I say impossible.
So these two things are branches from this same tree.
Kids need both a love of reading through choice,
reading,
et cetera and skills to become blue and it's not one or the other,
which is such a silly point,
you know,
it's like anything else.
There's not a lot of binaries in this world,
(10:43):
there are not a lot of things that are just black and white,
you know,
and,
and reading is certainly one of them.
Totally agree.
Yeah.
Well,
let we,
I feel like you and I could just have a separate podcast just on that and maybe we'll put that on our radar for another year,
another day or whatever.
But,
um,
I feel like you've already touched on this a little bit,
(11:03):
but because I'm such a,
my nerdy teacher,
middle school teacher heart is so in tune with what you're saying,
I have to believe that your own books are in some way informed by your students as well,
if only in the sense that you might think about how they might react to them,
et cetera.
I,
I wonder if you might talk a little bit about how being a teacher informs your,
(11:25):
your storytelling.
Yes,
absolutely.
So,
I would say,
you know,
first of all,
having been in the classroom in some capacity for most of the past 25 years,
um,
I've sort of been with the kids helped me understand how kids are,
who exist in certain eras.
So,
you know,
the kids I taught 25 years ago,
(11:48):
they're,
they're very different.
They were,
you know,
as six,
as sixth graders,
they were very different than the sixth graders I work with now and so different.
There were not iphones back then.
I mean,
they,
they,
the kids didn't have computers,
like,
it was a very,
very different time.
So,
the thing is though,
I think at the core,
the sort of like the developmental stage that each,
(12:10):
that sixth graders or that middle schoolers are at,
whether it's the year 2000 or whether it's today it's,
there's there,
it's the same,
you know,
like where they're at developmentally is the same.
So being with kids,
I guess so much,
both as a mom and as an educator,
it helps me to understand where the kids are and where,
where in their life trajectories,
(12:31):
we sort of as like the adults guiding them,
want them to be so,
but not in like a dogmatic,
heavy handed way.
Basically the middle schoolers I work with now when I think of them in general,
what I feel like I want from them is to be able to move towards being,
you know,
thoughtful listeners and patient thinkers.
But there's also sort of that ever present battle of being a middle schooler,
(12:54):
which is that you are always trying to figure out how to stand out how,
how do you blend in with the crowd when you sort of maybe want to stand out from the crowd a little bit,
like in a good way and you're trying to navigate that sort of balance of how to do that.
And that's always been present in middle school aged kids.
(13:14):
So,
yes,
if I wasn't surrounded by kids,
I think that writing would,
for them would be right now would be a lot more difficult.
I mean,
it's,
it's important to know sort of what they like and what they're drawn to in terms of even,
you know,
when I think of Spin with me,
um Spin with me has really short chapters.
It's very,
you know,
it's a fast paced book in that regard,
(13:36):
like each chapter is pretty tiny.
And that was sort of a direct response to this feeling that like,
ok,
we need to meet kids where they're at and maybe they are sort of,
you know,
they're,
they're less patient than they used to be because they're used to a much more fast paced world.
So to meet them where they're at,
like,
let's,
let's try something like this and then,
you know,
we can do things like start to stretch their attention span and their et cetera.
(14:00):
So then,
then I'm going to transition then to World Made of Glass and think about how in that book for those who haven't read it,
that book is set in the eighties,
which is,
I shudder to say now considered historical fiction that feels like a personal attack every time I say that.
(14:21):
Um,
and so why don't you first tell our listeners what that book is about?
Just give us a little book,
talk about it?
And then what I want to think about is um when you were writing it,
like why you chose that era and you know,
that kind of thing thinking about your students or just in general,
whether it was a time you wanted to unpack.
(14:42):
Yeah,
for sure.
So World Made of glass is about Iris.
Um Iris is in seventh grade.
Um and it's the,
it's the spring of her seventh grade year when the book starts and her parents have been amicably divorced,
um,
for a while now,
I think at that point a little over a year and she is,
she lives um in Manhattan and she lives in an apartment building,
(15:05):
um,
primary with her mom um on the eighth floor but her dad who she adores and has a great relationship with and his partner Jr moved into an apartment four floors up so that they could sort of be an kind of an unconventional family in a sense together.
But Iris starts out the book having vowed forevermore to despise Jr because,
(15:27):
you know,
of course,
as 1/7 grader,
she sees him as,
you know,
the thing that came between her parents,
even though of course exactly how it happened.
So anyway,
um it's 1987 and,
um,
her dad and Jr both have a I DS and it's the sort of the beginning of the public's awareness of A I DS and there,
(15:50):
I mean,
there still is but there was to,
to such a huge degree,
so much,
um,
stigma and discrimination.
Um,
in the eighties,
I mean,
the most of the people who were impacted by HIV and A I DS were marginalized people,
they were gay men,
they were,
um,
intravenous drug,
drug users and the government's response to this,
(16:14):
to this new virus that they were,
you know,
that they were just starting to see was very dismissive.
Um,
you know,
when we think about the early days of COVID,
we certainly there,
there were differences of,
of quote unquote opinion and how to handle the early days of COVID.
(16:34):
But at the same time,
you couldn't deny that everyone sort of saw this as like something to be talked about.
And in the early days of A I DS,
it was not,
that was not the case and the government just,
you know,
turned,
turned a blind eye until they were forced until the government and the pharmaceutical companies were sort of forced to,
um do otherwise.
(16:54):
And the way that that change change came about was,
um,
you know,
there were a lot of,
a lot of things that,
that made that change,
one of which was grassroots advocacy such as backup,
which was,
and still is a,
um,
a group of activists who came together in Greenwich Village in the spring of 87.
(17:18):
And um,
and basically,
they,
they were totally furious and they were,
it was a lot of um gay men and a lot of their allies and family members and they were dying and nobody cared.
Um,
you know,
nobody in power cared.
And so they,
over the years kind of forced the pharmaceutical companies in the government to,
(17:39):
to look at this issue and it took way longer than it should have.
But eventually,
um,
you know,
obviously now there's,
uh,
medical treatment for HIV that,
you know,
if you're someone who has HIV and is able to sort of reliably take your medication,
you can live a very normal life.
So,
um a lot of that is due to act up.
So Iris finds herself in the midst of all of this.
(18:01):
She is just coming to realize that her,
the reason why her dad and then eventually Jr are dying is literally because they're gay.
Like if this virus was impacting a group of straight men,
the response would have been very different.
People saw this as their fault or some sort of a punishment for being deviant or whatever,
(18:21):
whatever it may be.
So she's furious as she comes to learn that she becomes increasingly furious.
And the book is about her journey.
Um It's,
you know,
it's not a spoiler to say that her dad guys because that happens early on in the book.
And then she and Jr find she,
she,
she comes around on,
on the Jr front and starts to love him.
And so basically,
(18:42):
it's about her journey into becoming an uh,
an advocate and then an ally who takes action.
She and she finds her community of people who are equally furious and,
like,
desperate to find a way to channel their anger into action.
That's the thing about the book.
I mean,
it's a heavy topic.
I mean,
(19:03):
there's,
it's a two box of tissue book.
I mean,
there's definitely some sorrow to be unpacked,
but there's also this piece of it that's so empowering.
You know,
Iris and her friends,
they find a way to channel their grief and their outrage into something that's positive and that empowers them to have a voice and to try to change a world that they come to realize is unjust.
(19:31):
And so for me,
like,
I think there's so many,
even though it takes place like 40 plus years ago,
it is,
there's so many lessons for today's kids who may be feeling the same way about our world right now just in a different context.
And I wonder if that was part of your journey in writing it at all?
(19:55):
Just thinking about giving kids some guidance there.
Definitely.
I mean,
the two things that sort of converged that led me to want to write this book were first of all,
co and so,
you know,
I was thinking as,
as we were in like the very early days of COVID that actually when I was back when I was in seventh grade,
I,
there was another pandemic that was happening,
(20:16):
but it just,
of course,
felt so far removed from me.
And a lot of that was because of how the media was reporting on it and of all the biases at all the way in my own community,
you know,
from um my family,
my school,
like everything around me was just,
you know,
it was 1987 and people didn't talk about things,
(20:36):
you know,
it was like,
oh,
well,
if it doesn't personally impact you,
let's just ignore it the way we got our news and the access that I as a 12 year old had to information was so different.
So,
um I thought about that a lot during those early days of COVID and sort of compared in my mind how the government responded to a pandemic that impact,
(21:00):
that impacted everybody.
And I put that in air quotes sort of too because,
you know,
I think all,
all pandemics impact everybody whether you're directly ill or not.
But,
you know,
just comparing how that felt to what I knew about the early days of A I DS.
So,
um that sort of converged with my own feelings of rage allyship,
(21:24):
I suppose you can say to,
you know,
as I have a close family member who is transgender and everything that Iris felt sort of that ragey,
that ragey feeling about like,
how unfair,
how unjust,
like,
how could this be happening to somebody that I love so much?
Like I channeled that all very easily from my own experience in the role of an,
(21:48):
of an ally to trans kids.
So those two,
those two things came together,
the pandemic and the rage that I felt as an ally and sort of figuring out too,
like as an ally to trans kids.
Like what do you do with this immense anger and feeling of injustice?
Because as the,
(22:10):
it's my role,
you know,
is a cisgender ally,
it's my role to not,
you know,
I can feel that anger but I can't let that interfere with my allyship because that's just unfair,
right?
Like I have to stuff that anger so that I can do the work so that trans kids don't have to do that on their own.
(22:31):
So that was what sort of created Iris and her story.
And I do hope that kids see the relevance today in,
you know,
the idea of making change,
sort of at the level that you are able in your life at that moment to make change.
So,
um you know,
(22:52):
as you sort of mentioned,
Iris and her friends figure out some things that they can do at,
you know,
at the school level to start to bring about change.
And I love the idea of empowering kids to look around their world.
And you know,
if you notice something as a kid,
I,
I remember as a kid at least like looking around my world constantly and being like,
(23:13):
that's unfair.
That's unfair.
This other thing is unfair.
I was always sort of on the lookout for what was unjust and it would make me very angry but I didn't have any tools to do anything with that.
You know,
I'd see teachers doing things or saying things that I knew were not fair in one way or another or other adults.
And I think as a kid you often feel and as an adult too,
(23:35):
to be honest,
you often feel like,
well,
you know,
what can I do there?
I don't know what to do about that.
I don't know how to do anything about that.
And I don't want kids to feel like that.
I want them to feel like if they feel that something is unfair or unjust,
they're probably on to something and how can they feel empowered to make a change if it's something that's worth fighting for and,
and books?
(23:55):
I mean,
not only yours but others do such a great job of modeling what that can look like and not just within the pages of the story,
but frankly on the cover too,
I'm speaking for myself here mostly,
although I think we're aligned,
you know,
as a person of privilege,
a white cisgender woman,
you know,
(24:15):
I have power that other communities may not.
And if I really want to be an ally,
then I have to use that power in a way that gives other communities power as well,
right?
So just by virtue of the fact that as someone who clearly is talented at writing books,
(24:36):
who has a publisher and an agent,
all of those things,
you know,
you could write about anything,
but you're choosing to write these stories that may help to redistribute power in a more equitable way,
which I think is a powerful,
powerful example for kids in and of itself beyond the story,
the story.
Yes,
(24:56):
but also just on the cover that this person is choosing to use their privilege in this way.
I think that's really powerful.
Thank you for that.
Well,
I,
you know,
and in 2024 I must say 2023 but in 2024 and beyond,
it feels like we need more examples of this than ever.
You know,
where we were talking before the show,
(25:17):
you know,
we're living in a time where there's organized efforts to make it less,
you know,
to reduce access to not only stories like these,
but stories that were written by an illustration it did created by people from historically marginalized communities where there's efforts to make the number of stories that kids have access to far fewer and more homogenized.
(25:41):
And so it just feels like,
you know,
right now,
these conversations and the books that you're writing,
they just feel more important than ever.
I don't know about you.
But,
you know,
I worry about what uh the world that we're creating right now.
And you know,
I don't know if there's so much a question here,
so much is just commiserating about the fact that I feel like we need these stories now more than ever.
(26:05):
Yeah.
I,
I worry about it,
you know,
all day and,
and into most of the nights as well.
It just seems so,
so apocalyptic to me and,
you know,
like we need these stories and they're,
they're still being created but then it's like there's this roadblock where it's like so many kids who need them.
(26:26):
Yeah.
And like literally can't access them anymore.
And it's just so I,
I don't know,
it's like this is where I start to spin because it's like you can do certain things and,
and we can fight these fights and you know,
and I try to channel Iris.
It's like,
ok cha change did not,
changes can be slow and that.
(26:48):
So I sort of don't like saying that sometimes because I think it can make you then sort of OK being a little bit lazy about things,
which is not my purpose in saying that change can be slow,
but just like this understanding that we're so frantic and we're so angry and we're so we so know how and why these kids need the access to the media that they need.
(27:09):
But like we,
we can't expect to see everything change tomorrow.
Like we have to have stamina,
I guess as we,
as we fight this,
but it's just,
I don't know,
it just,
it is very discouraging because it's like,
every time something happens,
you think,
like,
ok,
things,
our country can't get,
things,
can't get worse than this.
And then,
(27:29):
you know,
two days later there's something else and you suddenly it does.
Yeah.
You're like,
wow,
like,
how is it possible that we just keep on the downward trajectory?
It's just,
it's a lot,
I mean,
I'm sure that,
as you said,
I'm sure that we're similar in that I would imagine we're probably both awake at 3 a.m. you know,
kind of,
(27:50):
I don't know just,
but this is where,
you know,
stories like world made of glass and others,
you know,
are so important,
not just for kids,
I think,
but also for us because they remind me that,
you know,
in line with what you were saying about how sometimes change is like painfully slow.
I try to remind myself that all big changes occur one big step.
(28:14):
I mean,
one small step at a time,
like they all occur incrementally like it might seem like this massive change,
but things don't shift seismically in one step.
Usually it takes many,
many small steps and we all have the power to affect the world within arm's reach,
(28:34):
you know.
So if you think about it in a more micro way,
it becomes a little more manageable,
a little less,
you know,
possible.
And I feel like stories like irises and others help those are,
those are just good reminders of that,
you know,
because I think giving up is what folks on the other side of this argument,
(28:57):
hope we'll do.
They hope it'll feel hopeless and that will just give up,
you know.
Um Yeah,
I know.
But it's,
it's hard for people who are so drawn to stories like us because in a story,
it's like what makes the story good is that it has a resolution.
So I think like in our lives,
we're looking at this current story of,
you know,
American history and we're like,
(29:18):
we're dying for this resolution.
Like we want to see a,
a thing that,
that makes it end.
And then,
like you said,
I sort of remind myself that Iris's story started in 1987 and it was decades before,
you know,
things really changed in such a way that we can look back at it and say,
(29:41):
OK,
so this happened fed up started and that led to this,
this and this,
but we forget the decades of time that passed because it doesn't make for a good story to just say,
ok,
and then they also just sat in this angst and misery and they didn't give up,
but they sat in it for years and years and years.
That's hard to hear it is.
(30:02):
It is.
But that also like makes me then want to know if um to whatever degree you are able,
I,
I really want to know what you're working on next.
Do you,
are you able to share anything that?
OK.
Go,
I see you nodding.
So,
yeah,
tell me what,
what's happening next.
OK.
So I my next book is coming out in October.
(30:24):
It's called Every story ever told.
And it's a companion to a world made of glass.
I think my heart just exploded.
That is amazing.
Yay.
So it's,
but it's also very heavy and I actually have just decided very recently that like the next book I write is going to,
first of all,
I'm going to give myself a break.
The next book I write is going to be something happy because I think I'm sort of like slowly killing myself here.
(30:49):
But it's sort of a modern day companion.
Iris is all grown up and she has a daughter named Stevie Jane,
named after her grandpas.
And the,
the story about Stevie Jane and um it's about gun violence.
So basically the back story to the story is that I grew up in Highland Park,
Illinois,
which is where the 4th 4th of July mass shooting was a year and a half ago.
(31:12):
And I was at my home when that happened,
waiting for a friend to come pick me up because we had plans to go into the downtown area of Highland Park to go to a restaurant to eat.
And I got a text from my mom and she's,
the text was like,
there's an active shooter,
downtown Highland Park.
And this is where I lived my whole life.
So I think,
like,
growing up in a town,
like,
um,
you know,
the fact that I walked around the area where mass shooting happened when I was four years old,
(31:37):
like,
it's just,
it feels even different.
I think that it would feel if it happened in the town that I live in now.
Like,
my connection to that felt,
it felt different and the fact that I was like,
sort of like almost going to be going there.
Um And on top of those things and more of those than,
than that,
the fact that several people I knew were there.
Um,
and they,
(31:57):
the people that I knew who were there,
my close friends who were there were not in physically injured.
So it's like I was experiencing all these things like this intense relief and then like this guilt that I was feeling relieved when all these people were not ok or all of that.
So,
basically,
I selfishly thought to myself that the next book that I wanted to write,
(32:21):
this is before I had started,
it was going to be about a mass shooting.
And I say selfishly because I thought that by writing about it,
I could sort of like,
write my way out of the trauma that I process it.
Yeah,
like it was like a secondary trauma and because I think that's why I write everything is sort of like as a way to,
to process things,
et cetera.
(32:42):
So I sort of selfishly slash stupidly thought that writing about this would help.
And so I sold the proposal and I sat down to write and I found myself in this,
like,
I mean,
read,
it was so traumatic writing the book.
Like I wrote so many and I had to write it three times because I couldn't get it because it was so traumatic.
(33:06):
And I just sort of like lived in this trauma of Stevie Jane Bean at this mass shooting.
I will tell you right off the bat.
Iris is fine.
She does get injured,
but she's fine.
I would never kill off Iris.
But thank you as an Iris fan.
I appreciate that.
Right.
So,
but the story is basically about Stevie Jane,
(33:26):
first of all,
trying to process like,
how do you,
how do you exist in,
in this world where there's so much uncertainty and there's so much just random violence and danger.
And so she,
Iris is in the hospital and Stevie Jane and her best friend,
Avi are staying with her grandparents,
great grandma,
Sarah and grandpa Bob.
And she goes on this sort of like PTSD infused journey,
(33:52):
um sort of sneak out of the apartment with her friend and her new emotional support dog Raisin.
She,
she's on a journey to basically to alleviate her guilt.
She feels like her mom got shot because of the few moments beforehand that led up to the shooting that placed Iris exactly where she was and Stevie Jane in a different location and she's trying to alleviate her guilt.
(34:16):
So,
the book We in other stories that exist in the world,
Jane has a neighbor who's a holocaust survivor who she's close with.
So Evelyn's stories come into play and the stories of her grandpas Steven and Jr and her mom's stories of activism as a kid.
And I'd like to think,
you know,
I do think it's,
it's,
(34:36):
there's a hopefulness at the end.
You know,
it's a middle,
of course,
it's going to be hopeful in the end,
but it was really,
really hard to,
it was infinitely harder to write than I thought it would be.
And I,
I just now I'm sort of,
I'm like,
sort of now digging myself a little bit out of this world of just like,
(34:58):
I mean,
it's just,
it's scary,
you know,
living in this world and like this fear,
you know,
sending my kids out into the world.
It's like this constant fear.
There's also a lesson there about,
you know,
just because there's light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean the tunnel isn't hard to navigate and scary and it feels endless sometimes,
you know.
So,
(35:19):
um I appreciate you being transparent about that and I'm so grateful that you're continuing to write these stories that our world really seems to need.
Sadly right now.
And you know,
I'm so grateful you're out there doing this work.
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
(35:47):
That's it for this week's episode of the Reader's heart.
Thank you so much for tuning in y'all for more information about this week's episode,
including ways to connect with Amy,
as well as a discount code for purchasing her books through book Alicious are available at Library girl.net.
This podcast was created written and recorded by me Jennifer Lagarde.
All rights reserved.
(36:08):
Our theme music was created by Comma media and is available for free at Pix A Bay's Royal T Free Music Repository.
And the gorgeous illustration for our show was created by Karina Lukin.
If you enjoyed the show,
gosh,
I hope you'll hit that subscribe button and then leave us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts.
Believe it or not,
these small steps make a big difference in helping the reader's heart find its audience.
(36:33):
Thank you again for listening.
We'll see you next time and until then happy reading y'all.
There are people who think reading graphic novels isn't really quote unquote reading or that rereading isn't reading or that audio books aren't reading.
And I think that what the,
the only thing that matters is that kids are connecting to books and that they are loving books.
(00:30):
Hi,
everyone.
And welcome to the Reader's heart,
a podcast of conversations with authors and illustrators about children's literature as a vehicle for empathy and joy in a dark world.
The reader's heart is rooted in the belief that our world needs the magic of children's literature now more than ever.
So let's get started this week.
(00:51):
My guest is Amy Polonski.
Amy is the first guest on the Reader's heart who wears the dual hats of being both a teacher of young people and an author of books for young people.
Amy works with fifth through eighth graders and their teachers on reading and writing and she's devoted to guiding Children towards a love of books and helping create lifetime readers.
(01:15):
She's the author of middle grade novels with Great Big Hearts As Spin with Me Gracefully Grayson and one of my all time favorite books,
World Made Of Glass,
which we talk a lot about during this episode.
But before we get there,
as always,
don't forget to stick around until the end of the episode.
(01:35):
For more information,
including a discount code from our friends at Book Alicious.
Hi,
Amy.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
It's a delight to meet you.
So nice to meet you.
You and thank you so much for having me.
I am so excited about our conversation because as I've already said to you before the show began,
I'm such a huge fan of your work and in particular,
(01:57):
your most recent book World Made of Class.
I have read the book several times wept every single time and we will get into that more later.
But if for those of you who are listening to this show,
if you haven't read it,
pause the show right now and go correct that error,
you can come back after you have read it.
(02:21):
Um,
in the meantime,
for those who have,
I love to start our shows by talking a little bit about our readers hearts.
And I wondered if you might just kick us off by sharing a little bit about who you are as a reader.
Absolutely.
So the question of who I am as a reader is,
it's very near and dear to my heart as a kid.
I actually only sort of felt like a reader.
(02:43):
There were a few books that really grabbed me and one of them was Autumn Street by Lois Lowry.
I don't know if you,
oh,
yes.
Yes.
So,
I mean,
it's really interesting because I read this book over and over as a middle schooler and I've reread it as an adult mostly because I've been trying to figure out why I was so drawn to it,
(03:04):
why the book spoke to me like it did.
And it's,
it's super interesting because I can't,
100% figure out what this,
what this book purpose was in my life.
But it was something because I read it so many times and,
you know,
if I had to guess,
I think it,
maybe it has something to do with like the importance of place of,
of a location,
(03:25):
sort of being almost like its own character and how frame an era of your life.
But I'm not sure the main character character of the book is she's a privileged girl in all the obvious ways,
like she's a financially stable white girl,
which is what I was.
But back in the eighties,
when I loved the book,
it was less common to talk about identity and privileges,
(03:46):
like noticing the layers of class and the role of race that surrounded her.
And she was feeling like these intense feelings about loss and different.
I don't know,
just feeling different from the people around her.
So I was drawn to that.
Um So I guess I was a reader then,
but I didn't read super widely if that makes sense.
Um So I always say that I became a true reader when I became an English teacher,
(04:10):
which was almost 25 years ago.
And this is also where I became a writer and it was being a reader that led me to be a writer.
So I was teaching at a Chicago public school school called Ahan Elementary School.
And yeah,
so I taught sixth grade English and this is where I came to know the middle grade novels that I had sort of missed out on in the nineties because I was in high school and college during the nineties,
(04:32):
which was when there was a real sort of early boom in the world of middle grade literature.
So when I started teaching in 19,
I think it was 1999 or maybe it was 2000.
That was my first year.
That's when I found Maniac mcgee and the giver and the Watsons go to Birmingham and I was surrounded by all these 11 and 12 year olds all day.
And in these novels,
(04:52):
the kids were making sense of their lives in the same way that I wanted my students to.
So I read these books over and over with my students and I loved the books so much.
I think,
I don't know,
I think some of my enthusiasm must have rubbed off on my students because,
yeah,
I mean,
we have these discussion groups and then reading started to just have sort of the sacred feel in my classroom,
(05:14):
which I loved so much.
And,
I don't know,
I had this old green and white striped couch and we'd sit there and we'd talk about the books and it was like this really old Chicago public schools classroom with high ceilings and wood floors and it just felt like very real.
And in the books,
the characters were making choices and they were making changes to their world,
you know,
(05:34):
and in their lives and the kids had control in the,
in the books,
these kids had control in their worlds.
And so this is where I really started to feel like I was living my own life in connection to books and sort of like,
really becoming a reader,
I guess because in the books,
the characters are always on a mission to figure stuff out.
And this,
I guess what life in general felt like to me,
it felt like that was the purpose of,
(05:55):
of life and what I wanted for my students to be actively thinking and evaluating their worlds.
And so,
and having control and making choices.
So anyway,
I was teaching them to read and to connect to characters.
But I think I was also reinforcing my own understanding of those skills and like,
actually becoming legitimate reader.
At that point.
I have so much to say about what you just shared.
(06:17):
I mean,
first of all,
as someone who taught middle school for 17 years in some capacity.
A I love those kids so much and I just could relate to everything that you were sharing.
My classroom,
had a couch in it too.
And I just remember,
you know,
sitting there,
uh,
mine was like a weird burgundy but with kids and,
(06:39):
you know,
and I love the way you framed reading as sort of this sacred part of what you did every day with kids.
And that just speaks to my own reader's heart.
But I also wanted to touch on something that you said,
I love the way you talked about reading the same book over and over and over again,
(06:59):
which is such a valid reading experience.
But that sometimes in school,
we discourage kids from doing,
especially if we don't feel the book is like,
you know,
good literature and people can't see me putting that in,
in air quotes right now.
But,
you know,
there's some judgment around what kids read in school sometimes.
And,
(07:20):
um,
because you wear the dual hat of being both an author for kids and somebody who works with kids in an instructional way as an educator,
I just wonder if you might speak to that in terms of these like weird expectations that we have around kid kids reading for sure,
because I know just what you're talking about.
(07:41):
There are people who think reading graphic novels isn't really quote unquote reading or that rereading isn't reading or that audio books aren't reading.
And right,
I think that what the,
the only thing that matters is that kids are connecting to books and that they are loving books and that's,
I think you'll probably agree with me.
(08:02):
We're probably biased in the same way as English teachers.
But I mean,
I feel like if you look at a child's middle school career,
like,
I feel like that's the most important thing that a kid can come out of school healing is that they can connect to books and that they love books and that they're readers because I think it,
if that's in place,
then anything else is possible.
(08:22):
So the idea that rereading is quote unquote bad.
I mean,
I think that's ridiculous.
I think I've also seen research showing that like rereading books actually is really good for kids and same thing with audio books.
I mean,
it,
it's,
first of all,
I think listening to audio books fills.
So it,
it,
it connects kids to books who sometimes might not really enjoy reading.
(08:46):
You know,
there's so many students I've worked with who love reading by listening to audio books,
but the actual task of decoding words is very tedious for them for,
you know,
a multitude of reasons.
So if you can get those kids listening to audio books,
then they're reading and they're,
they're,
and they're loving what they're reading.
I mean,
I have this image of one of my students,
(09:08):
a couple of years ago listening to Refugee by Alan Brats on audio and just,
you know,
this,
he was a very squirrelly kind of squirmy kid.
And,
um,
he was just completely still and sort of staring into space as he's listening to this book.
Like you could just tell that he was,
he was like watching a movie of this novel in his mind and to say that there's anything bad about that is just so mind blowing to me.
(09:34):
And then,
you know,
the idea that graphic novels are not quote unquote real just blows my mind too.
Like I know you have so many opinions like the what matters is that kids are loving books.
Like,
yeah,
that,
that's what matters.
Yeah,
I mean,
if we want them to attain some sort of reading stamina or the I,
(09:57):
I mean,
I'm gonna,
again,
I'm doing air quotes but the grit to tackle uh reading when it's challenging,
there has to be motivation there.
Like motivation is the fuel that leads to these other things and when a kid that's it.
Yeah.
And when a kid doesn't identify as a reader who isn't motivated to read or doesn't see how story can play a relevant role in their life,
(10:22):
then those tasks become even harder and dare.
I say impossible.
So these two things are branches from this same tree.
Kids need both a love of reading through choice,
reading,
et cetera and skills to become blue and it's not one or the other,
which is such a silly point,
you know,
it's like anything else.
There's not a lot of binaries in this world,
(10:43):
there are not a lot of things that are just black and white,
you know,
and,
and reading is certainly one of them.
Totally agree.
Yeah.
Well,
let we,
I feel like you and I could just have a separate podcast just on that and maybe we'll put that on our radar for another year,
another day or whatever.
But,
um,
I feel like you've already touched on this a little bit,
(11:03):
but because I'm such a,
my nerdy teacher,
middle school teacher heart is so in tune with what you're saying,
I have to believe that your own books are in some way informed by your students as well,
if only in the sense that you might think about how they might react to them,
et cetera.
I,
I wonder if you might talk a little bit about how being a teacher informs your,
(11:25):
your storytelling.
Yes,
absolutely.
So,
I would say,
you know,
first of all,
having been in the classroom in some capacity for most of the past 25 years,
um,
I've sort of been with the kids helped me understand how kids are,
who exist in certain eras.
So,
you know,
the kids I taught 25 years ago,
(11:48):
they're,
they're very different.
They were,
you know,
as six,
as sixth graders,
they were very different than the sixth graders I work with now and so different.
There were not iphones back then.
I mean,
they,
they,
the kids didn't have computers,
like,
it was a very,
very different time.
So,
the thing is though,
I think at the core,
the sort of like the developmental stage that each,
(12:10):
that sixth graders or that middle schoolers are at,
whether it's the year 2000 or whether it's today it's,
there's there,
it's the same,
you know,
like where they're at developmentally is the same.
So being with kids,
I guess so much,
both as a mom and as an educator,
it helps me to understand where the kids are and where,
where in their life trajectories,
(12:31):
we sort of as like the adults guiding them,
want them to be so,
but not in like a dogmatic,
heavy handed way.
Basically the middle schoolers I work with now when I think of them in general,
what I feel like I want from them is to be able to move towards being,
you know,
thoughtful listeners and patient thinkers.
But there's also sort of that ever present battle of being a middle schooler,
(12:54):
which is that you are always trying to figure out how to stand out how,
how do you blend in with the crowd when you sort of maybe want to stand out from the crowd a little bit,
like in a good way and you're trying to navigate that sort of balance of how to do that.
And that's always been present in middle school aged kids.
(13:14):
So,
yes,
if I wasn't surrounded by kids,
I think that writing would,
for them would be right now would be a lot more difficult.
I mean,
it's,
it's important to know sort of what they like and what they're drawn to in terms of even,
you know,
when I think of Spin with me,
um Spin with me has really short chapters.
It's very,
you know,
it's a fast paced book in that regard,
(13:36):
like each chapter is pretty tiny.
And that was sort of a direct response to this feeling that like,
ok,
we need to meet kids where they're at and maybe they are sort of,
you know,
they're,
they're less patient than they used to be because they're used to a much more fast paced world.
So to meet them where they're at,
like,
let's,
let's try something like this and then,
you know,
we can do things like start to stretch their attention span and their et cetera.
(14:00):
So then,
then I'm going to transition then to World Made of Glass and think about how in that book for those who haven't read it,
that book is set in the eighties,
which is,
I shudder to say now considered historical fiction that feels like a personal attack every time I say that.
(14:21):
Um,
and so why don't you first tell our listeners what that book is about?
Just give us a little book,
talk about it?
And then what I want to think about is um when you were writing it,
like why you chose that era and you know,
that kind of thing thinking about your students or just in general,
whether it was a time you wanted to unpack.
(14:42):
Yeah,
for sure.
So World Made of glass is about Iris.
Um Iris is in seventh grade.
Um and it's the,
it's the spring of her seventh grade year when the book starts and her parents have been amicably divorced,
um,
for a while now,
I think at that point a little over a year and she is,
she lives um in Manhattan and she lives in an apartment building,
(15:05):
um,
primary with her mom um on the eighth floor but her dad who she adores and has a great relationship with and his partner Jr moved into an apartment four floors up so that they could sort of be an kind of an unconventional family in a sense together.
But Iris starts out the book having vowed forevermore to despise Jr because,
(15:27):
you know,
of course,
as 1/7 grader,
she sees him as,
you know,
the thing that came between her parents,
even though of course exactly how it happened.
So anyway,
um it's 1987 and,
um,
her dad and Jr both have a I DS and it's the sort of the beginning of the public's awareness of A I DS and there,
(15:50):
I mean,
there still is but there was to,
to such a huge degree,
so much,
um,
stigma and discrimination.
Um,
in the eighties,
I mean,
the most of the people who were impacted by HIV and A I DS were marginalized people,
they were gay men,
they were,
um,
intravenous drug,
drug users and the government's response to this,
(16:14):
to this new virus that they were,
you know,
that they were just starting to see was very dismissive.
Um,
you know,
when we think about the early days of COVID,
we certainly there,
there were differences of,
of quote unquote opinion and how to handle the early days of COVID.
(16:34):
But at the same time,
you couldn't deny that everyone sort of saw this as like something to be talked about.
And in the early days of A I DS,
it was not,
that was not the case and the government just,
you know,
turned,
turned a blind eye until they were forced until the government and the pharmaceutical companies were sort of forced to,
um do otherwise.
(16:54):
And the way that that change change came about was,
um,
you know,
there were a lot of,
a lot of things that,
that made that change,
one of which was grassroots advocacy such as backup,
which was,
and still is a,
um,
a group of activists who came together in Greenwich Village in the spring of 87.
(17:18):
And um,
and basically,
they,
they were totally furious and they were,
it was a lot of um gay men and a lot of their allies and family members and they were dying and nobody cared.
Um,
you know,
nobody in power cared.
And so they,
over the years kind of forced the pharmaceutical companies in the government to,
(17:39):
to look at this issue and it took way longer than it should have.
But eventually,
um,
you know,
obviously now there's,
uh,
medical treatment for HIV that,
you know,
if you're someone who has HIV and is able to sort of reliably take your medication,
you can live a very normal life.
So,
um a lot of that is due to act up.
So Iris finds herself in the midst of all of this.
(18:01):
She is just coming to realize that her,
the reason why her dad and then eventually Jr are dying is literally because they're gay.
Like if this virus was impacting a group of straight men,
the response would have been very different.
People saw this as their fault or some sort of a punishment for being deviant or whatever,
(18:21):
whatever it may be.
So she's furious as she comes to learn that she becomes increasingly furious.
And the book is about her journey.
Um It's,
you know,
it's not a spoiler to say that her dad guys because that happens early on in the book.
And then she and Jr find she,
she,
she comes around on,
on the Jr front and starts to love him.
And so basically,
(18:42):
it's about her journey into becoming an uh,
an advocate and then an ally who takes action.
She and she finds her community of people who are equally furious and,
like,
desperate to find a way to channel their anger into action.
That's the thing about the book.
I mean,
it's a heavy topic.
I mean,
(19:03):
there's,
it's a two box of tissue book.
I mean,
there's definitely some sorrow to be unpacked,
but there's also this piece of it that's so empowering.
You know,
Iris and her friends,
they find a way to channel their grief and their outrage into something that's positive and that empowers them to have a voice and to try to change a world that they come to realize is unjust.
(19:31):
And so for me,
like,
I think there's so many,
even though it takes place like 40 plus years ago,
it is,
there's so many lessons for today's kids who may be feeling the same way about our world right now just in a different context.
And I wonder if that was part of your journey in writing it at all?
(19:55):
Just thinking about giving kids some guidance there.
Definitely.
I mean,
the two things that sort of converged that led me to want to write this book were first of all,
co and so,
you know,
I was thinking as,
as we were in like the very early days of COVID that actually when I was back when I was in seventh grade,
I,
there was another pandemic that was happening,
(20:16):
but it just,
of course,
felt so far removed from me.
And a lot of that was because of how the media was reporting on it and of all the biases at all the way in my own community,
you know,
from um my family,
my school,
like everything around me was just,
you know,
it was 1987 and people didn't talk about things,
(20:36):
you know,
it was like,
oh,
well,
if it doesn't personally impact you,
let's just ignore it the way we got our news and the access that I as a 12 year old had to information was so different.
So,
um I thought about that a lot during those early days of COVID and sort of compared in my mind how the government responded to a pandemic that impact,
(21:00):
that impacted everybody.
And I put that in air quotes sort of too because,
you know,
I think all,
all pandemics impact everybody whether you're directly ill or not.
But,
you know,
just comparing how that felt to what I knew about the early days of A I DS.
So,
um that sort of converged with my own feelings of rage allyship,
(21:24):
I suppose you can say to,
you know,
as I have a close family member who is transgender and everything that Iris felt sort of that ragey,
that ragey feeling about like,
how unfair,
how unjust,
like,
how could this be happening to somebody that I love so much?
Like I channeled that all very easily from my own experience in the role of an,
(21:48):
of an ally to trans kids.
So those two,
those two things came together,
the pandemic and the rage that I felt as an ally and sort of figuring out too,
like as an ally to trans kids.
Like what do you do with this immense anger and feeling of injustice?
Because as the,
(22:10):
it's my role,
you know,
is a cisgender ally,
it's my role to not,
you know,
I can feel that anger but I can't let that interfere with my allyship because that's just unfair,
right?
Like I have to stuff that anger so that I can do the work so that trans kids don't have to do that on their own.
(22:31):
So that was what sort of created Iris and her story.
And I do hope that kids see the relevance today in,
you know,
the idea of making change,
sort of at the level that you are able in your life at that moment to make change.
So,
um you know,
(22:52):
as you sort of mentioned,
Iris and her friends figure out some things that they can do at,
you know,
at the school level to start to bring about change.
And I love the idea of empowering kids to look around their world.
And you know,
if you notice something as a kid,
I,
I remember as a kid at least like looking around my world constantly and being like,
(23:13):
that's unfair.
That's unfair.
This other thing is unfair.
I was always sort of on the lookout for what was unjust and it would make me very angry but I didn't have any tools to do anything with that.
You know,
I'd see teachers doing things or saying things that I knew were not fair in one way or another or other adults.
And I think as a kid you often feel and as an adult too,
(23:35):
to be honest,
you often feel like,
well,
you know,
what can I do there?
I don't know what to do about that.
I don't know how to do anything about that.
And I don't want kids to feel like that.
I want them to feel like if they feel that something is unfair or unjust,
they're probably on to something and how can they feel empowered to make a change if it's something that's worth fighting for and,
and books?
(23:55):
I mean,
not only yours but others do such a great job of modeling what that can look like and not just within the pages of the story,
but frankly on the cover too,
I'm speaking for myself here mostly,
although I think we're aligned,
you know,
as a person of privilege,
a white cisgender woman,
you know,
(24:15):
I have power that other communities may not.
And if I really want to be an ally,
then I have to use that power in a way that gives other communities power as well,
right?
So just by virtue of the fact that as someone who clearly is talented at writing books,
(24:36):
who has a publisher and an agent,
all of those things,
you know,
you could write about anything,
but you're choosing to write these stories that may help to redistribute power in a more equitable way,
which I think is a powerful,
powerful example for kids in and of itself beyond the story,
the story.
Yes,
(24:56):
but also just on the cover that this person is choosing to use their privilege in this way.
I think that's really powerful.
Thank you for that.
Well,
I,
you know,
and in 2024 I must say 2023 but in 2024 and beyond,
it feels like we need more examples of this than ever.
You know,
where we were talking before the show,
(25:17):
you know,
we're living in a time where there's organized efforts to make it less,
you know,
to reduce access to not only stories like these,
but stories that were written by an illustration it did created by people from historically marginalized communities where there's efforts to make the number of stories that kids have access to far fewer and more homogenized.
(25:41):
And so it just feels like,
you know,
right now,
these conversations and the books that you're writing,
they just feel more important than ever.
I don't know about you.
But,
you know,
I worry about what uh the world that we're creating right now.
And you know,
I don't know if there's so much a question here,
so much is just commiserating about the fact that I feel like we need these stories now more than ever.
(26:05):
Yeah.
I,
I worry about it,
you know,
all day and,
and into most of the nights as well.
It just seems so,
so apocalyptic to me and,
you know,
like we need these stories and they're,
they're still being created but then it's like there's this roadblock where it's like so many kids who need them.
(26:26):
Yeah.
And like literally can't access them anymore.
And it's just so I,
I don't know,
it's like this is where I start to spin because it's like you can do certain things and,
and we can fight these fights and you know,
and I try to channel Iris.
It's like,
ok cha change did not,
changes can be slow and that.
(26:48):
So I sort of don't like saying that sometimes because I think it can make you then sort of OK being a little bit lazy about things,
which is not my purpose in saying that change can be slow,
but just like this understanding that we're so frantic and we're so angry and we're so we so know how and why these kids need the access to the media that they need.
(27:09):
But like we,
we can't expect to see everything change tomorrow.
Like we have to have stamina,
I guess as we,
as we fight this,
but it's just,
I don't know,
it just,
it is very discouraging because it's like,
every time something happens,
you think,
like,
ok,
things,
our country can't get,
things,
can't get worse than this.
And then,
(27:29):
you know,
two days later there's something else and you suddenly it does.
Yeah.
You're like,
wow,
like,
how is it possible that we just keep on the downward trajectory?
It's just,
it's a lot,
I mean,
I'm sure that,
as you said,
I'm sure that we're similar in that I would imagine we're probably both awake at 3 a.m. you know,
kind of,
(27:50):
I don't know just,
but this is where,
you know,
stories like world made of glass and others,
you know,
are so important,
not just for kids,
I think,
but also for us because they remind me that,
you know,
in line with what you were saying about how sometimes change is like painfully slow.
I try to remind myself that all big changes occur one big step.
(28:14):
I mean,
one small step at a time,
like they all occur incrementally like it might seem like this massive change,
but things don't shift seismically in one step.
Usually it takes many,
many small steps and we all have the power to affect the world within arm's reach,
(28:34):
you know.
So if you think about it in a more micro way,
it becomes a little more manageable,
a little less,
you know,
possible.
And I feel like stories like irises and others help those are,
those are just good reminders of that,
you know,
because I think giving up is what folks on the other side of this argument,
(28:57):
hope we'll do.
They hope it'll feel hopeless and that will just give up,
you know.
Um Yeah,
I know.
But it's,
it's hard for people who are so drawn to stories like us because in a story,
it's like what makes the story good is that it has a resolution.
So I think like in our lives,
we're looking at this current story of,
you know,
American history and we're like,
(29:18):
we're dying for this resolution.
Like we want to see a,
a thing that,
that makes it end.
And then,
like you said,
I sort of remind myself that Iris's story started in 1987 and it was decades before,
you know,
things really changed in such a way that we can look back at it and say,
(29:41):
OK,
so this happened fed up started and that led to this,
this and this,
but we forget the decades of time that passed because it doesn't make for a good story to just say,
ok,
and then they also just sat in this angst and misery and they didn't give up,
but they sat in it for years and years and years.
That's hard to hear it is.
(30:02):
It is.
But that also like makes me then want to know if um to whatever degree you are able,
I,
I really want to know what you're working on next.
Do you,
are you able to share anything that?
OK.
Go,
I see you nodding.
So,
yeah,
tell me what,
what's happening next.
OK.
So I my next book is coming out in October.
(30:24):
It's called Every story ever told.
And it's a companion to a world made of glass.
I think my heart just exploded.
That is amazing.
Yay.
So it's,
but it's also very heavy and I actually have just decided very recently that like the next book I write is going to,
first of all,
I'm going to give myself a break.
The next book I write is going to be something happy because I think I'm sort of like slowly killing myself here.
(30:49):
But it's sort of a modern day companion.
Iris is all grown up and she has a daughter named Stevie Jane,
named after her grandpas.
And the,
the story about Stevie Jane and um it's about gun violence.
So basically the back story to the story is that I grew up in Highland Park,
Illinois,
which is where the 4th 4th of July mass shooting was a year and a half ago.
(31:12):
And I was at my home when that happened,
waiting for a friend to come pick me up because we had plans to go into the downtown area of Highland Park to go to a restaurant to eat.
And I got a text from my mom and she's,
the text was like,
there's an active shooter,
downtown Highland Park.
And this is where I lived my whole life.
So I think,
like,
growing up in a town,
like,
um,
you know,
the fact that I walked around the area where mass shooting happened when I was four years old,
(31:37):
like,
it's just,
it feels even different.
I think that it would feel if it happened in the town that I live in now.
Like,
my connection to that felt,
it felt different and the fact that I was like,
sort of like almost going to be going there.
Um And on top of those things and more of those than,
than that,
the fact that several people I knew were there.
Um,
and they,
(31:57):
the people that I knew who were there,
my close friends who were there were not in physically injured.
So it's like I was experiencing all these things like this intense relief and then like this guilt that I was feeling relieved when all these people were not ok or all of that.
So,
basically,
I selfishly thought to myself that the next book that I wanted to write,
(32:21):
this is before I had started,
it was going to be about a mass shooting.
And I say selfishly because I thought that by writing about it,
I could sort of like,
write my way out of the trauma that I process it.
Yeah,
like it was like a secondary trauma and because I think that's why I write everything is sort of like as a way to,
to process things,
et cetera.
(32:42):
So I sort of selfishly slash stupidly thought that writing about this would help.
And so I sold the proposal and I sat down to write and I found myself in this,
like,
I mean,
read,
it was so traumatic writing the book.
Like I wrote so many and I had to write it three times because I couldn't get it because it was so traumatic.
(33:06):
And I just sort of like lived in this trauma of Stevie Jane Bean at this mass shooting.
I will tell you right off the bat.
Iris is fine.
She does get injured,
but she's fine.
I would never kill off Iris.
But thank you as an Iris fan.
I appreciate that.
Right.
So,
but the story is basically about Stevie Jane,
(33:26):
first of all,
trying to process like,
how do you,
how do you exist in,
in this world where there's so much uncertainty and there's so much just random violence and danger.
And so she,
Iris is in the hospital and Stevie Jane and her best friend,
Avi are staying with her grandparents,
great grandma,
Sarah and grandpa Bob.
And she goes on this sort of like PTSD infused journey,
(33:52):
um sort of sneak out of the apartment with her friend and her new emotional support dog Raisin.
She,
she's on a journey to basically to alleviate her guilt.
She feels like her mom got shot because of the few moments beforehand that led up to the shooting that placed Iris exactly where she was and Stevie Jane in a different location and she's trying to alleviate her guilt.
(34:16):
So,
the book We in other stories that exist in the world,
Jane has a neighbor who's a holocaust survivor who she's close with.
So Evelyn's stories come into play and the stories of her grandpas Steven and Jr and her mom's stories of activism as a kid.
And I'd like to think,
you know,
I do think it's,
it's,
(34:36):
there's a hopefulness at the end.
You know,
it's a middle,
of course,
it's going to be hopeful in the end,
but it was really,
really hard to,
it was infinitely harder to write than I thought it would be.
And I,
I just now I'm sort of,
I'm like,
sort of now digging myself a little bit out of this world of just like,
(34:58):
I mean,
it's just,
it's scary,
you know,
living in this world and like this fear,
you know,
sending my kids out into the world.
It's like this constant fear.
There's also a lesson there about,
you know,
just because there's light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean the tunnel isn't hard to navigate and scary and it feels endless sometimes,
you know.
So,
(35:19):
um I appreciate you being transparent about that and I'm so grateful that you're continuing to write these stories that our world really seems to need.
Sadly right now.
And you know,
I'm so grateful you're out there doing this work.
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
(35:47):
That's it for this week's episode of the Reader's heart.
Thank you so much for tuning in y'all for more information about this week's episode,
including ways to connect with Amy,
as well as a discount code for purchasing her books through book Alicious are available at Library girl.net.
This podcast was created written and recorded by me Jennifer Lagarde.
All rights reserved.
(36:08):
Our theme music was created by Comma media and is available for free at Pix A Bay's Royal T Free Music Repository.
And the gorgeous illustration for our show was created by Karina Lukin.
If you enjoyed the show,
gosh,
I hope you'll hit that subscribe button and then leave us a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts.
Believe it or not,
these small steps make a big difference in helping the reader's heart find its audience.
(36:33):
Thank you again for listening.
We'll see you next time and until then happy reading y'all.
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