April 16, 2024 • 29 mins
In this episode, Chrystal D Giles joins Jennifer LaGarde to discuss the power of children's literature to shape readers' hearts and provide guidance in navigating the world. Chrystal shares her experiences as a young reader and how she now gravitates towards contemporary realistic fiction that tackles social and cultural topics. They also discuss Chrystal's book, Not An Easy Win, which follows the journey of a 12-year-old boy named Lawrence as he learns to play chess and navigates complex emotions and family dynamics. The conversation highlights the importance of representation and the impact of books in helping children understand and process their own experiences. They also explore the role of technology and the value of finding healthy alternatives, as well as the significance of strong grandparent characters in children's literature. Chrystal shares her upcoming projects and the joy she finds in school visits and connecting with young readers.
Show notes and other information related to this episode (including a discount code from Bookelicious) can be found here.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Reader's Heart
03:02 Not An Easy Win
06:02 Representation and Shame
09:31 Technology and Healthy Alternatives
13:18 Grandma's Role
21:00 Future Projects
25:10 School Visits and Impact
27:31 Conclusion
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Throughout my young life,
my father was often incarcerated,
sometimes around,
sometimes not.
I had times in my life where I would live with a grandparent and sometimes where me and my mom and my siblings were stable enough to be on our own.
And throughout all of those things,
I didn't talk about it.
No one talked about it.
You know,
(00:20):
to your point,
it's a very familiar type of life,
but many people just act like it doesn't exist.
And for me,
it brought about a lot of shame and I thought,
ok,
these are secrets and no one talked about it.
So I won't talk about it either.
But I believe we can do that in books.
I,
I believe books really can get to the heart of who we are and we can erase or try to smooth away the change.
(00:58):
Hi,
everyone.
And welcome to the Reader's heart,
a podcast of conversations with authors and illustrators about children's literature as a vehicle for empathy and joy in a dark world.
The reader's heart is rooted in the belief that our world needs the magic of children's literature.
Now more than ever,
so let's get started this week.
My guest is Crystal D.
(01:19):
Giles.
Crystal is a champion for diversity and representation in children's literature.
She often says that she's a lover of both words and numbers because she spent 15 years as an accountant before transitioning into writing full time.
Crystal made her debut with Take Back The Block which received multiple starred reviews was a Kircus Review school Library Journal and N pr best book of the Year.
(01:45):
And Take Back the block also won the International Reading Association's Social Justice Literature Award.
Her latest middle grade novel,
not an easy win was not only a personal favorite for me,
but it also received four starred reviews and was named an A L A notable children's book.
I had such a great time chatting with Crystal for so many reasons.
(02:09):
Not the least of which being that as a former North Carolinian myself,
hearing her accent felt a little bit like going home y'all,
I can't wait for you to hear our conversation.
And as always,
don't forget to stick around until the end of the episode.
For more information,
including a discount code from our friends at Book Alicious.
(02:30):
Hi Crystal.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Hello,
I'm so happy to be here.
I start these episodes the same way every time because I'm kind of fascinated by the way that children's literature,
literature written for young people is able to shape and inform the way that we walk through the world.
(02:52):
You know,
I called the podcast the reader's heart because I feel like Kid Lit has a special place in readers hearts.
You know,
we all sort of remember those books that first impacted us.
And also they,
they just provide us with sort of a,
a guide for how to walk through the world.
So I wondered if you might start us off by just telling us a little bit about your reader's heart,
(03:15):
who you are as a reader and whether that's who you are as a reader,
as a kid or who you are as a reader.
Now,
however,
you wanna address that?
Absolutely.
So I will start with who I was as a,
as a young reader.
Um,
I loved books a lot.
I relate a lot to that kind of quote where people say books were my first friends.
(03:37):
Um,
I was the youngest of four and I was often kind of all by myself since I was singing and I read lots and lots of books.
I was a library kid.
Um,
my mom would take me to the public library.
I would come home with a stack of,
and they would be anything from like mystery to like babysitters club.
(03:57):
And then I would often wander into like the teen section too and like,
grab a teen book.
Um,
and so I read all kinds of things as a young reader and I liked,
I like the escape of reading things that had something to do with my life or maybe not at all.
I don't really remember feeling represented in many of the books I read,
(04:19):
but I don't think I cared at that moment.
I don't think I even had a full understanding of what representation was and what it meant.
I just knew that I could escape into a book and that was kind of who I was as a young reader now.
I love contemporary realistic fiction.
It is the place where my heart always goes.
(04:42):
Um It is also what I write.
I love books that tackle social and cultural topic.
Um Some people call them issue books.
Um I just think they are a good representation of what's happening in our world today.
And so that is usually what I gravitate to.
Um,
those are my absolute favorite.
(05:03):
Yeah,
they're what I think,
Rudy and Sims Bishop sort of called Mirrors,
the books that Mirror Our Real World.
Absolutely.
And,
and I look for those.
That is what I look for.
Um,
and I hope that my books are that too.
Oh,
my gosh.
Your books are some of the best and we can jump right in to,
uh,
talking a little bit about how that translates to you as a writer.
(05:25):
You've already touched on that just a little bit,
but I can see everything that you've shared in your most recent book.
Not an easy win.
Um,
for those listeners who may not have read Not Maisy Win,
as I always say on this podcast now is the time to pause and go correct that error.
If you have not read the book,
then you can pause now and go do that and come back.
(05:47):
But for those who haven't,
do you mind telling us a little bit about that book?
Sure,
not an easy win is my sophomore knowledge.
It's middle grade.
It is about a 12 year old boy named Lawrence and he is from Charlotte,
North Carolina,
which is my hometown as well.
And he has moved to a small town in rural North Carolina and he is not happy to be there.
(06:08):
He for sure wants to be back in what he deems a big city on the very first page of the book,
he is expelled.
He's having some issues as this small school in a small town and he's feeling bullied,
he's being bullied.
He's getting into a lot of trouble and he is expelled on the first page of the book from there.
He finds friends community and a mentor at a local community center where the kids there are playing chess and he doesn't really know what chess is.
(06:39):
He's seen it,
but there's a girl there that he kind of like and all of the other kids are playing chess.
So he decides that he will play the game as well.
So he's learning the process of learning chess.
He and he gets a lot from it.
He learns how to slow his mind down,
he learns how to do things and he also finds community in there as well.
(06:59):
So the book really follows his journey to learning chess,
becoming good enough to possibly compete.
The story also has what it kind of my favorite emotional kind of arc.
It is also a story about how he's navigating these other kind of complicated things in his life.
His father is incarcerated,
(07:19):
he's living with his grandmother.
So multigenerational home that has all kinds of conflicts in terms of how does Lawrence get along with her?
How does she see him?
How does he feel like he's being viewed?
And so throughout the story,
he's also dealing with a lot of those emotional things.
And by the end of the story,
(07:40):
he learned how to tell his own story and he gets to highlight his own story in a positive way.
I I I'm so glad you mentioned some of the supporting cast members because for me,
they were in a lot of ways,
the big stars of the book,
as much as I love Lawrence,
I feel like his story was just made so much richer by virtue of his surrounding cast.
(08:06):
And as someone who taught middle school in some capacity,
either as a classroom teacher or a librarian for 17 years,
I felt like I taught so many kids like Lawrence who had an incarcerated parent or an incarcerated loved one and who lived with a grandparent as a result of that.
And I don't see that many books for whom,
(08:29):
you know,
that feature that story.
And yet so many of our kids experience that absolutely,
you know,
when I decided to write this story,
I was initially inspired by Lawrence and I thought about a kid who was misunderstood or maybe negatively tagged with a single narrative that he didn't agree with.
(08:51):
And I kept thinking about what it must feel like.
And I decided at some point,
I don't even know if it was totally intentional to give him some characteristic from my own life.
And to your point,
we don't often see this particular representation in book.
And I thought,
OK,
well,
I have the same story,
(09:12):
maybe I can give it to him.
And so throughout my young life,
my father was often incarcerated,
sometimes around,
sometimes not.
I had times in my life where I would live with a grandparent and sometimes where me and my mom and my siblings were stable enough to be on our own.
And throughout all of those things,
I didn't talk about it.
(09:32):
No one talked about it.
You know,
to your point,
it's a very familiar type of life,
but many people just act like it doesn't exist.
And for me,
it brought about a lot of shame and I thought,
ok,
these are secrets and no one talked about it.
So I won't talk about it either.
But I believe we can do that in books.
I,
(09:52):
I believe books really can get to the heart of who we are and we can erase or try to smooth away the change.
So I decided to take some things that I had personal experience with,
um,
and put them in a book and I thought Lawrence was the perfect vehicle.
Um,
and his story isn't exactly like mine,
(10:13):
but I thought I could provide an authentic take and a real take on what so many Children go through as you mentioned.
Yeah.
And also the way that books,
like not an easy win,
I think can help kids recognize when things are worth being ashamed of and when things aren't worth being ashamed of,
(10:34):
you know,
Lawrence is expelled,
maybe there's some of his own behavior there that maybe,
yeah,
he should feel a little ashamed of and then figure out what he's going to do to do better or next time.
But his home life and his home situation,
there's no reason for him to feel ashamed of that.
That's not something that's worth that emotion.
And when we don't have narratives to unpack that kids just carry around those big feelings with no one to help them figure out what to do with them.
(11:06):
Absolutely.
I,
I agree with that wholeheartedly.
I associated shame with lots of things.
But to your point,
it's because there wasn't a lot of conversation happening around it.
One of the other things that,
um,
brought me some shame and,
and I,
I tried to kind of remedy that in the novel is that I thought no one else.
Life was like mine.
(11:27):
I thought this is my life.
Everyone else must have a normal life and normal to me was some made up thing,
right?
But it seemed like normal looked a certain way.
And that is the image that gets put out into the world.
And I thought,
OK,
my life does not look like that.
So my life is not normal and I'm ashamed of that.
(11:49):
And so what I tried to give Lawrence is a view and a person who has a similar life to his.
Um and it's not just the same,
but it's to say,
hey,
look,
we have some things in common and we can bond and talk and,
you know,
feel better about the things that are not quote unquote um normal crystal.
(12:11):
This has been a running theme in so many of the episodes of this podcast that I've recorded this idea,
this feeling that we all have that whatever we're going through it,
we're the only person going through it that nobody else could possibly understand it as a result.
We're other,
we're different,
we're not normal,
we're not healthy,
we're not OK.
(12:32):
And I think exactly surveyed now during the times we're living in now coupled that with this perception that everybody else's life is perfect because that's what we see on social media,
you know,
that's all that people post is the polished bits of their life,
the face tune departs.
And so for kids growing up today,
(12:54):
like Lawrence,
you know,
a contemporary young person in addition to the heavy feelings you're talking about and some that I felt too as a kid,
but for different reasons,
I think those are exacerbated by the role that technology plays in their lives.
Um And so I kind of loved the way that Lawrence found this other outlet.
(13:17):
And in no part of the book is there,
you know,
any mention of technology not being healthy,
but you provided this other way for kids to occupy their mind and to build community and to share and learn about themselves that doesn't include filters in a way that makes it look as though everybody else's life is somehow better than theirs.
(13:40):
I'm so happy you brought that up.
Um Chess was such a perfect vehicle for me to,
to teach them lessons to Lawrence for sure,
but also to give him a hobby and something to do.
I,
I totally realized that technology and phones are a part of middle grade life.
(14:01):
I get that.
And so in fact,
the story I'm working on now has a good bit of phone.
But in this story,
I felt like it didn't have to be there.
I felt like these Children had a very specific place to go and I wanted to give Lawrence,
real human interactions.
(14:21):
I wanted him to fill the community that she spoke of.
And the rec center provided that this large group of kids from one place different stories.
And then chess of course,
was a way for him to actually use his hands and use his mind.
And the connection between those two things was an intentional choice.
(14:42):
And I'm so I'm so happy you brought that up because I was relieved to not have to insert technology into this story.
Well,
I can't help it.
I mean,
I read every book through at least partially through the lens of a teacher.
You know,
I still identify in so many ways as a middle school teacher.
And so I'm thinking to myself as I'm reading,
(15:03):
not an easy win.
Oh my gosh,
like this is the perfect jumping off point for teachers,
librarians educate whoever adults to create like a board game club.
It doesn't even have to be chess.
Chess could be one of many options but giving kids options for building community sharing,
(15:23):
learning how to use their mind in different ways that aren't preachy.
You know,
we don't need to preach to kids about their phones and all that.
I don't think that's a helpful thing,
especially for many adults like myself who spend way too much time on my phone myself.
Like,
you know,
I can't give them a do,
as I say,
but not as I do lecture,
but what a healthy way or to just show some options like these are things we can do outside of that technology.
(15:52):
Absolutely.
I,
one of the questions I asked when I do school visits,
I have kind of a this or that at the beginning.
And one of,
um,
my op the options I have is like board games or video games,
right?
And so of course,
it's an overwhelming number that choose video games,
but there's always a handful that go board games and I always give them like a huge round of applause and I thank you.
(16:16):
And I always say to them,
um that if you are like Lauren,
you eventually choose a board game.
And so we,
we start the conversation just talking about the need to have a little something different.
And of course,
like to your point,
um I'm on my phone way too much as well,
but there is some value in shutting it off and you know,
(16:39):
saying,
hey,
look,
I can put that to the side and do something else.
So,
um I hope,
I hope that message is received.
It's just that I think it's important for us to think about all of us no matter what age we are that,
you know,
just to think about what are the healthiest ways for these things to fit into our lives.
And it's not about taking them away or spending less time on them.
(17:01):
It's just being more intentional about using them in healthy ways.
And yeah,
that does mean that you've got some space left over then.
How do you fill it with something?
And I love the way Lawrence is,
you know,
because he ends up with a lot of time on his hands being expelled that could go,
you know,
to get him into even more trouble.
(17:23):
But instead he has this other option,
which I love.
But I can't talk about this book though without talking about grandma because,
you know,
grandma is one of my favorite characters in the book.
I love a grandma in these books.
But I particularly love Lawrence's grandmother because she is not,
she's not lovable as the book begins.
(17:46):
You know,
she and Lawrence have AAA relationship with a lot of friction and grandma also has a lot of friction with Lawrence's mom.
But we like we do with Lawrence,
we learn a lot about her and begin to understand her behavior.
Do you mind talking about grandma just a little bit.
I'm so happy.
(18:07):
I,
I love granny.
You know,
I have heard people describe her as me,
not nice many things.
And when I wrote her,
I thought,
OK,
I will have her be a little prickly in the beginning and then she and Lawrence will have some joint connection by the end of the story.
(18:29):
And that was always my fault.
I did not view her as mean in any way.
She reminds me of a black southern granny,
very similar to my own.
My granny is probably a little nicer,
but she is not like Saccharine Sweet.
And that's another little bit of representation that I wanted to add because I think we had this image of what grandmothers should look like or feel like.
(18:54):
And particularly in this community,
it is a rural community.
It has been through a lot of things historically.
And so she is a representation of her lived experience.
So she does not come off in this way.
That's very smooshy and mushy and soft.
I think Laurence says she doesn't knit hats like most grannies do,
(19:16):
right?
But she shows her love for her family in other ways,
she does it with cooking for them and making sure they are fed.
She also does it by opening her home when her daughter and her Children need it.
And so in some ways she's display.
And so we understand as the story turns that she's sacrificing a lot to help her family,
(19:39):
which she does.
Absolutely.
And without question,
but it's still a little bit tough on her as well.
So throughout the story,
we learned that she has some kind of some old fashioned views that Lawrence doesn't always relate to.
But he does get that she,
that she loves him and she wants the best for him.
(20:00):
And her idea of the best is close to perfection.
And I think throughout the story,
she realizes that he's doing the best he can.
And he's trying and then that eventually ends up being ok with her too.
I love that you use the word prickly to describe her because I think that's perfect,
you know.
But also the thing I,
I love so much about granny is that she provides a,
(20:25):
an example for kids to see of just love looking a lot of different ways because she loves her family fiercely.
She sacrificed a lot for them and you to your,
you know,
she keeps them bed and gives them a roof when they don't have anything else.
And while she may not show her love through hugs and gifts and kisses and,
(20:49):
you know,
all of that,
she shows it in a lot of other ways.
And I just felt like again,
she was,
uh,
she looked and sounded like so many of the grandparents that I new from the students that I taught so many of those grandparents who were raising their grandchildren.
It's a tough thing.
It's a tough shift even as a grandparent to have to do that.
(21:12):
And like I said,
you know,
I watched my grandmother do it and they come from my grandmother and the grandmother in this book,
they come from a different generation where they've had to endure a lot of things and sacrifice in a lot of ways.
Sacrifice is love.
It is what love looks like.
So to them,
it's not this really easy,
(21:33):
smooth life and she wants the best for him.
And so she think that by pushing him,
she's giving him an opportunity at the best.
And so what I tried to do throughout the editing process is make sure I make her as round and full as possible.
So that by the end of the story,
people realize um where she's coming from and they also see her heart in the same way that they see Lawrence's and then they come together.
(22:01):
So I'm,
I'm so happy you brought that up.
She reminds me a lot of my own grandmother.
I've dedicated the book to my grandmother.
So I hope that people will embrace her in the same way that I do.
Is your grandmother still living?
Do you mind me asking that?
Yes,
she is.
She will turn 94 this year.
And I know I'm,
(22:22):
I'm so super blessed to have her.
I know I'm,
I'm going,
I'm gonna get emotional when I talk about it because she is aging and um I really wanted her to be around to,
to see the book and,
and all of that.
And she,
she's,
she's not at a place where she can read it and understand it.
But I showed her the dedication and her name is in it and she's like,
(22:44):
that's my name.
So,
so she,
she,
I,
I still have her in my life and I'm immensely blessed that she,
that I get to have her for as long as I do.
Oh,
I love that so,
so much.
That makes me so happy.
Well,
I,
you know,
feel like we could talk forever,
(23:04):
but I want to be respectful of your time.
So be before as we wrap things up.
I want to make sure I give you some time to talk a little bit about what you're working on to whatever degree you can.
I know sometimes things are top secret.
So whatever you feel comfortable sharing,
what can we expect next details.
I am working on uh another middle grade contemporary realistic novel.
(23:29):
I can't say a whole lot about it because it's not been announced,
but it is coming.
I love middle grade.
And so I'm just kind of right there in that space.
This book,
I can say,
I think this book will feature my first girl main character.
And so I'm super,
super excited to share kind of a new perspective.
So I'm,
I'm really excited that book has been an interesting one to write and fun.
(23:51):
And I've learned a lot throughout that process.
Um One book that has been announced,
it's a picture book.
It's not due out for another couple of years just because that's the nature of picture books,
but it is actually called We Are Joy.
It is my picture book debut and I'm super excited.
It will be illustrated by Kit Thomas and I cannot wait to see their illustrations and what they bring to the art of the book.
(24:16):
And it is about joy and big and small places.
It's a book that kind of highlights Black joy um in community and all of the things that I like to put in books.
But it is perfect to,
to talk about heart and joy and um kind of big emotions.
And so that book is coming slated for 2026 but likely you will see a novel from me before that.
(24:42):
Yay,
I love that we're in our Crystal D Giles era that we have lots coming from you.
That is exciting.
And in the meantime,
I'm sure you're doing school visits and just it away.
Absolutely.
I have a good number of them coming up over the next few months.
It's always,
it's,
it is an exciting thing to meet and talk to students.
(25:03):
I,
I find it to be self fulfilling.
I I'm going to be going to a school that is,
that are reading my first book.
Pay back the block.
And I visited this the same set of schools last year and I met so many students who kind of secretly said I usually don't read the book.
They get assigned to me.
(25:24):
And I thought,
oh no,
but I had one student say I finished the whole book.
I read it.
I'm just like the main character and it,
it literally melted my heart.
I stood there trying not to like be emotional and I go,
oh my God,
I'm so happy.
And so that is the moment that I go.
OK,
this is,
(25:44):
this is the work.
This is,
this is the point of it all.
So I love doing school visits.
Oh yay.
That makes me so happy and it has to be because,
you know,
one misconception is is that,
you know,
uh you all are getting filthy rich off of all these books you're writing.
You know,
this idea that authors and illustrators just make bank after their book is published,
(26:07):
of course,
is not true.
And school visits are a huge part of how you are able to continue writing.
But the meeting with your readers and hearing them talk about what these books mean to them has to be the fuel that keeps you going.
It absolutely does.
I'm,
(26:28):
I'm so happy you kind of dispelled the of,
uh,
writers being super rich.
Um,
I am not one of those people.
Um,
and,
but to your point,
like,
school business are very important because not only it kinda helps us refuel the well,
and get very up close to the reader,
um,
middle grade in particular.
It's,
it's hard to reach the reader because they're not online.
(26:49):
They do not purchase their own books.
And,
and I mean,
you can't,
like,
have a 10 year old on the shoulder and go,
hey,
read my book.
You know,
that would be a little strange.
So,
I mean,
you can,
but you might get in trouble.
Right.
Absolutely.
So,
the best way to,
to talk to a 10 year old is usually in a school environment wherein it is safe and you get to share your work and your inspiration with them.
(27:14):
And then I instantly get motivation and inspiration right back from them.
So yes,
it is.
It's one of the things that I did not realize I would love and I still get nervous,
but after it's over,
I go,
oh,
this is,
this is it.
This is exactly why I write.
Well,
I'm so grateful that you're out there doing this work.
(27:36):
We need you.
And I'm so just,
I don't know,
over the moon for all the readers who get to meet characters like Lawrence and everyone else in your books.
Thank you so much for writing for young people and for keeping on.
We need you right now.
Thank you.
Thank you.
This um This has been great and I will take that with me when I am in the trenches of editing something that I'm that,
(28:02):
that needs a lot of work.
That's right.
Remind you were on your shoulder,
cheering you on.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for tuning in to the reader's heart.
(28:23):
More information about this episode including ways to connect with Crystal as well as a discount code for purchasing her books through book Alicious are available at Library girl.net.
This podcast was created written and recorded by me Jennifer Lagarde.
All rights reserved.
Our theme music was created by com media and is available for free at Pixie Bay's royalty free Music Repository.
(28:47):
And the beautiful illustration for this show was created by Karina Lukin.
If you enjoy our show,
I hope you'll leave us a five star review at wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
Believe it or not,
these small steps make a big difference in helping the reader's heart find its audience.
Thank you again for listening.
(29:07):
We'll see you next time and until then happy reading y'all.
Throughout my young life,
my father was often incarcerated,
sometimes around,
sometimes not.
I had times in my life where I would live with a grandparent and sometimes where me and my mom and my siblings were stable enough to be on our own.
And throughout all of those things,
I didn't talk about it.
No one talked about it.
You know,
(00:20):
to your point,
it's a very familiar type of life,
but many people just act like it doesn't exist.
And for me,
it brought about a lot of shame and I thought,
ok,
these are secrets and no one talked about it.
So I won't talk about it either.
But I believe we can do that in books.
I,
I believe books really can get to the heart of who we are and we can erase or try to smooth away the change.
(00:58):
Hi,
everyone.
And welcome to the Reader's heart,
a podcast of conversations with authors and illustrators about children's literature as a vehicle for empathy and joy in a dark world.
The reader's heart is rooted in the belief that our world needs the magic of children's literature.
Now more than ever,
so let's get started this week.
My guest is Crystal D.
(01:19):
Giles.
Crystal is a champion for diversity and representation in children's literature.
She often says that she's a lover of both words and numbers because she spent 15 years as an accountant before transitioning into writing full time.
Crystal made her debut with Take Back The Block which received multiple starred reviews was a Kircus Review school Library Journal and N pr best book of the Year.
(01:45):
And Take Back the block also won the International Reading Association's Social Justice Literature Award.
Her latest middle grade novel,
not an easy win was not only a personal favorite for me,
but it also received four starred reviews and was named an A L A notable children's book.
I had such a great time chatting with Crystal for so many reasons.
(02:09):
Not the least of which being that as a former North Carolinian myself,
hearing her accent felt a little bit like going home y'all,
I can't wait for you to hear our conversation.
And as always,
don't forget to stick around until the end of the episode.
For more information,
including a discount code from our friends at Book Alicious.
(02:30):
Hi Crystal.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Hello,
I'm so happy to be here.
I start these episodes the same way every time because I'm kind of fascinated by the way that children's literature,
literature written for young people is able to shape and inform the way that we walk through the world.
(02:52):
You know,
I called the podcast the reader's heart because I feel like Kid Lit has a special place in readers hearts.
You know,
we all sort of remember those books that first impacted us.
And also they,
they just provide us with sort of a,
a guide for how to walk through the world.
So I wondered if you might start us off by just telling us a little bit about your reader's heart,
(03:15):
who you are as a reader and whether that's who you are as a reader,
as a kid or who you are as a reader.
Now,
however,
you wanna address that?
Absolutely.
So I will start with who I was as a,
as a young reader.
Um,
I loved books a lot.
I relate a lot to that kind of quote where people say books were my first friends.
(03:37):
Um,
I was the youngest of four and I was often kind of all by myself since I was singing and I read lots and lots of books.
I was a library kid.
Um,
my mom would take me to the public library.
I would come home with a stack of,
and they would be anything from like mystery to like babysitters club.
(03:57):
And then I would often wander into like the teen section too and like,
grab a teen book.
Um,
and so I read all kinds of things as a young reader and I liked,
I like the escape of reading things that had something to do with my life or maybe not at all.
I don't really remember feeling represented in many of the books I read,
(04:19):
but I don't think I cared at that moment.
I don't think I even had a full understanding of what representation was and what it meant.
I just knew that I could escape into a book and that was kind of who I was as a young reader now.
I love contemporary realistic fiction.
It is the place where my heart always goes.
(04:42):
Um It is also what I write.
I love books that tackle social and cultural topic.
Um Some people call them issue books.
Um I just think they are a good representation of what's happening in our world today.
And so that is usually what I gravitate to.
Um,
those are my absolute favorite.
(05:03):
Yeah,
they're what I think,
Rudy and Sims Bishop sort of called Mirrors,
the books that Mirror Our Real World.
Absolutely.
And,
and I look for those.
That is what I look for.
Um,
and I hope that my books are that too.
Oh,
my gosh.
Your books are some of the best and we can jump right in to,
uh,
talking a little bit about how that translates to you as a writer.
(05:25):
You've already touched on that just a little bit,
but I can see everything that you've shared in your most recent book.
Not an easy win.
Um,
for those listeners who may not have read Not Maisy Win,
as I always say on this podcast now is the time to pause and go correct that error.
If you have not read the book,
then you can pause now and go do that and come back.
(05:47):
But for those who haven't,
do you mind telling us a little bit about that book?
Sure,
not an easy win is my sophomore knowledge.
It's middle grade.
It is about a 12 year old boy named Lawrence and he is from Charlotte,
North Carolina,
which is my hometown as well.
And he has moved to a small town in rural North Carolina and he is not happy to be there.
(06:08):
He for sure wants to be back in what he deems a big city on the very first page of the book,
he is expelled.
He's having some issues as this small school in a small town and he's feeling bullied,
he's being bullied.
He's getting into a lot of trouble and he is expelled on the first page of the book from there.
He finds friends community and a mentor at a local community center where the kids there are playing chess and he doesn't really know what chess is.
(06:39):
He's seen it,
but there's a girl there that he kind of like and all of the other kids are playing chess.
So he decides that he will play the game as well.
So he's learning the process of learning chess.
He and he gets a lot from it.
He learns how to slow his mind down,
he learns how to do things and he also finds community in there as well.
(06:59):
So the book really follows his journey to learning chess,
becoming good enough to possibly compete.
The story also has what it kind of my favorite emotional kind of arc.
It is also a story about how he's navigating these other kind of complicated things in his life.
His father is incarcerated,
(07:19):
he's living with his grandmother.
So multigenerational home that has all kinds of conflicts in terms of how does Lawrence get along with her?
How does she see him?
How does he feel like he's being viewed?
And so throughout the story,
he's also dealing with a lot of those emotional things.
And by the end of the story,
(07:40):
he learned how to tell his own story and he gets to highlight his own story in a positive way.
I I I'm so glad you mentioned some of the supporting cast members because for me,
they were in a lot of ways,
the big stars of the book,
as much as I love Lawrence,
I feel like his story was just made so much richer by virtue of his surrounding cast.
(08:06):
And as someone who taught middle school in some capacity,
either as a classroom teacher or a librarian for 17 years,
I felt like I taught so many kids like Lawrence who had an incarcerated parent or an incarcerated loved one and who lived with a grandparent as a result of that.
And I don't see that many books for whom,
(08:29):
you know,
that feature that story.
And yet so many of our kids experience that absolutely,
you know,
when I decided to write this story,
I was initially inspired by Lawrence and I thought about a kid who was misunderstood or maybe negatively tagged with a single narrative that he didn't agree with.
(08:51):
And I kept thinking about what it must feel like.
And I decided at some point,
I don't even know if it was totally intentional to give him some characteristic from my own life.
And to your point,
we don't often see this particular representation in book.
And I thought,
OK,
well,
I have the same story,
(09:12):
maybe I can give it to him.
And so throughout my young life,
my father was often incarcerated,
sometimes around,
sometimes not.
I had times in my life where I would live with a grandparent and sometimes where me and my mom and my siblings were stable enough to be on our own.
And throughout all of those things,
I didn't talk about it.
(09:32):
No one talked about it.
You know,
to your point,
it's a very familiar type of life,
but many people just act like it doesn't exist.
And for me,
it brought about a lot of shame and I thought,
ok,
these are secrets and no one talked about it.
So I won't talk about it either.
But I believe we can do that in books.
I,
(09:52):
I believe books really can get to the heart of who we are and we can erase or try to smooth away the change.
So I decided to take some things that I had personal experience with,
um,
and put them in a book and I thought Lawrence was the perfect vehicle.
Um,
and his story isn't exactly like mine,
(10:13):
but I thought I could provide an authentic take and a real take on what so many Children go through as you mentioned.
Yeah.
And also the way that books,
like not an easy win,
I think can help kids recognize when things are worth being ashamed of and when things aren't worth being ashamed of,
(10:34):
you know,
Lawrence is expelled,
maybe there's some of his own behavior there that maybe,
yeah,
he should feel a little ashamed of and then figure out what he's going to do to do better or next time.
But his home life and his home situation,
there's no reason for him to feel ashamed of that.
That's not something that's worth that emotion.
And when we don't have narratives to unpack that kids just carry around those big feelings with no one to help them figure out what to do with them.
(11:06):
Absolutely.
I,
I agree with that wholeheartedly.
I associated shame with lots of things.
But to your point,
it's because there wasn't a lot of conversation happening around it.
One of the other things that,
um,
brought me some shame and,
and I,
I tried to kind of remedy that in the novel is that I thought no one else.
Life was like mine.
(11:27):
I thought this is my life.
Everyone else must have a normal life and normal to me was some made up thing,
right?
But it seemed like normal looked a certain way.
And that is the image that gets put out into the world.
And I thought,
OK,
my life does not look like that.
So my life is not normal and I'm ashamed of that.
(11:49):
And so what I tried to give Lawrence is a view and a person who has a similar life to his.
Um and it's not just the same,
but it's to say,
hey,
look,
we have some things in common and we can bond and talk and,
you know,
feel better about the things that are not quote unquote um normal crystal.
(12:11):
This has been a running theme in so many of the episodes of this podcast that I've recorded this idea,
this feeling that we all have that whatever we're going through it,
we're the only person going through it that nobody else could possibly understand it as a result.
We're other,
we're different,
we're not normal,
we're not healthy,
we're not OK.
(12:32):
And I think exactly surveyed now during the times we're living in now coupled that with this perception that everybody else's life is perfect because that's what we see on social media,
you know,
that's all that people post is the polished bits of their life,
the face tune departs.
And so for kids growing up today,
(12:54):
like Lawrence,
you know,
a contemporary young person in addition to the heavy feelings you're talking about and some that I felt too as a kid,
but for different reasons,
I think those are exacerbated by the role that technology plays in their lives.
Um And so I kind of loved the way that Lawrence found this other outlet.
(13:17):
And in no part of the book is there,
you know,
any mention of technology not being healthy,
but you provided this other way for kids to occupy their mind and to build community and to share and learn about themselves that doesn't include filters in a way that makes it look as though everybody else's life is somehow better than theirs.
(13:40):
I'm so happy you brought that up.
Um Chess was such a perfect vehicle for me to,
to teach them lessons to Lawrence for sure,
but also to give him a hobby and something to do.
I,
I totally realized that technology and phones are a part of middle grade life.
(14:01):
I get that.
And so in fact,
the story I'm working on now has a good bit of phone.
But in this story,
I felt like it didn't have to be there.
I felt like these Children had a very specific place to go and I wanted to give Lawrence,
real human interactions.
(14:21):
I wanted him to fill the community that she spoke of.
And the rec center provided that this large group of kids from one place different stories.
And then chess of course,
was a way for him to actually use his hands and use his mind.
And the connection between those two things was an intentional choice.
(14:42):
And I'm so I'm so happy you brought that up because I was relieved to not have to insert technology into this story.
Well,
I can't help it.
I mean,
I read every book through at least partially through the lens of a teacher.
You know,
I still identify in so many ways as a middle school teacher.
And so I'm thinking to myself as I'm reading,
(15:03):
not an easy win.
Oh my gosh,
like this is the perfect jumping off point for teachers,
librarians educate whoever adults to create like a board game club.
It doesn't even have to be chess.
Chess could be one of many options but giving kids options for building community sharing,
(15:23):
learning how to use their mind in different ways that aren't preachy.
You know,
we don't need to preach to kids about their phones and all that.
I don't think that's a helpful thing,
especially for many adults like myself who spend way too much time on my phone myself.
Like,
you know,
I can't give them a do,
as I say,
but not as I do lecture,
but what a healthy way or to just show some options like these are things we can do outside of that technology.
(15:52):
Absolutely.
I,
one of the questions I asked when I do school visits,
I have kind of a this or that at the beginning.
And one of,
um,
my op the options I have is like board games or video games,
right?
And so of course,
it's an overwhelming number that choose video games,
but there's always a handful that go board games and I always give them like a huge round of applause and I thank you.
(16:16):
And I always say to them,
um that if you are like Lauren,
you eventually choose a board game.
And so we,
we start the conversation just talking about the need to have a little something different.
And of course,
like to your point,
um I'm on my phone way too much as well,
but there is some value in shutting it off and you know,
(16:39):
saying,
hey,
look,
I can put that to the side and do something else.
So,
um I hope,
I hope that message is received.
It's just that I think it's important for us to think about all of us no matter what age we are that,
you know,
just to think about what are the healthiest ways for these things to fit into our lives.
And it's not about taking them away or spending less time on them.
(17:01):
It's just being more intentional about using them in healthy ways.
And yeah,
that does mean that you've got some space left over then.
How do you fill it with something?
And I love the way Lawrence is,
you know,
because he ends up with a lot of time on his hands being expelled that could go,
you know,
to get him into even more trouble.
(17:23):
But instead he has this other option,
which I love.
But I can't talk about this book though without talking about grandma because,
you know,
grandma is one of my favorite characters in the book.
I love a grandma in these books.
But I particularly love Lawrence's grandmother because she is not,
she's not lovable as the book begins.
(17:46):
You know,
she and Lawrence have AAA relationship with a lot of friction and grandma also has a lot of friction with Lawrence's mom.
But we like we do with Lawrence,
we learn a lot about her and begin to understand her behavior.
Do you mind talking about grandma just a little bit.
I'm so happy.
(18:07):
I,
I love granny.
You know,
I have heard people describe her as me,
not nice many things.
And when I wrote her,
I thought,
OK,
I will have her be a little prickly in the beginning and then she and Lawrence will have some joint connection by the end of the story.
(18:29):
And that was always my fault.
I did not view her as mean in any way.
She reminds me of a black southern granny,
very similar to my own.
My granny is probably a little nicer,
but she is not like Saccharine Sweet.
And that's another little bit of representation that I wanted to add because I think we had this image of what grandmothers should look like or feel like.
(18:54):
And particularly in this community,
it is a rural community.
It has been through a lot of things historically.
And so she is a representation of her lived experience.
So she does not come off in this way.
That's very smooshy and mushy and soft.
I think Laurence says she doesn't knit hats like most grannies do,
(19:16):
right?
But she shows her love for her family in other ways,
she does it with cooking for them and making sure they are fed.
She also does it by opening her home when her daughter and her Children need it.
And so in some ways she's display.
And so we understand as the story turns that she's sacrificing a lot to help her family,
(19:39):
which she does.
Absolutely.
And without question,
but it's still a little bit tough on her as well.
So throughout the story,
we learned that she has some kind of some old fashioned views that Lawrence doesn't always relate to.
But he does get that she,
that she loves him and she wants the best for him.
(20:00):
And her idea of the best is close to perfection.
And I think throughout the story,
she realizes that he's doing the best he can.
And he's trying and then that eventually ends up being ok with her too.
I love that you use the word prickly to describe her because I think that's perfect,
you know.
But also the thing I,
I love so much about granny is that she provides a,
(20:25):
an example for kids to see of just love looking a lot of different ways because she loves her family fiercely.
She sacrificed a lot for them and you to your,
you know,
she keeps them bed and gives them a roof when they don't have anything else.
And while she may not show her love through hugs and gifts and kisses and,
(20:49):
you know,
all of that,
she shows it in a lot of other ways.
And I just felt like again,
she was,
uh,
she looked and sounded like so many of the grandparents that I new from the students that I taught so many of those grandparents who were raising their grandchildren.
It's a tough thing.
It's a tough shift even as a grandparent to have to do that.
(21:12):
And like I said,
you know,
I watched my grandmother do it and they come from my grandmother and the grandmother in this book,
they come from a different generation where they've had to endure a lot of things and sacrifice in a lot of ways.
Sacrifice is love.
It is what love looks like.
So to them,
it's not this really easy,
(21:33):
smooth life and she wants the best for him.
And so she think that by pushing him,
she's giving him an opportunity at the best.
And so what I tried to do throughout the editing process is make sure I make her as round and full as possible.
So that by the end of the story,
people realize um where she's coming from and they also see her heart in the same way that they see Lawrence's and then they come together.
(22:01):
So I'm,
I'm so happy you brought that up.
She reminds me a lot of my own grandmother.
I've dedicated the book to my grandmother.
So I hope that people will embrace her in the same way that I do.
Is your grandmother still living?
Do you mind me asking that?
Yes,
she is.
She will turn 94 this year.
And I know I'm,
(22:22):
I'm so super blessed to have her.
I know I'm,
I'm going,
I'm gonna get emotional when I talk about it because she is aging and um I really wanted her to be around to,
to see the book and,
and all of that.
And she,
she's,
she's not at a place where she can read it and understand it.
But I showed her the dedication and her name is in it and she's like,
(22:44):
that's my name.
So,
so she,
she,
I,
I still have her in my life and I'm immensely blessed that she,
that I get to have her for as long as I do.
Oh,
I love that so,
so much.
That makes me so happy.
Well,
I,
you know,
feel like we could talk forever,
(23:04):
but I want to be respectful of your time.
So be before as we wrap things up.
I want to make sure I give you some time to talk a little bit about what you're working on to whatever degree you can.
I know sometimes things are top secret.
So whatever you feel comfortable sharing,
what can we expect next details.
I am working on uh another middle grade contemporary realistic novel.
(23:29):
I can't say a whole lot about it because it's not been announced,
but it is coming.
I love middle grade.
And so I'm just kind of right there in that space.
This book,
I can say,
I think this book will feature my first girl main character.
And so I'm super,
super excited to share kind of a new perspective.
So I'm,
I'm really excited that book has been an interesting one to write and fun.
(23:51):
And I've learned a lot throughout that process.
Um One book that has been announced,
it's a picture book.
It's not due out for another couple of years just because that's the nature of picture books,
but it is actually called We Are Joy.
It is my picture book debut and I'm super excited.
It will be illustrated by Kit Thomas and I cannot wait to see their illustrations and what they bring to the art of the book.
(24:16):
And it is about joy and big and small places.
It's a book that kind of highlights Black joy um in community and all of the things that I like to put in books.
But it is perfect to,
to talk about heart and joy and um kind of big emotions.
And so that book is coming slated for 2026 but likely you will see a novel from me before that.
(24:42):
Yay,
I love that we're in our Crystal D Giles era that we have lots coming from you.
That is exciting.
And in the meantime,
I'm sure you're doing school visits and just it away.
Absolutely.
I have a good number of them coming up over the next few months.
It's always,
it's,
it is an exciting thing to meet and talk to students.
(25:03):
I,
I find it to be self fulfilling.
I I'm going to be going to a school that is,
that are reading my first book.
Pay back the block.
And I visited this the same set of schools last year and I met so many students who kind of secretly said I usually don't read the book.
They get assigned to me.
(25:24):
And I thought,
oh no,
but I had one student say I finished the whole book.
I read it.
I'm just like the main character and it,
it literally melted my heart.
I stood there trying not to like be emotional and I go,
oh my God,
I'm so happy.
And so that is the moment that I go.
OK,
this is,
(25:44):
this is the work.
This is,
this is the point of it all.
So I love doing school visits.
Oh yay.
That makes me so happy and it has to be because,
you know,
one misconception is is that,
you know,
uh you all are getting filthy rich off of all these books you're writing.
You know,
this idea that authors and illustrators just make bank after their book is published,
(26:07):
of course,
is not true.
And school visits are a huge part of how you are able to continue writing.
But the meeting with your readers and hearing them talk about what these books mean to them has to be the fuel that keeps you going.
It absolutely does.
I'm,
(26:28):
I'm so happy you kind of dispelled the of,
uh,
writers being super rich.
Um,
I am not one of those people.
Um,
and,
but to your point,
like,
school business are very important because not only it kinda helps us refuel the well,
and get very up close to the reader,
um,
middle grade in particular.
It's,
it's hard to reach the reader because they're not online.
(26:49):
They do not purchase their own books.
And,
and I mean,
you can't,
like,
have a 10 year old on the shoulder and go,
hey,
read my book.
You know,
that would be a little strange.
So,
I mean,
you can,
but you might get in trouble.
Right.
Absolutely.
So,
the best way to,
to talk to a 10 year old is usually in a school environment wherein it is safe and you get to share your work and your inspiration with them.
(27:14):
And then I instantly get motivation and inspiration right back from them.
So yes,
it is.
It's one of the things that I did not realize I would love and I still get nervous,
but after it's over,
I go,
oh,
this is,
this is it.
This is exactly why I write.
Well,
I'm so grateful that you're out there doing this work.
(27:36):
We need you.
And I'm so just,
I don't know,
over the moon for all the readers who get to meet characters like Lawrence and everyone else in your books.
Thank you so much for writing for young people and for keeping on.
We need you right now.
Thank you.
Thank you.
This um This has been great and I will take that with me when I am in the trenches of editing something that I'm that,
(28:02):
that needs a lot of work.
That's right.
Remind you were on your shoulder,
cheering you on.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for tuning in to the reader's heart.
(28:23):
More information about this episode including ways to connect with Crystal as well as a discount code for purchasing her books through book Alicious are available at Library girl.net.
This podcast was created written and recorded by me Jennifer Lagarde.
All rights reserved.
Our theme music was created by com media and is available for free at Pixie Bay's royalty free Music Repository.
(28:47):
And the beautiful illustration for this show was created by Karina Lukin.
If you enjoy our show,
I hope you'll leave us a five star review at wherever you listen to podcasts and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
Believe it or not,
these small steps make a big difference in helping the reader's heart find its audience.
Thank you again for listening.
(29:07):
We'll see you next time and until then happy reading y'all.
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