May 14, 2024 • 36 mins
In this episode, Jasmine Warga chats with Jennifer about the power of read alouds, using stories as conversation starters, and the importance of representation in literature. Jasmine shares her personal journey as a reader and writer, and how books helped her feel less alone. They also talk about Jasmine's latest book, A Rover's Story and her upcoming mystery novel set in an art museum: A Strange Thing Happened in Cherry Hall. The conversation highlights the impact of books on readers' hearts and the need for diverse and engaging stories for middle grade readers.
Show notes and other information related to this episode (including a discount code from Bookelicious) can be found here.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Reader's Heart
03:30 The Power of Read Alouds
06:36 Books as Conversation Starters
08:30 Using Stories to Bridge Chasms
09:23 Writing for Middle Grade Readers
14:34 Book Talk: Rover, A Rover Story
25:34 Writing Mysteries for Middle Grade Readers
29:51 Upcoming Projects
33:08 Conclusion
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
School in general was really hard for me.
It was hard for me,
socially,
especially I was a shy kid.
I was anxious but reading sort of became a safe place.
And I really love to read stories about kids who I felt like were like me in that way that at the beginning,
beginning of the book,
they were maybe an outsider.
And by the end of the book,
they found community or at the beginning of the book,
(00:22):
they didn't think they were brave.
And then by the end of the book,
they learned all the ways in which they were brave and books were sort of the that aspirational roadmap for me.
(00:42):
Hi,
everyone.
And welcome to the Reader's heart,
a podcast of conversations with authors and illustrators about children's literature as a vehicle for empathy and joy in a dark world.
The reader's heart is rooted in the belief that our world needs the magic of children's literature.
Now more than ever.
So let's get started this week.
My guest is Jasmine Varga,
(01:03):
who is not only the author of several books of My Heart,
but she's also the subject of a joke that I share with Mr Xu.
Now,
if you've ever seen or heard John Shoe present or share books that he loves.
Chances are you've heard him mention books by Jasmine Varga who just happens to also live in John's neighborhood.
(01:26):
Now,
when he talks about this connection,
it is so joyful y'all.
But I love to tease John about how every time he mentions Jasmine,
she seems to live just a little bit closer to him.
I often joke that soon they will be roommates.
But the truth after spending time in conversation with her,
I kind of wish that Jasmine Warr was my neighbor too.
(01:48):
She is thoughtful and wise and utterly delightful.
I loved chatting with her about the connective power of story about how social media lies to us by amplifying all the self doubts in our brains and about her extraordinary books like a rover story and the upcoming a strange thing happened in Cherry Hall.
(02:12):
I hope you love our conversation as much as I did that said as always,
don't forget to stick around till the end of the episode.
For more information,
including a discount code from our friends at Book Alicious.
Hi,
Jasmine.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Oh,
I've been looking forward to our conversation today as you know,
(02:36):
I'm a huge fan of your books and I we will definitely make time to chat about what you've got coming up because you have a new book coming this year.
Is that right?
In 2024?
Yeah,
it's coming out this fall and I'm so excited about it.
It's very different,
but I'm,
(02:56):
I think has some of those similar qualities.
So,
yay.
Well,
we will,
we will definitely make time for that.
In the meantime,
I love to start these conversations by thinking about readers hearts in a personal way.
I called this podcast the reader's heart because I'm really kind of fascinated by the ways that children's literature in particular can shape and inform our heart and help us figure out who we want to be as we walk through the world.
(03:23):
And so I wondered about your reader's heart and how you became a reader and you can just tackle that any way you like.
Yeah.
No,
I love this question because I think about it all the time when I'm writing.
And for me,
my story as a reader actually starts with storytelling,
right?
And hearing a story,
which I think for so many of us,
(03:45):
um that is the beginning.
And so I'm always going back to myself when I was three years old.
One of my earliest childhood memories,
just sitting on my grandmother's lap and my grandmother,
my whole life lived in Jordan.
And so I only got to see her hand of times,
but when she would come to visit,
uh she would tell me the best stories and that they just captivated me.
(04:08):
And I don't have a great memory of exactly what the story she was telling me was.
But I remember the feeling right,
that feeling of being held in anticipation of waiting,
a feeling my heart connect to hers.
And then I would say I was slower in my class to learn to read.
And I remember being frustrated by that because I loved stories so much and I already wanted to be a writer.
(04:33):
And I remember feeling like it was so hard for me.
And then finally it collected and school in general was really hard for me.
It was hard for me,
socially,
especially I was a shy kid.
I was anxious but reading sort of became a safe place.
And I really love to read stories about kids who I felt like were like me in that way that at the beginning of the book,
(04:56):
they or maybe an outsider.
And by the end of the book,
they found community or at the beginning of the book,
they didn't think they were brave.
And then by the end of the book,
they learned all the ways in which they were brave.
And books were sort of the that aspirational road map for me.
They made me believe that the world was more vibrant and bigger and more diverse than my elementary school and middle school experience would have led me to believe.
(05:21):
And so I think about books that way.
Now I read books,
same way as an adult,
whether I'm reading books that are intended for young people or intended for adults.
I tend to really love misfit stories,
stories about people who feel alone and realize they aren't alone.
And I think that's sort of the through line and all of the work that I do too.
(05:42):
Um,
which I think is centered a lot around this idea of belonging and home because that's sort of what my reader heart and my writer heart are always sort of wondering about and grappling with.
Gosh,
I wish it weren't true.
But I feel like in 2024 we need more stories that tackle just exactly what you're talking about.
(06:03):
And I,
I do want us to talk about that,
but I want to circle back to something else you said real quickly and that has to do with the idea of being read to or have a storytelling,
you know,
the idea of sharing stories in an oral tradition.
I think a lot about read aloud as a teacher and a librarian and the experience of associating reading with joy and connection and all of that.
(06:31):
And so I'm,
I'm wondering as you write because I have said for years,
I feel like all of your books lend themselves to read aloud.
And I know lots of classroom teachers and librarians who read your books to kids.
And I just wonder when you're writing.
Do you think about that at all?
Or are you thinking about how?
Yeah.
Ok.
You nodding.
Will you talk about that?
Yeah.
(06:51):
I mean,
for me,
my favorite way still to experience a story is orally.
I love audio books.
I feel that when I'm hearing a story told to me,
my imagination is able to do is able to lift in an even higher level.
And I love the,
I loved the experience as a kid.
(07:12):
My favorite time every day was when our teacher would read aloud to us that felt like such a treasure.
And so to know my books are being read aloud is the dream come true.
I had a mother who read aloud to me every night.
And that is part of the reason I love reading because I think she taught me the joy of reading before I had the skills to be able to read at that level on my own.
(07:37):
And so I was exposed to stories and was fulfilled in that way.
And I think that's so important,
right?
That balanced diet,
especially when kids are learning how to read,
to make sure that we are infusing them with all of that joy.
And they're,
they're associating reading with story and imagination and not just this task that can sometimes be really tough.
(07:58):
And I know that it's really tough because I was that kid who fonts were,
was super,
products are still super,
super tough for me.
I have two young daughters and I'm working with them now on reading and figuring out sometimes I can't,
I,
I don't know how to explain the sound out the word because my brain that just wasn't the way that it worked.
And so just making sure that all of our young people,
(08:19):
they have a part of their life where they're able to think of reading as fun and joy and story.
Um,
I think is so important and I love that.
And I do,
I read my books aloud to myself to see how they sound because I think,
you know,
storytelling originally was an oral form.
Um And,
and that's how we communicated with one another as a,
as human beings,
(08:40):
right?
For so long.
And that's a tradition.
And so,
uh while I love read,
closing up and reading a book by myself,
I also absolutely love hearing a book aloud and feel like that just bonds people together,
that experience of,
of all hearing and enjoying and having that same daydream.
I think,
you know,
there's a misconception about reading,
(09:03):
being a solitary pursuit.
And really,
you know,
my donly Miller often says the one thing that readers enjoy more than reading is talking about the books that they're reading and sharing that story with other people.
And what you're saying right now really um aligns with that,
that idea that as readers,
(09:24):
we are really seeking community,
not an isolated experience,
but an opportunity to connect 100%.
And I think especially for those kids who maybe are like me that are more,
were more shy or more anxious stories,
provide such a great platform to make that social connection.
I remember I always felt more comfortable sharing an idea about a story because I understood how to enter that conversation and was kind of provided an emotional,
(09:53):
emotional vocabulary from the story.
And so I love that about books that they are conversation starters and can also help to forge those connections for those of us who may be more tentative about how do I approach a classmate or how do I enter into this discussion?
It sort of creates a door uh to do that for us.
Yeah.
And in a world like the one we're living in right now where in some ways we're hyper connected,
(10:19):
you know,
we're connected,
at least digitally to people all around the world in ways that we've never been able to be before.
And yet,
ironically,
we are also,
there's also seems to be such a chasm between people right now in terms of their ability to understand and empathize with one another.
(10:42):
And story gives us a tool for bridging that chasm and it feels like your books are particularly about that in an,
in an intentional way.
Does that feel right to you?
That definitely feels right.
I think that so much of what I'm hoping to do with my books is to help kids feel less alone,
(11:02):
to know somebody else has also felt that way.
And probably the person who's sitting right next to them in class has made,
we also felt that way,
but is maybe also scared to express that.
And again,
I feel like stories by making us feel seen by making us understand.
We're not the only person who's ever felt that way can make us feel brave enough to then go out in the real world and make that connection with a classmate or with our family member to really have that discussion about what we're feeling in our heart or see what's troubling us in our brain and stories.
(11:36):
They help,
right?
They help give you that springboard.
And that's what I'm always hoping my books will do for a young person because that's what did for me when I was young.
Is that why you write for middle grade readers in particular?
Yeah,
I always say that this is my favorite age range to write for,
for a couple of reasons.
The first was that that age was so hard for me.
(11:58):
Those were the hardest years of my life.
And so I never needed books more than when I was that age.
And I was also never a better reader than when I was that age.
I think our middle grade readers are magic,
that ability that they have,
their imagination is so wild and so vibrant and yet there's so smart,
(12:19):
right?
And so they sit on that intersection between introspection and imagination.
And so you're able to really challenge them to grapple about some of the more difficult things about the world,
but they have no problem going with you through the magical portal or uh you know,
imagining the interior life of a Mars Rover.
That's not a big leap to ask them to do.
(12:40):
They're willing to go there with you.
And so I,
I love that,
but I also just,
I do,
I love that.
Those are my readers because I love being able to show up and say,
hey,
I know sixth grade was really hard for me or I know fourth grade was really hard for me and it's ok,
it's ok that it's hard.
That doesn't mean that it's always gonna be hard and it also doesn't mean that things can't get better and then you know that you're gonna get better,
(13:06):
you're gonna learn more about yourself and you're gonna find the things that you need in order to shine at your full brightness.
And I love,
I love getting to see those kids.
And um one really special thing,
I don't know if you've noticed this from visiting school.
So I feel like kids today have learned this hand symbol of like me too.
(13:27):
And when I do school visits and I talk about being a lonely kid or a shy kid,
I see lots of this and that's just so affirming for me.
I,
I wish that I could go back in time and tell my 10 year old self or my 11 year old self,
you know,
that someday I would find that kind of community and I would find that kind of community through books.
And that's what I want for,
(13:49):
for all kids,
you know,
is to find their,
to feel like they have that sense of belonging.
I am,
I just,
I feel like I'm responding,
uh my heart is responding to everything you're saying in part because I taught middle school for 17 years.
And so those kids are exactly how you describe them in so much as their old enough to get things on a different level than say a third or fourth grader would.
(14:18):
But they're also still young enough to a have not made all of the decisions about themselves.
They haven't decided who they are,
who they're not yet quite yet.
Um But also they're still young enough to be really honest with you about their connections to things.
They're not too cool yet for that kind of vulnerability.
(14:38):
Um And so I lo I imagine you must have lots of great experiences in visiting schools with kids who are willing to share their truth with you because you shared yours with them through your books.
Yeah,
that's what I always tell people.
I think that every author has a different presentation style,
right?
Some people are really charismatic or really funny or have a really dramatic stage presence and I don't have any of those things and in lots of ways I still at heart and that very shy,
(15:10):
awkward 10 year old,
what I try to do is show them that,
you know,
show up and give them that vulnerability.
And I think you're right that what's amazing about this age group is they are like,
why,
like you're saying that you're saying that you felt that and you're saying that you felt that in front of everyone else and maybe that gives me permission to also feel that and be honest that I felt that um and I do think they respond so well to vulnerable and that's why I think it's so important to be vulnerable and honest in the writing also because they are so they suss out any kind of inauthenticity really quickly and I love writing for them for that reason,
(15:48):
if you can't take it with them,
right?
Well,
this is a good opportunity for us to segue into your most recent book then.
Um a Rover Story which is a book of my Heart and a book of so many people.
So,
I mean,
I've loved all your books,
Jasmine.
I mean,
I feel like each book just gets better and better,
(16:08):
but a Rover story was a sort of a departure,
a different book from your previous two.
And um for those readers or excuse me,
listeners who maybe haven't read the book yet.
First of all,
press pause,
go correct that error and then come back and listen to our conversation.
But would you be willing to give a short book,
(16:30):
talk of that book?
Just share a little bit about it before we start chatting about it?
Yeah,
certainly.
And thank you so much for,
for loving the book and connecting with the book.
So,
a rover story is about a Mars Rover named Resilience and it follows resilience from his first moment sense of consciousness and the jet propulsion laboratory at NASA all the way to his dangerous journey to Mars.
(16:54):
But it's really to me a book about difference because as resilience is learning about his mission in the lab,
he also starts to realize that he's learning and feeling human emotions and he wonders what this means and he begins to not only feel worse,
the worry that he has about how dangerous his mission is gonna be and all this pressure of wanting to do a really good job.
(17:17):
But he also worries that the fact that he's worried means that he's different,
that robots aren't supposed to have feelings.
And he worries that his difference means that there's a flaw in him and that flaw is going to make him unsuccessful at his mission and that he's going to disappoint everyone.
And so I think the book is about lots of different things.
It's about space exploration and adventure and what does it mean to be a friend?
(17:41):
And what does it mean to be brave.
But it's also about what does it mean to feel really big things and sometimes what does it mean to feel things that you can't quite describe or worry that you're feeling too many things.
And I was a really,
really sensitive kid and I'm still a really,
really sensitive adult and it's taken me a long time to accept that about myself and under understand that just because I'm feeling something more deeply than somebody else's doesn't mean that I'm flawed or there's something wrong with me and learning how to express that.
(18:11):
And um so I was really excited to me.
This is moreover,
story is kind of the book of my 10 year old 11 year old heart and that I loved science fiction and I loved adventure,
but I also loved books about feelings and especially like I said at the big getting books about difference and books about characters maybe feel a little bit different.
(18:31):
And so I think a Rover story is sort of both of those things and that's what I'm really interested in trying to do moving forward is how do I talk about those things,
but also put them in the framework of a story that has those sort of exciting adventure or genre elements that I loved so much as a kid.
(18:52):
I,
I feel like that's one of the magical things about a Rover story is that there,
it's got layers and layers of meaning on one level.
There are readers who will just connect to the adventure sci fi aspect of it.
And then there are some readers who are gonna connect to the story of the humans who are involved in resilience journey and the conflicts and traumas that they are going through.
(19:23):
And then there are some kids who are going to connect on another level as you say about this idea of feelings and what do they say about us and really how it's our feelings and our emotions that connect us and make us more alike really than different.
Even though at the age of,
(19:45):
you know,
at middle grade for your readers,
so many kids feel like they're,
they're the only one who's ever felt this way and no one else in the world could understand what they're going through.
And especially right now I feel like in,
I don't know,
I'm about 100 years older than you are jasmine.
But I,
you know,
I don't think either of us grew up in middle school or at that time with social media.
(20:07):
And so the pressure of not only trying to navigate your own feelings,
but in a world where it feels like everybody else's life is perfect for sure.
I say that social media is so damaging to my middle age strain,
right?
I'll turn it on and if it's a bad day,
I think,
oh my gosh,
everyone's more productive than me or everyone loves everyone's book so much more than they love mine.
(20:30):
Or everyone else is such a better mother than I am or everyone else is able to take care of their house in such a better way.
And I'm a grown adult who's,
who has gone through,
you know,
has been in therapy and has all these things and it still is so toxic for my brain.
And so I can't imagine being in middle school and having had social media.
(20:50):
And that makes my heart break for these kids of just I know my own feelings of inadequacy and difference would have been amplified times 10.
And that's why I really hope for kids that they're able to get that reprieve from books and sort of have their brain and hearts sort of nurtured um in this other way of knowing they aren't the only people who,
(21:16):
who have ever felt inadequate or alone or different.
And like you said,
I love what you said about that our emotions making us actually more alike than different.
And it took me so long to understand that.
Right.
I was so obsessed with what does it mean to fit in.
And it wasn't until I let myself be myself and feel all the things I was feeling that I realized,
(21:38):
oh,
this is connection because other people also feel these and it's all of that is so fundamentally true that it makes the times we're living in feel so upside down in so much as you know,
not only are we living in a time when more and more books are being removed from library shelves,
(21:59):
public and school libraries to limit kids access to the kinds of stories that help them understand the very things that we're talking about.
But also we're living in a time where middle grade lit in particular is really struggling to find its audience because sales of middle grade books are way down.
(22:20):
The big booksellers aren't supporting middle grade fiction in the same way that they used to.
And it all feels so like,
you know,
like you're,
I feel like sometimes I'm living in the emperor's new clothes and I'm the only one you can see that the dude is naked like you're like,
this just feels so contrary to reality.
I and I don't know exactly what to do about it.
(22:42):
And,
and I don't know that there's a question here so much jasmine other than,
hey,
do you know how to fix it?
But I,
I just wonder if you're feeling some of those same pressures.
I definitely am feeling that I think especially what you're saying about the landscape.
I also think though that I'm understanding better who my reader is when I go.
And because I've been doing lots of school visits and I'm responding to that and how I write Rover story was intentionally written with really short chapters and lots of white space.
(23:11):
And I think that we have to meet kids where they are.
And I understand that if you have a long school day,
you've spent time in this,
in an environment where you feel really stressed and really overwhelmed.
And you also have your device which is stealing a lot of your attention span,
it could be really intimidating to open a book and see just a lot of thick text.
(23:33):
And so um a Rover story and my new book that's coming out this fall were written with this idea that white space is sort of like a hug for the reader and these deep exhales and purposely trying to paste the book.
Also having the book have they're shorter books.
I mean,
a Rover story technically isn't kids always want to ask like how many pages,
(23:55):
but we understand right?
When a publisher puts together a book,
the amount of pages doesn't necessarily transfer to the word count,
which is what I'm talking about.
And both the word count of a Rover story and a strange thing happened in Cherry Hall are shorter than the word count of my previous middle grade novels.
Because I'm also thinking about how can I tell a story that's going to be best suited to my readers today.
(24:20):
And I also think back to the middle grade books I read as a middle grader,
I think they were also shorter.
I think we had this moment where middle grade really ballooned into being.
And a lot of the books were super fantastic.
This isn't saying anything negative about those books.
I've also written longer books,
you know,
we were all in this moment.
(24:40):
And I think now realizing,
ok,
we what,
what does our reader really need and how can I tell the story in a way to best,
welcome them into the story and make the story feel like an invitation for them?
Um And then kind of go from there.
But I guess that is what I've been thinking about and I'm with you that I think there's so many different pieces to this,
(25:03):
but that's the one I feel like I at least have some control over,
which is how do I write my book and how do I try to make my book as welcoming as possible to the middle grade reader of today?
Given everything our kids are face.
Well,
this is such a good opportunity for us to transition into a strange thing happened at Cherry Hall.
(25:24):
But before we do that,
I just want to say,
I feel like I want a T shirt or a tattoo or something that says white space on the page is a hug to the reader um or an exhale.
I love that description.
And I think there you're exactly right.
There are a place and there are readers for really long,
(25:45):
you know,
um maybe description driven middle grade text.
There are readers for those books and there are some of those books that will that are books of my heart for sure.
I think I like all things.
It's about finding a balance,
you know,
having that pendulum swing back just a little bit for those readers who,
like you say,
(26:06):
that particular summit feels intimidating to reach for sure.
And so now when I'm writing,
I think about it,
then maybe I'll have three descriptions and I challenge myself.
How can I use language in the best,
like economical way here.
How can I merge this into the best possible description so I can get the most thing for my buck and that I do,
(26:26):
I am a descriptive writer.
I want to paint that really vivid picture for the reader.
Well,
also having the story move at a piece that hopefully is going to feel welcoming to them and correct and that's all a calibration,
right?
You know,
and,
and my book is gonna hopefully work for some readers and it's definitely not gonna work for other readers.
(26:47):
And I think that's what's great too about book choice that we're gonna have a,
a wide gamut of,
of different styles.
But I'm definitely recently as a reader who has been struggling since the pandemic myself to be able to fall into books and responding to that,
that I respond better to books with lots of whitespace and even books that have more visual illustrations in them and things like that are really helpful for my own brain and sort of trying to see if maybe that's the same for some of my readers.
(27:17):
Well,
I want you to tell us a little bit about this new book.
I'm currently trying to bribe um Everyone I know who can get me a copy of the Arc.
Uh So expect your envelope of cash soon.
But uh I'm anxious to hear about it and I,
when I post the show notes for this episode,
(27:37):
I'll include an image of the cover which I think is so gorgeous and also provocative in the way that it makes,
it makes me want to know more about the book.
So tell me a little bit about what we can expect.
Oh,
awesome.
Well,
yeah,
I love the cover and I'm so grateful to the design team and the illustrator Matt Rockefeller who also did the cover for a rover story,
(28:02):
who's who did the cover for a strange thing um that happened in Cherry Hall and it's exactly the vibe that I wanted.
And so the book um in a nutshell takes place or it centers around um this art museum.
And at the art museum,
the book opens in a moment in time where a painting has been stolen from the art museum.
(28:23):
But the painting that's been stolen is not a particularly famous painting.
It's a painting that hung in a that corner and was really small.
No one really thought about this painting until it went missing.
And now everyone is so curious why would someone go to all the trouble to break into this art museum to steal this one singular painting that no one really knows that much about that was done by a pretty mysterious aloof artist.
(28:47):
And the painting is of a girl who no one knows who the girl in the painting is.
And when our book opens,
our main character,
Rami is visiting the art museum and he sees a girl in the hallway who looks exactly like the girl who's depicted in the painting that went missing.
And he slowly comes to realize that most everyone else can't see her.
(29:09):
And he's trying to figure out who is she and is she a ghost.
And so we follow Rami on this journey and adventure.
But then there's also a couple of other narrators,
which is sort of harkening back to some books of my heart like Holes and Westing Game where we have different perspectives that sort of come together.
And so there's a mystery narrator perspective,
(29:31):
uh who you start to figure out who that is as the book goes on.
And then there's also the narration from my favorite character in the book,
who is Agatha and Agatha is the turtle that lives in the garden behind the art museum.
And Agatha knows who stole the painting,
but she can't quite get the humans in the book uh to pay attention to the clues that she is trying to leave.
(29:53):
Um And so to me the book is a book about,
it's a book about loneliness,
but it's a book about how art can make us feel seen and how art can help us connect.
And what does it mean to be represented in a piece of art?
And why does that make us feel seen?
And what does it mean to feel invisible and then how that can change when somebody really sees us?
(30:17):
And so it's my first mystery and I'm really excited about that because I loved mysteries,
um,
as a kid,
and I actually got the idea to want to write a mystery novel from doing school visits.
And we,
this is so relevant to the conversation we were having earlier about meeting our readers where they are.
I kept getting asked over and over again.
(30:37):
Are you going to write a mystery?
And I thought that was so strange,
like why of all genres,
our kids asking for that.
But then I started thinking about the appeal of mystery and why I loved mysteries as a kid.
And I think I loved mysteries because I felt like I was a mystery.
I felt like the world didn't understand a lot about me.
(30:58):
But I also felt like there was a lot about the world that I didn't understand.
And so I kind of came to this book by backing in just sort of thinking about the idea of a mystery and why mysteries are appealing.
So it's kind of a book that's sort of a love letter to mysteries um in a way.
So I'm really excited about it.
It I'm hoping will be a super fun mystery for kids to read while also having a lot of those layers we talked about,
(31:26):
of being about connection and loneliness and particularly the way that I think art um can help us to connect jasmine.
That sounds incredible.
I am so excited for this book.
You must be so excited too.
Yeah,
I'm,
I'm super,
super excited for it to be out in September,
(31:47):
but also of course,
nervous.
This is the part in the process where I'm mostly finished with the book and then you're sitting and waiting in anticipation to see.
Are other people gonna get it?
Are people gonna connect with it?
Um Are people gonna love Agatha the way that I love Agatha?
And,
and uh so you're kind of in that weeding uh period which um but yeah,
(32:07):
I can't wait for September and to introduce all these characters uh to readers.
Well,
I don't know how anyone couldn't love a clue dropping turtle.
I mean,
I know it,
it only what you've just said about Agatha and I'm already in love with her.
So I don't know how that could even exist.
And if people don't,
I don't wanna know them,
(32:28):
but I also just wanna say,
you know,
as you were talking about mysteries,
it that rings so true to me.
I,
when I was a middle school librarian.
Kids would constantly asked me for mysteries.
And I remember feeling so frustrated because most of the books I would have to recommend the kids were so much older because there's not a lot of contemporary mysteries for that age group.
(32:53):
You either you have mysteries for kids that are much older,
you know,
like young adults or for adults that the mystery genre is huge for adult readers.
But for middle grade,
there just isn't a lot.
And I remember a kid saying to me when I asked him one time about why he liked mystery so much.
And he said it makes my brain work in a different way.
(33:14):
And I love that you have listened to your own readers and tackled this for your next book.
It sounds amazing.
Thank you.
Yeah,
I'm so excited about it and it's,
uh made me fall in love with mysteries all over again because I was reading so many mysteries while trying to put together the puzzle piece of this one.
(33:35):
Oh,
well,
I can't wait and that'll be September.
So we all have to add that to our preorder list with that said,
I know that your focus right now is getting this book into the world.
But is there anything you can tell us about what's coming after that or is it all top secret at this point?
It's kind of top secret at this point.
But there will be,
it will be two more middle grade novels.
(33:57):
So,
um,
and I'm hoping in maybe a few months I'll be able to talk about that more.
Um,
but I have a couple of different ideas,
uh,
that I'm playing around with and I'm really excited to see sort of where they go.
But the thing for me about books is that I never really know if an idea is going to take flight until I'm really fully into the book.
(34:19):
Um And so I sort of have to keep it as my own private thing until it,
it fully comes alive because you don't wanna sort of make it fly before it's ready to,
if that makes sense.
Sure.
Sure.
All I need to know is that you're,
you've got books on the way because we really need them.
(34:39):
Thank you so much,
not just for the time you've given us today,
but for the work you're doing,
I feel like it's so important in 2024 and I'm so grateful for all the readers hearts that you touched through your stories.
Well,
thank you and same to you.
Thank you so much for having me on here and it makes me so happy to know you're curating these discussions because I feel like we're just in a moment in time where it can be easy to feel a lot of despair around just the climate that we're in.
(35:06):
And so remembering,
um how much joy there can be in doing what all of us do too is a really nice uh thing.
And I'm gonna carry that into the rest of my week.
(35:28):
That's it for another episode of the reader's heart.
Thank you so much for joining us this week.
For more information about this episode,
including ways to connect with Jasmine as well as a discount code for purchasing her books through book alicious Check out Library girl.net.
This podcast was created written and recorded by me Jennifer Lagarde.
All rights reserved.
Our theme music was created by Comma media and is available for free at Pixar Royalty Free Music Repository.
(35:54):
And the beautiful illustration for our show was created by Karina Lukin.
If you enjoyed this podcast,
gosh,
I hope you'll leave us a five star review wherever you listened and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
Believe it or not,
this small step makes a big difference in helping the reader heart find its audience.
Thank you again for listening.
We'll see you next time and until then happy reading y'all.
School in general was really hard for me.
It was hard for me,
socially,
especially I was a shy kid.
I was anxious but reading sort of became a safe place.
And I really love to read stories about kids who I felt like were like me in that way that at the beginning,
beginning of the book,
they were maybe an outsider.
And by the end of the book,
they found community or at the beginning of the book,
(00:22):
they didn't think they were brave.
And then by the end of the book,
they learned all the ways in which they were brave and books were sort of the that aspirational roadmap for me.
(00:42):
Hi,
everyone.
And welcome to the Reader's heart,
a podcast of conversations with authors and illustrators about children's literature as a vehicle for empathy and joy in a dark world.
The reader's heart is rooted in the belief that our world needs the magic of children's literature.
Now more than ever.
So let's get started this week.
My guest is Jasmine Varga,
(01:03):
who is not only the author of several books of My Heart,
but she's also the subject of a joke that I share with Mr Xu.
Now,
if you've ever seen or heard John Shoe present or share books that he loves.
Chances are you've heard him mention books by Jasmine Varga who just happens to also live in John's neighborhood.
(01:26):
Now,
when he talks about this connection,
it is so joyful y'all.
But I love to tease John about how every time he mentions Jasmine,
she seems to live just a little bit closer to him.
I often joke that soon they will be roommates.
But the truth after spending time in conversation with her,
I kind of wish that Jasmine Warr was my neighbor too.
(01:48):
She is thoughtful and wise and utterly delightful.
I loved chatting with her about the connective power of story about how social media lies to us by amplifying all the self doubts in our brains and about her extraordinary books like a rover story and the upcoming a strange thing happened in Cherry Hall.
(02:12):
I hope you love our conversation as much as I did that said as always,
don't forget to stick around till the end of the episode.
For more information,
including a discount code from our friends at Book Alicious.
Hi,
Jasmine.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Oh,
I've been looking forward to our conversation today as you know,
(02:36):
I'm a huge fan of your books and I we will definitely make time to chat about what you've got coming up because you have a new book coming this year.
Is that right?
In 2024?
Yeah,
it's coming out this fall and I'm so excited about it.
It's very different,
but I'm,
(02:56):
I think has some of those similar qualities.
So,
yay.
Well,
we will,
we will definitely make time for that.
In the meantime,
I love to start these conversations by thinking about readers hearts in a personal way.
I called this podcast the reader's heart because I'm really kind of fascinated by the ways that children's literature in particular can shape and inform our heart and help us figure out who we want to be as we walk through the world.
(03:23):
And so I wondered about your reader's heart and how you became a reader and you can just tackle that any way you like.
Yeah.
No,
I love this question because I think about it all the time when I'm writing.
And for me,
my story as a reader actually starts with storytelling,
right?
And hearing a story,
which I think for so many of us,
(03:45):
um that is the beginning.
And so I'm always going back to myself when I was three years old.
One of my earliest childhood memories,
just sitting on my grandmother's lap and my grandmother,
my whole life lived in Jordan.
And so I only got to see her hand of times,
but when she would come to visit,
uh she would tell me the best stories and that they just captivated me.
(04:08):
And I don't have a great memory of exactly what the story she was telling me was.
But I remember the feeling right,
that feeling of being held in anticipation of waiting,
a feeling my heart connect to hers.
And then I would say I was slower in my class to learn to read.
And I remember being frustrated by that because I loved stories so much and I already wanted to be a writer.
(04:33):
And I remember feeling like it was so hard for me.
And then finally it collected and school in general was really hard for me.
It was hard for me,
socially,
especially I was a shy kid.
I was anxious but reading sort of became a safe place.
And I really love to read stories about kids who I felt like were like me in that way that at the beginning of the book,
(04:56):
they or maybe an outsider.
And by the end of the book,
they found community or at the beginning of the book,
they didn't think they were brave.
And then by the end of the book,
they learned all the ways in which they were brave.
And books were sort of the that aspirational road map for me.
They made me believe that the world was more vibrant and bigger and more diverse than my elementary school and middle school experience would have led me to believe.
(05:21):
And so I think about books that way.
Now I read books,
same way as an adult,
whether I'm reading books that are intended for young people or intended for adults.
I tend to really love misfit stories,
stories about people who feel alone and realize they aren't alone.
And I think that's sort of the through line and all of the work that I do too.
(05:42):
Um,
which I think is centered a lot around this idea of belonging and home because that's sort of what my reader heart and my writer heart are always sort of wondering about and grappling with.
Gosh,
I wish it weren't true.
But I feel like in 2024 we need more stories that tackle just exactly what you're talking about.
(06:03):
And I,
I do want us to talk about that,
but I want to circle back to something else you said real quickly and that has to do with the idea of being read to or have a storytelling,
you know,
the idea of sharing stories in an oral tradition.
I think a lot about read aloud as a teacher and a librarian and the experience of associating reading with joy and connection and all of that.
(06:31):
And so I'm,
I'm wondering as you write because I have said for years,
I feel like all of your books lend themselves to read aloud.
And I know lots of classroom teachers and librarians who read your books to kids.
And I just wonder when you're writing.
Do you think about that at all?
Or are you thinking about how?
Yeah.
Ok.
You nodding.
Will you talk about that?
Yeah.
(06:51):
I mean,
for me,
my favorite way still to experience a story is orally.
I love audio books.
I feel that when I'm hearing a story told to me,
my imagination is able to do is able to lift in an even higher level.
And I love the,
I loved the experience as a kid.
(07:12):
My favorite time every day was when our teacher would read aloud to us that felt like such a treasure.
And so to know my books are being read aloud is the dream come true.
I had a mother who read aloud to me every night.
And that is part of the reason I love reading because I think she taught me the joy of reading before I had the skills to be able to read at that level on my own.
(07:37):
And so I was exposed to stories and was fulfilled in that way.
And I think that's so important,
right?
That balanced diet,
especially when kids are learning how to read,
to make sure that we are infusing them with all of that joy.
And they're,
they're associating reading with story and imagination and not just this task that can sometimes be really tough.
(07:58):
And I know that it's really tough because I was that kid who fonts were,
was super,
products are still super,
super tough for me.
I have two young daughters and I'm working with them now on reading and figuring out sometimes I can't,
I,
I don't know how to explain the sound out the word because my brain that just wasn't the way that it worked.
And so just making sure that all of our young people,
(08:19):
they have a part of their life where they're able to think of reading as fun and joy and story.
Um,
I think is so important and I love that.
And I do,
I read my books aloud to myself to see how they sound because I think,
you know,
storytelling originally was an oral form.
Um And,
and that's how we communicated with one another as a,
as human beings,
(08:40):
right?
For so long.
And that's a tradition.
And so,
uh while I love read,
closing up and reading a book by myself,
I also absolutely love hearing a book aloud and feel like that just bonds people together,
that experience of,
of all hearing and enjoying and having that same daydream.
I think,
you know,
there's a misconception about reading,
(09:03):
being a solitary pursuit.
And really,
you know,
my donly Miller often says the one thing that readers enjoy more than reading is talking about the books that they're reading and sharing that story with other people.
And what you're saying right now really um aligns with that,
that idea that as readers,
(09:24):
we are really seeking community,
not an isolated experience,
but an opportunity to connect 100%.
And I think especially for those kids who maybe are like me that are more,
were more shy or more anxious stories,
provide such a great platform to make that social connection.
I remember I always felt more comfortable sharing an idea about a story because I understood how to enter that conversation and was kind of provided an emotional,
(09:53):
emotional vocabulary from the story.
And so I love that about books that they are conversation starters and can also help to forge those connections for those of us who may be more tentative about how do I approach a classmate or how do I enter into this discussion?
It sort of creates a door uh to do that for us.
Yeah.
And in a world like the one we're living in right now where in some ways we're hyper connected,
(10:19):
you know,
we're connected,
at least digitally to people all around the world in ways that we've never been able to be before.
And yet,
ironically,
we are also,
there's also seems to be such a chasm between people right now in terms of their ability to understand and empathize with one another.
(10:42):
And story gives us a tool for bridging that chasm and it feels like your books are particularly about that in an,
in an intentional way.
Does that feel right to you?
That definitely feels right.
I think that so much of what I'm hoping to do with my books is to help kids feel less alone,
(11:02):
to know somebody else has also felt that way.
And probably the person who's sitting right next to them in class has made,
we also felt that way,
but is maybe also scared to express that.
And again,
I feel like stories by making us feel seen by making us understand.
We're not the only person who's ever felt that way can make us feel brave enough to then go out in the real world and make that connection with a classmate or with our family member to really have that discussion about what we're feeling in our heart or see what's troubling us in our brain and stories.
(11:36):
They help,
right?
They help give you that springboard.
And that's what I'm always hoping my books will do for a young person because that's what did for me when I was young.
Is that why you write for middle grade readers in particular?
Yeah,
I always say that this is my favorite age range to write for,
for a couple of reasons.
The first was that that age was so hard for me.
(11:58):
Those were the hardest years of my life.
And so I never needed books more than when I was that age.
And I was also never a better reader than when I was that age.
I think our middle grade readers are magic,
that ability that they have,
their imagination is so wild and so vibrant and yet there's so smart,
(12:19):
right?
And so they sit on that intersection between introspection and imagination.
And so you're able to really challenge them to grapple about some of the more difficult things about the world,
but they have no problem going with you through the magical portal or uh you know,
imagining the interior life of a Mars Rover.
That's not a big leap to ask them to do.
(12:40):
They're willing to go there with you.
And so I,
I love that,
but I also just,
I do,
I love that.
Those are my readers because I love being able to show up and say,
hey,
I know sixth grade was really hard for me or I know fourth grade was really hard for me and it's ok,
it's ok that it's hard.
That doesn't mean that it's always gonna be hard and it also doesn't mean that things can't get better and then you know that you're gonna get better,
(13:06):
you're gonna learn more about yourself and you're gonna find the things that you need in order to shine at your full brightness.
And I love,
I love getting to see those kids.
And um one really special thing,
I don't know if you've noticed this from visiting school.
So I feel like kids today have learned this hand symbol of like me too.
(13:27):
And when I do school visits and I talk about being a lonely kid or a shy kid,
I see lots of this and that's just so affirming for me.
I,
I wish that I could go back in time and tell my 10 year old self or my 11 year old self,
you know,
that someday I would find that kind of community and I would find that kind of community through books.
And that's what I want for,
(13:49):
for all kids,
you know,
is to find their,
to feel like they have that sense of belonging.
I am,
I just,
I feel like I'm responding,
uh my heart is responding to everything you're saying in part because I taught middle school for 17 years.
And so those kids are exactly how you describe them in so much as their old enough to get things on a different level than say a third or fourth grader would.
(14:18):
But they're also still young enough to a have not made all of the decisions about themselves.
They haven't decided who they are,
who they're not yet quite yet.
Um But also they're still young enough to be really honest with you about their connections to things.
They're not too cool yet for that kind of vulnerability.
(14:38):
Um And so I lo I imagine you must have lots of great experiences in visiting schools with kids who are willing to share their truth with you because you shared yours with them through your books.
Yeah,
that's what I always tell people.
I think that every author has a different presentation style,
right?
Some people are really charismatic or really funny or have a really dramatic stage presence and I don't have any of those things and in lots of ways I still at heart and that very shy,
(15:10):
awkward 10 year old,
what I try to do is show them that,
you know,
show up and give them that vulnerability.
And I think you're right that what's amazing about this age group is they are like,
why,
like you're saying that you're saying that you felt that and you're saying that you felt that in front of everyone else and maybe that gives me permission to also feel that and be honest that I felt that um and I do think they respond so well to vulnerable and that's why I think it's so important to be vulnerable and honest in the writing also because they are so they suss out any kind of inauthenticity really quickly and I love writing for them for that reason,
(15:48):
if you can't take it with them,
right?
Well,
this is a good opportunity for us to segue into your most recent book then.
Um a Rover Story which is a book of my Heart and a book of so many people.
So,
I mean,
I've loved all your books,
Jasmine.
I mean,
I feel like each book just gets better and better,
(16:08):
but a Rover story was a sort of a departure,
a different book from your previous two.
And um for those readers or excuse me,
listeners who maybe haven't read the book yet.
First of all,
press pause,
go correct that error and then come back and listen to our conversation.
But would you be willing to give a short book,
(16:30):
talk of that book?
Just share a little bit about it before we start chatting about it?
Yeah,
certainly.
And thank you so much for,
for loving the book and connecting with the book.
So,
a rover story is about a Mars Rover named Resilience and it follows resilience from his first moment sense of consciousness and the jet propulsion laboratory at NASA all the way to his dangerous journey to Mars.
(16:54):
But it's really to me a book about difference because as resilience is learning about his mission in the lab,
he also starts to realize that he's learning and feeling human emotions and he wonders what this means and he begins to not only feel worse,
the worry that he has about how dangerous his mission is gonna be and all this pressure of wanting to do a really good job.
(17:17):
But he also worries that the fact that he's worried means that he's different,
that robots aren't supposed to have feelings.
And he worries that his difference means that there's a flaw in him and that flaw is going to make him unsuccessful at his mission and that he's going to disappoint everyone.
And so I think the book is about lots of different things.
It's about space exploration and adventure and what does it mean to be a friend?
(17:41):
And what does it mean to be brave.
But it's also about what does it mean to feel really big things and sometimes what does it mean to feel things that you can't quite describe or worry that you're feeling too many things.
And I was a really,
really sensitive kid and I'm still a really,
really sensitive adult and it's taken me a long time to accept that about myself and under understand that just because I'm feeling something more deeply than somebody else's doesn't mean that I'm flawed or there's something wrong with me and learning how to express that.
(18:11):
And um so I was really excited to me.
This is moreover,
story is kind of the book of my 10 year old 11 year old heart and that I loved science fiction and I loved adventure,
but I also loved books about feelings and especially like I said at the big getting books about difference and books about characters maybe feel a little bit different.
(18:31):
And so I think a Rover story is sort of both of those things and that's what I'm really interested in trying to do moving forward is how do I talk about those things,
but also put them in the framework of a story that has those sort of exciting adventure or genre elements that I loved so much as a kid.
(18:52):
I,
I feel like that's one of the magical things about a Rover story is that there,
it's got layers and layers of meaning on one level.
There are readers who will just connect to the adventure sci fi aspect of it.
And then there are some readers who are gonna connect to the story of the humans who are involved in resilience journey and the conflicts and traumas that they are going through.
(19:23):
And then there are some kids who are going to connect on another level as you say about this idea of feelings and what do they say about us and really how it's our feelings and our emotions that connect us and make us more alike really than different.
Even though at the age of,
(19:45):
you know,
at middle grade for your readers,
so many kids feel like they're,
they're the only one who's ever felt this way and no one else in the world could understand what they're going through.
And especially right now I feel like in,
I don't know,
I'm about 100 years older than you are jasmine.
But I,
you know,
I don't think either of us grew up in middle school or at that time with social media.
(20:07):
And so the pressure of not only trying to navigate your own feelings,
but in a world where it feels like everybody else's life is perfect for sure.
I say that social media is so damaging to my middle age strain,
right?
I'll turn it on and if it's a bad day,
I think,
oh my gosh,
everyone's more productive than me or everyone loves everyone's book so much more than they love mine.
(20:30):
Or everyone else is such a better mother than I am or everyone else is able to take care of their house in such a better way.
And I'm a grown adult who's,
who has gone through,
you know,
has been in therapy and has all these things and it still is so toxic for my brain.
And so I can't imagine being in middle school and having had social media.
(20:50):
And that makes my heart break for these kids of just I know my own feelings of inadequacy and difference would have been amplified times 10.
And that's why I really hope for kids that they're able to get that reprieve from books and sort of have their brain and hearts sort of nurtured um in this other way of knowing they aren't the only people who,
(21:16):
who have ever felt inadequate or alone or different.
And like you said,
I love what you said about that our emotions making us actually more alike than different.
And it took me so long to understand that.
Right.
I was so obsessed with what does it mean to fit in.
And it wasn't until I let myself be myself and feel all the things I was feeling that I realized,
(21:38):
oh,
this is connection because other people also feel these and it's all of that is so fundamentally true that it makes the times we're living in feel so upside down in so much as you know,
not only are we living in a time when more and more books are being removed from library shelves,
(21:59):
public and school libraries to limit kids access to the kinds of stories that help them understand the very things that we're talking about.
But also we're living in a time where middle grade lit in particular is really struggling to find its audience because sales of middle grade books are way down.
(22:20):
The big booksellers aren't supporting middle grade fiction in the same way that they used to.
And it all feels so like,
you know,
like you're,
I feel like sometimes I'm living in the emperor's new clothes and I'm the only one you can see that the dude is naked like you're like,
this just feels so contrary to reality.
I and I don't know exactly what to do about it.
(22:42):
And,
and I don't know that there's a question here so much jasmine other than,
hey,
do you know how to fix it?
But I,
I just wonder if you're feeling some of those same pressures.
I definitely am feeling that I think especially what you're saying about the landscape.
I also think though that I'm understanding better who my reader is when I go.
And because I've been doing lots of school visits and I'm responding to that and how I write Rover story was intentionally written with really short chapters and lots of white space.
(23:11):
And I think that we have to meet kids where they are.
And I understand that if you have a long school day,
you've spent time in this,
in an environment where you feel really stressed and really overwhelmed.
And you also have your device which is stealing a lot of your attention span,
it could be really intimidating to open a book and see just a lot of thick text.
(23:33):
And so um a Rover story and my new book that's coming out this fall were written with this idea that white space is sort of like a hug for the reader and these deep exhales and purposely trying to paste the book.
Also having the book have they're shorter books.
I mean,
a Rover story technically isn't kids always want to ask like how many pages,
(23:55):
but we understand right?
When a publisher puts together a book,
the amount of pages doesn't necessarily transfer to the word count,
which is what I'm talking about.
And both the word count of a Rover story and a strange thing happened in Cherry Hall are shorter than the word count of my previous middle grade novels.
Because I'm also thinking about how can I tell a story that's going to be best suited to my readers today.
(24:20):
And I also think back to the middle grade books I read as a middle grader,
I think they were also shorter.
I think we had this moment where middle grade really ballooned into being.
And a lot of the books were super fantastic.
This isn't saying anything negative about those books.
I've also written longer books,
you know,
we were all in this moment.
(24:40):
And I think now realizing,
ok,
we what,
what does our reader really need and how can I tell the story in a way to best,
welcome them into the story and make the story feel like an invitation for them?
Um And then kind of go from there.
But I guess that is what I've been thinking about and I'm with you that I think there's so many different pieces to this,
(25:03):
but that's the one I feel like I at least have some control over,
which is how do I write my book and how do I try to make my book as welcoming as possible to the middle grade reader of today?
Given everything our kids are face.
Well,
this is such a good opportunity for us to transition into a strange thing happened at Cherry Hall.
(25:24):
But before we do that,
I just want to say,
I feel like I want a T shirt or a tattoo or something that says white space on the page is a hug to the reader um or an exhale.
I love that description.
And I think there you're exactly right.
There are a place and there are readers for really long,
(25:45):
you know,
um maybe description driven middle grade text.
There are readers for those books and there are some of those books that will that are books of my heart for sure.
I think I like all things.
It's about finding a balance,
you know,
having that pendulum swing back just a little bit for those readers who,
like you say,
(26:06):
that particular summit feels intimidating to reach for sure.
And so now when I'm writing,
I think about it,
then maybe I'll have three descriptions and I challenge myself.
How can I use language in the best,
like economical way here.
How can I merge this into the best possible description so I can get the most thing for my buck and that I do,
(26:26):
I am a descriptive writer.
I want to paint that really vivid picture for the reader.
Well,
also having the story move at a piece that hopefully is going to feel welcoming to them and correct and that's all a calibration,
right?
You know,
and,
and my book is gonna hopefully work for some readers and it's definitely not gonna work for other readers.
(26:47):
And I think that's what's great too about book choice that we're gonna have a,
a wide gamut of,
of different styles.
But I'm definitely recently as a reader who has been struggling since the pandemic myself to be able to fall into books and responding to that,
that I respond better to books with lots of whitespace and even books that have more visual illustrations in them and things like that are really helpful for my own brain and sort of trying to see if maybe that's the same for some of my readers.
(27:17):
Well,
I want you to tell us a little bit about this new book.
I'm currently trying to bribe um Everyone I know who can get me a copy of the Arc.
Uh So expect your envelope of cash soon.
But uh I'm anxious to hear about it and I,
when I post the show notes for this episode,
(27:37):
I'll include an image of the cover which I think is so gorgeous and also provocative in the way that it makes,
it makes me want to know more about the book.
So tell me a little bit about what we can expect.
Oh,
awesome.
Well,
yeah,
I love the cover and I'm so grateful to the design team and the illustrator Matt Rockefeller who also did the cover for a rover story,
(28:02):
who's who did the cover for a strange thing um that happened in Cherry Hall and it's exactly the vibe that I wanted.
And so the book um in a nutshell takes place or it centers around um this art museum.
And at the art museum,
the book opens in a moment in time where a painting has been stolen from the art museum.
(28:23):
But the painting that's been stolen is not a particularly famous painting.
It's a painting that hung in a that corner and was really small.
No one really thought about this painting until it went missing.
And now everyone is so curious why would someone go to all the trouble to break into this art museum to steal this one singular painting that no one really knows that much about that was done by a pretty mysterious aloof artist.
(28:47):
And the painting is of a girl who no one knows who the girl in the painting is.
And when our book opens,
our main character,
Rami is visiting the art museum and he sees a girl in the hallway who looks exactly like the girl who's depicted in the painting that went missing.
And he slowly comes to realize that most everyone else can't see her.
(29:09):
And he's trying to figure out who is she and is she a ghost.
And so we follow Rami on this journey and adventure.
But then there's also a couple of other narrators,
which is sort of harkening back to some books of my heart like Holes and Westing Game where we have different perspectives that sort of come together.
And so there's a mystery narrator perspective,
(29:31):
uh who you start to figure out who that is as the book goes on.
And then there's also the narration from my favorite character in the book,
who is Agatha and Agatha is the turtle that lives in the garden behind the art museum.
And Agatha knows who stole the painting,
but she can't quite get the humans in the book uh to pay attention to the clues that she is trying to leave.
(29:53):
Um And so to me the book is a book about,
it's a book about loneliness,
but it's a book about how art can make us feel seen and how art can help us connect.
And what does it mean to be represented in a piece of art?
And why does that make us feel seen?
And what does it mean to feel invisible and then how that can change when somebody really sees us?
(30:17):
And so it's my first mystery and I'm really excited about that because I loved mysteries,
um,
as a kid,
and I actually got the idea to want to write a mystery novel from doing school visits.
And we,
this is so relevant to the conversation we were having earlier about meeting our readers where they are.
I kept getting asked over and over again.
(30:37):
Are you going to write a mystery?
And I thought that was so strange,
like why of all genres,
our kids asking for that.
But then I started thinking about the appeal of mystery and why I loved mysteries as a kid.
And I think I loved mysteries because I felt like I was a mystery.
I felt like the world didn't understand a lot about me.
(30:58):
But I also felt like there was a lot about the world that I didn't understand.
And so I kind of came to this book by backing in just sort of thinking about the idea of a mystery and why mysteries are appealing.
So it's kind of a book that's sort of a love letter to mysteries um in a way.
So I'm really excited about it.
It I'm hoping will be a super fun mystery for kids to read while also having a lot of those layers we talked about,
(31:26):
of being about connection and loneliness and particularly the way that I think art um can help us to connect jasmine.
That sounds incredible.
I am so excited for this book.
You must be so excited too.
Yeah,
I'm,
I'm super,
super excited for it to be out in September,
(31:47):
but also of course,
nervous.
This is the part in the process where I'm mostly finished with the book and then you're sitting and waiting in anticipation to see.
Are other people gonna get it?
Are people gonna connect with it?
Um Are people gonna love Agatha the way that I love Agatha?
And,
and uh so you're kind of in that weeding uh period which um but yeah,
(32:07):
I can't wait for September and to introduce all these characters uh to readers.
Well,
I don't know how anyone couldn't love a clue dropping turtle.
I mean,
I know it,
it only what you've just said about Agatha and I'm already in love with her.
So I don't know how that could even exist.
And if people don't,
I don't wanna know them,
(32:28):
but I also just wanna say,
you know,
as you were talking about mysteries,
it that rings so true to me.
I,
when I was a middle school librarian.
Kids would constantly asked me for mysteries.
And I remember feeling so frustrated because most of the books I would have to recommend the kids were so much older because there's not a lot of contemporary mysteries for that age group.
(32:53):
You either you have mysteries for kids that are much older,
you know,
like young adults or for adults that the mystery genre is huge for adult readers.
But for middle grade,
there just isn't a lot.
And I remember a kid saying to me when I asked him one time about why he liked mystery so much.
And he said it makes my brain work in a different way.
(33:14):
And I love that you have listened to your own readers and tackled this for your next book.
It sounds amazing.
Thank you.
Yeah,
I'm so excited about it and it's,
uh made me fall in love with mysteries all over again because I was reading so many mysteries while trying to put together the puzzle piece of this one.
(33:35):
Oh,
well,
I can't wait and that'll be September.
So we all have to add that to our preorder list with that said,
I know that your focus right now is getting this book into the world.
But is there anything you can tell us about what's coming after that or is it all top secret at this point?
It's kind of top secret at this point.
But there will be,
it will be two more middle grade novels.
(33:57):
So,
um,
and I'm hoping in maybe a few months I'll be able to talk about that more.
Um,
but I have a couple of different ideas,
uh,
that I'm playing around with and I'm really excited to see sort of where they go.
But the thing for me about books is that I never really know if an idea is going to take flight until I'm really fully into the book.
(34:19):
Um And so I sort of have to keep it as my own private thing until it,
it fully comes alive because you don't wanna sort of make it fly before it's ready to,
if that makes sense.
Sure.
Sure.
All I need to know is that you're,
you've got books on the way because we really need them.
(34:39):
Thank you so much,
not just for the time you've given us today,
but for the work you're doing,
I feel like it's so important in 2024 and I'm so grateful for all the readers hearts that you touched through your stories.
Well,
thank you and same to you.
Thank you so much for having me on here and it makes me so happy to know you're curating these discussions because I feel like we're just in a moment in time where it can be easy to feel a lot of despair around just the climate that we're in.
(35:06):
And so remembering,
um how much joy there can be in doing what all of us do too is a really nice uh thing.
And I'm gonna carry that into the rest of my week.
(35:28):
That's it for another episode of the reader's heart.
Thank you so much for joining us this week.
For more information about this episode,
including ways to connect with Jasmine as well as a discount code for purchasing her books through book alicious Check out Library girl.net.
This podcast was created written and recorded by me Jennifer Lagarde.
All rights reserved.
Our theme music was created by Comma media and is available for free at Pixar Royalty Free Music Repository.
(35:54):
And the beautiful illustration for our show was created by Karina Lukin.
If you enjoyed this podcast,
gosh,
I hope you'll leave us a five star review wherever you listened and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
Believe it or not,
this small step makes a big difference in helping the reader heart find its audience.
Thank you again for listening.
We'll see you next time and until then happy reading y'all.
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.