EP 13 | From Jail Floors to God’s Grace | The Orthodox Spirit x The Salt Podcast - The Salt Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Today is a little bit of a different episode.
This was Georgio's idea from thestart.
I wanted to evangelise. We're all.
Struggling in our lives, no matter what the struggle.
Is everything has become more difficult with someone at
gunpoint? Can't please God and the world.
Someone in Saudi Arabia, I was involved in witchcraft.
I don't know what to do. The most important thing is we
don't lose sight or touch of thereason of why we started.

(00:20):
George Danko played a big role in this.
One of the most genuine guys. He is such a good man.
Sometimes, I'll be honest, I talk to God in the car alone.
Like rubbish content that's online, all the filth that's
online, your spiritual life takes a little bit of a backseat
when it shouldn't. What's the weight of our
problems? Minute compared to everything
else? A. 100% we need to have these
conversations. The closer you're getting to
God, the more you're getting attacked.

(00:41):
Then you you handle that world. And everlasting hamster wheel
that I just think I'm going to try and be successful.
Try and be this. Try and be there.
If they have the wrong frame of mind, they might give up.
They say it's too hard. God will never, ever turn you
away. The devil tries to stop him from
even approaching the steps of the church.
Don't focus on them, focus on Christ.
It's never a loss in life. It's only a lesson.

(01:04):
This is the Salt podcast. The Salt Podcast.
Let's pick up the Bible. Let's read.
Let's pray. Because that's what Jesus called
me to do. The Lord makes you that salt of
the earth. We need Christians to share the
truth. Preserve the world for Christ.
May this podcast be a beacon of light, this is.
The Salt Podcast. Welcome to the Salt Podcast.

(01:27):
My name is Simon Thomas Guilton.Joining me today, as always, is
my heads of Co host Georgia Scandal.
Today is a little bit of a different episode.
Usually we are the ones interviewing people.
However, we are very lucky and blessed to be able to have Mike
Mack from the Orthodox Spirit Podcast, who we're delighted to
have interview us in order to find out how the whole Salt

(01:50):
Podcast podcast. Began well.
American accent clicked in there.
Claiming at the end. So, Mike, welcome guys to a new
episode of Orthodox Spirit. I'm here with George and Simon
from the Salt Podcast. We're doing a collab episode
this week, so it should be a pleasure.
Thanks Mike, very lovely to meetyou and to have this experience

(02:10):
with you. Thanks, Mike.
Mackey likewise, I'm I'm glad you guys had some time to to do
this. I think it's really, it's really
cool and it's really important that we can kind of reach out to
other Orthodox or Christian faith or Christian based
podcasts. Yeah, I, I see it as something
that's growing and something that's like starting to become

(02:34):
more of an interest for a lot ofpeople.
I wanted to maybe get started with kind of getting a
background on like what got you guys started doing the podcast?
Sure. Before we get into that, I just
want to say that, you know, it's3:00 AM your time and it's 8:00
PM our time. So you definitely got the short
end of the stick. So I really appreciate comparing
to our time schedule, but I'll let Simon maybe tell the story

(02:57):
because he's a good storyteller.So you want to know the
background of how the podcast started?
Well, you're going. To hear a.
Story from me throughout this whole podcast than you will from
George. So I will I will start I will
preface by saying this was George's ID from the start.
He always, because everyone's obviously on social media, so he
always wanted to be able to havesome sort of good content on

(03:22):
social media because he he realised that not everyone's
gonna be on their phones, but ifwe at least put some good stuff
out there, then that's what matters.
So what happened was he approached me and he said I'd
like to do a podcast, just a short, short form content where
we interview priests and then wego from there.
And I was very, very reluctant due to my work and my outside

(03:43):
life. I didn't think I'd have enough
time to be able to put the effort that he wanted me to.
This was in February of this year, so about six months ago,
I'd say. So he kept being very persistent
and that's one thing we're goingto keep getting back to on this
podcast. George is extremely persistent,
the one of the most persistent people you ever meet.
So after you heard about 50 notes from me, he finally on the

(04:05):
51st attempt got a yes. And so we interviewed Father
Yaob. He is a priest in Sydney,
Australia. He heads Saint Mark's, Saint
Mark's Church. So we interviewed him.
That was about a 2/2 hour podcast I'd say.
And the first episode we were very, I'll speak for myself.

(04:26):
I was very tense, didn't know sort of what was going to
happen. But ever since then, I'd say God
has blessed us dramatically. We've got, and I'd say very
lucky through hard work. And George definitely steered
the ship in the right direction.So George, do you have any input
about that? Yeah, I think he summarized it
quite well. For me.

(04:47):
It was the, the the root cause was I wanted to evangelize.
And you know, I'm, I'm a bit, I'm an outgoing guy, but I'm not
outgoing enough to just start talking to people in the street
and say, Hey, you know, do you love Jesus?
Or like people nowadays, they're, they're on planes and
they just like get up in the middle of the plane while it's
in the air. And there's like, Hey, guys,
just want your attention. Jesus loves you.

(05:07):
I like, I can't do that. And I just started getting
really convicted. And I felt in my heart like, you
know, when I die one day is what's God going to say to me?
He's going to say, did you, did you talk about me?
Did you preach to me? And in general, I do preach to
like people that already know, like Simon, me and him have gone
back and forth about Christianity a lot.
And like in, in, in general, because of the age gap, like

(05:29):
during his form years, he was a bit of a troublemaker.
So I had to step in a little bitand, and, and, and kind of guide
him a little bit, as much as I could in, in a humble way, of
course. But with that said, like I, I'm
always good at talking about Jesus and God and Christianity
with people that already believe, but I don't really have
much of an Ave. to talk to people that don't.

(05:50):
So that was maybe the most driving factor was like, OK,
let's do a podcast or and I started to listen to a lot more
podcasts. So that also inspired me.
I said, Hey, maybe I can do that.
And the whole point actually, George Danko played a big role
in this because I saw his podcast shifting and talking
more about Christ and the way hedid it.
I really appreciate it. Really like that he was coming

(06:12):
from a learning point of view. And you know, I thought, if he
can do that, what like surely I can do that too.
It's the least I can do. I can try.
So that was the main thing, wanting to evangelize and then
wanting to, to kind of get a wayto reach not just Coptic or
Orthodox people, not just Orthodox people, not just
Christian people, but people that may be lost or in despair,

(06:33):
scrolling through social media aimlessly.
And, and then they find, for example, you know, 1 snippet
that has hope. And, you know, thank God, we've
had a whole bunch of snippets that have gone quite viral and
had millions of views and comments.
And you know, that's the whole point, the reach.
It's just, it's just, it's, it'sreally heartwarming to see that

(06:56):
the context's getting somewhere.Right.
Yeah, No, that's that's amazing.Has that always been something
that interested you, or was thissomething new when it comes to
not necessarily evangelizing, but talking to people about God?
Yeah, I mean, I've always done it growing up, as you know, even
going through school, I'd alwaystalk to my my friends.

(07:18):
Like if I had friends from otherfaiths or if I had even just
Protestant friends, I'd always be in theological discussions
with them, trying to get them tosave the light, as I used to
think naively back then. But that was my point of view.
I was like, no, they have to know that, you know, it's the
body and blood. And even I would have
conversations with my Christian studies teachers, like during

(07:38):
lunch and recess just to talk tothem about how I think that
they're wrong. Yeah, no, but it was good.
They were actually really good conversations.
And actually, I think one of my pastors, I, I ended up getting
him to actually believe that it was body and blood, which I
thought was a like I was in maybe year 8.
And he, he was a pastor and I, I, I eventually got him to the

(08:02):
point of accepting that it has to be body and blood of Christ.
So I always like talking about God.
It's always an interesting topic, but I just never knew how
or what to do with his passion. And I think the podcast was a
great Ave. And of course, when I decided to
do the podcast, I didn't want todo it alone.
You know, the, the Bible's very big on, you know, doing things

(08:23):
two by two and having someone. So if you fall, we have someone
else to carry you. So that was a big part.
I needed to find a really suitable partner.
And thank God I have Simon, who's a handsome, funny,
outgoing guy and I thought he would add the right flavour to
the podcast. And I think, thank God, that was
one of the best decisions that Imade.
I know you guys seem like a goodteam man.

(08:43):
Yeah, we, we were, we, we've been very close long before this
podcast. George and I have known each
other for, I'd say now going on 8-9 years now, almost 10.
Yeah, almost 10 since I was, since I was a young kid.
We've always been close. And like he said earlier, just
exaggerating a little bit. He always sort of kept me in
line when I was younger because it's important to have that sort

(09:04):
of role model where you look up.I don't want to say look up to,
but you can. Just say up to.
Him a little bit and he's definitely some God sends people
in your life for certain reasonsand I can tell you George's
George has been sent by God for a good reason.
So let's thank God. Simon, thank you.
You're like a son, too. It's a huge blessing, man.
That's, that's, it's, it's not, it's not every day that you find

(09:26):
somebody to do something like this with, you know.
Do you guys have like a big Coptic community in Australia?
Yeah, definitely a really big one.
Actually, we. Come from 1:00.
Of the biggest churches, Saint Mark's Church is huge.
I mean on a Sunday I think they have like almost maybe 7 or 8
liturgies running at once. They have like a kids liturgy, a
high school liturgy, Arabic one,an early one, English one.

(09:51):
I think there's maybe what, 5 or10,000 families maybe definitely
in Saint Mark's. Church so.
That's a big church and then literally 5 minutes down the
road is another one, Saint Mary's, which is another big
congregation. So I think Sydney, we're blessed
we have a big community here. And then aside from the
churches, is there like monasteries as well?

(10:11):
I'm not too familiar with with the area, so I'm coming at it
from a completely blank slate, no.
That's fine. Yeah.
There there is there is a beautiful monastery here, Saint
Snauder's Monastery. I've I've been out there a few
times. It is.
It's it's filled with amazing, amazing people and the monks
there. If you ever get a chance to

(10:32):
visit here, you should definitely say that it's a
blessing. Yeah, God willing, you know,
I'll make it out there one day, man.
But how have you, how have you seen the podcast not only impact
the the people that view your stuff online, but also view or
impact your own personal life like since you guys started?

(10:54):
Very good question, George. Well, OK, first part, definitely
seen a wide range of people through interacting with with
us. Like, a lot of our viewers have
reached out to us on a number oflevels, whether it's, for
example, somebody reaching out because they really were touched
by one of our guests and they want to get a hold of them.

(11:14):
And like, one example is that that comes to my mind is there
was a family in Armenia that wasgoing through quite a hard time.
I think their mum was sick with cancer.
And the one thing that got them through it was Bishop Mara
Murray's sermons. They, they as a family, they'd
sit together and they'd listen to him.
And they said that that was likea rock.
So they reached out to us and said, you know, is there any

(11:38):
way? It's my sister's birthday.
We've had a really rough year. Is there any way we can get
Bishop Mara Murray to call her? I was like, OK, that's.
A Bishop. Murray is, is, is, is.
I mean, it was hard for us to get a hold of him, to be honest.
But I said, you know what, let me, I'm gonna try.
So I tried to coordinate it. And Bishop Murray, honestly one
of the most genuine guys. He is such a good man.

(11:58):
Like he said, of course, don't worry, let me call them.
And he called the sister. He said, OK, when when's her
birthday? Let me call her.
And then the girl sent me a clipof when he called the girl and
she was in tears, crying, so moved by that love.
So yeah, that was that. That's an example of like just

(12:19):
an interaction we've had. We've had other interactions
where people have reached out for guidance in terms of, you
know, not knowing which church to attend to people that, for
example, someone in Saudi Arabiawho is actually African and she
was involved in witchcraft. And then she reached out to us

(12:40):
and said, you know, I'm, I'm, I was involved in witchcraft.
I don't know what to do. I get nightmares.
My kids get nightmares. So then I coordinated with the
priest and got the advice, whichis, I've learned a whole bunch
of stuff, like in terms of what they need to do, how to get out
of that stuff. And I relayed that advice to
her. And we translated, like the
Psalms that he asked to read into her native language.

(13:02):
So yeah, it's just a wide range from just like, really cute
stuff, like, can the guests callme on my birthday to like, hey,
I was involved in witchcraft, can you help me?
So that's definitely a wide range of interaction with our
viewers in terms of our life. I'll let Simon answer.
In, in terms of in terms of our personal lives, I've always like
speaking for myself now. I've always struggled to find a

(13:25):
service within the church because I know it's important,
especially when you reach your 20s and George's case your 30s.
You have to point that out to you.
You're waiting. You're burning.
It's very important to have a service that you're committed
to. That way you don't stray too far
away. And I just always, I struggled
with the concept of finding a service that I would fall in
love with. So God obviously sent George in

(13:48):
my path to offer the podcast. But with the podcast, I always,
I always had one goal in mind, like George said, which is if
just one person can come a little bit closer to God through
the content, then we've, we're doing our job as best as we can.
It's not for anything else but the glory of God.
And like I, I come from a big family.

(14:08):
I've got four brothers and we like, we try to go to church as
much as possible, but to hear like, for example, my brothers
or my mother talk about the podcast or talk to her friends
about like the things that go onfor me, it's a, it just, it's a
very, it's a heart warming thingfor me because we, we're coming
together for the glory of God. Do you know what I mean?

(14:29):
We're just, we're just small tools in his hand.
And that's probably one of the best feelings that you can have.
Like sometimes I sit down with my mom and like her friends will
call her about the podcast and I'm around and I don't know what
to do. I just start smiling or I just
go upstairs. So it's, it's definitely
impacted and even people that you see in church, they, they

(14:50):
may not know you, but they'll know you as maybe someone who's
spoken to this priest and that what they've learnt from that
priest. So like I said, anything where
we're just able to give glory toGod that that's more gain than
we'll ever need in our life. So yeah.
Yeah, I think and and and go ahead.
I'm sorry. I was going to say on that point

(15:11):
the other way, it's kind of impacted our life.
It it, it's kind of we find a lot of challenge, like ever
since we started the podcast, this is something that we keep
finding. Everything's become more
difficult. Like, you know, every time we
have an episode, like every things will go wrong or
obstacles will come in our way. Even just from our second
episode, we will meant to. If you saw our episode with

(15:32):
Father Bishoy, literally the night before, he, he was like on
the news getting with, with someone at gunpoint, knocking on
his door and trying to break into his room.
And that was we found that out like at 11:00 PM the night
before. We were going to fly to
Queensland to interview him. We had a like a 6:00 AM flight
and and then we got there and then we had a very small window

(15:52):
of time that we booked the studio and then we gave him a
location and he went to a a different.
Location to a different. Cafe that Apparently there's a
franchise. There's a different.
Location and then we had to go find him in the streets and
bring him. You can't make this up.
I promise you cannot. Make this up.
It's just stuff we we realize that there's been a lot of
challenges and we know that God's trying, not God.
Sorry, the devil is trying to stop our work for sure.

(16:14):
We can feel that. Right.
Yeah, it seems like that's, that's a common thing that
happens when you start to put out content like this and, and
like how, how important is it toyou that there is content like
this online and not just meaningless, you know, scrolling
on tons of other things that youcould be doing.

(16:37):
Definitely one of our biggest motivations was to do that
because I think like having kids, I have kids myself and I
don't know what the world's going to look like for them when
they grow up with all the like rubbish content that's online,
all the filth that's online, Youcan't scroll, you know, 3
scrolls without seeing somethingobscene.
So I think the more we can push really wholesome content and the

(17:02):
more, I mean, This is why I always tell Simon, we have to
get people to subscribe and to like and to comment because
that's what circulates. Like we have to use technology
to advantage, right? So the more people that support
us and, and like and comment, subscribe, it picks up in the
algorithm, it circulates more, more eyes are going to see it,
which is me and Simon get caughtup in this because we kind of

(17:24):
get stuck looking at the numbers.
And if something doesn't do well, we get a bit annoyed.
But then we say, well, you know,stay on track, don't get
distracted. But it's the, the mission is to
spread it to millions of people.That's the mission.
And we're kind of perfectionist in that way.
Or we always set high targets. So I want to, if we got a clip
that got a million, I'm like, why isn't it on 2 million?
Like let's reach as many people as possible.

(17:47):
And that's the idea. Like, we don't want to really
give up, you know, the fight against technology and let
technology be a bad thing. We want to use technology for,
you know, to propagate God's word.
And why? Because it's not going anywhere,
right? Like, I mean, we're, we're going
to, we're going to have to use it one way or another.
So I mean, it's, it's only rightthat you put out the, the stuff

(18:10):
that you want people to benefit from.
I mean, even even with ours, like when, when we started, I
didn't know why or I didn't knowwhat to do really.
I didn't, I didn't, I even told Father Lazarus, like I, I don't
think I'm the right person to bedoing this, you know, like I, I
felt a lot out of place and, and, and the more and more I did
it and the responses I got and seeing that people were actually

(18:34):
genuinely benefiting from it, it's crazy, You know, it's,
it's, it's honestly amazing. And I think there's in recent
years, there's been more of a like more of a demand, more of
a, and at least in the next generation, the younger
generation, more of more of a want to have that type of

(18:56):
content. It's like they're, they're more
intrigued when it comes to God. They're more yeah, they're just
more interested for some reason.And and I, I asked this a lot to
a lot of the, the people I interview.
But what, why do you think that that is?
You know, why do you think that all of a sudden you see this
like increase of curiosity in God and and and like them moving

(19:21):
in that direction? What do you think?
Well, I think, I think as I'll, I'll speak for myself.
I think as humans, we all struggle day-to-day and this,
like you said, technology isn't going to go away at any point,
Mike. So what, what's happening now is
we're trying to use what technology can offer, which is
just, it's just going to constantly take our time.

(19:42):
We're trying to use that for thebetterment.
I, I speak for myself when I'm, when I'm having a bad day, I'm
not going to, unfortunately, I'mnot going to open my Bible
straight away as a tool to go and learn about God.
I may be on my phone. So if I'm scrolling and I'm able
to see, for example, a clip of your, a clip of your podcast,
the Orthodox Spirit or Bishop Mara Murray speaking and just

(20:05):
hearing someone talk about theirlove for God and what God's done
for them in their life. It's very, very.
It's very reassuring. It brings you back, it brings
you back on track. So I think with everyone, we're
all struggling in our lives. No matter what the struggle is,
there is definitely struggle. And just being able to have that
curiosity to want to know God ona deeper level, whether it's

(20:29):
through technology, whether it'sthrough going to church or
whatever Ave. you want to go to,as long as that curiosity is
there, that'll always be a good thing.
And the content that you put outor that the Salt Podcast puts
out, if that, that can, if that can help steer someone in their
relationship towards God being alittle bit closer, then I'd say
we are doing our job. And we should also be taking

(20:51):
notes in order to not just put out the content, but truly learn
from what's being said by our guests and and by the people
that we we hear from a lot. Yeah, couldn't agree more.
And I think also the reason why a lot of youth are searching for
something more or more curious is because there's a lot of
darkness in the world. And I think when you when you
experience that darkness, you kind of need light to overcome

(21:14):
it. So that's where people are
searching for the light. And I think actually this kind
of content, especially short form because everyone's now
trained to have attention span of 6 seconds.
So if you. Can seconds or less, yeah.
So if you can put out something that rather than makes them feel
worse, like like when they're scrolling and they see an image,
maybe me, like I'll be scrollingand I see a guy that's jacked

(21:37):
and ripped and I'll be like, I'mnot like that, you know, I feel
bad, you know, there's a lot of content, so.
No, you are like you are. You know what?
Simon will be scrolling and he'll see someone with a full
head of hair and he'll be like, oh, you know what I mean?
Same. Thing, that's where we're going
with it, OK. You know what I mean?
So like, you know, rather than having those negative things
like when, when you're scrollingthrough and you actually see

(21:58):
something that uplifts you and makes you feel, you know, makes
you feel better or warmer inside, then I guess that's,
that sparks that curiosity. And that's why the the, the
younger generation like, hey, this actually gives me a feeling
that's different from all, all the other crap that I see.
So. Right.
Yeah, I did. And especially nowadays, if
it's, it's starting to feel likewe're kinda in end times in a

(22:24):
way. I don't know how to put my
finger on it exactly. But you get that like feeling,
you know, and then it's it's more of like an urgency to to
run to the right side, you know what I mean?
Because, yeah, you see the worldand it's kind of like, in a way,
falling apart. There's, there's a lot of things
that are that are not the way they should be.

(22:46):
There's, like you said, a lot ofdarkness.
And I think like podcasts like yours are kind of a breath of
fresh air. You know, it, it's, it's
honestly very, very comforting that to see that there's a lot
of people in the younger generation kind of flocking in
that direction. It gives me hope.
It definitely, yeah. It gives me the sense of relief

(23:08):
that maybe it's not so bad, you know, when it comes to doing
these interviews and stuff. Are these all things that kind
of you when you're deal dealing with or interviewing certain
guests, are you, are you speaking and asking questions
from things going on in your ownpersonal experience or is this

(23:30):
something that is just based offof like what they usually talk
about? I think from the very beginning
we wanted to be a bit unique without questions like depending
on the guest. Excuse me?
We'd kind of change our format. So for example, Father Jacob,
one of like the senior priest ata very big church, no one really

(23:50):
knows much about, He doesn't speak about himself.
So the idea with him was, hey, let's show people a different
side of him. Where did he grow up?
What's his family like? What spiritual challenges did he
face growing up? So when we had someone like
that, we asked the questions that we were just curious
because no one's ever asked him.When we have someone like Bishop
Mara Murray, the the shift changes because he's like a

(24:10):
polarizing figure that a lot of people look to that's a global.
So we need to be a bit broader and say, OK, what would people
if if the general population wassitting in front of him, what
they what do they want to hear from him?
You know? So it just really depends on the
guest. And like, I'm like, like we
said, we always plan big. So I already have a list of
people that, you know, one day hopefully I'm going to reach.

(24:33):
And I already have a list of questions ready for those
specific people. So, you know, like someone like
Candace Owens or someone like George Jenko or someone like
Jordan Peterson, You know, theseare names that I'd love to sit
across from and talk to. So I already have questions
lined up for these people based on, you know, what I think would
be really interesting to ask them that other people haven't
asked and, you know, good conversations like that.

(24:58):
Yeah, absolutely. And and you guys seem like from
at least from somebody from the outside looking in, it seems
like you guys have always had a very good relationship with the
Church, if I'm not mistaken. That's, that's what it it, it
seems like you know, and your guys's knowledge on
Christianity, especially Orthodoxy is, is, is, yeah,

(25:19):
pretty good man. Like I, I, I'm coming from
somewhere that, like I said, I kind of drifted off and circled
back. So yeah, I didn't have all of
the knowledge going in, but you guys seem like you've always
been like kind of tightly knit into the, like, Christian
community. What?
Is, is, is that how it's been since you guys were younger?

(25:41):
Well, for me, like I've grown upin the church, definitely my
parents have instilled that they're very blessed to have
very great parents that, you know, made me fall in love with
the church at a young age. I was always like, I think my
parents used to punish me by telling me, you know, you're not
going to church on Saturday for the holy solemnity.
Like, that was a punishment. And I'd be so upset.
So if I did something wrong at school, they'll be like, all

(26:02):
right, you're not going to church.
And that they knew that they felt bad punishing me like that.
But it's because I loved it so much.
So I was very blessed to always love like, the church and the
hymnology. And you know, I would say when I
was younger, I actually read a lot more than I do now.
Being really busy with like you just realize with life, when you
have, you know, a family and kids and work, your spiritual

(26:25):
life takes a little bit of a backseat when it shouldn't.
It should really be front and center, but it unfortunately it
does when you're so busy. And that was another reason why
I started the podcast, because Ithought, you know what, let me
have a project that will force me to be more on top of my
spiritual life, more on top of like, spiritual topics.
Because if I didn't have that motivation, oh, I have a guest.
I need AI, need a read. I need a look up.

(26:47):
I need to, you know, pray about it.
Like, if that encourages me to kind of include God more in our
life. So, yeah, I don't even know what
I'm talking about now. That was the question.
No, you're OK, man. And, and it seems like I kind of
piggybacking off of your point, when, when you do do something
like this, you kind of are at least again, speaking from my

(27:10):
experience doing it so far, you're kind of a representation
of Christianity. So you have to conduct yourself
a certain way. And there's certain things that
you kind of think about a bit more now since you, you know,
you have been, have you, have you seen like that's been.
Yeah, the same thing in your life since you began, Simon.
What do you think? Not to, not to make you sound

(27:33):
wrong, Mark, from the last question, but I wasn't one of
those people that was like, likeI grew up my whole life in the
church. Don't get me wrong, my family
done a very good job in instilling that in me.
But as some people get old up and they leave school, for
example, there's always a choicethat gets made whether or not
they want to stay in that churchlife or they want to sort of

(27:55):
quote, UN quote, experience the real world, which I don't
necessarily agree with. But when I was younger, I sort
of was definitely facing in thatopposition of the two.
So I wish I had a very similar upbringing to George to where I
was upset if my mom told me I'm not allowed to go to church.
But I definitely tried my best to cling to God.
But that note, I feel like who you surround yourself with in

(28:17):
your life is one of the most important things.
Because if you, if you stay withthose people who, who are raised
in the church, then you, you don't feel the need to want to
experience the fun of the outside world, so to speak, the,
the going out, whatever the casemay be.
But if you cling to the other side and you say, oh, they're
just my friends and I'm going totry and bring them closer to

(28:39):
church, There's there's a very, very important, it's a very
important saying that strength in numbers, one person can't,
can't do the job of 10 people. So I think when I was young, I
always tried to get the best of both worlds.
And it's very hard because Bishop Mara Murray said himself,
he said you can't please God andthe world, you can't do both.
So I think when I was when I gotolder, I definitely understood

(29:04):
the value and importance of the church and of seeking continual
relationship with God because without God, I don't know how
else to describe it other than it's, it's like a black hole in
your heart. You don't, you don't feel
anything at any point in time, whether it's your highs or your
lows. You're just, you're just sort of
going through the motion. But when you have God and and

(29:28):
when you're trying to have a relationship with God all the
time, there's a peace that you get filled with and that's only
from that's only from God. And with that peace brings other
beautiful things like you get toit's you think less you, you
stress, you stress less. All these things come with it.
When you understand that when God's in control, as our our

(29:48):
previous guests have said, when God's in control, there's not,
there's not too much to worry about.
South, on that second point of your on that second point of
your question, do you feel as after the podcast, you've had to
sort of reshape your life? Absolutely.
Because it's very hard to sort of preach one thing and then do
the opposite. And I'm not a perfect person.

(30:09):
Neither is George. I speak for yourself.
Oh. Sorry, he's got.
Here I forgot George, we we definitely we definitely try and
do good as I'm sure you do and the devil will always find a way
to attack us. But if we just stay the course
and no matter how how many timesyou fall, if you keep falling,
just remember to always get backup.

(30:30):
Don't fall in that state of despair where you feel as though
you you're, you're worthless or the the sin that the sin
repercussion is too hard for youto get up from because it's
never too late. So long as you confess and
repent before God and a spiritual father, then you'll be
all right. Yeah.
No, I can. I can.
Definitely write, but man, I struggle, I struggle constantly,

(30:53):
dude, I I struggle constantly and constantly fun.
I even told a lot of the, the priests I interviewed before,
like these are kind of just likemini therapy sessions for me.
You know, like more than anything like that's been,
that's been my experience within.
And to, to talk about your pointabout like you not growing up
necessarily like in the church for a part of your life.

(31:14):
I, I do, I do know that that's not ideal, but I, again, at
least in my own experience, there are pros to having
experienced that there because you, you do, you can relate to a
lot of people that wouldn't be relatable if you didn't go
through that, you know, And there's a lot of people like I

(31:36):
talked to nowadays where I, I can, I, I understand them a lot
more, you know, because, becauseI did go through that phase.
So I, I do think like it's, it'snot, I, like I said, not ideal,
but there are, there are pros to, to being able to relate to
people outside of the church, you know, and being able to have

(31:56):
those conversations that might not necessarily be received in,
in the, the best of ways from somebody that's maybe never
stepped outside of the church. You know what I mean?
Not that, like I said, it's not ideal, but it it, it's, it's
definitely in that you're a place where you're able to, to
have certain conversations that wouldn't have been had if you

(32:18):
didn't experience that. Yeah, I think what's.
Beautiful about our God is that even he can use everyone, you
know, and as we seen the Bible alot, even the people that had
the biggest weaknesses or that were clearly sinners, God can
use. And definitely I've seen that in
my own service. Like I try and help people that
are, you know, some kids that have kind of lost their way or

(32:40):
going down the track. And it's hard for me to relate
if I haven't partaken in that those kind of activities, like
if I never, I was never much of A partier.
So me telling them, Hey, don't party, they don't really, it
doesn't really vibe with them orconnect with them because
they're like, Oh, but you, you don't know, you know, or you
don't drink. So you don't know, you know,
definitely. I, I've, I've worked with other
servants who have had that kind of experience and they're,

(33:01):
they're the ones that God uses just to bring, bring back youth.
And it's, it's essential, it's essential that you know, God can
bring someone back and use them as a tool.
Right. Yeah.
And and what, what do you see being like, like the goal of of
your podcast later down the line?

(33:21):
I mean. I think definitely increasing
our reach. I mean, I, I'm, I keep setting
goals like I want to get to, youknow, by the end of this year, I
want to get to 100,000 subscribers.
That way when we approach, when we have 100,000 subscribers,
then when we approach a guest, they, you know, we have
something legs to stand on. Hey, we have 100,000
subscribers. We'd love to have you on the
podcast so we can reach to get ahigher guest.

(33:43):
Once we get that higher guest then that, you know, it's I
always just keep thinking it's just the way I'm wired.
I always think big picture and Ijust have goals to grow it and
have it as a platform that just reaches a lot of people and
hopefully allows us to talk to to a lot of people.
Like, I'd love to talk to, you know, one of the two actually ex
prime ministers of Australia 1 was Tony Abbott and one is Scott

(34:04):
Morrison, because they're both quite religious and they've
spoken about the Bible. I think Tony Abbott was like a
training to be a minister at onestage and then he ended up not
going down that path. So I want to reach these people
because, you know, they're, they're people that would be
very interesting. Somebody who ran a country,
imagine talking to them on a Christian podcast and asking
them what challenges did you face?

(34:25):
How can you, you know, how did you stay true to your morals
into your Christianity? Was there a divide or something
trying to pull you away from from your your attachment to
Christ while you were like running the country?
You know, that kind of stuff. I, I find really interesting.
I think a lot of people want to hear.
So, yeah, I just want to keep growing it so we can get even

(34:45):
bigger guests, so we can get even more reach.
That's my plan. What about you, Simon?
Yeah, I. Think I'm not going?
To have a far different goal than my partner on the podcast.
But just to add to that point, it's definitely the most
important thing is we don't losesight or touch of the reason of
why we started. And we always talk to each other

(35:05):
about that and we bring each other back.
We're, we're very blessed to be able to have two on a podcast,
like George said, just to hold each other accountable.
But even for you just, you haven't, you haven't been doing
this for a very long time, even though you've had a great
success. But as you're going to keep
getting more successful, I thinkthe important thing is you
always come back to your roots and you remember why you started

(35:27):
it. Because the devil has as a very,
very good way of him of you, us thinking that we've we've been
able to trample on all these other sins, but then he'll bring
another sin and another sin. So I think as long as we just
remember that no matter what, this is to glorify God, It's not
about us. Yes, we can be ambitious.
Yes, we can want want to be ableto spread the word of God.

(35:49):
And George is definitely a very,very ambitious person, which is
what I love about him. But we also always remember to
try and hold each other accountable, to remember that
this is all for the glory of God.
So whatever happens, we know it's coming from His will.
All we can do is our best. But yeah, that definite goal is
to definitely get bigger and bigger and bigger in order to
evangelize more and to reach more people with the Word of

(36:12):
God, hopefully. Yeah, and to and to.
Touch on your point right there.I think, yeah, the only thing
that's been kind of keeping me away from being messed with, you
know, from, from evil is being completely transparent about
everything, being transparent about like my struggles, being

(36:34):
transparent about the stuff thatwas in my past, you know,
everything along those lines. Because one, I think if there's
nothing hidden, then there's nothing to hide.
You know what I mean? Like, I don't have to worry
about people saying whatever they may say about my past or
what I continue to struggle withor anything like that.
And two, I think it makes you a lot more relatable to a lot of

(36:59):
people and it, it makes them feel like it's OK to speak on
these things, which is honestly like a a huge goal of mine
because I'm, I'm not sure if youguys know, but I, I deal with
like depression and I've had like substance abuse problems
and all types of things. But especially in our culture,
some of those things are like, like stigma kind of taboo, you

(37:23):
know? Yeah, Yeah.
So it's, it's not easily or it'snot easily talked about,
especially with kids growing up.So I, I, I do feel like it,
there needs to be a safer place for, for kids to be able to talk
about things like that or else they're going to get advice
from, you know, outside the community.
And that's not always good, you know?

(37:46):
Yeah, I, I, I, I really, really think that's, that's really
important. And I don't know, I think the
podcasts like yours and stuff like like Christian based
conversations, even that open the doors up to those types of
conversations are so necessary. Because without them, kids will

(38:10):
grow up feeling like they have to go outside of their community
or their family members or theirfriends, you know, and, and
yeah, that doesn't always end well, especially nowadays with,
I don't know what it's like out there, but we have an increase
in, in drug use. It's crazy out here.
It's, it's really bad. And, and kids get into it at a

(38:32):
really young age and it's reallysad, you know, and especially
with things like, even like being depressed or anxious in,
in our culture, maybe that's nottaken as seriously as it should
be. When when I think it really
should, you know, it's it's it'ssomething that's that's
important to deal with at a younger age or else it'll
transpire into something bigger down the line.

(38:53):
Yeah. I mean, do you feel like you've
been? Go ahead.
Sorry. I was going to say part of.
The, you know, reason we kind ofare doing this podcast
independently and not really attached to a church or it's not
like a church organization that's running the podcast.
It's just me and Simon doing independently is so we can not
have those red tape situations and be able to talk about all

(39:14):
the topics. Because obviously if it's, you
know, hey, this is a podcast done by Saint Mark's Church,
then it represents St. Mark's Church.
And they may not want to talk about this topic or that topic.
And it might, you know, they might have got, oh, don't have
that guest, that guest was involved in this or that.
We didn't want any of that. So we just had that decision
early on where either we do it with the church or we do it
separately. And then that way we don't have

(39:35):
any red tape and we can just go through and have anyone on the
podcast have any conversation weneed because like you said,
100%, we need to have these conversations because the youth
need to hear from a safe environment, this kind of
information rather than going outside.
And to your. To your point, I know this is
your episode, but I just want togive you your flowers man.

(39:58):
Not many people try decide to open up, especially when,
whatever the case may be, they don't like to open up about
their life. They sort of want to.
They want to look as perfect as they can, which is fair enough.
I don't, I don't try and judge that, but for you to be able to
open up and to tell and to say, hey, this is my story.
And for the youth or for anyone at that at that age that's going

(40:20):
through something similar. Let me let me explain to you how
God impacted my life. So that's really, really
respectful man. We love that.
Thank you man, I'm. Far from perfect.
And honestly, I wouldn't have even started this podcast if it
wasn't for father Lazarus. He was the the main force behind
getting this started. I didn't even want to be on
camera. I told him I felt like a

(40:41):
hypocrite. I still deal with tons of stuff
like in my everyday life. So it's not like it's all, you
know, gone now since I started. No, it's it's if anything, it's
it's a lot of it is is harder than ever.
And it seems like that that was like a tactic the devil used to
kind of sway me from what I should be doing.
It's, it's, it's interesting to see how the closer you get to

(41:03):
God, the more you're attacked. And I, I didn't really
understand the the entirety of what that meant until we started
this podcast. And then you start to be like,
OK, yeah, he's coming at me in every direction, you know, and
everything starts to be just a little bit tougher.
And. Yeah.
And I think it's important to beto be as open as possible.

(41:23):
And, and I like aside from the podcast in my everyday life, I
am very transparent about everything that that I deal
with. The podcast was just a
reflection of that or that episode speaking about that
stuff was just a reflection of that because, yeah, I think
transparency is like the key to 1, being relatable to somebody
going through it. And and two, for somebody to

(41:46):
receive your advice, they need to know you kind of been through
the same thing, you know? Yeah, definitely.
And I think definitely having the right frame of mind is very
important because if you know that the closer you're getting
to God, the more you're getting attacked, then you you handle
that well. You see that more attacks means
you're on the right path and that actually encourages you.

(42:07):
So for me and I think Simon, every time we feel like we're
getting attacked more or things are getting more difficult or
like even just getting to to this podcast today, like, you
know, I had, you know, my kids weren't sleeping and was
delaying me and all this stuff. I know that these are all stuff
that the devil's putting in the way because we're about to do
something good for God. So if you just frame it in that
way, anytime something bad happens, you kind of smile a

(42:28):
little bit. You say, OK, I know I'm doing
the right thing. I know I'm on the right path
because I'm just getting attacked so much.
So yeah, I think frame of mind is the most important thing
because someone else, if they have the wrong frame of mind,
they might give up. They say it's too hard.
Obviously God doesn't want me todo it if it's so hard.
That's not the right mentality and that's what the devil wants

(42:49):
you to do. But if you have the right frame
of mind, then actually you have a fire that burns harder and and
stronger because you know that you know you are on the right
path and the devil is attacking because he knows something good
is coming out of this. Yeah, and.
How do you guys like, how do youguys navigate when things like

(43:09):
that happen? What, what's like some advice
you'd give it to somebody kind of dealing with it right now?
Go. For it, Simon.
I'm not, I don't have as much wisdom as George due to his very
old age, but if someone would ask me for advice on their

(43:30):
struggles, I'd probably, I know it sounds very like mundane, but
it's the most important thing inthis world.
And that's prayer. I think when when we pray to
God, it's it's pure form of justconversation.
It's where you're able to release all your emotion.
Like I was speaking to a spiritual father and I told him

(43:53):
I'm speaking to God. And I feel as though like I'm
not hearing anything back or I'mnot sort of getting what I want,
so to speak. But once again, it's not, it's,
it's not transactional what we're asking for God, I don't
see spend 5 minutes of prayer and then expect something to
come back. It's not, we're not, it's not
the investment bank. Do you know what I mean?
So I think when he told me, he said when you want to speak to

(44:16):
God, speak to him. You have a relationship with
him. If you had a relationship with
your partner and you only when you only spoke to them when you
needed something from them, is it really a relationship?
No. So I think, I think when when
we're able to have true, sincere, honest conversation and
it doesn't need to be putting your hands down, sorry, putting

(44:36):
your head down, putting your hands together and like there's
someone taking a photo of you. Sometimes I'll be honest, I talk
to God in the car alone and people I hope think I'm on the
phone, but I just speak to God anytime I can.
And when you have him as a father in your life, instead of
just looking at him as an almighty God, which is of course

(44:57):
what he is. But when you're able to have
that dialect and that conversation with him, you find
the peace that he gives you without you even asking for it
is tremendous. So you, it makes you, it makes
you think of having to do everything yourself less and
understanding that the the weight of this world is on is on
God. And what's the weight of our

(45:17):
problems minute compared to everything else.
So I think prayer is definitely something I'd I'd tell people to
definitely do with whatever problem they're going through,
whether it's struggling with substances, whether it's
marriage, whatever the case may be, just speak to God from the
heart and you'll get the sign that you are asking for.

(45:39):
I am so shocked. Man wow, what a great answer.
What a great answer. I didn't know you were this
deep. You've never asked.
You always, you always ask otherpeople.
Maybe I need you as a guest on the podcast you.
Always say I have no hear. You haven't actually asked me
anything about God. George.
Oh man, what would you say to someone?

(46:00):
Someone. That's struggling.
I think what we always say is the difference between the
righteous and the wicked is the righteous gets up.
So that's really, you know, 2 very big extremes, someone who's
righteous and someone who's wicked.
The only difference between themis when the righteous man falls,
he gets up. So don't ever be stuck in
despair and ever feel that, you know, I feel that means I'm not

(46:22):
worthy. That means.
And then that cycle of despair and looping goes in your head
and you say, OK, well, I'm not clean enough now to go to God.
No, as soon as you fall in the in the midst of falling, go back
to God. Never ever let the devil trick
you and tell you that you're notworthy or that you know, you
need to kind of fix yourself first before you can go to God.

(46:42):
Go to God running immediately. Even if you have in the middle
of falling, even if you've just fallen, even if you feel if
you've fallen 10 times in a row,go back to God and God will
never, ever turn you away. We had a guest on our show, our
last guest, Jamie Zhou. He episode's going to come out

(47:03):
very soon. He basically had all the success
in the world. He's an influencer, He's got
like 10 million followers, had all the success in the world,
money, girls, travel, everythingthat you could ever hope for.
And something he felt so lost and so in despair and he tried
to go to all these extra things for like to get healing.

(47:23):
And then he got demon possessed and it was just really, really
bad. The only thing he needed to do
was, which touched my heart so much.
Someone invited him to go to church finally after his big
despair and he didn't know what to do and he was demon possessed
and blah blah blah. The moment that he went to the
church and the church doors opened and he walked in, he said

(47:44):
he felt an A presence come over him like, and he just started
weeping and he felt he heard God's voice and all he did
literally was just walk one stepinto the church.
Like he took one step towards God and God just came running
and rushing and straight to him.So I think, you know, you just

(48:04):
need to turn your face to God and God will do the rest.
But it's just that the devil doesn't want you to do that
initial turn. And the devil tried to stop him
from even approaching the steps of the church as soon as he got
there. That's.
All it took. Yeah, that.
Cycle of despair is really it's really tough on you when you're
going through it, you know, and,and I I've realized over time

(48:28):
the devil used that to try to isolate you because it makes it
that much easier for him to get at you when you are isolated.
So like in your opinion, how important is like a church
community and to to be there regularly without?
Without church and without church there, there's no purpose

(48:51):
for there's no. I don't know how to word this
without sounding ridiculous, butfor me personally, I'll speak
for myself when I don't have thechurch in my life regularly, I
slip so far away from God's presence and his love, and as a
result of that, I then fall intointo the world's desires, into

(49:12):
an everlasting hamster wheel, that I just think I'm going to
try and be successful. Try and be this, try and be
that. But the church community is so,
so important because one, it keeps you so unbelievably
grounded, and two, it allows youalways to remember that no
matter where you are in this world, no matter what you what
stage in life you're at, God still loved you so much and died

(49:35):
on the cross for you, the proof,the most perfect man died on the
cross for you, for me, for George, for everyone.
And if that's not a reminder to understand God's love and how
much he loves you, then I don't know what he's for.
People who can't go to church, Icompletely understand to have to
to just be able to read his wordto read the Bible is a blessing

(49:57):
in its self absolutely. But if you can also if you're
able to go to church, no matter where you are in the world, if
you can visit a church, I definitely say run to it because
as as George mentioned, Jamie Zhu, someone who had the world,
basically the world's desires athis feet, he could have anything
he ever wanted. The moment he stepped 1 foot
into that into a church, his heart became open.

(50:20):
His heart became became just full of God and and that's the
important thing. So I definitely say the church
and its community, the people that are inside are extremely,
extremely important in one's faith.
I. Think we're so super blessed to
have our church community. I see a lot of communities that

(50:41):
a lot of people that are lackingthat community and the emptiness
that they have. I mean, just a simple thing, you
go to the gym, you join a gym orsomething like that.
You see that, you know, people are trying to connect with other
people just to have a sense of community or a sense of
belonging. And you know, it will be like
one of those gyms that, you know, they have classes and
whatever and everyone, let's go to brunch, let's go to

(51:01):
breakfast, let's go to this, let's do that.
And I'm thinking, why are these people like hanging out so much
together? I just, I didn't understand it.
I'm like, it's just a gym. Like why are they like turning
it into this so tight? And I realize it's.
Because everyone has this yearning for community.
So we're very blessed to have our community, you know,
thriving. You know, the Coptic Church is a
thriving community and we have alot of youth and a lot of things

(51:24):
going on there. And I think definitely if you
are not in a church, you're missing out.
You, yes, you can have a personal relationship with God
in your home, but that's not what God intended.
God didn't intend, you know, forsomeone to be alone.
That's not God's intention. God's intention is that we're
the body of Christ. The church is the body of Christ
and we are one body. When we come and unify together

(51:47):
and we partake in the body and blood of Christ, then we are
he's the church is a spiritual body of Christ.
So I think it's, it's super important whether you've had any
bad experiences with churches oranything, put the pride aside,
put everything aside. Get to a church.
You know it will change you because when you're around
people that have the same goals and same desire to be close to

(52:12):
God, then you're going to find yourself always on.
It's like a ship. You get on the ship and it's
going towards heaven. You want you can either step on
it or you can step off. When you're at church regularly,
it's like you're on that ship with everyone moving towards
heaven. When you step off on your own,
that's when you can start straying and and losing focus as
as Simon was mentioning, like when he's out of that, if he
feels he's out of it, he kind ofgoes off on attendance.

(52:34):
If I could also say. If sorry, sorry, my God.
If I could also say good Side Story, this would probably this
was probably about four, four years ago.
I wasn't, I wasn't going to church much and George would
always text me, call me, hey, what church you're going to,
what church you're going to. And like, I work six days a
week. So obviously anyone on the 7th

(52:56):
day just wants to rest or whatever the case may be.
I didn't, I felt like going to church on a Sunday so early.
I'll do it next week, next week and next week never came.
So then he, he came to me and hesort of stopped asking now and
then he, he had told me we're going to start doing an early
math. So at Saint Mark's Church,
there's an early Mass every single day headed by one of the

(53:19):
Fathers. And this was at what, five to
seven? Yeah, five to seven.
And I'd always come up with an excuse to him, no license off,
work off this. And he just combated every
excuse. And we had gone for a few months
straight. Yes, there was some, some days
I'd be asleep at the Mass. But the important thing was

(53:41):
going there. And the, the point to that was
in those three months where I had started my day with God, I
had, I had noticed such a changein my life, whether it was just
with me or the surroundings. I kept like my usual habits at
night would be, say, going out with my friends or, or trying to
go have fun here and there. But I stopped wanting to do that

(54:03):
because I, I changed my list of priorities.
So I have church in the morning.So I want to go do that.
And if you have, if you have a good person in your life, for in
that case, it was George to where they hold you accountable
and you, you make the commitmentto go to church.
You, you don't know it, but yourlife will change.
It just naturally takes the course of changing.

(54:24):
So that's, that's definitely oneexample of how important the
church is. So I wasn't going much.
I went for three months straightwith George and I just, I never
felt, I never felt better. So absolutely.
I, I even like, I notice in, in my own life nowadays and the
times I do stay consistent with church and I do stay consistent

(54:46):
with communion and just certain things, my life is a bit
different. And when I do start to slack off
a little bit, it seems like lifegets that much harder.
And it just, it's just not the same.
And, and I do catch myself, you know, every now and then
slipping up and have to be reminded that that I need, I
need to be there. Yeah.

(55:07):
I, I, I think it's like you said, it's, it's extremely
important and it's something that we don't give enough credit
to sometimes because for one reason or another, sometimes
people have bad experiences or have had, you know, yeah, for
whatever reason, you know, that they, they don't continue to go.
But with some advice you would give somebody that has had maybe

(55:30):
not too great of an experience at a particular church or a
particular community. Yeah.
But also realize how important it is, I think.
Definitely realize that people are broken and people are not
perfect. So if somebody let you down in
church, it could be a clergy, could be a Bishop, could be a
priest, could be a Sunday schoolservant, could be whatever.

(55:52):
They're not perfect. Don't put your emphasis on them.
I know a lot of people sometimesget disappointed in their
confession, Father, because theythey think maybe they didn't,
didn't support them as much in acertain circumstance.
But then you're putting too muchemphasis on the man.
You're not. Our reliance has to be on God.
These men and these servants areall tools that God has that

(56:13):
benefit us and help us and guideus.
And you use, you know, utilize them, of course, because
they're, they're beautiful and they're essential.
But don't put all your hope and reliance on them, because if you
do and they let you down, then there's a chance that you will
get turned off God, which is theworst thing because God is the
perfect one that you can put allyour reliance and all your hope.

(56:34):
So it's all about shifting focus.
Don't focus on the person or thepreacher or the pastor or the
priest or the clergyman. Don't focus on them.
Focus on Christ and take what you know, utilize them to to the
level that you're meant to utilize them.
Let them be mediators. Let them be guides.
Let them be, you know, people that you, that can point you in
the right direction, but don't put all your hope on them.

(56:56):
And at the same time, if you're uncomfortable at a certain
church, go to another church. You know, go.
The important thing is go. You know, I'm, I'm not saying
change denominations, but I'm sure there's another.
If you're going to Orthodox Church, go to another Orthodox
Church down the road or in a different suburb.
If you have to travel an extra 20 minutes, but you, you feel
comfortable, then do that. I remember Pope Shinoda was

(57:19):
asked once, you know, I don't, someone asked him a question on
his weekly Wednesday meetings and they they asked him, you
know, I don't really like my confession Father.
At the moment. I'm not really comfortable with
him. And he goes, my son get another
confession, father. Like, it's not, it's not, it's
not that deep. Like, you know, if you're not
comfortable with him, find someone else that you're
comfortable with. It's not.
It's not a bad thing. I I agree.

(57:43):
That's no go ahead, sorry. No, no, continue.
Yeah, no, I've seen. I, I tend to to hear that a lot
from people is like they've had one or two bad experiences and
they completely like, you know, throw the baby with the
bathwater and just completely toss the idea of going to church
all together. I want.

(58:04):
To ask a question, Mike, sorry, I know it's I know it's your
podcast, but from this conversation, I can tell we
we've all sort of been through different walks of life in a
way. And I'd love to hear from both
of you, Mike and George Webb andI'm sure the viewers I hope will
take something from this. But we'll start with Mike.
What was a point in time where you definitely felt God playing

(58:28):
a role in your life? At whatever stage in your life,
whether it was going through depression or maybe some
addictions with certain drugs? What was the time where you felt
sort of at your lowest, but you knew God was there, and how did
he play a part in that? Yeah.
I definitely God. God showed up for me at the

(58:50):
lowest points of my life and, and the the pivotal moment where
I I was like, yeah, I I have to change something and something
needs to be done different was in 2022.
I ended up overdosing and crashing my car with my ex at
the time in the car. And it was just one of those

(59:11):
moments where having a near death experiences will will
change you for anybody that's ever experienced it, it it it
will change you one way or another.
And that that moment was, was honestly like.
Yeah, kind of threw threw. Me for a loop.

(59:32):
It kind of made me just re examine my whole life, what I
was doing with my life, why I was even here.
You, you get to a point where you're like, like, what am I
even doing here? You know?
And, and during the moment of like the crash, I had this whole
like outer body experience. And and I don't know if you had
seen the video, but but three days after I had crashed, I had

(59:56):
this like encounter with God. And some some people, like I
said, brush, like brush it off as something that you know,
might not be a real thing, but. I can tell you, man, like it
was, it was real. It was as real as anything can
possibly be. And there's one of those moments
where. It's one of those moments.

(01:00:19):
That will make will make your life.
It's one of those moments where you'll you'll never forget it
and. Yeah, since.
Since that day, it's been a journey back since that day, I'm
not going to say it's been a complete 180 all of a sudden,
no, But everything changed one way or another.

(01:00:42):
And it was a slow progression just trying to find God again.
And I think God tends to use your lowest moments as these
like, yeah, these pivotal moments where he's given you an
opportunity to change things and.
I would like to. Hope the majority of people do

(01:01:03):
change in that moment. It's, it's sad to say that some
don't because that is the reality of the situation, but I
do think he gives us all the same opportunity.
And I do think he, he makes himself makes himself known to
us during those moments like when I, when I'm, when I'm going

(01:01:27):
through my, my worst depressions, when I'm
withdrawing in a jail cell, whenI'm, you know, overdosing and
ending up in a hospital. It's just those moments I tend
to see. I seen God more than any other
moment in my life and. I think that says.
Something about our God too. I really do.

(01:01:50):
I feel like when everybody abandons you, he's he's there
and. That's honestly like.
Something that's just it's it's beautiful beyond words like it's
something that that you can't expect from a human.
You just can't. It's just the only one that can
give you that type of comfort and love and understanding is

(01:02:14):
our God. There's, there's, it's, it's,
it's so beautiful man, that, that he'll meet you in your
lowest place, the place where you don't even want him to be
because you feel so ashamed. You, you, you feel like you've
done everything incorrectly or wrong or everything to make you
look so bad in the eyes of God. And in those moments is when he

(01:02:37):
loves you the most. And, and I really think that
that's something people should remember.
And that's something people should take into consideration
because, yeah, sometimes we feellike we're too broken to go back
or we've done too, too much bad to turn back.
And that's not the case. That's that's so far from the
truth. I think in those moments or when

(01:03:00):
he shows you. His most love?
Because he knows you need it themost, you know?
And yeah, I'm grateful for thosemoments because if it wasn't for
those moments, I wouldn't have felt because you, you feel God's
love during your highs, right? And your, your, your moments of

(01:03:20):
success and, and, and happiness.But man, that's a different type
of comfort when you're going through it and your world's
falling apart and he's standing right there with you.
You know, it's, it's something that can't be put into words.
It's, it's anything I say will, will, won't be good enough.
You know, it's just, yeah, I, I those, those moments show me

(01:03:44):
how, how loving of a God we have.
And those moments show me how, how much of A forgiving God we
have. There's, there's literally
nothing as long as you turn backto him that, that he will turn
away and just won't accept. No, he, he wants you to come
back. Doesn't matter where you are in
life or like what you've dealt with, what you've been through.
Like he wants you to turn and, and, and head in the right

(01:04:05):
direction, you know, and he's always going to be there
waiting. And it's, it's just hard to
comprehend sometimes when you'rein those low moments because you
don't feel worthy, you feel as worthless as you can possibly
be, you know, And he uses those moments to just make it such a,
such a paramount moment in your life where it's just he, he

(01:04:25):
builds you from there. And, and what he builds from
there is beyond anything you could have done yourself.
There's there's just absolutely no way you could have even
reached that potential without him and understanding that has
been has been life changing man,to say the least.
Can you tell us? About that encounter that you
had. Yeah, yeah.

(01:04:49):
So I, I, I overdosed and I crashed my car.
I had a whole experience there where like an Angel showed me
like my whole timeline of my life, you know, and kind of
showing me every like every single little decision man.
And like was showing me these like different outcomes of I was

(01:05:12):
above myself, seeing myself kindof just lay dead on the ground
And it would show me the scenario where, OK, I was passed
away. My family was standing around me
crying. Another scenario where like my
ex at the time had passed away and her family around their cry.
So all these like scenarios of what could have happened and

(01:05:34):
then I went, I had got taken to jail.
I detoxed at the jail and then exactly 3 days after that I was
back at my house and my dad had called me and he had gotten a
dream from my grandmother had passed away already.

(01:05:56):
And she was just telling him like, oh like Mike's going to be
OK. Like like you don't have to
worry about him. Stuff like that.
And that really like to really choke me up because me and my
grandma are really close and forher to feel like she intervened
to just comfort my dad like thatkind of like broke me a bit, you
know. And it was, I had like, I had a
pain pill left in my room. And after I hung up the phone

(01:06:19):
with him, I just, I just went and I flushed it right.
And as soon as I flushed it, I, my spirit just got like taken
out of my body. It was just, it was really weird
and it's in it and I really tried to make sense of it for
quite some time. And I couldn't, you know, there
was, there was nothing other than like divine intervention

(01:06:40):
that that made sense. And so my spirit was just, it
was pulled up and then pulled down and it was another Angel
kind of taking me down these like levels of hell, so to say,
like, and it was just kept showing me these like worse and
worse and worse levels. And then as I was getting to

(01:07:03):
like the the last word, like hell is, you know, where
everybody is, this light just came from above and like hit my
shoulder and I like, I flew up, right?
Like I was just like a ball of light and I kind of flew up and
I was in front of just like. It was God, man.
I don't, I don't care what it, you know what I'm saying, what

(01:07:25):
anybody says or thinks. Like it was just this big like
ball of light. I, I say it all the time.
It looks like the sun. It looked like the sun, but it
wasn't hot. It was just really comforting
and warm and loving like the, the, the best feeling I probably
ever experienced. And even even then, like me
trying to compare it to something I've experienced here

(01:07:47):
doesn't, doesn't even come close.
And he was, he was pretty much just like, like.
Telling me stuff. But it was more of like a like
in a telepathic way, like I wasn't like hearing it with my
ears. It was just kind of just being
put into my brain kind of even though like, yeah, I wasn't in

(01:08:08):
my body. So all of it, it was really hard
to make sense of, you know, and the, the feeling of like,
comfort and love and just peace,It felt like this life was a
dream. It felt like this one was a
dream. And that one was just real.
And I didn't want to come back. I remember that feeling

(01:08:30):
specifically because, yeah, I, Ididn't want to come back.
I wanted to stay there. And he told me I have to go back
and gave me some things like he,he, he told me a few things I'll
share that I spoke about on the video I had made one saying that
like the the reason I'm, I'm here and the reason I'm, I'm

(01:08:54):
even saved is because of my faith.
And at the time, I, I didn't think I had any faith at all.
I not even close, you know, likeI didn't think like that was
even something that you can put next to my name, faith and Mike
that doesn't even, you know, like add up.
But and another thing was him telling me that I have to tell

(01:09:15):
people about what happened because it's going to help
people and it's going to help people that were in my
particular situation where it comes to like addiction and you
know, being in those low places.But it took me, it took me years
for me to get that story out. I recorded it multiple times.

(01:09:37):
I just couldn't put it out. I don't know if it was like me
thinking people were going to think I'm crazy or people just
wouldn't understand or just being embarrassed.
I don't know. I don't know.
But it just, it never got out. I made a TikTok before, posted
it, deleted it. It was just this constant thing
of like trying to get it out andit just, I wouldn't let myself
get it out, you know, But when people tell me God's not real

(01:10:03):
man, like there's like, it's hard for me not to like just
laugh and be like, dude, you don't know what you're talking
about. Like you really don't
understand. Like he, it's real man.
Like, like it's real and, and he's real and hit and everything
they that we've learned about him is real.
And it was, it was a life changing moment to say the

(01:10:27):
least. And I meant the next day, like
I, I literally like it was a Saturday and I, there's church
on Sunday. And I ran to church, man.
I didn't have a car at the time,but the church was like maybe
like a 10 minute walk from whereI was staying.
And I booked it there, man. And I, as soon as I get to, as
soon as I had a chance to talk to Father Lazarus, I was like

(01:10:50):
breaking down, like trying to get out the story, you know?
And he's like looking at me, just smiling and telling me
like, oh, like, I can see something in your eyes, you
know? And yeah, it was, it was just
life changing. And honestly, I wish more people
could experience that first handbecause if they did, I guarantee

(01:11:12):
you they would not believe any doubt about God that that
wouldn't even cross their mind. It it was, it was one of those
moments that it's like a reference.
Point. You can always go back to it
now, yeah. Yeah, amazing.
It's. Yeah, it's, it's one of those
where like it, it, it had such an impact on my life, dude.

(01:11:34):
Like when I, when I tell you like my life was like I was, I
was a full blown junkie. I was as depressed, so I was
just, it was so bad, man, so bad.
And that moment, just that one moment changed everything.
And again, it didn't change overnight, but it gradually

(01:11:55):
started to just change. And like the knowledge of what I
just experienced wasn't going anywhere.
There wasn't any erasing that. There wasn't trying to like even
make sense of it. You knew what happened.
And then as humans are rational mind is to try to rationalize it
and try to make it make sense. And it just just didn't man.
The only thing that made sense was like God like intervened,

(01:12:17):
you know, and dude like that. It still gives me like the
chills and I still kind of get like away speaking about it
because like I said, this isn't something that other than like
my close family that I've spokento about it or like Father
Lazarus, like there's only like a handful of people that I've
actually like spoke to about it.And I never really went too in

(01:12:39):
depth about it because it would take forever, man.
Like it felt like so much happened in such a short amount
of time. But in reality, it was only
like, I want to say like an hourlike, and that that I've had
that experience, you know, And even when I when I like like got
back, so to say, and my asked myex at the time, I was like, hey,

(01:13:03):
was I like, was I like saying anything?
Was I acting different? And she was like, no, you were
just sitting there. But you seem like just
completely disconnected. Just I was just there
apparently. Like, I don't remember because I
I wasn't in my human body at thetime, you know, I was, my spirit
was elsewhere, man. And yeah, man, I wish people

(01:13:27):
could could experience that first hand.
I find it very. Interesting the way you told
your story because we just had Father Bishoy episode 11 which
just launched this week and he was telling a story about
someone who had an out of body experience where they actually
died and came back to life. They died on operating table
while doing a surgery for an appendix and they declared him

(01:13:50):
dead. He was dead for like, you know,
a couple of minutes and then outof nowhere, he just got up and
he told his story and it, there's a lot of comparisons to
your story. He said that he, he's, he's, he
was looking at himself above andhe could see the, the, the
people trying to resuscitate himand that he was like dead.
And then they said he said that his soul like got sucked like

(01:14:12):
almost like into like a tube, a dark tube.
And it just went from one level of darkness to another level of
darkness to another level of darkness until it got to the
very darkest point. And it's exactly how you
described it. So he had A and I haven't seen.
That episode, man, I didn't. I haven't.
That's amazing. So.
He described it the same I've told this.

(01:14:33):
Yeah, I've told the same exact thing to people for the last
like 3 years. I've been trying to, you know,
like get people to be like, hey dude, like this is real man.
Like there's, there's no doubt about it, this is real.
And, and honestly, I'm, I'm blessed to have experienced it
because if it wasn't for that, Idon't think my life would have
took a turn the way it did. I think him knowing me and him

(01:14:57):
knowing the person I am, it had to be such a drastic thing to
wake me up or else I wouldn't have got the point.
And, and I'm so grateful for it.And I like, I, I beyond words,
like I'm so grateful for it because yeah, life, life is
different now, man. I would have never in a million
years thought I would be doing apodcast that's Orthodox based

(01:15:20):
talking about God. That never would have crossed my
mind, dude, ever, ever, ever. And and to see how he uses
people, like I said, in your lowest moments, it's it shows
you how loving he is honestly, Ithink.
It's a sign from God that he's got big plans for you, for him
to give you that big revelation.I think definitely God did that

(01:15:40):
because he knows that, you know,you have a big, a big calling
and that big calling is like yousaid, being able to speak from
that vantage point. Then you know, some, like other
people can't speak from that vantage point.
And to say that you went down that path and came back, that's
that is priceless, honestly. So I think definitely God is
using you and may keep using youman to to spread that because

(01:16:04):
it's beautiful. Don't ever be ashamed of that
story. It's a beautiful story and
definitely has truth to it. Like 100.
Percent thank you. And I biggest, biggest concern
of mine, like even with this broadcast thing, is to let it
transpire into something that goes into helping people with
addiction and helping people that are homeless and that are

(01:16:25):
in need. Because.
And if it wasn't for the supportI had, if it wasn't for my
family, I'd be in the same boat,man.
I, I wasn't too far from it. I'm not going to lie to you.
I was, I was right there and andI was, I was, I was doing drugs
on and off for 15 years before that.
I, I didn't really have a sober week, you know, and it just got

(01:16:47):
worse and worse and worse until like it, the only thing left
was, oh, this is you're going to, you're going to leave this
Earth, man. And it's not going to be fun,
you know? And yeah, I think it's really,
really important that we, we like I said, make it to where
people are able to talk about those things because a lot of

(01:17:09):
the times they're, they want to get better and they want to, you
know, fix their life. They just don't know how.
At least like in my, I didn't know how.
I didn't, I didn't understand what steps were necessary, you
know what I mean? Like, and I think that's, that's
so important because these people aren't bad people, dude.
Like they're not, they're just, they just made a few bad

(01:17:30):
decisions and now they're in a bad spot.
But when I'm telling you it could happen to anybody, it
could really happen to anybody. And I see it happen more and
more and it really like, it breaks my heart, especially when
you talk to these people and they're genuinely good people,
dude. Like they're, they, they have a
good heart. They're not bad people.
They just, they, they a few bad choices and you know, like

(01:17:54):
you'll end up in a place you never expected.
So I, I definitely want that to be a goal of mine is, is to help
people in that same situation. Amazing.
Can I ask what was the starting point of, of you going down that
path? Like what if, what's the, is
there a specific moment that youkind of took that road and it

(01:18:15):
LED down that road? Or was it just, you know,
something happened here, something happened there and
eventually found yourself there?Or was it a specific situation
we said that opened this door that kind of gave you that kind
of temptation in your life? It it was like a gradual
increase. I started when I was in middle
school one because so my parentsare first generation out here.

(01:18:38):
They they immigrated. So I'm from sorry, I'm first
generation. So they, they didn't know the
culture. I don't have, I have a younger
brother, but I had nobody older than me to kind of guide me
through things. So the place we ended up moving
to when we first got here wasn'tthe greatest neighborhoods just
kind of got mixed in with the wrong crowd.
You didn't really have people around you.

(01:19:01):
And just one thing leads to another man.
And and you, you find yourself in a situation where you don't
know how to fix it. And as time went on, it just
kept getting worse and worse andworse.
And then you don't, you don't see it getting worse.
You, you think it's like, it's it's OK.
It's not too bad until you try to stop and then it's the
problem, you know? And then, yeah, when when when I

(01:19:25):
ended up I have a gunshot wound in my hand.
I got prescribed Oxycontin and from there when I stopped
getting it from my doctor I was withdrawing really bad so I just
went to go buy some but it endedup being fentanyl and after I

(01:19:48):
did that a couple times I was stuck man.
I tried to stop fentanyl probably like I want to say 8-9
times to where like I, I went tothe hospital, I went to rehabs,
like I, I genuinely tried because that was the only thing
where I, I felt hopeless. I legit felt hopeless.
I, I did not know how I was going to get out of this.
It was one of those where I'm like, dude, like this is it like

(01:20:08):
this is how we're going to die. I, I, I completely gave up after
like the sixth time. I was just like, man, I don't
even know if I keep doing this and then.
Somebody would try to encourage me to go try again.
And in the back of my mind I'm like, dude, this is not going to
work. Like it just it's one of those
things where it's when it has a hold on you, it's it's almost

(01:20:29):
impossible to just shake off. You know, you really need like a
good plan. You need good support around you
and you need to be serious aboutwanting to get clean and that
mixed in with being depressed and, you know, having thoughts
about, you know, harming yourself or whatever the case
might be. It's not a good combination.

(01:20:49):
But I mean, the devil thrives inthat scenario.
You know, he, he, he uses that and then he takes advantage of
that. And yeah, dude, it's and I see
it. I see it with other people too.
Sometimes they'll, they'll go infor like a broken arm or you
know, like something, something that just happened and, and
they'll get prescribed for maybe2-3 months.

(01:21:09):
And then now all of a sudden they're, they're withdrawing
without the meds, you know, and then they go try to buy them and
maybe they get something fake ormaybe they just find a cheaper
alternative, which is, like I said, like fentanyl.
And it's, it's one of those things you do it one time and,
and it has you. And, and I know that sounds like
cliche of all drugs, but no, dude, like that one in

(01:21:31):
particular, that one, if you tryit once, it has you, if it
doesn't kill you the first time it has you.
And it's not anything that's like you can just shake off.
But I, I do think it was, yeah, if, if there was a community or
if there was like people I couldturn to or people that

(01:21:51):
understood what was going on, I don't think that would have been
as big as a problem as it was. But because there wasn't it, it
was just like I was just the, the, the, the easiest route, I
guess. And as a kid being 15 years old,
like, and nobody to turn to, like, yeah, you're kind of going
to go with whatever advice sounds OK, you know, and it

(01:22:12):
wasn't always the best advice. And it just, you know, you, you,
you get into this lifestyle where it's really hard to shake
and it's really hard to change, especially when you don't have
an alternative. Like, it's cool to want to stop,
but if you don't have anything to replace it with, that's
almost impossible. You need to replace it with
something healthy. You know, we've heard that
advice a lot actually, that. If you don't, don't just stop us

(01:22:35):
in, you have to replace it. Right.
Yeah. And it's true because you just
like, you stop and you just havethis like this free time and
this, like this, this mind that just gets racing and you don't
know what to do with it, you know, and, and the only thing
that makes sense is to go use because that's what you know the
most and that's what's been comforting you all these years.

(01:22:56):
So it just, it, it's definitely,it's definitely necessary for
you to have a healthy replacement.
But yeah, dude, I mean, I, I do think just, a lot of kids
nowadays are just lost, man. They're just, that's all it is.
They just don't have anybody to turn to or they don't have any
like understanding of what a healthy life looks like or what

(01:23:17):
a healthy relationship with God looks like.
You know, they, they, they just,yeah, they're just lost, man.
That's really all it is. And I think like love,
especially God's love, like that's, that's the only thing
that's going to fix it, you know, or that's the only thing
that I know will for sure fix it, you know, Yeah, dude, I, I

(01:23:38):
really think that that's the only solution to all this is to
have a good relationship with God.
And, and he can fix it, trust me.
Like he, he can, he can get the job done.
You know, it just, we have to bewilling to, to surrender.
And that's, that's hard to do sometimes, you know, to, to give
up control, especially when you're not getting like results
right away, especially when it'sjust like you're basing it off

(01:24:01):
faith and you're just kind of, you have to just trust that
he'll, he'll take care of it, you know?
But if you haven't had experiences in your life where
God has already done that for you, it's kind of hard for you
to just trust, you know, just being humans.
It's hard to trust another human.
But we're not understanding thatGod works in different ways.
And it's, yeah, it's very hard to surrender so.

(01:24:26):
Let's say other than the divine intervention that you had,
what's the number one thing thathelped you get out of it that
you can kind of pass on to somebody who's struggling right
now? What's the number one thing that
you did to get you out of it, rather other than just thinking
back about that divine intervention that you had?
Yeah, I think it's. Having people around you that

(01:24:48):
have your best interest in mind.So like if it wasn't for certain
people in my family, certain people that were my friends,
people like Father Lizers, Father Lizers trying to get me
to go to rehabs and go to hospitals and get clean more
times than I can count. If it wasn't for people trying
to to help, that's it's very, very, very hard.

(01:25:12):
I would say almost impossible todo on your own.
I don't think it's a good idea to do on your own, one, because
you need support, but two, you need emotional support.
It's not just the, the physical part of they know like you, you
deal with so much like 'cause you've been numbing out your
emotions for so long that when they all come rushing back in,

(01:25:33):
you don't know what to do with them.
And you need somebody to help you navigate that.
So anybody that's like dealing with that particular situation,
I would encourage them to get some people around them that and
just be honest with your, with the people that love you as much
as you feel like it might be embarrassing or you're going to
get judged for it or whatever they can trouble whatever.
I guarantee you that outcome is a lot better than the

(01:25:56):
alternative. That outcome of you being judged
or people being mad at you or whatever the case may be is a
lot better than than what could happen when you just keep it all
to yourself. And I, I even encourage people
that don't even know me, like please reach out to me.
I, I would, I would love to, youknow, try to help if I can, if
not kind of direct you in the, in the, the right way, because

(01:26:20):
man, that's a really dark place to be.
It's, it's not fun, man, it's not fun.
And it's, it's, it's a very, very low place in life where you
feel like. Nothing is going to get you.
Out of it and that feeling of hopelessness, man, the devil
thrives on that he he loves thathe, he will keep you there for
as long as he can and and that'ssomething that I think can only

(01:26:42):
be battled and and fought off with, with people that love you
and believe, you know, and you need to believe God loves you
100. Percent I'm so glad that you you
shared that and I think people will take a lot out of that and
hopefully we'll we'll we'll definitely when we post this
episode we'll put your Instagramlinks so people can reach out to

(01:27:05):
you if if they need to because Ithink you you can definitely
help people in that position this is to.
Answer your question earlier. This is the.
This is the why. This is the purpose of why we do
what we do because to for people, they may see, they may
see you and be like, oh, he's interviewed priests, he's done
all this, but they don't know the struggle that it's taken for

(01:27:27):
you to get here. The the life that you had to
leave in order for you to come out of the other side and now be
able to preach the word of God because you said it yourself.
God knows your personality. God may know the stubbornness
that you carry to we. It could be a small fall and
you'll get back up a little bit,but then you'll start falling
again. So he had to nearly take your

(01:27:47):
life, show you you the outcomes in order for you to really wake
up. And it's never a loss in life.
It's only a lesson. And you learnt a lot.
I'll tell you that. Just hearing that story is, is
unbelievable to see how how far one side you were compared to
where you are now. And obviously you're still
struggling as we all are. But just to see if you were to

(01:28:09):
look at yourself from 2022 to now, you'd be, you'd say to
yourself, man, Mike's a completely different person.
So it's honestly a blessing whatGod, what God puts us through,
whether it's the struggle in life or it's the beauty of life,
it's a blessing in everything because we learn, we learn, we
learn and we're able to, we're able to show others that maybe

(01:28:30):
they don't have to go through that, but learn from our
mistakes. So it's a blessing, I know,
absolutely. And, and, and, and I, like I
said, I appreciate what you guysdo because in those like
moments, you, you do want, you need, you need some positivity.
So, so channels like yours, channels like, like other
Christian channels, other thingsthat give you a little bit of

(01:28:51):
hope and have way more of an impact than you think, you know,
especially when you, when you are in those moments.
So I, I, I really think, man, you guys are doing a great job.
Continue doing what you're doingyeah and I wish you guys like
nothing but blessings, man. You guys guys are amazing.
Thank you so much you. Too, man, we are so blessed to
have met you and heard about your journey.

(01:29:12):
And I think you know you're at the very beginning stage of your
ministry because you're going todo a lot of good things.
And I can say that it's clear asday like God is going to use
you. And I think use that purpose to,
to keep moving forward because God has given you that purpose
to help people in, in ways that we can't.
So definitely keep that going. And like another point that I'll

(01:29:35):
say is what's beautiful about technology and social media,
which you know, is the reach is unbelievable.
I mean, we, we have people in Kenya, we have people in Saudi
Arabia, had people in Armenia, we had people in UK.
We're not, we're not just bound by our, our, our territory or

(01:29:55):
our, our church doors. Now you know, the whole world
can benefit. So definitely your message is
very powerful. And you know, hopefully we can
propagate it and get more peopleto, to subscribe.
So it pushes the content out more and we get more reach
around the world where where people need it.
No, absolutely. And like I said, man, just keep

(01:30:16):
doing what you guys are doing because trust me, it's helping a
lot more people than you can possibly imagine.
And one more. Thing if I can add, just if a
piece of advice we can give to you, just remain, remain how you
are. Be be what brought you to the
dance. Be authentic, be so transparent

(01:30:36):
because people love that they don't want, they don't want some
phony. They don't want someone just
trying to preach and and and carry on.
But if you're just transparent and you tell them not only the
the highs of life, but the lows of lows, man, I'm speaking to
you like from the heart, from what I was hearing.
It's a beautiful journey that you've been on.

(01:30:56):
Definitely a rough one, but you've definitely come out the
other side much better, thank God.
And man, just just stick to being you because like George
said, Mike, you've got a very, very bright future, I hope of
just bringing people closer to God, which is the ultimate,
ultimate, ultimate goal in life than anyone can ask for.
To be able to reflect God in our, in our actions, in our

(01:31:17):
everyday actions is is a blessing we all wish to have.
So keep doing you, Mike Mack. Absolutely.
Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate that.
Thank you all I guess. It's fine.
Thank you guys for 5:00 AM. You'll take you some time out.
Yeah, yeah. Thank you guys for taking some
time out to do this. I know we've been, we've been
going for quite a bit right now.But yeah, I, I really am

(01:31:38):
grateful that you guys, you know, took some time to do an
interview because I think it's important for people to get to
know you guys as well as why you're doing what you're doing.
I appreciate it. Thanks for.
Giving us the opportunity, Simonalways was telling me, you know,
maybe we should have an episode where we talk about us and what
why we did this. And I was like, oh, I don't want
it to be about us. Let's be about the guests.
Let's be about the next thing. But I think it's important

(01:32:00):
because it's it's good that people know where, what our
motives are. So I thank you so much for
giving us that opportunity. Not a problem and know when you
make it out to LA, let me know and I'll gladly show you guys
around. But we're going to take you to a
basketball. Game Australia one day we're.
Going to take you to ANBA. Game We.
Can do that hopefully. Hopefully we don't drag it out
too long. I don't want to go with 240 year

(01:32:21):
old men so should should be fine.
I was just kidding. Thank you guys so much man.
And I'm looking forward to, you know, working with you guys in
the future, definitely, hopefully.
Thank you so much again. God bless you, Mark.

(01:32:47):
Come in Welcome to the Salt podcast.
My name is Simon Thomas Gilto and joining me is my handsome Co
host. As always, Georgia scanned up
today. We are now doing a collab start
that again bubbly. Sorry, this is the last it was
so. Natural before, now he's just
he's. Lost sorry, last one.

(01:33:07):
He's lost it. Mike, forgive us.
Please take your time. Out always all right.
Sorry my you already got my one.From Simon.
Oh my, we got to do my intro again and then you.
OK. Welcome to the Salt podcast.
My name is Simon Thomas. Sorry, sorry.

(01:33:30):
George, it's going to be. Blooper, Real George.
Stop, go, go. It's really hot.
The lights are hot. Today.

All Episodes

EP 13 | From Jail Floors to God’s Grace | The Orthodox Spirit x The Salt Podcast

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

24/7 News: The Latest

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP 13 | From Jail Floors to God’s Grace | The Orthodox Spirit x The Salt Podcast