Big Blue Kickoff Live 12/17 | League Landscape

John Schmeelk and Matt Citak go through each NFL team on the cusp of the playoffs to find trends, discuss how the Giants can close the gap on those teams, and take calls from fans.

:00 - Playoff team traits

29:20 - NFC teams

44:00 - Final takeaways

50:00 - Calls

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line. Nobody can
ever tell you that you couldn't do it because you're
on Giants dot Com. You know what I saw New
York Giant Track and the Giants Mobile at.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Seventeen fourteen at the finals.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
One tick down, we all, We're all Tavern.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Were a hat of the Giants Podcast Network.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Let's go on dog.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello everybody, and welcome to Tuesday's edition a Big Blue
Kickoff livee presented by Cadillact, the official luxury vehicle of
the New York Football Giants. I am johns Shwell, joined
by Matthew Sitak. The phone number few is two A
one nine three nine four five one three two A
one nine three nine four five one three will take
your calls throughout the show.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
UH.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Paul's in from me yesterday. Thank him for stepping in
along with mister Stak for taking over the usual Monday slot.
I had something going on that I had to take
care of. I appreciate them stepping in.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I don't want to review that Giant Raven game again
because I think Brian Dables said it as best he
could in his postgame press conference. We ran into a
very good football team. They played well, we didn't. So
that's how you get thirty five to fourteen, and that's
I think all that needs to be said about it.
We know the Ravens are one of the best teams
in the league and they showed that against the Giants
on Sunday, so I thought today would be a fun

(01:16):
day to do something a little bit different. I've been
watching a lot of non Giants football they show. I
know you have as well, and I'm sure you guys
will be diving into that too. As we get towards
the end of the year, we have a lot of
standalone games. The Saturday windows are gonna start. You have
the games on Christmas Eve, the games on Christmas, so
there's gonna be a lot of games that we can
all watch. As we watch, what some of these playoff

(01:39):
teams bounds look like, what they're up to, and how
they've gotten there. So I figure would take a quick
look at some of these teams, maybe some things they
have in common, some things they don't have in common,
and figure out exactly what makes them tick and how
they've either gotten where they are, whether it's a consistent
thing year and you're out a one year wonder type
of thing and we can have that conversation.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Sounds good. You ready to go? I'm ready, all right.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
So let's start. I always think of this as I
think of my old techno Super Bowl SNS video game,
where it starts at the AFC East on the top
and then it goes around. So that's what I'm gonna do.
Buffalo Bills one of the best teams in football right now.
They had a huge forty two twenty eight. Was that
the final score of that game forty five to twenty
eight against the Lines.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Over the weekend? Yeah, I think it ended one possession.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Oh you know what, I think the lines that have
the late scorer, right, So it was forty eight forty
two and the Bills behind two epic Josh Allen performances
the last two weeks are looking like one of the
tough routes in the National Football League. So you look
at where the Bills are. You have Brandon Bean and
Sean McDermott their general manager head coach, been together since
twenty seventeen, so this is their eighth season together at

(02:47):
the Helm. They obviously have a top not top five,
top two, top three quarterback. You could put him Lamar
and Patrick Mahomes, and whatever order you want. I would
put Allen at two myself because I just can't with
anyone over Patrick Mahomes because he just keeps winning in
every big spot that he needs to win in. It's
like one of those deals where even though Brady might

(03:09):
not be having the best individual year, He's always a
number one quarterback because of your confidence in him in
a big spot. That's how I feel about Mahomes right now.
Fantastic this year. What I pull for each one of
these teams is where they are in terms of DVOA
on both sides of the ball. So I got on offense.
The Bills right now are second in DVOA, so second
best offense in the league, and their tenth on defense.

(03:31):
Their yards are a little bit worse on defense, twenty
third in terms of yards on defense, but tenth in
terms of DVOA. So those are the two ways I
kind of broke down each team and look top quarterback coaching.
GM have been together a long time where you look
for their other investments, Their major investments in terms of

(03:51):
free agency, re signing guys and draft have really been
on the defensive line, where you look at Greg Russo
you look at at Oliver they signed von Miller to
that was it a trade trade for von Miller? They
traded for von Miller a couple of years ago. Then
they think they brought him back. So that's where a
lot of their investments have been. They have not invested
a ton in perimeter players. Dalton Kincaid was a first

(04:12):
round pick. They traded for a Mark Cooper this year,
but they haven't put a ton of resources into that.
James Cook was a mid round draft pick, and running
back Dawkins is the guy they've resigned on the offensive line,
but he is not a super high pick. They don't
have other super high picks on the offensive line. So
for them, it's quarterback, it's defensive line, and its continuity
with the with the GM and the head coach.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, I mean, I know easy to say, but the
success of the Bills starts and finishes with Josh Allen.
I mean, what he's been doing, especially this last month
is is insane. I mean, he's playing out of his mind.

(04:54):
Last week, not this past Sunday, the week before, three
passing touchdowns and three rushing touch sounds what he did
this past Sunday against the Lions, all granted a depleted
Lions defense, but still was unbelievable. And that came to
the last two games were after that game against the
forty nine ers in the snow where he had that

(05:15):
ridiculous play where he scored the touchdown with Amari Cooper
lateraling him the ball. So yes, the Bills have been
playing some great football. But I mean, again it's easy
to say, but it starts and finishes with Josh Allen.
He has elevated the play of all of those offensive
playmakers around him. I mean, as you mentioned, they have

(05:37):
not spent you know, a top draft pick on any
of these playmakers.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Dalton Kinkaid is the only one who was elite for
exactly Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
I meant, like you know, top ten to fifteen, been
picking in the.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Top fifteen because of Josh Allow.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
But like Dalton Kincaid was twenty fifth. Yep. Keon Coleman
was what the first thirty third second round yet third
James Cook was the last pick in the second round.
You go through all the playmakers, I mean, not a
single one of them were the Bills taken with a
high pick. He has elevated the play of everyone around

(06:11):
him over the years, we've seen him also sort of
mask some of the I would say slight weaknesses Buffalo
has had at times on the offensive line. When you
have a quarterback that can just avoid pressure and run
for twenty yards while running over three defenders and picking
up at first down or a touchdown, yep, it masks
some of your other deficiencies. And yeah, I mean on

(06:34):
the defensive side of the ball, I would say you
nailed it with they have. It seems like they've spent
a lot of resources on the defensive front. Between Rousseau,
Epinessa at Oliver, I mean, I think all of those
guys were first or second round.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oliver and Rousseau were one.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Yeah, Oliver was pretty taken, pretty high.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
He was. He was one of the top ten picks
that I believe right there.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yes, but yeah, that's another team that have sort of
over the years have had injuries to their secondary and
just because there's such a juggernaut on offense, it's masked everything.
So this is a team where if you find a
quarterback that's even eighty percent of what Josh Allen is,

(07:22):
you'd be in pretty good shape.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yes, all right, let's move to the next team. The
team leading the AFC North. That will tit on the
Steelers and the Ravens because they have a big game
coming up.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
I believe this week correct Saturday.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, so that is a four to thirty standalone Saturday game.
And the Steelers right now have a one game lead
on the Ravens and the AFC North. So both these
teams are ones worth talking about. Steelers right now. Seventeenth
in terms of offensive DVOA. That's gone up since Russell
Wilson has been there obviously, Seventh in defensive DVOA obviously
Mike Tomlin has been there forever. They've got a lot
of continuity with the front office. And again, this is

(07:55):
a team that has really put a lot of resources
up front on both sides of the football. Last two years.
They've used two first round picks on offensive line blinneman,
a second round pick on an offensive lineman, and a
fourth round pick on an offensive lineman. Go back a
little bit further. They worry about their work up front.
You know, Alonzo Highsmith is one of their not not

(08:17):
Alonzo Highsmith. Alonzo Highsmith is the running back from the
from the ninety Alex Heigsmith. Thank you there wasn't a
Lonzo Highsmith. That is not a fictitious player, trust me.
They have obviously TJ. Watt on the other side, which helps.
Cameron Hayward has been there a long time. They have
used some high picks on perimeter players. George Pickens was
the second round pick, Calvin Austin was a fourth round pick.

(08:38):
Darnold Washington the tight end, was a third round pick.
They used a second round pick on Economy Keanu Benton
a couple of years ago. Roman Wilson was a third
round pick. This year. Obviously they go out there, they
paint Patrick Queen. They made Peyton Wilson a third round
pick this year. So they've they used the first round
pick on Joey Porter Junior. Actually that was the first pick,
first pick in the second round, thank you. So they've

(09:00):
spread it around a little bit. But the Steelers are
a team where they kind of created something and then
added the quarterback to it. Right, they've been kind of
circling between quarterbacks, whether it's Picket or justin fields. I'm
trying to remember who was there before Picket that they
ended up that went on in.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Pittsburgh after Roethlisberger.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, it was one guy in between. It was a
veteran I don't remember who it was.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
I think Mason Rudolph.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, maybe Mason Rudolph was the other guy. So they've
kind of bounced between quarterbacks. They only found a veteran
guy and Russell Wilson to hold down the fort. But
this is still a team that's based around their defense,
like these Steeler teams always are. They're gonna win with defense,
and that's what they're trying to do, and they put
a lot of resources into being a physical, run first
type of football team with kind of the quarterback as

(09:45):
he edited feature, which is kind of the polar opposite
of what the Bills have time.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
That's exactly what I was about to say. I mean
the Bills, the offense clearly is the unit that is
carrying them. And for the Steelers, similar to what it's
been like for what they'll have many years now, ten, fifteen,
twenty years. The Steelers are built on their defense, and
they just have so much talent on every level of
their defense. I mean TJ. Watt and Cam Hayward upfront.

(10:12):
Not to mention, you know, you bringing up some of
their draftics, like guys like Keanu Benton, yeap, who was
what a second late second round.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Pick, And well, I didn't even mention the trade for
Minka Fitzpatrick, which was draft capitol. I forgot about that one. Yep,
you know Alex high Smith upfront. Then they added Patrick
Queen in the was it this pass offseason or last offseason? No,
it was this offseason.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
And he has been, you know, the steadying anchor in
the middle of that defense. And then you know Minka Fitzpatrick,
Joey Porter, even guys like Dante Jackson having a solid
year in that defense.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
And they traded for him. That's who they traded. They
got in the Deontay Johnson trade. So yes to the Panthers.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
So this is an example of a team that had
the whole roster sort of built out, and then as
you meant, then they added the quarterback, and in fact,
they added two quarterbacks because they weren't really sure which
one was gonna pull away from the other. And we
saw Justin Fields start the season and he had some success.
Again it was the defense that was really carrying them,

(11:14):
but he led the Steelers to a great early record.
And then Tomlin got sort of caught some slack or
flack for benching fields and going to Russell Wilson once
Russell Wilson was fully healthy from that CAF injury. And
clearly the move is paid off because Russell Wilson has
you know, he's not the Russell Wilson from you know,

(11:35):
a decade ago, five six years ago, but he's been
playing pretty good football. You know, he's taking care of
the ball, getting it out to his playmakers. The connection
between him and George Pickens has really blossomed throughout the season.
Each week it seems to get better and better. And
we saw this past Sunday with George Pickens out how
much of a blow that was to the Steelers' offense

(11:57):
because he really is their most explosive playmaker a wide margin.
But yeah, this was the opposite of the Bills. The
Bills found their quarterback, and once they realized they had
their quarterback, built the rest of the team sort of
around him. The Steelers built the rest of the team
and have now just thrown in that veteran quarterback who

(12:17):
you know, at least since Ben Roethlisberger has been there,
has Russell Wilson has been the best quarterback the Steelers
have had in years now.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, would you consider the Steelers a top tier super
Bowl contender, I would consider them a secondary second tier.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
For me, I'm with a top tier. You have the Chiefs.
The Bills don't listen.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
We're gonna go through them. So you will put the
Steelers in a secondary tier, right, I would put them
in the second tier, close to the top tier, but
not quite at that. That's the second But the Bills
you would have in the top tier.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Correct Bills, I'd have one.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Next team Ravens first and offensive DVA thirteen in defensive DVOA. Obviously,
Harball has been there a very long time, and much
like the Bill they've built everything around Lamar Jackson. But
they have put a lot of resources into their weapons.
Rae Sean Bateman was a first round picks A Flowers
first round pick. Mark Andrews was a guy that they
fit picked I believe on Day two in the draft.

(13:12):
Ronnie Stanley is a guy they invested in a lot
at left tackle. So they have put a lot of
pieces around Lamar Jackson, and some of the pieces on
defense have gotten older and have departed, which is why
I think that group has taken a bit of a
step down. Roqwan Smith not having as good of a
year this year, they have invested a lot of draft
capital in some pass rushers. Adafaiowa a Disa Isaac. It's

(13:36):
always kind of like that, David o'jabo into the second round,
end of the first round, beginning of the second round
type of guys, or they've invested in a lot of
the pass rushers, So that's where they've invested a little bit.
Nate Wiggins a cornerback. They drafted wrote Rosing Garden in
an offensive tackle. So they've spread their resources around too
in terms of where they've invested. But much like with

(13:58):
the Bills, this and you add Derek Henry obviously in
the offseason, which is a big addition as a running back.
But this will all begins, it ends with Lamar Jackson,
and that's how they've built this team. Whether it was
when Lamar first came out when he was more of
a runner and they built their offense around that aspect
of the game. As he's continued to advance as a passer,
they've leaned into that a lot more. We saw that
personally this week with his accurate throws down the field

(14:20):
in his five touchdowns. So this is really for me
a top tier super Bowl contender. I will put them
in the top tier ahead of the Steelers, despite the
fact that the Steelers are ahead of them in the standings.
And it really again, they found that difference maker or
quarterback and everything is built around that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
I kind of view this team similar to how I
look at the Bills. You know, they both found their
quarterbacks in that same draft, and you have.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Top tier for you for top top tier super Bowl
contender or do you put them with the Steelers.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
I would put them at the very top of the
second tier. Okay, fair enough, but yeah, this is another
team that found their quarterback and then built the team
around him and to play to his strengths. I mean
Zay Flowers obviously first round pick last year, one of
those guys where all you have to do is get
the ball in his hands and he is capable of

(15:11):
busting out a seventy yard touchdown catch and run, great
receiver in space. All you need is get him the ball,
which obviously Lamar is more than capable of doing. But
then they also, as you mentioned, have Rashan Bateman, who
has really taken a big step this year as that
deep threat for this Ravens defense. And you know, Lamar's

(15:31):
accuracy I feel like has really improved each year he's
been in the NFL. This year, I mean, he's got
thirty four touchdowns to three interceptions with a sixty eight
percent completion percentage.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Is that good.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
It's pretty good. It's pretty good, and the highest passer
rating in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
H Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Again, this offense was built around Lamar, and similarly to
Josh Allen and the Bills, Lamar's a bill to just
avoid and escape pressure and avoid sacks has helped masks
I think some of the slight weaknesses on the offensive
line for Baltimore, same with the Bills, right, yeah, both

(16:14):
of them. I mean, when you have a quarterback that
is capable of avoiding tacklers and just running the ball
and is more than capable of busting out a fifty
yard touchdown a round at any moment, defenses need to
respect that. And that not only helps your offensive line,
but it helps your whoever is in the backfield, which,
as you mentioned this year, Derrick Henry, who has been

(16:35):
one of the most I think consequential, impactful additions made
by any team in this offseason. I would put him
and Saquon right up there probably wanted to in whatever
order you want to put them in. But Derrick Henry,
who's been one of the best, if not the best
running back in the NFL for years, he's having his
best season of his career this year, and it's because

(16:57):
he's playing with Lamar Jackson. That opens up more running
lanes and holes for him, and he's really taken advantage
of it. I mean even this past week against in
the game against US, you know, obviously Lamar Jackson was
the one that put the team on his back, but
Derrek Henry still averaged like five yards per carry. They
just didn't need him to really do much, so I
think they sort of gave him, I don't want to

(17:17):
call it an off day, but lessened his workload knowing
that they have two games coming up on short weeks.
But he's been amazing. And the reason why I would
say I put the Ravens just in the second tier
instead of the first is because they still have some
struggles on defense. I mean, their run defense is elite.
It is number one in the NFL. We're number two now,

(17:41):
number one in yards per attempt two and total yards allowed.
Pick your stat which every one, but their secondary still
seems to get gashed. Most weeks.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
The better last month, it's been better.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
It's definitely been a little bit better.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
But is that is that because of the opponents or
is that because of them being that much better? They
did it to the Eagles. The offense was struggling a
little bit, so, yes, that was the game. AJ Brown complaints, Yes.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Exactly, and the Eagle still won that game. They just
did it on the ground, so they didn't really need
Jalen Hurts to throw the ball that much. And then
you know, they did do a good job of slowing
down justin Herbert and the Chargers. But that is another
offense that's you know, had its ups and downs. And
then the week before that was the Steelers, who obviously
not the most explosive offense. But yeah, I mean, I mean,

(18:29):
if this defense improved in the secondary, I think they
would be the number one team in the NFL truly,
because I think their offense is right up there one,
you know, top three offense in the league. It's just
the past defense that worries me a little bit, especially
when you start when you get to January and you
have playoff matchups against potentially the rape. I mean the

(18:52):
Chiefs and or the Bills. Those are two quarterbacks that
can gash this secondary. So that's the only reason why
I would have them at Tier two. It would not
shock me in the slightest bit though, if two months
from now we're talking about the Ravens being Super Bowl champions.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
And I think we have to see Lamar do it
against really good defenses in the playoffs too. We've seen
him have some clunkers in the playoffs against good defensive
So I think those are the two things with them.
I'm with you, all right. Well, we'll go through the
Texans a little bit quicker here. High pick as a quarterback.
Their coach has only been there a couple of years.
They're twenty fourth in offensive DVOA this year. A lot
of that has to do with the offensive line, which
has been a struggle for them. They've put a lot

(19:29):
of resources into the receiver position. They paid Nico Collins
on a big extension, relatively high pick. Tang Dell was
an investment. Obviously, Stefan Diggs was a trade for them.
Joe Mixon was a big running back signing for them.
But again that's the teams as offenses being held back
by the offensive line. It's really been a struggle defensively,
believe it or not, their first in defensive DVOA right now.
I think that's been lost a little bit. People don't

(19:51):
realize how good their defense has been. With guys like
Will Anderson, Talen Peatrie, who has been a good safety
for them, Derek Stingley has obviously been fantastic as a
as a corner as a very very high draft pick.
Kamari Lassiter has done a pretty good job as a
rookie for them. So they have some players on that side.
They have invested on that side of the ball in

(20:12):
terms of where they've put some of their draft capital.
But again, this is the team where I think they're
You don't need a great offensive line, but you can't
have a as we've seen here many times. You can't
have a bottom quartile offensive line or bottom you know
five offensive line, however you want to look at it.
That's where it's gonna catch up team. I think it's
really caught off to them with their intibuy to run

(20:33):
consistently this year, really and with some of CJ. Stroud struggles.
I would not put them in any super Bowl contender category.
I would put them in a playoff team, but non
Super Bowl contending category.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, where do I be in? All right? So last
year they obviously the Texans surprised everyone with this playoff run.
They won a playoff game, right, Yeah, Yes, they won
a playoff game. No one was expecting that, considering they
were one of the worst seems in the league the
year before, and c J. Stroud played a very very significant.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Role in that.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
This year, it's kind of been the opposite.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
CJ.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Stroud has not been that great, Like it seems like
he hit that sophomore slump that we sometimes see. He
has not taken the step that I believe the Texans
probably wanted to see him take this year. At the
same time, though, they are first in their division because
of their defense, and I feel like that has been
a very underrated narrative this season, that the defense is

(21:32):
sort of carrying that team. And you mentioned some of
those guys, but the edge rusher duo of daneil Hunter
and Will Anderson both have double digit sacks like that
has played a big role in this team's success, along
with some of the guys in the secondary. Obviously, Derek
Stingley looks like he could be on his way to
an All Pro season. Kamari Lassiter has been a I

(21:54):
don't want to say a surprise rookie, but has played
better than I feel like people were expect him to
play in his first season in the league. And I
know he's struggled the last few games. But I think
a big reason why the Texans are where they are
is the return of Joe Mixon when he came back
from that injury that caused him to miss some time.

(22:16):
When he first came back after suffering, I forgot what
the injury was. I want to say an ankle injury.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, I don't recall.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
But he came back and looked like the best version
of Joe Mixon I think that we've ever seen in
the NFL, and he had some good years with the Bengals.
Now he's slowed down in recent weeks, hasn't really slowed
the Texans down. They've won three of the last four.
Despite you. No, I would say not as great of
performances in the run game, but yeah, this team not

(22:46):
in Tier one or Tier two, so I guess Tier
three would just be in the playoffs. Unfortunately for the Texans.
I feel like this is a team this year that
is headed for a first round exit to whoever does
not end up winning the AFC North because they will
likely get the top wildcard seed. It's not guaranteed the Broncos.

(23:08):
If if the Ravens lose on Sun Saturday, then there
is a chance the Broncos could get the fifth seed
and the Ravens have dropped to six. But I kind
of assuming the Ravens will win this weekend and between
them and the Steelers, one of them will end up
as the five seed. Whoever it is, I feel like
that team will end up beating the Texans.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
I'm within the first round, all right. I'm gonna kind
of zoom past Denver and the Chargers because those are
the other two likely AFC playoff teams. Right now, we
kind of know who the AFC playoff teams are gonna
be at this point. The Bengals have a shot, but
they're two games back with three left to play. It's
gonna be tough for them, but they got a shot.
We know about Joe Burrow obviously, and you know all
the investments they've made on the offensive line. On offense,
the Bengals have taken me, we're gonna make the offense

(23:47):
great and try to figure defense out. The defense has
not been figured out, but the offense has been. So
that's kind of the strategy they've taken. Denver fourth and
defensive DVA twenty first on offense, a lot of good
players on defense. They've put a lot of investment there,
key quarterback on offense, they're trying to grow that a
little bit. Chargers we know about hardball as a coach,
he just got there. The defense somehow is top ten,
ninth at the offense is fifteenth in terms of DVOA.

(24:10):
So those teams, again, I put all three of those
teams the Texans. Again, if you want to include the Bengals, fine,
Denver and the Chargers. Put them all into that playoff category,
but not contender category. But again I think you're looking
at with the Chargers, especially coach quarterback Denver. Obviously Sean
Payton's a great coach. How important that is when you
look at those two teams, and then the Bengals you

(24:31):
have the quarterback with Joe Burrow. So you're seeing some
very consistent, you know, carry through. Let's get to the
Chiefs very quickly. So despite the fact that they only
have one loss, they're the only team that is that
does not have one side of the ball inside of
their of the top nine in DVOA, so they're tenth
on offense and they're eleventh on defense. So they're there,

(24:53):
but they're not elite in either one of those spots,
and you know, top quartile type of thing. But they're good. Obviously,
Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes. It's the same combination coach,
quarterback right, which is very important, really good defensive coordinator
see Spagnolo. They've an elite pass rusher and Chris Jones.
They've tried to figure things out in the secondary. That's
where they've kind of gotten a little bit cheap right
where they ended up trading thank you, Ladarius Ne in

(25:16):
the offseason, so he's not there. They've kind of tried
to make do there. They've drafted some players back there.
They've had to go a little bit cheap in terms
of wide receiver right. They let Tyreek kicko, but they
did use some high draft picks on guys like Xavier Worthy,
Travis Kelse. Obviously they're paying at the ten M positions.
Has been there for a long time, but look, they've
also tried to use the draft on the offensive line,

(25:40):
and while they have some good players, they're one of
their left tackle positions a real question mark right now
that could be an achilles heel for them. They signed
Jordan Humphries to be a potential, you know, veteran tackle
for them, but has not worked so far, but they're
working on I think they drew Tuney out there at
that left tackle in the game against the Browns this
past week. They didn't move him outside against Miles Garrett.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
Luck so.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
They were top Super Bowl contender, but their point differential
and the fact that they're winning all these close games
is reflected I think in the overall strength of what their.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Roster looks like. Yeah, I mean, I feel like with
this Chiefs team, it's a little different obviously because they're
back to back Super Bowl champions, but it kind of
reminds me just in the terms of all the close
games they've had, reminds me of the Vikings team from
two years ago. Yeah, I agree that where almost every
single win was a one possession game, came down to

(26:29):
the wire. You know, that's all great if you end
up winning those games in the regular season, but chances
are it's gonna catch up to you eventually if you
keep on playing finding yourself in these one possession close games.
And you, obviously, if you're the Chiefs, you just don't
want that happening come playoff time, which they're still in
good position to get the number one seed. Obviously, Patrick

(26:50):
Mahomes is a little banged up now. He might miss
Saturday's game. They have a short week, he might miss
this week's game. It doesn't sound like the injury is
too serious.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Minor high ankle or less severe high ankle sprain. However,
we want to turn that.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah, so I would say I probably don't expect him
to play this weekend. It wouldn't shock me if he
is then active though for their Christmas Day game, which
a week from tomorrow. Is kind of crazy, but yeah,
this Chiefs team, Patrick Mahomes is Patrick Mahomes. He's capable of,
you know, creating magic every single time he touches the ball.

(27:26):
But their defense is really I feel like, carried the
load this year, and some of that has been just
the injuries that the Chiefs have suffered on offense this year.
I mean just talking about the playmakers. Hollywood Brown hasn't
suited up all season, and he looks like he just
returned to practice. It looks like he could play this
week or next week. But they've gotten to whatever. Their

(27:46):
record is twelve and one, thirteen to one without having
him all season. They lost Rashie Rice in Week four,
and the first three weeks of the season, Roshie Rice
was playing like a top five wide receiver in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
As dual Roshie Rice Fantasy owners year, we can attest to.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
That that one was off. So he's been gone since
the beginning of Week four. They lost Isaiah Pachecko for
over half the year. Now he's back, but he does
not look like his you know, normal self. Apparently he
had like a metal rod inserted into his leg and
it takes some time, I feel like, to kind of
get used to having that in your leg. I mean

(28:21):
Tony Pollard, I believe, suffered a similar injury. And then
last year with the Cowboys did not look good the
entire season.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, it took a long time fromim to get back.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
This year has looked a lot better, but again that's
we're talking about potentially the next season for Pacheco. So
they've dealt with so many injuries and as you mentioned,
also a lot of injuries on the offensive line. I mean,
this has been a popular joke on Twitter that the
Chiefs just you know, underneath Arrowhead Stadium or doing some
voodoo magic to somehow squeak out all of these close victories.

(28:52):
And it seems to happen in a crazy way each
and every week. At the same time, when you have
Patrick Mahomes who's on his way to being the greatest
quarterback ever, and Andy Reid, who's already in the conversation
for one of the best coaches of all time. You
have that combination with Spags and the defense that they have,
and this team is going to be, assuming everyone says healthy,

(29:14):
very dangerous, and obviously one of the Super Bowl favorites
no matter what.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
They're in top tier as well. All right, let's go
to the NFC. I want to pick up the pace
here a little bit. Let's start in the NFC East
with the Philadelphia Eagles, ninth in offensive DVOA, third in
defensive DVOA. And look, we know where they've spent their money, right,
two top first round pick wide receivers they have obviously
they acquired AJ Brown and a trade originally a first
round pick Saquon Barkley, a big top of the market

(29:40):
for agent running back. All the draft picks and money
they put in the offensive line, paying jaywhen Hurts also
a second round pick, right, yes, correct, And then on
defense a lot of the resources go up front, though
last year they used the first round the second round
pick on the corners, so they have a lot of
good players. They the way they use the South cap

(30:00):
is unique in terms of pushing money back. They very
much like the Saints, they do it in a more
creative way. But I think the Eagles right now for me,
are a legitimate top tier Super Bowl contender. For me,
I would I would almost think with all the injuries
on the Lions, I would almost call them a favorite
right now to come out of the NFC, which pains
me to say it, but I think it's probably true.

(30:20):
And again, you have a team that's built a little
bit different, right I don't. I wouldn't consider Jalen Hurt's
a top five quarterback. I would consider the more of
like a top twelve type of quarterback, right, something like that,
But really good upfront on both sides of the ball,
Elite playmakers outside and an elite running back. So that's
kind of how the Eagles have have built their thing,
which is a little bit different. We followed them closely

(30:42):
obviously here we know where they've used their resources in
the draft, where they've always you know, it's a lot
of upfront stuff, defensive line, offensive line, things like that.
So they've built things right way down there. They got
a really really good football team.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Yeah, I mean the offense I feel like has stayed
pretty much the same other than the addition of Saquon Barklay. Obviously,
there have been some slight changes to the offensive line
with you know, Jason Kelce retiring, some injuries they've had
throughout the season, but for the most part, this is
the same defense that they've had, I mean, the same
offense that they've had for the last couple of seasons,

(31:14):
at least again with Sekon Barkley being added, and he's
been amazing for them. I mentioned that earlier. Don't need
to go into that. But what's impressed me about the
Egos this year, and it pains me to say this,
is that they went from having one of the worst
defenses in the NFL last year to the number one
defense this year in terms of yards and points allowed,

(31:34):
the number one scoring defense and the number one defense
in terms of least amount of yards allowed on the year.
And a big, big part of that, as you briefly mentioned,
was the additions that they made in the draft this
past year in the secondary.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
I think, and I'm with you, I think a bigger
part was was Vicdangil coming And to be honest with you.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, I think Vic Fangio was able to take all
of the talented pieces they had and mesh it all together.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Is up fronts form, it looks like last year's team,
like the front set up front?

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Yeah, upfront, Yeah, I mean, except you lost Fletcher Cox
correct who has obviously been the stallwart there.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
And now Brandon Grahams has been playing too. He's out
for the year. So there's two year bets.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
That a there. Now. Jalen Carter taking a big step
has played a big role in their success upfront, But
it really comes down to the performance of the two rookies,
Quinnon Mitchell and Cooper Degen. They have been outstanding and
have led to the Eagles having the number one passing
defense in the NFL. Again, this was a unit that
last year could not stop anybody. And now this year

(32:36):
the number one unit in terms of points, yards, passing yards.
I mean pick a number, and they're towards the top.
It's crazy big. You know, kudos to Howie Roseman for
how he's drafted. You know a lot of those defensive
draft picks he's had the last couple of years have
really paid off. And you know, another underrated offseason signing

(32:58):
they had, Zach Bond has been playing out of his minds,
been great for them, easily the best season he's had
in the NFL, and unfortunately it's come when he signed
with the Eagles. But yeah, the offense is great on Philadelphia.
They obviously have so many talented players on offense, but
the reason that they are twelve and two and a
legitimate Super Bowl contender this year is because of how

(33:19):
good their defense is.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
All right, Lions, I would put them a in the
top tier as well. So I think our top tier
for Super Bowl contenders is probably when Wilson and then
going to be Bill's Chiefs Eagles Lions.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Do you think that's fair? Yes, and I'd probably put
them in that order as well. Okay, now, the Lions
with all the.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Injuries might put I might put the Eagles ahead of
the Chiefs. To be honest with you, I might, I might.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
I wouldn't blame you.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
So Detroit fourth and offensive DVOA, fifth in defensive DVA.
That defensive DVOWA is going to drop though, because I
have not accounted them. But I feel like seven or
eight major injuries on defense. I mean, it's that's been crazy.
How they've been able to maintain it is a credit
to Aaron Glenn and what a great job he's done
his defensive couner. That dude's gonna be an NFL head
coach next year. Yep, darned near convinced of it. A

(34:03):
good personality to tough guy, former player, someone's gonna want
to hire him as their head coach around the league
with as many openings as is probably gonna be around
the NFL. So look, we know what the Eagle. We
know they've done. They got Jared Goff in that trade
and a couple first round picks to Boot to trade
for Matthew Stafford. They turned those first round picks into
weapons outside. I'm on ross Saint Brown hit on a

(34:25):
mid round pick, that's huge. Man hitting on those mid
round picks. Penney Sewul the big offensive tackle. We know
about the rest of their offensive line, really good tailor
Decker was a high pick. And then on defense, look
Aiden Hutchinson first overall not second overall selection, right after
Trayvon Walker. And they've made it work in the back end.
They haven't spent a ton of high picks on their
corners in safeties, but they've made it work. In fact,

(34:47):
the one Ohio State corner that they picked in the
top five fizzled out. I can't his name doesn't come
to mind for me right now. Who is the top
Who is the Ohowse State corner that they picked in
the top five. It was like three years ago that
fizzled out. I will look that up. But look, they've
done a good job. But they're very much Yeah, Jeff
coulda thank you. It's very much an offensive base football
team right now with all their injuries on defense, but

(35:07):
their offense is it's elite. It's really really good. And
you know, they have a very unique head coaching Dan
Campbell and how he goes about things, which the players like.
And they're a really good team. But again, they've they've
built well through the draft. They got a good head coach,
a good quarterback again, I put him in that Jalen
Hurt's top twelve quarterback type of area. And they're a

(35:30):
good football team and they are once again a top
top tier contender.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Yeah. So when it comes to the offense, what I
think they did is they solidified, and solidified doesn't even
do it justice. They built an elite offensive line, Yes, elite,
and that is what has led to Jared Goff looking
like a version of Jared Goff that we just never
really saw with the Rams. I mean, he had the
one good year where the Rams made the Super Bowl

(35:54):
with Sean McVay, of course, but he's been doing it
just consistently now way more looks elite and it's gotten
the most out of the playmakers as well. I mean,
amnaa Saint Brown hitting on that fifth round pick obviously
was a game changer for them, giving you if you
get a top at the very least a top five
wide receiver and on a fifth round pick, that's obviously

(36:16):
going to help transform your offense.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
And you go through all these teams, by the way,
almost all of them have one or two mid round
picks that have really turned into awesome players, and that's
a big part of trying to figure out a way
to build a team really is.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yeah, for sure, but yeah, I mean this offensive line
turned David Montgomery into again another version of David Montgomery
that we just never saw with the Chicago Bears. And
unfortunately he just hurt himself on Sunday and is now
out for the remainder of the season. And that I
feel like that's been the first big blow that the
offense of the Lions has really taken this season. The

(36:52):
defense has been decimated. Have they said he's out for
the air Montgomery, Yeah, coach Dan Campbell announced yesterday. Jeez,
but yeah, the defense of the Lions, It's insane how
decimated a unit has been. I've never, off the top
of my head, can't think of a top team that
has suffered this many injuries on one side of the ball.
I mean, you mentioned Aden Hutchinson. He's been out since

(37:14):
the first month of the season, since like Week six
or something.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, whenever they played Dallas, right, he arsel of the
Dallas game.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, And he actually did mention, I think it was
yesterday that if the Lions can make it to the
Super Bowl, he will be playing in that Super Bowl game,
but obviously they need to get there first.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
You're a big fan of the Taylor Lautner podcast that
he made that announcement on now, I guess.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
But even yesterday, in addition to David Montgomery, Dan Campbell
announced that Alee McNeil out for the season, Carlton Davis
is out indefinitely, out for like six weeks. And they've
already dealt with so many other injuries, and especially on
their defensive line. I mean, the first month or two
months of the season, the Lions defense looked great. They
were playing like a top ten unit, and they've just

(38:01):
been so decimated by injuries. I agree, it is very
impressive that Aaron Glenn is, you know sit Besides this
past Sunday, which again we knew was going to be
a shootout against the Bills. They gave up a lot
of points in a lot of yards, but take that
one game out and even with the injuries, this unit
has been fantastic. Aaron Glenn will definitely be a head coach.

(38:21):
I wouldn't be surprised if he's head coaching the team
that the Giants share met Lefe Stadium with next year. Look,
you could fake Jets.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
You could fake it and hide it on defensive personnel.
When you go up against a Josh Allen, it's hard
to take it and hide it with your guys up there.
All right, the other two teams in the NFC, I
would put them in the NFC North. I put them
at into the second tier super Bowl contenders, with the Steelers,
the Vikings and the Packers. I'll tell you what. The
Vikings are really trying hard to convince me that I
should take them more seriously and put them in the

(38:50):
second in the first tier, to be honest with you,
but I put them both in the second tier Vikings
or thirteenth offensive DVOA second defensive DVOA. Packers are third
and eighth. So both those teams in terms of their
rankings or right there with some of these really good teams.
And look, they're dangerous. You know, both of them can throw,
both of them can run. I should have mentioned Detroit
by the way, they've used premium picks on non premium positions,

(39:11):
which a lot of the other teams haven't done. Running
back in Gibbs linebacker, and Campbell safety and Brian Branch.
They've all worked out, they've all worked out. So that's
again and I think when we get to the end
of this and I'll put the pedal to the medal
here a little bit. Look the Vikings bringing a quarterback
that's a reclamation project in Sam Donald. They had two
first round wide receivers in Jefferson and Addison. Defensively, that's

(39:31):
the thing where they've kind of tried to make it work.
And just Brian Flores, another guy who's gonna be up
for head coaching jobs this offseason, has done a masterful
job for the Packers. It's been a youth movement. Like
they haven't spent a ton of money on one individual
guy except for Jordan Love and that just happened right Like,
they've young wide receivers. On defense, they a bunch of
young defensive linemen. They'ven't broken the bank. I don't think
on any non quarterback player on the roster yet that

(39:53):
I can remember, unless I'm forgetting someone. Maybe their corner
that has hurt that didn't play this past week. Who's
their top corner.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
In Green Bay?

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, Jerry, Yeah, they've paid him. He's the one guy
that they've paid. And Kenny Clark, I think has probably
gotten a decent amount of money for them as well,
But other than that, they've really relied on young, drafted
guys and they paid David McKinnon the offseason obviously at
the safety position top of the market, So that's where
those guys are for me. Tampa and the Rams, I'll
put them in the playoff non contender categories, though Tampa

(40:23):
is dangerous.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Look out for Tampa.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Seventh offensive Dvoa seventeenth on defense. Rams are eighth on offense,
eighteenth on defense. Those teams are kind of in that
same category, but I'd still I would be surprised if
either Tampa, the Rams, and Wan throw the Seahawks into
this too. US they have the chance to make it
still with the Cardinals whatever, I don't think those teams
are gonna make the Super Bowl. Tampa is probably on
the top of that playoff non contender tier for me.

(40:46):
They're the closest for me. But you know, they have
defined weaknesses that I think are gonna be hard to overcome.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, I'm gonna just go through these last four pretty quickly.
Through vice. I think the biggest strength, and it's not
even close for this Vikings team, is their coaching between
Kevin O'Connell on offense, what he's done to that entire unit. Obviously,
it helps when you have someone like Justin Jefferson and
a second receiver like Jordan Addison, but Aaron Jones is

(41:16):
having one of his best seasons this year. He's looked amazing.
Sam Darnold looks like a different quarterback back there. So
major kudos to Kevin O'Connell and what he's done to
that Vikings offense. And then Brian Flores on the defense
has been nothing short of spectacular. How he's transformed that unit.
I mean, the Vikings defense has been one of the

(41:37):
worst in the league for the last couple of seasons,
and now he's transformed them to one of the best
in the NFL. Now they're not perfect, they have some weaknesses,
mostly in the secondary, but that defensive front and the
way he just disguises, blitzes and disguises his different looks.
It's Week fifteen and last night they just played Week fifteen.

(41:57):
Teams still can't figure it out, and I don't think
that's going to change come playoff time. I do think
the Vikings are a dangerous squad. I don't think any
team that wins the division. And this is assuming Detroit
ends up winning the division. In Minnesota's a wildcard team.
I don't think any of those division winners want to
face Minnesota in the first round because that is probably
going to be the toughest matchup in the first round

(42:18):
unless in the AFC, unless the Ravens end up.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah, and by the way, the Packers aren't much easier
than them either.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
By the way, No, the Packers again also great and
we saw them Sunday night just completely shut down the
Seahawks who have been playing well all season. Gino Smith
has been playing pretty you know, pretty good football.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
I feel bad for those NFC South and NFC West
division winners. It's not going to go well for them
against those two NFC North teams in the first round.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, it's really the NFC North, And we talked about
this before the season started that we thought that's easily
the three teams in the NFC North to make the
division make the playoffs, and it's certainly heading that way.
Packers and Vikings are both legitimate threats to the NFC.
If I'm the Eagles or Lions, I do not want
to face either one of those teams, regardless of the

(43:03):
round and then you know, the Rams Seahawks. I would
put those teams in sort of like the I guess
like frisky categories, Like I wouldn't be surprised that they
could pull off an upset in the playoffs. I mean,
we saw the Rams almost beat the Lions in the
playoffs last year.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Well, Stafford and Baker have shown the ability to be
just really so good in the game that they can
figure out a way to win one.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah, And with Tampa their defense has played a lot
better recently, and I think that's kind of flown under
the radar because of the great season Bakers having and
how Mike Evans has been you know, coming on these
last couple of weeks, the run game with Bucky Irving
or a Shad White, But the Tampa Bay defense has,
you know, has was a huge weakness for them the
first half of the season. They have looked a lot

(43:46):
better lately, so that, Yeah, Tampa Bay is gonna win
the NFC South. At this point going the season, I
thought there's no way the Falcons would lose that, but
it's sure heading that way. NFC West. I'm interested to
see how that ends up playing out. It's so close
right now, all four teams are still in the running
and it's gonna it's gonna be interesting to see how

(44:08):
that plays out these last final three years.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
All right, So in summary, this is how I'm kind
of looking at this, all right, these teams have all
built in very different ways. Okay, head coaches. We have
offensive head coaches, the Andy Reids guys like that. You
have defensive head coaches, the Mike Tomlins. You know, Jim
Harbaugh is a John Harbor rather, No, Jim Harbaugh is
the special teams coach, right, So you you don't have

(44:30):
to have a specialty in offense or defense like you
can build. Sean mcdermot's a defensive head coach.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Right.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
So in that up in that top tier, you have
offensive coaches, you have defensive coaches, and you have a
special teams coach. All in that, you know, top or
the Ravens top of that second tier. So it has
to but you have to have a good coach and
hopefully ones that's there for a while that has established themselves.
It's hard to be a first time coach and be
young in your coaching career and be part of a
good team. Sean Payton, Andy Reid, who ELSEO my Harbaugh,

(44:59):
you know, go through the guys in that top tier.
You know, Campbell's been at it a while now. It's
it's hard to have a coach that's just starting be
that super contender. You've got to have a top twelve quarterback.
Doesn't have to be top five quarterback, but you got
to have like a top third, right, but the top
top third of the league. You gotta find your quarterback
in that group. However you do it. Do you really

(45:20):
want to be a true contender? Do you find the
occasional guys that don't fit into that category? Sure, but
it's very very hard to do. It's very hard to do.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
So.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Can't have a bad offensive line. You don't need a
dominant one, but that can hold you back. You know,
you'd like to have a top twenty, top fifteen if
you could.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I was gonna say, at the very least middle of
the pack. Yes, at the very least.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Don't be in the bottom quartile, right, don't ideally don't
be in the bottom third. If you could be like
under twenty, like one through nineteen, somewhere in that area, great,
I think you can survive with that and you can
be okay, You know, a lot of these teams don't
have great offensive lines, but as long as it's not
a sive, you're okay. You have to have at least

(46:02):
one elite weapon, right, preferably a wide receiver. All these
you know, look at these teams. I'm on our same brown.
The only teams that can get away with not having
an elite wide receivers are the ones with the elite
top three quarterbacks, right. You look at our groups, which
are the teams that don't have the elite wide receivers.
The Bills, Josh Allen, the Ravens, Lamar Jackson, the Chiefs

(46:24):
Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
And I guess the Steelers as well.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yeah, but we didn't have them in like the top ten.
But yeah, correct, they do not have a top tier guy.
You know, you look at these other teams. Vikings Augly
have two of them, the way Jordan Addison's been playing
all right, Eagles have two of them, The Rams have two,
coopan Nicola and Cooper cup awesome. The the Green Bay
Packers kind of do it by committee. They don't have

(46:47):
one dominant guy. So that's one team that maybe is
a little bit different than the others. The lines of
I'm Brown. So if you're not gonna have that top
three quarterback and you're just gonna have, like, you know,
the ninth or tenth best quarterback, you better have the
elite weapon to help that eighth or ninth best quarterback
look like a top quarterback.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Like Tampa Bay with Mike Evans with Baker Mayfield.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Perfect example. So and then finally on defense, you have
to be able to hold your water up front rushing
the passer because eventually, in big spots, in two minute drills,
in close games, that pass rush is what's going to
win games for you. Even go back to the Patriots
losing to the Eagles, right, what finally knocked Tom Brading
the Patriots out. It was Brandon Graham getting the sack

(47:27):
in the strip, right, So eventually you have to have
a pass rush that gets you home. So to me,
that's what you look at as the things that are
important as you build the team, and I think the
lessons the Giants can take as they move forward here
as they try to figure out how to get into
one of these categories of this team in terms of
what's important. So again, you have to have all these
but there are some things that you can't have. Some

(47:48):
things are musts, and I think those are the things
that are really really important if you want to be
a contnging team coaching top twelve quarterback can't be bad
on the on line, have to have one elite weapon,
and you have to be able to rush the passer.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
The only thing I will add, and I'll say, I
look at this similarly to the can't be a bad
offensive line. Yes, one is you can't be awful in
run defense.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
That's fair.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
You have to be at least middle of the pack.
You can't be like a bottom five run defense because
you could have the best offense in the league. But
if your defense cannot stop the run, opponents are gonna
keep your offense off of the field by just running
on you all game, and then your offense isn't gonna
be able to go out there as often as you
want to score those points. I think there has to
be a toughness quota to your team, and that's something

(48:33):
that you can't That starts up top quantify. I feel
like that starts with your coach.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
I think that's part of it, right. I think there
has to be a toughness quota. You're gonna run into
a bad weather game in January, right, where you just
have to be able to win the battle of physicality, right,
So I think i'll throw that in there too. That's
something that's tough to quantify. But you think of the Steelers,
you think of the Ravens, even the Chiefs, right, the Eagles.
These are teams where you go play them, you're gonna

(48:59):
fiel the next day. Ravens, they're gonna beat you up, right.
So I think those are all important things. I know
that went longer than we kind of wanted to, folks,
but I thought it's kind of educational as we take
a bigger picture. Look at the Giants here in terms
of how they're gonna get better. Look, the Giants have
checked some of the boxes on these right a little
bit right pass rush wise, I think they're in good shape.
Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence. I think they're in good shape
in that spot. You hope the league neighbors can be

(49:19):
that elite weapon outside tyrone, trace can be a secondary
guys or running back, you know, the offensive one is
taking steps. I don't think they're there yet in the
category we're talking about, I.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Would say, but they get close before Andrew Thomas went down.
They were in that cat.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
They were right on the verge.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
They were in that you know, middle of the pack,
which is again, is all you really need if we
have some of these.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Other things, so that that's the type of stuff you
have to figure out here and moving forward. But I
thought it would be a good exercise to do, and
we could do more as we get into the playoffs,
as you know what teams are in there and we
start watching them week the week. Things we can kind
of check boxes on. But I think those are some
of the really important things to keep an eye on
as you move forward here. All right, I know that
took longer than we thought. We'll try to squeeze in
a few calls here as in the last ten minutes.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Let's go to Scott, New mex real quick. Let's up quick. Sorry.
Just as we were doing that exercise, NFL announced Giants
Colts was an official finally official Sunday one o'clock into
flexed into it. Yeah, not this this week. The Giants
are in Atlanta one o'clock Sunday next week. There was
a chance it could have been flexed to Saturday. It
is on Sunday one o'clock home Met Life Stadium finale.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Thank you for that, Scott, New Mexico, Scott, what's going.

Speaker 4 (50:22):
On pal Hi, guys, that was a great analysis.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Thank you for holding Scott. I apologize for making you
stand that long.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
I was fascinated by all the comments that you were making.
One of the things about Buffalo though, Josh Allen's been
in ten playoff games and he's only going to the
championship game once. So I'm always a little hesitant. Can
he do it in the playoffs?

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Remember, Scott, it is a team game. And he went
down and he drove the Bills down against the Chiefs
for a game winning touchdown with what twelve seconds left?
How many seconds was left in that game? Something like that,
whatever it was, and then the Chiefs make those two
ridiculous plays. So I have trouble putting something like that
on Josh Allen. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
I'm not putting on Josh Allen. I'm just saying this
is what I'm looking at, and so I'm always a
little hesitanting. I always like to look at who the
best running backs are, which this year is Dereck Henry
and Saiquon and those are the two teams, I think Baltimore,
although I can't bet against Kansas City. There's just no

(51:26):
way as long as Mahomes is there.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Now against Scott, we talked about this. My theory still
is build the team, become good. Then you add the
running back, right, so you get to the level, and
then the running back is like the final spice you
put in the sauce. It just kind of make it perfect,
you know what I mean? Right, Paul's on here. Someone
has to make the Italian food analogies.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
So I'm not going to talk about the Baltimore game
at all, although I like the Ravens as a potential
getting to the playoffs and going a little further for turies,
as I mentioned earlier, like teams that have a great
running back, and obviously they do. But I wanna talk
about a little bit about the Giants and the pet
peeve I have. Sure there's there's a lot of talk about,

(52:09):
you know, having the team and having a one score differential,
and people are sort of saying that's a good thing,
and I sort of look at it the opposite way.
I look at it as an indictment of the team,
sort of like a long distance runner, a marathon runner
that runs all the way to the finish line falls
on his keyster and somebody else wins the race. So

(52:31):
I don't look at it as a positive. I I
think it's a negative. Uh the way I'm interpreting it.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (52:37):
Other people are going to look at it a different way.
But in regards to the giants themselves, UH, I have
two questions, and I know your short on times, don't
try to speed this up. UH. The question I have
is what can the giants expect from the last three
games that they have uh? And then secondarily expecting what way? Well,

(53:01):
I don't think a lot of the players were looking
at for the last three games. They're going to be
there next year, cause each year rosters change. So what
are the giants expecting from the guys like uh Thibodeau? Uh,
the guys like Brian Burns? Is there a player here
and there they think will make the team. What are

(53:23):
they specifically looking at? Uh? I mean like Wando Robinson,
for example, I think has about seventy catches. That may
be wrong, but he's only averaging about seven yards per
reception and that has to improve. I think. So how
do they look at that? How do they look at
Jalen Hyatt, Uh, will Darius Slayton be there next year?

(53:44):
Those are the things I was looking at cause obviously
you wanna have good receivers. We know Milieu Neighbors is.
And the second question I have is, I know it's
gonna be an evaluation process, but who does the evaluation
on Brian Dable. It can't be Joshan, So who does
he do a self evaluation or does somebody outside say okay,

(54:05):
we plipped at his record, whether they keep him or
not keeping somebody else do an evaluation on him. So
I was wondering how that is going to manifest itself.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Yeah, I don't know what, Thank you, Scott. Yeah, I
don't know exactly how that process is going to go,
but I imagine, you know, Joe Shane's opinion is going
to be included in that, and then obviously you have
the Maritish families and that's where that decision is going
to get made ultimately.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Yeah, I'm with you, that's simple. And the first one, yeah,
real quick.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
And by the way, he mentioned all these guys that
have been around, all these guys in the secondary on
the defensive line, that practice squad players, they're playing rightful
contracts next year. Man, I think that's why we're getting
so much good effort on that side of the ball.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
Yeah, I mean, you know what you expect these last
three games is you want to see who's going to
go out there and try to help this team win
a football game, Go out there and give one hundred
and ten percent in a game that frankly doesn't mean
much other than you know, pride. Who's going to go
out there and put their best effort out there and
try to help this team win the game. I mean,

(55:03):
I think it was Joe Burrow spoke about this like
a week or two ago when asked about the same thing,
because the Bengals pretty much, I mean they have a
small playoff chance, but long shot, and he said, like,
we want to see who's going to go out there
and give it their all and show their A plus
effort despite these games maybe not having as much meaning
as they did a month or two ago. And obviously

(55:25):
that goes for the Giants too. I mean, we've seen
the last two weeks a lot of players, some unherlded
players step up in big ways. That's what you want
to see and expect in these last three games because
obviously Giants are eliminated from the playoffs. There's nothing to
play for other than pride and potential jobs next year,
you know, making the roster next year. And as John

(55:48):
just mentioned, there are so many young players, guys that
weren't even on the fifty three men roster to start
the year. They are not only on the roster now,
but playing significant time. These guys are playing fur their
NFL futures, and you want to see guys like that
go out there and have strong performances and show that, hey,
we should be a part of this next year. We

(56:09):
want to stick around and be a part of building
this to where the you know, the program wants to
eventually get to.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Yeah, one hundred percent, I'm with you on that. And look,
a lot of these guys are playing for futures contracts.
They're trying to figure out if the other team is
going to sign them, and you know, the Giants could
bring him back too. You know, we don't know what
this is gonna look like in the offseason, but look,
these guys, whenever you're out there putting football on tape,
especially if your guy that other teams aren't that familiar

(56:36):
with you might just be deep on their you know,
pro personnel depth chart when you other guys have these
pro personnel lists are looking for future contracts. So these
guys are playing to show what they can do. And like,
you know, even a guy like you know, if Jalen
Hyatt gets some more snaps, what can he show to
earn a bigger role next year? Evan Neil, you know,
he's a guy that is trying to show that he
could start to right tackle. Another game against the last

(56:56):
week against the Ravens where pass protection only one pressure allowed.
He actually, you know, except for that Dallas game, which
was a real clunker for him, he's been okay since
since he's been in the lap. Does that mean you
chalk him in as your starter next year? No, I'm
not saying that. But he's showing progress, he's showing improvement.
Maybe he's shown enough for on maybe we consider him
a guard next year. Who knows what that conversation looks like.
But a guy like him, he's trying to earn his

(57:19):
way into a role next year, whatever that might be.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Yeah, I mean another player, Dan Belton, Jason Pinnock is
about to be a free agent, which means other than
Tyler Nuban, there's another starting safety position up for grabs.
We don't know if Pinnock will be back or not.
Dane Belton, you know, had his in his first opportunity
this pass Sunday led the team in tackles, like was
all over the field. It wasn't a perfect performance, but

(57:43):
pretty pretty good game from Dane Belton. What can he
show in these last three games? Can he show enough
where in the offseason The Giants front office decides we
feel comfortable with Dane Belton playing significant snaps at the
safety position next year next to Tyler Nuban's guys like
I mean.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
John's are going to pick hind the draft. He can
have a lot of free agency.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
Money, a lot of cap space.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Who on this team can show all right, you don't
need to add a guy at this spot because I'm.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Here and a good example of that, I feel like,
and he's kind of done this all season, but especially
the last two weeks, Mike and McFadden has shown so much,
especially with Bobby Ocake out these last two games, Mike
has put you know, the defense sort of on his
back in a way. I mean in the Saints game,
he was fantastic. That was the best game of his
young NFL career. He's you know, if he continues to

(58:32):
show this, I'm assuming the Giants would have plenty of
confidence going in next year with him and Bobby being
the two middle linebackers. Again. That's just one example of
a guy who throughout the season, in a season that
has you know, drift, fallen up a part and drifted
away from where you know, the hope and expectations were
earlier in the year, has continued to play well and

(58:53):
shown that he wants to and should be a part
of this team's future. And there are examples like that
throughout the roster at different positions, to various levels. But
that's what you want to see these last three games.
You want to see guys still going out there giving
it one hundred percent, you know, try to win the
games and even if you're not winning, keep these games close,
don't get blown out. That's what you want to see

(59:15):
in these last few weeks.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I love to see Deanta Benky's get back on the
field and see what he could do the final three games.
You know, quidto Flot's play I think has shown me
enough this year. I feel good about him, but can
you stay healthy? That's something that's plagued them since he's
gotten to the league. Is the guy that can stay
on the field. You remember he got Draft week. There's
a big topic of the conversation with him. One hundred
and seventy pounds soaking wet right at that size. Can
you stay healthy long term? He has not been able

(59:37):
to do that so far. Can he get back on
the field and continue to play? All those types of
things are things we can keep an eye on here
as we move forward. Sidetack, this is what my men
appreciate it. Dude, Tomorrow, O'Hara and Burke with you right
here on Big Blue Kickoff Live. Then our normal schedule
rest of the week. It'll be Sidetack and I on Thursday,
and then it'll be a Da Tino in Sidetack on Friday.
And then for the holiday schedule, guys, we're not doing

(59:58):
a show on Christmas Eve. Pierson be me, he said, John,
I really want to come in on Christmas Eve and
do a show. That's where I want to spend my
Christmas exactly. Conversation went you and Matt and me, you know,
snuggling up next to a fire and just doing a
Christmas eve BBK, some eggnog. That's that's what he wanted, folks,
So just so you know, he was on your side,

(01:00:18):
but I decided not to do it. So no, no
show on Christmas, even Christmas Day, and then nothing on
New Year's Day the following week. But we should have
shows on the other days over this over the course
of those two weeks. Oh and there was a new
Huddle thank you. Back way early in the year, Paul
and I did an interview with two separate interviews with

(01:00:40):
Keith Hamilton, the Hammer. We really haven't had on our
platforms much at all. He was a really good giant
in the late nineties early two thousands. And then oh
Suman Euro we talked to him at the FanFest or
you know, we've been holding this. We're finally releasing it.
So go check that out. That's on your Giants Huddle
podcast favorite podcast platform, giants dot com, slash podcast, Giants app.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Go check that out and the video for that puddle
will be up very shortly on giants dot Com.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
I see it on it. He's not lying. I see
it up on his computer right for the graphic, So
go check that out. Folks, thanks for being with us
on Big Blue Kick a if I presented by cataly
Like the official luxury vehicle the Giants. We'll see it tomorrow,
twelve thirty