March 24, 2025 • 50 mins
Ep. 863 - It started with Josh Sweat. It continued with Dalvin Tomlinson. And let’s not forget about the return of Baron Browning. The Cardinals made the defensive front a priority this offseason. And for good reason, based on last season. Craig Grialou and Paul Calvisi discuss the investment the team has made at both defensive line and outside linebacker. That dovetails into a conversation about what to do with the 16th pick. Might the Cardinals bypass the defensive front with their first-round draft pick? Look to select a cornerback? What about an offensive lineman? The guys have fun with the latest round of mock drafts, because it is after all a Mock Draft Monday.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
So just how much better is the Cardinals defensive front
Welcome bird Gang on today's show, Paul calvc joins me,
of course, we won't really know the answer to that
until the regular season, but that's certainly not stopping people
like us from speculating, predicting. I mean, it has to
be better, right. Also, it is a mock draft Monday
at Cardinals Cover two, episode eight sixty three, and it
(00:26):
starts now.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Bud to Baker, what Heart?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
What rent?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals
dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
He's at the ten half of five. He's it again,
some more hurry magic.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Whoa, here's Craigcrioler.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So a question for you, Paul, and no, I'm not
going to ask how your bracket is because quite frankly,
it's much like fantasy.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Football, no one cares a much bracket. That's true my
golf game, you know the bracket, there's certain things nobody
cares about. And by the way, in the future, based
on this question, I might require all questions to be
pre screen, pre podcast, so we'll see how this goes.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Okay, well, there's the question, do you know what happens
one month from today?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
One month?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And because I know you're so good with dates, let
me just let you know this. So we speak here.
It is Monday, March twenty fourth.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
See, I take it one podcast at a time, that
is one deadline at a time. I'm definitely that guy.
But I would surmise that a month from today is
right there around draft time, day.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
One of the twenty twenty five NFL Draft, It will
be here before you know it. And yes, I think
we can all look forward to those days because it
eliminates a lot of talk about the pre draft process.
Got a couple of new mock drafts with two new
names to talk about. We'll get to that in a moment.
But you know what, it also is this time of year,
(02:06):
and this kind of goes through the entire offseason, but
it is the start of list season. Everyone has a list.
One of the first lists I saw NFL dot Com
ten best moves of the twenty twenty five NFL offseason
so far. The Cardinals did not make the lists. Really
(02:26):
I'm just curious because I went back and I looked,
and Okay, they have the Bears hiring Ben Jonson, the
Bears rebuilding their offensive line, the Bengals extending both Jamar
Chase and t Higgins, the Seahawks signing Sam Darnold, the
Vikings signing Jonathan Allen, Rams get Devanta Adams, and I'm
looking at like, Okay, that's great. A couple of wide receivers,
(02:47):
Debo Samuel they have on the list of the Commanders
acquiring him, Drake Greenlaw going to the Broncos. But the Cardinals,
I would think, Paul, based off the amounts of money
that they invested here in free agency, ly along the
defensive line in that front seven, why wouldn't the Cardinals
be among the teams that have the best moves. Why
(03:08):
wouldn't you include Josh Sweat or Dalvin Tomlinson as one
of the best moves for the price too here in.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Five Yeah, that's truly a no comprendo. There's no I mean,
look low and attention. NFL dot com, that's what it is,
NFL dot com. Yes, was there a team with a
bigger need than the Arizona Cardinals had at edge rusher,
say no, was it, although the Bears offensive line close
very close in the same name. I'm just saying, was
(03:38):
there a bigger need you can be tied, all right?
Was there a team that somehow signed, acquired, recruited, obtained, kidnapped,
whatever you want to call it? A bigger name than
Josh Sweat. So right there, big need, big name, big dollars.
(04:01):
I mean, if you can throw Sam Donald on there, Yeah, that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
One was a real head scratcher because the only reason
they signed Sam Donald's because they traded Gino Smith. So
that's not really I mean, that's kind of a wash, right, I.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Mean, I get it. It's a win for Seattle from
the aspect of they got a round three pick and
then they got a quarterback who was gonna take the
salary they wanted to pay. Said quarterback they wanted to
pay in the mid thirties. Gino Smith reportedly wanted in
the mid forties. They couldn't agree. See you later, he gone,
They ship him out. They get a third round pick
(04:33):
in return. Please tell me DK Metcalf did not make
that list, because if you're the Steelers, you gave up
a second round pick and paid through the nose for
a guy who last year had more penalties than he
did touchdown catches. To me, that was one of the
biggest overreaches desperation moves we've seen in the off season.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
DK Metcalf not on the list. The Buccaneers resigning Chris Godwin, though,
is on the list. Now, that just seems like a
no brainer. Why would you not bring back Chris Godwin.
It's like the Eagles resigning Zach Bond on the list.
I mean, that's again, that's kind of a no brainer
because it's the known, and you want the known to
remain in your building.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Although I did see where Jason Light, former Cardinals assistant
GM and longtime GM of the Buccaneers, said that there
was a team out there writing him blank checks. Every
time the Buccaneers made an offer. This team told team Godwin, no, no,
we'll do better than that. You come here, we're gonna
give you significantly more than that. And so Chris Godwin
actually took a home down discount in every sense of
(05:34):
the term, and he stayed in Tampa Bay.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Milton Williams could be one of those players as far
as Okay, what's the highest bid, because on that Monday
it was always going to Carolina. Wait wait, hold on,
yeah the Patriots, and oh yeah, the Cardinals are interested,
and then more time went on, more time went on,
Oh yeah, I'm gonna sign with New England because the
Patriots were not going to be denied. According to reports,
(05:58):
they were gonna give Milton whatever it took for him
to be a New England Patriot.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, there was a hot moment there on social media
where it was like here coming to Cardinals, right boom,
and it's a two horse race. No wait a minute,
secretary just closed from behind and one by eight lengths.
Because once they got to about twenty six million a
year for Milton Williams, I think that's where, sensibly, feasibly
(06:24):
and thankfully the Cardinals bowed out of that sweet steaks
right there, especially in a loaded D line draft. I
thought that that was above and beyond. But once again,
like we said week fifteen, when the Patriots came in
a state farmed stadium last year, you looked at that roster,
did you not, and you said, wow, they got one
dude on this team, Christian Gonzalez. Other than that, this
(06:45):
roster is totally breft of talent. New England has to
do something. And when you're at that stage in any sport,
a lot of times you have to overpay to get
those To get the big fish, you got to spend
big dollars above and beyond the norm reset the market
in so ways. You know, every losing team that starts
a turnaround typically as that one guy, that one signing
(07:06):
they made the Cardinals.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I don't think overpaid for Josh Sweat or for Dalvin Tomlinson.
If you look at the numbers on overthecap dot com
with Josh Sweat, I mean it's a it's yes, it's
a four year deal, there's a votable fifth year, but
there's no guaranteed money in twenty seven and twenty eight,
so it's really a two year deal. Dalvin Tomlinson no
(07:29):
guaranteed money in twenty six. So it's very shrewd from
GM money Austin for on acquiring these players, and again
you make them motivated for beyond twenty five, twenty six
and twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well, look at Miles Garrett right forty million a year,
Max Crosby thirty five ish a year. I saw Danil
Hunter the Texans just in the last few days did
a one year extension thirty seven and change. Cardinals are
under and they end up just under twenty million a
year on Josh Sweat or so the average annual value.
So and look, Josh Wett hasn't put up numbers consistent
(08:03):
with A Miles Garrett. He doesn't have an NFL Defensive
Player of the Year award. You know, Dean Neil Hunter
has had some big time sack numbers. And we all
know Max Crosby, although remarkably the last four or five
games of the year, the Raiders had a much better
a QB pressure percentage minus Max Crosby than they did
with Max Crosby to date in the twenty four season,
(08:26):
which was both curious and confounding. But you know, Mark
Davis loves himself some Max Crosby, and he paid big
time dollars to keep him in Vegas. So to me,
considering where the Cardinals were, I mean, how else are
you going to fill a need at that position? Craig,
how else are you going to get that guy unless
you're drafting the top five. And even if you are
drafting the top five, is that guy even there? Abduall Carter?
(08:48):
I guess is that guy this year? I guess, but
we'll abduel Carter even measure up, you know, ever measure
up to a Miles Garrett, even a Will Anderson junior.
Was there a couple of years? You know, Drew Stands
made that comment last week on the Red Sea Report
or the Big Red Rage, and so, yeah, we you
haven't needed that position, you know. To me, that's why
(09:09):
the competitive advantage for the Cardinals was obviously Jonathan Ganny
Nick Rowlis. If not for that, I think the Cardinals
would have had to pay more to bring him to
a completely unknown team.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Otherwise it's the known versus the unknown, and why the
Cardinals you go out in free agency, Yeah, you have
to spend, but you're spending on a known commodity. Yeah,
you're hoping, knock on wood, that they stay healthy. But
the draft is a roll of the dice. You have
no idea. There is no such thing as a sure thing. Yeah,
maybe handful of players a Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck.
(09:42):
Peyton Manning though won Super Bowl win Indianapolis, Andrew Luck
no Super Bowls. So it's do you really know about
these players coming out of the draft. And the other
thing that the Cardinals historically sometimes have relied too much
on players they select to come in right away to perform,
and while all of a sudden, now you're looking at Okay,
(10:03):
well that's our starter, that's our edge rusher, and it's
this kid that has no time to really get his
feet underneath him and really learn what it takes to
be a professional at the NFL level, and it takes
a little while. That's why I like what the Cardinals
did in free agency, Paul, because you're not relying now
on that pick sixteen or pick forty seven to come
(10:24):
in and be a starter. If they win the job, great,
but they don't need to come in and be that
guy that everyone is relying on, like.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
A year ago.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Is Marvin Harrison Junior, Hey, you're our wide receiver number one,
Darius Robinson, you're our best defensive lineman next to Justin
Jones of Blon Nichols. Well are you healthy?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Are you ready for that spotlight?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And I think with Marvin he was, but the expectations
were so high and Darius, well we had to wait
and I don't think we even did see what he's
really capable of doing unless you were at State Farm
Stadium during training camp. That's the only time you really
got a glimpse of what d Rob can be in
the NFL. Well, but you know that that's half speed
at best, and you're going against your own guys. So
(11:04):
are they really Are they really pushing you that hard?
Especially throughout an entire training camp?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And you brought in a couple of line of scrimmage
position coaches who you think are excellent teachers, who come
from a level of the game where teaching is paramount
the college game. You're bringing justin Frye, you bring in
coach Debo, and now all of a sudden, you know what,
there's a fresh set of eyes on your linemen. There's
maybe some new teaching tech niques, and you're trying to
(11:32):
get the most out of them. And I'm with you
on that one. You know, every single draft prospect that's
coming out, they're gonna have shortcomings, they're gonna have weaknesses,
they're gonna have traits that don't measure up. But it's
the teams that can forecast look into the crystal you know,
the crystal football, if you will, and be able to
(11:54):
project where can this player be, what sort of ceiling
do they have, and don't make a lame analogy here.
How many times have you seen the Bob Dylan movie? Okay?
Once have you really?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah? Okay, because I was gonna go see it the
other day and I didn't, do you recommend it? I do?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I enjoyed it. I didn't know much about the backstore.
I mean, I know Bob Dylan's music, but not much
about how he reached that point. Very interesting, cat, I'll
just say that.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So Timothy's Shallow May, the lead actor who was nominated
for an oscar. He learned how to play the guitar,
he learned how to play the harmonica, he learned how
to sing, and then they said you need to learn
a dozen songs, and he learned forty of them. Apparently.
I mean, you talk about completely immersing yourself into your craft.
(12:40):
If Timothy Schallo May can learn how to play the
guitar at a Bob Dylan level, sing harmonica, perform songs,
then I think some of these NFL prospects can add
to their game from one off season to the next.
They can evolve and they can improve. It's a matter
of the coaching staffs getting the most started these guys.
(13:00):
And I would say that this Cardinals coaching staff has
excelled in that area. So like for me, you're talking
about the mock drafts Uh, there's one out there, and
it's this is an interesting one of me because you're
gonna get to some of the big names. But NFL
dot com is a mock draft out by Mike band
b a n D.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You shared with me with this earlier in the day,
and I was, I gave you a I gave you,
I gave you a weird look.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Let's just put it that way to be polite. Okay.
So he's not known at all. In fact, he's a
newcomer in terms of having his mock draft posted on
NFL dot com. But it's the twenty first straight year
he's done it. And he's a next gen stats guy,
and he says it's a research driven approach, blending data
including insider reports, team needs, scheme, philosophies to that team
(13:48):
and all and even the odds. He'll he used some
of the bookmakers, bet MGM and stuff and he connects
all the dots and boom, he puts it into his
model whatever it is, and out comes James Pierce Junior,
which is the I've been stumping for the whole time,
the six foot five edge out of Tennessee who ran
the four four seven forty, which is a full second
faster and anyone in his position group. And most importantly,
(14:12):
if you read some of the sky reports, I think
it's lance zerlineh posted has displayed relentless pursuit at Tennessee.
That is a double ding right there. He's got all
the traits, he's got all the skills, and he's got
the motor hashtag Max Crosby, right, and so here's a
guy who also is said to be very flexible in
(14:32):
terms of his positional flexibility. So all this there, I
could absolutely see that as a draft pick. And yeah,
he's had some shortcomings and I guess he's a little
light in the pants. And maybe they say he has
narrow hips whatever that means. Chandler Jones, would you have
said he had narrow hips? I mean, come on, right,
And so all that being the case, I thought it
(14:53):
was very interesting. And by the way, he actually cited
his track record. Over the past five years, he has
ranked fifth and overall accuracy amongst seventy five expert mock drafts,
and last year among one hundred and seventy two expert
mock drafts he was number two in accuracy. So anyway,
I throw that out there because he's a newcomer.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Okay, I guess we'll have to start paying attention to
his name again. Was Mike Band Mike Band? Okay, by
the way, Bucky Brooks who is expected to come out
with his three point zero sometime this week. I read
he had James Pearce Junior mocked to the Cardinals in
his first Okay first mock draft and wrote that Pierce
(15:31):
is an explosive athlete with a developing game as a
pass rush specialist. But here's someone that was the Bednarik,
Lombardi and Walter Camp Player of the Year semi finalists,
two time first team All SEC led Tennessee and tackles
for loss, sacks, quarterback curries. So yeah, that would be
a nice fit within that front seven. And again coming
(15:53):
in whomever it is at sixteen, if it is at
along that front seven, you know you've got Josh on
the other side. You brought back Baron Browning, so you
don't have to be that pre eminent pass rusher. You
don't have to be Chandler Jones coming out week one.
You can kind of sit back a little bit. Not
that it wouldn't be any pressure or spotlight on you,
(16:14):
because people would wonder, well, why aren't you doing anything yet?
But it's kind of like the heat is not nearly
as hot, that spotlight is not nearly as bright.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
If you were the only guy.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
That Baron Browning wasn't resigned, you didn't land Josh what
and here comes this young kid to be your edge rusher.
That's that's too much on someone.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
And let's face it, we're on the trust tree around here.
On Cardinals cover two, bjo Jali is still an unknown.
Tons of upside love the work ethic, love the character,
love the athleticism, the skill set. What he was putting
out in that field the first half of Cardinals camp
last year, it was excellent, but never saw it in
a regular season game last year obviously seasoned any knee injury.
(16:58):
What's he gonna be like? Is he going to be
that player who's able to come back immediately Adrian Peterson
and have a two thousand yard rushing season, or is
he going to be that guy who doesn't really recover
until year two after the injury, akin to a Dennis Gardak.
Most recently if we want to talk about Cardinals ed
rushers edge rushers, So you don't know, I guess is
(17:20):
my point. And here's all we do know. If they
go James Spears Junior, for example, or another edge guy,
he might be like, well, wait a minute, they just
spend all this money on Josh Sweat and Baron Browning's
coming back. Well, do you know the team that led
the NFL in sacks last year? I did not know this.
I saw this out in my head. I do not
Denver sixty three sacks led the league. I bring that
(17:42):
up because what did Denver do as a team last year?
They broke an eight year playoff drought with a rookie quarterback. Quarterback,
get to the quarterback, and then protect that quarterback. Those
are the three axioms. So this Cardinals team that is
still loading up the roster has still done the purge,
as we like to talk about. If you can improve
(18:05):
this pass rush significantly, that is one formula to the playoffs.
Denver just proved it with a rookie quarterback who really
didn't get traction to the second half of the season.
And then, obviously the team that just won the Super Bowl,
what they do They hit and harassed Patrick Mahomes. So
that to me, if you do go that position, I
(18:27):
don't think it's overload because at this point for this team,
it was their biggest knee going in the offseason. Are
they regular season ready right now at where it stands? Sure?
I think so. But James Pierce Junior still makes a
lot of sense in a really loaded draft.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I'll go back to what you had said earlier as
far as name me a team that had a bigger
need than the Cardinals at edge rush or just along
that entire defensive front, because I include the defensive line
because a lot is unknown and there weren't not a
lot of household names, so improving that defensive front was
a priority. I don't think I'm going out on limb
(19:01):
on saying that. And if you look at what the
Cardinals did have done so far in free agency, Pro
Football Focus has noticed. In fact, they had want to
talk about lists, they had another list. They listed five
most improved units. Okay, and they did this in alphabetical order,
so it's not a one, two, three, four, five or
account or anything like that. But again, Bears are on
(19:22):
here again with their offensive line because for the Bears,
there was no place to go but up with what
they did. The Vikings improve their offensive line, the giant secondary,
and the commander's supporting cast on offense. That's kind of
a broad term, but I guess you want to include
Debo in there, and okay, it makes sense. But they
had the Cardinals their most improved unit, the defensive line
(19:43):
and the front seven overall. According to PFF, Cardinals in
twenty twenty four had the fifth lowest graded defensive line
last season. So what the Cardinals do? They have invested
almost one hundred and twenty five million dollars on the
defensive front. And again, that's Josh, that's Dalvin Tomlinson, that's
bringing back Baron Browning. It's where this team needed to
(20:05):
get better, not just on paper, but on the football
field and make that jump. Yes, from four wins to
eight wins. Now, okay, you need to get that ten
eleven to twelve wins. And how do you do it? Well, yeah,
you need an offense, but just need to stop teams.
And I think the Cardinals went into this offseason free agency.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
We'll see what.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Happens in the draft. We need to be better along
the front seven. We need to have a better defensive line,
not just getting into the quarterback, but how about stopping
the run. Do that a little bit better so you
can get to third down and obvious passing situations and
unleash Josh wet A, Baron Browning, Bjo Julari and company
to get this team more successful on those passing situations. Defensively,
(20:48):
you know, we tend to forget.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I know I do. Because the Cardinals started six and
four and went into the break in first place. But
early in the season there were some intermittent issues in
stopping the run, and Nick Rowls and Jonathan Gannon had
to make some adjustments. They had to vote extra resources
not just to getting after the quarterback, but in stopping
the run. So once again, if you can rush four
and get home, I mean, that is always the goal.
(21:12):
Has Nick Ross ever enjoyed that luxury in his two
years as Cardinals defensive coordinator, not very often. Probably count
in one hand how many games he's able to rush
for and still get home really affect the quarterback. So
when last season ended Week eighteen, here were the defensive
linemen who dressed and played. Darius Robinson, l J Collier,
(21:33):
Roy Lopez, Dante Stills, Nai Kwan Jones, Kyrie's Tonga. You
come out at least on paper right now, Dalvin Tomlinson,
Justin Jones, Ballal Nichols, d Rob l j Collier, Dante Stills,
and then maybe a rookie, maybe a rookie on day one,
(21:54):
maybe a rookie on day two. Nobody would be surprised
if the Cardinals, if not at sixteen over, were at
forty seven or maybe even in round three, ended up
with a pretty talented defensive lineman. How many different analysts
and the combine Craig told you this is that is
that the deepest position in this draft defensive line.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
As far as the talent level top to bottom. I
mean there is a drop off between you know you're
up their tier, but set that second and third tier
are still higher than several other positions across the board.
But you can find quality defensive line play in the
second and third round yeap.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
For that reason, if the Cardinals went d tackle in
round one, if they went corner in round one, if
they went offensive guard in round one, and then any
of those three positions in round two, leaving D line
to round three, I would not be shocked. I think
it's that deep, and the Cardinals are that confident in
the war room and their scouts that they can probably
find a dude who would come in, you know, and
(22:56):
have a nice career in the NFL at that position.
Considering how deep this is at de tackle.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right now, they've got six solid defensive linemen that you
could have a rotation. Now do you add a seventh
in there? Do you carry seven defensive linemen? Typically we've
seen this team use a three man fronts. But does
that change because the talent has been upgraded and all
of a sudden, maybe you see a little bit more
guys with their hand in the dirts up near the
(23:21):
line of scrimmage. Maybe maybe rawless does change things a
little bit. Being adaptable something Jonathan Ginnon loves to say,
whether you're on offense or defense. What's it gonna take
for us to win that particular week? Do we need
four down linemen? Do we need three? How many times
last season late when they needed to have a pass rush,
there was one or two defensive linemen with their hand
(23:45):
in the dirt because they had to figure out they
had a manufacture. They had to scheme up pressure. But
going back to what you said about the Philadelphia Eagles
just rushing four.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Okay, well what four?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
And then how many different ways can you rush for
and make it not look like it's four. Maybe it
looks like it's five or six, but guys are peeling
back and all of a sudden the quarterback is confused.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
It was later in the year and it was Zaving
Collins in the Big Red Rage told us just how
often he been sucked inside to a five technique or
three technique on an obvious passing down at six, five,
two seventy, And they would, you know, Nick Rawls would
be very creative with Xaving Collins, big dude who can run,
because we also see him in deep coverage at times.
(24:26):
And then I started watching the last month of the
year and like, man, it's even more exotic and creative
than I even realized, because a lot of times that
sort of stuff kind of gets lost in the wash
and the chaos at the point of attack. So to
your point, once again, okay, do you put six? Do
you put seven on this final roster? We do know this.
Jonathan Gannon has said more than once he loves to
(24:48):
keep those linemen fresh, and so if they had a
legitimate talent pool who all deserved to have a jersey
on game day, then I think they would. I think
they would find room because I think that's the way
ultimately they want to play, bringing in waves, just like
the Eagles did in Suit Bowl fifty nine.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I'm curious because we always talk about that rotation, but
you look at how many snaps Josh Swett played last season,
Dalvin Tomlinson played last season. They were all on the
field for sixty percent of the defensive snaps. David Collins
played fifty five percent. He was the highest among outside linebackers.
There was no defensive aligneman that played more than fifty
(25:28):
percent of the defensive snaps. So, yeah, you want that rotation,
but maybe that rotation is not a series or a quarter.
But DT comes out, but he's right back in there
after a snap or two. Because again, if you're going
to invest that much money on Josh what and Dalvin Tomlinson,
you want them on that football field. You don't want
(25:48):
them to be cheerleaders on the sideline standing with next
to you, Paul, no offense, but I want to see
Josh Wett on the football field, not chumming it up
with you on the sideline.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Well and Swet says he's a three down guy, So okay,
But to your point, if it's third and one, who
do you want in the trenches a young Darius Robinson
or Dalvin Tomlinson. Certain guys are more suited to certain situations.
So if you have the ability to sub, then yeah,
there are certain guys that are going to go in
based on down and distance, no doubt about it. But
(26:19):
that's why you like to have a variety of body types,
of variety of different guys who you know would be
needed in different situations. So you know that one's interesting.
In terms of other mock drafts that are out there,
what is it? Mel Kiper and the Associated Press put
out their first one, Will Johnson cornerback out of Michigan
going to the Cardinals. I know mel Kiper was on
(26:40):
with Wolf on his radio show in Arizona Sports and
he said, Will Johnson is quote a pick six waiting
to happen. Six to two plus really runs. I mean,
when you read this Scout report, the name that keeps
jumping into my head Jalen Ramsey, big dude, ridiculously athletic,
crazy ball skills, aggressive, So I didn't give it much
(27:04):
consideration when this whole process started. But if will Johnson,
who dealt with injury and sort of had a muted
final year at Michigan, otherwise he'd probably be a top
ten pick if he's there at sixteen, and the Cardinals,
like the Medicals, I could see that happening, especially when
you look at the stinking Rams. Adding Devonte Adams right
another big receiver. We know Pukainakua is a problem. I mean,
(27:26):
you know the Niners, Brandon ayuk Is, he's still in
the trade block, we don't know. And then you know
Jackson Smith and Jigba you know, more of an interior guy,
but he was a headache last year. Obviously, I think
Garrett Williams and Jackson Smith and Jigma are going to
be those guys are going to battle for the next
five years. Mono I mono. But right now in the division,
(27:47):
it's not just about stopping the run, because we know
the Seahawks want to run more than ever and Christian
McCaffrey's going to be back and Kyen Williams. That was
a big improvement by the Cardinals defense this year. But
if they can get that dude who john and again
and Nick Ross can start their game plan every single
week saying, all right, our number one corner is on
your number one receiver, a luxury they have not had
since Patrick Peterson. I could definitely see that happening.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Good size, Well Johnson six' two one ninety. Four you
brought up the injury. Concerns six games played last season
because of a toe, injury and this is a position
that back In, January Matt, MILLER Espn draft expert Mocked
corner to The cardinals with his first round pick and
second round, pick and he got. Mocked and we talked
(28:30):
to him about it When danny AND i were In
indianapolis at the scouting, combine and he mentioned it was
looking at the value of those particular players at sixteen
and forty. Seven now you see mel Kiper junior mockt and,
okay wait a. Second it's one thing When Matt miller does,
it another thing when mel Kiper junior does. It but
what The cardinals have put themselves in position to do
(28:51):
based off their free agency is draft the best player,
available and if It's, corner it would be a little
bit of a surprise it does and fall along the
line of scrimmage that typically we refer to when we're
talking about. Money how do you want to build this?
Team how do you want to? Win you want to
win at the line of. Scrimmage, yet, Well johnson's in intriguing,
(29:11):
prospects AND i know they've invested a lot at that cornerback,
position but there's no Guarantee Starling. Toma there's no Guarantee Elijah,
jones which we haven't seen in a game. Yet he's
going into his second, season really his first though after an,
injury yeah, field rookie. Season so what do you really
have in that cornerback room outside of A Garrett williams
(29:34):
who's done it now.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Consistently is there?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Anyone And Sean Murphy bunting wouldn't put him in that
category because he's more of a veteran that's probably further
away than guys that you want to build. Around AND
i THINK i would not have a problem if cornerback
is the, position because you've set yourself up to take
whoever you think is that number one guy available when your.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Pick is on the. Clock so you Said Matt miller
put out that mock In, january, correct he Has if
we're in the trust tree here and we always are.
THERE i Was polly Pencil, neck and we all fashion
ourselves as, gms and we're standing there training camp and
it's a dog days of, camp. RIGHT i remember having
a CONVERSATION i think it was With wolf on the, sideline,
going you know, what take a looking at this roster right,
(30:19):
here right, now without even having played a preseason, GAME
i would surmise The cardinals go cornerback next year round.
One it just seemed to. Be now over the course
of the, Year Starling THOMAS i think definitely improved and
evolved more than we all. ANTICIPATED i had no idea
(30:39):
until late in the year until he's on the Big
Red rage That Starling thomas ran up four to. Eight
it is pro. DAY i did not know. That and
by the, way, anyone if you want a really well
done story In Starling thomas his, backstory just go to
The cardinals YouTube page YouTube dot com Slash Azy cardinals
and it is worth your twelve minutes of viewing. Time
really one to well done feature by The cardinals video.
(31:02):
Crew Emmy award Winning by the, way this one might
be enlightful. One we'll, see very well done. Yep but
in terms of the cornerback. Position, Yeah Elijah jones total
unknown at this, point he's a year, behind unfortunately because
of all the. INJURIES i Thought Max melton played really
well in his last four or five, games but he's
far from a shutdown corner at this. Point and Then
(31:24):
Sean Murphy bunting is at a. Point you know how
gms like to work a year ahead of tell you
so a year from. Now at this, time as a
Veteran Sean Murphy bunting and the way his contract is,
constructed it could or would make sense to come off
that contract at the end of this coming, season at which,
point you know. Whatever if you took A Will johnson
or some other cornerback On day one Or day two
(31:45):
of this, draft then, boom it would be a natural
just to slide him into that.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Position if A Will johnson is comparable to What Patrick
peterson was capable of, doing and that is takeaway half
the football, field then all of a, sudden, yeah you
have to seriously consider that prospect at, Sixteen Garrett, williams
you keep.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Him in the, slot you move him to.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Outside you Like Darling, Thomas Max melton on the opposite
side of A Will johnson And Keith garrett in the
slot because he's, very very. Good and now all of a,
sudden you've got you've improved your pass, rush which can
only help and benefit those guys on the back. End
so again it's that. Position you're, like wait a, second
it's all about the liner, scrimmage offensive, line defensive. Line
(32:29):
you're gonna give, Us you're gonna mock a, Corner you're
gonna take a corner at. Sixteen he's a second cornerback
off the board on mel Kiper junior's three point. Zero
Travis hunter is the number one corner and he's gonna
play a little offense or you, Know so all of a,
sudden the best corner not Named Travis hunter Is Will
johnson and he's available at. SIXTEEN i, mean that's that's
(32:53):
that's very tempting when you look at what The cardinals
have done and what they're projected as far as the
players that they've already select in the draft a year
ago at the cornerback. Position, now all of a, sudden
you've got that rotation in the. Secondary and, oh by the,
way the head, coach that's his area of. Expertise Cornerback
Jonathan gannon so nobody puts a higher value in that
position than the head coach. Himself but speaking of working
(33:14):
a year, out for, example if you take a corner
at sixteen and that ends up being the ultimate successor
To Sean Murphy bunting a year from. NOW i noticed
in AN nfl Dot com to start the week there's
a four round mock From Chad. Reader and in this,
one SOMEONE i have heard about and read ON nfl dot, com.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
By the, way as The cardinals taking a corner in
round Four Kobe bryant out Of. Kansas now this is
this is the third different spelling Of Kobe. Bryant. Okay
now The seahawks out Of Kobe, bryant which was spelled
different than The, lakers you, Know, superstar this one is
spelled cob.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Ee Brian kobi e correct Like seattle.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Ye so, anyway that's neither here nor. There what's intriguing
is that The cardinals in this mock they Do that's
something we brought up about a month or two, ago
and that is, okay if The cardinals are done with
quantity and leading THE nfl two years, ago and rookie
starts in rookie snaps and then follow that up with
a twelve player draft, class not even including the undrafted
(34:15):
rookie free agents who have made this team over the
last couple of, years from A Starling thomas To amari
De Mercado Elijah, higgins And i'm probably forgetting one or two.
More this, case he has The cardinals trading up to
thirteen and Taking TEXAS o Lineman Calvin, banks and you're,
like wait a, minute they don't need a. Tackle, well hang,
on he has the ability to play. Inside so there's
(34:38):
your guard that you were thinking about. Taking you, Know
Tyler booker toty. Plummeted by the, way, man if there's
one thing that has happened in the last, month ever
since you were at the, COMBINE i Mean Tyler. Booker
when all these mocks, started he was going tenth overall To.
Chicago he was going thirteenth overall To. Miami there's most
mocks now don't even have him in the first. ROUND
(34:59):
a COUPLE i saw had him fallen all the way
to The lions at twenty. EIGHT i could definitely see.
That and the only thing worse than that is if
he ends up falling all the way To Kansas city
at thirty one and The chiefs get to Replace Joe
tooney With Tyler booker out Of. Alabama that would be
Vaccine Our chiefs fatigue would only grow exponentially at that. Point,
(35:22):
anyway the point here is At Calvin banks alignment out
Of texas sixty five three point, Fifteen cardinals move up
in this. Mock they would swap their round three For
miami's late round four and they move up three. Spots
and you're talking about a kid who coming out of high,
school top ten prospect. Nationally he was a Freshman All
american and then he was a starter the moment he
(35:45):
stepped on campus all three years including last, year two years,
ago first Team All Big, twelve last, year first Team All.
American and we're talking about the left tackle won The Lombardi,
award won The Outland trophy is the outstanding off defensive
lineman in the. Nation and one skin of REPORT i
looked at On Calvin banks, said arguably his best game
(36:08):
was as a freshman against Will. Anderson let that hang
in the air for a, Minute so, anyway could you see.
THAT i could definitely see That cardinals give up a
little extra because now it's not as much about quantity as.
Quality they get A Calvin, banks they put him inside
at guard for this coming, season and then next year
After Jonah williams has done with his two year, Contract,
(36:29):
boom there's your starting right tackle going forward for the next.
Decade the, position the, player no. PROBLEM i just.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Hesitate, again we only even Seen Manti Austin ford work
the draft. Twice and to move up unless he's moved
back first of, all as he did two years ago
in order to move, up because he did move up
to Get, PARIS i just and when you only have
six draft picks going, IN i get. It that's my only.
(36:58):
Hesitation but, again and going in and the conversations In, indianapolis
the number of people that we talk to that there
is there is not a consensus when you talk about
the twenty twenty FIVE Nfl, draft there's not a consensus
as far who the number one pick, is who the
best quarterback. Is NOW i think there's become more of a,
consensus but it's only by. Default it's not a solid quarterback.
(37:22):
Class but when you talk about that ten to twenty,
range it could go a number of different. Ways someone's
eleventh best prospect could be another team's thirty seconds true best.
Prospect so if but, again if you're sitting there at
sixteen and you see this start, guy he's still on the,
board he's still on the, board then, YEAH i. Would
(37:44):
If i'm a general manager AND i have, conviction or
If i've got a guy's around, me hey we need
this guy, Mania Austin fort will pick up the. Phone
there's no doubt in my mind that he has the
ability to trade. Up it's just that first time would
be the first time in the first. Round now he's
done it other, days but going from sixteen to thirteen
(38:04):
at what costs just depends.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Well in most mock drafts don't have him getting past
The bears at ten because The bears still do need
a tackle and a left tackle in particular to complete that,
rebuild that reset or their offensive line Under Ben. Johnson
or Remember Ben johnson comes from A lions. Outfit that
what they do with their very first draft Pick Brad
holmes And Dan. Campbell they Took Penny, sewell just sort
(38:28):
of like The cardinals with Montiyassa word And Jonathan gannon
Took Paris Johnson. Junior so there's some similarities. There when
you want to build football, tough as we like to
say about The Arizona cardinals and their. Philosophy but if
he's still, There Calvin, banks and will he get Past? Miami,
now a lot of other mocks Have miami at thirteen
(38:48):
taking that offensive. Lineman so that's why you have to come,
up do a deal with The dolphins and try and
get the. Guy perhaps that you would cover it in that.
Regard but, remember here's the, Thing craig about the whole
quality versus. Quantity at least this is What i'm telling.
Myself you tell me If i'm on point with this or.
Not it's one thing when You're maniacibor And Jonathan gannon
and you're cutting other people's draft picks and there's only
(39:13):
three left from the previous four draft classes that preceded
maniacin for. It but because you've had so many rookies come,
in so many acquisitions over the last two, years there's
only so many spots on the final, roster fifty three
of them unless they've changed that as one of the
offseason rule. Changes so it's much more difficult to start
(39:33):
cutting your own guys that you have attachments, to that
you believe. In that you've personally scouted and. Coached so
in that, case if they were to give up a draft,
pick AND i get, it they only have six and
they value them as much as any team in the.
League but if they had to do that to get
that guy to complete the offensive, LINE i think they.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Would here's another name to, Consider Daniel. Jeremiah his three
point zero offensive linemen can play cross the. Board North
Dakota State's Gray zabel six six three twelve love the. Size,
yes it's AN fcs, Program yet here's someone who can
play right, tackle left, tackle can play the guard. Position
(40:14):
going back to the biggest question THAT i think a
lot of us have on that offensive side of the
ball is who's the right?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Guard?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Now can you plug in a rookie There sandwich next
To Jonah williams Or Kelvin beacham next To yell Defrolt
i'd have no problem with that because you've got veterans
bookending a. Rookie and, again you can kind of get
lost at the guard. Position it doesn't stick out much
like a tackle, would where you get. Beat everyone sees
it kind of hide a little bit as a, guard
(40:44):
especially if you're a younger. Player all, Right Gray zabel
kick him out to the tackle spot after his first
year six, six three. Twelve that's hard to. Move and
he was one Of Daniel jeremiah's big players as far
as The Senior bowl was. Concern in, fact called him
a day one starter and the overall practice player of
(41:06):
the week in The Senior. Bowl that's a poll OF nfl. Executives,
again those practices much more important than the game. Itself
that's Another, again the position just a different, name and
there you would stay at sixteen and select offensive.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Alignment, yeah he had to have it That Senior. Bowl
That Senior bowl week is no more important to anyone
than a guy coming From North Dakota state because you
got to prove it against the big boys from the big.
Schools and he. Did he held his own and then
SOME i saw Or lancero line put a tough guy
profile on this prospect own In North Dakota. State, who
(41:41):
by the, way he played four different positions over his
career in, college and he had ample opportunity to go
to THE fbs to Go division one for big. Money
he said he left a significant amount six, FIGURES i
mean a lot of money on the table to stay
At North Dakota, state play with his, brother try and
get the national. Championship he did do. That he checked
(42:03):
both those boxes and from all accounts they say his
frame at six six three twelve has room for additional
body masks and. Strength so if that's the, case to your, point,
yeah start him, inside kick him outside at some point
early in his, career not unlike A Calvin banks out
Of texas if you want that direction either, WAY i
(42:23):
could easily see The cardinals calling that, name especially when
you hear the two words tough. Guy they like. That
they like that bit of nasty in the. Trenches but then,
again don't forget About Isaiah. Adams to, me that is
the sleeper of the. Offseason where is he in the squad?
Rack how much strength does he put? On as he
had one of Those Zach allen off seasons between his
rookie year and his sophomore year in THE nfl where
(42:46):
he gets, stronger he gets, bigger and he comes back
a totally different. Player because they did like what they
saw In Isaiah adams on the. Film now he just
has to have more than ability to compete and hold
his own strength, wise and they think he definitely has
the ability to achieve that.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
To cornerback and offensive. Line as far as the mock
drafts are, concerned The cardinals did make a couple of
moves since our last, show both at the cornerback position
and offensive. Line Jalen jones has been signed to a
one year deal to bolster up that cornerback, room and
His Ole miss Teammate Royce newman signed a one year
deal to again give That cardinals offensive line more. Depth
(43:23):
not saying either one of these guys are coming in
to be a, starter but at this, point when you're
trying to build that ninety man, roster, yeah at this
point you're gonna see names guys coming. In maybe you
catch lightning in a, bottle or maybe they're that death,
player or As Nick rlis likes to, say someone loses a.
Shoe well you've got someone to come in and play
(43:44):
or start if need. Be like we Saw Jackson, barton
one of those players who hangs around does enough coaches
don't want to see him walk out the, building and
all of a, sudden he's starting a couple of games
for you because guys ahead of him get. Hurt who's
to say if that's Not Royce. Newman this, Season, Hey.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Jackson, barton that one game he, had he didn't make
it through the entirety of the. Game he was somewhere
in the fourth, quarter ran up what the toe, injury
and that plagued him the rest of the. Year but,
hey he graded out pretty well in the coach's. Eyes
and HE i mean at that point he was the
third string right tackle and he came in and he
acquitted himself real. Well Royce newman's. Intriguing you know why
(44:22):
because as a rookie he started sixteen games With Green
bay at, guard and then since his rookie, year the
last three years he Hasn't he's had another eight, starts
but he, obviously you, know the action has been, intermittent
and last year he only got one game of action With.
Tampa so wait a, minute what is still under the?
(44:43):
Hood can The cardinals untap a little bit of? That
is that something where it just was a matter of
a poor, fit you, know the last couple of teams
he's been. With but here's a guy six, five, three
ten fifty two career games and after starting sixteen as
a rookie three years, Ago, hey he kicked the tires
in that and see what he's.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Got twenty three of his twenty four starts have either
been at right guard or left.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Guard there you.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Go so now all of a, sudden you've got and
maybe it's that, position that right guard, position or you're
just flooding. Everybody, okay we've got, three, four five different.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
Guys go. Compete and here's the reality check THAT i
keep telling myself because you, KNOW i, think like a
lot Of cardinals fans and those of us who cover the,
team because we really like not only the, player but
the person is, like Oh, jesus Is Will? Hernandez when
Is Will hernandez coming? Back or, uh guys they are.
White you know, What guess, what it's THE. Nfl it's a.
(45:35):
Business if they haven't returned, Yet i'm not expecting them to.
Return if they, do BECAUSE i have no inside, knowledge then,
great that's. Gravy but as of right, Now i'm proceeding
as if they are not part of the twenty twenty
Five Arizona. Cardinals AND i think is signing like This
Royce newman maybe further solidifies that they got a guy
(45:58):
with starting experience In. Garden let's see what he looks.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Like a week from, today excuse, me a week from
tomorrow Is april, first and the closer you get To
april and Then may and again if you're still that
phone hasn't rung yet and you're a man without a,
team then all of a sudden it becomes, okay maybe
it's closer to training camp before you actually, Sign and
(46:20):
especially someone Like Will hernandez coming off IN acl. Injury
just how healthy are you right? Now and does it
serve the team better to wait a little while to
get see where you're at before they're gonna put pen
to paper and get you to.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Sign who's the guy to look out, for by the,
way among our work colleagues On april, FIRST i, mean
what do you? Think AND i don't know.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
What, well both of us just automatically turn to my
left you're right and are looking At cody behind the. Glass,
Yeah cody fits that profile a little, bit the quiet
guy kind of lives in the. Shadows and then all
of a, sudden boom right out of.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Nowhere, yeah head on a swivel Around. Cody On april,
first who was the who else would be a, prankster a?
Jokester Probably Zach. Gershman, yeah, Yeah. Gershman you KNOW i
could see it some of the stuff he brought out
of the frat house just two short years ago could
find its way into the. Workplace we'll see about That
darren urban sleeper and That, No darren's too, busy he's
(47:16):
got buttoned, Up he's got too much other stuff going,
on you, KNOW i, mean you know he has to
ASSESS hr. Violations he can't be committing. Them so, Yeah
i'm gonna start thinking about. That maybe we'll have a
power pole here. Soon those most likely to be on
the business end of An April fool's, Prank.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Cody Of air just all of a sudden perked up
and when he Mentioned april, first right around the, corner
AND i Believe, paul will you AND i will be
on the Air april.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
First that is Red sea reported as A.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Tuesday so we'll just have to figure out what SoundBite
we might be throwing to and all of a sudden
it throws us under the.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
Bus NO. Kvb But Rob frederson could be that. Guy
Frederick's freddie could be that guy On april. First we'll.
See by the, way you want my favorite Stat i'm
gonna avoid mentioning your dead last right now on the
offense when time out.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Timeout, okay as we come full circle here the last
topic of discussion here On cardinals cover. TOO i am
not dead. Last i'm near last, place not dead. Last
there's a, Distinction. Paul i'm not the last Place San
francisco forty nine. Ers i'm not quite that.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
BAD i. See, okay we'll be, bad just not that.
Bad you. Know what is even worse was the three
point shooting in That Arkansas Saint john's. Game do you
Realize arkansas And Saint john's combine to shoot four of
forty one from three point range in that? GAME i,
mean what is going? On are you? Serious arkansas shot
(48:43):
two of nineteen from three point, range gave up twenty
eight offensive, rebounds and somehow still Beat Rick. PATINO i
don't know how that happens, exactly but it's the beauty
Of march. Madness, so, okay we'll See. Craig there's still
plenty of time to. Go you. Know we look forward
to attaching those two last place to not only The,
niners but To Craig.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Grielow, yeah we'll just have to see how the next
couple of weeks, go and who, knows MAYBE i will
be the last place forty nine.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Ers here On cardinals cover. Too by the, way it
can always get, worse it just. DID i look to my,
RIGHT i see Cam ward's pro day at THE, u
And i'm reminded of the twenty six point comeback he
engineered in the second half against on the road, too
by the, way on the road against someone's Almost saturday,
night STINKING Espn college game day was In. Berkeley we
had it, all we were killing. It the whole day was,
(49:31):
ours and then Cam ward comes back and wins the
game by one. Point it was like thirty six thirty
five or some, ridiculous absolute heart and soul crushing loss
by The alma. Mater i'ven't felt that bad since this
past week WHERE i got food. Poisoning so anyway.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
There, jeez, yeah all, right let's let's give let's Give
paul a. Break he's been through a, lot both here
at working apparently at home. Too so on that, note
we'll put a lit on this edition Of Cardinals cover,
two presented By, hyundai proud partner of The Arizona. Cardinals as,
always special thanks to our executive Producer Jill Mama Hundre
our associate Producer Coddy. Fincher keep an eye On cody
(50:13):
over there For Paul. Calvic I'm Craig Real. Lulu we'll
talk to you next time here On, Cardinals cover, Two
Where's My?
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Chicken? Broth And Graham crackers
So just how much better is the Cardinals defensive front
Welcome bird Gang on today's show, Paul calvc joins me,
of course, we won't really know the answer to that
until the regular season, but that's certainly not stopping people
like us from speculating, predicting. I mean, it has to
be better, right. Also, it is a mock draft Monday
at Cardinals Cover two, episode eight sixty three, and it
(00:26):
starts now.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Cardinals Cover two.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Bud to Baker, what Heart?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
What rent?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
This guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Cardinals Cover two is presented by Hyundai, proud partner of
the Arizona Cardinals, and by Arizona Cardinals Podcast. Visit Azycardinals
dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
He's at the ten half of five. He's it again,
some more hurry magic.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Whoa, here's Craigcrioler.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So a question for you, Paul, and no, I'm not
going to ask how your bracket is because quite frankly,
it's much like fantasy.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Football, no one cares a much bracket. That's true my
golf game, you know the bracket, there's certain things nobody
cares about. And by the way, in the future, based
on this question, I might require all questions to be
pre screen, pre podcast, so we'll see how this goes.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Okay, well, there's the question, do you know what happens
one month from today?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
One month?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And because I know you're so good with dates, let
me just let you know this. So we speak here.
It is Monday, March twenty fourth.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
See, I take it one podcast at a time, that
is one deadline at a time. I'm definitely that guy.
But I would surmise that a month from today is
right there around draft time, day.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
One of the twenty twenty five NFL Draft, It will
be here before you know it. And yes, I think
we can all look forward to those days because it
eliminates a lot of talk about the pre draft process.
Got a couple of new mock drafts with two new
names to talk about. We'll get to that in a moment.
But you know what, it also is this time of year,
(02:06):
and this kind of goes through the entire offseason, but
it is the start of list season. Everyone has a list.
One of the first lists I saw NFL dot Com
ten best moves of the twenty twenty five NFL offseason
so far. The Cardinals did not make the lists. Really
(02:26):
I'm just curious because I went back and I looked,
and Okay, they have the Bears hiring Ben Jonson, the
Bears rebuilding their offensive line, the Bengals extending both Jamar
Chase and t Higgins, the Seahawks signing Sam Darnold, the
Vikings signing Jonathan Allen, Rams get Devanta Adams, and I'm
looking at like, Okay, that's great. A couple of wide receivers,
(02:47):
Debo Samuel they have on the list of the Commanders
acquiring him, Drake Greenlaw going to the Broncos. But the Cardinals,
I would think, Paul, based off the amounts of money
that they invested here in free agency, ly along the
defensive line in that front seven, why wouldn't the Cardinals
be among the teams that have the best moves. Why
(03:08):
wouldn't you include Josh Sweat or Dalvin Tomlinson as one
of the best moves for the price too here in.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Five Yeah, that's truly a no comprendo. There's no I mean,
look low and attention. NFL dot com, that's what it is,
NFL dot com. Yes, was there a team with a
bigger need than the Arizona Cardinals had at edge rusher,
say no, was it, although the Bears offensive line close
very close in the same name. I'm just saying, was
(03:38):
there a bigger need you can be tied, all right?
Was there a team that somehow signed, acquired, recruited, obtained, kidnapped,
whatever you want to call it? A bigger name than
Josh Sweat. So right there, big need, big name, big dollars.
(04:01):
I mean, if you can throw Sam Donald on there, Yeah, that.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
One was a real head scratcher because the only reason
they signed Sam Donald's because they traded Gino Smith. So
that's not really I mean, that's kind of a wash, right, I.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Mean, I get it. It's a win for Seattle from
the aspect of they got a round three pick and
then they got a quarterback who was gonna take the
salary they wanted to pay. Said quarterback they wanted to
pay in the mid thirties. Gino Smith reportedly wanted in
the mid forties. They couldn't agree. See you later, he gone,
They ship him out. They get a third round pick
(04:33):
in return. Please tell me DK Metcalf did not make
that list, because if you're the Steelers, you gave up
a second round pick and paid through the nose for
a guy who last year had more penalties than he
did touchdown catches. To me, that was one of the
biggest overreaches desperation moves we've seen in the off season.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
DK Metcalf not on the list. The Buccaneers resigning Chris Godwin, though,
is on the list. Now, that just seems like a
no brainer. Why would you not bring back Chris Godwin.
It's like the Eagles resigning Zach Bond on the list.
I mean, that's again, that's kind of a no brainer
because it's the known, and you want the known to
remain in your building.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Although I did see where Jason Light, former Cardinals assistant
GM and longtime GM of the Buccaneers, said that there
was a team out there writing him blank checks. Every
time the Buccaneers made an offer. This team told team Godwin, no, no,
we'll do better than that. You come here, we're gonna
give you significantly more than that. And so Chris Godwin
actually took a home down discount in every sense of
(05:34):
the term, and he stayed in Tampa Bay.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Milton Williams could be one of those players as far
as Okay, what's the highest bid, because on that Monday
it was always going to Carolina. Wait wait, hold on,
yeah the Patriots, and oh yeah, the Cardinals are interested,
and then more time went on, more time went on,
Oh yeah, I'm gonna sign with New England because the
Patriots were not going to be denied. According to reports,
(05:58):
they were gonna give Milton whatever it took for him
to be a New England Patriot.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, there was a hot moment there on social media
where it was like here coming to Cardinals, right boom,
and it's a two horse race. No wait a minute,
secretary just closed from behind and one by eight lengths.
Because once they got to about twenty six million a
year for Milton Williams, I think that's where, sensibly, feasibly
(06:24):
and thankfully the Cardinals bowed out of that sweet steaks
right there, especially in a loaded D line draft. I
thought that that was above and beyond. But once again,
like we said week fifteen, when the Patriots came in
a state farmed stadium last year, you looked at that roster,
did you not, and you said, wow, they got one
dude on this team, Christian Gonzalez. Other than that, this
(06:45):
roster is totally breft of talent. New England has to
do something. And when you're at that stage in any sport,
a lot of times you have to overpay to get
those To get the big fish, you got to spend
big dollars above and beyond the norm reset the market
in so ways. You know, every losing team that starts
a turnaround typically as that one guy, that one signing
(07:06):
they made the Cardinals.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I don't think overpaid for Josh Sweat or for Dalvin Tomlinson.
If you look at the numbers on overthecap dot com
with Josh Sweat, I mean it's a it's yes, it's
a four year deal, there's a votable fifth year, but
there's no guaranteed money in twenty seven and twenty eight,
so it's really a two year deal. Dalvin Tomlinson no
(07:29):
guaranteed money in twenty six. So it's very shrewd from
GM money Austin for on acquiring these players, and again
you make them motivated for beyond twenty five, twenty six
and twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well, look at Miles Garrett right forty million a year,
Max Crosby thirty five ish a year. I saw Danil
Hunter the Texans just in the last few days did
a one year extension thirty seven and change. Cardinals are
under and they end up just under twenty million a
year on Josh Sweat or so the average annual value.
So and look, Josh Wett hasn't put up numbers consistent
(08:03):
with A Miles Garrett. He doesn't have an NFL Defensive
Player of the Year award. You know, Dean Neil Hunter
has had some big time sack numbers. And we all
know Max Crosby, although remarkably the last four or five
games of the year, the Raiders had a much better
a QB pressure percentage minus Max Crosby than they did
with Max Crosby to date in the twenty four season,
(08:26):
which was both curious and confounding. But you know, Mark
Davis loves himself some Max Crosby, and he paid big
time dollars to keep him in Vegas. So to me,
considering where the Cardinals were, I mean, how else are
you going to fill a need at that position? Craig,
how else are you going to get that guy unless
you're drafting the top five. And even if you are
drafting the top five, is that guy even there? Abduall Carter?
(08:48):
I guess is that guy this year? I guess, but
we'll abduel Carter even measure up, you know, ever measure
up to a Miles Garrett, even a Will Anderson junior.
Was there a couple of years? You know, Drew Stands
made that comment last week on the Red Sea Report
or the Big Red Rage, and so, yeah, we you
haven't needed that position, you know. To me, that's why
(09:09):
the competitive advantage for the Cardinals was obviously Jonathan Ganny
Nick Rowlis. If not for that, I think the Cardinals
would have had to pay more to bring him to
a completely unknown team.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Otherwise it's the known versus the unknown, and why the
Cardinals you go out in free agency, Yeah, you have
to spend, but you're spending on a known commodity. Yeah,
you're hoping, knock on wood, that they stay healthy. But
the draft is a roll of the dice. You have
no idea. There is no such thing as a sure thing. Yeah,
maybe handful of players a Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck.
(09:42):
Peyton Manning though won Super Bowl win Indianapolis, Andrew Luck
no Super Bowls. So it's do you really know about
these players coming out of the draft. And the other
thing that the Cardinals historically sometimes have relied too much
on players they select to come in right away to perform,
and while all of a sudden, now you're looking at Okay,
(10:03):
well that's our starter, that's our edge rusher, and it's
this kid that has no time to really get his
feet underneath him and really learn what it takes to
be a professional at the NFL level, and it takes
a little while. That's why I like what the Cardinals
did in free agency, Paul, because you're not relying now
on that pick sixteen or pick forty seven to come
(10:24):
in and be a starter. If they win the job, great,
but they don't need to come in and be that
guy that everyone is relying on, like.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
A year ago.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Is Marvin Harrison Junior, Hey, you're our wide receiver number one,
Darius Robinson, you're our best defensive lineman next to Justin
Jones of Blon Nichols. Well are you healthy?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Are you ready for that spotlight?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And I think with Marvin he was, but the expectations
were so high and Darius, well we had to wait
and I don't think we even did see what he's
really capable of doing unless you were at State Farm
Stadium during training camp. That's the only time you really
got a glimpse of what d Rob can be in
the NFL. Well, but you know that that's half speed
at best, and you're going against your own guys. So
(11:04):
are they really Are they really pushing you that hard?
Especially throughout an entire training camp?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And you brought in a couple of line of scrimmage
position coaches who you think are excellent teachers, who come
from a level of the game where teaching is paramount
the college game. You're bringing justin Frye, you bring in
coach Debo, and now all of a sudden, you know what,
there's a fresh set of eyes on your linemen. There's
maybe some new teaching tech niques, and you're trying to
(11:32):
get the most out of them. And I'm with you
on that one. You know, every single draft prospect that's
coming out, they're gonna have shortcomings, they're gonna have weaknesses,
they're gonna have traits that don't measure up. But it's
the teams that can forecast look into the crystal you know,
the crystal football, if you will, and be able to
(11:54):
project where can this player be, what sort of ceiling
do they have, and don't make a lame analogy here.
How many times have you seen the Bob Dylan movie? Okay?
Once have you really?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah? Okay, because I was gonna go see it the
other day and I didn't, do you recommend it? I do?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I enjoyed it. I didn't know much about the backstore.
I mean, I know Bob Dylan's music, but not much
about how he reached that point. Very interesting, cat, I'll
just say that.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
So Timothy's Shallow May, the lead actor who was nominated
for an oscar. He learned how to play the guitar,
he learned how to play the harmonica, he learned how
to sing, and then they said you need to learn
a dozen songs, and he learned forty of them. Apparently.
I mean, you talk about completely immersing yourself into your craft.
(12:40):
If Timothy Schallo May can learn how to play the
guitar at a Bob Dylan level, sing harmonica, perform songs,
then I think some of these NFL prospects can add
to their game from one off season to the next.
They can evolve and they can improve. It's a matter
of the coaching staffs getting the most started these guys.
(13:00):
And I would say that this Cardinals coaching staff has
excelled in that area. So like for me, you're talking
about the mock drafts Uh, there's one out there, and
it's this is an interesting one of me because you're
gonna get to some of the big names. But NFL
dot com is a mock draft out by Mike band
b a n D.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You shared with me with this earlier in the day,
and I was, I gave you a I gave you,
I gave you a weird look.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Let's just put it that way to be polite. Okay.
So he's not known at all. In fact, he's a
newcomer in terms of having his mock draft posted on
NFL dot com. But it's the twenty first straight year
he's done it. And he's a next gen stats guy,
and he says it's a research driven approach, blending data
including insider reports, team needs, scheme, philosophies to that team
(13:48):
and all and even the odds. He'll he used some
of the bookmakers, bet MGM and stuff and he connects
all the dots and boom, he puts it into his
model whatever it is, and out comes James Pierce Junior,
which is the I've been stumping for the whole time,
the six foot five edge out of Tennessee who ran
the four four seven forty, which is a full second
faster and anyone in his position group. And most importantly,
(14:12):
if you read some of the sky reports, I think
it's lance zerlineh posted has displayed relentless pursuit at Tennessee.
That is a double ding right there. He's got all
the traits, he's got all the skills, and he's got
the motor hashtag Max Crosby, right, and so here's a
guy who also is said to be very flexible in
(14:32):
terms of his positional flexibility. So all this there, I
could absolutely see that as a draft pick. And yeah,
he's had some shortcomings and I guess he's a little
light in the pants. And maybe they say he has
narrow hips whatever that means. Chandler Jones, would you have
said he had narrow hips? I mean, come on, right,
And so all that being the case, I thought it
(14:53):
was very interesting. And by the way, he actually cited
his track record. Over the past five years, he has
ranked fifth and overall accuracy amongst seventy five expert mock drafts,
and last year among one hundred and seventy two expert
mock drafts he was number two in accuracy. So anyway,
I throw that out there because he's a newcomer.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Okay, I guess we'll have to start paying attention to
his name again. Was Mike Band Mike Band? Okay, by
the way, Bucky Brooks who is expected to come out
with his three point zero sometime this week. I read
he had James Pearce Junior mocked to the Cardinals in
his first Okay first mock draft and wrote that Pierce
(15:31):
is an explosive athlete with a developing game as a
pass rush specialist. But here's someone that was the Bednarik,
Lombardi and Walter Camp Player of the Year semi finalists,
two time first team All SEC led Tennessee and tackles
for loss, sacks, quarterback curries. So yeah, that would be
a nice fit within that front seven. And again coming
(15:53):
in whomever it is at sixteen, if it is at
along that front seven, you know you've got Josh on
the other side. You brought back Baron Browning, so you
don't have to be that pre eminent pass rusher. You
don't have to be Chandler Jones coming out week one.
You can kind of sit back a little bit. Not
that it wouldn't be any pressure or spotlight on you,
(16:14):
because people would wonder, well, why aren't you doing anything yet?
But it's kind of like the heat is not nearly
as hot, that spotlight is not nearly as bright.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
If you were the only guy.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
That Baron Browning wasn't resigned, you didn't land Josh what
and here comes this young kid to be your edge rusher.
That's that's too much on someone.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
And let's face it, we're on the trust tree around here.
On Cardinals cover two, bjo Jali is still an unknown.
Tons of upside love the work ethic, love the character,
love the athleticism, the skill set. What he was putting
out in that field the first half of Cardinals camp
last year, it was excellent, but never saw it in
a regular season game last year obviously seasoned any knee injury.
(16:58):
What's he gonna be like? Is he going to be
that player who's able to come back immediately Adrian Peterson
and have a two thousand yard rushing season, or is
he going to be that guy who doesn't really recover
until year two after the injury, akin to a Dennis Gardak.
Most recently if we want to talk about Cardinals ed
rushers edge rushers, So you don't know, I guess is
(17:20):
my point. And here's all we do know. If they
go James Spears Junior, for example, or another edge guy,
he might be like, well, wait a minute, they just
spend all this money on Josh Sweat and Baron Browning's
coming back. Well, do you know the team that led
the NFL in sacks last year? I did not know this.
I saw this out in my head. I do not
Denver sixty three sacks led the league. I bring that
(17:42):
up because what did Denver do as a team last year?
They broke an eight year playoff drought with a rookie quarterback. Quarterback,
get to the quarterback, and then protect that quarterback. Those
are the three axioms. So this Cardinals team that is
still loading up the roster has still done the purge,
as we like to talk about. If you can improve
(18:05):
this pass rush significantly, that is one formula to the playoffs.
Denver just proved it with a rookie quarterback who really
didn't get traction to the second half of the season.
And then, obviously the team that just won the Super Bowl,
what they do They hit and harassed Patrick Mahomes. So
that to me, if you do go that position, I
(18:27):
don't think it's overload because at this point for this team,
it was their biggest knee going in the offseason. Are
they regular season ready right now at where it stands? Sure?
I think so. But James Pierce Junior still makes a
lot of sense in a really loaded draft.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I'll go back to what you had said earlier as
far as name me a team that had a bigger
need than the Cardinals at edge rush or just along
that entire defensive front, because I include the defensive line
because a lot is unknown and there weren't not a
lot of household names, so improving that defensive front was
a priority. I don't think I'm going out on limb
(19:01):
on saying that. And if you look at what the
Cardinals did have done so far in free agency, Pro
Football Focus has noticed. In fact, they had want to
talk about lists, they had another list. They listed five
most improved units. Okay, and they did this in alphabetical order,
so it's not a one, two, three, four, five or
account or anything like that. But again, Bears are on
(19:22):
here again with their offensive line because for the Bears,
there was no place to go but up with what
they did. The Vikings improve their offensive line, the giant secondary,
and the commander's supporting cast on offense. That's kind of
a broad term, but I guess you want to include
Debo in there, and okay, it makes sense. But they
had the Cardinals their most improved unit, the defensive line
(19:43):
and the front seven overall. According to PFF, Cardinals in
twenty twenty four had the fifth lowest graded defensive line
last season. So what the Cardinals do? They have invested
almost one hundred and twenty five million dollars on the
defensive front. And again, that's Josh, that's Dalvin Tomlinson, that's
bringing back Baron Browning. It's where this team needed to
(20:05):
get better, not just on paper, but on the football
field and make that jump. Yes, from four wins to
eight wins. Now, okay, you need to get that ten
eleven to twelve wins. And how do you do it? Well, yeah,
you need an offense, but just need to stop teams.
And I think the Cardinals went into this offseason free agency.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
We'll see what.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Happens in the draft. We need to be better along
the front seven. We need to have a better defensive line,
not just getting into the quarterback, but how about stopping
the run. Do that a little bit better so you
can get to third down and obvious passing situations and
unleash Josh wet A, Baron Browning, Bjo Julari and company
to get this team more successful on those passing situations. Defensively,
(20:48):
you know, we tend to forget.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I know I do. Because the Cardinals started six and
four and went into the break in first place. But
early in the season there were some intermittent issues in
stopping the run, and Nick Rowls and Jonathan Gannon had
to make some adjustments. They had to vote extra resources
not just to getting after the quarterback, but in stopping
the run. So once again, if you can rush four
and get home, I mean, that is always the goal.
(21:12):
Has Nick Ross ever enjoyed that luxury in his two
years as Cardinals defensive coordinator, not very often. Probably count
in one hand how many games he's able to rush
for and still get home really affect the quarterback. So
when last season ended Week eighteen, here were the defensive
linemen who dressed and played. Darius Robinson, l J Collier,
(21:33):
Roy Lopez, Dante Stills, Nai Kwan Jones, Kyrie's Tonga. You
come out at least on paper right now, Dalvin Tomlinson,
Justin Jones, Ballal Nichols, d Rob l j Collier, Dante Stills,
and then maybe a rookie, maybe a rookie on day one,
(21:54):
maybe a rookie on day two. Nobody would be surprised
if the Cardinals, if not at sixteen over, were at
forty seven or maybe even in round three, ended up
with a pretty talented defensive lineman. How many different analysts
and the combine Craig told you this is that is
that the deepest position in this draft defensive line.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
As far as the talent level top to bottom. I
mean there is a drop off between you know you're
up their tier, but set that second and third tier
are still higher than several other positions across the board.
But you can find quality defensive line play in the
second and third round yeap.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
For that reason, if the Cardinals went d tackle in
round one, if they went corner in round one, if
they went offensive guard in round one, and then any
of those three positions in round two, leaving D line
to round three, I would not be shocked. I think
it's that deep, and the Cardinals are that confident in
the war room and their scouts that they can probably
find a dude who would come in, you know, and
(22:56):
have a nice career in the NFL at that position.
Considering how deep this is at de tackle.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right now, they've got six solid defensive linemen that you
could have a rotation. Now do you add a seventh
in there? Do you carry seven defensive linemen? Typically we've
seen this team use a three man fronts. But does
that change because the talent has been upgraded and all
of a sudden, maybe you see a little bit more
guys with their hand in the dirts up near the
(23:21):
line of scrimmage. Maybe maybe rawless does change things a
little bit. Being adaptable something Jonathan Ginnon loves to say,
whether you're on offense or defense. What's it gonna take
for us to win that particular week? Do we need
four down linemen? Do we need three? How many times
last season late when they needed to have a pass rush,
there was one or two defensive linemen with their hand
(23:45):
in the dirt because they had to figure out they
had a manufacture. They had to scheme up pressure. But
going back to what you said about the Philadelphia Eagles
just rushing four.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Okay, well what four?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
And then how many different ways can you rush for
and make it not look like it's four. Maybe it
looks like it's five or six, but guys are peeling
back and all of a sudden the quarterback is confused.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
It was later in the year and it was Zaving
Collins in the Big Red Rage told us just how
often he been sucked inside to a five technique or
three technique on an obvious passing down at six, five,
two seventy, And they would, you know, Nick Rawls would
be very creative with Xaving Collins, big dude who can run,
because we also see him in deep coverage at times.
(24:26):
And then I started watching the last month of the
year and like, man, it's even more exotic and creative
than I even realized, because a lot of times that
sort of stuff kind of gets lost in the wash
and the chaos at the point of attack. So to
your point, once again, okay, do you put six? Do
you put seven on this final roster? We do know this.
Jonathan Gannon has said more than once he loves to
(24:48):
keep those linemen fresh, and so if they had a
legitimate talent pool who all deserved to have a jersey
on game day, then I think they would. I think
they would find room because I think that's the way
ultimately they want to play, bringing in waves, just like
the Eagles did in Suit Bowl fifty nine.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I'm curious because we always talk about that rotation, but
you look at how many snaps Josh Swett played last season,
Dalvin Tomlinson played last season. They were all on the
field for sixty percent of the defensive snaps. David Collins
played fifty five percent. He was the highest among outside linebackers.
There was no defensive aligneman that played more than fifty
(25:28):
percent of the defensive snaps. So, yeah, you want that rotation,
but maybe that rotation is not a series or a quarter.
But DT comes out, but he's right back in there
after a snap or two. Because again, if you're going
to invest that much money on Josh what and Dalvin Tomlinson,
you want them on that football field. You don't want
(25:48):
them to be cheerleaders on the sideline standing with next
to you, Paul, no offense, but I want to see
Josh Wett on the football field, not chumming it up
with you on the sideline.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Well and Swet says he's a three down guy, So okay,
But to your point, if it's third and one, who
do you want in the trenches a young Darius Robinson
or Dalvin Tomlinson. Certain guys are more suited to certain situations.
So if you have the ability to sub, then yeah,
there are certain guys that are going to go in
based on down and distance, no doubt about it. But
(26:19):
that's why you like to have a variety of body types,
of variety of different guys who you know would be
needed in different situations. So you know that one's interesting.
In terms of other mock drafts that are out there,
what is it? Mel Kiper and the Associated Press put
out their first one, Will Johnson cornerback out of Michigan
going to the Cardinals. I know mel Kiper was on
(26:40):
with Wolf on his radio show in Arizona Sports and
he said, Will Johnson is quote a pick six waiting
to happen. Six to two plus really runs. I mean,
when you read this Scout report, the name that keeps
jumping into my head Jalen Ramsey, big dude, ridiculously athletic,
crazy ball skills, aggressive, So I didn't give it much
(27:04):
consideration when this whole process started. But if will Johnson,
who dealt with injury and sort of had a muted
final year at Michigan, otherwise he'd probably be a top
ten pick if he's there at sixteen, and the Cardinals,
like the Medicals, I could see that happening, especially when
you look at the stinking Rams. Adding Devonte Adams right
another big receiver. We know Pukainakua is a problem. I mean,
(27:26):
you know the Niners, Brandon ayuk Is, he's still in
the trade block, we don't know. And then you know
Jackson Smith and Jigba you know, more of an interior guy,
but he was a headache last year. Obviously, I think
Garrett Williams and Jackson Smith and Jigma are going to
be those guys are going to battle for the next
five years. Mono I mono. But right now in the division,
(27:47):
it's not just about stopping the run, because we know
the Seahawks want to run more than ever and Christian
McCaffrey's going to be back and Kyen Williams. That was
a big improvement by the Cardinals defense this year. But
if they can get that dude who john and again
and Nick Ross can start their game plan every single
week saying, all right, our number one corner is on
your number one receiver, a luxury they have not had
since Patrick Peterson. I could definitely see that happening.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Good size, Well Johnson six' two one ninety. Four you
brought up the injury. Concerns six games played last season
because of a toe, injury and this is a position
that back In, January Matt, MILLER Espn draft expert Mocked
corner to The cardinals with his first round pick and
second round, pick and he got. Mocked and we talked
(28:30):
to him about it When danny AND i were In
indianapolis at the scouting, combine and he mentioned it was
looking at the value of those particular players at sixteen
and forty. Seven now you see mel Kiper junior mockt and,
okay wait a. Second it's one thing When Matt miller does,
it another thing when mel Kiper junior does. It but
what The cardinals have put themselves in position to do
(28:51):
based off their free agency is draft the best player,
available and if It's, corner it would be a little
bit of a surprise it does and fall along the
line of scrimmage that typically we refer to when we're
talking about. Money how do you want to build this?
Team how do you want to? Win you want to
win at the line of. Scrimmage, yet, Well johnson's in intriguing,
(29:11):
prospects AND i know they've invested a lot at that cornerback,
position but there's no Guarantee Starling. Toma there's no Guarantee Elijah,
jones which we haven't seen in a game. Yet he's
going into his second, season really his first though after an,
injury yeah, field rookie. Season so what do you really
have in that cornerback room outside of A Garrett williams
(29:34):
who's done it now.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Consistently is there?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Anyone And Sean Murphy bunting wouldn't put him in that
category because he's more of a veteran that's probably further
away than guys that you want to build. Around AND
i THINK i would not have a problem if cornerback
is the, position because you've set yourself up to take
whoever you think is that number one guy available when your.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Pick is on the. Clock so you Said Matt miller
put out that mock In, january, correct he Has if
we're in the trust tree here and we always are.
THERE i Was polly Pencil, neck and we all fashion
ourselves as, gms and we're standing there training camp and
it's a dog days of, camp. RIGHT i remember having
a CONVERSATION i think it was With wolf on the, sideline,
going you know, what take a looking at this roster right,
(30:19):
here right, now without even having played a preseason, GAME
i would surmise The cardinals go cornerback next year round.
One it just seemed to. Be now over the course
of the, Year Starling THOMAS i think definitely improved and
evolved more than we all. ANTICIPATED i had no idea
(30:39):
until late in the year until he's on the Big
Red rage That Starling thomas ran up four to. Eight
it is pro. DAY i did not know. That and
by the, way, anyone if you want a really well
done story In Starling thomas his, backstory just go to
The cardinals YouTube page YouTube dot com Slash Azy cardinals
and it is worth your twelve minutes of viewing. Time
really one to well done feature by The cardinals video.
(31:02):
Crew Emmy award Winning by the, way this one might
be enlightful. One we'll, see very well done. Yep but
in terms of the cornerback. Position, Yeah Elijah jones total
unknown at this, point he's a year, behind unfortunately because
of all the. INJURIES i Thought Max melton played really
well in his last four or five, games but he's
far from a shutdown corner at this. Point and Then
(31:24):
Sean Murphy bunting is at a. Point you know how
gms like to work a year ahead of tell you
so a year from. Now at this, time as a
Veteran Sean Murphy bunting and the way his contract is,
constructed it could or would make sense to come off
that contract at the end of this coming, season at which,
point you know. Whatever if you took A Will johnson
or some other cornerback On day one Or day two
(31:45):
of this, draft then, boom it would be a natural
just to slide him into that.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Position if A Will johnson is comparable to What Patrick
peterson was capable of, doing and that is takeaway half
the football, field then all of a, sudden, yeah you
have to seriously consider that prospect at, Sixteen Garrett, williams
you keep.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Him in the, slot you move him to.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Outside you Like Darling, Thomas Max melton on the opposite
side of A Will johnson And Keith garrett in the
slot because he's, very very. Good and now all of a,
sudden you've got you've improved your pass, rush which can
only help and benefit those guys on the back. End
so again it's that. Position you're, like wait a, second
it's all about the liner, scrimmage offensive, line defensive. Line
(32:29):
you're gonna give, Us you're gonna mock a, Corner you're
gonna take a corner at. Sixteen he's a second cornerback
off the board on mel Kiper junior's three point. Zero
Travis hunter is the number one corner and he's gonna
play a little offense or you, Know so all of a,
sudden the best corner not Named Travis hunter Is Will
johnson and he's available at. SIXTEEN i, mean that's that's
(32:53):
that's very tempting when you look at what The cardinals
have done and what they're projected as far as the
players that they've already select in the draft a year
ago at the cornerback. Position, now all of a, sudden
you've got that rotation in the. Secondary and, oh by the,
way the head, coach that's his area of. Expertise Cornerback
Jonathan gannon so nobody puts a higher value in that
position than the head coach. Himself but speaking of working
(33:14):
a year, out for, example if you take a corner
at sixteen and that ends up being the ultimate successor
To Sean Murphy bunting a year from. NOW i noticed
in AN nfl Dot com to start the week there's
a four round mock From Chad. Reader and in this,
one SOMEONE i have heard about and read ON nfl dot, com.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
By the, way as The cardinals taking a corner in
round Four Kobe bryant out Of. Kansas now this is
this is the third different spelling Of Kobe. Bryant. Okay
now The seahawks out Of Kobe, bryant which was spelled
different than The, lakers you, Know, superstar this one is
spelled cob.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Ee Brian kobi e correct Like seattle.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Ye so, anyway that's neither here nor. There what's intriguing
is that The cardinals in this mock they Do that's
something we brought up about a month or two, ago
and that is, okay if The cardinals are done with
quantity and leading THE nfl two years, ago and rookie
starts in rookie snaps and then follow that up with
a twelve player draft, class not even including the undrafted
(34:15):
rookie free agents who have made this team over the
last couple of, years from A Starling thomas To amari
De Mercado Elijah, higgins And i'm probably forgetting one or two.
More this, case he has The cardinals trading up to
thirteen and Taking TEXAS o Lineman Calvin, banks and you're,
like wait a, minute they don't need a. Tackle, well hang,
on he has the ability to play. Inside so there's
(34:38):
your guard that you were thinking about. Taking you, Know
Tyler booker toty. Plummeted by the, way, man if there's
one thing that has happened in the last, month ever
since you were at the, COMBINE i Mean Tyler. Booker
when all these mocks, started he was going tenth overall To.
Chicago he was going thirteenth overall To. Miami there's most
mocks now don't even have him in the first. ROUND
(34:59):
a COUPLE i saw had him fallen all the way
to The lions at twenty. EIGHT i could definitely see.
That and the only thing worse than that is if
he ends up falling all the way To Kansas city
at thirty one and The chiefs get to Replace Joe
tooney With Tyler booker out Of. Alabama that would be
Vaccine Our chiefs fatigue would only grow exponentially at that. Point,
(35:22):
anyway the point here is At Calvin banks alignment out
Of texas sixty five three point, Fifteen cardinals move up
in this. Mock they would swap their round three For
miami's late round four and they move up three. Spots
and you're talking about a kid who coming out of high,
school top ten prospect. Nationally he was a Freshman All
american and then he was a starter the moment he
(35:45):
stepped on campus all three years including last, year two years,
ago first Team All Big, twelve last, year first Team All.
American and we're talking about the left tackle won The Lombardi,
award won The Outland trophy is the outstanding off defensive
lineman in the. Nation and one skin of REPORT i
looked at On Calvin banks, said arguably his best game
(36:08):
was as a freshman against Will. Anderson let that hang
in the air for a, Minute so, anyway could you see.
THAT i could definitely see That cardinals give up a
little extra because now it's not as much about quantity as.
Quality they get A Calvin, banks they put him inside
at guard for this coming, season and then next year
After Jonah williams has done with his two year, Contract,
(36:29):
boom there's your starting right tackle going forward for the next.
Decade the, position the, player no. PROBLEM i just.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Hesitate, again we only even Seen Manti Austin ford work
the draft. Twice and to move up unless he's moved
back first of, all as he did two years ago
in order to move, up because he did move up
to Get, PARIS i just and when you only have
six draft picks going, IN i get. It that's my only.
(36:58):
Hesitation but, again and going in and the conversations In, indianapolis
the number of people that we talk to that there
is there is not a consensus when you talk about
the twenty twenty FIVE Nfl, draft there's not a consensus
as far who the number one pick, is who the
best quarterback. Is NOW i think there's become more of a,
consensus but it's only by. Default it's not a solid quarterback.
(37:22):
Class but when you talk about that ten to twenty,
range it could go a number of different. Ways someone's
eleventh best prospect could be another team's thirty seconds true best.
Prospect so if but, again if you're sitting there at
sixteen and you see this start, guy he's still on the,
board he's still on the, board then, YEAH i. Would
(37:44):
If i'm a general manager AND i have, conviction or
If i've got a guy's around, me hey we need
this guy, Mania Austin fort will pick up the. Phone
there's no doubt in my mind that he has the
ability to trade. Up it's just that first time would
be the first time in the first. Round now he's
done it other, days but going from sixteen to thirteen
(38:04):
at what costs just depends.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Well in most mock drafts don't have him getting past
The bears at ten because The bears still do need
a tackle and a left tackle in particular to complete that,
rebuild that reset or their offensive line Under Ben. Johnson
or Remember Ben johnson comes from A lions. Outfit that
what they do with their very first draft Pick Brad
holmes And Dan. Campbell they Took Penny, sewell just sort
(38:28):
of like The cardinals with Montiyassa word And Jonathan gannon
Took Paris Johnson. Junior so there's some similarities. There when
you want to build football, tough as we like to
say about The Arizona cardinals and their. Philosophy but if
he's still, There Calvin, banks and will he get Past? Miami,
now a lot of other mocks Have miami at thirteen
(38:48):
taking that offensive. Lineman so that's why you have to come,
up do a deal with The dolphins and try and
get the. Guy perhaps that you would cover it in that.
Regard but, remember here's the, Thing craig about the whole
quality versus. Quantity at least this is What i'm telling.
Myself you tell me If i'm on point with this or.
Not it's one thing when You're maniacibor And Jonathan gannon
and you're cutting other people's draft picks and there's only
(39:13):
three left from the previous four draft classes that preceded
maniacin for. It but because you've had so many rookies come,
in so many acquisitions over the last two, years there's
only so many spots on the final, roster fifty three
of them unless they've changed that as one of the
offseason rule. Changes so it's much more difficult to start
(39:33):
cutting your own guys that you have attachments, to that
you believe. In that you've personally scouted and. Coached so
in that, case if they were to give up a draft,
pick AND i get, it they only have six and
they value them as much as any team in the.
League but if they had to do that to get
that guy to complete the offensive, LINE i think they.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Would here's another name to, Consider Daniel. Jeremiah his three
point zero offensive linemen can play cross the. Board North
Dakota State's Gray zabel six six three twelve love the. Size,
yes it's AN fcs, Program yet here's someone who can
play right, tackle left, tackle can play the guard. Position
(40:14):
going back to the biggest question THAT i think a
lot of us have on that offensive side of the
ball is who's the right?
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Guard?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Now can you plug in a rookie There sandwich next
To Jonah williams Or Kelvin beacham next To yell Defrolt
i'd have no problem with that because you've got veterans
bookending a. Rookie and, again you can kind of get
lost at the guard. Position it doesn't stick out much
like a tackle, would where you get. Beat everyone sees
it kind of hide a little bit as a, guard
(40:44):
especially if you're a younger. Player all, Right Gray zabel
kick him out to the tackle spot after his first
year six, six three. Twelve that's hard to. Move and
he was one Of Daniel jeremiah's big players as far
as The Senior bowl was. Concern in, fact called him
a day one starter and the overall practice player of
(41:06):
the week in The Senior. Bowl that's a poll OF nfl. Executives,
again those practices much more important than the game. Itself
that's Another, again the position just a different, name and
there you would stay at sixteen and select offensive.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Alignment, yeah he had to have it That Senior. Bowl
That Senior bowl week is no more important to anyone
than a guy coming From North Dakota state because you
got to prove it against the big boys from the big.
Schools and he. Did he held his own and then
SOME i saw Or lancero line put a tough guy
profile on this prospect own In North Dakota. State, who
(41:41):
by the, way he played four different positions over his
career in, college and he had ample opportunity to go
to THE fbs to Go division one for big. Money
he said he left a significant amount six, FIGURES i
mean a lot of money on the table to stay
At North Dakota, state play with his, brother try and
get the national. Championship he did do. That he checked
(42:03):
both those boxes and from all accounts they say his
frame at six six three twelve has room for additional
body masks and. Strength so if that's the, case to your, point,
yeah start him, inside kick him outside at some point
early in his, career not unlike A Calvin banks out
Of texas if you want that direction either, WAY i
(42:23):
could easily see The cardinals calling that, name especially when
you hear the two words tough. Guy they like. That
they like that bit of nasty in the. Trenches but then,
again don't forget About Isaiah. Adams to, me that is
the sleeper of the. Offseason where is he in the squad?
Rack how much strength does he put? On as he
had one of Those Zach allen off seasons between his
rookie year and his sophomore year in THE nfl where
(42:46):
he gets, stronger he gets, bigger and he comes back
a totally different. Player because they did like what they
saw In Isaiah adams on the. Film now he just
has to have more than ability to compete and hold
his own strength, wise and they think he definitely has
the ability to achieve that.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
To cornerback and offensive. Line as far as the mock
drafts are, concerned The cardinals did make a couple of
moves since our last, show both at the cornerback position
and offensive. Line Jalen jones has been signed to a
one year deal to bolster up that cornerback, room and
His Ole miss Teammate Royce newman signed a one year
deal to again give That cardinals offensive line more. Depth
(43:23):
not saying either one of these guys are coming in
to be a, starter but at this, point when you're
trying to build that ninety man, roster, yeah at this
point you're gonna see names guys coming. In maybe you
catch lightning in a, bottle or maybe they're that death,
player or As Nick rlis likes to, say someone loses a.
Shoe well you've got someone to come in and play
(43:44):
or start if need. Be like we Saw Jackson, barton
one of those players who hangs around does enough coaches
don't want to see him walk out the, building and
all of a, sudden he's starting a couple of games
for you because guys ahead of him get. Hurt who's
to say if that's Not Royce. Newman this, Season, Hey.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Jackson, barton that one game he, had he didn't make
it through the entirety of the. Game he was somewhere
in the fourth, quarter ran up what the toe, injury
and that plagued him the rest of the. Year but,
hey he graded out pretty well in the coach's. Eyes
and HE i mean at that point he was the
third string right tackle and he came in and he
acquitted himself real. Well Royce newman's. Intriguing you know why
(44:22):
because as a rookie he started sixteen games With Green
bay at, guard and then since his rookie, year the
last three years he Hasn't he's had another eight, starts
but he, obviously you, know the action has been, intermittent
and last year he only got one game of action With.
Tampa so wait a, minute what is still under the?
(44:43):
Hood can The cardinals untap a little bit of? That
is that something where it just was a matter of
a poor, fit you, know the last couple of teams
he's been. With but here's a guy six, five, three
ten fifty two career games and after starting sixteen as
a rookie three years, Ago, hey he kicked the tires
in that and see what he's.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Got twenty three of his twenty four starts have either
been at right guard or left.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Guard there you.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Go so now all of a, sudden you've got and
maybe it's that, position that right guard, position or you're
just flooding. Everybody, okay we've got, three, four five different.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
Guys go. Compete and here's the reality check THAT i
keep telling myself because you, KNOW i, think like a
lot Of cardinals fans and those of us who cover the,
team because we really like not only the, player but
the person is, like Oh, jesus Is Will? Hernandez when
Is Will hernandez coming? Back or, uh guys they are.
White you know, What guess, what it's THE. Nfl it's a.
(45:35):
Business if they haven't returned, Yet i'm not expecting them to.
Return if they, do BECAUSE i have no inside, knowledge then,
great that's. Gravy but as of right, Now i'm proceeding
as if they are not part of the twenty twenty
Five Arizona. Cardinals AND i think is signing like This
Royce newman maybe further solidifies that they got a guy
(45:58):
with starting experience In. Garden let's see what he looks.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Like a week from, today excuse, me a week from
tomorrow Is april, first and the closer you get To
april and Then may and again if you're still that
phone hasn't rung yet and you're a man without a,
team then all of a sudden it becomes, okay maybe
it's closer to training camp before you actually, Sign and
(46:20):
especially someone Like Will hernandez coming off IN acl. Injury
just how healthy are you right? Now and does it
serve the team better to wait a little while to
get see where you're at before they're gonna put pen
to paper and get you to.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Sign who's the guy to look out, for by the,
way among our work colleagues On april, FIRST i, mean
what do you? Think AND i don't know.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
What, well both of us just automatically turn to my
left you're right and are looking At cody behind the. Glass,
Yeah cody fits that profile a little, bit the quiet
guy kind of lives in the. Shadows and then all
of a, sudden boom right out of.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Nowhere, yeah head on a swivel Around. Cody On april,
first who was the who else would be a, prankster a?
Jokester Probably Zach. Gershman, yeah, Yeah. Gershman you KNOW i
could see it some of the stuff he brought out
of the frat house just two short years ago could
find its way into the. Workplace we'll see about That
darren urban sleeper and That, No darren's too, busy he's
(47:16):
got buttoned, Up he's got too much other stuff going,
on you, KNOW i, mean you know he has to
ASSESS hr. Violations he can't be committing. Them so, Yeah
i'm gonna start thinking about. That maybe we'll have a
power pole here. Soon those most likely to be on
the business end of An April fool's, Prank.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Cody Of air just all of a sudden perked up
and when he Mentioned april, first right around the, corner
AND i Believe, paul will you AND i will be
on the Air april.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
First that is Red sea reported as A.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Tuesday so we'll just have to figure out what SoundBite
we might be throwing to and all of a sudden
it throws us under the.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
Bus NO. Kvb But Rob frederson could be that. Guy
Frederick's freddie could be that guy On april. First we'll.
See by the, way you want my favorite Stat i'm
gonna avoid mentioning your dead last right now on the
offense when time out.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Timeout, okay as we come full circle here the last
topic of discussion here On cardinals cover. TOO i am
not dead. Last i'm near last, place not dead. Last
there's a, Distinction. Paul i'm not the last Place San
francisco forty nine. Ers i'm not quite that.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
BAD i. See, okay we'll be, bad just not that.
Bad you. Know what is even worse was the three
point shooting in That Arkansas Saint john's. Game do you
Realize arkansas And Saint john's combine to shoot four of
forty one from three point range in that? GAME i,
mean what is going? On are you? Serious arkansas shot
(48:43):
two of nineteen from three point, range gave up twenty
eight offensive, rebounds and somehow still Beat Rick. PATINO i
don't know how that happens, exactly but it's the beauty
Of march. Madness, so, okay we'll See. Craig there's still
plenty of time to. Go you. Know we look forward
to attaching those two last place to not only The,
niners but To Craig.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Grielow, yeah we'll just have to see how the next
couple of weeks, go and who, knows MAYBE i will
be the last place forty nine.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Ers here On cardinals cover. Too by the, way it
can always get, worse it just. DID i look to my,
RIGHT i see Cam ward's pro day at THE, u
And i'm reminded of the twenty six point comeback he
engineered in the second half against on the road, too
by the, way on the road against someone's Almost saturday,
night STINKING Espn college game day was In. Berkeley we
had it, all we were killing. It the whole day was,
(49:31):
ours and then Cam ward comes back and wins the
game by one. Point it was like thirty six thirty
five or some, ridiculous absolute heart and soul crushing loss
by The alma. Mater i'ven't felt that bad since this
past week WHERE i got food. Poisoning so anyway.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
There, jeez, yeah all, right let's let's give let's Give
paul a. Break he's been through a, lot both here
at working apparently at home. Too so on that, note
we'll put a lit on this edition Of Cardinals cover,
two presented By, hyundai proud partner of The Arizona. Cardinals as,
always special thanks to our executive Producer Jill Mama Hundre
our associate Producer Coddy. Fincher keep an eye On cody
(50:13):
over there For Paul. Calvic I'm Craig Real. Lulu we'll
talk to you next time here On, Cardinals cover, Two
Where's My?
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Chicken? Broth And Graham crackers
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