April 27, 2025 • 19 mins
GM Joe Schoen sits down to recap the 2025 NFL Draft and discuss our seven draft picks.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now we welcome in the general manager of the
New York Football Giants, Joe Shane. Joe, congratulations, you can
get to sleep now at least a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm looking forward to that. Never
sleep this weekend because you're coming off of high and
taking a good player and you're thinking about the next day.
So definitely looking forward to catching up on some rest.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
All right, So let's talk about the guys you guys
managed to bring in over the last three days. Let's
start with a duel Carter. If you would have just
watched him as an edge player, you get one analysis,
but you got the wash him for two years as
an off ball linebacker. First, So how did your ability
to see him play that other position help enhance your
evaluation of him as a guy that you're probably gonna
use more on the edge.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Naturally, when you turn the film on when he was
a freshman, you see him in that eleven Jers, you
automatically think of Micah because you see this guy playing
side to side. He's fast, he's violent, plays his butt off,
he could blitz. He can do all the things that
Abdul did when he was there. So or Micah did
sorry as Micah did. So as you continue to progress
and watch him grow, you knew he was a good
(00:58):
player as a freshman. Then he played a sophomore year
was bawling, you know, off the ball, and then this
year to see him transition to edge and have as
much success as as he did was was very impressive.
And his ability to bend and disrupt and they would
still use him in a various different ways off the ball,
which was also attractive to us with the guys that
we have, that he has the versatility that we can
(01:20):
move him around, move him around with pieces like decks
and Cavon and Burns and Chauncey you know here as well.
So gives us some chess pieces to move around. So
he's going to be an important part of our defense,
you know this coming fall.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Joe, when everybody looks at his tape, they all said, well,
he's a blue chip, so we kind of all see
the obvious stuff. What did you learn about him that
you did not know that enhanced his grade during the
final process of the studying.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, the film, I'm not sure if I could get
any higher on his grade just based off of that.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
But then you meet the kid and he's all ball
like that.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
The amount of information he knew about the New York Giants,
the history of the New York Giants, And when we
were having conversations at dinner or in the building, they
were all football questions. There was no small talk. There's
no worried about his brand or this or that or
where he's gonna live. Like it was all ball. How
are you gonna utilize me? Where do I fit in?
You know all that stuff. You already heard the jersey
number stuff that that came up and got shot down.
So but just his passion for football, his understanding of
(02:15):
the history of the game. And then he's a dog
like he's a he's a tough kid. It's all ball
all the time. And you know, meeting his parents and
getting to know them, and you know the way his
dad trained him when when he was a he was
a kid, and you know, so the work ethics there
he's raised right, and then you can see that come
through with the passion and energy that he plays with.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
We know because he did change positions after the first
two years. He himself said to us and his media
avail that he thinks he's just touched the surface as
an edge rusher because.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
He's only done it for a year.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
When you look at his upside and the development that
he will now have when he gets more reps as
an edge rusher, what do you see there?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, the physical traits are freaky, you know, the initial quickness,
the bend and again a lot of times if you're
bend in the corner against the tackle, they can push
you out behind the quarterback. But he's got a he's
got a freaky ability to flatt into the quarterback and
the you know a little bit like what von Miller
could do, or I was in Miami with Cam Wake,
like the great ones can really been in the corner
and fight that side pressure and and he can do that.
(03:11):
And and like you said, like he's only played the
position for a year. And Charlie Bollen, you know, has
a really good resume. He's he's with a very good
coach and he can help, you know, he can also
learn from Burns and Cavon, you know, with their experienced
Chauncey and then Dray Patterson we had him look at
him too, you know, who was up in Minnesota and
they they had drafted Anthony Barr back in the day,
so you know, that was a little bit of comp
(03:32):
of how they used Anthony Barr when he was in Minnesota.
So he's got notes upon notes upon notes different schemes
in which how they used Anthony Barr. So you know,
again the versatilities is cool, but you know, coming off
the edge, like you're gonna have to know where he is.
You're gonna have to know where he is, and then
you have to know where Dex is and you're probabing
know where Burns is and caveon. So it's gonna be interesting,
you know how it all comes together. You know it
(03:54):
looks good on paper right now, but you know they
gotta they gotta gel as a team in a union,
and you know, we got to figure out how to
get everybody on the field.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
All right, let's jump to Jackson Dart quarterback evaluation question
in general, something we've talked a lot about our programming
this year. We have access to watch video, but we
don't have the access of the players that you do,
and we always talk about how difficult it is, I think,
to figure out how a quarterback processes and makes decisions
if you don't know what the coach is teaching them
to do. And what they're being told to do. So,
what are the tools you guys use to kind of
(04:20):
get to the bottom of that, get beyond the film?
Is to talk to the college coaches. Is when he
meets with Daves on the visits. How do you kind
of get inside the processing decision making part of the
quarterback position, which really might be the most important stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, it starts in the I mean it'll start probably
next week. We'll start looking at next year's guys. It's
always an emphasis for us to look at the future
class of quarterbacks that we can map out our fall
and go go watch them. So you're gonna watch the film,
You're gonna go see live games, and our scouts do
a phenomenal job of going to the schools and utilizing
their resources to get the background on the players, because
that's important. You're the quarterback of a franchise or the
face of a franchise. How you interact with staff members,
(04:55):
how you represent you know, whichever university you play at,
how you treat your teammates, your leaders, those are all
things that are very important that we get from the
schools in the fall, and then you know, we transition
into our own process once the season's over, which starts
at the Senior Bowl where we can meet with the
players and bring up their film and exactly what you said,
what what are you looking at here?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
What do you call this? Can you recall your place that?
And then we'll get into our own stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
And that's where you know, I believe, I really believe
in our process, and it's a little bit more stringent
maybe than most in terms of how we test these guys,
what we put them through. And you know that starts
when we bring them on thirty visits or we go
you know, for privates. But it's apples to apples. Everybody's
getting tested the same way.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
So whether it was all the.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Way back the first time Daves and I did this
was Andy Dalton, Ryan Mallett, Blaine Gambert, some of that draft,
all the way to you know, even last year's draft
when we took Josh Allen, So it's tested over time.
It's again, it's apple to apples. So everybody's put through
the same thing, and you know it's proven to to uh,
you know, be successful. A lot of the players that
that ace the process have went on to be really
(05:59):
good quarterbacks in the league. So it's it's the film,
it's the person, it's the leadership, it's you know, the capacity,
the mental capacity that you know that you have to
have at the quarterback position.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And then specific to Jackson, he's playing in a system
run by head coach that used to be in the NFL.
Joe Judge is there, and I think link Kiffin does
a really good job of setting things up for the
quarterback right, open things up, make some of these decisions
a little bit easier. So how do you take Jackson
out of the structure he's in an old miss and
figure out how he's going to operate in a different
(06:31):
structure in a different system here with the Giants.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, every position we evaluate, we always say it's a
projection business. You know, as a college scout, your job
is to project what that's going to look like. In
the NFL, pro scouting is a little bit easier. Hey,
if I want to go watch Paulson Dedibo, let me
go watch him against a really good receiver in the league. Okay,
so it's you know, you're watching pros versus pro.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And also in a specific scheme you can find too, right.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, all right, let me go watch all his prep
press reps, versus Pro Bowl receiver, you can go do that,
where college you have to project. So what we try
to do is you're going through the film, we'll do
cut ups or we'll talk about it. Okay, where the
anticipatory throws. Where is he throwing before a guy gets
out of his break, because you're going to have to
do that at our level. Where is he going from
first read, second read, third read? Where is he stepping
up in the pocket? Where is a linebacker about to
(07:15):
put his helmet right under his chin and he stands
in there and delivers. So our po offense, whatever it is,
if guys are running wide open, you maybe fast forward
past those plays, but where are the plays that are
going to look like what they're going to look like
on Sunday and how does he perform in those situations?
So you do that every year with the quarterbacks, because
you know, these college offenses are different. They're going tempo.
Sometimes it's like seven on seven. They're not getting pressured,
(07:36):
so it.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Was almost like the same seven to ten concepts and
they just kind of spam them just from different formations.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Right exactly, it really is. And again when they go
quick and they don't get pressured at time, that's great.
They should be able to complete those passes. But what's
suit out with Jackson as you go through it? Like
talk about a guy that'll stand in there, stare down
the barrel, take a hit, and deliver the ball accurately.
You know, there's a lot of clips of those, you
know on film, So that's what it's going to be
like on Sundays, Joe.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You set yourself up by getting the veterans in the room,
which you told everybody you were going to do, so
you don't have to rush Jackson door into the lineup.
But as you develop him during his rookie season, Dave's
is going to figure out how the practice schedule is
going to work and how many reps he gets. But
what will you look for as you see his rookie
season progress? What are the developmental keys that you will
(08:23):
want to see because I'm sure as the months go on,
you're going to want to make sure his progression and
his learning curve is what you want it to be.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You always expect growing pains, especially with a young quarterback.
I mean, it's gonna happens that these guys are bigger, faster, stronger,
You have more on your plate mentally, So there's gonna
be growing pains. How does he react when the growing
pains occur when you throw an interception? And when the
media gets on you in your first practice and you
come out here and you throw two interceptions your first
day account and they will and you're you're a bust
and you're never gonna play.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
How do you react?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So how's he gonna how's it gonna react when the
diversity strikes or people are getting on him? And then
to me, it's more about 'abolishing a pro routine and
how to go about your week. And you know, you
really got to be structured at the quarterback position because
you have to know so much. You know, it's different
in college where you mainly put in two or three
more plays in a week. It's still the same offense
(09:14):
where it's weak to week here, like we may be
putting in fifteen to twenty new plays or you know,
whatever it may be. So to me, it's really him
coming in. We're fortunate to have the two veterans that
are here. Tommy was a young player a couple of
years ago, so you know, I could see Jackson just
really sitting back looking how these guys, you know, approach
their weekly process, and to me, that's the biggest thing
for him. You know, come up with a process and
(09:35):
then execute it and just be ready to go, like
he has to prepare like he's going to play because
you never know when injuries occur. So to me, that's
the biggest thing for him.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
All right, well we'll run through these reat of these
guys a little bit quicker here. Darius Alexander older prospect,
twenty five, but I think he's going to be twenty five.
But when you look at the tape, I think in
a smaller school obviously not as big of a weight
program as we'll have her in the NFL. But also
you see so many tools and you see so much
room for growth of how he's going to use those tools. Right, So,
how did you kind of play an older prospect against
lesser competition but also there's so much promise here for
(10:06):
him to get better. How did you kind of waive
those two things against each other.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, we've uh, you know, three techniques usually go and
they go pretty quick and then you know, like Milton
Williams this year in New England got twenty six million dollars.
So these guys are getting paid a lot of money,
so you know, you always think, hey, if we can
find somebody you know that can rush next to Dexter,
because there's a lot of times there's four hands on him,
theyre sliding to him and and they're you know, they're
double team name. So, uh, we're always looking for interior
(10:30):
pass rush and this is a player that we identified
in the fall brandan proffat our area scout did a
really good job early on, so we could get eyes
on him, and you know, then seeing him at the
Senior Bowl, that's where again sometimes schematically they're asked to
read and react. Maybe they're not allowed to get upfield
and get on edges and work pass rush moves, and
that's just the way some of the schemes are. So
once we were able to look at him at the
(10:51):
Senior Bowl and the one on one staggered stance, get
off the ball, rush the passer, you can see all
the physical tools there, and then you know, we're fortunate
to have a coach like you know, Andre Patterson and
Brian Cox here too, who have a history of developing
young players and are motivated to work with a guy
like Darius. So you know, we're excited to see him.
We have a lot of depth there. We have some
veteran players that he can learn from as well, and
(11:13):
you know, we can bring him along slowly if we
need to.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Joe, one of the things that struck me when I
saw you got him was because of some of his versatility,
as well as the veterans that you signed in free agency.
With versatility, I wondered how much of that was a
priority in your off season as you added defensive line
to give your defensive coordinator a Shane Bowen, an opportunity
to do more mixing and matching and moving guys around
(11:37):
than you could last year.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, definitely, the more jobs you can do, the better
it is, and the more hats you can wear, it
easier it is for Shane. So it allows us to
free up a Dexter or a Burns or a Cavon
or Chauncey or you know now with Darius or you
know Abdul. So like, you got a lot of guys
that you can do a lot of different things on defense,
So go into it necessarily thinking about that. But we'll
(12:03):
keep at you know, that's where it was last time.
I'm like, we're add another three technique and Chauncey can
rush inside and decks, and like, let's just let's just
keep adding them. Let's just keep adding good football players.
You can never have enough pass rushers inside or outside.
So to say, hey, it was you know, going to
the off season, Hey we're just gonna bolster the defense
and use all of our you know, a lot of
our resources.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
For that, that wasn't the case.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
But you know, like I said, in free agency, if
there's not top tier guards, or there's not a number
one receiver or number you know, sometimes those players don't
get to the market. So you're at the mercy of
what the market is is presenting itself, and we're fortunate
to get, you know, a starting corner and a safety
and some other debt pieces.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
So you know, that's the way it worked out.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
But I'm excited about the pieces we added, and Darius
would be a big part of the team this fall.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
At the combine, Joe, so many people make a big
deal about the forty yard dash, especially with the running backs.
I wonder running backs, they're not running in a straight
line for forty yards very often. To me, it's making
guys miss breaking tackles and short areas, and that's what
Cam Scattaboo is really excelled at. When you compare the
over all top speed versus that kind of short area stuff,
which is more valuable and why for the Giants?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, the short area is obviously important. There's different type
of backs as you go through the draft. Hey, if
you need a third down back, this guy's one hundred
and ninety five pounds. He can catch out of the
backfield and go. And then you have a scatterboat category
where you know this guy is. Again, he may have
not ran as fast as is people wanted him to,
but his his ten times really good. He's got a
thirty nine and a half inch vertical so the short
(13:27):
explosive between the tackles, he has all of that. He
has all that, not to mention, you know, the physicality,
the strength, the contact balance really stands out with him.
And it's not like you can't run tass sweeps with
him and stuff like that, because you can. And his
vision's really good and he's got really good hands. So again,
you're sitting there all last night, I couldn't sleep, and
I'm like you, just like, the guy's a football player.
The guy's a good football player, like you can never
(13:48):
go wrong and good football players. And that's how I
feel about the kid, Like you sleep good at night
because he's going to do everything he can do for
the New York Giants, who can go out there and
perform it his best, and he's a darn good.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I wonder about that other part of the personnel file there, Joe,
because sometimes it's the intangibles also that can put a
guy maybe a little bit over the top from somebody who.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
May have been evenly graded.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Scattabooz strikes me as a guy who brings a lot
of that Brandon Jacob's atmosphere to Giants fans from years ago,
where he makes one of those physical runs and maybe
knocks a guy over, like the whole team gets inspired
by it. It's almost like he can electrify a spark.
Is that part of what you enjoyed knowing about him?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Absolutely, And you see it and he gets up and
he's got some swagger to him, which is which is cool.
But you think about what we've added over the last
few years. You know, THEO is a dog, he's tough
as all get out, Tyrone Tracy Maleik, and then you
add a Scatabo, you know, and then Dart and we gotta,
we gotta, we gotta walk him back a little bit.
I mean he's, you know, him running linebackers over like
I don't really want him doing that. But like, these
(14:52):
guys play with a certain mentality, and we wanted to
add tough guys that love football and are passionate about it.
And you can see it and all those guys I
just mentioned, you can see it in all their play
and you know on the college tape, you know that
really stands out, you know with Dart and scatabow when
the balls in their hand, they're carrying it. Whatever it
may be, just the toughness, the physicality and the love
(15:14):
for the game.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Let me combine Bow and Fidoni into one question here.
What struck me about both guys as how athletic they are.
Bow's feet maybe not the longest arms, but man, he
can move. He's very agile. And then you know Fidoni's
coming from a system in Nebraska or maybe not a
ton of production, but man, his testing was great and
you watch him at the Senior Bowl. He could move.
Is that when you're getting late in the process, so
you're looking for those guys with those traits that you
(15:36):
think you can develop into something here.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
You always tell the coaches like you know, they want
give me something I can't coach. Okay, well you can't
coach for four or what you know, whatever it is
or feet like that. You know, it's hard for me
to improve somebody's athleticism, you know, you can't do that.
Their toughness like you know, you can't improve that. So
there's some technical things that coaches can improve, but you
know six five, two sixty or you know, the size,
you can't. So so both of those guys, you know,
(16:02):
have the athleticism and the traits that that you look for.
Bo you mentioned the arm link. Now, we measured these
guys several times. So his arms were thirty three at
an All Star game. They came back at thirty two
and a half. Right, so we had him on a visit.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
They're thirty three, so okay there it was just finish. Yeah, yeah,
we did it ourself. His arms were thirty three.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, and then we actually Tim Kelly went out to
Nebraska and did a private workout with Thomas and got
to spend time with him, and he was at the
Senior Bowl and Angela Baca before she left. So again
the last two years, hats off to the coaching staff.
You know, early January, they get an opportunity to coach
these games and they're all for it, and they go
down there and they coach these kids on their free
(16:41):
time when the rest of the staff is off, and
it's invaluable information that we get when they can bit
around these kids. So, you know, hats off to Daves
and his staff, and you know, obviously my scouting staff
does a great job as well. But that that's a
competitive advantage for me that that I really appreciate the coaches,
you know, taking advantage of.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Final player was Correy Black. The corner that you guys
took a lot of people have the reception that when
you get to the seventh round you're looking for like
special teams. Guys, he did play some special teams and
did well at it. How much of these corner skills
also were a part of your decision to take him?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah, he's got a chance to do both. Yeah, special teams.
When when when you.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Look at our current depth chart and you know seventh
rounders a lot of time, how do you go to
the game, Well, you need to be Goby's best friend
and play special teams and this kid has a history
of it. So again, speaking of the coaching staff, those
guys up there do a phenomenal job, Cam, Stephen Thomas
and Gobi. The amount of players that they watch throughout
the draft that they may or may not play on
(17:33):
special teams, but they'll go watch their offense or defensive
film and project based on their play style. So uh,
they cover the draft A to Z. They do so much,
it's great. And he was a guy that they pointed
out and said, hey, we'd like to work with this kid.
I mean six foot, he's two hundred pounds, he ran
four to three. Again, what can I coach? You can't
coach that into him. So you know a guy, a
(17:54):
high weight, speed guy that has special teams value and
can also play on defense. He's a he's a he's
a press corner that's physical in the run game. So again,
you look for trades that you can develop and give
them a chance to hang on the roster. And both
of those seventh round picks, you know, check those boxes.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Joey, we appreciate the time you got a n upstairs.
You guys are already calling on drafted free agents. I'm sure,
is this a much thicker UDFA class because you have
the last year of COVID, all the extra years and
it's just a larger draft class. Is this going to
be a better group of udfa's in general than we've
seen the last couple years.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's it's funny because we normally have about one hundred
and forty players on our board. This year and I
was complaining to the scouts all loong we had about
one hundred and sixty five guys, so we had twenty.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Five more players on the board.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And as we kept going through in the meetings, I'm like,
we got way too many guys in the fifth round,
we got way too many guys in the six like,
this is too many, it's too money, it's too money.
And we get to the seventh round and god, every
player that is on our board is in the seventh round,
and we've got like six names.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
So it worked out that.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You know, again we had more names, but there were
more draftable players. So the free agent class may not
be as good. But again we've we've been able to
find you know, Ryder Anderson the first year Chat last year,
you know, came in made the team. That was as
an underacted free agent, so you know, Tommy DeVito made
the team. So there's players that that you can find
that you know, become contributors for the team. So you
know we're gonna we're gonna go up there and that's
(19:11):
where the scouts can make their money happy hunting.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Go get them, Jill, thank you very much, appreciate the time.
Joe general manager of the New York Football Giants,
And now we welcome in the general manager of the
New York Football Giants, Joe Shane. Joe, congratulations, you can
get to sleep now at least a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm looking forward to that. Never
sleep this weekend because you're coming off of high and
taking a good player and you're thinking about the next day.
So definitely looking forward to catching up on some rest.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
All right, So let's talk about the guys you guys
managed to bring in over the last three days. Let's
start with a duel Carter. If you would have just
watched him as an edge player, you get one analysis,
but you got the wash him for two years as
an off ball linebacker. First, So how did your ability
to see him play that other position help enhance your
evaluation of him as a guy that you're probably gonna
use more on the edge.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Naturally, when you turn the film on when he was
a freshman, you see him in that eleven Jers, you
automatically think of Micah because you see this guy playing
side to side. He's fast, he's violent, plays his butt off,
he could blitz. He can do all the things that
Abdul did when he was there. So or Micah did
sorry as Micah did. So as you continue to progress
and watch him grow, you knew he was a good
(00:58):
player as a freshman. Then he played a sophomore year
was bawling, you know, off the ball, and then this
year to see him transition to edge and have as
much success as as he did was was very impressive.
And his ability to bend and disrupt and they would
still use him in a various different ways off the ball,
which was also attractive to us with the guys that
we have, that he has the versatility that we can
(01:20):
move him around, move him around with pieces like decks
and Cavon and Burns and Chauncey you know here as well.
So gives us some chess pieces to move around. So
he's going to be an important part of our defense,
you know this coming fall.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Joe, when everybody looks at his tape, they all said, well,
he's a blue chip, so we kind of all see
the obvious stuff. What did you learn about him that
you did not know that enhanced his grade during the
final process of the studying.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, the film, I'm not sure if I could get
any higher on his grade just based off of that.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
But then you meet the kid and he's all ball
like that.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
The amount of information he knew about the New York Giants,
the history of the New York Giants, And when we
were having conversations at dinner or in the building, they
were all football questions. There was no small talk. There's
no worried about his brand or this or that or
where he's gonna live. Like it was all ball. How
are you gonna utilize me? Where do I fit in?
You know all that stuff. You already heard the jersey
number stuff that that came up and got shot down.
So but just his passion for football, his understanding of
(02:15):
the history of the game. And then he's a dog
like he's a he's a tough kid. It's all ball
all the time. And you know, meeting his parents and
getting to know them, and you know the way his
dad trained him when when he was a he was
a kid, and you know, so the work ethics there
he's raised right, and then you can see that come
through with the passion and energy that he plays with.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
We know because he did change positions after the first
two years. He himself said to us and his media
avail that he thinks he's just touched the surface as
an edge rusher because.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
He's only done it for a year.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
When you look at his upside and the development that
he will now have when he gets more reps as
an edge rusher, what do you see there?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, the physical traits are freaky, you know, the initial quickness,
the bend and again a lot of times if you're
bend in the corner against the tackle, they can push
you out behind the quarterback. But he's got a he's
got a freaky ability to flatt into the quarterback and
the you know a little bit like what von Miller
could do, or I was in Miami with Cam Wake,
like the great ones can really been in the corner
and fight that side pressure and and he can do that.
(03:11):
And and like you said, like he's only played the
position for a year. And Charlie Bollen, you know, has
a really good resume. He's he's with a very good
coach and he can help, you know, he can also
learn from Burns and Cavon, you know, with their experienced
Chauncey and then Dray Patterson we had him look at
him too, you know, who was up in Minnesota and
they they had drafted Anthony Barr back in the day,
so you know, that was a little bit of comp
(03:32):
of how they used Anthony Barr when he was in Minnesota.
So he's got notes upon notes upon notes different schemes
in which how they used Anthony Barr. So you know,
again the versatilities is cool, but you know, coming off
the edge, like you're gonna have to know where he is.
You're gonna have to know where he is, and then
you have to know where Dex is and you're probabing
know where Burns is and caveon. So it's gonna be interesting,
you know how it all comes together. You know it
(03:54):
looks good on paper right now, but you know they
gotta they gotta gel as a team in a union,
and you know, we got to figure out how to
get everybody on the field.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
All right, let's jump to Jackson Dart quarterback evaluation question
in general, something we've talked a lot about our programming
this year. We have access to watch video, but we
don't have the access of the players that you do,
and we always talk about how difficult it is, I think,
to figure out how a quarterback processes and makes decisions
if you don't know what the coach is teaching them
to do. And what they're being told to do. So,
what are the tools you guys use to kind of
(04:20):
get to the bottom of that, get beyond the film?
Is to talk to the college coaches. Is when he
meets with Daves on the visits. How do you kind
of get inside the processing decision making part of the
quarterback position, which really might be the most important stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, it starts in the I mean it'll start probably
next week. We'll start looking at next year's guys. It's
always an emphasis for us to look at the future
class of quarterbacks that we can map out our fall
and go go watch them. So you're gonna watch the film,
You're gonna go see live games, and our scouts do
a phenomenal job of going to the schools and utilizing
their resources to get the background on the players, because
that's important. You're the quarterback of a franchise or the
face of a franchise. How you interact with staff members,
(04:55):
how you represent you know, whichever university you play at,
how you treat your teammates, your leaders, those are all
things that are very important that we get from the
schools in the fall, and then you know, we transition
into our own process once the season's over, which starts
at the Senior Bowl where we can meet with the
players and bring up their film and exactly what you said,
what what are you looking at here?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
What do you call this? Can you recall your place that?
And then we'll get into our own stuff.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
And that's where you know, I believe, I really believe
in our process, and it's a little bit more stringent
maybe than most in terms of how we test these guys,
what we put them through. And you know that starts
when we bring them on thirty visits or we go
you know, for privates. But it's apples to apples. Everybody's
getting tested the same way.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
So whether it was all the.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Way back the first time Daves and I did this
was Andy Dalton, Ryan Mallett, Blaine Gambert, some of that draft,
all the way to you know, even last year's draft
when we took Josh Allen, So it's tested over time.
It's again, it's apple to apples. So everybody's put through
the same thing, and you know it's proven to to uh,
you know, be successful. A lot of the players that
that ace the process have went on to be really
(05:59):
good quarterbacks in the league. So it's it's the film,
it's the person, it's the leadership, it's you know, the capacity,
the mental capacity that you know that you have to
have at the quarterback position.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And then specific to Jackson, he's playing in a system
run by head coach that used to be in the NFL.
Joe Judge is there, and I think link Kiffin does
a really good job of setting things up for the
quarterback right, open things up, make some of these decisions
a little bit easier. So how do you take Jackson
out of the structure he's in an old miss and
figure out how he's going to operate in a different
(06:31):
structure in a different system here with the Giants.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, every position we evaluate, we always say it's a
projection business. You know, as a college scout, your job
is to project what that's going to look like. In
the NFL, pro scouting is a little bit easier. Hey,
if I want to go watch Paulson Dedibo, let me
go watch him against a really good receiver in the league. Okay,
so it's you know, you're watching pros versus pro.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And also in a specific scheme you can find too, right.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, all right, let me go watch all his prep
press reps, versus Pro Bowl receiver, you can go do that,
where college you have to project. So what we try
to do is you're going through the film, we'll do
cut ups or we'll talk about it. Okay, where the
anticipatory throws. Where is he throwing before a guy gets
out of his break, because you're going to have to
do that at our level. Where is he going from
first read, second read, third read? Where is he stepping
up in the pocket? Where is a linebacker about to
(07:15):
put his helmet right under his chin and he stands
in there and delivers. So our po offense, whatever it is,
if guys are running wide open, you maybe fast forward
past those plays, but where are the plays that are
going to look like what they're going to look like
on Sunday and how does he perform in those situations?
So you do that every year with the quarterbacks, because
you know, these college offenses are different. They're going tempo.
Sometimes it's like seven on seven. They're not getting pressured,
(07:36):
so it.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Was almost like the same seven to ten concepts and
they just kind of spam them just from different formations.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Right exactly, it really is. And again when they go
quick and they don't get pressured at time, that's great.
They should be able to complete those passes. But what's
suit out with Jackson as you go through it? Like
talk about a guy that'll stand in there, stare down
the barrel, take a hit, and deliver the ball accurately.
You know, there's a lot of clips of those, you
know on film, So that's what it's going to be
like on Sundays, Joe.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
You set yourself up by getting the veterans in the room,
which you told everybody you were going to do, so
you don't have to rush Jackson door into the lineup.
But as you develop him during his rookie season, Dave's
is going to figure out how the practice schedule is
going to work and how many reps he gets. But
what will you look for as you see his rookie
season progress? What are the developmental keys that you will
(08:23):
want to see because I'm sure as the months go on,
you're going to want to make sure his progression and
his learning curve is what you want it to be.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You always expect growing pains, especially with a young quarterback.
I mean, it's gonna happens that these guys are bigger, faster, stronger,
You have more on your plate mentally, So there's gonna
be growing pains. How does he react when the growing
pains occur when you throw an interception? And when the
media gets on you in your first practice and you
come out here and you throw two interceptions your first
day account and they will and you're you're a bust
and you're never gonna play.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
How do you react?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So how's he gonna how's it gonna react when the
diversity strikes or people are getting on him? And then
to me, it's more about 'abolishing a pro routine and
how to go about your week. And you know, you
really got to be structured at the quarterback position because
you have to know so much. You know, it's different
in college where you mainly put in two or three
more plays in a week. It's still the same offense
(09:14):
where it's weak to week here, like we may be
putting in fifteen to twenty new plays or you know,
whatever it may be. So to me, it's really him
coming in. We're fortunate to have the two veterans that
are here. Tommy was a young player a couple of
years ago, so you know, I could see Jackson just
really sitting back looking how these guys, you know, approach
their weekly process, and to me, that's the biggest thing
for him. You know, come up with a process and
(09:35):
then execute it and just be ready to go, like
he has to prepare like he's going to play because
you never know when injuries occur. So to me, that's
the biggest thing for him.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
All right, well we'll run through these reat of these
guys a little bit quicker here. Darius Alexander older prospect,
twenty five, but I think he's going to be twenty five.
But when you look at the tape, I think in
a smaller school obviously not as big of a weight
program as we'll have her in the NFL. But also
you see so many tools and you see so much
room for growth of how he's going to use those tools. Right, So,
how did you kind of play an older prospect against
lesser competition but also there's so much promise here for
(10:06):
him to get better. How did you kind of waive
those two things against each other.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, we've uh, you know, three techniques usually go and
they go pretty quick and then you know, like Milton
Williams this year in New England got twenty six million dollars.
So these guys are getting paid a lot of money,
so you know, you always think, hey, if we can
find somebody you know that can rush next to Dexter,
because there's a lot of times there's four hands on him,
theyre sliding to him and and they're you know, they're
double team name. So, uh, we're always looking for interior
(10:30):
pass rush and this is a player that we identified
in the fall brandan proffat our area scout did a
really good job early on, so we could get eyes
on him, and you know, then seeing him at the
Senior Bowl, that's where again sometimes schematically they're asked to
read and react. Maybe they're not allowed to get upfield
and get on edges and work pass rush moves, and
that's just the way some of the schemes are. So
once we were able to look at him at the
(10:51):
Senior Bowl and the one on one staggered stance, get
off the ball, rush the passer, you can see all
the physical tools there, and then you know, we're fortunate
to have a coach like you know, Andre Patterson and
Brian Cox here too, who have a history of developing
young players and are motivated to work with a guy
like Darius. So you know, we're excited to see him.
We have a lot of depth there. We have some
veteran players that he can learn from as well, and
(11:13):
you know, we can bring him along slowly if we
need to.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Joe, one of the things that struck me when I
saw you got him was because of some of his versatility,
as well as the veterans that you signed in free agency.
With versatility, I wondered how much of that was a
priority in your off season as you added defensive line
to give your defensive coordinator a Shane Bowen, an opportunity
to do more mixing and matching and moving guys around
(11:37):
than you could last year.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, definitely, the more jobs you can do, the better
it is, and the more hats you can wear, it
easier it is for Shane. So it allows us to
free up a Dexter or a Burns or a Cavon
or Chauncey or you know now with Darius or you
know Abdul. So like, you got a lot of guys
that you can do a lot of different things on defense,
So go into it necessarily thinking about that. But we'll
(12:03):
keep at you know, that's where it was last time.
I'm like, we're add another three technique and Chauncey can
rush inside and decks, and like, let's just let's just
keep adding them. Let's just keep adding good football players.
You can never have enough pass rushers inside or outside.
So to say, hey, it was you know, going to
the off season, Hey we're just gonna bolster the defense
and use all of our you know, a lot of
our resources.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
For that, that wasn't the case.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
But you know, like I said, in free agency, if
there's not top tier guards, or there's not a number
one receiver or number you know, sometimes those players don't
get to the market. So you're at the mercy of
what the market is is presenting itself, and we're fortunate
to get, you know, a starting corner and a safety
and some other debt pieces.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
So you know, that's the way it worked out.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
But I'm excited about the pieces we added, and Darius
would be a big part of the team this fall.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
At the combine, Joe, so many people make a big
deal about the forty yard dash, especially with the running backs.
I wonder running backs, they're not running in a straight
line for forty yards very often. To me, it's making
guys miss breaking tackles and short areas, and that's what
Cam Scattaboo is really excelled at. When you compare the
over all top speed versus that kind of short area stuff,
which is more valuable and why for the Giants?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, the short area is obviously important. There's different type
of backs as you go through the draft. Hey, if
you need a third down back, this guy's one hundred
and ninety five pounds. He can catch out of the
backfield and go. And then you have a scatterboat category
where you know this guy is. Again, he may have
not ran as fast as is people wanted him to,
but his his ten times really good. He's got a
thirty nine and a half inch vertical so the short
(13:27):
explosive between the tackles, he has all of that. He
has all that, not to mention, you know, the physicality,
the strength, the contact balance really stands out with him.
And it's not like you can't run tass sweeps with
him and stuff like that, because you can. And his
vision's really good and he's got really good hands. So again,
you're sitting there all last night, I couldn't sleep, and
I'm like you, just like, the guy's a football player.
The guy's a good football player, like you can never
(13:48):
go wrong and good football players. And that's how I
feel about the kid, Like you sleep good at night
because he's going to do everything he can do for
the New York Giants, who can go out there and
perform it his best, and he's a darn good.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I wonder about that other part of the personnel file there, Joe,
because sometimes it's the intangibles also that can put a
guy maybe a little bit over the top from somebody who.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
May have been evenly graded.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Scattabooz strikes me as a guy who brings a lot
of that Brandon Jacob's atmosphere to Giants fans from years ago,
where he makes one of those physical runs and maybe
knocks a guy over, like the whole team gets inspired
by it. It's almost like he can electrify a spark.
Is that part of what you enjoyed knowing about him?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Absolutely, And you see it and he gets up and
he's got some swagger to him, which is which is cool.
But you think about what we've added over the last
few years. You know, THEO is a dog, he's tough
as all get out, Tyrone Tracy Maleik, and then you
add a Scatabo, you know, and then Dart and we gotta,
we gotta, we gotta walk him back a little bit.
I mean he's, you know, him running linebackers over like
I don't really want him doing that. But like, these
(14:52):
guys play with a certain mentality, and we wanted to
add tough guys that love football and are passionate about it.
And you can see it and all those guys I
just mentioned, you can see it in all their play
and you know on the college tape, you know that
really stands out, you know with Dart and scatabow when
the balls in their hand, they're carrying it. Whatever it
may be, just the toughness, the physicality and the love
(15:14):
for the game.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Let me combine Bow and Fidoni into one question here.
What struck me about both guys as how athletic they are.
Bow's feet maybe not the longest arms, but man, he
can move. He's very agile. And then you know Fidoni's
coming from a system in Nebraska or maybe not a
ton of production, but man, his testing was great and
you watch him at the Senior Bowl. He could move.
Is that when you're getting late in the process, so
you're looking for those guys with those traits that you
(15:36):
think you can develop into something here.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
You always tell the coaches like you know, they want
give me something I can't coach. Okay, well you can't
coach for four or what you know, whatever it is
or feet like that. You know, it's hard for me
to improve somebody's athleticism, you know, you can't do that.
Their toughness like you know, you can't improve that. So
there's some technical things that coaches can improve, but you
know six five, two sixty or you know, the size,
you can't. So so both of those guys, you know,
(16:02):
have the athleticism and the traits that that you look for.
Bo you mentioned the arm link. Now, we measured these
guys several times. So his arms were thirty three at
an All Star game. They came back at thirty two
and a half. Right, so we had him on a visit.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
They're thirty three, so okay there it was just finish. Yeah, yeah,
we did it ourself. His arms were thirty three.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, and then we actually Tim Kelly went out to
Nebraska and did a private workout with Thomas and got
to spend time with him, and he was at the
Senior Bowl and Angela Baca before she left. So again
the last two years, hats off to the coaching staff.
You know, early January, they get an opportunity to coach
these games and they're all for it, and they go
down there and they coach these kids on their free
(16:41):
time when the rest of the staff is off, and
it's invaluable information that we get when they can bit
around these kids. So, you know, hats off to Daves
and his staff, and you know, obviously my scouting staff
does a great job as well. But that that's a
competitive advantage for me that that I really appreciate the coaches,
you know, taking advantage of.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Final player was Correy Black. The corner that you guys
took a lot of people have the reception that when
you get to the seventh round you're looking for like
special teams. Guys, he did play some special teams and
did well at it. How much of these corner skills
also were a part of your decision to take him?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah, he's got a chance to do both. Yeah, special teams.
When when when you.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Look at our current depth chart and you know seventh
rounders a lot of time, how do you go to
the game, Well, you need to be Goby's best friend
and play special teams and this kid has a history
of it. So again, speaking of the coaching staff, those
guys up there do a phenomenal job, Cam, Stephen Thomas
and Gobi. The amount of players that they watch throughout
the draft that they may or may not play on
(17:33):
special teams, but they'll go watch their offense or defensive
film and project based on their play style. So uh,
they cover the draft A to Z. They do so much,
it's great. And he was a guy that they pointed
out and said, hey, we'd like to work with this kid.
I mean six foot, he's two hundred pounds, he ran
four to three. Again, what can I coach? You can't
coach that into him. So you know a guy, a
(17:54):
high weight, speed guy that has special teams value and
can also play on defense. He's a he's a he's
a press corner that's physical in the run game. So again,
you look for trades that you can develop and give
them a chance to hang on the roster. And both
of those seventh round picks, you know, check those boxes.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Joey, we appreciate the time you got a n upstairs.
You guys are already calling on drafted free agents. I'm sure,
is this a much thicker UDFA class because you have
the last year of COVID, all the extra years and
it's just a larger draft class. Is this going to
be a better group of udfa's in general than we've
seen the last couple years.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's it's funny because we normally have about one hundred
and forty players on our board. This year and I
was complaining to the scouts all loong we had about
one hundred and sixty five guys, so we had twenty.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Five more players on the board.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And as we kept going through in the meetings, I'm like,
we got way too many guys in the fifth round,
we got way too many guys in the six like,
this is too many, it's too money, it's too money.
And we get to the seventh round and god, every
player that is on our board is in the seventh round,
and we've got like six names.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
So it worked out that.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You know, again we had more names, but there were
more draftable players. So the free agent class may not
be as good. But again we've we've been able to
find you know, Ryder Anderson the first year Chat last year,
you know, came in made the team. That was as
an underacted free agent, so you know, Tommy DeVito made
the team. So there's players that that you can find
that you know, become contributors for the team. So you
know we're gonna we're gonna go up there and that's
(19:11):
where the scouts can make their money happy hunting.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Go get them, Jill, thank you very much, appreciate the time.
Joe general manager of the New York Football Giants,
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