April 8, 2025 • 53 mins
On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk sits down with Charles Davis, Analyst for NFL on CBS, to go through some draft scenarios, talk about the best value at pick #3, and discuss his favorite prospects on day two of the NFL Draft.
:00 - Quarterbacks in the draft
12:55 - Value at pick #3
16:50 - Draft scenarios
29:26 - Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter
38:42 - Last draft scenario
42:15 - Rapid fire questions
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants huts.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Let's go. Let's Giants on the Giants bubbling, give me
some job.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's roll all right.
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants. You
welcome in What If CBS is Great? NFL Analysts, future
college football analyst, I should say, number one college football analysts,
the one and only Charles Davis. You can also find
on NFL Network past the draft is started up, he'll
(00:28):
be on that. He'll be on NFL Networks draft coverage
as well. Charles, It's always great to talk to you, man.
How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm wonderful. John. It's always great to talk with you.
And you know, we get to do this on camera
a few times a year, but it's even more fun
when we just, you know, just hang out and talk.
And I'm gonna treat this the way we do, when
we're just kind of talking about whatever is out there.
If that's okay with you, that's when I have the
most fun.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well that sounds great. Look, the Giants play a couple
AFC teams this year. Maybe we'll get you done. On
a couple of those games. That'll be fun. By the way,
we're talking to Charles live from the Sack and maridin
Hell podcast studio. Keep getting better. So, Charles, the way
I did this this year, everyone's gonna hear your thoughts
on prospects, on path to their draft and everything. I
really want to focus on it on the Giants. So
I dove into the PFF Simulator draft simulator, and I
(01:14):
messed around with some of the settings, and I did
three different drafts. So I'm gonna kind of give you
the three ones I came up with. First, I'm gonna
let you pick which one you like the best, and
then we'll kind of kind of break them down. Who
is available, what the Giants thought process should be to
really maximize the value they're getting out of this draft. Okay,
so fan should know we're recording this on Friday morning.
(01:35):
It's probably not airing until early next week, so it's
before the should or Standers pro Day, just so everyone
kind of has that leveled out in terms of expectations here.
So before we get it to going this, Charles, I'm
gonna give you a real basic question to start. I've
asked every person I found on the show the same question.
Because every draft is unique, every draft is different. What
makes this draft different and unique to you? And how
(01:55):
will that change what it looks like when it happens
in about two and a half weeks.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
This feels a lot more like what year was It
was twenty thirteen? Was that Eric Fisher Luke Jokol at
the top?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
That was the bad one?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And I don't want to sit here and say good,
bad and different. I'm just saying where the concentration is right,
where the focus is. Obviously, quarterback is going to carry
the day no matter what. If there's one quarterback in
the draft, we're gonna lead with that. Correct, That's just
how it is because the game is quarterback centric. We
know that. But if we're.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Talking about overall value, where the top players are, what's
going to define the first round in terms of numbers,
it's gonna be bigs, right, Defensive.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Lineman, edge rushers all included in that, mainly offensive lineman
trying to counter them. This is the old Bear Bryant
bum Phillips rush theirs protect yours, right? So is it
that sexy draft that we always wanted to have? Like
last year? Six quarterbacks in the first twelve picks. Doesn't
(03:04):
feel that way, but Biggs, and then as we get
into the draft, is the running back really back in
the game where we're going to have that run on runners?
And if so, when does it begin? Second, third, fourth round?
Whatever's going to be a lot of talented runners out
there that are going to come into the league. But
(03:26):
in terms of quarterbacks receivers, plenty of receivers, but not
as highly ranked as before.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I think you're looking for a number two receiver, Charals,
You're going to be very happy. There's a lot of
great number twos on Day two have a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And quarterbacks, yes, but again after last year, not the
same ranking going in.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
We might see more Day two quarterbacks, I think in
this draft, Charles, and maybe I can remember, I mean
you might have a half dozen. There's going to be
a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I think you're right. And what round are we talking
to on day because Day two is rounds two and
three kind of there's a feel going in. Maybe I'm wrong, John,
You remember when it was Malik Willis, Desmond Ridder, can
he picket? And all sorts of conversation. Could someone rise
(04:19):
all the way up to top ten, top five? Could
someone do that? Remember Malik Willis got hot at one
point he was on a heater going in. But when
it was all done, when the dusk set cleared, can
you pick it went in the first round of Pittsburgh?
Was he twenty twenty one somewhere in that neighbor And
then Malik Wilson Desmon Riddar didn't go to the third round?
Remember when will Levis had the was on the heater
(04:41):
and he was walking in on draft night? Could he
be a top five selection? Ended up going to second
pick of the second round. It almost feels like more
like that. And is it the second round or is
it the third round? When the run begins on these quarterbacks?
We'll see no.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Absolutely. I think it's interesting. So why don't we start
the quarterbacks first before we go to the scenario? Charles?
If you're the Giants, how do you maximize your value
here at the quarterback position? Obviously, I think Joe Shane
has successively hedged his bets and I'd like to get
your take on that too, with Russell Wilson and Jamis Winston,
so they're not like, all right, we got to get
a guy to start, right, away or we're finished. You know,
Russell Wilson went over five hundred with the Steers last year.
(05:17):
That's fine. So is it number three? Is it top
of the second round, which I think might be rich
for some of these guys, but they might not get
to the third round, or do you risk waiting to
the third round and then pick a guy there? So
how would you say, if you want to get a
quarterback as a developmental player, where is the value going
to meet the actual group of players that's in this
(05:38):
draft class for the Giants?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
John, great question, and here's where I would go with it.
You remember my first mock draft when I said Jackson
dart number three over.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Oh you are trolling people with that, Charles. I love that, bod.
You just wanted to get people all upset. It was fantastic.
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
People lost their minds.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Oh it was great. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But you know what was weird about that was that
was about a week before free agency. Okay, So I
just wanted about to understand, like, I don't control the
tides in the sun and the moon and all that.
I'm not that I'm not that crazy, right, I'm not
big Old Mortensen in Gi Gene. Okay, but what I
did know was in a week things are going to
(06:16):
be different. So it's a week before, right. The reason
I put him there was this reason. I had a
strong sense that the Jets were gonna fill theirs. I
was eager to see if the Raiders were going to
do anything. And I already had in my pocket that
New Orleans with the GM right with Mickey Loomis. He
(06:39):
already said we're good with Derek Carr, so I'm taking
him at his word. Right, So in the top ten,
these are now filling up. So now there's pressure. If
you don't get your quarterback early, when do you get it? Right?
Because John at that point, from ten to twenty one,
I couldn't find a place for him. He won is Pittsburgh.
(07:02):
That's where you could find a place. That's where I
put him in my second Bock draft. Was it likely?
You and I both know no? The answer was no
right from the word go. But you and I have
also been around this league long enough. Have we not
seen quarterbacks pushed up when you don't expect them to be?
Have you not seen quarterbacks go like what he went? Where? Right?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Christopher just looked at Michael Pennix and Bonix last year, right,
they probably want to hire them. Then we thought they would, We.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Thought they might go. So you just don't know. Now
obviously we all thought that was really really rich, and
it was. I was just saying, as a scenario, could
someone get that desperate? Potentially? Probably not. So back to
your point, I think you're coming back in the second round.
If the guy that you like or one of the
two guys you don't you like have not gone, I'd
(07:48):
hop on him as fast as I could in the
second round and hedge because your bets are heads. You
already mentioned it. If you think there's a guy for
the future that you can get top of the second round,
if you like Dart and he hasn't gone, if you
like Milroe and he hasn't gone, if you like Shuck
and he hasn't gone. Whoever it is you're throwing in
there that you think is possibly my quarterback for the future,
(08:11):
go get it, because look at the Super Bowl numbers.
Brady is your outlier as a sixth rounder. Russell Wilson
is an outlier as a third rounder. Brock Perty's an
outlier as a sixth rounder. But the people who win
super Bowls. That's first and second round. Folks. Not saying
every first second rounder has been great. They haven't. But
(08:33):
you're much more likely to get your guy early than
you are gonna hit your number late. It just doesn't
work very often.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Of that second group of guys, I know the two
guys I want to shoot for upside with quarterback, right Charles.
So I'm looking for traits that I can develop. Gial
Mirrou is someone that I think is a long way
to go. I think he has to sit a whole year,
maybe more, But that's a guy I would think about it.
I think top of the second might be a little
rich for me, but again, you might have to just
to get him. And then I have completely red pilled
myself on Tyler Shuck's agent injury history, and I just
(09:06):
love watching his tape this year. It looks like an
NFL offense. He throws like an NFL quarterback. He's big,
he can move. I talked to him that at the
Senior Ball, I talked to him at the combine. He
just feels like an NFL quarterback to me. And again,
even I know he's gonna be twenty six, I don't
care about quarterback age. I know he has the injury problems,
and yes, but it's weird stuff. Broken collar bone, somebody
(09:27):
rolled up, broke his leg. What are you gonna do?
I don't know. I just see something there that maybe
I don't even see with the darts and even to
an extent the Shadoor Sanders.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, let's let's stay right there on Tyler Shuck. Because
you've done your homework. You know everything about it. Your
fans know about it. Because I keep telling everybody, don't
forget the people who watch and listen to us. Because
we're lucky enough to do these jobs. They're doing our job,
just they're just not on air right right. They study it,
(09:56):
they can watch it, they can watch game tape now. Right.
The access information is better than it's ever been. So
if you're sitting around with just a with a fan
and they tell you they like a certain person, and
you go, well, you know how much you have you
actually seen, all of a sudden, they're whipping out their
write ups of six game tapes they've broken down. That's
what we have to keep reminding ourselves. Our fans are
(10:18):
better educated than ever before, and God bless them. Right,
we're lucky enough we get to do this on air.
But shuck, Remember he left Oregon justin Herbert was there, Okay,
Texas Tech, right, I mean, he just kept moving on
to find a place. Louisville, as you pointed out, was
(10:39):
the first place that he had an injury free year
and got to play the entire season. But he started
at different places, was impressive at different places. Injuries hit him,
and as you said, a lot of them unfortunate injuries,
much more so than being injury prone. And this is
a kid who's got a chip on his shoulder because
he keeps thinking he's getting overlooked. But while he was
(10:59):
doing all this, I believe he got four different degrees.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Did he really? I didn't know that. He did just
go and.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Sign up for you know, the underwater basket weaving. He
went and took classes, did all his things. He's married,
he's mature. Did you want you watched him at the combine?
Did you notice when he was doing things at the
combine with his throwing? He wasn't just going back? Was
it three three with a hitch? Five five with a hitch?
Did you notice the stuff he was doing?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
He was moving his feet, different arm angles, the whole
nine yard he was.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
He was essaying what he might face in a regular
ball game. This is a mature young man. He's ahead
of the curve that way. In fact, he was having
a pro day during the Combine. He was already there.
I give him a lot of credit for that. And
he's a terrific thrower of the football. I'm with you.
I don't care about the age anymore. Right, by the way,
(11:51):
at twenty six, he's two to three years younger than
Chris Wanky and Brandon Weeden, who were both dressed.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Look, you're still going to get a second contract down
on men to get himrough the whole second contract. It's
gonna be fine.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I like him. Jaylen Milroe, I feel for because I
thought he had a terrific college career. I thought the
Michigan game in the Orange Bowl killer for him, right,
played well, didn't go well. We were there for the
week in Mobile wasn't his best week. I thought he
threw it better at the Combine, definitely threw it better
(12:24):
at his pro dad. And he has Remember you used
the word traits. His traits are just sure. Maybe Anthony
Richardson comp he was right, but also kind of hurting
him right now. But his answer would be hold on
a second way more college experience than Anthony Richardson had.
The Colts were trying to play Anthony Richardson into experience,
(12:46):
but he kept getting hurt, so that experiment has fizzled
so far. And now he's in a battle with a
guy you know quite well and Daniel Jones, so to
be interesting to see how it goes. But I like
both of them because Milroe, big strong arm kid, can
run himself out of trouble, run you into big plays,
all of those things, and when he's on, it's pretty
all right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Last one on the quarterbacks, and then we'll go through
our scenarios here, Charles, and I don't think this is
as simple of a question as possible. I know it's
probably not as simple simply based on value and getting
the best players you can and coming away from a
draft with the best players you can. If you're choosing
at three, and the Giants will probably have this choice
between should or Sanders, and either Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter.
(13:30):
I'm having a hard time in my own head making
the case for Shoud or Sanders, and I understand position value.
Talk me through that and how you would think about that,
you know, And I can't say regardless of quarterback need
because that's such a big part of this. But if
I'm looking to just get the best player, I'm having
trouble getting over that hump for me.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, that's a tough one, isn't it. All Right, let's
work through it and I'll try and be quicker for
once in my life.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Now, you're good.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Joe Shane, by all accounts, you general manager of the Giants,
to spend a lot of time in Bulder, Colorado. Right,
he could probably pay taxes, probably has a place there. Right,
He's done his homework. My guess is that Joe Shane
has spent a lot of time a number of places
doing his homework on quarterbacks because Joe Shane is going
to be thorough on what he's doing. Okay, so he's
(14:15):
done that. So what it comes down to is very
simply this, John. If Joe Shane and his organization has
conviction that Shadora Sanders is there, guy, you take him done.
Because the idea that you take the wrong quarterback and
your set and you and you're set back five to
ten years like the old days. It's just following.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Josh Rosen has taught us that right, and he rolled
up went ten. The very next year, he's gone, and
they drove Kyler Murray at one and they never look back.
And I don't hear anyone talking much about cap strapped
or you know, the Cardinals franchise will say, it doesn't
work that way anymore. You keep swinging til you get
your guy. Okay. So that's the first. If that's conviction
and you like him, you take him. The second one
(14:58):
is now the of the Giants franchise city fans is defense.
Do people long to go to the game and chant defense,
defense and have people doing their thing? That says a
dual Carter. But this is also a franchise. It needs
some real excitement, It needs some juice, It needs some
things pumped into it. That's Travis Hunter. Because I'm just
(15:20):
gonna tell you, out of thirty two NFL owners or
ownership groups, my own personal straw poll in my head,
high twenties, if you sign Travis Hunter, draft Travis Hunter,
they're gonna say, put him on offense. Put him on offense.
I whant I'm touching the football. I want to make
in dynamic plays that I can sell, and you guys
(15:44):
figure out the defensive side. Others will say, well, I
want to play them my defense. Have a package for
him on offense. Either way you're going to do it.
But I'm just telling you the kid's excitement and I
think he is going to be a heck of a player,
especially when he's not playing one hundred and fifteen plays
per game. But John, you watched the tapes. How many
times did you see a big play from him down
(16:05):
the stretch on play one hundred and twelve? Yeah, offense
or defense, he hung in there. So mentally, that's a
strong young man. So that's the way I look at it.
The DNA of the Giants's defense, the excitement level needs
to be pumped up one hundred kind of feels like
the pick to me. But I can understand why you
(16:28):
go out Dual Carter there if you're deciding Shador Sanders
is not your quarterback.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
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Speaker 2 (16:52):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I don't know, but citizens? Does? It makes sense of
your money with citizens Official Bank of Eli Manning fair enough? No,
I think that's fair. And if you have conviction, you're right,
you do have to take it. And you're right you
can move on the next year. We saw with Kyler
Mouriy and Josh Rose, and I'm with you. I think
that's I think that's I think you made the best case. Absolutely.
All right, let's go through our scenarios here, Charles, and
(17:15):
here's what I got for you, all right. I ended
up doing four drafts to kind of give you a
feel for different options the Giants might have. The last
one I'll give you is my little one. I'm just
picking the players that I like, and I'm curious to
see what you think about it, because that's fun and
why we're here to have fun.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Put Jackson, I put Jackson Dart at three? Am I
going to be looking at anyone and making a judgment?
Do I have any room to be judge? The answers no, home.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I appreciate that, Charles, thank you, all right. So let's
go through it here, all right. The first draft I
did this was the cam Ward and Travis Hunter in
the simulator went one and two, okay, So when you
moved on to the to the next group here, I
ended up picking Abdul Carter at three over Sanders Jackson
(18:01):
Dark got to the Giants in round two. I did
through the first four rounds Jihnanys have two third round picks.
I got Shamar Turner and Jamari Caldwell kind of a
pass rushing DT and then a run stopping DT with
picks two picks in the third round. And then I
picked LSU swing lineman Emery Jones in round four as
kind of a guy that can play a little bit
of guard and play a little bit of tackle. Okay,
(18:24):
So that's number one. You give me your feel for
that before we go on to the next one.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Real good feel for it. I like where you're going
with that, especially the two defensive linemen because you got
one to specializes in one thing and one in another.
And I think that what I'm learning about college pass
rushers is oftentimes they are better in the pros. And
I wish I could understand why, because the numbers in
college don't really support a lot of these guys, right.
(18:52):
I keep going back to Neil Hunter had four and
a half sacks in his college career at LSU, and
he's gonna go down as one of the best pass
rushers we've ever receive. So I just don't know how
to really quantify it. Af Dul Carter took care of
us this year because he gave his numbers in addition
to the talent. Remember the year before when it was
Chop Robinson, you had four and a half sacks. John,
(19:12):
we were trying what what what? But the second half
of last year in Miami, he was really really good.
So I really like where you're going to think. Stuart
is a guy on the rise that way, and Carlwell's
gonna hold things down inside. So I really like that.
And then Emery Jones. We're getting these LSU linemen that
are versatile, tough, you know, they play, they play against
(19:33):
big time people each and every week. And I thought
Jones acquitted himself nicely in Mobile, especially in those one
on one periods where the challenge was thrown down and
he accepted it. What was it Baron Sorrow the pass
rush from Texas where they had their duels, but he
didn't back down from them, and I really liked that
about him.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
No, I'm with you, all right. So that's draft number one.
Draft number two. The first two picks there are Warden Sanders,
all right, Sanders of the Browns, which I don't feel
like has a lot of legs right now, but you
never know. Wolf the Waite and see how that goes.
I took Travis Hunter first overall in that draft. I
took Darius Alexander out of Toledo in round number two.
(20:15):
I got Jalen Milroe at the top of round three,
and again, maybe that's degenerous, but I'm just going by
the simulator. I picked Dion Walker, who, by the way,
I talked to Mike Renner yesterday. He does a great
job analyzing the draft for CBS. He told me an
agent told him that Dion Walker was playing with a
fracture in his backlash year, so just look into that
because I had not heard that before. And he said, look,
(20:35):
just one person told him, and he's not, like, you know,
doesn't sure about it. But I thought it was interesting.
And then I picked u Oloa femi Ola Dajo with
the Giants fourth round picks. That's Hunter, Alexander Milroe, Walker
and Ola Dejo. I think, by the way, just body
type wise has a ton of only one years an
edge player. I think he's a ton of upside there.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
See. I think that when you got down to him,
you may have seen me spark a little bit. That
where I got excited was Oladeo from from from Ucla.
Everything's in front of him. You nailed it one year
as an edge rusher. I'd been a linebacker, right, hadn't
hadn't really done all of this stuff. Look, John Campbell,
who will go very high out of Alabama, has been
(21:16):
an off the ball linebacker because they were trying to
find a place for him to play. They wanted him
to be an edge rusher. But who was there? Who's
the guy in Minnesota Turner, Dallas Turner, in Houston Will Anderson.
They couldn't find a spot for him, Okay, play linebacker.
And then what did they do with him last year?
Moved him and played it. So that's why I was
(21:37):
excited about Oladeo because I love where you're going with that.
The the the Boomer Bust with Danyon walker out of Kentucky.
I think is a legitimate conversation. I don't use boomer
bus very often because I hate feeling like I'm putting
something on a kid that shouldn't be there until it's
proven one way or the other. But it does feel
(21:58):
that way with him. He is a man, a young man.
If he was playing with a back fracture last year,
God bless him because now you know you got a
toughness factor to him. But how much rubble is he
going to create that helps you when you have to
rush the passer? Because that's what I'm worried about in
the NFL until further notice, aren't many teams that press
(22:20):
the run like Philadelphia does. It just stays with it,
stays where he stays with it. So we shall see.
But I like what your simulators spit out. If Milroe
goes in the top of the third, which might be
where he should go.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I think that's where he should go. I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I mean, to me, that's a big time get right
there for the giants. I just don't know if people
are gonna be able to resist themselves, because I think
everyone's gonna talk themselves into if I don't get my
q Q. Now someone's gonna snatch them, you know, very
soon after.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Couldn't you just see Charles like at the end of
round two, the Ravens picking them back up, Lamar Jackson
like like or the Eagles to back up Jalen Hurts like.
It's just that's the type of thing that a good
organization is going to do, and he'll develop for that team.
It'd be great in five years.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Absolutely listen. An underrated move maybe Dallas trading for Joe
Milton to back up Dak Prescott.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Were you surprised they only got a five for him?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Not at all about it, because he was a six
and the reason he was a six was on God,
he is gorgeous and the potentials off the charts and
when he throws the football at my go eighty yards.
But he had never been consistent starter at Michigan, couldn't
keep the job started at Tennessee, couldn't keep the job
one year of real starting production. It was really pretty good.
(23:37):
Didn't run it the way you would expect the guy
to run it. But I'm gonna tell you why. I
give that young man credit. The little known story when
he lost a job at Tennessee to Hendon Hooker. I
think it was halftime at the pit game against Kenny Pickett,
if I remember correctly. Do you know whose roommate was,
I do not Hendon Hooker. They were roomies. Oh and
(23:58):
by the way, stayed roomies. This kid found a way
to support his room bait after losing the job. You know,
it has a bitter disappointment, hung in there, supported it,
played through, watched Hooker, and then came back and got
it on his last year. There's something there about about
Joe Milton that you need to explore, and that's a reason.
(24:20):
But I'm not surprised it was only a five. I
know you had that big one game at the end
of the year. Matt Flynn had a big one game too, okay.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And it was against backups. You remember, the Bills did
not need that game, which I think.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
All that being said, I wishing nothing but success. He's
a terrific young man and I think going to Dallas
is a really good spot for him.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
All right, So the third draft, that ISID all right,
I'm gonna do Shud or Sanders here because I think
that's an option and I want to see what the
rest of the class looks like if you get your
door right, so should or Sanders was my pick at
the top Round one, top round two. I figure you
got to get your run defense a little bit better,
so I took Tyler Williams, the big defensive tackle out
of Ohio State State yep. And then I figured, well,
Chador is not the most mobile guy in the world,
(25:01):
so I better protect him. So Tate Ratledge out of Georgia,
the guard. He was there in round three, so I
took him. Great facial hair, by the way, and I'll
use the guy with that type of facial hair. He
had the mullet tube too, great mullet for an offensive lineman.
Mulletsuge the definitely bump you up a grade.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
And the best summer ressault at the Combine December. At
the end of every every session, they'd run to the
end zone that the group would run the ends on.
Someone would do backflips and sides and round offs and
he's like, we're offensive line and he does a summersault.
At all.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Jokes aside, he actually ran really well, like he was
a really good athlete at the cobs.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Very fluid, you know, a Georgia kid. We're used to
these monstrous Georgia guards right the Ben Clevelands of the world.
He's not small, but way more fluid than I'm used
to sing. I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, Jamari Sali are another big, big defensive lineman that's
not the smoothest guy. But this kid, he was loose
and easy.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
In his movements.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Now I'm with you. Then I Ashton Jelot out of
Louisville with the next pick uh, because I think he
can give you a little bit of edge rusher man
and a three technique pass rusher.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Again, I tried to get the run stopper with Williams
and I get a three techniqueass rusher with a lot.
I thought that was a good one. And then I
took Jayden Blue out of Texas as a kind of
big play guy to put next to Tracy. Will be
your first and second down guy, and Blue is kind
of your receiver speed guy to give you a little
bit of juice in the passing game.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I like it. I mean, I like where you're going
with that. I'm this isn't a counter but Jaden Blue
Brashard Smith at SMU Yeah right, yeah, type of a
guy Smith, much more of a pass receiver because he
was Tyrone Tracy wide receiver, kick returner of Miami. Goes
(26:48):
to SMU with with with rhtt Lashley when he left
and became the head coach, flips over the running back.
So it's a low dometer, But what's it? What are
his roots catching the football? So you know he can
do that on a down. But I really like where
you're going with Jayden Blue on that one. I love Ratlice.
That's a big time get to me because I think
he's gonna be a heck of a player for someone
(27:09):
because of his movement skills. I think that's really really
big and important. But it's a very interesting simulator that
you've got. I probably like the first two scenarios just
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Better, so do I I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Okay, just because of everything you're getting out of it.
The Chador Sanders one is just going to be fascinating
for all of us when we turn in our last
mock drafts. Where exactly do we think he'll land? Because
you made a point earlier, John that for the longest time,
it felt like one two cam Ward Shador Sanders, Shador
(27:46):
Sanders cam Ward. Right now we've hit that critical mass
time as we approach the draft where it feels like
they're separation because we love to use that word. Cam
Ward feeling much more like Tennessee is going to go
in that direction, and Cleveland we thought had to have
a quarterback. I mean, one of our colleagues, Mary Kay Cabot,
(28:06):
who covers the Browns as well as anyone covers anyone
in the league, she said to me, I just don't
know how they leave here without taking a quarterback. But
it doesn't feel that way to us outsiders watching, does it.
It certainly does not feel like they are locked in
that they have to take a cue at two, which
makes me wonder do they feel like they've got something
(28:29):
in place for someone who's out there that we just
don't know yet. Is that a kirk Cousin's move that
they feel like, hey, we can go get him in Atlanta,
Because it doesn't feel like Aaron Rodgers to me, Aaron
Rodgers is either Pittsburgh or the real wild card is
Minnesota is not dead yet. That's the wildcard, which I
think is crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Man, Like you use the thirteenth overall pick on JJ McCarthy,
Why are you bringing an Aaron yeah, and it isn't
my organization. I don't get it, but I don't. I
don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
On to me. That's why they have it already, because
if they were convicted that, hey, Aaron's gonna make us
because they won fourteen games last year and got nowhere
that might be turn it. We gotta get this guy,
might get us to where we're supposed to go. The
Jets thought that too, didn't work for them, but the
Jets weren't working off of a fourteen game win season
(29:22):
and your quarterbacks not back. But I think it's ultimately
going to be McCarthy because I really feel like if
they'd wanted Rogers, they would already done it. And they
may kick it around a little bit more, but it
just certainly feels like they're trending towards McCarthy taking over
that job.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
All right, So I think then we're talking about our
first two scenarios here. So I think this is what
will get interesting, right, is it Abdul Quarter is a hunter?
And which does the playout better for the Giants and
how they're building their team. So we'll go through the
two scenarios again. We'll compare seOne, which will be like better.
So you got Abdul Quarter, Jackson Dart, Shamar Turner, Jamari Caldwell,
Emery Jones. This is a trench draft, right you want
(30:00):
compete with the Eagles, you want to compete with the Cowboys.
You get two defensive tackles, one of each kind of class.
You get Abdul Carter on the edge, you get Emory Jones,
who can play offensive line. Well, you know, I think
he's more of a guard than a tackle. And then
you get the quarterback in Jackson Dart. So I think
you're really trying to compete in your division with that
type of group. Right now the other group, this is
(30:22):
a little bit more flash to it now. All right,
So you got Travis Hunter and Jaln Mirrow. Miro's the
third round guy, but those are the two offensive players.
Then on defense you have Walker Alexander instead of Walker there,
I think you could have picked like Peebles or Pegeese,
you know, one of those guys, you know, another kind
of run stopper if you prefer that. And then I
gave the edge player Ola Dajo from from UCLA. So
(30:46):
I'm just curious, Charles, do you think to help you
become a more competent football team and coming off of
three one year, that's what you want to be, right,
You want to become a better solidify your foundation, and
continue to build for you. When you look at these
two groups, does it make more sense to go with Hunter,
who again can help you in potentially in two different spots?
(31:08):
JU said, why that? Or do you go with Carter
and then just throw all your resources at the defensive front?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I like, I like that one, I really do. And
as much as I love Hunter, and I'm like, who
wouldn't if you're watching him play, if you're getting that
pass rusher now and you already have one on board
that you that you want fully activated to Thibodeaux. Right,
So you're trying now to bookend your pass rush. You're
(31:34):
helping your defensive front, right, and you're going along that way,
and you're also gonna help whoever's playing quarterback, and you
get a chance for Milroe to develop. Right. That's kind
of where right? Is that what I have it?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Right?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Or do I have is that the Dart one?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Uh? No, you would you at Dart? But you know what,
I could be easily giving you a millrow with that too.
It's okay, because you want.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
No, it's okay, whether it's are at our milra. They
don't have to come in and do this right away. Right,
And this is what we talk about every year with quarterbacks,
and we know it's folly because if you get picked
in the first round, you're gonna probably play at some point. Again,
outliers Mahome's not playing his rookie year except for Week
(32:19):
eighteen or whatever. It was. Outlier, right, Carson Palmer major
outlier sitting behind John kitting though I went back to
Steve McNair who sat for the better part of two years.
He made six starts in the first two years, but
that was their injuries. I think it was Chris Chandler
and then he took over year three. Most of the time,
(32:40):
if you and I are the GM, we go to
the podium and we say, listen, we got a veteran.
He's gonna take time, blah blah blah, and by week
three he's in. Right. It just kind of how it works,
how it goes. You and I both know if you
got draft quarterback in the first ride is likely going
to play. If he's gonna be drafting the top fifteen,
he's definitely going to play. If it's gonna be in
(33:00):
the top five, he's probably gonna start day one.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
And by the way, we talk about Milroe needing time
to just I think a lot of the mechanics and
stuff on us throwing and just getting a lot of
that stuff set is important. I think it's underrated how
much Jackson Dart needs to sit a year.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
It's a different style of what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
You watch that offense, Charles, There's not a lot of
NFL things going on. And by the way, I know
that Pat Summer was his OC. There's not a ton
of pro stuff going on in the Colorado offense either.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, for a lot of the youngsters coming in. And
I'm no quarterback guru, but having watched over time, mobility
is such a factor in our game now and Dart
is mobile, right. You see plenty of quarterback run stuff
and him running for first down. Chador is not a statue.
(33:49):
He wants to play more from the pocket, but he can.
He can hot foot it out of there and get you,
get you some.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Stuff, sometimes too much, by the way, but he does
the problem.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And let's use Kle Williams as our case study from
last year. They are so good at the college level
when you're playing not all NFL guys, you're playing a
lot of guys who are college players. I was probably
a college player by what an NFL got. So there
are a number of us out there running around and
guess what, you're winning that battle every week. Then you
(34:22):
get into the NFL. And Russell Wilson told me the
story last year. He said, his first year, it was
early in the season and he started to do the
stuff he did in college, and oh, yeah, I just
move here and I get here, and all of a sudden,
he said, I'm on my back now because they run
you down like that. It's a different speed. These guys
all think they can keep plays alive, create something else.
(34:45):
And so when you see sixty eight sacks against Caple
Billiams and goes Man, that offense line's awful. They weren't
the greatest offensive line, but there's no way this. All
sixty eight sacks are on them. Quarterback holding the ball,
extending to play, not realizing fight another down as good
A lah TB twelve, A lah Peyton, a lah Dan Marina.
(35:06):
All those guys like, yeah, we'll come back next play.
Get it. These guys keep it alive and the sack
numbers go up, up, up, up up, And that's part
of the part of the issue. They have to learn
to speed up their process, and they do so.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I guess before I give you my fun one that
I just picked the guys that I like, and I
want to get your take on it. If and I
don't think the Giants will have a choice between Carter
and Hunter. I think one of those guys will be
off the board and the decision will be made for them,
which I think in some ways is great because it's
out here control, right if you had the choice. Charles,
So you're the Giants, Do you take Carter a Hunter?
At three?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
My roots are defense? But I'm I'm taking Hunter?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Ah, so did I. You're gonna see it like do
my room? How do you use him?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Now?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's the tricky part.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
He's playing offense for me initially. I've got packages for
him on the defensive side. I want to be very,
very careful about what I'm doing with this youngster because
he's going to want to do everything because he's used
to doing that. This is a different world and I'm
not saying he can't. But there's also no reason for
(36:13):
him to do it full time right from the word go.
And then I've got a kid floundering because don't forget
there's meeting time involved. There's technique time that's involved, there's
learning your craft that's involved, there's time on task that's involved.
And in college, he's so superior that he can do
a lot of these things without having as much of
all I talked about being part of it. All right,
(36:35):
he's just better than us, and he's going to be better.
But now if I'm taking him, if I'm on offense,
I develop him as a better route runner, I develop
all the skills necessary with that. I have enough meeting
time that when I want to hand in the ball
on a jet sweep, he knows that play. I want
to bring him back to the backfield like Jamar Chase
and do some stuff with him there. I'm not going
(36:56):
to run him his hard like Deebo Samuel whe I'm
going to run power with him coming inside, but I'm
gonna have all this stuff that he's gonna spend that
time with. And by the way, there will be a
package on defense that's a lot easier to adjust to.
Remember Isaiah Simmons coming out of Clemson.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
We had long conversations about him, and they still haven't
figured out where to play the guy.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
And John, I'm pretty sure that in our conversations we
talked about that and at some point, because this has
been my mantra for a long time, be careful of
what I call whiteboard fever. Whiteboard fever is a coach
up on the board saying, oh this guy, I can
play him here, I can play him here, I can
use him here, I can rush him here, I can
(37:37):
drop him here. And you know what, you have one
very confused young man.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
And you know what that sounds like. By the way,
whoever's draft Jalen Walker is gonna have to be careful
with that too. Same type of deal.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Get them comfortable doing things they do well, and then
you start adding things to their plate. The good ones
really do that well. The all time best ever at
doing it was Vic Fangio when they drafted Allen Smith
in San Francisco. He had a plan, You're going to
rush the pass or young man as a rookie, and
(38:08):
then we'll add things to your play. But you have
fifteen sacks or more as a rookie. They had a plan.
They knew what they were doing they had, they went
about it the right way. I'm not criticizing what happened
with Isaiah Simmons. I'm not even saying that they overloaded him.
But that was all the talk was the versatility. I
want that guy strong at something that you can grab
on too early, have success early, so his confidence builds.
(38:33):
And then I started sprinkling stuff in and maybe down
the line we have our next Chuck bed and Eric
who knows.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football, I'm your man. But if you're
wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk
to Citizens. Hey, I can also talk long care. I'd
like to learn about amiliar teae. Yes I knew I
could help make sense of your money with Citizens. Yeah,
I'm with you, all right. So here's my fun one
and then I'm gonna ask you just for a couple
of year, Charles Davis, guys that you probably like better
(39:00):
than everyone else. You can start thinking about those guys
if you like. But here are mine. So I got
Travis Hunter with the third pick somehow, and this is
probably unrealistic, but Derek Harmon was sitting there at thirty four.
I think he's phenomenal. You know, you don't have any
three hundred and fifteen pound three techniques anymore. A lot
of those guys are two ninety five. So I jumped
at that. I drafted my guy Tyler Shooking round three.
(39:21):
He was sitting there. Wyatt Millan was somehow there at
the end of round three.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Were you playing him inside?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, he's a guard for me, not a tackle. I
don't think he is the feed out there or to
stay at tackle.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
And then I think he's got the tenacity and the
want to to move inside and do a nice job
for your guard.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I agree, and I think he could be your starting
right guard week one if you want. And then I
decided to take Harold Fannon Charles the tight end of
Bowling Green And look, I get the testing isn't great,
and I know he just moves. He's not as smooth
as you want it to be. But no one could
cover this guy. Why do people want you select him higher?
I got him in this box draft simulator the fourth round.
(40:01):
It's crazy. He's going to be a productive tight end.
And by the way, he actually tries to block like
he's a tough kid.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
He's willing. He's willing to He's willing to stick his
nose in the fan, There's no question about that. But
I'm not even looking at him as a tight end.
I'm looking at him as a versatile piece for me.
Where do I line and I line him up as
a wing? Am I flexing him? Am I bringing him
across across formation for motion? Do I hide him in
the backfield and send him out into the flat to
catch the football. I'm gonna do a number of things
(40:30):
with him on the offensive side of the ball. I'm
not asking to lead on power, okay, and be my
full there. I'm not asking him to make sure that
he can block an all pro defensive end and do it,
you know, consistently. Is he going to come inside and
wham occasially? Sure, we'll do all that kind of stuff,
But the biggest thing is just finding space and putting
the ball in his hands and then after that enjoying
(40:50):
the results. If you get hero Fannin in the fourth round,
you're doing really, really well. I think remember when Harrison
Bryant came out and had won the John Mackie Award
for Florida land on it. I have to tell you,
John I'm kind of surprised that we haven't gotten more
out of him in the NFL. I thought that I
thought he had a skill set that matched if you
just use him that way. But he was one of
(41:10):
those three tight ends in Cleveland and it just never
took off. Plus he was behind nadjokub Nadjoku, bigger, stronger,
more physical, all the same things Bryant does. Who you're
gonna throw the ball to? Right? So so that kind
of does that thing. But I'm with you on Harrold Fanning.
I like him a bunch. Yeah, you can see all
the flaws. But what do our scouting friends tell us?
(41:32):
Because you you learn like I learned, right, and and
occasionally I actually listen. I'm sorry, Yeah, I actually do.
My scouting friends always tell me never forget the flashes.
Grade those flashes, and Harold fannin flashes.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
And against really good competition to do. By the way,
Penn State seems.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, do you remember it? Did you see this Penn
State game? H he can play, He can play, and
he had a nice quietly had a very nice Senior
Bowl week. We talked about a lot of tight ends
there this week, and at one point I said, we
haven't even talked about Harold Fannon. What's going on? Yeah, Mickeys,
Ferguson was there, you know, I Fedora was there. You know.
(42:14):
We can go right on down the line. But my
thing is, I don't think he's a pure tight end.
I think he's much more h fact tight. But the
good offensive coordinators, the creative ones, the ones who know
how to do it, you find a way for that guy.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
All right, let's wrap it fire here, Charles. I'm gonna
throw a couple bunch of positions at you, one by one.
Just pick. I don't want no one in the first round.
Give me the guy that you really like after the
first round that you think people are sleeping on a
little bit. So it's a super deep running back class.
There's the guys of every flavor. Which guy do you like?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
I mentioned Bishard Smith earlier just because of the day,
and get a lot out of him, and I'm gonna
get him a little bit deeper into the draft. This
is a Tennessee homer call. But Dylan Samson I like.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Him a lot of Charles. He runs away from people
in short areas. Man who puts all.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Me ensop, you know, and he does a lot of
really good things there. Look him not playing inst Ohio State.
I'm not saying that it turns everything, but it changes
their offense. When he couldn't go, couldn't go fully and
Ohio State jumped on my balls in that game, I
think he's a terrific player.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I'm with you, all right. We mentioned a lot of
good Day two wide receivers. Which is your flavor on
Day two? For the wide receiver you'd like to get?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Oh boy, well can I get? Can I get Higgins
or Noel?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah? Of course? Which one? Though?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Can I get either one?
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah? Both? They're really good, built.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Differently, play a little bit differently, extremely productive. Noel got
better better during Senior Bowl week.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Noel reminds me of Liad McConkey. I gotta be honest
with you, that's what he reminds me of.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I love the comp on that one, right, Nola. I
mean everything he did, won his routes, caught the ball,
ran away from people, did all those things, short area, quickness,
you name it. Higgins a lot more linear, but still
able to shrug things off, get past people. Eastern Kentucky,
Lissy's original school, Eastern Kentucky. This is what we're getting
(44:03):
now where people do even if you miss. And I'm
seeing a lot in college of basketball where guys are
coming from smaller schools and crushing on the big stage.
I think the gap is narrower and narrower and narrower
as we go through it.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
All Right, let's go to tight end. Great class there.
We talked about fan and what's your tight end on
day two or three that you don't think people are
talking enough about.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I think people talk about Ferguson a lot.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
I like him, I really do.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I think people are talking about him, and I think
he's a really good player. What's the net? What's the
name of the youngster out of U c l.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
A Oh geeztaval Yeah, something like that. I don't think
I actually have that pronunciation.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I'm gonna have him. I'm gonna have him deeper in
the draft. But I see flashes with him. I see
his ability to run. I think that I can do
things with him down and down the road. I'm not
taking him probably until day three, Like for me, he's
a day three guy. But I think he's gonna make
your roster and make you better.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, at least if I can get that. Uh yeah,
Maliki out of owl, out of owl, something like that. Yeah,
I will have to check on check on that pronunciation
before we get the draft night.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Here you with me both, because I don't want I
don't want his family coming for him.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
No, no, you guys do a great job with that stuff.
All right, let's jump off the offensive side of the ball.
Go to defense, defensive tackle, super deep, Charles. A lot
of different guys on day two that are gonna go.
Who do you like?
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah, listen, you mentioned one of the Ania's peebles because
he flashed and me at the Senior Bowl because his
ability to play upfield. He's that old old undertackle right
that we always talk about and playing three tech to
get upfield. But he's everything he does is getting up field,
getting up field, getting upfield. And that's a little skeptical
in the beginning because I was like, but he left Duke,
(45:49):
he goes Virginia Tech? Did he? And then you go
back and find Duke tape and you're seeing it there too.
You're seeing these plays where he's getting upfield and making
things happen. I kind of like him because I don't
think he's super sized, but I do like his ability
to get upfield, make himself skinnier, and then all of
a sudden you're dealing with him in the backfield.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
All right, how about Edge?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Oh boy, there's a kid at Miami, Tyler Baron. Oh Okay,
Tennessee transfer goes to Miami. I think there's a skill
set there, that consistency is what we're looking for, and
got to put it together. But I really liked him.
I'm trying to think there was one other that I
had in mind, and all of a sudden it escape
(46:30):
this little bit of gray matter here. If I get it,
I'll come back to it. But Baron out of Miami
is a guy that I keep an eye on on
day three.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Awesome, all right, let's stick in the trenches. How about
guard Well, you.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Already you already took one of my favorites of my
lim nice. Absolutely loved that kid. All right, but let's
go to the to the Jacksonville State kid web, because.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
We're Georgia big recruit man.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Where Georgia recruit goes Jacksonville State comes to the senior bulls. Like,
remember I was with you big guys before. I'm not
proving anything. I just played Jacksonville. Say who had the
heck of a year and their head coach Rich Rod
returns back to West Virginia. I think he's gonna be
just fine as he moves forward.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, and there's some this is co off the fields
up with him leaving Georgia, that team's off to sort through.
But they'll they'll try to figure that one out.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
You know, and they'll sort through all the stuff that
goes with it. And you know, you know how that goes.
But how many times we heard all this, but yet
off field this that, and then ten years later we
don't hear another thing about it. A lot of kids
find their way eighteen to twenty two or some tough years.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Man it is I have to ask you about the
DBS man. Who's your day to dB that safety or
corner or both that you fall in love with.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Ooh boy, look, I'm gonna go with day one, just
to start off with it. I really like Malaka Starks.
I know Emon Worry has done a magnificent job jumping
up there. Not that both of them can't play, but
I feel like he jumped up so high that people
forget this. Starks have been doing it really well for
a number of years. So I am really excited about
(48:04):
what he brings to the table. Xavier Watts Notre Dame,
nice ballhawk, always around it, finds the football and then
does things with it. When when he gets involved and
takes off and goes if it's a corner. I'm really
intrigued by what we're getting out of the kid out
of East Carolina, Savannravel because we know he's coming off
(48:27):
the ACL. We're estimating that he's a sub four four guy.
When you watched him to start twenty twenty four, he
was just taking the ball from everybody before he got hurt.
And if the ball just popped free, who was the
first one on it? And I watched him come up
and tackle like he steps up in the hole and
he tackles people. Turn onto Michigan tape and watch him
(48:50):
against Michigan two years ago with that national championship team,
and he makes a lot of plays. I think he's
a little bit you know, he's raw all the time
and it almost becomes an all encompass term. But I
do think technique, backpedal, things of that nature need to
improve for him, but I think that they will with
right coaching over time. But I love his backstory. No
(49:12):
great coming out of school, ends up at lewis Burg,
which is a juco, ends up not having the grade,
so he's Carolina tells you gotta get your grades. But
he's Carolina found him in like a tryout camp and
wanted to offer him right away. And they're like, oh, okay,
well you get those grades right your company's Carolina, And
the beauty is other people discovered him during that time.
(49:35):
But where did he end up the place that found
him first. Sometimes that loyalty thing matches, and you know
what that story matches with when you'on Mitchell, yeahat Toledo.
I'm not saying Revel is the same as Mitchell, but
remember Mitchell had how many opportunities to go somewhere and
make anil money the whole thing. Heck, even changes jersey number.
He didn't change his jersey number to a single digit
(49:56):
because his grandmother said, why don't you just work with what?
Why don't you just which you have? And hey, Grandma,
I got a chance to go and make all his money.
Who showed you the loyalty first? He stayed and that
worked out pretty well for him. Revel kind of reminds
me a little bit of that. He's had to battle
through some stuff.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I know, you gotta run, Charles, you gotta do serious
real quick. I want to fall up on Starks because
I watched him and there's been a lot of Brian
Branch comparisons with him. The one thing I'll say, I
think is a little bit different than Branch. I thought
Branch was a little bit twitchier in terms of changing
direction covering in the slot. I like Starks much better
as a deeper safety than I do a guy that's
covering in the slot.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Yeah, and much more as a high safety coming down
and making those plays. Alli plays things of that nature.
I can get with that, absolutely get with it. But
I think he's dynamic that way. And if he's playing
that game, as I like to say, if he's playing
playing the game forward as a safety look.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Out, yeah Ford, yeah, exactly. Gonna keep it more linear,
don't make him change direction like crazy. I'm with you.
I think a four or five forty time is fine.
By the way. People worried about that. That's fucking just.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
To finish on the forty time. Isaiah Bond put it
out there he was gonna run sub four two right, remember,
And of course everybody couldn't wait for him to fail,
because that's how we are as people like four to two. Really,
he ran four four and then he came back and
ran four three seven. Let us not forget four to
(51:25):
four is really fast and four to three sevens even faster.
So yes, we all should have known he wasn't running
sub four two. But we like to see people knock
down after they've made big pronouncements. Let's not forget this
kid can get up and go all right, and someone's
gonna grab him second, third round, and he's got a
(51:46):
chance to be a pretty darn good pro A charge
before my big sleepers. Ty Felton the wide receiver rout.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Oh, I like him too.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I just like him because yards after the catch, John,
yards after the catch coordinators, offensive coaches, receiving coaches, running
back coaches, what are they like? People who get more
than what's blocked, people who get more than what's thrown. Right,
So he catches it at ten, great ten yard catch.
(52:15):
Charles Davis gets tackled right there, and that's your play.
Ty Felton catches it, and now it's a fifteen yard game.
It's a seventeen yard game. And guess what your offense
runs more efficiently that way. I liked it. That kid
big first four or five games of last year tailed
off a bit at the end. I'm not sure that
was all his fault, but boy, and by the way,
(52:36):
it went from like five to twenty three to thirty
nine to seventy six catches got better every year at Maryland,
and he.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Ran it really really good. Oh he ran he ran
some absolutely anything besides new Paul said, you want to
promot Charles before you take it?
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Bye? No, No, I'm just I'm glad to be here
with you, and glad, always glad to represent the mid
Hudson Valley. You know that, always glad to represent the Huguenots.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Absolutely all right. That's Charles Davis on the Johns Little Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants,
live from the Hackensack Brining Health Podcast Studio. Keep getting
better for Charles Davis on John Smell, Thanks for being
with us. We'll see you next time.
It's time to get inside the Giants huts.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Let's go. Let's Giants on the Giants bubbling, give me
some job.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's roll all right.
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants. You
welcome in What If CBS is Great? NFL Analysts, future
college football analyst, I should say, number one college football analysts,
the one and only Charles Davis. You can also find
on NFL Network past the draft is started up, he'll
(00:28):
be on that. He'll be on NFL Networks draft coverage
as well. Charles, It's always great to talk to you, man.
How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I'm wonderful. John. It's always great to talk with you.
And you know, we get to do this on camera
a few times a year, but it's even more fun
when we just, you know, just hang out and talk.
And I'm gonna treat this the way we do, when
we're just kind of talking about whatever is out there.
If that's okay with you, that's when I have the
most fun.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well that sounds great. Look, the Giants play a couple
AFC teams this year. Maybe we'll get you done. On
a couple of those games. That'll be fun. By the way,
we're talking to Charles live from the Sack and maridin
Hell podcast studio. Keep getting better. So, Charles, the way
I did this this year, everyone's gonna hear your thoughts
on prospects, on path to their draft and everything. I
really want to focus on it on the Giants. So
I dove into the PFF Simulator draft simulator, and I
(01:14):
messed around with some of the settings, and I did
three different drafts. So I'm gonna kind of give you
the three ones I came up with. First, I'm gonna
let you pick which one you like the best, and
then we'll kind of kind of break them down. Who
is available, what the Giants thought process should be to
really maximize the value they're getting out of this draft. Okay,
so fan should know we're recording this on Friday morning.
(01:35):
It's probably not airing until early next week, so it's
before the should or Standers pro Day, just so everyone
kind of has that leveled out in terms of expectations here.
So before we get it to going this, Charles, I'm
gonna give you a real basic question to start. I've
asked every person I found on the show the same question.
Because every draft is unique, every draft is different. What
makes this draft different and unique to you? And how
(01:55):
will that change what it looks like when it happens
in about two and a half weeks.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
This feels a lot more like what year was It
was twenty thirteen? Was that Eric Fisher Luke Jokol at
the top?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
That was the bad one?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And I don't want to sit here and say good,
bad and different. I'm just saying where the concentration is right,
where the focus is. Obviously, quarterback is going to carry
the day no matter what. If there's one quarterback in
the draft, we're gonna lead with that. Correct, That's just
how it is because the game is quarterback centric. We
know that. But if we're.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Talking about overall value, where the top players are, what's
going to define the first round in terms of numbers,
it's gonna be bigs, right, Defensive.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Lineman, edge rushers all included in that, mainly offensive lineman
trying to counter them. This is the old Bear Bryant
bum Phillips rush theirs protect yours, right? So is it
that sexy draft that we always wanted to have? Like
last year? Six quarterbacks in the first twelve picks. Doesn't
(03:04):
feel that way, but Biggs, and then as we get
into the draft, is the running back really back in
the game where we're going to have that run on runners?
And if so, when does it begin? Second, third, fourth round?
Whatever's going to be a lot of talented runners out
there that are going to come into the league. But
(03:26):
in terms of quarterbacks receivers, plenty of receivers, but not
as highly ranked as before.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I think you're looking for a number two receiver, Charals,
You're going to be very happy. There's a lot of
great number twos on Day two have a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
And quarterbacks, yes, but again after last year, not the
same ranking going in.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
We might see more Day two quarterbacks, I think in
this draft, Charles, and maybe I can remember, I mean
you might have a half dozen. There's going to be
a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I think you're right. And what round are we talking
to on day because Day two is rounds two and
three kind of there's a feel going in. Maybe I'm wrong, John,
You remember when it was Malik Willis, Desmond Ridder, can
he picket? And all sorts of conversation. Could someone rise
(04:19):
all the way up to top ten, top five? Could
someone do that? Remember Malik Willis got hot at one
point he was on a heater going in. But when
it was all done, when the dusk set cleared, can
you pick it went in the first round of Pittsburgh?
Was he twenty twenty one somewhere in that neighbor And
then Malik Wilson Desmon Riddar didn't go to the third round?
Remember when will Levis had the was on the heater
(04:41):
and he was walking in on draft night? Could he
be a top five selection? Ended up going to second
pick of the second round. It almost feels like more
like that. And is it the second round or is
it the third round? When the run begins on these quarterbacks?
We'll see no.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Absolutely. I think it's interesting. So why don't we start
the quarterbacks first before we go to the scenario? Charles?
If you're the Giants, how do you maximize your value
here at the quarterback position? Obviously, I think Joe Shane
has successively hedged his bets and I'd like to get
your take on that too, with Russell Wilson and Jamis Winston,
so they're not like, all right, we got to get
a guy to start, right, away or we're finished. You know,
Russell Wilson went over five hundred with the Steers last year.
(05:17):
That's fine. So is it number three? Is it top
of the second round, which I think might be rich
for some of these guys, but they might not get
to the third round, or do you risk waiting to
the third round and then pick a guy there? So
how would you say, if you want to get a
quarterback as a developmental player, where is the value going
to meet the actual group of players that's in this
(05:38):
draft class for the Giants?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
John, great question, and here's where I would go with it.
You remember my first mock draft when I said Jackson
dart number three over.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Oh you are trolling people with that, Charles. I love that, bod.
You just wanted to get people all upset. It was fantastic.
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
People lost their minds.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Oh it was great. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But you know what was weird about that was that
was about a week before free agency. Okay, So I
just wanted about to understand, like, I don't control the
tides in the sun and the moon and all that.
I'm not that I'm not that crazy, right, I'm not
big Old Mortensen in Gi Gene. Okay, but what I
did know was in a week things are going to
(06:16):
be different. So it's a week before, right. The reason
I put him there was this reason. I had a
strong sense that the Jets were gonna fill theirs. I
was eager to see if the Raiders were going to
do anything. And I already had in my pocket that
New Orleans with the GM right with Mickey Loomis. He
(06:39):
already said we're good with Derek Carr, so I'm taking
him at his word. Right, So in the top ten,
these are now filling up. So now there's pressure. If
you don't get your quarterback early, when do you get it? Right?
Because John at that point, from ten to twenty one,
I couldn't find a place for him. He won is Pittsburgh.
(07:02):
That's where you could find a place. That's where I
put him in my second Bock draft. Was it likely?
You and I both know no? The answer was no
right from the word go. But you and I have
also been around this league long enough. Have we not
seen quarterbacks pushed up when you don't expect them to be?
Have you not seen quarterbacks go like what he went? Where? Right?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Christopher just looked at Michael Pennix and Bonix last year, right,
they probably want to hire them. Then we thought they would, We.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Thought they might go. So you just don't know. Now
obviously we all thought that was really really rich, and
it was. I was just saying, as a scenario, could
someone get that desperate? Potentially? Probably not. So back to
your point, I think you're coming back in the second round.
If the guy that you like or one of the
two guys you don't you like have not gone, I'd
(07:48):
hop on him as fast as I could in the
second round and hedge because your bets are heads. You
already mentioned it. If you think there's a guy for
the future that you can get top of the second round,
if you like Dart and he hasn't gone, if you
like Milroe and he hasn't gone, if you like Shuck
and he hasn't gone. Whoever it is you're throwing in
there that you think is possibly my quarterback for the future,
(08:11):
go get it, because look at the Super Bowl numbers.
Brady is your outlier as a sixth rounder. Russell Wilson
is an outlier as a third rounder. Brock Perty's an
outlier as a sixth rounder. But the people who win
super Bowls. That's first and second round. Folks. Not saying
every first second rounder has been great. They haven't. But
(08:33):
you're much more likely to get your guy early than
you are gonna hit your number late. It just doesn't
work very often.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Of that second group of guys, I know the two
guys I want to shoot for upside with quarterback, right Charles.
So I'm looking for traits that I can develop. Gial
Mirrou is someone that I think is a long way
to go. I think he has to sit a whole year,
maybe more, But that's a guy I would think about it.
I think top of the second might be a little
rich for me, but again, you might have to just
to get him. And then I have completely red pilled
myself on Tyler Shuck's agent injury history, and I just
(09:06):
love watching his tape this year. It looks like an
NFL offense. He throws like an NFL quarterback. He's big,
he can move. I talked to him that at the
Senior Ball, I talked to him at the combine. He
just feels like an NFL quarterback to me. And again,
even I know he's gonna be twenty six, I don't
care about quarterback age. I know he has the injury problems,
and yes, but it's weird stuff. Broken collar bone, somebody
(09:27):
rolled up, broke his leg. What are you gonna do?
I don't know. I just see something there that maybe
I don't even see with the darts and even to
an extent the Shadoor Sanders.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, let's let's stay right there on Tyler Shuck. Because
you've done your homework. You know everything about it. Your
fans know about it. Because I keep telling everybody, don't
forget the people who watch and listen to us. Because
we're lucky enough to do these jobs. They're doing our job,
just they're just not on air right right. They study it,
(09:56):
they can watch it, they can watch game tape now. Right.
The access information is better than it's ever been. So
if you're sitting around with just a with a fan
and they tell you they like a certain person, and
you go, well, you know how much you have you
actually seen, all of a sudden, they're whipping out their
write ups of six game tapes they've broken down. That's
what we have to keep reminding ourselves. Our fans are
(10:18):
better educated than ever before, and God bless them. Right,
we're lucky enough we get to do this on air.
But shuck, Remember he left Oregon justin Herbert was there, Okay,
Texas Tech, right, I mean, he just kept moving on
to find a place. Louisville, as you pointed out, was
(10:39):
the first place that he had an injury free year
and got to play the entire season. But he started
at different places, was impressive at different places. Injuries hit him,
and as you said, a lot of them unfortunate injuries,
much more so than being injury prone. And this is
a kid who's got a chip on his shoulder because
he keeps thinking he's getting overlooked. But while he was
(10:59):
doing all this, I believe he got four different degrees.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Did he really? I didn't know that. He did just
go and.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Sign up for you know, the underwater basket weaving. He
went and took classes, did all his things. He's married,
he's mature. Did you want you watched him at the combine?
Did you notice when he was doing things at the
combine with his throwing? He wasn't just going back? Was
it three three with a hitch? Five five with a hitch?
Did you notice the stuff he was doing?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
He was moving his feet, different arm angles, the whole
nine yard he was.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
He was essaying what he might face in a regular
ball game. This is a mature young man. He's ahead
of the curve that way. In fact, he was having
a pro day during the Combine. He was already there.
I give him a lot of credit for that. And
he's a terrific thrower of the football. I'm with you.
I don't care about the age anymore. Right, by the way,
(11:51):
at twenty six, he's two to three years younger than
Chris Wanky and Brandon Weeden, who were both dressed.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Look, you're still going to get a second contract down
on men to get himrough the whole second contract. It's
gonna be fine.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I like him. Jaylen Milroe, I feel for because I
thought he had a terrific college career. I thought the
Michigan game in the Orange Bowl killer for him, right,
played well, didn't go well. We were there for the
week in Mobile wasn't his best week. I thought he
threw it better at the Combine, definitely threw it better
(12:24):
at his pro dad. And he has Remember you used
the word traits. His traits are just sure. Maybe Anthony
Richardson comp he was right, but also kind of hurting
him right now. But his answer would be hold on
a second way more college experience than Anthony Richardson had.
The Colts were trying to play Anthony Richardson into experience,
(12:46):
but he kept getting hurt, so that experiment has fizzled
so far. And now he's in a battle with a
guy you know quite well and Daniel Jones, so to
be interesting to see how it goes. But I like
both of them because Milroe, big strong arm kid, can
run himself out of trouble, run you into big plays,
all of those things, and when he's on, it's pretty
all right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Last one on the quarterbacks, and then we'll go through
our scenarios here, Charles, and I don't think this is
as simple of a question as possible. I know it's
probably not as simple simply based on value and getting
the best players you can and coming away from a
draft with the best players you can. If you're choosing
at three, and the Giants will probably have this choice
between should or Sanders, and either Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter.
(13:30):
I'm having a hard time in my own head making
the case for Shoud or Sanders, and I understand position value.
Talk me through that and how you would think about that,
you know, And I can't say regardless of quarterback need
because that's such a big part of this. But if
I'm looking to just get the best player, I'm having
trouble getting over that hump for me.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, that's a tough one, isn't it. All Right, let's
work through it and I'll try and be quicker for
once in my life.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Now, you're good.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Joe Shane, by all accounts, you general manager of the Giants,
to spend a lot of time in Bulder, Colorado. Right,
he could probably pay taxes, probably has a place there. Right,
He's done his homework. My guess is that Joe Shane
has spent a lot of time a number of places
doing his homework on quarterbacks because Joe Shane is going
to be thorough on what he's doing. Okay, so he's
(14:15):
done that. So what it comes down to is very
simply this, John. If Joe Shane and his organization has
conviction that Shadora Sanders is there, guy, you take him done.
Because the idea that you take the wrong quarterback and
your set and you and you're set back five to
ten years like the old days. It's just following.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Josh Rosen has taught us that right, and he rolled
up went ten. The very next year, he's gone, and
they drove Kyler Murray at one and they never look back.
And I don't hear anyone talking much about cap strapped
or you know, the Cardinals franchise will say, it doesn't
work that way anymore. You keep swinging til you get
your guy. Okay. So that's the first. If that's conviction
and you like him, you take him. The second one
(14:58):
is now the of the Giants franchise city fans is defense.
Do people long to go to the game and chant defense,
defense and have people doing their thing? That says a
dual Carter. But this is also a franchise. It needs
some real excitement, It needs some juice, It needs some
things pumped into it. That's Travis Hunter. Because I'm just
(15:20):
gonna tell you, out of thirty two NFL owners or
ownership groups, my own personal straw poll in my head,
high twenties, if you sign Travis Hunter, draft Travis Hunter,
they're gonna say, put him on offense. Put him on offense.
I whant I'm touching the football. I want to make
in dynamic plays that I can sell, and you guys
(15:44):
figure out the defensive side. Others will say, well, I
want to play them my defense. Have a package for
him on offense. Either way you're going to do it.
But I'm just telling you the kid's excitement and I
think he is going to be a heck of a player,
especially when he's not playing one hundred and fifteen plays
per game. But John, you watched the tapes. How many
times did you see a big play from him down
(16:05):
the stretch on play one hundred and twelve? Yeah, offense
or defense, he hung in there. So mentally, that's a
strong young man. So that's the way I look at it.
The DNA of the Giants's defense, the excitement level needs
to be pumped up one hundred kind of feels like
the pick to me. But I can understand why you
(16:28):
go out Dual Carter there if you're deciding Shador Sanders
is not your quarterback.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
The Giants Total podcast is brought to you by Citizens,
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Speaker 2 (16:52):
How do we make that happen?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I don't know, but citizens? Does? It makes sense of
your money with citizens Official Bank of Eli Manning fair enough? No,
I think that's fair. And if you have conviction, you're right,
you do have to take it. And you're right you
can move on the next year. We saw with Kyler
Mouriy and Josh Rose, and I'm with you. I think
that's I think that's I think you made the best case. Absolutely.
All right, let's go through our scenarios here, Charles, and
(17:15):
here's what I got for you, all right. I ended
up doing four drafts to kind of give you a
feel for different options the Giants might have. The last
one I'll give you is my little one. I'm just
picking the players that I like, and I'm curious to
see what you think about it, because that's fun and
why we're here to have fun.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Put Jackson, I put Jackson Dart at three? Am I
going to be looking at anyone and making a judgment?
Do I have any room to be judge? The answers no, home.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I appreciate that, Charles, thank you, all right. So let's
go through it here, all right. The first draft I
did this was the cam Ward and Travis Hunter in
the simulator went one and two, okay, So when you
moved on to the to the next group here, I
ended up picking Abdul Carter at three over Sanders Jackson
(18:01):
Dark got to the Giants in round two. I did
through the first four rounds Jihnanys have two third round picks.
I got Shamar Turner and Jamari Caldwell kind of a
pass rushing DT and then a run stopping DT with
picks two picks in the third round. And then I
picked LSU swing lineman Emery Jones in round four as
kind of a guy that can play a little bit
of guard and play a little bit of tackle. Okay,
(18:24):
So that's number one. You give me your feel for
that before we go on to the next one.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Real good feel for it. I like where you're going
with that, especially the two defensive linemen because you got
one to specializes in one thing and one in another.
And I think that what I'm learning about college pass
rushers is oftentimes they are better in the pros. And
I wish I could understand why, because the numbers in
college don't really support a lot of these guys, right.
(18:52):
I keep going back to Neil Hunter had four and
a half sacks in his college career at LSU, and
he's gonna go down as one of the best pass
rushers we've ever receive. So I just don't know how
to really quantify it. Af Dul Carter took care of
us this year because he gave his numbers in addition
to the talent. Remember the year before when it was
Chop Robinson, you had four and a half sacks. John,
(19:12):
we were trying what what what? But the second half
of last year in Miami, he was really really good.
So I really like where you're going to think. Stuart
is a guy on the rise that way, and Carlwell's
gonna hold things down inside. So I really like that.
And then Emery Jones. We're getting these LSU linemen that
are versatile, tough, you know, they play, they play against
(19:33):
big time people each and every week. And I thought
Jones acquitted himself nicely in Mobile, especially in those one
on one periods where the challenge was thrown down and
he accepted it. What was it Baron Sorrow the pass
rush from Texas where they had their duels, but he
didn't back down from them, and I really liked that
about him.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
No, I'm with you, all right. So that's draft number one.
Draft number two. The first two picks there are Warden Sanders,
all right, Sanders of the Browns, which I don't feel
like has a lot of legs right now, but you
never know. Wolf the Waite and see how that goes.
I took Travis Hunter first overall in that draft. I
took Darius Alexander out of Toledo in round number two.
(20:15):
I got Jalen Milroe at the top of round three,
and again, maybe that's degenerous, but I'm just going by
the simulator. I picked Dion Walker, who, by the way,
I talked to Mike Renner yesterday. He does a great
job analyzing the draft for CBS. He told me an
agent told him that Dion Walker was playing with a
fracture in his backlash year, so just look into that
because I had not heard that before. And he said, look,
(20:35):
just one person told him, and he's not, like, you know,
doesn't sure about it. But I thought it was interesting.
And then I picked u Oloa femi Ola Dajo with
the Giants fourth round picks. That's Hunter, Alexander Milroe, Walker
and Ola Dejo. I think, by the way, just body
type wise has a ton of only one years an
edge player. I think he's a ton of upside there.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
See. I think that when you got down to him,
you may have seen me spark a little bit. That
where I got excited was Oladeo from from from Ucla.
Everything's in front of him. You nailed it one year
as an edge rusher. I'd been a linebacker, right, hadn't
hadn't really done all of this stuff. Look, John Campbell,
who will go very high out of Alabama, has been
(21:16):
an off the ball linebacker because they were trying to
find a place for him to play. They wanted him
to be an edge rusher. But who was there? Who's
the guy in Minnesota Turner, Dallas Turner, in Houston Will Anderson.
They couldn't find a spot for him, Okay, play linebacker.
And then what did they do with him last year?
Moved him and played it. So that's why I was
(21:37):
excited about Oladeo because I love where you're going with that.
The the the Boomer Bust with Danyon walker out of Kentucky.
I think is a legitimate conversation. I don't use boomer
bus very often because I hate feeling like I'm putting
something on a kid that shouldn't be there until it's
proven one way or the other. But it does feel
(21:58):
that way with him. He is a man, a young man.
If he was playing with a back fracture last year,
God bless him because now you know you got a
toughness factor to him. But how much rubble is he
going to create that helps you when you have to
rush the passer? Because that's what I'm worried about in
the NFL until further notice, aren't many teams that press
(22:20):
the run like Philadelphia does. It just stays with it,
stays where he stays with it. So we shall see.
But I like what your simulators spit out. If Milroe
goes in the top of the third, which might be
where he should go.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I think that's where he should go. I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
I mean, to me, that's a big time get right
there for the giants. I just don't know if people
are gonna be able to resist themselves, because I think
everyone's gonna talk themselves into if I don't get my
q Q. Now someone's gonna snatch them, you know, very
soon after.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Couldn't you just see Charles like at the end of
round two, the Ravens picking them back up, Lamar Jackson
like like or the Eagles to back up Jalen Hurts like.
It's just that's the type of thing that a good
organization is going to do, and he'll develop for that team.
It'd be great in five years.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Absolutely listen. An underrated move maybe Dallas trading for Joe
Milton to back up Dak Prescott.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Were you surprised they only got a five for him?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Not at all about it, because he was a six
and the reason he was a six was on God,
he is gorgeous and the potentials off the charts and
when he throws the football at my go eighty yards.
But he had never been consistent starter at Michigan, couldn't
keep the job started at Tennessee, couldn't keep the job
one year of real starting production. It was really pretty good.
(23:37):
Didn't run it the way you would expect the guy
to run it. But I'm gonna tell you why. I
give that young man credit. The little known story when
he lost a job at Tennessee to Hendon Hooker. I
think it was halftime at the pit game against Kenny Pickett,
if I remember correctly. Do you know whose roommate was,
I do not Hendon Hooker. They were roomies. Oh and
(23:58):
by the way, stayed roomies. This kid found a way
to support his room bait after losing the job. You know,
it has a bitter disappointment, hung in there, supported it,
played through, watched Hooker, and then came back and got
it on his last year. There's something there about about
Joe Milton that you need to explore, and that's a reason.
(24:20):
But I'm not surprised it was only a five. I
know you had that big one game at the end
of the year. Matt Flynn had a big one game too, okay.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And it was against backups. You remember, the Bills did
not need that game, which I think.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
All that being said, I wishing nothing but success. He's
a terrific young man and I think going to Dallas
is a really good spot for him.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
All right, So the third draft, that ISID all right,
I'm gonna do Shud or Sanders here because I think
that's an option and I want to see what the
rest of the class looks like if you get your
door right, so should or Sanders was my pick at
the top Round one, top round two. I figure you
got to get your run defense a little bit better,
so I took Tyler Williams, the big defensive tackle out
of Ohio State State yep. And then I figured, well,
Chador is not the most mobile guy in the world,
(25:01):
so I better protect him. So Tate Ratledge out of Georgia,
the guard. He was there in round three, so I
took him. Great facial hair, by the way, and I'll
use the guy with that type of facial hair. He
had the mullet tube too, great mullet for an offensive lineman.
Mulletsuge the definitely bump you up a grade.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
And the best summer ressault at the Combine December. At
the end of every every session, they'd run to the
end zone that the group would run the ends on.
Someone would do backflips and sides and round offs and
he's like, we're offensive line and he does a summersault.
At all.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Jokes aside, he actually ran really well, like he was
a really good athlete at the cobs.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Very fluid, you know, a Georgia kid. We're used to
these monstrous Georgia guards right the Ben Clevelands of the world.
He's not small, but way more fluid than I'm used
to sing. I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, Jamari Sali are another big, big defensive lineman that's
not the smoothest guy. But this kid, he was loose
and easy.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
In his movements.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Now I'm with you. Then I Ashton Jelot out of
Louisville with the next pick uh, because I think he
can give you a little bit of edge rusher man
and a three technique pass rusher.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Again, I tried to get the run stopper with Williams
and I get a three techniqueass rusher with a lot.
I thought that was a good one. And then I
took Jayden Blue out of Texas as a kind of
big play guy to put next to Tracy. Will be
your first and second down guy, and Blue is kind
of your receiver speed guy to give you a little
bit of juice in the passing game.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I like it. I mean, I like where you're going
with that. I'm this isn't a counter but Jaden Blue
Brashard Smith at SMU Yeah right, yeah, type of a
guy Smith, much more of a pass receiver because he
was Tyrone Tracy wide receiver, kick returner of Miami. Goes
(26:48):
to SMU with with with rhtt Lashley when he left
and became the head coach, flips over the running back.
So it's a low dometer, But what's it? What are
his roots catching the football? So you know he can
do that on a down. But I really like where
you're going with Jayden Blue on that one. I love Ratlice.
That's a big time get to me because I think
he's gonna be a heck of a player for someone
(27:09):
because of his movement skills. I think that's really really
big and important. But it's a very interesting simulator that
you've got. I probably like the first two scenarios just
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Better, so do I I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Okay, just because of everything you're getting out of it.
The Chador Sanders one is just going to be fascinating
for all of us when we turn in our last
mock drafts. Where exactly do we think he'll land? Because
you made a point earlier, John that for the longest time,
it felt like one two cam Ward Shador Sanders, Shador
(27:46):
Sanders cam Ward. Right now we've hit that critical mass
time as we approach the draft where it feels like
they're separation because we love to use that word. Cam
Ward feeling much more like Tennessee is going to go
in that direction, and Cleveland we thought had to have
a quarterback. I mean, one of our colleagues, Mary Kay Cabot,
(28:06):
who covers the Browns as well as anyone covers anyone
in the league, she said to me, I just don't
know how they leave here without taking a quarterback. But
it doesn't feel that way to us outsiders watching, does it.
It certainly does not feel like they are locked in
that they have to take a cue at two, which
makes me wonder do they feel like they've got something
(28:29):
in place for someone who's out there that we just
don't know yet. Is that a kirk Cousin's move that
they feel like, hey, we can go get him in Atlanta,
Because it doesn't feel like Aaron Rodgers to me, Aaron
Rodgers is either Pittsburgh or the real wild card is
Minnesota is not dead yet. That's the wildcard, which I
think is crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Man, Like you use the thirteenth overall pick on JJ McCarthy,
Why are you bringing an Aaron yeah, and it isn't
my organization. I don't get it, but I don't. I
don't understand it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
On to me. That's why they have it already, because
if they were convicted that, hey, Aaron's gonna make us
because they won fourteen games last year and got nowhere
that might be turn it. We gotta get this guy,
might get us to where we're supposed to go. The
Jets thought that too, didn't work for them, but the
Jets weren't working off of a fourteen game win season
(29:22):
and your quarterbacks not back. But I think it's ultimately
going to be McCarthy because I really feel like if
they'd wanted Rogers, they would already done it. And they
may kick it around a little bit more, but it
just certainly feels like they're trending towards McCarthy taking over
that job.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
All right, So I think then we're talking about our
first two scenarios here. So I think this is what
will get interesting, right, is it Abdul Quarter is a hunter?
And which does the playout better for the Giants and
how they're building their team. So we'll go through the
two scenarios again. We'll compare seOne, which will be like better.
So you got Abdul Quarter, Jackson Dart, Shamar Turner, Jamari Caldwell,
Emery Jones. This is a trench draft, right you want
(30:00):
compete with the Eagles, you want to compete with the Cowboys.
You get two defensive tackles, one of each kind of class.
You get Abdul Carter on the edge, you get Emory Jones,
who can play offensive line. Well, you know, I think
he's more of a guard than a tackle. And then
you get the quarterback in Jackson Dart. So I think
you're really trying to compete in your division with that
type of group. Right now the other group, this is
(30:22):
a little bit more flash to it now. All right,
So you got Travis Hunter and Jaln Mirrow. Miro's the
third round guy, but those are the two offensive players.
Then on defense you have Walker Alexander instead of Walker there,
I think you could have picked like Peebles or Pegeese,
you know, one of those guys, you know, another kind
of run stopper if you prefer that. And then I
gave the edge player Ola Dajo from from UCLA. So
(30:46):
I'm just curious, Charles, do you think to help you
become a more competent football team and coming off of
three one year, that's what you want to be, right,
You want to become a better solidify your foundation, and
continue to build for you. When you look at these
two groups, does it make more sense to go with Hunter,
who again can help you in potentially in two different spots?
(31:08):
JU said, why that? Or do you go with Carter
and then just throw all your resources at the defensive front?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I like, I like that one, I really do. And
as much as I love Hunter, and I'm like, who
wouldn't if you're watching him play, if you're getting that
pass rusher now and you already have one on board
that you that you want fully activated to Thibodeaux. Right,
So you're trying now to bookend your pass rush. You're
(31:34):
helping your defensive front, right, and you're going along that way,
and you're also gonna help whoever's playing quarterback, and you
get a chance for Milroe to develop. Right. That's kind
of where right? Is that what I have it?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Right?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Or do I have is that the Dart one?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Uh? No, you would you at Dart? But you know what,
I could be easily giving you a millrow with that too.
It's okay, because you want.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
No, it's okay, whether it's are at our milra. They
don't have to come in and do this right away. Right,
And this is what we talk about every year with quarterbacks,
and we know it's folly because if you get picked
in the first round, you're gonna probably play at some point. Again,
outliers Mahome's not playing his rookie year except for Week
(32:19):
eighteen or whatever. It was. Outlier, right, Carson Palmer major
outlier sitting behind John kitting though I went back to
Steve McNair who sat for the better part of two years.
He made six starts in the first two years, but
that was their injuries. I think it was Chris Chandler
and then he took over year three. Most of the time,
(32:40):
if you and I are the GM, we go to
the podium and we say, listen, we got a veteran.
He's gonna take time, blah blah blah, and by week
three he's in. Right. It just kind of how it works,
how it goes. You and I both know if you
got draft quarterback in the first ride is likely going
to play. If he's gonna be drafting the top fifteen,
he's definitely going to play. If it's gonna be in
(33:00):
the top five, he's probably gonna start day one.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
And by the way, we talk about Milroe needing time
to just I think a lot of the mechanics and
stuff on us throwing and just getting a lot of
that stuff set is important. I think it's underrated how
much Jackson Dart needs to sit a year.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
It's a different style of what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
You watch that offense, Charles, There's not a lot of
NFL things going on. And by the way, I know
that Pat Summer was his OC. There's not a ton
of pro stuff going on in the Colorado offense either.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, for a lot of the youngsters coming in. And
I'm no quarterback guru, but having watched over time, mobility
is such a factor in our game now and Dart
is mobile, right. You see plenty of quarterback run stuff
and him running for first down. Chador is not a statue.
(33:49):
He wants to play more from the pocket, but he can.
He can hot foot it out of there and get you,
get you some.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Stuff, sometimes too much, by the way, but he does
the problem.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
And let's use Kle Williams as our case study from
last year. They are so good at the college level
when you're playing not all NFL guys, you're playing a
lot of guys who are college players. I was probably
a college player by what an NFL got. So there
are a number of us out there running around and
guess what, you're winning that battle every week. Then you
(34:22):
get into the NFL. And Russell Wilson told me the
story last year. He said, his first year, it was
early in the season and he started to do the
stuff he did in college, and oh, yeah, I just
move here and I get here, and all of a sudden,
he said, I'm on my back now because they run
you down like that. It's a different speed. These guys
all think they can keep plays alive, create something else.
(34:45):
And so when you see sixty eight sacks against Caple
Billiams and goes Man, that offense line's awful. They weren't
the greatest offensive line, but there's no way this. All
sixty eight sacks are on them. Quarterback holding the ball,
extending to play, not realizing fight another down as good
A lah TB twelve, A lah Peyton, a lah Dan Marina.
(35:06):
All those guys like, yeah, we'll come back next play.
Get it. These guys keep it alive and the sack
numbers go up, up, up, up up, And that's part
of the part of the issue. They have to learn
to speed up their process, and they do so.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I guess before I give you my fun one that
I just picked the guys that I like, and I
want to get your take on it. If and I
don't think the Giants will have a choice between Carter
and Hunter. I think one of those guys will be
off the board and the decision will be made for them,
which I think in some ways is great because it's
out here control, right if you had the choice. Charles,
So you're the Giants, Do you take Carter a Hunter?
At three?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
My roots are defense? But I'm I'm taking Hunter?
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Ah, so did I. You're gonna see it like do
my room? How do you use him?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Now?
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's the tricky part.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
He's playing offense for me initially. I've got packages for
him on the defensive side. I want to be very,
very careful about what I'm doing with this youngster because
he's going to want to do everything because he's used
to doing that. This is a different world and I'm
not saying he can't. But there's also no reason for
(36:13):
him to do it full time right from the word go.
And then I've got a kid floundering because don't forget
there's meeting time involved. There's technique time that's involved, there's
learning your craft that's involved, there's time on task that's involved.
And in college, he's so superior that he can do
a lot of these things without having as much of
all I talked about being part of it. All right,
(36:35):
he's just better than us, and he's going to be better.
But now if I'm taking him, if I'm on offense,
I develop him as a better route runner, I develop
all the skills necessary with that. I have enough meeting
time that when I want to hand in the ball
on a jet sweep, he knows that play. I want
to bring him back to the backfield like Jamar Chase
and do some stuff with him there. I'm not going
(36:56):
to run him his hard like Deebo Samuel whe I'm
going to run power with him coming inside, but I'm
gonna have all this stuff that he's gonna spend that
time with. And by the way, there will be a
package on defense that's a lot easier to adjust to.
Remember Isaiah Simmons coming out of Clemson.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
We had long conversations about him, and they still haven't
figured out where to play the guy.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
And John, I'm pretty sure that in our conversations we
talked about that and at some point, because this has
been my mantra for a long time, be careful of
what I call whiteboard fever. Whiteboard fever is a coach
up on the board saying, oh this guy, I can
play him here, I can play him here, I can
use him here, I can rush him here, I can
(37:37):
drop him here. And you know what, you have one
very confused young man.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
And you know what that sounds like. By the way,
whoever's draft Jalen Walker is gonna have to be careful
with that too. Same type of deal.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Get them comfortable doing things they do well, and then
you start adding things to their plate. The good ones
really do that well. The all time best ever at
doing it was Vic Fangio when they drafted Allen Smith
in San Francisco. He had a plan, You're going to
rush the pass or young man as a rookie, and
(38:08):
then we'll add things to your play. But you have
fifteen sacks or more as a rookie. They had a plan.
They knew what they were doing they had, they went
about it the right way. I'm not criticizing what happened
with Isaiah Simmons. I'm not even saying that they overloaded him.
But that was all the talk was the versatility. I
want that guy strong at something that you can grab
on too early, have success early, so his confidence builds.
(38:33):
And then I started sprinkling stuff in and maybe down
the line we have our next Chuck bed and Eric
who knows.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
If you want to know how to manage two minutes
of crunch time football, I'm your man. But if you're
wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk
to Citizens. Hey, I can also talk long care. I'd
like to learn about amiliar teae. Yes I knew I
could help make sense of your money with Citizens. Yeah,
I'm with you, all right. So here's my fun one
and then I'm gonna ask you just for a couple
of year, Charles Davis, guys that you probably like better
(39:00):
than everyone else. You can start thinking about those guys
if you like. But here are mine. So I got
Travis Hunter with the third pick somehow, and this is
probably unrealistic, but Derek Harmon was sitting there at thirty four.
I think he's phenomenal. You know, you don't have any
three hundred and fifteen pound three techniques anymore. A lot
of those guys are two ninety five. So I jumped
at that. I drafted my guy Tyler Shooking round three.
(39:21):
He was sitting there. Wyatt Millan was somehow there at
the end of round three.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Were you playing him inside?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, he's a guard for me, not a tackle. I
don't think he is the feed out there or to
stay at tackle.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
And then I think he's got the tenacity and the
want to to move inside and do a nice job
for your guard.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I agree, and I think he could be your starting
right guard week one if you want. And then I
decided to take Harold Fannon Charles the tight end of
Bowling Green And look, I get the testing isn't great,
and I know he just moves. He's not as smooth
as you want it to be. But no one could
cover this guy. Why do people want you select him higher?
I got him in this box draft simulator the fourth round.
(40:01):
It's crazy. He's going to be a productive tight end.
And by the way, he actually tries to block like
he's a tough kid.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
He's willing. He's willing to He's willing to stick his
nose in the fan, There's no question about that. But
I'm not even looking at him as a tight end.
I'm looking at him as a versatile piece for me.
Where do I line and I line him up as
a wing? Am I flexing him? Am I bringing him
across across formation for motion? Do I hide him in
the backfield and send him out into the flat to
catch the football. I'm gonna do a number of things
(40:30):
with him on the offensive side of the ball. I'm
not asking to lead on power, okay, and be my
full there. I'm not asking him to make sure that
he can block an all pro defensive end and do it,
you know, consistently. Is he going to come inside and
wham occasially? Sure, we'll do all that kind of stuff,
But the biggest thing is just finding space and putting
the ball in his hands and then after that enjoying
(40:50):
the results. If you get hero Fannin in the fourth round,
you're doing really, really well. I think remember when Harrison
Bryant came out and had won the John Mackie Award
for Florida land on it. I have to tell you,
John I'm kind of surprised that we haven't gotten more
out of him in the NFL. I thought that I
thought he had a skill set that matched if you
just use him that way. But he was one of
(41:10):
those three tight ends in Cleveland and it just never
took off. Plus he was behind nadjokub Nadjoku, bigger, stronger,
more physical, all the same things Bryant does. Who you're
gonna throw the ball to? Right? So so that kind
of does that thing. But I'm with you on Harrold Fanning.
I like him a bunch. Yeah, you can see all
the flaws. But what do our scouting friends tell us?
(41:32):
Because you you learn like I learned, right, and and
occasionally I actually listen. I'm sorry, Yeah, I actually do.
My scouting friends always tell me never forget the flashes.
Grade those flashes, and Harold fannin flashes.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
And against really good competition to do. By the way,
Penn State seems.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, do you remember it? Did you see this Penn
State game? H he can play, He can play, and
he had a nice quietly had a very nice Senior
Bowl week. We talked about a lot of tight ends
there this week, and at one point I said, we
haven't even talked about Harold Fannon. What's going on? Yeah, Mickeys,
Ferguson was there, you know, I Fedora was there. You know.
(42:14):
We can go right on down the line. But my
thing is, I don't think he's a pure tight end.
I think he's much more h fact tight. But the
good offensive coordinators, the creative ones, the ones who know
how to do it, you find a way for that guy.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
All right, let's wrap it fire here, Charles. I'm gonna
throw a couple bunch of positions at you, one by one.
Just pick. I don't want no one in the first round.
Give me the guy that you really like after the
first round that you think people are sleeping on a
little bit. So it's a super deep running back class.
There's the guys of every flavor. Which guy do you like?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
I mentioned Bishard Smith earlier just because of the day,
and get a lot out of him, and I'm gonna
get him a little bit deeper into the draft. This
is a Tennessee homer call. But Dylan Samson I like.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Him a lot of Charles. He runs away from people
in short areas. Man who puts all.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Me ensop, you know, and he does a lot of
really good things there. Look him not playing inst Ohio State.
I'm not saying that it turns everything, but it changes
their offense. When he couldn't go, couldn't go fully and
Ohio State jumped on my balls in that game, I
think he's a terrific player.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I'm with you, all right. We mentioned a lot of
good Day two wide receivers. Which is your flavor on
Day two? For the wide receiver you'd like to get?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Oh boy, well can I get? Can I get Higgins
or Noel?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah? Of course? Which one? Though?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Can I get either one?
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah? Both? They're really good, built.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Differently, play a little bit differently, extremely productive. Noel got
better better during Senior Bowl week.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Noel reminds me of Liad McConkey. I gotta be honest
with you, that's what he reminds me of.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I love the comp on that one, right, Nola. I
mean everything he did, won his routes, caught the ball,
ran away from people, did all those things, short area, quickness,
you name it. Higgins a lot more linear, but still
able to shrug things off, get past people. Eastern Kentucky,
Lissy's original school, Eastern Kentucky. This is what we're getting
(44:03):
now where people do even if you miss. And I'm
seeing a lot in college of basketball where guys are
coming from smaller schools and crushing on the big stage.
I think the gap is narrower and narrower and narrower
as we go through it.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
All Right, let's go to tight end. Great class there.
We talked about fan and what's your tight end on
day two or three that you don't think people are
talking enough about.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I think people talk about Ferguson a lot.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
I like him, I really do.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I think people are talking about him, and I think
he's a really good player. What's the net? What's the
name of the youngster out of U c l.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
A Oh geeztaval Yeah, something like that. I don't think
I actually have that pronunciation.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I'm gonna have him. I'm gonna have him deeper in
the draft. But I see flashes with him. I see
his ability to run. I think that I can do
things with him down and down the road. I'm not
taking him probably until day three, Like for me, he's
a day three guy. But I think he's gonna make
your roster and make you better.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah, at least if I can get that. Uh yeah,
Maliki out of owl, out of owl, something like that. Yeah,
I will have to check on check on that pronunciation
before we get the draft night.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Here you with me both, because I don't want I
don't want his family coming for him.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
No, no, you guys do a great job with that stuff.
All right, let's jump off the offensive side of the ball.
Go to defense, defensive tackle, super deep, Charles. A lot
of different guys on day two that are gonna go.
Who do you like?
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah, listen, you mentioned one of the Ania's peebles because
he flashed and me at the Senior Bowl because his
ability to play upfield. He's that old old undertackle right
that we always talk about and playing three tech to
get upfield. But he's everything he does is getting up field,
getting up field, getting upfield. And that's a little skeptical
in the beginning because I was like, but he left Duke,
(45:49):
he goes Virginia Tech? Did he? And then you go
back and find Duke tape and you're seeing it there too.
You're seeing these plays where he's getting upfield and making
things happen. I kind of like him because I don't
think he's super sized, but I do like his ability
to get upfield, make himself skinnier, and then all of
a sudden you're dealing with him in the backfield.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
All right, how about Edge?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Oh boy, there's a kid at Miami, Tyler Baron. Oh Okay,
Tennessee transfer goes to Miami. I think there's a skill
set there, that consistency is what we're looking for, and
got to put it together. But I really liked him.
I'm trying to think there was one other that I
had in mind, and all of a sudden it escape
(46:30):
this little bit of gray matter here. If I get it,
I'll come back to it. But Baron out of Miami
is a guy that I keep an eye on on
day three.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Awesome, all right, let's stick in the trenches. How about
guard Well, you.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Already you already took one of my favorites of my
lim nice. Absolutely loved that kid. All right, but let's
go to the to the Jacksonville State kid web, because.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
We're Georgia big recruit man.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Where Georgia recruit goes Jacksonville State comes to the senior bulls. Like,
remember I was with you big guys before. I'm not
proving anything. I just played Jacksonville. Say who had the
heck of a year and their head coach Rich Rod
returns back to West Virginia. I think he's gonna be
just fine as he moves forward.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, and there's some this is co off the fields
up with him leaving Georgia, that team's off to sort through.
But they'll they'll try to figure that one out.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
You know, and they'll sort through all the stuff that
goes with it. And you know, you know how that goes.
But how many times we heard all this, but yet
off field this that, and then ten years later we
don't hear another thing about it. A lot of kids
find their way eighteen to twenty two or some tough years.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Man it is I have to ask you about the
DBS man. Who's your day to dB that safety or
corner or both that you fall in love with.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Ooh boy, look, I'm gonna go with day one, just
to start off with it. I really like Malaka Starks.
I know Emon Worry has done a magnificent job jumping
up there. Not that both of them can't play, but
I feel like he jumped up so high that people
forget this. Starks have been doing it really well for
a number of years. So I am really excited about
(48:04):
what he brings to the table. Xavier Watts Notre Dame,
nice ballhawk, always around it, finds the football and then
does things with it. When when he gets involved and
takes off and goes if it's a corner. I'm really
intrigued by what we're getting out of the kid out
of East Carolina, Savannravel because we know he's coming off
(48:27):
the ACL. We're estimating that he's a sub four four guy.
When you watched him to start twenty twenty four, he
was just taking the ball from everybody before he got hurt.
And if the ball just popped free, who was the
first one on it? And I watched him come up
and tackle like he steps up in the hole and
he tackles people. Turn onto Michigan tape and watch him
(48:50):
against Michigan two years ago with that national championship team,
and he makes a lot of plays. I think he's
a little bit you know, he's raw all the time
and it almost becomes an all encompass term. But I
do think technique, backpedal, things of that nature need to
improve for him, but I think that they will with
right coaching over time. But I love his backstory. No
(49:12):
great coming out of school, ends up at lewis Burg,
which is a juco, ends up not having the grade,
so he's Carolina tells you gotta get your grades. But
he's Carolina found him in like a tryout camp and
wanted to offer him right away. And they're like, oh, okay,
well you get those grades right your company's Carolina, And
the beauty is other people discovered him during that time.
(49:35):
But where did he end up the place that found
him first. Sometimes that loyalty thing matches, and you know
what that story matches with when you'on Mitchell, yeahat Toledo.
I'm not saying Revel is the same as Mitchell, but
remember Mitchell had how many opportunities to go somewhere and
make anil money the whole thing. Heck, even changes jersey number.
He didn't change his jersey number to a single digit
(49:56):
because his grandmother said, why don't you just work with what?
Why don't you just which you have? And hey, Grandma,
I got a chance to go and make all his money.
Who showed you the loyalty first? He stayed and that
worked out pretty well for him. Revel kind of reminds
me a little bit of that. He's had to battle
through some stuff.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
I know, you gotta run, Charles, you gotta do serious
real quick. I want to fall up on Starks because
I watched him and there's been a lot of Brian
Branch comparisons with him. The one thing I'll say, I
think is a little bit different than Branch. I thought
Branch was a little bit twitchier in terms of changing
direction covering in the slot. I like Starks much better
as a deeper safety than I do a guy that's
covering in the slot.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Yeah, and much more as a high safety coming down
and making those plays. Alli plays things of that nature.
I can get with that, absolutely get with it. But
I think he's dynamic that way. And if he's playing
that game, as I like to say, if he's playing
playing the game forward as a safety look.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Out, yeah Ford, yeah, exactly. Gonna keep it more linear,
don't make him change direction like crazy. I'm with you.
I think a four or five forty time is fine.
By the way. People worried about that. That's fucking just.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
To finish on the forty time. Isaiah Bond put it
out there he was gonna run sub four two right, remember,
And of course everybody couldn't wait for him to fail,
because that's how we are as people like four to two. Really,
he ran four four and then he came back and
ran four three seven. Let us not forget four to
(51:25):
four is really fast and four to three sevens even faster.
So yes, we all should have known he wasn't running
sub four two. But we like to see people knock
down after they've made big pronouncements. Let's not forget this
kid can get up and go all right, and someone's
gonna grab him second, third round, and he's got a
(51:46):
chance to be a pretty darn good pro A charge
before my big sleepers. Ty Felton the wide receiver rout.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Oh, I like him too.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
I just like him because yards after the catch, John,
yards after the catch coordinators, offensive coaches, receiving coaches, running
back coaches, what are they like? People who get more
than what's blocked, people who get more than what's thrown. Right,
So he catches it at ten, great ten yard catch.
(52:15):
Charles Davis gets tackled right there, and that's your play.
Ty Felton catches it, and now it's a fifteen yard game.
It's a seventeen yard game. And guess what your offense
runs more efficiently that way. I liked it. That kid
big first four or five games of last year tailed
off a bit at the end. I'm not sure that
was all his fault, but boy, and by the way,
(52:36):
it went from like five to twenty three to thirty
nine to seventy six catches got better every year at Maryland,
and he.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Ran it really really good. Oh he ran he ran
some absolutely anything besides new Paul said, you want to
promot Charles before you take it?
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Bye? No, No, I'm just I'm glad to be here
with you, and glad, always glad to represent the mid
Hudson Valley. You know that, always glad to represent the Huguenots.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
Absolutely all right. That's Charles Davis on the Johns Little Podcast,
brought to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants,
live from the Hackensack Brining Health Podcast Studio. Keep getting
better for Charles Davis on John Smell, Thanks for being
with us. We'll see you next time.
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