Giants Huddle | Chris Simms

On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk chats with Chris Simms, from NBC Sports, to discuss his favorite prospects at each position in the draft, and his ideal Giants draft board.

:00 - Quarterbacks

17:00 - Wide receivers

28:40 - Running backs

42:40 - Offensive line

47:16 - Edge rushers

51:40 - Cornerbacks

56:25 - Defensive tackles

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants Hut. Let's go.
Let's go Giants on the Giants Mobul give me some jokes.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Part of the Giants podcast Network.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Let's Roll.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens, the official Bank of the Giants.
I am John Schmelk in the Hack and Sack Marity
Health podcast Studio. Keep getting Better. Today we welcome in
from NBC Sports Chris Simms. And now we welcome in
the host of the Unbuttoned podcast. You can find them
on NBC Sports. He is the one and only Chris Sims. Chris,
what's going on?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Man? Hey, what's up John? I'm doing good man. Happy
to be here of exciting, exciting time of the year,
right a week from the draft. I always love that.
It's kind of the culmination of the off season and
that last piece of the puzzle, the what a team
will look like and what hopes do we have for
the next season and all that. So I'm excited, and
especially for the Giants because I'm a Giants fan. As

(00:52):
you know, I bleed blue. I got some friends with
some other NFL team, so I root for them too.
But my real team is the New York Football Giant.
It's no doubt about that.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hold on, I feel out of place here.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
I think I need to Yeah, come on, getting your
stuff straight, man. Come on, it's Chris. Sim's unbutton or
you know, I unbutton my mouth, but I never unbutton
my top button or my.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Zipper, as you could tell here. In this case, we
must be fully zipped, that's for sure. Now, Chris, I
know you don't do it this way. It's just the
way your rankings work out. But a lot of times
your quarterback rankings are some of the more unique ones
every year, and frankly, a lot of times you're on
the money and you get them right. This year, I
feel like you're more in line with consensus. Tell me
how you kind of came about with your rankings, just

(01:34):
with the fans that they'ven't seen it. You have worded
a tier by himself, Sanders and Dart in your second
tier column, recording quin yours in your third tier, and
then you kind of have shook in milro as your
next guy's up.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Right, that's about right now? I think full you know,
full transparency here. I don't love any of them except
for one guy and that's cam Ward. I will sit
here and tell you that if I was a GM
or a team, I really wouldn't want any of them
to be my starting quarterback for the future or any
of it. All Right, That's just what I'm gonna say now. Yeah,

(02:06):
it's a year where cam Ward to me is special.
I would have put cam Ward in the conversation last
year with Jayden Daniels and Caleb Williams. Maybe I would have.
I would have probably still, I would have had them
one two. Still, I was a big Caleb fan. I
would have Caleb one, Jayden two. I think, really, if
I was true to what I was evaluating last year,
I'd have put cam Ward three. I had bo Nicks four,

(02:28):
I had JJ McCarthy five, and Drake May six. Right.
If these quarterbacks, right, Shaudre Sanders or Jackson Dart were
in last year's class, I think they're seven and eight
in last year's class. That's how I kind of look
at it. So I'm not in love with any of
them and their talent or anything like that. Should Sanders
there's some good. Definitely, he's accurate, he stands there in

(02:48):
the pocket, he can make throws under pressure. I think
his arms a little better than people give it credit.
For Jackson Dart. I like him. He's very smooth in
the pocket. You get to see lots of reads. He
can make all the throws, but I don't say wow
with his arm, and even though he can run when
he sees a lane, I don't say wow with his
movement in the pocket either. Okay, then I'm a little

(03:11):
different with Kyle McCord. Kyle McCord, see, I'm not one
to always go like, oh, I like this guy. He
plays the quarterback position so perfect. I need to see
some top end talent that makes me think he can
be something right. And Kyle McCord, other than cam Ward,
made me say wow with more wow throws than anybody

(03:31):
else in the draft. He has NFL starting potential from
throwing in the pocket. He's not a great athlete. He
needs to run more, but I like that. And I
feel the same with quinn Ewers. Sorry for the long answer,
but quinn Ewers. Yes, it's not the most perfect film,
and I wish he'd throw the ball with more authority,
but when he does, I think he can do it easily.
He's got lots of different arm angles and I think

(03:52):
those two guys, to me have more high end talent
than the Tyler Shucks of the world or some of
these other guys that were talking about, you know that
are down the line guys in the draft.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
It's funny, I'll go to yours and Shuck first.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
But I think both of them play with They play
loose in terms of how they use their arms, right.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
They both difference aren't angle right.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah, And I just feel like they're very fluid with
the way they play the position. Yours, I feel like
tries to make the big throw in the right though
sometimes he's just maybe not quite talented enough to make
it a lot.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
He throws the change up too much right. This is
one of my frustrations with him because I know and
I've seen he can throw the fastball and he can
control it.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
At the Colne he looked great throwing deep down the
field on.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Those and some of those fifteen and twenty yard out
routes you see in the season. You go, man, if
you threw that with someone thirty, the guy would have
had a maybe the catch or it wouldn't have gotten
knocked down just as the ball got there. So you
gotta decipher through it. I see it, But yes, there's
too many relaxed Oh I'm gonna time it out. I'm
gonna throw with rhythm and at the end it can
always be like that. Sometimes you gotta go, hey, he's

(05:00):
opened the windows tight. I gotta throw the fastball one
hundred miles per hour here, and I wish he would
do that more.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
John, Yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
How much of the Shook stuff is the age and
the injury? How much is I think he does get
a little panicky in the pockets sometimes when he gets pressure.
I will know if that has to do with the
with the broken collar bones. What is your what's the
thing holding you back on Shook?

Speaker 1 (05:20):
I just don't see big time, high end talent, right,
I'd see a guy that can play the position. But
when I look at Shook, I just kind of go,
I think this is a guy that's a really good
backup for a long time. I don't think anything starting
caliber type. It gives me Davis Mills vibes, right, we're
just guys where it's like we want him to be
the guy, we want him to be the first rounder

(05:41):
because he kind of looks at it and he's good
decision maker. But I want to go. But what But
what are you gonna hang your hat on? Like, He's
not gonna carry the squad when things break down. He's
not gonna make a oh wow throw and do a
tight window and big moments. That's not what he is.
And I think this is this happens every year. The
NFL always falls in love And I'm not saying saying
they're wrong here. They fall in love with a guy

(06:02):
that they go, hey, wait, he's been coached by a
good coach in brom He knows how to play quarterback,
he makes good decisions, he's got good size, he can
make all the throws. But I think there's a wow
factor that's missing for me, at least when it comes
to him.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
All Right, Jalen Milroe, the things that he needs to
get better at, Chris, Yeah, how difficult is it to
get better at those things? And how long could it take? Right?

Speaker 1 (06:27):
This is a good It's a great question. I'm on.
I mean, I was I do college football Big ten
for NBC on Saturdays, right, so I got to talk
college football when, of course watch Jalen Milroe, and I
would say through the first five six weeks of the year,
I was going he's gonna be the number one pick
of the draft. I mean, he was carrying Alabama, absolutely

(06:47):
carrying them. I mean, we're not talking about a ton
of defensive guys from Alabama this year. We're not talking
about a ton of offensive guys in the draft from
Alabama this year. He was the team right, but it
did fall apart. And there's things you worry about rowing mechanically,
and the intricate part of this discussion is really natural
throwers you can fix with them. You can tinker with mechanics.

(07:11):
I've seen Tomrady tinkerd with his mechanics two or three
different times through his career, and I could show you
different things and go, look, he's throwing the ball a
different way. We saw Aaron Rodgers come out and have
the ball up here by his ear right and he
can make the eer. But those natural, God gifted, given
gifted throwers right where Tim Tebow, I'd go, he can't
throw anything. And you can give them all the quarterback

(07:33):
coaches in the world, you'll never fix them. He's not
capable because whether it's throwing a rock or a baseball
or whatever, he just ain't that good of a thrower, period.
And you're not going to fix it. That's what I'm
worried about with Jylen mill Row. That's what I worry
How natural is it? And that's where the private workouts
and things like that will come in handy his wow throws.

(07:53):
When he's on his game, it's like, holy crap, look
at him spin that ball. That's a laser right there.
But the other side of that is you could watch
a game and go, there's ten throws and damn, he
hasn't hit the target yet. It's been all over the place.
And he's got some mechanical issues as far as he
keeps a very stiff upper body. He doesn't get his

(08:15):
body in position, he doesn't torqum because he's got a
gifted arm, it's flexible. So he's been able to get
away with that. But to be consistent, as you know,
you around the game, that you can rely on because
not every day you're gonna just go, oh, I got
it today. You know when you sometimes go out in

(08:36):
the driveway and you shoot a basketball and you're just like,
I got it today. I don't even know how I'm
shooting it, but it's just going in. It feels right. Bam.
Quarterbacks have that same feeling too. But on the other
side of that is you could have that day where
you go in the driveway and you go, damn, I
can't hit anything, nothing feels good whatever. Quarterbacks have that too,
and that's where mechanics come in because you go, wait,

(08:57):
on my worst day, I can't not be good for
my team. So I gotta rely on my mechanics, and
on my worst day, I still gotta be pretty good.
And that's what you worry about. Jaylen Miilroe. And yeah,
I think he is a project, but he's such a
phenomenal athlete. I certainly see a team could take a
chance on him in the in the top forty five,
top fifty. I don't expect first round though, John.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
No, I'm with you, and look at the Giants speak
of thirty four, So that'd be a spot that I will.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Keep buying on there. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
So a lot's been made Chris of the Giants doing
these private quarterback workouts over the next few days. A
lot of that is scheduling based why it's taking place now.
I guess my question for you is a guy that
played the position, what are the teams trying to get
out of these private workouts and then getting on the
boards with the guys like they did at the thirty
visits and meeting and face to face having dinner all

(09:44):
that stuff. What are teams trying to get out of
that that maybe they haven't been able to get out
of the combine meetings, the pro day workout, the tape,
things like that.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
It's you can never have enough information, right, That's it's
you always want more. Let me get to know the
guy more. This is a big investment. I mean, my
life is on the line here, my livelihood, my family, everything,
So let me get around that guy and get a
better feel and then yes, you start. You know, the
more private the workout in the setting is you can
really dig into, Hey, what is he capable of learning

(10:15):
on the board. Let's take him out for a walk
through and kind of go through those things. Let's take
him back. Let's see how much you remembered? Can he
teach us back? Right? Those are things again, that's part
of the quarterback world, like it or not. I mean,
Wednesday is a crash course of plays defense, you know
how it works in the NFL on a Wednesday Thursday.
So you gotta be smart, and you gotta be able
to compartmentalize and really figure things out in direct traffic.

(10:38):
The other thing is you get another up close looking person.
The film can be deceiving sometimes you can Hey, good completion,
good completion. You get that out there in person and
you go, Man, the ball doesn't pop out of his hands.
He doesn't throw like special spine spirals. Eh. You know,
wait in collegey through this rat a lot. But on

(10:58):
my offense, I like the run this rat a lot.
Let me give him a whole bunch of plays where
he's got to throw this route off of play action
on the move all that. Ooh, that's not very good.
I don't know if I like that. Right, So that's
what you get from that, and I think that's what
they're trying to do. And also here's the other thing, John,
to me why this is all happening, Because we're getting

(11:19):
to the time and I've been saying this for a
few weeks on Pro Football Talk with Florio in my
podcast one. I've been saying from the get go that
if Shador Sanders, the Saints don't take him at nine
and the Steelers don't take him at twenty one, he
can be sitting there on the board at thirty four,
it's not that crazy. Or at twenty seven, any of them,
I think a lot of they could all be there

(11:41):
except for cam Word when we get to twenty seven
and twenty eight, and I think teams as they've gotten
better here, and of course the most important evaluators have
gotten a feel for the draft and all that. I
think that's why, Hey, Dave Ball wasn't going to go
to the Colorado workout, but I think they probably went
back into the draft room and they're like, hey, guys,
we're kind of going through scenario like all these quarterbacks

(12:02):
could be on the board for us in the second
round except cam Ward. So I think we need to
go into a deeper look here. And I think that's
what's what's happening, because if you look at the landscape
of the draft and I'm done with my total evaluations
now and everything, and I got a good feel there
could be seven hedge guys go in the first round.
There could be seven offensive linemen, maybe eight go in

(12:24):
the first round. Yeah, there could be we know the
two tight ends, another three defensive tackles. So there we're
already into the twenties. There's a two receivers, the Texas
Kid and the Arizona Kid are going in the first round.
Jahad Campbell's going in the first round, right, So you
start to get to it and you start to go, damn.

(12:45):
There's like definitely a twenty six, twenty seven guys that
we know we're going in the first round, whether you
like it or not. And now we're getting to the end.
There where yeah quarterbacks, and so that's where I think
everybody is readjusted to start to go. Wait, cam Ward gone,
but everybody could be there at the end of the
first round and let's get one more look at these guys.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Joe Hine talked about this yesterday.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
How essential do you think it is the Giants getty
developmental quarterback in the building in rounds two or three
to play behind and learn from Wilson and Winston.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I I only take a guy if you're sold on
it and you really think he could be the guy.
What I worry about with the Giants, because my heart's
with the Giants always is just I don't want us
just to take a guy just because the fans and
we feel like we got to take a guy and
we're not really sure he's the future, but let's see
where it goes. That's not what it is. If that's

(13:36):
the feeling, punt to next year, don't do anything because
we don't need another guy that doesn't have great talent,
and we don't believe in in the equation now and
now we're in the pressure because we took him and
pick thirty four and Russell or Jamis Winston didn't play
very good in week one, two and three, And now
I don't give a crap if you say developmental or not.

(13:57):
When you pick somebody at thirty four and the season
doesn't start the right way, everything's to go. Why don't
we play the young guy? Why don't we play Shador Sanders,
Why don't we play Jackson Dart? And that's gonna cause
issues for everybody. So that's all I say is to
be careful of that. I'd rather see the Giants go
punt on it all and then you maybe take a
chance with a Kyle McCord in the fourth round or

(14:19):
something of somebody that could really be something one day.
That's the kind of thing I would like to see
rather than, Oh, everybody likes Jackson Dart and Tyler shuk
and Oh I guess we might like him too, So yeah,
let's get them. That's not what I want to get
behind as a giant fan or a quarterback evaluator.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
All right, final one of the quarterbacks. Let's get back
to where we started on shid Or Sanders. What to you,
Chris is holding him back from you know, being where
milk kiper that talks about him right as being a
guy that could be a great quarterback in the NFL.
What are either the trade the things to see on
tape that are holding you back from that evaluation?

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Right? And he could. I know he's a football junkie, right,
I know he loves the sport. So those are positive thing.
But at the end of the day, what's holding him
back is the same thing that you've probably heard me
talk about before, high end talent. I mean, you know,
I don't like these quarterback people were like they find
other way. Oh, he's a leader, he's good in the

(15:14):
meeting room, he's good in the huddle. When you hear
all that crap, that's a warning sign that things aren't
that good, Right, that's crap, Like, I don't do you
think that's why the Kansas City Chiefs drafted Patrick Mahomes
because they were like, not the talent, it's the meeting
room and he's got a million dollar smile. Or the
Bills took Josh Allen because they were like, he was

(15:35):
so good on the wonder lick, we just gotta take
him right, like get out of here right. The great ones,
just about every one of them has an unbelievable trait.
Let's go through it. Whether it's the great ones right now,
a Burrow Lamar, Josh Allen and Mahomes, great arms, great athletes,
Lay Marino, Aikman, whoever. You go through it. They were

(15:58):
elite talents, and that's not what he is there. He
can play quarterback, right, but I don't say wow with
the arm. You don't say wow with the athlete. The
offense was kind of simple, So there's a lot of
things there. Yes, take he does some things that quarterback
people are gonna like, take too many sacks. So I
think those are the things that hold it back and

(16:19):
hold me back or anybody back from wanting to take
him in the top ten. And I don't get the
sense from the league that he's loved that way. There's
a disconnect between the public and the league right now,
because everyone's been fed by unqualified people, you know, highlight
anchors telling you he's the best quarterback in football for
two years, where they have no right to be making

(16:41):
those type of assessments.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
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Speaker 1 (16:58):
Up and get in here.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
If you're lined up, you gotta go over the middle
with at the score great? How do we make that happen?

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I don't know, but Citizens does? It makes sense of
your money with Citizens, Official Bank of Eli Manning.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
All right, let's hup over to wide receiver Chris. You
have Travis Hunter standalone? Why don't we, hey, give this
a chance to talk about Travis Hunter? How would you
use him in the National Football League? If your team,
you pick him second? If you're the Browns, you pick
him third. If you're the Giants, how would you integrate
them into your team? How would you use them? One side?
Both sides? Because this is really unique to me, I
don't think you want to overload a young player with

(17:34):
too much too soon. But this guy is so good
you want him to help the team. How would you
handle the whole Travis Hunter situation.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
He's really good, right, He's to me listen. I'll be
one to say I think he's a little overrated. I
will say that, right, But let me just say this too.
I think he's a receiver. That would be my thing.
I would want him to be a receiver. He's made
for the modern day NFL. He's a great round runner.
He's got incredible ball skills. He's got great hands, his

(18:02):
ability to adjust to the ball, and fifty to fifty
he plays bigger than his size. The first guy never
tackles him. Right, But let me just hear you. I'll
say this too. I don't like him at receiver as
much as I like Malik Neighbors or Brian Thomas Junior
last year, who were my one to two off the board.
They to me that had three rockets up there butt.

(18:22):
They could make unbelievably explosive plays. You watched Travis Hunter, Right,
he's a better player than I expected. He's not the
explosive athlete I expected. There's lesson right. I mean, there's
again guys that run four four flat and faster. They
have seventy and eighty yard touchdowns. His biggest plays are
forty yards fifty yards. He's more quick and fluid and

(18:45):
can stick his foot in the ground more than just shoom,
I'm gonna run by you.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Right, the guests, I think he'd be like a four
four eight four five.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
I would say, exactly right, exactly right, with an awesome
like l drill times and probably really got five ten
five to where like man, he can get out of breaks,
he can turn his hips and do all that. But yeah,
I would say, you're right, that's how I feel like
a four or five flatish maybe a hair better than that. So,
but his route running is special, and we talked about that.
I would use him as a receiver first and maybe

(19:15):
just have a small package for him at dB and
again with dB. I would if he was a dB
by himself. He's not the first corner off the board.
He's not a guy that I would trust on the
outside versus any elite receiver in football. He's not gonna
be able to run with Molik Neighbors and Jamar Chase.
They will go right by him for touchdowns. He is

(19:37):
more like I used it as a honey badger in
the secondary, a guy that you can do it all.
He can tackle, he's got great feel, he's gonna get interceptions.
You can play him at nickel, He'll stop wide receiver screens.
He's quick to stay with some of those jitterbug receivers
in there. Right, you can play him a little. Hey,
let's have him be a ballhawk in the middle of
the field. But I wouldn't want him on the outside

(20:00):
the island corner. There's better people in the draft than that.
I think if he was just a true outside corner,
you pick him in the twenties. But he's a damn
good player and he can do it all, and I
certainly understand people loving him.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
So let me ask you this then, and we'll get
to the edges a little bit later.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, if you were sitting there with the choice between
Hunter or Carter, which guy would close?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Not even close? Right, I'm going ab Dual Carter. Abdual
Carter for me. The guy like that only comes around
every so often. He's rare. He's very very rare. I
from the get go kind of said, well, why it's
Michael Parsons, it's Von Miller ish right, Lawrence Taylor, It's
is that kind of expulsive athlete. It's like you turn

(20:42):
on the film and you go, is that the best
first step I've ever seen in my life? I don't know, right,
And then you see the bend around the edge and
you go wow, like can he get his shoulder on
the ground? Why he's running four to three around the
corner like it looks like he can, Like that's crazy.
And then he plays with a physical, reckless nature that
I love that's needed at the position. Yeah, he doesn't

(21:04):
win every physical battle. He's six three two fifty, but
he takes on guards that are three twenty, Like I'm
gonna beat him up and he might lose that battle
or whatever, but he goes down fighting. I love Abdua Carter.
If he's on the board at number three, run to
the podium, giants take him, let's go.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
And I think if I would pick Carter two, assuming
the medicals will come back clean on right, because I
think at an individual position, he's better at being an
edge player than Hunter is at individually being a corner
or receiver. And I'm trying not to get myself sucked
into the whole two way player thing exactly in mass

(21:43):
on scale, that's not gonna work. And in terms of
being a full time player both ways.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
No, I don't think so either. I don't. I think
I Again, you let him try. Maybe you start with
a small package on one side of the ball, see
where it goes from there. But you know, there's guys
that are better athletes than him and more explosive, and
all they're doing is focusing on their one job all
the time, and then they're fresh to go because they
sat on the sidelines. What the defense was out there

(22:09):
or the offense is out there, and that's the you know,
the other element you gotta worry about. Let alone alle
as you know all the mental gymnastics. This isn't gonna
be Hey, we're gonna line you up here and you
run a slant or a go, or you play dB
and we play cover three or we play cover four,
or that's all we do. He's now gonna be like, what,
I've never had this coverage at Colorado? What the hell

(22:30):
are the rules here? Well? Wait, we have seven different
ways to call the bunch formation just because of the
personnelse set and like, holy crap, Like I didn't know
it was like this, that's what he's gonna be, you know,
in for kind of a rude awakening for I think.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm I'm with you one hundred percent.
All right.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Your next goop of wide receivers are fun. You have
tech nicc Noollan in there, which is not a surprise.
I like him too. Jalen Knowle, who I also love.
I think he's my wide receiver five in this class.
I think he's excellent. And then you have Kyle Williams
in there, who I was really pressed that in mobile
with the Senior Bowl when I went down there, a
smaller guy, but he knows how to get open kind
of break down that second tier.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
For me, I love my the second tier. You know,
I'm sometimes a little you know a little different. Again,
last year I got dragged because I didn't think Marvin
Harrison Junior wasn't the best receiver I've ever seen in
the history of the world, right, like get out of here.
And again that goes into people just feeding you all
the time. And I'm when I turned on the film
and I went, what he's not even this Molik Neighbors

(23:27):
a Brian Thomas Jr. In a different class than him.
What are we talking about here? So but yes, there's
no like just absolute slam dunk prototype, freakish type of
guy in this draft. The Arizona guy is extremely intriguing
and really like other than Travis Hunter at receiver, the

(23:47):
only guy I could justify kind of going in the
top fifteen. He's not my cup of tea, okay, but
the size and the ball skills are undeniable, right, and
he's a pretty good route runner, but he doesn't do
much after the catch, and I never liked that kind
of guy. I'm a little bit more of a sucker
for speed, Okay, I am that way. And you know,
the Melik Neighbors type of guy. And I think we

(24:08):
all hear in New York know why, because yeah, it's
it's fun to watch when he catches the ball. But
the Kyle Williams hey six what six foot right? One
eighty eight one ninety two. If I remember correctly off
the top of my incredible route runner, I would say
he'd be up there with Travis Hunter as the best
route runner in the draft. First guy never tackles him,

(24:29):
just like a Travis Hunter and he has seventy and
ader touchdowns after catches, he makes people miss and explodes
up the sideline's like see you later. He's gone. Right,
there's more yak and impressive yak from him. I don't
think I don't think there's any doubt he goes in
the top forty, right. I know he's not gonna go
probably in the first round. But you see teams like

(24:51):
the forty nine ers, the Bears and Ben Johnson Mike
McDaniel bringing them in. Those are guys that when I
hear they're looking at them, I oh, I trust their
eyes for receivers. I like him so I think he
is made for the NFL and got a chance to
be a big time player. I'm not as big on
some of the top names. Right and Mecca Buca, no
way doesn't separate. There's no way I'd ever draft him

(25:12):
in the first round ever ever, No way. Right. A
good little player, don't get me wrong, but not a
first round talent. Matthew Golden from Texas. I like him again.
You watch Texas, Isaiah Bond was their guy before he
got hurt, so that tells you a little bit. And
nobody was more shocked than Texas that Matthew Golden ran
a four to two nine. Nothing on film says four

(25:34):
two nine. I agree, it says all possession receiver. And
again another guy that ran four to nine, his longest
reception of the year is fifty yards. Most people that
have four to two speed, there's eighty and seventy five
and seventy and eighty five and ninety on the tape,
So that kind of tells you he doesn't play to
that speed. Interesting. I think there's a lot of good
receivers to get in round two and three this year
in the draft.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Yeah, and I want to talk about Trey Harris in
your big play upside category, right, but you don't have
Burden in there. And I kind of put those guys
in the same category a little bit, right. They feel
like they both ran simplistic route trees in college. Right,
they kind of flashed like, Oh, there's the change of direction,
there's the explosiveness, But I don't know if you see
it consistently, So I'm curious how you separated those two

(26:17):
guys out from each other a little bit.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Burden was really tough. I think the biggest thing I
gave with the old mis kid is he's a true
X receiver. Where I go, you can just line him
up here because of his size. He's a bigger guy
than Luther Burden too, to where yeah, he can catch
back shoulders, the jump balls. You're gonna feel good about
him when he's covered. He's still not covered, right, He's

(26:41):
one of those guys let alone, really, I mean, one
of the biggest play guys. I mean, you get to
see him run away from LSU and Alabama and guys
like that, where you go, Hey, it's the SEC. There's
a whole bunch of NFL d backs and he's going
for sixty and seventy. Like we're talking about Burden. I'm
with you, and that was one of the toughest lead

(27:02):
leaving him off. I went back and forth. I wasn't
in love with the route running, I think at the
end of the day, and a little bit of the
size bothered me too, But I see the act of
the catchability with you, and he's one that I'm willing
to admit that I'm scared I might be wrong right
out right. I went back and forth with him a
whole lot. I do like Luther Burden, and.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
Then going back to Jalen Knowle, I see a lot
of Liie McConkie and him, to be honest, with the
way he runs his route. He can play inside, but
he has speed. He's not exactly just a quick guy.
He's an over the top guy that plays the slot,
which I think I agree with you, that pushes him up, man,
because look, you can create space at the line of scrimmage.
Who's not gonna get pressed in today's NFL. And once

(27:44):
he starts using that explosive this, he's going to be
tough to cover the next level.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Agreed. That's where it's like, you know those guys, they
all have Travis hunder. These three guys, they all kind
of have a similar skill set and what they are.
They're made for the modern day NFL because you, like
you're talking about, they can move him around anywhere. Hey,
we need you to do Julian Edelman Wes Welker type routes, Okay,
I could do that. Hey we need you to get
outside and beat people deep like Jamar Chase. Okay, I
could do that. Right. That's that's where I think that's

(28:09):
exciting for for those guys. And yeah, I'm with you.
I really like Jalen know and just like to peel
back the curtain, right I I come out with these
rankings pretty early on in the process. I have constantly
over the last few weeks showed people here at NBC
people kind of like man, Kyle Williams, Jalen Knowle, Holy crap.
I mean, I I just got to watch him last week.

(28:32):
I'm with you, He's unbelievable. Blah blah blah. So I
really I don't think either one of them are on
the board. Once we get to about forty five, I
think there's a great chance they're out of there already.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
And I had a chance to interview Nolled out the
Senior Bowl. Great kid too, just like professional.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
You could tell the way he plays and everything. He's polished.
He's got it all together.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
All right, let's go to the running backs here, Chris
and I.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
We know your rush. So if you think I gotta
be out of here at a certain time, don't worry.
We can go a little bit past that. So don't worry, Okay, John.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
We're all good man.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
I wanted to running back, and there's a lot of
guys to talk about it here. So because I could
tell based on the number of guys you've listened here
that you like this class as much as everyone else does.
And no surprise that Genty and Hampter in your top two.
How much separates those two in that top tier for you?

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Not much, right, I you know, I see it in
a little bit in a similar way, like a few
years ago, I put Jamar Gibbs in the same class
as Bjon Robinson, and that was kind of like an
unpopular take. But like here's my reason, Ashon Genti's awesome.
It's the greatest contact balance you've ever seen. Right, I've

(29:40):
never seen a guy take more hits, doesn't go down,
bounces off, accelerates, does all that. Now, was there a
sight of me that questions a little bit of how
awesome that could be in the NFL for a smaller guy,
And as we know the NFL, everybody's bigger, everybody's faster.
It's gonna be a better quality of tackler in a
more physical game. Yeah, there's a part of me there

(30:01):
necess and all the other thing. The other powd of
it is I don't look at him and just go whoa,
like it's four to three speed. I don't know if
I see that right, right, So that's where okay, I
just have a little of pumping the brakes there. But again,
awesome top ten pick. I'm all for it, no doubt
about it. I'm just trying to give a little context.
Omario Hampton is he's a proto type. He's the proto type.

(30:25):
I mean, it's Joe Mixon. That's what we're talking about here.
It's it's like, oh, wow, did they chisel? Is that
a Greek god that they chiseled at a stone? I
mean that's the first thing you say, right, and then
you go, whoa, what two hundred and twenty something pounds? Damn?
He can like make some sharp cuts. He can break
people's ankles. He can push the pile when nothing's there,

(30:47):
he still gets four people meet him in the hole.
You go, damn, he broke the tackle and got six.
Let alone, he might make that guy miss and get
forty or fifty up the sidelines. So to me, he
just made for the NFL to be that bell cow
sledgehammer type of pick. And in a draft where there's
not a lot of a let's say, elite first round

(31:08):
talent type of offensive guys, I think he's one of
the few short list guys there and yeah, I think
he goes somewhere in the top twenty five picks John all.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Right, and I love your tier two guys here label
is starter maybe Superstar and two guys that I have
as I think are gonna be really good players Basehelle
Tutin and RJ. Harvey, who I don't know why more
people aren't talking about them.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Maybe it's yeah, maybe it's their stash quiet. I think
I think they're keeping quiet.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Maybe what are they like five to nine, just over
two hundred pounds, But I think they both run with
such a low center of gravity that they're able to
take on contact and survive it. And both guys are
just a big play waiting to happen.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
They definitely are right And I'm I'm in love with
r J. Harvey. I kind of have a man crush
on RJ. Harvey.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
So much fun to watch man. Oh, it's great, he does.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
He does it all. And I'm trying to sit here
and talk to you and also break out my notes
that I got because I got three different notebooks here.
Because but like with him, because there's just some special
things about his game that I like. I mean, first off,
he's got the type of he's not a slasher. He
can he can kind of come up to the line

(32:17):
of scrimmage and dance and kind of pick a hole
and then go and right. Sometimes you go, hey, put
your head down, there's nothing there. Just get the hard yards.
But it's hard to argue because he does that and
then he bounces outside and you go, whoa, He's going
for eighty down the sideline. See you later, right, So
that's where you just go, Okay, we might have to
deal with some of that a little bit as we
go forward here.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
And because by the way you talk about that, you
talk about Hunter speed. There is a play back in
twenty twenty three where Harvey runs away from Travis Hunter
on a deep run and he just outruns him down
the sideline.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
That's how fast he is.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
I remember the play. I watched it. He's got long speed,
he's got big time playmaking unbelievable speed that way to
where yes, he's great there. He can make people miss
I think as good as anybody in the in the draft.
The one thing is is just the teams that want
a guy that just say go hit the hole and

(33:12):
go that's the guy. You know they're gonna have to
figure out whether he's capable of that. Right, that's gonna
be the big thing and the big question with him.
But man, I love him. He's one of my favorite
under the radar guys in the whole draft. In here,
I finally got to it right because I write pages
of notes like this. I'm old school. I wrote, like, Hey,
he reminds me of a Josh Jacobs, but he's got

(33:33):
better long speed. Okay, that type of body. That's kind
of how I looked at it. The ability to do
this he's got. He's got some thickness to him. I'm
a huge fan of him altogether.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, me too, and then too in the same tame man. Yeah,
the problem is that stop fumbling, dude, like, hold hold
on to the football. If you get past that, I
think you have an outside zone scheme where he's able
to kind of be patients with the hole and burst
through exactly.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
And he finishes runs at his size. Man, he punishes
people at the end of some of these runs.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
One hundred percent. He runs. Nobody told them what size
he is. He thinks he's he thinks he's two thirty
going through the whole like he's Jerome Bettis or something
like that. But yes, like I think you hit it
spot on the teams that leg that hey be patient
on the outside zone. You see the hole, put your
foot in the ground and go through it like a
Kamakazi nine million miles per hour, right that that's the

(34:24):
team that's gonna like a Buyashu to touton and to
your points with the fumbles are an issue and that's
gonna have to be something he works on for sure.
But I think a little bit of it is because
he does run so hard and he hits and he
has such contact and violent runs. That's a little part
of it. So he's got to work on it. But
I again, two guys that I'm with you on that

(34:46):
I think are second round picks really and starting NFL
running backs like from the get go and can be
special at that, not just starters that could be special.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
And then you have a standalone in your thirdier. And
I think we're seeing the the Christen's tendency here. You like,
the guys are gonna get those explosive runs because you've
got Trevion Henderson coming up next who has a ton
of speed. He started in the National Title Game. I
do worry about some of the injuries the two years prior.
But he's not the biggest guy. But he has the ball.
He's explosive, and you want to pass protector, then just
put Travion Henderson in the game. He's a great pet

(35:18):
blitz pickup guy.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
He's crazy aggressive, almost like the guy you just talked about,
and tooting right where. I mean, he runs hard. You're like, damn,
he brings it. He really does. He's not gonna be
everybody's cup of team because he's not a real big guy.
He's not always gonna get you tough yards. But the
teams that want to go get in space do that

(35:40):
a little bit. I mean, he's one of the best
big play guys in the draft. That's the big thing.
It was tough, tough pickings between him and Judkins, the
other running back at Ohio State, because I like him too,
but I went with the big playability. Yeah, Henderson, you're
not gonna want to go, hey, we want to give
him the ball twenty five times a game, right up
the middle between the tackles. That that's not what he is.

(36:01):
Few carries there, but your few game plan edge runs,
a few screens you can use them in the past
game and you can get a lot of exposive plays
out of him. That's why I really like him.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
And then you kind of have your honorable mention category here, Chris,
And this is where you have a lot of your bangers.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Right.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
You have Judkins who's a banger. You have Damien Martinez
who's a banger. You have Tam Scattabow who's a banger.
Caleb Johnson to an extent, he's a bigger guy. I
think he did run away from people on table a
little bit better than he did with his with his
time forty times.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
But he's a bigger guy.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
And even Raheem Sanders who's a bigger guy who has
some top end speed too. These are all where you
kind of put your I think every dawn you can
give it to him eighteen twenty times and they're gonna,
you know, to your point when you're talking about the
coaches that want the guys are gonna put their head
downsna go go get yards.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Right, that's what this group is.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, definitely, and your spot by Caleb Johnson. I love
his big playability. What I don't like for him is
a big guy is he's gotta run harder and run
people over and get more tough yards. He runs a
little soft that way, and I'm not saying he's soft,
but like to a guy like Tutin who's twenty five
pounds smaller than him, you'd go wait. He runs and
runs through contact and delivers blows way more than a

(37:09):
Caleb Johnson. I love me some Damien Martinez down there
in Miami. He gives me some James Connor vibes. Right.
It's a bigger human than you think. He's got very
quick feet in the box, he can break tackles, He's
a big human. Usually that kind of skill set translates

(37:29):
to the NFL. Right, So he's definitely one of my
under the radar, like down the line guys that probably
doesn't go to the third or fourth round that I
that I really like and could be your belcal right
right away in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
He's in on your list. But I'm curious what you
thought of Dylan Samson. I was a big fan of
him when I watched him. I thought his short area
burst and kind of running away from people and small
windows was really really good.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yes, I listen. I liked him too, and that's why,
Like you said, this is a class and this is
a year where I feel like I wrote forty to
sixty at the end of my notes eighty times, right,
Like it's like whoa, or I wrote twenty five to
forty five, like forty times, and that's what I think.

(38:12):
We're all you've hearing it. I'm hearing. I mean, that's
what the draft is this year. It might not be
as high end wow, but it's like whoa. Okay, there's
a guy or two at the top of every position
that's pretty good. But that man three, four, five, six, seven,
and eight are all good and the grades are going
to be very close together, right, I think I wrote.
My big thing with him is all the things you

(38:34):
wrote tough physical, the change of directionability is top notch.
I don't think his forty time I wrote that was
my main problem. His top end speed bothered me a
little bit. Between that and being a little bit smaller,
I just didn't love that aspect of him, right, I wrote,
His biggest negative is I don't think he's real fast.

(38:55):
Top end speed is not with the top guys. I
would say four, five, eight ish something like that, right,
But the change of direction ability he can slash and
put his foot in the ground. He never loses speed.
I like that aspect of him. And then I wrote
eighty to one hundred for him, and I might be
a little wrong with that. I certainly can recognize that.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
And I think he's almost a juiced up version of
Jordan James, who is kind of the same type of
smaller guy. And I think he is even less juice
than Samson does, which is why he's a little bit
lower for me. But he actually reminds me a little
bit of Bucky I Erring from last year. I tested
terribly and I'm not trying to helmet Scout here, but
just really good short areas make people miss. Has some wiggle,
runs hard for his size. I think those two guys

(39:36):
are actually pretty similar.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I hear you there too. There's a lot of down
the end, down the line guys right that I like.
I mean, even Cam Scattabow I like him, Right, you
look at him and go wow, I like you said
James Jordan the Wood he marks from the USC. I
liked him as well, Right, So there's some guys there
that you think, you know that I think we all
think could be on the top or on the board, third,

(40:00):
fourth round. Where you go, Damn, we got a player
here at running back.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
Let me hit two other deeper wide receivers before we
switch the defense here, Chris.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, some bigger guys.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Jack Besh is a guy that when I saw him
at the Senior Bowl, I gotta be honest, I didn't
love him. He made great contested catches, but I didn't
see the separation out of him. Then I went back
and I watched the tape. I thought he was one
of the best receivers in the class at the top
of the route, just getting in and out of his
braces and creating separation that way. Him and Royals another
guy that know a lot of people like more than
I do.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
I don't know if necessarily see the juice there that.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Other people do.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
I'm curious is what you look of Besh and Royals,
And then two of the bigger receivers Higgins Iowa State
versus Tory Horton, Colorado State, who I think is a
little underrated. Kind of break down those four guys for me.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think the first one too
in hold on, damn, second lose Besch. Yes, it's an
interesting guy, right, Yeah, he's not gonna wow you with
some of that physical play there, or just like the
wow off the line of scrimmage. Oh my gosh, that's unbelievable. Yes,
at the top of the route, he knows how to

(41:04):
lean people and get out of a break or use
his body and get out of a break right and
do that. The thing the other thing I like about
him a lot and is okay, yeah, he's got a
little size and strength, so you love that. And his
what he is after the catch, I mean after the catch,
he's physical, He's trying to go places right. So that's

(41:25):
where I really loved him more than anything, I think.
And again, I don't know if I look at him
as a top sixty pick or anything in there, but
a guy that okay, yeah, you can get and do
something with when it's all said and done, and maybe
be a big slot and you can move him outside

(41:48):
at times too. I think that's kind of how I
look at it. The rest of those guys, man, I
like him. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you
I'm in love with them, okay, And I haven't spent
as much time with some of those on the line guys.
I'm a little bit more of a right, I'm not
all year round mel Kiper. Yeah, I'm kind of like,
I try to shoot for the guys that are gonna

(42:10):
be first three rounds, first four rounds. I kind of
limited on let's just say the top one fifty and
all that. I got a feel for those guys, But
once I get to a certain number, I just start
to go, that's gonna be later on in the draft.
I'll dive into that a little bit later. So that's
my full disclosure there. I could tell you that I
feel like I got a top fifteen at every position,

(42:31):
and I could go through that and like Royals, I
didn't have in my top fifteen, If that that makes
any sense to you there. If you want to know
how to manage two minutes of crunch time football, I'm
your man. But if you're wondering about a long term
financial plan, you should talk to Citizens.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Hey, I can also talk long care. I'd like to
learn about a Molli routine.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your
money with Citizens.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
No, I think that's absolutely fair. All right, let's jump
to the offensive line real quick. Yeah, you just did
this episode recently. You had Orlando Brown on if I'm
not mistake right. They kind of break it down with
you on again the Unbuttoned podcast, Go check it out.
You said you could see as many as eight offensive
linemen I think in the first round, and I don't
disagree with you. I think the tackles that can all

(43:12):
go in the first round are Campbell, Membo, Banks, Simmons,
and Connorley. Right, those are the guys we talked down
the show. And then I think Zabel Booker and Donovan
Jackson are three guards that could all go in the
first round as well.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Yes, I think so. I mean you go the Will Campbell, right,
we know him. I don't think he could play tackle
in the NFL. I would make him a guard, Okay,
so that would be my thing there, and maybe he
can do the tackle. But I'm just saying from what
I see and what it looks like, and I think
most of the league looks at him and goes, he's

(43:45):
a guard. That's what he is. Right, So there's that.
But yeah, him Membao right from Missouri. I think I
look at him and go wow. The ability to protect
the special there, I mean, his pass protection is awesome.
The run game needs some work. The kid from Ohio State.
Simmons is special. Okay, he's special, he just got the injury.

(44:06):
I think he's probably the best one. If you watch
my podcast with Orlando Brown Junior, I think he agrees
with that, and if you hear my assessment, I kind
of say it too. But the injury kind of bothers
you a little bit. You don't know where that's at.
But I think that to me, right, the three tackles
in the first round, just just for sure, are Simmons

(44:26):
from Ohio State mbow for sure. And I'm blanking on
my other one that I had. Oh yeah, no, No,
Connerly I think is a guard. I would really I
would put Connor Lee is a guard. I mean, he
could maybe do tackle, but he's so he's smaller, he's
more of an athlete, right, I think he'd be best

(44:49):
at guard rather than tackle.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
I love his feet.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
I worry about his play strength. That's kind of how
I look at Connory.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
That's That's what I'm talking about, right, the how can
you not be worried a little bit about the anchor?
That That's what I really get down to. And I
still wait, I'm still Kelvin Banks. Kelvin Banks, the Texas
kid Yep, I think is also a guard. I look
at him as a guard. It's too all over the

(45:16):
place with technique and pass protection right the anchor a
little bit. I see like pass protection. Sometimes I go, oh,
this time he played basketball, the next time he did
the karaoka drill. Like it's just a little all over
the place. But his run blocking is phenomenal and that's
where I like him. So mboo Josh Simmons for sure tackles.

(45:38):
Let me give you another one that I think should
be borderline first tackle or tackle in the first round.
I should say it's the kid from Minnesota, Okay. Arian
Ariante Ursery is the guy to me that is being
overlooked here.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
He's gigantic.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
He's just he's gigantic. He's got great feet. He pass
protects really well. Does he need a little work in
the run game department and the rush wrestling matches? Sure? Yeah,
But man, when it comes all down to it, there's
not that many guys with that size that can protect

(46:19):
the quarterback. Like, would I be shocked if the Kansas
City Chiefs have picked thirty one took Ursy, No, I
would not. I think he's capable of being that top guy.
But to me, those are the three best tackles. I
think those are the tackles and everybody else I kind
of look at to go eh Booker's a guard, that
Connor Lee's a guard. Donovan Jackson of course, Ohio State.

(46:42):
I felt like it was a guard. The kid at
North Dakota State, he's a guard for me. Maybe he
could play tackle, but he's very much like Will Campbell.
But there we are right there. That's I mean, we're
talking six or seven guys that I think in the
NFL right now, where teams can't find enough good offensive
lineman and every team has eight good d linemen, there's

(47:04):
an offensive line problem in the NFL right now. That's
where I'm kind of like coming around to. If I'm
a GM, I'm putting some of these guys at a
premium right now. I'll see the Philadelphia Eagles who win
the trenches every game, or a lot of the other
good teams, And that's where I kind of like this group,
maybe maybe more than most.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
No. Look, I think if you need to tackle, they're
gonna run out really fast, and I think that's so right.
But I think guards, I think you can find some
value there certainly.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
All right, let's jump.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
To the defensive side of the ball, Chris Edge, where
we talking about Aldill quatter boy. I don't know how
many times I went through the rest of these edge
players and tried to put him in order, and it's
just really hard. Do you care about production, do you
care about traits? Do you want the smaller guy? Do
you want the bigger guy? This was just I think
after you get past the top guy from picks to
your point before twelve to fifty, how you stack these

(47:53):
edge you guys is really really tricky.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yes it is, but they're they're good, right, And here
we go where I go, Okay, ab dual Carter, first rounder,
top three pick, boom, Okay, Shamar Stewart Texas A and
m Mike Green, Marshall, the two Georgia kids, the kid

(48:16):
from Tennessee Pierce, and then the kid from Boston College
is Zarique. Right, that's seven. I think all seven of
seven of them are first round caliber type of players, right,
So yeah, I see it now. I my ranking. Of course,
Abdul Carter, I had him one. Chamar Stewart and Mike
Green were the next two guys for me. Chamar Stewart.

(48:40):
I know everybody's gonna go, you only had one and
a half sacks, right, there's not enough production. And the
thing I tried to explain to everybody is disruption is production.
When you f the play up, that's a big positive
for an NFL defensive team. There you go, whoa, he
didn't make the tackle, he didn't get on the stat sheet,
but he's actually responsible for all this we have on

(49:00):
that play. So that's a real thing. And he's built
like Miles Garrett, right. I think he's special. I would
take Shamar Stewart in the top fifteen of the draft.
I wouldn't even blink. Yeah, and Mike Green it's about
the same thing. Again. I think he's special that way.
I'm not as high on the Georgia guys. I like
mikel Williams. The Javon Walker to me is the most

(49:25):
mind blowing thing to me in the draft. I think
he's the most overrated guy in the draft. He's not
that great of a middle linebacker, he's not that great
of a pass rusher, but he's went to Georgia and
just nobody's gonna get off of it. You're nothing. You
could say he's got six sacks. He's got five more
sacks than the kid from Texas A and M. I go.
If you watch best plays, pressures, disruption and all that,
it's not even comparable the kid Jalen Walker. All his

(49:48):
sacks are like coverage and then he goes and gets
the guy or they miss assignment the block and then
he gets the sack, or the quarterback runs out of
the pocket and then he goes and runs them down.
It's not like, oh he dominated a t he got
around the edge and oh my gosh, that was unbelievable.
There's less with that than him of anybody. But it's
a damn good group. I like them all, I really do.

(50:09):
But like I said, that's the one I don't like
Jalen Walker. The rest of them. I'm big fans of a.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Guy like Walker.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
I do think he has really good burst and bend
down the corner.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Yeah, but I do.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
Think the problem you run into with him and I'm
actually higher him than you are. But what I having
trouble kind of computing in my head once he makes
contact with the offensive tackle and they get his hands
on him.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
All the size, it's all enough long arms.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
He's having some trouble with that, So I don't know
how to kind of put that into the equation.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
I agree with. But he is explosive, he's got a
great first step. I mean he's fast, but he's six
to one. He's six one. He gets swallowed up all
the time. And I don't think his bend is as
good as some of those other guys. Right. I would
tell you if you the kid from Alabama, Jahad Campbell,
I'd go he, i'lly has the second best first step

(51:01):
in the draft. I mean for everything everything talking about
with Jalen Walker, I just go, I think John Campbell's
better at everything than Jalen Walker.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
But by the way, if you see Campbell in person,
he's a much bigger frame than Walker too.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
And I know I've seen him. I was there at
the combine with you and and interviewed them. And that's
again that's another thing. I have six to one pass rushers.
I don't. I got the sense watching Georgia film too,
they were a little bit like we got better middle linebackers.
So let's put him over here right, Oh on first

(51:33):
and second down? Oh, we don't want he's one of
our best defensive players. What do we do with him.
We don't want him a DN on first and second down,
so let's put him back a linebacker. Right. That's kind
of the sense I got watching him. I'll be very
interested to see where he goes. I really will he's
the one I question him. But hey, there's there's some
depth at this position as well. There's a lot of
good players here to have on the edge.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
All right, Chris, let's wrap things up with cornerback here.
Tell me why I'm wrong about Will Johnson. I might
take is bad when I watch the tape, even going
back to his twenty twenty three tape. I just feel
like there are too many plays where he plays very
soft and he allows easy catches in front of him, right,
And I can't understand why a guy with all that

(52:16):
length he flashes really good instincts.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
We see the interceptions in twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Three, Why he just allows so many easy catches in
front of him. Owing the fact at the end of
the twenty twenty three tape we saw him get run
passed a number of times. And you combine those two
things and it scares the hell out of me.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
I hear you.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
I mean, I know what you're saying. But this is
where I think you got to take this to do account.
Sometimes he's not the coach and the defensive coordinator they're
telling him to play there. He's not going, hey, coach,
screw you. I'm gonna do what I want. Jim Harbad,
you don't know anything. I'm playing bump mand a man
here like that. So you gotta take that into an
account of what he's being asked to do. Yeah, I'm

(52:58):
with you. I wish he would play more. He's he's
made to play bump man. Demn right, He's made for it,
exactly right. But with the size, the ball skills, his
ability to kind of accelerate and explode out of breaks,
out of backpedal, that's special for his size. The long speed,
I'm with you, we could question that a little bit,

(53:19):
but as I dive through it more and more, I
start to become I was like, Oh, he can go.
I don't know if it's four three two, I don't
think it's that. It's probably like four four flat something
in that range. Right, But you know, I'm I'm a
big fan of him. I do, and I think he
is one of the true shut down island D type
of corners and but I'm with you, and I'm wishing
he played more man to man, and I think when

(53:40):
he gets to an NFL team, that'll start to happen
right away.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
I liked your second group here. You have Travis Hunter
and you're a loan tier. Then you have Harston, Porter
and Revel who I think are all really interesting long corners.
Harrison's a little bit lighter than the other two guys
in terms of weight, but all them long and they
can run exactly right.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
I mean I again, you heard what I said about
Travis Hunter. I really like him, but I value the
guys that can play on the outside and go, wait,
I got him, coach, that's it. You could do whatever
you want with everybody else. I got him, right, And
that's you know what really again, going back to our
quarterback situation, the great ones have great physical skills, ability, speed,

(54:26):
and that's why they're great, right. Well, the corner that's like, oh,
he just knows how to play the game, and he's
smart and understands angles. I don't know any of them
in the Hall of Fame, I don't I don't know,
but Deon Sanders and Durell Raves and cham Bailey, who
I played with. Yeah, they had rockets up their ass.
That's why they were in the Hall of Fame. They
could go right, they could cover I got you, period.

(54:47):
So I'm a little bit more of a favor I
favor that type of guy and man like those other three.
I love the kid from Kentucky, Maxwell Harrison. To me,
he's a first round pick. Right. We don't have Jade
barn on the list. I didn't put him on the list.
I like him, but again, he's not an outside island
type of corner. I know he's going in the first round.

(55:09):
I'd love to have him by my team. He's just
not the guy you can go. You get Malik Neighbors
and cover him forty times this game, like he'd have
no chance. Milik Neighbors would have six hundred yards receiving
in that game. So because like, I don't make him there,
but I understand where he is, right. But Maxwell Harrison,
he can be able to run with anybody. I mean
he makes Matthew Golden who ran four two nine look

(55:30):
slow on film. I mean Matthew Golden catches some balls
over the middle, he runs him down like he's running.
He's still Isaiah Bond, who is and was the fastest
guy at the Texas. He runs him down on post routes.
So I love him. My next man crush other than
har J Harvey though, is Darien Porter. Darien Porter, this

(55:51):
story is unique.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
It is, but going.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Back into in a draft where there's not a lot
of freaks, he's one of them. He's one of the free.
I've never seen a corner his size move the way
he does. He's better than Tarik Wollen coming out. I've
said on my podcast. His speed, his hips, his ability
to plant the foot in the ground and drive on
the ball. It's really every bit as good as Sauce

(56:17):
Gardener coming out. Every bit. Now he's not quite the
player and have the instincts and some of the boss goes.
He doesn't have the experience yet, but man, the movement
is special and I like him a lot. I just
if I'm in the second round and I need a corner,
I'm telling you I might be running to the podium

(56:37):
for Darien Porter.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
All right, last position here, Chris.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
I went through the shows and maybe I missed the
rankings I could have. Did you have a chance to
look at the defensive tackles at all? Because I do
think it's a really good class at that position. The
Giants could certainly use one on Day two, and there'll
be plenty of choices. How do you look at the
defensive tackles in this class?

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Yeah, I look at it like you know one as
far as defensive tackle, Okay, I mean I like the
course Mason Grant. The two Michigan kids are the top
guys for me. Right. If you want the disruptive, chaos creator,
Mason Graham's your guy. If you want the guy that
can hold double teams right and push the pocket a
little bit and do that, then you're gonna like Kenneth

(57:17):
Grant a lot right the other guy. So those are
to me, I think both first round picks. I feel
like maybe the Kenneth Grant Grays maybe on the edge
of the first round, maybe second round for some people.
We'll see where that goes, right, But I feel like
at least that's the feel I get from other people.
The kid from Oregon, Derek Harmon right, love Harmon. I
love Harmon right, no doubt a first rounder. So he's

(57:41):
de tackle who could play shade, nose, nose tackle, three technique,
five technique, He can do it all. He's got long arms,
he gets off blocks, he can hold his ground, right,
So I'm with you. I love him as well. I
think the kid from Texas, Alfred Collins, is a hell
of a player now, huge, huge, and he's not gonna
be sexy on film. Again, going back to what he

(58:03):
was asked to do, and that's what you gotta go.
He wasn't allowed to just go I'm gonna go upfield.
I'm gonna go upfield. They kind of asked him, Hey,
hold the guy two gap, throw them away, make the tackle.
Oh he's going this way, throw them the other way.
Make the tackle, right. So that's what he was asked
to do. And he's special in that department. So I
really like them. And then yeah, there's some down the

(58:24):
line guys again, like we talked some o the other positions,
second third round, where I go, Damn, they're gonna start
real early on in their career. They're that caliber player, all.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Right, Chris, the rat things up. You want the Giants
to do well. You have familial connections to the Giants
with your dad, obviously, what's your ideal draft look like
for the Giants? And you can go as deep as
you want or you just want to focus on the top.
That's fine too. How do you think the Giants help
their organization short and long term the most in this
particular draft.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Well, I want to Abdul Carter at three if he's there, right,
I do. I mean, I'm a little bit of like
with the Travis Hunter. If he's there at three, I
want to be like a little like, we don't need
a receiver. We're kind of good. We're actually, I think
pretty good at dB too. I mean, I'm a fan
of what we did in the offseason. I think the
Maryland kids still pretty good. Pulse of the de Bo.

(59:14):
If he doesn't get hurt, is gonna get top of
the market money for corner. He's an Island shutdown guy.
And I love Javon Holland. So I'm not a like.
Like I said, I'm a little lower on Travis Hunter,
but I understand he's going in the top three or four.
I get it. I get it. But I want to
due a Carter at three. I want a difference. We
need an offensive lineman in the second round. That's what

(59:35):
I would really rather go, because you know, I don't
love the quarterbacks. We need an offensive lineman that can
contribute to our football team and start building for the
future in that department. So that's where I'd like to
see them kind of make those type of moves, and
early on in the draft, I want to see them
focus on that. I think those are the two things
that jump out to me more than anything.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
Chris, I'm with you, man, we renting the shows already,
But tell the folks where they can find everything you're
doing with the NFL the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Well, I I'm on Pro Football Talk every morning on
Peacock from seven to nine am. I do Chris Sims
Unbuttoned podcast twice a week this time of the year,
and then, as you know, during the season Football Night
in America Sunday Night pregame show, I do that as well.
But uh, yep, everything NBC Sports. You can find my
big mouth, ugly mug there whenever you want.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
And of course the college football covered as well as
you mentioned, so college Football.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Big ten on Saturdays. I'm doing it. I'm trying to
do it all, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
How do you manage NFL and college prep at the
same time, Like I'm being very genuine here, how do
you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
That that that's really tough?

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
It's I trust me. I pushed back against NBC when
they first told me. I was like, what, like I
first saw, Hey, I'm doing more that I think than
anybody in the company anyways, but you want me to
do one more thing. But right, so, I yeah, I've
really I've had a compartmentalize where I go basically Sunday
till till Thursday, twelve thirty one o'clock, I'm all NFL.

(01:01:01):
And then I get to Thursday afternoon and I go, wait, NBC,
we got these games. And I sit there Thursday and
Friday and break down the teams that are gonna play
in college football on our channel and do it that way.
But yeah, it's it's not always easy. It definitely stressed
me out some weeks. John, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Chris, good stuff, my friend.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Enjoy the rest of the process and then enjoy some
time off and made June and July. Please, I think
we all need it before we get up for another year.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
My man. I you know it, Man, I appreciate you
having me. John. Now, let's go g man.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
That's Chris Sims and NBC Sports.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
We appreciate him joining us right here on The Giants
Little Podcast, Brought to you by citizens, the official bank
of the Giants. We're from the Hackensack Murty Health Podcast Studio.
Keep getting better for Chris Simms. I'm John Schmolke. We'll
see you next time on the GIHNTS Totle Podcast