January 25, 2022 • 34 mins
Host Cassie Calvert is joined by Jane Skinner Goodell, a veteran journalist and producer of new podcast/TV series, "Earnin' It," which focuses on the forward progress of women in the National Football League. Oh, and NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is Skinner’s husband.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
There are very few names more iconic in the NFL
than Goodell. Roger Goodell has been the NFL's commissioner since
two thousand and six. But there's another Goodell moving and
shaking things up in the league. Jane Skinner Goodell, yes
wife of Roger, has been a trailblazer in amplifying the
stories of women in the league. She's produced a documentary,
(00:27):
A Lifetime of Sundays, that chronicles for NFL matriarchs, and
is currently producing a podcast and NBC television series called
Earning It, the NFL's Forward Progress. I told Jane that
we're kindred spirits and the work we're doing to amplify
women in the game, and I'm so honored that she
joins me today for this episode of the Purple Chair Podcast.
(00:48):
Let's Dive in. Well, I'm so excited to have you
on today, like I said, because I feel like we're
kind of kindred spirits with the podcast that we're working on.
For me, the goal of this podcast, the Purple Chair Podcast,
was the highlight voices that you don't say we hear
from both in our organization and the NFL. You know,
we hear from the men a lot and I think
it's there's really so many powerful women in and around
this organization. I just think it's really important to amplify
(01:10):
those voices. And you're working on this really cool project
with the NFL called the Earning It Podcast, the NFL's
Forward Progress and for fans, you might not know it's
a new podcast. It features the stories of women in
the NFL from the field to the front office, and
it's hosted by the NFL Senior Director of Diversity and Inclusion,
Sam Rappaport. So how did this podcast kind of come
about initially? Well, first, I agree with you, Cassie that
(01:33):
we are kindred spirits, except for you have a much
better name for media, Cassie Calvert. If I had had
that name, I would have liked really gone places in
my TV career. Jade Skinner is not quite as exciting
as that. So it's a perfect um podcast host name. Um. Well,
you know the podcast that we're doing, Earning It is
a companion to a series of TV series that I'm
(01:55):
producing with NFL Films and NBC Peacock, And it's really
what I really have wanted to do is I've had
this kind of fifty yard line seat to watch this
project and progress I'm sorry being made with women coming
into the league, and I wanted to chronicle it because
I felt like it's happening so fast in five six years, Um,
(02:16):
how much has changed. We're seeing coaches on the field
and now two female officials working Sarah Thomas and Maya Chaka,
and then behind the scenes in front offices and owner suites.
You know, it's all just kind of exploding, and I
really wanted to make sure that we have it down,
UM so people understand a what's happening, and also be
how it's happening and how very much um the men
(02:39):
are involved in this, and they of course need to
be as I like to say my pet peeves women
speaking to women about women's progress, right, and I'm getting
anywhere and um, you know on this podcast for a
good example of that is the Washington football team coach
Ron rivera Is said he was the first to raise
his hand, um for uh when somebody suggested. When our
(03:00):
podcast host Sam Rapp Report suggested creating this pipeline for women,
he said, I'm in what do I have to do?
I'll show up, I'll meet anybody I want to hire someone.
Um so in any case. It's so it's kind of
come out of my um passion for storytelling to do
the series and also do the podcast. I pitched the
podcast to I Heart Media and said, I kind of
(03:22):
have an idea for who might be a great host. Um,
it's not me. It's not somebody who is a sportscaster
or been in television before or on air or in radio. Um,
it's this woman who had the guts. Really about seven
or eight years ago, Sam to say to my husband
Roger on a high school football field when they were
there for a flag football tournament. Um. And when he
(03:44):
said to her, how you doing, Sam? And she said,
great commission, I have a dream. And she just spoken
and she said I was a she's a former professional
women's tackle quarterback. There are tons of them in this country, players, women,
professional players. And she said, I have all these are
football minds that are my friends that he just happened
to be female minds. And there's no way for them
(04:05):
to access the NFL. If you're Bill Belichick, you know
how the past works and how you could become potentially
a coach or a head coach someday. There is no
pipeline for women and I would love to see if
we could create one, and you know, to his credit,
he said, call me Monday. So, um, it has been
you know, it has been easy by any means, but
(04:25):
it's been fascinating to watch. And so I pitched her
and they said she sounds great. And so then I
had to call Sam and say, hey, uh, got you
an extra job And she said, I have a full
time job. I have no idea how to be a
podcast host, but in her way, because she is has
so much energy and such a great voice and is
(04:47):
a great storyteller. Um, I said, she said, I'll try it.
I'll give it a shot and we'll see what happens.
And so we're now six episodes into it. And the
beauty of having her she's a natural, and the beauty
of in her as the host is that she has
built this pipeline and brought these women into the game
with her guests. So when Ron Rivera comes on, he's
(05:08):
going to give I can guarantee you a much better
interview with Sam Rappaport than was somebody else because they
have done the work together. Um, and she's close to
a lot of these female coaches and the Sarah Thomas
is of the world. Um, so it's been really she's
kind of dug interesting things out of um the guests,
and I think she's told the story in a way
(05:30):
that you know, nobody else is telling it. I love
that you said how quickly kind of this really has worked,
because just I've only been in the league four or
five years now, and it's night and day, you know,
like from the time that I started, And it's really
cool to really see that change taking place and feel
like where you get to be like a small small
part of that. Um. You mentioned that your husband was
obviously involved because she pitched the initial idea to him,
(05:51):
and he's featured on the first episode, So what was
it like to work with him in that setting. Well,
we've definitely never done that before. So I did give
her a prep session on a few secret things to
ask about, including what makes him cry, and she did
make him cry. Um, he does. He likes to cry
at rom Coms was the big takeaway. But um, you
(06:13):
know they talked about a lot about his family too,
and um, his mom and what were who were his influences?
But um, it was fun. I joined that podcast. It
was our very first episode, and I really thought it
was important that people knew who Sam was too, and
so I kind of played the role of third wheel
there and that I got to ask her a few
questions so people got to know who she is. I mean,
(06:35):
by the way, the second thing she asked me, after
how much time will it take to be a podcast?
To become a good podcast? How she said, can I swear?
So she Um, she really is so fun and funny,
and I wanted to bring that out and so that
people immediately in the series got to know who she
was and how you know, truly authentic she is and
how much of a great football line she is too. Um.
(06:58):
And then to have her are kind of pressing him.
I'm not the one pressing my husband questions. He was
pressing him on the questions and giving him the hard ones.
It was a blast. Um. I think he had fun too.
You know, it lasted a long time. He had thirty
minutes scheduled in his office and we were there for
two hours. So um, they I think they would encourage
(07:18):
people to listen to it, and we split it into
two parts because there was so much stuff. But it
really gives a good um view into how an organization
you don't have to be a football fan to listen, right,
how an organization UM creates change UM and there, you know,
they talk about what are the stumbling blocks and how
do the players feel about having a female coach. That's saying,
(07:39):
you know, one of the big questions that gets answered
to in the in the series. Yeah, we heard that
when we had a coacher Lori Locus, who's with the
Buccaneers now and training camp one year and people ask
me that all the time, like they don't care if
she knows this game. She knows the game, you know,
like they learned from anyone. I love that you mentioned
the rom com thing because that was probably my favorite
(07:59):
part of the episode. I just that was the most
surprising thing to me, big Hugh Grant fan Roger Goodell,
I never would have And actually Sam tweeted when the
episode came out, she tweeted at Hugh Grant when we
were like, oh, please let him answer, because we want
them to have some sort of conversation. But alas he
is not doesn't matter though Roger still got his I
(08:21):
guess you'd call it a man crush. I don't know
what it is, but he comes on screen. It does
not matter. The movie. They're all classics. That's fair. Do
you have a Do you have a favorite episode of
the Internet podcast that you guys have done so far? Well,
that is a little like asking me my favorite child, right,
So they're all really different, which is we did try
(08:42):
to make them different, So I don't know if I
have a favorite. Obviously, the first two were fun because
it was with Sam and Roger. Um, we had you know,
Billy Jean king on to kind of, um give us
some perspective. She was on an episode with some of
the coaches and um, the female coaches and the head
coach is the male head coaches, and then to give
her perspective on how change is made. And she was
(09:04):
big on this idea of you have to find you know,
and I guess now they're called male allies, but you know,
in her day it was just like men in power, right,
or men want to be part of change, and you know,
she was big on saying if if they don't respond
in the first a few attempts, move on, you'll find
(09:24):
somebody who will help you. Um. So it was really
interesting to hear um how much has changed since her day,
but also to get that kind of um perspective and advice.
She's a big Bruce Arians fan. They're close. She likes
the Bucks, um and she follows the Patriots too, so
she's a big football fan too. Um. That was really fun.
We have as a tease. Our last episode of the
(09:47):
season is coming out right before the super Bowl, and
of woman produces the halftime show. I don't know if
you knew that Dian Harmon, who's a super genius production
and musical genius, and um where speaking to her, and
then we had this kind of funny idea of bringing
along somebody who's in a story it could be the
(10:07):
play the role of halftime historian and talk about what
are the iconic shows and do you use history when
you're going to develop this year show and play it creatively?
And so I said to her, what about quest Love?
Somebody like that from the roots, right from Jimmy Fallons show,
Who might be? He seems like a real student of
history and then been a professor and all this stuff,
And she said, oh, I'll text him. So they were friendly,
(10:29):
which I didn't know, and so we got so lucky.
So they tease I'll give you is that they both
said in things change in and they explain why, and
they go through a lot of the big shows, and
then she gives a little hint as to what we're
going to see this year, so um and he talks
(10:50):
a lot about They talk about their favorite shows and
why and what and then and then Sam asked them
if you could pick a halftime show. You know, they
had very interesting answers to so that is a wild combination. Yeah,
I know, I know, it's fun. I don't even know
what would you say to that? Would you have an
answer to that if you had a favorite half? Oh
my gosh. I feel like it has to appeal to
(11:10):
like so many different kinds of people, which is I'm
always so impressed when they are able to do that,
you know, like it cares that many acts right that
do that. Yeah, yeah, I'm a big Drake fan, so
I would love to see him make it up there sometime.
But I thought that the weekend one was really cool
with all the like mirrors and everything. I mean, it
has to be like visual too. Well. They do talk
(11:33):
about that a lot. Is that they know people. They said,
people don't really focus on how it's really for television, right,
It's not so much for what's in the stadium, and
they said they knew that the show, the weekend show
was different because it was COVID, they were very limited
in what they could do, but that it would be
successful because it instantly became a meme. The mirrors, you know,
when he was walking on it was all over social
(11:56):
media instantaneously. So they knew it would go down in
history as a point right that it was, um something
that will always be like recalled and remembered. So but
they did I don't know if they intended it that
way or not. Um, that is interesting. Yeah, that makes
it more memorable and it's kind of captured in history
on the internet forever. Yeah. Um, So you mentioned kind
(12:19):
of when we were talking about the podcast at the
top that it's also there has been a companion with
there's a video series that launches on NBC and Peacock
in January. So what can fans kind of expect from
the video version of that? How does it kind of
expand on the audio? Yeah, it's definitely different. Um. The
podcast really is Sam's voice and talking about creating the pipeline.
She is in episode one of our TV series, because
(12:41):
we start at the beginning of how these women really
a lot of them got there. We profile more than
twenty women. Um and it's really a lot about access
to it's the story of change also. But UM NFL films,
we get an incredible access where an owners suites at
training ants. We're going to do it a really kind
(13:02):
of a hopefully epic episode on halftime preparation. UM Mary J.
Blige will be in it. She is the one woman
out of the five performers on stage. So there's an
episode called, um you know kind of you go first
and being the only woman in the room kind of idea. UM.
A lot of trailblazers that way. UM. So it's not
just the women you see on the field, it's also
(13:23):
off the field. And UM, it's it's fun. One of
our you actually interviewed. One of our subjects is um
kim My Ali, who represents I think Ronnie Stanley. Um
so she's great. She's with say kwe for his big
comeback after he was injured or we kind of follow
her that day, um and are with them throughout that season.
(13:47):
And so anyway, it's a it's it's a very very
deep dive. That's that's fun. It's been a blast. It's
really Um, it's a it's it's something that hasn't really
been before, and it's kind of a model we're using
as like a documse series that they that films hasn't
really done before. But I think it'll be great. I
can't wait to watch that. Kim was great. She was
(14:08):
literally like when I was talking to her for the podcast,
she was in the waiting room going to an injury
from appointment with one of her clients, Like I thought,
I was busy, like multitasking. I don't know how how
you do that, But I love that. The video series
kind of reminds me of the documentary that you also
did with the NFL on the Life a Lifetime of Sundays,
(14:30):
which highlighted for that kind of NFL matriarchs female ownership
in the league. And it's cool to me the kind
of juxtaposition of these two projects because, like like you mentioned,
the just over the last couple of years, we've seen
so much change and these women have kind of been there,
but they've seen the league change in their tenure with
their families being an ownership, and they kind of don't
(14:51):
even realize that they've been trailblazers in that way. Um
that's just like fascinating to me, the kind of two
generations that like we're talking about here. Yeah, you know,
it's it's funny you point that out, because the original
idea when we did a Lifetime of Sundays with the
four women in their eighties and nineties or the team owners,
as you said, my original idea was to do it together,
(15:11):
was to have um so, say you had Martha Ford was,
you know, running the team at the time in the
owner's suite, and then you'd have Kim Pogula with the
Buffalo Bills running the team and do kind of comparables.
But we had it was a hundred year of the
NFL a few years ago when we were shooting the
Lifetime of Sundays, and we had so much incredible history
(15:32):
with those four women that we decided to just leave
that as almost like an historical piece that they're just
telling tales that hadn't been told really publicly before. Um So,
so this was kind of a Lifetime of Sundays also
almost like two point oh. But it's turned into something
because in that short period of time that was let's
(15:52):
say nineteen that the documentary came out, and just within
those two two and a half years, there have been
so many more women coming into these rules that, um,
this became bigger. Not just a one piece documentary, but
we're doing a five part series on it. It's pretty exciting,
um to see, you know, just how quickly it's all happening.
For sure, It's cool to me. It seems like so
(16:14):
much of your work has been on focused on amplifying
these women in football. How why has that been so
important to you? Oh? Well, you know, I grew up.
I'm the only girl and the youngest, and my dad
got season tickets to the Chicago Bears in nineteen seventy two.
So I started going to games when I was a
little girl. And it's funny, I always look around. Now.
(16:36):
We were just a Vikings game a few weeks ago,
sitting in the stands, and my first thing I always
do is look around to see, like how different it is.
I was an anomaly, right, and I don't know the
early seventies, mid seventies as a little girl in Soldier Field,
but now that's just so commonplace to see women and girls. Um.
So it's so thankfully because I'm married to Roger, I
(16:56):
like it would be a real problem if I didn't.
But UM and I do love the game, and UM
and I do I think secretly probably I if I
had had, if there had been more opportunities, I think
like maybe I would have done something that one of
these women are doing. It didn't really occur to me
(17:17):
because there weren't. It wasn't the see it you can
be it then, UM, and I just I really love
they're how brave they are and UM their ability to
be trailblazers and take whatever that you know, adversity comes
with that and power through it, and they know that
they're you know, making a mark for um next generations.
(17:39):
And I just felt like, like, what a great story
to take the most masculine place right on, which would
be maybe an NFL football field, and have women saying
I can do this too, because, as you know, Kevin Stefanski,
who is the Brown's head coach, said on the podcast,
you know, football isn't gendered. I have a daughter and
(17:59):
I have sons, and it's like, it's such a fascinating,
great game just for kids to play, right, And how
did it become you know, necessarily this way that you
couldn't work in it, Um, just because of your gender.
It shouldn't be that way. We want, you know, diversity
of thought. Um anyhow so, so really that is kind
of how my passions came together. I've been a TV
(18:21):
journalist for twenty years, and so I thought visually, also,
it's such a great story and we have great access
if um, we had films involved, and so I feel
very lucky. It's I mean, it's truly is like the
absolute passion project. I love that get chills. UM. I
love too that you said you know, in hindsight, you know,
(18:43):
if those opportunities have been there for you, like you
might have chosen to do something like that. We have, UM,
when we have our youth football camps here, they allow
they always obviously allow female athletes as well, and we've
had coaches bring their daughters and their sons to these camps,
these flag football camps, and I always see these kids
out and I'm like, I would have loved something like yeah,
I was little, you know, and it's awesome, Like an
(19:04):
NFL sponsored event that's also for female athletes is so cool. Girl.
So yeah, you know, it's interesting. We have this great
shot with the interview with Sarah Thomas, who's the official
and she has a daughter. She has two sons and
a little girl. And this great shot of her daughter
dressed up as her for Halloween. Right, she's wearing the
black and white stripe. She has her ponytail sticking out
of her cap, um, you know. And she said, that's
(19:27):
huge to me to know that she doesn't have to
wonder can I do this? Because I'm a girl. It
won't be a question for her. So, um, that's you know,
that's powerful stuff. Yeah, totally. You mentioned kind of off
the top when Sam approached Roger about the pipeline, and
I've really seen you know, them, their collaboration, just being
a part of the league, and what have you seen
(19:48):
from him kind of his drive to be more inclusive
of women in the NFL. And is that something you
guys have talked about kind of over his tenure. Yeah,
you know, I wouldn't say we overtly talked about it,
because it's really just kind of who he is. Um.
He grew up in a family of all boys, which
is interesting. He's the middle of five boys, which I
always explains a lot about her personality. He loves a
(20:09):
good competition. Um. So interestingly enough, he didn't have sisters um,
which sometimes people say, you know, makes you more attuned
to UM these types of issues, But it's always just
been naturally part of who he is. A reporter asked
me several years ago, is Roger supportive of women? And
(20:30):
I just kind of laughed and I said, well, I
wouldn't have married him if he wasn't write And it
hadn't really occurred to me, um, that I would be
with someone who wasn't. We also now have daughters, so
I do think that's you know, people talk a lot
about the girl dad phenomenon, but I do think they
have an impact too, UM. And they are massive football fans,
(20:54):
very smart football fans, and they are willing to say
tell him, are I love to see it? Uh? Anyhow
so I think that's all part of it. It It doesn't
we don't. We don't sit around and say how can
we empower women? At all? I think he just he
He also is just a type of leader who UM wants.
(21:17):
He doesn't want to walk into a conference room at
the league office and for people to say, Gosh, you're right, Roger,
you're right. Um. He wants a diversity of thoughts, so
whatever form that comes in, he wants the debate, UM,
and he encourages it. So that's just a part of
who he is, and so it would it does make
sense that, UM, that he would be very comfortable being
(21:39):
a leader in this field totally. I think that's like
speaks to being a good leader in general for sure,
no matter what your role is, that's so important. UM.
Kind Of on the personal side, as I've been doing
this podcast, like we talked about before, we've I've talked
to players, spouses and moms, the wife of a general
manager and head coach, our head coaches daughter, and it's
just really interesting to me personally, UM, you know, dealing
(22:03):
with kind of being in the spotlight of these roles,
and especially in a role where you know, I talked
to John Harball's daughter and having to grow up in
Baltimore where if the team doesn't win on Sunday she
had to go to school the next day, UM and
face that. You know, So, what is it like for
your family? You guys are kind of on even more
extreme because you're national, you know, not just in a
local market. To deal with being the family of the
(22:26):
commissioner of the NFL. What is that like? UM? I
will say that it's UM First of all, it's we
always remind each other all the time like we're so lucky.
It is, as Rod Aloys says, such a privilege um.
And we get to do the most um fun and
you know, kind of special things um as a family.
(22:47):
So UM, I never want to sound like I'm complaining
at all about it. I will acknowledge are definitely hard
days when you know people are tough on him and
is a tough on your family, Yes, he's the first
to say. Um. I will say that I have learned
from the way Roger handles it and the way my
daughters handle it, and I'm trying to be better about it.
(23:08):
It's really hard to see someone you love when things
are said about them that just aren't true. People can
disagree with their positions or decisions or whatever, but when
they're saying things that aren't true, that's when I bothers
me because I also I'm also in a strange position
because I was in the media, so I was on
the other side of it for many years. So um,
there are difficult days. I, as you probably know, I did.
(23:32):
I did not perform my best when I had like
a secret Twitter account when I'm never doing that again.
I was totally embarrassed and I had to come home
and tell my children, don't do what I did. This
is the teaching moment for the day. And they were like, Mom,
so they would never do that. They're very chill. Um.
I would say. The best like words of wisdom I
(23:52):
ever got was when they were in middle school. They're twins,
and one of them, I said, are you guys okay?
I know it's really hard day for your dad, and
they had come home from school. One of them said,
I know who my dad is. It's okay. And I
thought that I'm going to kind of adopt that as
my you know, zen mantra maybe UM going forward is
(24:15):
that you I think you just have to know you
know what's true and what's not true, and that comes
with the territory. And he doesn't let it bother him
at all. Um. He uses it as fuel, as he
likes to say, um, the criticism and likes to keep
going and make things better. Which, by the way, we've
heard a lot from these female coaches who and uh
(24:37):
women in other positions who deal with diversity all the time,
and they say, you just have to you know, you
have to put it somewhere either don't look at it
at all, or you take it and you use it
UM to power you going forward. UM. So I'm learning
from everyone else. I'm not a lot of UM dealing
with it the best. We talked about it a lot though.
(24:57):
It's interesting. I did listen to the interview you did
with red Um and their daughter. Uh. We talked about
it a lot, is UM at the annual meeting. You know,
a lot of the spouses will we'll have time to
UM see each other and meet with each other. And
you know, it's hard, like I think the teams, the
head coaches, wives and g ms, and I think those
families have it harder UM because they also can not
(25:20):
know what their fate is and have to pick up
and move UM and move their families and UM. Sometimes
it's harder being in a community like that in that
fish bowl. UM. Oh, but everybody has different ways of
dealing with that. So it's good to like air it out. Yeah,
I was. That was one of my favorite UM one
parts when I was listening Food to Earn a podcast
(25:41):
episodes with Roger and I just thought that was really refreshing.
He had really great perspective on it and even for me,
like I deal with it on a much smaller scale,
but it's so easy, like to take things personally. And
you know, I think he said, like it's not a
business for thin skin, and that's so true. But um,
and I liked what you mentioned, like what Sam was
saying that they kind of off to the female coaches
(26:02):
about that, and she said, you know, you don't take
criticism from someone you wouldn't go to for advice. And
I literally wrote that down because I'm like, you know,
I get on the internet and you read these things
that people say about you and they don't know you,
you know, and it's I wouldn't go to them, you
know what I'm dealing with the decision they need to make.
So that's really it was really cool perspective. I thought,
you know, I love that line. And also a few
years ago, so um at the Fitly Annual meeting, I
(26:24):
get a lot of this big, big now group of
spouses together and bring in people to talk. And Reese
Witherspoon came a few years ago, and so I said
to her, you know, you have a family, and she's
definitely stumbled in different places and her incredibly successful career,
and I said, can you give advice for people in
the room. It's not the same Hollywood and football whatever,
(26:45):
but you know it, dealing with the media kind of is.
And she she was so funny, she said, don't scroll down.
So we put it on a T shirt like it's
really good advice. Though she said, you don't, I'll post
to picture. I'm not I'm not asking for people to come.
You know, I'm not looking for the comments. I just
(27:05):
that's part of my world and my brand and all that,
and I move on. Um, And I think that's a
healthy way to look at it. It's you know, easier
said than done a lot of times. But for sure
I think it's Taylor Swift that just has her comments
section completely off, and like I aspired to, that also
a good way to do it. Do you have a
(27:27):
favorite memory from your time around the NFL. I know
you probably have so many. You guys have had so
many crazy experiences. Is there anything that really sticks out
to you? UM? I don't know. I just feel like, UM,
I guess the one thing I would say is it's
not really a singular thing, but every time I go
(27:49):
to a stadium and you it's like pregame and you
take your seat and it's the buzz and then the
Nationals them and then kick off and like that, you know,
four minute moment or five minute moment. I every it
does not matter if it's preseason, the super Bowl, whatever
(28:09):
it is. I think that is one of the most
special um experiences. It's like a truly American experience. It's
um a great one of the greatest sports experiences. Um
So I you know, you're talking about getting chills like
I do get chills till every single time going to
a game. So I'm not sure I could pick one. Um.
(28:32):
You know, if the Bears are winning, you know, that's
good too. But it's like the anticipation before before the
kicks even happens, that yeah, yeah, the game's gonna go. Yeah.
I love that. And it's very electric, right yeah. It's
all that energy through Yeah, and you kind of forget
it does It is a place that makes you kind
of you know, put aside. You're not working, you're off work,
(28:56):
and you're having maybe a beer and you're with your
buddies or whatever, your family. It's just a it's a
cool and just to see those athletes is like such
a privilege to like they are the things they do
with their bodies are just so remarkable. Uh so I
don't know all of it. And then they're you know,
(29:16):
then there's so many remarkable guys off the field to
who you don't even really know about until you talk
to them. And then they have these incredible you know,
foundations and the work that they do and um with
their communities, and so it's so true. I guess all
of it. That's my whole My answer is all that's fair.
Well real quick before I let you go, we finished
(29:37):
each episode with a little this or that game we
called the Purple Hot seats, and just three little rapid
fire questions. So the first one is the Draft of
the Pro Bowl, your favorite off season events. So I
have to pick a favorite child. Again, that's what you're
telling me, sorry, Um, I would say, let's say Roger
would definitely say the draft because he says he loves
(29:58):
to be part. That's why they hug and some guys
cry and they pick them up because it's like part
of their lives are changing right at that moment. It's
all that hope and everybody's equal, nobody's winning or losing
that day. Um, I do love the draft but I
would have to say I have This is kind of cheesy,
but I have like a romantic memory of the Pro
Bowl because one of our big dates was where that.
(30:21):
He asked me if I wanted to go, which just
sounds so crazy, you like to come to Hawaii to
the Pro Bowl. So I was like, yeah, I'll do that.
That sounds very crazy, but it was kind of wild
WorldWind romantic, So I guess I'll go with Pro Bowl
for the romance factor. I've seen nobody's answered that before.
Absolutely not, he went, for sure, that's the kind of
(30:45):
day I'm trying to get into Hawaii. There you go. Um,
so this one is a little are their best super
Bowl hostedy? But it's ravens additions? So are two super
Bowls where it's either Tampa or New Orleans. I got you, Okay.
So I was just in Tampa this year and almost
nobody from out of town was there because of COVID.
(31:06):
So I got to see Tampa in a very different way.
Um you know, you know we wished it was normal,
but um but it was, so I got so it
was very charming because I got to see made a
lot of locals and experienced the city quieter. Um, So
I really didn't know Tampa that well, and I loved it.
I thought that was the water was beautiful, the weather
was incredible. It was just like they were so excited
(31:28):
to have that Super Bowl obviously there and then have
the home team playing. Um, New Orleans. It's hard to
beat because you can kind of walk everywhere. So, M,
I don't know, what do you answer. I guess I
would say in New Orleans maybe, but it's a tough call.
They're both, They're all every city is has their own. Yeah,
I'm biased. I lived in New Orleans for a year.
(31:49):
I entered to the Saints before I was in the Ravens,
So I'm taking New Orleans for everything all the time.
But the boat parade was really good. That was awesome,
and I feel like more cities in the water should
do stuff like that. So, I mean, I get like
COVID everything it worked out perfectly, but it was just
that it was so fun watching the TV. Well, they
also that city they use the water really well, like
(32:11):
they live on the water really well and they enjoy
it and it's not just something to look at. So um, yeah, anyway,
no sense, Tampa, we love you too. I mean, I
would really go to either for being honest, so it's true.
And then this one's a little more for you. So
your favorite storytelling media podcast or documentary. Oh gosh, well,
this is funny. When I was a TV reporter, like
(32:34):
working working up the ranks, going from smaller markets, bigger
market whatever, um, they used to as a local reporter,
they would have you go and do read the news
for some radio stations, and so I can remember going, um,
one station I did it a lot for and they
had you go like in your pajamas because you'd go
at six months in the morning and then you'd go
to work. And I remember leaving one saying, um, I'm
(32:59):
you know, I'm a TV porter. That's kind of what
I'm about. But I remember leaving saying that I love
the power of radio. Just having a microphone, you feel
so much looser. Um. And now that we're doing this podcasting,
I have to say in a funny way, even though
I live such a visual person, but I love how
intimate you can get. And um, I think you get
(33:20):
really good answers from people when they don't have the
pressure of feeling like there's cameras and people staring at
them and that kind of stuff. When it's almost like
you're sitting around having a beer, it just happens to be,
you know, a microphone ary of headphones on. Um. So
I'm kind of falling in love with podcasting. Yeah, I
totally get that. The people definitely feel more comfortable and
(33:42):
there's not like a camera in their face. They don't
have to worry about like smiling and sitting right the
whole time and all of that for sure. Yeah. So
um anyway, and I think I was saying this earlier
to you though, Cassie, before we started recording. I have
been listening to yours, and your podcasts are so great.
I really appreciate that. That means a lot. Thank you,
(34:02):
and I'm so grateful for you taking the time to
talk to us today. It was such an honor to
be joined by Jane Skinner Goodell on this week's episode
of The Purple Chair Podcast. We have one episode left
in the first season, so stay tuned for that. Don't
forget to leave us a rating. If you're enjoying the podcast,
subscribe and tell all your people I'll talk to you soon.
There are very few names more iconic in the NFL
than Goodell. Roger Goodell has been the NFL's commissioner since
two thousand and six. But there's another Goodell moving and
shaking things up in the league. Jane Skinner Goodell, yes
wife of Roger, has been a trailblazer in amplifying the
stories of women in the league. She's produced a documentary,
(00:27):
A Lifetime of Sundays, that chronicles for NFL matriarchs, and
is currently producing a podcast and NBC television series called
Earning It, the NFL's Forward Progress. I told Jane that
we're kindred spirits and the work we're doing to amplify
women in the game, and I'm so honored that she
joins me today for this episode of the Purple Chair Podcast.
(00:48):
Let's Dive in. Well, I'm so excited to have you
on today, like I said, because I feel like we're
kind of kindred spirits with the podcast that we're working on.
For me, the goal of this podcast, the Purple Chair Podcast,
was the highlight voices that you don't say we hear
from both in our organization and the NFL. You know,
we hear from the men a lot and I think
it's there's really so many powerful women in and around
this organization. I just think it's really important to amplify
(01:10):
those voices. And you're working on this really cool project
with the NFL called the Earning It Podcast, the NFL's
Forward Progress and for fans, you might not know it's
a new podcast. It features the stories of women in
the NFL from the field to the front office, and
it's hosted by the NFL Senior Director of Diversity and Inclusion,
Sam Rappaport. So how did this podcast kind of come
about initially? Well, first, I agree with you, Cassie that
(01:33):
we are kindred spirits, except for you have a much
better name for media, Cassie Calvert. If I had had
that name, I would have liked really gone places in
my TV career. Jade Skinner is not quite as exciting
as that. So it's a perfect um podcast host name. Um. Well,
you know the podcast that we're doing, Earning It is
a companion to a series of TV series that I'm
(01:55):
producing with NFL Films and NBC Peacock, And it's really
what I really have wanted to do is I've had
this kind of fifty yard line seat to watch this
project and progress I'm sorry being made with women coming
into the league, and I wanted to chronicle it because
I felt like it's happening so fast in five six years, Um,
(02:16):
how much has changed. We're seeing coaches on the field
and now two female officials working Sarah Thomas and Maya Chaka,
and then behind the scenes in front offices and owner suites.
You know, it's all just kind of exploding, and I
really wanted to make sure that we have it down,
UM so people understand a what's happening, and also be
how it's happening and how very much um the men
(02:39):
are involved in this, and they of course need to
be as I like to say my pet peeves women
speaking to women about women's progress, right, and I'm getting
anywhere and um, you know on this podcast for a
good example of that is the Washington football team coach
Ron rivera Is said he was the first to raise
his hand, um for uh when somebody suggested. When our
(03:00):
podcast host Sam Rapp Report suggested creating this pipeline for women,
he said, I'm in what do I have to do?
I'll show up, I'll meet anybody I want to hire someone.
Um so in any case. It's so it's kind of
come out of my um passion for storytelling to do
the series and also do the podcast. I pitched the
podcast to I Heart Media and said, I kind of
(03:22):
have an idea for who might be a great host. Um,
it's not me. It's not somebody who is a sportscaster
or been in television before or on air or in radio. Um,
it's this woman who had the guts. Really about seven
or eight years ago, Sam to say to my husband
Roger on a high school football field when they were
there for a flag football tournament. Um. And when he
(03:44):
said to her, how you doing, Sam? And she said,
great commission, I have a dream. And she just spoken
and she said I was a she's a former professional
women's tackle quarterback. There are tons of them in this country, players, women,
professional players. And she said, I have all these are
football minds that are my friends that he just happened
to be female minds. And there's no way for them
(04:05):
to access the NFL. If you're Bill Belichick, you know
how the past works and how you could become potentially
a coach or a head coach someday. There is no
pipeline for women and I would love to see if
we could create one, and you know, to his credit,
he said, call me Monday. So, um, it has been
you know, it has been easy by any means, but
(04:25):
it's been fascinating to watch. And so I pitched her
and they said she sounds great. And so then I
had to call Sam and say, hey, uh, got you
an extra job And she said, I have a full
time job. I have no idea how to be a
podcast host, but in her way, because she is has
so much energy and such a great voice and is
(04:47):
a great storyteller. Um, I said, she said, I'll try it.
I'll give it a shot and we'll see what happens.
And so we're now six episodes into it. And the
beauty of having her she's a natural, and the beauty
of in her as the host is that she has
built this pipeline and brought these women into the game
with her guests. So when Ron Rivera comes on, he's
(05:08):
going to give I can guarantee you a much better
interview with Sam Rappaport than was somebody else because they
have done the work together. Um, and she's close to
a lot of these female coaches and the Sarah Thomas
is of the world. Um, so it's been really she's
kind of dug interesting things out of um the guests,
and I think she's told the story in a way
(05:30):
that you know, nobody else is telling it. I love
that you said how quickly kind of this really has worked,
because just I've only been in the league four or
five years now, and it's night and day, you know,
like from the time that I started, And it's really
cool to really see that change taking place and feel
like where you get to be like a small small
part of that. Um. You mentioned that your husband was
obviously involved because she pitched the initial idea to him,
(05:51):
and he's featured on the first episode, So what was
it like to work with him in that setting. Well,
we've definitely never done that before. So I did give
her a prep session on a few secret things to
ask about, including what makes him cry, and she did
make him cry. Um, he does. He likes to cry
at rom Coms was the big takeaway. But um, you
(06:13):
know they talked about a lot about his family too,
and um, his mom and what were who were his influences?
But um, it was fun. I joined that podcast. It
was our very first episode, and I really thought it
was important that people knew who Sam was too, and
so I kind of played the role of third wheel
there and that I got to ask her a few
questions so people got to know who she is. I mean,
(06:35):
by the way, the second thing she asked me, after
how much time will it take to be a podcast?
To become a good podcast? How she said, can I swear?
So she Um, she really is so fun and funny,
and I wanted to bring that out and so that
people immediately in the series got to know who she
was and how you know, truly authentic she is and
how much of a great football line she is too. Um.
(06:58):
And then to have her are kind of pressing him.
I'm not the one pressing my husband questions. He was
pressing him on the questions and giving him the hard ones.
It was a blast. Um. I think he had fun too.
You know, it lasted a long time. He had thirty
minutes scheduled in his office and we were there for
two hours. So um, they I think they would encourage
(07:18):
people to listen to it, and we split it into
two parts because there was so much stuff. But it
really gives a good um view into how an organization
you don't have to be a football fan to listen, right,
how an organization UM creates change UM and there, you know,
they talk about what are the stumbling blocks and how
do the players feel about having a female coach. That's saying,
(07:39):
you know, one of the big questions that gets answered
to in the in the series. Yeah, we heard that
when we had a coacher Lori Locus, who's with the
Buccaneers now and training camp one year and people ask
me that all the time, like they don't care if
she knows this game. She knows the game, you know,
like they learned from anyone. I love that you mentioned
the rom com thing because that was probably my favorite
(07:59):
part of the episode. I just that was the most
surprising thing to me, big Hugh Grant fan Roger Goodell,
I never would have And actually Sam tweeted when the
episode came out, she tweeted at Hugh Grant when we
were like, oh, please let him answer, because we want
them to have some sort of conversation. But alas he
is not doesn't matter though Roger still got his I
(08:21):
guess you'd call it a man crush. I don't know
what it is, but he comes on screen. It does
not matter. The movie. They're all classics. That's fair. Do
you have a Do you have a favorite episode of
the Internet podcast that you guys have done so far? Well,
that is a little like asking me my favorite child, right,
So they're all really different, which is we did try
(08:42):
to make them different, So I don't know if I
have a favorite. Obviously, the first two were fun because
it was with Sam and Roger. Um, we had you know,
Billy Jean king on to kind of, um give us
some perspective. She was on an episode with some of
the coaches and um, the female coaches and the head
coach is the male head coaches, and then to give
her perspective on how change is made. And she was
(09:04):
big on this idea of you have to find you know,
and I guess now they're called male allies, but you know,
in her day it was just like men in power, right,
or men want to be part of change, and you know,
she was big on saying if if they don't respond
in the first a few attempts, move on, you'll find
(09:24):
somebody who will help you. Um. So it was really
interesting to hear um how much has changed since her day,
but also to get that kind of um perspective and advice.
She's a big Bruce Arians fan. They're close. She likes
the Bucks, um and she follows the Patriots too, so
she's a big football fan too. Um. That was really fun.
We have as a tease. Our last episode of the
(09:47):
season is coming out right before the super Bowl, and
of woman produces the halftime show. I don't know if
you knew that Dian Harmon, who's a super genius production
and musical genius, and um where speaking to her, and
then we had this kind of funny idea of bringing
along somebody who's in a story it could be the
(10:07):
play the role of halftime historian and talk about what
are the iconic shows and do you use history when
you're going to develop this year show and play it creatively?
And so I said to her, what about quest Love?
Somebody like that from the roots, right from Jimmy Fallons show,
Who might be? He seems like a real student of
history and then been a professor and all this stuff,
And she said, oh, I'll text him. So they were friendly,
(10:29):
which I didn't know, and so we got so lucky.
So they tease I'll give you is that they both
said in things change in and they explain why, and
they go through a lot of the big shows, and
then she gives a little hint as to what we're
going to see this year, so um and he talks
(10:50):
a lot about They talk about their favorite shows and
why and what and then and then Sam asked them
if you could pick a halftime show. You know, they
had very interesting answers to so that is a wild combination. Yeah,
I know, I know, it's fun. I don't even know
what would you say to that? Would you have an
answer to that if you had a favorite half? Oh
my gosh. I feel like it has to appeal to
(11:10):
like so many different kinds of people, which is I'm
always so impressed when they are able to do that,
you know, like it cares that many acts right that
do that. Yeah, yeah, I'm a big Drake fan, so
I would love to see him make it up there sometime.
But I thought that the weekend one was really cool
with all the like mirrors and everything. I mean, it
has to be like visual too. Well. They do talk
(11:33):
about that a lot. Is that they know people. They said,
people don't really focus on how it's really for television, right,
It's not so much for what's in the stadium, and
they said they knew that the show, the weekend show
was different because it was COVID, they were very limited
in what they could do, but that it would be
successful because it instantly became a meme. The mirrors, you know,
when he was walking on it was all over social
(11:56):
media instantaneously. So they knew it would go down in
history as a point right that it was, um something
that will always be like recalled and remembered. So but
they did I don't know if they intended it that
way or not. Um, that is interesting. Yeah, that makes
it more memorable and it's kind of captured in history
on the internet forever. Yeah. Um, So you mentioned kind
(12:19):
of when we were talking about the podcast at the
top that it's also there has been a companion with
there's a video series that launches on NBC and Peacock
in January. So what can fans kind of expect from
the video version of that? How does it kind of
expand on the audio? Yeah, it's definitely different. Um. The
podcast really is Sam's voice and talking about creating the pipeline.
She is in episode one of our TV series, because
(12:41):
we start at the beginning of how these women really
a lot of them got there. We profile more than
twenty women. Um and it's really a lot about access
to it's the story of change also. But UM NFL films,
we get an incredible access where an owners suites at
training ants. We're going to do it a really kind
(13:02):
of a hopefully epic episode on halftime preparation. UM Mary J.
Blige will be in it. She is the one woman
out of the five performers on stage. So there's an
episode called, um you know kind of you go first
and being the only woman in the room kind of idea. UM.
A lot of trailblazers that way. UM. So it's not
just the women you see on the field, it's also
(13:23):
off the field. And UM, it's it's fun. One of
our you actually interviewed. One of our subjects is um
kim My Ali, who represents I think Ronnie Stanley. Um
so she's great. She's with say kwe for his big
comeback after he was injured or we kind of follow
her that day, um and are with them throughout that season.
(13:47):
And so anyway, it's a it's it's a very very
deep dive. That's that's fun. It's been a blast. It's
really Um, it's a it's it's something that hasn't really
been before, and it's kind of a model we're using
as like a documse series that they that films hasn't
really done before. But I think it'll be great. I
can't wait to watch that. Kim was great. She was
(14:08):
literally like when I was talking to her for the podcast,
she was in the waiting room going to an injury
from appointment with one of her clients, Like I thought,
I was busy, like multitasking. I don't know how how
you do that, But I love that. The video series
kind of reminds me of the documentary that you also
did with the NFL on the Life a Lifetime of Sundays,
(14:30):
which highlighted for that kind of NFL matriarchs female ownership
in the league. And it's cool to me the kind
of juxtaposition of these two projects because, like like you mentioned,
the just over the last couple of years, we've seen
so much change and these women have kind of been there,
but they've seen the league change in their tenure with
their families being an ownership, and they kind of don't
(14:51):
even realize that they've been trailblazers in that way. Um
that's just like fascinating to me, the kind of two
generations that like we're talking about here. Yeah, you know,
it's it's funny you point that out, because the original
idea when we did a Lifetime of Sundays with the
four women in their eighties and nineties or the team owners,
as you said, my original idea was to do it together,
(15:11):
was to have um so, say you had Martha Ford was,
you know, running the team at the time in the
owner's suite, and then you'd have Kim Pogula with the
Buffalo Bills running the team and do kind of comparables.
But we had it was a hundred year of the
NFL a few years ago when we were shooting the
Lifetime of Sundays, and we had so much incredible history
(15:32):
with those four women that we decided to just leave
that as almost like an historical piece that they're just
telling tales that hadn't been told really publicly before. Um So,
so this was kind of a Lifetime of Sundays also
almost like two point oh. But it's turned into something
because in that short period of time that was let's
(15:52):
say nineteen that the documentary came out, and just within
those two two and a half years, there have been
so many more women coming into these rules that, um,
this became bigger. Not just a one piece documentary, but
we're doing a five part series on it. It's pretty exciting,
um to see, you know, just how quickly it's all happening.
For sure, It's cool to me. It seems like so
(16:14):
much of your work has been on focused on amplifying
these women in football. How why has that been so
important to you? Oh? Well, you know, I grew up.
I'm the only girl and the youngest, and my dad
got season tickets to the Chicago Bears in nineteen seventy two.
So I started going to games when I was a
little girl. And it's funny, I always look around. Now.
(16:36):
We were just a Vikings game a few weeks ago,
sitting in the stands, and my first thing I always
do is look around to see, like how different it is.
I was an anomaly, right, and I don't know the
early seventies, mid seventies as a little girl in Soldier Field,
but now that's just so commonplace to see women and girls. Um.
So it's so thankfully because I'm married to Roger, I
(16:56):
like it would be a real problem if I didn't.
But UM and I do love the game, and UM
and I do I think secretly probably I if I
had had, if there had been more opportunities, I think
like maybe I would have done something that one of
these women are doing. It didn't really occur to me
(17:17):
because there weren't. It wasn't the see it you can
be it then, UM, and I just I really love
they're how brave they are and UM their ability to
be trailblazers and take whatever that you know, adversity comes
with that and power through it, and they know that
they're you know, making a mark for um next generations.
(17:39):
And I just felt like, like, what a great story
to take the most masculine place right on, which would
be maybe an NFL football field, and have women saying
I can do this too, because, as you know, Kevin Stefanski,
who is the Brown's head coach, said on the podcast,
you know, football isn't gendered. I have a daughter and
(17:59):
I have sons, and it's like, it's such a fascinating,
great game just for kids to play, right, And how
did it become you know, necessarily this way that you
couldn't work in it, Um, just because of your gender.
It shouldn't be that way. We want, you know, diversity
of thought. Um anyhow so, so really that is kind
of how my passions came together. I've been a TV
(18:21):
journalist for twenty years, and so I thought visually, also,
it's such a great story and we have great access
if um, we had films involved, and so I feel
very lucky. It's I mean, it's truly is like the
absolute passion project. I love that get chills. UM. I
love too that you said you know, in hindsight, you know,
(18:43):
if those opportunities have been there for you, like you
might have chosen to do something like that. We have, UM,
when we have our youth football camps here, they allow
they always obviously allow female athletes as well, and we've
had coaches bring their daughters and their sons to these camps,
these flag football camps, and I always see these kids
out and I'm like, I would have loved something like yeah,
I was little, you know, and it's awesome, Like an
(19:04):
NFL sponsored event that's also for female athletes is so cool. Girl.
So yeah, you know, it's interesting. We have this great
shot with the interview with Sarah Thomas, who's the official
and she has a daughter. She has two sons and
a little girl. And this great shot of her daughter
dressed up as her for Halloween. Right, she's wearing the
black and white stripe. She has her ponytail sticking out
of her cap, um, you know. And she said, that's
(19:27):
huge to me to know that she doesn't have to
wonder can I do this? Because I'm a girl. It
won't be a question for her. So, um, that's you know,
that's powerful stuff. Yeah, totally. You mentioned kind of off
the top when Sam approached Roger about the pipeline, and
I've really seen you know, them, their collaboration, just being
a part of the league, and what have you seen
(19:48):
from him kind of his drive to be more inclusive
of women in the NFL. And is that something you
guys have talked about kind of over his tenure. Yeah,
you know, I wouldn't say we overtly talked about it,
because it's really just kind of who he is. Um.
He grew up in a family of all boys, which
is interesting. He's the middle of five boys, which I
always explains a lot about her personality. He loves a
(20:09):
good competition. Um. So interestingly enough, he didn't have sisters um,
which sometimes people say, you know, makes you more attuned
to UM these types of issues, But it's always just
been naturally part of who he is. A reporter asked
me several years ago, is Roger supportive of women? And
(20:30):
I just kind of laughed and I said, well, I
wouldn't have married him if he wasn't write And it
hadn't really occurred to me, um, that I would be
with someone who wasn't. We also now have daughters, so
I do think that's you know, people talk a lot
about the girl dad phenomenon, but I do think they
have an impact too, UM. And they are massive football fans,
(20:54):
very smart football fans, and they are willing to say
tell him, are I love to see it? Uh? Anyhow
so I think that's all part of it. It It doesn't
we don't. We don't sit around and say how can
we empower women? At all? I think he just he
He also is just a type of leader who UM wants.
(21:17):
He doesn't want to walk into a conference room at
the league office and for people to say, Gosh, you're right, Roger,
you're right. Um. He wants a diversity of thoughts, so
whatever form that comes in, he wants the debate, UM,
and he encourages it. So that's just a part of
who he is, and so it would it does make
sense that, UM, that he would be very comfortable being
(21:39):
a leader in this field totally. I think that's like
speaks to being a good leader in general for sure,
no matter what your role is, that's so important. UM.
Kind Of on the personal side, as I've been doing
this podcast, like we talked about before, we've I've talked
to players, spouses and moms, the wife of a general
manager and head coach, our head coaches daughter, and it's
just really interesting to me personally, UM, you know, dealing
(22:03):
with kind of being in the spotlight of these roles,
and especially in a role where you know, I talked
to John Harball's daughter and having to grow up in
Baltimore where if the team doesn't win on Sunday she
had to go to school the next day, UM and
face that. You know, So, what is it like for
your family? You guys are kind of on even more
extreme because you're national, you know, not just in a
local market. To deal with being the family of the
(22:26):
commissioner of the NFL. What is that like? UM? I
will say that it's UM First of all, it's we
always remind each other all the time like we're so lucky.
It is, as Rod Aloys says, such a privilege um.
And we get to do the most um fun and
you know, kind of special things um as a family.
(22:47):
So UM, I never want to sound like I'm complaining
at all about it. I will acknowledge are definitely hard
days when you know people are tough on him and
is a tough on your family, Yes, he's the first
to say. Um. I will say that I have learned
from the way Roger handles it and the way my
daughters handle it, and I'm trying to be better about it.
(23:08):
It's really hard to see someone you love when things
are said about them that just aren't true. People can
disagree with their positions or decisions or whatever, but when
they're saying things that aren't true, that's when I bothers
me because I also I'm also in a strange position
because I was in the media, so I was on
the other side of it for many years. So um,
there are difficult days. I, as you probably know, I did.
(23:32):
I did not perform my best when I had like
a secret Twitter account when I'm never doing that again.
I was totally embarrassed and I had to come home
and tell my children, don't do what I did. This
is the teaching moment for the day. And they were like, Mom,
so they would never do that. They're very chill. Um.
I would say. The best like words of wisdom I
(23:52):
ever got was when they were in middle school. They're twins,
and one of them, I said, are you guys okay?
I know it's really hard day for your dad, and
they had come home from school. One of them said,
I know who my dad is. It's okay. And I
thought that I'm going to kind of adopt that as
my you know, zen mantra maybe UM going forward is
(24:15):
that you I think you just have to know you
know what's true and what's not true, and that comes
with the territory. And he doesn't let it bother him
at all. Um. He uses it as fuel, as he
likes to say, um, the criticism and likes to keep
going and make things better. Which, by the way, we've
heard a lot from these female coaches who and uh
(24:37):
women in other positions who deal with diversity all the time,
and they say, you just have to you know, you
have to put it somewhere either don't look at it
at all, or you take it and you use it
UM to power you going forward. UM. So I'm learning
from everyone else. I'm not a lot of UM dealing
with it the best. We talked about it a lot though.
(24:57):
It's interesting. I did listen to the interview you did
with red Um and their daughter. Uh. We talked about
it a lot, is UM at the annual meeting. You know,
a lot of the spouses will we'll have time to
UM see each other and meet with each other. And
you know, it's hard, like I think the teams, the
head coaches, wives and g ms, and I think those
families have it harder UM because they also can not
(25:20):
know what their fate is and have to pick up
and move UM and move their families and UM. Sometimes
it's harder being in a community like that in that
fish bowl. UM. Oh, but everybody has different ways of
dealing with that. So it's good to like air it out. Yeah,
I was. That was one of my favorite UM one
parts when I was listening Food to Earn a podcast
(25:41):
episodes with Roger and I just thought that was really refreshing.
He had really great perspective on it and even for me,
like I deal with it on a much smaller scale,
but it's so easy, like to take things personally. And
you know, I think he said, like it's not a
business for thin skin, and that's so true. But um,
and I liked what you mentioned, like what Sam was
saying that they kind of off to the female coaches
(26:02):
about that, and she said, you know, you don't take
criticism from someone you wouldn't go to for advice. And
I literally wrote that down because I'm like, you know,
I get on the internet and you read these things
that people say about you and they don't know you,
you know, and it's I wouldn't go to them, you
know what I'm dealing with the decision they need to make.
So that's really it was really cool perspective. I thought,
you know, I love that line. And also a few
years ago, so um at the Fitly Annual meeting, I
(26:24):
get a lot of this big, big now group of
spouses together and bring in people to talk. And Reese
Witherspoon came a few years ago, and so I said
to her, you know, you have a family, and she's
definitely stumbled in different places and her incredibly successful career,
and I said, can you give advice for people in
the room. It's not the same Hollywood and football whatever,
(26:45):
but you know it, dealing with the media kind of is.
And she she was so funny, she said, don't scroll down.
So we put it on a T shirt like it's
really good advice. Though she said, you don't, I'll post
to picture. I'm not I'm not asking for people to come.
You know, I'm not looking for the comments. I just
(27:05):
that's part of my world and my brand and all that,
and I move on. Um, And I think that's a
healthy way to look at it. It's you know, easier
said than done a lot of times. But for sure
I think it's Taylor Swift that just has her comments
section completely off, and like I aspired to, that also
a good way to do it. Do you have a
(27:27):
favorite memory from your time around the NFL. I know
you probably have so many. You guys have had so
many crazy experiences. Is there anything that really sticks out
to you? UM? I don't know. I just feel like, UM,
I guess the one thing I would say is it's
not really a singular thing, but every time I go
(27:49):
to a stadium and you it's like pregame and you
take your seat and it's the buzz and then the
Nationals them and then kick off and like that, you know,
four minute moment or five minute moment. I every it
does not matter if it's preseason, the super Bowl, whatever
(28:09):
it is. I think that is one of the most
special um experiences. It's like a truly American experience. It's
um a great one of the greatest sports experiences. Um
So I you know, you're talking about getting chills like
I do get chills till every single time going to
a game. So I'm not sure I could pick one. Um.
(28:32):
You know, if the Bears are winning, you know, that's
good too. But it's like the anticipation before before the
kicks even happens, that yeah, yeah, the game's gonna go. Yeah.
I love that. And it's very electric, right yeah. It's
all that energy through Yeah, and you kind of forget
it does It is a place that makes you kind
of you know, put aside. You're not working, you're off work,
(28:56):
and you're having maybe a beer and you're with your
buddies or whatever, your family. It's just a it's a
cool and just to see those athletes is like such
a privilege to like they are the things they do
with their bodies are just so remarkable. Uh so I
don't know all of it. And then they're you know,
(29:16):
then there's so many remarkable guys off the field to
who you don't even really know about until you talk
to them. And then they have these incredible you know,
foundations and the work that they do and um with
their communities, and so it's so true. I guess all
of it. That's my whole My answer is all that's fair.
Well real quick before I let you go, we finished
(29:37):
each episode with a little this or that game we
called the Purple Hot seats, and just three little rapid
fire questions. So the first one is the Draft of
the Pro Bowl, your favorite off season events. So I
have to pick a favorite child. Again, that's what you're
telling me, sorry, Um, I would say, let's say Roger
would definitely say the draft because he says he loves
(29:58):
to be part. That's why they hug and some guys
cry and they pick them up because it's like part
of their lives are changing right at that moment. It's
all that hope and everybody's equal, nobody's winning or losing
that day. Um, I do love the draft but I
would have to say I have This is kind of cheesy,
but I have like a romantic memory of the Pro
Bowl because one of our big dates was where that.
(30:21):
He asked me if I wanted to go, which just
sounds so crazy, you like to come to Hawaii to
the Pro Bowl. So I was like, yeah, I'll do that.
That sounds very crazy, but it was kind of wild
WorldWind romantic, So I guess I'll go with Pro Bowl
for the romance factor. I've seen nobody's answered that before.
Absolutely not, he went, for sure, that's the kind of
(30:45):
day I'm trying to get into Hawaii. There you go. Um,
so this one is a little are their best super
Bowl hostedy? But it's ravens additions? So are two super
Bowls where it's either Tampa or New Orleans. I got you, Okay.
So I was just in Tampa this year and almost
nobody from out of town was there because of COVID.
(31:06):
So I got to see Tampa in a very different way.
Um you know, you know we wished it was normal,
but um but it was, so I got so it
was very charming because I got to see made a
lot of locals and experienced the city quieter. Um, So
I really didn't know Tampa that well, and I loved it.
I thought that was the water was beautiful, the weather
was incredible. It was just like they were so excited
(31:28):
to have that Super Bowl obviously there and then have
the home team playing. Um, New Orleans. It's hard to
beat because you can kind of walk everywhere. So, M,
I don't know, what do you answer. I guess I
would say in New Orleans maybe, but it's a tough call.
They're both, They're all every city is has their own. Yeah,
I'm biased. I lived in New Orleans for a year.
(31:49):
I entered to the Saints before I was in the Ravens,
So I'm taking New Orleans for everything all the time.
But the boat parade was really good. That was awesome,
and I feel like more cities in the water should
do stuff like that. So, I mean, I get like
COVID everything it worked out perfectly, but it was just
that it was so fun watching the TV. Well, they
also that city they use the water really well, like
(32:11):
they live on the water really well and they enjoy
it and it's not just something to look at. So um, yeah, anyway,
no sense, Tampa, we love you too. I mean, I
would really go to either for being honest, so it's true.
And then this one's a little more for you. So
your favorite storytelling media podcast or documentary. Oh gosh, well,
this is funny. When I was a TV reporter, like
(32:34):
working working up the ranks, going from smaller markets, bigger
market whatever, um, they used to as a local reporter,
they would have you go and do read the news
for some radio stations, and so I can remember going, um,
one station I did it a lot for and they
had you go like in your pajamas because you'd go
at six months in the morning and then you'd go
to work. And I remember leaving one saying, um, I'm
(32:59):
you know, I'm a TV porter. That's kind of what
I'm about. But I remember leaving saying that I love
the power of radio. Just having a microphone, you feel
so much looser. Um. And now that we're doing this podcasting,
I have to say in a funny way, even though
I live such a visual person, but I love how
intimate you can get. And um, I think you get
(33:20):
really good answers from people when they don't have the
pressure of feeling like there's cameras and people staring at
them and that kind of stuff. When it's almost like
you're sitting around having a beer, it just happens to be,
you know, a microphone ary of headphones on. Um. So
I'm kind of falling in love with podcasting. Yeah, I
totally get that. The people definitely feel more comfortable and
(33:42):
there's not like a camera in their face. They don't
have to worry about like smiling and sitting right the
whole time and all of that for sure. Yeah. So
um anyway, and I think I was saying this earlier
to you though, Cassie, before we started recording. I have
been listening to yours, and your podcasts are so great.
I really appreciate that. That means a lot. Thank you,
(34:02):
and I'm so grateful for you taking the time to
talk to us today. It was such an honor to
be joined by Jane Skinner Goodell on this week's episode
of The Purple Chair Podcast. We have one episode left
in the first season, so stay tuned for that. Don't
forget to leave us a rating. If you're enjoying the podcast,
subscribe and tell all your people I'll talk to you soon.
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