April 18, 2025 • 28 mins
On this episode of the Twentyman in the Huddle podcast presented by Microsoft, Tim Twentyman previews the 2025 NFL Draft next week by hosting Detroit Lions Director of College Scouting Brian Hudspeth and NFL.com media analyst Daniel Jeremiah.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
With the twenty fourth pick and the twenty twenty four
NFL Draft, the Detroit Lions select Terry and Arnold defensive
back Alabama.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Welcome to the Twin l Huddle podcast presented by Microsoft.
It is Draft week and I'm so happy to welcome
in Brian Hudspith, the director of college scouting for the
Detroit Lions. And Brian, before we start to look forward,
because that's what your job is, right You're constantly looking
at the next class, the next prospect, everything else. But
have you given you yourself and have you guys down
(00:33):
there given yourself any time to just step back and
kind of pat yourself on the back a little bit
for the last four years. I mean, you look at
some of this class. I mean, you guys have drafted
six Pro Bowlers in an All Pro in the last
four season. It's now become the core of your football team.
I know you're always looking forward, but have.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
You had a chance to just look back at all
and recognize what you guys have accomplished over the last
four years.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Let's appreciate that compliment. It's it's nice to always, you know,
look back at the class and look back at the
players that have been selected and how much they've been
able to contribute for our team, especially immediately. Uh. So
you know, we get a lot of compliments and so
it's it's always nice to hear, uh, but you know,
it's got to got to find the next guy now.
You know, we got to just keep adding to the
pieces that we have and continue just to add talent
(01:22):
and stack good drafts on top of good drafts. And uh,
I think that we're well on our way again this
year to do in that.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You know, what is this week like for you? You know,
you're you're a week out from the actual draft day.
Is it is the board pretty much set?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Is their excitement?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Is there a little bit of anxiety? Do you feel
like your your eyes are dotted, your teaser cross? There's
not much to do here? I guess what's this final
week of preparation like?
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Well, you know, it's a little bit of both. It's
a little bit of excitement and a little bit of anxiety.
You know, you're always trying to tie up the loose
ends right now and and you know quote unquote that
hey is never really in the barn. Uh. You know,
you feel like there's always one more thing you can do.
But you know, we're close, We're close to the end
and close to the end of this cycle, and we
feel good about where we are. We feel good about
where we are with the board. So we'll just continue
(02:09):
to make sure that all the eyes are dotted and
the t'ser crossed and you know, look forward to next week.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
You know, some teams have different strategies with the thirty visits.
I know, you know the rams out there, they don't
do them. You know, some of their teams maybe don't
use all thirty. I'm just curious how valuable in your
opinion are those visits. You guys obviously talk to these
guys throughout the entire year, your scouts and your department
do they have a pretty good profile of them. You
talk to them again at the combine, have that little
fifty minute window. But how important to you guys at
(02:37):
least are those thirty pre draft visits. Getting to spend
really quality time with those guys in your building, in
your environment, and how you guys.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Prepare well, you just answered the questions. It's invaluable time
to You can meet with them at your own pace.
You can meet with them, you know, in your own environment.
You can drill down on something, maybe something they said,
or maybe a question or two that maybe arose from
some other part of the process, whether it's a senior
bollete or the combine interview or whatever, and you get
them in your building and you kind of just put
them through the car wash again and let them meet
(03:06):
with every person and every support staff member and coach,
you know, scouts, everything and kind of go through the
process again. And so it just gives you a comfortability
with the player and allows you to really, you know,
kind of just get to know each other and just
envision them in your culture as well as them envision
being in this building.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And it's really the whole spectrum of the draft.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I mean, you guys have had top guys that are
expected to be first round guys, middle round guys, and
even how important to are is getting kind of on
the ground floor some of those guys that might be
undrafted free agents and knowing their story, knowing what they're
like before you get on that phone afterward and having
that relationship can sometimes be in the difference, can it
in a guy signing here?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
And we've seen in past years some of those guys
have made impacts on this team.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah. So my background, going all the way back into
my history is I started in college recruiting, so I've
been on that side of it where the players got
to pick. You see, it's much better for us in
the you know, seven rounds of the draft to pick
the players. But you do get into that situation after
the draft, there's still maybe a couple of guys out
there that you really really want and you know, fit
our culture and fit what we do, so you're always
trying to target those guys as well. You try to
(04:13):
use those visits strategically, you know, for like you said,
for maybe guys that are going in the first round.
Maybe it's guys that you envision more as like priority
free agent guys. But we do try to use those
visits appropriately. But it's good to have to see those
to see those guys in the same light as the
first round guys. You don't get them in the building,
they go through the process, they envision being here. You
envision them being in this building, and you hope that
(04:35):
you've built a strong enough relationship that you can use
that recruiting piece.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
At the end, you've been in the NFL for twenty
four years, you've been with the Lions seventies. You spent
time in Atlanta, Houston, Tampa Bay before Detroit. I'm just curious,
what's it like working with Jim brad Holmes Because I
ask people this who have been in other places too,
and a smile comes to their face, just like a
smile just came to yours. That You've been in a
(05:00):
lot of different spots, You've seen a lot of different processes.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Maybe how how is Brad's a little bit different? What's
it like working with Brad? To me from the outside,
he seems like a guy that just kind of maybe.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Gives everybody an opinion and a voice, and that might
be a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
That you hit the helm on the head being in
those places I've been. I've been through a lot of
general managers, unfortunately, you know I've been through when I
think Brad, maybe it was my ninth GM and the
twenty four years and all those stops. But you know,
the process with Brad and how he manages us is
everybody has a little piece of ownership of the of
the entire process, and he allows you to you know,
(05:35):
you can be creative, you can do it how you
want to do it. His Lens obviously is college scouting.
He sat in my chair before as a college scouting director.
But he allows me to do my job and allows
me to have ownership and how I want to manage
the guys and how some of the processes, And even
though it's his system, he still gives me some creativity
and some autonomy to do that. But I would say
probably the biggest difference in how we do it here
(05:56):
versus some other places I've been is the thoroughness of
the whole thing, Like the way we break it down
and kind of deconstruct it into small, little individual pieces.
And like you said, different voices in different areas of
the organization have their piece of it, whether it's the
coaches or the scouts, or the docs or you know,
our player development people. You know, everybody has their individual
(06:17):
piece of it, and you have ownership in that, and
so your voice comes through and how thorough you are
with your piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's probably not surprising to you then that it's led
to six Pro Bowl players and an All Pro When
you when you go down and let everybody have a
piece of it and you really break it down the
way you guys do, is it a unique process from
where you've been around the league.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Only unique in the sense that because it is so deconstructed.
You know, other places I've been we were thorough, but
we were thorough with everybody being involved to the very end.
I'm not, you know, we don't necessarily have everybody involved
in every single aspect of it to the very end.
But the pieces that people are responsible for, they have
ownership of those, and those things.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
They do them.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Well.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
You've been an area Scout, You've been a National Scout,
You've been an assistant director of College Scouting.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
What do you like most about this current, you know,
director of Scout College Scouting role.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
It's interesting, you know, I probably went twenty two years
of my career just managing myself, you know, managing my workflow,
managing my process, managing just my workload. And immediately when
I get the job from assistant director director now managing
twelve people across four different time zones from Seattle, Washington
to Jacksonville, Florida. So that's a challenge in it itself.
(07:33):
But I do enjoy that piece of it because I
am a people person and I enjoy I enjoy being
around people, and so just having influence on others and
making sure that our process is especially for my part
of the you know, the process in college scouting, just
making sure all those are tight and everybody's moving in
the same direction at the same time, in the same pace,
and so that that part's been really cool about it.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It seems like you're having a fun time in this
role and in this building and under this leadership.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Is like it fits you perfect.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Right, it does.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Just how much are you still on the road?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I guess, what what is your role when you get
to that director role? Now you're you're dealing with the
scouts and managing this us. Do you still like to
get on the.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Road a little bit? Do you still try to?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Can you does that scout and you still want to
see some of these guys live? I guess take me
through what's a typical week for you during the sea
during the NFL season and then maybe as soon as
it gets to the off season.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Kind of where do you transition?
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Well? During the season, obviously I live remotely. I live
in Nashville, so I don't live here in Detroit. But uh,
during the season, you know, I've had to tweak again
going back to I managed myself for a long time,
but now I'm managing others and myself, I had to
kind of tweak how I how I go about it.
I still try to get on the road at least
three days a week before if I'm lucky, but you know,
usually Mondays and Friday's are more reserved for administrative things,
(08:49):
you know, coming out of a game weekend, uh, you know,
getting prepared for the next week. Scouts have reports that
are do you weekly, so you know, obviously that work
has to be checked and just kind of I use
money in Friday's as kind of workflow days, you know,
making sure all the processes are moving correctly, and then
you know, try to get on the road Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
Try to go to some live games on the weekend
as I still can. Obviously, living in Nashville, you know,
(09:11):
Vanderbilt is right there in town, so I'm able to
see a lot of SEC teams come to come to
my city versus me having to go to some of
some of the other places. So that's been convenient convenient also,
But I still just try to go where the players are,
you know, where the where the best players are and
where you can see multiple players you know that we
have multiple grades on and you know with you know
some of the big schools, so you still try to
(09:33):
get to those as I can. I spend a lot
of time on airplane in the fall, that's for sure,
so you know, traveling coast to coast, but I try
to I try to manage my time appropriately and not
try to overextend myself. And it's funny that you asked
that question, because Brad told me from the very beginning
when I got the job, he said, I know, I said,
I know, you're going to try to go to every
every school in the country. He's like, you can't do that,
you know, just because you just physically can't get there,
(09:55):
and and so there's a lot of limitations with that.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
What's the difference in in your mind of watching a
guy live versus watching guy on tape? How much more
do you glean or enjoy watching it live versus the
cutups and everything else? You get and you can see
everything there, but do you look for things that maybe
you can't see on the tape when you're there live?
And what's maybe one or two of those things?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Absolutely, you know, there's no substitute for the live exposure.
But there's no substitute for the for the game film either.
So the best thing is to see on a live
exposure is number one, is you see a guy physically
in his pads. You know, how does he carry his pads,
what's his body type, that sort of thing. That's one
thing that you get from live exposure, whether that's at
practice or whether that's at a game, but things you
see at a game that you can't see on tape,
(10:37):
especially when you watch quarterbacks play. So I always encourage
our guys to watch quarterbacks play on the road if
you can, because you see him in other environments. You
see when things go bad. How do they interact with
their teammates on the sideline. What do they do when
they come off the sideline after an interception or make
a mistake or astall drive? You know, So just seeing
how those guys interact with their teammates, as they get
on the phone and talk to the coordinator, do they
(10:57):
throw their helmet, do they you know, what's the body whage,
what's the how do they approach pregame? So you see
a lot of that stuff too. Are they dialed in
during pregame or are they are they not dialed in
and you know, kind of lackadaisical. So it's good to
see those types of interactions and you don't get that
on film. Obviously.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I thought this would be a great question for you
because you've been around scouting and you've been around the
college ball for so long.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
How has N I NIL changed?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And I know this is gonna be a good answer
from that response. But you know you've been in it
now enough that you know, maybe guys are in three
different programs?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Does that help because you're throwing three different schemes, are.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Guys maybe not as ready for the NFL because they're
not in one place and you know, building through a
program and stuff like that. I'm just curious how how,
in your opinion, has NIL maybe changed the scouting.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
World a little bit?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Well? Are you asking me that question because I'm a
Tennessee GA and you're asking about that. No, I'm just.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Kind of a timely question, Yes, a timely question.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Well, twofold number one. One of the questions we always
used to ask when we went through schools is you know,
how's this kid going to be when he gets money?
You know, who's going to be in his support group,
Who's gonna be in a circle, who's gonna who's he
gonna have to take care of, who's he bringing with him?
How do you think he is going to handle no
money to now millions of dollars in his pocket. Well,
that question now was answered, you know, so we kind
of now have a little bit of an insight into
(12:15):
who's in their inner circle, who helps him make financial decisions,
how do they manage money, how do they manage themselves
in these real world situations now that they were previously
not always you know, not always vetted and tested against.
Now it wasn't or it wasn't public knowledge or was
under the table anyway. So but now we just know,
you know, kind of how that how they're gonna, how
(12:35):
that's gonna manifest itself and play itself out, which that
piece has been good. The downside of nil for us
is the nio enticeons he s gets to stay in
school now, so that there's a lot less depth in
the draft because you generally, at the at the peak
of underclassmen coming out, you had about one hundred and
twenty to one hundred and thirty players. Now it's down
to fifty five to seventy, so you've lost essentially almost
(12:59):
two rounds of players in some regards. Now that's making
the assumption that they were all going to be in
the you know, top rounds. But and they generally were, though,
but you've kind of lost some depth so that the
NIOL world has changed us a little bit that way,
and so that has been one kind of downside of it,
you know. But the one thing about going back to
(13:19):
your question about like guys bouncing around, it does hurt.
It does hurt some positions. You know, you have a
quarterback who's been in three you know, three different systems
in three years. You know, you have guys that have
never solidified themselves on a depth chart, so you're constantly wondering,
you know, what what happened at the previous place. It
causes us to have to do a lot more research
and a lot more vetting of the multiple stops before,
(13:41):
and the story can always change, so you have to
find those those relationships that you really lean on. And
that's where the area scouts really are invaluable, is that
the relationships they built over time at all these different
places to where you can pick up the phone and
call the guy at the previous stop and like, Hey,
what's the real story here? Like this school's telling me this.
You guys told me that. Like we're so trying to
find the you know, middle ground somewhere of what maybe
(14:04):
the true story is about why they're all the different
the different changes.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So made your job a little harder.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, right, Well, obviously we're not going to go through
your board or you know who you guys like don't
like what positions or whatever.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
But I guess maybe let's finish on this one.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
When you look at the twenty twenty five NFL draft,
what's maybe just a riding observation, what maybe how.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Would you describe this that this draft that you guys
are heading into now in a few days.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
You know, the thing that probably jumps out the most is,
you know, a lot of drafts you can kind of
peg the first five to ten picks right out right
out of the gate. You know, you know that these
are the ten guys that are going to go in
that in the top ten. I don't know that you
can say that in this draft, you know, because I
think this is going to come down to need. It's
gonna come down to a lot of guys where their
depth charts are. How whatever their draft strategy may be,
(14:53):
you know how free agency went for them. So I mean,
I think in this draft you're just going to see
you're not gonna be able to predict maybe past five.
You know, I don't even know if you could predict
the top five at this point. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So it's what it truly is. When when Brad Holmes
and his press conference last week said grab your popcorn
and just watch it, it's a grab.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Your popcorn and it enjoy it draft, isn't it is?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, I know you've been busy doing your work for
the last what year, maybe last over a year on
these guys. It all comes to a head Thursday night
in Green Bay. Thanks so much for taking the time here.
Great insight and good luck to you. Absolutely appreciate it.
Welcome back to the Twin M Huddle podcast. I am
now joined by Daniel Jeremiah.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
He is one of the best in the business for
the NFL network and analysts there and he'll be part
of that NFL coverage of the NFL drafting Green Bay
the twenty fourth to twenty six DJ.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Thanks for joining me. I appreciate it. I appreciate you.
Speaker 6 (15:49):
Can you give me like a somewhat area weather report here.
What are we looking like in the in that realm
of the country for this now?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Okay, so we're we're a little cold today where we're
we might get to fifty today, but it's gonna warm
up in the weekend. We got sixties and seventies coming in.
I heard it's gonna be pretty good in Green Bay
next week. They might get into the sixties in there,
So it should be it should be good. You're not
gonna freeze in the Midwest.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
Golf clubs by any chance. But I but I might
have to bring my overcoats. That's a win.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
I think you might be a little bit busy for that.
They keep you, They keep you pretty busy for those
three days. Well, let's get right into a dj I mean,
I guess when you look at this class overall, what
maybe jumps out to you? How would you classify this class?
What would be the big description of it?
Speaker 6 (16:35):
Yeah, for me, I've kind of used the theme of
this draft class as starters, not stars, Like we don't
necessarily have that, you know, that that sexy list of
guys up there at the top of the draft that
maybe we've had in other years, we've got a couple
of marquee players and that's Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter
and whatever order you want to put them. There's one,
you know, to me, one true you know, first round
(16:56):
quarterback in just about any draft at some point in time,
and that would be Campbell. And then after that, man,
it's just a bunch of guys that are going to
be you know, steady eddy, solid contributors, castolid contributors, and starters,
with a good group of defensive linemen kind of headlining
that class.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
You know that obviously with Detroit, you know that's one
of those those kind of needs there along the defensive line,
edge and defensive tackle. When you look at Brad Holmes,
obviously he doesn't draft for need. He takes best available,
and look what that's done over the last four years.
But when you do look at some of their needs
defensive line, interior offensive line, you know they could use,
(17:33):
you know, maybe some safety depth, some wide receiver death.
Where you mentioned the defensive line, some of those other
areas interior offensive line, maybe receiver safety, are those areas
where you're going to be able to find some guys
maybe well into Day two too.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Well, I think receiver wise. You know, I don't love
the first batch of receivers. Like the first round guys,
there's just a few of them, there's a handful. I
kind of like that second day group. I think there
is some depth there in the second and third round.
A couple kids from from Iowa State out to the
front of my mind on that list with Noel and Higgins.
But you know, that's solid interior offensive line. It's not again,
(18:08):
you've got a couple guys are gonna go in the
first round. I think we could have three. In fact,
I think Donovan Jackson would make some sense for Detroit.
I think he would be there out of Ohio State.
I don't love the you know, the middle tier interior
offensive line class though that I wouldn't necessarily say those
are strengths. But to me, like defensive tackles, yes, you
can find defensive tackles all throughout this draft. Edge rushers, yes,
(18:30):
like those are those are positions that I think you'll
be happy. You know, third, fourth round, You're gonna see
good players there.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I'm curious just your outside opinion of Detroit and Brad
Holmes in the job that he's done over the last
four years. I mean just DJ look at the drafts
and what's become their core, Penney Sewel, Saint Brown, Ali McNeil, Hutch,
Jamior Gibbs, Kirby, Joseph Laporter, Branch. I mean, we can
continue going on and on and on and on. They
(18:57):
just seem to hit every year. And you know, now
those guys have become the core. It's changed a little
bit because now some some you know, contracts are going
to be due. You you know, when you draft, Well,
that's the consequence right now You've got to pay these guys.
It's a good problem to have. But I'm just curious,
what have you thought about Brad Holmes. What's the perspective
of him outside of just the job he's done over
(19:20):
the last four years in the draft.
Speaker 6 (19:22):
Well, you know, I'm a big fan of his and
I din't I think we met for the first time
this year was the first time that we had maybe
it's seen each other in passing, but we were at
a game and we had a chance to catch up
on the sideline for about twenty minutes. And you know,
I've always had respect for him, you know, even before
he got to Detroit, and his reputation was solid and strong,
but getting a chance to meet with him, I felt like, Okay,
(19:42):
I kind of get it now. I understand what it
is because he's such a he's such a good communicator,
and he's a listener and he's an observer. I mean,
just out at the sideline, we're talking about guys that
were looking at that were getting ready to play in
this ball game, and it kind of hit me. And
I think this is true with a lot of the
best general managers. They understand people as well as understand players.
And those names that you just rattled off, if you
(20:05):
were to kind of weave a thread between all of them,
they're all ultra competitive guys, like they're you know, they
love ball, they're all in. They fit the culture that
they've established there with coach Campbell. So to me, I
think sometimes the player evaluation is not that difficult, but
it's the personal evaluation that's that can get people in trouble.
And I think he's just done a wonderful job of
(20:26):
finding guys and it just I mean, Branch, all the
stories I heard about him coming out, how dedicated he was,
how passionate he was, hutch you know, had his folklore
there at Michigan, you go all the way through all
those guys, they just they all love football, and he's
done a great job of finding talented guys that fit
their culture.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, you've got a background, you know, in personnel departments
and in front offices, and you kind of know when
when you've had that draft success and you've had some
history and now some some you know, bills are coming
to do. How important now is this process? How important
is this year, next year, the following year, because now
you're paying a lot of these guys. You know your
(21:02):
salary cap is going to be You've got to be
very measured with it the next few years. Just now,
how important is the draft the next couple of years
for Detroit to get some of those contributors on rookie
contracts that you can kind of supplement with some of
the big time deals you're going to have on this
roster as well.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Well.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
I think of the teams that have had the prolonged success,
you know, teams that have just been good for a
long time. And I'm a little bit biased because of
where I grew up in this business, but I just
look at the Baltimore Ravens is kind of a great
example for an organization like Detroit, where man, you draft
when you draft really well, and then you back that
up by continuing to draft. Well, it's just like this
cycle what happens. Then, Okay, we signed some guys, we
(21:42):
let some guys walk. The guys that walk, we end
up getting comp picks. So now I've got extra picks,
extra ammunition. You keep drafting well, you can then let
more players walk, more players walk, you get more compicks.
The Philadelphia Eagles have done the exact same thing. I
just realized today. I think Philadelphia has twelve picks next year.
They just won the Super Bowl and so they signed
some of their core guys. They let some guys go
(22:02):
out in free agency and got a lot of money,
and then they're gonna get extra picks. And if they
keep draft it's just like this wheel that just gets
spinning once you kind of get that roll on. And
they're Detroit's like they're they're close to getting that flywheel
really really rolling there.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Uh you mentioned Donovan Jackson some other guys there. When
when you know you've you've done the mock drafts and
you've gone through it. Now you're getting to your final ones. Here,
just who's the guy that you keep looking at at
twenty eight and you're like, man, he just kind of
fits Detroit. You know, he would be a good selection there.
Maybe if there's a couple guys that you've gone back
and forth on that that you seem just like are
(22:37):
really good fits fit Brad Holmes fit Detroit and what
they're what they do there.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Yeah, I mean that would be one of them. I'm
Donovan Jackson Gray Zabel if he were to get there,
I don't think he'll you know, get that far from
North Dakota State. Those two offensive linemen to me would
be great fits. I look on the defensive side of
the ball, you know, I always just kind of look
at the guys and even bringing in Davenport, like having
him there, like they just kind of have a type
they're and they're rugged. So you know, Shamar Stewart who
(23:03):
doesn't have the production but kind of fits that explosive, physical,
rough rugged style on the outside to me, you know,
a guy like Walter Nolan on the inside is someone
who's just really really twitched up, an explosive and who
could really move up and down the line of scrimmage
if you wanted him to. But so those are some
of the names that just kind of pop into my
head when you think about guys who kind of fit
(23:24):
the way they play.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
We've talked about the defensive line class a little bit.
Is this how far back do you have to go
to get a class that's maybe as talented and as
deep both along the interior on the edge as this
year's class. Are teams looking for defensive line palp, are
they going to be able to find it? Well into
today two?
Speaker 6 (23:43):
I think you can get into the middle of the
second round. To me, I think you kind of you
need to probably handle your business there in the first
forty five to fifty picks and then I think there's
kind of a little bit of a drop off there.
But you know, to me, I think a sweet spot
is that, you know, early second round. I think that's
that that is a nice little window there, and we'll
see guys like Nick Gordon gonna go back into one
(24:05):
or early two.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
J T.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
Tamalau from Ohio State's gonna probably go in that range.
Is a good football player, solid, you know exactly what
you're getting. Land and Jackson, who I've kind of, you know,
joked that man if Detroit were to trade back I
don't think you do it in the first round, but
if they were to trade back, that's someone who kind
of fits them out of Arkansas to the point where
if you just saw the silhouettes, not comparing this players,
(24:28):
but the silhouettes of Aiden Hutchinson and Land and Jackson,
they have almost they look identical, like just like their
body type and how they're built, and they and obviously
plays really really hard. So I think that's kind of
a sweet spot. I think that, you know, I haven't
heard this on Detroit side of things. I've talked to
other teams picking in that range, and there's teams that are,
you know, in the back of one hoping that somehow
there's quarterbacks there and and somehow somebody wants to come up,
(24:51):
because there's more than a few teams willing to get
the heck out of there.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Since you bring it up, just how crazy is one
draft year to the other when you talk about just
the quarterback position. And last year there were what six
seven guys taken in the first didn't the first defensive
guy didn go to like fifteen or sixteen something like that,
So it was really crazy. And then this year you're like,
there's a discussion is is our two guys even have
(25:16):
first round grades? It's crazy how that goes. How does
that position in particular really just change up this year's
draft versus what we saw from last year.
Speaker 6 (25:27):
I was talking to a team that picks in the
in the early portion of the twenties, and they're it's
kind of funny. They were like, look, I want all
the quarterbacks to go before we pick to push somebody down,
or I want only one of them to go so
that I'm getting calls on the clock when when we're
on there. He said, I just don't want to have
like two, like don't split the baby. I don't want
to have like two go. And then I kind of,
you know, I don't really get the benefit of that
whole thing. So quarterbacks drive movement, and movement is, to
(25:51):
be honest with you, especially on the TV side of things,
is kind of what makes it fun.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, you know, it's also fun too. There's always those
few guys that you kind of watch and you're like, boy,
it'll be really interesting where he goes. Shudor Sanders obviously
is one for me. Ashton Genty is another guy. You know,
will he go? Will the Raiders pull the trigger. Does
he get to Chicago. Being in the NFC North, you
certainly don't want to see that guy. With Ben Johnson,
the creativity and the weapons they have. There is there
(26:17):
a guy for you that you're like, boy, I really
can't wait to kind of see where he goes and
how that might change up the early part of.
Speaker 6 (26:23):
The draft one hundred percent. Like to me, those are
great examples, especially with Ashton Genty, I would say Tyler Warren.
Tyler Warren is such a fun player for me. I
would say there's a little maybe prospect fatigue with him,
like coming late into the process. I think he's just
kind of been up there the whole time and then
now it's like there's some nitpicking that's going on with him.
(26:44):
But I just think he's such a physical and I'll
use this word for the tenth time in our conversation,
He's just a rugged dude.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Man.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
I'm all about guys who kind of have that that grimy,
rugged play style, and that's what he is. And he
can use him. You can move him around, do different
things with him. He's you know, most tight ends, as
they come into the NFL these days, are very popular
in the quarterback room, not so popular in the running
back room. He's gonna be well liked in both of
those rooms because he can actually block somebody DJ.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
You can never say that word enough on a Detroit
Lions pot here you're talking about the great capital of
the world right here. So those are the guys that
that that fit here in the Midwest and certainly the
NFC North. But talking about the NFC North, what is
there a team that that jumps out maybe will be
really interested to see what they do, depending what they do,
can maybe take a jump, can compete with Detroit, can
(27:31):
challenge Detroit. Green Bay's obviously young, Chicago's young, there's some
new coaches in the division. Is there one team in
the from the NFC North You're you're kind of interested
in seeing how it shakes out.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
Well, I feel like Minnesota opened all their presents before Christmas,
so like don't.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Have any picks.
Speaker 6 (27:45):
So I don't know how much better they're gonna get
from now. I mean they were aggressive and free agency.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I don't know what.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
You know, their team is pretty much what it is.
It's pretty set right now. So in terms of the
teams that over the next week, you could see kind
of close the gap with Detroit. I mean I'm still
looking at Chicago. I mean, Green Bay is not going anywhere.
They're gonna be They're gonna be really solid, gonna be
really good. But I think in terms of the growth potential,
I still think Chicago. And look, I'm excited to see
what Ben Johnson does there. I'm excited to see, you know,
(28:11):
how he morphs that offense around Kayleb Williams, and they've
got a chance in with their draft capital coming up
to to kind of put the finishing touches on what
should be a better offense.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well, DJ, great stuff as always, I know you are
going to be a busy man this week next week.
Thank you so much for taking the time. Detroit Lions
fans love it. They'll be following you on the NFL
Network all three days in Green Bay. And thanks so
much for joining the podcast. Appreciate you as always.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
Well, I appreciate you, And look, green Bay's got a
high standard to live up to because Detroit knocked it
out of the park. So I'm looking forward to getting
out there and having another great week.
With the twenty fourth pick and the twenty twenty four
NFL Draft, the Detroit Lions select Terry and Arnold defensive
back Alabama.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And Welcome to the Twin l Huddle podcast presented by Microsoft.
It is Draft week and I'm so happy to welcome
in Brian Hudspith, the director of college scouting for the
Detroit Lions. And Brian, before we start to look forward,
because that's what your job is, right You're constantly looking
at the next class, the next prospect, everything else. But
have you given you yourself and have you guys down
(00:33):
there given yourself any time to just step back and
kind of pat yourself on the back a little bit
for the last four years. I mean, you look at
some of this class. I mean, you guys have drafted
six Pro Bowlers in an All Pro in the last
four season. It's now become the core of your football team.
I know you're always looking forward, but have.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
You had a chance to just look back at all
and recognize what you guys have accomplished over the last
four years.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Let's appreciate that compliment. It's it's nice to always, you know,
look back at the class and look back at the
players that have been selected and how much they've been
able to contribute for our team, especially immediately. Uh. So
you know, we get a lot of compliments and so
it's it's always nice to hear, uh, but you know,
it's got to got to find the next guy now.
You know, we got to just keep adding to the
pieces that we have and continue just to add talent
(01:22):
and stack good drafts on top of good drafts. And uh,
I think that we're well on our way again this
year to do in that.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You know, what is this week like for you? You know,
you're you're a week out from the actual draft day.
Is it is the board pretty much set?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Is their excitement?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Is there a little bit of anxiety? Do you feel
like your your eyes are dotted, your teaser cross? There's
not much to do here? I guess what's this final
week of preparation like?
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Well, you know, it's a little bit of both. It's
a little bit of excitement and a little bit of anxiety.
You know, you're always trying to tie up the loose
ends right now and and you know quote unquote that
hey is never really in the barn. Uh. You know,
you feel like there's always one more thing you can do.
But you know, we're close, We're close to the end
and close to the end of this cycle, and we
feel good about where we are. We feel good about
where we are with the board. So we'll just continue
(02:09):
to make sure that all the eyes are dotted and
the t'ser crossed and you know, look forward to next week.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
You know, some teams have different strategies with the thirty visits.
I know, you know the rams out there, they don't
do them. You know, some of their teams maybe don't
use all thirty. I'm just curious how valuable in your
opinion are those visits. You guys obviously talk to these
guys throughout the entire year, your scouts and your department
do they have a pretty good profile of them. You
talk to them again at the combine, have that little
fifty minute window. But how important to you guys at
(02:37):
least are those thirty pre draft visits. Getting to spend
really quality time with those guys in your building, in
your environment, and how you guys.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
Prepare well, you just answered the questions. It's invaluable time
to You can meet with them at your own pace.
You can meet with them, you know, in your own environment.
You can drill down on something, maybe something they said,
or maybe a question or two that maybe arose from
some other part of the process, whether it's a senior
bollete or the combine interview or whatever, and you get
them in your building and you kind of just put
them through the car wash again and let them meet
(03:06):
with every person and every support staff member and coach,
you know, scouts, everything and kind of go through the
process again. And so it just gives you a comfortability
with the player and allows you to really, you know,
kind of just get to know each other and just
envision them in your culture as well as them envision
being in this building.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And it's really the whole spectrum of the draft.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I mean, you guys have had top guys that are
expected to be first round guys, middle round guys, and
even how important to are is getting kind of on
the ground floor some of those guys that might be
undrafted free agents and knowing their story, knowing what they're
like before you get on that phone afterward and having
that relationship can sometimes be in the difference, can it
in a guy signing here?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
And we've seen in past years some of those guys
have made impacts on this team.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Yeah. So my background, going all the way back into
my history is I started in college recruiting, so I've
been on that side of it where the players got
to pick. You see, it's much better for us in
the you know, seven rounds of the draft to pick
the players. But you do get into that situation after
the draft, there's still maybe a couple of guys out
there that you really really want and you know, fit
our culture and fit what we do, so you're always
trying to target those guys as well. You try to
(04:13):
use those visits strategically, you know, for like you said,
for maybe guys that are going in the first round.
Maybe it's guys that you envision more as like priority
free agent guys. But we do try to use those
visits appropriately. But it's good to have to see those
to see those guys in the same light as the
first round guys. You don't get them in the building,
they go through the process, they envision being here. You
envision them being in this building, and you hope that
(04:35):
you've built a strong enough relationship that you can use
that recruiting piece.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
At the end, you've been in the NFL for twenty
four years, you've been with the Lions seventies. You spent
time in Atlanta, Houston, Tampa Bay before Detroit. I'm just curious,
what's it like working with Jim brad Holmes Because I
ask people this who have been in other places too,
and a smile comes to their face, just like a
smile just came to yours. That You've been in a
(05:00):
lot of different spots, You've seen a lot of different processes.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Maybe how how is Brad's a little bit different? What's
it like working with Brad? To me from the outside,
he seems like a guy that just kind of maybe.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Gives everybody an opinion and a voice, and that might
be a little bit different.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
That you hit the helm on the head being in
those places I've been. I've been through a lot of
general managers, unfortunately, you know I've been through when I
think Brad, maybe it was my ninth GM and the
twenty four years and all those stops. But you know,
the process with Brad and how he manages us is
everybody has a little piece of ownership of the of
the entire process, and he allows you to you know,
(05:35):
you can be creative, you can do it how you
want to do it. His Lens obviously is college scouting.
He sat in my chair before as a college scouting director.
But he allows me to do my job and allows
me to have ownership and how I want to manage
the guys and how some of the processes, And even
though it's his system, he still gives me some creativity
and some autonomy to do that. But I would say
probably the biggest difference in how we do it here
(05:56):
versus some other places I've been is the thoroughness of
the whole thing, Like the way we break it down
and kind of deconstruct it into small, little individual pieces.
And like you said, different voices in different areas of
the organization have their piece of it, whether it's the
coaches or the scouts, or the docs or you know,
our player development people. You know, everybody has their individual
(06:17):
piece of it, and you have ownership in that, and
so your voice comes through and how thorough you are
with your piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's probably not surprising to you then that it's led
to six Pro Bowl players and an All Pro When
you when you go down and let everybody have a
piece of it and you really break it down the
way you guys do, is it a unique process from
where you've been around the league.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Only unique in the sense that because it is so deconstructed.
You know, other places I've been we were thorough, but
we were thorough with everybody being involved to the very end.
I'm not, you know, we don't necessarily have everybody involved
in every single aspect of it to the very end.
But the pieces that people are responsible for, they have
ownership of those, and those things.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
They do them.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Well.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
You've been an area Scout, You've been a National Scout,
You've been an assistant director of College Scouting.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
What do you like most about this current, you know,
director of Scout College Scouting role.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
It's interesting, you know, I probably went twenty two years
of my career just managing myself, you know, managing my workflow,
managing my process, managing just my workload. And immediately when
I get the job from assistant director director now managing
twelve people across four different time zones from Seattle, Washington
to Jacksonville, Florida. So that's a challenge in it itself.
(07:33):
But I do enjoy that piece of it because I
am a people person and I enjoy I enjoy being
around people, and so just having influence on others and
making sure that our process is especially for my part
of the you know, the process in college scouting, just
making sure all those are tight and everybody's moving in
the same direction at the same time, in the same pace,
and so that that part's been really cool about it.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It seems like you're having a fun time in this
role and in this building and under this leadership.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Is like it fits you perfect.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Right, it does.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Just how much are you still on the road?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I guess, what what is your role when you get
to that director role? Now you're you're dealing with the
scouts and managing this us. Do you still like to
get on the.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Road a little bit? Do you still try to?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Can you does that scout and you still want to
see some of these guys live? I guess take me
through what's a typical week for you during the sea
during the NFL season and then maybe as soon as
it gets to the off season.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Kind of where do you transition?
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Well? During the season, obviously I live remotely. I live
in Nashville, so I don't live here in Detroit. But uh,
during the season, you know, I've had to tweak again
going back to I managed myself for a long time,
but now I'm managing others and myself, I had to
kind of tweak how I how I go about it.
I still try to get on the road at least
three days a week before if I'm lucky, but you know,
usually Mondays and Friday's are more reserved for administrative things,
(08:49):
you know, coming out of a game weekend, uh, you know,
getting prepared for the next week. Scouts have reports that
are do you weekly, so you know, obviously that work
has to be checked and just kind of I use
money in Friday's as kind of workflow days, you know,
making sure all the processes are moving correctly, and then
you know, try to get on the road Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
Try to go to some live games on the weekend
as I still can. Obviously, living in Nashville, you know,
(09:11):
Vanderbilt is right there in town, so I'm able to
see a lot of SEC teams come to come to
my city versus me having to go to some of
some of the other places. So that's been convenient convenient also,
But I still just try to go where the players are,
you know, where the where the best players are and
where you can see multiple players you know that we
have multiple grades on and you know with you know
some of the big schools, so you still try to
(09:33):
get to those as I can. I spend a lot
of time on airplane in the fall, that's for sure,
so you know, traveling coast to coast, but I try
to I try to manage my time appropriately and not
try to overextend myself. And it's funny that you asked
that question, because Brad told me from the very beginning
when I got the job, he said, I know, I said,
I know, you're going to try to go to every
every school in the country. He's like, you can't do that,
you know, just because you just physically can't get there,
(09:55):
and and so there's a lot of limitations with that.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
What's the difference in in your mind of watching a
guy live versus watching guy on tape? How much more
do you glean or enjoy watching it live versus the
cutups and everything else? You get and you can see
everything there, but do you look for things that maybe
you can't see on the tape when you're there live?
And what's maybe one or two of those things?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Absolutely, you know, there's no substitute for the live exposure.
But there's no substitute for the for the game film either.
So the best thing is to see on a live
exposure is number one, is you see a guy physically
in his pads. You know, how does he carry his pads,
what's his body type, that sort of thing. That's one
thing that you get from live exposure, whether that's at
practice or whether that's at a game, but things you
see at a game that you can't see on tape,
(10:37):
especially when you watch quarterbacks play. So I always encourage
our guys to watch quarterbacks play on the road if
you can, because you see him in other environments. You
see when things go bad. How do they interact with
their teammates on the sideline. What do they do when
they come off the sideline after an interception or make
a mistake or astall drive? You know, So just seeing
how those guys interact with their teammates, as they get
on the phone and talk to the coordinator, do they
(10:57):
throw their helmet, do they you know, what's the body whage,
what's the how do they approach pregame? So you see
a lot of that stuff too. Are they dialed in
during pregame or are they are they not dialed in
and you know, kind of lackadaisical. So it's good to
see those types of interactions and you don't get that
on film. Obviously.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
I thought this would be a great question for you
because you've been around scouting and you've been around the
college ball for so long.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
How has N I NIL changed?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And I know this is gonna be a good answer
from that response. But you know you've been in it
now enough that you know, maybe guys are in three
different programs?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Does that help because you're throwing three different schemes, are.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Guys maybe not as ready for the NFL because they're
not in one place and you know, building through a
program and stuff like that. I'm just curious how how,
in your opinion, has NIL maybe changed the scouting.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
World a little bit?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Well? Are you asking me that question because I'm a
Tennessee GA and you're asking about that. No, I'm just.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Kind of a timely question, Yes, a timely question.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Well, twofold number one. One of the questions we always
used to ask when we went through schools is you know,
how's this kid going to be when he gets money?
You know, who's going to be in his support group,
Who's gonna be in a circle, who's gonna who's he
gonna have to take care of, who's he bringing with him?
How do you think he is going to handle no
money to now millions of dollars in his pocket. Well,
that question now was answered, you know, so we kind
of now have a little bit of an insight into
(12:15):
who's in their inner circle, who helps him make financial decisions,
how do they manage money, how do they manage themselves
in these real world situations now that they were previously
not always you know, not always vetted and tested against.
Now it wasn't or it wasn't public knowledge or was
under the table anyway. So but now we just know,
you know, kind of how that how they're gonna, how
(12:35):
that's gonna manifest itself and play itself out, which that
piece has been good. The downside of nil for us
is the nio enticeons he s gets to stay in
school now, so that there's a lot less depth in
the draft because you generally, at the at the peak
of underclassmen coming out, you had about one hundred and
twenty to one hundred and thirty players. Now it's down
to fifty five to seventy, so you've lost essentially almost
(12:59):
two rounds of players in some regards. Now that's making
the assumption that they were all going to be in
the you know, top rounds. But and they generally were, though,
but you've kind of lost some depth so that the
NIOL world has changed us a little bit that way,
and so that has been one kind of downside of it,
you know. But the one thing about going back to
(13:19):
your question about like guys bouncing around, it does hurt.
It does hurt some positions. You know, you have a
quarterback who's been in three you know, three different systems
in three years. You know, you have guys that have
never solidified themselves on a depth chart, so you're constantly wondering,
you know, what what happened at the previous place. It
causes us to have to do a lot more research
and a lot more vetting of the multiple stops before,
(13:41):
and the story can always change, so you have to
find those those relationships that you really lean on. And
that's where the area scouts really are invaluable, is that
the relationships they built over time at all these different
places to where you can pick up the phone and
call the guy at the previous stop and like, Hey,
what's the real story here? Like this school's telling me this.
You guys told me that. Like we're so trying to
find the you know, middle ground somewhere of what maybe
(14:04):
the true story is about why they're all the different
the different changes.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So made your job a little harder.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yeah, right, Well, obviously we're not going to go through
your board or you know who you guys like don't
like what positions or whatever.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
But I guess maybe let's finish on this one.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
When you look at the twenty twenty five NFL draft,
what's maybe just a riding observation, what maybe how.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Would you describe this that this draft that you guys
are heading into now in a few days.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
You know, the thing that probably jumps out the most is,
you know, a lot of drafts you can kind of
peg the first five to ten picks right out right
out of the gate. You know, you know that these
are the ten guys that are going to go in
that in the top ten. I don't know that you
can say that in this draft, you know, because I
think this is going to come down to need. It's
gonna come down to a lot of guys where their
depth charts are. How whatever their draft strategy may be,
(14:53):
you know how free agency went for them. So I mean,
I think in this draft you're just going to see
you're not gonna be able to predict maybe past five.
You know, I don't even know if you could predict
the top five at this point. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So it's what it truly is. When when Brad Holmes
and his press conference last week said grab your popcorn
and just watch it, it's a grab.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Your popcorn and it enjoy it draft, isn't it is?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, I know you've been busy doing your work for
the last what year, maybe last over a year on
these guys. It all comes to a head Thursday night
in Green Bay. Thanks so much for taking the time here.
Great insight and good luck to you. Absolutely appreciate it.
Welcome back to the Twin M Huddle podcast. I am
now joined by Daniel Jeremiah.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
He is one of the best in the business for
the NFL network and analysts there and he'll be part
of that NFL coverage of the NFL drafting Green Bay
the twenty fourth to twenty six DJ.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Thanks for joining me. I appreciate it. I appreciate you.
Speaker 6 (15:49):
Can you give me like a somewhat area weather report here.
What are we looking like in the in that realm
of the country for this now?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Okay, so we're we're a little cold today where we're
we might get to fifty today, but it's gonna warm
up in the weekend. We got sixties and seventies coming in.
I heard it's gonna be pretty good in Green Bay
next week. They might get into the sixties in there,
So it should be it should be good. You're not
gonna freeze in the Midwest.
Speaker 6 (16:13):
Golf clubs by any chance. But I but I might
have to bring my overcoats. That's a win.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
I think you might be a little bit busy for that.
They keep you, They keep you pretty busy for those
three days. Well, let's get right into a dj I mean,
I guess when you look at this class overall, what
maybe jumps out to you? How would you classify this class?
What would be the big description of it?
Speaker 6 (16:35):
Yeah, for me, I've kind of used the theme of
this draft class as starters, not stars, Like we don't
necessarily have that, you know, that that sexy list of
guys up there at the top of the draft that
maybe we've had in other years, we've got a couple
of marquee players and that's Abdul Carter and Travis Hunter
and whatever order you want to put them. There's one,
you know, to me, one true you know, first round
(16:56):
quarterback in just about any draft at some point in time,
and that would be Campbell. And then after that, man,
it's just a bunch of guys that are going to
be you know, steady eddy, solid contributors, castolid contributors, and starters,
with a good group of defensive linemen kind of headlining
that class.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
You know that obviously with Detroit, you know that's one
of those those kind of needs there along the defensive line,
edge and defensive tackle. When you look at Brad Holmes,
obviously he doesn't draft for need. He takes best available,
and look what that's done over the last four years.
But when you do look at some of their needs
defensive line, interior offensive line, you know they could use,
(17:33):
you know, maybe some safety depth, some wide receiver death.
Where you mentioned the defensive line, some of those other
areas interior offensive line, maybe receiver safety, are those areas
where you're going to be able to find some guys
maybe well into Day two too.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Well, I think receiver wise. You know, I don't love
the first batch of receivers. Like the first round guys,
there's just a few of them, there's a handful. I
kind of like that second day group. I think there
is some depth there in the second and third round.
A couple kids from from Iowa State out to the
front of my mind on that list with Noel and Higgins.
But you know, that's solid interior offensive line. It's not again,
(18:08):
you've got a couple guys are gonna go in the
first round. I think we could have three. In fact,
I think Donovan Jackson would make some sense for Detroit.
I think he would be there out of Ohio State.
I don't love the you know, the middle tier interior
offensive line class though that I wouldn't necessarily say those
are strengths. But to me, like defensive tackles, yes, you
can find defensive tackles all throughout this draft. Edge rushers, yes,
(18:30):
like those are those are positions that I think you'll
be happy. You know, third, fourth round, You're gonna see
good players there.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
I'm curious just your outside opinion of Detroit and Brad
Holmes in the job that he's done over the last
four years. I mean just DJ look at the drafts
and what's become their core, Penney Sewel, Saint Brown, Ali McNeil, Hutch,
Jamior Gibbs, Kirby, Joseph Laporter, Branch. I mean, we can
continue going on and on and on and on. They
(18:57):
just seem to hit every year. And you know, now
those guys have become the core. It's changed a little
bit because now some some you know, contracts are going
to be due. You you know, when you draft, Well,
that's the consequence right now You've got to pay these guys.
It's a good problem to have. But I'm just curious,
what have you thought about Brad Holmes. What's the perspective
of him outside of just the job he's done over
(19:20):
the last four years in the draft.
Speaker 6 (19:22):
Well, you know, I'm a big fan of his and
I din't I think we met for the first time
this year was the first time that we had maybe
it's seen each other in passing, but we were at
a game and we had a chance to catch up
on the sideline for about twenty minutes. And you know,
I've always had respect for him, you know, even before
he got to Detroit, and his reputation was solid and strong,
but getting a chance to meet with him, I felt like, Okay,
(19:42):
I kind of get it now. I understand what it
is because he's such a he's such a good communicator,
and he's a listener and he's an observer. I mean,
just out at the sideline, we're talking about guys that
were looking at that were getting ready to play in
this ball game, and it kind of hit me. And
I think this is true with a lot of the
best general managers. They understand people as well as understand players.
And those names that you just rattled off, if you
(20:05):
were to kind of weave a thread between all of them,
they're all ultra competitive guys, like they're you know, they
love ball, they're all in. They fit the culture that
they've established there with coach Campbell. So to me, I
think sometimes the player evaluation is not that difficult, but
it's the personal evaluation that's that can get people in trouble.
And I think he's just done a wonderful job of
(20:26):
finding guys and it just I mean, Branch, all the
stories I heard about him coming out, how dedicated he was,
how passionate he was, hutch you know, had his folklore
there at Michigan, you go all the way through all
those guys, they just they all love football, and he's
done a great job of finding talented guys that fit
their culture.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, you've got a background, you know, in personnel departments
and in front offices, and you kind of know when
when you've had that draft success and you've had some
history and now some some you know, bills are coming
to do. How important now is this process? How important
is this year, next year, the following year, because now
you're paying a lot of these guys. You know your
(21:02):
salary cap is going to be You've got to be
very measured with it the next few years. Just now,
how important is the draft the next couple of years
for Detroit to get some of those contributors on rookie
contracts that you can kind of supplement with some of
the big time deals you're going to have on this
roster as well.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Well.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
I think of the teams that have had the prolonged success,
you know, teams that have just been good for a
long time. And I'm a little bit biased because of
where I grew up in this business, but I just
look at the Baltimore Ravens is kind of a great
example for an organization like Detroit, where man, you draft
when you draft really well, and then you back that
up by continuing to draft. Well, it's just like this
cycle what happens. Then, Okay, we signed some guys, we
(21:42):
let some guys walk. The guys that walk, we end
up getting comp picks. So now I've got extra picks,
extra ammunition. You keep drafting well, you can then let
more players walk, more players walk, you get more compicks.
The Philadelphia Eagles have done the exact same thing. I
just realized today. I think Philadelphia has twelve picks next year.
They just won the Super Bowl and so they signed
some of their core guys. They let some guys go
(22:02):
out in free agency and got a lot of money,
and then they're gonna get extra picks. And if they
keep draft it's just like this wheel that just gets
spinning once you kind of get that roll on. And
they're Detroit's like they're they're close to getting that flywheel
really really rolling there.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Uh you mentioned Donovan Jackson some other guys there. When
when you know you've you've done the mock drafts and
you've gone through it. Now you're getting to your final ones. Here,
just who's the guy that you keep looking at at
twenty eight and you're like, man, he just kind of
fits Detroit. You know, he would be a good selection there.
Maybe if there's a couple guys that you've gone back
and forth on that that you seem just like are
(22:37):
really good fits fit Brad Holmes fit Detroit and what
they're what they do there.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
Yeah, I mean that would be one of them. I'm
Donovan Jackson Gray Zabel if he were to get there,
I don't think he'll you know, get that far from
North Dakota State. Those two offensive linemen to me would
be great fits. I look on the defensive side of
the ball, you know, I always just kind of look
at the guys and even bringing in Davenport, like having
him there, like they just kind of have a type
they're and they're rugged. So you know, Shamar Stewart who
(23:03):
doesn't have the production but kind of fits that explosive, physical,
rough rugged style on the outside to me, you know,
a guy like Walter Nolan on the inside is someone
who's just really really twitched up, an explosive and who
could really move up and down the line of scrimmage
if you wanted him to. But so those are some
of the names that just kind of pop into my
head when you think about guys who kind of fit
(23:24):
the way they play.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
We've talked about the defensive line class a little bit.
Is this how far back do you have to go
to get a class that's maybe as talented and as
deep both along the interior on the edge as this
year's class. Are teams looking for defensive line palp, are
they going to be able to find it? Well into
today two?
Speaker 6 (23:43):
I think you can get into the middle of the
second round. To me, I think you kind of you
need to probably handle your business there in the first
forty five to fifty picks and then I think there's
kind of a little bit of a drop off there.
But you know, to me, I think a sweet spot
is that, you know, early second round. I think that's
that that is a nice little window there, and we'll
see guys like Nick Gordon gonna go back into one
(24:05):
or early two.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
J T.
Speaker 6 (24:07):
Tamalau from Ohio State's gonna probably go in that range.
Is a good football player, solid, you know exactly what
you're getting. Land and Jackson, who I've kind of, you know,
joked that man if Detroit were to trade back I
don't think you do it in the first round, but
if they were to trade back, that's someone who kind
of fits them out of Arkansas to the point where
if you just saw the silhouettes, not comparing this players,
(24:28):
but the silhouettes of Aiden Hutchinson and Land and Jackson,
they have almost they look identical, like just like their
body type and how they're built, and they and obviously
plays really really hard. So I think that's kind of
a sweet spot. I think that, you know, I haven't
heard this on Detroit side of things. I've talked to
other teams picking in that range, and there's teams that are,
you know, in the back of one hoping that somehow
there's quarterbacks there and and somehow somebody wants to come up,
(24:51):
because there's more than a few teams willing to get
the heck out of there.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Since you bring it up, just how crazy is one
draft year to the other when you talk about just
the quarterback position. And last year there were what six
seven guys taken in the first didn't the first defensive
guy didn go to like fifteen or sixteen something like that,
So it was really crazy. And then this year you're like,
there's a discussion is is our two guys even have
(25:16):
first round grades? It's crazy how that goes. How does
that position in particular really just change up this year's
draft versus what we saw from last year.
Speaker 6 (25:27):
I was talking to a team that picks in the
in the early portion of the twenties, and they're it's
kind of funny. They were like, look, I want all
the quarterbacks to go before we pick to push somebody down,
or I want only one of them to go so
that I'm getting calls on the clock when when we're
on there. He said, I just don't want to have
like two, like don't split the baby. I don't want
to have like two go. And then I kind of,
you know, I don't really get the benefit of that
whole thing. So quarterbacks drive movement, and movement is, to
(25:51):
be honest with you, especially on the TV side of things,
is kind of what makes it fun.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, you know, it's also fun too. There's always those
few guys that you kind of watch and you're like, boy,
it'll be really interesting where he goes. Shudor Sanders obviously
is one for me. Ashton Genty is another guy. You know,
will he go? Will the Raiders pull the trigger. Does
he get to Chicago. Being in the NFC North, you
certainly don't want to see that guy. With Ben Johnson,
the creativity and the weapons they have. There is there
(26:17):
a guy for you that you're like, boy, I really
can't wait to kind of see where he goes and
how that might change up the early part of.
Speaker 6 (26:23):
The draft one hundred percent. Like to me, those are
great examples, especially with Ashton Genty, I would say Tyler Warren.
Tyler Warren is such a fun player for me. I
would say there's a little maybe prospect fatigue with him,
like coming late into the process. I think he's just
kind of been up there the whole time and then
now it's like there's some nitpicking that's going on with him.
(26:44):
But I just think he's such a physical and I'll
use this word for the tenth time in our conversation,
He's just a rugged dude.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Man.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
I'm all about guys who kind of have that that grimy,
rugged play style, and that's what he is. And he
can use him. You can move him around, do different
things with him. He's you know, most tight ends, as
they come into the NFL these days, are very popular
in the quarterback room, not so popular in the running
back room. He's gonna be well liked in both of
those rooms because he can actually block somebody DJ.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
You can never say that word enough on a Detroit
Lions pot here you're talking about the great capital of
the world right here. So those are the guys that
that that fit here in the Midwest and certainly the
NFC North. But talking about the NFC North, what is
there a team that that jumps out maybe will be
really interested to see what they do, depending what they do,
can maybe take a jump, can compete with Detroit, can
(27:31):
challenge Detroit. Green Bay's obviously young, Chicago's young, there's some
new coaches in the division. Is there one team in
the from the NFC North You're you're kind of interested
in seeing how it shakes out.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
Well, I feel like Minnesota opened all their presents before Christmas,
so like don't.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Have any picks.
Speaker 6 (27:45):
So I don't know how much better they're gonna get
from now. I mean they were aggressive and free agency.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
I don't know what.
Speaker 6 (27:49):
You know, their team is pretty much what it is.
It's pretty set right now. So in terms of the
teams that over the next week, you could see kind
of close the gap with Detroit. I mean I'm still
looking at Chicago. I mean, Green Bay is not going anywhere.
They're gonna be They're gonna be really solid, gonna be
really good. But I think in terms of the growth potential,
I still think Chicago. And look, I'm excited to see
what Ben Johnson does there. I'm excited to see, you know,
(28:11):
how he morphs that offense around Kayleb Williams, and they've
got a chance in with their draft capital coming up
to to kind of put the finishing touches on what
should be a better offense.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well, DJ, great stuff as always, I know you are
going to be a busy man this week next week.
Thank you so much for taking the time. Detroit Lions
fans love it. They'll be following you on the NFL
Network all three days in Green Bay. And thanks so
much for joining the podcast. Appreciate you as always.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
Well, I appreciate you, And look, green Bay's got a
high standard to live up to because Detroit knocked it
out of the park. So I'm looking forward to getting
out there and having another great week.
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