This episode features an inspiring conversation about women in the wine industry, sharing personal stories and experiences from the guests as they navigate a male-dominated field. The panel discusses challenges such as gender bias, pay discrepancies, and the importance of mentorship while emphasizing the growth and empowerment of women in wine.
• Personal journeys of the panelists into the wine industry
• Discussion on gender bias and pay disparities in wine professions
• Emphasis on the importance of mentorship and community
• Calls to action for younger generations to join the wine industry
• Insights on the evolving landscape for women in wine
Don't forget you can tip your "servers" here to keep the show going: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2388325/support
____________________________________________________________________
The latest episode takes listeners on a journey into the world of wine, focusing on the remarkable women breaking barriers and leading with passion and resilience.
In this episode, Liana Biscotti, Kiera Hill, Bethany Morris, and KC share their unique experiences and paths in an industry where women have historically been underrepresented.
As we dive into their stories, we learn about the serendipitous paths that led these women into the wine industry. From volunteering at culinary festivals to managing fine dining establishments, their journeys reveal how passion and perseverance can unlock new opportunities.
The podcast sheds light on the evolving landscape of the wine industry, particularly in terms of gender equity. Our guests candidly discuss the challenges they have faced, from navigating gender bias to overcoming societal expectations. The conversation highlights the significant progress made in recent years, aided by cultural shifts and media representations, such as the "Somm" documentary, which brought increased visibility and interest to the profession. Despite the progress, challenges remain, and the importance of a supportive community is emphasized as essential for continued growth.
The episode also explores the dynamic world of wine and culinary collaboration, highlighting the synergy between chefs and sommeliers. The thrill of creating unique dining experiences by pairing food and wine is a testament to the creativity and passion that drives these women. Their stories of experimentation with flavors and the satisfaction of seeing diners' reactions reveal the artistry involved in this profession. Empowering young women to enter the field and pursue their passions with purpose is a key takeaway, emphasizing the need for continued support and recognition.
As we conclude the episode, the importance of community and accessibility in the wine industry is highlighted. The path to becoming a sommelier often involves self-study and real-world experience, underscoring the
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are rolling, kristen, we are rolling, we are
here.
Here we are Cheers.
So listen to this Five secondsof just glory here.
I'm going to say this right now, right away we are surrounded,
I'm surrounded, I'm surroundedby freaking, powerful women
right now.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, you love it I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm surrounded, so this is the deal here we have
Leanna Biscotti from Glass Light, cara Cara Hill correct from
Vino Culture, your shop.
Bethany Morris, here from LuceSecundo wine director Legend the
myth.
It's not a myth, actually,she's right here, she's here,
she's going home, that's okay.
And then, of course, we haveCasey in the place to be, and
(00:38):
little old me, I know, tony,you're just surrounded by women
today.
That's it right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
We thought it would be powerful because when we
talked about this show, wewanted to have diversity and we
wanted to have a couple episodeswhere it was really all women
in this business, who don'trepresent the majority in a lot
of these positions.
So this is our first all-femalepanel, right?
Well, aside from him, it is.
I mean panel.
You are the panel.
He's just a fixture here now.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That's right.
He just has to be here.
I just talk.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
He's grandfathered in , he's stuck with us, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Bethany, what did you pour?
First of all, let's get to this.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Oh yeah, breakfast wine actually Breakfast.
Okay, most psalms like to starttheir day with bubbles if
they're not working.
So this is actually Cata Bosco.
It actually an Italiansparkling wine made in the same
way as champagne, and it'sphenomenal, it's beautiful, it's
a phenomenal start to the day.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It's going to be a good conversation.
So what a lot of people don'trealize and what I'm so thrilled
about all the time is that Iwas actually able I'm lucky
enough to be able to summon upthree of what I consider with
all my looks and studies andresearch, because I'm in the
industry.
Obviously, I'm alwaysresearching my industry at all
(01:50):
levels, whether it be wine, food, uh, booze drinks, whiskey,
whatever, whatever the subjectmay be, and I have three.
I have the pleasure of havingthree of the most valuable
assets to the wine community invirginia yes, and and I think
that anybody who doesn'tunderstand that or doesn't
understand the wine um qualityhere in Virginia, they just
don't get it.
They don't get it Because thefirst thing that comes with
learning about wines firstly, ofcourse, obviously is a palate
(02:11):
and the understanding of wineand the passion to go do it.
That's the easy part, right,that's the baseline.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
No.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
No, it's not easy.
What gets harder, though whatgets harder is the maintenance
yes.
What gets harder, though.
What gets harder is themaintenance yes, maintaining
that, maintaining that striving.
While you guys all came up anddid the thing and went and got
to where you are, there's also ahuge wave of people behind you.
We call that competition right.
(02:37):
So it happens in the chef worldas well, where we work, we
study, we play, and then we getto where we are.
You have a choice You're eithergoing to be comfortable where
you are or you're going tocontinue to fucking move forward
right and set the standard.
So doing that as a woman intoday's industry with the wine
is tell me about it.
Tell me, bethany, how you feelabout it.
Where do you stand on thiswhole thing?
(02:59):
Just give me a littlebackground to where you came
from.
How did you get to where youare?
Where are you sitting now?
And then we'll move on, and I'mjust really interested in
hearing this, and I thinkeverybody else is.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, so I've been a sommelier.
I passed my first exam in 2012.
It was an accident.
Actually.
Never thought I was going toend up being a sommelier.
I was actually an assistantmanager of a fine dining jazz
club.
(03:27):
It was in Virginia Beach andthere was a girl who actually
was running the wine program atthe time.
She was like a military bratand she had been traveling.
Her parents were high up in themilitary.
She actually went to a lot ofbanquets and drank a lot of wine
.
She was very young and she'svery talented, but she didn't
show up for work.
One day she was supposed totake this first level psalm exam
(03:48):
and there was no one to take it.
So the owner was like bethany,you should do it.
I was like I I have not studiedfor this at all like I'm running
people, not wine.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So, uh, he's like it's fine, at least you can get
the experience somebody gets sothe test, the test was that day
and she didn't show it was thenext week.
Oh, the next week, okay, so youhad.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
So I had a week to study.
I had grown up in the industry,like I've been in restaurants
since I was 17 and so I've beenaround wine, um, but I hadn't
really like studied it as acareer.
I was used to waiting tablesand running the floor.
So coming into, likespecifically, wine, it was like
(04:33):
what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So the best part about that now that you're
saying that, for anybody who'sbeen here or who's even been
here the best thing aboutBethany when you're working is
you are geared on wine.
That's obviously the deal, butyou always revert back too and
you can't stop it.
There's no wine to be served.
She's running like a waitstaffor a SA or a manager or a host
(04:55):
or hostess.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I can't sit still.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You can't sit still but that shows that's where you
came from.
It's obviously ingrained in youto continue to do that, so I
didn't mean to interrupt.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Go ahead.
No, you're fine.
And then I actually got thebook.
I studied as best I cram,studied.
I was up all night some nightsand then I was like, all right,
how hard could this be?
And then we get into the firsttwo days.
There's two days of lectureswhen you're taking the
introductory and then they giveyou a test there.
No tasting aspect to it,there's just a written exam.
And I was like, all right, theytold me that this was going to
be on the test, filled it out,lo and behold, it passed and I
(05:32):
was like, whoa, okay, this iscool.
And there was this.
Everybody was drinkingchampagne at the end and they
all call your name.
And then the people areembarrassed if they don't call
your name and it's just thiswhole weird ordeal.
But you actually get to likemeet a lot of people in the
industry or people who arepassionate about wine and I
think at that celebratory momentwe actually went to Eurasia
(05:56):
afterwards and drank a ton ofwine and in celebration and um,
after that I was like this is areally cool experience.
I got kind of hooked oneverybody getting excited about
it and the passion for it and Iwas like that's the direction I
want to go and then it justfueled you.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Now you have the fuel and now I was like this sounds
way better than you know doingdishes A little bit yeah, so 12
years later.
It's a little strategic in someway.
So, with all that being said,you went on, you carried on, you
did the level two, you keptgoing, and now, here you are,
directing this program, which isamazing.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And just got a Wine Spectator Award.
This is your second one outsideof here, is that right?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
It is my third.
Third.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So it's your third one.
So you definitely have theexperience and obviously your
passion for it shows and it'swithout a question.
So we'll get more to that in aminute, but let's hear what your
story is.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Kira, go for it.
Well, I got into wine at theearly age of 18, maybe 19, 19.
I went to college at FloridaInternational University and
it's number six school in theworld, or at least was at the
time for hospitality.
I was not studying that, butall my friends were, and so I
got to volunteer at South BeachFood and Wine Festival and
Gastora Fest and work all theseevents and my friends were
(07:06):
studying to become chefs andrestaurateurs and hoteliers, and
so on the weekends, instead ofgoing to frat parties, we would
go to someone's house and do afive-course food and wine
pairing dinner just to practice,you had classy, classy underage
drinking.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Good, okay, wow, we did it very differently Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Boone's Farm was that wine?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, differently, wow, was that wine?
Yeah, no, boone's farm, thatwasn't our generation.
Sorry, we're older.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Okay, it's fine, it was our wine.
Yep, so yeah, I um, I got intoreally interesting wines from
all around the world, um, andinteresting foods from all
around the world.
My friends were from anywherefrom ghana to switzerland to
curacao, trinidad and Tobago,latin America, china.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Russia, everywhere.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
And so I was definitely in the minority, and
so I got to experience food fromall over the world and it
really expanded my palate.
And so at the time I wasworking fine dining as well and
I learned, oh, I can make a lotmore money if I know how to
recommend wines and talk aboutwines more.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Say that louder for the people in the back please,
those people in the back whodon't realize that.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yes, if you don't just take orders, if you know
how to recommend wines andcreate that experience, it does
make you a lot more money as aserver at the time.
And then I moved up to DC whenI had just turned 21.
And so I got a job as a cashierat a wine store total wine so.
But I was still askingquestions like what really is
the difference between you knowBordeaux and Brunello?
(08:35):
You know very different things,and so I hadn't really started
studying anything.
It was really just allenjoyment at that time and I
fell in love with wine and thenthat helped me get on the sales
team.
So they quickly realized I waspassionate about wine, even if I
didn't know anything reallyabout it, and so they had me
recommending wines on thetasting tables and on the floors
and I just turned 21.
And then I'm starting to hostthese wine tasting events and
(08:58):
classes.
I still don't know anythingabout it.
Meanwhile I'm getting my degreein economic development of
Latin America so this was not mycareer choice at all and end up
finishing the degree, theyoffered me a management position
at the time of their number onewine store in the US and ran
their whole education program,traveled to multiple different
(09:18):
states training incomingmanagers about wine.
At this point, like I know mystuff, I studied a lot and
really fell in love with wineeducation, but still it was just
a job to pay my pay off, mystudent loans, until I get my
real job in my real industry,what I paid a lot of money for
my career and my uh, my degreeand turns out I didn't want to
step behind a desk and doresearch and um.
(09:38):
So I ended up giving that allup and I was like I really just
love this whole wine thing andeducation and working in
restaurants and the hospitalityindustry and creating those aha
moments for people.
And so I was in Guatemala atthe time and two weeks in, I'm
like I don't want to do this atall.
I want to do this one thing.
So I came back early and signedup to take my Somali exam.
(10:00):
I took level one and level twoback to back in the same weekend
and, yeah, six months laterpassed the test, something I
didn't know I was eveninterested in, and the rest is
kind of history.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Crushing it, crushing it.
That's a great story, man, whatyou got Very different.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I just learned so much about you.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I actually, you know, I never really thought that
wine was going to be my careereither.
I don't think that anybody justkind of I think very few people
set out and they're like wineis what I'm doing.
I was restaurant my whole life.
I've never done anything else.
I started working inrestaurants when I was 15.
I've worked in sports bars andtequila bars and beer bars and
(10:41):
I've done pretty much everything.
And when I and I've always kindof been around wine, I've
always liked it.
I went to university of SouthCarolina and studied Spanish and
Latin American studies, cause Iwanted to learn about culture,
like I wanted to learn aboutdifferent cultures.
And for me, when I found wine,I was like, oh, that's a such a
cool way to learn about culture,cause it's not just wine that
(11:03):
you're learning about.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You're learning about geology, climate, food.
You're learning about so muchwhen you say that because when I
was studying for my level onething, I was so intrigued by
things I was learning outside ofthe wine right I'm learning
about little sayings in life,like a man is worth his salt and
where those expressions camefrom from the roman colonies
paying people with salt via thewine trade.
There were so many things I'velearned from it.
You know there was so manylittle, like you said, tidbits
(11:32):
of stuff that you're learningthat doesn't really even pertain
to wine but it was things youknew all your life, but it
somehow does.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I didn't know it came from wine.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Exactly.
And so when I started at BurtonBaldwin in 2018, I think
somewhere around there and themanager at the time was like,
leanna, why don't you have yoursommelier?
Like, why don't you have thisyet?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
And I was like I don't know, I just don't have it
.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And he's like well, you should go for it just try it
, and that was a good restaurantto get that.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Really great because I mean Burden Baldwin beautiful
restaurant really high exposureto very high quality, very high
end wine.
So you get to see those firstgrowth Bordeaux's, you get to
see those like aging moments andreally have access to a lot of
wine that a lot of people don'thave access to.
So I was really really lucky inthat particular situation but I
(12:21):
got my level one and then twomonths later I got my level one
and then two months later I gotmy level two and waited a few
years and then finally I waslike you know what, I'm just
gonna try WSET and see what itis and see how I like it.
And WSET three took me like twomonths and I hopefully I'm
gonna do my French wine scholarnext.
But it's just always.
There's just so much to learnand I'm somebody who, if you're
(12:45):
not learning, you're not growingand, like you were saying
earlier, you get stagnant andyou start losing it and you
start losing that passion and so, being surrounded by wine,
which is so ever-changing,you're constantly growing
because you're constantlygrowing and surrounded by wine
drinkers and wine, you knowveyers and wine enthusiasts.
And you can learn from everybodythat you meet and even if they,
(13:07):
you know, might not have thecertifications that you do like,
you can learn from anybodyBecause you know, my old boss
lived in Champaign.
He grew up in Champaign.
Of course I'm going to learnsomething from him.
I grew up in Chesapeake,chesapeake.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
There you go.
Definitely not the same.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, you know the funny thing is there's so much
about wine to know like you guysyou understand, and you just
said it there's so much to learnabout it that it's almost
discouraging sometimes forsomeone like me.
I went and got my level onejust to have it.
Here I am with my little pin onfeeling cool, right, but
there's so much to learn thatit's it's almost intimidating to
the point where, if it's notyour chosen profession, you
(13:43):
almost lose focus on it becauseit's such.
It's like looking over thehorizon saying the earth is
round or it's flat, you don'treally know.
It is so much out there and andthat's that's the part of wine
that is so impressive to me andpeople who study it, gain from
it and grow like you guys do isjust crazy to me.
It's, it's amazing what?
What do you guys think about?
(14:04):
As far as, like um we weretalking about a minute ago, and
everybody's path is differentbut kind of the same, it all
comes around diversity comesaround your passion for it comes
how you were introduced to it.
So something was said earliertoo about how it's not really.
It's not a profession you goafter, right Me myself.
I never thought I'd be into wine.
(14:25):
I fell into wine, quite bymistake as well.
No-transcript deep.
(14:56):
I went there about three, threeyears, maybe something like
that.
Then, of course, I got back inthe kitchen because I was, at
the time, way too young for thattype of responsibility, way too
young for those numbers, waytoo young to understand what it
meant to restauranteurs who arecounting on me.
I'd rather be surfing thanputting in my numbers before
noon.
You know what I mean.
So there was a lot of problemsI had with it, understanding it,
and now that I'm older, lookingback, I realize the importance
(15:19):
of this.
I mean the importance of a goodwine rep or a good salesperson
or purveyor or a or a psalm in arestaurant.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
It's fucking huge yeah, shout out to all the wine
reps that help us out, becausethey are the unsung heroes that
keep us straight sometimes.
Yeah yeah, no, and they're someof the most knowledgeable
people in the industry as wellyeah this is what they do every
day just alongside us.
They don't have a pin, but someof them do.
But they're incredible peopleto work with or they can break
(15:48):
you as a sum and you're like myevent was counting on you.
Yeah true, where did thedelivery go?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, or why is this not my delivery?
Yeah right, yep, no doubt.
So what do you feel, bethany,about the is there?
I know there is, but what'swith the being a woman in this
industry is is are youcomfortable?
Is it a comfortable place?
Has the wine world acceptedwomen to your guys's level of
(16:16):
knowledge in it, or do you feelthat there's still a struggle
with that as far as having towork through that, push through
that envelope or break throughthat glass?
If you will, you know what Imean.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
or yeah, this is a really complicated subject for
us.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I think it's.
It's a great one, though it's agreat subject to talk about.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Um, I I feel honored to be on the panel for it,
because we've lived and breathedthis, I think, every day since
we chose wine, or wine chose us,as the story goes um.
But I would say, being a femalein the industry, we've we are
very blessed in our generation alittle bit.
There has been a lot moreacceptance and growth for women
in wine.
There's forums, there'sorganizations.
(16:53):
Now there is a lot moreplatform for women in wine.
I think that's happened in thelast 10 years specifically in
our field, but it's always beena conversation around a boys
club being a song.
It's definitely been more of aman's world, even as a wine rep,
(17:14):
and I would say there was a bigshift of that right around
COVID, when there was there wasactually an article that came
out in New York Times about it.
There was a little bit ofcontroversy and scandal that
came out in New York Times aboutit.
There was a little bit ofcontroversy and scandal that
came out um, but there was alsokind of this realization of like
(17:35):
, okay, these women are actuallysome of the most educated
because you have to like, betough, put yourself out there,
take a lot of criticism, oh, youdon't know anything.
How could you like and ifyou're, I've got it a lot myself
of like, oh, that's really cute, they let you do that and it's
like sorry triggered much Ithink it's really interesting
(18:00):
because is that?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
more the men saying that to you, you feel, or women
say it too I think it's peopleat a table.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
There's more of and I would say it comes from more of
a lack of knowledge of what wedo combined with what they've
seen in the media, so it can bejust misinformation a lot of
times.
We usually try to hospitablyskip over it and get back to the
subject of wine a lot of timesor I do specifically myself but
(18:28):
I would say that there is thiskind of there is a little
mystery to what we do as acareer.
But there's also a bigdocumentary that came out in 13
called Psalm, which kind of puta platform for what Psalms do as
a career out.
And it was all men in thismovie and it was like oh my gosh
(18:50):
.
And there was this huge jump tosommiers being in the limelight
and everybody started wantingto go pass an exam.
There were people from djs topeople from like anywhere not
related to restaurants.
People were jumping in on thissommier train jumping the trend
right yeah, and wine is alwaysabout trends honestly comes and
(19:10):
goes um, but I think there wasjust this like huge influx of
sommeliers and the court endedup moving towards the situation
of like okay, we really want tofocus on the people and change
the exam forum to focus onpeople who are actually studying
wine and also towards theformat of people who are in
(19:31):
restaurants.
I think that was more of apillar they took.
Cms took more of this approachto it's geared towards people
who are actually runningprograms and more of the exams
came about that.
And I would say there was thisbig flip and influx of psalms
(19:52):
into the market there.
Every restaurant had a psalm atone point, whether they were a
hipster psalm or the verypolished.
Everyone had to have like thislike media presence of who they
were as a psalm and I think thatsounds like a chef world.
Yeah, it was like food, it justkind of blew up and it bubbled.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Put on a leather apron and all of a sudden you've
got five Michelin stars.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, and there was a big conversation about with
closer to COVID and this is akind of a touchy subject with, I
would say, the article thatcame out.
It's like there was this wholebig New York Times article that
came out on the upper echelon ofthe mega songs.
I like to call them, or likethe big, like old guard of
(20:34):
sommeliers who, um, were kind ofusing their platform to to, uh,
take advantage, take advantageof people and, let's be honest,
that was most that was men yeah,it was all, men it was all men,
so so the old guard is the men.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
That's what we're talking about.
Is the women coming up underunderneath them?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
and there was this article that was put out saying
that females were, like, veryexcited, and it's not even
pertaining to one sex.
It's like you want to be aroundthese master psalms because
once you get up into highercredentials, you have to be
mentored by one.
You need to have somebody inyour corner to pass an exam.
That's like 6% passing rate,and so you're trying to.
(21:15):
When you have a bunch of theseSOMs that now flooded the market
in every town, they're making ahuge amount of money off of
these.
Exams are not cheap by anymeans, I mean, and they're all
self-paid and all of our For areason.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, we've had a chance of doing it again.
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
And there was this like everybody wanted to get a
credential.
It gave them like some sort ofplatform now, and I think there
was this like huge push from alot of people to get in tasting
groups.
So there's always good and badthat comes out of situations
like this.
But at the end of the day,there was a lot of females who
(21:53):
came out and spoke about thefact that they were excited to
go and meet these master psalms.
They were excited to be undersome sort of mentorship, and
then it was flipped to wherethey felt like they were
powerless unless they were beingtaken advantage of in some
regard.
Now that's how the article cameout.
This is what I read.
(22:14):
This is, uh, some personalexperience.
I've gone through with some ofthe people mentioned, um, but I
don't.
I don't think that I've everbeen somebody.
I think it goes back for mewhere they always said don't
sleep with somebody you workwith in a restaurant.
This is like real restauranttalk right here.
It's like don't sleep withsomebody you you work with, and
(22:36):
so it's like I've always beenthe kind of the person of like I
want to keep that outside of,out of work, and so I've never
gotten like the only people Ithink I would get celebrity star
shock over was, like particularwinemakers, that I find their
product to be incredible, butother than that, it's just
people at the end of the daythat we're working with, and
they were somewhere in myjourney along the way and maybe
(22:58):
I just kept trailing on, so I'mgoing to say you know?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
you never bit, you never bit the, you never took
the bait.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
You never dipped your pen.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yes, what Dipped your pen in a Cody ink.
What about you on the retaillevel?
So you're in the store, you'redoing your thing, which is
awesome, well-known.
Everybody knows that downtown.
Do you feel the same thing whenyou get a lot of male customers
coming in to rely on you?
Talk about that.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
Yeah, I think that my first experience in the retail
world getting discriminatedbased on my sex was a co-worker
who we we became friends later,but this very old French man and
um.
So at one point I'm likestocking wine and I broke.
Um, I broke something and itshattered all over the place and
I'm cleaning up and he comes upto me and he puts his hand on
(23:40):
his apron and was like what areyou doing?
And I was like I'm cleaning upapparently I'm not very good at
this whole wine thing, but I'mgood at cleaning and he goes
maybe you should stick with whatyou know best.
And I was just like this verymuch, like oh, okay, okay, yikes
, and you know we'd makecomments regularly about like
well, what do you know?
You're a woman and you know, soI like really like that was the
(24:02):
first time being so, like,blatantly obvious.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And what year was this?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Oh, this was.
I mean this was close to 18, 19years ago, so this is a long
time ago.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Well, at least there's that excuse.
It was still maybe a littlelonger.
Maybe it was a tail end of that.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Yeah, this was way before Me Too, or anything like
this.
This is not a time of the yearwhere you can like or a time of
the season that you could go andmake a complaint about
something like this, so you justsuck it up and grin and bear it
and like work harder and workharder, and that's.
I think our superpower is.
Um, if we grew up in theindustry before me too, you did
learn to grind.
You just learned to work harder,hustle more and prove everyone
(24:43):
and became the superpower.
I think so, um, you know, andwe, and we got that benefit from
the people who came before us,so it gets passed down.
So I think, when I was youngerand I was, you know, 24 managing
a wine store and every singleemployee was, um, older than me,
and the customers would come inand they'd be like, uh, can I,
(25:03):
can I speak to the manager?
I'm like that's me.
Well, what about that guy overthere?
And even, you know, point tothe guy with the white hair and
the apron and stuff like this.
It was like yeah, yeah, I justtired him.
Yeah, I'm training him rightnow, so you know it's.
It took a while for me to gettaken seriously.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Is that a woman thing or is that an age thing?
Both yeah, yeah, and I thinkyeah yeah, and now.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
I am well beyond my 20s, so I don't think people say
those things as much anymore.
Yeah, and now it's.
I think there's a lot morecuriosity.
The movie yeah Psalm that cameout really struck a lot of
people by surprise about howmuch work goes into this.
It's not just drinking all dayalthough you know cheers to
(25:44):
being able to do that sometimes,but it's so much work involved
and so much study and so I thinkpeople take Psalms more
seriously now and, yeah, a lotof interest into it and so and I
think, post Me Too movementthere's just a lot more
recognition for what's notacceptable and how much women
have had to work harder to getahead and to prove themselves,
(26:08):
both to themselves like I do ona daily basis, and other people
around, and I think the nextgeneration they're not going to
lead.
Every article with female psalmdoes XYZ.
That still says something todayand I am hoping that the next
generation that will sound asweird as today an article saying
male psalm does X, y, z.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
That sounds weird, right.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
I think the next generation is definitely like
gender fluidity nothing reallymatters, and so I don't think
we're going to have articlesthat start with the term female,
SOM or female chef, Alsobecause you got to remember one
thing Not only is it that, butthe people who are writing these
articles are also diversified.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So that's the other thing too.
So that's in everybody's corneras well.
That's a good point, leanne.
What do you think?
Sorry, what do you think aboutthat?
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Well, no, I agree, I think some.
I remember watching it thefirst time and being like, oh,
that looks really hard.
And you know, I was part of theway through my journey, but not
not really that far in, and I'msomebody that if you tell me I
can't do something, then I'mgonna do it, just to prove you
wrong.
And I remember this one personand this was another woman which
(27:20):
you know sucks even morehonestly, like it's kind of
shitty.
When was another woman whichyou know it sucks even more
honestly, like it's it's kind ofshitty when, like, another
woman is like coming coming downon you because you're like,
okay, well, we're supposed to beplaying for the same team, but
that's cool.
She told me one time.
She said you're never going tomake it in the industry if you.
Uh, because I was, I was acigarette smoker at the time.
I've been off cigarettes forlike 10 years now, which is
great, but at the time I was acigarette smoker and I passed my
(27:43):
level one and two with asmoker's palette Wow.
And she said to me you're nevergoing to make it in the swine
industry.
And I said, okay.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
She told you you're never going to make it in the
cigarette world.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah Well, let me call my friend Marlboro.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
There are so many, so many Psalms.
Who still smoke?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Exactly, exactly, and it's just really wild to see
how much goes into it and howmuch that we have all
individually put into it.
When I was studying for mylevel two, I lived in my own
apartment.
I had wine maps from Wine Follyon every bit of wall in my
living room and I would pull mycouch off of the wall and I
(28:23):
would look at the wall while Iwas studying wine.
And that is how.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I like to like the like the in the movies with the
serial killers with a string inthe room.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
It was a little bit Charlie Day.
Yes, it was very much.
It's always sunny inPhiladelphia.
You know I got um, but you knowyou get, you get people talking
down to you all the time andboth, both men and women.
You get, uh, older people,younger people and they're like,
uh, I remember months ago nowbut people will be like, oh,
(28:54):
you're the psalm.
Yeah, yes, question mark are we?
Are we only speaking inquestions right now?
Because I can do that too andyou know I have six brothers, so
I'm I'm pretty tough when itcomes down to it and, like I
said, I started in sports barsso you're also in the bar
business.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
You aren't in restaurants, you are in bars
total difference when it comesto clientele and what you have
to do.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh yeah, I'm ready for it now you guys are.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
You guys are talking about your, your growth and how
you came up this and it'samazing, it's great and
everybody listening to it isjust probably wanting to hear
more.
So they're going to track thatdown right, but what I see is a
group of people, includingyourself, Casey, that we have
all came up kind of in the sametime frame a little bit.
We all kind of grew in the sametype of area, right.
So I'm looking at it I think Iwas telling you this earlier,
(29:38):
but I'm looking at it like youladies are like the ghost of
Christmas, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
He has this analogy for the three of you, so I can't
wait for you to hear this.
Are you ready?
This is great right.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So you guys are like the ghost of the what's the
freaking show, christmas Carolright Christmas Carol, charles
Dickens.
Charles Dickens, we have theghost of the past, oh, god of
the past, because Leanna knowsme from the past.
She knows my craziness.
You've seen me at my craziest.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Oh, you've seen me at my craziest.
Yes, it's fucking amazing.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And we had some.
I mean, we're talking aboutstreet level shit, she's seen me
at my craziest right.
So she's the ghost of Christmaspast right.
She sees me at my mostpassionate, probably most growth
in my most assholest, assholestright.
So I have my driven andambitious, but she also sees me
(30:30):
in my good too, and I've knownyou since when you first started
at the at the main right before.
I think you were still in thewine shop when I met you yeah at
the time in chesapeake, so youcame up from there.
So you in, in, in watching yougrow and then growing with me
here, which has been excitingand amazing.
That's just so fucking cool.
(30:50):
So you're like the ghost of theChristmas present.
You're right here, you're rightnow.
You got it, and me and her goback a ways when you were back
at Press and I knew you fromthen, but yet we've never had
that actual connection.
And I knew you from then, butyet we've never had that actual
connection.
So I'd love to see what you'redoing, because now you're
working with some of myemployees or people or team
downtown.
Peter goes there for the winetasting, so does Chris, I
(31:11):
believe, stops in, and some ofmy people from here Don't?
Some of our guys go there forthe blinds they have yeah, I've
been to her shop too.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
You do too.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And we went there for a tasting.
So I plan on seeing you a lotmore in the future now because
of this just a relationship, soyou're like the ghost of the
future, right?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So I'm going to wake up and be like is it Christmas
morning?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Go get a fucking goose.
You know what I mean.
There's no goose for sale.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
We'll get some champagne.
Instead, we'll bring the PinotNoir for the pairing.
I rate him in.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Back to the women and how you guys are.
Let me be honest with you.
This is how I look at it.
Ten years ago, 15 years ago, Iwas never a guy based on sexism.
I never really believed in that.
I guess I was just introducedto life differently.
I was in the military, wherewomen were master chiefs or
whatever it may be.
I was never really held down.
(31:59):
My mother was a beast anyway.
My sister is very dominant, soI was always really held down.
My mother was a beast Anyway,my sister's very dominant.
So I was always around strongwomen my aunts, my grandmother
very dominant strong Italianwomen.
And and right now I can tellyou this, as time went on, I
feel when it comes to wine anddoing my thing, I'm a lot more
(32:20):
quick to go directly to a womanSom than I am a man, whether it
be a woman sales rep, a womanjust in a discussion, and this
is truly how I feel, because thepretentiousness is not there.
When I go deal with men, Iwanna smash them.
A lot of the guys I wanna smashbecause a lot of them are
trying to sell you.
Listen to me, they're trying tosell you their opinion yeah and
(32:43):
they're not trying to explain toyou why they're not teaching
you what it is or the reason whythey're thinking the way it is.
They're trying to explain toyou why you should think the way
they are, and I realize thatshit.
So I have a very low tolerancefor that for that period, right?
So a lot of the wine psalms nowthat are, guys typically aren't
.
Whether they're psalms or not,they're very pushy, they're very
(33:05):
demanding.
You got to have it like this,but I don't want that.
I'll tell somebody I want a niceGattianata and they'll bring me
a uh, something, a Sagrantino,because that's what they want
and I'm like but that's not whatI wanted.
I asked you what I wanted here,sell me, sell me what I want
here.
Do you have anything in theback?
And they still want to pushwhat they want, to push and
convince me, whereas women willbe like oh, gattianata, huh,
(33:26):
let's do this.
I have this, this, this andthis.
So I'm a lot more quick to goto a woman.
A woman's palate's a lot moredelicate these days.
It's a lot more.
You know, unless I'm talkingabout I don't want to push all
men down these ways.
I'm not like that either.
But to be honest with you,sitting here with you guys
talking about wine is a lot morecomforting than going to find
(33:46):
three guys to sit here and talkabout wine.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, it would be a different conversation.
It would be a differentconversation.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
It wouldn't be about wine, it would slowly go away
and you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
It gets into that little what you said what you
avoided?
The frat boy party a little bit, yeah Well.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I think that women I mean any industry, so it's not
just wine, so any male-dominatedindustry, construction, medical
, any of those.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Anything.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Women have to work harder to prove themselves, so
therefore they make better teammembers, better employees,
better long-term everything,because you have more to prove.
And even though it has changeda lot in the past 10 years, I
mean I call it digital Darwinism, where we're like we're
advancing faster than we arecapable of keeping up with.
So as a society, we are tryingto process all of this diversity
and inclusion but deep down, westill have our core, you know
wiring, and that's still hard toovercome.
So, like the visceral reactionyou had is very like that's
(34:39):
visceral for a lot of people.
If you say it's a woman,they're like, like they always
there's something that's goingto happen.
But I think that it's helped alot and I mean, listening to you
guys talk, I always felt thesame way.
Um, you know, my mom was verylike chauvinistic towards men.
She's like men really can't doshit like that I can't do.
So I was raised to doeverything a man could do, which
included, like hard everythingso I never that issue.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I don't know women outside of that.
All the women I'm surrounded byare that way.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
We're not normal.
I mean, we know that Maybe youare normal.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
and I don't know, maybe the guys who are bitching
about it are the pussies whoain't normal.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
If guys say that, if guys say and look at me and say
I'm just saying they're here,fuck you.
Yeah, because I don't care.
If you don't like it, comefight me.
You know where to find me justto go online and fight me.
I don't care.
I'm telling you right now.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
I think that this is the most wild show we've had so
far.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So we're fine, you guys are fine no, but the bottom
line is that's how I feel.
I'm not saying it for any otherreason.
It's, it's our show, yeah, andwe invite who we want on the
show, who we feel comfortabletalking to on the show, and
there's not three men sittinghere talking about wine with me
and I don't think that'll everbe the case.
Individually, possibly, but asfar as a panel, I'm not
interested.
I've already heard of it.
(35:56):
You listen to them all anyway.
They just repeat each other.
You got it going on, dude.
All you have to say is it'sfucking good.
You know what?
98.
Everyone shits their pants andgoes home.
End of story.
Because that Now, if a womanwere to say the same thing, how
much more research would have togo into that to believe her?
Or you know what I mean?
I get it.
I get it and I would probablybelieve her first, just because
(36:18):
you have to feel you work for it.
So you're going to.
So it's not going to be a falseass bullshit.
People got to have respect andpride in that and I don't think
they understand that.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I think we need to talk about the money aspect of
this too.
Is there still a lot ofdiscrepancies that you guys see
in the in the industry betweenmale and female Psalms?
Speaker 4 (36:35):
in far as pay and currently.
Thank you very much, but I meanin general, like overall.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I mean, what do you, what have you seen?
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Yeah, absolutely the last job that I held.
I was managing and also the SOM.
The next person that got hiredafter me, which was a male, was
20,000, paid 20,000 dollars ayear more and they didn't even
have the same credentials.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Wow.
That was that was interesting.
Yeah, that's a kick in the ass.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I just don't, I cannot fathom it.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
It's sad.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I can't fathom it.
I understand what you guys aresaying and I hear it, but I've
always had a hard time graspingthis because I've never been
exposed to it and I look into itand I just don't fucking
understand it.
If you know what you're doingand you know what you're talking
about, what is the problem here?
I don't get it how somebody canmake such a.
It pisses me off.
I don't get it.
I'm sorry, I don't get it.
I never.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Currently I get paid more because I'm a woman but I'm
self-employed.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
But you own your job, so you took a different path.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I mean you, you're tasting.
Me and Bethany work togetheroften, pretty much every weekend
, on doing something.
As far as the specials andcoming together with wine doing
a tasting, we have a really nicewine dinner coming up here two,
three weeks October 29th,october 29th, we have a huge
Plump Jack Cade wine dinner.
It's going to be really nice.
So we have the privilege oftalking to each other and
feeding each other off of ourpassion.
(38:02):
Right, I love wine, but I lovefood more.
She loves food but loves winemore.
Am I safe saying yeah, okay, sotogether with that, combination
, we come up with some shit.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
Do you ever miss that ?
Oh, every day.
Yeah, I miss the collaboration.
I miss working with food as aretailer.
I get to send people home withtheir bottles and I always tell
them take pictures.
You know, I want to see wheremy babies end up, but in the
restaurant world you get to pourit for them at the table and
watch the bite-sip interactionsand their eyes kind of widen a
(38:34):
little bit and their jaw dropsand you know you can see them
sink a little bit and I missthose experiences.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
And working with a chef to taste the flavors and go
over it.
I miss those experiences andworking with a chef to taste the
flavors and go over it.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
Yeah, and the collaboration of just
integrating flavors and not onlythe food making the wine better
and the wine making the foodbetter, but also the chef making
the saum better and the saummaking the chef better.
We are forced to hone in ourskills more when we collaborate
with other people that are in asimilar field, that are just as
talented, and a knife sharpens aknife kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Exactly so, speaking of Bethany, cause she's here we
have a huge.
We have a really goodconnection when it comes to the
food and wine.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
And I can say this right here, right now, that that
you have helped me educate mypalate, or, um, not so much, not
so much educated, but test it,bring it to places.
I wouldn't, because I want tomake sure that I can produce
something that she's going to beexcited about, and it also
excites me to get somethinggoing and I'll, I'll, we'll just
go off of description and thenshe'll come back in the middle
(39:30):
of me cooking my special.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Sometimes you'll bring taste this with that.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Taste it with it now taste it with it now, and I'll
be, you know, and I'm sorewarded by it because hand in
the pot, like here I'll justfeed it to you, here you're
because, you know, an hour intoservice, you know 13 specials
sold already.
I'm finally tasting it with itand I'm like oh my god, thank
you, it worked.
Not only did it work, but itworked way better than we
thought yeah and then I'll sayno, you taste this yeah, get
(39:55):
that, get that over here this isdemi with that and she'll be
like all right, we're fuckingdoing it and it's a great time
it's it's instant reward and Ialways think about that with
your position as far as being inthat type of shop.
But you ever want to come andhang out with a chef, you can
just be in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Come hang out with us and we can do a collab like
that.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
It would be a lot of fun, and that goes for all you
guys.
I think it would be wonderfulwhen, beautifully, with that,
nice wine, everything, I knew itas soon as I walked in.
I'm like all right, I love it,I love the stories, I love
everything.
Tell me what we should do aboutum, is there any way we can get
?
We said at the beginning ofthis show, kind of beginning,
(40:33):
how no one walked into this jobknowing it was a job.
Right, how does that happen?
Where we could make it that wayand where do you think it could
go from there?
Right, you get to the levelwhere you almost hit the top of
where you can be, right.
So what?
What about?
Wine is going to go into thefuture?
You know what's going to comeback, what's going to go around.
Give me like each, you give melike two minutes of what you
(40:54):
think of how you can get itgoing.
Can you bring younger womeninto it?
It's not all about women either.
I sound like I'm bashing dudes.
I'm fucking, surely not.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
No, you're empowering women Right, but I'm not
bashing dudes.
Nobody's going to hate you forthat.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Look, I got this thing.
I went in just to have fundoing it and I did it and I'm
not going to go any further withit because I cannot compete
with you guys.
My passion is in that kitchen.
I love wine, I drink wine.
I need to know enough about itbecause I own a lot of it and I
want to sell it and I want todrink and compare it.
So I did what I had to do.
So I can't bash men who aregoing further than me, but I
(41:28):
definitely ain't going to bashthe women who have gone further
than me.
That's crazy.
So what do you think couldhappen?
Young girls coming in, youngpeople coming in, how do they go
after the wine industry withouthaving to learn about it by
mistake?
Speaker 4 (41:43):
after the wine industry, without having to
learn about it by mistake.
Well, we actually have beenhosting classes here with the
teams from both locations to beable to further their studies.
So I teach classes on Tuesdaysfor those pursuing their exams
or who want to further theireducation.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
And it's not just a normal class.
You're doing a phenomenal job.
This is a bang-up class.
This is a really good.
This is basically a miniseminar that you're doing
Correct.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
But for people not in the area, you can always go to
your local restaurants, find thegood places and ask I send them
to Kira.
A lot and shops, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I send them to Kira.
Crystal Shad's also aphenomenal person who W's out of
her shop.
So for those who are not in theindustry, there's now shops who
are actually taking up thatresponsibility, because there's
a lot of complexity doingtastings in busy restaurants, of
(42:34):
having to take seats out of thedining room.
Put those in, establishtastings, and it will.
We'll probably be having someon the patio coming up in the
next year, which is actuallybeing built right now, which is
funny.
But I think as a SOM we'refocused on expanding sales in
the restaurant.
So that comes from educatingthe staff themselves, and it's
(42:57):
really interesting we're havingthis conversation about women in
wine, because all of the peoplein my class are male.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
All of them.
There's no other females rightnow.
All right, ladies, so you'vegot to show up at your local
wine shop.
Start drinking.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
But not only are they males in her class, they're
males with a rate of success.
So they started with nothing,meaning a credential, and
they're all at least level oneright now.
Most of them and the ones whoaren't are going and, with your
help, on your blinds at yourshop that we send them to or she
sends them to.
I absolutely agree with them,and I talk to Peter and Chris
about this a lot.
You guys are putting somethingtogether that is going to
(43:34):
benefit this area and that's whyI started this conversation up
by saying you guys are some ofthe most important people in the
wine industry, because you'reactually giving back to it and
if anything were to happen toyou tomorrow morning, you can
say I did my part.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
You know what I'm saying.
I think the biggestconversation over females versus
male psalms is really, honestly, because we've had to like
fight this.
Fight not only for theeducation but also to
overcompensate for this kind ofidea that we don't know enough
when we have the credentials.
It's like a double-edged sword.
(44:06):
You're like dealing with twofactors at one time.
I cannot tell you the amount ofpeople who've compared me to
another male psalm in the areaor like, oh, did you study under
him?
Do you know him?
Or I was like no, I've donethis path.
Oh, well, he's the best.
And it's like well, who is thebest?
We're all.
We all have the samecredentials on paper.
(44:27):
We've had more experience inthe years than others, or some
more than others, which I willalways give credit to, but it's,
I think, for me as an approachfor a psalm is like we still
have our own palates and we allhave our own sales technique and
we all have our way of likepresenting wine to people.
(44:49):
I always have come from abackground of community.
You, you can't build a songwithout community.
You like all of your exams andeverything that you do are
self-paid.
For a self-study.
There's no like you don't go tocollege and study wine in a lot
of the industry raising.
So it's all self-study, it'sall self like and we will mess
(45:09):
up because it's like does thiswork, does this not work?
And especially in a smallerarea where there's a less like
sums per capita, you're reachingto outside cities, bringing it
in and also facing this likebringing this new idea to a
restaurant that even here, likeI've never, I've never had a
(45:40):
sommelier before Like what do wedo?
I don't want to, I don't wantto talk to you, I'm intimidated,
I'm like no, no, no, this isabout hospitality and this is
about making you have a greatexperience.
It's many vacation from yourday.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, I think you need to step out of your comfort
zone, to learn more about wineanyways, and go to nicer places.
And it is intimidating, it is,it's different, it can be it's
in all different languages.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
It comes in every shape and size.
There's so many factors.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Making someone comfortable is the key.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
It is.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
That's the key.
Don't make them feel bad forwhat they don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Don't make them feel stupid.
It's like your first day in thegym.
You don't want it to be bad.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
What do you say to?
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Well, I was just going to say we need, I want to
get feedback from all of thembefore we run out of time, so
just on the industry advice topeople who are coming up, what
you think they should try and doand where they could reach out.
Speaker 5 (46:30):
Yeah, exciting, that's always been the mission
statement of vino culture is thepeople I'm employing honestly
have generally no winecredentials, and I want to train
someone up.
It's a lot easier thanuntraining bad habits, uh, in
terms of, like elitist,pretentious culture in in wine.
And so, um, the first generalmanager I hired, she's now a
certified sommelier.
She was zero wine industryexperience.
Um, the second general manager,um, she went from level one to
(46:52):
now a certified sommelier.
And all of the women who work Ionly actually have female staff
um, uh, who work part-time,honestly, really had no
experience in wine, and nowthey're learning and studying
and growing, and so I think thekey is to get rid of the
scarcity mindset of like, oh, ifthere's another female som out
there, that means I'm not asimportant or I'm not as special.
(47:13):
We need to get rid of that.
It's not a scarcity game, it'sa collaboration game, and if we
all can get over the scarcitymindset and learn to collaborate
together, then that's whereit's at.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, and what's your ?
We can all be SOM Barbie.
We need a SOM Barbie we don'thave that.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Okay, we have three of them right here.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
It's not child friendly, it's not child we're
still promoting alcohol.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
It's fine, everything is fine.
Well, you?
Speaker 3 (47:42):
know and uh, on the side of like coming down to
other people's level, is it's?
I find it very important and Iactually have a social media
platform where I do a little bitof, uh, wine education on there
.
Well, and there's a lot of wineeducators on social media like
TikTok, instagram, whatever.
And I think that promotesaccessibility.
And I think that's a reallyimportant thing too, because
(48:04):
when you, you know, go intoBarnes and Noble or a bookstore
and you're like, okay, I want tobuy a wine book because I want
to start learning about wine,you're facing like the same,
looking at cookbooks, you'refacing a wall of books and
you're like, oh, okay, what do Ichoose?
And so I think, having thoselittle moments of accessibility,
of community because, likeBethany was saying, like it's a
(48:27):
community, it's not and, tony, Iknow you said earlier that it's
competition, but I don'tpersonally look at it that way.
I look at it as this is a groupof women that I can learn
something from.
This is a group of people I canlearn something from and
together we can grow and buildthat wine culture and wine
industry.
And Kira has done a great jobwith, you know, culture, like
(48:48):
really making a mark in downtownNorfolk.
You've done a great job outhere really making a mark in
downtown Norfolk.
You've done a great job outhere really making a mark and
you're starting to see peoplereally get interested in wine
again.
And I know, like this, theyounger generation isn't
drinking as much.
You know, alcohol isn't reallya thing for a lot of the younger
generation.
But then when you startbringing it in to talk about how
(49:09):
you know a glass of winedoesn't have to be going out for
you know 10 shots of tequila atthe end of the night, it's not
the same thing.
Like you said, this is the lowkey show.
Yeah, this is our much lowerkey.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
We're not drinking tequila on the show.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
But, yeah but it is a different, it is a different is
culture.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
I mean, that's what it is.
So it does bring people, levelsthem up a little bit, but yeah,
I appreciate all theirperspectives.
But yeah, I appreciate alltheir perspectives.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
It's a beautiful thing.
So one last question for you,daily driver, what are you
drinking?
Speaker 4 (49:38):
My nickname started at the first restaurant I worked
at.
It's Bubbles man.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Bubbles, one in particular.
Speaker 4 (49:44):
Anything that's from the area of champagne and not a
Prosecco.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
That's your daily driver.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
I do, I drink champagne.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
It is.
You're right about that.
I know that about you.
That's true Daily driver.
Speaker 5 (49:54):
So I'm currently not drinking at all.
Right now I'm hardcore training, so electrolytes and
pre-workout mix.
But, if I were to drink, if youwere Some Italian varietal that
I've never heard of before,just to try a new thing.
That would be what I love it.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Daily driver for you.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
This is literally the toughest question you've asked
me so far.
Like, oh God, you know, Iactually do drink a lot of
Virginia wine right now.
I am really proud of.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
I am so proud of Virginia.
There's nothing wrong with thatit comes so far, so just coming
into the season, kind of likehitting the Petit Mansang and
the Cab Franc quite, quite a bit.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
I just picked up some of that Dogwood and Thistle.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yes, that's such a beautiful label too, because
it's the collaboration ofsomeone from Virginia and
someone from Scotland, andthat's where the Dogwood and
Thistle label comes from.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
It's such a beautiful product.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Amazing.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Oh, I drink anything.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Me, I'm going Nebbiolo all day long.
I'm the most accepting parenthere.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
I love all my children.
I'm the most accepting parenthere.
I love all my children.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
I'm fine yeah, I'm a Nebbiolo freak all day long.
Typically, a Barolo would be mydaily.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
I'm the one bartender on the panel so I just drink
liquor, so I'm the worst onehere.
We can get together for tequilalater.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
I'm going to end this by saying this, because we are
running out of time.
It's been amazing having youladies here.
Really want to look forward todoing something more, maybe a
collaboration, something likethat.
We can do that and record it,film it, do something live do
some tastings.
Some tastings.
I really want to get out thereand get this going out there
more to to really show you showthese people, what you really
are?
I think so.
I don't.
I think a conversation is justa little tiny facet of the very
(51:40):
important to let it know.
You know what I mean?
Um, like just the taste.
I have two daughters and I justhope that women like you can
empower them to do what theyneed to do, whether it be wine
or whatever it is they're doing.
Um, I'm, I'm very, I'mimpressed, I'm intrigued, I'm,
uh, inspired.
So I'm saying thatwholeheartedly and honestly.
I'm gonna, like I said, I'mfucking surrounded here, so
better watch what I say.
But anyway, thank you forcoming on the show.
I really appreciate anythingclosing for you, casey.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
No, I just say actually for all the people who
are listening.
If you want to reach out andlearn more, I'm sure all of
these women would love to giveyou advice, help you out, being,
you know, listening ear.
So do you want to telleverybody where they can find
you online?
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah, I have a.
I'm mostly on TikTok, but it'llbe a, and it's also like pop
culture and wine, because Ithink that's like, like I said,
another way to kind of come downto people's level, but at
Traveling Booze Hound, so youcan find me Traveling Booze
Hound.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Traveling Booze Hound , I love it.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
I go on a lot of road trips to wineries.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
What do you got there At Vinoculture, wineshop At
Vinoculture.
Speaker 5 (52:34):
Wineshop, that's your plug.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Come check you out now, bethany.
Speaker 4 (52:38):
Mine's just my name at Bethany G Morris.
It's on Instagram, but otherthan that you'll find me here at
Luce Downtown or Luce Granbyand Luce Secundo.
That's where I'm mostly atGranby and Lucia Secundo.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
That's where I'm mostly at.
So if you want a hands-onexperience with Bethany, come in
here, check her out, let her doher thing and pay attention to
these women coming up in thewine world, because I am, I
definitely am.
I don't think this is going tobe the last time we have a-.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Oh no, it's not.
I think this is an amazingrepresentation.
We'll put everything below foreverybody that wants to find you
guys and cheers to just a bunchof bad-ass women, bad-ass women
had me settled down.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
You guys had me settled today.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
Calm today.
I appreciate it.
Calm Cheers, no really.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Honestly Ciao for now .
Speaker 4 (53:20):
As we say, drink more wine, all right.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Drink more.
We are rolling, kristen, we are rolling, we are
here.
Here we are Cheers.
So listen to this Five secondsof just glory here.
I'm going to say this right now, right away we are surrounded,
I'm surrounded, I'm surroundedby freaking, powerful women
right now.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, you love it I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm surrounded, so this is the deal here we have
Leanna Biscotti from Glass Light, cara Cara Hill correct from
Vino Culture, your shop.
Bethany Morris, here from LuceSecundo wine director Legend the
myth.
It's not a myth, actually,she's right here, she's here,
she's going home, that's okay.
And then, of course, we haveCasey in the place to be, and
(00:38):
little old me, I know, tony,you're just surrounded by women
today.
That's it right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
We thought it would be powerful because when we
talked about this show, wewanted to have diversity and we
wanted to have a couple episodeswhere it was really all women
in this business, who don'trepresent the majority in a lot
of these positions.
So this is our first all-femalepanel, right?
Well, aside from him, it is.
I mean panel.
You are the panel.
He's just a fixture here now.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That's right.
He just has to be here.
I just talk.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
He's grandfathered in , he's stuck with us, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Bethany, what did you pour?
First of all, let's get to this.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Oh yeah, breakfast wine actually Breakfast.
Okay, most psalms like to starttheir day with bubbles if
they're not working.
So this is actually Cata Bosco.
It actually an Italiansparkling wine made in the same
way as champagne, and it'sphenomenal, it's beautiful, it's
a phenomenal start to the day.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It's going to be a good conversation.
So what a lot of people don'trealize and what I'm so thrilled
about all the time is that Iwas actually able I'm lucky
enough to be able to summon upthree of what I consider with
all my looks and studies andresearch, because I'm in the
industry.
Obviously, I'm alwaysresearching my industry at all
(01:50):
levels, whether it be wine, food, uh, booze drinks, whiskey,
whatever, whatever the subjectmay be, and I have three.
I have the pleasure of havingthree of the most valuable
assets to the wine community invirginia yes, and and I think
that anybody who doesn'tunderstand that or doesn't
understand the wine um qualityhere in Virginia, they just
don't get it.
They don't get it Because thefirst thing that comes with
learning about wines firstly, ofcourse, obviously is a palate
(02:11):
and the understanding of wineand the passion to go do it.
That's the easy part, right,that's the baseline.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
No.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
No, it's not easy.
What gets harder, though whatgets harder is the maintenance
yes.
What gets harder, though.
What gets harder is themaintenance yes, maintaining
that, maintaining that striving.
While you guys all came up anddid the thing and went and got
to where you are, there's also ahuge wave of people behind you.
We call that competition right.
(02:37):
So it happens in the chef worldas well, where we work, we
study, we play, and then we getto where we are.
You have a choice You're eithergoing to be comfortable where
you are or you're going tocontinue to fucking move forward
right and set the standard.
So doing that as a woman intoday's industry with the wine
is tell me about it.
Tell me, bethany, how you feelabout it.
Where do you stand on thiswhole thing?
(02:59):
Just give me a littlebackground to where you came
from.
How did you get to where youare?
Where are you sitting now?
And then we'll move on, and I'mjust really interested in
hearing this, and I thinkeverybody else is.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah, so I've been a sommelier.
I passed my first exam in 2012.
It was an accident.
Actually.
Never thought I was going toend up being a sommelier.
I was actually an assistantmanager of a fine dining jazz
club.
(03:27):
It was in Virginia Beach andthere was a girl who actually
was running the wine program atthe time.
She was like a military bratand she had been traveling.
Her parents were high up in themilitary.
She actually went to a lot ofbanquets and drank a lot of wine
.
She was very young and she'svery talented, but she didn't
show up for work.
One day she was supposed totake this first level psalm exam
(03:48):
and there was no one to take it.
So the owner was like bethany,you should do it.
I was like I I have not studiedfor this at all like I'm running
people, not wine.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So, uh, he's like it's fine, at least you can get
the experience somebody gets sothe test, the test was that day
and she didn't show it was thenext week.
Oh, the next week, okay, so youhad.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
So I had a week to study.
I had grown up in the industry,like I've been in restaurants
since I was 17 and so I've beenaround wine, um, but I hadn't
really like studied it as acareer.
I was used to waiting tablesand running the floor.
So coming into, likespecifically, wine, it was like
(04:33):
what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So the best part about that now that you're
saying that, for anybody who'sbeen here or who's even been
here the best thing aboutBethany when you're working is
you are geared on wine.
That's obviously the deal, butyou always revert back too and
you can't stop it.
There's no wine to be served.
She's running like a waitstaffor a SA or a manager or a host
(04:55):
or hostess.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
I can't sit still.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
You can't sit still but that shows that's where you
came from.
It's obviously ingrained in youto continue to do that, so I
didn't mean to interrupt.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Go ahead.
No, you're fine.
And then I actually got thebook.
I studied as best I cram,studied.
I was up all night some nightsand then I was like, all right,
how hard could this be?
And then we get into the firsttwo days.
There's two days of lectureswhen you're taking the
introductory and then they giveyou a test there.
No tasting aspect to it,there's just a written exam.
And I was like, all right, theytold me that this was going to
be on the test, filled it out,lo and behold, it passed and I
(05:32):
was like, whoa, okay, this iscool.
And there was this.
Everybody was drinkingchampagne at the end and they
all call your name.
And then the people areembarrassed if they don't call
your name and it's just thiswhole weird ordeal.
But you actually get to likemeet a lot of people in the
industry or people who arepassionate about wine and I
think at that celebratory momentwe actually went to Eurasia
(05:56):
afterwards and drank a ton ofwine and in celebration and um,
after that I was like this is areally cool experience.
I got kind of hooked oneverybody getting excited about
it and the passion for it and Iwas like that's the direction I
want to go and then it justfueled you.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Now you have the fuel and now I was like this sounds
way better than you know doingdishes A little bit yeah, so 12
years later.
It's a little strategic in someway.
So, with all that being said,you went on, you carried on, you
did the level two, you keptgoing, and now, here you are,
directing this program, which isamazing.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
And just got a Wine Spectator Award.
This is your second one outsideof here, is that right?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
It is my third.
Third.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
So it's your third one.
So you definitely have theexperience and obviously your
passion for it shows and it'swithout a question.
So we'll get more to that in aminute, but let's hear what your
story is.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Kira, go for it.
Well, I got into wine at theearly age of 18, maybe 19, 19.
I went to college at FloridaInternational University and
it's number six school in theworld, or at least was at the
time for hospitality.
I was not studying that, butall my friends were, and so I
got to volunteer at South BeachFood and Wine Festival and
Gastora Fest and work all theseevents and my friends were
(07:06):
studying to become chefs andrestaurateurs and hoteliers, and
so on the weekends, instead ofgoing to frat parties, we would
go to someone's house and do afive-course food and wine
pairing dinner just to practice,you had classy, classy underage
drinking.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Good, okay, wow, we did it very differently Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Boone's Farm was that wine?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, differently, wow, was that wine?
Yeah, no, boone's farm, thatwasn't our generation.
Sorry, we're older.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
Okay, it's fine, it was our wine.
Yep, so yeah, I um, I got intoreally interesting wines from
all around the world, um, andinteresting foods from all
around the world.
My friends were from anywherefrom ghana to switzerland to
curacao, trinidad and Tobago,latin America, china.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Russia, everywhere.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
And so I was definitely in the minority, and
so I got to experience food fromall over the world and it
really expanded my palate.
And so at the time I wasworking fine dining as well and
I learned, oh, I can make a lotmore money if I know how to
recommend wines and talk aboutwines more.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Say that louder for the people in the back please,
those people in the back whodon't realize that.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
Yes, if you don't just take orders, if you know
how to recommend wines andcreate that experience, it does
make you a lot more money as aserver at the time.
And then I moved up to DC whenI had just turned 21.
And so I got a job as a cashierat a wine store total wine so.
But I was still askingquestions like what really is
the difference between you knowBordeaux and Brunello?
(08:35):
You know very different things,and so I hadn't really started
studying anything.
It was really just allenjoyment at that time and I
fell in love with wine and thenthat helped me get on the sales
team.
So they quickly realized I waspassionate about wine, even if I
didn't know anything reallyabout it, and so they had me
recommending wines on thetasting tables and on the floors
and I just turned 21.
And then I'm starting to hostthese wine tasting events and
(08:58):
classes.
I still don't know anythingabout it.
Meanwhile I'm getting my degreein economic development of
Latin America so this was not mycareer choice at all and end up
finishing the degree, theyoffered me a management position
at the time of their number onewine store in the US and ran
their whole education program,traveled to multiple different
(09:18):
states training incomingmanagers about wine.
At this point, like I know mystuff, I studied a lot and
really fell in love with wineeducation, but still it was just
a job to pay my pay off, mystudent loans, until I get my
real job in my real industry,what I paid a lot of money for
my career and my uh, my degreeand turns out I didn't want to
step behind a desk and doresearch and um.
(09:38):
So I ended up giving that allup and I was like I really just
love this whole wine thing andeducation and working in
restaurants and the hospitalityindustry and creating those aha
moments for people.
And so I was in Guatemala atthe time and two weeks in, I'm
like I don't want to do this atall.
I want to do this one thing.
So I came back early and signedup to take my Somali exam.
(10:00):
I took level one and level twoback to back in the same weekend
and, yeah, six months laterpassed the test, something I
didn't know I was eveninterested in, and the rest is
kind of history.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Crushing it, crushing it.
That's a great story, man, whatyou got Very different.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I just learned so much about you.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I actually, you know, I never really thought that
wine was going to be my careereither.
I don't think that anybody justkind of I think very few people
set out and they're like wineis what I'm doing.
I was restaurant my whole life.
I've never done anything else.
I started working inrestaurants when I was 15.
I've worked in sports bars andtequila bars and beer bars and
(10:41):
I've done pretty much everything.
And when I and I've always kindof been around wine, I've
always liked it.
I went to university of SouthCarolina and studied Spanish and
Latin American studies, cause Iwanted to learn about culture,
like I wanted to learn aboutdifferent cultures.
And for me, when I found wine,I was like, oh, that's a such a
cool way to learn about culture,cause it's not just wine that
(11:03):
you're learning about.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You're learning about geology, climate, food.
You're learning about so muchwhen you say that because when I
was studying for my level onething, I was so intrigued by
things I was learning outside ofthe wine right I'm learning
about little sayings in life,like a man is worth his salt and
where those expressions camefrom from the roman colonies
paying people with salt via thewine trade.
There were so many things I'velearned from it.
You know there was so manylittle, like you said, tidbits
(11:32):
of stuff that you're learningthat doesn't really even pertain
to wine but it was things youknew all your life, but it
somehow does.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I didn't know it came from wine.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Exactly.
And so when I started at BurtonBaldwin in 2018, I think
somewhere around there and themanager at the time was like,
leanna, why don't you have yoursommelier?
Like, why don't you have thisyet?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
And I was like I don't know, I just don't have it
.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And he's like well, you should go for it just try it
, and that was a good restaurantto get that.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Really great because I mean Burden Baldwin beautiful
restaurant really high exposureto very high quality, very high
end wine.
So you get to see those firstgrowth Bordeaux's, you get to
see those like aging moments andreally have access to a lot of
wine that a lot of people don'thave access to.
So I was really really lucky inthat particular situation but I
(12:21):
got my level one and then twomonths later I got my level one
and then two months later I gotmy level two and waited a few
years and then finally I waslike you know what, I'm just
gonna try WSET and see what itis and see how I like it.
And WSET three took me like twomonths and I hopefully I'm
gonna do my French wine scholarnext.
But it's just always.
There's just so much to learnand I'm somebody who, if you're
(12:45):
not learning, you're not growingand, like you were saying
earlier, you get stagnant andyou start losing it and you
start losing that passion and so, being surrounded by wine,
which is so ever-changing,you're constantly growing
because you're constantlygrowing and surrounded by wine
drinkers and wine, you knowveyers and wine enthusiasts.
And you can learn from everybodythat you meet and even if they,
(13:07):
you know, might not have thecertifications that you do like,
you can learn from anybodyBecause you know, my old boss
lived in Champaign.
He grew up in Champaign.
Of course I'm going to learnsomething from him.
I grew up in Chesapeake,chesapeake.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
There you go.
Definitely not the same.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Well, you know the funny thing is there's so much
about wine to know like you guysyou understand, and you just
said it there's so much to learnabout it that it's almost
discouraging sometimes forsomeone like me.
I went and got my level onejust to have it.
Here I am with my little pin onfeeling cool, right, but
there's so much to learn thatit's it's almost intimidating to
the point where, if it's notyour chosen profession, you
(13:43):
almost lose focus on it becauseit's such.
It's like looking over thehorizon saying the earth is
round or it's flat, you don'treally know.
It is so much out there and andthat's that's the part of wine
that is so impressive to me andpeople who study it, gain from
it and grow like you guys do isjust crazy to me.
It's, it's amazing what?
What do you guys think about?
(14:04):
As far as, like um we weretalking about a minute ago, and
everybody's path is differentbut kind of the same, it all
comes around diversity comesaround your passion for it comes
how you were introduced to it.
So something was said earliertoo about how it's not really.
It's not a profession you goafter, right Me myself.
I never thought I'd be into wine.
(14:25):
I fell into wine, quite bymistake as well.
No-transcript deep.
(14:56):
I went there about three, threeyears, maybe something like
that.
Then, of course, I got back inthe kitchen because I was, at
the time, way too young for thattype of responsibility, way too
young for those numbers, waytoo young to understand what it
meant to restauranteurs who arecounting on me.
I'd rather be surfing thanputting in my numbers before
noon.
You know what I mean.
So there was a lot of problemsI had with it, understanding it,
and now that I'm older, lookingback, I realize the importance
(15:19):
of this.
I mean the importance of a goodwine rep or a good salesperson
or purveyor or a or a psalm in arestaurant.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
It's fucking huge yeah, shout out to all the wine
reps that help us out, becausethey are the unsung heroes that
keep us straight sometimes.
Yeah yeah, no, and they're someof the most knowledgeable
people in the industry as wellyeah this is what they do every
day just alongside us.
They don't have a pin, but someof them do.
But they're incredible peopleto work with or they can break
(15:48):
you as a sum and you're like myevent was counting on you.
Yeah true, where did thedelivery go?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, or why is this not my delivery?
Yeah right, yep, no doubt.
So what do you feel, bethany,about the is there?
I know there is, but what'swith the being a woman in this
industry is is are youcomfortable?
Is it a comfortable place?
Has the wine world acceptedwomen to your guys's level of
(16:16):
knowledge in it, or do you feelthat there's still a struggle
with that as far as having towork through that, push through
that envelope or break throughthat glass?
If you will, you know what Imean.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
or yeah, this is a really complicated subject for
us.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I think it's.
It's a great one, though it's agreat subject to talk about.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Um, I I feel honored to be on the panel for it,
because we've lived and breathedthis, I think, every day since
we chose wine, or wine chose us,as the story goes um.
But I would say, being a femalein the industry, we've we are
very blessed in our generation alittle bit.
There has been a lot moreacceptance and growth for women
in wine.
There's forums, there'sorganizations.
(16:53):
Now there is a lot moreplatform for women in wine.
I think that's happened in thelast 10 years specifically in
our field, but it's always beena conversation around a boys
club being a song.
It's definitely been more of aman's world, even as a wine rep,
(17:14):
and I would say there was a bigshift of that right around
COVID, when there was there wasactually an article that came
out in New York Times about it.
There was a little bit ofcontroversy and scandal that
came out in New York Times aboutit.
There was a little bit ofcontroversy and scandal that
came out um, but there was alsokind of this realization of like
(17:35):
, okay, these women are actuallysome of the most educated
because you have to like, betough, put yourself out there,
take a lot of criticism, oh, youdon't know anything.
How could you like and ifyou're, I've got it a lot myself
of like, oh, that's really cute, they let you do that and it's
like sorry triggered much Ithink it's really interesting
(18:00):
because is that?
Speaker 1 (18:00):
more the men saying that to you, you feel, or women
say it too I think it's peopleat a table.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
There's more of and I would say it comes from more of
a lack of knowledge of what wedo combined with what they've
seen in the media, so it can bejust misinformation a lot of
times.
We usually try to hospitablyskip over it and get back to the
subject of wine a lot of timesor I do specifically myself but
(18:28):
I would say that there is thiskind of there is a little
mystery to what we do as acareer.
But there's also a bigdocumentary that came out in 13
called Psalm, which kind of puta platform for what Psalms do as
a career out.
And it was all men in thismovie and it was like oh my gosh
(18:50):
.
And there was this huge jump tosommiers being in the limelight
and everybody started wantingto go pass an exam.
There were people from djs topeople from like anywhere not
related to restaurants.
People were jumping in on thissommier train jumping the trend
right yeah, and wine is alwaysabout trends honestly comes and
(19:10):
goes um, but I think there wasjust this like huge influx of
sommeliers and the court endedup moving towards the situation
of like okay, we really want tofocus on the people and change
the exam forum to focus onpeople who are actually studying
wine and also towards theformat of people who are in
(19:31):
restaurants.
I think that was more of apillar they took.
Cms took more of this approachto it's geared towards people
who are actually runningprograms and more of the exams
came about that.
And I would say there was thisbig flip and influx of psalms
(19:52):
into the market there.
Every restaurant had a psalm atone point, whether they were a
hipster psalm or the verypolished.
Everyone had to have like thislike media presence of who they
were as a psalm and I think thatsounds like a chef world.
Yeah, it was like food, it justkind of blew up and it bubbled.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Put on a leather apron and all of a sudden you've
got five Michelin stars.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, and there was a big conversation about with
closer to COVID and this is akind of a touchy subject with, I
would say, the article thatcame out.
It's like there was this wholebig New York Times article that
came out on the upper echelon ofthe mega songs.
I like to call them, or likethe big, like old guard of
(20:34):
sommeliers who, um, were kind ofusing their platform to to, uh,
take advantage, take advantageof people and, let's be honest,
that was most that was men yeah,it was all, men it was all men,
so so the old guard is the men.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
That's what we're talking about.
Is the women coming up underunderneath them?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
and there was this article that was put out saying
that females were, like, veryexcited, and it's not even
pertaining to one sex.
It's like you want to be aroundthese master psalms because
once you get up into highercredentials, you have to be
mentored by one.
You need to have somebody inyour corner to pass an exam.
That's like 6% passing rate,and so you're trying to.
(21:15):
When you have a bunch of theseSOMs that now flooded the market
in every town, they're making ahuge amount of money off of
these.
Exams are not cheap by anymeans, I mean, and they're all
self-paid and all of our For areason.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, we've had a chance of doing it again.
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
And there was this like everybody wanted to get a
credential.
It gave them like some sort ofplatform now, and I think there
was this like huge push from alot of people to get in tasting
groups.
So there's always good and badthat comes out of situations
like this.
But at the end of the day,there was a lot of females who
(21:53):
came out and spoke about thefact that they were excited to
go and meet these master psalms.
They were excited to be undersome sort of mentorship, and
then it was flipped to wherethey felt like they were
powerless unless they were beingtaken advantage of in some
regard.
Now that's how the article cameout.
This is what I read.
(22:14):
This is, uh, some personalexperience.
I've gone through with some ofthe people mentioned, um, but I
don't.
I don't think that I've everbeen somebody.
I think it goes back for mewhere they always said don't
sleep with somebody you workwith in a restaurant.
This is like real restauranttalk right here.
It's like don't sleep withsomebody you you work with, and
(22:36):
so it's like I've always beenthe kind of the person of like I
want to keep that outside of,out of work, and so I've never
gotten like the only people Ithink I would get celebrity star
shock over was, like particularwinemakers, that I find their
product to be incredible, butother than that, it's just
people at the end of the daythat we're working with, and
they were somewhere in myjourney along the way and maybe
(22:58):
I just kept trailing on, so I'mgoing to say you know?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
you never bit, you never bit the, you never took
the bait.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
You never dipped your pen.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yes, what Dipped your pen in a Cody ink.
What about you on the retaillevel?
So you're in the store, you'redoing your thing, which is
awesome, well-known.
Everybody knows that downtown.
Do you feel the same thing whenyou get a lot of male customers
coming in to rely on you?
Talk about that.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
Yeah, I think that my first experience in the retail
world getting discriminatedbased on my sex was a co-worker
who we we became friends later,but this very old French man and
um.
So at one point I'm likestocking wine and I broke.
Um, I broke something and itshattered all over the place and
I'm cleaning up and he comes upto me and he puts his hand on
(23:40):
his apron and was like what areyou doing?
And I was like I'm cleaning upapparently I'm not very good at
this whole wine thing, but I'mgood at cleaning and he goes
maybe you should stick with whatyou know best.
And I was just like this verymuch, like oh, okay, okay, yikes
, and you know we'd makecomments regularly about like
well, what do you know?
You're a woman and you know, soI like really like that was the
(24:02):
first time being so, like,blatantly obvious.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And what year was this?
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Oh, this was.
I mean this was close to 18, 19years ago, so this is a long
time ago.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Well, at least there's that excuse.
It was still maybe a littlelonger.
Maybe it was a tail end of that.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Yeah, this was way before Me Too, or anything like
this.
This is not a time of the yearwhere you can like or a time of
the season that you could go andmake a complaint about
something like this, so you justsuck it up and grin and bear it
and like work harder and workharder, and that's.
I think our superpower is.
Um, if we grew up in theindustry before me too, you did
learn to grind.
You just learned to work harder,hustle more and prove everyone
(24:43):
and became the superpower.
I think so, um, you know, andwe, and we got that benefit from
the people who came before us,so it gets passed down.
So I think, when I was youngerand I was, you know, 24 managing
a wine store and every singleemployee was, um, older than me,
and the customers would come inand they'd be like, uh, can I,
(25:03):
can I speak to the manager?
I'm like that's me.
Well, what about that guy overthere?
And even, you know, point tothe guy with the white hair and
the apron and stuff like this.
It was like yeah, yeah, I justtired him.
Yeah, I'm training him rightnow, so you know it's.
It took a while for me to gettaken seriously.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Is that a woman thing or is that an age thing?
Both yeah, yeah, and I thinkyeah yeah, and now.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
I am well beyond my 20s, so I don't think people say
those things as much anymore.
Yeah, and now it's.
I think there's a lot morecuriosity.
The movie yeah Psalm that cameout really struck a lot of
people by surprise about howmuch work goes into this.
It's not just drinking all dayalthough you know cheers to
(25:44):
being able to do that sometimes,but it's so much work involved
and so much study and so I thinkpeople take Psalms more
seriously now and, yeah, a lotof interest into it and so and I
think, post Me Too movementthere's just a lot more
recognition for what's notacceptable and how much women
have had to work harder to getahead and to prove themselves,
(26:08):
both to themselves like I do ona daily basis, and other people
around, and I think the nextgeneration they're not going to
lead.
Every article with female psalmdoes XYZ.
That still says something todayand I am hoping that the next
generation that will sound asweird as today an article saying
male psalm does X, y, z.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
That sounds weird, right.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
I think the next generation is definitely like
gender fluidity nothing reallymatters, and so I don't think
we're going to have articlesthat start with the term female,
SOM or female chef, Alsobecause you got to remember one
thing Not only is it that, butthe people who are writing these
articles are also diversified.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
So that's the other thing too.
So that's in everybody's corneras well.
That's a good point, leanne.
What do you think?
Sorry, what do you think aboutthat?
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Well, no, I agree, I think some.
I remember watching it thefirst time and being like, oh,
that looks really hard.
And you know, I was part of theway through my journey, but not
not really that far in, and I'msomebody that if you tell me I
can't do something, then I'mgonna do it, just to prove you
wrong.
And I remember this one personand this was another woman which
(27:20):
you know sucks even morehonestly, like it's kind of
shitty.
When was another woman whichyou know it sucks even more
honestly, like it's it's kind ofshitty when, like, another
woman is like coming coming downon you because you're like,
okay, well, we're supposed to beplaying for the same team, but
that's cool.
She told me one time.
She said you're never going tomake it in the industry if you.
Uh, because I was, I was acigarette smoker at the time.
I've been off cigarettes forlike 10 years now, which is
great, but at the time I was acigarette smoker and I passed my
(27:43):
level one and two with asmoker's palette Wow.
And she said to me you're nevergoing to make it in the swine
industry.
And I said, okay.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
She told you you're never going to make it in the
cigarette world.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah Well, let me call my friend Marlboro.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
There are so many, so many Psalms.
Who still smoke?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Exactly, exactly, and it's just really wild to see
how much goes into it and howmuch that we have all
individually put into it.
When I was studying for mylevel two, I lived in my own
apartment.
I had wine maps from Wine Follyon every bit of wall in my
living room and I would pull mycouch off of the wall and I
(28:23):
would look at the wall while Iwas studying wine.
And that is how.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I like to like the like the in the movies with the
serial killers with a string inthe room.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
It was a little bit Charlie Day.
Yes, it was very much.
It's always sunny inPhiladelphia.
You know I got um, but you knowyou get, you get people talking
down to you all the time andboth, both men and women.
You get, uh, older people,younger people and they're like,
uh, I remember months ago nowbut people will be like, oh,
(28:54):
you're the psalm.
Yeah, yes, question mark are we?
Are we only speaking inquestions right now?
Because I can do that too andyou know I have six brothers, so
I'm I'm pretty tough when itcomes down to it and, like I
said, I started in sports barsso you're also in the bar
business.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
You aren't in restaurants, you are in bars
total difference when it comesto clientele and what you have
to do.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Oh yeah, I'm ready for it now you guys are.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
You guys are talking about your, your growth and how
you came up this and it'samazing, it's great and
everybody listening to it isjust probably wanting to hear
more.
So they're going to track thatdown right, but what I see is a
group of people, includingyourself, Casey, that we have
all came up kind of in the sametime frame a little bit.
We all kind of grew in the sametype of area, right.
So I'm looking at it I think Iwas telling you this earlier,
(29:38):
but I'm looking at it like youladies are like the ghost of
Christmas, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
He has this analogy for the three of you, so I can't
wait for you to hear this.
Are you ready?
This is great right.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
So you guys are like the ghost of the what's the
freaking show, christmas Carolright Christmas Carol, charles
Dickens.
Charles Dickens, we have theghost of the past, oh, god of
the past, because Leanna knowsme from the past.
She knows my craziness.
You've seen me at my craziest.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Oh, you've seen me at my craziest.
Yes, it's fucking amazing.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And we had some.
I mean, we're talking aboutstreet level shit, she's seen me
at my craziest right.
So she's the ghost of Christmaspast right.
She sees me at my mostpassionate, probably most growth
in my most assholest, assholestright.
So I have my driven andambitious, but she also sees me
(30:30):
in my good too, and I've knownyou since when you first started
at the at the main right before.
I think you were still in thewine shop when I met you yeah at
the time in chesapeake, so youcame up from there.
So you in, in, in watching yougrow and then growing with me
here, which has been excitingand amazing.
That's just so fucking cool.
(30:50):
So you're like the ghost of theChristmas present.
You're right here, you're rightnow.
You got it, and me and her goback a ways when you were back
at Press and I knew you fromthen, but yet we've never had
that actual connection.
And I knew you from then, butyet we've never had that actual
connection.
So I'd love to see what you'redoing, because now you're
working with some of myemployees or people or team
downtown.
Peter goes there for the winetasting, so does Chris, I
(31:11):
believe, stops in, and some ofmy people from here Don't?
Some of our guys go there forthe blinds they have yeah, I've
been to her shop too.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
You do too.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
And we went there for a tasting.
So I plan on seeing you a lotmore in the future now because
of this just a relationship, soyou're like the ghost of the
future, right?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So I'm going to wake up and be like is it Christmas
morning?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Go get a fucking goose.
You know what I mean.
There's no goose for sale.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
We'll get some champagne.
Instead, we'll bring the PinotNoir for the pairing.
I rate him in.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Back to the women and how you guys are.
Let me be honest with you.
This is how I look at it.
Ten years ago, 15 years ago, Iwas never a guy based on sexism.
I never really believed in that.
I guess I was just introducedto life differently.
I was in the military, wherewomen were master chiefs or
whatever it may be.
I was never really held down.
(31:59):
My mother was a beast anyway.
My sister is very dominant, soI was always really held down.
My mother was a beast Anyway,my sister's very dominant.
So I was always around strongwomen my aunts, my grandmother
very dominant strong Italianwomen.
And and right now I can tellyou this, as time went on, I
feel when it comes to wine anddoing my thing, I'm a lot more
(32:20):
quick to go directly to a womanSom than I am a man, whether it
be a woman sales rep, a womanjust in a discussion, and this
is truly how I feel, because thepretentiousness is not there.
When I go deal with men, Iwanna smash them.
A lot of the guys I wanna smashbecause a lot of them are
trying to sell you.
Listen to me, they're trying tosell you their opinion yeah and
(32:43):
they're not trying to explain toyou why they're not teaching
you what it is or the reason whythey're thinking the way it is.
They're trying to explain toyou why you should think the way
they are, and I realize thatshit.
So I have a very low tolerancefor that for that period, right?
So a lot of the wine psalms nowthat are, guys typically aren't
.
Whether they're psalms or not,they're very pushy, they're very
(33:05):
demanding.
You got to have it like this,but I don't want that.
I'll tell somebody I want a niceGattianata and they'll bring me
a uh, something, a Sagrantino,because that's what they want
and I'm like but that's not whatI wanted.
I asked you what I wanted here,sell me, sell me what I want
here.
Do you have anything in theback?
And they still want to pushwhat they want, to push and
convince me, whereas women willbe like oh, gattianata, huh,
(33:26):
let's do this.
I have this, this, this andthis.
So I'm a lot more quick to goto a woman.
A woman's palate's a lot moredelicate these days.
It's a lot more.
You know, unless I'm talkingabout I don't want to push all
men down these ways.
I'm not like that either.
But to be honest with you,sitting here with you guys
talking about wine is a lot morecomforting than going to find
(33:46):
three guys to sit here and talkabout wine.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, it would be a different conversation.
It would be a differentconversation.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
It wouldn't be about wine, it would slowly go away
and you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
It gets into that little what you said what you
avoided?
The frat boy party a little bit, yeah Well.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I think that women I mean any industry, so it's not
just wine, so any male-dominatedindustry, construction, medical
, any of those.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Anything.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Women have to work harder to prove themselves, so
therefore they make better teammembers, better employees,
better long-term everything,because you have more to prove.
And even though it has changeda lot in the past 10 years, I
mean I call it digital Darwinism, where we're like we're
advancing faster than we arecapable of keeping up with.
So as a society, we are tryingto process all of this diversity
and inclusion but deep down, westill have our core, you know
wiring, and that's still hard toovercome.
So, like the visceral reactionyou had is very like that's
(34:39):
visceral for a lot of people.
If you say it's a woman,they're like, like they always
there's something that's goingto happen.
But I think that it's helped alot and I mean, listening to you
guys talk, I always felt thesame way.
Um, you know, my mom was verylike chauvinistic towards men.
She's like men really can't doshit like that I can't do.
So I was raised to doeverything a man could do, which
included, like hard everythingso I never that issue.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I don't know women outside of that.
All the women I'm surrounded byare that way.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
We're not normal.
I mean, we know that Maybe youare normal.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
and I don't know, maybe the guys who are bitching
about it are the pussies whoain't normal.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
If guys say that, if guys say and look at me and say
I'm just saying they're here,fuck you.
Yeah, because I don't care.
If you don't like it, comefight me.
You know where to find me justto go online and fight me.
I don't care.
I'm telling you right now.
Speaker 5 (35:25):
I think that this is the most wild show we've had so
far.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So we're fine, you guys are fine no, but the bottom
line is that's how I feel.
I'm not saying it for any otherreason.
It's, it's our show, yeah, andwe invite who we want on the
show, who we feel comfortabletalking to on the show, and
there's not three men sittinghere talking about wine with me
and I don't think that'll everbe the case.
Individually, possibly, but asfar as a panel, I'm not
interested.
I've already heard of it.
(35:56):
You listen to them all anyway.
They just repeat each other.
You got it going on, dude.
All you have to say is it'sfucking good.
You know what?
98.
Everyone shits their pants andgoes home.
End of story.
Because that Now, if a womanwere to say the same thing, how
much more research would have togo into that to believe her?
Or you know what I mean?
I get it.
I get it and I would probablybelieve her first, just because
(36:18):
you have to feel you work for it.
So you're going to.
So it's not going to be a falseass bullshit.
People got to have respect andpride in that and I don't think
they understand that.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I think we need to talk about the money aspect of
this too.
Is there still a lot ofdiscrepancies that you guys see
in the in the industry betweenmale and female Psalms?
Speaker 4 (36:35):
in far as pay and currently.
Thank you very much, but I meanin general, like overall.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I mean, what do you, what have you seen?
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Yeah, absolutely the last job that I held.
I was managing and also the SOM.
The next person that got hiredafter me, which was a male, was
20,000, paid 20,000 dollars ayear more and they didn't even
have the same credentials.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Wow.
That was that was interesting.
Yeah, that's a kick in the ass.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I just don't, I cannot fathom it.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
It's sad.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
I can't fathom it.
I understand what you guys aresaying and I hear it, but I've
always had a hard time graspingthis because I've never been
exposed to it and I look into itand I just don't fucking
understand it.
If you know what you're doingand you know what you're talking
about, what is the problem here?
I don't get it how somebody canmake such a.
It pisses me off.
I don't get it.
I'm sorry, I don't get it.
I never.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Currently I get paid more because I'm a woman but I'm
self-employed.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
But you own your job, so you took a different path.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I mean you, you're tasting.
Me and Bethany work togetheroften, pretty much every weekend
, on doing something.
As far as the specials andcoming together with wine doing
a tasting, we have a really nicewine dinner coming up here two,
three weeks October 29th,october 29th, we have a huge
Plump Jack Cade wine dinner.
It's going to be really nice.
So we have the privilege oftalking to each other and
feeding each other off of ourpassion.
(38:02):
Right, I love wine, but I lovefood more.
She loves food but loves winemore.
Am I safe saying yeah, okay, sotogether with that, combination
, we come up with some shit.
Speaker 5 (38:13):
Do you ever miss that ?
Oh, every day.
Yeah, I miss the collaboration.
I miss working with food as aretailer.
I get to send people home withtheir bottles and I always tell
them take pictures.
You know, I want to see wheremy babies end up, but in the
restaurant world you get to pourit for them at the table and
watch the bite-sip interactionsand their eyes kind of widen a
(38:34):
little bit and their jaw dropsand you know you can see them
sink a little bit and I missthose experiences.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
And working with a chef to taste the flavors and go
over it.
I miss those experiences andworking with a chef to taste the
flavors and go over it.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
Yeah, and the collaboration of just
integrating flavors and not onlythe food making the wine better
and the wine making the foodbetter, but also the chef making
the saum better and the saummaking the chef better.
We are forced to hone in ourskills more when we collaborate
with other people that are in asimilar field, that are just as
talented, and a knife sharpens aknife kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Exactly so, speaking of Bethany, cause she's here we
have a huge.
We have a really goodconnection when it comes to the
food and wine.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
And I can say this right here, right now, that that
you have helped me educate mypalate, or, um, not so much, not
so much educated, but test it,bring it to places.
I wouldn't, because I want tomake sure that I can produce
something that she's going to beexcited about, and it also
excites me to get somethinggoing and I'll, I'll, we'll just
go off of description and thenshe'll come back in the middle
(39:30):
of me cooking my special.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Sometimes you'll bring taste this with that.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Taste it with it now taste it with it now, and I'll
be, you know, and I'm sorewarded by it because hand in
the pot, like here I'll justfeed it to you, here you're
because, you know, an hour intoservice, you know 13 specials
sold already.
I'm finally tasting it with itand I'm like oh my god, thank
you, it worked.
Not only did it work, but itworked way better than we
thought yeah and then I'll sayno, you taste this yeah, get
(39:55):
that, get that over here this isdemi with that and she'll be
like all right, we're fuckingdoing it and it's a great time
it's it's instant reward and Ialways think about that with
your position as far as being inthat type of shop.
But you ever want to come andhang out with a chef, you can
just be in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Come hang out with us and we can do a collab like
that.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
It would be a lot of fun, and that goes for all you
guys.
I think it would be wonderfulwhen, beautifully, with that,
nice wine, everything, I knew itas soon as I walked in.
I'm like all right, I love it,I love the stories, I love
everything.
Tell me what we should do aboutum, is there any way we can get
?
We said at the beginning ofthis show, kind of beginning,
(40:33):
how no one walked into this jobknowing it was a job.
Right, how does that happen?
Where we could make it that wayand where do you think it could
go from there?
Right, you get to the levelwhere you almost hit the top of
where you can be, right.
So what?
What about?
Wine is going to go into thefuture?
You know what's going to comeback, what's going to go around.
Give me like each, you give melike two minutes of what you
(40:54):
think of how you can get itgoing.
Can you bring younger womeninto it?
It's not all about women either.
I sound like I'm bashing dudes.
I'm fucking, surely not.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
No, you're empowering women Right, but I'm not
bashing dudes.
Nobody's going to hate you forthat.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Look, I got this thing.
I went in just to have fundoing it and I did it and I'm
not going to go any further withit because I cannot compete
with you guys.
My passion is in that kitchen.
I love wine, I drink wine.
I need to know enough about itbecause I own a lot of it and I
want to sell it and I want todrink and compare it.
So I did what I had to do.
So I can't bash men who aregoing further than me, but I
(41:28):
definitely ain't going to bashthe women who have gone further
than me.
That's crazy.
So what do you think couldhappen?
Young girls coming in, youngpeople coming in, how do they go
after the wine industry withouthaving to learn about it by
mistake?
Speaker 4 (41:43):
after the wine industry, without having to
learn about it by mistake.
Well, we actually have beenhosting classes here with the
teams from both locations to beable to further their studies.
So I teach classes on Tuesdaysfor those pursuing their exams
or who want to further theireducation.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
And it's not just a normal class.
You're doing a phenomenal job.
This is a bang-up class.
This is a really good.
This is basically a miniseminar that you're doing
Correct.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
But for people not in the area, you can always go to
your local restaurants, find thegood places and ask I send them
to Kira.
A lot and shops, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I send them to Kira.
Crystal Shad's also aphenomenal person who W's out of
her shop.
So for those who are not in theindustry, there's now shops who
are actually taking up thatresponsibility, because there's
a lot of complexity doingtastings in busy restaurants, of
(42:34):
having to take seats out of thedining room.
Put those in, establishtastings, and it will.
We'll probably be having someon the patio coming up in the
next year, which is actuallybeing built right now, which is
funny.
But I think as a SOM we'refocused on expanding sales in
the restaurant.
So that comes from educatingthe staff themselves, and it's
(42:57):
really interesting we're havingthis conversation about women in
wine, because all of the peoplein my class are male.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
All of them.
There's no other females rightnow.
All right, ladies, so you'vegot to show up at your local
wine shop.
Start drinking.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
But not only are they males in her class, they're
males with a rate of success.
So they started with nothing,meaning a credential, and
they're all at least level oneright now.
Most of them and the ones whoaren't are going and, with your
help, on your blinds at yourshop that we send them to or she
sends them to.
I absolutely agree with them,and I talk to Peter and Chris
about this a lot.
You guys are putting somethingtogether that is going to
(43:34):
benefit this area and that's whyI started this conversation up
by saying you guys are some ofthe most important people in the
wine industry, because you'reactually giving back to it and
if anything were to happen toyou tomorrow morning, you can
say I did my part.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
You know what I'm saying.
I think the biggestconversation over females versus
male psalms is really, honestly, because we've had to like
fight this.
Fight not only for theeducation but also to
overcompensate for this kind ofidea that we don't know enough
when we have the credentials.
It's like a double-edged sword.
(44:06):
You're like dealing with twofactors at one time.
I cannot tell you the amount ofpeople who've compared me to
another male psalm in the areaor like, oh, did you study under
him?
Do you know him?
Or I was like no, I've donethis path.
Oh, well, he's the best.
And it's like well, who is thebest?
We're all.
We all have the samecredentials on paper.
(44:27):
We've had more experience inthe years than others, or some
more than others, which I willalways give credit to, but it's,
I think, for me as an approachfor a psalm is like we still
have our own palates and we allhave our own sales technique and
we all have our way of likepresenting wine to people.
(44:49):
I always have come from abackground of community.
You, you can't build a songwithout community.
You like all of your exams andeverything that you do are
self-paid.
For a self-study.
There's no like you don't go tocollege and study wine in a lot
of the industry raising.
So it's all self-study, it'sall self like and we will mess
(45:09):
up because it's like does thiswork, does this not work?
And especially in a smallerarea where there's a less like
sums per capita, you're reachingto outside cities, bringing it
in and also facing this likebringing this new idea to a
restaurant that even here, likeI've never, I've never had a
(45:40):
sommelier before Like what do wedo?
I don't want to, I don't wantto talk to you, I'm intimidated,
I'm like no, no, no, this isabout hospitality and this is
about making you have a greatexperience.
It's many vacation from yourday.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, I think you need to step out of your comfort
zone, to learn more about wineanyways, and go to nicer places.
And it is intimidating, it is,it's different, it can be it's
in all different languages.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
It comes in every shape and size.
There's so many factors.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Making someone comfortable is the key.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
It is.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
That's the key.
Don't make them feel bad forwhat they don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Don't make them feel stupid.
It's like your first day in thegym.
You don't want it to be bad.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
What do you say to?
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Well, I was just going to say we need, I want to
get feedback from all of thembefore we run out of time, so
just on the industry advice topeople who are coming up, what
you think they should try and doand where they could reach out.
Speaker 5 (46:30):
Yeah, exciting, that's always been the mission
statement of vino culture is thepeople I'm employing honestly
have generally no winecredentials, and I want to train
someone up.
It's a lot easier thanuntraining bad habits, uh, in
terms of, like elitist,pretentious culture in in wine.
And so, um, the first generalmanager I hired, she's now a
certified sommelier.
She was zero wine industryexperience.
Um, the second general manager,um, she went from level one to
(46:52):
now a certified sommelier.
And all of the women who work Ionly actually have female staff
um, uh, who work part-time,honestly, really had no
experience in wine, and nowthey're learning and studying
and growing, and so I think thekey is to get rid of the
scarcity mindset of like, oh, ifthere's another female som out
there, that means I'm not asimportant or I'm not as special.
(47:13):
We need to get rid of that.
It's not a scarcity game, it'sa collaboration game, and if we
all can get over the scarcitymindset and learn to collaborate
together, then that's whereit's at.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah, and what's your ?
We can all be SOM Barbie.
We need a SOM Barbie we don'thave that.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Okay, we have three of them right here.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
It's not child friendly, it's not child we're
still promoting alcohol.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
It's fine, everything is fine.
Well, you?
Speaker 3 (47:42):
know and uh, on the side of like coming down to
other people's level, is it's?
I find it very important and Iactually have a social media
platform where I do a little bitof, uh, wine education on there
.
Well, and there's a lot of wineeducators on social media like
TikTok, instagram, whatever.
And I think that promotesaccessibility.
And I think that's a reallyimportant thing too, because
(48:04):
when you, you know, go intoBarnes and Noble or a bookstore
and you're like, okay, I want tobuy a wine book because I want
to start learning about wine,you're facing like the same,
looking at cookbooks, you'refacing a wall of books and
you're like, oh, okay, what do Ichoose?
And so I think, having thoselittle moments of accessibility,
of community because, likeBethany was saying, like it's a
(48:27):
community, it's not and, tony, Iknow you said earlier that it's
competition, but I don'tpersonally look at it that way.
I look at it as this is a groupof women that I can learn
something from.
This is a group of people I canlearn something from and
together we can grow and buildthat wine culture and wine
industry.
And Kira has done a great jobwith, you know, culture, like
(48:48):
really making a mark in downtownNorfolk.
You've done a great job outhere really making a mark in
downtown Norfolk.
You've done a great job outhere really making a mark and
you're starting to see peoplereally get interested in wine
again.
And I know, like this, theyounger generation isn't
drinking as much.
You know, alcohol isn't reallya thing for a lot of the younger
generation.
But then when you startbringing it in to talk about how
(49:09):
you know a glass of winedoesn't have to be going out for
you know 10 shots of tequila atthe end of the night, it's not
the same thing.
Like you said, this is the lowkey show.
Yeah, this is our much lowerkey.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
We're not drinking tequila on the show.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
But, yeah but it is a different, it is a different is
culture.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
I mean, that's what it is.
So it does bring people, levelsthem up a little bit, but yeah,
I appreciate all theirperspectives.
But yeah, I appreciate alltheir perspectives.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
It's a beautiful thing.
So one last question for you,daily driver, what are you
drinking?
Speaker 4 (49:38):
My nickname started at the first restaurant I worked
at.
It's Bubbles man.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Bubbles, one in particular.
Speaker 4 (49:44):
Anything that's from the area of champagne and not a
Prosecco.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
That's your daily driver.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
I do, I drink champagne.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
It is.
You're right about that.
I know that about you.
That's true Daily driver.
Speaker 5 (49:54):
So I'm currently not drinking at all.
Right now I'm hardcore training, so electrolytes and
pre-workout mix.
But, if I were to drink, if youwere Some Italian varietal that
I've never heard of before,just to try a new thing.
That would be what I love it.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Daily driver for you.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
This is literally the toughest question you've asked
me so far.
Like, oh God, you know, Iactually do drink a lot of
Virginia wine right now.
I am really proud of.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
I am so proud of Virginia.
There's nothing wrong with thatit comes so far, so just coming
into the season, kind of likehitting the Petit Mansang and
the Cab Franc quite, quite a bit.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
I just picked up some of that Dogwood and Thistle.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yes, that's such a beautiful label too, because
it's the collaboration ofsomeone from Virginia and
someone from Scotland, andthat's where the Dogwood and
Thistle label comes from.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
It's such a beautiful product.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Amazing.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (50:44):
Oh, I drink anything.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Me, I'm going Nebbiolo all day long.
I'm the most accepting parenthere.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
I love all my children.
I'm the most accepting parenthere.
I love all my children.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
I'm fine yeah, I'm a Nebbiolo freak all day long.
Typically, a Barolo would be mydaily.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
I'm the one bartender on the panel so I just drink
liquor, so I'm the worst onehere.
We can get together for tequilalater.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
I'm going to end this by saying this, because we are
running out of time.
It's been amazing having youladies here.
Really want to look forward todoing something more, maybe a
collaboration, something likethat.
We can do that and record it,film it, do something live do
some tastings.
Some tastings.
I really want to get out thereand get this going out there
more to to really show you showthese people, what you really
are?
I think so.
I don't.
I think a conversation is justa little tiny facet of the very
(51:40):
important to let it know.
You know what I mean?
Um, like just the taste.
I have two daughters and I justhope that women like you can
empower them to do what theyneed to do, whether it be wine
or whatever it is they're doing.
Um, I'm, I'm very, I'mimpressed, I'm intrigued, I'm,
uh, inspired.
So I'm saying thatwholeheartedly and honestly.
I'm gonna, like I said, I'mfucking surrounded here, so
better watch what I say.
But anyway, thank you forcoming on the show.
I really appreciate anythingclosing for you, casey.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
No, I just say actually for all the people who
are listening.
If you want to reach out andlearn more, I'm sure all of
these women would love to giveyou advice, help you out, being,
you know, listening ear.
So do you want to telleverybody where they can find
you online?
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah, I have a.
I'm mostly on TikTok, but it'llbe a, and it's also like pop
culture and wine, because Ithink that's like, like I said,
another way to kind of come downto people's level, but at
Traveling Booze Hound, so youcan find me Traveling Booze
Hound.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Traveling Booze Hound , I love it.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
I go on a lot of road trips to wineries.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
What do you got there At Vinoculture, wineshop At
Vinoculture.
Speaker 5 (52:34):
Wineshop, that's your plug.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Come check you out now, bethany.
Speaker 4 (52:38):
Mine's just my name at Bethany G Morris.
It's on Instagram, but otherthan that you'll find me here at
Luce Downtown or Luce Granbyand Luce Secundo.
That's where I'm mostly atGranby and Lucia Secundo.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
That's where I'm mostly at.
So if you want a hands-onexperience with Bethany, come in
here, check her out, let her doher thing and pay attention to
these women coming up in thewine world, because I am, I
definitely am.
I don't think this is going tobe the last time we have a-.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Oh no, it's not.
I think this is an amazingrepresentation.
We'll put everything below foreverybody that wants to find you
guys and cheers to just a bunchof bad-ass women, bad-ass women
had me settled down.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
You guys had me settled today.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
Calm today.
I appreciate it.
Calm Cheers, no really.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Honestly Ciao for now .
Speaker 4 (53:20):
As we say, drink more wine, all right.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
Drink more.
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