Hooked

A smutty romance adaptation of a beloved children's classic... Are we ruining your childhood memories or improving them with this weeks pick -Emily McIntire's Hooked

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is Smutty Side Up, where in each episode we deep dive into a popular or not so popular

(00:15):
book in the romance world and all the subgenres that encompasses.
We look at everything from the tropes to the characters to weird euphemisms for genitalia
and tell you whether we think it's worth a read.
We're not here to kink shame or yuck anyone's yum.
These are just our opinions and sometimes we even disagree with ourselves.
Content Warning.

(00:35):
This is an explicit podcast.
If you are easily offended or have modest sensibilities, please listen at your own discretion.
If you are my father, brother, father-in-law, brother-in-law, identify as a father to me
or have ever called me like a sister to you, please turn this off immediately.
So sit back, let a candle and let's metaphorically crack the spine in this week's book.

(00:57):
Before we start, you might want to know who you're talking to.
I'm Alexis, a single foster mom.
Somehow I found myself deeply embedded in all things book talk.
I've read way too many romance novels and my low key obsessive tendencies mean I am incapable
of DNF-ing anything.
And I'm Ricky, a mom of two boys and gluten-free bakery owner.
Do I have time to read?
No.
Do I do it anyway?
Yes.

(01:17):
I have strong and harsh opinions, made harsher by my complete lack of sleep, and I apologize
in advance for offending you.
Hello.
Hi, Alexis.
Hi, Ricky.
How's it going?
It's good.
How are you?
I'm okay.
I am dying a tiny bit.
I don't know if you can hear it in my voice, but I have the world worst cold.

(01:37):
I have taken all of the Sudafed to sound less terrible.
But it's the season.
Me too.
I'm just getting over it.
Yeah.
I have a pretty bad cough, so hopefully you'll be able to edit out all my clearing of my
throats and everything else that's disgusting that's going to happen.
I feel like Phoebe from Friends when she got her sexy voice.

(01:58):
You know that episode?
I do.
That's amazing.
I'm not going to sing for you because I don't sound nearly as good, but that's how I feel.
Well, you know, we're in it.
It's the struggle of the tiny humans.
I feel like when I didn't have kids, I was not as ever as sick.
As soon as you have tiny ones running around and going to school, they collect all the

(02:20):
germs and bring them home as gifts.
Yeah, I genuinely thought that I had the best immune system.
I never got sick as an adult.
And then I had babies and oh my god, I have had hand, foot, and mouth twice.
Yeah.
It is the worst thing I've ever experienced in my life.
I fainted both times.

(02:41):
Oh my god.
I did not know that.
Yeah.
Like, got up, thought I was okay, walked downstairs and just fainted in my kitchen.
Yeah, no.
They're lovey, but they're little germ machines.
Yeah, daycare is disgusting.
Yeah, and they also don't know it's not okay to like shove their germy, germy hands in
your face, mouth, eyes.
Grayson licks everything.

(03:02):
Like he licks everything.
I don't know what it is about him.
The other day I saw him lick a fence.
I have never been so disgusted.
Yeah.
I get it.
You're just like, what is the obsession?
I can't.
I have to say things like it's not food, it doesn't belong in your mouth.

(03:22):
It's also like my son refuses to eat healthy food, which would help with the immune system.
So he's like living off of like made good snacks and chicken nuggets.
It's not that surprising that we're all like that.
I don't know.
I feel like even when the little one here takes like all the green smoothies, we still

(03:44):
come home with a runny nose and then want to like love on you and give you all the boogers
in your face.
So but that makes me feel a little bit better.
Anyway, all right, you ready?
I'm ready.
Let's get let's rock into this.
So last week I hinted at the book we would be discussing today.
This one has had me run the gamut with how I feel about it.

(04:07):
I have done the whole array of emotions with this book.
Today we're going to talk about Hooked by Emily McIntyre.
Very excited.
Have you heard of this book?
I have absolutely heard.
Do you know anything about it?
I have heard about this book.
This is a like dark romance retelling of Peter Pan.
It has come up multiple times.
You very early on staked a claim on this book.

(04:30):
So I have purposefully left it off of my TBR not because I wasn't interested in reading
it but because you know you had dibs.
Very excited to dive in.
I have feelings.
Yes.
I have feelings.
Which you've alluded to many times.
You're like, I can't wait for us to talk about this book.
Yeah, because every day my opinion changes.
And you said that you were going to read it but you held off.

(04:51):
So when we're done with this whole spiel, I'm going to ask you again if you still want
to read this book.
I'm excited to hear what you have to say.
But as you said, Hooked is the first in the Never After book series.
It's a compilation of books based on alternate realities of Disney stories and one that is
about the Wizard of Oz, which isn't Disney but you know, same shit.

(05:11):
The series is made up of Hooked, Scarred, Wretched, Twisted, Crossed, and Hext.
So you told me a little bit about your knowledge on the book already.
But now I want to know what your feelings are around this theme.
This theme of taking Disney and turning it into a smudgy romance situation.
I've been thinking about this a lot because I think it kind of goes back to what we talked

(05:34):
about in our first episode, which is fan fiction.
And I have been trying to like decipher what it was I liked about fan fiction because what
I like, I really enjoyed taking characters that I knew, but then they would put them
in completely different situations.
Like they didn't have the same sort of life experience.
They just were the same kind of core person.

(05:54):
And so you had a sense of how they would react.
And so you've set up characters and you don't have to do as much of that building, the character
building, because people come in with a preconceived notion of who these characters are.
So it's cool because you can subvert that in some places, but you don't have to spend
so much time teaching your audience or your readers how somebody reacts or sees the world

(06:18):
because they've watched, you know, 38 episodes of this character doing that.
Having said that, taking beloved children's tales and turning it into like a little bit
of smutty porn, like I'm not sure I haven't done it before.
So we'll see.
So I'm with you.
And I'm not sure when I'm going to mention this next thing, but I'll say I have a really

(06:42):
hard time with the Disney romance subgenre.
I grew up on Disney movies.
I still love them.
They're a big nostalgic part of my childhood.
You know, I wanted nothing more than to voice a Disney princess as a child.
It's still on my list, but, you know, chances are getting lower each day.
And I'm really excited to watch Disney movies with my kids.

(07:04):
I can't wait.
I personally do not want to read about Belle getting double-teamed by the Beast and Gaston,
though I hear he is roughly the size of a barge.
And here's the thing.
I'm not here to shame anyone if this is what you're into.
You do you.
I prefer to think of my Disney characters more like Barbie dolls having like smooth plastic

(07:29):
nothing between their legs.
Now the other part of me is wondering you and I met because we were both working for
a live action children's TV production company.
And you still work for that company.
Yes.
How much of that plays into this idea that like kids content should remain specifically

(07:52):
kids content and that line should maybe like not be crossed.
I mean, I definitely think that is part of it for me.
But I also know how quickly it does not stay kids content.
Like I think we have talked about the like weird deep tumblers about the odd squad characters
like shipping tiny humans.

(08:16):
Like now they're all 1820.
And so it's slightly less weird.
But when you come across a video like shipping six year old Millie Davis and like nine year
old Sean Tyre, it was not it was not OK.
It was so disturbing to me because they're not they're not shipping them as 18 and 20
year olds now.
They're still looking at pictures of them when they were six and nine years old.

(08:39):
Yeah.
No, it's deeply, deeply disturbing.
And I mean, I think we should clarify like the shows that I work on that we were working
on together are live action kids shows with kid characters.
So it's slightly different than I think like adult characters.
Just the Disney thing.
Yeah, I guess you're right.

(09:00):
On principle, I don't actually yeah.
On principle, I don't have a problem like reading about Bell's like Stockholm syndrome
and how she falls in love with the beast.
That doesn't bug me.
Honestly, it's just this idea that I'm so connected to the movies and what they were
for me as a child.
Like I have vivid memories of sitting in my living room watching the Little Mermaid and

(09:23):
Cinderella and whatever like back to back to back.
And so when I'm reading these books, if they stay too true to form, I'm picturing myself
as a kid watching what I'm reading on a screen.
And that's where it's like this is a problem.
So maybe there's like something I'm very OK.

(09:44):
Yeah, I'm very OK owning this.
This is probably a Ricky specific or maybe like a handful of other people feel this way.
So I just wanted to preface it with that.
That's where I started with the genre.
So you and I talked about this like way back when we decided to do this, we talked about
how we were going to have to branch out into different subgenres that are outside of our

(10:08):
comfort zone.
And I specifically said to you that there were going to be two or three that I was going
to have a really hard time with this being one.
Like not long after that conversation, I was scrolling through audibles plus catalog because
I ran out of credits.
And this book was included in that.
So on the way, I decided to give it a go.

(10:29):
So here we are.
I have both read and listened to the audio book.
So we're going to touch a little bit on both.
My first pass of this book, I just could not get past the Peter Pan connection.
I think I was almost halfway through.
And by that point, I had not paid enough attention to what was happening.
I had no clue what was going on in the book.

(10:50):
But I was finally past the like, oh, it's a Disney movie thing.
In rereading it and listening to the audio book, I found that I actually liked it more
and more.
And I think it was because the more I got into this book specifically, the more I was
able to separate it from the Disney movie.
Personally, I wish that Emily McIntyre had written this exact book but without the Peter

(11:15):
Pan references.
But I understand that that is actually an allure for some people.
So I read a bunch of reviews on this book.
And there were a lot of people that were actually disappointed that it wasn't more connected
to Peter Pan.
So saying it right at the top, I understand that this is just my personal opinion on this

(11:37):
and that other people feel the complete opposite.
To that, I say, you're fucking weird.
No, I'm just kidding.
To that, I say, great.
This is just my opinion on it.
So take that for what it's worth.
Hell, me tearing this apart might make somebody else be like, I really want to read that.
But I'm actually not going to tear it apart because I ended up really liking it.

(11:58):
The audiobook was narrated by Felicity Monroe and Rupert Hawthorne.
This book was done in dual narration, which means each chapter was narrated by one of
the narrators, regardless of which characters were present in the chapter.
This style is not my favorite for heteronormative romance novels.
This is also something I have gone on extensive tears with with you.

(12:21):
I have a really hard time listening to a man imitate a female orgasm and vice versa.
Not my thing.
So what's weird is that until you pointed it out, it never had bothered me.
I had listened to a lot of dual POV audiobooks and sometimes I didn't love the voice, but

(12:44):
it was never like I never had that cringe moment.
And then you pointed it out and I still am totally fine with it, but I am aware of it
in a way that I never was before.
So welcome audience.
You're about to have the glass broken and now it's going to be something you hear.
But if I have to suffer through it, so do you.
It's just not my thing.

(13:06):
I'm sure some people like yourself, like you said, you don't care for me.
It really took me out of the moment.
Maybe it was that the first couple of books I listened to, maybe the voice actor wasn't
great at portraying the opposite sex in that role.
I don't know.
I think if I was a voice actor and you asked me to imitate a male orgasm, I would have

(13:26):
a really fucking hard time and I don't think anybody would buy it.
So I imagine for some reason I feel like trying to imitate a female orgasm is actually a lot
harder.
Maybe I don't know why I feel that way, but maybe that's why it makes me uncomfortable.
I don't know.
I don't mind it in LGBTQ plus romance novels.

(13:46):
They're the same gender.
Even though the voice doesn't match what it's supposed to be, it's easier for me to buy
it too.
So yeah, I prefer a duet.
Rupert Hawthorne's English accent for James was so on point.
It worked so well for me.
The rest of the characters, though, they all felt like just caricatures of a Disney character.

(14:12):
The way Disney makes side characters over the top goofy or over the top weird, that's
kind of what their voices were.
And Felicity, it was kind of the same thing.
Her narration for Wendy was fine, but her Boston accent for the side characters was
so overdone, borderline offensive to people who are from Massachusetts.

(14:36):
I'm not sure because I'm not from Massachusetts, but maybe it was very strange.
I really loved both of them in the main roles, not so much in the side characters.
It doesn't really matter because the main two are the ones that end up together in the
end, so it's really whatever.
You take the shit with the good stuff.
How much side character are we getting as a percentage?

(14:59):
There's a lot of side characters.
Most of them are only in it for small amounts.
So it's not like you're hearing the same goofy, weird voice a lot, but you're getting
that one and then that one and then that one and then that one.
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter because they're not the ones that you really have
to buy into.
But it was strange that I was so in love with the main two characters and the way they were

(15:21):
narrated really wanted to punch a couple of the side ones.
Yeah.
Okay, so I'm going to send you over the cover art as soon as I figure out how.
Here we go.
Okay, so it's a very dark color palette.
We have a shattered clock with a lipstick mark.

(15:44):
It's definitely very intense.
I mean, it's very beautiful in a weird way.
I agree.
I think it is beautiful.
Yeah, it's very evocative.
I love that if you were reading this out in the world, no one would immediately be like,
that is some smut.
Yeah, there's nothing about this that screams smut.

(16:05):
Yeah, no, it's really, really lovely.
I wonder if there's any significance to the time.
What are we pointing at?
It looks like it's 1155.
Is it?
I don't think so.
I think it's the right way up.
Actually, that's not true.
Three?
Yeah, it's not.
Is that five o'clock?
What time is that?

(16:26):
I wanted to say it was six o'clock.
No, because that's one, two, three.
That's a three, no.
Is that a three or is it a V?
For document Roman numerals.
Oh, is it a V?
Yeah, but the one beside it isn't either seven or five.
So I don't know.
Well, this is alternate universe, so maybe their clocks are different.

(16:46):
Maybe.
I never even thought about that.
That's so funny.
We're going to deep dive on this later.
We'll figure it out.
Yeah, that's all I can focus on.
Right?
Okay.
I agree.
I love that it doesn't scream romance novel.
I agree with that.
And I do find it beautiful.
Yeah, it also doesn't scream like Peter Pan.

(17:07):
There is no actual hook.
There is no crocodile illusion.
There's no fairy dust.
No.
It's funny that you say that.
I'm not going to mention this, but she did release, I'm going to see if I can find it,
like limited edition books from her series.
Oh, I love to see that.
I like a good Alts cover while you're doing that because I was going to say I, as we've

(17:31):
discussed, I think before, but made on the podcast, I'm a book dragon.
So I do a lot of reading on Kindle Unlimited, but if I love something and we'll read it
again, I will buy it.
The only caveat to that is if the cover is really ugly, I will not buy it from my bookshelf.
I agree with that.
Okay.
It's not the best photo that I sent you, but this one to me screams more like Peter Pan.

(17:58):
Yeah.
I mean, the, the alt cover is like Big Ben and it's very like London at night and this,
the sprayed edges are beautiful, but like that looks like a pocket watch.
So and it's, that's a darling.
It's really pixelated in my picture, but.
Oh, on the side.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(18:19):
Yeah.
On the spine, on the side, sorry.
Yeah.
So it definitely is more Peter Pan coated.
But you'd have to, you'd have to know Peter Pan to know that that was, but I think the
words hooked and the Big Ben and the bright stars and whatever I feel like it kind of,
you can put two and two together.
It definitely is.
I think it's easier to get there than from the original cover.

(18:39):
I think that one's so beautiful too.
And it's actually like embossed, like on the real one, it's all like embossed in like
the same, like a plastic palette.
It's really beautiful.
I don't have a bookshelf, so I'm not going to buy it, but it's really pretty.
Did I just announce that I don't have a bookshelf on a book podcast?
You did.

(19:00):
That's okay.
I have enough for both of us.
I live in the digital world.
Okay.
So as always, I'm going to give some content warnings right off the top and these are taken
right from Emily McIntyre's website.
Her website is amazing.
Any piece of information you might need or want as the reader, it's all there.
It's easily accessible on her website.

(19:22):
Huge kudos to that.
So we've got explicit sexual scenes, breath play and choking, torture, murder, physical
assault and kidnapping.
So while this is a Disney retelling, it is quite dark.
That is a theme throughout the entire Never After series.
The only trigger warning that's not listed that I probably would have included is implied

(19:45):
sexual abuse of a minor.
It's never really confirmed, but you'll see as we go on in the summary, it's pretty clear.
I think I only talk about one example of that, but it comes up multiple times in the book.
And the other thing is it's considered a dark romance and maybe my opinion or my criteria

(20:06):
for a dark romance is a little bit more specific.
There are dark parts of this book and there are romance parts of this book, but never
do the two meet.
Interesting.
Even when they're talking about breath play.
Yeah.
It's not dark.
I still like the book.
There's still darkness.

(20:26):
There's still romance.
There are definitely dark romances where the romance is dark.
This is not one of those.
So I did find that really interesting and it kind of hit me later on as I was reading
it like a second time and I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting.
Okay.
So as far as tropes go, we've got enemies to lovers, a morally gray hero, revenge plot,

(20:48):
and forbidden love amongst some other smaller ones, but those are the biggest ones.
There are a lot of characters in this book.
As I said, I'm only going to focus here on three of the more important ones.
As we go into the summary, I'm going to mention a whole bunch.
Again, for some reason, there aren't super clear physical descriptions of each of these
characters in the book.
So I'm going to use some references from the other characters in Vaniens.

(21:10):
Are the lack of descriptions, do you think, because we're supposed to have a preconceived
notion of some of these characters?
Probably.
Yeah, probably.
And again, that probably bugs me because I don't want to think of them the way I think
of Disney characters, but yeah, you're probably right.
I'm excited to know who Smea is.
Yeah, yeah.
We get a Smea, don't worry.
So James Berry, a.k.a.

(21:30):
Hook, Wendy bumps into him and notes that her hands land on a solid wall of muscle.
He has high cheekbones and sharp angles, jet black eyebrows and tousled hair.
Together with his mentor, Rue, James runs a criminal enterprise in Boston.
He has no family and has deep-seated trauma from childhood.
He has spent his entire life seeking revenge and he thrives on control and always stays

(21:50):
one step ahead of his enemies.
So I'm giving you a little bit of like their background to here.
Wendy Michaels.
There's very little actually said about Wendy's physical description, so I'm going to read
you James's first impression of Wendy.
My stomach tightens as my gaze trails along her body in a tight blue dress.
Her arms are wrapped around her middle, her eyes darting back and forth between the bouncer

(22:11):
and the cabs that line the street.
Annoyance snaps in my chest with the fact that I can't see her as clearly as I'd like,
but I see her enough to know she looks uncomfortable, innocent, definitely doesn't belong in a place
like this.
And for some reason, that shoots a thrill straight to my cock, making it thicken and
pulse as I imagine all the ways this place could defile her.
First impression, off of a security camera, which I have to say, as a true crime fan,

(22:36):
that is not a very clear camera.
No.
So that was a big reaction from probably a pretty shitty feed.
Pretty shitty feed, yeah.
So Wendy is the daughter of super wealthy businessman Peter Michaels.
She is seeking independence, though she notes that cutting the cord from her father is impossible.
Her mother passed away years ago.
She is sheltered and innocent, but is also the mother figure to her 16-year-old brother

(22:57):
Jonathan.
Wendy grew up closer to her father, but her relationship soured over time as she came
to terms with his negligent treatment of her brother.
Do we have an age?
Sorry, do we have an age on Wendy?
Yeah, Wendy is 20.
And how old is James?
26, I believe.
And in a round?
Okay.
Yeah.
So there's no age gap here.
No, I mean, not really.
I did a little bit of like research to see if other people felt the way I did or like

(23:21):
different opinions, blah, blah, blah.
And I told you that I read some reviews.
And some of the reviews were mentioning that it's an age gap.
And I don't consider six years to be an age gap.
I mean, I think 18 to 24, you would be like, that's an age gap.
Like six years, a little bit younger would be somewhat more significant.

(23:41):
Like someone is 18 is still in high school and someone is 24 is graduating university.
I have friends that were in that relationship and are now married to that person.
I think I think I've told you this because of camp.
Ages are like a weird, nothingness in my world.
Yes.
Which now as a parent, I look back and I'm like, Oh, that's so fucking weird.
But like, yeah, I have friends that were like 16 and dating people that are six years older

(24:04):
than them.
And like, technically, that's illegal.
Yeah.
When I was getting like 20 and 26.
I don't think.
is now as like a 40 year old lady looking back,
being like, ooh, the difference between 20 and 26 is a lot,
but like I wouldn't classify 20 and 26 as an age gap.
Like I assumed, because it was hook,
he was gonna be like at minimum in his 30s.

(24:25):
And you know what?
The way it's written, you can forget that he's 26.
Like their experience levels and like their, you know,
personas, you would assume he's older.
I'm not really sure why the choice was made to make him 26.
If I was writing this,
I probably would have made him older.
Anyway, now I'm like, was he 26?
I'm pretty sure he was.
I'm pretty sure he was.
Anyway, okay.
Peter Michaels, he is a successful businessman

(24:47):
and workaholic, constantly searching for the next big thing
to sink his teeth into,
almost always at the expense of his relationship
with his family.
He was named Forbes top businessman of the year,
five years in a row.
All right.
So before we dive in,
Peter Michaels is obviously our Peter character.
Interesting observation.
Well, I mean, I would assume.
So we might have to confirm or deny.

(25:08):
Okay, we won't get into that.
Well, cause I'm like, if he is, I have a lot of issues.
So I'm like, if they're rivals,
then Hook should be the same age as Peter.
They should be rivals.
Yeah.
So part of my whole like this book though,
it is like technically a Disney retelling.
It doesn't follow the Peter Pan storyline
or whatever at all.
So there actually is no Peter Pan character.

(25:30):
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean, that makes me feel slightly better.
Yeah.
Because honestly, like if I'm going in,
again, I'm not opposed to it.
So I'm down for a Peter Pan romance
where she thinks she's in love with the like,
goofy man child and finds out that she actually likes
the morally gray, like older man, but
Yeah.
I would be down for that.
I was like not ready for that to be her dad.

(25:52):
So I'm glad that that is not the case.
The story is actually really far removed
from the Disney version and arguably
the only similarities are like names and reference points.
So I think that's also what helped me get more
into the book from my perspective.
And it's also what people didn't like about it.
So it really depends why you're coming to this book
in particular.
So we are going to have some fun with this.

(26:14):
And every time there's a reference to the original
or Disney Peter Pan, I am going to
bing on my son's xylophone and give a quick interlude.
You ready?
I love it.
All right.
How is it not a bell?
Like how is it not a Peter Pan reference itself?
And every time a bell rings, a fairy gets its wings.

(26:34):
Don't think that I did not look for one
of those hotel bells, like the like thing for assistance.
Yeah, it turns out I do not have one.
And that's a good thing.
If he's sitting there all day, he'd be like, ding, Eli, ding.
Like when I wanted tea and he brought it down for me.
All right.
The prologue opens with James Berry killing his uncle.

(26:55):
The original Peter Pan novel was written in 1911
by James M. Berry.
After which he calls his friend and boss Rufus
or Rue to let him know it's done.
Rufio or Rue took over leaving the Lost Boys
when Peter left Neverland.
Rue says, leave the body and he'll take care of it later.

(27:16):
Trigger warning here.
This is what I was talking about when I said
there was some left out trigger warnings.
So James comments that his uncle's mouth is slack
in the same way his uncle used to make James's own mouth.
This is the first instance of that implied abuse.
I'm not going to talk about it again moving forward.
James then finds and smashes his uncle's watch
as the ticking triggers something in him.

(27:36):
And he notes as he's leaving
that he has no more family left.
The crocodile that ate Hook's hand in Peter Pan
also swallowed an alarm clock at some point.
So Hook can hear the ticking clock
as the crocodile gets closer to him
causing fear and paranoia.
Are we over this game yet?
I like that you're jinging us.
Yeah, I have to let you know that we have entered a new

(27:58):
a sidebar and now we are leaving the sidebar.
Okay, the book then flash forwards to today.
Wendy has moved to Massachusetts from Florida
to be with her workaholic dad and introverted brother
and took a job at a local coffee shop,
though she does not need the money.
Her father is the owner of the biggest airline
in the Western Hemisphere, Neve Air Land.
If you can dream it, we can fly you there.

(28:20):
Neve Air Land, Neverland.
The most self-explanatory reference ever.
There might be one that is a little bit more
self-explanatory and don't worry, I still do the things.
Her work friend Angie invites her out to a local bar,
the Jolly Roger.
Wendy being a rule follower doesn't have a fake ID
and after being made fun of by Angie's friend Maria,
she's peer pressured to go and use Angie's sister's ID.

(28:42):
All of this is for the sole purpose of Maria wanting
to get with her mega crush, a man named Hook.
The Jolly Roger is Captain Hook's pirate ship.
I have to say also, as a Canadian, I am always baffled
when the drinking age comes up in American books
because it's like a 20 year old using a fake ID
is just so strange, even though it's only like 21,
is only two years older than our legal drinking age.

(29:05):
Yeah, it just feels weird.
All right, James, AKA Hook, operates his and Rue's
criminal enterprise out of the Jolly Roger.
They sell a drug called Pixie Dust.
Do I even need to say this one?
Pixie Dust is a magical powder that allows people to fly.
James and Rue are having a meeting in the back office
at the JR when Rue lets James know that a businessman

(29:26):
named Peter Michaels has requested a meeting
to expand their criminal enterprise.
Little does Rue know, James has a vendetta
against Peter Michaels, but reluctantly agrees
that this could be good as a partnership,
all while figuring out how to enact his revenge
now that Peter Michaels is in town.
As this conversation goes on,
Starkey, an employee, comes to tell James and Rue
that three girls, Mariah, Angie, and Wendy,

(29:48):
are trying to get in using fake IDs.
James spots Wendy on the camera,
though does not know that she's Peter and Michael's daughter,
but is so infatuated by her that he tells Starkey
to let them in.
This is where we got that physical description
from the beginning.
He then scares the living shit out of Starkey
by brandishing his famous weapon of choice,
his hooked knife, and Starkey runs off.
Rue says something along the lines of,

(30:08):
this is why you're not coming to the meeting
with Peter Michaels, and this is when it is revealed
for the first time that James is hooked.
Starkey is first mate on the Jolly Roger.
Meanwhile in the bar, the girls are all of a sudden
getting the star treatment,
booth and bottles all night long.
Mariah's keeping her eyes peeled for her dream man
and Wendy is trying to butter her up to be less
of an outsider.

(30:29):
Wendy excuses herself to use the bathroom
where she runs into James,
and this is where we get her physical description of him.
James now realizes she is Wendy Michaels,
daughter of Peter Michaels,
his pride and joy whom he lovingly refers to as my shadow.
Peter Pan lost his shadow and chases it around Wendy
in her siblings bedroom.
This realization gets James so hot and bothered

(30:50):
that he calls one of the cocktail waitresses Moira,
who he periodically hooked up with,
into his office to suck his dick.
He goes with his usual roughness,
but Moira flinches when he grabs her neck
as she has recently gotten a tattoo.
She tries to be super seductive and he puts her in her place.
After their brief hookup,
Rue lets James know that the meeting
what he was supposed to have with Peter Michaels

(31:10):
fell through when Peter sent a lackey in his place,
which is a major sign of disrespect in Rue's eyes.
The next day, Wendy is working a shift on her own
and is overwhelmed.
A very rude customer makes matters worse by berating her
when all of a sudden James shows up,
scares the customer and the customer goes running off.
The only reason I mention this
is because of the next chapter.
Chapter six is a trigger warning chapter.

(31:31):
It is one of the grossest things I've ever read to date.
I'm not gonna go into details here,
but if you are squeamish, just skip chapter six.
It doesn't add anything to the story or the plot in any way.
The rude customer is tortured to death by James
in a cellar in the basement of the JR.
That's what you'd be missing.
Multiple times throughout the book,
we see Wendy trying to convince her dad
to spend more time at home.
She calls her dad and in their conversation,

(31:52):
she hears his assistant, Tina Bell, in the background.
Tina Bell, thinker Bell.
Peter also back tracks on his earlier promise to John
that he can be homeschooled
and instead says that he is now sending John
to a boarding school.
Though futile, Wendy tries to convince him
to change his mind, but he refuses.
Frustrated by her father's choices and priorities

(32:14):
and a little hopeful that she'll run into James,
Wendy accepts an invite from Angie
to go to the Jolly Roger.
In a conversation between James and Rue,
we start to get bits and pieces from James's past.
James's inner monologue tells us
that he grew up wealthy in England
and he implies that Peter is somehow responsible
for the death of his mother and father
and that seducing Wendy is now part of his plan
to torture Peter.

(32:35):
It's in this conversation that James gives Rue
a birthday gift, a lighter inscribed with the words
straight on till morning.
We get another flashback to when James was a teenager.
Following the death of his parents,
he was sent to the States to live with his uncle,
a powerful politician with a dark, sick secret.
One night, James witnessed Rue
threatening his uncle and was so taken
by the stranger's ability to make his uncle look small

(32:55):
that he followed him.
Rue took James under his wing and says,
you've already come this far,
you might as well keep going.
James says, till when?
And Rue responds, straight on till morning.
The second start to the right and straight on till morning
is how you fly to Neverland.
James is starting to suspect
that someone is trying to take over his territory
and one of his low level runners might be a rat.

(33:17):
He's able to get a little bit of information out of people
as he tortures them,
but all he's really learning is that the new guy
goes by Kroc, which is what his uncle's nickname had been.
And all the people that work for Kroc get a matching tattoo.
Wendy, Angie, and Maria show up at the JR
and James comes over to flirt with Wendy.
Maria desperately tries to get his attention

(33:38):
and it doesn't work.
Curly the bartender is instructed to give the girls
whatever they'd like on the house
before James is once again called away to another meeting.
Curly is the lost boy who wore the bear costume.
I don't know, he was the emotional one, I loved him.
Wendy apologizes to Maria,
explaining that she didn't know that Hook and James
were the same person,
but Maria just insults Wendy saying things like,

(33:58):
she's surprised that Hook would pick Wendy over Maria.
When it's time to leave, they all get a cab,
but Wendy is stopped by one of James's henchmen
who tells her James doesn't want her to leave.
Normally she would have left anyway,
but after the way Maria made her feel, she chooses to stay.
Wendy's brought to James's office
where she tries to be more forward with him
as she's flirting.
They are interrupted by Rue,
just as shit starts to get good,
and James walks Wendy to a cab

(34:20):
and they agree on going on a date for the next night.
Naturally, James threatens the cab driver.
It's date night.
James brings Wendy, or Wendy Darling,
as he has now nicknamed her in his British ways,
to the tiger Lily,
his yacht that he lives on with his first mates, me.
Me.
Darling is Wendy's last name in the original Peter Pan.

(34:42):
Tiger Lily is the beautiful daughter
of Neverland's indigenous Indian chief
and a loyal friend of Peter Pan.
It's me as Hook's right hand man.
During dinner, James calls her out for faking her smile
and she calls him out for showing off his possessions
instead of who he is as a person.
And for some reason, Wendy then gets up
and sits on James's lap.

(35:03):
So, here we go.
I am now gonna have you do your dry read.
Oh yay, I'm excited.
Let me send this your way.
I press down, rocking forward,
the friction of his length along my slit,
causing tingles to raise through me.
My clit swelling as a rush of wetness seeps from my core.
Moving his hand from my cheek,

(35:24):
he settles both palms on my hips,
guiding my movements as we work up a rhythm,
his lips breaking from mine
to move down the length of my neck.
He bites, sucks, and kisses,
and while I'm sure he's leaving marks,
I can't find any me to care.
Too lost in the way he seems to mold me to fit perfectly
into every single piece of him.
You taste so much better than I imagined
he groaned into my skin.

(35:46):
My head falls back,
allowing him more access to the expanse of my throat.
Do me a favor, pet.
Anything, I stutter out.
Grind that sweet little pussy on me
until you make a mess all over my lap.
All right.
Oh.
I mean, it's good.
There are no bad euphemisms for genitalia so far,
so I'm down.
How do we feel about the nickname pet?
I think if he wasn't British,

(36:07):
I would have a problem with it.
Why do I feel the exact same way?
What is it about that?
I don't know.
I don't understand it.
No.
If it was coming out of an American mouth
or a Canadian mouth,
I would be like, oh, fuck all the way off.
All the way off.
But like, I can hear it in a British accent.
I would melt.
I'm just like, okay.
Like just fucking melt.
Yeah.

(36:27):
That is so hilarious.
All right.
I guess British men can just pull certain things off.
I mean, they can.
The word cunt.
Yeah, that's true.
I love the word cunt.
I know.
It's not like socially appropriate here.
I know, but I love calling someone a cunt.
Yeah.
Just as a small sidebar,

(36:48):
sometimes when someone is particularly awful,
my sister and I will refer to them as a thunder cunt.
And it is my favorite thing.
I like that.
I do like that sounds gnarly.
Yeah.
I don't want to know from a thunder cunt.
Yeah.
It is as good as motherfucker,
just in terms of being like a very satisfying thing to say.
It's probably better.
It might be.
Motherfucker is overused.

(37:09):
Yeah.
Also, people take pride in fucking mothers.
That's true.
I don't know that that many people would take pride
in a thunderous cunt.
I guess it depends.
I like my thunder thighs.
I don't know how I feel about a thunder cunt.
Amazing.
OK, while we're here, while we're at the cold read,
can we talk about spice level in general?
Or do you're getting that later?

(37:29):
Yeah.
No, let's do it.
You can interrupt me at any time.
Before we do that.
I've been hoping for you to jump in.
Before we do that, I am bringing something new to the table.
I cannot take credit for this.
But we have a new spice rating system.
We do.
Somebody that I work with, Mr. JJ Johnson,

(37:50):
has pitched us this.
And I'm a little bit in love.
There are many ways to rate spice.
The very common is the chili pepper rating,
like a one through five chili peppers.
We will have finger warnings.
One.
Please go on.
I'll have to thank JJ for this.
One finger is very light spice.

(38:14):
Five fingers is a whole fist.
I think it's great.
That's a great story.
I laughed so hard that I caused myself to have a coughing fit.
And I feel like my uterus is cramping from laughing so hard.
So you're going to have to give me a minute
while I wiggle out of my position here.
And that is like nothing has ever been more fitting

(38:35):
than a uterus cramping after you mentioned fisting.
No.
Jesus.
Way to go, JJ.
Thank you for that.
But I fucking love it.
That is wonderful.
So sorry.
Yeah.
So fist being the most smuddiest, hottest five chilies,
right?
And one being basically a YA novel.

(38:56):
No, no.
Zero would be YA novel where we don't go with it.
The door closes.
Fade to black is a one spice.
It's a zero.
One spice is like a little bit, but not a lot.
And yes.
So where are we landing with hooks?
Probably a three, maybe like a 3.5.
There's some good smut in here.

(39:17):
OK.
I'm trying to think now, though.
I mean, we just read a little.
And that's the first one.
That's what they start off with.
Yeah, I'd say 3.5.
Yeah.
OK.
I like that.
The breath play and the hand necklaces make it a little more,
maybe?
Maybe a 3.75?
I don't know.
Oh my god.
Are we getting into hand necklaces later?
Because that is something I had never heard
until I got into these books.
And now I was just like, why has no one ever

(39:38):
made their hand a necklace on my neck?
Like, how is that a thing?
I don't know.
I literally there's a.
Now you know that it's something you're into now.
We can explore it separately.
We can explore.
Do a little offsite research.
Yeah.
When I said we, did I mean like you and I?
Like what's going on?
I don't think so.
I don't think that your husband is interested in you having
like some kind of wide choose moment.

(40:00):
Yeah.
I've never asked.
I mean.
I will say breath play and hand necklaces, choking, whatever.
It's definitely something that is talked about in this book.
It's not something I'm going to focus on with this book,
because I think other books make that more of like a more
of like a real topic of discussion in their books.
This one comes up two or three times.

(40:21):
It's definitely something she's into.
But I think there's ones that are almost more like educational
in the way they're written.
And I think that would be a better jumping off point.
But for anyone who doesn't know,
hand necklace is choking play.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, and it can be everything from just a light,
light amount, like in a possessive kind of way.
Yeah.
Right up to, oh, you're almost passing out.

(40:44):
Yeah.
So they do, they do go all the way up to the end with,
with this book.
But again, it's not talked about in a way that,
it's not talked about in a way that I would like make that a focus
of like this review.
But it definitely, if you're into, if you're into that shit,
it is in this book.
Definitely.
Amazing.
So yeah, so that was their first sexual encounter.
Literally right after that, James asks her how she makes

(41:05):
herself come and she confesses that she holds her breath
and likes to be choked.
So he complies.
So there it is.
The first one happens right after that.
I kind of like that it's her kink.
Yeah.
It is her kink, absolutely.
And so there's a little bit about like,
she didn't really know that that was what she was into.
She just knew that whenever she would get herself off,
she would have to hold her breath to get herself off.

(41:27):
And so it kind of all clicks for her in the moment.
That's what she likes.
That's so interesting.
Yeah, but they don't go into it enough in my opinion.
Like to explore that.
They kind of just like, oh, that's what she's into
and that's what they do.
All right.
He's a giver.
He wants to give her what she wants.
He is a giver, that's for sure.
He's also hard for like 90% of this book.
So he's also a taker.

(41:47):
Well, he's also 26.
Yeah, he's young and needs therapy.
All right, so somewhere around here,
so somewhere around here, we learned that Sme
was living on the streets when James took him in
and offered him a job in exchange for his loyalty.
In the morning, oh, I don't know if I said this.
After they hook up, they fall asleep together.

(42:09):
So Wendy stays over.
In the morning, Wendy wakes up, finds James,
and makes a joke about being kidnapped
and developing Stockholm syndrome.
Hang on to that.
Store that somewhere safe.
Tuck that piece of information away.
Later that day, Rue and James meet with Peter and Tina
to discuss business, and James fears
that Peter might recognize him.
You see, James' father was in business with Peter,

(42:30):
and when James was a child, his family traveled to the US
where he met Peter, Wendy, John, who was an infant
at the time, and their mother.
He remembers flying home on a Nev-Air land private plane
when his father opened a letter from Peter Michaels
right before the plane crashed.
James was the sole survivor.
Okay.
I also want to say it's really hard to say Nev-Air land

(42:51):
without just saying Neverland.
Like, Neverland.
So I'm very crisp on it.
Also, can we just go,
I would never get on a plane called Neverland.
Like, Nev-Airland, any version of this thing
doesn't want to come back to the ground, not my jam.
Like, nope.
I never thought about that.

(43:12):
I really never thought about that.
They go up, they don't come down.
It's almost like it should have been called Nav-Air land.
Like, navigating Aaron's land.
No, I mean, it wouldn't be a Peter Pan reference.
I feel like it would still be close enough, though.
People would get it.
This is like on the nose, though.
Anyway, Wendy learns that her father did not tell John
about the boarding school, as he had promised.
He had called him instead of telling him in person

(43:33):
that he was sending him to boarding school,
and this broke her heart.
Part of James and Rue's enterprise
is that they provide security to businesses
in exchange for a monthly fee, similar to the mafia.
Mafia at the mob?
I mean, I think all those...
They collect money from local businesses.
In exchange for protection.
Yeah, in exchange for not killing.
So when James goes to collect from a local shop,
he learns that somebody had already been there to collect.

(43:55):
So he believes that it's the same person
that's trying to steal his turf.
As his relationship with Wendy progresses,
he realizes he no longer wants to hurt her in any way,
and acknowledges that he will inevitably hurt her
when he kills her father.
Since Peter bailed on John,
James offers to drive Wendy and John to his boarding school,
and John and James begin to bond.
This decision makes him late for his meeting
with Rue and Peter,

(44:16):
and by the time he gets there, he realizes he's too late.
Rue has been killed by Peter,
and James begins to suspect
that Wendy might have been involved.
Okay.
Wendy is home alone on her birthday
when suddenly James appears.
He covers her mouth and holds a knife to her face,
now fully believing that Wendy and her father
were working together,
he injects her with something and kidnaps her.
Wendy wakes up, chained in a cellar

(44:38):
in the basement of the JR.
It is there that James finally tells her about the pixie dust.
She denies that she's working for anyone,
and is overall just super confused.
James decides to take Wendy to a fancy gala
that he knows Peter will be attending,
and when Wendy refuses to go with him,
he threatens to involve John,
which he would never actually do, but the threat works.
James now also reveals that he knew all along

(44:59):
who Wendy was and who her father was,
and this devastates Wendy.
With no other choice, Wendy puts on the dress
and diamond choker that James gave her,
and gets ready to be his perfect date.
Okay.
It's at this dinner that James starts to doubt
his own belief that Wendy was working with her father.
During the cocktail hour at the event,
the police commissioner comes over to James

(45:19):
and asks where Rue is.
James implies that Rue had died,
but without saying that, he says Rue has retired.
As they're walking away, Wendy turns to James
and says something along the lines of,
you know, it's nice that Rue got to retire.
This comment confuses James as he believes
that Wendy would have known that Rue had been killed.
When they're seated for dinner,
Peter, Michaels, and his date, Tina Bell,

(45:40):
are seated at the same table as James and Wendy.
This was obviously orchestrated by James.
Peter is shocked to see Wendy at this event,
and even more shocked to see her
on the arms of James Berry.
Wendy has now been kidnapped for days,
and this whole time she thought that her father
would have been out searching for her
and trying to get her back somehow,
but it's at this dinner that she realizes
that Peter had no idea she was missing at all.

(46:01):
This makes her lash out.
James senses that her anger is real and is confused,
because if Wendy and Peter had been working together,
Peter would have known that she had been kidnapped
and he would have been trying to get her back.
Following the dinner, it is revealed that the JR
had been burned to the ground in an arson attack.
James decides to keep Wendy on his yacht,
even though he believes that she was no longer involved
in Rue's death.

(46:22):
They fall asleep in silence next to each other
in his bedroom.
Thoughts are anything so far?
I mean, things are getting complicated.
Certainly.
We are now gonna enter the hot plot spot.
Oh, yay, we had to queue up our sound.
Okay, ready?
This is the hot plot spot.
If you want to read this book with no spoilers,

(46:44):
now is your chance to leave.
Oh, you're sticking around.
Do you remember your safe word?
Good girl.
Okay, so we're now entering the part of our podcast
that we are going to spoil the books.
So if you are interested in reading this book
without the spoilers, please exit now.

(47:06):
If you wanna continue on this adventure with us,
here we go.
We left off with, they went to the gala,
they fell asleep next to each other.
James does not believe that Wendy is involved in Rue's death.
Can I ask a question?
They're on his yacht.
Are they out at sea or are they docked?
No, they're docked.

(47:26):
Like, could she wake up and sneak off?
They're docked.
Okay, so she's choosing to stay.
I think she knows that she doesn't have the option to leave.
Gotcha.
She could try.
But she's not making any attempts.
There's no attempt to sneak off.
Yeah, there's no attempt, but she's not free yet.
So the next morning, James leaves Wendy locked in the bedroom
and runs into Smee in the kitchen.

(47:48):
Smee is playing with a pocket watch he bought at a pawn shop
and James completely loses his shit
when he hears the ticking and demands that Smee get rid of it.
He then tells Smee that Wendy is not to leave the yacht.
So there's that.
But he also just locked her in the bedroom.
So she shouldn't be leaving anyway.
And he goes to the lagoon, a strip club he owns
that now serves as his headquarters

(48:09):
in the wake of the JR arson.
The lagoon is in reference to Mermaid Lagoon.
When Wendy wakes up, she decides to go sit on the dock
by the water.
Smee not realizing that she's right there by the yacht.
He calls James to let him know that she's gone.
James comes back in a blaze of fury
and drags her back onto the yacht

(48:30):
where they promptly have hot, aggressive, angry sex.
As you do.
Of course.
James has to go back to the lagoon,
but he doesn't feel that he can leave Wendy
so he takes her with him.
While there, he comes the closest he's ever been
to figuring out who Crock is,
but one of his henchmen jumps the gun
and kills the man they're interrogating
before he can give them any names.

(48:51):
Before his death, the man did reveal
that the tattoo everyone gets is of a crocodile
wrapped around a pocket watch.
Okay.
This sends James into a tailspin.
While this is going down, Moira and Curly
are hanging in an office with Wendy
and Moira's telling Wendy that Hook spent the night
with her last night like he always used to

(49:12):
and Wendy believes her.
Wendy is able to calm down James
and James finally admits his feelings for Wendy.
James tells her about the plane crash
that killed his parents.
He asks her to tell him that she belongs to him,
but to say it only because she means it
and not just to please him.
And she does.
She is no longer kidnapped.
Wendy is free, but she chooses to stay on the Tiger Lily.

(49:34):
There it is.
Yeah, it's sweet.
So she's not mad still about the Moira?
Like we've moved past that or we're just...
You know what's interesting?
She, even in the moment, like she was upset,
but her words were more like James did leave last night
to do an errand or to do something.
And it did involve Moira.

(49:54):
They did not hook up,
but after he finished his errand,
he came back to his yacht and hooked up with Wendy.
Wendy, so when Moira convinces Wendy
that in that timeframe, her and James fucked,
Wendy is more pissed that he then came home and fucked her too.
Gotcha.

(50:14):
So she's not upset that he like cheated, it's that...
Yeah, she was like, ew, like that's disgusting.
His fingers then like were inside of me.
Like that was what like made her,
she wasn't like happy about the fact that they hooked up,
but she didn't react to it the way
I think most romance novels
would have had the main female character react.
She wasn't like jealous.
No, and like at no point have they like,

(50:36):
I guess like saying like I'm yours is kind of like exclusive,
but it wasn't like, I don't know, officially talks about,
but I actually really liked that.
Well, she was his prisoner.
Well, yes, that would make one exclusive.
Yeah.
She was exclusive to him for sure.
Yeah, there's no option to not.
Yeah.
But yeah, I, I, I agreed that that was, she wasn't,

(50:58):
it was an interesting way to write that, I think.
I liked it.
Yeah.
Okay, so James has his most trusted men
search all his employees for the tattoo of the crocodile
in the pocket watch and three men are brought into a cellar
to be tortured for information.
Eventually they break and it is revealed that Moira,
the bitchy waitress is the woman who was recruiting for Crock.

(51:19):
And she was trying to, you know, mess with their vibes,
tell the girl he was into.
Yep.
She should just be in a bitch.
After weeks of not speaking to her brother,
Wendy finally hears from John.
And we learned here that James had actually been calling John
every day to check in on him at boarding school.
Oh.
John tells Wendy that their dad wanted both of them to meet,

(51:39):
meet with him at the mansion to talk.
So Wendy reluctantly agrees,
mostly so that she can see John, but she agrees.
She heads off to the mansion,
but she doesn't see anybody there.
Then Tina appears and hits Wendy on the head
with a vase knocking her unconscious.
Okay, go take.
That's a,
She's also high on pixie dust when she does this, but.
That's neither here nor there.

(51:59):
I'm pretty sure pixie dust is just cocaine, by the way,
in case anyone was concerned.
James is at the lagoon when Moira arrives.
He tackles her demanding information.
James firmly believes Crock is Peter
and Moira laughs in his face.
She then informs James that Crock has went.
James is able to use the GPS tracker hidden in the diamond
choker that he made Wendy wear to track her down

(52:21):
and finds out that she is at Cannibal Cove.
The same place where Rue was murdered.
When James.
So pause for one second.
That fancy diamond choker that she wears to the gala.
She's just still wearing it.
Yeah.
So he said to her, like,
don't, don't even think about taking this off.
And then she was too scared to ask if he meant, like,
just for the night or like ever.
So she just like never took it off, which.

(52:42):
Can you imagine walking around in like jeans,
a T-shirt and a diamond choker?
No, can you imagine sleeping in a diamond choker?
No.
No, there, I mean, listen,
there are definitely parts of this where I'm like,
that just doesn't make any sense.
And like, I mean, I feel like we shouldn't hang our hat
on the diamond choker part when there's like a place called
Cannibal Cove that we might want to be concerned about.

(53:03):
I guess we should be more concerned with that.
But I was just like,
I'm the like impractical jewelry things to put a tracker in.
Like a delicate bracelet.
And not the first time that it's been like
a expensive piece of jewelry.
Yeah.
Like the first time in this book,
but not the first time in romance novels,
but that's been a thing.
Anywho, she's still wearing it.
All right, sorry.
Continue Cannibal Cove.

(53:24):
It's fine.
When James arrives with Starkey and two other henchmen,
they find Wendy tied to a chair.
Peter then comes out of the shadows and basically admits
that he is willing to sacrifice his daughter,
but it's not what he wants to do.
It's then that Smee steps out and reveals
that he in fact is croc.
And not only that, he's also James' cousin.
Dun dun dun.

(53:46):
What?
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
This next part we are gonna do in a lightning round.
Okay.
Okay.
He switches sides and holds the gun to Wendy's head
at the same time that James threatens to kill Smee.
Smee explains that he grew up with his drug addicted mother
and only found his father when he was 18.
Around that time, his father was planning to kick James
out of the house and have Smee move in,

(54:07):
but had a change of heart when Ruth threatened his life.
Then James killed his father,
so in retaliation, Smee will now kill Wendy.
Peter then steps in shooting both Starkey and Smee
and then tells James that John is actually his half brother.
Wendy's mother had an affair with James' father,
resulting in John.
Peter revealed that he knew about the affair in the letter
that James' father read right before the plane crashed.
This is when Wendy realizes that her father

(54:28):
likely killed her mother as well.
Peter now puts a gun to James' head while Tina restrains Wendy,
but Wendy gets free, grabs Starkey's gun and shoots Tina.
Wendy decides she can't let her dad kill James,
so she kills her dad.
Did you get all that?
Okay.
I think so.
There was a lot happening in that.
Before we review it, I have one more line.
Okay.
James and Wendy go on to live happily ever after

(54:50):
on the Tiger Lily with their two kids
and their brother John.
Okay.
I mean, here's the first reaction,
the first thing I want to talk about.
Having a shared sibling with the person you love.
Like, yikes.
Yikes.
Yes, let's discuss that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your brother-in-lies, also your brother.
Yeah.
Ikky.
And for no real reason.

(55:10):
I don't know why.
I know technically they're not doing anything wrong,
but like all of a sudden it feels a little...
Yeah, no, I get it.
They are not related, but you know, it's weird.
They share a sibling.
Yeah.
I also feel like at this point,
had they made, I know we really only talk about it
the one time, had they made the sexual abuse,
what we're assuming is sexual abuse
from James's uncle to James, more prevalent,

(55:34):
it would have been a really great time to be like,
I saved your ass, man.
Like you could have been in a really terrible situation,
but instead you weren't.
So it is more prevalent in the book.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I actually feel the same way,
but I guess the way they're trying to spin this
is that the uncle wouldn't have done it to his own son.
Okay.
He's fine with doing it to his nephew.

(55:54):
Maybe he hates his nephew because he hated his brother.
So like I already feel like I've been talking for two hours,
so I didn't want to like read you the entire book word
for word, but like, yeah, there's a little bit more to that.
I am definitely, even now knowing how it ends,
I am going to read this, like I am interested, I am in it.
Yeah, right?
Even just that last paragraph,
everything it fucking hits the fan.

(56:15):
Yeah, I do like a good like final showdown.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's written really well too,
and everyone just kind of steps in from nowhere,
and you never know who's side anybody's on,
and like it was just wild.
The whole thing was just insane, but it's cool.
When we get the like flash forward,
is that like an epilogue?
Like all of a sudden it's two years later or something?

(56:37):
Yes.
It honestly, there's like a little bit more after
she kills her dad,
but like it just wasn't worth even like talking about.
It's just like sort of filler.
And then epilogue is like,
they find out that they were pregnant
when all of this shit went down.
So they now have one and one more on the way,
and like John decided to move on to the tiger Lily with them,
and they're all just living happily ever after.

(56:58):
Just living their best lives.
I feel, I mean, he didn't know,
so it's still got the nice motives.
I was like, the fact that he was bonding with her brother
was so lovely.
I know.
Knowing now that he had an actual connection,
and it was also his brother,
I was like, maybe it's less about her.
Oh yeah, no, it definitely wasn't.
I don't, I really don't think it was intended to be written
that he was doing it for her.
Oh, just if he like had a connection with him.

(57:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, and John being so introverted
and not having a connection with his dad,
like it's like the first person aside from Wendy
that he's like bonded with on that level.
Gotcha.
And so we are like,
Peter definitely made the plane crash.
Yes.
Do we ever get into how a tiny person
survives a plane crash when no one else does?

(57:41):
Not really.
No.
Okay.
We know that he has like scars on his abdomen and body.
Yeah.
That like he hides from people typically,
but not Wendy, but we don't really find out
how he survived the plane crash.
Okay.
We do find out that Peter killed Wendy's mother as well.
Excellent.
Yeah.
I mean, Peter, not a great guy.
No.
Shocking.

(58:01):
A shocking.
Yeah.
All right.
I mean, I'm into it.
Yeah.
I mean, we've talked about this before I think like,
I like a dark romance,
but I actually like this version
where it's dark and there's romance.
When the two are like a super combined,
it's not always my favorite thing.
Like there are some where they're combined and I'm into it,
but like, I think there's one that I read where like,

(58:23):
he's getting her evicted from her apartment
and fired from her job.
So she's beholden to him.
And I was just like, Oh God, no, no, thank you.
Yeah.
No, they definitely,
they definitely walk a fine line for me.
Yeah.
What you just described would not be,
would not be in my interests.
No, but it is.
That's like plotting.
I'm not really into the plotting.

(58:44):
That is exactly what it is.
But you know what there's never a trigger warning for?
Plotting.
It's like, he's more really gray.
And I was like, what shade?
I need some shading here
because I am fine with like pseudo consensual stocking,
but...
Yeah, oh me too.
And I know which book you're referring to.
Books that you're referring to.

(59:07):
But yeah, no, I mean, this is really fun.
I'm excited for this.
I think I also though would read something
that was more Peter Pan, like more of a like grown up
retelling of that story.
Like her shunning her like age appropriate boyfriend
for his much older rival.

(59:27):
Hmm, interesting.
So it would depend how much more Peter Pan-esque it was.
Gotcha.
You know, if Peter Pan is walking around in green tights.
No, I don't want tights.
It's a no.
I don't want actual fairies.
Fair, okay.
But I would like there to be more like more like connections.
Yeah, this was really not.

(59:48):
And I think the whole series is like this.
Where it's connected in reference only
as opposed to story.
And again, that worked for me because I mean,
I did have to get like past a bunch of it,
but like I will say I've read one more book in this series
because I wanted to see if that was consistent.
And I actually liked the other one more.

(01:00:11):
So I'm going to talk about that one at some point too.
Are they, but that one is even less connected?
Are they connected to each other?
Roots.
Or they're only connected in that they're all kind of like,
no, tangential retellings of.
The only thing I can say is the two that I've read
are not connected to each other.
There was no references made from one to the other.
I don't know if that's the same going forward

(01:00:32):
because there's a lot of them,
but the two that I read don't even take place
in the same timeframe.
Okay.
But yeah, the second one, the one that I read
aside from this one, if you read it like without knowing,
the thing about this one, if I read this without somebody
telling me that it's a Peter Pan retelling or whatever,
I would obviously put two and two together.
There's too much in it for me to be like, how is this not

(01:00:54):
connected? Too many dings, too many Xaliphon dings.
Yeah, too many dings.
The other one, I don't think I would get there ever.
Okay. I'm excited.
I want to know what the other one is.
So I'm excited for you to pull that one.
It was good. It was really good.
I will do that one later on at some point,
but yeah, really good.
There are books that are written way more closely

(01:01:16):
to the original Disney stories.
Like I mean taking place in the same landscape
as the Disney stories.
So that goes from the extreme, the side that we're on now
to the other side that I just won't even touch
because I don't know that I'd have very much nice things
to say about them.
No, you know what I don't ever want?
I don't want a sex scene where there's like a talking

(01:01:39):
chandelier or talking Andalufra.
What if it's Chip?
Worse. So much worse.
Oh, that's so much worse.
So much worse.
He's a kid.
I mean guys, I am.
Okay. What if it's between Lumiere and...
No, but let's go back to Chip for a second because...
Oh, fuck. What's the clock's name?
Oh, clock's Cogsworth? Cogsworth.

(01:01:59):
Cogsworth. The best name ever.
The best name ever.
But like guys, how did Chip exist?
Because was Chip, were they all just frozen at the age
they were when they were turned into anthropomorphized objects?
Because how was there a child?
That was there a tiny child?
I think they were frozen in time.
I have to believe that because now you're messing with my head.
Yeah, I actually think about it more than it's okay.

(01:02:21):
It comes up in my brain sometimes, which is more than it shows.
I often wish I had a wardrobe like the one from Beauty and the Beast
where she just like opens up and she's like,
you should wear this.
And I'm like, okay, thanks, ma'am.
Because I like don't know how to dress myself in the morning.
But I love that that's your reference and not like shares magic computer closet from Clueless.
You're like, I was...

(01:02:41):
Oh, that was even better. Are you kidding? Hang on.
I thought we were talking specifically about Beauty and the Beast.
If we are going to talk about Clueless,
and also if we're going to talk about Clueless,
we should tie in the fact that she naries her step brother.
That's true. It comes full circle.
It does come full circle.
Weird, almost family ties.
That movie is so fucking good.

(01:03:01):
Yeah.
I think for like a whole year, I quoted, you're a virgin who can't drive to everyone.
Totally out of context.
Brittany Murphy just fucking nailing it.
My favorite.
Have you ever seen the interview she's giving where she's like,
what I said that I was a virgin.
I was a virgin that couldn't drive.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I also really loved when they're like playing tennis or whatever.

(01:03:24):
And the kind of mean girl is like,
my doctor says I can't have balls flying at my face.
And then Cher goes, well, there goes your social life.
But I'm ching.
Yeah.
So good. God, that movie is excellent.
Really good.
Really good.
Anyway, OK, so this book, back to the one we're actually talking about today,
it got 3.8 out of 5 stars on Goodreads with 400,000 ratings.

(01:03:48):
And I have a couple reviews that I found that I thought were worth reading.
Maya says, if there's one thing that hooked did,
it's understand the assignment. This man.
Dee said, I'd let hook choke me any day.
OK.
Same girl, same.
E said, I want to refund and I didn't even pay for this book.
And Annabella said, this is maybe the worst book I've ever read.

(01:04:12):
If you have an enemy or someone who has truly wronged you,
send them this book.
It felt like it was written by a bot who is given only the Twilight series
and access to Elon Musk's Twitter account.
So with that,
I mean, first of all, do with it what you want.
Not accurate, but at the very least, it's a bot that was also given Peter Pan.
Yeah, I mean, how is that not mentioned?

(01:04:33):
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I don't I don't follow Elon Musk on Twitter.
I don't know how often he is talking about you're right.
And so maybe maybe that's where the Peter Pan references come in.
But you know, I wanted to level the playing field with two really amazing
and two not so amazing. Yeah.
So it is very interesting.
I can ask you quite you're not on Goodreads.
Are you like you don't post on.

(01:04:54):
OK, I love Goodreads.
I track all of my like my TBR on there, what I've read, what I'm going to read.
Shocking. I know I rate I very rarely leave a review
and nothing could ever convince me to like leave a terrible review
because I'm with you.

(01:05:15):
Like what does it take to be that person to just be like, I don't know,
fuck all the way off, like give this to your worst enemy.
You go write a book.
And now I don't I don't think I've ever left a negative review.
And obviously, everyone knows, like I'm talking about like generally,
not just on Goodreads, but everyone knows that like you're only going to get
really amazing reviews or really shitty reviews ever.

(01:05:37):
But I'm one of those people that's like Google reviews for small businesses
are so fucking important. Yeah.
And if you leave a shitty review for a small business,
like it takes them months of work to repair that.
And they may have just been having like a bad day.
Like you could just call the business and talk to someone or talk to the manager.
Or you were having a bad day.
Sure. But like just talk to them directly.

(01:05:59):
Yeah. I'm with you.
I think it's interesting that this many people have read this book.
Yeah. Well, I think it blew up 400,000.
It blew up on TikTok. Yeah.
So that's the other thing. I'm not really on book talk,
which is hilarious because we originally wanted to name this podcast book talk.
Yeah. From what I've seen, though, like a lot of the reviews were
hinting that like TikTok sent me here.

(01:06:22):
So I think I think it blew up on on book talk there,
which is why there's so many.
But I think like when I did Verity, there was like 3 million reviews.
Yeah, that's crazy.
I know. Do you get anything in exchange for like putting reviews up on?
I think if you become like a followed reviewer,
you could become an advanced copy reader

(01:06:43):
because people are sent advanced copies to put up reviews.
Interesting. So there is an incentive there, for sure.
Yeah. I'm not going to go and say anything mean about anything on Goodreads.
But if you want to send me an advanced copy of your book,
I will absolutely finish it and talk about it here.
Hell yeah.
Because that's, I mean, yes, absolutely.
1000%.

(01:07:04):
I love that.
Use those connections that you get.
Well, it's like I feel like I can like have more of a conversation
because I can always find something.
Oh, for sure.
Usually.
Yeah. I mean, I just like to like, you know,
level it out at the end there.
I really liked this book.
It only took me two or three tries to like get into it.
But once I did, really liked it so much so that I gave this the next one a shot.

(01:07:25):
And I actually liked that one even more.
So I mean, from my perspective, it's actually very much worth it.
Actually, were you ever into Peter Pan?
I mean, not like obsessively into Peter Pan, but I did like I liked the
I liked the movie when I was younger and have watched, you know, some of the retellings.
There's a like slightly problematic screenwriter,

(01:07:45):
but on a podcast, I mean, maybe 15 years ago,
he pitched his dark and gritty reboot of Peter Pan.
And I really loved it.
Interesting.
Yeah.
But we're going to not talk about that on this because he's like super problematic.
That's fine.
There's problematic aspects of the actual Peter Pan.
Yeah. There's that too.
I actually dressed up as Peter Pan for Halloween one year.

(01:08:07):
Oh my God.
Which is their photo.
I think it's hilarious because, yes, I will send you a photo.
But I think it's really funny because I was never that into Peter Pan.
So I don't have a clue how this costume came to be.
And I'm too old for it to have been like my parents choice.
Are you sure?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm pretty sure.
Did your friend group like decide like were you are you one of many

(01:08:29):
characters from that?
You know what?
I know I went out for Halloween with friends, but I only have photos of just
me because my parents were big fans of the solo shoot.
Yeah.
I mean, I I've seen the headshots.
I have seen Dancing Baby Ricky.
It's my favorite thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
It was a good costume, though.
I mean, I think my dad made the costume and I had like a bubble sword.

(01:08:51):
Do they have any memory of this?
I don't know. I can ask.
You should ask and find out like my dad should not be listening to this.
So he should not come to me with an answer.
But mom, if you're listening, please reach out.
Let me know.
I'm like, was there a tinkerbell that met you to go trick or treat?
I really don't remember.
There were a lot of times though where we went for Halloween with like my friends
and like we were all dressed as like.

(01:09:12):
Something that could have been a group costume and just wasn't.
OK.
So there was one year that like I went as a beanie baby and my best friend went
as baby spice, but like no other spice girls.
OK.
So she just looked like a girl in like a with pigtails.
Yeah, which wasn't that weird for her.
So just regular Wednesday.
I like that you were a beanie baby.

(01:09:33):
Oh, it was a great costume.
I got so much candy, so much candy.
I'm sure you were warm.
I was so warm.
I was like, it was like before the trend of wearing the
onesies for Halloween, but I was wearing a onesie.
Yeah.
And like my mom made me the T.Y. tag.
That's amazing.
It was a great costume.
I got so much candy.
And this was like, like start of the millennium where like beanie babies,

(01:09:54):
people still thought they were going to be worth a lot of money.
Turns out not so much.
Before we wrap up, I actually have a correction from last week that I forgot to
say at the beginning of the podcast.
Oh, OK, let's hear it.
I'm not an idiot.
I am able to do math.
I don't know what was in my brain, but I said that the 80s were 50 years ago.

(01:10:14):
I was born in the 80s.
I turned 40.
I know better.
Like I am aware.
I love that I didn't correct you.
I didn't even notice.
Yeah.
No, I was editing the episode and I was just like that math does not check out
even a little.
Like it's not even like I could have been like the early 80s are 15.

(01:10:35):
Nope.
Mm-mm.
No.
At most 44.
That's so funny.
So I did not notice that you did that.
Just and also we never claimed that math was going to be a thing on this podcast.
No, no, not at all.
And I'm sure I've said other stupid things.
You asked me the age difference of James and Wendy earlier and it was 20 to 26 and
it took me a beat.

(01:10:56):
Yeah, it's OK.
But I just, yeah, I needed to be like, this one feels a little like a little too
glaring not to say something.
So I will almost always come to the next episode with corrections.
So we should just make that like an official part of the podcast.
We are terrible affectionists in some way and need to at least own our terrible mistakes.

(01:11:20):
Yes.
It's solely to prove to ourselves that we're not dumb.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Like we know the meaning of certain words and certain phrases and we use them wrong,
but we know we used them wrong when we realized.
I think that's because when we catch it on each other, we like make jokes because that's
our love language is like calling each other out and being mean.
Yes, I love that though.

(01:11:40):
OK.
I want you to call me out.
That's also when we're the funniest.
So like this podcast is going to suck if you are not being an asshole to me.
Excellent.
All right, Alexis, do you have a trailer for your next week's episode?
I do.
I am very excited for next week's episode.
Being the finance director for the high end sex club he founded with his three best friends

(01:12:01):
may not have been the most natural fit for Zach.
The widowed father of two young girls has his life forever changed when the club's
new young social media manager finds her way into it.
This scorching hot age gap single dad romance will completely alter the way you think of
the word spreadsheet.
Whoa.
Age gap single dad.

(01:12:23):
What did I miss there?
Was the other one?
Age gap single dad.
It's just age gap single dad romance.
Yeah.
Oh my god.
And when I talk age gap, I'm not talking six years.
I hope not.
Not excited over six years.
If it's less than a decade, it doesn't count.
All right.
I'm really looking forward to next week's book.
Amazing.
All right, guys.
If you're excited, tune in next week as we dive into our TBR list.

(01:12:46):
From Stockholm syndrome to high end sex clubs, it will always be served.
Spidey side up.
In today's episode, I reviewed Hooked by Emily McIntyre, published by Source Books.
Copyright 2021 by Emily McIntyre.
The audiobook was narrated by Felicity Monroe and Rupert Hawthorne and was published by
Blackstone.

(01:13:07):
And a huge shout out to Wayne Davis for our hot plot spot narration.