Better Offline CES 2025: Day 5 - Pt. 1 - Better Offline

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
As Media.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to day five of the Better Offline
Consumer Electronics Show Saga. I'm your host edna. I am well, slept,
I ate two meals yesterday. My feet feel great, I

(00:29):
look fantastic. I'm having a hell of a show. But
it's the last day, sadly, but only the last day
of the show. We have today and then we have tomorrow,
a kind of our positive masculinity day. We're getting we're
getting massages, we're having brunch, We're gonna have a wonderful podcast,
can talk about our feelings. It's gonna be amazing. But
today we have an incredible cast with us. To my
left is Edward Graso Junior, my wonderful correspond Hello.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
How's everyone doing.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm great, as I just said, clearly was thinking of
something else. But over to my right, I have the
wonderful Sheilin Low, the debutyta Or and Gadget Shlan.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thank you so much for joining us, Thank you for
having me.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
And to my right David j Roth.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
How you doing, David, I'm good. How are you?

Speaker 4 (01:09):
Oh wait, no, you already said that the only wanted
to't ask?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, yeah, well you were everyone was doing Oh okay, Well,
didn't ask though anyway until now. Yes, So how many
CS is this? Is this for you?

Speaker 1 (01:26):
I've well few enough that I'm not last season as
people who have done this twenty five years. I think
I'm under ten. I think nine or eight.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
That's still a low.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Yeah, that sort of still seems high to me. This
is my first and Edwards first.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh how does it feel?

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Oh so real?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Is that everything you expected? And Moore? I want to
know about Ann Moore. I want to know about.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Most of what I got in terms of expectations setting
was from ed and it was like I kind of
expected it to suck more than it does, okay, like
because he was more or less, you know, trying to
get me. I don't know if it was just that's
how I was just motivated, Like you have no idea
how depraved it is. Like you're going to see things
down there and.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
It's like that's it's a trade show.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
Like, I mean, it still kind of stinks, but there's
it was more normal for the most part, which made
the stuff that was like ridiculous and dystopian pop that
much harder for me.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
I enjoyed it pretty well. Depraved. I'm sorry, yeah, go on,
was there a version of it that was I feel
like it? Okay, this CS is like surprisingly, I feel
like Las Vegas as a city has figured a lot
of it shipped out. Can I swear?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (02:34):
Great?

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Ah? Fuck? Don't do all the swears. Okay, just all right?

Speaker 4 (02:42):
Okay, the brown word, you could say damn but not
you know, but no, no sea words.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
No, yeah, I think that's the one.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, okay, gotcha, So chicken.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
So what do you how do you get like Vegas
has like assimilated this?

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah? So, I mean you can see all the construction happening,
but they've managed to make it so the construction is
not impeding a lot of the getting around, which you
have done in previous years of traffic. I'm sure you know.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
And being at CS is like a double punishment.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Oh god, I don't know why you choose to do
that to yourself, but you did choose to do this
many decisions. The West Hall is beautiful. The fact that
the weather is extremely beautiful this week makes everyone feel
better when they're outside. I've been here when there was
the rain and the snow, and then one year everything

(03:35):
all the power went out and all of the boots
at the same time, and I was on stage doing
like a panel hosting a panel interviewing Sony's like head
of hardware or something, and we were like vamping on
stage for a minute there while the power came back on.
So there's been like cs as baths where like things
haven't been as nice or I I to me, this
has been nicely running fairly.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
So.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
The one thing I will say that worries me about
Las Vegas is for like a solid decade we lost
the flappy guys, the guys who have the cards yes
that they flip together to off for escals. Those guys
disappeared for a long time. But for the first time
since like twenty fourteen, I would say they're they're back,
but there's not many of them.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
They just kind of I saw them when I was
last year, really when I saw you the first time
that we met. Yeah, but they were like outside of
the insurance convention that Jaython had been.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
The right place to be.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, maybe they're just like looking at the people that
are going to see yes, and or like these are
this is not an escort crowd.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, they just they have a meeting beforehand and they
have like an Excel spreadsheet they all work through and like.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
We're really the odds out, let's make it happen during
AVN Again, that's not just no no, no, no no.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Maybe maybe they're like these guys can build their own escorts,
you know, like the robots that we saw this year.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, yeah, that there was a tap hunter washing and
post a narcle about that where it was like the
conversation with the guys about that, and everyone's just like,
I don't, I don't know, man, Like it's just I'll
link to it in the in the thing. But I
do think the tech industry reporters do kind of need
to look at AVM more and kind of broaden out
from this stuff.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
But because as much and I do apologize.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
To female listeners who feels like who said stuff about
being gross a few times on this, but I will
say sex perversion all that is a part of society
and one can be puritanical about it, but that area
needs more coverage. And we've kind of talked about seeing
the various dilldonics manufacturers around here.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
That sounds better when you use the technical terms stiltonics,
advanced tillics, A lot more consonants than you'd expect, right,
But I feel like that is a weirdly left out
part called jet age.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
I think I can't speak for all of the tech media,
but we're Engadget. It's like we've got a prioritize he
has is such a huge show. We've got the krs
of drones and robots. We do cover sex tech like
this year there was the motor Bunny or Motor.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
Fluffy, Motor Bunny power and know uh something powered by
Fluffer I haven't read yet, thank you.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
That was when I went back down to the floor.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
For what I'm writing, it is motor Bunny powered by Fluffy.
And then there's another low Vents is the one that's
across from it. That was the one where they actually
like I was there with a guy's like a producer
for other podcasts like Friends of Ours that we're also
here and has like it's sort of like a running
gag in those podcasts that this guy's life is just

(06:28):
completely feral and like just how to take care of himself.
And I saw him like blush while getting just instructions
on how this thing sinks. With that at the event's
thing the I didn't go to the motor Buddy powered
by Fluffer.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Sure bit just because you know the news there though,
no they're making uh I believe Adel Donn. That's powered
by game control. Well I thought it was a game.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
The game is called fabby Bunny. Yeah, but it's this
sort of thing, like you, there's a limit no one
expects me to do, really grig Journals. I'm a sports
writer and I'm here because there's a fulld out bed
and everything. Ause I enjoy hanging out with my friends.
Also for the podcast, also for the podcast, but the
idea of like having to look someone in the face
while he says like fappy bunny to me, Like just

(07:11):
like it's a normal thing to say to a guy.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
I think, do you think it's it's odd because you're
both men may presumably sis hetero men in the space
same sites, because I covered this from the woman's angle
to your point that like in tech, especially a space
that's not predominantly like friendly to women. You know, you know,
the CTA has been notorious for not wanting to showcase

(07:35):
sex type for women thing. Yeah, so I mean since
the big huhah, I think four or five years ago
Laura to Carlo really went out and said, like, why
are they not allowing us? They restonded our innovation award.
They made a smart vibrator, I believe, and were granted
an innovation award in sort of the health category and

(07:55):
then had it rescinded it like weeks before the show started.
I can't remember how many years christ Yeah, and they
like didn't let them display at the actual show floor era.
I remember even before Lord de Carlo did all of that,
I was covering. I'm sorry, Lord de Carlo is a
sex tech company that made a smart vibrator with a
focus on women right and women's sexual health and empowerment.

(08:16):
I have I interviewed them for a piece back then,
and I haven't kept in touch as much, and so
I've completely forgotten, like my brain's ram has run out.
But I remember very well another brand, Lioness, who makes
also a smart vibrating bildo, and they had to like
show it an off site sort of non official, non
sanction see as event in Vegas that they had made

(08:38):
orgasm arts. So they have a smart vibrator with sensors
in it, right, and it would like tell you when
you've had an orgasm based on the vibrations.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
That actually feels like that might be very use It is.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Actually useful because the pitch back then and you know, men,
when you have erectile dysfunction, for example, it could be
an indicator that something's wrong with your heart health. It
could be something that's wrong somewhere else in your body.
It's like a check engine light for women. It could
be similar. Like, we don't have enough data, and that
was step one on collecting the data. So the Lioness
Smart vibrator was very impressive to the point where like

(09:09):
on the Engadget team, like we we gave it like
one of the it was a nominee for an award
in the health category that year that we were awarding
the CTAs Best of cs Awards, and it is it
does like you to your point ed, we were just
talking before the podcast starter that we need people in
the space where like away I'm familiar and the CTA
was gatekeeping some of this or it was like not
open to because it was squamish. I get it makes

(09:30):
people screamish to be like you put this inside you.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, but I think that you raised something with David.
Men in general do not discuss sex, thank you, and
men have a very hard time talking about like arouse,
they talk about lust. They're very good at discussing the
journey and all that. Like it's almost like, oh, sex
is something we do in a dark crew and we
hide from it despite men also craving it.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
So the discussion with men about sex is actually quite rare.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
I only have to I never talked about having sex
with you guys, not literally doing it, but it also
having had sex in general, which is the one rule
we have here, does not happen at ces. That's that's
a choice. But nevertheless, it's like men don't have these
discussions about sex in general. So the idea of a
man being able to go up to and it's a challenge,
especially if it outside of your coverage, to go up

(10:18):
and be like, hey, so how do you use this
that hoo hoo, but also not feeling a little vulnerable
because with men, especially with sex toys, at least in
my experience of discussing with them, they're scared of the
idea of using it with a partner like male or female.
That the idea is it's like giving up, even though
from my experience, whatever gets the job done. A woman
tend to be pretty happy, but even then even saying

(10:38):
this out loud, I'm like, Yeah, this is the conversation
I wouldn't have with guys in general.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, yeah, I think we should be talking more and
more about it. Like I just from you bringing that up, Ed,
I was like said, I was like, oh, yeah, men
probably don't even talk about because I have for a
large chunk of my life been like we need to
talk more about sex just a monstreament. I think we
need to talk about what gets you, what an orgasm
feels like? Like what is all this stuff? Because there's
people that are not having it and that's just depressing.

(11:05):
It's like they're like, I don't know what does get
me off or not? But have I had to know
or not? Like it's I'm just.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Joy in it. There is so much that and like
the intimacy you can have with someone with having a detailed,
meaningful conversation about what gets you both off. It's something
you can walk and you need to.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Talk to your partner about it. What are you going
to do or talk to yourself about it? Figure yourself
out and then talk to your partner or partners or
whatever you want to do with people about it. Like
you should be experiencing joy and every and and I
get that as we're talking about this, people already feeling squeamish,
like I'm sure listeners are like uncomfortable with the topic.
It's it's not like I don't know how we're going
to integrate.

Speaker 4 (11:37):
Your listeners are demanding did she.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Has try to overcrack? Because I feel like when I
looked at the innovation awards when I first or not overcracked.
But have they tried there's has their response been like, oh,
we don't want that backlash, or oh, we are like
changing our mind about it. I because I because I
didn't realize that they have given an innovation award and
removed it. They had an innovation award to a vibrator

(12:01):
to a smart I think dolphin or vibrator toy in general,
but that was the only one that I saw and
most of it. I'm curious about whether it's like, okay,
since that since they had this scandal, they're like, Okay,
we'll just do a sort of small carve out and

(12:22):
that will be enough as a sort of superficial move,
but we're not actually going to talk about it, change
attitudes about it, integrated more.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Kind of like lip service kind of like just giving
you your here have this and like don't bother as anymore.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
So I think it's I think thematically relevant as well,
because there's a real irony about it, because the reason
they're probably not putting it front and center is that
like I was just giving into iniquity all these people
just be talking about, right, So instead you do the
thing that's well known with sex that you should do,
which is repression. Yeah, when you just hide it all
versus and you talk about people being uncomfortable talking about this,
we're not talking.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
About the actuspects of it not.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
But also there is joy and happiness within this in
the same way that not real problems of being solved
all the time here sex toys are actually solving them
on the I can't.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Speak to how squeamish or not squeamish ces is because
I don't know very much about it, But it feels
like this is a dynamic that we've kept coming back
to in these which is like this is a product
that solves like a problem that people experience. It's like
the thing that like enhances your life in some way,
And it feels like much of for me, I guess
like the balance of the stuff that you see here

(13:26):
is not that it is either like it's do Dad
stuff to a certain extent, but then also there's this
like pie in the sky shit about like it's a
house that like empathizes with you and it helps it
helps you pick out your you know, yeah right, yeah,
Whereas in this case, it's like the stuff that I
was impressed with down there was stuff that was basically

(13:47):
like that felt like an invention. It felt like an
invention that had become a product that could then be
like marketed and sold. And it doesn't I don't know
to what extent. And this is something the people that
have been to more cees Is than me could speak on,
like has the was there a time when it was
more of a like a place that sold products or
has it always been a place where like LG promises
to fix your life.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
I can't speak for like more than ten years past,
but yeah, yeah, I guess I mentioned this recently. Like
it started as feeling like the Home Entertainment LG show,
along with some like laptops and Hairy Bud sprinkled around.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Right, I gather there was an auto show era.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, there was one year where it was the Car Show,
and then now it is the AI Show. But then
you still have like I think South Hall has always
been filled with like gadgets that feel like do dads
from like other parts of the world. And then I
think as CTA continues to expand its space and its scope,
you've got more and more of like people feeling like
they can pay five thousand dollars to get a table

(14:44):
come here and show there can like what's that term
for something that does something too like a there's a
term for it, like the like something that does something
that some other brand does anyway, like a clone pretty
much like yeah, exactly, so anyway, it's clone substitute beeps
of like, oh my gosh, I saw so many dice
and the hair dryer dudes this year.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
You know, I saw so many different kinds of the
same battery pack.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, I also love battery packs.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I saw so many smart rings. I saw so many
you know, it's the one year there was massage chairs everywhere,
and now it's like their transformer massage chairs everywhere. It's
it is, to an extent always that kind of show.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Somewhat pivot here, but one of pieces of gadget's coverage
was about these new.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
Like vacuums they with the arms.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Can you hold me through what the hell that is?

Speaker 6 (15:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:31):
I mean you had Charissan on your show recently.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
She's coining you covered its good. Yeah, very unfomous bell
but yeah, no, she tell.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Me about this.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
So so it started with robo Rock. I'm gonna paint
a tail for you here. Robo Rock is one of
the most well known names in the roboback space. And
you know those spinning robot vacuums and go and clean
your floors for you. The innovation in them has in
the past or in recent years been like combining the
vacuum and mopping features. Now they're like, how else do

(16:01):
we innovate? Well, roboock builds a robotic arm into its
disk of robo vac and the arm can come up
and it has obviously sensors and stuff like that can
detect obstacles in front of it and be like, oh,
this is sock I need. Like in the past, the
robot vacuum would get tripped up and maybe not you know,
continue to vacuum right or go somewhere else. And now

(16:24):
if it can pick up the sock, that's in its way,
or toothbrush or hairbrush or whatever is in this way.
It can put it away and then continue to clean
the path that it was on, or you know, put
it somewhere else. So somehow everyone was like, hell, yes,
this is the thing that I wanted out my life,
which makes sense. This is a real world application of
something that well in the limited demo, yes, right, like

(16:48):
it did work. It did seem to go up to
a sock, pick it up and put it in the
laundry basket that was.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Jecks up to three hundred a little more than half
a pound.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, so roboocks vacuum only has that weight limit. And
then and the funny thing is with ce as we
were just talking about this, every other Robovat company was like,
we also have arms. Here we go. Dreamy, for example,
was supposed to only debut it's like stair climbing robot,
which also is another obstacle in these homes, decided to

(17:16):
show off its arm. But it's a more solid looking
clamp situation that seems to be able to handle like
way more weight. So yeah, exactly, I'm like, I good
for you. You go to the gym, but you know,
out vacuum that I don't know what you would call that,
the transformer of vacuums, the optimus prime of vacuums maybe, Yeah,

(17:39):
But yeah, I mean, look, it's nice to see these
companies innovate and then copy the heck out of each other. Yeah, but.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
Has like a you know, it's sort of reassuringly concrete
relative to some of the area or stuff. Not only
can you see what problem they're aiming to solve, but
you can like sort of watch the process of competition
playing out.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
In terms of that, whereas and the thing that I
felt and you were you saw like actual crypto guys
talking today, like the maximum amount of abstraction, the language
where you're just kind of like we I don't even
understand what you're what you're fixing for me here? Yeah,
beyond like a comprehensive reimagining of my life that removes
any personal agency and replaces it with your proprietary yeah,

(18:24):
algorithms or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So on the subject of robots, though, what else have
you seen?

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, A lot of the robots we saw and liked anyway,
we did a round up at Engadget mostly were these
like cute, emotional support robots, Like.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Everyone's talking about these them, but it seems that everyone
actually likes them.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
We like them because they're cute, right, and they're like
some of them are like eighty bucks. It's like eighty bucks.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
Yeah, why not?

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Like I would get I'm a person who has some
form of self diagnosed OCD, which is I don't like
pets because they mess up my place, right, and so
I still want the warmth and tender love of a cute,
little furry creature that can do its own thing but
not poop. And they the idea of a furry robot

(19:08):
that has warmth that can generates One of them does so.
The not the Yukai engineering, the rope pet. The rope
pet does generate warmth, and so it sort of feels
comforting right when you have it on you. The other
one that we saw is the Yukai engineering is mirum.
It's something that stares at you. Yeah, that was when
they curse.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
I really don't I have not seen this thing yet,
but the idea of something staring at me really free.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Though I don't know. I think it's a character personal.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
The tombot that we saw, Yeah, Leo, there's a dog
for people with dementia that I mean, at first glance
also did feel and look like a like a dog, right,
And it's kind of just programmed where it's like, you know,
maybe you would you would benefit from having the companionship,
but you you're, you're, you're dementias to it progressed for

(19:59):
you to be able to take care.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
See that's a really good use case.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
You can't talk to them at all, because the only
question I have there is if in the latter stages
and experiences I've had mostly through friends, is wouldn't they
forget about it? Would it not be jarring? But I
honestly I really am rooting for them because that sounds lovely.
That sounds like something that actually solves a problem of
you can't really do contiguous care when you yourself are

(20:25):
kind of out of sync with the world due to
your condition. See, this is the thing, is we roll
to the end of this show. It is nice to
have a conversation where it's not entirely just yeah, I
don't know what that I a con man and another
connon man were conning each other in front of me.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
It's just Vegas, no exactly.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
Yeah, there is that feeling of that's like the bit
of it that has when I've felt overwhelmed by this
beyond them, like the volume, like the physical challenge of
just like walking for whatever twenty miles or this. There's
the sense sometimes of like you're trying to take in
the entire spectrum of like free market fuckery and form bite,
you know, like from like the white label cable manufacturers

(21:05):
on the bottom of things to the you know whatever
the like Amazon or like just litteral you know, globe
bestriding giants on the other one. That it's like you
see the plankton and you see the whale sharks, and
like every single thing in between is like it's a
lot to sort of hold in your head. Yes, it
makes the to me at least, it makes the actual
products that seem to have actual use cases feel that

(21:28):
much more valuable or welcome because there's you know, it's
like I sort of know what it's about. There's a
lot of this stuff that is impossible for me to parse.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
So how long have you been here is? Or how
many days?

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Oh yeah, I landed January fourth, Saturday, and today is
what Friday? So and I'm leaving tomorrow. I have big
plans to go explore the desert or something, and I'm here,
like to go and get on an ATV or something
and go like just because today officially everyone's flying home
from my team and so yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Not y'all salt or salt bed.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
I guess assault bed.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
I think it's you know if oh.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Oh the flat light? Yeah, gotcha. No, I haven't go
for a hike. Yeah, I want to do that after this,
which is why when you ask me to stay for long,
a girl was like, ed, not that long.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
I gotta go.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I have to go visit a canyon. I have to
do something lost in the mountains. If you would never
hear from me again, you.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Want to be very lost, just be me. So so far,
what is your favorite thing you've seen? I say so far?
As we talk about the end?

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, hard to choose. Can I say what is not
the favorite thing I've seen?

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (22:36):
I've seen this video making the rounds. Now that I
finally had some time to get back on my social
media like binging habits and on Reddit and on a
lot of social media platforms, this video of this AI
sex robot.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, the one hundred and seventy thousand.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, the one with the dark haired, dark long hair,
looking like they're falling off a chair.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Basically, yeah, when we will hit the brake in like
eight minutes, let'll show you a picture. But it is
really funny because I love that there's always one company
that does something like this where they just everyone experiences
the Uncanny Valley at once. Yeah, and they're like, but
we got a ton of press out of it. Every
article is just like this horrifying thing. A company is made,

(23:15):
these these evil people. They talk about them like one
of the bad guys from Full Metal Alchemists. They like
the monstrosities they have summoned, and like nailed it.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
I saw something that kind of reminded me of this
where it was and it was this humanoid robot and
it was very loudly, clearly saying I'm a text based AI, do.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Not have a body, and it's fully imp.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
And I was just like, Okay, that's this is a
good gimmick because that only comes up. I stood there
for about ten minutes. That only comes up like once
every seven minutes for a while the rest of the time,
you can do the little gimmick where you're talking to
it and it's speaking and you just don't hear that.
It's like probably just literally a chatbot speaking out of
the speakers, but you find tuned it it looks human, right,

(24:02):
and you got a chance to advertise whatever AI platform
platform that it is that the company was connected to,
which is ways way.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
It's like, w it's a waste. Oh that's a tough one,
hey baby, I somehow missed the Hall of Uncanny humanoids,
which is like, thank goodness, and it's still a couple
of hours left.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
I guess I could go down.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
I just sort of robot with like a Donald Trump
masco on took a picture then immediately deleted it because
I know when someone's trying to get coverage. I know
when someone's just Donald.

Speaker 4 (24:34):
In sense that was the case with the sex spot
that they were just basically like, I mean this we
got mentioned in the Wall Street Journal. They called this
the embodiment of everything that's wrong with temporary culture.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
You know, like, yeah, no, I think to your point,
the it's refreshing for me to see the pr angle
of this that you're thinking of. I know, I'm just
there like, oh right, yeah, this is a cheap method
to employ I I didn't get that vibe. We didn't
even cover it. None of it was not even on
our radars, Like yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
Because don't encourage them. But also back to the earlier theme,
it's like a thing, a thing made by someone who
is not actually interested in people having sex or meaning
exactly direct SEXU relationships. It's like, what are these ugly
pigs that never have sex? One a horrible robot that
looks like kind of like a woman, so they can
have their horrible sex in a locked room, criminalizing sex,

(25:24):
treating it like this ugly thing that we should hide
from the world. Were also kind of making fun of
people who.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, making fun of their target audience, which is the
irony of that is so strange.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
This is empathy and joy and honesty about sex, which
is like a meaningful thing that people should explore.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
It's part of life. Yeah, I disagree. Is how we
got here.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Listen to Protestants were onto.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Something I love. It seemed to be fifty to fifty
split on this. It's pretty normal about it.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
Before I came to Las Vegas. Now I'm taking a
hard stance to get this ship out.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Sex is out in twenty twenty five, before I came
here as a freak and I'm leaving with some some change.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
I hear about crypto apparently what you're a convert now?

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Oh yeah, I you know, I think I should be
on the blockchain.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think, oh gosh, oh god, you know someone's done yeah,
like with unutterable horrors that has now that it's been uttered.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, who knows what's going.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
On in Thistle Street general cs, abomination.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
Of the Yeah, yeah, I bet money is someone I
know like them or a friend is making it right now.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
They should be making something else. They should like getting
their affairs in order. When I find not, that's it.
So as we as we approached the break, here, is
there anything else you're going to see on the show?
Are you've just done?

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Okay? So I'm here for personal interest.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
Now.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Last night I was supposed to already be done working,
but I went to the Venetian Expo and I saw
some like last minute accessibility related products that's always been
like a topic I pay attention to myself. We actually,
I'm very proud to say this, and Gadget's like best
of Sea as winner, like the best in show. Best
of all the things we saw was a smart cane
for the blind.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
So we talked about this and it's good, like because
my worry with it was a it needs an Internet
connection if it's going GPT thing. But it works.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
It worked, Yeah, and in the busy wife like convention
floor where like you assume the Wi Fi is like
clogged as as shit, right, and I did not clarify
or verify what type of Internet connection was using. Was
it on device? I bet it's not because there's a
very thin, like well made device, like they folded it
up unfolded it showed me. I held it in my
hand and used it a bit. It seems to work

(27:33):
really well.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
It's the white like on it.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
It is slightly heavier than I think you're conventional like
folding cane for people who are visually impaired, but not
too much heavier. Not to be clear, this is like
a second generation of an existing product. The first one
was a bit heavier, so they've refined it. They've made
the handle a little easier to hold. They've replaced like
a touchscreen sort of button situation with tactile buttons, which
should have been in the first one, right, like why

(27:56):
didn't you think of this? So they they have made improvements.
Can you to and he have a pretty legitimate partner
in TDK who's like a big or more established company
to see this through. Look to your point, ed, z ed,
to your point. This thing at least if it dies,

(28:18):
if it runs out of battery, it's still just a can.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
This is what Crisaer I believe said about it. It's
like it still functions as a device. It's just the
Wi Fi thing, is what it's because if it's if
the whole thing is a model.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Well, but it's not entirely like a chat GBT only.
I mean the term by turn navigations is something that
is quite important to the concept here, and the fact
that it will like that has a speaker on board
to like answer questions and stuff like that. So those
are important things. But it's also got like a flashlight
on board those sorts of things that don't require Internet
right for example. So that's something we you know, should

(28:52):
definitely clarify. We have the contact information about people we
can get in touch and find out.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
I would love to know.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, I'll find out.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
So as we come towards the right Edward Guise journey,
Weacking People find.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
You newsletter The Tuckbubble dot Substock dot Com podcast. This
Machine Kills and then Big Black Jack a bit on
Twitter and Blue Sky Shelan. We can people find you.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
It feels like every social media app is closing, So
sure c h R O I n N dot, bskuy
dot Social is the safest one to say an email,
sure ch r at ngadget dot com or just in gadget.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Dot and of course then Gadget I'll be putting the
links to the best show in the notes. Don't worry,
mister Rothwacken.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
People find defector dot com and the Distraction podcast and.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Also it's Christmastown podcast. I'm at Zitron. You can find
me everywhere everywhere. You just Google takes biggest Nastiest Baby,
and that's what I pop up past. Now, if you're
a big nasty baby and you love products because you're.

Speaker 7 (29:49):
Way I love.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
I've got all this money and I don't way to
put it or don't know what podcast where, then just
follow the ads off to this. You'll have something and
we're back. So Sherlin Shelin. We talked just before this

(30:13):
about this infrared mask. Now I say this for both
personal and professional reasons. What was this and why does
what does the infrared mask thing?

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Do.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Okay, so it's not just infrared. This is Shark's Cryoglow
and it debuted at CEUs twenty twenty five. It is
the latest in a string of like full face like
light based mask devices. You've probably maybe you've heard of
their faces.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Oh no, I'm going to be completely honest. I've been
targeted with these things. Yes, masks you put on the
kind of lose something to you and just being so
because I have like gaunt eyes, I look like I'm
Polish British.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's not you're too mean to yourself, but god I am.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
But that's part of the show. But for real, though,
what do these things actually why do you use them
as a person?

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Okay, So, red light therapy, when used with effective components,
it is suppose to help like anti aging, help reduce
fine lines or signs of signs of aging, finance, wrinkles.
The blue light is supposed to help with antibacterial so
it's good for acne. Purportedly, infrared is helping with some
level of rejuvenation under the skin as well as penetrating
the layers of the skin. I know this is because

(31:18):
of the facials that I take, and I include the
light therapy in the salon. I feel like they work,
but I go for the like Salon grade ones, so
that's like probably going to work better and than any
of these home treatments. I've been very skeptical, skeptical of
devices like the Solo Wave, which is a smaller wand
with smaller COMPONENTSLD bulbs don't seem as as a fillender.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
There is a laser safety specialist. It's currently he's just
got his head in his Sharon, please keep.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Talking about Yeah, I'm not sure how effective, right, Like
it's so hard to tell with these things, like when
you have to use them for six months to like
see any Resultsay, no, oh no, I don't. I mean
I don't think they're completely unsafer useless. Right.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
He's not saying that, he's just going to he would
come over and say something about how lazist. Just sorry, Phil,
come over. Why are you complaining?

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Grab a chair, Grab a chair.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
Please share your microphone with him so he can have
his party.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
I wasn't complaining.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
You had your head in your hands. Yes, now he's
taking a knape.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
Because now this is just when I once again would
like to take a moment to really give thanks to
the deeply overworked, put upon, and underfunded folks at the
Food and Drug Administration, specifically for the Center for Device
and Radiologic Heal.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, I agree for whom None of.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
These products ever get to them, nor do they get approved.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Are they not like home? I feel like there have
to be like home versions of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
And that's kind of looking at there are what did
the cryo one do?

Speaker 1 (32:56):
So the cryo part of it where these two metallic
plates are under the eye and they were just cold,
and it was so comfortable that felt, And that's very
useful for ski exactly exactly the important thing that having
had products like this come through where I work at
exceptional expense because they have success managed to sell them

(33:17):
to NFL teams.

Speaker 5 (33:19):
I've had to stop people from spending hundreds of thousands
of dollars for you have gotten an ir hot red
light therapy unit. What it's doing is providing heat. How
is that different than the hot lamp at McDonald's. It's
considerably cheaper or alternatively, the thing we have literally been

(33:43):
using since time immemorial hot water bottles now in a
face mask form. It's to get it where it needs
to be. That is valuable putting an ir diode in it.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Is not okay.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
So nothing wrong with the face mask.

Speaker 5 (34:03):
Then, no other than do not sell the sematical product.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Do not well, no one does.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
Don't try to make a claim. Do not allude to
a claim, which many people are I want to find
to let you make that assumption for them. Yeah, and
if they're feeling really good, they actually put a disclaimer
on their product so they I don't have to afford
them to the FDA.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
No, no, no, you need to do that. I have
some so too as well.

Speaker 5 (34:28):
Please absolutely, But coming so this.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Mask, so you have the cold bits, So is that
to help with ibag semis.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, it's just to help with like exactly tightening the
skin back up or just you know, feeling fresher when
you've had a rough night. And so the heat and
you use these so I've used it for like a minute,
so don't But you've used the masks in general though,
Oh no, the other two No, actually, I mean just
the inforation. Yes, I have used the Salon greed ones,
not the ADM.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
What do they do like, it's it's just the heat
kind of Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
You're supposed to put them on your face and then
turn like a four minute, eight minute, six minute session
and then yeah, the not heat necessarily the ir ones
do you have heat? The red light therapy just shines
the light on you. There's the blue light depending on
which treatment you selected. And the cold for me was
the only thing I could really walk away from the

(35:18):
experience having felt and it sounds I was so I
was very pleased with it. I will tell you I
have come around on these devices. I used to be
hugely skeptical because I always thought they were ineffective, Like
how can you get a tiny light bulb to do anything? Really?
And to like the same point we're making everyone, yeah, exactly,
like it's it's heat, It's why do you need an
expensive device that their body like device is six hundred dollars,

(35:42):
the competing Dennis Groves doctor Dennis Groves device is four
fifty five. This is three forty nine. And that's part
of the reason I was intrigued. It's like, Okay, you're
bringing it down, You're doing something different with the cryo.
There's a lot more I think. I mean, I quoted
the SVP of product development from Shark on this in
my article, which is I was like the theair body.

(36:02):
One vibrates and you know, to massage your skin, and
I think the company probably touts some benefits to vibration
and I was like, well, I think I know the
answer to this, but this is do shark cryo glow
vibrate And they're like, there's no vibration. This is a
skincare device. Vibration does nothing for the skin. And I
was like, you tell me, girl, you tell me.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
I was like I needed this exactly. And it's like
we're I think, as we see more competition in this
space where hopefully we'll see more people focus on what's
actually going to work in this sort of device where
there's a lot of like junk science. There's a lot
of like and my brain is so not working, but
like stuff that doesn't quite work.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
It's you do science stuff, and it's they make these claims,
and they do it at the show where everyone's making
some molobally claims.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
It's such a challenge to parse through all of it,
but also.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
How does can I ask it just as it editorially? Yeah,
like how do I know that you You know? The
short answer is you work with a bunch of smart
people that know their fields and stuff. Like that, how
do you know like which, because there's we saw multiple
smart canes. I don't know if we saw the one
that you all awarded, Like, how can you tell if
it's if it's good or not. That's kind of a

(37:14):
remedial way of phrasing it. My brain's also not but
we can just whatever make our little dolphin sounds back
and forth. Yeah, trying to get there with you.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
I think it's partly because in Gadget has had such
a history of covering CEOs. We have the process down pad.
We start the process the second we get the full
exhibit or list for shows like Unveiled, and.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Patrick actually woke us through the process.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah of course.

Speaker 6 (37:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
So yeah, for this was my first year like fully
running the show for the team, and I started later
than I wanted to. Like since July, I've been like,
we need to start playing CEOs right and we at
least get the trouble and accommodation booked ahead of time.
But this year we started like November, which was late
for us, and it was very late. I was very nervous.
But the CTA also didn't have a lot of the

(37:59):
directories for us to pass through until the week before Christmas.
So we spend all two weeks. II did and take
time off during the Christmas break, and I just spent
it looking at exhibitor lists and we google every single
name that is an exhibitor. We find out what they do,
and if we don't, we'll reach out. We'll find their
pr email address, We'll reach out and be like, what
are you showing at CES. Then we'll do the research

(38:20):
of like what is in the space, what else is
already in the space, is it new? Is it like expensive?

Speaker 4 (38:26):
Is a junk?

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Right?

Speaker 1 (38:26):
And then the process actually happens before we fly off
to Vegas. When we do get here, then we make
the assignments of like we're going to unveil, We're going
to Pepcom, We're going to these booths. These are the
things that actually look interesting. We'll go and look at them.
These are things that we don't know if they're good
or not. We need to investigate them. We have a
tag internally called investigate, and so we go look at
the thing on the show floor. We have our reporters

(38:48):
go out talk to the company. And then also because
we're in Vegas, the research is going to be limited
to what we can google within two minutes, right to
make a call on whether this is important, but yes,
we then we try to match the people with expertise
in the space to the product, so at least they
have a wealth of information.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
Audio and oh my god, he's so good, right, but
that's the thing. You have specialists.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
We have so much. Yeah, So Billy Steele's our specialist
on audio. I mean, the vendro was here. He's our
chip guy.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Oh he was stalking in video.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Oh yeah, all in video all day and NPCs as well,
I mean in video. I mean we have a bunch
of chip people too, which I'm so grateful for. And
we have multiple experts on some categories and they can
trade information. I wish you would get a chance to
see the debates that happen in our room sometimes, right, Like, yeah,
next year, next year, this will be the Engadget podcast
basically will have the topic exp.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
We've got three of you on. I'm happy to have more.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
I'm glad you've had so many. I mean, there is
such a diversity of voices and opinions on the team
to which I really like. And when they fight it out,
that's my favorite because I'm like, yeah, we can't agree
to disagree.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
But also I've been quite critical of some of the
tech media on here, and I really this show is
not about like just see us. It's about kind of
explaining how the tech media functions because it's very easy too.
And I don't mean this is this insult to a gadget.
You could put it the c Net or even the
Virgin Yeah, definitely tech crunch. It's you think, oh, they
just turn up, and then they go it's the big company.

(40:10):
Oh look at a big television, big but when there
is actually quite a refined decade or more process that's
gone into it. And also covering this show is insane?

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Is That was the bit that was like interesting to
hear for.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
I mean, obviously it sucks that you had to spend
your entire holiday season parsing a list of twenty five hundred,
three thousand hour many companies are, but it seems like
it's so patently unmanageable, like it is, it was unmanageable
for us.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
You probably did see everything, ever, because you were here
longer than me, or came close to that.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
I don't see the day I discovered that that there
was a cryptal pavilion that had been going on for
the entire time. Yeah, and I felt like I had
I didn't see it. I looked everywhere, you know, I
accidentally stumbled on it because I was like.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
What am I doing in? Yeah, and that is like
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
I mean, I guess that's like sort of what happens
with the show like this that like you know, the
idea is that you know, for them, I guess the
business is you said, whatever it is, five thousand dollars
a table for starters, and then it probably significantly more. Exactly,
it's like, so you don't say no to anybody unless
it's like a women's health Yeah, I guess, yeah they don't.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
We don't do that. But the idea of trying to
manage something this size, it's it's impressive. Like that's like
a you know, I I have so much self doubts.
I'm always like did we cover everything? That we miss something?
And it's you're always going to So that's why I
had to, like I let the team PEP talk with this,
like we're here. Number one, we made it here. Some
people missed their flight, some people were sick, right number two,

(41:38):
something's going to go wrong and oh yeah, we'll just
have to accept it. Now.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
That was the first thing I said to Phil.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Well, good, there you go.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah, something will go.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Wrong exactly, so we cannot get hung up on like
I missed this thing. I'd say, I if I do
that to myself at this show and to my team,
we will just never walk away from this feeling like
we've done our draw you.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Cover just being great. And I say this like truly
as a reader of Engadget from fifteen plus years, like
like a long.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Long time just turned twenty something, twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, that makes sense. And it's like this is a
mammoth show to cover and it's hard to And I've
had the same thing running. This is my first CS.
I've run better offline on and it's like, yeah, I'm like, shit,
I miss this. I'll see an article go and'll be like,
I'm the worst. I have failed the show. I've endangered
the mission and it's just impossible to do. So I'm
gonna change tech because you actually and this is a

(42:26):
miss of mind. Can you tell me what the Samsung
bally what this robot is? Because I've seen the articles
and I get I did not get a chance to
look at it.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Well, I don't know that it's even here at CS
twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Five, or someone's been showing pictures of it.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah, Bali. Bali's actually been at CS twenty twenty four
while it was debuted at CS twenty twenty four. But
the concept of this like rolling robot that Samsung makes
has been around for like what five years, I want
to say at least, if not longer, and it's in
its like most mature iteration. The one that's going on sale.
It's a bowling ball sized yellow robot that rolls around

(43:04):
your house. It's got a built in projector. It's got
the speakers built in. It listens to you speak. You
can talk to it and be like, oh trying, you know,
open the shades or like Casarta, the oven or whatever.
It talks to your smart home appliances. It can beam
like your screen on the ceiling, on a wall, on
the floor, wherever makes sense for you. The pitch was like,
it's this AI fitness companion, but it's also your home assistant,

(43:27):
all of these things. The news this CEES, because last
year was when they showed it off this CES is
that it's supposedly going to be available in the first
half of this year. I will caveat that. When they
first announced Bali properly in CS twenty twenty four, they
did say it will be available in twenty twenty four,
So it's like, Samsung, are you are you really going

(43:47):
to push this out this year?

Speaker 2 (43:48):
You know?

Speaker 1 (43:49):
More of that claims to be cute. I guess send
Via do that for fraid.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
I'm just gonna say seeing the pic, like again, I
don't there's a part every time somebody has talked about
like being like, yeah, it follows you around, it can
project stuff. There's it's not a good question. But the
thing that's in my head is just like, really me,
but are you sure? That sounds really hard?

Speaker 1 (44:09):
That's it. It is a cute little guy.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
And if you think this is like something that I
U sort of picked up, I guess also from Chris
of that does it does seem to be like one
of the themes of the Cees is cute little guys.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
So this this fits.

Speaker 4 (44:21):
This is like, you know, it doesn't just blinking. What
follows you around turns your stove on.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I say this with my Bengal cat Babo, who is
my familiar and he follows me around and he mows
at me, wants to be an eye level.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Screaming at you.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
I really enjoy that.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
That's his sister, Pokey. I will post it go to
my socials. Pokey's his little system, My beautiful screaming queen
who loves to scream at me. She just wants affection
all the time. And who doesn't. Baboo is the beautiful
smelt Bengal who's mostly just stopped and he hasn't meow anyway.
I guess that's why I don't need this thing, because
I already have something amazing to follow me. But at

(44:54):
the same time, putting that aside, why do I need
a robot following me? Why is to what end is
it following me? Oh, it's going to project something? What
is it going to project? Right?

Speaker 3 (45:04):
And I also asked when did the shift to like
affectionate intelligence.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
To Yeah, that's actually a good point.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
I mean, has that been something you guys have detected
over the past few years.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
My opinion is, I mean, the IBO has been around
for for a very long time, and it's peaked everyone's interest,
but it never really took off. Nobody really sold them
but robotics if you really look at the space in
the real world where is robotics. Robotics is in manufacturing
ROBOTICSYSM warehouses. They don't need to be humanoid robots, None
of them needs to be. They just need to be
arms that repeat and action over and over again and.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Do it so well.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
I value in the exactly do the things that we
don't want to do? These things you know, we've I
think we are collectively learning that the humanoid robots don't
quite make sense other than to impress people to stalk
in AWE created movies, remind people about the terminator exactly,
and the actual helpful robot arms in those like manufacturing

(46:00):
spaces are not as sexy and not as appealing visually.
So what else is that far anyway for something might
be right? Sure, but then like what is the next
space they saw? They looked to Eyebo, they looked to
the cute ones. They realized people want cute. I mean,
I think they looked at Pepper as well. There is
I think function and use for some of them in
specific spaces once again, which is I think in the

(46:22):
hospice care space, there's room for like telepresence robots, there's
for like sort of some sort of healthcare like, uh, robots.
I go to this place called kupa revolving sushi.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
A conveyor belt place, Yes exactly, but that was her
number one ship all through our twenties.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
That was yeah, forever, like whatever her birthday. Yeah, this
is different places.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yes, you did not't say that. I just take you
just said her her.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Don't worry about it. Yeah, Scarlett Johansson's voice.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
Do you know them? But my wife loves the you know,
like whatever a piece of nigary slowly approaching you and
you get to be like.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
It's my favorite thing. Kua Revolving Sushi has a robot
that brings you your drinks when you request for it, right,
Like all the servers have to do is place your
drink on the tier.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
And then I was in career at the beginning of
last year there was a dishwash dishbot but it worked
like and it seemed to actually work these like robotics
is here, but like many things, I guess it's not
that exciting.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
Yeah, this comes back to something that we were talking
about yesterday, like if the actual applications for a lot
of these robots are like, like you said, it's like
either elder care or accessibility and stuff like that. That
seems like it's the case for a lot of this stuff.
A lot of the sort of like augmented reality is
if that's the term for it, I don't know if
it's a R or whatever.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Not the thing like the brain implant, what do you
call it?

Speaker 2 (47:46):
You're a link Novai, Yeah, yeah, but like one that
was made up, so like just your control of.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
It's like all of that seems to be about helping
people who have these and yet like it's feel like
with this robot, like you make it cute because and
you show when you're like demoing it for people, you
don't want people to think about being sick.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
I guess that's not good for advertising.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Yeah, but you show them instead this thing that like
I'm not sure that people really want to be like
followed around their house, Like I'll turn my own stove on, honestly,
Like I don't want anyone else to be Yeah yeah,
yeah right. But it's so there's something funny about the
idea of like inventing this thing that actually is useful.
Actually it could add value to people's lives, but you.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Can't sell it.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
Yeah, in a way, here's the thing actually reflects its utility.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
I Again, another thing I've ranted about for a couple
of years now is how much we're failing people in
terms of elder care, long term care for people in
late late stages of life. And the reason we do
that as a society is because I think companies and
corporations don't see value in providing this sort of care
or more products in this space, right, And so that's
why they don't want to tell you that this is

(48:49):
better suited for like older care caregiver situations. Even though
there are companies that will come out and say that,
bigger companies won't want to do it because like a
PR I'm thinking this is a PR conversation, I don't
know that they want to say that we're investing in
this thing that serves a very niche audience that might
die in a few years.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
And there is a reason then that absolutely is it
because you don't get a growth.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Market exactly, the growth growth mindset that sucks exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
And you also don't get growth out of things with
elderly people other than being a private, privatey equity firm
that buys old people.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Yes, I mean this is This is one thing I
think of with the care economy, which is like the
growth of it has been decided largely by the consequences
of private equity firms laying waste.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
To infrastructure seeing they can build into it, and then the.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
The evaporation of resources for facilities leading to these firms,
these on demand firms, coming in and applying the uber
model to them and saying, look like we will create
a marketplace where the nurses will bid each other to
the lowest possible price. So it's come in without training.
I mean training in the sense not like because they're

(49:58):
not employees, they're not hold where things are, who to
take care of, how to how to operate like that.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Like itinerant nurse like traveling nurse economy and suck and that.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
And this makes me think of what we see sometimes
with some of this technology that's being offered, and that
you know, some of the things that we've seen would
be very good and very useful and should be durable,
sustainable businesses just offering care to help people are not
able body to help people who are incognitive decline, who

(50:28):
to help people who need care? And yet when we
would talk with some of them, you could see like
that's actually that's not always the first way they think
or talk about it. They're also talking about like, oh,
like this firm would love this application that we have,
and it's like okay, but like that's not real. The
thing that is real is this care. This this way
you would have to be able to help people who

(50:50):
need care. But you're you're kind of using it. Some
of these firms feel like they're using it to bootstrap
into the growth.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
You know, like you have to like bang.

Speaker 4 (50:58):
It's such a bizarre thing for me too, especially when
you consider like what amazing I mean for the ones
that actually exist, Like not everything that we saw, you know,
exists in any sort of real stage yet, but like
the idea that you have to like bang on the
sort of fantastical growth possibilities instead of the actual service. Yeah,
that you have created a thing that can you know,

(51:21):
provide this very service with this remarkable bit of technology
you did.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
There's no further ways to monetize the old person. I'm
not I like that it's funny whatever, Well not for
me because I'm like the joker, because I love for
the sad things. But it's this sense of well, there's
not why am I investing in these people? Like, why
would I invest in the old person? They're going to
die soon anyway, and we need.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
To get a sciety.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Yeah, we live in a society.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
That's the part that's kind of weird about it, because
it's not wrong to say that this is like a
niche marketplace, correct, and yet it's like it's also not.
It is also like one of the least niche experiences
possible is getting old and die, Like that's a pretty
universal human I mean, for those of us that are
lucky to make it that far.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Like, yeah, it's weird. I mean, I guess this is
like sort of a going to.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
Be a recurring theme anywhere that you go to, like
a trade show where people are trying to make a
billion dollars hut end.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
I was very encouraged to see this year. There has
been quite a lot more attention in this space. Right
we saw the ARP had a I mean, I so
I stopped by the h Tech pavilion on the show.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
But we really haven't heard about this.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, so I went there and the h Tech Pavilion,
presented by ARP, I guess is just a space in
the show floor. They have so many of these like
dedicated spaces carved out. They had a speech that where
they presented four special products I believe, well, the one
I saw and I tried on were this pair of
pants by Arcterix and a company called Skip that they've

(52:43):
worked with. This prep pants is like like a robotic
powered pants situation where you put them on and they
have sort of almost like an exoskeleton to help you
move and climb better. And we're at the point with
products that are designed for improving life for people with
mobility issues where it's not you don't have to be

(53:05):
like it's not binary right, you don't have to be
a full on paraplegic, and it's not crutches and wheelchairs.
This is for people who have some pain, struggle with
pain pain.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
And often these people are maybe thinking of someone in
my family refused to get any fucking help because they like.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
I'm not nothing's wrong with me.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
I'm just thinking constant pain and have mobility.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Yes, but these things sound kind of magical for me.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
These are these are going to be great, But these
are for because they're Arctiator an outdoor like a Parel
brand and that sort of thing. They're designed for like hiking.
And that's so it's more like if you're at a
stage in life where you're so burdened by some like
like pain or body pain, that like going outside seems
like such a pipe dream anymore, like climbing a mountain,
level a hill, right, Like you can walk around, you
can't really be active exactly, like challenges like scaling, like

(53:51):
elevation and whatnot. This this is what this pair of
pants is designed to.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Were they powered by anything or were they just there's.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
A battery pack in the back of the pants.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
And in the waste they do Did they support the
knees or the legs?

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yeah? So the one I tried by Arcterics had three
like braces, one around the ankle, one around the knee,
and one around like the thigh, and then the robot
arm which just kind of propel you in those moved
around right, and it's design my demo, we had to
go to like stairs because that's where you would demonstrate
the effectiveness more. Yeah, it's supposed to push you up.
I tried to do speed squads right in those. I

(54:22):
don't I'm not the target market clearly, but I was like, yeah,
I was like trying to see speed squads, and I
think when I tried them they weren't on. But they're
supposed to help you get from like the bent knee
position to the up position more easily, which is where
I think a lot of people struggle with pain.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Well, I in the last few in like the last year,
I've really got into yoga, and I would say a
year ago, i'd have trouble getting on and off the floor, right,
And I'm decent, Like I'm decently able, but like I
don't have something wrong other than the fact that I
was deeply inflexible. Being able to do that now is magic.
But that took a shit ton of effort to get
But also I didn't have any mobility issues that would

(54:55):
have precluded me from doing yoga. Yeah, so this, do
you know how expensive this is?

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yea?

Speaker 2 (55:00):
How expensive we talk?

Speaker 1 (55:01):
I mean, you know the Octor Express.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
I was going to say that they have it doesn't
have robot arms in it, It's still like expensive.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
How much we're talking?

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Yeah, I didn't think so they have no actual info ya,
but the ballpark figure that I'm hearing is like five thousand,
And I was like, are you going to talk to
insurance providers? To get the subsidized. They were, like, they
want to consider it. I don't think this is a product.
The insurance providers have to decide whether to cover it.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
They barely cover medicine exactly.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
There you go, my I don't want to get into it.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
But and also I can't imagine you're like anybody's pants,
Like you're not selling a lot of stuff at MSRP
when it's five thousand dollars exactly.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
To be honest, though, secretly, this is the stuff I'm
most excited about because like the idea of just putting
on a suit that makes you able bodied for anyone
is kind of magical. Yeah, Like I don't know, Like
I was a very heavy kid, grown like three hundred
and twenty five pounds, and that alone like didn't mean
I was strong, which is very embarrassing when you're lodge high,

(55:59):
will add. But nevertheless, like even when I got thin,
I still felt quite weak and I still had like
some joint issues even And it's like the idea that
we can kind of level the playing field other than
the fact it's five thousand dollars is kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
You want to hear something. Absolutely after I saw those
I walked downstairs to the Kickstarter booth, and the Kickstarter
booth had a company from somewhere in Asia, I think
Taiwan or China, I can't remember, called Hypershell, and they
make like a non pants version of There's exoskeleton. It
is between eight hundred to fifteen hundred dollars depending on
the material car.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
When you say non pants, how does that?

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Yes? So it's this sort of brace that you strap
on around your waist to start, and then you strap
like two things to your knees and they're basically an exoskeleton.
The reason is not on Engadget Communist. I haven't written
it out yet. I'm still technically working, I guess, but
chilling and yeah, and so they do the same thing
the Arcto ex pants do, except for in an exoskeleton

(56:52):
that you strap around your clothes. So cool.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
I love.

Speaker 5 (56:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Actually, i'll show you a video right now.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
I don't know if if you can, when will you
write up your store?

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Just send me then I will send you the link.

Speaker 5 (57:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
I'm hoping to do it tomorrow and have it up
over the weekend on our website.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
And I just I think that this is what I
wish CS or was, because if you think about what
makes technology actually magical, it's stuff that makes you stronger
connect with people. Quicker allows you to explore who you
are and who other people are in an honest way.
And when it gets worse, it's when people interfere.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
With that process or slap AI and everything or slap.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
AI and everything. So as we go, as we sadly
come to the end, we've got four minutes left. Was
there anything you were like, your favorite favorite thing? Was
there something you miss Is there anything you really missed
that you truly liked or despised?

Speaker 1 (57:38):
I can't something that made me laugh, but I kind
of liked it sold What was that? So we start
noticing a trend and yes, twenty twenty five, Chris I
might have talked about it, but Dan Cooper on our
team was the first one to crystallize this idea with
this term. I mean I crystallied the idea without this
fancy name that he came up with it. Please sit
the classic Dan great term the hoc Tour show. I

(58:02):
want to know, there was so much like saliva sensing,
saliva detecting tech boy on that sick on that thing.
I mean, look, when we walked into CEUs Unveiled, which
is the first show on Sunday night. I already knew
there were two saliva based like devices there. I was
not expecting the most popular booth at CS Unveiled, where

(58:25):
like crowds of people were around them the whole time.
I couldn't even get into a demo this thing called
salt spoon. Everyone was licking it. It was like everybody's
putting things in their mouths and this I don't know.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
I got to so I it's a cool idea. They
were not letting people put it in their mouth.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
At that point. There was like a video they probably
ran out. They was giving away disposable ones that failed.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
Yeah, there were like a couple of them sitting on
the counter and I like picked it up and I
was like, I don't know, feels good, Like I don't
like a spoon more, yes, but stranger. But then there
was like a video of a guy eating the robin
with it.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Yeah, but you know you had to get like, do
you like, Yeah, it's the one with the electromagnetic things
to make you taste the saltiness form.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yes, exactly, So think about it if you're trying to
consume like less sodium in your life, but you still
want to have salty foods. This food supposed that if
you use to spoon, it'll turn everything you put in
your mouth by tricking your taste buds into something that's
like thinking that something salty or saltier than it al.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
I learned about this from Jesse Ferrara, where I get
all my scientific information. But this is apparently the same
technology that people use for saltwater pools. That it's basically
a way of like making something salty without like dumping
a bunch of sodium into.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
So the idea is you will shy away from things
that have a certain level of salt because they'll taste
even more sot.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I can answer this be because I've had a lot
of emails I want to apologize to the people. We
kind of turn on those up at this. It turns
out there are people who have like real physical problems
with salt. They have to It's not like I should
have less, so it's if I have too much, I
will be in physical and this is magical for them.
It's like I want to like as the show goes on,

(01:00:05):
as we approach the end, anything I really mess up,
I will try and fix. But apparently like this is
a big deal for those people you can like have salt.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Yeah, it's not just like a diet thing too, Right,
It's like some people have irritation, inflammation or I don't
know if there's a salt allergy in the world, but right, hypertension.
So you want hypertensions a diet based thing that I'm
considering as an issue. Right, Like for healthy reasons, you
still want to be able to taste salty foods. It's
not about making something taste so salty that you will avoid.
It is more drinking bland things that will then taste salty.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Because of the use of this makes sense.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
It was like you also get that you can kind
of like dial in the experience like what you want.
I think there's isn't that right that It's like you
can go from like one to four and how salty.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
I walked the periphery of the booth the whole time
because I couldn't get inside. What was the other saliva
based Yeah, let's find things you could spit on. Yeah,
there were two.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
We call it the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Yeah, I uh here we are giggling about it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
But it is weird.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
It is this is there are two devices. One is
called the cordesans and the other is called hormometer. We're
not fans of the Yeah, her hormometer like hormone meter.
That's just a really funny it's a great portmanteau. I
think hormometer is slightly further along in my opinion of
the process. Basically, these are at home tests that you

(01:01:30):
can use your saliva, that you can use on your
saliva and they'll tell you how, much like cortisols in
your kay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
So I think the problem is the labeling, because everything
you've described is wonderful exactly. Also, if not be described
as saliva base.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Well that was to me the way it came off, and.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Saliva based like some.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Faint their nose tasting notes.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Interesting. I like it because, like I'm really into like, uh,
getting data about yourself, right, But I don't want blood
testing all the time. I don't believe in the photos
scanning of your face to tell your face age. I
want you to actually use I guess bodily fluids to
know what is up with me. And this seems smart, right,
Like it's non invasive, it's an easy way, and there

(01:02:16):
are so many ways that we can avoid going to
the doctor. I guess it's not like going to a
doctor is a bad thing. It is that like people
want to know more about themselves. People have been strapping
glucose monitors on themselves just to understand their blood sugar
levels when they don't have diabetes. Right, So there's so
many reasons people could benefit from analyzing their saliva in

(01:02:36):
my opinion. For hormometer, they do both cortisol and progesterone levels.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
So what would those be just just for the cortisol.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Yeah, cortisol is distress hormones, so the levels of cortisol
are high or in higher stress. And then progesterone is
something that people can use to track I guess fertility
related things or cycle related or there's So I'm not
velvers enough in the science here to tell you what
else progester wants about.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
That makes all of us and sadly we have to
come to the end of this part of the show,
ed where can people find you?

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
The tech bubble, dot substat, dot com, this machine Kills
and Big black Jack of beIN on Twitter and blue
Sky Shehlon where.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Can people find you?

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
I think I'll still be on the meta apps for
a bit so Sherlyn Instagram, c h e r O
r n n s t h e r A.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
M uh defector dot com, The Distraction Podcast It's Christmas
Town Podcast, and David Jroth dot b s k y
dot Social.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Though I realized many of you PLoP my end, and
indeed when you hear I'm hurt, you cheer and laugh
and squeal and a wink. Nevertheless, if you don't want
to cause me misery, you'll follow the following ads with
your complete undivided attention. And we're back, and we're just

(01:03:59):
talking about the fact that we each of us has
two or three drinks at this point. We're not all right,
it's not to destruction. It's just a little bit is
a beautiful thing. Okay, Well, we've already had complaints about
the language, so let's just move on from that one.
So well, once again joined by mister Phil Broughton, the
health physicist. Just let's reintegrate you that and reintroduce you

(01:04:22):
to the show.

Speaker 5 (01:04:23):
Allow me to introduce myself. Okay, So I'm Phil Broddon.
I'm a health physicist, which is a radiation safety professional.
I'm also a laser safety officer. So I take care
of the full electro magnetic spectrum of radiation. I also
am the weird shit guy and Phil Andrew Bartender.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
Phil is here at CEES showing the laser mask that
he made that people can He's not FDA approving.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
I don't know that product. So you have seen that? No,
have you seen the laser bra as well?

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
That's that?

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
Really? Is that real?

Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
That is real?

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
What does it do?

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
What are you talking about? You haven't been on the floor.

Speaker 5 (01:05:00):
No, this wasn't on the floor. This is just why
the internet exists for sons.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
So Phil is someone I torture. Yes, we've been friends
for fifteen years. Sorry, I also missed something out. Mister
ed on Giso Junior is to.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
My right, wonderful Hello, and I'm now he's said, yeah,
so she calling me?

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
You haven't a laugh?

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
You have? You're taking a pitch mate, mister.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Cockles and searching my head? Can I do any accidents?

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Try it out?

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
Bean?

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Oh one time I did have an English breakfast and
I felt like I was gonna die.

Speaker 4 (01:05:39):
Yeah, that's just how it feels to be British.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Okay, back to all of your British levels maxed out.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Yeah, the British Saliveeian what.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
Let them don't let them win?

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Oh god, oh boy, there's so many directions. But back
to philm So, why does this show frustrate you? So
we've gone over the fire Marshal aspect, but just the
general milieu of CES does appear to torture you.

Speaker 5 (01:06:09):
So so a lot of what vendors are coming to
CES with are not despite the fact that it says
consumer Electronics show, many of the things are not aimed
for consumers, never meant for consumers, or these are not
products that are actually on the market, not going to

(01:06:30):
get to the market. And it's terrifying how many people
who have come on the show have been talking to
me separately at the bar have said that they've met
people at the stalls who asked them, so, what do
you think our products should do?

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
No, that's not what you do.

Speaker 5 (01:06:47):
If you have a product you're going to sell to someone,
you really better know what it does so it can
be sold legally safely, well so.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
That it could do it.

Speaker 5 (01:06:58):
Oh well there's that too.

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
Is that part the again asking an ignorant question? Okay,
you what days in? You need to stop leading in
with the item' not so I don't know a lot
about c I mean I know something about like what
this one you know, like and how it feels. Maybe
that seems that does strike me as strange, the idea
of showing up with something that's like halfway done, like
they give me just like publishing a draft with a

(01:07:20):
bunch of t ks in it and being like, I'm
really interested in anybody's feedback on how you think this
story should conclude.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Well, after this, we're going to drive out west to
a little place I like to call Palo Alto, a
whole world that is built on stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Yeah, the prototype, Well, yeah, it's like pizza.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Alonso just madeen off for a three year deal to
the Mets, which is news I'm giving to David allowed
to do that. Yeah, Like it's much like that, like
what will you do pizza? And that is actually a
good question for the Mets at this point. But nevertheless,
to feel that one if you want, please please have
them some stuff. Handle the Mets real quick.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
Couldn't hurt.

Speaker 5 (01:07:58):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
The Alonzo thing, I as sentimentally as a Mets fan,
I hope he returns. I think he's declining. The Mets
seem to think he's declining. He if he's making offers
to them, maybe he thinks he's declining, but whatever, he
seems very happy to be on the Mets. And I
think that that is rare enough that I hope he stays.
That's a completely straight faced.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
For listeners who don't know what are the Mets.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
The Mets are so they're one of the that's a
great question.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
That's such a me thing to say. Thank you. Obviously
you haven't been down to the Eureka level. They are
as a it's an AI enabled.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
The mens, a private equity firm owned by a billionaire
that ostensibly sells baseball related services. They only recently updated
in terms of services to allow for baseball related success
with the acquisition of a company called Kwan Soto up there.

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
They're on a subscription model, like a lot of these guys,
you got to keep paying if you want them to move.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
We're not going to talk about the Nation League East.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Yeah, I just realized we have gone fully into the Mets,
so we need to That was beautiful, man. I am
so sorry, but Phil putting the fire marshal stuff aside,
what is it with lasers and these people like, what
is it? Why do They love to bring up lasers
so much like, what do you think it is?

Speaker 5 (01:09:11):
Okay? So this would be several decades of career experience
and just watching people and what they do. There's something
in the human psyche that gets very excited about whatever
thing there is in the world. What if I put
a laser on it, right that will make it better?
Or alternatively, this thing that already does the thing it

(01:09:33):
normally does, would a laser make it do it better?

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
So do they know what a laser is?

Speaker 5 (01:09:40):
Also often not great keep It is a laser light
amplification by a simulated emission of radiation.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
I didn't know it's an acronym.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
It is I just like scuba and I didn't realize
it was an acronym until you asked that question. Yea,
I have an IQ of seven.

Speaker 5 (01:09:58):
But the the more exciting thing and the reason why
I get excited about it and products that happen, is
how we regulate lasers in the United States of America.
This is your important asterisk that goes in the post
of These rules and regulations only apply in the United
States of America. In your jurisdiction, they may be different.

(01:10:21):
When lasers became a thing that weren't just stuff nerds
played with in the National Laboratory. The very first market
they hit, the first consumer consumers, very relative product was
for ophthalmological treatments where you're doing the laser cautery z

(01:10:42):
apping to fix in the eye in the eye, to
cauterize off new veins growing in the retina, to say,
people who are losing their vision from glaucoma or other
diabotic diabetic retinopathy. Because the first application of lasers that
really hit the consumer market was a medical application. Is

(01:11:02):
the reason why lasers are regulated by the Food and
Drug Administration's Center for Device and Radiologic Health, which means
any consumer product that incorporates a laser is supposed to
have been vetted and compliant with the Federal Laser Product
Performance Standard that the FDA promulgates. And they only get

(01:11:23):
one chance to catch you is when you release your
product into commerce, and that has a very specific regulatory meeting,
which is, oh, God, you actually want to.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
Know, yes, well, I'm assuming for our purposes here the
stuff that's downstairs. A lot of the places have, as
you've pointed out, like they'll be like a little tagliner
like this has not been shown to the FDA yet.

Speaker 5 (01:11:44):
Or not approved by the FDA, or is being used
under basically the Fundsis code of the regulation, when.

Speaker 4 (01:11:55):
Even if you have a prototype on it, it has
not been released into commerce.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
Correct?

Speaker 5 (01:11:59):
Okay, So commerce's specific meaning is you have a excuse me,
laser product that you have made more than one of,
and or is being used somewhere other than the place
where it was initially built, and or by someone who

(01:12:21):
was not the person who originally built it, which means,
if you listen to those three statements, at no point
does money have to exchange hands.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
So they only have to build two.

Speaker 5 (01:12:31):
The moment you hit two, you have made a laser product.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Versus people reading this as commerce meaning it's on Amazon.

Speaker 5 (01:12:38):
Which is what most people think it means.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Sweet.

Speaker 5 (01:12:40):
That's how the regulation covers it to try to cover
tricks like people being oh, well, just you're a friend,
I'll make you a second one of these setups, and
I'll ship everything that I just did over to you
at your other laboratory. You have no idea how the
very specific quirk of I have duct tape sitting right
here on the setup to protect that beam from going
out that will blind me. Also, it takes so very

(01:13:03):
little laser power to actually be blind.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
But also that feels like a valuable point to this,
which is just because they've made too doesn't mean they've
made two safe ones. Like if there are little workarounds,
like when you release something under these regulations you're discussing,
I imagine you probably want to think of a more
rigorous housing than tape.

Speaker 5 (01:13:25):
Correct. That's when I mentioned the Federal Laser Project Performance
Standard aka the FLIPS. It specifies the components that your
laser should have to be a legal laser product that
could be sold into commerce. Right, They're not just you
have to be I safe levels of power, which has
defined as less than one milliwatt per squares centimeter on

(01:13:47):
the retina. It also has things like you have interlocks
so that if you pop open the housing, it turns
off or it drops a shutter.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
And these are things that people don't classically put in
the first version not.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Classically no good.

Speaker 5 (01:14:02):
Also other things like there's indicator lights, there's switches, there's
key interlocks, all the things that sound like function buttons. Yeah,
things that vanish from the design of products the moment
you catch Apple disease and decide that every single product
should be a smooth tablet of silicon that you wave

(01:14:23):
your hands at and they do magic rather than what
is my product doing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
My god slash Steve jobs intended.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
So how does this manifest into problems at cees.

Speaker 5 (01:14:35):
Well, first you have handed products, often to sales people
on the floor to go set up and talk about
and try to make.

Speaker 4 (01:14:41):
A say well, most certainly not the engineers who built it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
All laser safety offices correct.

Speaker 5 (01:14:47):
The other thing is bringing a laser onto the floor,
and this take us back to the fire marshal chat.
That constitutes one of the hazards you actually have to
let the CTA know about so they can tell the
fire marshals because that changes the occupancy of the room. Also,
they have a safety personnel they call to come evaluate setups.

(01:15:08):
So if you say you're bringing a laser to the floor,
a laser safety officer will come. Oh, you should put
an enclosure around that product you bought brought because you
don't actually have one. Now this defeats the purpose of
your trying to show your product. Now they can't see
it through the enclosure that protects people from it. That

(01:15:29):
should indicate that maybe your product.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
Is not great.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Yeah, but I want to see the product.

Speaker 5 (01:15:34):
You won't see at all.

Speaker 4 (01:15:37):
That's disturbing. And that's where that's the hand of a
big brother in a lot of ways, trying to keep
you from being blinded by a laser.

Speaker 5 (01:15:44):
Big vision.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
You're a hotel.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
Does it move fast, blind quick?

Speaker 4 (01:15:48):
Yes, that's so.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
But I just want to actually, here's a really good
thing for the listeners. What are the consequences of not
following these things. What do these products do to you
as a person in the event these regulations and they'll followed.

Speaker 5 (01:16:04):
Blinding fires?

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
And is that bad?

Speaker 6 (01:16:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
A fair question.

Speaker 4 (01:16:10):
It is a good question. I'm glad that we have
a balanced group hair.

Speaker 5 (01:16:14):
So just a quick rundown. If you go look at
your product that has a laser in it, odds on
favor you have one, it's probably a printer in your home.
If you go look on it, there will be a
little yellow sticker on the box. That's box that says
Class one laser device.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:16:30):
That means it is safe for use under any viewing conditions.
You have no access to a hazardous laser.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
You don't need eye protection or anything like that.

Speaker 5 (01:16:40):
You do not because the housing that's in there will
protect you. Mind you, most laser printers are actually Class
four lasers, which are absolutely blinding and capable of setting
fires if you took all of the housing that makes
the printer off of it. Okay, so there is a
much more powerful laser that is dangerous to you hiding
inside it it. One of the other things that happens

(01:17:04):
at CES and other shows like Photonics West, where I
will be in a couple of weeks is people try
to get around some of the consumer protection standards by
rather than selling you a finished product, they sell you
parts as original equipment manufacturers. If you go buy OEM parts,

(01:17:24):
which you are free to do because America, everyone salute.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
Is saluting. I'm saluting right. Thank you, Thank you everyone,
Thank you everyone.

Speaker 5 (01:17:34):
If you go buy a laser OEM laser product and
integrate it into your system because you thought this this
stuff is great. All it needs is a laser.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:17:47):
The moment you add a laser to it, you just
turned the thing you made into a laser product. A
finished one is subject to all of those rules like enclosures,
light housings, interlocks. You just became a laser manufacturer and
you didn't want to be and at that point supporting

(01:18:08):
entrepreneurs with that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
But also I agree with Edward's question, it doesn't feel weird.
This is like the it's like a three D printery
type scenario where there's like it seems like the three
D printers, but like the distance between reach and grasp
here is like actually a matter of life and death.
Like the idea that like I could, by doing a
few different things that more or less involve following instructions,

(01:18:31):
become a laser manufacturer, Like I don't even brush my
teeth before eleven in the morning a lot of the days,
like I shouldn't be.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
Trusted with being able to do stuff like that now.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
And that's that's actually was a very good point, which
is what feel is describing is how easy it is
to do this insane shit.

Speaker 5 (01:18:47):
Very and to bring it back to the FDA, their
control point is releasing a product into commerce, after which
the FDA doesn't really have control of it anymore because
it's now in the only other thing that a laser
manufacturer is required to do, as far as the FDA
is concerned, is maintain a log of injuries associated with

(01:19:11):
their product.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
And recall to do that with the podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:19:15):
Yeah, several listeners are to my heart were recalling bits
recalling bit's our entire systems.

Speaker 3 (01:19:24):
WE and we after close examination, we've realized that bit
number seventy six seeding about the woo problematic.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
Could cause emotion injury to listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
So film on the floor over the years. What are
the manifestations specifically of this thing? What are the things
that you have seen and heard of that you can
terrorize my good friends mister Roth and mister Anguso with.

Speaker 5 (01:19:49):
So let's go back to the laser bra Okay please,
this was actually a club item where the idea was
you could be your own laser light show. Not just
you put out the laser emitting product to go with
the music, but it will actually react to your dancing

(01:20:09):
and will change the out the brightness changed the color
they dances. Though, if it's an E because lasers make
everything better. Also, LED also can stand for laser.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
They don't sense things, they do things.

Speaker 5 (01:20:23):
They can also emit right, But.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Are you saying that they use lasers to emit light?

Speaker 5 (01:20:30):
Yes, on the fucking brock, dozens of them.

Speaker 4 (01:20:33):
We have lights.

Speaker 5 (01:20:35):
No, but they could be lasers to shine in very
visible beams across the entire world.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
Okay, I'm not the lazy set lazy Jesus.

Speaker 5 (01:20:42):
Does slip of the tongue happens constantly.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Laser safety expert here, But I think the idea of
shooting a bunch of lasers out of one's breasts where
people might be looking it's fun, it may be, but
it also might fun and flirty, a great look for
the season thirty flirty and thriving. That feels dangerous.

Speaker 5 (01:21:02):
You have a lot of very pain looks on your faces.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
At the very end, I feel no pain like the
sohon it seems whether it would be worth it.

Speaker 4 (01:21:12):
You.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
Literally risking at all risk risking.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
To look at.

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
Party?

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Could I go to?

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
It'd be like that was fine?

Speaker 4 (01:21:23):
Yeah, I go bind it. I pretty much got what
it's like desperate to Actually.

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
There's also totally been the laser butt plug that showed
up at but same thing dropping traun much.

Speaker 3 (01:21:34):
Like thefacturers actually.

Speaker 5 (01:21:39):
Effectively, but the one that was most relevant that actually
did show up at ce S, and it has shown
up dozens of times on hacker News and other interesting
maker websites. Someone who had made a laser based bong.
Now this is a problem because again you've taken a
concept of a totally workable product that already exists. Bongs.

(01:22:01):
We have known how these work for very long.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
And we have made them so that people who may
be under the influence can offer.

Speaker 5 (01:22:07):
Even offer to maybe not safely with the torch, but
you know so that certain kind of mind looks at
and goes, man, I can make that so much better
with a laser. And okay, the problem is lasers are
not necessarily hot burning enough to actually properly combust your
weed to then inhale. Incomplete combustion is a problem because okay, now,

(01:22:34):
what did I break down on my plant material too? Oh,
it's every organic molecule you possibly could break it down to,
some of which are carcinogens. You would, yeah, everything, No, so.

Speaker 3 (01:22:48):
Your reefer becomes something even more dangerous. But you don't
even really get the enjoyment.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
That I am genuinely asking, what is the consequences of
the castinogens? No dumb question. You just said the word carsonogen,
But explain please.

Speaker 5 (01:23:03):
Cancer causing agents thanks, some of which them are just
straight up toxic, not just carcinogen.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
Do you not get high at least you might.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
So.

Speaker 4 (01:23:11):
Just to be clear, though, when you break away all
this stuff, but.

Speaker 5 (01:23:14):
You're also part of the show, you are you're also
effectively wasting weed.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
You're not completely Okay, now I'm taking this very seriously,
not that I ever have it. But the specific thing
I'm saying here though, is so the laser is not
even efficient as a heating It's not.

Speaker 5 (01:23:32):
A good answer for it. It's just cool I use
the laser.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Do you not regularly burn castinogens? When you do? Like
weed that you smoke and bongb for example, you.

Speaker 5 (01:23:41):
Get often get full combustion. The goal is to get.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
Full, just to get the th Does that get the
costagens out?

Speaker 5 (01:23:50):
Don't make them in the first place.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
Okay, So the idea of using a laser in this
case creates new problems that makes weed less healthy.

Speaker 5 (01:23:57):
Again, It's time for another brand new acronym for you,
jacks Laser generated airborne contaminants, which is something we regulate under.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
Why do lasers create those?

Speaker 5 (01:24:09):
So anytime you have a laser interacting with material, they
start burning things off of it. Sorry, if it has
enough power to start burning things off it, it will
make fumes, It will do micromachining of surfaces, and you
start getting nanoscale particulates, which are very exciting, very they

(01:24:30):
sounds cool, but no, so normally you put on a
respirator to protect yourself from particulars when you're doing woodwork
and savage, which you already mentioned the laser cutters and
then burners. When you use those on your wood, rather
than just making simple smoke or sawdust, you were making
nanoscale particulars that go right through your respirator. And rather

(01:24:53):
than getting stuck in your sinuses with all your mucus there,
some may to your lungs, some make get stopp there.
Suddenly the target organ for smoke is your liver rather
than your lungs.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Christ and see this is the thing, this is I'm
so happy you put this down. It has been like
eight years of doing this, we've never actually got you
to run down where your actual expertise lies here. And
it's wonderful to do. No, I fucking love it. It's wonderful.
The show. It's been amazing. But the thing is, it's
like a classic CS style problem where it's like, ah,
have we got the solution to something, but you have

(01:25:28):
so many more problems yeah, we we may have created
some more problems, but did we create a solution? I
don't know. Do you think we did?

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
Did you come up?

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
Did we? Can you tell us? If we what do
you think? Can you buy this and then give us
an idea?

Speaker 6 (01:25:41):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:25:41):
That's the bit that I kept, ye because a lot
of it is like the especially with you know, like
the idea of a laser bomb, like this is it's
a worse way to address a problem that has been
pretty comprehensively.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
Solved, but it's so.

Speaker 4 (01:25:56):
Absolutely buy it. Yeah, that's somebody's like, well, this is
like maybe this is cool enough that we could sell it,
even if it's delivering like just of not even twenty
five percent of the experience, Like you're getting all the
carcinogens and the eggs.

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
I don't know what it feels like when I was
in high school and we were out of weed and
our plug was out of town, and so we'd scrape
our bulls to get to smoke out of some PVC pipe.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
You know, like, Okay, I was maxing out the dirt bag.

Speaker 5 (01:26:27):
I was going to say, you were in good shape
there right up until you said PVC.

Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
I mean, yeah, I'm trying I'm trying to maximize the unhealthy, horrible,
uh damaging carcinogenic And.

Speaker 4 (01:26:39):
There you go, you know, British culture.

Speaker 5 (01:26:42):
Just so to correct you though, David, it's not you
get all of the caryscinogens that were there, it's you
made some that weren't there in the first place.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
Yes, my bad problem for your solution.

Speaker 4 (01:26:53):
This is like the thing we're like, I don't I
guess this is like not a novel observation, but they
like the waves, which like a commercial consideration, just the
most basic commercial consideration, like can I sell this? Can
I make this thing and bring it to market? That
is the highest hurdle for any of these podcasts. The
technological stuff, the magic, the shit that you need like

(01:27:15):
advanced degrees to be able to do doesn't often seem
to be a problem. The bigger problem is trying to
find some way to either invest in it or to
find a way to sell it. And that's how you
That's like when these things get bad and.

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
Then the film destroying ones, the way they fail both yes,
where they just like, well, do we have a product
that people want? No? Do we have a product that works?

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
However, we do have a name we have science, and
we technically do have science. That's one thing you'll wokeness
can take away film. They do have science, get them.
And now the problem is do they understand the science?
And that's the big one. And this is the thing
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:27:53):
Rather they understand their specific incredibly narrow niche and have
never picked their head up. Who look and acknowledge there
are other humans around them?

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
Why would they do that unless they can do Some
of them are customers, Okay, consumer, Oh sorry, you were
not there to be happy, you're there to consume. And
this is CS baby, It's just a series of people
from the top of the people who actually release things,
all the way down to the people releasing the laser bump.

Speaker 5 (01:28:22):
The other thing for CS is sorry they move in fads. Well,
I said, there's something in the human spirit that says
you just got to attach lasers to things. Not according
to the people have gone to the floor. Not this year.
People were not excited to stable lasers onto stuff, but

(01:28:42):
in past years absolutely it's what they took. And that's
that first time we visited see it well together to
see us and twenty fifteen I actually did go to
the floor.

Speaker 7 (01:28:51):
Twenty eleven first time we went together year was that
first time we went to the No, I wasn't with
you nicely where we met in the Californian right, But I.

Speaker 5 (01:29:03):
Didn't get to make dj wukid you No, you left me.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
It's one of my cool friends.

Speaker 4 (01:29:07):
I wid.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
I mean a guyiled like a year ago.

Speaker 5 (01:29:10):
But the the first time we were here together and
I went to the floor. In twenty fifteen, there was
a whole bunch of post disaster Fukushima tech where people
were developing so many new apps for your phone for
integration into the radiation monitoring networks. There was no radiation
monitoring network right into the Well we're gonna have some

(01:29:33):
some detectors that you can log into. Really, would you
like to buy some detectors, by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
To add to the inevitable future for the full network
that you want, of course will exist, or a detector you.

Speaker 5 (01:29:43):
Can plug into your phone. No, your phone doesn't generate
enough voltage to actually run that detector to do it.
There was a whole lot of radiation related I am
terrified of a Fukushima in my backyard. Across the entire Pacific.
Tech that got rolled out which vanished the following year,
and there's cycles.

Speaker 4 (01:30:03):
We were talking about this this morning too, and I
think the thing that was kind of interesting about what
you said about that too was that and this again.
You know, I kept sort of having this feeling down
there you were describing as basically, you know, people wanted
this spectrometer or whatever the term is, got it?

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
Is it good?

Speaker 4 (01:30:20):
I saw Craig Magine's Chernobyl mini series and I took
copious notes during it, so I know a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:30:28):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (01:30:28):
I thought it was good actually, but if people expected
me to hate it, I had like a T shirt
on that seemed to the way.

Speaker 5 (01:30:36):
Yeah, Chernobyl day baby right here.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
Really April twenty fifth, nine eighty six. I think the
time zones work out with Russia.

Speaker 4 (01:30:41):
Two disasters the same, We're alive for the last Mets
World Series one.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
That's beautiful.

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
I want to three disasters.

Speaker 4 (01:30:45):
Collapse of multipleties anyway, But what you were saying about
this is that like all of these things were you know,
not just flawed in the ways that that you described,
but they were like successful products in so far as
they would generate a number with a decimal point in
it that you could then look at and be like, oh,
that seems high or that seems low and fine as
we but as in the mini series.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
But I think just in general, like this was the
point that you made.

Speaker 4 (01:31:08):
Is generating a number for somebody you know, by way
of an app or by way of you know, some
sort of device that you know it's chargeable via USBC
or something, is not the same thing as informing them
of anything. It's just producing a number. It like it's
an outcome.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
But that's that it was.

Speaker 5 (01:31:26):
I hope every time someone comes to I have this
new detector, is this good fill? Or is this worth
the money? I? Okay, you have to know how. You
have to ask the questions. What are you trying to detect?
Does the detector actually detect that? Do you know how
to use it? And a lot of the consumer products
in spaces like this related to environmental health and safety

(01:31:51):
emergency response no heal. Most people buying stuff I Amazon
have no idea how to fucking use it, much less
what it actually or how it works. And that's why
I get angry constantly.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
As we wrap up more things to upset, you'll go
more tomorrow, I think. So you can just buy illegal
shit on Amazon just to wrap us.

Speaker 5 (01:32:13):
Up as I as I regularly send you, it is
the largest gray or black market in America. There was
there was a really sad time. The other show I
come to Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
To go to is Defcon and COVID Central.

Speaker 5 (01:32:30):
I describe coming to CEES as a chance to see
the things I'm going to have to contend with when
cheap professors buy stuff and bring it to me. Going
to def Con I describe as a vacation to other
people's problems, because INFOSEC problems are analogous to radiation and

(01:32:51):
laser safety ones, but not actually mine to need to fix,
but the stuff I can learn. One time I was there,
I caught three senior Amazon on engineers at a bar
and I was aimed at them by a friend who said,
those are the Amazon people. Talk to them, And I
went over and at angry cocktail point, laid down, you

(01:33:14):
are the largest black market, an illegal importer of dangerous
laser products and other things in the world, specifically America.

Speaker 1 (01:33:23):
Really like yes you on our card or something.

Speaker 5 (01:33:25):
To which to their credit, thank you. To their credit,
they looked ashamed at their shoes and said to me,
I could fix this with a code push at midnight
if anyone with the very heavily implied a certain bald
owner cared professor very nasty, but worse, having shared the

(01:33:57):
story with contacts at the FDA. The FDA they haven't
quite surrendered to Amazon, but they do not have the staff,
they don't have the bandwidth, they don't have the funding
to try to deal with a problem like Amazon, and
instead are doing their best to work with Amazon, which
is something you've written about and talked about. It's just

(01:34:18):
regulatory capture.

Speaker 3 (01:34:19):
Would happen if we gave gun.

Speaker 4 (01:34:25):
I was gonna I I was gonna say.

Speaker 3 (01:34:29):
Anything that it is about to say.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
Is not reflective.

Speaker 4 (01:34:33):
It's it's the It's ed not the other d yet yet,
Edward Gaso, Genie.

Speaker 3 (01:34:37):
Some of you who cannot tell the difference between our
voices because we sound.

Speaker 4 (01:34:41):
So fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:34:43):
I'm seeing double.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
In a way, we are the same, you know, Britain, Kenya,
what's you know?

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
We are connected, but it is also wonderful and I'm
so happy. Anyway, please stop saying the thing that is
legally actionable, if you.

Speaker 3 (01:35:02):
Can legally actionable, because I'm asking, I'm actually asking a
really good What I'm asking is what would things look
like if regulatory agencies actually had the ability to enforce
and not just to like litigate, you know, like what
you know, I think one example just being, you know,

(01:35:24):
if they were able to enforce in the way that
ANYDA for a DA might when it comes to illegal
harmful goods and services proliferating in an open air black
market like this.

Speaker 5 (01:35:35):
So that was a funny question you asked me the
other other day of do I think any government agencies
are working well? And I had to take a long,
sad pause and go the problem is, I know how
they're supposed to work. I also know how they are working.

(01:35:57):
The DA and atf don't work nearly as well.

Speaker 4 (01:36:00):
We would like them too, but I feel like they're
much more robustly funded. There's nothing else than like the
Federal Trade Commission is like six guys in an office
with a week in the ceiling.

Speaker 3 (01:36:10):
Like if we gave I'm sure if we gave like
Lena Khan and her advisors, you know, like a ruger,
like they like, yeah, we could get something. Actually, the.

Speaker 5 (01:36:21):
People that we would be most excited to have work
to do this in association with the FDA, because the FDA,
they do not. They don't get guns. They review things
to see if it's safe for people to use and consume.
The intradiction point is the United States Postal Inspection Service,
which are the mail cops. Shout out, Shout out to

(01:36:43):
the mail cops and the comp staff.

Speaker 3 (01:36:45):
They are actual, Like, please do not fuck with them.
What's their convictions?

Speaker 2 (01:36:48):
Like, yeah, that's just the rest in packages.

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
Yeah, but at padded envelope.

Speaker 5 (01:36:57):
But again there's not many people have meant many of
them to do intradiction and investigation. Similarly, for Customs, which
had got stapled together to Customs and Border Patrol under
the Department of Hollowed Security when it was an independent agency,
they inspected everything. They were looking for illegally transported crew.

(01:37:18):
They were looking for illegal cloth because specific weaves and
contents are trademarked, they're looking for that. They were looking
for fake tech, so an iPhone that actually just has
a piece of cardboard in the middle of rather than chips.
Customs used to look at all of this. We got
no support time for anything other than drugs.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
So on that note, I'm afraid we have to come
to the end of this ninety plus minutes show jrothwackon
people find you.

Speaker 4 (01:37:47):
Uh defector dot com. It's the website I do a
podcast there. That's the distraction.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
I'm on Blue Sky. David j Roth is the handle there,
and that is all I have to say for that,
Miss Broughton.

Speaker 5 (01:38:00):
So you can find me on Blue Sky at at
fun Ranium. You can find me on my blog Funderanium
Labs dot com. If you would like to learn more
about me being angry about laser products, go to the
adventure and Radiation part and of the blog or reference.

Speaker 1 (01:38:15):
Ran you'll tell them about your coffee product.

Speaker 4 (01:38:18):
Yeah, go on.

Speaker 5 (01:38:19):
The other thing I do is I make a concentrated
coffee called Black Blood of the Earth. That is what
I had to make in order to drink coffee again
without adding sugar and cream to it.

Speaker 4 (01:38:29):
We're gonna talk more about this tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
Rocks. It doesn't.

Speaker 4 (01:38:32):
It's actual hearted endorsement how Phil and I met.

Speaker 2 (01:38:35):
And by the way, tomorrow's episode which I'm about to
talk cop and we'll talk about more later, he's going
to involve Phil a lot in talking about that. Mister
Anguso Junior.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
Those debating whether the doing Nelson Mandela accents.

Speaker 2 (01:38:48):
I've been thinking about it a week better don't find
out you must go to the tech Yeah, that's what
I was afraid of.

Speaker 3 (01:38:56):
Dot com. Uh uh, that's my newsletter, my podcast that
this machine kills. And I'm on Twitter and Blue Sky
at Big Black Jacobin and.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
You can catch me outside. How about that. That's why
I wrote down in my notes there. I'm at Zetron.
You have been so generous with your time. Thank you
for listening. I am so grateful and love all of you,
and will say that a few more times as we go.
We're approaching the first episode. At the end of the
first episode of the last day of CS proper, you

(01:39:32):
will have another one after this. I have been joined
by so many wonderful people. I want to thank everyone
he has been on so far. This has been an
incredible trip. Please listen to the totally canned message. After that,
I'll get one of you little pigs emailing me and
being like.

Speaker 4 (01:39:45):
Afy, you need to update it. I've done like ten
and a half flipping hours of audio on this.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
What more could you want from me? I'm online. You
can email me. I always email you back. Jesus Christ,
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:39:57):
I adore you, sir, Let's get you home.

Speaker 2 (01:39:59):
Okay, I am Venetian Hotel room. This is where I live.

Speaker 5 (01:40:03):
Let's get you a drink.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and
composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matasowski. You
can check out more of his music and audio projects
at Matasowski dot com, M A T T O S
O W s ki dot com. You can email me
at easy at Better offline dot com or visit Better
Offline dot com to find more podcast links and of course,

(01:40:33):
my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat
dot Where's youreaed dot at to visit the discord, and
go to our slash Better Offline to check out our reddit.
Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 6 (01:40:44):
Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For
more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia
dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
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Better Offline CES 2025: Day 5 - Pt. 1

Episode Transcript

Host

Ed Zitron

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